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Is religion the greatest barrier to full acceptance of homosexuality and total equality for gay people?

It seems to me that just about everyone who opposes same-sex rights and homosexuality in general does so on religious grounds.

Non religious people will occasionally throw out the "but the Bible says it's wrong" thing without really knowing what they're talking about. They can be easily educated about the truth since they're not committed to a particular religious dogma. But the devoutly religious are a real challenge, aren't they? They're what's holding society and social progress back.

by Anonymousreply 4203/22/2013

Religion plays a part. But many people just find homosexuality to be ugly and dirty. And there are still a great many closet cases, who suffer from self-hate and will live to hurt openly gay people.

Religion can also be just a cover for plain old bigotry.

I think the more people become aware of their own sexuality the more people will accept gays as equals and normal.

by Anonymousreply 103/21/2013

R1 is wrong of course. It is only religion which has made it acceptable, and the whole thing is a lie. There is no possibly valid theology which sees gays as sinful. None.

by Anonymousreply 203/21/2013

I'd like to say yes, because I truly believe we are on the verge of a post-christianity phase of history. So as X's become more and more turned off by the hideously grotesque beliefs and behaviors of the fundies, that would automatically shift all anti marriage equality feelings.

I am an atheist and so are many of my friends. I am sad to say, that while they all support marriage equality, many of the SM just don't like to be around the regular, average GM. Oh sure, they enjoy an occasional over the top Queen for entertainment's sake; but if I were to arrange a "boys only" fly fishing weekend at my cabin, and I wanted to include just a regular Joe who happens to be gay, I would receive some push back from a few. It angers me, but as a woman, I can't seem to convince SM's that the great majority of GM's aren't looking to mount them.

by Anonymousreply 303/21/2013

Is religion the greatest barrier to full acceptance of homosexuality and total equality for gay people?


by Anonymousreply 403/21/2013

The biggest problem is the leaders of the religions. More than half the Catholics support gay marriage so they don't go along with what the bishops are saying. It's probably the same way in many other religions.

by Anonymousreply 503/21/2013

Try holding hands in Mecca.

by Anonymousreply 703/21/2013

How is homosexuality aberrant R6?

by Anonymousreply 803/21/2013

No. Religion is the pretext. As is pointed out millions of times, people who claim a religious reason to be anti-gay have no problem freely breaking other religious rules and commandments. Claiming that religion compels their view is easier than admitting bigotry and/or cruelty.

by Anonymousreply 1003/21/2013

No. But it is seen as different and Jason and Jennifer like "same-ness".

by Anonymousreply 1103/21/2013

Religion is the greatest barrier to anything, ever. Read a little history when you get the chance.

by Anonymousreply 1203/21/2013

[12] has it spot on. If they had a religious foundation for their distaste for "sodomy", then why is every hetero couple at Brigham Young U, not to mention First Baptist Church in ATL, doing the Provo Push?

by Anonymousreply 1303/21/2013

Misogyny and homophobia exist outside of religion. Culture just uses religion to give them a veneer of legitimacy.

Homophobia will stop existing when heterosexual men no longer consider women to be subhuman sex vessels and homosexuality to be affront to masculinity (and they prize their definition of that above pretty much everything). We've managed to socialize them out of, you know, stoning gays and women who fall afoul of male expectations, and many of them now pay lip service to the notion of equality, but I don't think, at heart, most straight men are able (or even want) to empathize with gay men and all women.

We're almost certainly living in the advent of full civil equality for gay people in America, but I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for cultural homophobia (and misogyny) to disappear completely.

by Anonymousreply 1403/21/2013

I agree with R10. Religion as an excuse is often the route prejudiced people take.

by Anonymousreply 1503/21/2013

Surprised by the level of religious defenders in this thread.

by Anonymousreply 1603/22/2013


by Anonymousreply 1703/22/2013

If man invented god why did the invent a homophobic god? But the Geek and Roman religions were not homophobic.

The truth is straight men find the whole aspect of two men having sex gross. They don't want to watch or think about 2 guys having sex or being affectionate with each other, so it's - yeah have your gay right but keep your equality behind closed doors. So it will always be marginalized and therefore never really accepted or truly equal to heterosexuality.

Seth Macfarlne, for all his hollow pro-gay lip service, has done nothing but steadily mock gay men, seems to be misogynistic, transphobic and this from perhaps one of the most out spoken anti-religious atheist.

by Anonymousreply 1803/22/2013

I agree with R15 and R10. There are many people homophobes who aren't at all religious and some religious people who aren't homophobic. Religion is more-so a cover.

That being said nearly all religious people aren't smart enough to make up their own minds and are homophobic because they're told to be so.

R17's link isn't quite true, the "freedom of religion" America was founded on was a one-way freedom.

by Anonymousreply 1903/22/2013

[quote]But the Geek and Roman religions

There's a geek religion?

by Anonymousreply 2003/22/2013

I think R18 meant, "Greek",.

by Anonymousreply 2103/22/2013

Yes, OP. That's why homosexuality flourished in an aethiestic paradise called the Soviet Union.

by Anonymousreply 2203/22/2013

[quote]Is religion the greatest barrier to full acceptance of homosexuality and total equality for gay people?

No. Stupidity caused by religions is.

by Anonymousreply 2303/22/2013

Religion doesn't cause stupidity. Stupid people fall for religion.

by Anonymousreply 2403/22/2013

R24 is stating the obvious.

Equates to the same thing. Stupid people = stupid dogma. Stupid dogma = stupid people.

by Anonymousreply 2503/22/2013

Not quite, R25. Religion can't make a person stupid, but most people who are religious never think critically. They just accept what they're told.

by Anonymousreply 2603/22/2013

Showing "Brokeback Mountain" in China, even though it was cut to bits, was totally shocking for the generally atheistic population.

When homosexuality is seen as more of a mainstream option, likely due to the openness of the younger generations, it will be more widely accepted. There was a time when "living-in-sin" was publicly condemned as well.

by Anonymousreply 2703/22/2013

Very true, R27.

We're moving in the right direction today. Time will move on and things will change.

by Anonymousreply 2803/22/2013

No, it's an excuse, because the same people who use the bible as a reason for being anti-gay, knowingly dismiss many other biblical commands that they know they simply cannot get away with in our society.

They cherry pick what they want and ignore the rest. I know many Christians, mainly Catholics, that are not homophobic or bigoted in any way and do support gay marriage.

[quote]Gay Marriage: Key Data Points from Pew Research

[quote]The rise in support for same-sex marriage over the past decade is among the largest changes in opinion on any policy issue over this time period.

[quote]A significant majority of the public say same-sex couples should have the same legal rights as heterosexuals, but Republicans are divided on the question.

74% of Democrats who are also religious support gay marriage. 49% 0f repugs support gay marriage, even still that is an increase.

by Anonymousreply 2903/22/2013

Yeah, while atheists like Seth MacFarlane and the South Park tards pedal homophobia to frat boy America.

by Anonymousreply 3003/22/2013

Seth macfarlane is a homophobe??? Puh-lease.

by Anonymousreply 3103/22/2013

r31, Seth has been accused as homophobic by many blogs, pro-gay rights groups and on-line media sites. There is no doubt he says he isn't however Family Guy is rather homophobic. I do watch it and at times think, wow that is so offensive, the Family Gay episode was just really offensive and I could just imagine many teenage boys pissing themselves watching the show, I guess actions are better than words, Seth has done nothing for gays but the odd glib, I support gay marriage shit on Bill Maher every few months.

by Anonymousreply 3203/22/2013


r18 is right too!

by Anonymousreply 3303/22/2013

I doubt it's just religion. Consider the "frau" situation & the many gays who find the word acceptable along with singling out women in what is perceived as hateful qualities.

It's obviously not rational considering it's straight men who beat, kill and abuse gays, blacks & women, lead nations to war and are the biggest haters & namecallers.

Some is about insecurity but also behavior that a particular group either resent, are jealous of (like gays towards women) or find irritating and/or disgusting.

When straight men find something disgusting, like prissy gay boys and/or annoying and/or threatening, like other ethnic groups or uncompliant women, they react with violence. But that's not as bothersome inside the gay bubble as women for some reason.

by Anonymousreply 3403/22/2013

It's traditional sex roles that are the problem.

Religious texts codified sex roles for men and women that already existed. Religion didn't create it, it was the writing down of social practices that did.

by Anonymousreply 3503/22/2013

[quote]No. Religion is the pretext[/quote]

Exactly, people who are antigay and religious use that as their excuse. There are plenty of people in Russia for instance who are just as homophobic and their culture is largely atheist.

by Anonymousreply 3603/22/2013

But it was a religious culture. Stalin was a seminarian. Lenin & Co. would not have put up with this kind of thing.

by Anonymousreply 3703/22/2013

[quote]There are plenty of people in Russia for instance who are just as homophobic and their culture is largely atheist.

Yeah that's sort of my point, you can see the same phenomena inside the gay bubble. It's discouraging because it means everyone just responds to power & their own inner weaknesses, not what's fair.

by Anonymousreply 3803/22/2013

Intolerance and bigotry are always there. It's stupid to say religion is the main enemy. Human emotions are. Religion can be used to justify these emotions. But this arguement is as ridiculous as the housewives who blame television or the movies for all the violence in the world. Insipid.

Chris Hitchens thought Muslims did not deserve to be treated as human beings and women were not mentally capable of being as funny as men. What's the excuse for his blatant bigotry?

by Anonymousreply 3903/22/2013

[quote] There are plenty of people in Russia for instance who are just as homophobic and their culture is largely atheist.

Actually, since the fall of communism, the influence of Russian Orthodox church has been very strong and they have been the biggest and most vocal promoter of homophobia in the Russian society.

by Anonymousreply 4003/22/2013

Yes R37 but where does religion come from, it's created by people and reflect people's bigotry. Things that are different, that disgust us, annoy us should not be tolerated. Again just look at the gays here & women. And how many people bother to speak up about it?

by Anonymousreply 4103/22/2013

[quote]There's a geek religion?

Yes, Star Trek.

by Anonymousreply 4203/22/2013
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