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Reading "Going Clear"

I'm almost finished with "Going Clear" and it is filled with some pretty messed up stuff. In the final section, the author talks about how in 1994 a well known spokesperson for the church was caught on video tape having sex with several men. The church was frantic to get the tape out of fear their spokesperson would be revealed as gay. No other clue is provided as to who this spokesperson was.

Of course we can guess who it could be, there are two prime suspects: Travolta or Cruise. For what it's worth, Travolta comes off as very sympathetic in the book. There is a strong implication that the church used his homosexuality to blackmail him in staying in after a time when he sort of drifted away from the church. An incident is recalled where Travolta admonished another Scientologist for calling someone a faggot. Another where he helps a church member counter the bigotry she faced once she came out as gay. Cruise on the other hand comes across as vain, needy, shallow and an all around douche bag.

by Anonymousreply 60107/11/2013

My husband was a graduate student at Berkeley in the late '70's and knew a guy who had left Scientology.

He was a tall, strapping, good-looking half Native American guy named John Breedlove. He had been in the upper echelon of Scientology, and his role was to give sexual massages to men.

He told my husband that the Scientologists were trying to kill him for leaving the cult, and that if anything happened to him, no matter what it looked like, it was Scientology getting to him.

Sure enough, he had a fatal motorcycle accident alone in the desert, somehow ruled a suicide.

"1970's Breedlove, John instigation to suicide John Breedlove was at Scientology's Flag land base in the 1970's. He told his mother he was told by Scientology to commit suicide and that Scientology could get anyone to commit suicide if they wanted. He did commit suicide after he left Scientology."

by Anonymousreply 204/16/2013

[quote]Cruise on the other hand comes across as vain, needy, shallow and an all around douche bag

You're being generous. Cruise is portrayed as benefiting from what amounts to slave labor and casually discarding women who failed the audition to be his next 'wife.' Travolta seems to be trapped, but Cruise gets catered to at every turn. I didn't think it was possible for me to think less of him.

The author bends over backwards to be fair, but its obvious that The Church of Scientology is a scam, with more in common with the Mafia than any honest faith.

by Anonymousreply 304/16/2013

R3 - I also read the book, and I thought that passage referred to david miscavige.

by Anonymousreply 404/16/2013

I haven't read the book, but various Scieno apostates have reported that Cruise did benefit from slave labor at the Gold Camp. SeaOrg members did all sorts of things for him, including customizing the mobile home/trailer he uses on sets as well as a motorcycle. His assistants and house staff are also Scienos. They all worked extraordinarily long hours to make things happen for Cruise. There was a recent description in one of the many Cruise threads about him shoving one of the help he was displeased with.

I marvel at how these people violate the law left right and center with impunity.

by Anonymousreply 504/16/2013

Stupid question ..... You can be gay and out and still be a $cieno? I thought they 'taught' that it was wrong and used it as blackmail?

by Anonymousreply 604/16/2013

[quote]I thought that passage referred to david miscavige.

Wow, I never considered that. That is a real possibility.

I suppose I could give Cruise the benefit of the doubt and say he never knew about the slave labor. But something tells me even if he does, he wont care and will justify it in his own, sick way.

by Anonymousreply 704/16/2013

I think he knows about the slave labor, r7.

by Anonymousreply 804/18/2013

R2, I know people will roll their eyes about the "trying to kill me" story, but I have encountered the same conviction among ex-Scientologists for many years. And it's not just recent. One was all the way back in the late 1970s. He had been very involved and then decided it was all just a money grab, and when he quit he said he was threatened and he believed he was in danger. He carried a gun.

Of course some of this may be the result of the psychological damage cult participation does. Paranoia fostered by the terrible games and pressure the members are subjected to. But the guy I mentioned is rather simple and to him it was just plain fact. He said he knew things about violence done to others who left before he did, and since he was moving up in the organization I figured his knowledge was first-hand. He acted guilty as well as afraid.

by Anonymousreply 904/18/2013

In "Going Clear," LRH is a total misogynist and the epitome of 2-faced. There are implications that he was an extreme closet-case, who drove his gay son to suicide.

An easy read, I enjoyed the discussion about the rise of cults in America and how those searching for meaning and purpose in their lives need to be extremely wary.

Also interesting are the authors' comments on the top-level PR firm that manipulated Americans to support both Reagan's presidential candidacy and involvement in Kuwait, and then was hired with likewise unlimited funds to popularize Scientology.

by Anonymousreply 1005/29/2013

There's a loon in another thread claiming the scienos aren't so bad. Keep bumping this.

by Anonymousreply 1205/29/2013


by Anonymousreply 1305/29/2013

L. Ron Hubbard.

by Anonymousreply 1405/29/2013


by Anonymousreply 1505/29/2013

Anyone remember the case of an ex-Scieno who found a rattlesnake placed in his mail box in CA? Maybe 20 years ago...

They don't suffer deserters.

by Anonymousreply 1705/29/2013


The rattlesnake incident involved Synanon, also a cult, which was finally put out of business.

by Anonymousreply 1805/29/2013

Thanks for the correction, r18.

by Anonymousreply 1905/29/2013

Still there have been numerous stories of investigative reporters on Scientology having their cars' tires slashed, their pets harmed or even killed, and their neighbors harassed. Read the book; you'll find out more.

by Anonymousreply 2005/29/2013

I finished Going Clear last week, and came away feeling the LRH was a very evil man, who started an evil organization.

I have to believe that Tom Cruise knows about the slave labor and chooses to rationalize it. He is getting too many perks to question things.

by Anonymousreply 2105/29/2013

This is a great book, almost too even handed in the review of this disdainful cult.

by Anonymousreply 2205/29/2013

I used to follow alt.religion.scientology way back and have continued to be facinated by the clams.

Did the author receive any threats?

by Anonymousreply 2305/29/2013

From Page 308, "Near the bottom (of the Tone Scale) is the Covertly Hostile personality. People in this state engage in casual sex, sadism--and homosexuality. Hubbard describes this as 'the most dangerous and wicked level.' Such people should be taken from the society as rapidly as possible and uniformly institutionalized.' Another way of dealing with them, he writes, is 'to dispose of them quietly and without sorrow.'"

by Anonymousreply 2405/29/2013

My guess would be Will Smith.

by Anonymousreply 2505/29/2013

If they can raid Mormon compounds, why not the Scientologist? Slavery is a crime and from what I've read, they kidnap peoples children. What the fuck?

by Anonymousreply 2605/29/2013

R23, Wright reports receiving many legal threats and being called at home and threatened. His opponents even started a blog under LOL

R26, Wright gives several answers for why child labor laws are violated and ignored, as well as why child molestation and rape is common. Scienos hire off-duty and former police and FBI for their security forces. Everyone has been taught to lie to non-Scieno authorities, so there would be no witnesses. The Scienos also have unlimited funds to hire the top PR and law firms in the USA. Can even organized crime claim that?

by Anonymousreply 2705/29/2013

They never openly talk about "clearing the planet" which is their primary goal. Clearing the planet means eliminating those that fall under a certain level of their tonal scale. L Ron is the single human who determined, in his personal designed "tonal" scale, who is to live freely and who is to be institutionalized or "disposed" of "quietly and without sorrow." Imagine that... L Ron Hubbard, sci-fi writer, accomplished conman liar, has the ultimate say exactly who is worthy of inhabiting this planet.

Hitler, God complex much?

Question, Why are you spending your money to support his devotees in the entertainment world?

by Anonymousreply 2805/29/2013

I was just going through my save for later list on Amazon and this was on it. I think I will go ahead and buy it for a juicy summer read. Thanks for bumping the thread.

by Anonymousreply 2905/29/2013

Does the book mention Jack Parsons and Marjorie Cameron?

by Anonymousreply 3005/29/2013

[quote]when he quit he said he was threatened and he believed he was in danger. He carried a gun. Of course some of this may be the result of the psychological damage cult participation does. Paranoia fostered by the terrible games and pressure the members are subjected to

Possibly. When I was a kid, my mother gave Scientology a try. She was naive and easily-led at that time, but she was just looking for a spiritual outlet.

I don't know exactly what happened, but I remember my mom quitting. We had a visit one night from a couple of people from Scientology, which resulted in her becoming very frightened. We moved shortly afterwards.

This is just what I remember from years ago, as she has not mentioned it since.

by Anonymousreply 3105/29/2013

R29, Thanks for bumping a worthwhile thread is always appreciated. There is an excerpt online and an audio version/summary. Also there are now several pages of comments and interviews from various media outlets.

by Anonymousreply 3205/29/2013

I've heard that Scientologists who live in the compounds aren't allowed to have children and there are forced abortions. Why is that? I would think that they want more members, instead of eliminating potential members. It doesn't make sense to me.

by Anonymousreply 3305/29/2013

R30, Yes both people come up (P. 46) when Wright discusses L. Ron Hubbard dabbling in Satanism and the occult. The book also goes into why Hollywood has always been a sucker for out-there religions.

by Anonymousreply 3405/29/2013

OP, more Travolta dirt please!

by Anonymousreply 3505/29/2013

R33, Those that are members of the elite Sea Organization and have signed billion year contracts are regularly forced to have abortions because they often work literally non-stop at hard, physical labor. Many signed up when they were just young teens. In addition parents who disobey minor rules are often separated and forced to divorce each other. Fundies in Florida would be shocked to know the truth. Don't forget Scienos don't get adequate medical care; that's one of the reasons there have been so many wrongful death suits.

by Anonymousreply 3605/30/2013

R35, Just read where a tape of a major star having sex with several men was stolen, as it was inside an expensive briefcase. One could assume that this might be blackmail.

by Anonymousreply 3705/30/2013

This is why I want them to kill off Peggy on Mad Men. She's a cult member, born into the cult and I can't stand her character, can't stand her, hate her cult.

by Anonymousreply 3805/30/2013

This might explain Travolta's increasingly careless behavior regarding his sex life (i.e. shoving his ass at everything with a dick). It seems part of him is begging to be officially outed once and for all, so that the Scientos will lose their main hold on him without having to fight them openly. In a way it's like passive-aggressive rebellion against an authoritarian parental figure.

by Anonymousreply 3905/30/2013

r39 stop making excuses for Revolta. He's a grown man and extremely rich. He's with them because he wants to be.

by Anonymousreply 4005/30/2013

Yep Peggy on Mad Men was born in Scientology and is still in the cult.

Some kids do escape, though. Ex-Scientology Kids. I was born. I grew up. I escaped.

Link to website below

by Anonymousreply 4105/30/2013

Groups whose primary focus is "purity", "cleansing" or any other form "cleaning" like going "clear" are pursuing the same goals as nazism and its ethnic "cleansing".

This video says it all.

by Anonymousreply 4205/30/2013

"I've heard that Scientologists who live in the compounds aren't allowed to have children and there are forced abortions."

Hubbard was convinced that his mother tried to abort him several times and that she accidentally induced labor during one of her attempts. He was also a pathological liar so take that story with a grain of salt. He DID however have a bigamous second marriage where he beat his wife several times during her two pregnancies in order to induce a miscarriage. In the book, there are several storied of Hubbard trying to get women to terminate pregnancies for a variety of reasons.

I believe he was both a conman AND insane. I can't understand how people were swayed by him, especially when he was older and his behavior was more erratic and his claims of "Clears" having superhuman powers were obviously refuted by his failing health, obesity, etc.

by Anonymousreply 4305/30/2013

I also believe that L Ron Hubbard was both a skilled conman and severely mentally ill, R43. Scientology induces a kind of mental illness in its followers too.

Getting their hooks into people is a slow steady process - Tony Ortega has a weekly series going with an ex-member right now on how that goes. People stay in because they have been slowly conditioned to believe that "what is true is what is true for you," that EVERYTHING Hubbard says is pure and unchangeable truth, and that ANYTHING said in opposition is "entheta" and must be rejected.

by Anonymousreply 4405/30/2013

Has y news reporter gone undercover to infiltrate the cult and write an article about it? I wonder why no news reporter has been able to uncover enough illegal activities to get this cult shut down.

by Anonymousreply 4505/30/2013

Fear of being sued, r45. Per L Ron Hubbard, "the purpose of the suit is to harass and discourage rather than win." Courts have described them as vexatious litigants.

Until just the last couple of years, the media wouldn't touch them after the Time magazine lawsuit in the early 90s. The protests in '08 (some still ongoing) pulled them out from under their rock and back into the public eye. David Miscavige can thank Tom Cruise for that!

by Anonymousreply 4605/30/2013

Wright used excerpts - here's a PDF of the full text of Hubbard's "affirmations" or "admissions" at Gerry Armstrong's website. The batshit begins on page 6 (first 5 pages are Armstrong's preamble.)

by Anonymousreply 4705/30/2013

[quote]I wonder why no news reporter has been able to uncover enough illegal activities to get this cult shut down.

They've uncovered much more than enough. It's the political and justice systems that are unwilling, not the media.

by Anonymousreply 4805/30/2013

$cientology is a legitimate tax-exempt religion thanks to Bill Clinton getting his hand picked IRS chief to authorize it. Clinton had promised to do this in return for his wealthy Hollywood friends like Cruise donating and campaigning heavily to get him elected.

All this and DOMA/DADT too! Thanks Bill!!!!

by Anonymousreply 4905/30/2013

R49, Wright believes Scientology got tax exemption due to the cult's vast financial resources and willingness to bankrupt the IRS with multiple frivolous lawsuits. It also engages in nonstop unprecedented harassment and threats of IRS employees and anyone else who dares to publicly speak out against it. In some ways Scientology practices make the mob look like the Boy Scouts.

by Anonymousreply 5005/30/2013

[quote]Still there have been numerous stories of investigative reporters on Scientology having their cars' tires slashed, their pets harmed or even killed, and their neighbors harassed. Read the book; you'll find out more.

In all fairness that COULD have been Jodi Arias.

by Anonymousreply 5205/30/2013

[quote]but I'm still not really getting the 'point' of Scientology, like even if it's all a fraud for $, what's the ostensible point, what's the underlying philosophy?

That if we get rid of our bad Thetans that hang around in our bodies, we'll resolve any psychological problems, gain perfect health (which, given how poor LRH's health was in the last years of his life...), and once you reach the upper levels, psychic powers.

[quote]They sign billion year contracts to work forever.....because?...there's some ultimate goal?

It's to get to the upper levels, but without having to pay for the auditing, etc. The total cost to ascend to the top of the "Bridge to Total Freedom" is about $400K. And if one has one of those billion-year-contracts and "blows" (leaves the cult) they receive a bill for all of the services in which they partook.

by Anonymousreply 5305/30/2013

[quote]In some ways Scientology practices make the mob look like the Boy Scouts.

Think about what they did to poor Paulette Cooper.

by Anonymousreply 5405/30/2013

[quote] Wright believes Scientology got tax exemption due to the cult's vast financial resources and willingness to bankrupt the IRS with multiple frivolous lawsuits.

If it is possible to bankrupt the IRS or frighten them with lawsuits, then why don't we start some kind of fund campaign to get donations to prosecute them on behalf of the American people? Look at how much money gets collected for the fucking powerball. The last one was 4 or 500 million dollars. If we collected that and used the money to represent We The People we could help ourselves get out of some of this fucked up shit.

by Anonymousreply 5505/30/2013

I'm not buying that the reason the IRS don't go after them is because of lawsuits. Years ago when Hubbard was still alive his wife (don't know her name) and two other members of the cult got jobs at the IRS. While employed there they stole a lot of information about the IRS and then obviously left their jobs.

I believe that they hold this information over the IRS and if the IRS fucks with them they have the resources to release the information into the population. The IRS is an illegal organization that was never formed by any legal act of our legislature. I think they have clear proof of how it was formed and how it operates.

by Anonymousreply 5605/30/2013

R51, Please imagine that you're at a very vulnerable point in your life. Look at all of the posters (including me) that post questions for DL's resident psychics. We all want the "magic answers" to our problems and uncertainty. Many churches grew because people sought direction in their lives and a safety net of immediate human support. Cults go one step further and seek to take advantage of basic needs.

Scienos' goal is to convince recruits that they have the tools to make them a star, improve their personal relationships, increase their earning power. Once upon a time, people joined a church or a fraternity or civic organization for lifelong business contacts and emotional support. Scienos claim that they'll help you fulfill all of your dreams while unselfishly making the entire world a far better place. They're the ultimate salesmen.

by Anonymousreply 5705/30/2013

I don't know how that stupid fucker expects our government to run without tax money? It's bad enough that none of our oil corporations or banks pay taxes...what the fuck is the matter with people. Were Republicans and Libertarians all born without brains.

by Anonymousreply 5805/30/2013

R56, If you were an employee of the IRS, would you want a stranger constantly following you, slashing your tires, harming your pets, broadcasting intimate details of your personal life and those of your kids and relatives to all of your neighbors and associates?

Yes the Scienos infiltrated many powerful government agencies, as well as the police and FBI. Don't forget retired employees are hired as high-level security forces.

by Anonymousreply 5905/30/2013

Well r58 if corporations paid taxes then I guess that would help fill quite a bit of the burden right? The population shouldn't have to bear the burden. You are ranting as if it has to be that way when it is only that fact that corporations and wealthy individuals pay no taxes that requires the burden to be on regular people.

Do some reading about the history of taxation in this country before you let your rancid bloat ooze through your pie hole.

by Anonymousreply 6005/30/2013

They also sign up for the Sea Org because they're told it's the fastest way to "clear the planet", the only way to save mankind. They consider it "the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics."

There's some big lawsuits going right now: the one in CA by a woman who is suing the Sea Org over her forced abortion will set a precedent. Scientology's appeal of the order to give her her own auditing records has already been rejected by the CA Supreme Court. There are ex-members waiting to take advantage of that and request their own files (Travolta should ask for his, even though he knows what they're holding over his head!)

There's a fraud lawsuit by an ex-member in FL over the money they bilked out of him for the unrealized "Super Power" project, and more exes awaiting the outcome of that to file their own suits. Takes them a long time to wake up, but when they do? They want their money back! And this one wants a deposition from David Miscavige, too.

Several families whose children were injured or DIED in Narconon Oklahoma - four deaths since 2009 - are suing there. The OK governor just signed a rehab reform bill that should put them out of business there, since they'll never allow the evil "psychs" to inspect them. Despite what Kirstie Alley claims, four-hour saunas with overdoses of niacin can't take away the urge to drink or get high - they're likely to give you liver damage.

The most promising line of damage is in GA, though: the insurance commissioner just raided Scientology's Narconon drug "rehab" in Atlanta over multiple cases of insurance fraud - United Healthcare and Blue Cross are involved. Their license is suspended (and may be cancelled at next week's hearing.) Exes say there may be as much as 50 million or more in insurance fraud nationwide, and there's no way the insurers won't go after that.

by Anonymousreply 6105/30/2013

I get you 59 however the IRS is the ultimate harassment organization you don't find it odd that Scientology gets a hands off policy from prosecution? If their members harass people the authorities have no legal recourse to do anything to that church or its leaders? Organizations/leaders can not be prosecuted for the actions of their members? Not trying to start anything, just asking.

by Anonymousreply 6205/30/2013

And then there's this asshole, a Miami chiropractor sued by the EEOC for forcing his employees to take Scientology courses (not the first time that's happened to a dentist or chiropractor. They prey on them through their WISE business management front group.)

by Anonymousreply 6305/30/2013

As much as I'm opposed to almost all of what the Fundies advocate, why aren't the anti-abortionists lining up to protest the numerous forced, multiple abortions of Scienos? Especially in their home state of very conservative Florida?

by Anonymousreply 6405/30/2013

They get away with a LOT of bullshit because they call themselves a church, r64. Scientology's organization and beliefs are so convoluted that a lot of people don't know anything more about it than that, and the other churches don't want to call them out (even when invited to - it's been tried.) It's such effective camouflage that the cult shills have now started using the "all religions are evil" argument to derail online discussions. Wright has done an enormous good by writing such a clear and readable bestseller.

by Anonymousreply 6505/30/2013

[quote]Several families whose children were injured or DIED in Narconon Oklahoma - four deaths since 2009 - are suing there.

I think a Narconon center in Montreal is similarly in trouble, although I don't know if either the Quebec provincial government or the Canadian parliament has done anything about it.

by Anonymousreply 6605/30/2013

Closed down, VOTN - the provincial government intervened, largely due to the efforts of one man, former employee David Edgar Love. They shipped the "patients" to the US, though.

Former employees are going to be the death of Narconon - there are two more out in the US and talking, with emails and records to back them up. And they ARE cooperating with the state investigators and the insurance companies.

Again, there is no way that Scientology, much less its dangerous "purification rundown" can take away the urge to get high. They run a complicated network of websites that claim a 70-80% success rate with zero scientific studies to back them up.

by Anonymousreply 6705/30/2013

[quote]Closed down, VOTN - the provincial government intervened, largely due to the efforts of one man, former employee David Edgar Love. They shipped the "patients" to the US, though.

Well, that's a relief. Well, not so much the shipping the patients to the US, but that the Quebecois were willing to do something.

Did Tom Cruise ever get his wish to give 9/11 first responders auditing?

by Anonymousreply 6805/30/2013

So why are US government agencies so stupid as to allow funding for Narconon? Can our neighbors in Canada start a campaign against the Scienos? How about England? Do they have stricter guidelines on what defines a cult? Kudos for Germany for their advocacy.

by Anonymousreply 6905/30/2013

According to Wright all of the 9/11 responders got free services, and the State of NY then made L. Ron Hubbard's birthday a special day of celebration. Shame on NY officials for being so gullible.

by Anonymousreply 7005/30/2013

Sadly, the NY Rescue Workers Detoxification Project is still going, but not much seems to be happening - the fundraising potential is probably tapped out, thank god. The faked Certified Chemical Dependency Counselor (CCDC) certifications that Scientology detox providers relied on have been rescinded, though - the certifying group found out that Scientologists were cheating on their tests.

Oh, and there's credit card fraud being investigated in GA too, which would overlap with fraud on the members - many of them have stories of new lines of credit being opened in their name without their permission to pay for Scientology "services."

by Anonymousreply 7105/30/2013

Maybe this is just because I'm an atheist, and really always have been, but I don't understand how people can get to the OT III material (when they first hit you with the Xenu stuff) and not conclude that it's just complete bullshit.

The book describes Paul Haggis' reaction as being something to the effect of "This is a test, and if I believe it, they'll know I'm crazy."

Are they just so indoctrinated at that point that nothing phases them? I mean, I've heard audio of LRH describing the Xenu stuff, and he sounds like a drugged up, raving lunatic.

by Anonymousreply 7205/30/2013

Has Wright's safety been under discussion?

by Anonymousreply 7305/30/2013

Good one!

flag: [ww] [ff] [troll-dar] Still there have been numerous stories of investigative reporters on Scientology having their cars' tires slashed, their pets harmed or even killed, and their neighbors harassed. Read the book; you'll find out more.

In all fairness that COULD have been Jodi Arias.

by: Anonymoustreply 52t05/30/2013 @ 12:22PM

by Anonymousreply 7405/30/2013

R45, it's gotten itself categorized as a religion. A religion has more protections from prosecution than other kinds of organizations.

No, R49, it wasn't President Clinton's fault. He had nothing to do with the IRS decision, nor did Tom Cruise (or any other Scieno) campaign for him. R50 has the correct answer. The clams spent years and years harassing the IRS and, eventually, wore them down.

by Anonymousreply 7505/30/2013

R72 In a way, yes they are so indoctrinated by that time. Their first TR (training) exercises are where they have to sit across from one another and not blink for an hour, if you do they say "fail for blinking, start over". They do this until the person passes. It educes a trance like state. The next is TR Bull Baiting where you must sit across from someone else for an hour while they say things to try to get a reaction out of you (anything goes). If you blink or react you fail and must start again. This is to teach you how to tune out things so when you go into the real world and hear anti-scientology talk you learn to ignore it. Very, very strange.

by Anonymousreply 7605/30/2013

60 Yes there is tax evasion etc but the wealthiest 23% of the nation still raise by far the largest amount of revenues for the government

by Anonymousreply 7705/30/2013

[quote][R72] In a way, yes they are so indoctrinated by that time.

I guess in its way, it's no more ridiculous than magic underwear or virgin births or the parting of the Red Sea, but Hubbard said all this stuff in living memory. But being told that at some time in the past that is an order of magnitude greater than the actual age of the universe, a guy who's basically Ming the Merciless loads up a ridiculous number of people onto spaceships that just so happen to be identical to jet planes of the present and then drops them into volcanoes that wouldn't have existed at this hypothetical period of history...

Maybe Paul of Tarsus sounded that nuts in the first century too, but you can almost hear the massive quantities of speed that Hubbard has no-doubt ingested in his voice.

by Anonymousreply 7805/30/2013


Don't lump me in with that fucking psycho.

by Anonymousreply 7905/30/2013

I read the South Park boys are going to be working on The Book of Scientology.

by Anonymousreply 8005/30/2013

OP, does the book talk about other scientologist celebs, like John's ex "girlfriend" Kirstie Alley?

by Anonymousreply 8105/30/2013

It's all about behavior modification. L Ron Hubbard came up with this system based on Chinese interrogation techniques.

He had a yacht; in which he circled around the globe with a group of disciples who allowed him to derogate them.

It was after the yacht that people started to being interred in labor camps. These camps are often close to Scientology Centers, like the building in LA that they use as a prison.

This is all according to the book.

by Anonymousreply 8205/30/2013

[quote]$cientology is a legitimate tax-exempt religion thanks to Bill Clinton getting his hand picked IRS chief to authorize it. Clinton had promised to do this in return for his wealthy Hollywood friends like Cruise donating and campaigning heavily to get him elected.

That's what I'd thought for a long time, however I've read further on this since and came to understand it had already been arranged by the Bush Sr. administration and the effort simply continued unimpeded during the months after Clinton took office.

by Anonymousreply 8305/30/2013

John Travolta defended a gay waiter who was serving a group of Scientologists. He told them that homophobic remarks (faggot) are not allowed at his house.

Is he a hero then? That seems like the bare minimum to me.

by Anonymousreply 8405/30/2013

Check out the link at r47 if you want a look into Hubbard's thinking. Hubbard wrote a text of affirmations in order to, it appears, begin programing himself out of some undesired behaviors to then implant other more desirable behaviors in their place. From reading a bit of it I can see how if he already was not insane before he wrote it, he must have been well on his way after he finished.

by Anonymousreply 8505/30/2013

Why hasn't anything happened to Mimi Rogers or Paul Haggis when they left Scientology? Haggis has been very vocal about why he left. I thought he was going to write a book.

by Anonymousreply 8605/30/2013

R81, Kirstie Alley is barely mentioned. She claims that her religion saved her life and got her off coke. She isn't portrayed in the book as very smart or influential; just a minor figurehead with a diminishing name.

R84, Since Travolta is treated very sympathetically in the book, I wonder if there was some sort of private agreement that Wright could discuss his homosexual inclinations.

R86, All of Haggis' formerly close Scieno friends have totally dropped him.

Please understand that many Scienos are 2nd generation; this is all that they know. Others have been pressured by extreme group think; they do and believe things that they would never tolerate individually.

Not all religions take the Bible literally. Many see it as an accurate interpretation for the time that it was written, or just as an allegory or a series of myths for justifying the need to follow basic laws. There have been lifelong discussions on the Bible for a very valid series of reasons.

by Anonymousreply 8705/31/2013

[quote]Kirstie Alley is barely mentioned. She claims that her religion saved her life and got her off coke. She isn't portrayed in the book as very smart or influential; just a minor figurehead with a diminishing name.

All you have to do is watch or read an interview with her to see that she isn't very smart. And not surprised she is barely mentioned since she hasn't been relevant since the 90's.

by Anonymousreply 8805/31/2013

R73, Wright has been harassed and discusses it online. Like Paul Haggis, he's achieved so much public praise for his prior works that he'd be a harder target to defame. It would be so easy for both to hold a public press conference to retaliate.

Scienos aren't allowed to read negative info on their cult online or elsewhere. They must quickly report if they've even heard anything bad from anyone else. That alone distinguishes them from other "religions." Don't forget Scienos are forced to cut off contact with others, even if they're family members. If there's an interest, I'll start a thread on the techniques of group think manipulation and brain washing. Or re-read Animal Farm and see the original The Manchurian Candidate.

by Anonymousreply 8905/31/2013

R89 Group manipulation and brainwashing please

by Anonymousreply 9005/31/2013

I realize that just because two very famous actors who are closeted are Scientologists, one cannot make an assumption that the cult caters to self loathing gays who hope that they might either be "converted" or somehow be validated by becoming a member. But I have a pretty weird story which has really been bugging me ever since I learned of the fate of an old friend. Approximately 25 years ago when I had relocated to ATL, I had virtually no friends in the city. I met a very charming and academically impressive guy(I'm female) at a young professionals event at the High Museum. He was 5 years younger than I, but we had quite a few things in common and I felt like he could be a good friend to hang with and learn something about ATL socially. My first instinct the night I met him was that he was gay, but he certainly appeared to be attempting to "court" me and I was not the type to broach the subject. We went out about 6 times and he began to speak of a future with me and he all but implied that he thought he was in love. I mean no offense when I say that with each and every date, I was more convinced that he was gay, but it had become obvious that for whatever reason, he was in denial.OK speed this up. After 3 months I just couldn't continue the weird relationship, so I broke things off as kindly as I could. Nothing was ever said about my serious doubts about his sexuality. 3 months ago, on a boring rainy Sunday I started Googling names from my past. People I had not seen or heard from since the mid 80s. When I googled him, lo and behold!!! He is now a fairly prominent employee in the CO$ in Clearwater, FL. It appeared that he was still unmarried. Does anyone think that a man with an MBA from Wharton and a BS from Stanford would be gullible enough, or self loathing enough to grasp at the cult because of his desire to be seen and accepted as straight? I mean, let's face it: neither Tammy or JT are known as great thinkers. I feel terrible for him, even though he may be happy and I may be projecting feelings on him which have been resolved, ie he may be in a healthy gay relationship now. It makes me very sad to see someone with so much potential squander it on what amounts to being a shill for a faith healer's revival tent for his whole life.

by Anonymousreply 9105/31/2013

R91, I have met many men, usually from rigid Catholic or Mormon backgrounds, who were trying to convince themselves that they were straight. They would find a stereotypical very nice girl, whose company they truly enjoyed as friends. Marriage often followed. Because of their conservative religious backgrounds, premarital sex was not an option. Like those who are straight and have limited physical experience in advance, things did not always work out that well. Some succeeded because they didn't have a high need for affection, and focused on work.

Like those who devote their lives to a charity or cause, your friend might be sublimating his feelings. There even might be covert physical affection with Scieno men who often live in very close proximity for years. Just as Wright claims that L. Ron Hubbard had some form of sex not just with Heinlein's wife but also with Heinlein, yet does not identify as gay, perhaps homosexual relations are overlooked in Scieno's upper management as a way of maintaining passive members.

by Anonymousreply 9205/31/2013

[quote]The next is TR Bull Baiting where you must sit across from someone else for an hour while they say things to try to get a reaction out of you (anything goes). If you blink or react you fail and must start again. This is to teach you how to tune out things so when you go into the real world and hear anti-scientology talk you learn to ignore it. Very, very strange.

Jenna Elfman must have fucked the instructor to get a passing grade.

by Anonymousreply 9305/31/2013

Hah! And it's not just an hour - they go until the "preclear" doesn't react at all, however long that takes, using whatever insults they can think up, as filthy as they like, racist, sexist, homophobic...exes report that men usually gang up on women. And the "preclear" PAYS for this abuse, by the hour.

The Elfmans are deep down into this shit. In a nutshell, Scientology is the exorcism of clinging space aliens. Anybody above OT3 is paying to have them exorcised (at 900./hour!), anybody below is prepping for it (and hasn't been told about them yet.) IMO, actively practiced Scientology induces psychosis - sometimes it's mild, sometimes it's not.

The questions in the "whole track security check" make it pretty clear where she got that "have you raped a baby" shit. (Wikileaks PDF below)

by Anonymousreply 9405/31/2013

I haven't read Going Clear yet. One book that I have read that details how fucked up Scienotlogy and SeaOrg are is My Billion Year Contract by Chris and Nancy Many.

by Anonymousreply 9505/31/2013

There's a new blog about Scientology celebrities with a lot of dirt on who's in and who's recruiting who.

by Anonymousreply 9605/31/2013

What R74 said about Nancy Many's book, and also Jenna Miscavige Hill's "Beyond Belief: My Secret Life Inside Scientology". She's David Miscavige's niece and one of the founders of the Ex-Scientology Kids website.

I really liked Marc Headley's "Blown for Good" with his dramatic escape story, and Jefferson Hawkins' "Counterfeit Dreams" - he's the guy who produced the Dianetics volcano commercials in the 90s, it's his personal story of how he got in and out again.

I have "A Queer and Pleasant Danger" by Kate Bornstein and "The Church of Fear: Inside The Weird World of Scientology" by BBC reporter John Sweeney on my to-read list.

by Anonymousreply 9705/31/2013

I read Counterfeit Dreams online, and highly recommend it. It portrays a brilliant, creative mind sucked into a vortex of insanity, surrounded by non-stop physical and mental and emotional abuse.

by Anonymousreply 9805/31/2013

Has anyone been following "Anonymous" and their online hacking campaign to publicly discredit Scientology? I'd appreciate a summary.

by Anonymousreply 9905/31/2013

Is the Lisa McPherson death in the book? Horrible story. She was brought to a psychotic state by this crap and was not allowed to seek real help.

by Anonymousreply 10005/31/2013

[quote]Is the Lisa McPherson death in the book? Horrible story. She was brought to a psychotic state by this crap and was not allowed to seek real help.

Yes. Although "Inside Scientology" goes into it with more detail.

I was also surprised by how little their campaign against Paulette Cooper was mentioned.

by Anonymousreply 10105/31/2013

Thanks for the link, R96. Holy Moly! Did anyone else read the Jenna Elfman entry? I was joking at R93, making a reference to that incident where she became batshit outraged on an L.A. street when someone mentioned Xenu. If true, she's beyond, beyond insane. Dear god. It's downright disturbing. This is only part of it.

[quote]Jenna would not sign autographs for an auction to raise money for children with HIV in 1999. Her reasoning was “AIDS is a state of mind, not a disease.” She will not support any charity fundraisers for HIV/AIDS. Jenna now denies saying that but only after she paid off Radar magazine and the journalist responsible to delete the article from their website. Internal memos show that OSA demanded she stop making public statements critical of HIV/AIDS or any other medical issue and keep her mouth shut or they would take away her Bridge for creating so much bad PR. She complained to Miscavige about this and he had a few people from CCI OSA shipped off to PAC RPF.

[quote]This homophobia is despite the damning data in her pc folders and KRs written against her by staff CCI staff that claim she’s closeted lesbian (her pc folders have lots of lesbian encounters and fantasies and according to a bunch of KRs we’ve seen, she’s alleged to have had inappropriate contact with female staff). We can only assume her homophobia is rooted in self-hatred and also jealousy of a very prominent and wealthy lesbian couple who are public at CCI – Scientology considers gays & lesbians to be hopelessly degraded, but they’re more than willing to take their money!

by Anonymousreply 10205/31/2013

The entry about Bella Cruise is just plain funny:

[quote]Truth is Nicole wasn’t liking how her daughter was evolving – she’s got some mouth on her. Bella swears like a sailor, burps & farts in front of people without excusing herself, picks her nose while she sits in the Rose Garden Cafe texting her idiot friends, makes fun of wogs (people who aren’t Scilons), and more – basically she acts like a typical fucking Sea Org member, and we should know! She’s pretty gross & we go out of our way to not have to talk to her because she smells bad & picks her nose. Gross!

by Anonymousreply 10305/31/2013

Yes, R78. What would you like to know? The Wikipedia Project Chanology page isn't current, but it is accurate.

by Anonymousreply 10405/31/2013

no one who is high up in scieno believes in aliens and all of that garbage. they are CEOs, bilking their marks like old-time carnies with their shell games. it's a corporation and it uses willing slaves. the weak-minded are the marks.

i give a pass to those born in the cult. it is not their fault.

by Anonymousreply 10505/31/2013

[quote]Has y news reporter gone undercover to infiltrate the cult and write an article about it? I wonder why no news reporter has been able to uncover enough illegal activities to get this cult shut down.

The blog linked at R96 is purportedly run by members of Anonymous who claim to have infiltrated the Celebrity Centre in L.A. The blog is quite new (started early this month) and has A LOT of gossip about the shenanigans that go on behind the scenes there. The authors claim that the are gathering documents to present to the FBI and the IRS. Apparently, the Sea Org people in L.A. have fewer restrictions placed on their activity, including internet access.

It will be interesting to see what will become of it because some of the stuff on it is highly inflammatory. It's a bit of a slog to read through because the use so many acronyms, but it's fascinating.

by Anonymousreply 10605/31/2013

R96, Thanks for the link. Worth my $18 just for the entire read. More evidence that Scientology is more homophobic than the Catholic Church and Mormonism combined? Read the link about Michelle Stafford. (Scienos also supported CA's anti-marriage equality)

by Anonymousreply 10705/31/2013

Scienos are getting their hooks into Clint Eastwoods' family. Is he really going to direct a remake of A Star Is Born With Tom Cruise? Be very careful, Clint (in 3, 2, 1) And while you're at it, tell Zachary Quinto to run away fast.

by Anonymousreply 10805/31/2013

Could Clint be getting Alzheimers? Why in gods name would he involve himself with these assholes?

by Anonymousreply 10905/31/2013

R109, Scienos have confiscated his kids. Kyle Eastwood's jazz music manager is a long-time Scieno. His daughter's dating a former bisexual druggie and hardcore Scieno. His wife was targeted too; luckily she made it to legit rehab. Clint risks permanent disconnection with his kids if he doesn't follow suit.

by Anonymousreply 11005/31/2013

Their tried to sink their claws into the Eccelstones, too.

by Anonymousreply 11105/31/2013

The acronyms are mostly related to places in the cult - will a little tl;dr help?

CCI - Celebrity Centre International (on Franklin Ave, LA), staffed by Sea Org and some public (non Sea Org) Scientologists to serve publics with even a minor degree of talent or notoriety. Contains a restaurant and that garden cafe where Bella Cruise was reported to sit and pick her nose. Used to be open to the public for Sunday brunch, but they might have stopped that.

HGB - Hollywood Guaranty building (Hollywood Blvd) with a Scientology 'mission' on the ground floor - upper floors are various Sea Org offices.

(The two-story building across Ivar Ave. with the streamline detailing? Used to hold second floor offices for David Miscavige, but he's too paranoid to use them. The star-and-laurels crest on its corner is the Sea Org logo.)

OSA - Office of Special Affairs, ostensibly in charge of legal affairs, PR and "social betterment", but functionally, the KGB of Scientology. Run by Sea Org but occasionally recruits public members for various dirty tricks (including internet commenting.)

IAS - International Organization of Scientologists, a 'club' for public members. Everyone is pressured to join, and most do because it gets them a 'discount' on services.

KR - "Knowledge report", what one Scientologist files to rat out another or cover their ass. Always ends with "This is true." I can link one here if anyone's curious.

Reg - a registrar, who sells people auditing and other services (and gets 10-15% as commission.)

The organization is deliberately convoluted to make it difficult to investigate, IMO.

I think this blogger is not "original" Anonymous but rather a disillusioned public Scientologist who isn't able to leave for whatever reason (there's others online, mostly stuck for fear of disconnection from their families.) They have the cult-speak down pat, they know where the various pieces of the organization are, and some of what they say has been verified by exes. They're calling themselves Anonymous because they know it'll make Miscavige blow a gasket. And since there's nothing to join, no leaders and no organization, and they're speaking against the cult? I'd call that Anonymous.

by Anonymousreply 11205/31/2013

Just read some articles on that scientologycelebrity website. Wow.

by Anonymousreply 11305/31/2013

I live in Nashville, where there's a beautiful Celebrity Center. I had read that it's one of the nicest ones in the country, so, out of curiosity, I visited a few years ago. I was also at a particularly bad time in my life, and was looking for something, anything, to help give me direction. The building is lovely, and the people are nice, but, my God, did they give me the hustle. Before I knew what was happening, I was taking this personality test, then signed up for this course, etc. They would not let me go, and I can be a pretty stubborn person. I finally got the nerve to tell them no, to stop selling me, and they kept going. I finally just walked away while they were trying to sell me yet another course. They kept calling me and sending me letters, until I finally told them that if I got one more letter or call from them, that I would file a harassment suit against them, and I was recording my conversation with them. That finally got them to stop. BTW. I told them I was gay at the very beginning and asked if that was a problem. They said that it wasn't as long as it didn't interfere with me living to my potential. I assume that what they meant was that if it limited the money I could make, it would be a problem; if it didn't, then it wouldn't be. That's why I think they keep people like Cruise and Travolta in the closet; being gay would limit their income.

by Anonymousreply 11405/31/2013

Thanks much, R112. That's very helpful.

by Anonymousreply 11505/31/2013

BWAH! "Limit your potential"? It's not YOUR potential they're concerned about. You're lucky you got rid of them that quickly, and you might hear from them again as their cashflow gets thinner.

Above everything else, and especially in an org as empty as Nashville is, they are DESPERATE to make their stats and avoid punishment. They'd have gotten as much out of you as they could to make you "clear", then passed you up to the advanced org to convince you that you were broke because you're gay, and that thousands of hours of pricey auditing would fix it.

Like they did to poor Keith Relkin, may he rest in peace:

by Anonymousreply 11605/31/2013

You're welcome, r115. Read fast, that blog may be going down soon...

I left out a very important acronym:

RPF - Rehabilitation Project Force, the gulag for Sea Org who mess up, snark up or otherwise land on the wrong side of David Miscavige. They can deny it all they want, but there are hundreds of ex Sea Org who have been there, done that and told about it.

by Anonymousreply 11705/31/2013

R112, Can you copy excerpts of the original Anonymous? I googled and all I got was vids. Wish I knew how to provide them moral support. They vow to bring Scientology down, and are savvy and smart enough not to be traceable.

by Anonymousreply 11805/31/2013

Really fascinated by all the ex-Scientologists who seem to be on the Datalounge. Are you "native" DLers who are opening up to share your experiences, or did you come here from Google searches?

by Anonymousreply 11905/31/2013

R119, Never a Scieno whatsoever and have always been extremely anti-cult, even before I studied it in cultural anthropology at UCLA. Was once paid to do anti-Scieno research for a law firm supporting a mag that got sued for it's expose.

Here's a juicy excerpt to motivate everyone to keep reading this anonymous blog.

"Eric is also good at convincing gay & lesbian performers that they can “cure” themselves of homosexuality and get back to being straight & normal. If you watch him in action, you’d be shocked how easy it can be to fool someone to believe in that shit and give it a shot.

Alexis (his wife) is a chaplain and like any chaplain is supposed to help Scientologists in bad situations, like someone stuck with an abusive domestic partner or who got royally screwed over by another Scientologist and anything else that could be a major flap for the church. According to the chaplain’s record at CCI, the top reason anyone sees the chaplain is because of problems with domestic partners including abusive situations, divorce and child custody issues, sex issues between partners, etc.

Problem is that in Scientology, if you got problems, then you pulled it in – that means if a husband is beating the shit out of his wife, the wife did something that provoked the husband into beating her. Or if someone is raped, then the victim did something that landed them in a situation where they got raped. Got it so far? It’s the Scilon version of karma. So Scientology doesn't take the side of the victim, ever. If a husband beats his wife and his wife reports it to the chaplain, the husband might get in trouble but the wife will get in even more trouble since she pulled it in – “getting in trouble” means doing amends, which means paying a huge chunk of cash to the IAS if you want to keep going up the Bridge."

by Anonymousreply 12105/31/2013

the cult is fucking evil and should be taxed by the feds.

by Anonymousreply 12205/31/2013

[quote]So Scientology doesn't take the side of the victim, ever. If a husband beats his wife and his wife reports it to the chaplain, the husband might get in trouble but the wife will get in even more trouble since she pulled it in

This sounds similar to that Law of Attraction bullshit, where the victim always gets the blame for anything bad that happens to them.

That way of thinking is so fucked up and pisses me off.

by Anonymousreply 12305/31/2013

R123, If you read Going Clear you'll see that physical violence as well as emotional and mental abuse is the norm at Scientology, especially among the highest levels. L. Ron Hubbard used to throw executives off of his ship, sometimes with their arms and feet bound.

Reports are that many Scienos die of cancer. I wonder why . . .

by Anonymousreply 12405/31/2013

R119, "Michelle Stafford – Scientologist closet lesbian under homophobic duress

Michelle Stafford – Scientologist soap opera star on The Young & The Restless – in the closet & damn proud of it!

2 of our Anonymous Sea Org crew members witnessed soap opera star Michelle Stafford going Type 3 (psychotic break) after storming out of a session – huffing & puffing & blowing up at everyone in the hall before being quickly muzzled & dragged back in the room by 5 staffers with security bouncing all over the place. They asked one of the guards what happened and he said Stafford “Like totally freaked on a sec check! Fucking lesbian bitch almost bit my hand off!” Mr. Shane Woodruff VP CCI from the Presidents Office witnessed the incident & yelled at the staffers for “being so fucking incompetent” & “letting Stafford off her leash”. Shane screamed that at them to get these “queer weirdos” under control & stop distracting him from his “important work with the Black Muslims”. Michelle Stafford has a long history of getting in trouble for relapsing into lesbian behaviors & secretly sleeping with women & trying to hide it from her Scientology handlers. You see His Supreme Unholiness Mr. David Miscavige has to personally approve each fucking lunatic asshole who aspires to do New OT VIII & to get his approval you have to do mafia-style favors for him or if he just fucking hates you, then you don’t get in. Miscavige the Savage hates Stafford even more because she refuses to date any men & lately she refuses to stop her discrete lesbian affairs. But Michelle Stafford hates herself too much to blow the homophobic cult – we hope she stops drinking the Kool Aid & decides to live her life in public instead of hiding in the closet like a self-hating closeted weirdo!"

by Anonymousreply 12505/31/2013

And people don't believe in Satan.....?

by Anonymousreply 12605/31/2013

There's others posting on the thread, r119, but I'm a longtime DL lurker (I remember cak and graxy!) I've been following the cult since 1995 and watched the rage boil up online in 2008. I will never forget walking up over the crest of a hill and finding 200+ people on the sidewalk across the street from the local org! Or the long line of armored riot police - the cult had convinced them we were a threat. (The oldtimers took that on and started informing the PD, established relationships, and got rid of them by the fourth month.)

R118, it's hard to find on purpose. Live protests have largely subsided in the US, but people are still working, especially alongside old guard protestors on specific issues. It won't happen tomorrow, but we DO have traction and we ARE weakening them. They're losing members hand over fist, they can't recruit new suckers, and they're the laughingstock of the Internet. The media was scared to death of them just five years ago, and today? Lawrence Wright has a bestseller, and local TV does reports like this.

You ARE supporting by staying informed and ****informing as many others as you can, especially teenagers and young people.**** Know where their facilities are in your community. Don't spend your money on their movies and music, and tell your friends why. Tell the media you want to see and hear more about the damage they do. Watch out for Narconon if you're in CO, FL, MI, CA, HI, LA, GA, OK. And share your copy of Lawrence Wright's book!

by Anonymousreply 12705/31/2013

R127, It bothers me that I see constant ads on Craigslist Las Vegas in the "General Section," offering free counselling for those needing help with their personal relationships or who are having financial issues. Flagging ads on CL is useless. There was a very controversial protest and media event when they opened in Vegas, however, and then they've kept a lower profile.

I remember way back when seeing Sea Org "Officers," wearing pseudo military/naval uniforms, marching on the street in Hollywood. If you asked anyone a question, only the leader could answer. Freak-out.

by Anonymousreply 12805/31/2013

You should check out videos from this woman - she was in for three decades and she now speaks out about all the bad stuff that happens:

by Anonymousreply 12905/31/2013

That Scientology Celebrity blog is a great read. It was interesting reading the entry about that douche Tyler Shields trying to recruit celebs. As for Michelle Stafford, I remember reading gossip about her trying to recruit other soap stars. Didn't she manage to get Christian LeBlanc interested?

by Anonymousreply 13005/31/2013

R128, it's only useless because they keep putting them back up after Craigslist takes them down. Nobody comes into the org, so they've got to have SOME stat to report, right? Keep flagging, and know you're not the only one doing it. (Protip - you can find them all at once by searching for the phone number, or at least you can in other cities. Heh.)

by Anonymousreply 13105/31/2013

An evening with Lawrence Wright:

by Anonymousreply 13206/01/2013

Wow, that blog is something else.

I'm still getting lost in the acronyms, but there you go.

by Anonymousreply 13306/01/2013

Other sources are sure the search for the blogger is tightening, and just in time to fuck up a big annual commemmorative event too. Muahahah!

If you're stuck on a piece of cult-speak you can post it here and I'll translate. (Ugh, it's scary how much of their shit I have memorized.) Or try the handy-dandy glossary here:

by Anonymousreply 13406/01/2013

R134, Can you invite anyone from "Anonymous" to post here to give us constant updates or links? IMHO Scientology blackmailing gays and engaging in child slavery is far, far worse than what any other cult or religion is practicing. I'll bet that pedos and child rapists are the norm as well, especially among those with money or power.

by Anonymousreply 13506/01/2013

I'm just reading the Amanda Bynes entry. Perez Hilton is a clam, too? Or is he just trying to get money from commissions? He was pissed that they couldn't get her into CCI.

What's HCO, BTW? The entry references it.

by Anonymousreply 13606/01/2013

[quote]We can only assume her homophobia is rooted in self-hatred and also jealousy of a very prominent and wealthy lesbian couple who are public at CCI – Scientology considers gays & lesbians to be hopelessly degraded, but they’re more than willing to take their money!

This is in the Jenna Elfman entry. Who could this lesbian couple be?

by Anonymousreply 13706/01/2013

[quote] Perez Hilton is a clam, too? Or is he just trying to get money from commissions?

The way I read it was that he takes money for looking away. I wonder if he's the only gossip blogger that gets $

by Anonymousreply 13806/01/2013

[quote] This is in the Jenna Elfman entry. Who could this lesbian couple be?

Oprah and Gail?

by Anonymousreply 13906/01/2013

Oh, duh! Of course, R139. Explains a lot.

It sounds like they're trying to horn in on the Ecclestone billions, but taking nude pictures of the heiress is probably not the way to go about it.

I noticed that one of the artists in the London fundraising schemes is Gay Ribisi. Interestingly, Giovani Ribisi married model Agnes Deyn, model and British "it" girl of the moment in London society. I wonder if he was ordered to.

by Anonymousreply 14006/01/2013

HCO - Hubbard Communications Office, the division that put out his torrent of official communications when he was alive. Since nothing he set up can ever be changed HCO lingers on, faithfully digging the exact turd that applies out of his mountain of shit. And there's one of them in every org, because he said so!

r135, if this thread stays open and I see something I can post, I will. BUT much of what's going on isn't public until it produces results. The cult hasn't been able to shut this down precisely because there's no organization, nobody who knows everything. People only hear what they need to know to work on whatever they're involved in, and it's bad manners to ask outside that. This is for everyone's protection - I personally know people who have been arrested, had their trash gone through, their homes raided and/or dealt with public felony accusations to try to shut them down.

The best place to keep up with the fallout is at Tony Ortega's excellent blog at - he's got a ton of sources and has become the centralized newsstand across all fronts (A couple of so-called 'independent' Scientologists are wreaking effective havoc too.) He posts at least every day, sometimes more often.

Yes and yes to the rape and molestation, and if you're high enough up or bringing in enough money they cover it up. Google Jan Eastgate in Australia if you'd like a more recent example not listed here:

by Anonymousreply 14106/01/2013

The Ribisis are lifers - there's no way the new Mrs. hasn't been hauled into CC for a little time in the sauna and on the cans.

There's a whole gang of young rich cult kids, Mastersons et al, who hang out together in LA and stay low-key about their cult beliefs. I wish the blogger would dump some dirt on that crowd!

by Anonymousreply 14206/01/2013

The one thing that rings a little hollow to me is the thing about there not being any gay stuff about Tom Cruise. Perhaps it's just because we've been hearing about it for so long, but the stories are often so consistent, it's hard to completely write them off as nothing more than gossip.

by Anonymousreply 14306/01/2013

R141, As much as I wish the whole world cared about the financial and physical exploitation of the vulnerable, and the degradation of anyone for their sexual orientation, I do know that child rape and molestation is more of a "hot button issue." Everyday I'm asked to sign a petition online and join thousands demanding action to protect innocent wolves (the 4-legged kind,) victims who've lost their health insurance, etc. How about starting a public petition demanding to investigate Scientology for crimes against kids? May not result in legal action but it should increase awareness.

by Anonymousreply 14406/01/2013

R142 I think that blogger will probably spill dirt on the Mastersons later on. The Mastersons aren't too low key about their beliefs. Danny did reel in Laura Prepon into Scientology. Years ago around 2004-2006, Bravo had that Celebrity Poker Showdown series in which the participants played for charities. Chris Masterson played for Citizens Commission on Human Rights which is anti-psychiatry group backed by the Scienos. I remember watching that episode and laughing at Chris trying to make it seem like CCHR was a great organization.

by Anonymousreply 14506/01/2013

R145, What's the truth about why Oprah was always promoting John Travolta, Kirstie Allie, an Tom Cruise?

by Anonymousreply 14606/01/2013

R146, I'm R145, I don't have dirt on Oprah promoting Scienos like John, Kirstie, and Tom. Celebrity Scienos have interested me for years, so I try to read up on Scienotology and what the celebrity members are up to. I have wondered about Oprah over the years. I remember back in the late 90s watching her show and John Travolta praised Scientology and said that the church kept him from doing drugs.

Does anyone know if John was the one who reeled in Kirstie? I think Oprah's constant promotion of Kirstie Alley years ago had to deal with weight loss issues. I'm at the point where I can't stand John or Tom. But with Kirstie, there is something about her that I still like. She did flip out on some Scieno documentary when someone said COS was a cult. I can't remember the documentary title, but Rock Center aired clips of it last year.

by Anonymousreply 14706/01/2013

R126, Does Satan look like this?

by Anonymousreply 14806/02/2013

They're baaaa-aaack...

by Anonymousreply 14906/02/2013

I wonder if Tammy Cruise, Wilma Smith and Jane Travolta have any idea that their involvement in the Cult of $cientology is slowly ruining their acting careers. The more people are learning about $cientology, the more we are staying away from their films.

I have not seen a Travolta or Cruise movie in decades. I did not know about Smith's involvement until several years ago. I then began to boycott him and his wife. That is one scary religion. It terrifies me. All of their film careers are sputtering, or beginning to. They need to wake up.

by Anonymousreply 15006/02/2013

Hey, that's not Satan, that's AnonOrange, king of joking and degrading, who bent over backwards to be the most eyecatching protestor on the street. He had tactical differences of opinion with some anons, but he took a beating from cult security at Gold Base AND delivered some serious enturbulation at Riverside County board of supervisors meetings by calling them out for being in the cult's pocket. The cult HATES him. Excellent photo choice!

by Anonymousreply 15106/02/2013

R150, If you're a Scieno you've been trained to think that everything bad that happens is either the bad non-Scienos around you that you haven't disconnected from's fault, or the fault of remnant's of evil beings inside of you that you haven't yet paid enough $$$ to conquer. Doesn't that sound a little like a mentally ill person talking?

by Anonymousreply 15206/02/2013

r152 nails it, and they pay for the "ethics" process that identifies it. The problem person is PTS, a "potential trouble source" (e.g. "Nicole Kidman was PTS to Tom Cruise.") It can even be another Scientologist, who then gets hauled into ethics and, if they won't knuckle under, gets declared SP, a "suppressive person", receives a "goldenrod" SP declare (on yellow paper), and suddenly finds him/herself free of the cult (and disconnected from other Scientologists.)

Enturbulation - agitation, upset, disturbance. One of Hubbard's made-up words. And AGP and AnonOrange DELIVERED it.

BTW, cult thought it had quite the coup when OSA got to an LA-area protestor's medical records and exposed his HIV+ status. Like anon cared? Fuckers.

by Anonymousreply 15306/02/2013

I think Tom Cruise at the least knows that his involvement with Scientology has driven people away from his movies. Many People will never forget the infamous Today Show interview back in 2005. I have noticed some people getting turned off by the B and C list Scienos who mostly do TV.

by Anonymousreply 15406/02/2013

[quote] The one thing that rings a little hollow to me is the thing about there not being any gay stuff about Tom Cruise. Perhaps it's just because we've been hearing about it for so long, but the stories are often so consistent, it's hard to completely write them off as nothing more than gossip.

Since the whole couch-jumping-psychotic-thing, I've had the sense that he's an asexual, brainwashed- turd.

Have we heard any recent gossip?

by Anonymousreply 15506/02/2013

I have also wondered about how Mimi Rogers was able to leave COS and if she has faced harassment. Her father was a higher up in COS.

by Anonymousreply 15606/02/2013

Cruise on Scientology:

[quote]"Some people, well, if they don't like Scientology, well, then, fuck you. Really. Fuck you. Period."

He'll be there until the last dog dies, IMO.

by Anonymousreply 15706/02/2013

DL, Did any of you complain about Christian re-education camps for gay kids and teens, because of the fundies out-dated attitudes?

by Anonymousreply 15806/02/2013

Why, no. None of us ever, ever did, r158.

by Anonymousreply 15906/02/2013

R159, I was one of the ones who complained the loudest at the Christian re-education camps, you bitch. If you read about Scieno's attitude towards gays, straight from L. Ron Hubbard, you'll really "roll your eyes" at his lunacy.

Of course Scienos have also made a big stink in FL and are adamantly against marriage equality. They thoroughly lied to one of their biggest catches, Academy Award winning screenwriter/director Paul Haggis, when he decided to blow, after he was smart enough to find out that they gave money along with the Mormons in CA.

by Anonymousreply 16006/02/2013

Simmer down now r160. I think she was being sarcastic

by Anonymousreply 16106/02/2013

R161, Thanks for your very helpful clarification. I often misinterpret sarcasm and am not much better with "group think." Lucky for me as cult recruiters quickly give up on me.

by Anonymousreply 16206/02/2013

What was really going on with Oprah Winfrey?

by Anonymousreply 16306/02/2013

"The basic aim of the cult is to create a society in which everyone, even non-Scientologists, is managed by the Church's 'leaders of tomorrow'. In this imagined society, human rights would be disregarded - only 'cleared' and 'non-aberrant' Scientologists would be entitled to any rights.

One critic of the cult, psychologist and author Milton Sapirstein, has argued: 'It is the authoritarian dream: a population of zombies free to be manipulated by the great brains of the founder, leader of the inner manipulative clique.' Some members around the world have been convicted of serious crimes.

In 1996, a French Scientology leader was convicted of involuntary homicide when a court found he was responsible for driving an acolyte to suicide, while in Italy the following year, 29 Scientologists were sentenced to between nine and 20 months in jail after being found guilty of defrauding members and evading Pounds 35million in taxes.

Members have been known to hold 'shoot-a-thon' parties, in which cult members use Uzi and AK47 submachine guns to shoot at photographs of critics and staff members who have left and publicly criticized the organisation."

by Anonymousreply 16406/04/2013

There's an entry in the Celebrity Scientology blog about Miscavage's obsession and fascination with guns. Apparently, there are some rumors within sea org that he has a "commando unit."

by Anonymousreply 16506/04/2013

R165, A commando unit inside Scieno would follow Wright's contention that former military and police experts are employed as security guards. LOL but I wonder if MisCabbage has gun permits for all of his high-level weapons. "Right to Bear Arms" on steroids?

by Anonymousreply 16606/04/2013

Wright also notes the large number of Scienos that die of an early age of cancer. Is the following the real cause?

"The E-meter In Penn & Teller's book on magic called How to Play in Traffic, they say that one of the most important principles of fooling an audience is "Don't tell them what to believe. Show them something that lets them observe and come to their own wrong conclusion."

What better place to hide the cleverest pre-set of all, than right under your nose! This device and its characteristics are covered extensively in the prior edition of Art of Deception.

L Ron Hubbard's E-meter provides a small does of electricity that is in a range that is below the level of sensation to the human body, but enough to cause physiological changes. The current is in a range that has been documented to induce the human body to release its own natural pain killers, like opiates, called endorphins. This is the big secret, the pre-set. The stage contrivance that nobody looks at. All magic tricks include presets - the secretly placed props, that are done before the show. In Scientology, a stage pre-set is the "e-meter".

The induced release of endorphins create in the subject, a predisposition to elation and euphoria. The many repetitive claims and promises in his books and materials, create an almost hypnotic expectation of a certain result, add to this the elation of induced endorphins and Scientology appears to work because Hubbard is so wise.

However, instead of one knowing that one is getting a small jolt of electricity that might have some adverse effects including future cancer and autoimmune dysfunction - one is never told about this pre-set.

Nor is one told that endorphins bind at the same receptors in the brain as morphine and heroin. Nor is one told that one might end up addicted to these induced endorphins and long for the release of more of L. Ron Hubbard's side show carnival technology after one has had a taste.

This secret must remain hidden. Because by keeping it secret, the recipient can only conclude that what he has experienced is due to L. Ron Hubbard's alleged 'greatness', re-enforced by lies about his history and the statues in the hallway, and the pictures in every room, just as Jack Parson's Agape satanic Lodge in Los Angeles had pictures of Alestair Crowley in every room, even assuming a similar pose.

Law enforcement would be well advised to treat Scientologists as junkies who have been tricked into taking a magic snake oil that contains morphine, and have become addicted. They will say anything to ensure they get another dose. In this case after the snake oil salesman got enough junkies to finance enough lawyers and private investigators he managed to get it called a religion to prevent further investigation, and to make extremely difficult succesful prosecution for the simple fraud it is at it's core.

When one tries to explain this to their current junkies they shout: "hate crime."

There is also no fanatic as motivated to, as Hubbard would say, "MAKE IT GO RIGHT" as when he is in need of another fix."

by Anonymousreply 16706/04/2013

I have to wonder if the Celebrity Scientologist blog is getting info from celebs who aren't Scienos but work or sometimes hang out with the Scieno celebs. I have noticed that some of Scienos who work mostly in TV rarely mention or interact with their former co-stars after shows end. Jason Lee and Ethan Suplee still hang out with the non-Scenos from My Name Is Earl. But a lot of that is due to Greg Garcia doing reunions on Raising Hope. Then again I can see Jason trying to reel in Lucas Neff and Shannon Woodward into the cult.

by Anonymousreply 16806/04/2013

Every cult like religion more or less encourages it's members to stay away from outsiders.

by Anonymousreply 16906/04/2013

R169, There is a difference between "encourages it's members to stay away from outsiders," and forces them to divorce or physically separate for years without visitation rights. What "cult like religion" that you know of screens and restricts members mail and phone calls? In which are frequent abortions required? Can you answer Wright's question of why so many Scieno members die of cancer?

by Anonymousreply 17006/04/2013

R171, What would I ever do without you, DL self-appointed hall monitor?

by Anonymousreply 17206/04/2013

I don't know R172, bore somebody else to death?

by Anonymousreply 17306/04/2013

R173, Why don't you beg someone to teach you how to skip posts that don't meet your qualifications for exciting entertainment?

by Anonymousreply 17406/04/2013

rand r92, your stories have hit very close to home.

...except that I accepted MY guy's proposal.

by Anonymousreply 17506/04/2013

r167 how does this little electric shock end up creating cancer?

by Anonymousreply 17606/04/2013

R176, I'm guessing that some get physically addicted to the brain stimulation induced by hours and hours of electric shocks. It can't be very healthy long term. Perhaps a medical expert could offer an opinion?

by Anonymousreply 17706/04/2013

Mmmmm, traction...

Not tomorrow, not even next year, but the end WILL come because we are patient, we are persistent and WE RUN THIS, not David Miscavige.

Suck it Davy! Enjoy your class action, and expect RICO!

by Anonymousreply 17806/04/2013

R176, "When a person is IN PAIN, and he takes opiates, his pain will reduce to tolerable levels..

When person is NOT in pain and they take opiates they will experience EUPHORIA...

Opiates bind at the same receptor sites as the body's natural pain killers called endorphins

As Scientology was under stress due to bad publicity and the Internet, they actually even increased the current through you body, in their latest models. They told their members this was to make them more accurate, less prone to extraneous readings. . .as a means to "hold onto their flock", and hold onto Tom Cruise. The legal implications are quite astounding. They started setting out "stress-test" tables in shopping centers, to lure in the unsuspecting rubes. This indicates to me that David Miscavige is aware that he is running a scam.

One reader asked me why not hook a nine volt battery to some soup cans? Well, there is also a direct cancer risk.

That is why TEN's pain management devices, give you 1/10th the dose of an e-meter, but supply it in a pulse width modulated means to maximize the endorphin effect while minimizing the destructive, oxidative effects, which result in damage to DNA... It is like X-rays, besides the background X-radiation levels of bright sunlight, the damage from radiation is cumulative, there is lifetime exposure limit before you die of cancer, and strange auto immune diseases, the risk to benefit ratio of such a device must be weighed by a medical professional, and we also have evidence of an inclination of Scientologists to die of cancer and to die young. Further, TEN's machines reverse the current direction, they use alternating current instead of direct current. The dangers from electrolysis induced tissue damage of faradic (direct) current have been known for over 100 years.

There are also reports of a hypnotic effect:

"Regular gentle electrical stimulation in many parts of the brain including the lower part of the reticular formation can change the state of conscious."

by Anonymousreply 17906/04/2013

Continued from R179, It is sometimes placed on the victim to produce a hypnotic state. It would offer Dr Hubbard's cure-all elixir... whose active ingredients bound to opioid receptors in the brain... (morphine and cocaine), it explains Tom Cruise's "Erratic" behavior.

Erratic behavior is in character for a junkie or drug addict. 1) Hubbard used unethical hypnotic techniques in his books and auditing, repetition, fallacious argument techniques. . . 2) The auditing "therapy" . . .depends upon learned conditioning and implanted expectations and unethical hypnosis techniques. Combine this with the drug effect of the electricity of the E-meter, and it becomes very difficult for the victim to conclude anything else other than SCIENTOLOGY WORKS! (as long as he does not know this secret.)

The problem is, Electricity has "worked" since 154 AD.

But, JUST LIKE MORPHINE, or HEROIN, the effect does not last... and he desperately desires more . . .to get that next dose of endorphin!

The addiction model should be similar for any two substances that bind at the SAME imagine a person was secretly 'dosed' with just a small amount of pain-killer. . . and not told! What would that person think if he was told that he was being given a new miraculous therapy developed by the nuclear physicist L Ron Hubbard??? (he took one course in atomic theory and received a F as a grade)

In fact Tom Cruise is addicted to himself.

Tom Cruise's "erratic behavior" is the performance of a narcissistic drug addict.

He is literally addicted to his own body's own endorphins. A runner's "high" is based on the same endorphin rush. Each Scientologist becomes addicted to their own body's endorphins.

by Anonymousreply 18006/04/2013

Here is the original article quoted in R179 and R180 on what is killing Tammy Cruise and one of the most likely factors resulting in many Scienos dying of cancer at a relatively young age.

by Anonymousreply 18106/04/2013

R123, Please read this page on sexually abused kids and Scieno's reaction (or lack of action.)

by Anonymousreply 18206/04/2013

It's looks like Elisabeth Moss has been given PR duty by Miscaviage.

by Anonymousreply 18306/07/2013

Read the book or even a few chapters. This is no religion.

by Anonymousreply 18406/07/2013

R183, Read the transcript of Elizabeth Moss's statement. Is English her native language? Can't believe that this is what Scieno does to your thought processes.

by Anonymousreply 18506/07/2013

Can you imagine being raised to have no ability to think critically. God, what a mess clam brains are. Is this the type of PR they want?

[quote]You have these people in. Glad -- -- have a rich somewhere at that Scientology's -- stability is more. It has wow what -- What is when I talk to people that have that faith warrant they only say yeah I can -- better me yet because I think that's. That's and that's a good way of saying it because there's so much focus on man I guess empowerment in and respecting yourself and and yourself as an individual. That that's a good way of putting it is like a better version have better you know not necessarily changing you -- But I'm also big believer -- -- -- now taking. What works for you know.

by Anonymousreply 18606/07/2013

Is it just me or does Elizabeth Moss's "statement" sound very similar to Tom Cruise's stereotypical rant on Scientology? Either way I have read the excerpt several times and it just doesn't make sense.

by Anonymousreply 18706/07/2013

So somehow Tommy Davis, son of Anne Archer. former cult spokesman, tattooed with the Sea Org logo and possible candidate for Suri Cruise's biodad, got away from the Sea Org without being sent to the RPF (again!) So did his wife, Jessica Feshbach, another rich kid and Katie Holmes' former cult handler (remember the woman who followed Katie 24-7? That one.) If you live in Austin, watch your wallet around Thomas and Jessica Davis.

by Anonymousreply 18806/12/2013

How does someone with no education land a job as a "one of the largest private equity real estate funds in the world?" Tommy Davis left college after a semester to join Sea Org.

by Anonymousreply 18906/12/2013

I'm glad Tony Ortega put up posting on Tommy and Jessica. I wonder the same thing as R189 about Tommy having that kind of job with no education. Maybe there is some Scieno connection there.

by Anonymousreply 19006/12/2013

reading that site and I find out that:

*Francesa Eastwood is a clam & her bf Tyler Shields is a big recruiting clam

*Kyle Eastwood has been recruited for years, he might even be a clam since he's managed by Ron Moss - Elizabeth Moss's father

*Scientology is working hard on recruiting Dina Eastwood as she is really fucked up and they can "help" her.

*Lindsay Lohan is a clam, so are the Ecclestone heiresses

*Zachary Quinto is being worked on by scientologists

by Anonymousreply 19106/13/2013

Also according to the same blog they're trying to break into the Muslim world and Red China.

by Anonymousreply 19206/13/2013

Neil Gaiman is still in. This is from Tilman Hauscherr's stuff.

Name: Neil Gaiman Profession: writer (sandman comics) Status: Clear #6909, SP in 1983; was Class VIII auditor, ran the Birmingham org for a while but scientologist Mark Pope ( claims on 4.4.1995: "Neil is a long time Scientologist". (This might be wishful thinking, i.e. not believing that a son of a scieno in good standing is an SP) Achievement: Sources: "My auditor is a friend of the elder Gaiman." + for most of it The Times, 13.8.1968 David Mayo : "he was a case supervisor at the G.O. at the time of the CMO takeover of the G.O. and the transition to RTC/OSA"

Neil Gaiman is the son of David Gaiman, who was a high co$ official (GO, from 66-83) and is currently active in Russia. (DG's involvement was/is much, much too big to cover here; DG was an SP for a time)

Emerald : I believe Neil Gaiman was active in Co$ later than 1983. His name appears in graduate lists in The Auditor Worldwide (published by AOSH UK): Auditor #202 (copyright 1986) - Neil completed the Hubbard Senior Sec Checker Course #222 (1988) - completed the 21 Dept Org Board Course #227 (1988) - completed the Hubbard Basic Art Course. The Auditor #150

by Anonymousreply 19306/13/2013

God, not Amanda Palmer!

by Anonymousreply 19406/13/2013

More on Gaiman and Palmer:

by Anonymousreply 19506/13/2013

Hmm. How would it mix with Islam? Symbiotic relationship or mutual implosion?

by Anonymousreply 19606/13/2013

R192, Seriously? China and the Islamic world are still very intolerant of outsiders and different ways of thinking. Ironically it would be one way of reducing the number of Scienos alive. Oh wait, they believe in reincarnation.

by Anonymousreply 19706/13/2013

R192, Please provide a link or page to the Scieno quest for Chinese and Muslim recruits. I've had a hard day and need to start laughing again.

by Anonymousreply 19806/13/2013

r198 sorry I did not add the link but I've forgotten where I found it, I think on the site but not sure.

Feel better, I'm having a hard day myself right now.

by Anonymousreply 19906/13/2013

I feel bad for Beck

by Anonymousreply 20006/13/2013

R199, Thanks. I found the link. Getting ready to LOL. Wonder how the Scienos will compare prison in China and the Moslem world to RFF?

by Anonymousreply 20106/13/2013

I don't see Zachary Quinto joining the Scienos. Tyler Shields usually has short term friendships with celebs. He will do photoshoots with celebs and they will hang out with him for awhile. There is a second generation Scieno photographer and artist named Shalon Goss. She hangs out with the Mastersons and Ribisis. She comes off as another Shields type trying to get celebs into Scientology and she has posse of C list actresses who model for her and hang out with her.

by Anonymousreply 20206/13/2013


by Anonymousreply 20306/13/2013

[quote]Following a letter from lawyers for the Church, we apologise to any alien lifeforms for linking them to Scientologists.

by Anonymousreply 20406/13/2013


by Anonymousreply 20506/14/2013

I agree the Scientologists are evil. But this idea they blackmailed Travolta is laughable.

Probably the best thing he could do for his career would be to leave - and be outed.

No reason to think he isn't 100% on board - and is just as crazy and evil as the other Scientologists.

by Anonymousreply 20606/14/2013

[quote]But this idea they blackmailed Travolta is laughable.

Well they must have done something to him because he was not very committed to the church and sort of drop out of it at one point. Somehow they managed to reel him back in.

by Anonymousreply 20706/14/2013

R206, It's very clear after reading this book that Scienos are experts at manipulation though false reporting to the media. Why don't you think that they have blackmailed Travolta?

by Anonymousreply 20806/14/2013

The tabloids said that Kelly Preston was asking him for a divorce. I have no idea how she can hold her head up...everyone knows she's nothing more then a beard and a liar. I have less patience with her then with John Travolta.

by Anonymousreply 20906/14/2013

According to the Scieno Celebrity blog, Preston is a true believer. She might see this as her duty.

by Anonymousreply 21006/14/2013

I can believe that Revolta was blackmailed by the Scienos.

by Anonymousreply 21106/14/2013

I don't think they blackmailed Travolta because the idea behind blackmail is you threaten to reveal a fact that will hurt the person.

I don't see how Travolta would be hurt by publicly leaving the Church and then being outed.

by Anonymousreply 21206/14/2013

There's no defense of Travolta. He's in it, has been in it, supports it, never got Jett the proper medication for his REAL problem, etc. No, he's awful, just like Cruise, and I say this as someone who loved his performance in Primary Colors.

by Anonymousreply 21306/14/2013

R212, Scienos definition of honesty and "the truth" are very different. They've got unlimited money and power, and can easily buy the tabloids to embarrass Travolta, to say the very least.

by Anonymousreply 21406/14/2013

[quote]I don't see how Travolta would be hurt by publicly leaving the Church and then being outed.

Maybe now, but back in the 70s and 80s it would have been a different story.

by Anonymousreply 21506/14/2013

R214 - you honestly think a campaign on the part of Scienos to publicly embarrass Travolta through the tabloids would actually work? The rumors that he is gay have been splashed all over the tabloids for years.

R213 is right.

by Anonymousreply 21606/14/2013

R216 They dont actually have to go through with it, just the threat that they could do it is enough.

by Anonymousreply 21706/14/2013

They can't do anything to Travolta. The sex stuff is out there. Kelly is seen everywhere as a beard. He's in it for his choice and his choice alone.

by Anonymousreply 21806/14/2013

R216, R218, Do you really think that gay affairs are the only thing the Church has on Travolta?

by Anonymousreply 21906/14/2013

R210 That blog is probably right, there has been gossip for years about Kelly being a hardcore Scieno. She is one of the biggest supporters of Narconon Hawaii.

by Anonymousreply 22006/14/2013

I don't think they have "murder" if that's what you mean r219

by Anonymousreply 22106/14/2013

Scienos could use Kelly Preston to prevent Travolta from ever seeing his kids or any close friends ever again.

Wright basically outed Travolta in Going Clear; I'm sure it was with Travolta's consent.

by Anonymousreply 22206/14/2013

R221, I wouldn't put it past Scienos to leak a totally false story about anyone to the paps. They have no morals. I could also see them trapping Travolta with a very young boy as a set up. It's been done before.

by Anonymousreply 22306/14/2013

r222 how could they prevent him from seeing his children? He is financially strong enough to get really good lawyers and get 50% custody, and that is standard.

As far as close friends, I don't think they have any as a couple or singlely, most adults don't have close friends.

Wright might have outted Travolta in GC but he's actually been out for decades. He was outted in the 70's, then recently too.

There is nothing they have on him that hasn't been out there. Stop dreaming that he "doesn't want to be there". He wants to be there or he wouldn't be. FFS, he's not even getting away from Kelly.

by Anonymousreply 22406/14/2013

When they dropped the lawsuit in The Bahamas, everyone should have seen that there was something to hide.

by Anonymousreply 22506/14/2013

R215 - Let's not rewrite history. Travolta discovered Scientology in 1975.

After Urban Cowboy in 1983 his next hit wasn't until Look Who's Talking in 1989.

So I don't see what the tabloids could have done to his career from 1975 to 1989 to make it worse. Or why the Scientologists would be willing to use their time and money to discredit and actor who had pretty much discredited himself.

R217 - really? How can the threat be enough if common sense tells the it won't matter?

Look I get it. Travolta a sympathetic character. Cruise isn't.

But why on earth would you assume this means Travolta is being manipulated into being a Scientologist - and not just a true believer who endorses everything they do?

by Anonymousreply 22606/15/2013

[quote] But why on earth would you assume this means Travolta is being manipulated into being a Scientologist - and not just a true believer who endorses everything they do?

I dont know, but maybe its because I read the book and that is how it is presented.

by Anonymousreply 22706/15/2013

R226, I never said that I support Travolta for stupidly staying with a homophobic and dangerous cult. He's obviously not very smart. I just think that there's more to the story than has yet been revealed.

By the way, I emailed Lawrence Wright a list of questions on the physical and psychological effects of auditing, and how it relates to celebs' mental state. I'm awaiting his answers and will post them on this thread.

by Anonymousreply 22806/15/2013

Was it Cruise or Travolta who once gave a 10 million dollar donation to CO$?

by Anonymousreply 22906/15/2013

r225 they didn't "drop their lawsuit" in the Bahamas, it was an extortion plot against them for negligence of Jett.

The "extortioners" dropped the lawsuit according to what I'm reading. I'm only putting things in quotes since we all know that Jett was not taken care of properly and that the extortioners were correct.

by Anonymousreply 23006/15/2013

R229 I dont remember reading what those two may have given the church, but Nancy Cartwright did give them something like 10 mil once.

by Anonymousreply 23106/15/2013

R228 - well sure there is more to the story.

People join and stay in cults for all kinds of reasons.

I just think it is foolish to contend Travolta remains a Scientogist because he is being blackmailed with the threat of telling the world he is gay.

Which was the original assertion which started this back and forth.

by Anonymousreply 23206/15/2013

r227 interesting that it's presented as poor JT, he can never get away from Scientology since he's being blackmailed? How odd.

Unless he's murdered someone it doesn't sound plausible that the author would do that. Unless there's a pedophile story attached to Travolta, and there could be.

by Anonymousreply 23306/15/2013

R232, R233, Here' THR version of Travolta being "trapped by Scienos." What do you think?

by Anonymousreply 23406/15/2013

r234 - I think it's a terrible thing that the Scienos did to Spanky but she encouraged Travolta to go on the course even after her 2nd escape from them? She was jailed, her baby almost died.

She was a person without funds in that organization, they can do that to her because she's poor, hispanic, etc.

They can NOT harm wealthy people like Travolta, everything that could be said was said about him. He is still choosing to be there.

He can also hire full time bodyguards to protect him from Scientologists if he wanted to.

Plus, look Katie Holmes got out, with her father's help. Katie is free, Suri is not going to be a clam - hell Suri's not even allowed to wear heels anymore.

With money and fame you can do what you want, that includes even with the clams.

by Anonymousreply 23506/15/2013

r2, Did your husband have an older sister named "Shelly"? Would be weird if that were true. Small world, no?

by Anonymousreply 23606/15/2013

Posting from the Scieno Celeb blog about two of Miscaviage's minions who work at CCI.

by Anonymousreply 23706/16/2013

Lots of pics of Connor Cruise at a Scieno wedding. Do we think he looks like Tommy? Didn't know Sonny Bonos' ex-wife (mother of the groom) was a Scieno too. Was Cher ever approached?

by Anonymousreply 23806/17/2013

R238 I think Connor does look like Tom and there have been rumors for awhile that he is the product of an affair Tom had. I recall reading somewhere that back in the 70s, Sonny and Cher and many well known musicians were approached by Scienos. Cher didn't believe the crap that Scienos were spewing.

I also remember reading that Peggy Lipton was a Scieno and she tried to get Elvis in. Does anyone know how Peggy managed to leave CO$ and not endure harrasament?

by Anonymousreply 23906/17/2013

Future revolution in Bahrain with Anonymous and Sienos taking sides??? Dubai too??? WTF???

by Anonymousreply 24006/17/2013

Cher is too cheap to fall for clam$ and their $hit.

R226 you might be forgetting that total "bomb" called Saturday Night Fever in 1977 and the other "bomb" called Grease in 1978...Travolta was huuuuuge when they came out back to back, and Welcome Back Kotter was still on...I think the clam$ Sunk their teeth into him then and as soon as they started "advising" him his career went into the toilet, like ever clam-led star's career does. He turned DOWN An Officer and a Gentleman and American Gigolo... so he could make cinematic masterpieces like "Two of a Kind" and "Perfect"

Full disclosure: I fucking love Two of a Kind. But you get my point.

by Anonymousreply 24106/17/2013

R241, Can't see Travolta in Gere's role in either An Office and A Gentleman or American Gigolo. Always thought Travolta was a better dancer than an actor, and IMHO he would not be believable as a military officer.

Don't know when Sonny Bono got involved with the Scienos. Was he mayor at the same time? Didn't gay voters know about the connection? Was Cher really too cheap or too savvy?

by Anonymousreply 24206/17/2013

Money is probably the reason some celebs reject the clams.

by Anonymousreply 24306/17/2013

R243, Money and not common sense is the reason some celebs reject the clams? On the internet there are claims that George Clooney even got involved. He did take acting classes with Milton Katselas, who at one time was the primo Scieno recruiter for wannabe celebs. Also, what's the Oprah Winfrey connection?

by Anonymousreply 24406/17/2013

Oprah's constant promotion of Scieno celebs over the years has baffled me mostly because there is lot of dirt on Scientology out there. Oprah said in some interview years ago that her talk show staff did in depth research on guests and topics. Her staff had to have known about Paulette Cooper, Lisa McPherson death, Narconon crap and similar stories.

I think many people have forgotten about Oprah's friendships with Tammy and Revolta. Tony Ortega, Lawrence Wright, and few other journalists have done a great job about educating the public on Scientology. I think there will be some kind of blowback for Oprah later on when it comes to her Scieno connections.

If Oprah's talk show was still on today, I don't think she would be promoting her Scieno friends that much. Tammy and Revolta's movie careers haven't been too hot. I don't think she has done any "Next Chapter" episodes with Scieno celebs for the OWN network.

by Anonymousreply 24506/17/2013

Agreed that Scientology is too toxic for Oprah to want to touch should she ever relaunch a talk-show product. This would put her in an interesting quandary with her longtime pals Travolta et al, though we'll probably never hear about it.

Reporters didn't want to touch the cult after the Time lawsuit until the protests in 2008 caught a little media attention. This also served to help pull their legal teeth a little - how do you sue 9000 kids in costumes and plastic masks dancing out front of your cult, who have no leaders and no centralized planning? The exes and longtime activists took the opening and ran with it, and new alliances grew. Some anons stayed, and now the anti-cult forces are about equally made up of anons, original activists and a growing number of new (and very angry!) ex-Scientologists. Despite occasional drama, it works and it works well. David Miscavige, your day of reckoning is coming...

He's definitely publicizing future DVDs, but some of us think Cruise may also be shilling for Wallyworld because he's realizing he needs to reframe his career away from public association with the cult - he's toast in the US if he doesn't, and it's spreading to Europe. He sees nothing wrong with slave labor - he's used it from the Sea Org for years.

R342, here's an old article relevant to your interests - Sonny was so into Scientology the 'president' of the cult hoped to officiate at his funeral! "Where's Heber Jentsch?" is a question that resonates just as hard as "Where's Shelly Miscavige?" with Scientologists - he's a lifer in Davy's prison camps too.

by Anonymousreply 24606/17/2013

One celebrity who got it about the money:

[quote]Peggy Lipton tried to interest her boyfriend, Elvis Presley, in Scientology, according to one of Presley's associates, Lamar Fike. "One day, in LA, we got into the limousine and went down to the Scientology center on Sunset, and Elvis went in and talked to them," Fike later recalled...."He came out and said, 'Fuck those people! There's no way I'll ever get involved with that son-of-a-bitchin' group. All they want is my money'."

by Anonymousreply 24706/17/2013

How come so many aren't smart enough to see that the Cos just wants their money? How come they are so easily conned? I don't get it. I mean, are they that in need of having their asses kissed?

by Anonymousreply 24806/17/2013

They get their asses kissed AND they get to believe they're 'saving the planet', like the regular public Scientologists do.

Want to play 'spot the Scientologist', or even join in on the pushback? There's a TV program about the war between the cult and the 'independants' airing on Channel 4 in the UK tonight. Culties are already whining here:

by Anonymousreply 24906/17/2013

R248, I have noticed that some of the celebs who join COS don't seem like sharpest tools in the shed. Kirstie Alley and Leah Remini are examples. Was Leah the subject of blind item about an actress trying to leave Scientology?

by Anonymousreply 25006/17/2013

R245, Years ago Sally Jesse Raphael did one of the 1st talk shows on the Scienos. A girl was worried that her elderly Mom had sunk her life savings into the cult, was also working extremely long hours under poor conditions and without any health or retirement benefits. Another woman said that when her Mom got too sick to be productive, she would be dumped on the street with absolutely nothing. Surely Oprah could have found this out?

by Anonymousreply 25106/17/2013

I wish the show would air here in the States.

I have nothing good to say about Oprah. Let Tom Cruise kiss her butt, I won't.

by Anonymousreply 25206/17/2013

The show might be put up on youtube later on. There are a couple of past UK company produced anti-Scieno docs up on youtube.

by Anonymousreply 25306/17/2013

It'll be uploaded somewhere online very quickly once it's aired, probably late tonight - I'll post a link then. I hope someone will pick it up for US airing too, even though still-in culties won't be 'allowed' to watch it either way. Oh the entheta!

Thing to remember about the 'independent' Scientologists is that they still believe 100% in the Hubbard bullshit - they just don't like the way Miscavige is running 'their church'. They refuse to see that the disconnection, fair game and crush regging they object to comes straight from Hubbard's writings. Even if it's truly evenhanded, the batshit on both sides should shine through. 'Independent' guru Marty Rathbun destroyed evidence to orchestrate the coverup of Lisa McPherson's murder, isn't a bit sorry for it, still believes in Hubbard's genius and makes a living selling himself as a "true to Source" Scientology auditor.

That said, the 'independents' are like a stopped clock, right twice a day, and are super useful in getting people out of Big Cult. But the 'indie movement' is doomed too, for the same reason as the rest of Scientology - once people are out and start looking freely around the Internet they slowly begin to realize the old man was lying, then that he was mentally ill, then that the whole thing is a con, and it's all downhill to true freedom from there.

by Anonymousreply 25406/17/2013

Are Peggy Lipton's children Scienos? The one on Parks & Recreation?

by Anonymousreply 25506/17/2013

R255 Peggy's children aren't Scienos. The one on Parks &Rec made some comment about John Travolta needing to come out. She later apologized for that comment.

by Anonymousreply 25606/17/2013

Rashida? None of the usual signs, e.g. she's not seen there, wasn't in a cult school and identifies herself as Hindu. And IIRC Peggy never got fully in - did she mention it in her biography? They did get her brother for awhile:

[quote]Begun in the late '60s, the Celebrity Centre started in a rented building at 1809 West Eighth Street, with five or six staff members headed up by a charming Australian named Yvonne Gillham. One of the early converts was Bobby Lipton. At the time his sister Peggy was the hot star of The Mod Squad, and at the Celebrity Centre he definitely felt "the reflected glory--I was the brother of ..." To alleviate the expense of taking courses, Lipton says he was pressured to proselytize--including to his sister. "Yeah, they were after her," he says.

by Anonymousreply 25706/17/2013

Is Peggy Lipton still a clam?

by Anonymousreply 25806/17/2013

I think Peggy became a Hindu and her daughter did as well. If I remember correctly she reverted back to being Jewish though.

by Anonymousreply 25906/17/2013

R241 - my point is there was no credible blackmail threat because as you pointed out his career when in the toilet just a few short years after he was first introduced to Scientology.

If someone wants to make the argument that Scientology manipulates all members - including Tom Cruise - and therefore they should not be held accountable for their actions - fine.

But the tone of this thread as been to cut Travolta slack.

I just don't see why.

by Anonymousreply 26006/17/2013

[quote]But the tone of this thread as been to cut Travolta slack. I just don't see why.

Because you didnt read the book. You know, the book this thread is about.

by Anonymousreply 26106/17/2013

Why did Milton Kateselas risk his esteemed career as an acting teacher with the Beverly Hills Playhouse to push future acting stars into Scientology?

I would never cut Travolta slack, as he has the money and power to counteract Scienos harassment if he left the cult. Considering how many have been duped into believing that they would have an acting career, like his, if they signed up for courses, I think that Travolta has a moral obligation to speak out.

However I just re-read the passage where an explicit porno tape with John and several men was buried by the Scienos years ago. It just didn't explain how they got a copy of the tape.

by Anonymousreply 26206/17/2013

Lawrence Wright on Milton Katselas: [quote]He was an OT V and a very public Scientologist, but he had stopped moving up the Bridge, in part because he refused to travel to Flag, where the upper-level courses were offered. Moreover, he had gotten into Ethics trouble because of his behavior with some of his female students. Jenna Elfman was a leader of the revolt against Katselas. She had been one of his prize students, winning a Golden Globe Award in 1999 for her free-spirited performance in the sitcom Dharma & Greg. Allen Barton, who had become a teacher at the Playhouse, wrote Elfman a letter in June 2004, begging her to relent. He called the movement against Katselas "Scientological McCarthyism," harking back to the blacklisting of Hollywood celebrities in the 1950s because of their supposed Communist sympathies. (pp. 258-259)

Katselas was attacked even harder by cultie Grant Cardone, of the super-salespitch infomercials:

by Anonymousreply 26306/17/2013

Re Oprah, she's #1 in advocating myths as truths according to this older citation. Maybe that's why OWN isn't the powerhouse she wanted.

by Anonymousreply 26406/17/2013

R263, Thanks for the link on "acting teacher to the stars" Milton Katselas. One of the comments on the Village Voice claims that Katselas, like Ronnie Chasen, was murdered by Scilon hit men. What do you think?

by Anonymousreply 26506/17/2013

Why would RC be a hit target for the Scamotoligist clams for? They are so incredibly stupid about this squirrel BS they pull off. This cult needs to stop.Jenna Elfman must be brainwashed beyond belief. It's unbelievable what that cunt Lafayette Hubbard pulled and got away with.

by Anonymousreply 26606/17/2013

R266, Various comments on the internet all claim RC talked about being stalked and followed. She was working with Jeremy Renner, supposedly the future star of The Master. Also her assassin confessed he was paid $10,000 for her hit.

by Anonymousreply 26706/17/2013

First reports on the documentary are that they swallowed Marty Rathbun's 'independent' bullshit hook line and sinker. It does have lots of his Squirrelbusters video, though, so it'll still be entertaining. And the 'indies' are the very definition of useful idiots, they do get some people out the door. Since this thing was shot they've had their own schism and turned on Rathbun...

Cult was rumored by some to have had a hand in Ronnie Chasen's murder, but nobody ever turned up any connections or even any reason why they'd want to kill her.

Jenna Elfman IS brainwashed beyond belief! Between "AIDS is a state of mind, not a disease" and "Have you raped a baby?" she's pretty well proven that!

by Anonymousreply 26806/17/2013

Why We Protest message board posters discussed RC and one person claimed that RC was a Scieno. Other posters said she repped Danny Elfman and there are mentions of Renner.

by Anonymousreply 26906/17/2013

[quote] she promotes the paranormal, psychic powers, new age spiritualism, conspiracy theories, quack celebrity diets, past life regression, angels, ghosts, alternative therapies like acupuncture and homeopathy, anti-vaccination, detoxification, vitamin megadosing, and virtually everything that will distract a human being from making useful progress and informed decisions in life.

r264 those things he lists are not myths. Homeopathy is not a myth. Acupuncture is not a myth. They are both effective alternative medical choices good for many things.

Ok if he doesn't agree with any of those other things but they are not myths. No one should take someone elses word, we should all make informed decisions from our own experiences and the experiences of those we trust. I don't trust him any more then I do Oprah.

by Anonymousreply 27006/17/2013

R270, I've had acupuncture at a training school. Like massage, it's not a cure-all but it helped for post car accident muscular pain.

My objection to Oprah is that unlike other talk shows, she doesn't present the opposing side. It was always "super-saleswoman" Oprah. Much of her audience isn't savvy enough to make informed decisions or research the internet.

The article also calls out Monetel Williams and Larry King for the same reasons; biased presentations as facts.

by Anonymousreply 27106/17/2013

Most of the people on this thread are NOT giving Travolta a pass. He is in there because he wants to be, he's still giving them money, he's still married to a clam, he's too rich not to be able to tell them to fuck off.

He's in there out of his CHOICE and choice alone.

by Anonymousreply 27206/17/2013

R269, Danny is not in the cult - that's his brother Richard and nephew Bodhi (poor dumb fucker, married to Jenna Elfman!) Anon is nothing if not self-correcting - WWP noted that downthread and called dox or GTFO. I love that people thought of the cult right away over an inexplicable murder, though.

by Anonymousreply 27306/17/2013

R273, So why did LAPD close Chasen's murder case when the suspect bragged he was a hired assassin? Wouldn't they want to know who came up with the money?

by Anonymousreply 27406/17/2013

Didn't the suspect die?

by Anonymousreply 27506/17/2013

R275, The suspect committed suicide when the cops came to his door. That doesn't change the fact that he bragged that he got $10,000 for the hit. Who paid the money?

by Anonymousreply 27606/17/2013

No idea, R274, but until something more solid turns up that could be hung on the cult, it's a derail - and another expression anons brought to the fight is "Stay on target." Until dox are provided, WWP considers it a troll. And they should know - they're masters at trolling in their own right.

Here's a YouTube link to tonight's UK documentary for as long as it lasts - I'll bring the RuTube link when it comes (preferred, as they ignore takedown requests.)

by Anonymousreply 27706/17/2013

I skim-read this book because so much was familiar material. It is well-written and a good intro for those who know little about the Scientos.

The Co$ is going to go after politicians (young or with something to hide) to find mouthpieces to promote the cult. No established stars would ever touch it. Young actors could probably not find it beneficial to their careers or bank accounts.

I guess they've convinced TC he's the new messiah, though no one takes him seriously now.

Miscarriage will never give up his power unless he ends up dead or missing, but he's so wealthy and powerful it would take a strong opponent. And TC is frankly too stupid to run such a big org. Of course, I forget that Reagan was president..

by Anonymousreply 27806/17/2013

R278, You forgot the part in the book where TC says that if Arnold could be governor, then he could be president.

by Anonymousreply 27906/17/2013

Perhaps one reason Travolta is having trouble distancing himself from Scienos, is revealed in Mary Bono's (Sonny's widow) statement from the earlier link. She "discloses that Sonny had his own problems when he tried to break away from the church. Bono recalls traveling with Sonny somewhere in California during his 1991 book tour when church members paid a visit to their hotel. "Sonny did try to break away at one point, and they made it very difficult for him,' she says. 'Extremely difficult. I was resentful of that. I did not like the fact that he said, 'Hey, I'm done with it. I'm not a Scientologist.' And they were saying, 'Hey, you can't do that.' He was amazed, and I was upset.'"

by Anonymousreply 28006/17/2013

There's some awful stuff about the lengths they'd go to keep Sea Org members from blowing. I seem to remember stuff about people making escapes only to find church officials waiting at their destination.


by Anonymousreply 28106/17/2013

Right but sea org members have no money.

Travolta is worth $165m. He could leave, he does not want to.

Sonny Bono probably told the auditors he fucked black tranny hookers or wanted to and that was their hold on him. Sonny had way too much money and could leave but did want those stories to get out at that time.

They can only hold the poor, they really can't hold the rich.

by Anonymousreply 28206/17/2013

R282, At this late stage of his career, could Travolta accept the Scienos releasing the videotape of him participating in group sex with several men, and of all of his lifelong sexual confessions and transgressions, which I'm sure they have on tape as well?

by Anonymousreply 28306/17/2013

Thanks R277 for posting the link.

by Anonymousreply 28406/17/2013

r283 of course he could. The controversy would go away in a month, and it would also be seen as anti-gay and shit would come down on whomever released it.

by Anonymousreply 28506/17/2013

To everyone who keeps saying Travolta could leave any time he wants, you just dont get it. This organization does not take break ups well. There is good reason to believe they have killed people who tried to bolt. If we were to learn they were behind Jett's death I wouldn't be a bit surprised. And besides, maybe he is not thinking about protecting his career, maybe he is thinking about protecting his kids. The guy has enough money so he would never have to work again. But his kids are another story.

by Anonymousreply 28606/18/2013

They're not going to kill someone who is worth $150m. Just not. That person can hire non-clam bodyguards round the clock.

They have killed people that are poor in their org, but they haven't killed any wealthy celebs.

And, at this point there's plenty of people who HAVE LEFT, including Marty Rathbun who is running his own "indie" clam cult. Marty's still alive & not even as rich as JT.

The ex-director? He left, still criticizes them and he's still alive. That cult does NOT have the power over people it did.

Again, JT is there because he wants to be.

by Anonymousreply 28706/18/2013

R287, How would you feel if your kids or relatives were arrested on trumped up charges for drugs or murder? That's a common Scieno practice. They make the Mob look like the Boy Scouts, with ex-FBI agents on the payroll altering credit cards and bank accounts.

by Anonymousreply 28806/18/2013

So, someone like Revolta can't call the FBI to report these people? His local PD? Please bitch, he can do any of those things. He won't because he's still in it.

Again, the people you're talking about that have had bad things happen are people who don't have much money. You can certainly harm people without money.

People WITH money are going to be a lot harder to harm.

by Anonymousreply 28906/18/2013

More than anything else, it's not the fear of physical harm that keeps people in, but the emotional and spiritual abuse of the cult's abusive disconnection policy and its fear of 'losing your own eternity'.

Travolta has a 13 yo daughter and a new baby, and according to exes Kelly Preston is very deeply into the cult. If he left and she didn't, he'd have to go to court to see his children again. Even that might not work - it's more than likely that his daughter is indoctrinated enough that she'd refuse to see him, period, EVER, for the rest of her life! He knows this - he's seen it happen, over and over again, in the years he's been in. He's been ordered to do it to others - they all have.

This isn't going easy on him, it's just a fact - and it's the one thing everyone needs to understand about the cult, IMO. Add this to the way they make everyone believe they'll ruin their lives plus the loss of all his friends and social structure and it makes a toxic soup BEFORE you even put the closet into the mix.

by Anonymousreply 29006/18/2013

Here's a link to the Ch4 documentary from Rutube, where it won't get taken down if someone whines about it.

Ugh, I loathe Marty Rathbun's ego. He thinks he's apologized, but until he comes totally clean on Lisa McPherson and all the rest of his dirt...and the sad thing is, he could sell one whopper of a book AND deal the cult a near-lethal blow if he'd really tell all. Instead he keeps cranking out his pissy little self-published navel gazers and getting mad at people who wonder when he's really gonna come clean.

by Anonymousreply 29106/18/2013

Rathbun will never come clean on McPherson and other things. But his spilling of some inside details will help in the eventual take down of Miscaviage and others in CO$.

by Anonymousreply 29206/18/2013

As long as the clams can sue the shit out of everybody ,they have the upper hand. They became a religion after infiltrating the IRS and God knows what other agencies.Not even the mob could get away with that. Shame on the SU for recognizing this racket as a religion. Germany and France have a pair of brass ones when it comes to calling that scam a sect.

Though I like the fact that public opinion has turned against them. Tammy is seen as a freak these days. Travolta is outed and Alley claims he is the straightest man ever.Talk about newspeak/double talk.

by Anonymousreply 29306/18/2013

R293, If the Scienos penetrate the MidEast as they are planning, and get into conflict with the Muslim world, would the State Dept get involved? Can't wait to see the results; popcorn awaiting.

by Anonymousreply 29406/18/2013

Do you think most Muslims would take kindly to the more looney ideas that are in the upper levels of the Bridge?

I mean, there are some sects that are so devout, they won't use recycled paper out of fear that parts of it might come from a copy of the Qu'ran. Does the Church really think their cosmology is going to blend well with Islam?

by Anonymousreply 29506/18/2013

R295, Since when were the Scienos sensible? MisCabbage is clearly delusional with power and greed. L. Ron Hubbard tried years ago to penetrate Morocco and Greece.

by Anonymousreply 29606/18/2013

R293 I also liked that public opinion has turned against them. I have noticed in the past couple of years, many people are becoming leery of actors and actresses who are Scienos. When it comes to TV biz and current TV shows, the only Scieno who is getting a lot of attention is Elisabeth Moss. Erika Christensen is another Moss type, born into the cult. She defended CO$ sometime after Wright released Going Clear. Christiensen isn't TV critics' fave like Moss is.

by Anonymousreply 29706/18/2013

I feel like Beck is trapped. His alt-genius rep took a bad hit. His management tried to sell him to top 40 radio as a counter-move once Co$ blowblack hit the scene, but the top 40 audience has no loyalty. He is talented and has made great records, so it's a shame. Does the book mention Theresa Duncan and Jeremy Blake?

by Anonymousreply 29806/18/2013

Beck will never leave. He a second generation Scientologist and he is married to a Ribisi.

by Anonymousreply 29906/18/2013

R295, MisCabbage is not known for being realistic. In fact he's more of an egomaniac and power and money hungry than L. Ron Hubbard.

Years ago LRH tried to convince Moroccan leaders they could use his E-Meter to ferret out enemies. Going Clear shows how Scienos were accused of being CIA spies and thrown out of the whole area.

Apparently MisCabbage foolishly believes he won't make the same mistakes. Hopefully this will be his downfall. Don't forget initially Scienos claim that their "religion" does not conflict with Islam. Waiting with popcorn for the radical Muslims to react . . .

by Anonymousreply 30006/18/2013

IMO any talk about expanding Big Cult to the Middle East is fundraising palaver to get into the pockets of the Scientology donor whales (although I'm sure they'd love to pick up a stupid-rich sheikh or two.) Or perhaps Miscabbage has his sucker buddies at the Nation of Islam confused with true Islam?

They con culties into buying "The Way to Happiness" pamphlets for promised distribution at disasters, etc. as a fundraising scam. They're available with a bunch of different covers and can be customized to look like they're sponsored by the local police or fire departments. They've been busted for doing this without permission in the past, and sometimes with - LA County Sheriff Lee Baca is a repeat offender (he's dangerously pro-cult.)

Narconon of Georgia's state license revocation hearing is now scheduled for July 17 in Atlanta. David Miscavige, we are your SPs!

by Anonymousreply 30106/18/2013

R298, Neither Duncan nor Blake are mentioned in Going Clear.

by Anonymousreply 30206/18/2013

R301, Why would Lee Baca be pro-cult? Money? Former CA policemen are employed by Scienos?

Also since Repub Mary Bono is no longer representing Palm Springs, is the new Democrat in office creating a stir with Scienos in Hemet and the rest of the area?

by Anonymousreply 30306/18/2013

This is the most interesting thread on DL right now. Thanks, OP, for starting it.

by Anonymousreply 30406/18/2013

Baca gets a lot of organized campaign contributions from Scientologists in the LA area, and a lot of special attention - they even put him on their float one year in the Hollywood Christmas parade! He's big into Narconon and they let him put his name on their local frontgroup events ("Drug Free Marshals" programs.) The cult organizes its local constituents to support him. He's a menace.

Raul Ruiz? I haven't heard anything about him, other than that he has been made aware of the medical risks of Narconon - he's an MD, so this should make him resistant to the cult's 'safepointing'. The Riverside Co board of supervisors is a bigger local issue, particularly Jeff Stone - he's in the cult's pocket, we think they buy large amounts of their questionable supplements from his compounding pharmacy. He drove through legal restrictions on protestors in front of Gold Base, and was fined for failing to report campaign contributions from the cult to his recent failed bid for a state senate seat.

The cult has a PAC, started by John Coale, Greta VanSusteren's husband (and Sarah Palin's former campaign advisor.) The documents Gawker has here are scary - the strange bylaws and the questions about "lines of influence" are pure Scientology.

by Anonymousreply 30506/18/2013

R301, I truly support "dirtyalleycat" and his response, re Sheriff's Lee Baca distribution of 20,000 Scieno booklets to the poor. They need to read L. Ron Hubbard's comment, "don't murder," LOL.

"This is upsetting to me. Although I don't live in LA, I live in La. As a community activist working to reform the criminal justice system, I am insulted by this sheriff or any government official who would come into a community plagued by violence and distribute be it the bible or The Way to Happiness booklet, instead of addressing the real issue of violence in communities like Inglewood. I am pissed that this sheriff whose department is plagued by abuses thinks it’s a good idea to throw books written by a nutcase at an impoverished community, living in substandard housing and failing schools. What is he trying to tell them? "You only need to clear your body of pesky body thetans, oh my bad, you can’t afford that? Well, let me introduce you to auditing' and someone will guide you into remembering past lives, leading you to believe them as real.” Yeah to new memories! Yeah, to Inglewood you saved yourselves from yourselves, you just had to think differently. See it was always your fault. What is interesting about Rev. Alfredie is, he is not part of the Nation of Islam, he has a Christian church in Compton and uses the other scientology “tools." Is this a trend? I bet this scientology outreach through black churches is a bit more widespread then we know."

by Anonymousreply 30606/18/2013

Great thread. How about Cameron Crow and Nancy Wilson?

by Anonymousreply 30706/18/2013

R307, Going Clear doesn't bring up Cameron Crow or Nancy Wilson. I think he focuses on Cruise and Travolta as they're internationally known superstars. For years have been the poster boys to convince wannabe actors that they too could "make it" against impossible odds in the entertainment world.

Has Elfman been on anything major since her TV show?

by Anonymousreply 30806/18/2013

[quote]Is this a trend? I bet this scientology outreach through black churches is a bit more widespread then we know

That'd be the Ebony Awakening frontgroup, still alive but not doing much business lately (cult seems to have opted for easier pickings among the already-brainwashed in the Nation of Islam.)

by Anonymousreply 30906/18/2013

R309, "Ebony Awakening," (Scieno group) Restoring dignity and self respect in Black communities by eradicating drug abuse, illiteracy and criminality, so that people can live in peace and prosperity without the constant threat of loss.

Am I the only one that thinks it's ironic that DL also has a popular thread, the "real meanings behind horror movies?" LOL, The Body Snatchers.

You're welcome. I'm not OP; just bumped up this thread when the very long library wait list for Going Clear enabled me to read it. So ironic that it was just a few days before After Earth was released.

by Anonymousreply 31006/18/2013

What about Kirstie Ally or Lisa Marie Presley?

by Anonymousreply 31106/18/2013

R308 Elfman hasn't done anything huge since Dharma&Greg. She has had small parts in a few movies and she was on the recently canned 1600 Penn on NBC.

by Anonymousreply 31206/18/2013

"Ebony Awakening" - now there's a drag name

by Anonymousreply 31306/18/2013

R305, Just read Baca ran unopposed for Sheriff, and has long been getting $100,000 a year in "gifts" from Scienos. Plus his off-duty officers make extra $$$ guarding the cult. That includes their special events when they're are protesters. Who was it that said Travolta could always call law enforcement if he felt threatened if/when he left?

by Anonymousreply 31406/18/2013

How come media didn't pounce on the OJ/Scieno connection?

by Anonymousreply 31506/18/2013

R311 I dont recall a real lot about them in the book. They are mentioned, but not a real lot or in any detail. The celebrities who have most of the focus are TC and JT. And Anne Archer, but mostly because of her son. There is far more on Cruise than Travolta, but of course he has a much higher profile in the church. The celeb who has by far the most focus is Paul Haggis, the screen writer.

by Anonymousreply 31606/18/2013

R294 The Muslims will eat them alive.Unlike established religions it will be severely persecuted and probably be banned.The state department can do all it wants BUT Germany and France still consider it a cult. The Muslims barely tolerate Christianity(in some cases they are out rightly persecuted) in the Middle East they will not tolerate a pyramid scheme/scam masquerading as a religion called Scientology.

by Anonymousreply 31706/18/2013

R316, Paul Haggis, the Academy Award winner, has the most focus because his story of recruitment and longtime association with Scieno forms the framework for the book. Many on DL have asked how very intelligent, creative people get sucked in to giving hundreds of thousands of dollars. Sure Haggis thought "Dianutty" was madness; he didn't disconnect until years and years later.

by Anonymousreply 31806/18/2013

Jenna Elfman creeps me out more than any other Scientologist. I don't know why - Miscavige and Cruise are obviously worse. Elfman just makes my skin crawl every time I see her. No wonder she doesn't get much work anymore.

This tactic of screaming at people that they raped a baby is bizarre. Apparently this "church" teaches its member do do that. Fucking head cases, the lot of them.

by Anonymousreply 31906/18/2013

R296 Actually his nickname should be Misscabbage!Or even Hisscabbage......I wonder if he ever indulged in the homosex.

by Anonymousreply 32006/18/2013

R317, Can't wait for the Muslims to eat and destroy Das Midget (MisCabbage) and the Scienos. My question re the State Dept, since most are American citizens would the US government be required to intervene if they were arrested?

How much payola would need to change hands for the Scienos to pass out "The Way to Happiness" booklets in the MidEast?

by Anonymousreply 32106/18/2013

Thanks for the wit and wisdom, R313 - I'm seeing David Miscavige in blackface makeup and a truly fierce wig.

Paul Haggis cooperated fully with Wright in telling his story for Going Clear. If you haven't read the book, Wright's leadup article in the New Yorker is a great sample.

by Anonymousreply 32206/18/2013

R320, Do you like Das Midget, proponent of Dianutty (Dianetics) any better?

Lawrence Wright spent a lot of time describing the incestuous relationship/similarities between Tammy and Das Midget. In not homosex, it sure sounds homoerotic IMHO.

Also Misscabbage set up Scieno friendships between Tammy and very good looking, younger men of a certain type, in the name of auditing and Scieno training. Pretty young ladies were assigned to supervise all of his wives and potential girlfriends. Hmmm . . .

by Anonymousreply 32306/18/2013

"Slappy", for his propensity to beat up Sea Org staff, works too. This little clip that got out into the wild sent must have really sent him over the edge (there are some funny remixes too.) And there's some funny footage of a 250K birthday party he threw for Cruise on the Freewinds, this while there were Sea Org staff on board eating nothing but rice and beans...

by Anonymousreply 32406/18/2013

Das Midget? The German article Das(neutral article) instead of Der? It should be Der(masculine article),no?Misscabbage is still a man the last time I checked.....;)

Dianutty is cute though.

There seems to be a bromance between Missy and Tammy. I don't know what they are doing together though.

Someone claimed that Tammy stopped being a clam for a I find that hard to believe.He seems to be such an ardent follower of this Scamotology. I had heard that soap actress Michelle Stafford(a dyke's dyke) is being groomed as Tammy's new companion.If it's true Michelle can stick out her Gene Simmons like tongue and pretend to be turned on by Tammys' mussy. This will all be entertaining if it really happens.....

by Anonymousreply 32506/18/2013

This is my personal favorite image of Tom and Slappy - check out the worshipful gaze, Tom's eeedjit grin and Katie's "WTF?"

by Anonymousreply 32606/18/2013

Gotta give Katie a ton of credit.She realized that the whole thing was a bag of bullshit. She's got brass ones the size of Cleveland to fuck with Scamotologists and came out on top. She played fire with fire and won a nice little war with the clams.I wonder what secrets she knows about Tammy and Company though.......

by Anonymousreply 32706/18/2013

R325, Going Clear implies that Nicole Kidman pressured TC to distance himself from the Scienos. Her Australian father is a well-known psychologist and author; definitely a Suppressive Person according to Scienos. They were both raised Catholic.

Apparently TC asked for Scienos help in controlling the media in his favor when he decided to divorce Nicole. That reeled him back in to the cult.

One can deduce much info from what is hinted at in this book. For example if Misscabbage always drinks a large quantity of top notch straight scotch every night with his tight male buds, is he then an alcoholic and impotent? If and gossips about TC, is he then an alcoholic and impotent? If he permanently banished his wife, and appears in person only with men, is he closeted? If he frequently beats up his close male subordinates, is he into S/M?

by Anonymousreply 32806/18/2013

IMDB lists Andrew Loog Oldham and Bernadette Peters as Scientologists. Anyone know anything about them?

by Anonymousreply 32906/18/2013

[quote]One can deduce much info from what is hinted at in this book.

That is both where the books successes and where it fails. Even if Wright had people who could confirm what is hinted at, I wonder if even he would be brave enough to publish it, given how litigious CO$ is. But your right, the message that comes across is Miscavige and Cruise are two peas in a pod. Men who are sexually confused and in a state of arrested development, man children if you will. Miscavige was violent as a child, so he probably was abused as a kid, as was Tom Cruise. And yea, his short stature seems to be a issue for him.

BTW. I would encourage using the correct spelling of his name here. We can be sure he and Cruise will Google their names to see what is being said about them on line (they are that self absorbed) and as remote a chance as it may be, I get a little thrill knowing they may find this page and see someone speculating about their sex life and abusive parents.

by Anonymousreply 33006/18/2013

Yep, Katie was definitely cause over Tom in the end. Her dad started planning right after the wedding, and got some help from the exes to understand what he was up against. He was advised to be patient and never to criticize the cult to avoid disconnection, and when she was finally ready to go he was ready too, with a burner phone bought with cash and a divorce suit ready to roll. And today he has his daughter AND granddaughter too. Well done Papa Holmes (and Mom and Katie too!)

Here's a PDF put together by the ex-Sea Org guy who made all Miscavige's expensive toys given to Cruise (stored on Rathbun's website - told you he's a useful idiot.) He documents the work he put into the airplane hangar and fancy limo, none of which cost Cruise one red cent. No wonder Tom doesn't want to leave, even when the career liability outweighs the value of the perks.

by Anonymousreply 33106/18/2013

R325, Michelle's 5'7" and in her 40s. Maybe TC thinks that he can recover some of his frau fans with a more age appropriate match?

Plus Michelle uses her surrogate-spawned baby girl as an excuse not to be dating men. TC must think that he would look great in pap shots as the adoptive father, and with a legit excuse not to be the bio-dad. Since Michelle and Scieno Kirstie Allie are apparently good friends, are TC and Allie on good terms too?

by Anonymousreply 33206/18/2013

r290 he could certainly afford attorneys, good ones that would get in 50% custody and require that no religion be taught to his kids - it happens and he's got the dough, she doesn't.

by Anonymousreply 33306/18/2013

R330, The bromance between TC and Misscabbage is extremely, overly competitive and its focus is on material possessions and power. Now what would it take for TC to realize that bad publicity from being a Scieno suck up is making him less than a top dog in the world of Hollywood?

If TC is reading DL, and I hope that means this entire thread, could someone convince him that he'd get massive frau attention if he played the innocent victim of extensive Scieno fraud?

by Anonymousreply 33406/18/2013

R330, It was clear in the book that both TC's and DM's viewed physical violence in the family, as well as severe emotional abuse, as normal to a point. I'll bet both also have superiority complexes. So how can TC accept the fact that the world now knows his "bud" regularly laughs about his sexual revelations with other men? Wouldn't super competitive TC want to get even?

I'd love to read a psychiatrist's or psychologists's commentary on Going Clear, if anyone knows of any valid ones online.

by Anonymousreply 33506/18/2013

R334 R335 Cruise is so deluded, is so totally convinced at how right he is I would guess he refuses to see what his association with the church is doing to his career, and would label the stories of Miscavage laughing at him behind his back as nothing more than attacks and lies by suppressive beings. I have a feeling a big part of what Cruise gets out of CO$ is validation. Actors can be very insecure people. Cruise came from an abusive home where he probably didnt feel loved. He was a failure in school, and failed at his first dream, becoming a priest. He has three failed marriages under his belt. He surrounds himself with people who are basically yes men, people who stroke his ego and make up the cocoon which separates him from reality. He says he could be President of the US, and hundred people in the room tell him he's right. Lots of people have set ups like that, but nothing can rival the trappings CO$ provides for him.

by Anonymousreply 33606/18/2013

R336, True. How deluded would you have to be to believe that you could actually be POTUS without ever having held another elective or even appointive governmental office? Even as a joke, it's way over-the-top.

by Anonymousreply 33706/18/2013

R329 I had read somewhere before about Bernadette Peters being in CO$. She seems to be low key about it.

by Anonymousreply 33806/18/2013

R338, Some celebs have taken a few courses and then dropped out quietly, fearing retaliation. Perhaps that's why Bernadette Peters status' is unknown.

Very surprised to find on a Scieno list, "Lamia Khashoggi - wife of wealthy and famous Saudi arms dealer Adnan Khashoggi"

by Anonymousreply 33906/18/2013

R337 Actually its not that much of a delusion. One could say to some degree Eisenhower falls under that category. Plenty of people were able to overlook that when voting for Ross Perot or Ralph Nader. I think Americans would warmly embrace a government outsider as President. But a high school drop out who thinks the worlds problems began billions of years ago when an intergalactic warlord transported souls in DC 10s, dropped them in a volcano then nuked them? That's going to be a tough sell.

by Anonymousreply 34006/18/2013

R339, the IMDB list doesn't include a lot of people who only took a couple courses but are still commonly on such celebrity Scientology lists (like Jerry Seinfeld and Jeffrey Tambor, for instance), which made me wonder.

by Anonymousreply 34106/18/2013

R340, Remember when it was thought that Colin Powell could be the 1st Black president? The "outsiders" you list have demonstrated clear leadership and negotiating skills, are superb public speakers, and like Arnold, usually are a very well-known figurehead for others making actual governmental policies, like Eisenhower.

by Anonymousreply 34206/18/2013

A Scientologist I met told me she was forced off an elevator at the Celebrity Center in the early 2000's because Janet Jackson and her bodyguards needed it. She did as instructed. She may have been just checking it out in the Lisa Marie/Michael era

by Anonymousreply 34306/18/2013

[quote]how can TC accept the fact that the world now knows his "bud" regularly laughs about his sexual revelations with other men? Wouldn't super competitive TC want to get even?

Cruise is a true believer, heavily conditioned to turn away from anything negative about the cult ("entheta") or its leadership, or anything said by SPs or the "bitter defrocked apostates" who told about Miscavige joking about the contents of his auditing folders. So he wouldn't be aware of it at all.

R330 is absolutely right about Google and correct spelling, though it won't be the subjects themselves who find it. OSA is specifically "hatted" to go on the Internet and report back what's being said to David Miscavige. Misscabbage. HISScabbage. Slappy. Dainty Davey. Tiny Cancer...the malignant dwarf...

Anyway, they're easy to drive off if they show up. These days there's so much shit online they usually stick to discussions about "opinion leaders" like Will Smith or bawwwwing at the major media. Tory Christman did this for awhile as a public member on alt.religion.scientology - that's actually how she got out and became torymagoo44 on YouTube (with more subscribers than the official Scientology channel!)

by Anonymousreply 34406/18/2013

R343 Michael and Lisa Marie's marriage was back in the mid 90s. But there speculation that the Lisa Marie/Michael marriage was attempt to get in MJ in COS.

by Anonymousreply 34506/18/2013

R344, When will directors of TC's next films place restrictions on his Scieno public outbursts and onset proselytzing? Maybe not overseas but I sense a growing backlash of his non-MI films in the USA.

Sure hope Dar/Das Midget won't cause DL grief for all of our "fan letters." Do we really think that he's closeted or just asexual? LOL

by Anonymousreply 34606/18/2013

R346 closeted

by Anonymousreply 34706/18/2013

[quote]Paul Haggis cooperated fully with Wright in telling his story for Going Clear.

Was there any commentary in the book about how Haggis's life is like after leaving? Has he been followed or threatened like other apostates or does his high profile protect him? I recall reading in the New Yorker piece that some clams including Anne Archer did some kind of an intervention that turned nasty.

by Anonymousreply 34806/18/2013

R348 Yes, there was an encounter with Archer that grew heated. Apparently though, she was more upset with what Haggis had said about her son in an interview than anything else. Haggis situation seems not unlike a lot of other people who left the group. Deep down, they feel the core of the message is good, but they dont like the way the organization is being run. For Haggis, the issue that really did him in was the CO$ and Prop 8 and the overall homophobia in the church. Haggis has a daughter who is gay and the way she was being treated was what really got him worked up.

by Anonymousreply 34906/18/2013

Does anyone get a creepy vibe from Archer? Someone else here said that Jenna Elfman creeped them out. But Archer creeps me out more.

by Anonymousreply 35006/18/2013

Actually 2 of Haggis' daughters are gay. One daughters' Scieno school friend, who is TC's niece, stopped talking to her completely once she came out. Haggis tried to pressure Scieno spokesman at the time, Tommy Davis, into making public statements condemning Prop 8 and L. Ron Hubbards' anti-gay statements. No go.

All of Haggis' Scieno friends and business associates were forced to completely disconnect from him, just as his mother-in-law could not see her grandchildren once she left the cult. Interesting that close non-Scieno coworkers did not know of his previous cult membership.

While groups of Scienos kept repeatedly showing up at his work "to talk," Haggis has not reported any other serious problems or threats. He now lives in New York.

by Anonymousreply 35106/18/2013

Second generation Scieno Danny Masterson said in an interview that Haggis was an asshole to him. I don't believe a lot of the crap Masterson says. He is another creepy ass Scieno.

There is a rumor that Haggis was the one who got Michael Pena into CO$.

by Anonymousreply 35206/18/2013

I went to check out M. Katselas' Bev Hills Playhouse in its heyday in the late '90's. They demanded you buy these cheap duo tang notebooks filled with L.Ron junk for $150 along with high class fees. The students were all great looking, gay as hell soap actors for the most part who seemed tense. For the men, nobody was gay, but everybody was. I laughed my ass off at this spectacle and its lemmings and bailed.

by Anonymousreply 35306/18/2013

R353, I remember when so many said that BH Playhouse and Scientology was a quick way to get your acting career into gear. In reality many of the soap casting directors wanted "favors" in exchange for parts. A good friend of mine, you looked like he just stepped off a BH yacht, was propositioned. He came from a rich family and so turned him down.

by Anonymousreply 35406/18/2013

That's creepy about the Playhouse, r353. Wish someone had a copy of that notebook.

Danny Masterson's BS is exactly the kind of whiny thing I'd expect. Haggis' sister, still in, put up a hate blog. He may just be too outspoken and high-profile for them to mess with - maybe they're finally realizing that's exactly what the world associates with Scientology now?

The letter he wrote to Archer's son Tommy Davis is pretty spectacular - he also called him out for his hypocritical media statements denying the practice of disconnection and for using private 'confessional' information against departing members. He hasn't been afraid to keep exposing that hypocrisy in interviews, either. It probably got Davis into 'ethics' trouble and may have been the reason he left the Sea Org:

by Anonymousreply 35506/18/2013

[quote]When will directors of TC's next films place restrictions on his Scieno public outbursts and onset proselytzing?

Let's hope never - every time he opens his mouth he hurts the cult. And I doubt if it's up to the directors. He supposedly broke with Pat Kingsley because she strongly advised him to stay away from Scientology in interviews (which would have made her PTS!) then hired his cultie sister to run his PR. Let off that chain, he gave us the attack on Brooke Shields, the insults to Matt Lauer, the couchjumping on Oprah and finally, the video leak that broke the camel's back, brought on Project Chanology and thus spawned Anonymous. Keep on talking, Tom!

by Anonymousreply 35606/19/2013

R350, I'm the poster who finds Jenna Elfman uber-creepy.

I also find Anne Archer creepy, just not quite as creepy as I find Elfman.

I did a google search but could not find video of Elfman screeching "what are your crimes?" and "have you raped a baby?" and so on. I could have sworn it was floating around on the interwebs. It was over some guy wearing a "Scientology is Gay" t-shirt with pictures of Tammy and Miss Travolta on it.

Do they teach all of their members to scream at people about baby raping and accuse people of crimes? So weird.

by Anonymousreply 35706/19/2013

well r357 IF you're being real, it's easy to find.

[quote]Roecker says Jenna repeatedly said "What crimes have you committed?" and began screaming at Roecker, "Have you raped a baby?" as motorists on Los Feliz Boulevard drove by in snarled traffic.

by Anonymousreply 35806/19/2013

Not about baby raping, but the "What are your crimes?" Yes, they are taught to yell that at critics and protestors, because Hubbard said so:

[quote]Now get this as a technical fact, not a hopeful idea. Every time we have investigated the background of a critic of Scientology we have found crimes for which that person or group could be imprisoned under existing law. We do not find critics of Scientology who do not have criminal pasts. Over and over we prove this. - Critics of Scientology, "Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter," 5 November 1967

The bit about raping a baby is probably her flawed recall of a security check, which contains questions like this...

Have you ever raped anyone or been raped? Have you ever been involved in an abortion? Have you ever committed adultery? Have you ever committed bigamy? Have you ever practised homosexuality? Have you ever practised or assisted intercourse between women? Have you ever had intercourse with a member of your family? Have you ever been sexually unfaithful? Have you ever practiced sex with animals? Have you ever publicly exhibited yourself sexually? Have you ever hidden to watch sexual practices? Have you ever practised sodomy? Have you ever consistently made a practice of sex with a member of your own sex? Have you ever slept with a member of a race of another color? Have you ever committed culpable homicide? Have you ever committed a justifiable crime? Have you ever bombed anything? Have you ever murdered anyone? Have you ever hidden a body? Have you ever attempted suicide? Have you ever kidnapped anyone? Have you ever done any illicit diamond buying? Have you ever acted as an informer? Have you ever betrayed anyone for money? Have you ever betrayed a trust? Have you ever betrayed an employer's trust? Have you ever speculated with somebody else's funds? Have you ever knowingly implicated an innocent person? Have you ever withheld a communication concerning a crime or misdemeanor committed by another? Have you ever threatened anyone with a firearm? Have you ever been in illegal possession of firearms? Are my questions embarrassing? Have you ever been paid for giving evidence? Have you ever acted as an informer? Have you ever injured somebody's reputation by knowingly spreading lies? Have you ever injured somebody by spading tales you knew were true? Have you ever destroyed something belonging to someone else? Have you ever plotted to destroy a member of your family? Have you ever had a member of your family in an insane asylum? Have you ever been pronounced insane? Have you ever been a spy for an organization? Have you ever looted any place? Have you ever stolen from the armed forces? Have you ever conspired with anyone? Have you ever had anything to do with Communism or been a Communist? Have you practised fraud? Have you ever been a newspaper reporter? Are you hiding anything? Have you ever had intercourse after placing another under alcohol or drugs? Have you ever used hypnotism to procure sex or money? Do you collect sexual objects? Have you ever ill-treated children? Have you ever practised sex with children? Have you ever practised masturbation? Have you ever taken money for giving anyone sexual intercourse? Have you ever sexually coerced a servant? Do you have any bastards? Are you withholding anything? Have you ever had any connection with a brothel? Have you ever coerced anyone into giving you sex? Have you had anything to do with a baby farm?

...all things Hubbard considered, and Scientology still considers, crimes. More sec checks (including the one for children!) here:

by Anonymousreply 35906/19/2013

Has anyone ever walked out after being asked some of those very private questions (ie sexual fidelity) and demanded a refund? I honestly think that I'd start laughing at them if they asked me some of those crazy things.

by Anonymousreply 36006/19/2013

"Baby farm?"

by Anonymousreply 36106/19/2013

No doubt some have, but they don't do this to new "raw meat" - by the time you get to this you're all the way in and fully mindwarped, so they usually just cower in fear of anything that means they might have to go through it again. That's why they avoid "entheta" - it lands them in "ethics" where they get subjected to this (and get charged by the hour for it.) Or if they get off on power like the Jenna Elfman types, they aspire to turn around and brutalize others with it.

Hubbard's sexual obsession really shines through, doesn't it? And being gay is a crime x 4 just in this checklist - there are others even weirder. Try the 'whole track sec check', meant to cover all your previous lives:

by Anonymousreply 36206/19/2013

projecting, hubbard was...

by Anonymousreply 36306/19/2013

Could Oprah be a $cientologist? She certainly gives platform to all of their stars. Kirstie Ally has been on her show when NO ONE would have her on, the whole Tom Cruise couch thing, Travolta and his wife numerous times. I know she does celebs but it seems she was always there when a $cieo needed good PR.

by Anonymousreply 36406/19/2013

O is a downlow Scientologist honey.She knows the public perceives it negatively in a way and keeps mum about it. Will Smith as well. They might be dumb enough to join the clam mothership BUT they aren't dumb enough to shout it out loud.

by Anonymousreply 36506/19/2013

[quote]Deep down, they feel the core of the message is good, but they dont like the way the organization is being run.

What *is* the core message of Scientology?

by Anonymousreply 36606/19/2013

That some people are better than others, R366.

by Anonymousreply 36706/19/2013

Scientology is essentially fascist in nature. It aims to bring in a new world order.

Pretty Clear to me.

by Anonymousreply 36806/19/2013

As for Oprah, it is indeed open to doubt.

by Anonymousreply 36906/19/2013

Can we discuss The Parsonage in Pasadena, the wild and witchy sex mansion where Hubbard took up residence as a bohemian border and met sorcerer scientist Jack Parsons? One of the wildest stories I've ever heard. The mansion was razed, but the stories remain

by Anonymousreply 37006/19/2013

The basis of $ci is that we are all covered in green alien goo that we cannot see and it clouds the mind. Only by going through their levels can you remove that goo and get "clear" and achieve a higher sense of being.

in truth it is about stock piling slave labor of for the upper echelon of the church. They force people to sign lifetime contracts, have throngs of people who work for pennies a day doing hard labor to very specific tasks in the glory of serving $Sci.

by Anonymousreply 37106/19/2013

[quote]The basis of $ci is that we are all covered in green alien goo that we cannot see and it clouds the mind. Only by going through their levels can you remove that goo and get "clear" and achieve a higher sense of being.

And *that's* the message they think is good at the core of Scientology?

by Anonymousreply 37206/19/2013

L RON was a failed science fiction writer with the brilliant yet devious idea to come up with his own religion. Those core ideals were secret until they got sued a while back and the inner most ideals were public for one day before they got them sealed up again.

by Anonymousreply 37306/19/2013

And those who are clear (only through scientology can you achieve that status) are better than others.

There is a whole classification of society viewed through the eyes of scientology that pretty much speaks for itself: suppressive persons, wogs...

by Anonymousreply 37406/19/2013

R373, L. Ron was laughed at and humiliated as a bad writer at LASFS, Los Angeles Science Fiction and Fantasy Society, where future writers of the original Star Trek series were the stars due to their creative imaginations. Religion in his mind was a way to wealth and power. He also wanted to make Dinanutty a bestseller.

Surprising the number of former Catholics that get sucked into this farce. Like fundies they tend to see the world in good vs bad terms, with "evil lurking inside men's minds." Enlightenment seems to equal control of one's sexual impulses, with a leadership force playing the superior parental role of shaming and punishing errant "kids."

Any psychologists or psychiatrists on DL? No wonder L. Ron branded them as dangerous; he himself should have been committed.

by Anonymousreply 37506/19/2013

The link is to the affirmations/admissions that came from Hubbard's personal archive of writings. If you look through them you will see he mentions his sexuality and writing several times. It's as if he is trying to brainwash himself.

by Anonymousreply 37606/19/2013

Scienos' twisted obsession with masturbation, sex and confession is even more bizarre than most conservative religions. It's as if they're trying to make you feel guilty so that they can trap you.

A friend reported about an actress who got involved with the cult years ago. Even though she retired to Vegas, they still harass her nonstop with daily calls.

by Anonymousreply 37706/19/2013

R370, Would make a juicy true story horror flick.

by Anonymousreply 37806/19/2013

Why would Scieno in Israel hire the same lawyer that works for an Arab crime group? He was arrested for attempted murder of his own family members.

by Anonymousreply 37906/20/2013

R379 Because Scientology is a racket like a crime syndicate. There are great similarities except that the Scamos have a greater hold over the government than the mob did or does.

by Anonymousreply 38006/20/2013

The Jett Travolta Foundation is donating money to Scieno fronted groups.

by Anonymousreply 38106/20/2013

"Operation Clambake presents: Oxford Capacity Analysis

This is the criticised "personality test" which for many is the first introduction to the "Church" of Scientology. Originally called "American Personality Analysis", but probably changed to "Oxford Capacity Analysis" (OCA) because "Oxford" carries more weight. The original test was created by psychologist Julia Lewis and was later adopted and edited by CoS. The alleged Scientology front company U-MAN use the same test when they do recruitment work for companies. The test is a hoax, and the people evaluating it often don't have proper training. CoS usually pick people off the street, not telling who they represent. If you ask them who they are they will most likely define themselves as a philosophy or just portray themselves as some kind of self-help organisation. If you for example tell them you already belong to another religion, they will often tell you it's still possible to be a Scientologist. We know now that this are all lies, but the Scientologist is so eager to get a sale (they have stats to meet each week and they get between 5% ang 15% of the sales they make) and will tell any story if that makes you come with them. They've been doing this since the early fifties and have had plenty time to improved their sales tricks. Don't underestimate them, some Scientologists are extremely good at what they do. The result of the OCA test will be that they (whatever your result is) will advice you to take some Scientology courses to better your communication or whatever. The first courses are cheap, but when they know you're hooked, the price goes sky-high! People have had to sell all they got, steal and take up more loans than they can manage; just to buy more courses. After spending a fortune on coursing and passed several security checks, you will learn about Xenu and the space opera, BT's and all the other stuff. On this site you will learn all about this, but here we offer all the Scientology secret courses absolutely free.

This OCA test is:

Rigged so that it will usually produce poor results. Without scientific recognition or validity. Sold in a manner deliberately calculated to imbue the testee with the maximum amount of worry and concern, a tactic most likely to work on the weak and vulnerable. Used to pressurize the testee into buying expensive courses. Read also Chris Owen's excellent analysis of The Personality Test which shows why the claims above are true.

This is a transcript of the actual test used in Scientology:

TAKE THIS FREE PERSONALITY ANALYSIS and discover things about yourself that can help you gain a happier life. What are your strong points? What are the problem areas that are denying you achieving your goals? FOLLOW THESE INSTRUCTIONS: Answer each question as to how you feel RIGHT NOW.

A. Indicate your answers to the right in the spaces provided for each question. Please use pencil. B. Make sure you understand each question: read it as many times as necessary, Please answer every question. You can give your opinion if you are uncertain about the answers. C. Do not stay too long with one question Answer it as soon as you,understand it and go on to the next question. D. When an answer would be different it one considered th past rather than the present, answer as of the present. E. You have the choice of three columns in which to mark your answer: See the example box at left on how to answer each question, F. Your answer to the question is indicated by making a heavy mark within one of the spaces provided. If you should erase, be sure it is completely erased and the other answer is heavy enough so that there will be no difficulty in distinguishing your answer. G. Enter your name, address, etc., in the spaces provided. Now start with question number one and proceed to indicate your answers.

by Anonymousreply 38206/21/2013

"START HERE [each question has a YES/MAYBE/NO box]

Do you make thoughtless remarks or accusations which later you regret? When others are getting rallied, do you remain fairly composed? Do you browse through railway timetables, directories, or dictionaries just for pleasure? When asked to make a decision, would you be swayed by your like or dislike of the personality involved? Do you intend two or less children in your family even though your health and income will permit more? Do you get occasional twitches of your muscles, when there is no logical reason for it? Would you prefer to be in a position where you did not have the responsibilities of making decisions? Are your actions considered unpredictable by other people? Do you consider more money should be spent on social security? Do other people interest you very much? Is your voice monotonous, rather than varied in pitch? Do you normally let the other person start the conversation? Are you readily interested in other people's conversations? Would the idea of inflicting pain on game, small animals or fish prevent you from hunting or fishing? Are you often impulsive in your behavior? Do you speak slowly? Are you usually concerned about the need to protect your health? Does an unexpected action cause your muscles to twitch? Are you normally considerate in your demands on your employees, relatives, or pupils? Do you consider that you could give a valid 'snao judgment ? Do your past failures still worry you? Do you find yourself being extra-active for periods lasting several days? Do you resent the efforts of others to tell you what to do? Is it normaly hard for you to 'own up and take the blame'? Do you have a small circle of close friends, rather than a large number of friends, speaking acquantances? Is your life a constant struggle for survival? Do you often sing or whistle just for the fun of it? Are you considered warm-hearted by your friends? Would you rather give orders than take them? Do you enjoy telling people the latest scandal about your associates? Could you agree, to strict discipline ? Would the idea of making a complete new start cause you much concern? Do you make efforts to get others to laugh and smile? Do you find it easy to express your emotions? Do you refrain from complaining when the other person is late for an appointment? Are you sometimes considered by others a "spoilsport"? Do you consider there are other people who are definitely unfriendly toward you and work against you? Would you admit you were wrong just to "keep the peace"? Do you have only a few people of whom you are really tend Are you rarely happy, unless you have a special reason? Do you "circulate around" at a social gathering? Do you take reasonable precaution to prevent accidents? Does the idea of talking in front of people make you nervous? If you saw an article in a shop obviously mistakenly marked lower than its correct price, would you try to get it at that price? Do you often feel that people are looking at you or talking about you behind your back? Are you 'always getting into trouble'? Have you any particular hate or fear? Do you prefer to be an onlooker rather than participate in any active sport? Do you find it easy to be impartial? Have you a definitely set standard of courteous behavior in front of other members of your family? Can you start the "ball rolling" at a social gathering? Would you "buy on credit" with the hope that you can keep up the payments? Do you get an after-reaction when something unexpected such as an accident or other disturbing incident takes place? Do you consider the good of all concerned rather than your own personal advantages? When hearing a lecturer, do you sometimes experience the idea that the speaker is referring entirely to you? Does 'external noise' rarely intertere with your concentration? Are you usually "up-to-date" on everyday affairs? Can you confidently plan and work towards carrying out an event in six months time? Do you consider the modern "prisons without bars" system doomed to failure? Do you tend to be careless?"

by Anonymousreply 38306/21/2013

And the thing about the "free" personality test is that no matter what the result, they always find "ruins" (problems) that can only be fixed by buying Scientology services. They even have internal guidebooks on how to identify and sell them:

by Anonymousreply 38406/21/2013

r381 is right and that is why REVOLTA is still with them VOLUNTARILY. He's not some poor schlub, he is an active participant in the scam!

by Anonymousreply 38506/21/2013

[quote]On March 28, 2008 Kaja Ballo took the personality test run by the Church of Scientology, and subsequently committed suicide. Family and friends stated that Ballo was happy prior to taking the test, and that her mood dramatically shifted after receiving the results. She committed suicide hours after getting the results of the test back; Ballo jumped from the fourth floor of her dorm room. In addition to a note, her family found the Scientology personality test among her belongings.

Kaja Bordevich Ballo, one of many deaths caused by the cult:

by Anonymousreply 38606/21/2013

Travolta was on Letterman last night. Did anyone watch? What's he plugging?

by Anonymousreply 38706/21/2013

Don't know, r387, but he was on Good Morning America too - I threw a house slipper at the TV then made dear old Dad change the channel.

The cult conditioning destroys people's free will - knowing that, I can't even look at their celebrity shills without feeling sick, even if the subject never comes up. If Travolta left tomorrow it'd take him years to get free of the mindfuck, and some exes never do.

by Anonymousreply 38806/21/2013

Oh God now here's a scary thought...

[quote]tTravolta said he will look after Gandolfini's family, including his teenage son, Michael, wife, Deborah Lin, and eight-month-old daughter, Liliana. "My goal is to make sure that his family is OK," Travolta said. "His little boy, I watched him grow up, and his brand new little girl. We'll just make sure they're taken care of. That’s the whole idea."

For a practicing Scientologist, "making sure they're taken care of" ALWAYS includes steering them toward "the only people who can help."

by Anonymousreply 38906/21/2013

R389, Thanks for the post but I wish these 2 threads weren't linked in this way. So sad to say it but I hope JG's kids have good legal and financial guardianship, considering the "barracudas."

by Anonymousreply 39006/21/2013

I do too, r390. A comment there reminded me of this (at the risk of exciting the you-know-who troll!):

[quote]Not to be cynical but when Heath Ledger died Travolta made the rounds saying how sad he was having fell in love with Ledger "as an actor" and informing everyone that he (Travolta) was one of Ledger's idols. A bold statement to make. And now he was supposedly Gandolfini's inspiration? Even if both statements are true, what kind of ego must he have to make the story of the deaths about him. Why did he need to make those statements?

Because he needed the PR, and when the family contacted him he could offer them "help", that's why. Unlike Tom Cruise, Travolta is still well-liked enough that he can get away with this, and making these statements when someone dies helps maintain that. I can't wait for the day when the media asks about Scientology every time they interview their celebrities - and it will come. Until then, I make sure my friends know WHY I avoid their movies and TV shows.

by Anonymousreply 39106/21/2013

[quote]BIG FAT LIAR! KIRSTIE ALLEY is humiliated after a year-long legal battle forced her to change the weight-loss claims of her popular diet program, says a source. Court documents obtained exclusively by The ENQUIRER reveal that the former “Fat Actress” star paid out a hefty six-figure sum and quietly settled a lawsuit with a disgruntled customer who slammed Kirstie’s Organic Liaison diet products as nothing but a pricey fraud.

The red liquid 'drink' at the core of Organic Liaison's supposedly magic diet plan is L Ron Hubbard's "Cal-Mag" in disguise.

by Anonymousreply 39206/21/2013

Of course Revolta will see it as an opportunity to get either one of the wives (ex or recent) into the cult. Bonus with the new wife is that she's Asian & would be a HUGE boon to the clams.

by Anonymousreply 39306/21/2013

R261 - here is quote from OP about the book: "There is a strong implication that the church used his homosexuality to blackmail him in staying in after a time when he sort of drifted away from the church."

Strong implication?

Hardly an endorsement of the blackmail theory - which as many have pointed out flies in the face of the facts.

Even if Travolta is portrayed as a "nice guy" - that doesn't change the fact he is a voluntary member with no credible reasons being provided for why he stays other than he wants to stay.

There is no reason to think he is any more or less of a victim than other members like TC.

by Anonymousreply 39406/21/2013

R392, Glad Kirstie Alley lost this lawsuit and hope she was really humiliated. I'm sick of celebs pushing phony diet gimmicks. It's even worse that this was really L. Ron's scam in disguise.

by Anonymousreply 39506/21/2013

Scientologists push Hubbard's quack cures for all kinds of things - Narconon is just the dangerous "purification rundown" in a rehab-labeled wrapping. Lots of Scientologists run diet, supplement and other 'healthy' alternative companies - there's even a cult business frontgroup, WISE, that helps them do it (and demands a cut, of course.)

Best of all, it wasn't even his idea - like so much else he cobbled together to make up Scientology, he stole it from another quack:

[quote]Over the next couple of pages, Hubbard recommends a gruesome concoction dubbed "Cal-Mag", a mixture of vegetable oil, vinegar, calcium, and magnesium which he claims to have developed in 1973. Its aim is supposedly to "handle and prevent deficiencies", "help rebuild cellular structure", "keep the nerved smoothed out" and "help prevent sore muscles". In fact, Cal-Mag was the invention in 1954 of Adelle Davis, in a book entitled Let's Eat Right To Keep Fit which has deservedly acquired a degree of notoriety for its numerous scientific errors (on average, about one per page). Davis was a hugely successful "food faddist" who claimed to be able to stave off cancer by drinking large quantities of calcium-rich milk; fate showed its sense of morbid humour when she died of cancer in 1974....Hubbard was certainly well aware of her - in HCO Bulletin of 7 March 1980, "Diets, Comments Upon", he declared that "The most useful published, popular compilations on the subject of diets and biochemistry to date were done by the late Adelle Davis in her four books

by Anonymousreply 39606/21/2013

T394 If you are going to comment on what is in the book, it may help if you actually read it.

by Anonymousreply 39706/21/2013

Wright appears much more sympathetic to Travolta than to TC or even to Kirstie Allie. I wonder why.

by Anonymousreply 39806/21/2013

R398 Part of it may be because of the whole business on how both he and Spanky were sort of used and exploited by the cult. Besides, the way Cruise benefits from the free/forced labor and gets all these over the top perks does not help.

by Anonymousreply 39906/21/2013

Wright never discusses the relationship between Misscabbage and Travolta, if there is one. By contrast the cult leader has convinced TC that he's the 2nd most important man in the religion and in the universe. He keeps giving him those tacky over-sized medals with the silly, made up names.

If I didn't know better, I'd think that DM was striving to cast TC to star in a real life version of the "hero" he plays in his movies. Or have they all really mixed up sick fantasy with reality?

by Anonymousreply 40006/21/2013

I just know that they are damn sick and people need to start telling them. And our law enforcement needs to start cracking down on them...just as they cracked down on the Mormon Church.

by Anonymousreply 40106/21/2013

You're right R400, there does not appear to be much of a relationship between Travolta and Miscavige. Most of the material on Travolta concentrates on his early years in the cult which predate Miscavige's assent. By the time Miscavige took over in 1986, Travolta's star was beginning to fade, so he was really not of much use to them. Cruise on the other hand was just to rise (Top Gun came out the same year). Plus, Cruise was far easier to manipulate.

by Anonymousreply 40206/22/2013

Remember when Tom Cruise was saving people from burning cars and drowning like every weekend for a month? I always wondered if that was completely staged or just made up. It was when his sister startes handling his PR.

by Anonymousreply 40306/22/2013

I'm still a few pages back but from what I have seen, time and time again, there are those that say that Travolta can't be being blackmailed, that he is in it because he wants to be. Have you given any thought to the possibility that he's done something/s illegal? That perhaps, he feels guilty (and very well may be) about his sons death? That his wife is totally enthralled with the so-called church? His children are too? That's a heavy shit-load of reasons why he can't get out. About psycho Cruise too? I bet they have so much shit on them both. That's the way they roll. I guarantee that they, along with the other noted celeb scibots, have major psychological problems. That's what they feed on. Maggots.

by Anonymousreply 40406/22/2013

R404 Write spends a lot of time explaining how brainwashing works and how using a systematic method, one can break down others to get them to do almost anything. If they can exert the control needed to get people to cut off their families, live in concentrate camp like conditions and work 12 hour days doing hard labor, they certainly can convince a celebrity to go along with their game. The people who are saying Travolta can leave any time he wants have not read the book, and quite honestly, as such should not be posting here at the topic of this thread is the book. I feel as the OP of this thread* I have a right to say that.

*I started this thread at work, where obviously I am not at now, so that's why troll-dar wont confirm this.

by Anonymousreply 40506/22/2013

R405 That's exactly what I'm talking about. It makes me sick when I read totally ignorant responses from those who have never even looked into the atrocities of scientology. What kills me is rampant abuse of the children. Mentally, physically and sexually. What I want to know is who is being paid off to look the other way. That's where the real crime lies. It never ceases to amaze me how most people haven't a clue.

by Anonymousreply 40606/22/2013

By the way, I paid my $18 or whatever just to voice my opinion here. I don't give a shit about the money, and I don't like giving my credit card out. That's how much this means to me. I can't stand reading how some of you are so oblivious to the harm that the Scibots have caused. The unending wrath that they still traumatize. It's unbelievable to me how so many still don't know, can't grasp the veracity, of how the scibots deliberately shame/get info from those they know they can get the most dirt from. You think they're stupid? Nope. But then there's the children. That's what kills me. Me must do something. I'm positive that the IRS is paid off. I'm also sure it goes much higher than that.

by Anonymousreply 40706/22/2013

Damn, I wish we had he option to correct. Whatever

by Anonymousreply 40806/22/2013

I bumped up this thread after reading the book. Even worse than the fundies covered on DL, is the free reign given to pedos and the abuse of cult members' kids. That's why I feel we should discuss both the book and the reasons Wright literally risked his life to reveal the truth.

by Anonymousreply 40906/22/2013

[quote]. In some ways Scientology practices make the mob look like the Boy Scouts.

I mentioned this in the Tom Cruise thread. I'd take the mob over Co$ any day. At least the mob takes care of its own.

by Anonymousreply 41006/22/2013

[quote]Me must do something.

Straight me?

by Anonymousreply 41106/22/2013

I'm not motivated to re-read the thread and look for the posts, yet it seems that some posters believe that Travolta has more goodwill with the general public than Cruise, and as such, more deserving of being treated more sympathetically. Why? They're both creepy (yes, I know the word is juvenile, yet fitting).

by Anonymousreply 41206/22/2013

I'm not defending Travolta, but I find him a tad more likable and less freakish than Cruise and some of the other Scieno celebs.

by Anonymousreply 41306/22/2013

Travolta called Gandolfini's family to offer support. Now that's one call I'd let go to voice mail

by Anonymousreply 41406/22/2013

On some anti-Scientology website I read that Cruise has only been to one scientology related event since Katie dumped him, whereas as we see, the Jett Travolta Foundation has been giving tons of money to Scientology-related organizations.

by Anonymousreply 41506/22/2013

If TC bailed, that would completely shake the entire planet. He could be a global egomaniac again, because people would respect him

by Anonymousreply 41606/22/2013

Interesting about Cruise. I still think he's co-Queen of the Clams no matter what.He's also keeping a low profile after the Katie debacle and the relative movie bombs.

by Anonymousreply 41706/22/2013

R412 Its because of how its all presented in the book. Its pretty much laid out that they got him to confess to not only being gay, but to go into great detail about his sex life. His fear that those details would be released is what keeps him in. Also, we see how they managed to get their hooks in him at a very vulnerable time. The death of his mother which was only a short time after Diana Hyland died all set against the backdrop of his insanely meteoric rise to fame created a disastrous situation. Cruise on the other hand comes off as REALLY horrible. Its pretty clear a big part of what keeps Cruise in there is the perks and ego stroking the church provides for him. It boils down to this: One person stays in and pays them lip service because he fears they will reveal embarrassing things about his past. They other stays in because he is hooked on the custom motorcycles, airplanes, luxury houses and constant ass kissing they give him.

by Anonymousreply 41806/22/2013

This will make one hell of a miniseries

by Anonymousreply 41906/22/2013

R419, Why must we wait until 2030 for the miniseries? I've already said it's ironic there's been a concurrent DL thread on horror movies; Scientology is the ultimate true life version.

R418, Totally agree except there must be more than emotional dependence and vulnerability in Travolta's symbiosis with the Scienos.

by Anonymousreply 42006/22/2013

There's no way a miniseries would be made now. There's a lot of closet COS members in LA/"The Industry". Still. Going public is relatively rare.

by Anonymousreply 42106/22/2013

[quote] there must be more than emotional dependence and vulnerability in Travolta's symbiosis with the Scienos.

There very well maybe. Travolta does not occupy that much of the book. He really only figures in relationship to the story about Spanky, a girl who Travolta became very attached to.

One other thing I forgot to add. There doesnt seem to be much of a relationship between Travolta and Miscavige, who is the real villain of the book. Cruise however is attached at Miscavige's hip. That contributes a lot to why Cruise comes off so terrible.

by Anonymousreply 42206/22/2013

I prefer the Mafia too. They're not trying to take over the world:

[quote]"You want to know what happens when you clear everybody in that neighbourhood, the only thing that [Scientology] center can become used for is a political center. Because by the time you've done all this, you are the government...Once the world is Clear - a nation, a state, a city or a village - the Scientology organization in the area becomes its government! And once this has taken place the only policy accepted as valid is Scientology policy." - L Ron Hubbard, "Future Org Trends" lecture, January 9th 1962

...or in exterminating a laundry list of their opposition, including SPs, psychiatrists, "sexual perverts" (gay people) and the physically disabled:

[quote]“In any event, any person from 2.0 down on the Tone Scale should not have, in any thinking society, any civil rights of any kind...There are only two answers for the handling of people from 2.0 down on the Tone Scale, neither one of which has anything to do with reasoning with them or listening to their justification of their acts. The first is to raise them on the Tone Scale by un-enturbulating some of their theta by any one of the three valid processes. The other is to dispose of them quietly and without sorrow...The sudden and abrupt deletion of all individuals occupying the lower bands of the Tone Scale from the social order would result in an almost instant rise in the cultural tone and would interrupt the dwindling spiral into which any society may have entered." - L. Ron Hubbard, SCIENCE OF SURVIVAL

by Anonymousreply 42306/22/2013

IMO people just generally like Travolta better than they do Cruise. That's certainly true among folks working against Scientology - anons, for instance, have often said they'd support Travolta to the max if he blew the cult and came out, but to a man/woman they'd be happy to see Cruise DIAF. Travolta has mingled more with the rank-and-file Scientologists, too, so lots of exes have little stories about how friendly he is, how much he cares for his children, etc. Friendliness seems to be rare enough among Scientologists that it stands out. Cruise has never mingled much with the rest of them - he seems to sweep through with a phalanx of guards into cleared-out elevators and hallways on his way to private rooms to meet Miscavige.

I don't think it's a coincidence that Cruise's famous video rant turned out to be about the cult's KSW policy. He fully intends to win or die, and that weird rictus grin that makes people vaguely uneasy is pure 'tone 40 intention':

[quote]"When somebody enrols, consider he or she has joined up for the duration of the universe - never permit an ‘open-minded’ approach... If they enrolled, they’re aboard, and if they’re aboard they’re here on the same terms as the rest of us - win or die in the attempt. Never let them be half minded about being Scientologists... When Mrs. Pattycake comes to us to be taught, turn that wandering doubt in her eye into a fixed, dedicated glare… The proper instruction attitude is, ‘We'd rather have you dead than incapable.’" - L. Ron Hubbard, KEEPING SCIENTOLOGY WORKING, 7 February 1965, reissued 27 August 1980

Travolta lacks that off-putting grimace - he comes across as much more human. He's lost a child (albeit to cult-driven denial and medical neglect) and was horrified when he encountered the RPF, the Sea Org's prison camp. There's another incident besides the Spanky story Wright tells - I'll try to find it if anyone's interested.

That said, they're both in up to their necks, and until they reject it unreservedly and burn their bridges in public, they both deserve to wear the Scientology stigma around their necks like the rotting dead albatross it is.

by Anonymousreply 42406/22/2013

Thank you R424. Its been a while since I read the book and precisely recalling different incidents to explain in my earlier posts the difference between Cruise and Travolta. I'm now remembering how when Cruise would show up at Gold Base and they would have people lining the walkways and halls, dressed in uniforms and standing at attention for him. Its like the Pope just rolled into town.

by Anonymousreply 42506/22/2013

R421 is right. A miniseries will not happen because of the closet COS members who work behind and in front of the camera. I also get the feeling that the Scientology Celebrity blog is going to out some celebrities as Scienos. There are several C list types who hang out with the Mastersons, Ribisis, Juliette Lewis, etc who haven't been confirmed as Scienos by Operation Clambake and other anti-Scieno groups.

by Anonymousreply 42606/22/2013

[quote]closet COS members who work behind and in front of the camera.

I dont know how many of those exist and how powerful they are. Certainly not enough to prevent Comedy Central from airing the South Park episode. Besides, one could be produced in another country where such a cabal does not exist.

by Anonymousreply 42706/22/2013

A miniseries also wouldn't happen because too many Americans are skittish about criticizing anything that calls itself a religion, even when it commits criminal acts. Maybe someday, but not yet. Until then, I say hang it around their necks, ALL of them.

Another big difference - although they both get any auditing in private at home, Cruise has been seen far more often at Gold Base, which is Sea Org only. There are no facilities there for Scientology publics, who often don't even know it exists if they don't have family or friends in the Sea Org. Travolta has been there, but not in a long time that any escapees have reported - he's mostly seen among the public Scientologists at the Fort Harrison (Fort Homicide!) in Clearwater. Cruise has actually talked about JOINING the Sea Org, according to exes, but was talked out of it because he's more valuable to the cult where he is now.

Travolta is OT 5 where Cruise is OT 7, two big and expensive levels deeper into the mindfuck. (Kelly Preston is at least OT 6, and she's done that since she married JT.) They've both done the Ls, which are a mindfuck all their own.

Cruise is said to want to do OT 8, the highest current level - wonder why Miscavige hasn't approved him to go to the Freewinds (aka Failwinds, Fleawinds, the Failboat) and learn that "now I know who I am not, and am interested in finding out who I am" and "Source (Hubbard) is the eighth dynamic (God)"?

Reading that just saved you 300K, your free will and your sanity! OT 3s and higher have learned the Xenu story, and believe that if the rest of us read it we'll die of pneumonia. I read it aloud on the sidewalk in front of the org more than once and I'm still here, and Wright's readers haven't died yet either.

by Anonymousreply 42806/23/2013

Sea Org defector Jesse Prince on celebrities, in interviews with Lawrence Wollersheim in 1998:

J: Certain celebrities pretty much had carte blanc in the best Scientology facilities.

L: Name a few names

J: I'll give specific examples. John Travolta would actually have auditors sent to his home to audit him for free. Rick Sheehee was one of them, Chris Sillcock was another one. Just flown all over at Scientology's expense, just to maintain some control with him. John Travolta specifically would have these instances where he'd want nothing else to do with it, just leave me alone. L So he tried to get out of Scientology?

J: Many times. Then, here we come with the freebies. The this, the that, the other thing.

L: They would send the auditors to his home, fly the auditors around the world, and the purpose was to maintain...

J: Good relationships with the person.

L: ...control over John Travolta. Did you ever hear anyone discuss "we need to send these auditors to keep control of John Travolta?"

J: Yes.

L: Who said that?

J: David Miscavige, Norman Starkey.

L: Any other celebrities that they sent auditors to their homes, or flew them...

J: Special treatment, yes, Tom Cruise. Now he came up and did all of his, I mean I've never seen a guy progress so quickly through the Scientology "levels". Tom Cruise went from nothing to Clear to OT to NOTs damn near in a season, like in the fall. I know because I personally sat down and did e-meter drills with him so that he could learn the solo art. I did solo drills with him, so that he could do that. When I first met him he was nothing.

L: Do you feel he did it...

J: I'm not done, let me finish. So then, now, even beyond him just being there, Lyman Spurlock arranged his entire divorce from Mimi Rogers for no charge, did all of his finances.

L: Scientology helped arrange the divorce from Mimi Rogers.

J: And did the settlement, yes. And the settlement, I think she got $10 million.

L: $10 million.

J: And then they took Tom Cruise...

L: Was Mimi Rogers a member of Scientology at the time?

J: She was said to be a "disaffected Scientologist." In other words she wasn't really having anything to do with Scientology.

L: There was no attorneys involved, was this just strictly Marty? Who arranged the divorce?

J: Lyman Spurlock. Lyman Spurlock did the.... David Miscavige was very instrumental in the divorce.

L: When you say he was instrumental, what do you think he did?

J: Basically told Tom Cruise, spoke to him and pointed out his deficiencies, like, your finances are totally under control, you are dyslectic, you're having a hard time reading things, there are certain things you're having a hard time with. We can help you. You just have to go along and do what we tell you.

L: Tom Cruise is dyslectic?

J: Yeah.

L: He has a hard time reading?

J: You know, transposing words.

L: They told Tom Cruise, just do what we tell you.

J: Pretty much, you're in good hands, we have all this experience, Lyman has corporate experience, he's a certified public accountant. He sat down and sat down and did all the audit and the books for Tom Cruises' finances. Then...

L: So they got all of Tom Cruise's finances, complete knowledge of this guy's life.

J: Everything, complete knowledge. This is what tops it off. He now likes this Nicole Kidman, and he has a fantasy of just running through a field of tall grass with Nicole Kidman. What happens is they bring up to the Gilman Hot Springs location and the have had people in Golden Era Productions for weeks staying up overnight, just extended schedules, de-rocking, plowing a field, planting tall wheat grass that will grow, and when Nicole Kidman came, here's a field, now they're running through the damn field of grass. It took weeks.

(Cruise had dreamed of a field of wildflowers, but the rains washed those out after the RPF nearly killed themselves putting it in, so he had to settle for grass. Miscavige was reportedly livid.)

by Anonymousreply 42906/23/2013

[quote]A miniseries also wouldn't happen because too many Americans are skittish about criticizing anything that calls itself a religion

Again, who says Americans have to be the ones to produce it? The British are perfectly capable of producing miniseries'. The issue is who in America would air it? The cult is so litigious, its not hard to see why no network would touch it.

[quote]wonder why Miscavige hasn't approved him to go to the Freewinds

My guess is money. They can keep soaking Cruise, dangling that carrot before him, getting him to open his wallet again and again. But there will come a day when Cruise's star no longer burns as bright as it does now (in fact, that may have already begun). The day Tom Cruise has to admit he is no longer the number one mega star he thinks he is, well, that is going to be a bad day. He will then be willing to turn over everything he has, every cent he owns to achieve that goal.

by Anonymousreply 43006/23/2013

The clams will inevitably have a new messiah and Cruise will not be it. Once they move one, what will an empty shell of a person do?

by Anonymousreply 43106/23/2013

Jesse Prince on Lisa Marie and Michael Jackson:

L: Were there any other divorces that Scientology was involved in, or breaking up celebrity couples, or matching celebrity couples. Did you ever hear of anything?

J: Lisa Marie. When she started in with Michael Jackson. David Miscavige just had an insane fascination for Michael Jackson. The whole crew had to listen to his music. We would have special showings, make sure you watch the Thriller video.

L: The whole staff would have to watch Michael Jackson movies? Was this before Michael Jackson got an audit?

J: This was while all of this was going on. David would proudly announce how we just almost got Michael Jackson, we're doing everything that we can, and Lisa Marie, and. I guess it didn't work out.

L: Do you know anything about the details of what happened?

J: I'll tell you what I do know. They had a good relationship, however, with Jackson's people, to the point where L. Ron Hubbard Battlefield Earth album was coming out and the executive producer of the Thriller album was a man named Bruce Swadine. He agreed to come out, based on the relationship that existed with Michael Jackson and Lisa to come out and work on the Battlefield Earth album. They shot themselves in the foot on that part, because Bruce Swadine's wife came in with him, I guess he didn't want to be alone, he had allocated a certain amount of days to work on this Battlefield project for them, and his wife wore cologne, perfume. She came into their magnificently elaborate studio wearing that cologne, and you know, no one at that base is allowed to wear any form of fragrance. The one person who was told, I forget her name, a little blonde girl, she was told to speak to his wife about her smelling, and she actually went to Bruce Swadine's wife and said that cologne you are wearing is irritating, it's stinking up the whole place. She was rough. She just had a fit, ran to Bruce and told him, and they left that day. He was like, "what kind of people are you? You people are nuts." The girl's name was Marilyn somebody. She ended up having to do conditions forever. That just blew it. She was told.

L: That blew the Michael Jackson deal?

J: Completely. I mean I know you didn't hear much about Michael Jackson after that.

L: Did he get any auditing?

J: I think he may have got something, I don't know personally, he might have gotten a little bit of something.

L: Do you think that there was anything suggested by the church that if Lisa Marie got him into Scientology, that she would be a special star, that she would obtain, be considered a very important person if she got him into Scientology?

J: I can't really say that. I don't have knowledge. I do have knowledge that she got as much free auditing as she wanted.

L: While she was working on Michael Jackson.

J: Right, prior to their marriage. She was married to someone... She was married to someone earlier, some guy that was a Scientologist, a Sea Org member, and she became infatuated with Michael Jackson, at which point that marriage ended. You asked me about divorces, the divorce between her and that fella that she was with was monitored and gotten done very quickly.

L: Do you think it was done to assist her to try to recruit Michael Jackson.

J: Yes. Lose this guy you're with.

L: Orders went to this Sea Org member.

J: The CO of CC, what was her name, Karen Hounder. I forget the name. It was her job to specifically handle Lisa Marie. I had an auditor who was auditing her, that went and audited her mother, and decided to get into a sexual relationship with Priscilla and ended up having to be... It was just a mess. Priscilla Presley, this is another one I would send out to Memphis, wherever she was, on a movie set, to just give her auditing for free.

by Anonymousreply 43206/23/2013

Sounds as if what Travolta and others really needed was a professional life coach, and Scienos pretended to fill that need. Many talented people, especially those that achieve success at a relatively young age, are unevenly skilled.

by Anonymousreply 43306/23/2013

For the unaware, Scienos still duplicate whatever L. Ron did or wanted. That's why there's a barrier against wearing cologne but a common practice of smoking. Many Scienos die prematurely of cancer. Of course their environment is toxic in many different ways.

by Anonymousreply 43406/23/2013

I saw a couple of CO$ members in LA, faded actor wannabe types, handing off a pamphlet to a clerk behind a plexiglass barrier, acting like they were successful winners and the clerk could be too - in the line to get EBT/food stamps.

by Anonymousreply 43506/23/2013

[quote]Sounds as if what Travolta and others really needed was a professional life coach, and Scienos pretended to fill that need.

That certainly seems to be what is presented in the book. They get young people who have issues with insecurity and self worth as well as non-conformists. What they offer is presented as a way for them to get in better touch with their inner self which would help them in their craft as an actor. That it is a great place to network and make connections to further their career is another draw.

by Anonymousreply 43606/23/2013

Could the cancer deaths be caused by their overuse of niacin? I had a chiropractor shill some niacin shit you mixed with oj and drank. It seemed to work but then I read up on it and it said not to drink any alcohol with it so I looked that up and it seems as if too much niacin is very bad for your liver.

by Anonymousreply 43706/23/2013

R437 I have read some similar theories about the niacin use on several anti-Scieno sites.

by Anonymousreply 43806/23/2013

R437, R438, Over consumption of vitamins, without a doctor's consultation, is never advisable, especially if you aren't aware of any underlying conditions. Ironic that L. Ron just copied the popular, for the time, quack Adele Davis's recommendations. Davis herself died of cancer which she conveniently blamed on getting too many X-rays verifying her health status.

Actually Scienos have not updated any of their medical advice to line up with today's knowledge. They still blame psychiatrists for "evils" practiced in generations prior. Or is it that L. Ron was really severely mentally ill and angry at being diagnosed as such?

by Anonymousreply 43906/23/2013

We need to talk about Neil Gaiman here, they've been talking about him a lot on WWP boards.

My theory on him is that he's only slightly connected, as well as his clam wife, the talentless Amanda Palmer. Amanda protests way too much, I think she's much more of a clam than Neil is.

by Anonymousreply 44006/23/2013

Just finished reading "Going Clear" and am now convinced Miscavige killed his wife. Probably killed plenty of others too. He's a psycho and he was born a psycho.

by Anonymousreply 44106/23/2013

What? Amanda Fucking Palmer is in this cult!?! Damn. That sucks because I really like the Dresden Dolls. Granted my love for them has more to do with Brian Viglione than her, but still...

by Anonymousreply 44206/23/2013

OK I did a little snooping around and found Palmer is NOT in the cult. Her husband was born into it and his father seems to have been a big cheese with them, but Gaiman keeps them at arms distance.

[quote] I almost find it flattering that anyone would think I’m secretly a Scientologist, because I would have to be such a good liar.

by Anonymousreply 44306/23/2013

Gaiman's family was heavily involved in the Clam Scam.I'm very surprised that he's trying to distance himself from it all.He has no reason to. Even still I'm suspicious that he's involved somehow.

by Anonymousreply 44406/23/2013

R444 He wouldn't be the first person who has rejected the "faith" he was born into.

by Anonymousreply 44506/23/2013

Between a bajillion whacked-out points of 'doctrine', the Admissions, his letters to the Navy and Steve 'Sarge' Pfauth's story at the end of Going Clear? I'm going with "severely mentally ill."

R437, that chiropractor might have been a Scientologist. Hubbard threw excessively unhealthy doses of niacin at everything, and that weird Cal-Mag concoction at the rest. The "Purification Rundown" is, in a nutshell, 5000mg of niacin (that's 300+ times RDA), a swat of Cal-mag and a half cup of vegetable oil followed by 4-6 hours in a HOT sauna and sweat-inducing exercise (treadmill or stationary bike.) Every day. For two to four weeks! They believe this removes residues of drugs that don't even LEAVE residues, and even that it flushes out traces of radiation, from the body. People have died doing this both in Narconon/Pur Cleanse and inside the cult. Remember when Katie Holmes had those weird purplish marks on her hands and arms, and looked deathly ill? Some of the exes remember those same marks from their own 'Purif.'

I don't quite believe Neil Gaiman either. Tony Ortega wrote up his cult background pretty thoroughly in a post this week, NSFW for Amanda Palmer's 'smurftits':

by Anonymousreply 44606/23/2013

So how come the FDA hasn't stepped up and placed warning labels on the Pur Cleanse garbage?

by Anonymousreply 44706/23/2013

R447, probably because it is a "dietary supplement" and not a drug. The Herb and vitamin industry is pretty much unregulated.

by Anonymousreply 44806/23/2013

R448, True but when people die after taking a dietary aid, warning labels are required.

by Anonymousreply 44906/23/2013

Let's not allow the FDA to put warning labels on supplements due to the crazed overdosing of a bunch of cult members, R449

by Anonymousreply 45006/23/2013

Thanks, R358, I found the story I just couldn't find the video.

Now I'm wondering if I conflated it with another video. Was there ever a video of Scienos on the street, maybe outside a center, screaming the same things at some protesters?

It's a bizarre and creepy response, whether there is video of it or not.

by Anonymousreply 45106/24/2013

R450, I was speaking of the warning labels on Ephedra after just a few people died. Many more have expired after the over priced Pur Cleanse. This is not the same thing as regulating vitamins.

by Anonymousreply 45206/24/2013

There are few of videos of Scienos with the whole "What are your crimes?" rants. In this one, Scienos are yelling "what are your crimes?" to well known ex Scieno Tory Christman at the Lisa McPherson trust.

by Anonymousreply 45306/24/2013

Yikes. I'd never seen the one at the McPherson trust. It's not the one I remember but now I'm wondering if it ever existed or if I've mixed it up with another Scieno freak out video.

It was outside, on the street. There were protesters or demonstrators. The Scienos began with the usual crowding, over-talking, etc. Eventually it got to "what are your crimes" and "have you raped a baby" and all that shit. It was crazy.

Anyway, thanks for trying but it doesn't matter if I never find that video. I've known the Scienos were fucked up ever since they tried to get my sister and I to take a "personality test" and then asked us if we had bank accounts. We were told to bring back our bank books (there were bank books in those days) and take our first class. Fucking scammers - they had no shame about trying to hustle teenagers.

by Anonymousreply 45406/24/2013

r442 r443 read WWP, Amanda is still in, that's how her kickstarter got $1 million in less than 24 hours. Cult members gave her the money. You think she could have gotten that money by herself? No.

The cult is giving Neil and Amanda a long rope but according to they're both still in, still members, still giving money.

Neil lives in MN now near his kids and his ex-w & children who is in the cult. Neil and Mary Gaiman gave $500,000 to the MN cult in 2010!

Neil's kids are being raised in it, Neil's mother is making millions selling super vitamins in it.

Neil can deny it and so can Amanda. BTW, on WWP, when WWP found out that Neil is "going offline for 6 months" the speculation is that it's because he was told to, by the clams.

They are nefarious, they are evil, and Neil might say "no", Amanda might say "no" but they're still IN.

by Anonymousreply 45506/24/2013

R453 is the crazy one yelling at Tory, Mary DeMoss? There's another vid on YouTube of Mary harassing Tory in the street at some other protest. Psycho city! Hilariously, Mary has since left the cult as well. Don't know if that's changed her into a normal person or not, because she displays some real crazy in all of the videos I've seen of her.

Someone upthread linked to Tory's channel and I watched a bunch of her videos. She's very funny and sweet. But when she talks about her husband, it's quite sad. She said that on their wedding day, they vowed to stay friends no matter what. . .and now he won't speak to her. Apparently he grew up as a $cieno.

Interestingly, her father was an NFL hall-of-famer. She says she doesn't think that the time they targeted her because of her money, but on the other hand she also blew her entire inheritance on $cientology. I think she might be still in denial on that point.

She also apparently trained Travolta when he first joined up. She definitely a lot of stories worth listening to.

by Anonymousreply 45606/24/2013

R456 Tory's ex-husband is a second generation Scieno. There is a video of her speaking at an event several years ago. Her ex's parents knew L.Ron Hubbard. She said that her in-laws described L. Ron as a funny guy. I think many of the second generation Scienos will never leave the cult.

by Anonymousreply 45706/24/2013

[quote]Amanda is still in, that's how her kickstarter got $1 million in less than 24 hours.

Wrong. The total was reached in 30 days, not 24 hours. When the first sentence of your post contains an easily to disprove error, there really is no point in reading whatever else you have to say

by Anonymousreply 45806/24/2013

R457 Lafayette was funny as in weird! She must have be a closeted queen with all his self hating anti- homo propaganda.

As I stated before with Gaiman, I still feel he's in the cult. Does Misscabbage tell certain members to keep a low profile when the shit hits the fan? It sure seems like it. Gaiman can be a bad liar at times he's a terrible writer! Doing lowbrow garbage like Guardians Of The Galaxy is proof of that. Oh and his sale of the Angela character to Marvel.He's very much a shark when it comes to business and money that one. His family has become rich from the Clam Scam so his making money from suing people (like the Clams love to do) is not out of line.

by Anonymousreply 45906/24/2013

R459, Wright details L. Ron's dabbling in the homosex, girlfriend swapping and stealing, etc. He blamed his ex-wives for his VD caused occasional impotency. He had very serious sexual hang-ups that are reflected in the "personality test" questions.

by Anonymousreply 46006/24/2013

Wasn't the Babalon Ritual that LRon and Jack Parsons performed in the desert to conjure the Scarlet Woman essentially Jack Parsons jacking off in a trance while LRon wrote down what Parsons said...while watching?

by Anonymousreply 46106/24/2013

R461, On another thread I asked when sexual behavior crossed the line between straight sex and gay sex. I'm sure L. Ron used his extremely heavy alcohol and drug use, as well as his fascination with the "darker side," as an excuse "to experiment." Wright says that some of the girls involved clearly believed L. Ron preferred men emotionally if not physically. Likewise Misscabbages' entourage is all men.

by Anonymousreply 46206/24/2013

R458's logic is as bad as her literacy. "Easily to disprove? Using your line, bitch, why should anyone read anything else you have to say?

Braying the the difference between 30 days and 24 hours proves that a premise is incorrect is posturing. It's not arguing successfully.

by Anonymousreply 46306/24/2013

R463 Of course, when one cant defend the claim that the money was raised in 24 hours, this is the best you can do. Still, it doesn't change the facts. Nice try, but insults really dont work when your whole premise falls apart.

by Anonymousreply 46406/24/2013

R461 According to some Ufologists, Lafayette and Parsons opened up a portal to another dimension in that ritual. In other words. I remember reading that Crowley was involved somehow wasn't he?The Roswell Grays supposedly came through that portal. I don't believe in all of that BUT it seems like Lafayette The Closet Queen left that out of his little made up cult.

by Anonymousreply 46506/24/2013

R465, What is a "portal to another dimension? It sounds like mumbo-jumbo. "Roswell Grays?"

L. Ron was trying to copy Crowley whom he admired. After reading all of his works, he even wrote him claiming to duplicate his efforts. Crowley thought he was insane too.

US Military have always tried to convince the world that alien visits from outer space occur. It "explains" futuristic military experiments over the open dessert in places like Area 51 and Roswell.

by Anonymousreply 46606/24/2013

When LRon and Parsons returned to Pasadena, a scarlet haired woman was waiting for them at the front door of Parson's mansion, artist Marjorie Cameron, whom Parsons married. Cameron saw through Hubbard immediately.

by Anonymousreply 46706/24/2013

R466 It refers to the Roswell incident in the late Fourties where there was a UFO crash in New Mexico. Some of the UFO people claim that Lafayette the closet queen and Parsons in their ceremony in the desert opened up an inter-dimensional portal. I didn't say that I believed it BTW.....It actually sounds like some horsehit Lafayette cooked up.

R467 A lot of people didn't fall for his BS. Harlan Ellison claims he was there when Lafayette came up with the idea for the Clam scam.It's so obvious that it's made up bullshit it's not even funny.

by Anonymousreply 46806/24/2013

R468, Here's a follow-up link on Ellison commenting on the Clam scam.

Thanks for the explanation on the inter-dimensional portal. Looks like L. Ron taking credit again for something that had nothing to do with his efforts.

Has there ever been any proof that the supposed UFO crash wasn't related to US Military developments? Any proof of dead alien bodies existing anywhere?

by Anonymousreply 46906/24/2013

Does anyone else suspect that being hooked up to the E-Meter and "audited" involves a form of hypnotism? Maybe this is how suckers get trapped so easily. Creatives and artists are said to be more easily hypnotized than the rest of the population.

Hypnotism is one of the main innovations L. Ron stole from Crowley. What nefarious purposes did Crowley use it for that L. Ron copied, besides sexual seduction?

by Anonymousreply 47006/24/2013

Does anyone recall the following? Seems to me they're taking gross advantage of the disenfranchised for nefarious purposes.

There were "demonstrations in LA at the so called 'Battle of Los Angeles.' Scientology was using the images and memes of the Civil Rights movement to mobilize us members against the 'threat' of Larry Wollersheim's suit. They had us singing the same songs, marching in the same way, holding candlelight vigils in the park.

They had taken this honest desire to help, to make society a better place and turned it upside down. We didn't know it, but we were being used. That inner pure desire to throw ourselves into the battle against injustice was turned with lies into obstructing justice and protecting criminals. We didn't know it, and so we sang and marched and stood witness for something false and corrupt."

" . . . they had one big march that started in South LA (largely a black area) - singing 'We Shall Overcome.' Then when some of the residents joined in, probably thinking it was a bunch of white people marching for civil rights, the "Church" touted it as a big PR win - "ooh look how everybody loves Scientology!" I was there. It was goddamned disgusting."

by Anonymousreply 47106/24/2013

r458 - oh sorry, I was wrong about the timeframe but I'm not wrong about Amanda Palmer and Scientology. She's in, up to her eyeballs.


by Anonymousreply 47206/24/2013

[quote]The Scientologists have a long history of hiding their activities behind various fronts. Neil Gaiman and Amanda Palmer are particularly adept at casting the illusion they are free agents when they are funding Scientology to the tune of half a million dollars in 2010 and continue to fund the cult. Gaiman's company G&G Vitamins is a major Scientology cash cow.

by Anonymousreply 47306/24/2013

More on the origins of Hubtards' thinking . .

". . .read Hubbard's 1940 short story titled "One Was Stubborn" where Hubbard's characters include the evil cult leader named "George Smiley", who sells the population of the future earth on Smiley's successful cult teachings which train each citizen in how to make the universe around them disappear, arriving each citizen back at essentially "Native State" abilities (in Scientology teachings) where each can then re-create the universe to their liking, as if they are now God with a capital G

Another short story about one's supposed higher mental powers, is Hubbard's "Dangerous Dimension". "One Was Stubborn" is the jackpot pulp era Hubbard story that most equates to what Hubbard later sells for the Scientology "End Phenomenon" which is "bring the universe back to Native State."

by Anonymousreply 47406/24/2013

Who is this TV celeb?

". . . a Scilon public, a “professional” preclear (someone who pays for all their auditing in the HGC instead of doing co-audit) who a few tech staff have been gossiping about. This public is a somewhat well-known TV personality who has been having a tough time getting by for years now & making her situation even worse the last few years by throwing away most of her savings she has left.

So what is all the fuss about this person that the staff are making fun of her? Because she claims to have been a 12,000 year old vampire from Atlantis in her previous life & that she was personally hunted down & “murdered” by Pope Pius XII himself in the 1950′s, who also ritually desecrated her flesh in a variety of “positions” that we’d rather not inflict upon all of you.

So as a consequence of this heinous & barbaric act committed by none other than the head of the Catholic Church, she was released from her body as a thetan & because she’d spent 12,000 years in the same body, presumably this was more than enough time for her to gain various Super-Sekret OT® powers that guaranteed immunity to implant stations on Venus . . .

You have to realize that when you’re on staff, you get exposed to some of the weirdest, wildest bullshit coming out of preclear’s that the average Joe would prolly think you’re putting him on if you told them about it. We’re talking really really wild & perverted stuff, stuff that would make even a XXX star squirm & never want to have sex with anyone ever again. And most of the staff (because we will ALL hear about it) takes this shit in stride enough to joke about it among themselves.

But this thing with this woman being a 12,000 year old vampire, apparently it was just too much.. . This woman is begging for a front page shot in the National Enquirer.

. . . after the major flap with Katie Holmes divorcing Tom Cruise, a lot of staff were talking shit about him & mocking him between themselves. They went from one day loving the Cruise to dumping on the guy as if he came down with full blown AIDS or leprosy. Seeing & hearing that shit was too surreal even for us. And again, mirrors the exact behavior of the Party members in 1984."

by Anonymousreply 47506/25/2013

R475 I think the TV celeb might be Kristen Johnston. When I was reading that, she popped into my head. There have been rumors in recent years about her having major financial troubles.

by Anonymousreply 47606/26/2013

Sadly Jessica White (gorgeous model) was going into the Scilon celebrity center in NYC, pix.

by Anonymousreply 47706/26/2013


Kristen says she isn't a Scientologist. I believe her. She is much too smart to be sucked into that cult.

by Anonymousreply 47806/26/2013

What a bunch of retards

by Anonymousreply 47906/26/2013

R469 Col Phillip Corso wrote a book about Roswell. He was part of a government program that reversed technology taken from crashed or recovered alien craft. He saw a dead alien body from Roswell.Lt Walter Haur who was public relations director at the base nearby the crash saw not only the dead alien bodies but the recovered spacecraft. The cover story was a weather balloon as are the so-called new technology they are testing. The government is using the alien technology and won't let people find out because it would be a mindfuck to their religious beliefs.

That being said all the alien stories that Ufologists spin are nothing like what Lafayette has spun. He's so off.

Jess White is a gorgeous model BUT that doesn't mean she won't be sucked in by these clams. So sad but that is what the Clam Scam does.

by Anonymousreply 48006/26/2013

R466 Col Phillip Corso was head of a program that back engineered alien spacecraft. He wrote the book The Day after Roswell. Lt Walter Haur who worked at the military base nearby the crash said that he saw alien bodies there and the craft as well. The government doesn't want the people to find out about all of this because of the technology war with other countries and how people like religious Christians and Muslims will react to all of this.

The balloon cover story was an absolute farce.First the newspaper reported they found a flying saucer then the military told them to change their story. It was more like threatened rather than told.

Jessica White is hot BUT she might not be that bright. The Clam Scam is for people who are very dim. Kirstie Alley is still going on about how straight Joan Revolta is ,isn't she? When the whole wide world know that he is a preening queen.

by Anonymousreply 48106/26/2013

R480, R481, Thanks. I'm starting a new thread on "The Day After Roswell." Please keep commenting.

by Anonymousreply 48206/26/2013

The issue is not whether or not one is "not too bright." Celebs who are emotionally needy and should be seeking out a life coach, as an idealized parent substitute, get sucked into the cult. They are targeted using high pressure sales techniques, far, far worse than those of the most controlling religious sects.

by Anonymousreply 48306/26/2013

Corso was a motherfucking LIAR. He made everything up. Shitheels like him give conspiracy and UFO buffs a bad name. Fuck that old dead bastard.

by Anonymousreply 48406/26/2013

R484, I started a new thread discussing this book. Was Corso looking for fame or notoriety?

by Anonymousreply 48506/26/2013

R484 Take your medicine. His military record pans out.among other things. All I now you are a government plant! Bad job....:)

R485 He just wanted to get the record out.

by Anonymousreply 48606/26/2013

I think it is both the dim celebs and the emotionally needy celebs who get sucked into CO$. Jason Beghe said in one of his interviews that he got sucked into CO$ during a time when he was dealing with emotional problems. Beghe seems smart. Some of the Scieno celebs do come off as dim and Kirstie Alley is the best example of the dim celeb faction.

by Anonymousreply 48706/26/2013

I always wondered if Kirstie joined to help cover up the fact that her and then husband were gay?

by Anonymousreply 48806/26/2013

R487, R488, I always wondered how Kirstie got on Cheers. One star I personally dislike, even without the cult connection.

by Anonymousreply 48906/26/2013

[quote]I always wondered how Kirstie got on Cheers. One star I personally dislike, even without the cult connection.

Me too - very nasty attitude and such a loud mouth who think she knows everything. Can't stand her.

R488 I've always wondered if she was gay. She hasn't had a boyfriend in like a decade (then again, who'd want her with that awful attitude).

by Anonymousreply 49006/26/2013

R490 Most guys in Hollywood want a young piece of meat(man meat that is) or some nubile young girl who will suck them off for weeks on end. KA was cute when she was young and is 60 now. Unless she gets a Larry Fortensky type,she'll be celibate for a long time to come.

by Anonymousreply 49106/26/2013

I think with Cheers, there had been drama on the set prior Kirstie joining. So TPTB were already prepared to deal with Kirstie.

by Anonymousreply 49206/26/2013

Looks like SCOTUS is batting 1000. today - Justice Kennedy took less than 24 hours to deny the cult's request for an emergency stay in the Laura DeCrescenzo forced abortion case. They can try again with a different justice if they can find one, but otherwise? Get ready to give the woman her own damn auditing files, you fuckin' bastards.

by Anonymousreply 49306/26/2013

R475, An online poster had this to say about the TV celeb with the bizarre past life.

"Well, one thing we do know is that GvS (Greta Van Susteren) was the 12000-year-old vampire brought up over at ScientologyCelebrity on Sunday. Maybe she can talk about being killed by Pope Pius XII instead."

by Anonymousreply 49406/29/2013

Read this article to explain why it's so traumatic for members to leave the cult; worse than extreme culture shock.

by Anonymousreply 49506/30/2013

The judge has ruled that today the cult must give Laura DeCrescenzo her OWN auditing folders - now we wait to see if they follow the court's order or double down, follow Hubbard and commit spoliation of evidence by turning over altered documents.

Note Marc Headley's comment in the thread: [quote]This is the beginning of the end for OSA & RTC.

I know it seems minor, but this is a big fuckin' deal because it sets a precedent for ex-Scientologists to request their own files. It also opens the cult up to lose an important case - DeCrescenzo is suing them over being forced to have an abortion at age 17 when she was in the Sea Org. Imagine the national media coverage on something like that...

by Anonymousreply 49607/02/2013

I hope the DeCrescenzo case gets national attention that way more people will learn about how fucked up CO$ is. But apart of me thinks it will be a long time before CO$ is brought down.

by Anonymousreply 49707/02/2013

R496, Must share some very entertaining comments from your link.

"OTVIIIisGrrr8! Upon receipt and inspection of said folders by the plaintiff it will be discovered that her folders consist of 18,000 PAGES OF BLANK GOVERNMENT COPIER PAPER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How's that for compliance Judge Sohigian?

Well OT8, I don't know. I once wrote a book called "the original ideas of L. Ron Hubbard" and 18,000 blank pages violates my copyright.

So THAT's where all that blank copy paper stolen in Operation Snow White went!

Xenu, Lord of Kobol 1)Typical 2)Expected 3)Standard 4){Ethical}

Reminds me of the con artist who represented himself in a tax evasion case. He gave a long argument that ended with "as God is the judge, I pay no taxes" and the judge said "He's not. I am. You pay."

by Anonymousreply 49807/02/2013

I prayed to Lord Xenu like a gazillion times and he heard me! Miss Cabbage will now fall and Xenu's reign of Gayness,Psychiatry and SPs will now come to the fore. The Clam Scam will be over and Thomasina Cruise will be jumping up on sofas reclaiming his former glory....

by Anonymousreply 49907/02/2013

OTVIIIisGrrr8!'s blog is [quote]The World's Best Satire of the Church of Scientology and its Leader David Miscavige

by Anonymousreply 50007/02/2013

And although the cult's hypocrisy is nothing new (they gave chloral hydrate to Lisa McPherson, murdered by the Introspection Rundown) the Scientology Celebrities blog has added a stunning comment in one of their own posts:

[quote]The MLO here keeps a variety of pills on hand for “extreme” cases, including Valium & Xanax, mainly for staff who get out of hand & need to be subdued before making a scene in front of publics, but we wouldn’t be surprised if they also use this shit on public pc’s who start going Type III.

So the Sea Org's medical officer keeps Big Pharma's evil psych drug products on hand for people who start having a psychotic breakdown. WOW.

by Anonymousreply 50107/02/2013

Twihards, reading this informative thread?

"GOSSIP: Apparently Robert Pattinson is dating Riley Keough, Lisa Marie Presley's daughter.

Miscavige is probably salivating over the possibility of getting at Keough's Presley money *and* Twilight money.

Pattinson is a lot of things, but he's not stupid enough to sign up for $cientology - anyway, isn't Lisa Marie an ex-member?

Has not publicly denounced the church explicitly, but the songs on her last album made it crystal clear to anyone who speak Scientologese that she is through with them.

Lisa Marie may or may not be, but there may be other people in Riley's life who could CoS could use to influence her. Isn't Riley's father still in?"

by Anonymousreply 50207/02/2013

Oooo, prominent ex-Sci Mike Rinder is spilling Tommy Davis's dirt: [quote]Tommy told me he was physically assaulted by Tom (“I deserved it”) who followed in the footsteps of his mentor Dave. Tommy was subservient to “Mr. Cruise” as was everyone else in the Sea Org by order of “COB.”

(Rinder is still somewhat of a believer, so his blog is heavy on cultspeak and the comments are mostly from Hubbard-apologist 'independents'. If you want a simpler interpretation, Tony Ortega has a story on this today as well.)

So Tom Cruise beats his staff too, just like David Miscavige. Wny am I not the least bit surprised?

by Anonymousreply 50307/03/2013


Read Jenna Miscavige Hill's (David's niece) memoir about how difficult it is to become un-brainwashed.

by Anonymousreply 50407/03/2013

We were wondering how he got that job when he had no education. They got off easily. I wonder if they'll ever talk.

[quote]So, how come they are silent? It’s not because they got paid a bunch of money and are afraid of losing it and ending up on welfare – Tommy’s dad is very wealthy and got him a plum position for which he is eminently unqualified as a managing director at a branch of Colony Capital. Jessica too comes from a wealthy family and also landed a high paying job selling multi-million dollar homes (like the one they live in which was listed at $1,495,000 before they purchased it outright in May 2012).

by Anonymousreply 50507/03/2013

How do we know Lisa Marie is out? Doesn't she still give to COS charities? And Riley's dad is hardcore COS. He was or is a Sea Org member.

by Anonymousreply 50607/03/2013

Lisa Marie is not out, she's just being given a long rope. If she was truly OUT she'd announce it. According to celebrity scientology blog she's still in

[quote] Sometimes they get a whiff of something like when Lisa Marie Presley got pissed off at everyone at some idiots at CCI & told them to stop bothering her – that automatically gets interpreted as “Lisa Marie is OUT of Scientology!” & it spreads like a mindfuck meme, which OSA loves. Lisa Marie (who has long been an OT) hasn’t left Scientology, she just hasn’t been active & doesn’t seem to want to be too active. You know, kind of like Neil Gaiman and probably dozens of other disaffected 2nd gen Scilons who want to do their own thing? Disaffected but definitely not disconnected. When a high tier Scientologist like Lisa Marie tells staff to back the fuck off & leave her alone, they’re supposed to listen. They didn’t, she got pissed, her mom also got pissed (at the staff), Dave Petit got pissed (at the staff), so her handlers (staff who work as liaisons to celebs) got knocked down to lower orgs, Dave Petit gets on his hands & knees & begs Lisa Marie & Priscilla for forgiveness, they forgive him, everyone is happy. If and when Lisa Marie blows the cult, she will make sure the world knows it & she will spell it out the way she spelled it out for Dave Petit how CCI staff pissed her off & were suffocating her! In the meantime OSA’s lovin how the tabloids been saying Lisa Marie has “left” again & again since 2009! Every year, you can bet one of ‘em will write that shit like it just happened, like how LRH every year proclaimed “YES WE FINALLY DID IT! NOW WE’VE GOT CLEAR HANDLED!” OSA loves the tabloids. Top UK Scilon Fraser Kee Scott is actually OSA’s main man for funnelling disinfo to UK papers like the Daily Mail & The Sun. There is a small unit out of the HGB that is just dedicated to spilling disinfo to the LA tabloids. The tabloids lap it up like dogs.

by Anonymousreply 50707/03/2013

Why would they want people to think she is out? Doesn't that seem to discredit their organization if a bunch of celebs are leaving it?

by Anonymousreply 50807/03/2013

R508, Perhaps if she's thought of being "out," then non-scieno celebs would think it "safe" to befriend her family members, and be unwittingly snared. Wouldn't TC be more appealing to girls if he were thought to be free from the chains?

by Anonymousreply 50907/03/2013

OSA likes anything that they can point to and say "see, they're wrong" and thus use to discredit online information among the membership. They also like anything that changes the subject and thus turns discussion away from them - the "all religions suck" is one of their favorites.

by Anonymousreply 51007/03/2013

"Was LRH right about the historic Jesus being a covert Marcabian agent & homosexual deviant sent to help prepare the way for the future enslavement of mankind as part of the inevitable Second Coming (Marcabian invasion of Earth)?

The fact that LRH denied the existence of Christ & claimed that the character of Jesus Christ is from an ancient implant, called “R6″ . . .

Since LRH denied the existence of Christ, it wouldn’t make sense for him to then suggest that Jesus actually existed & that he was a “lover of young boys & men”. Hubbard never denied that Jesus never existed, stating only that “there was no Christ," LRH makes a distinction between the mythic Christ of the Bible & the “historic Jesus” . .

For LRH to claim that the historic Jesus was a Marcabian agent & that every earthly religion except Buddhism is a product of a covert Marcabian conspiracy to enslave mankind — every lecture where he discusses the history of planet Earth & it’s role in the Marcab Confederacy as a dumping ground for perverts & criminals.

. . .it’s possible that the “revelations” about the historic Jesus being a pederastic homosexual saved for the final OT level, by which point any Scilon making it that far will accept literally any nonsense as truth.

Veteran Scilons are all very aware of Hubbard’s involvement in ritual magic with Jack Parsons & openly discuss these issues as well as Thelema"

by Anonymousreply 51107/06/2013

& Aleister Crowley, who considered himself the Antichrist, so it’s not a stretch for Hubbard to try to “reclaim” that title for himself as a one-up on Crowley. Ironically, Crowley was quite openly bisexual & an opium junkie, so a bit rich of Hubbard to denounce the “historic Jesus” because of his allegedly homosexual & pederastic proclivities. Or is it that LRH doth protest too much, and himself was a closet case? Or perhaps a child molester himself, since the Commodores Messenger Organization always seemed like the twisted product of a pedophile fantasy — could it be that Miscarriage himself who joined the CMO as a teenager was a sexual abuse victim of LRH? Is that why Miscarriage is so hopelessly fucked up & insane?

We disagree that Scientology or LRH is “Satanic” — the Church of Satan would disagree with that, and we’re sure Anton LaVey rolls in his grave every time someone mentions Scientology as being “Satanic”. Hell, Hubbard himself had a miserable understanding of Crowley & Thelema, so much so that Crowley himself ridiculed Parsons for his friendship with Hubbard & being robbed by him. Crowley apparently considered LRH to be a loser.

So much for Scientology being “Satanic” or even “Thelemic”.

by Anonymousreply 51207/06/2013

I picked up Jenna Miscavige Hill's book at the library yesterday. I'm not a parent, but from my friends that are (both gay and straight), they'd sooner walk over broken glass than be separated for their kids, the way the Sea Org parents (those grandfathered in under the old policy, before the forced abortions and all that) had to.

I also have to wonder who would win in a race of the most acronyms, the sisterwomyn of MichFest, or the clams.

by Anonymousreply 51307/07/2013

Don't forget to put the military in the running for the acronym prize, VoTN.

Speaking of parents and children, I'm intrigued by the hints the Scieno Celebrity blog is dropping about Elizabeth Moss and her father.

First this:

[quote]After one of our readers asked us about Elisabeth Moss, who we don’t know much about & rarely ever see or encounter, we started taking more of an interest & we’ve been discovering some very, very interesting things — not what many of you might expect, but definitely shows how truly evil Scientology is & why more & more Kool Aid drinkers have been staying away. We ourselves even underestimated just how low the cult could go, but what we’ve been finding out about how Elisabeth Moss has been treated, it shocked even us. We’ll be bringing you these & more stories very soon.

Then this:

[quote]The theme we’ve chosen for this month is about Scilon terrorism against high profile members it can’t control: the unbelievably sick & brutal psychological mind games played against Elisabeth Moss by CC Int & OSA with her father’s blessings;

She gave that crazy, nonsensical defense of Co$ at R183's link.

by Anonymousreply 51407/07/2013

"If you’re fortunate, you’ll leave with your original personality, sanity, and hopefully most of your savings still intact. Most aren’t that lucky, and even in the best cases, people are left working to completely overcome their past in Scientology & putting it behind them for good.

Let’s put it this way: if you see someone still calling themselves an “ex-Scientologist” or “former Scientologist”, they’ve still got a long way to go before they can honestly say they’ve completely overcome Scientology. We like to compare Scientology to an incurable retrovirus that consumes a person slowly over time until there is nothing left — you can keep a retrovirus in check through a strict regimen of medication, but you can never shake off the disease completely."

by Anonymousreply 51507/07/2013

What did they do to Moss? Why would they terrorize a celebrity? It makes no sense. She could drop them and gain a lot of cred.

by Anonymousreply 51607/07/2013

r516 here's the transcript in r183 's link, it makes no sense but on whyweprotest and other sites like Tony Ortega's Underground Bunker & scientologycelebrity.wordpress they've talked about her. Here is her nonsensical defense of Scilons:

[quote]Transcript for Elisabeth Moss Praises Scientology

You have these people in. Glad -- -- have a rich somewhere at that Scientology's -- stability is more. It has wow what -- What is when I talk to people that have that faith warrant they only say yeah I can -- better me yet because I think that's. That's and that's a good way of saying it because there's so much focus on man I guess empowerment in and respecting yourself and and yourself as an individual. That that's a good way of putting it is like a better version have better you know not necessarily changing you -- But I'm also big believer -- -- -- now taking. What works for you know

by Anonymousreply 51707/07/2013

R517, yep that makes no are they forcing her to defend scientology? and/or if you are raised as a scieno , then you have no basic sense of logic???? Yet, she seems smart...

I have noticed that recently when she is on the red carpet- she has been looking A LOT better...are the scienos paying for her makeover?

by Anonymousreply 51807/07/2013

The OP that started this thread kept thinking that John Travolta was stuck in it and could never leave. Many of us told him that he was wrong & that John could damn well leave if he wanted to, he's a super wealthy adult. Looks like WE ARE RIGHT. He's still VERY MUCH a SCEINTOLOGIST & is NOT PLANNING ON LEAVING. HE LOVES BEING ONE.

"John Travolta: 'I don't think I would be here without Scientology' | The Guardian

By Carmen Gray


Scientology has had so much negative press. Why?

Well, you know, I love Scientology. I've been involved for 38 years, and I don't think I'd be here without it because I've had a lot of losses and different negative things that have happened over the years and it really got me through brilliantly. I would walk in to a session feeling one way and walk out feeling a lot better.

You were raised a Catholic. What is it that Scientology gives you that Catholicism couldn't?

There are techniques for actually ridding you of stresses and pain as opposed to an advisory or recommendation on how to live. I believe L Ron Hubbard resolved the human mind, and in resolving it he has also resolved human pain – that's what I really think has happened here."

by Anonymousreply 51907/07/2013

R A D A R has an exclusive on John Travolta & Scientology titled JOHN TRAVOLTA LOVES SCEINTOLOGY

For some reason I'm not allowed to link to it here, google it.

by Anonymousreply 52007/07/2013

Not defending Travolta, as I don't really know his situation, but here's the rest of R515 post.

". . . terrorism against high profile members it can’t control: the unbelievably sick & brutal psychological mind games played against Elisabeth Moss . . . with her father’s blessings; new revelations about the last days of Isaac Hayes, how he was forced into a hopeless corner by both Scientology & the creators of South Park. . . how Hayes was practically on the verge of dumping Scientology, and how he was literally terrorized to death by the Scilons; and the raw details behind the strange behavior of Juliette Lewis & why she needs to disconnect from her zealot sister & dump the cult ASAP before it kills her or drives her permanently insane.

There’s an old story called “The Most Dangerous Game” (by Richard Connell) about a big game hunter who ends up on an isolated island where he ends up becoming human game hunted by a wealthy & jaded hunter named General Zaroff who has become bored with animals & finds human prey to be far more challenging. It’s been adapted for film numerous times & inspired even more original stories, like “The Hunger Games”. We’ve always seen L. Ron Hubbard as a sadistic & jaded character like Zaroff, obsessed with luring unsuspecting victims into vicious mind games, but even worse, because unlike with Zaroff, in Scientology there is no way to totally win. Any way you look at it, no matter how you play the game, you’re still fucked.

Every week we’re reminded of this when we encounter at least one person who’s ready to dump the cult, who’s come to a point where they’ve decided that Scientology is causing more harm than good & there’s literally no advantage to them at all to stay in — yet they never follow through all the way. Most eventually will take the red pill for good, but it usually requires something so extreme to happen that they either have no choice (as in getting declared & expelled) or like alcoholics & junkies who’ve hit bottom, they’re just sick & tired of being sick & tired."

by Anonymousreply 52107/07/2013

R520, Always willing to help a fellow anti-Scieno.

by Anonymousreply 52207/07/2013

[quote]Tony Ortega SCIENTOLOGY CELEB FAMILY DRAMA: The Underground Bunker has teamed with Aussie mag Woman's Day to bring you a juicy bonus story tonight. We talked to Joe Reaiche, former rubgy star and Scientologist, and he has some not very kind things to say about the son of Tom Cruise, Connor, dating his daughter, actress Alanna Masterson.

by Anonymousreply 52307/07/2013

Kirstie and Mimi Rogers were "roommates" for some time. Kirstie used to give interviews where she talked about how she and Mimi would 'pretend' to be lesbians to turn on guys. This always seemed pretty glaring to me.

by Anonymousreply 52407/07/2013

Kirstie seems like a big ol' dyke to me.

by Anonymousreply 52507/07/2013

R523, From your link, here's an interesting quote

". . . wonder how Alex Pettyfer feels [supposed to be a closet and professional beard for the younger set].... Connor's best {boy?} friend... and, strangely, Riley Keough's ex."

by Anonymousreply 52607/07/2013

Response to R522 link on Travolta's reason for not leaving the cult, that it resolved his pain . . .

". . . those working in neuroscience and its allied disciplines would like to know that L. Ron Hubbard resolved the human mind. Science doesn't know how consciousness arises. It can't adequately explain the origin of qualia (subjective experiences). But no matter, Ron knew. The hard problem of consciousness isn't a problem after all. I guess the scientists in such disciplines need to take off their lab coats, relax, and read Dianetics."

by Anonymousreply 52707/07/2013

R525 Me too, especially that deep voice and butch demeanor.

by Anonymousreply 52807/07/2013

r527 are you a clam?

by Anonymousreply 52907/07/2013

Here's the thing...Sciento forbids inter-racial dating. So how are Connor and the father-rejecting cunt getting away with it? It's amazing how celebs get to reject the rules of the cult.

by Anonymousreply 53007/07/2013

Just found an interpretation of the scieno-rants from Elfman and Moss:

". . . during your past life. . . admit to crimes committed on Planet Venus or 100,000 years ago

yes, if you've lived 1000s of lifetimes you very likely committed a crime like rape or murder at least once. LRH said many people have blown up a planet at least once."

by Anonymousreply 53107/07/2013

R529, I'm the one who bumped this thread, post reading the book. When I read a quote that I feel is insightful, I've been posting it here. I'm sure the original author of that quote was being very sarcastic. I thought that it was very funny, actually.

by Anonymousreply 53207/07/2013

R530, Since LRH (Hubtard) was such a racist, would he have given Connor a pass because he was adopted by White parents?

Following Scieno's "rules," how could Connor, or anyone else, date someone of the exact same race if it isn't known exactly what percentage of his ancestry is attributed to which race?

by Anonymousreply 53307/07/2013

Haven't they changed their racist ways a tinge? They now have Will Smith, Jada, Jaden & Kimora Simmons as cult members, as well as Connor Cruise.

by Anonymousreply 53407/08/2013

R534, They'll take whomever gives them masses amount of money. Even better if the minority has celeb cachet. That doesn't change the extremely racist statements LRH made. I've quoted several in the thread on After Earth. Wright also discusses the constant dissing of Blacks in the cult today.

by Anonymousreply 53507/08/2013

Holy shit, she wrote a KR on Miscavige?

[quote]Let that sink in: Leah Remini wrote up David Miscavige, the leader of Scientology, and submitted it for action.


[quote]We’re also told that Remini’s mother Vicki Marshall, who is an Operating Thetan Level Eight (the highest level of Scientology spiritual advancement) and Class Six Auditor, her stepfather, who is Operating Thetan Level Seven, and her sisters are standing by her and have promised not to let Miscavige split the family apart with the disconnection policy.

I hope this gets media traction and they try to fair game her - that'd really send her over the top. Right now would be the perfect time for a celebrity flap to really break the dam and push a ton of fencesitters out of the cult - there are lots of anecdotal reports of many, MANY discontented people still in who are only there to avert disconnection from their families.

by Anonymousreply 53607/08/2013

WWP just posted that the Will Smith funded clam school NVLA is closed and it looks like it is! Yay!

by Anonymousreply 53707/08/2013

It also doesn't change Hubbard's rule about not mixing the races. I mean, technically speaking, Connor should not even be a clam, since he is biracial. Scientology forbids it.

But they'd never want the general public to know that, and the MSM rarely reports it.

by Anonymousreply 53807/08/2013

R536, Here are quotes from that article, explaining the last 3 posts, for those of us who are unfamiliar with Scieno speak:

"SCIENTOLOGY CELEBRITY REBELLION: Leah Remini Dared to Ask, “Where’s Shelly?”

King of Queens actress Leah Remini had left the Church of Scientology in an angry fit. . . Remini is breaking away because of the way leader David Miscavige is treating church members, Sea Org workers, and Scientology itself.

Remini has been distancing herself from what she refers to as the church’s “corrupt management” for a few years. And it started with a dramatic scene.

In November 2006, Remini was one of numerous celebrity guests at the wedding of Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes at a castle outside Rome. Cruise’s best man was David Miscavige, who has been the church’s leader since the death of its founder, L. Ron Hubbard, in 1986.

Notably absent, however, was Miscavige’s wife, Shelly. Remini dared to ask about it — and loudly.. .(Shelley's) deteriorating relationship with her husband. Shelly has not been seen by the rest of the membership of the church since 2006, except for one sighting when she was allowed to attend the funeral of her father in August 2007.

In November 2006, when the Cruise-Holmes wedding occurred, it was still surprising for Remini to see Miscavige at such a major event without his wife. When she asked about it she was told to shut up, as if the question itself was out of line. That did not sit well with the actress, who is known for speaking her mind.

When she returned from Italy, she did what Scientologists are told to do when they see something that they consider against the church’s rules — she wrote a “Knowledge Report.”

Remini’s report, we’re told, included criticisms of Miscavige . . . Tom Cruise, Katie Holmes, and other members of Scientology’s upper management . . . accusing them of lying to the press about Scientology’s toxic “disconnection” policy and the excessive interrogations of church members."

by Anonymousreply 53907/08/2013

Leah considers herself a Catholic now too.

by Anonymousreply 54007/08/2013

R538, Are you saying that Scieno bars mixed race applicants? How would they really know who's not 100% White? Is there a per cent of non-White blood that makes someone biracial? For example, I've known many fair skinned people with light eyes who are really part Native American.

Since Scienos now recruit in other countries, does this rule apply to Hispanics and Asians too?

Please don't tell me to consider one's parents. We all know about secret adoptions, children born out-of-wedlock and raised by other than their true birth parents, etc.

by Anonymousreply 54107/08/2013

So is Shelly pretty much a kidnapped prisoner...because that's what it sounds like.

by Anonymousreply 54207/08/2013

Is Connor Cruise's bio-son or what? Did Cruise fuck a BW? How did Cruise ACQUIRE Connor & Bella? Anyone?

by Anonymousreply 54307/08/2013

R542, There have been many, many rumors of Scieno members who have "disappeared" for years and years, without being able to contact family members or friends inside or outside the cult. At least Shelley, David Miscabbage's wife, is supposedly not in a gulag-type prison environment.

by Anonymousreply 54407/08/2013

It's more than just no contact with family or friends - Shelly Miscavige has not been *seen* by anyone, in or out of the cult, since 2007. She could be held in any kind of conditions, possibly even worse than the RPF - nobody knows if she's alive or dead or where she might be being held.

Miscavige has replaced Shelly with another "2d" (relationship), a woman named Laurisse Stuckenbrock, whose husband Uwe cut off his family when he went into the Sea Org. Uwe was sent to the RPF gulag for some perhaps minor transgression (which, coincidentally or not, freed up his wife) and later died from lack of treatment for his multiple sclerosis.

by Anonymousreply 54507/08/2013

Watch the first video here, and see if you can explain it to me. Because I'm a fairly well-educated, literate person, and I can't for the life of me figure out what's got these Scientologists so damned excited about forking over a bunch of money for a series of courses they've already taken, since, IIRC, "The Basics" was just a repackaging of previously existing material.

I mean, I understand the words, but the order they're in just doesn't make any goddamn sense.

"It's a full hat for a thetan" indeed.

by Anonymousreply 54607/08/2013

R546, Haven't you read any of the Scieno-speak posts on the After Earth thread? They're not able to think independently about anything, because they're so brainwashed and likely hypnotized. Of course they're also probably given scripts to read and memorize.

This goes far, far beyond manipulative control. Can I walk you down to the bank to see how much money you really have in your account to give us?

by Anonymousreply 54707/08/2013

Well, I've read both "Inside Scientology" and "Going Clear" and I'm just now getting into Jenna Miscavige Hill's book, so I'd like to think I understand at least a little bit of the lingo.

But in all honesty, the cracked-out stuff they're talking about, I just don't understand. At all.

I mean, they come across as every bit as drug-addled as LRH did on some of those Xenu tapes.

by Anonymousreply 54807/08/2013

Holy shit, shit has gone down at

Ok is Dina Eastwood IN scientology btw? Because I think she is.

by Anonymousreply 54907/08/2013

R548, I agree. Earlier in this thread I suggested that getting repeatedly audited affects ones' brain chemistry, in the same way that illegal drug use alters one's personality over time. Don't forget that many recruits, including Paul Haggis, were former drug addicts. That's why some like Kirstie Alley credit Scieno with saving their lives. Minor electric shocks, increased under David Miscabbage, create a physical dependence. So do the confession-like sessions. Note how many Scienos are former Catholics.

by Anonymousreply 55007/08/2013

I think Dina Eastwood and others in the Eastwood family are in CO$, but are keeping it on the down low.

R541 There are a quite a bit of Hispanic people who are in CO$ or who briefly dabbled in it. Michael Pena and Esai Morales are Scienos. Joanna Garcia from Reba was pictured at a Scieno event years ago, but it is possible that she never fully got in or left. I would say CO$ wouldn't have issues with Hispanics because many Hispanics are mestizo or white.

The Mexican government recently did something to block CO$ down there. I can't remember exactly what it was, but it was discussed on an anti-Scieno site. CO$ would likely have a hard time recruiting in many Spanish speaking countries due to Catholicism and Evangelicals. CO$ tends to focus more on recruiting in European countries.

by Anonymousreply 55107/08/2013

R551, Wish what you said about Mexico's ban on Scientology were true. Also many Hispanics aren't considered to be White.

by Anonymousreply 55207/08/2013

Clint's divorcing Dina

by Anonymousreply 55307/08/2013're missing the point completely.

Anyone with a ban account can be a Sciento. BUT inter-racial dating violates the tenets of the cult. So I was wondering aloud how they justify Connor being a Sciento when his very existence violates their bullshit 'religion'.

They don't turn bi or multi-racial people away. They are just clear (pun intended) that races must not mix. Don't look for logic from this cult.

by Anonymousreply 55407/08/2013

R544, Of course Scienos would never turn away anyone with money. But when do mixed race married couples find out that their taboo? How can you maintain same race dating when many are already multi-racial?

I know Scienos are far less logical than even the Mormons.

by Anonymousreply 55507/08/2013

Kimora Simmons is a Scieno, mixed race (blasian), who married one BM, then another BM. Her daughter Ming looks blasian but Aoki looks like Russell mostly.

Is Russell Simmons a clam?

by Anonymousreply 55607/08/2013

R556, So I guess Kimora and others never researched what her new "religion" thought of her mixed race status and dating/marriage choices?

by Anonymousreply 55707/08/2013

I don't think Russell Simmons is a clam. He seems smart enough to not get mixed up with the clams. Does anyone know when Kimora became a clam?

by Anonymousreply 55807/08/2013

R553, Why is Clint finally divorcing Dina? He must be upset that their daughter is a clam. Is his wife into the cult as well?

by Anonymousreply 55907/08/2013

R560, Don't understand why playboy Clint married Dina in the 1st place. Wasn't he on alert?

by Anonymousreply 56107/08/2013

R561 She's a much younger woman and Clint likes younger girls. You must know what twinks do to gay men can you imagine what a much younger woman can do to an older guy? Clint was broadsided by this woman. Now she's a clam so Clint can find a new clam himself!

by Anonymousreply 56207/08/2013

R557...they don't have to. Sciento has a double standard where celebs are concerned. they can pretty much do what they want.

And leave it to VOTN to attack people for trying to bring out the truth. You are such an insufferable know-it-all and asshole.

by Anonymousreply 56307/08/2013

Clint saw Dina Ruiz doing the news in Monterey/Carmel on his tv. Called her up, she said yes, they got married, she made sure to have a child.

What the anti-clam sites say is that his daughters weird bf on her show recruited Dina into scientology.

by Anonymousreply 56407/08/2013

As far as pure race - Dina Ruiz is Latina, was married to a white guy & she herself is mestizo I think, mixed with African blood. I wonder if the clams care? I kind of doubt they would in that instance, she's got money.

by Anonymousreply 56507/08/2013

R563, What is VOTN? I don't understand your post.

I know Scieno gives celebs a total pass but how do other, regular members handle restrictions on what race they're allowed to date? Do you have to get permission to get married too?

by Anonymousreply 56607/08/2013

They don't care what rich celebs do. Look at Travolta...he's clearly still sexually active with guys, yet he's treated like a King, even though Hubbard said that gay people were deviants and dangerous.

by Anonymousreply 56707/08/2013

R557, VOTN is The Voice of the Night. He is a longtime member who has posted in this thread.

by Anonymousreply 56807/08/2013

The government of Mexico denied Scientology's request for recognition as an official religion in January 2013.

VOTN, are you talking about the "Golden Age of Knowledge" video? It's a puff piece for Miscavige's *second* revision of Hubbard's tech, meant for internal distribution only. It's to get the rank and file fired up to pay out the wazoo to redo the training they've already done; this time around it's more expensive, because they can only be trained by an auditor on an OT level same or higher than they are. The higher the level of the auditor, the more the training costs...the title card at the end really should be titled "REdo the Basics."

So they're just yammering on in Scientologese about how this will solve all your problems! You know, those problems they had to 'attest' were gone before their Basics were declared complete the first time around as a newbie Scientologist...

That said, this video is important - remember, they believe that 'Source is Source', e.g. Hubbard's words must not be changed in any way. The last time Miscavige did this 17 years ago (by claiming they cleaned up the punctuation - this time around it's additional documents they say they discovered!) a shitload of Scientologists asked "Why?" and left, either because he was messing with Source ("squirreling") or because being told they had to take a do-over turned on their cognitive dissonance alarms. The level of internal discontent is even higher now than it was then. and these days they're all online thus just a click or two away from the truth. This time around they'll find people they know personally who left and are speaking out. Add this to the family members and friends who have already blown, and at this point you really and truly have to have your head "fixed and determined" up your ASS screaming "LALALA LALA entheta!" to not see how badly the cult is sinking. They may well die from the inside out before we can tear them down.

by Anonymousreply 56907/08/2013

Oh, and another thing about the do-over - right now they can only do it in Clearwater at the 'Flag land base', which makes the auditing even more expensive. He's also making the orgs (local 'churches') send in a certain number of staffers to be trained to deliver this, and until that gets done it's a Flag-only thing. Miscavige is IN Clearwater right now rallying the publics and micromanaging the whole deal.

All this is to prep them for the really big bleed, the Super Power rundowns, which Miscavige has been promising repeatedly for years. The building isn't even complete! But when it is, every Scientologist with a few million nickels to rub together (or enough equity for a third mortgage) can 'increase their perceptics'. If they don't redo their Basics now under GAK they'll miss the Oiliness table!

by Anonymousreply 57007/08/2013

At the bottom of the TMZ article:

[quote]Unfortunately, due to experiencing unusually high levels of traffic we have had to temporarily suspend our comments function. We will resume comments again as soon as possible

There's only one comment by an accusatory "Elizabeth."

by Anonymousreply 57107/09/2013

That's not TMZ, that's & you can leave a message there if you're signed up with disqus or make a phoney disqus acct.

by Anonymousreply 57207/09/2013

Laugh all you want 500/1000 years from now Scientology will probably be the next Catholicism... people will ray to St. Travolta to cure their sons from the love of cock not realizing the total power bottom Travolta is ...

by Anonymousreply 57307/09/2013

You might be onto something, R524...

by Anonymousreply 57407/09/2013

And more...

by Anonymousreply 57507/09/2013

Those pics of young Kirstie Alley are hilarious.

by Anonymousreply 57607/09/2013

Was she wearing a wig or hair extensions on Cheers?

by Anonymousreply 57707/09/2013

Fencestraddling exSci Mike Rinder is dishing the dirt again, this time about Leah Remini (he's hearing she's out too) and the general debacle that was the Cruise/Holmes wedding:

[quote]Minister, the Reverend Norman Starkey, got drunk and hit on Brooke Shields until her husband complained about his behavior to Miscavige, Dave (Miscavige) and Lou (Laurisse Stuckenbrock) acted inappropriately in public and Leah stirred the pot about Shelly, not to mention the bride not turning out to be what Dave and Tom had planned...Reportedly at this time Tommy (Davis) let fly with a classic. He told Leah: “You don’t have the fucking rank to ask about Shelly.”

Tommy Davis and Jessica Feshbach then became:[quote]the designated “hatchet-men” for Miscavige...spearheaded a campaign to “dead-agent” Leah, and Jessica was the driving force behind the squirrel Truth Rundown Leah was forced to undergo at Flag. I heard they were more than happy to try to put Leah in her place because she has dared call them out on their blossoming 2D (relationship) when they were both still married.

Yep, "Where's Shelly?" really winds them up.

by Anonymousreply 57807/09/2013

And awesome young ex-Sea Org (kicked out for being gay) blogger Derek has written a letter to Remini, asking her to speak out:

by Anonymousreply 57907/09/2013

I wonder if her firing from "The Talk" had anything to do with her uppitiness at Co$? Who knows where they have their tentacles in the entertainment industry.

by Anonymousreply 58007/09/2013

R578, Relaying a comment of why when Travolta temporarily left the cult he was reeled back in.

"Miscabbage (DM) worked hard to get him (John Travolta (JT)) back in

In other words … DM has the goods on JT and has tightened the noose on him until he had little choice but to acquiesce to DM’s “leverage?” I can imagine the treasure trove of spittle that DM has on John and all celebs. John should just spit it back in DM’s face."

by Anonymousreply 58107/09/2013

We need to get ready for Going Clear part 2.

by Anonymousreply 58207/09/2013

R583, Is there going to be a Going Clear 2? Do you have inside info? I've contacted the authors' assistant with several questions, and have not gotten a response.

I've started a new thread, on why celebs/average people don't leave the cult. I welcome comments. Of course I compared Scieno to George Orwell's 1984.

by Anonymousreply 58307/09/2013

Can someone explain the "hat" references?

In that video from Tony Ortega's site, one of the happy little clams mentioned a "hate full of thetans" and Jenna Miscavige Hill keeps talking about courses she had to take in the Sea Org with "hat" in the title.

Just when I think I finally have all of the lingo down, like a hydra, two new terms pop up.

by Anonymousreply 58407/09/2013

You know, every time I think that there's nothing left about Scientology that will surprise me, something else comes along at it turns out the rabbit hole goes even deeper than I thought.

by Anonymousreply 58507/09/2013

R585, Just reading a comment on Tony Ortega's blog. I hope Tony reads them too. There was a discussion of massive financial fraud, including tax exempt status for private businesses secretly owned by Miscabbage and money laundering on a grand scale. It make the Moonies look small-time.

by Anonymousreply 58607/09/2013

"hat" is a Scientology term that means "role."

You can be wearing your father hat.

Or when you're at work, your "administrative" hat. (Or whatever your job is.)

Auditing hat.

etc. Everyone wears many "hats" at different times.

by Anonymousreply 58707/09/2013

Will some here on DL give us the final abbreviated copy of good stuff?

by Anonymousreply 58807/09/2013

In sum: Scientology is a cray-cray cult, full of midgets and homosexuals, and costs a boatload of dough.

by Anonymousreply 58907/09/2013

R588, How do you define "good stuff?" Celeb involvement?

by Anonymousreply 59007/09/2013

Have any of you heard of The Process Church? Apparently it's an offshoot of Scientology. Interesting connection with Sharon Tate, Charles Manson, and Satanism. Found the link when researching nefarious mind control, especially of children.

Will start a cont'd thread when we're almost to 600 posts.

by Anonymousreply 59107/11/2013

[quote]"hat" is a Scientology term that means "role."

Then why not just say "role?"

Aside from the fact LRH was a drug-addicted madman.

by Anonymousreply 59207/11/2013

Derek the ex Sea Org member commented on Tony Ortega's posting about Leah Remini leaving CO$.

[I hope this is true because, like I said before, Leah was always very nice to me when I was in the Sea Org. Probably the only public Scientologist and definitely the only celebrity one that ever treated me like a human being. Most other public Scientologists acted like Sea Org members were their servants.

Leah, I don't know if you read this, but I'd love to hear what you have to say. I remember my encounter with you vividly, because during the three years of hell I suffered in that place, you were the only one that ever treated me with respect and kindness.]

by Anonymousreply 59307/11/2013

Leah always appeared as an opinionated cunt to me BUT she's really redeemed herself. She's a feisty Italian and Jewish girl from Brooklyn who comes across as gruff but has a heart of gold. Good for her.

by Anonymousreply 59407/11/2013

VOTN, the special language is part of indoctrination and control - it separates followers from reality, makes them feel special and important, and primes them for the rest of the thought-stopping. Many exes say the single most valuable thing they did to speed up the long process of breaking free was to stop using, and thus thinking in, Scientologese.

Hubbard also used Scientologese to obfuscate exactly what he was doing, IMO - legal authorities need a translator to figure out what's going on. Crazy nasty fucker did a great job of hiding his criminal actions behind an almost impenetrable wall of bloviation.

I'm of the same opinion about Remini as about Lisa Marie Presley - signs are positive, but until she says something that definitively rejects them, she's still in in my books. Rumors are flying and from good sources, but SHE hasn't said anything yet.

by Anonymousreply 59507/11/2013

And now we have this plus the Hollywood Reporter, but still no statement from Remini or her representatives (her husband doesn't count, IMO, because of the mindfuck.) Maybe the growing media swirl will push her into making a statement.

I'd be willing to bet Paul Haggis has or will be contacting her, too.

by Anonymousreply 59607/11/2013

R596, Here's THR link discussing Remini's departure, as well as many other Scieno updates. Kudos to THR for risking industry condemnation for continuing to focus on the cult's evil and illegal practices.

by Anonymousreply 59707/11/2013

R597, From your link to THR, I'm posting an insightful comment. Also just learned that Scienos are called "clams," because LRH claimed that all humans descended from clams. DL scientists, please way in. LOL.

"Narconon program is being sued for numerous wrongful deaths and prosecuted for credit card and insurance fraud . . . former members suing to get their Super Powers Building money back. It's only 15 years behind schedule but will open soon, which in terms of the galaxy, could be a million years from now."

Anyone know the status of any of these lawsuits?

by Anonymousreply 59807/11/2013

Someone start a part two of this thread, please!

by Anonymousreply 59907/11/2013

R599, It's already been done.

Another comment from THR link:

"The truth is clambots are not allowed to read anything not written by Hubbturd, and are very poorly educated as a result."

How can escaped clams hope to live a normal life, and get real jobs, once they get out if their education and awareness has been so limited? Especially those born into the cult? Shame on Paul Haggis who admitted his young teenage daughters were still illiterate.

Don't children not in the public schools have to prove that they're getting a basic education?

by Anonymousreply 60007/11/2013
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