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Most Jews Claim To Be Of Ashkenazi Heritage

How do they know? As far as I know, there's no DNA test that has found any strand of Jewish DNA, so how could anyone make such a claim? Is it a hierarchy thing? I know German Jews would look down their noses at other Jews, sort of like the Asian community does with those that make up their own. I remember when two friends of mine, who are practicing Jews (not Orthodox though), got married, the rabbi almost came in his pants when he found out their surnames. Somehow their names were of mystical origin, and putting the two together was some big deal. All of us, including the two of them, rolled their eyes.

How does anyone still claim that you're only a Jew if your mother is one? That's not science. The liberals Jews have changed their stance on that. This is pretty much the reason why no one can concretely claim Judaism to be a religion or a genetic ethnicity. Can't everyone come to an agreement already?

by Zombie Jesusreply 7704/03/2013

TRADITION!

by Zombie Jesusreply 103/31/2013

I have a friend, born and raised in Midwood Brooklyn, who always points out "We are Austrian Jews."

by Zombie Jesusreply 203/31/2013

Sephardic Jews are much sexier.

by Zombie Jesusreply 303/31/2013

Yes, there is Jewish DNA. 23andMe, FTDNA, and others can tell you whether you're Ashkenazi or not. In fact, they have to change the mechanism for these people because they're so interrelated, it'll show they're more related to each other than they actually are. (meaning, predict a person is 3rd cousins, when they're 10th..but multiply related)

by Zombie Jesusreply 403/31/2013

This is an Umpy thread. You can tell by the obsession with Jews and the faux naive question that tries to stir the shit.

by Zombie Jesusreply 503/31/2013

For non-testers I mean, They'll tell you that you're 57% AJ or whatever you are. And there's a separate feature that identifies actual relatives (if they've tested).

by Zombie Jesusreply 603/31/2013

Don't Sephardic Jews outnumber Ashkenazi worldwide?

by Zombie Jesusreply 703/31/2013

[quote]How does anyone still claim that you're only a Jew if your mother is one? That's not science.

That's religious law. If you want to argue about it, call a rabbi.

by Zombie Jesusreply 1003/31/2013

OP, you're wrong about the genetics. Ashkenazi Jewish ancestry can be identified genetically from shared identical by descent segments on the autosomes. 23andme and Family Tree DNA both do this with high accuracy.

by Zombie Jesusreply 1303/31/2013

Umpy, Jewish people can't become born again Christians. Only Christians can be born again Christians.

by Zombie Jesusreply 1403/31/2013

[quote]No. There are scientists who believe they're on to finding it, but still nothing. If anything, you'd find Arab origin.

No, there is a Cohanim genetic marker.

And if you didn't know about that or markers indicating Ashkenazi ancestry, you really have no business issuing pronouncements on genetics.

by Zombie Jesusreply 1503/31/2013

What the hell is an Ashkenazi?

I thought Judaism was a religion and not a race. Isn't that what the Nazi's thought?

by Zombie Jesusreply 1603/31/2013

I have both Ashkenazi and Sephardic ancestry, no one made a big deal of either when I was growing up. Apparently my Sephardic ancestors fled Spain during the Inquisition and then intermarried with the Ashkenazi, so most of their Sephardic traditions were lost.

by Zombie Jesusreply 1703/31/2013

google it, r16; there's a Wikipedia entry on Ashkenazi Jews.

My father is a Jew of Ashkenazi descent. It's something none of us ever took into consideration until he recently was diagnosed with a genetic condition that, though not strictly confined to the Ashkenazi Jewish population, is definitely more prevalent in Ashkenazi Jews. So, that sucks.

There are actually a bunch of genetic conditions that are more likely to occur in populations of Ashkenazi Jewish descent (just like there are genetic conditions more prevalent in Anglo-Saxon heritage, African-American, among Sephardic Jews, etc.) ...to an extent it can be useful to know your ethnic/genetic heritage so you can be tested for certain markers and know what to look out for, both for yourself or if you plan on having children.

by Zombie Jesusreply 1803/31/2013

In the US I have never met a Jew who was not Ashkenazi. I know the Sephardic Jews are out there someplace but I've only encountered them in books.

Where I've lived, most Jews have come from Russia, Austria, or Romania.

by Zombie Jesusreply 1903/31/2013

Sephardic last names often (not always) end in "-a" or "-o" because the Sephardi were from Iberia: hence names like "Shapiro,"

by Zombie Jesusreply 2003/31/2013

My mother's family came from Russia. Both sides. We know where her mother and father were born, and we know that their ancestors had lived in those areas for at least 600 years. My father was born in Poland, and his family lived in the same town in Poland (ie. shtetl) for at least 400 years that we can trace.

That makes me an Ashkenazi Jew. Nearly every Ashkenazi Jew can do the same thing. Once you trace them back to where they came from in Europe, chances are their families lived there for several hundred years.

by Zombie Jesusreply 2103/31/2013

[quote]Remember Whitney Houston with the whole tribe of Jesus/Africa thing? by: OP

Umpy, you got in BIG trouble the last time you brought up something from Whitney Houston's past here: remember? I would have thought you would have learned a lesson.

by Zombie Jesusreply 2304/01/2013

OP, would you please explain why you can tolerate embodying the axiom "you are what you eat" when it's clear the conclusion drawn is that you eat shit?

It's neither humorous or canny. It is hate speech dressed as idiocy.

by Zombie Jesusreply 2404/01/2013

Ashkenazi Jews tend to be the lighter Jews that are European. They mixed with native European populations and their ancestors became Jewish through marriage.

by Zombie Jesusreply 2504/01/2013

[3] Thank you! I am far from a rabbinical scholar or a Jewish family historian, but I can get some anecdotal info. My family is Sephardi. Most people take us to be Mediterranean. My brothers look like Pete Sampras and Ricky Martin.

Huge huge difference from the Germanic or Eastern European Jewish "look" if there is such a thing! I'm kidding--we all know there is such a thing.

by Zombie Jesusreply 2604/01/2013

Sephardic Jews are Mediterranean, mostly forced out of Spain during the Inquisition after millenia of living there. They settled in Italy, Greece, Turkey, North Africa and the Holy Lands. They have dark features, compared to Jews in other parts of Europe, and often have Italian and Greek sounding names. This is from recent research on my part. I apologize if I have made errors in this description.

by Zombie Jesusreply 2704/01/2013

Thousands fled to Mexico as conquistadors or as whole families and made their way into the southwest over three hundred years ago. Then they mixed with everybody---anglos, irish, germans, blacks, indians, etc.

The Sephardim were in America long before the Ashkenazi. they have a very long and rich history in the U.S. and Mexico.

They all became Catholics as well.

by Zombie Jesusreply 2804/01/2013

[quote]Which is not terribly far. You are not interested in knowledge. You are interested in the fantasy that Jews are just a modern European creation to steal Arab land. Unfortunately for you, history and science refute your pathetic belief.

Nice try.

by Zombie Jesusreply 2904/01/2013

[quote]Umpy, Jewish people can't become born again Christians. Only Christians can be born again Christians.

Not umpy, but he converted to Christianity first.

by Zombie Jesusreply 3004/01/2013

[quote]There are actually a bunch of genetic conditions that are more likely to occur in populations of Ashkenazi Jewish descent

but is the condition stemming from the country they were living in where non-Jews from said country also have that same genetic condition?

The only scientists who seem interested in finding a genetic strand are doing so for religious purposes, and/or the Middle East crisis (which has been going on forever now).

Funnily enough, those involved in the Middle East crisis are most likely related.

by Zombie Jesusreply 3104/01/2013

r22 nailed it.

by Zombie Jesusreply 3204/01/2013

R32...no not really.

by Zombie Jesusreply 3304/01/2013

Yes, really, r33.

It has been repeatedly pointed out to OP that his premise is false, but he simply ignores that.

He's not fooling anyone (well, anyone sensible, at least).

by Zombie Jesusreply 3404/01/2013

Are you also perplexed by the existence of African-Americans who have never been to Africa, r2?

by Zombie Jesusreply 3504/01/2013

Who cares? Is it some big deal among Jews?

by Zombie Jesusreply 3604/01/2013

In Jewry, someone has asked above if having Ashkenazi heritage is a plus or a minus.

Well?

What say, DL Jews?

by Zombie Jesusreply 3804/01/2013

No, r37, but there must be some reason for his strange agenda of denying the existence of Jewish ethnicity - and that's the most plausible one.

As confirmed by the fact that your defense of OP has now been revealed to by motivated by a similarly piss-ignorant understanding of the Middle East conflict and its history.

by Zombie Jesusreply 3904/01/2013

jewish dna? wtf?

by Zombie Jesusreply 4004/01/2013

Mitochondrial DNA says 40% of Ashkenazi Jews are descended from just four women who lived around jesus' time.

by Zombie Jesusreply 4104/01/2013

[quote]I know the Sephardic Jews are out there someplace but I've only encountered them in books.

They abound in Israel.

[quote]They all became Catholics as well.

But they retained and passed down lots of crypto-Jewish traditions and cuisine.

[quote]jewish dna? wtf?

What is so difficult to understand about this?

by Zombie Jesusreply 4204/01/2013

Well, if Abraham had two sons, one the father of the Jews and one the father of (Bedoins, Arabs?) and Isaac had two sons, one the next "father of the Jews" and the other the father of the Edomites (presumably a local tribe) and all four picked wives that weren't their own sisters (yes I know at least one of them had wives who were sisters and his first or second cousins) aren't all of those "nations/races" from the same source anyway?

by Zombie Jesusreply 4304/01/2013

uh, no R14..

by Zombie Jesusreply 4404/01/2013

OP, I had the 23andMe DNA test done for health reasons and it shows all the regions your DNA originated from. I'm not Jewish and my DNA composition was something like 75% European (with sub-regional breakdowns), 12% Sub-Saharan African, 11% Native American or East Asian and little bits of "other" unknown remaining. The European DNA is broken down regionally into Northern European, Southern European, Eastern European and Ashkenazi. I show 0.5% Ashkenazi genes and there are many people on the site who have nearly entirely Ashkenazi DNA, half, partial, etc. This is real and not particularly complicated.

by Zombie Jesusreply 4504/01/2013

We know if we are ashkanzaie (sp) or not because we know our family heritage. My grandparents were eastern European so we are ashkanazie. Sepgarsid jews overweaning hubris really cracks me up. I had an aunt by marriage who would always remind people "I AM A MANSDORF>" Like who cares? What I resent is the way synagogues, whose members are overwhelmngly ashkanzie have dropped ashkanzaie hebrew in favor to sepgardic hebrew. I am NOT sephardic. I am ashkanazie and if I cannot worship in the hebrew that my granfather's knew, I am not interested.

As for who is jewish an who isn't? Who decides? Jewish law dwcides. IF you your mother is jewis you are jewish-period. If you mother isn't jewish and your father is, you are NOT. You may go to synagogue, even get bar mitzvahed, but unless you convert, you are NOT jewish.

by Zombie Jesusreply 4604/01/2013

{quote]I have a friend, born and raised in Midwood Brooklyn, who always points out "We are Austrian Jews."

And I'm sure like most of them, thinks (s)he has more right in the Middle East than the actual brown people who aren't Jewish.

by Zombie Jesusreply 4704/01/2013

I should add that Middle Eastern & North African are their own genetic category with their own regional and sub-regional breakdowns as well. Those genes are not Ashkenazi genes which are classified as a regional European category.

by Zombie Jesusreply 4804/01/2013

As an apathetic-agnostic American I will ask this. Who gives a shit?

by Zombie Jesusreply 4904/01/2013

There is genetic evidence identifying the various Jewish populations. The element which is missing is strong genetic evidence that those populations are linked to the ancient inhabitants of Palestine.

The reason is that in its earlier form up till the Middle Ages Judaism was an evangelising religion, like Christianity and Islam are now. Significant populations in Europe, North Africa and (to a lesser extent) Asia were converted to Judaism. There is the well-known example of the Khazars in what is now the South Russian steppes, a whole tribe which adopted Judaism but whose origins were unconnected with the Levant, but there were also many other well-attested smaller-scale examples. The result is that many self-identifying modern Jews do not have any significant ethnic connection with the ancient Middle East.

The Ashkenazi population is less likely to have Middle-Eastern origins; the Sephardic population more so.

by Zombie Jesusreply 5104/01/2013

R43... you know none of those people really existed, right?

by Zombie Jesusreply 5204/01/2013

"Judaism is not a race

Judaism is not a race because Jews do not share one common ancestry. For instance, Ashkenazi Jews and Sephardic Jews are both "Jewish." However, whereas Ashkenazi Jews often hail from Europe, Sephardic Jews often hail from the Middle East. People of many different races have become Jewish over the centuries.

Judaism is not a nationality

Although today Israel is often called the Jewish homeland, being Jewish is not a nationality because Jews have been dispersed throughout the world for almost two thousand years. Hence, Jews come from countries all over the world.

Judaism is both a cultural and religious identity

Being Jewish means that you are part of the Jewish people, whether because you were born into a Jewish home and culturally identify as Jewish or because you practice the Jewish religion (or both).

Cultural Judaism includes things such as Jewish foods, customs and rituals. For instance, many people are born into Jewish homes and are raised eating blintzes and lighting shabbat candles, but never step foot inside a synagogue. A Jewish identity is automatically bestowed on babies of Jewish mothers (according to Orthodox and Conservative Judaism) and of Jewish mothers or fathers (according to Reform Judaism). This Jewish identity stays with them throughout life even if they don't actively practice Judaism.

Religious Judaism includes the beliefs of the Jewish religion. The way a person practices the Jewish religion can take many forms and partially for this reason there are different movements of Judaism. The main denominations are Reform, Conservative, Orthodox and Reconstructionist Judaism. Many people who are born into Jewish homes affiliate with one of these branches, but there are also those who do not.

If a person is not born Jewish, s/he can convert to Judaism by studying with a rabbi and undergoing the process of conversion. Merely believing in the precepts of Judaism is not enough to make someone a Jew. They must complete the conversion process in order to be considered Jewish. Though the different branches of Judaism have varying requirements for conversion, it is safe to say that the conversion process is very meaningful for whomever decides to undertake it."

by Zombie Jesusreply 5304/01/2013

My Jewish partner's DNA breakdown is mostly Middle Easten with a dash of Scandinavian (probably via Lithuania) and Eastern European (only 8%). The families immigrated to the US from Poland and Russia and are considered Ashkenazy.

by Zombie Jesusreply 5404/01/2013

On GEDMatch (and with any number of DNA analysists) there are various programs which will give differing results based on the sample populations they use to determine their matches. On 23andMe, Ashkenazi is a completely separate category from Eastern European and Middle Eastern/North African neither of which I have any DNA matches for despite having 0.5% Ashkenazi genes.

There are many people in the forums who are distraught and angry and disbelieving that their results show no Native American heritage despite the family legend of a Cherokee Princess in their mix and the same thing happens with all rumored genetic heritage, including with people who claim Ashkenazi roots despite factually having none. I don't understand why anyone fucking cares, but whatever.

by Zombie Jesusreply 5504/01/2013

There was a Natgeo special some years ago where they found a man in Afghanistan or Iraq who held DNA that every human on earth shares. That was interesting. The Ashkenazi testing is mostly done to check for genetic diseases. Does it really tell us anything new? No. The latest mystery researchers are trying to crack is genetic proof that the Vikings mixed with Amerindians people in Eastern Canada. Five hundred years before Colombus, the Vikings had made it to Canada. Their settlements were discovered in the mid sixties. If your ancestors hail from that region of Canada then you can get your DNA panels checked for free. There is ongoing testing of Greenland natives as well. This is similar to the genetic testing done on Australian Aboriginals which proved they were African in origin.

by Zombie Jesusreply 5604/01/2013

R22, how does having descent from Poland or Russia mean you have more rights over land in another region of the world than the people living there do?

by Zombie Jesusreply 5704/01/2013

Thanks, r13. I don't know where the OP is getting his/her information.

by Zombie Jesusreply 5804/01/2013

Ashkenazi jews carry a gene mutation that gives them high IQs.

The same gene mutation makes them prone to Tay-Sachs disease.

by Zombie Jesusreply 5904/01/2013

No R59, the high IQ claim has been debunked. It is a fallacy. The truth is that they always prized higher education but aren't superior in raw intelligence. IIRC, high IQs were found to be common in nonjewish populations of Estonia or somewhere around there. Don't buy that jewish hype designed to make other jews somehow feel above the rest of us. If your claim was true then Israel would be the leader in technical innovations. Their biggest export? Fruits and vegetables from farming. Also, the bests artists of the world were never jews.

by Zombie Jesusreply 6004/01/2013

r60 is in denial.

by Zombie Jesusreply 6104/01/2013

61 is confusing trade and education with raw intelligence. Compare Israel and Germany for stats and the big picture.

by Zombie Jesusreply 6204/01/2013

Please remember when you discuss anything related to Judiasm that there are many different but very valid opinions. There isn't anyone comparable to the Pope that makes decisions for all.

Many Jews can trace their ancestry; it's considered an important value. There are those that can go back several generations or more. Sephardic Jews have roots primarily in Spain.

In times of great tragedy Jewish girls were sometimes raped or forced into marriages with non-Jews. There was always the question of the identity of the child. Traditionally the Mother was responsible for child rearing, so it was determined that the baby should follow the religion of the Mother. In cases of adoption or where the Mother is not Jewish, the child can always convert and accept the struggles and history of the Jewish people as his/her own.

by Zombie Jesusreply 6304/01/2013

OP, Jews are matrilineal, i.e. the heritage travels through the maternal side of the family. My guess is that it has to do with the fact that it is easier to know who the mother is than who the father is, because she bore the child.

by Zombie Jesusreply 6404/01/2013

R26, On entering the world of acting I was told to Anglicize my name as I "don't look at all like Barbara Streisand." Three of my 4 grandparents from the former Soviet Union had blond hair, blue eyes, and fair skin. I look very Midwestern as a result. By the way we maintained contact with our relatives who've lived under Communism.

by Zombie Jesusreply 6504/01/2013

R38, In the same way that Americans of British ancestry may feel that they are superior to those of Hispanic heritage, and that some Japanese believe their culture better than other Asians, like those from the Phillipines, Ashkenazi Jews often separate themselves from Sehpardic Jews. The values both groups of Jews were raised with are not identical.

by Zombie Jesusreply 6604/01/2013

At last, someone answered my question.

Thank you r66!

So please continue, what are the family values, in general, of each group?

TIA.

by Zombie Jesusreply 6704/01/2013

Fuck off, OP.

by Zombie Jesusreply 6804/01/2013

R67, I can only truly guess at the answer to your query of the differences in family values between Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jewish families. In part each reflect the surrounding locales in which they were raised as well.

Being raised 100% Askenazi, the importance of reading and education was paramount. I have never heard of an illiterate Askenazi. Desirable mates, especially males, were the most learned. It became important to educate young woman when it was realized that the result was smarter boys. Discussion and debate, rather than acquiescence, is seen as a factor of intelligence. Classical music appreciation is also paramount. Religious education involves history and music too. Health of a mate always mattered far more than looks. It was always assumed that you had to be far better to succeed, and that you needed good health for that goal. Kids must achieve more than their parents, as they typically have more opportunities.

by Zombie Jesusreply 6904/01/2013

[quote]Only Christians can be born again Christians.

Tell that to BAC's

by Zombie Jesusreply 7004/01/2013

no r46 as someone already stated the reform movement of Judaism considers someone to be Jewish if their mom and or dad is Jewish.

by Zombie Jesusreply 7104/01/2013

[quote]IF you your mother is jewish you are jewish-period. If you mother isn't jewish and your father is, you are NOT.

Right only on the first part. There is nothing in Jewish law that says you are NOT Jewish if only your father is.

by Zombie Jesusreply 7204/01/2013

Bottom line, anyone born after WWIII has 80 generations or so of direct ancestry from the time of Jesus. That’s 2 parents, 4 grandparents, 8 great-grandparents… Each generation doubles in size and averages 25 years. That means we each have approximately 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (a septillion) direct ancestors who were alive at the time of Jesus. The world had a population of 250,000,000 (two hundred fifty million) at the time of Jesus. Do the math; we’re all related. It doesn’t matter how we categorize ourselves, at a nude beach we are all built alike. I’m not having a Kumbayah moment here. The men I see at that nude beach might be attractive to me. That’s incestuous. Some of those men are very attractive to me…

by Zombie Jesusreply 7404/01/2013

[quote] mystical origin

Oh, brother.

by Zombie Jesusreply 7504/02/2013

The original Jews to settle in America were Sephardim from Brazil. In spite of Peter Stuyvesant's opposition, the Dutch allowed them to settle in New York.

Their congregation, the Spanish-Portuguese Synagogue on Central Park West is their latest synagogue building.

Because of their early arrival in the US, some Sephardim considered themselves more "aristocratic" than later arrivals. Next were the German Jews and finally the Eastern European Jews.

But, as was said by several posters, who cares?

by Zombie Jesusreply 7604/02/2013
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