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New Developments in Search for Missing McStay Family

FALLBROOK, Calif. — The FBI is taking over the search for a Southern California family that has been missing for 3 years, officials say.

Joseph McStay, his wife Summer, and their 2 young sons Gianni and Joseph were last heard from on February 4, 2010.

In a statement Tuesday, the San Diego County Sheriff’s Department said it pursued hundreds of leads to find Joseph and Summer McStay and their sons.

The investigation is being turned over to the FBI due to the agency’s experience working outside the United States.

Its believed the family likely went to Mexico voluntarily, but relatives aren’t convinced.

Investigators say that on Jan. 28, days before they disappeared, someone used the McStay’s computer to find information about travel to Mexico and passports for children.

The McStay’s white 1996 Izuzu Trooper was found abandoned February 8th in San Ysidro.

Detectives also uncovered video from a border crossing showing a group of people similar to the McStay family going into Mexico through the pedestrian gate.

The video is dated around 7 p.m. Feb. 8, the same day the Trooper was found.

Detectives showed the video to the McStay’s relatives.

Some recognized the white jacket that the woman is wearing in the video, but other family members aren’t sure it’s them because of the poor quality of the video.

Since their disappearance, investigators said, the McStays haven’t used their bank accounts, credit cards or cell phones.

Family members maintain the McStays would never have left on vacation or for any other reason without telling someone.

“Evidence at the family home suggested that the family had not left on a planned vacation and that the totality of the circumstances surrounding their disappearance was quite out of character for this family,” sheriff’s Lt. Dennis Brugos said.

The family dogs had been left without food or water.

Food was found on the kitchen counter and two cereal bowls full of popcorn were in the living room.

“Certainly it’s not against the law to be missing voluntarily but we are checking some things preliminarily such as their banking, cell phone use, to try to make a determination on what happened,” said Lt. Dennis Brugos.

McStay worked from home and ran an online business selling indoor fountain waterfalls called Earth Inspired Products since 1996.

Anyone with information on the case is asked to call Crime Stoppers at (888) 580-8477

by Anonymousreply 20206/15/2015

Other than the FBI taking over the case there's absolutely no new info on these people who obviously chose to dissappear. Fuck em. Let them stay in Mexico, nobody gives a shit.

by Anonymousreply 104/09/2013

Anyone who's been to Fallbrook could understand why a person would want to run away.

by Anonymousreply 204/09/2013

This case has fascinated me for quite some time now. I first heard about it a year or so ago on a "Disappeared" episode. I followed the case for awhile on some of the true crime boards but the threads were constantly derailed by people who seemed determined to stop any sleuthing on this case.

One of the little boys has a very distinct and noticeable birthmark right smack on his forehead. If I were his parent(s) and were in hiding, the FIRST thing I would look into would be getting that birthmark removed if possible. The FBI should look at this angle, maybe check with dermatologists and plastic surgeons in South America and Canada.

by Anonymousreply 304/09/2013

[quote] The family dogs had been left without food or water.

If they did leave voluntarily, then I hope they get what they deserve for leaving their dogs uncared for.

by Anonymousreply 404/09/2013

Remember when they did this story on Disapprared and we were all discussing it? They got the kids across with no identification?

by Anonymousreply 504/09/2013

Something about this story doesn't make sense.

by Anonymousreply 604/09/2013

I am from San Diego and our consensus has always been that they left voluntarily. People make a big deal out of the dog thing but the dogs were left outside where anyone would right away know they were abandoned and take them in. If they had been inside they would have starved. Also, his brother seems skeevy to me. He is the one who put out the Wanted posters and one of the first things you notice on it is that Gianni, the kid with the big portwine stain on his head, is wearing a hat that covers it. Why the fuck would you have a picture of the missing with the most identifiable mark covered up? It's insane. Also they had the one show with Laura Ling (Lisa's sister) in Costa Rica interviewing the hubby's best friend and he seemed like he knew something. That Summer was crazy and pissed that they moved to the illustrious Fallbrook, home of Tom Metzger. I'm sure she wanted to just leave and so they did.

by Anonymousreply 704/09/2013

@ R7 but if they left just because they felt like it, why not tell anyone? And if they left because they were trying to avoid prosecution of some sort, why leave over $100,000 in the bank?

I'm extremely suspicious of Summer, her past is sketchy... I have wondered if she got rid of Joey and took off with the kids with help from unknown person/people...

by Anonymousreply 804/09/2013

Did they take any money with them? How could they survive?

Just to be sure, this is the family on tape packing up their car like zombies and leaving?

by Anonymousreply 904/09/2013

R3, you can't remove a birthmark. You want them to laser it off his head?

by Anonymousreply 1004/09/2013

r8 In the Laura Ling show there was a woman that saw them at the Walmart in Mexico or Costa Rica and that Travis had his head shaved I think, implying that he was sick. Maybe he was and they just wanted to leave. The one guy said that he often had a lot of money so leaving 100 k wasn't that big of a deal. Who knows, maybe they left it for his family or for bills. I think Summer is super shady too, maybe she is the one who wanted to leave and did get rid of him. I just think they did leave of their own free will and I thought that their status on Interpol had been updated to Voluntary Missing. Another weird thing about the brother is that he will only do shows about them if he is paid. I think his fee is like 5000 bucks. If he were truly worried he would want the word out no matter what.

by Anonymousreply 1104/09/2013

[bold] Bodies Found in Victorville Could Be Linked to Missing McStay Family [/bold]

The bodies of four people found buried in the desert north of Victorville may be linked to the 2010 disappearance of the McStay family from Fallbrook, according to a report Thursday in the San Diego Union Tribune.

San Diego County Sheriff Bill Gore confirmed to the Union Tribune that he had spoken with the sheriff in San Bernardino County.

Gore would not tell the newspaper what he and his counterpart discussed, and would also not confirm reports that the remains could be those of the McStays.

San Diego’s 10News was the first to report a possible connection between the Victorville remains and the McStay family.

Authorities have scheduled a new conference to discuss the case at 11 a.m. Friday in San Bernardino.

Joseph McStay, his wife Summer, and their two young sons Gianni and Joseph were last heard from on Feb. 4, 2010.

The San Diego County Sheriff’s Department turned the investigation over to the FBI in April due to the belief that the family went to Mexico voluntarily, according to a news release from the San Diego Sheriff’s Department.

In the days before they disappeared, investigators said someone used the McStay’s computer to find information about travel to Mexico and passports for children.

The McStay’s white 1996 Izuzu Trooper was found abandoned Feb. 8th in San Ysidro.

Detectives also uncovered video from a border crossing showing a group of people similar to the McStay family going into Mexico through the pedestrian gate, according to the release.

The video is dated around 7 p.m. Feb. 8, the same day the Trooper was found.

Since their disappearance, investigators said, the McStays haven’t used their credit cards, cell phones or the $100,000 in their checking account.

Family members maintain the McStays would never have left on vacation or for any other reason without telling someone.

Evidence at the family home suggested that the family had not left on a planned vacation and that the totality of the circumstances surrounding their disappearance was quite out of character for this family,” sheriff’s Lt. Dennis Brugos said.

The family dogs had been left without food or water.

Food was found on the kitchen counter and two cereal bowls full of popcorn were in the living room.

“Certainly it’s not against the law to be missing voluntarily but we are checking some things preliminarily such as their banking, cell phone use, to try to make a determination on what happened,” said Lt. Dennis Brugos.

McStay worked from home and ran an online business selling indoor fountain waterfalls called Earth Inspired Products since 1996.

by Anonymousreply 1211/15/2013

Per report just aired on KTLA, someone who works for an organization that searches for missing children (sorry I missed the name of the person/org) and has been in contact with family members has said the family has been informed that 2 of gthe bodies have been positively identified.

Sheriff's office has scheduled a press conference scheduled for 11AM PST.

by Anonymousreply 1311/15/2013

You can make a living for almost 20 years selling indoor waterfalls from home? Nice gig.

by Anonymousreply 1411/15/2013

It is official. I just read on another website that the McStays cousin has said that the family has been notified that the four bodies are the McStays and that it appears to be the result of homicide.

Just for those who have followed this case and perhaps read the book "No Goodbyes", apparently the author of said book has shut down his website today. I guess his theory differed from this outcome. A lot.

by Anonymousreply 1511/15/2013

I'm trademarking the name "Summer McStay" for my new chain of discount motels.

by Anonymousreply 1611/15/2013

R1 is a piece of shit.

by Anonymousreply 1711/15/2013

Wow. I often wondered if he got involved in smuggling drugs or something. He did a lot of business in Mexico.

by Anonymousreply 1811/15/2013

This makes me sad. I can't imagine the terror they all must have felt. Even when big drugs are involved, the children and spouse are rarely hurt. I wonder if she was the one involved in something.

by Anonymousreply 1911/15/2013

So they never made it to Mexico? This story is so bizarre, I hope more details come out

by Anonymousreply 2011/15/2013

The house did seem like people came in and forced them to leave right away, probably by threats or gunpoint.

Sad. But, most likely had something to do with the wife.

by Anonymousreply 2111/15/2013

What was fishy about the wife again? Did she have a past involving crime?

by Anonymousreply 2211/15/2013

[quote]Just to be sure, this is the family on tape packing up their car like zombies and leaving?

No R9. That was another family. Can't remember their name though. They disappeared while looking at property.

by Anonymousreply 2311/15/2013

Why are the security cameras at places like the border crossing such poor quality? They couldn't even tell if that family of 4 was the McStays. I was dark but this also happens all the time. What good is the fucking camera if it can't identify someone?

by Anonymousreply 2411/15/2013

[quote] Even when big drugs are involved, the children and spouse are rarely hurt. I wonder if she was the one involved in something.

Oh, no! That's long a thing of the past. The cartels in Mexico are absolutely ruthless and do kill family and friends of opposing cartel members and associates of anyone they perceive to have fallen afoul of the cartel or threatens their interests. They are ruthless and killings are unbelievable brutal. A few years ago a lowly naval ensign was killed during an anti drug operation. The affected cartel found his civilian family and killed the rest of them. Why? Because they wanted to show that they have the power to wipe out entire families. A recent viral video showed a Zeta beheading a woman with a knife (it took 40 secs). Nobody knows who she was or what she did.

by Anonymousreply 2511/15/2013

Count out 40 seconds. That's a frighteningly long time.

by Anonymousreply 2611/15/2013

R25 is right. The cartels will kill women and children, aunts, uncles, cousins, entire families. You might be thinking of the Italian mob who do have a "code of honor" and usually leave wives and kids alone.

by Anonymousreply 2711/15/2013

Victorville remains identified as members of missing McStay family By Rick Rojas 8:36 AM PST, November 15, 2013

Two sets of skeletal remains found in Victorville this week have been identified as members of the missing McStay family, who mysteriously vanished from their San Diego County home in February 2010, a relative confirmed to The Times.

San Bernardino County sheriff's officials told a family member Thursday that the remains had been identified as Joseph McStay, 42, and his wife, Summer, 45, according to Patrick McStay, the father of Joseph McStay.

The remains of two additional bodies were also found Monday by a motorcyclist, off-roading through a remote area of San Bernardino County, near Victorville. Those bodies have yet to be identified, but Patrick McStay said he believes they are the couple's two children, Gianni, 4, and Joseph Jr., 3.

Patrick McStay said he has not spoken to officials directly.

A news conference was scheduled for 11 a.m. in San Bernardino County, which San Diego County Sheriff Bill Gore said he would attend.

After the discovery, sheriff's investigators excavated the site, finding two shallow graves holding the skeletal remains of four people.

Friends of Patrick McStay began sending him links to stories about the discovery on Thursday. He had a hunch early on. "I got a cold chill," he said, "and I knew it was them."

The family went missing nearly four years ago, in early 2010. When family and friends had not heard from them for several days, Joseph McStay's brother, Mike McStay, called authorities.

Investigators entering the the house found no sign of a struggle. Neighbors said they hadn't seen them for days and started feeding the family's dogs.

"The bottom line," the lead investigator in the case, Troy Dugal, told The Times in 2011, "was that life was normal for the McStays up to Feb. 4, and on that day they just vanished."

At the time, Joseph was 40 and Summer was a 43-year-old stay-at-home mom, described as fiercely protective of her boys, Gianni and Joseph Jr.

Investigators found out that the family's SUV had been towed from the parking lot of a strip mall in San Ysidro, an hour's drive from the McStay's Fallbrook home and a short walk from a pedestrian crossing into Mexico.

Investigators examined surveillance footage from the border crossing, and among the thousands who crossed the border that day, investigators saw a man holding the hand of a young boy followed by a woman holding the hand of another boy.

Patrick McStay doesn't believe his son crossed into Mexico. "My son didn't walk away," Patrick McStay told The Times on Thursday. "They didn't walk into Mexico. They would never do that."

He said he had suspected foul play early on, and has been highly critical of investigators who, in his view, have done a "lousy job."

McStay said he has been driven by anger and missing his relatives to find out the truth. "The love for my son and my grandchildren and my daughter in law — that's what kept me going. I'm not going to break down and cry. I'll do that later. The anger keeps me going."

He added: "That boy, Joey, he's my oldest son. He wasn't only my son. He was my best damn friend."

Finding the bodies does bring a measure of closure. The mystery of where they ended up has been answered. But that's not enough for his father.

"It's far from being done yet — far from being done," he said. "It won't be done until I find out what happened, and why, and who."

by Anonymousreply 2811/15/2013

So.. no new developements?

by Anonymousreply 2911/15/2013

Is Patrick McStay the skeevy brother?. I wonder if the FBI and the authorities are looking into him.

Someone above said that the McStays had a lot of money so leaving $100K behind in the bank wasn't so unusual. But could someone running a decorative indoor fountain business out of the home make enough to live a flush lifestyle?

I'm amused by the posters who immediately pointed the finger Summer without saying more than she was "shady" "sketchy" and "crazy."

by Anonymousreply 3011/15/2013

Wonder if the family was leaving to try and escape whoever was after them, but didn't manage to.

by Anonymousreply 3111/15/2013

That's an interesting possibility R31. Has anyone done any research on Summer and her family background, why she changed her name several times, etc.? One blogger pointed out that in almost every photo taken she had on dark glasses as if trying to not be recognized. I have heard nothing from any family of hers.

How far away from their abandoned vehicle were their bodies discovered?

by Anonymousreply 3211/15/2013

Wouldn't the name 'Summer McStay' be considered some kind of mysterious clue?

by Anonymousreply 3311/15/2013

I always thought it was ridiculous that they thought that blurry video was of the family.

by Anonymousreply 3411/15/2013

Comment on the Times site:

Just a short hop skip and jump from the location of the bodies is an area called "Skin Head Row" in's begins on Adelanto Road north of Air Expressway.......I drove thru there by accident one day and boy is it a scary's like a ghost town of shacks, dilapidated homes, many were boarded I drove thru people were on their porches stairing at me...(i was surprised people lived there!)...after about a mile the road ends and it's NOTHING but sand bldgs, no structures, no street lights...just open dessert, sand....I turned around and made my way back to Air Expressway...only to find out later from a local at a gas station that i had driven into SKIN HEAD ROW....and that the police had just swept thru there the day before and arrested a bunch of people.....the only other thing in that area is the Federal Prison Complex...but thats gated up like fort knox.....whoever dumped them knew that area well....

by Anonymousreply 3511/15/2013

The whole story is pretty bizarre... mind you, it was never confirmed that the family went into Mexico, there was just some grainy video footage which appeared to be them.

I'm gonna go with murder-suicide. The parents decided to off themselves and take the kids with them. If they were in fear for their lives because someone (or many someones) were after them, I think dropping off the kids with relatives before taking off would have been an obvious move.

I have zero sympathy for the parents. When I first learned the details of the case I couldn't believe anyone would just abandon beloved pets. But that's what they did. I can't come up with any acceptable excuse for that. A murder-suicide theory at least allows you to think that as long as they were ready to get rid of themselves and their children, then any canine considerations were easily dispatched.

They were in despair for some reason. Considered fleeing the country. Settled on "the family being together forever".

That's my theory.

by Anonymousreply 3611/15/2013

r36 - how do you suppose they buried themselves after the kids were killed and then they killed themselves? Can a dead person bury himself?

by Anonymousreply 3711/15/2013

They were murdered, most likely by drug dealers, business partner, or even a sibling though I would go more for a drug dealer/business partner.

by Anonymousreply 3811/15/2013

Wow. I remember seeing the coverage of this story and being fascinated by it.

I guess we will learn the cause of death soon and that will lead to some new theories.

I'm picturing the kids sitting down to watch TV with the bowls of popcorn and then some goons coming in with scary.

by Anonymousreply 3911/15/2013

I think the children were killed because they could possibly identify who the perpetrator was.

They also could of paid off some kind of debt since the husband had money. Wonder if the wife had screwed people over in her past and this was payback.

by Anonymousreply 4011/15/2013

Anyone with questions about the wife-please read this

by Anonymousreply 4111/15/2013

I don't think they were murdered.

by Anonymousreply 4211/15/2013

Why does everyone think it's the wife's past that caught up with her? What was her deal?

by Anonymousreply 4311/15/2013

It's either suicide or natural causes.

by Anonymousreply 4411/15/2013

They read every email, checked their computers. Nothing.

by Anonymousreply 4511/15/2013

The kids killed them.

by Anonymousreply 4611/15/2013

r44 can you please explain how it could possibly be suicide if all four bodies were buried? Also, they must have been transported there if their car wasn't there. How is suicide even remotely possible?

by Anonymousreply 4711/15/2013

They could of buried themselves and then suffocated.

by Anonymousreply 4811/15/2013

r48, could you please demonstrate that for us?


by Anonymousreply 4911/15/2013

r41, that author has egg on his face now and he's admitted it this morning.

by Anonymousreply 5011/15/2013

For all the non-southern californians.

Southern Californians drive through Victorville (on the freeway) on their way to Las Vegas.

The 15 Freeway runs directly through Fallbrook AND Victorville. If you're going to bury a body, the high desert is the place to do it. Miles and miles of nothing but cactus.

Victorville is 100 miles NORTH of Fallbrook.

Mexico (Tijuana) is about 75 miles SOUTH of Fallbrook.

Victorville is where old airplanes go to die.

by Anonymousreply 5111/15/2013

I'm still not sure where everyone's getting the idea that Summer McStay was obviously a criminal because of her past. If her father had been abusive, that alone would explain why she got so mad at her husband for trying to look him up (as the Daily Mail article above said) and also why she changed her name. And if they were as faux New Age as they look in the pictures and with their fountain business, changing your name to Summer isn't all that strange.

Her last names were always Martelli, Aranda, or Aranda-Martelli. Aranda is her maiden name, Martelli from her first marriage. Her first names were Lisa or Summer. This "changing names several times" is a little overblown, since it's really a change of the combination of names.

by Anonymousreply 5211/15/2013

The author of that book sounds like a nutcase.

by Anonymousreply 5311/15/2013

Did the police ever question the husband's business dealings re how he had so much money in the bank? It looks like a kidnapping and murder as retribution with the attacks occurring in Mexico.

by Anonymousreply 5411/15/2013

The parking of the car at the border was quite deliberate, and nearly 200 miles away from the bodies.

Somebody put a lot of thought and effort into it.

by Anonymousreply 5511/15/2013

I just watched the Disappeared episode about this case (see link below). The handsome guy named "McGyver" needs to be investigated, I think, since he was one of the last people to text with Summer McStay.

I also watched the excerpt of Vanished with Beth Holloway Twitty about this case, but was too distracted by Beth's plastic surgery to absorb very much information. What is god's name did Beth do to her top lip?

The brother of the missing man did seem very sincere, however, and his mother's sadness is heartbreaking. She still emails her son regularly, in hopes that he will read the messages one day.

At least now they know that the family didn't voluntarily escape to Mexico----the betrayal of that theory obviously broke their hearts.

I wonder if the family has their dogs now?

by Anonymousreply 5611/15/2013

Yeah, I think the person or persons who did it drove them out to the desert, killed them, then drove back and left the car near the border to make it look as if they'd gone into Mexico. I think it's likely the killers may have even nonchalantly walked back into Mexico.

by Anonymousreply 5711/15/2013

The case has NOTHING to do with Mexico. The car was left at border to throw people off.

by Anonymousreply 5811/15/2013

Who is the McGuyver guy R56 and what is his association with the family? I can't watch the clip right now.

by Anonymousreply 5911/15/2013

Maybe, maybe not R58. They obviously either pissed someone off or got in the way of something.

by Anonymousreply 6011/15/2013

r40, that's what doesn't make sense to me. If you know the Mexican cartels are after you, don't you know your kids are also in danger? This is especially true if they are with you.

Why not drop them off with a relative? Frankly, even abandoning them at their daycare or a neighbour might be safer.

I wonder why the case heated up again. It sounds like a prison informant wanted to shave some time of his/her sentence.

by Anonymousreply 6111/15/2013

Maybe the McGyver dude was the one who did those computer searches about Mexico on the computer, since he was in their house painting.

It is so strange that no one touched their money....

Their was video footage from the neighbor across the street of the white Izuzu Trooper pulling out of their garage, but the video only shows the body of the car, and not the window area. With the two child seats in there, there wasn't much room for other people in the car. They also had large toys in the back of the car, taking up more space (mini kitchen appliances for kids).

And there were no cars following them out of the driveway, and I don't think they found any blood or other evidence in the car. So that is even more strange....if the McStays weren't in their car, then how did they leave the house?

by Anonymousreply 6211/15/2013

McGyver was listed as "a friend" of Summer's...

He said that she was having trouble with the paint contractor---he "just disappeared" so McGyver stepped in to help them finish painting. The house was in mid-renovation and there were paint chips all over the place, as the family worked on the new decor.

When the family vanished, there were also open paint cans in the house. What painter would leave the cans open?

by Anonymousreply 6311/15/2013

They found a few fur coats, no shoes, four shirts in the house.

by Anonymousreply 6411/15/2013

True if someone had come in with guns and forced them to leave why didn't the cameras show people entering the house? Did they sneak through the back? It's also possible they were followed and taken out on the road. So many questions.

by Anonymousreply 6511/15/2013

What doesn't make any sense is killing the entire family.

by Anonymousreply 6611/15/2013

How did no one in the neighborhood catch this? Wouldn't dogs be barking and shit?

Didn't they have people working on their house. I promise you it was them.

by Anonymousreply 6711/15/2013

If it were a kidnapping, standard procedure is you take the kids so the parents can come up with the money.

These CAN end with everyone getting killed when you show up with the ransom (no witnesses), but there was no evidence of any money ever being withdrawn.

by Anonymousreply 6811/15/2013

On the Websleuths forum, some posters have theorized that Israel Keyes was involved. I have no idea how plausible that could be, but apparently he did spend time in that area.

by Anonymousreply 6911/15/2013

The neighbors heard the dogs barking and called Animal Control. I guess since the family was new to the neighborhood the neighbors had low tolerance for the situation.

The brother dropped by the house a few times and saw a bag of dog food in the backyard, and fresh water, so he thought they left town and had someone watching the dogs for them. After about a week he broke in to the house and didn't see anything strange, and thought they must be taking a spur-of-the-moment vacation or something. (He didn't notice the eggs on the counter or the bowls of popcorn on the futon.)

Then somehow he spoke to Animal Control, who said after ten days of being left outside they were going to pick up the dogs and take them to the shelter. (Animal control had been dropping by to feed and water the dogs...) Then the brother called the police, after hearing that.

The autopsies should provide some clues, right?

by Anonymousreply 7011/15/2013

Who is Israel Keyes?

by Anonymousreply 7111/15/2013

If they were involved in illegal activity, they probably didn't have all of their assets in a bank account. If they were involved in illegal activity and they were kidnapped, who would the kidnappers contact? The shifty brother?

by Anonymousreply 7211/15/2013

Prolific, wide ranging serial killer.

by Anonymousreply 7311/15/2013

There's a lot of fishy info about Mrs. Summer McStay. What was her real name? Why did she have so many aliases?

by Anonymousreply 7411/15/2013

Bodies will show knife or bullet wounds if they hit a bone.

If the bodies were buried with bullets still in them, the bullets will be found among the remains.

Ballistics can match the bullets to the gun IF the gun is/has ever been found in use with another crime.

They would also be able to tell if more than one gun was used.

The more people involved, the more loose ends in the case.

by Anonymousreply 7511/15/2013

Lisa Aranda (aka Summer McStay) changed her name 5 or 6 times. She's involved in this somehow. According to the DM article linked above she threatened her husband when he tried to find her bio-dad. Threatened his life. Is she the child of a Mexican druglord? Why did she change her name so often?

by Anonymousreply 7611/15/2013

R74, read R52.

by Anonymousreply 7711/15/2013

A psycho Ex husband or boyfriend of the wife would at least make sense for killing the entire family.

"If I can't have you, nobody will!"

Happens far too often.

by Anonymousreply 7811/15/2013

I know Summer wanted to keep her dad out if it, but the authorities need to track his ass down, pronto, to determine what role he might have played in all of this.

by Anonymousreply 7911/15/2013

My theory: bf of Lisa Aranda who claimed to have money but was nefarious. Lisa was not happy in that marriage, she found someone else. Another site claimed she was looking for a homeopathic remedy for "anger" on the internet. Her bf/affair is probably the one that had her and the husband killed. He probably has ties to a MX cartel.

by Anonymousreply 8011/15/2013

[quote]Who is Israel Keyes?

Good question. If there was only a way to search on this internets thing....hmmmm

by Anonymousreply 8111/15/2013

[quote]In the Currier murders, he flew to Chicago, and there rented a car to drive the 1000 additional miles to Vermont. He then used the murder kit he had hidden two years earlier to perform the murders.[21]

From R73's link. So did he target them two years prior to their murder or was it just a coincidence that he left a murder kit near their house? Where the fuck did he hide it where no one would find it?

by Anonymousreply 8211/15/2013

If the Mexican cartels were after them, they wouldn't have walked IN to Mexico. And don't cartels usually like to have bodies found so it sends a message?

by Anonymousreply 8311/15/2013

FBI says it's a homicide Doubtful the skin heads did it Doubt they would have let strange bad guys use their burial ground They were found by a biker

The oldest boy had an Italian name: Gianni The second was a junior

Agree she was running, hiding, but doubt she would have jeopardized her sons She was fiercely protective

They left the dogs in the yard Someone fed them What jerk cares more about dogs when 2 young boys were murdered

Oh right This is datalounge

by Anonymousreply 8411/15/2013

I don't think the skin heads would kill little kids.

by Anonymousreply 8511/15/2013

Why are you linking them to skinheads R84?

by Anonymousreply 8611/15/2013

I think because where they were found is called Skinhead Alley by the locals r84

by Anonymousreply 8711/15/2013

Israel Keyes? When was he in their area?

by Anonymousreply 8811/15/2013

Not sure if this means he was in their area

"On December seventeenth, he flies from Anchorage into Orlando, Florida. There was no record of a rental car, and he flies home on the twenty-ninth. January eleventh through February twenty-fifth of 2010, he travels through the Western United States.

Conflicting information was released from the FBI and via the Anchorage Police Department as far as his travels.

On July seventh, he flies from Anchorage to Seattle and rents a vehicle. He visits Neah Bay, then flies out of Seattle on the ninth, destined for Sacramento, California. He rents another vehicle and puts 232 miles on it, then departs Sacramento and returns home on the twelfth of July. July twentieth, he flies into Las Vegas, Nevada for two days. October fifteenth, he flies from Anchorage to Boston, Massachusetts, with a layover in Chicago, Illinois. Once in Boston, he rents a vehicle and puts an unknown number of miles on the car. He flies home ten days later."

by Anonymousreply 8911/15/2013

That Isreal Keyes blog link is like a black hole. It is obsessive reading. Very well done.

Bravo to the writer.

I found the following in the discussion of his where-abouts prior to 2007--in 2006, I think.

September first, he flies to Anchorage and stays through seventh. On October twenty-first, he flies From Seattle into San Diego. He has no known rental car, but he walks across the border into San Ysidro, Mexico, on the twenty-second. He leaves San Diego the following day. November eighth, he flies to Anchorage again. He stays for about a week and flies back to Washington

by Anonymousreply 9011/15/2013

Jane Velez Mitchell started slinging shade at the McStay husband within 10 minutes of the start of tonight's show.

She implied there was "talk" about the fountains being imported by the McStay husband being filled with drugs.

And she mentioned Summer's frequent name changes.

Not a lot of sympathy from Jane for the McStay parents. But I realized I've been assuming that the family was immediately killed, but the people on Jane's show implied that maybe they did go to Mexico, and then came back to be killed.

Jane said that the road they were found on is the famous LA - Vegas route we see in the movies and I thought, I know...I read it on Datalounge.

by Anonymousreply 9111/15/2013

In 2005, the husband emails the wife this:

[quote]‘I guess you think so little of me...very sad & hurt...I am under a tremendous amount of pressure and now this...‘...I did electrical all day hands are cut, my back hurts just to make some $$$ other than bartending 2 very long shifts....I don’t get it...’

(It's from the Daily Fail - I don't know what the fight was about or what else was said in the email.)

Five years later, in 2010, they have a hundred grand in the bank, a new house and are known to have so much money that walking away from that hundred grand was considered plausible.

They didn't get that kind of money, that fast, with an at-home fountain business. The parents were obviously drug smugglers. It got them all killed, one way or another. Either they pissed off their business associates or some enterprising psycho figured they were hiding money/drugs in the house and killed them for it.

by Anonymousreply 9211/15/2013

Don't most Mexican drug cartels like to flaunt their revenge killings? Why go through all the trouble of burying them in the desert and staging the car near the border if it was done by a cartel who has no problem hanging bodies off of overpasses in Mexico?

Also, if you're not going to flaunt the murders, why murder the kids? For spite and punishment toward the parents?

With the way that the house was left, it seems all but obvious that they were ambushed during a routine day, tied up and kidnapped, driven out to the desert and killed and buried, and then their car driven to the border to make it look like they fled voluntarily.

I'm leaning more towards the dad stumbling upon something he shouldn't have and his family was killed as a result to keep them quiet. The fact that the entire family was killed could indicate that the killer(s) is well known to the family and needed to eliminate all potential witnesses.

We should just let go the whole Mexico discussion at this point. They never made it to Mexico. Hell, I sometimes look up vacations on long, stressful days when I need a break from the grind.

by Anonymousreply 9311/15/2013

Dan the webmaster for mcstays fountain company killed them. He was taking money out of the accounts days after they were last seen. M

by Anonymousreply 9411/15/2013

[quote]Who is Israel Keyes?

Alicia Keyes's father.

by Anonymousreply 9511/15/2013

One body had electrical cord around it.

by Anonymousreply 9611/16/2013

Presenting hole.

by Anonymousreply 9711/16/2013

[quote]I'm leaning more towards the dad stumbling upon something he shouldn't have and his family was killed as a result to keep them quiet. The fact that the entire family was killed could indicate that the killer(s) is well known to the family and needed to eliminate all potential witnesses.

I've thought the same thing more than once. Maybe his business partner was smuggling drugs in their shipments and Joseph found out and confronted him. I do think they need to look at the partner a little deeper.

by Anonymousreply 9811/16/2013

This makes me think of that Fastball song, "The Way." It always gave me the creeps.

by Anonymousreply 9911/16/2013

Wasn't there a suggestion that one of their workers at the house had white supremecist ties? Sad for the family but this is a good story.

by Anonymousreply 10011/16/2013

[quote] Why go through all the trouble of burying them in the desert and staging the car near the border if it was done by a cartel who has no problem hanging bodies off of overpasses in Mexico?

Because it's not the cartels, it's the CIA black ops who are doing the gruesome murders. We're running a drug war in Mexico. Think about it -- drugs have been coming into the US from Mexico for decades. It's only recently this whole gruesome "cartel murders" business has started. It's become more violent as our involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan have slowed down.

The business of the US is war. We're making war in Mexico and Nigeria.

Businesses needed cheap labor from south of the border for years. But we've sent so many factory and unskilled (as well as skilled) jobs overseas that we no longer need hundreds of thousands of undocumented workers entering the US every year. The illegal alien pipeline needs to be shut down now that big business doesn't need the workers. Best way to shut it down, yet still manage to make money? With a drug war.

We make money importing and selling the drugs as we make money fighting the drug war. It's a win-win. We're on both sides of a war we started.

by Anonymousreply 10111/16/2013

[quote] Five years later, in 2010, they have a hundred grand in the bank, a new house and are known to have so much money that walking away from that hundred grand was considered plausible.

That's not all that unusual. One of my neighbors got a job working as a truck driver for a top landscaping firm that specialized in planting mature trees. A few years later he bought his own truck, picked up day laborers at 711 and started his own landscaping business. Four years after that, he rented a huge plot of land here in the Hamptons and planted tons of trees and bushes on it with a giant hand-carved sign, "Smith Farms Nursery." You have to have megabucks to rent that much land. Plus, he added onto his house so that it's now 3 times the previous size.

He's not a drug dealer. He lucked into a business that grew like crazy as the one percent made more and more money. The same thing has happened with people who worked for pool companies, irrigation and water feature installing companies. You wouldn't think someone who worked for a pool company or putting in lawn sprinklers or installing ponds and outdoor waterfalls could be running their own lucrative businesses in a few years, but they are. The guy who put in my sprinkler system couldn't keep up with all the new business after he opened his own company. The guy was a high school grad who worked for a sprinkler company starting in his teens. By the time he was 26, he was paying the commuting costs of relatives in Brooklyn to come out and learn how to put in sprinkler lines so he could have a day off. He needed to run the money side of the business rather than be out in the field.

There's a lot of cheap labor out there and if you open a business that can rely on cheap labor, you can make a lot of money pretty quickly.

by Anonymousreply 10211/16/2013

[quote] He lucked into

Operative words.

by Anonymousreply 10311/16/2013

Wait R101, you're suggesting that the CIA is killing entire families including small children and little babies to keep the illegal pipeline down???

by Anonymousreply 10411/16/2013

[quote]Wasn't there a suggestion that one of their workers at the house had white supremecist ties? Sad for the family but this is a good story.

I think that was the Jamisons.

by Anonymousreply 10511/16/2013

R101 needs to put the crackpipe down.

by Anonymousreply 10611/16/2013

It was the Jamisons R105. Wasn't the guy also renting a room from them and expressed disapproval over her Native American blood or something?

by Anonymousreply 10711/16/2013

[quote] Wait [R101], you're suggesting that the CIA is killing entire families including small children and little babies to keep the illegal pipeline down???

No. I don't believe this family was murdered by CIA/cartels. They were either murdered by someone they know or murdered by someone who was hired by someone they know.

I said the CIA is behind the drug war. Go back and read. You are the one who assumes that these people were killed somehow because of the drug war/cartel. There is no evidence of such a thing.

There's nothing tying this family to any drug cartel. Lots of people have shady finances and aren't involved in drug cartels.

by Anonymousreply 10811/16/2013

R108 I don't think he was talking about the McStay family so much as families killed by cartels in Mexico.

by Anonymousreply 10911/16/2013

Can't remember the guy's name, but I think he was an employee of hubby's, and he was found to be writing checks on the business account very soon after they disappeared. Looks like he has the motive for their murder.

by Anonymousreply 11011/16/2013

Interesting R110. Where did you hear that? I do hope this restarts the investigation. I've been suspicious of the business partner from the beginning.

by Anonymousreply 11111/16/2013

Dan Kavanaugh is the guy whi killed them. google him. He took money from their accounts before they were even reported missing.

by Anonymousreply 11211/16/2013

so think you have problems; needing a few extra bucks (or maybe more); aging parents, a job market that's not going so well...

these poor people. they must have been terrified.

by Anonymousreply 11311/16/2013

No R101, I didn't assume they were killed by a drug cartel. I assume they were killed by stumbling upon something they shouldn't have and it hadn't even crossed my mind that it could be drugs/Mexico/etc. I assume that it's a business partner thing or a personal relationship where they happened to find out something they shouldn't have.

My question to you was regarding your statement that there are no drug cartels but rather the CIA murdering everyone in Mexico, including entire families with small children and infants, decapitating them, hanging them from an overpass, torturing them etcetcetc.

If the CIA were doing this, it seems much more efficient to just execute people rather than spend our resources torturing and killing innocent children in such a public way.

by Anonymousreply 11411/16/2013

Agree with R114. The CIA would be much more efficient. I'm not saying the CIA isn't involved in getting drugs in and out of this country but the cartels are doing their own killing.

by Anonymousreply 11511/17/2013

Anymore news?

by Anonymousreply 11611/17/2013

[quote] the CIA murdering everyone in Mexico, including entire families with small children and infants, decapitating them, hanging them from an overpass, torturing them etcetcetc.

Why not? They hire murderers and psychopaths to kill. These lovely Americans would be perfect hires for Black Ops if only they hadn't caused a group of military contractors to get killed in Iraq as vengeance for the acts they committed:

Spc. James P. Barker of Fresno, California, testified that he pitched the idea of going to the al-Janabi family's home to Sgt. Paul E. Cortez of Barstow, California, who was in charge of the traffic checkpoint.

Green, who talked frequently of wanting to kill Iraqis, was brought along.

Cortez testified that Barker and Green had the idea of having sex with the girl and that he didn't know the family would be killed.

Green, then a private, said he had 'an altered state of mind' at the time. 'I wasn't thinking about more than 10 minutes into the future at any given time,' Green said. 'I didn't care.'

At the Iraqi home, Barker and Cortez pulled Abeer (a 14 year old girl) into one room, while Green held the mother, father and youngest daughter (age 3) in another.

Pfc. Jesse V. Spielman, of Chambersburg, Pennsylvania, stood guard in the hall. As Barker and Cortez raped the teen, Green shot the three family members, killing them.

He then went into the next room and raped Abeer, before shooting her in the head. The soldiers lit her remains on fire before leaving. Another soldier stood watch a few miles away at the checkpoint.


The CIA hires all nationalities as assassins. They don't have to be American, but even if they *did* have to be American, we have plenty of prospects.

by Anonymousreply 11711/17/2013

I think you're making it much more complicated R117. I'm going with someone close to the family. Dan Kavanaugh was funneling money from their account to his right after they disappeared. My money is on him.

by Anonymousreply 11811/17/2013

I have often thought about this case since I had first heard of it on an episode of Disappeared. I think you are right, r118. I hope an arrest can made soon. Do we know if he is on the run already?

by Anonymousreply 11911/17/2013

Not sure what he's doing R119. Not much talk about him. I hope the police have him on their radar.

I did see this link though.

by Anonymousreply 12011/17/2013

If it was someone close to the family, I think they hired professionals to do the job. A first-time killer would not have been been so adept at throwing LE off the trail and covering his tracks.

by Anonymousreply 12111/17/2013

Again, nobody said this family was killed by the CIA.

What was said was that the CIA is behind the drug war and cartels in Mexico.

And that's why this family was not killed by "the cartels", aka Black Ops drug war people. First, the family was killed in the US; second, the cartels kill Mexicans and Mexican Americans in the US (neither McStay parent was Mexican); and third, the cartels do not bury their dead. Ergo, this family was not killed by the CIA cartels.

It was either a random run-of-the-mill American killing (eg, a botched home robbery or botched carjacking or a random crazed serial/spree killer) or they were killed by someone they know or by person/s hired by someone they know.

The manner of death and hiding of the remains shows it was not cartel/CIA behind it.

So, let's review: They were not killed by the "cartels" which are really run by the CIA. Do you find it hard to believe the CIA runs the drug war in Mexico? Do you think we didn't run a war in Nicaragua and in El Salvador where we killed entire villages, let alone entire families? We killed nuns and priests in those countries and wiped out thousands of men, women and children.

All we're saying is that the drug war, aka the "cartels" are run by us. And we wouldn't have done this murder. It serves no purpose. Cartel/Black Ops murders are to be put on public display, a trick the CIA borrowed from the jihadists in Iran and Pakistan who publicized their beheadings on video.

by Anonymousreply 12211/17/2013

[quote] A first-time killer would not have been been so adept at throwing LE off the trail and covering his tracks

Depends on LE.

This LE entity in this case seemed lazy. They did not want to spend a lot of time and resources on this case. Like may idiots on the internet, they looked at the McStays and said, "These people are weirdos. The wife is foul-mouthed and argues with her husband. They don't cut the kids' hair. They don't have appliances yet. Fuck them, they took off on their own. Good chance the bitch dark-skinned wife had the husband killed and took off to Mexico with the kids and her new man. We're done here."

The cultural biases of LE directed their "investigation." The family repeatedly said their loved ones would not have taken off like that and gone to Mexico or anywhere else. And really, those were just shadows on the border crossing video. The shadows didn't look like anybody. But it was easy to say, "Oh yeah, that's probably them. They took off."

by Anonymousreply 12311/17/2013

Perhaps, R121, but sometimes first time killers just get "lucky" and their victims are never found or not found for years. A carjacking makes no sense as the car was found abandoned. It was likely someone they knew and almost surely someone who was familiar with the area, to know where to dump bodies without being discovered. Have they released the cause of death yet?

by Anonymousreply 12411/17/2013

First Google result that comes up for Dan.

by Anonymousreply 12511/17/2013

I would have thought murder suicide but it wasn't. It wasn't a cartel either. Don't say they had plenty of money from fountains. Why were they driving such an old automobile?

by Anonymousreply 12611/17/2013

I find Summer's anger in the email interesting, and her husband's surprise at it. She seems very freaked out at the prospect of her husband trying to find out information about her father or find him.

I think it's possible her father had ties to a cartel and her husband, with good intention and not realizing why, kept prying and either her father found them or cartel looking for her father found them. It is one of the few explanations for how freaked out she is in the letter.

by Anonymousreply 12711/17/2013

Has Summer's mother ever spoken up and what about her Dad? Her background seems very mysterious.

by Anonymousreply 12811/17/2013

Maybe they had a sociopathic neighbor, who hated the parents and since it was a sociopath, killed the kids too. There must be some attachment to the neighborhood they lived in and was killed in. Probably graves were dug first.

Cops did a lousy job of the investigation.

by Anonymousreply 12911/17/2013

It's been almost 4 years, can't we just move on?

by Anonymousreply 13011/17/2013

Hey r130! They just found the bodies!

by Anonymousreply 13111/17/2013

Why did they e-mail each other? She was a housewife and he worked at home, so why would there be e-mails between them?

by Anonymousreply 13211/17/2013

Just saw this from the comments section of the LA Times.

[quote]By the way; my comment will be proved within the next 96 hours or so. Dan's home, bank, cellular records, and computers have already been searched/confiscated by the cops and FBI.

by Anonymousreply 13311/17/2013

I believe it was someone who was working in the house someone who just wanted to kill.

Don't expect dogs to always alert the household or neighbors. Many bark for no reason...if they sense something really bad, they might just keep quite.

by Anonymousreply 13411/17/2013

R75 is retarded or drunk.

by Anonymousreply 13511/17/2013

EXCLUSIVE - Mystery of the McStay money: Family found dead in a shallow grave could barely afford modest rent despite having $100,000 in the bank

by Anonymousreply 13611/17/2013

What's LE?

by Anonymousreply 13711/17/2013

The younger brother removed the computer from the home before the police could access its files. Why? Since the McStays were importing some goods from Mexico, were they pressured into laundering money or receiving drugs as well?

Mexican Mafia and cartels have been known to kill entire families but they display the bodies as a warning to others, rather than hiding victims by burying them.

Since the little kids were killed it's likely they could have identified the murderer. Too bad the parents couldn't have dropped them off with another relative before meeting whomever. Dan the business partner who sold the company amid serious complaints of fraud is a likely suspect.

There is also a possible White skinhead drug connection, because where they were buried is near a prison and major meth labs.

by Anonymousreply 13811/17/2013

LE = Law Enforcement

by Anonymousreply 13911/17/2013

There was footage from a camera attached to a resident's home that captured them driving at 7:47 PM the day they disappeared. Was the footage ever made public?

by Anonymousreply 14011/17/2013

It's like something out of Breaking Bad. Remember the episode when the little kid on the dirt bike was killed because he was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

by Anonymousreply 14111/17/2013

They imported the fountains from Mexico? Ahhhh. Ok there is definitely really something fishy up with them, particularly their finances.

My theory - her father is in a Mexican cartel & the husband had hooked up with him to bring in stuff - fountains, drugs, etc.

by Anonymousreply 14211/17/2013

BTW has anyone interviewed HER family at all? Why are just his father, his brother, his mother in the media? Where are her family members?

by Anonymousreply 14311/17/2013

Law Enforcement can be extremely lazy even in high profile cases, they just ignore information given to them.

Examples: in Kansas City a little girl's head was found in a trash bag, later her body was found in the same wooded area, bagged as well. Photos of a birth mark were distributed to the media. A bust of her head was developed showing what she would look like...nothing came of it. A couple of years later the mother and boyfriend are arrested but not because of police work. The little girl's grandparents had notified KC police twice saying "that is our granddaughter, this is her mother's name, this is her address". The police ignored the grandparents in Arkansas, it was not until the grandparents contacted Alvin Brooks of the Ad Hoc group for crime and he forced the police to look into it. The mother and boyfriend were arrested and DNA proved they were the parents.

by Anonymousreply 14411/17/2013

Looks like Dan Kavanaugh's the most likely killer.

I generally think of grifters and con-artists as non-violent criminals but that's a mistake. They lack a conscience in one area, making it easier to lack a conscience in other areas. They do end up murdering people they're stealing from. Still, killing two children under five years old? Sick fuck.

by Anonymousreply 14511/17/2013

The second example:

Ali Kemp murdered at a swimming pool. Witnesses told the cops a construction worker would park his truck across from the pool and gave a description and the make and model of the truck. Some people said this is the guy etc. Billboards showed the artist's sketch, a sketch of the truck etc., a couple of years later someone on the east coast goes to the police and says "hey acquaintance was drunk and told me he murdered Ali Kemp". So the detectives from here go and interview the guy and bring him back. Turns out they interviewed this guy at the time of the murder and had his DNA from the scene, he looked exactly like the guy in the sketches.

Baby Lisa Erwin: people say it has to be the parents because the cops would have found evidence, yeah right. The local news showed some fat cop sitting by the hotline phone and he didn't even hide his contempt and boredom with the tips he was receiving, and he knew he was on camera.

by Anonymousreply 14611/17/2013

I can't believe the Daily Mail is using a photo of the bones, that seems unnecessary.

by Anonymousreply 14711/17/2013

Dan Kavanaugh was the first person to call the cops, even though he seems odd, I don't think he did it.

by Anonymousreply 14811/17/2013

R147, let's censor the media!

by Anonymousreply 14911/17/2013

I can't imagine picking up two dead kids under five's bodies and dumping them. That is so creepy. You really need to be a sociopath in order to do that, and it sounds as though they may have been strangled. Clothes were found too.

by Anonymousreply 15011/17/2013

It wasn't Dan. That was pure bullshit from Rick Baker's book. There is absolutely nothing there to speculate.

by Anonymousreply 15111/17/2013

Looks like the remains of the Jamisons have been located.

by Anonymousreply 15211/17/2013

(From the Daily Mail. I know how a lot of DLers feel about the site so I copied and pasted the article)

EXCLUSIVE - Mystery of the McStay family money

The McStay family - whose bodies were found in a shallow grave in the Californian desert almost four years after they mysteriously vanished - could barely afford to pay $210 a week on rent just months before they disappeared with $100,000 in the bank, it was claimed today.

Joseph and Summer McStay were also apparently being chased by debt collection agents, the IRS, and lawyers representing business clients they owed money to.

Despite their apparent financial difficulties, they managed to find the cash to buy a $320,000 house around two months before they vanished on February 4 2010. They also had $100,000 in the bank when they vanished which remained untouched.

Some have suggested the family of four were killed by a Mexican cartel because of a business deal that went bad. For years it was believed they had fled to Mexico after CCTV footage was discovered apparently showing them crossing the border on foot, four days after they went missing.

Now MailOnline has been given new information suggesting Joseph and Summer were barely able to keep up with payments for a modest rent on a small two bedroom apartment in San Clemente, California.

They lived in the property for around five years until just three or four months before their disappearance. Their landlord was apparently desperate to throw them out because they were constantly behind with the payments.

But despite that, when they left the apartment, they bought a $320,000 house in nearby Fallbrook and had $100,000 in the bank. Joseph's fountain making company Earth Inspired Products was their main source of income.

The man who took over the rent at their old place is former US marine Dave White. He lived on the same street before moving into their old place and knew the family.

Mr White, 54, who now drives school buses said: 'I knew the landlord on the place before I moved in as I used to be handyman and I did some odd jobs around the place for him. I lived around ten houses up the street, so I knew the McStay’s to say hello to.

'From what I understand, before they moved out they were on the verge of being evicted, because they were behind on their rent. That was three years ago.

'After I moved in I got a lot of their mail, which they obviously hadn’t redirected. I kept getting letters from attorney's representing a doctor's surgery outside of California.

'Apparently they had paid Mr McStay $14,000 up front to build a fountain and ship it out to them. But they obviously didn’t get anything. After the family went missing they weren’t going to get their fountain, but I think the letters started when they were still around.

'I also got letters from the IRS and debt collectors chasing them as well, but the majority of those came after they had vanished. I guess a lot of these people didn't realize they'd gone missing.

'It's hard to say how many of these debts came because they went missing and how many were owed before, but I really can’t explain how they went from not being able to pay $850 a month to buying a house and having $100,000 in the bank.'

And it seems the McStay's apparent inability to pay their rent was not the first time they had run into financial difficulty. In 1992 Joseph had a small claims judgement of just over $5,000 against him from an associate who took him court.

Then in 1999 Joseph, his older brother Michael and sister Heather had a legal dispute with a company In San Francisco.

At the time they were running a company called Dana Point Fountains and a firm called Zen Again Productions took them to the District Court.

In 2004 Joseph seemed to run into more trouble, filing for bankruptcy with California Central Court in Santa Ana. The bankruptcy was discharged around three months later.


by Anonymousreply 15311/18/2013


Joseph's business dealings have come under scrutiny in the past in relation to his disappearance.

Back in 2010 CBS News claimed detectives were looking into his association with an ex con called Chase Merritt.

The former metal worker and welder was Joseph's business partner and he was one of the first people to notice the family were missing Department of Corrections records show Merritt served time in prison for a burglary conviction in 1978. He was then sent back to prison in 1987 for receiving stolen property, according to State records.

An acquaintance who knew Merritt in the 1980s told CBS News 8 he has a checkered past. 'I think police should look at him and anyone associated with him,' the female acquaintance said. She asked not to be identified.

Joseph's financial history certainly raises questions, but fails to provide any real answers as to why they disappeared without trace almost four years ago.

On Thursday February 4, 2010 Mr McStay – who was then 40 - had a meeting in Rancho Cucamonga about a fountain Earth Inspired Products was building. Summer, 43, was at home with Gianni, 4; Joey Jr., 3, known as Chubba; and the two dogs, Bear and Digger.

Strangely Summer had several different aliases including Summer Martelli, Summer McStay and Lisa Aranda Martelli. She was actually christened Lisa Virginia Aranda.

The couple had only bought their new five-bedroom home in Fallbrook about two months earlier, leaving their apartment in San Clemente. They were both licensed real-estate agents and purchased it out of foreclosure for about $320,000.

Apparently they planned to renovate the property, sell it for a profit and move back to the coast. Later on the Thursday they disappeared Summer made plans to meet her sister Tracy.

Interestingly she then used the home computer to search for homeopathic anger management medication.

At 7:47 p.m., a neighbor's surveillance camera captured the bottom 18-inches of what appears to be the family's white Isuzu Trooper going by. About 40 minutes later, on his cellphone, Joseph called a co-worker.

That is the last known contact between the family and the outside world.


by Anonymousreply 15411/18/2013

(continued) On February 10, Sheriff's deputies went to the house for the first time after Chase Merritt called to report that Mr McStay was not responding to phone calls or emails. The deputy knocked on the door, but left after seeing nothing suspicious.

Three days later Mr McStay's brother Mike came over and climbed through an unlocked window. The family's beloved dogs were still there, which baffled Mike, but he tried not to assume the worst.

On entry to the property he found a carton of eggs and a rotten banana on the kitchen counter, child-size bowls of popcorn in the living room near the TV, Summer's prescription sunglasses.

There were no signs of a struggle and every indication was that they had left in a hurry, but there was no clue as to why.

Their car was then discovered in a shopping center parking lot in San Ysidro, just north of the Mexican border. It had apparently been there since around 6pm on February 8.

The theory that they left voluntarily has always been dismissed by Joseph and Summer's parents, who have said they were too safety conscious to take their children across the border on foot. 'My son didn't walk away,' Joseph's father, Patrick McStay, said. 'They didn't walk into Mexico. They would never do that.'

Others have raised the question, why would they leave a property, pets, two vehicles, $100,000 in bank accounts without any explanation?

That led to another theory, championed by police, that they left voluntarily, but when they got across the border something happened to them. 'We have not discovered any evidence leading us to believe a crime has occurred thus far,' said Lt. Glenn Giannantonio. 'There has been no evidence to show us that the disappearance is anything other than a family being missing of their own free will.'

Other the years numerous sightings have been reported, all over the United States and Mexico. Even Mr White believes he may have seen Summer outside their old apartment. He said: 'One day, about six months after they went missing I came back from work and saw a lady sitting in her car across from my place.

'It looked just like Summer and when she saw me she drove off. I thought maybe she'd come back to try to get some important mail or something. I couldn't get the license plate and because I couldn't be 100 per cent sure it was her I did not report it.'

The case remained open, but nothing concrete was ever established and leads began to dry up.


by Anonymousreply 15511/18/2013


That did not stop amateur sleuths trying their hand at cracking the case. The most prominent of these has been former radio show host Rick Baker, who lived in Fallbrook around the time of the disappearance

Law enforcement expert John Carman says the shallow graves the McStays were found in and their close proximity to a busy freeway tells him it was not a professional hit.

'If it was real important, they'd probably go deeper or do worse,' said Carman. 'They were in a hurry and once they're on 15, north or south they're out of there.'

On Friday San Bernardino County Sheriff John McMahon played down cartel involvement, saying 'It's too early to tell if it's cartel-related or any other suspects.'

That is a view supported by Rick Baker. 'Why would they stage their car at the border, cartels don’t do that,' he said. 'Someone killed all four and wanted them to think the family crossed the border.'

He went on to say: 'Did Joey have enemies? Maybe a couple. Were they the kind of enemy that would want to kill him? I didn't see that.'

And he is now claiming his law enforcement sources close to the McStay case are keeping the details of their deaths out of the public domain. He said: 'One of the bodies, either Summer or Joseph, their hands had been bound.' That has yet to be officially confirmed or denied.

Since the discovery of the bodies, Joseph's father Patrick has gone on the offensive, branding the police operation into his family's disappearance, the most, 'botched, inept investigation I've ever seen in my entire life.' He also called the San Diego Sheriff's Office, which spearheaded the operation, the, 'dumbest, most corrupt organization he has seen.'

Whatever the reality and whoever is to blame, the only true facts are that a family is dead.

by Anonymousreply 15611/18/2013

why not just link?


by Anonymousreply 15711/18/2013

Holy shit.

So where did all that money come from? Broke one month and then buying a $320,000 house the next, with $100,000 left over?

The only thing I can think of is they stole the money and thought they could get away with it.

Dunno, this is weirder and weirder

by Anonymousreply 15811/18/2013

I prefer not having to click on a link.

by Anonymousreply 15911/18/2013

[quote]They lack a conscience in one area, making it easier to lack a conscience in other areas.

A conscience is one thing, if they lack a conscience they lack a conscience. Maybe you mean if they lack ethics in one area it is easier to lack ethics in other areas?

by Anonymousreply 16011/18/2013

[quote] Broke one month and then buying a $320,000 house the next

They didn't pay cash for the house. They financed it and I think it was foreclosed after they went missing

by Anonymousreply 16111/18/2013

Lazy, inept police department.

by Anonymousreply 16211/18/2013

As somebody commented - I think it was on the comments to the link which I read yesterday - most of this new story about the collection notices and non-payment of rent comes from one source - a former neighbor who moved into their old apartment and received their mail. I wouldn't read too much into the collection notices. I work at a law firm specializing in trusts and estates and it's common to get dunning notices from creditors (including IRS) if there is any hold-up in probate (meaning nobody to pay the bills).

The McStays may have been involved in some sketchy stuff but without knowing more details, collection notices aren't proof of anything.

by Anonymousreply 16311/18/2013

I don't remember where I read it, but I'm pretty sure it was reported that they paid $30,000 down and financed the rest.

by Anonymousreply 16411/18/2013

So it's possible that they had as little as $200 thousand...maybe they settled a lawsuit and didn't tell their family?

It was a foreclosure, maybe the previous homeowner was angry?

by Anonymousreply 16511/18/2013

How strange! As R152 mentioned, now the remains have of the Jamison family have been found.

by Anonymousreply 16611/18/2013

[quote]BTW has anyone interviewed HER family at all? Why are just his father, his brother, his mother in the media? Where are her family members?

I'm curious about this too. Where the hell are they?

by Anonymousreply 16711/18/2013

R167, I have seen Summer's sister interviewed but no other family members.

by Anonymousreply 16811/18/2013

I appreciate having that entire article posted like that. Thank you, kind poster.

I know in advance that I will be glued to HLN this week due to the recovery of the McStay bodies, and also the Jamisons. These stories fascinate me and I know the details will be juicy.

I made a deal with myself to walk on the treadmill every night while I watch Nancy Grace so I don't feel as guilty about wasting so much time.

by Anonymousreply 16911/18/2013

Who are the Jamisons?

by Anonymousreply 17011/18/2013

Another missing family whose remains were discovered this week.

by Anonymousreply 17111/18/2013

Sorry wrong link.

Try this one.

by Anonymousreply 17211/18/2013

Thanks, I had never heard of them.

by Anonymousreply 17311/18/2013

The house is going into foreclosure at this time.

by Anonymousreply 17411/19/2013


EXCLUSIVE - Best friend, business partner and suspect: Man who was last to see McStay father alive breaks silence to reveal new clues in mystery murder of family who vanished


by Anonymousreply 17511/20/2013

The mobile phone belonging to Summer McStay registered its final call at 4:42 that same Thursday afternoon. Disconcertingly, though, her phone continued to receive text messages after the disappearance – eight, in total. Three texts sent by family friend McGyver McCargar arrived on Friday. The last four texts, including two messages from Dan Kavanaugh, an associate of Joseph McStay, arrived on Saturday. The final text message registered at 10:59 a.m., presumably just before the mobile phone’s battery was exhausted.

Some of these text messages to Summer McStay pinged the same T-Mobile tower as Joseph McStay’s phone call on the night of the disappearance. The other text messages pinged a companion tower on the opposite side of the river.

ETA: I was thinking about JM calling his mother from the side of the road, telling her that he felt ill. Well, another story came to mind. I wish I could remember the name of the young woman, but she pulled over to the side of the road in Orange County (I-5, I think) with car trouble (or some other emergency) and disappeared. I think they found her body later and it was determined that it was a stranger (?) that pulled over to help? Ugh, it is like a distant memory, but happened early to mid 2000s. Does anyone remember this story? I thought of this situation when thinking of whether JM pulled over (somewhere near last cell ping?) and the possibility that SM came to help him and both met foul play right there on the side of the road? (Reaching, I know. I'm just trying to go over in my head what could make sense and this scenario did not make sense, until I remembered that OC abduction/killing)

“Summer McStay’s phone was not buried, and wasn’t submerged. It was not broken. It was switched on, and for two days it was within reach of the T-Mobile tower by the old Bonsall bridge.”

by Anonymousreply 17611/20/2013

[quote]I made a deal with myself to walk on the treadmill every night while I watch Nancy Grace so I don't feel as guilty about wasting so much time.

Nancy Grace = Fox News

She never has the facts right. She's a blowhard who even lied about her finance's murder. She's still never apologized to the Duke Lacrosse Team claiming that they were rapists, which turned out not to be true. Don't get me started on what she did to Elizabeth Smart.

If you want to hear this story with a slice of camp, watch Jane Valezzie Mitchell.

by Anonymousreply 17711/20/2013

Press conference about to happen today. New developments.

by Anonymousreply 17811/07/2014

New info at 9am western time.

by Anonymousreply 17911/07/2014


by Anonymousreply 18011/07/2014

Thank you for the heads up. I have followed this story since it began. I wonder what the news is???

by Anonymousreply 18111/07/2014


by Anonymousreply 18211/07/2014

Merritt arrested. Charles Ray.

by Anonymousreply 18311/07/2014

No bail for Charles Chase Merritt, dad's associate. Charged on 4 counts.

by Anonymousreply 18411/07/2014

Thanks for the heads up. I'm obsessed with this guy.

by Anonymousreply 18511/07/2014

Holy shit. I figured it had been so long that if they had anything on Merritt he would have been arrested long ago.

by Anonymousreply 18611/07/2014

Was this the associate with a shady background?

by Anonymousreply 18711/07/2014

Same police force that got everything wrong. Next.

by Anonymousreply 18811/07/2014

r188 the fact that they have been silent for a year tells me they've been quietly monitoring him and gathering evidence.

by Anonymousreply 18911/07/2014

Will that make a Movie Of The Week?

by Anonymousreply 19011/07/2014

Ok, since the McStay's bank accounts have not been touched all these years what was the partner's motive for murder?

by Anonymousreply 19111/07/2014

Thanks for the update. Please keep us posted.

by Anonymousreply 19211/07/2014

[quote]Ok, since the McStay's bank accounts have not been touched all these years what was the partner's motive for murder?

The possibilities are endless. Many murder and murder-for-hire plots involve bad business dealings. That the McStay family's financial situation was murky was a nod in that direction.

by Anonymousreply 19311/07/2014

Killed by blunt force trauma at home then moved.

by Anonymousreply 19411/07/2014

R194, I thought the were poisoned?

by Anonymousreply 19511/07/2014

Just saw it on CNN R195. Strange though because police initially said no signs of a struggle or blood found.

by Anonymousreply 19611/07/2014

Merritt had previous arrests for stealing, including $32,000 from a former employer. He also had lived 6 miles from the site where the McStays' bodies were found. He passed a lie detector test with just a few inconsistencies.

The rotting eggs left on the counter prove that the family was killed by blunt force trauma in the home. A back hoe was used to dig the graves. Perhaps Merritt had an accomplice or was hired by someone else.

by Anonymousreply 19711/07/2014

This guy must have been one sick bastard to kill two small children with blunt force trauma. Just terrible.

by Anonymousreply 19811/08/2014

Total sociopath R198. I waiting for the motive. Wasn't someone siphoning money out of their accounts right after the disappearance? Maybe the McStays found out he was embezzling money.

by Anonymousreply 19911/08/2014

This seems to be a crime of passion. The killing was so violent yet no money or valuables taken. This guy must have hated the family to kill them like this.

by Anonymousreply 20011/08/2014

Some comments here about a McStay brother...

by Anonymousreply 20102/19/2015

McStays may have been killed with sledgehammer, detective testifies

Joseph McStay, his wife and their 4-year-old son died after suffering multiple blows to the head, possibly with a sledgehammer, a San Bernardino County sheriff's detective testified Monday.

The testimony came in a preliminary hearing in San Bernardino Superior Court in the trial of Charles "Chase" Merritt, who is charged with killing Joseph McStay, his wife, Summer, and their sons Gianni, 4, and Joseph Jr., 3. The family disappeared from their San Diego County home in 2010 and were later found buried in shallow graves in the desert near Victorville.

The remains of Joseph Jr., 3, were so minimal that a cause of death could not be determined, San Bernardino County sheriff's Det. Edward Bachman told the court.

Merritt was Joseph McStay's business associate and alerted the McStays' family to the disappearance, Bachman said.

Merritt has pleaded not guilty in the case.

by Anonymousreply 20206/15/2015
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