Being around straight guys fills me with terror.

No.

No....

Give them a try. You'll be surprised how much, at least on a one-to-one basis, they welcome someone who operates on a different level and doesn't require them to be their usual competitive macho-proving "self".

And don't feel you have to prove anything to them either. Except that you're not afraid to be yourself and pretend you share a common interest in things that don't interest you. This will incite both you and them to find and meet on a common human ground, whatever that may be.

MARY!

To an extent. I can be around some guys and feel like a big ol' gurl. Then again, I can be around some queens and feel like I'm not even gay at all!

Usually being around of group of gay men fills me with the same level of anxiety. I share office space with a bunch of twenty something straight guys and I like their energy, curiosity, and lack of bitchiness. Granted we are all in creative fields so they aren't really sports minded guys, but they all go out to the fire escape to smoke and talk about girls and they really crack me up. I'm a lot older than them, but they never make me feel like an old gay troll like a bunch of young gay guys would.

Countdown for some tool coming in here and saying OP is self loathing in 10 9 8 7...

OP, all people, straight or gay respond well to kindness and confidence. As for straight men in general- I play tennis with them, I ski with them I work with them- yeah I am not interesting in the Super Bowl, but in general they are just fine. In fact a few are close friends and my gayness or their straightness are mere details.

Why in heavens name do you have to go to a supervisor's bachelor party? I have never been employed anywhere in my life where that kind of requirement was imposed.

Being in all male or all female groups both make me slightly uncomfortable.

OP, you lost me at "it's compulsory that I go."

If I were your professor, you'd get an "F".

OP, just make sure to bring a pair of knee pads to that bachelor party and...don't wear anything complicated.

I feel totally comfortable around straight guys. I'm blunt, messy, crude and rarely think before I speak, so when I'm around straight guys, I fit in. OP, you say you have lust for them and maybe that's why you come off badly. I have no attraction to straight men, so that's prob why I get along with them so well.

However, the fact that I'm blunt, messy, crude and thoughtless means I get along horribly with gay men. When around gay men, I get filled with anxiety and feel like I'm a bull in a China shop. Like it's only a matter of time before I offend others. With straight guys, I don't have to worry about filtering my thoughts but with gay men I feel I become too conscious of myself and have to filter my words otherwise they get offended.

How is this even possible?

Most of the men at my workplace are straight and I can't avoid them -- and once you get to know them realize that they are not the stereotype you paint them to be, especially about their interests, lack of emotion, and aggression.

The straight guys at my gym (and I only assume they're straight because I see them with their girlfriends) are friendly, my straight male neighbors aren't homophobic.

How do you even function?

Jesus, OP, take some meds.

Seriously.

You think gay men aren't aggressive? Straight men are aggressive when something is at stake. Some gay men are aggressive as a matter of style.

OP have you heard about sexual reassignment surgery?

Let me clarify that's it not mandatory that I go, but I was told it would be a good idea to go since it's my supervisor. I think most of the guys know that I'm "different," and one of the nicer ones even said to me that he's won't be same guy at the stag party...that's he'll be drunk and rough and rowdy as well, and I think that upped the fear.

To be honest, it's been this way since as far back as high school. I remember as a senior having a mandatory sleepover in school for some reason. It was a small private boys' school. I was teased mercilessly in HS by the other guys, and I remember being filled with dread at having to spend the overnight with them. Part of the overnight entailed going by bus to some event. All kind of hazy now, but I do remember having a panic attack on the bus.

Being in these types of situations with a pack of straight guys just fills me with absolute dread. I'm not a troll. This is the way it is. I was hoping some of you could identify with my feelings and share your similar feelings.

From my experience, straight guys are laid-back, friendly, and most of all drama-free, whereas gays can be bitchy, harder to befriend, and back-stabbing. I can't tell you how many times I've thought I was friends with some gay guys only to find out they were talking shit behind my back. Straight guys don't generally gossip unless it's to bitch about their girlfriends/wives nagging them or what have you. But even then, they'd rather discuss sports, cars, guns, working out, or whatever interests them.

In short, I tend to feel stress-free and relaxed around straights, so I wouldn't have a problem going to that bachelor party. I usually avoid women and the queeniest gays because they tend to revel in drama, which I abhor. Not that I'm uber straight-acting myself. I'm more in the middle. But I just HATE pettiness.

I avoided all straight men, including my father, from the time I got out of college until I was 34 years old. My brother was the only straight guy I willingly talked to.

After age 34 it flipped, and now, 20 years later, my closest friend is a straight guy, and the rest of my close friends are gay women.

I have a lot a lot a lot of friends of all genders and persuasions, but I am really only close at this point to one straight guy and one gay woman.

I have found in general that straight guys are way more likely to be interested in you, and to be low-key and non-judgmental, as you get older as a gay man.

Gay men complain that that start to be invisible to other gay men at like age 35. But the gay men doing the complaining are themselves people who aren't interested in gay men after the age of 35.

We gay men are awful awful awful to each other, and as we get older, were are going to be more and more isolated from each other.

no

[quote]I'm not a troll. This is the way it is.

Yes you are and no it's not. You're not posting about your fears and anxieties.... the PURPOSE of your post was to associate straights with natural normal maleness and gays as something lesser. You're the typical "gay males are women" poster we see here on 70% of all posts.

Wrong, r21. I'm just posting my own experience, not generalizing anything. You seem a tad defensive.

Well OP, you've certainly come to the right place about information on straight guys.

DataLounge is home to numerous posters who think most straight guys are willing to engage in the homosex.

Well considering most straight men are scared of gay men (homophobic), you can take comfort in knowing the feeling is mutual.

well, I identify with OP somewhat. If I were in the business world, I think I'd really identify with him a lot. As it is, I'm in the arts, so the straight guys I meet are not of the type OP describes. When I have to be around macho straight men, I feel uncomfortable and they do too.

You cliched queers need to meet some straight men. Straight men under age 40 LOVE themselves some gay guys, and I find straight men generally way easier to be with than gay men.

Thank you r25.

"drunk and rough and rowdy"

Douche and pre-lube, OP, and you'll be fine.

[quote]My supervisor is having a bachelor party this weekend. It's compulsory that I go

No one can make you do anything you don't want to do, OP.

No group can be painted with the same brush. I've seen men like op's group and in other places I've been around straight guys that gossip like its a hen house. It all just depends on who you get.

OP, you sound completely insane.

I understand OP, and kind of feel that way, too.

r22, / OP, you're not fooling anyone with that attempt to shift focus to the person who pointed out what you're up to. Of course you also have many willing accomplices in this thread. So go on with the "gays = girls" theme. It seems very important to you.

I can relate to what OP is saying, in a way -- namely, a "bachelor" party! I can't think of anything I would rather NOT attend than a bachelor party, and I just WOULD NOT GO.

It's just the non-stop sports babble shit that I get sick of sometimes.

I have several straight guy friends and once they have a few in them they can't stop talking about the Jets and Mark Sanchez. I want to shake them sometimes and scream "WHY IS THIS ENDLESSLY FASCINATING TO YOU??!"

I mean, I get it. I come from a huge football family: all my brothers played in high school and college. My one brother almost went pro. My granddad played for Knute Rockne at Notre Dame for fucks sake yet still our family gatherings aren't an orgy of stat and play debates.

I really dig the lack of catty cunty bs with hetero dudes. But they bring a whole other set of problems. This ... (in addition to discussions of their farts and shit)...is just one of them.

OP isn't talking about actual straight guys. He is describing an outrageously ridiculous caricature created by the prissy types on this site in order to create a polar opposite of the hyperprissy caricature they've created for themselves. The rest of us normal humans, straight and gay, think you're freaks.

The help you need, OP / R17, is to start by admitting that you're a bigot.

How would you react if someone called all gay men completely lacking emotion and humanity?

Or to flip it around in the same stereotypical way you wrote, said "I dread and fear being around a group of gay men -- their shrieking, bitchiness, girlishness -- all they talk about is fashion, musical theatre, gay porn trashing straight women, straight men, touching and flirting with straight men, thinking we're all bisexual and gay, their open relationships, sex parties, and complete lack of normalcy in relationships ... please help me"

You'd tell that person he's a bigot. Just like you are.

R26 - agree completely

What are you talking about, r33? There's no agenda lol. I never said or implied gays=girls. How did you make that leap? I said that I just don't identify with these types of guys and am fearful of being in their presence when they're in a pack. I never said I felt like a woman or wanted to be a woman. btw, thanks for making me feel better about my own insanity.

[quote]Or to flip it around in the same stereotypical way you wrote, said "I dread and fear being around a group of gay men -- their shrieking, bitchiness, girlishness -- all they talk about is fashion, musical theatre, gay porn trashing straight women, straight men, touching and flirting with straight men, thinking we're all bisexual and gay, their open relationships, sex parties, and complete lack of normalcy in relationships ... please help me"

Well . . .

Wrong, OP/R39. Read your posts. You've equated gay with being catty, unable to relate to sports... so you're stereotyping us and them.

And your portrayal of straight men is complete bullshit. Having two straight brothers, and several straight male friends and dozens of straight male coworkers, I have never heard anyone "endlessly" talking about sports, farting, etc. The dozens of straight guys I know talk about politics, the same TV shows we watch, music, their families and are interested in my husband, my work, and so on."

And your antipathy for sports is pathological.

You'd be a lot more believable if you were a troll. You come off like a lunatic.

R33 R37 No where in OPs post does he even mention other gay men, let alone state that gay men = women bullshit. He is talking about his own issues and feelings of inadequacy and at no time attributes this to gay men on a whole. The fact that you focused on something that doesn't even exist says more about you than it does OP.

[quote]Read your posts. You've equated gay with being catty

Fail.

Not one of OPs post even contain the word catty.

You're being dense - and way too literal - about this R42.

OP is painting two pictures, one of straight men as cro-magnon "masculine" jerks and gay men as catty, afraid of sports, and weak.

Do the math.

Excuse me for not using troll-dar to keep up with the people who write like OP, R43.

See above for his cohort claiming heteros, unlike gay men, are not "catty cunts".

R44 Forget the math, you should try reading.

At no point did OP say gay men are catty. At no point did OP say gay men are afraid of sports. At no point did OP even talk about other gay men.

r44, why are you projecting your insecurities? Do you somewhat identify with the OP? Otherwise, why are you trying to project your insecurities onto him?

OP painted himself as a gay man who is weak and afraid of sports. He never said anything about all gay men being like him. OP does paint straight men in a very stereotypical fashion. I've noticed lots of very femme gay men see straight men as sterotypes but that has to do with their insecurities growing up.

r44 is extremely insecure over something...

Ah the heartwarming moments when gays attack gays. These are the days that make life worth living.

"I'm blunt, messy, crude and rarely think before I speak, so when I'm around straight guys, I fit in."

Your straight male "friends" probably make fun of you behind your back. Straight men are responsible for most of the homophobia in the world.

"Like it's only a matter of time before I offend others. With straight guys, I don't have to worry about filtering my thoughts but with gay men I feel I become too conscious of myself and have to filter my words otherwise they get offended."

Just make fun of Christians or Republicans. Straight men tend to get really offended by that. Look at Rush Limbaugh or Bill O'Reilly. They bitch and moan about everything and act like straight white men are the real victims of society.

This is so easy. OP? You are a coward. Plain and simple. A pussy. . GROW A PAIR, you pansy ass.

Men are men are men. Gay men are still MEN. What's the difference? Perception, that's the difference. A gay man would kick your nelly ass as soon as a straight man would (if that is the world you live in, FEAR based).

If you are the handwringing special snowflake you appear in your post, NO ONE would want to be around you.

Wow, I come on this thread to read OP's lunacy and we have another whack-job at R43, R46 et al lighting up troll-dar.

OP has absolutely protrayed all straight men as stereotypes. PERIOD.

Any sane person can see gay men as not possessing these qualities.

But no he hasn't explicitly said anything about all gay men.

Now why are you coming unhinged over this, R46..,

R49 - what planet are you from? You would probably benefit some from mixing up your social life. You seem to have it all figured out, unfortunately you used the wrong info to get there.

No R46, he just talked about all straight men as being one way and left the blanks to be filled in.

I'm sure he believes in the diversity of the gay community -- the sports lovers, the poker players, beer swilling, cigar smoking gays and intimidating gay men who "fill him" with just as much "terror".

Keep telling yourself that, freak.

[quote]Just make fun of Christians or Republicans. Straight men tend to get really offended by that

This is more of the delusional crap we see from the psychos who are determined to create extreme caricatures to portray gays one way and straights another. Your lying agenda is transparent.

Some of you are clearly as messed up as the OP. Why "make fun" of ANYONE? Christians OR Republicans? Sure, they deserve it but why not take the high road? Making fun of people makes you the asshole. And you SHOULD filter your language so you don't offend people. Do you have fucking Tourette's Syndrome or something? Being nice and kind matters. Not all that other posturing bullshit.

I know, my "angry post" belies what I am saying here about being nice but, holy hell, what a mess some of you seem to be.

OP, straight guys used to be like that, and nothing was more fun for them than to pick one of the gang out and pick on them, playing tricks, cheating in games, trying to deceive people for fun, and that sort of thing. But really in the last twenty years this has really changed. Straight men are much less like this than they used to be. I'm sorry that you went to an all boys prep school with a bunch of rich kids who still had a residual dusting of the bad old ways, the ways of spoiled no-account baby boomer privileged white men, the kind one associates with Wall Street traders and Michael Milken, but most likely your co-workers are not like that, or they wouldn't have even bothered to invite you.

I was like you, I hated that male competition thing, but in the bad old days, it was as true of the gays as it was of straight, although perhaps less nastily expressed since few gays had the kind of hierarchical posse straight men seem to naturally form.

To those of you who think gay men are especially gossipy and backstabbing, I'd like to inform you that those stereotypes have never been true, and only a sixty five year old self-loather would think so. Straight men are just as gossipy as gays and always have been, and they have always had better lines of internal communication too.

R47, it was only a matter of time someone like you would come on here thinking you can tell who's projecting insecurities. People like you are usually the ones doing the projecting.

See my post above at R53. If you want to believe he sees some gay people as diverse and terrifying as straight men, go right ahead. If you can't see he says "straight guys" are one way, and "gay men" are clearly different by implication, you can't be reasoned with.

Good grief, some of you guys!!! Listen, I never said and do not believe all other gay guys are like me. That's why I asked if anyone feels the same way as me. I wouldn't have asked it if I thought everyone feels the same as I do. I know there are plenty of gay guys into sports and who are typically "masculine," just as I know there are straight guys who don't fit the alpha male label. I was just talking about my experiences, feelings, and inadequacies and my general dread about being around these types of straight alpha males, and was curious if anyone felt the same. That's all. Chill.

R58, good for you. You were at least able to stop flapping your arms around long enough to write something articulate and "masculine."

you are a Cuntessa, that's why

Being around straight guys don't fill me with terror.

Being around attractive straight guys fill me with terror.

R47 All I am doing is providing the facts. I have no insecurities on the subject. Calling a person insecure over something like is meaningless. I do however have a suspension about who are the insecure ones here.

R51 The only ones who are becoming unhinged are the ones who once called on it, cant admit they made a mistake.

[quote]and my general dread about being around these types of straight alpha males

So you're saying it's the personality you're talking about, not the sexual orientation that's the issue.

Yet your quoted sentence above shows you are STILL trying to link "straight" with "alpha male." Stop pretending you're not doing what you're doing.

christ r63. I specified straight alpha males because these are the types of guys going to this bachelor party. You're trying to shoehorn my post to fit some imaginary agenda.

You all are from 1972.

In my experience, it is GAY MEN who generate most of the world's homophobia, these days.

Look, for instance, at Hollywood. Stuffed to the gills with GAY MEN who are desperately pretending not to be - not because, as they CLAIM, nobody will go see a movie with out-and-proud gay men starring in it.

NO: the fact is, gay men in Hollywood are so profoundly ashamed of their gayness that THEY could not stand to go see a movie starring out-and-proud gay men.

These Hollywood homos need to believe that every romantic sexy male in America is STRAIGHT.

In this way, they are much like the gay men who post on Datalounge.

THEY DO NOT FANTASIZE ABOUT GAY MEN.

They fantasize about STRAIGHT men.

They go see a movie with George Clooney where the dude romances a woman, and they are happy, because THEY THINK CLOONEY WOULD BE LESS OF A MAN IF: A) HE SAID HE WAS GAY; AND: B) HE KISSED A GUY ONSCREEN IN A ROMANTIC OR SEXUAL WAY.

Hollywood homos do not find men attractive unless those men are straight and having sex with women.

This is also true of most Datalounge posters.

That is just one example of the profoundly self-loathing homophobia of many gay men.

Straight guys, on the other hand - anyway, the straight guys I know - couldn't care less if a dude wants to fuck a guy or wants to fuck a girl. Straight guys - at least the ones I know - are not endlessly obsessed with how masculine everyone is. Sure, all American men worry that they are not "man enough." It's our national disease. But straight men - the ones I know - generally speaking, do not fucking care if you seem "manly" enough.

Gay men on datalounge have contempt for any man who doesn't seem "manly" enough.

Gay men on datalounge, and the tragic women who love them, are the real homophobes.

Oh shut up r65. It's clear that you are coming from the same motivational standpoint as OP.

What a fucking sewer this thread has turned into.

OP, I'm sorry that you've been put into a position in your work life that makes you uncomfortable, and I'm also sorry for the ridiculous turn this thread has taken.

Fuck the idiots who need to turn EVERY SINGLE FUCKING THREAD into a polarizing bitch fight. If anyone is "ruining" DL, it's them.

OP you can't seriously claim you were talking about a specific small group of straight men.

Your headline says otherwise. So does the breadth of your original post.

The "dread" and "terror" you feel says you do need serious help. That's not a slam, it's a fair assessment.

r67, the OP may as well have titled the thread "polarizing bitch fight, all welcome." Because the intent was clear and loud - a contrived story so that he would have an excuse to insinuate that same-sex attraction is associated with weakness and prissiness and that opposite sex attraction is associated with strength and maleness.

I just think Dataloungers need to deal with their self-hatred and their misogyny.

R62, I did admit that I had attributed the post about catty gay men to the OP. While you were accusing me of not reading, you must have missed it.

People like you defending the OP while attacking people who are rightly calling out the OP's stereotyping of straight people are transparent in where your sympathies lie. especially when you claim calling people who oppose stereotyping as "insecure" is "meaningless" and then turn right around and insinuate that you have a "suspenion" of who is insecure.

The OP clearly says he is, as others have rightly pointed out with his dread and terror.

Why don't you focus on that insecurity, as well as his stereotyping?

What does "being around straight guys" even mean? Men are all different. This is such a gross generalization that, in 2013, it doesn't even make sense. There are no characteristics that all "straight men" share except maybe a penis. Same with gay men. Some are into sports, some are not. Some are alpha males, some are not. Orientation is pretty irrelevant.

The most that could be said for this OP is that there is a select, finite, insular group of men that he is "terrified" of. That, in and of itself, should be a big red flag need for therapy, counseling or serious self-reflection.

There are plenty of asshole straight guys, there are plenty of asshole gay guys. If OP doesn't like the particular straight guys at a certain party, he shouldn't go to the motherfucking party.

R71 I am not defending OP, nor am I attacking anyone. Stereotyping is never a good idea. But so is claiming someone said something when they very clearly did not. All I did was point out that saying OP said gay men are catty is not true. That's all I said. It's not my fault that is an accurate statement. Nor did I claim calling people who oppose stereotyping as "insecure" is "meaningless". Calling a person who pointed out an error you made as being insecure is meaningless. I will say that is not totally true though, as calling someone insecure because you dont like that they pointed out your error says a real lot about you. A secure person would say, "Hey, you're right. OP didnt say that. I stand corrected." Secure people dont have a hard time admitting they made a mistake. The ones who react by name calling and trying to put the fact checker down is a different story.

I didnt focus on OP's insecurity or stereotyping because plenty of people were already doing that. My aim was more of a "lets stick to the facts" sort of thing.

I'd rather hang out with obnoxious straight guys than some of the miserable, cunty ass fags posting on this thread.

OP, what industry do you work in that you are surrounded by 100% alpha males, and how did you come to be in that industry if you are the opposite? And in 2013, what kind of supervisor has some wild bachelor party with his underlings? It doesn't make sense.

For that matter, how would you even know that all your co-workers are straight? At any job I've had, we weren't so personal that I'd know about the private lives of everyone.

R74, you need to let this go. You're digging yourself into a deeper hole the more you type.

R71 is dead right -- you did say it was not appropriate ("meaningless") to call people insecure and then turned around and suggested people on this thread were insecure.

And R71 did say he was wrong, just not in the way you liked it.

You decided to hijack this thread and go on the attack with snotty little comments like "Fail" and comments accusing people of not reading and on and on, with multiple posts, like you were on a mission.

Just stop.

r76, I'm an executive assistant with a brokerage firm. These guys are alpha males types. Some are married and the others have reps as notorious pussy hounds, so I assume they're all straight. I don't know if they know I'm gay. I'm normally pretty shy around them, and don't really talk about my personal life. Some of the guys are pompous, some are nice, as you'd get in any company. It was implied that I should go to the stag party. Nothing in writing, more of an unwritten mandate, if you get my drift. The only one I'm kind of friendly with is one of the nice guys, who goes out of his way to say hello and chat, even it's just superficial chat. I was nervous enough about this event. I was sort of hoping he'd behave himself and that I could latch on to him at the party as my point of safety, as it were. When he told me that he'll be a different type of person at the party (i.e. drunk, rowdy, obnoxious, etc.), that's what put me over the edge. So I was thinking about all of this, my fear of being around straight alpha types, so I posted to see if anyone else has the same feelings/inadequacies.

When you get a group of straight guys together with alcohol and camaraderie, it can be very intimidating...especially if you don't relate to the general straight stuff. They revel in private jokes about prior office parties, chicks, booze capacity in each other, and how 'gay' someone may be acting.

I totally relate to OP's fear.

However, you don't need to try and keep up with these guys if they get rowdy and BORING. I would go, try and fit in for two drinks, and if after an hour or so you are getting really bored/annoyed/scared, find a graceful exit.

Go to the bathroom, and then come back out with a "Well, I should be going, I got to get ready for my date."..if you feel comfortable enough with that kind of bullshit. That will paint you as a player (even if you're a gay one), and your exit will be enviable. Any/all discomfort you feel would be relieved, and if these guys are that dull, they would respect you more for this. But if they turn out to be pretty cool, then do stick around for another drink or so. Don't be the last one to leave though. Know your place, you are not part of the straight boys club, so don't desperately cling to acceptance in it.

OP you really do need therapy. You're not going to get that here.

There is no rational explanation for this degree of terror you say you have.

Just don't go if you don't like it. Start sticking up for yourself, and go out and be open to making friends with straight people so they don't frighten you.

If you can't do that, get professional help.

So what are you doing here, r73? You seem to just go from thread to thread screeching about idiotic, catty, self-loathing "faggots."

You know how sad it is when women say that they prefer straight male companionship because other women are just so "catty"? That's what you sound like. Ever wonder if you're the problem? You get back what you put out. Perhaps you treat other gay men more poorly than straight men and that's why they react badly to you.

Where are all the assholes who just want to fight coming from? Every thread lately is turning into a playground fight. You can't discuss anything anymore.

I get where OP is coming from. True or EST, I get it and it's an interesting topic to discuss but that won't happen here. So long bitches!

OP - The brokers actually socialize with the exec assistants? Are there any other male EAs?

[quote] you did say it was not appropriate

Fail

I never said that. Sorry, but after that sentience I ignored everything else you wrote.

"The endless sports talk, the competitiveness, the aggression, the cigars, the beers, the poker games, the strip clubs, the lack of emotion, intuition, and sympathy."

Sounds like your average night at Gym Bar to me.

And if you leave off the sports talk, cigars, and poker it sounds like any circuit party.

R82, fear and dread and terror of straight people is not healthy and calling straight people the things OP did are juvenile.

He set up this playground. You're welcome to it.

j

OP, I really like straight guys, sometimes more than gay guys. Yes, some straights can be jerks or worse, but I find if you relax you find you relate to other men as men like yourself. I used to prefer the company of women for the reasons you say, but I no longer feel like that. Women are fine, but I really like guys as people too.

.

Not really. My best friend is a straight guy who is totally cool with me being gay. He's funny as hell and we're both pretty juvenile, we'll sit around, drink beer, and play video games all day. I'm not sexually attracted to him at all so there is no sexual tension.

Don't let them intimidate you. Grow a pair.

[quote]From my experience, straight guys are laid-back, friendly, and most of all drama-free, whereas gays can be bitchy, harder to befriend, and back-stabbing.

And the gay "friends" that are always trying to get in your pants. I had to break off a friendship a couple months ago with a guy because he became an annoying sex pest. I had to tell him over and over that I only saw him as a friend, but he kept trying to lay in lap, massage me, etc. Even told me that he was re-locating to a different job in Seattle and he wanted to take me with him, under the condition we would be together.

Oddly enough, being around gay guys fills me with terror. I'm gay and out to my friends, but 99% of them are straight (the rest are bisexual women). If I go to a gay bar, I have to be drunk. I've yet to maintain a friendship with any gay guy I wasn't dating...

You should really try to make some gay friends r93, it will help you a lot. Obese like that when I first came out.

"From my experience, straight guys are laid-back, friendly, and most of all drama-free, whereas gays can be bitchy, harder to befriend, and back-stabbing"

Ha ha ha ha. You might want to look up who is responsible for 90% of all crime (hint, it's not gay men or women)

"fear and dread and terror of straight people is not healthy and calling straight people the things OP did are juvenile."

As opposed to fear and dread of other gays like the self-loathers on this board.

I know what you mean OP and I think it's valid regardless of what the thread has turned into. I don't really fear hanging with straight guys but it depends on where and who. I can get uncomfortable because we have absolutly nothing in common. There are a lot of cool straight guys out there BTW

With me, it's gay men who continuously act like they're starring as the main bitch in a 'My Super-Sweet Sixteen' episode. I find it hard to believe that such types actually have friends or even loved ones.

You've been invited to a Bachelor Party? The company fag? OMG, do you know how much of an honor those straight men are paying you by asking you to go? YOU COULD GET YOURSELF LAID, you stupid bitch! You could get some straight cock that I know you crave for despite your fear of them. Dude, GO. Go there and get some dick from them! OMG, you're so dim!

Straight men DO gossip. And they do cause drama.

I get what OP is saying. When I'm with a group of "straight" guys, I feel I'm too gay to blend in, but when I'm in a group of other gay guys, I feel I'm not gay enough to blend in. And with the former group, it's awkward because I'm actively trying to avoid doing anything that could even be construed as hitting on them.

God r99 you sound pathetic. Calm yourself, can you not just hang out with straight guys and have fun without obsessing about getting into their pants? You are the worst stereotype of a gay guy come to life.

sing it r102

I prefer hanging around straight guys. There's no pressure sexually, we are just bros!

exactly, r104, bros being bros

What planet do you live on, OP? Just be a dude.

[quote]Anyone else feel this way?

Probably. There are a lot of mentally ill people in the world.

I do hate that all straight men seem to talk about is sports and women. No emotional talk at all. It's freaky.

Do any of them actually make real friends?

r108, I love to talk about sports. It's a dude thing.

o

I also don't like hanging around straight Alpha male types, especially when they think I am straight too. It's boring as fuck. When you find a nice group of open minded straight guys, it's fun, they are willing to talk about more than sport or pussy. At least I know a lot about cars so I can steer the conversation in that direction.

Most straight men today don't talk a lot about cars. Sure, it may come up in passing, but it is not a huge topic of conversation among men under 50.

Females make the best friends for most gay men. I'm not talking about fag hags. I like straight and lesbian women who are funny, intelligent and can talk about ANYTHING without blushing.

Why is it compulsory that you go? Just don't go. They will still have a good time. If they ask you later why you weren't there, say, "I didn't want to," and leave it at that. There's no counter-argument for "i didn't want to."

r113, speak for yourself, man. Stop projecting your personal preferences as indicative of what most or all gay men want, do, or desire. That is what you like.

Most are psychological weaklings, pack animals, afraid to stand alone, brah

[quote]Straight guys don't generally gossip

lol

let me say it again

LOL

The bitchiest and the most evil gossips I've known have been straight men. Not that some women and gay guys are that far behind.

Oh, Puh-leeze. Once they get drunk and horny, THEN we'll see just how completely straight they are, or aren't.

Oh, and God only knows the SM fantasies some straight boys have that they never, ever tell their wives/girl friends. Get them to talk about being brahs in the military. 100% straight? Doubt it.The macho ones hide it better, IMO.

Smdh

Interesting

Wow!

Get real dude. Man up

Oh wow OP. Smh

OP, it sounds like you are afraid of attracting Captain Butler's attention. A beautiful dress made out of the curtains, colored to highlight your flashing eyes, might distract him from his manly he-talk and cigars!

Huh?

Bump

HELLO MY FRIEND... I WAS ONCE "STRAIGHT" (THREE EX-WIVES), BUT NOW AM 100% GAY, TOTALLY OF THE "BOTTOM" PREFERENCE. IN MY 71 YEARS I PREFER MY "BOTTOM" YEAR MORE THAN MY PREVIOUS 70 "STRAIGHT" YEARS--I STILL LOVE STRAIGHT MEN, BUT ONLY WHEN THEY ARE "TOPS", AND WILLING TO "PLAY". BLESS, BILL

They cause me to fill my underwear with an engorged excited penis not terror!!

Oh wow bro

I feel you OP. I’m a lesbian (semi-closeted) and I panic whenever I’m expected to converse or socialise with any straight woman younger than 55-60.

In the course of typical greeting & discussion with such a woman I often end up automatically behaving in a very fake and affected way; I start smizing, I chatter nervously about inane things and ask pointed & fast personal questions, my body language turns submissive, the pitch of my voice goes way up to the point it sounds weird and I don’t stop myself until it’s too late. I totally panic and it’s 100x worse if she’s my age (Millennial) and/or cute & sexy/beautiful. On the positive side I will say that I’m slowly getting better at it working in womens’ retail, but still go to pieces if expected to connect with a customer or build a relationship (ditto for potential friends or a gf which I also lack).

I don’t know what to do with myself or how to behave like a relaxed casual confident lesbian around a gaggle of het women, and have never figured out how to infiltrate a group of straight girls even if they’re classmates or colleagues (I was a loner in school). The only difference with me is that sadly I dislike hanging out with guys too, as I’m not a tomboy or a butch (more granola femme) and often find them boring & skeezy (straights) or rude & dismissive (gays, ime irl - present company excluded). I don’t like Ts at all so my social options are limited to cyberspace, pets, trusted family members & myself. It sucks.

Someone once gave me the advice to talk to everyone as if both me and the other person were kids; not in a condescending way but in the sense that kids socialise without seeing things like sexuality & age & gender, and concern themselves more with finding out what the other person likes and if they want to hang out. It’s helped me a little so perhaps it’ll help you too, OP?

Some gay guys act like they are a different sex from other maleS. They make themselves ostracized. Just act normal and fit in with the fellas.

Wow, how about GROWING A PAIR and manning up, ya big sissy.

nope, silly

A compulsory bachelor party? No one can force yo to go. Get pretend sick!

You need to check the date on the OP, R135. The mad bumper is at it again.

You do all realize this is a thread from 2013, right?

It's the black bisexual with masculinity issues. He's been doing it all morning.

Five years and counting

Grow up OP

R138 Is that the dude who always used to post photos of himself?

Straight men are funny with their hierarchy, they are just complete pack animals. My gay friends all compete for the HBI title. They gossip about each other and and will cut a bitch for some good dick. But, they also understand me and will back me up when I'm feeling down or lose my confidence. They fill a need in my life, even if they gossip and fight like crabs in a barrel.

Straight men in groups fall in line. I've seen at my new job. 12 of us are in a room, 50/50 split girl to guy. i'm the only gay guy in the training and a little older then the rest. The other straight guys naturally organized themselves based on the coolest one, a hot frat boy, business major. The others sort of look up to him or will make sure they include him in their lunch plans. If someone's buying a soda, well, they wont forget to maybe bring the hottie one. The females are friendly, but all rather independent. Everyone is focused on the work and training, but the social hierarchy with straight men is hilarious. frat boy is generally curious in me because I refuse to kiss his ass (though I'd eat it if given a real chance) and I'm funny as hell. I made it known, due to a rather intrusive ice breaker, that I'm gay. People tell me I'm rather masculine acting so they don't always know. I treat him like I would any other friend and he reaches out to me for guidance and general camaraderie.

All men are always always reassessing their placement within a group, but straight guys seem to accept their place once it's been established.

Straight guys respect confident, nice, and possibly funny guys. As long as you aren't hitting on them and respect their boundaries you won't have any problems. I know this thread is ancient but others may be interested in this topic.

r56 blast from the past. Straight men are such gossip queens. It's because of their hierarchical social setup, similar to a corporate America, where those on the bottom try to please the ones above them. In this instance, knowledge is power, thus straight men get to gossiping.

[R113], women don't have gay male friends... they have "always already available emotional tampons to help them manage their constant mood swings" ... only bored gay males have that much time to waste with them, and are so desperate to view that as friendship.

I think it depends on the person r144. I have a gorgeous friend that called me up one summer day to hangout. I wasn't doing anything so I was fine with coming over to a nice bar. She wanted a friend to meet her new boyfriend's friends. I was the only one available on a beautiful sunny Saturday. I should have felt foolish running over there, but I rarely get invitations. Despite being the "gay friend" her new man and his equally hot as fire friends were a blast. We ended hanging out all day. Then she reached out to me again and this happened three more times. I loved it, because we were going to nice parts of the city and it was nice to be included. She has other friends, but they are like her and get wrapped up into their men. This co-dependency lasted a couple of months into the Fall as she went from one dude to another, thanks Tinder/Hing. Finally, she found a good man and with that she al but disappeared.

I was fine with that because I had already bought a new wardrobe and become accustom to going out. I had gay friends that I wasn't being intention with. I started asking them if I could hangout with them and simply transition from my female friends over to my gay friends. I realize that she was using me, but no one else in the world invited me out those summer days. I thank her for breaking me out of my cycle. In exchange I had to listen to every one of her low self-esteem rants, despite being a gorgeous woman, and her 1001 questions about men. She did score some eye candy and I nearly hooked up with one of her boyfriend's "straight friends" and secured a job recommendation for my current employer. That was a wonderful summer thanks to my female friend.

Op, I wouldn't be concerned about straight guys. Many just don't want you to hit on them or they may try to calibrate their actions around you. You will know if a guy is an asshole or uncomfortable around you. It sucks, but most are fine or curious about gay men.

Was going to suggest to OP that he call in sick just before the date of this bachelor party with bad cough, high fever, loss of taste etc etc, i.e a bunch of COVID symptoms.... then I saw the date on the thread

R12 are you me? Blunt, messy, crude and rarely think before I speak, plus not generally attracted to straight men, thats me pretty much. I can alwasy talk to straight men about cars or guns, dont know fuckall about sports though

They're more afraid of you than you are of them, OP.

At this particular gym I've been going to for 9 years, the ostensibly straight guys I've come to know, and regularly say hello to and shoot the breeze with, have turned out to be really cool, friendly and laid-back, once I gave them a chance. I wish more gay guys I know could do as much and let go of the bitchiness, drama and clannishness.

Correct r148. The trauma from your youth was years or decades ago. The Western World has changed. There are so many cool people you may miss out on if you allow fear to stop you from interacting with others.

My opinion is that you have to be guarded with all groups in different ways.

Women—don’t let them use you for emotional support. A lot of gay men become that cliche stylish gay confidante who gives them advice, allows them to be cunty, gossipy, etc . I found most of my friendships with women were usually hugely imbalanced, and anything related to my life as a gay man that was real was usually acknowledged with a kind of bemused. morbid curiosity—as if my relationships etc were knockoff version of her “real” hetero life. Unless their is true reciprocity in the friendship, shields up.

Gay Men—I tend to be wary of gay men as friends. Some have been wonderful, but I find that when if comes to groups of gay men, many fall into a “Mean Girls” dynamic. I’m not sure if this is because a lot of gay guys socialized with women when they were younger or because of natural tendencies in how innately we are, but I think it’s probably little of both. I find most gay men value or devalue you based on your social currency or how sexually viable you are—in other words, how cool you are (or will make them look/feel by association)—or whether or not you are a potential sex partner or bf/partner/husband. Obviously this isn’t all gay men, but it can make finding real gay friends a challenge.

Straight guys—a lot of gay guys confuse social tolerance from straight guys with real acceptance. Most of us grew up being verbally and physically harassed by straight men, so now that this doesn’t happen for the most part in social or professional circles, we think that they have somehow had an epiphany and that all of their biases and phobias about gay men are gone. It can lead us into a false sense of security where we think it’s ok to join in convos about sex or relationships in the same way other straight guys do. However, join a conversation where they are bitching about their wives/girlfriends with a comment about how your boyfriend does the same thing and watch the air stop moving.

I do believe there are straight guys who one on one are legitimately cool, but in a group, there’s a nuanced hetero social dynamic that we throw off with casual comments that “normalize” our reality as gay men. You also have to be careful about how casually honest you are, even with straight guys you think know and trust you, because even an innocuous compliment or comment or joke about sex can be misconstrued as suspect.

And most straight guys don’t want to hear about your gay life in and real way, and like many straight women, treat our relationships etc. with a bemused morbid curiosity. However, if they need support with their “real” relationships with women, we are expected to be there for them.

Anyway, these are just some of my observations based on my own experiences. These may not match your own, reality, but perhaps some things I’ve shared might help you make better choices and decide who os really worthy of your friendship, regardless of gender or orientation.

It all depends - some straight guys are toxic ex-jocks. I would avoid packs of those - it's exhausting and no fun.

But the majority are fine - yet it really depends who they are around. One bad alpha male can spoil an entire gathering.

R148 I found that true as well. I had issues from being bullied as a kid and was intimidated by gym bodybuilders and had a negative perception of them. I assumed I’d be judged or laughed at if I attempted to use free weights. But by talking to them, I found many are very nice and even go out of their way to be helpful with workouts.

I'm with you, OP, except for the envy and lust. That went out the window when I got into K-pop and K-drama: I like the sweet flower boy thing now.

R153 Gross

Heterosexual men are untrustworthy and will talk shit about every gay man they know when they aren't around.

R154, what? That's a sticker on his cheek.

It's a heart sticker.

What if they make you perform degrading dances, or sing vulgar and humiliating songs?

"I share office space with a bunch of twenty something straight guys and I like their energy, curiosity, and lack of bitchiness."

Lack of bitchiness? Most straight men support Trump, who is the bitchiest straight man on Planet Earth. Weird that, in order to prop up straight men, people have to resort to all kinds of nasty stereotypes about how gay men are "bitchy" and evil. Most violent crime is caused by straight men.

OP, I totally understand where you are coming from. I was intimidated by straight men too, untill my late 20s. Unlike most gay men, I never got along well with women due to a toxic relationship with my mother, so straight men were pretty much my only option for friends as a teen and young adult. I had to learn how to relax and integrate into the alpha male society, but I never felt fully comfortable with them, and yes, one does feel intimidated because the perpetual potential for physical fights are just a wrong look away, under the surface, especially when alcohol to teen hormones are involved. But as you can see from this thread, you have more to fear from our gay brethren than from straight guys. Now that I am in my 50s I find that straight men are the only men I get along with. This is partly due to the aging process, but mostly due to fact that gay men - in my experience of 30 years being out - are much worse than straight men in a group.

However, with both gay and straight men, my advise is to avoid or minimize contact when alcohol is involved. Alcohol always brings out the worst in people, it might push you into acting in a way that will embarrass you later, and it will definitely bring out the worst in the group you are with. Ignore the sex addicts who are pointing out that this is the perfect opportunity to score some straight cock. The last thing you want is to shit where you eat.

I would go for a couple of drinks, then make a quiet exit after wishing the bachelor best of luck. As a PA, you really don’t have to participate more than that.

r150, this is r145. You're post is spot on and made me re-evaluate my comment and view of my straight friends. Thank you, that hit home.

I like when people say bemused curiosity with regards to gay relationships. That's how I feel when straight guys tell me about their woman. I simply don't really care but out of respect to the friendship, I listen. If they tell me about their sex life, I will confide in them about mine. Most are jealous as hell at the ease in which we can get laid. I once opened up my Grindr and let the notices come in while three of my straight friends and I drank and watched the notifications roll in. If they can can tell me about their hookups than I can share mine. I don't get into specifics. Someone might ask if I top or bottom. You'll have to decide what you want to disclose.

I like a little thrill and can manage a situation with alcohol pretty well. I remain respectful of boundaries and I like to work a room and pull people into a conversation. It helps to ensure that I'm never alone or can make a friend. I also get a kick at that look of relief from straight women when they hear that I'm gay and not going to hit on them. They have to be so guarded at times, a real shame.

Alcohol, if managed correctly can lead to some interesting outcomes. I try to gain a buzz and loosen up without going into full out drunk mode. If you are mildly attractive, the real gay friendly guy will make his way towards you some time during the night. Just avoid the question master that buzzes around you with a couple of drunk inquiries about gay topics. He's not your ally and will be the one to lead the shit talking when you're not around.

OP I have to say that it depends a lot on the socio economic level of the guys you are hanging out with. I work in academia and none of the men act like that. Nor would religious men, like Mormons etc.

I’m at a point now where I am being more selective about who I’m friends with and how much I share or allow people to know about me. I feel like social media and the convenience of devices that connect us so easily has warped my sense of what real friendship and connection should be. I also think my being bullied and socially ostracized as a kid made me a little too “grateful” for the friendship and acceptance of others in my life. I became too dependent on external validation, so I often compromised who I was for the sake of maintaining the esteem or trust of others.

But I no longer put a premium on being accepted by the gay or straight world, and truth be known, most people only value you to the extent that you serve some purpose—sex, professional needs, to alleviate social boredom, etc. I think each of us is better served to focus energy on being happy independent of others—to be more judicious about the people we let into our lives—and to cultivate relationships with people who value us on a level that goes beyond mere convenience.

My new goal is to live a life reflected in these words by Walt Whitman:

I exist as I am, that is enough, If no other in the world be aware, I sit content, And if each and all be aware, I sit content.

What a limited way of looking at things, R144. Watched one rom-com too many, maybe? Many of us have strong, lifelong, enriching, and equitable friendships with women, sometimes going back to our middle-school years.

The reason you feel that is most gay men have zero testosterone and zero ability to fight back against even the tiniest pipsqueak straight man. All a straight man would have to do is blow on a gay man and he will fall over and die. It is sad really.

I’m willing to let straight men blow me r166. If I fall over it’s due to the skills of his slutty mouth, not my testosterone level.