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Should I raise kids in the States or try to expatriate for them?

Looking into the future with my partner and the kids I'd like to have, I can't shake the feeling that things are going to get worse here, that they'd inherit a country in turmoil.

- Wealth inequality

- High cost/inaccessibility of health care

- Citizens v. United

- Repeal of Glass-Steagall/lack of transparency on Wall Street

- GM foods

- Rising costs of post-secondary education

I get the feeling that Average Americans are too complacent and that things will have to get a lot worse before people really mobilize to make sure they get better.

Do I want my kids to be a part of that transition? If not, where do we go? Canada? Scandinavia?

by Anonymousreply 5804/14/2013

Try for dual citizenship. By the time they turn 18, they can opt for one or the other, if they're forced.

by Anonymousreply 103/29/2013

As bad as America is....every place else is worse.

and you can't just move to other countries and become a is a very difficult procedure

by Anonymousreply 203/29/2013

It is true that you can't just move somewhere and become a citizen.

But it is absolutely untrue that every place else is much worse. Do a bit of research and you will find that the US is lagging behind in just about every area except gun saturation, failed corporations and military budget spending and you certainly can be proud of that!

In other Western countries the standard of living, health care, education system, job stability, financial stability, infrastructure spending, corporate responsibility laws etc. etc. and etc... (the list goes on) is much higher.

Do some research.

by Anonymousreply 303/29/2013

Myanmar is nice

by Anonymousreply 403/29/2013

Greece, Ireland, The UK, Spain, Portugal....well never mind.

by Anonymousreply 503/30/2013

Why not try Freedonia?

by Anonymousreply 603/30/2013

wealth inequality is only bad if you are on the low end of it ....otherwise it is fabulous.

by Anonymousreply 703/30/2013

Most people are on the lower end R7.

Well, except for in the imaginations of the caftan and earrings crowd at DL.

by Anonymousreply 803/30/2013

If you're serious, look into the requirements for full citizenship for yourself and your partner and children. That's a very difficult, long and sometimes expensive project, unless you have a highly valued skill and can get a connected sponsor.

Although no one can foresee the future, and crises could happen anywhere, Swiss, Germans, Scandinavians and Finns have a much better quality of life than you'll find in USA. People live longer, medical care is either free or very low cost and extends to dental and psychological treatment, pharmaceuticals are much, much cheaper. Elder care and specialized care is much better.

Education is better at primary and secondary levels, and although there are 'private' schools that can be costly, standard education is outstanding. Higher education is either free, or low cost. There is still an emphasis on intellectual excellence, and very much an easy access to all the arts, but those who are not interested still get solid up to the second educations in skills that often land them well paying jobs.

Taxes are very high and enforcement is tough, and not every section of those countries is paradise. There are humane programs for those who are poorer or on the lower end of the scale but maintaining what we would call a 'middle class' life is expensive. And you would never be far from the glamour places and beaches in the more troubled South, though the town you settle in might be dull.

by Anonymousreply 903/30/2013

Definitely Finland.

by Anonymousreply 1003/30/2013


No matter what happens, they will have guaranteed health care if and when they need it.

by Anonymousreply 1103/30/2013

You're too paranoid to have children. You run the risk of being an overbearing helicopter parent. Your children will become overly attached to you, never be able to function on their own as adults and you will be stuck looking after them for the rest of your life. The alternative is they resent the controlling ways you micro managed their life so much they shoot you in the face while you're asleep.

by Anonymousreply 1203/30/2013

OP, you sound like the kind of alarmist who ends up drowning their kids in a bathtub. Get a shelter dog.

by Anonymousreply 1303/30/2013

[R9] here. I agree with OP (without knowing if it's a serious post). Things are bad in USA and will only get worse. However, beside what I wrote above, I can tell you, you have to learn the language of any country you intend to settle in. Though many Europeans speak English from fairly well to fluently, that doesn't help when you are trying to operate day to day in a society, nor can you count on everybody you work with speaking more than a bit of English. Germany probably has the largest population of capable English speakers -- in the big urban areas. Outside of them though (where your job/home might be) non-speakers predominate. The same is true in the Scandinavian countries and Finland. Switzerland, in my experience, has more English speakers but again it helps to know your way around their German dialect.

by Anonymousreply 1403/30/2013

R11. Until they go broke. Nothing is forever.

by Anonymousreply 1503/30/2013

LOL, you think the U.S. is bad, everywhere else is a few times worse. I'd stay in the States. The only other place I could think of that is close to being good is Australia, but people are quite lazy there.

by Anonymousreply 1603/30/2013

[quote] Until they go broke. Nothing is forever.

R15 Universal healthcare is sacred in Canada. You poll any Canadian, and they would all agree to pay higher taxes to continue the healthcare coverage.

by Anonymousreply 1703/30/2013

Budgets are budgets sweetie

by Anonymousreply 1803/30/2013

You'd have to be Canadian to understand R18

by Anonymousreply 1903/30/2013

Where are you considering going to?

by Anonymousreply 2003/30/2013

Oops.sorry. You already addressed that issue. I'm getting used to my iPad.

by Anonymousreply 2103/30/2013

R17 needs to be shot in the face and have its fucking throat slit from ear to ear.

healthcare is a privilege not a right. Nothing is free dirtbag.

by Anonymousreply 2203/30/2013

R22, girl, breathe...

by Anonymousreply 2303/30/2013

Lets shoot R22 in the face, and see what kind of health care he gets in America without a Blue Cross card in his wallet. I think he'll change his tune.

by Anonymousreply 2403/30/2013

I have Blue Cross. I'm upper class.

by Anonymousreply 2503/30/2013

OP here. Canada is close enough to family in the States, close enough culturally and close enough to the US that it will always have big brother to watch over it militarily. So long as the US is armed to the teeth, no one will ever invade Canada.

I have roots in Scandinavia. Have been looking into Sweden. They seem to be taking the right steps towards long-term sustainability. The only problems are that Scandinavia is so far from our families, and if there ever is another world war, I can't see Scandinavia (Sweden especially) defending itself. It's kind of a sitting duck for its oil reserves.

by Anonymousreply 2603/30/2013

Oh please. Try getting citizenship in Sweden. It won't happen darling. My husband was BORN there and they won't give it to him. And so was his mother and grandparents, a long long line of Swedes. He was raised in the UK and missed that dual citizenship opportunity.

by Anonymousreply 2703/30/2013

Consider this scenario. The deficit problem worsens. Demand for our debt slips, either the Euro's or Chinese manage to snatch the reserve currency status, interest rates rise and, finally, we announce that we are pulling back to get our own house in order. No more keeping the rest of the world from destroying themselves or each other. Complete isolationism. Could happen. So, where would you like to be living when that happens? Here, or in a country anywhere near Russia, China, Korea or Iran?

by Anonymousreply 2803/31/2013

R22 We in Canada do not get free healthcare.

We pay much higher taxes in Canada to receive UNIVERSAL healthcare. It is available to every Canadian citizen when and if we need it.

Healthcare is sacred in Canada, and no politician has ever suggested privatizing it.

If a politician ever did, he would lose the election.

by Anonymousreply 2903/31/2013

What about Anne Murray? Does she have to wait in line like the other Canadians or does she get special treatment?

by Anonymousreply 3003/31/2013

[quote] Does she have to wait in line like the other Canadians or does she get special treatment?

It doesn't matter if you have $1 or $10 million dollars.

Everyone waits in line. Nobody's jumps ahead in line because of their wealth or status.

Now some who don't want to wait in line (and have the money) sometimes cross the border to pay for their surgery. Out of their own pocket.

by Anonymousreply 3103/31/2013

OP how are you obtaining these hypothetical children? Look very closely at any prospective country's gay parenting culture and adoption rights.

Or you could stop being such a pussy, quit whining and try to help change things for the better in the US.

by Anonymousreply 3203/31/2013

R22: Every other country with a highly developed economy, and many without, regard universal health care as a public obligation to the individual.

Guess what the get for their tax dollars. They get better medical care, and if you don't believe me, the statistics are at link. These figures are from "Lancet," the British equivalent of "The New England Journal of Medicine." In other words, from an impeccable source, and peer reviewed.

Maternal mortality is the gold standard statistic for health care. The United States comes in 39th, behind such countries as Slovakia and Albania. I invite you to find three countries above the United States that do not have universal, one payer, socialized medicine.

So it is not free? No, but it saves a hell of a lot of money that comes from the tax-payers. Who do you think picks up the health care bill for people without insurance, assuming they can get any at all, the medical-care fairy? We do through our tax dollars.

But wait, we are the tax payers. If you pay taxes at all, I bet you pay a lot smaller percentage of your wealth for the public good than the rest of us do. What gives your class the right to dictate to the ones who pay the tax bills, the right to tell us what benefits we should get.

What if you do pay taxes? That's even worse, because then you are a Quisling to your fellow workers -- pushing for better treatment for the rich while pushing people just like you out of the lifeboat so you can get more legroom.

If we had socialized medicine we would fewer lost days at work and a healthier workforce to make corporations more money with less sick pay, for corporations that have sick pay. I bet you think corporations shouldn't have to pay for health insurance.

Where the f... are we supposed to get insurance then? Bandage each other? Set each others broken bones? Watch each other die because you want another BMW?

Who pays the most for health care in the world? We do. How would you like it if the corporation you work for or own stock in had the highest operating expense in its industry and came in 39th in profits?

Why does the expense bother you? It would make the economy improve. What it does to you is frighten you about higher taxes, except I bet you know everyway possible to avoid taxes. Already paying less than your fair share, you just want to pay less, scumbag.

by Anonymousreply 3303/31/2013

who gives a fuck what you do?

by Anonymousreply 3403/31/2013

Australia - strong economy,low unemployment,universal healthcare,great weather. You get a tax free $5000 bonus for every kid,too.

by Anonymousreply 3503/31/2013

Harper's goal is to destroy what is good about Canada, and that involves dismantling healthcare. He will not come out and say it now (he has it in past) because it would be unpopular. He is doing it by stealth, like all the things he doing to destroy Canada and it is not reported on in the papers. He has already changed the funding formula for healthcare which took billions out of the system to the provinces. No one knows about this because it is not being reported on.

Immigration is not easy.

by Anonymousreply 3603/31/2013

That sounds horrible r31...

That is why I always come back to NYC for my procedures.

by Anonymousreply 3703/31/2013

The #1 rip-off in the US is the lack of universal healthcare. A movement is needed to bring this about. People have to be organized and relentless and fight and scream for it or you will never ever get it.

by Anonymousreply 3803/31/2013

R38 nailed it.

Universal health care with single payer.

by Anonymousreply 3903/31/2013

[quote] healthcare is a privilege not a right. Nothing is free dirtbag

R22 - where I live, access to world standard health care is a right not a privilege and is something we are all happy to pay for in our taxes so that it's available when we need it.

Your attitude personifies everything that is wrong with your country. Also, you sound mentally ill and a fucking douchebag.

by Anonymousreply 4003/31/2013

You don't NEED citizenship in Sweden, you get it in another EU country and then that's it.

by Anonymousreply 4103/31/2013

Yes, expatriate them. You will all immediately have the life of GOOP. I'm guessing you haven't traveled much.

by Anonymousreply 4203/31/2013

Wrong, R41.

by Anonymousreply 4303/31/2013

R38 I'd love to go out and protest for my rights! Just let me finish this Real Housewives marathon and get a refill on my antidepressants first...

Better yet, I'll just go blog about it!

by Anonymousreply 4403/31/2013

You forgot the add HFCS to that list OP.

by Anonymousreply 4503/31/2013

45 responses and not one bossy, judgmental queen screeching at the OP to adopt?

by Anonymousreply 4603/31/2013

Extraordinary the number of people on this thread expressing the view that any move out of the US would be a move for the worse. This is such patent nonsense that it casts doubt on the sanity of those saying it. One can only assume they have never been further than the McDonalds at the end of the street.

You don't need citizenship of a foreign country to live there. Lots of expats live long-term in their adopted country on a work visa, without the need for citizenship.

by Anonymousreply 4703/31/2013

It's not as easy as you think to get a work visa, R47.

by Anonymousreply 4803/31/2013

" One can only assume they have never been further than the McDonalds at the end of the street."

Show me the country you can't eat at McDonalds. Oh that's right I forgot Europe is nothing but a fat free salad bar. A FREE salad bar.

by Anonymousreply 4903/31/2013

For R49

by Anonymousreply 5003/31/2013

NZ is good for kids to be raised in. Safe, better education than most countries.

by Anonymousreply 5103/31/2013

If you have to ask something like that, you don't deserve to live in the U.S. So, get the fuck out.

by Anonymousreply 5203/31/2013

I imagine Miz Murray hires a private jet and flies to Rochester or Houston when she needs a checkup.

by Anonymousreply 5303/31/2013

The OP sounds naive. It takes a lot to get settled in another nation, get the proper papers, and grow accustomed to living there. Don't think OP is worldly enough to pull this off.

by Anonymousreply 5403/31/2013

Obviously not a doctor.

by Anonymousreply 5503/31/2013

You should expatriate. It's easier to get into the US then it is to get out.

by Anonymousreply 5603/31/2013

Thanks, r27. I guess old Canady it is.

by Anonymousreply 5704/02/2013

Op, if you are able to raise kids outside the US make sure you read up on FBAR's and FATCA. You may not be able to get a bank account.

Best of luck.

by Anonymousreply 5804/14/2013
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