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"The Wizard of Oz" Scene Where Margaret Hamilton Got Burned

In Munchkinland. The scene we see in the film, which is a mess, was that rehearsal? I remember her saying that they did the scene we see, they went to lunch, and they filmed it again, and that's when she got burned. I guess they didn't want to use the version where she got hurt? No one noticed she was on fire until she was off the stage. I doubt you saw her on fire.

The version they used in the final cut is horrible. The smoke starts coming before she even steps into place. BTW, you can also see the trap door open and close. It swings out and back in again. She went down that elevator pretty fast. I know Margaret said that she had to get on top of the elevator door just right or her dress would get caught. She had to grab it quickly before the door opened up. So, is the version we see a rehearsal?

The film has so many mistakes but it's still interesting to find out how they did it all without computers. It still looks realistic with all its faults. BTW, the tornado scene, was that a projection used during Judy's performance, or was some dude actually driving a massive Muslin stocking back and forth off in the distance in a car (which is how they made it) at the same time during it?

Oh, and now you can kill me:

Is the witch on the broom seen outside Dorothy's window suppose to be the Wicked Witch of the East? The WW of the West doesn't have a cape. It looks like she's wearing the ruby slippers too.

That's enough for now. :)

by Anonymousreply 8903/27/2014

Not to be a bitch about it, but you can find every trivia question about the Wizard of Oz and Valley of the Dolls on the gaybros site.

by Anonymousreply 104/07/2013

[quote]Is the witch on the broom seen outside Dorothy's window suppose to be the Wicked Witch of the East? The WW of the West doesn't have a cape. It looks like she's wearing the ruby slippers too.

I always thought so.

by Anonymousreply 204/07/2013

How did the wicked witch of the west bathe?

Or brush her teeth?

Or go tinkle?

Man, she must've stunk!!!!!!

by Anonymousreply 304/07/2013

Why do you suppose she was such a bitch?

by Anonymousreply 404/07/2013

Yes, the witch outside the window is the Wicked Witch of the East; she is indeed wearing the ruby slippers. She was flying by the house, that's why it ended up landing on her.

by Anonymousreply 504/07/2013

Too bad they couldn't colorize her shoes in the sepia tone.

by Anonymousreply 704/07/2013

What's r1 on about?

by Anonymousreply 804/07/2013

In The Wizard of Oz, the wizard seems content to have the wicked witch murdered("but, we'd have to kill her to get it!"). How does this attitude tie in to the new Oz movie where the witch is wicked because the wizard literally screwed her over? Also, how do they explain the Winkies, who were her green skinned guards? I'd always assumed she was of the same race as them, but the new movie puts that notion to rest.

by Anonymousreply 904/07/2013

I don't think we see the take in which Hamilton was burned. I think we see the next-to-last one which was considered "good enough to go with." They filmed it one more time "for safety's sake," but this time the fire-pots went off too early before she had dropped safely out of their path. I believe the mis-timing made that take unusable.

by Anonymousreply 1004/08/2013

I've always wondered of there was video of this.

by Anonymousreply 1104/08/2013

r9, I'm sure it's not the one where she got burned. So you're saying that the one used was the best one they had, they felt that they 'had it,' but just wanted to do one more? Christ, how bad were the other ones?!

by Anonymousreply 1204/08/2013

Well, R12, as OP said, the best take they had available had some flaws - you can see the smoke rise too soon on the spot where Margaret Hamilton dashes to hit her mark and it's obvious she's dropping down a trap door. It's a phenomenal exit even so. But you can see why they thought another take might have gone smoother.

When Hamilton returned to work on the movie still frail from her injuries she told them "no more fire." They never made her perform another dangerous stunt. Just as well as her stunt double was also injured when the motorized broom she was flying exploded out from under her. Neither witch nor Buddy Ebsen, the aluminum-poisoned Tin Man, sued the studio for fear of losing their careers.

by Anonymousreply 1304/08/2013

R3 and R4, both of your questions are answered in Wicked (the book, not the musical).

by Anonymousreply 1404/08/2013

How about the tornado? Was that a projection played while they were filming the what would be the final cut?

by Anonymousreply 1504/08/2013

I assue it was a projection shot OP.. on the special feature extras on the blu ray, there are several clips of the 'muslin tornado.' I assume these were filmed and the best take was used for the movie.

by Anonymousreply 1604/08/2013

Back in the olden days, people usually saw a movie once. The witch effect worked fine for them. They weren't rewinderng and scrutinizing footage in movies.

As with most films, once you know to look for something like an effect, it s much easier to see how it was done or that there are mistakes.

Many of the effects in WOZ were newly created for the movie and considering how old the film is, they hold up well.

If you want to make ourself crazy, watch Dorothy's braids get longer and shorter when she first meets the scarecrow.

And poor Toto getting hurled away as the Wizard pulls back the curtain which is still attached to Toto.

by Anonymousreply 1704/08/2013

[quote] How does this attitude tie in to the new Oz movie where the witch is wicked because the wizard literally screwed her over?

Sounds like A WICKED rehash.

by Anonymousreply 1804/08/2013

There's a very funny video of Hamilton in an interview recounting how her agent called to offer her a role in The Wizard of Oz and her naive reaction, asking him "which role?"

by Anonymousreply 1904/08/2013

Hamilton loved children and doted on them.

by Anonymousreply 2004/08/2013

Interesting this topic comes up same day as death of Thatcher.

by Anonymousreply 2104/08/2013

R5 is lying.

by Anonymousreply 2204/08/2013

[quote]I've always wondered of there was video of this.

Video did not exist in 1939.

by Anonymousreply 2304/08/2013

R23 ok film then.

by Anonymousreply 2404/08/2013

Yes, the witch seen in the cyclone segment is wearing the Ruby Slippers. They are visible at the 1:30 mark.

by Anonymousreply 2504/08/2013

Run Judy run!!!!!!!

by Anonymousreply 2604/08/2013

R23, film footage is often transferred to video or digital media. There's a great website called YouTube that offers lots of vintage film clips and interviews, etc. that have bee transferred many times over from film to video to digital media.

by Anonymousreply 2704/08/2013

Why should I care which take they used? It was Margaret Hamilton that got burned, not me.

by Anonymousreply 2804/08/2013

Footage of the tornado is re-used in the all-black musical CABIN IN THE SKY which was shot in black & white and was the first movie directed by Vincent Minelli. It is rather amusing to see the instantly recognizable twister making a cameo appearance, as it were, in another film.

by Anonymousreply 2904/08/2013

[quote]It was Margaret Hamilton that got burned, not me.

Hilarious but you have to drop the word "that" --

"It was Claude Daigle got drowned, not me!"

"It was Margaret Hamilton got burned, not me!"

by Anonymousreply 3104/08/2013

The tornado wasn't projected. It was in front of the set backdrop. It was muslin spinning on a moving track.

by Anonymousreply 3204/08/2013

I saw Margaret Hamilton play the role of the witch in a production of THE WIZARD OF OZ at the Muny in St.Louis. 1976. The three Hudson Brothers played the tin man, scarecrow and lion. Karen Wyman, a popular vocalist at the time, played Dorothy.

I would have loved to have seen Ms. Hamilton in the tour of A LITTLE NIGHT MUSIC she did with Jean Simmons.

by Anonymousreply 3304/08/2013

So this muslin tornado was not a filmed projection but done live in front of the sky backdrop?

by Anonymousreply 3404/08/2013

I saw Margaret Hamilton in that Night Music tour twice. Although she gave it her all, she was just not convincing as an aged courtesan. It was not just her questionable looks...Hermione Gingold, after all was hardly a beauty...but her very Gothic American Midwestern (or New England?) spinsterish persona that did her in.

Jean Simmons, however, was sublime!

by Anonymousreply 3504/08/2013

I'm sure you're completely wrong, R32. If what you say were true, the muslin sock would have had to be hundreds of feet high to produce the proper perspective. What you are seeing is FOOTAGE of the muslin sock in the background, combined with footage of Judy Garland and the others in the foreground. Think about it.

P.S. Why are people so certain that the witch in the cyclone sequence is wearing the ruby slippers (and therefore must be the Wicked Witch of the East)? That may be true, but to me, it's very unclear.

by Anonymousreply 3604/08/2013

Those weren't real flying monkeys, either.

by Anonymousreply 3704/08/2013

Hamilton was a bitch. She was supposed to be on the Facts of Life, playing the rich bitch lady that leaves all her money to Joe.

But then Hamilton refused to work with Tootie and Mrs Garrett refused to have her written out for the episode. So they replaced Hamilton.

by Anonymousreply 3804/08/2013

[quote]Why are people so certain that the witch in the cyclone sequence is wearing the ruby slippers?

Because we have eyes.

by Anonymousreply 3904/08/2013

Bullshit, R38, go away and croak.

by Anonymousreply 4004/08/2013

I get scared just seeing a picture of this woman.

by Anonymousreply 4104/08/2013

[quote]P.S. Why are people so certain that the witch in the cyclone sequence is wearing the ruby slippers (and therefore must be the Wicked Witch of the East)? That may be true, but to me, it's very unclear.

I haven't seen the movie in a while (nor clicked on the link someone posted a few posts back) so I'm not sure about the Ruby Slippers being visible, but I am certain it's supposed to be the Wicked Witch of the East because it makes sense. Moments later, the house falls and we learn there's a witch underneath it. Since the witch at the window was the only one in the vicinity at the time, then it stands to reason she was the one that got pinned by the house. Process of elimination.

by Anonymousreply 4204/08/2013

That's true R36. In one of the test footage sequences on the OZ special features DVD, there is a quick shot of a crew member moving the 'tornado' back and forth.. yes, it was minature size. So all of that was projected.

by Anonymousreply 4304/08/2013

Of course, it's the Wicked Witch of the East in that shot.

I can't believe you're all questioning that.

by Anonymousreply 4404/08/2013

I always thought the image of Miss Gulch turning into a witch during the cyclone was a brilliant way to cue the audience in to the idea that all of the characters in the Kansas sequence (except Auntie Em and Uncle Henry) are going to have counterparts in Oz and are going to be played by the same actors. Since the Wicked Witch of the East doesn't really appear in the Oz sequences (except for her feet), I always assumed that Dorothy sees Miss Gulch (played by Margaret Hamilton) turn into the Wicked Witch of the West during the cyclone, because that's the character Margaret Hamilton plays in the Oz sequences.

R42, your argument makes no sense to me. We are told that Dorothy's house fell on top of the Wicked Witch of the East, who therefore must have been on the ground at the time. Are you saying we're supposed to think that Dorothy saw the Wicked Witch of the East flying past her bedroom window during the cyclone, and then that witch landed right before Dorothy and was crushed by the house? Sounds like a stretch to me.

If anything, I think the "process of elimination" gives more credence to the idea that the witch Dorothy sees during the cyclone is the Wicked Witch of the West.

by Anonymousreply 4504/08/2013

Did you ever see her grab something from the monkey before she takes off on her broom out of the castle? That was her casting cap. It's in the script, but they cut it.

by Anonymousreply 4604/08/2013

Here's how they did the tornado...

by Anonymousreply 4704/08/2013

[quote]Are you saying we're supposed to think that Dorothy saw the Wicked Witch of the East flying past her bedroom window during the cyclone, and then that witch landed right before Dorothy and was crushed by the house? Sounds like a stretch to me.

No, I'm saying that as the tornado grew worse (which we see when everything inside the house starts thrashing around and Dorothy screams for dear life) the witch ended up beneath the house at the moment the tornado let up, thus the house fell with her underneath.

by Anonymousreply 4804/08/2013

I am frantically trying to find the article I read some time back on line, but its proving impossible, so I will post what I can remember. The question of what the witch has on her feet during the tornado segment is important because money is involved, money made at memorabilia auctions. There is probably no other movie prop or costume that is as valuable as the Ruby Slippers and whenever a pair goes on the block a lot of excitement is generated. Of the shoes that are out there, this much is known: There are some that Garland wore. These are the most valuable. There are others that were made for her stand-in. These are less valuable. There are some that were made just for the close-ups of the shoes. These shoes are more elaborate and detailed. They are more valuable than the stand-in's because they are so detailed, but they were worn by her stand-in for those shots. The thing is, there is another pair floating around that are not the same size as what Garland or her stand-in wore. The current theory that has been reached after long research is these are probably the shoes Hamilton is seen wearing in the tornado sequence.

Remember, these are archivists working for the biggest auction houses in the country. Their verdict can mean the difference between a few thousand dollars to tens of thousands of dollars. When you deal with those kinds of numbers, and the kind of lawsuit that could result in a misidentified provenance, you're not going to fuck around. Going on that, it is reasonable to conclude that in that one shot, she is playing the Witch of the East.

by Anonymousreply 4904/08/2013

[quote]There is probably no other movie prop or costume that is as valuable as the Ruby Slippers

Marilyn's ivory-white pleated halter top dress from THE SEVEN YEAR ITCH sold at auction for $5.6 million. The Ruby Slippers have only garnered half a million at the most. Even Dorothy's checkered gingham dress sold for only $480,000. Therefore, it's safe to say that Marilyn's dress would probably be more valuable.

by Anonymousreply 5004/08/2013

Holy crap R50! I didnt know that. Then I stand corrected. I'm glad I used the qualifier "probably". Thank you.

Personally, I have always wanted to scoop some ashes out of my grill and pass them off as what is left of Rosebud.

by Anonymousreply 5104/08/2013

Get your terminology correct! It's not a "projection shot," it's a process shot. Hitchcock used the am the time. The live actors perform in front of a screen on which previously filmed footage is projected.

by Anonymousreply 5204/08/2013

[quote]yes, it was minature size. So all of that was projected.

Nope. It was 35'.

by Anonymousreply 5304/08/2013

"No, I'm saying that as the tornado grew worse (which we see when everything inside the house starts thrashing around and Dorothy screams for dear life) the witch ended up beneath the house at the moment the tornado let up, thus the house fell with her underneath."

Oh...well, that may make sense to you, but it still sounds like a stretch to me. Also: If the witch we see in the cyclone is supposed to be the Wicked Witch of the East, doesn't it bother you that she's played by Margaret Hamilton and therefore looks exactly the same as the Wicked With of the West? Are we supposed to think they were twins? Or is it just that the studio didn't want to hire another actress to play the witch of the east?

by Anonymousreply 5404/08/2013

I remember seeing a very old program on PBS (hosted by Lorna Luft!) about the making of The Wizard of Oz, Margaret Hamilton was interviewed about the accident. She said the thick green makeup she wore actually got it's green color from powdered copper and the copper powder actually MELTED onto her face. That sounded excruciating.

by Anonymousreply 5504/08/2013

What R45 wrote. Verbatim.

by Anonymousreply 5604/08/2013

Tornado test footage!!

You simply must watch this NOW!

by Anonymousreply 5704/08/2013

Its kind of amazing that they went through so much trouble to create this one segment. Did MGM not have an animation department then? It would seem to be easier and less expensive just to combine an animated tornado with live footage.

by Anonymousreply 5804/08/2013

I think it is a debatable question. I looked at the 1989 reprint of the screenplay and it does not say which witch she turns into. The footage of the cyclone makes it appear that the witch is wearing the ruby slippers. [And this the evidence that Wikipedia cites to come down on the side of the Witch in the cyclone being the Wicked Witch of the East.]

Nevertheless, R45 makes valid points that bolster the theory that Almira Gulch turned into the Wicked Witch of the West.

OP noted that the Wicked Witch of the West doesn't wear a cape, but that isn't accurate, because in most of the scenes she is in, it looks like she has on a cape.

by Anonymousreply 5904/08/2013

Love r25 clip. The music is fantastic in the film.

by Anonymousreply 6004/08/2013

No one has mentioned the infamous striped stockings worn by the Wicked Witch of the East, as seen before her feet shrivel up under the house.

by Anonymousreply 6104/08/2013

r61, what are you expecting us to say about them?

by Anonymousreply 6204/09/2013

[quote]Are you saying we're supposed to think that Dorothy saw the Wicked Witch of the East flying past her bedroom window during the cyclone, and then that witch landed right before Dorothy and was crushed by the house? Sounds like a stretch to me.

Yes, that is exactly what Dorothy says happened when she sings, "just then the witch to satisfy an itch, went flying on her broomstick, thumbing for a hitch" - In other words, Dorothy says she saw the Wicked Witch of the East flying by her.

The Munchkins then answer her back, "And oh, what happened then was rich - the house began to pitch, the kitchen took a switch, it landed on the Wicked Witch in the middle of a ditch, which was not a healthy situation for the Wicked Witch who began to twitch and was reduced to just a stitch of what was once a Wicked Witch!"

They are referring to the same witch Dorothy says she saw - the one who is now dead. Ding fucking dong.

by Anonymousreply 6304/09/2013

Margaret Hamilton had a really small head. I've seen the hat. They nailed her dress to the floor in the melting scene.

There's a rundown of what was filmed on what day, but there's a lot missing.

They always say that a lot of her bits were cut because she was too scary. Not so. Just read the shooting script. They didn't cut much.

It's amazing how many people wrote that film, not to mention all the directors, and so many of them didn't get credit.

This is a film that should have more documentation. It's a travesty. I really hope they find the missing footage. They're still finding shit. Thanks to the internet, hopefully, some family will be going through their attic and will find stuff. They can then look it up on the web, and bring it to light. Someone on IMDB found all of Margaret's crap in their family's attic. Turns out that she was a relative. Margaret's son's name is Hamilton. Margaret's husband broke her nose. There's a newspaper article back before she became famous.

I'd love to know how she came up with the cackle. She played the witch before, right? I would love to have heard how she played it back then.

by Anonymousreply 6404/09/2013

"She was the kindergarten teacher of five-year-old William Windom, until she threw him out for rambunctious behavior. Another of her students was Jim Backus."

IMDB

by Anonymousreply 6504/09/2013

Margaret was a was a staunch Republican and conservative.

by Anonymousreply 6604/09/2013

No she wasn't, r66. Quite the opposite.

by Anonymousreply 6704/09/2013

I doubt that's true about Jim Backus. He would have been five - six in 1918-19, when Margaret was 17-18.

by Anonymousreply 6804/09/2013

Hamilton may have had Backus when she was a student teacher in a grade higher than kindergarten. She wasn't a teacher for long. She only went to college because her mother insisted she learn to support herself before trying her luck on the stage.

by Anonymousreply 6904/09/2013

[quote]It's amazing how many people wrote that film, not to mention all the directors, and so many of them didn't get credit.

The screenplay with appendix is a quick and fascinating read for all the suggestions, scenes, and plot twists they did not end up using.

by Anonymousreply 7004/09/2013

If the Wicked Witch of the West also wore striped stockings, wouldn't they have been seen on her at some point in the film?

by Anonymousreply 7104/09/2013

Also, just as a tedious aside. One could start teacher's college at 16 in the early 20th century. Teacher's college was not university. It was a two year training program, basically a trade school. Four year of high school as we know it did not exist until the 1930s. It was a way of keeping teenagers out of the workplace.

by Anonymousreply 7204/09/2013

So the three Hudson Brothers were Broadway stars?

OK.

by Anonymousreply 7304/09/2013

[quote]No she wasn't, [R66]. Quite the opposite.

Not true. Her son also ran as a Republican in Maine. He goes to the Oz conventions. She was a registered Republican, and was on record back in the late 70s as being a hardcore conservative in the Middletown Press. Sad, but it's true. :( There were plenty of Republicans back in the days of Hollywood.

by Anonymousreply 7404/09/2013

No R73 but they did THE WIZARD OF OZ in summer stock. A year later, they played the three sailors in ON THE TOWN. By the way, Goldie Hawn, who was fucking the one Hudson brother (Kate's dad) was with him when the brothers were in THE WIZARD OF OZ .... they stayed at the Chase Park Plaza Hotel in St. Louis.

by Anonymousreply 7504/09/2013

The actress who played Aunt Em developed cataracts. She was going blind, could not afford the surgery so she committed suicide. Took a bunch of sleeping pills and put a plastic bag over her head.

by Anonymousreply 7604/09/2013

r76. thank you Kenneth Anger.

And her name was Clara Blandick; she made 118 films but was mostly known for her stage work.

She killed herself after church on Palm Sunday in 1962 at 81 years old.

by Anonymousreply 7704/09/2013

So sad to have died so young.

by Anonymousreply 7804/09/2013

HOW do none of you beotches ask this question: do ANY of the WWW cut scenes, which were considered TOO scary for audicnes, survive? I want to see them? Its SO obvious stuff is cut right after she says 'well my little pretty I can cause accidents too..." and shes taking a break to say nother line, and ... its gone!

WHAT does she say there, and in other scenes? These are the great missing scenes in movie history, find them, bitches!

by Anonymousreply 7911/01/2013

This is probably the most serious and well thought out thread I've ever read on DL.

by Anonymousreply 8011/01/2013

brilliant R79

by Anonymousreply 8111/07/2013

r79....

"and this is how I do it."

by Anonymousreply 8411/07/2013

so will they reprise this scene during the Oscar's tribute to Oz? on a serious note, its a damn shame not one actor is left to get the standing O they deserve from Hollywood ...

by Anonymousreply 8501/31/2014

r85 There one Munchkin left.

by Anonymousreply 8601/31/2014

It took me forever to see it, but I finally did: For less than a second, you can see the witch's shoes clearly, and I think those really ARE the ruby slippers. Here's a screen shot:

by Anonymousreply 8701/31/2014

Besides the Scarecrow's cut dance, I think the only other cut materiL that survives is a bit of the restoration scene that was used in the 1940s re-release trailer.

And there are Harold Arlen's home movies of The Jitterbug.

by Anonymousreply 8801/31/2014

Sad to read that Maggie Hamilton was a Rethuglican. She seemed so nice, and like she was a fun old broad, too.

by Anonymousreply 8903/27/2014
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