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Women who seem to love thier kids more than their husband.

I think my sister is like this. She seems to be more interested in being a mom than a wife. She's always posting pictures my nephews on facebook and everything is about them, but she rarely mentions her husband.

He's a nice enough guy, but I think she just said yes to the first man who asked her to get married so that she could have what she considers a typical family.

Is this why so many straight men get all surly and withdrawn as they get older?

by Anonymousreply 16008/07/2013

I think a lot of marriages are like this. It's no wonder why their husbands turn to other men for sex.

by Anonymousreply 303/18/2013

I disagree, r2. The kids shouldn't come first. The relationship between the parents should be the top priority, so that they have a strong foundation to build their family. It's like the oxygen mask in the airplane - take care of yourself first, then your children.

I remember asking my mom which of us 5 kids she loved best, and she said she loved my father the most, and then the rest of us equally. I was very young, but I got it. They've been happily married 56 years and raised happy, well adjusted individuals.

by Anonymousreply 403/18/2013

A wife's priority should be husband first, then children. Because this isn't usually the case, it's the reason for most marriage failures.

by Anonymousreply 503/18/2013

R2 = frau

This idea and practice that children are the center of the universe (relationship) is what is creating so many little monsters and sending the country into the toilet.

by Anonymousreply 603/18/2013

Why do men who love sports, their jobs, their cars or motorcycles, their buddies, or their mothers more than their wives or children?

by Anonymousreply 703/18/2013

I'm actually with r2.

When you choose to become a parent (and this goes for both parents) you take on a huge responsibility. A small child is completely dependent -- physically, emotionally, financially -- in a way that a partner should not be. Therefore as the person(s) with responsibility for that small child, you and your partner need to step up and make that child (or children) your priority for the time in which they need you most. It doesn't mean you have to sacrifice your whole life to the child, but it does mean that when push comes to shove, you are more responsible for your child than you are for your partner.

by Anonymousreply 803/18/2013

R4 And I disagree with you.

R6 Not a frau at all. I'm simply saying that if you choose to bring a life into this shitty world, you better put them before everyone/everything else.

by Anonymousreply 903/18/2013

You are the TEXTBOOK definition of a frau r2. Stop denying it.

by Anonymousreply 1003/18/2013

History proves you wrong, frau R2. Deny it if you like but you are in the wrong.

by Anonymousreply 1103/18/2013

Yes, having kids grow up witness to their parents acrimonious relationship is so much healthier. Especially when Dad eventually moves out and moves on because his role as a sperminator is done.

by Anonymousreply 1203/18/2013

The notion that you can't put each other first and be a good, responsible parent is silly. Saying you need to put your dependent child's needs before your spouse's would only make sense if your spouse were dependent in the way a child is, but that is not the case, unless your spouse is truly fucked up.

What kind of adult has needs that would trump responsible parenting?

One of the points of having two parents is that sharing the load allows you to maintain the level of intimacy an adult parntership needs to be happy.

by Anonymousreply 1403/18/2013

I don't have kids but I'm with r2. Kids need their parents, a husband or wife is not vulnerable, you can get another partner.

If I had a wife, I would want and expect her to put children first over dick.

by Anonymousreply 1503/18/2013

The funny thing is that people like R6/R10 and R4 are probably the same people who bitch about kids nowadays running wild and having no manners and wondering why their parents aren't raising them right.

by Anonymousreply 1703/18/2013

Mom's often love their kids more then their husbands. It doesn't mean they don't love their husband and a husband should not be neglected. Why would a wife want to neglect the man in her life? Lousy lover?

by Anonymousreply 1903/18/2013

[quote]bitch about kids nowadays running wild and having no manners

Those kids have mothers who hover and coddle and want to be their kids' best friend and don't want to be seen as a mean mommy.

by Anonymousreply 2003/18/2013

Cult of Motherhood. Breeders first, women second, human beings third.

by Anonymousreply 2203/18/2013

r17, damn straight I think kids running wild and out of control aren't being raised right. I also think they are being raised by mothers who see their kids as extensions of themselves, drag them everywhere rather than let them play and be kids, and spend their lives "making memories" instead of living, and documenting it all through photos, video and facebook. Just because a parent spends a lot of time with a kid doesn't mean they are raising them to be good members of society.

I think you are missing the point of parenting.

by Anonymousreply 2303/18/2013

The point of parenting is scrapbooking, R23.

by Anonymousreply 2403/18/2013

R4, you need to simmer down. There's obviously much more in this for you then arguing with r2.

by Anonymousreply 2503/18/2013

Until you walk in a mother's shoes, it's totally not fair to judge them based on something you witnessed at Starbucks.

by Anonymousreply 2603/18/2013

This may be a little off topic but my mother once told me that she didn't love my father and that she married him because she thought he would be a good provider. They have always had a contentious relationship and fought a lot when I was a kid and I always wished they would just divorce. My dad is kind of an asshole and I always took my mom's side because he was so difficult but once she told me that I couldn't help but wonder did he somehow sense that she didn't really love him? Did that fuel any of his horrible behavior?

by Anonymousreply 2703/18/2013

Of course a mother should love her kids. But if the kids see the husband as being secondary to their needs then they will never understand what it takes to have a healthy relationship. They will grow up knowing THEIR needs take precedence over every other thing in the world. But this assumes that the mother made a good choice of husband. If he's a dick and is dangerous to the children, that is another matter. Then of course the kids come first. But in a healthy family the parents should work together to guide their children, Love is not and either/or game. It can include everyone.

by Anonymousreply 2803/18/2013

We've had this discussion before and I posted an answer like r4. The greatest gift parents can give a child is birdseye view of a great relationship. The kids who come first in their parents marriage all turned into monsters and even shittier adults.

by Anonymousreply 2903/18/2013

In my opinion, mothers are supposed to love their kids more than their husbands. They can divorce the guy, the kids are apart of her. It's that simple. The husband should feel the same way about the kids as well.

by Anonymousreply 3003/18/2013

Parents should love their children more because they could get a divorce, but the children are genetically related?

Is there a logician in the house?

by Anonymousreply 3103/18/2013

All fraus.

THREAD CLOSED

by Anonymousreply 3203/18/2013

[quote]the kids are apart of her. It's that simple

OH, DEAR!

by Anonymousreply 3303/18/2013

No, R30. I know two couples with kids who "put their children first" and those kids are fucked for life. They can do no wrong. They figured out at about age 5 their position in the family dynamic and they play it to the hilt. They have become spoiled and out of control. It's painful to be around them and when I know their kids are going to be around in social situations, I decline the invitation.

Kids aren't supposed to run the show. They are second to the parent's relationship. Putting them first is poisonous to the child and the relationship. Kids need to feel secure and led by example.

by Anonymousreply 3403/18/2013

Yes OP, someday a straight man will wake up and want to marry you.

by Anonymousreply 3503/18/2013

There's an unwritten rule in hetty marriages, it's about the man and the woman before the kids come THEN the wife concentrates on the kids. That's one of the reasons that straight guys cheat on their wives. They are thinking about sex every minute and their dear wife is concerned with the kids. If you think straight guys have it good in their relationships ask all the sexless humps who are screwing around with the young chicks at work or the ones that go to glory holes for a quick release.

by Anonymousreply 3603/18/2013

All anybody really wants is a hetty marriange.

by Anonymousreply 3703/18/2013

Sherri Shepherd is the poster child for this. I forget she's actually married--it's downright disturbing.

by Anonymousreply 3803/18/2013

Why are you so obsessed with straight women and their lives? It's a little creepy.

by Anonymousreply 3903/18/2013

From the couples I've known before and after children it seems as though once children enter the picture the couple really finds out if they actually like each other. Courtship and romance, wedding-mania and baby fever mask a lot of unresolved or unacknowledged feelings between two people. But it all gets real when the kids come.

by Anonymousreply 4003/18/2013

It sounds like a lot of you would be horrible parents, the husband does not come first in a household. Yes, hopefully the couple will love each other but the priority is the children, the husband is just some random guy she met and decided to enter a relationship with. The kids didn't choose to be there. You can try and twist that into saying the kids will walk over the husband but that isn't the point, the point is that both the wife and husband should try to make their kids a priority. Try to find a woman who loves her husband more than her kids, there you'll find a shitty parent.

by Anonymousreply 4103/18/2013

Are a bunch of men really the right ones to question a straight woman's affection's towards her children versus her husband. I'm seeing a lot of the same arguments, I have a feeling most females would have a different view.

by Anonymousreply 4303/18/2013

You know, I know it's a DL tradition to comment on the supposed universal misery that is heterosexuality. And, I actually do see plenty of examples in real life. But, I don't see us doing any better, generally. Sure, there are well-adjusted, happy, healthy gays, as there are hets, but I also see all sorts of misery, unhappiness, compromised lives, bitterness.

by Anonymousreply 4403/18/2013

Since a lot of people on this site have something against women AND children, the responses aren't surprising. They think everyone should bow down to these often abusive straight men.

by Anonymousreply 4503/18/2013

r41, there is absolutely nothing more satisfying in life than a healthy relationship between two people. Someone you can experience true partnership with over time.

We don't all find this type of love, whether we are gay or straight. But the child who is able to experience the incredible bond of this partnership by growing up with loving parents might have a slightly greater possibility of replicating the experience in his/her own life.

In my house, my partner and I come first and my children come second. They know this and respect it. And to be honest, I think they go to sleep at night feeling comforted and secure. Hopefully they also look forward to building a similar happy life for themselves.

by Anonymousreply 4703/18/2013

Question: "Is this why so many straight men get all surly and withdrawn as they get older?"

Answer: "Yes"

by Anonymousreply 4903/18/2013

R47, that sounds okay..but the fact is that many people in relationships who put their husband first and their children second, also end up getting a divorce and the woman is so swept up in needing a partner that she finds someone who mistreats her child. So while you claim that your child feels secure, many would argue that telling a child that they are second to your spouse...is in fact not comforting at all.

by Anonymousreply 5003/18/2013

R48, you are most welcome here.

by Anonymousreply 5103/18/2013

WE, my husband and I, put our children first. We are responsible for them. We chose to have children as an extension of our love. At the moment our children need us to provide for them and bring them to sports etc. When we no longer have to do that, we will be able to spend more time focussing on ourselves. If you chose to have a family then I feel that they become your main priority and they shouldn't be left with babysitters when it is not necessary. The problem is of course striking a balance, as children need to learn that their parents have lives of their own and they cannot change every plan to suit their children.

by Anonymousreply 5203/18/2013

The same people who think children should come first in a family probably have terrible, ill behaved dogs who are "almost housebroken" or "just playbiting" and "not really that great with other dogs".

by Anonymousreply 5303/18/2013

R53 I'll go one further. I think people who think children come first are the ones responsible for hellions screaming and running wild in coffee shops, bars and planes with parents who blithely ignore them and expect others to put up with the little demons while they go on about their business.

I was pleasantly surprised the other day when a tyke ran out in front of me and the mother stopped and scolded him and made him apologize and then apologized to me herself.

It gave me some hope that not all parents now are abdicating responsibility.

by Anonymousreply 5503/18/2013

R56 it was a crowded area and, yes, the kid almost tripped me up. I'm an adult and not necessarily looking out for little things running blindly around my feet.

by Anonymousreply 5703/18/2013

60% of marriages end in divorce.

99% of mother/child relationships are for life.

You do the math.

by Anonymousreply 5903/18/2013

I seriously think the road to Frauville is paved with discarded husbands who play second fiddle to the intense joy the Frauen experience of being a "Mom". Most of my women friends who are cool, still like to hang out, support their kid but not overwhelmingly so, really enjoy their husbands, these are the woman that I enjoy in my life.

by Anonymousreply 6003/18/2013

[quote]It's no wonder why their husbands turn to other men for sex.

Most of them will turn to other women first.

by Anonymousreply 6103/18/2013

Won't somebody please think of the CHILDREN??!!

by Anonymousreply 6203/18/2013

It sounds like a lot of you don't like the fact that mothers usually have a stronger bond for their child than their spouse. Why does it bother you? There are also a lot of strict mothers who teach their kids manners who love their kids, why does a husband need to be catered to in order for a child to grow up well rounded? What an antiquated set of ideas.

by Anonymousreply 6303/18/2013

Honestly, I think the worst type for this is the ones who even in high school do nothing but dream of marrying and having kids. No career, travel or anything except dream of marrying and settling down in suburbia and living the "American dream". Hubby off to work and they stay home with the kiddies.

by Anonymousreply 6403/18/2013

The couple has a separate relationship outside the kiddies. My mother always told me the love is different thus she had both my dad and us as a priority, but a priority below herself. One reason my mom was great was that she cared for herself and let it be known that she wouldnt take shit from her husband nor children. Her needs were as important and in some circumstances more important than her husband or children.

by Anonymousreply 6503/18/2013

R63 no one is saying that. My parents had an equal relationship. Mom did not "cater" to Dad and he was all for her having a life outside the house. She took art classes, modeled and worked part-time when she felt like it and he helped out with child rearing and housework. He didn't just sit around on his ass bellowing orders for a sammich and beer.

You don't have to "cater" to a spouse to also have a romantic and sexual relationship. That should be something both parents want to do in a healthy relationship.

by Anonymousreply 6603/18/2013

There's a balance to it. No, I don't have any kids, but I can conclude plenty from having been a kid with weird parents and step-parents, who would often spend weekends at my friends' houses and observe their families.

The parents who obviously like each other and have a lasting friendship with their romance are awesome. And they tend to be cool about raising their kids, meaning letting them make mistakes.

So in the modern version of this society, yes--the unit of husband/wife should be really be worked at and preserved, because husband/wife is the operative unit we have chosen. BUT! This stuff has to be committed to and discussed in the open before the couple even thinks about having children.

Why? Because children are the fucking responsibility of those able-bodied persons (both of them) who bring them into the world or intend to raise them in the world. Period. And the husbands who impregnate their wives just to shut them up about having babies are just as bad as the women who want babies to appear "normal."

by Anonymousreply 6703/18/2013

Maybe they're not interested in catering to some oafish straight guy? Can you blame them?

by Anonymousreply 6803/18/2013

R63 not to be nosy but are you a gay man, single mother or what? You seem awfully defensive. It's okay to be a single mom especially if you left an abusive asshole and took the kids with you. No one thinks kids would be better off in those circumstances.

I don't think that's what this conversation is about.

by Anonymousreply 6903/18/2013

R48 and I grew up in the same way. For the rest of you who say kids are more loved/important than spouses...

Your kid has his 20th soccer game of the season but your friends are having a fabulous cocktail party that you've always enjoyed in the past. Do you skip it?

If on a Saturday morning, you're in bed fucking and your lo knocks on the door b/c he can't find the remote, do you stop what you're doing and find it for him?

One of your children gets strep throat 3 days before your vacation ends, do you rush home early?

Your couch shopping for the family room, the kids LOVE the red couch, it's not your favorite but you could live with it, do you pick that one?

It's Sunday at 8pm, do the kids get to run the remote control?

The answers to all of these questions should be no.

The answer to this one "Do you love Mommy/Daddy more than me?" should be YES!!!

by Anonymousreply 7003/18/2013

[quote]The relationship between the parents should be the top priority, so that they have a strong foundation to build their family. It's like the oxygen mask in the airplane - take care of yourself first, then your children.

This is completely the Fundy point of view. Nothing, but nothing, trumps the man and woman union.

The thing is, the man never stops taking when the woman gives. Kids eventually want to cut the apron strings, but a dependent, attention whore of a husband will not. Well, unless he finds a younger, firmer version of you...

by Anonymousreply 7103/18/2013

I agree R71, I've noticed it's usually white men who like that dynamic because they're in control and the priority. If you ask most African American women who comes first her husband or her children I have a feeling she'd tell the man to fuck right off if he tried to control the dynamic like that. In fact most minority women don't have that mind frame.

by Anonymousreply 7203/18/2013

R71 you have a very warped view of relationships.

[quote]If on a Saturday morning, you're in bed fucking and your lo knocks on the door b/c he can't find the remote, do you stop what you're doing and find it for him?

That's funny because I remember once when I was young I decided to test the boundaries and, man, were my parents pissed that I interrupted their "alone" time. It was "goddamnit away from that door". I never did it again and I am not emotionally traumatized.

by Anonymousreply 7303/18/2013

Let me also add that fundie relationships are weird and patriarchal and many of them are molesting the kids.

I was talking about normal, non-fundie relationships.

by Anonymousreply 7403/18/2013

most women I see now prefer their kids to the spouses. such is live

by Anonymousreply 7503/18/2013

My mother always told us that she and my mother were individual people first, then they were a couple, and then they were parents. Those were their priorities, we always respected them and we were sure of our place in their lives. When my father died young, my mother went back to being an individual.

by Anonymousreply 7603/18/2013

Uh, that should be "she and my father" in the first sentence. My parents weren't quite that liberated.

by Anonymousreply 7703/18/2013

Well hopefully most women and men can strike a BALANCE. Children who are always catered to might become egotistical. And in the situation of a woman that focuses on her husband, the child will be neglected.

Some women might prefer their children because there is a biological bond that a husband and wife will NEVER have. Given this board is mostly men, I can understand how many don't understand this. None of you will have a child come out of your genitalia and occupy your body for 9 months.

I do agree with the people that noted that it is important that the children see their parents happy. Children need to see happy parents as a template for their own romantic/sexual relationships- be they gay or straight.

by Anonymousreply 7803/18/2013

Looking back at the original post, I see some sexism in it. Not surprising given this is on DL.

Why is it that the wife has to initiate the love and attention?? Maybe women would be less obsessed with their children, if fathers pitched in in the child-rearing. If heterosexual relationships were more equal, maybe women wouldn't feel the need to overcompensate when it comes to spending time with the children??

If more fathers took on chauffeuring the kids to the soccer and softball practices, maybe it would give time for mom to dedicate more time, sex, and romance on her husband?

by Anonymousreply 7903/18/2013

I love my husband more than Mamie.

by Anonymousreply 8003/18/2013

Paying too much attention to the kids to the detriment of the husband and shortchanging the husband can easily lead to jealousy and resentment by the husband - and rightfully so.

I always wonder how husbands control jealousy when mothers devote almost all of their attention the baby and/or kids and give the husband very little affection and interest.

by Anonymousreply 8103/18/2013

A lot of you are sexist and disrespectful to children. You really don't like kids, and you don't like the attention they get from they parents. It's not going to change.

by Anonymousreply 8203/18/2013

How does sexism equate to not liking children? I like kids, but I like kids who are well-behaved and polite. Kind of like I raised mine. They were not allowed to run wild like kids I see today. I'm not talking about the attention they get from parents. I'm talking about the problems they bring in public and the parents ignoring the problems.

R82 from your previous posts you seem to have a problems in relationships.

by Anonymousreply 8303/18/2013

I got lots of attention from my parents, R82, and I mean it in a good way. They were always there when I needed them, and even when I didn't. They also had, and have, a close happy relationship they nurtured as a couple, independent of having children. They are a joy to one another in their old age, a rare and wonderful thing. It's hard to believe that would exist if my mother had married a sperm donor/meal ticket and my father a housekeeper/brood mare.

As to women and children, I like them both just fine, but not as a class. There are good and bad people in both groups.

You're kind of a weirdo, aren't you?

by Anonymousreply 8403/18/2013

Is there a reason why DL seems to hate children?? I sort of understand the resentment of women(I don't condone it however)-- but what is the reason for the kid hate?? Did everyone have a horrible childhood??

by Anonymousreply 8503/18/2013

Very often husbands act like children themselves.

by Anonymousreply 8603/18/2013

[quote]If you ask most African American women who comes first her husband or her children I have a feeling she'd tell the man to fuck right off if he tried to control the dynamic like that. In fact most minority women don't have that mind frame.

nor do they have husbands

by Anonymousreply 8703/18/2013

Yes Black women can take of themselves they don't cling to men like white women do.

by Anonymousreply 8803/18/2013

sweetie. i have a confession.

by Anonymousreply 8903/18/2013

"Question: "Is this why so many straight men get all surly and withdrawn as they get older?"

No, most men are moody bitches with emotional issues.

by Anonymousreply 9003/18/2013

Just more man hate R90. No surprise there.

by Anonymousreply 9103/18/2013

[quote]Yes Black women can take of themselves they don't cling to men like white women do.

plus it is hard to cling when the baby daddy is doing 25 to life.

by Anonymousreply 9203/18/2013

Maybe men aren't aware of this but many women because of hormones & attachment actually feel like they've fallen in love with their child. And that's because all the symptoms you normally feel when you fall in love that flushed face, the can't wait to see them, the rush --it's all there when you have a child. It's a biological reaction (it probably serves an evolutionary purpose of making sure the child is fed & taken care of ) and won't last forever. Definitely it goes away by the time the kid is a teenager.

So when some men feel their wife is choosing the baby over them or that they have a rival, there's an element of truth to that. Again, in normal couples this feeling goes away or the husband starts feeling the same way about the child. But it takes work to refocus back to the relationship.

There was a study of gay couples with kids that came out recently. They found that they had a lot less sex since they've had the kids. They found this across the board whether they were monogamous or in an open relationship---not much sex was happening. Kids just plain tire you out.

by Anonymousreply 9303/18/2013

It's generally more difficult for fathers to bond with newborns, but some persist through that time. I've been surprised at how many men I've seen become truly great fathers, all of them men who were determined not to be like their own dads.

by Anonymousreply 9403/18/2013

Of coarse there are great fathers out there. You just never hear about it. The media is biased when it comes to men.

by Anonymousreply 9503/18/2013

When the parents put their relationship first and put the children second, that does not equate to child neglect, child abuse, or the children feeling unloved, nor does it equate to hatred of children.

by Anonymousreply 9603/19/2013

Don't we have any evolutionary biologists on this board that have something enlightening to say?

by Anonymousreply 9703/19/2013

I slept with my babies and drove my husband away.

by Anonymousreply 9803/19/2013

Show me a woman who loves her husband more than her kids, and I'll show you a woman who would throw her kid out if "hubby" got handsy with her.

by Anonymousreply 9903/19/2013

You shouldn't love your spouse OR your child more or less than the other in an ideal two parent household! You should love them both equally, just in two different ways.

I don't even have kids but I feel like this isn't that hard to grasp. I love my mom in a different way than I love my partner, for instance (as one would hope would be the fucking case), but that doesn't mean I love one of them "more." Why wouldn't it be the same with parents and children?

by Anonymousreply 10003/19/2013

r100 Best post in this thread.

by Anonymousreply 10103/19/2013

"The kids shouldn't come first. The relationship between the parents should be the top priority, so that they have a strong foundation to build their family."

This bullshit theory was obviously thought up by some male psychologist whose wife was ignoring him. It goes against EVERYTHING in nature. If the house was on fire, she'd save the kids and let her husband burn. In fact, she'd send him in to die to save the children.

by Anonymousreply 10203/19/2013

To anyone who actually HAS kids, if your spouse or partner were drowning and your child was too, but you could only save one which one would you save?

by Anonymousreply 10303/19/2013

For any parent in their right mind, it will ALWAYS be the child, R103.

R100, I call bullshit. Same question. If your mother and your partner were both burning or drowning and you could only save one, which would it be? An answer just flashed in your mind even if you won't admit it. That's the one you love the most.

by Anonymousreply 10403/19/2013

R104, it's not about who you love the most. I would choose to save my child over my mom because I know that's what she would want. She's lived more of her life and knows we're put on earth to look after our children.

by Anonymousreply 10503/19/2013

Seriously, what the fuck does it matter WHAT women do? They will just be endlessly criticized no matter what. Put a cock in it and STFU.

by Anonymousreply 10603/19/2013

I am beginning to think a lot of you are repressed bisexuals. Why else would this board be obsessed with women??

by Anonymousreply 10703/19/2013

That's a loaded question, R104. You described an extreme situation that will never happen to almost everyone and has nothing to do with our ability to distribute love equally on a day to day basis.

It isn't like love is some finite resource that most (non-sociopathic) people only have a limited amount of anyway. It's something that changes and grows and is always based on certain context, but it is never finite.

And to answer your question anyway - If two people I loved were both drowning or in a burning building at the same time, I'd probably go for the person who appeared easier to save first in the hopes that they could help out with the other person. I wouldn't give up on either of them though. And I definitely wouldn't automatically think "Well, I can only save one." My larger focus would be on trying to save both of them.

Shit, I remember being about four years old and asking my dad if he loved me or my mom more. He answered that he loved both of us equally, just in two different ways. I wasn't old enough to completely understand was he was saying, but I got the basic gist of it and in retrospect think it was the perfect answer. I don't think that telling a young child that you love either them or your spouse more is really appropriate. If you tell the kid you love them more, then you're essentially putting them on a pedestal that gives the kid a sense of entitlement that they shouldn't have. If you say you love your spouse more, then you risk hurting the kid unnecessarily and making them feeling insignificant, even if that wasn't your intention. Either way, you're creating a level of divisiveness that doesn't need to exist among healthy, well adjusted families.

by Anonymousreply 10903/19/2013

Whatever, R107. I'm a gay man but I don't see a bunch of women starting threads in which they try endlessly to dissect us all over this board. Lately it's a been bunch of gay men starting constant threads about straight women and all their speculations about every detail of their lives. Who's "obsessed" again?

Sorry, I know it's not everyone here, but I have to call things like I see them. (Although I can admit that I actually found this one interesting since it's not so much about straight women as it is about the dynamics in two parent households with children, which really applies to families that are run by both gay and straight couples alike.)

by Anonymousreply 11003/19/2013

You guys are all pretty friggin wrong. There are different types of love. The romantic love between a man and a woman is quite different than the protective love from parent to child. Both are necessary for a healthy family. You can't even compare those two types of love let along rank them. How silly for you all to even try. A woman and man should work on their romantic connection throughout their marriage and also protect and love their children. It's not a zero sum game, people!!

by Anonymousreply 11103/19/2013

correction: "let alone rank them"

by Anonymousreply 11203/19/2013

R109, it's a common psychological/philosophical question. Of course, the chances of it happening in real life are almost non-existent but that's not the point of the exercise.

I stand by the claim that the first thought that popped into your head was the one you love more. It's the automatic response that's telling, not the thought out one with heroic "I'll save them all!" tendencies mixed in.

If we changed the scenario a bit and made it your biological child versus some random child drowning and you can only save one, the answer becomes very clear, doesn't it? You save your child, the one you obviously love more. It plays out the same through all scenarios no matter how much your conscience hates to admit it.

by Anonymousreply 11303/20/2013

My boss is like this. It's just one reason I think she's a closeted lesbian. Then again, I don't think her husband minds. People say he seems very gay to them.

by Anonymousreply 11403/20/2013

[quote]Show me a woman who loves her husband more than her kids, and I'll show you a woman who would throw her kid out if "hubby" got handsy with her.

I have seen women who put their boyfriends before their children and it is sad. I don't know if the kids are getting touched, but what scares me is that I think some of these women would look the other way in order to hang onto their man.

by Anonymousreply 11503/20/2013

It's a Freudian thing, not at all hard to understand. At a certain point, women start pulling away from their daughters, viewing them as sexual rivals for their husband's attention. This is why Patsy Ramsey killed her daughter. When she discovered her husband was having sex with JonBenet, she blamed the little slut stealing her man, not the molester himself.

On the other hand, at around age 3, boys start disengaging themselves from mommy, causing women to become increasingly seductive toward their sons. This works well until the boys start showing sexual interest in girls (interest in other boys is repressed by most mothers as innocent boy play).

The thought of losing their idealized partner sends most women into an extremely unstable state. The smartest women sublimate their incestuous urges into affairs with young men or teens. Most, however, turn into raging cunts instead of turning back to their neglected husbands, who--by this point--are usually gone, literally or emotionally.

by Anonymousreply 11603/20/2013

R113, your question has no relevance at all to a family situation. It's not an either/or proposition. A parent raising children with a partner shouldn't favour either to the extent of neglecting the other. There's nothing wrong with loving your children but when you disengage from your partner because you now have children then something is going wrong. Conversely, favouring your partner to the extent of neglecting your children is poor parenting, period. Why does everything on this board have to be a reductive, polarising shitfight?

by Anonymousreply 11703/20/2013

r34 has it right.

by Anonymousreply 11803/20/2013

Bingo, R116.

by Anonymousreply 11903/20/2013

It's not the one you love more, it's the one you want/need to protect more.

In the presence of two wounded, if one is talking and the other isn't, you should always go to the one who isn't because he/she might be in greater need of help/close to dying.

It's a question of emergency.

by Anonymousreply 12003/20/2013

My mother is still like this OP. My father was being a jerk not too long ago, and my mother said to him, with me in ear shot:

"Don't make me choose between my kid and you, you won't like what the choice will be"

I'm in my thirties.

by Anonymousreply 12103/20/2013

[quote]I call bullshit. Same question. If your mother and your partner were both burning or drowning and you could only save one, which would it be? An answer just flashed in your mind even if you won't admit it. That's the one you love the most.

R100 is right. You love your parent, child, and partner in different ways. It doesn't mean that you love one more than the other necessarily.

Who you feel more responsible for is different. If you bring a child into the world, you should do your best for them - otherwise you shouldn't have brought them into the world in the first place. You shouldn't consider their needs to be less than your partner's. Your partner can leave. Your child can't. Your partner can survive without you. Your child can't. Simple as that.

If your partner is going to mean more to you than a future child, don't have children. You aren't cut out for it, and there is really no need for you to be cut out for it. The world is already populated enough. We don't need any more fucked up people who are fucked up due to self-centred arsehole parents.

by Anonymousreply 12203/20/2013

[quote]Maybe men aren't aware of this but many women because of hormones & attachment actually feel like they've fallen in love with their child. And that's because all the symptoms you normally feel when you fall in love that flushed face, the can't wait to see them, the rush --it's all there when you have a child. It's a biological reaction (it probably serves an evolutionary purpose of making sure the child is fed & taken care of ) and won't last forever. Definitely it goes away by the time the kid is a teenager.

I often hear men say that they fell in love with their children. This is not just a mother thing. It is probably partly biological, just as a large part of "falling in love" is biological, and just like "falling in love" it wears off and hopefully is replaced but a more substantive love.

by Anonymousreply 12303/20/2013

[quote]Your partner can survive without you. Your child can't. Simple as that.

What world are you living in, dear? Millions of children survive without their parents daily and have throughout the course of history.

by Anonymousreply 12403/20/2013

[quote]more interested in being a mom than a wife

Isn't being a mother to a man's children part of being a wife? In an evolutionary sense, it's more important for the woman to devote herself to raising the child than it is for her to tend to the husband. He--and she--are operating under the imperative of preserving genetic material into the future.

by Anonymousreply 12503/20/2013

Maybe R18 but not all woman are very maternal and, remember, men are evolutionarily evolved to knock one woman up and then leave to go knock another one up.

A lot of women might not go for that.

by Anonymousreply 12603/20/2013

I fucking love you, R92.

by Anonymousreply 12703/21/2013

R116 is Norman Bates.

by Anonymousreply 12803/21/2013

The truth is, love for a spouse or partner can die. Love for your child can not, assuming the parent is mentally sound.

by Anonymousreply 12903/21/2013

[quote]Isn't being a mother to a man's children part of being a wife?

No. What about people who cannot have kids or don't kids? Does that invalidate their relationship? Many people aren't married but have kids.

Marriage does not equal children these days.

by Anonymousreply 13003/21/2013

R116 I'm a female and very close to my mother.

I haven't ever displayed seductiveness towards my son. You sound disturbed.

by Anonymousreply 13103/21/2013

The point is that all people are looking to be nurtured in some way, but different types of people manifest it differently. Poor communication ensues. It's worse in some societal systems than others.

It's also totally explainable without using the theories of Freud, Jung, or the like.

But OP isn't very bright, and those who just accept his suggested concept as universal fact (whilst resenting it) are morons.

by Anonymousreply 13203/21/2013

At first I thought R116's reply was too general and too reliant on psychoanalytic theory.

But after reading it again, I tend to agree based on my own observations.

I've seen these exact dynamics acted out, time and again, in maternal relationships.

Obviously, there are exceptions. Think of wives who've suffered at the hands of clinging, jealous mothers-in-law, only to repeat the same patterns of behavior they despised with their own children.

by Anonymousreply 13303/21/2013

I believe nature intended men to protect their children and partners (giving life to and nurturing said children) at any cost and women to protect their children at any cost. A woman is not supposed to die protecting her man, that's his job, but almost any woman would do that for her kids if needed. So it may seem it's about loving one or the other more/giving one or the other precedence, but I think it really boils down to basic survival instinct stuff.

by Anonymousreply 13403/21/2013

Most men, for whatever reason, want to have children, but also want women to do the majority of the childcare. So it's only natural that this might be the result.

Also, I think r116 might be on the right track. It explains why mothers commonly seem to worship their sons while treating their daughters like crap.

by Anonymousreply 13607/02/2013

Most men do not want children. I don't know where you get that from. In most couples I've seen the men go along with having kids to keep their wife around. It's women who usually push for kids. The only guys who really want kids are traditionalists or guys with so much money it doesn't matter.

by Anonymousreply 13707/02/2013

You are very wrong, r137. In every poll I've ever seen about the topic, including one that came out just this past Father's Day, the vast majority of men say they want children. In fact, in this latest poll, more men (8 of 10) than women (7 of 10) said they always knew they wanted children. They just don't want to be responsible for the actual childcare.

by Anonymousreply 13807/02/2013

Sorry, R137 you're wrong.

by Anonymousreply 13907/02/2013

Husbands, OP; they do not share a single husband.

by Anonymousreply 14007/02/2013

But it's a different type of love entirely! It's not a question of more or less. It's different.

I'm a hag, not a frau (do people still say hag?) and also a mother and wife. I would say I probably love MY FAMILY more than I love any individual within it. But even that seems like a pointless distinction. MY FAMILY is the most important thing to me - the four people in it are tied together by a lifetime love.

I love my kids to distraction but I'm pretty sure I can do that without turning entitled little monsters out into the world. I still fancy my husband. He still fancies me. But we're both agreed: if it were us or them to be saved, we'd save them. In so many ways, they ARE us.

by Anonymousreply 14107/02/2013

Oh please. Haven't you bitches ever heard of boarding school?

It worked wonders for my career!

by Anonymousreply 14207/02/2013

[quote] If your mother and your partner were both burning or drowning and you could only save one, which would it be? An answer just flashed in your mind even if you won't admit it. That's the one you love the most

No. You may love someone more - or "the most" - but understand and feel a responsibility toward someone else more - like your children.

I understand where you're going with the sentiment but it really doesn't work.

by Anonymousreply 14307/02/2013

you've all got it backwards. women focus on their kids because the men in their lives are huge disappointments.

by Anonymousreply 14407/02/2013

In reality many women will marry almost anyone so they can be "married" and have all they think comes with that status including having children. So the fact that women care more about their children would hardly be surprising.

I can remember commenting more than once upon someone's marriage - why is she marrying him, she doesn't even seem to like him?

by Anonymousreply 14507/02/2013

[quote]In reality many women will marry almost anyone so they can be "married" and have all they think comes with that status including having children.

Wrong - in reality many women AND MEN will marry almost anyone to have that hetero-normative lifestyle. It isn't just women.

by Anonymousreply 14607/02/2013

R146, I stand corrected.

But I was answering the OP's question.

by Anonymousreply 14707/02/2013

People change too. That man or woman who was on their best behavior, treating you like royally is not doing that anymore, and seems to now be a dick/cunt? Well, it could be one of two things: 1) now that the deal is closed, the person can be their true selves. 2) the person is so sick of YOUR shit, they let their dick/cunt flag fly.

I'm betting its the second case more often than the first.

by Anonymousreply 14807/02/2013

[quote]It's a Freudian thing, not at all hard to understand. At a certain point, women start pulling away from their daughters, viewing them as sexual rivals for their husband's attention.

This kind of Freudian theory got debunked decades ago.

[quote]On the other hand, at around age 3, boys start disengaging themselves from mommy, causing women to become increasingly seductive toward their sons. This works well until the boys start showing sexual interest in girls (interest in other boys is repressed by most mothers as innocent boy play).

Total crap. (Of course some mothers are paedophiles ... like 00.001% of mothers!)

You were joking - and I fell for it.

by Anonymousreply 14907/02/2013

Women get married for love (mostly) men get ready when they reach the age that they feel like getting married and they'll marry the closest person available.

by Anonymousreply 15007/02/2013

Lots of generalisations here, so I'll add another.

After a certain age (30/35?) hetero men don't cope well on their own (emotionally but also in terms of feeding themselves, laundry, etc.), so they often marry/re-marry just to have someone to look after them. Women are more resilient.

by Anonymousreply 15107/02/2013

Yes, the men that R151 describes do exist. After the kid comes along, the wife refers to them as the 2nd/3rd/4th/extra "child".

Marriage and kids must be the 7th circle of hell.

by Anonymousreply 15207/02/2013

[quote] Yes, the men that [R151] describes do exist. After the kid comes along, the wife refers to them as the 2nd/3rd/4th/extra "child".

Or they treat the men that way because they aren't in lockstep with her. That's a typical put down of men by their wives. It's insulting and meant as a means to humiliate and control.

by Anonymousreply 15307/02/2013

r151 is correct. Straight men are notoriously needy this way. I've heard straight men say they want a wife just because they want someone to clean up after them and cook for them. Hell, I've even heard gay men say the same thing (hopefully jokingly). Apparently, for many men, "wife" is synonymous with "maid."

by Anonymousreply 15407/02/2013

You're supposed to love your kids more than your husband.

The end.

by Anonymousreply 15507/02/2013

You ARE supposed to love your kids more than your partner.

But I think there are some women, especially today, who never really experience truly vulnerable love until they have children.

And those seem to be the women who don't give a fuck about their (presumably good, decent) husbands/partners after the kids.

I think I've known a few of these women. I think some of them were emotionally damaged and/or lesbians.

by Anonymousreply 15607/03/2013

R149 Granted that much of psychoanalytic theory is conjecture.

However, both clinical and forensic samples of women prove what you attempt to dismiss.

(As the term forensic is often understood to refer to autopsies, I should explain: In psychiatry, clinical samples are taken from those who choose to seek help. Forensic samples are derived from those who have run afoul of the law. Forensic, in this case, simply means the area where medical and legal concerns intersect.)

by Anonymousreply 15707/03/2013

Isn't it interesting that you never see "Men who seem to love their kids more than their wives." as a discussion topic anywhere? The answer, of course, is simple...

Men ALWAYS love themselves the most.

Men's priorities = themselves, then wife, then kids

Women's priorities = kids, husband, themselves

And you people think it's the women who are fucked up? Yeah, right.

by Anonymousreply 15807/03/2013

I wish I was a Lesbian.

by Anonymousreply 15907/03/2013

God, some of you are really twisting this. It's not that women shouldn't love their children.

It's that they often completely shut their husbands out. IMO, this is sufficient justification for cheating.

by Anonymousreply 16008/07/2013
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