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I thought the EU and EURO were fixed?

Today, lots of people woke up in shock and horror to what happened in Cyprus: a forced capital reallocation mandated by political elites under the guise of an "equity investment" in insolvent banks, which is really code for a "coercive, mandatory wealth tax." If less concerned about political correctness, one could say that what just happened was daylight robbery from savers to banks and the status quo. These same people may be even more shocked to learn that today's Cypriot "resolution" is merely the first of many such coercive interventions into personal wealth, first in Europe, and then everywhere else.

Bank Runs, a scared populace- didn't they fix this?

This will be another disaster for the euro- it needs to die.

------

For the benefit of those people, we wish to point them to our article from September 2011, "The "Muddle Through" Has Failed: BCG Says "There May Be Only Painful Ways Out Of The Crisis", which predicted and explained all of this and much more. What else did the September BCG study conclude? Simply that such mandatory, coercive wealth tax is merely the beginning for a world in which there was some $21 trillion in excess debt as of 2009, a number which has since ballooned to over $30 trillion. And with inflation woefully late in appearing and "inflating away" said debt overhang, Europe first is finally moving to Plan B, and is using Cyrprus as its Guniea Pig.

by Anonymousreply 6706/23/2015

Cyprus turned itself into a haven for off-shore deposits from drug dealers, Russian gangsters, and U.S. tax dodgers. When assets of that group of criminals gets threatened, the plan is to take the savings of workers? How does that work?

The EU guarantees deposits. However, these are banks getting hurt when the rich want their money back. The banks call the shots, law be damned. They are too big to fail. There and here.

To change EU policy, Germany calls the shots -- their Bundestag gets a veto on policy. The rest of Europe? There is sovereignty and then there is sovereignty. German and the banks want austerity Europe gets the failed policy of austerity.

Anybody remember the Democratic party hack that came on here a year ago and promised us prosecutions of bankers -- things we didn't know about were getting done, cases being built? Where are the indictments?

The only difference between Cyprus/Greece, and here, our austerity, for the rest of us but not for the rich, gets slipped in gradually. So far that is.

A pension fund going bust here, cuts in education there, attacks on public workers, unions, a sinking standard of living for all but the one percent, and a race to the bottom for wages in state after state.

Protect profits is the byword.

This crisis isn't going away. When the banks have gotten all they can out of Europe, and profits still don't return, they will turn their eyes on us. Then we will get austerity with a vengeance.

If we object, we have seen how our government will deal with that -- the truncheon, pepper spray, rubber bullets and jail for us, bonuses for them.

by Anonymousreply 403/28/2013

R4: 100% correct on how the govt would treat us protestors. Occupy was just a taste of it. I never thought I would be dragged down the street by the nypd because I was legally protesting. Of course, most Americans will listen to their cable news stations, tell us what we want to hear, on instructions on how to act. It allows most Americans to be complacent birches.

This is terrifying and expect it to roll into other countries:

by Anonymousreply 503/28/2013

R3. States don't run deficits?

by Anonymousreply 603/28/2013

Ha ha ha!

by Anonymousreply 703/28/2013

R6:

They cannot run deficits. It is in every state constitution of which I am aware. They have to balance their books at the end of each fiscal year.

What that really means is that when they want to do something that requires borrowing, they have to issue bonds at market rates. They have to include in their budgets amounts to pay investors when the bonds are redeemed.

There is a lot of fancy footwork in state budgets to get everything to come out right.

They cannot print money to pay for those projects and/or to redeem the bonds if the economy tanks like the feds can do.

Feel free to correct me if I got that wrong.

by Anonymousreply 803/28/2013

They were fixed in the same way my beagle was fixed.

by Anonymousreply 903/28/2013

[bold]ABOLISH THE FED!! BUY GOLD!! HYPERINFLATION WILL KILL US ALL!!![/bold]

Thought I'd get the Libertarian talking points out of the way.

by Anonymousreply 1003/28/2013

LOL OP, I also bet you believe in the administration's "Recovery Summer" a few years ago.

Did you fall for the "unemployment will peak at 8% if we pass the stimulus" pitch?

How about the "unemployment is looking better" when a significant percentage of the "improvement" is simply individuals giving up and leaving the work force?

by Anonymousreply 1103/28/2013

oh you funny Americans, taking pride in your errors once again.

OP, the EU and the Euro are not one in the same. One is union of nations that includes nations not in the Eurozone. Many of the Member States are quite stable, more than the US.

[R3] being in the Eurozone indeed does require a balanced budget relative to GDP to be part of the Euro.

And your even more ridiculous goof, R3, adding to the OPs, is that the EU doesn't govern Member States national economies. You write as if it could but simply doesn't.

Don't you have the US economy to worry about?

by Anonymousreply 1203/28/2013

They will cause a global economical apocalypse! What's happening in Cyprus is outrageous. Governments and elites are using their power to simply steal and rob the masses of their savings. I have to wonder how many laws they are braking in the process (laws of ownership and contracts).

The masses should go out and fight in the millions and not agree to this.

by Anonymousreply 1303/28/2013

braking=breaking

by Anonymousreply 1403/28/2013

Oh, joy. The Idiot Libertarian Troll(TM) is bumping all his old threads up. Time for the weekend Libertarian Circle Jerk!

by Anonymousreply 1603/30/2013

OP, Cyprus only has 3 banks and has an economy smaller than Vermont. However, it has hundreds of billions of Euros deposited in those banks, mostly from Russian oligarchs hiding their money.

The banks made a bad investment by buying Greek bonds which are now worth nothing. The banks are essentially broke.

by Anonymousreply 1703/30/2013

R3, you are incorrect. The EU REQUIRES a balanced budget within 2% of GDP. The problem is that the Greek government committed fraud and lied about their government books to be admitted to the EU.

by Anonymousreply 1803/30/2013

R18

Don't confuse them with facts.

They will defend the euro until it dies.

Smart people are already making money on the next country that will be "Cyprussinated".

(Hint, it starts with SLOV...)

by Anonymousreply 1903/30/2013

Europe's ongoing economic crisis and lasting currency woes are beginning to rapidly erode faith among Europeans in the EU project. That is the result of a new survey undertaken by the renowned Pew Research Center in Washington D.C. and released on Monday evening.

The institute polled 8,000 people in eight European Union member states in March and arrived at some disturbing results. In just one year, the share of Europeans who view the European Union project favorably plummeted from 60 percent in 2012 to just 45 percent this year. Furthermore, only in Germany does a majority continue to support granting more power to Brussels in an effort to combat the ongoing crisis.

"The European Union is the new sick man of Europe," read the survey's opening lines. "The effort over the past half century to create a more united Europe is now the principal casualty of the euro crisis. The European project now stands in disrepute across much of Europe."

Of particular concern is the situation in France, where fully 91 percent of those surveyed believes that the country's economy is in bad shape, 10 percent more than in 2012. Furthermore, 67 percent believe that President François Hollande is "doing a lousy job handling the challenges posed by the economic crisis" -- a rating that is 24 percentage points worse than received by his predecessor Nicolas Sarkozy. Seventy-seven percent of French respondents believe that European integration has made the country's economic situation worse.

Furthermore, people across the EU have nothing but bad things to say about their political leaders. In Italy, where Prime Minister Mario Monti was recently voted out off office, only 25 percent are satisfied with their government's management of the crisis, fully 23 percentage points lower than last year. Ninety-six percent are dissatisfied with the country's direction, comparable to the 97 percent and 94 percent measured in Greece and Spain respectively.

In addition, German Chancellor Angela Merkel, broadly respected across Europe last year for her handling of the euro crisis, is losing support. Even as majorities in five of the eight countries survey still believe she is doing a good job, support plunged by 24 points in Spain, 19 in Italy and six points at home in Germany over the last 12 months.

by Anonymousreply 2005/18/2013

Has anyone looked at the pickle Japan is in?

The JGB (JapGovBond) has tripled in the last week, and if it goes higher it will cripple the ability of the gov to pay the interest.

Japan, China, the EU AND the US are all in dire straits, and when (not if) interest rates on gov debt starts to rise, the picture will NOT be pretty.

by Anonymousreply 2105/30/2013

D

by Anonymousreply 2208/24/2013

Looks like Greece needs ANOTHER bailout!

----

Concurrently it is becoming increasingly clear that Greece will require even more aid, lest it default again:

[quote]“European officials are laying the political groundwork for fresh Greek aid as Chancellor Angela Merkel, who has led bailout-weary Germany throughout the region’s debt crisis, battles to win a third term in office. German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble said yesterday for the first time that there “will have to be a program for Greece once again,” referring to previous euro-area pledges to provide “further measures and assistance” to ease the country’s debt burden.

[quote]European Union Economic and Monetary Affairs Commissioner Olli Rehn said today that the “possible continuation of Greece’s bailout program and its financing” will be assessed after a review next month by the so-called troika that oversees euro-area bailouts. European Central Bank Executive Board member Joerg Asmussen is in Athens to gauge the government’s progress on economic reforms.

[quote]More than three years after its first 110 billion euro ($147 billion) rescue, question marks remain over Greece’s ability to pay its bills. The country is mired in the sixth year of a recession that has left six in 10 young people without work. The International Monetary Fund predicts the economy will contract 4.2 percent this year before returning to growth in 2014.

This admission by Mr. Schäuble has made the Greek bailout a bone of contention in Germany's election. We were wondering why he made that admission and our conclusion is that it was meant to be a preemptive strike. It probably is supposed to take the wind out of the sails of critics in the event it becomes overly obvious prior to the election that the Greek government will require more aid (moreover, the Bundesbank has already made clear that its assessment of the situation is that the current bailout plan amounts to a mathematical impossibility). Greece's dire employment situation can be seen here:

by Anonymousreply 2308/24/2013

The problem is the rule. The GDP maximum deficit of 2% of GDP was a stupid and unworkable rule which foresaw no recessions EVER. They were hidebound ideological simpletons to ever make such a stupid rule.

by Anonymousreply 2408/24/2013

[quote]Picture what the USA would be like if it had to bail out Texas, Georgia and Florida from multi billion dollar deficits

You mean like Detroit? Chicago? LA?

by Anonymousreply 2508/24/2013

[quote]They cannot run deficits. It is in every state constitution of which I am aware. They have to balance their books at the end of each fiscal year. What that really means is that when they want to do something that requires borrowing, they have to issue bonds at market rates. They have to include in their budgets amounts to pay investors when the bonds are redeemed. There is a lot of fancy footwork in state budgets to get everything to come out right.

Yes, R8- they are required to balance the budget, but they do so by moving money from pension plans and future projects into paying current deficits, and now that there is no more money to steal from the future, they are bankrupt.

by Anonymousreply 2608/24/2013

R11-

I hope you're being facetious.

Real US unemployment is near 20%, and real inflation is over 7%.

Our government is raping the middle class to enrich the top .01%

by Anonymousreply 2708/24/2013

And yet what they are doing in Greece is even worse.

by Anonymousreply 2808/24/2013

Really?

by Anonymousreply 2908/24/2013

I really want to know when the EU is fixed.

by Anonymousreply 3008/24/2013

[quote]Real US unemployment is near 20%, and real inflation is over 7%.

No, actually, it's not, particularly the latter statement, which is manifestly untrue.

[quote]I really want to know when the EU is fixed.

If we adopt your economic proposals, never.

Since they still aren't tackling the root causes, the Eurozone will continue to have problems.

by Anonymousreply 3108/25/2013

My grandparents live in Spain and they hated it when every one started using the Euro. When they still had the peseta most everyday things were very affordable and food was incredibly cheap. Now everything has become ridiculously expensive.

by Anonymousreply 3208/25/2013

Yawn....

by Anonymousreply 3308/25/2013

R32-

That's why moronic tools like R31 piss me off- they have no concept of how BAD---really, REALLY bad- things are "on the ground" in Bilbao, or Bern or Bremen or Bratislava or Barcelona or Belgrade- the unemployment rate is nearly 50% due to the legislation from Bruxelles and the massive debts the governments of these countries took on to "reward" their politicians and "public workers".

No one is hiring- the government makes it impossible to fire someone unless they murder a co-worker, or speak ill of the government. The latter is a capital offence!

That doesn't count the trillions the EU "leaders" stole from their incompetent government overseers that they funneled into Russian and Bremuda based "private account boxes".

The EU (as an autocratic evil ruling body) needs to die. It is evil, un-reformable, and detrimental to the average European. The €uro needs to die too. It just gives more power to the government, and allows them to print trillions (like the Greece, Cyprus, Ireland, Italy, France, Portugal and Spain ---- the FPIGGS+C) anyone has ever seen.

It sucks that people who claim to be "liberal" still support a government that can steal trillions from the "little guys" with zero consequence.

by Anonymousreply 3408/25/2013

[quote]That's why moronic tools like [R31] piss me off-

Now you, on the other hand, I find funny as hell.

[quote]they have no concept of how BAD---really, REALLY bad- things are "on the ground" in Bilbao, or Bern or Bremen or Bratislava or Barcelona or Belgrade

Of course, since I haven't posted anything about Bilbao, Bern, Bremen, Bratislava, Barcelona, or Belgrade, I'm afraid that, as usual, you're making shit up and don't have a point. What I did post about, of course, was the U.S. and since I basically pointed out that you're full of shit and demonstrated why, and since you have no response, I'm afraid that once again I have to declare victory. Can you at least *try* to put up a fight?

[quote]the unemployment rate is nearly 50% due to the legislation from Bruxelles and the massive debts the governments of these countries took on to "reward" their politicians and "public workers".

Actually, the unemployment rate is up precisely because they followed your favorite economic policy, austerity, which has failed everywhere in the real world it's been tried. Funny how massively cutting government spending results in greater economic downturns and massive job loss while at the same time doing little to nothing about debt. But hey, I know the answer: more austerity!

[quote]That doesn't count the trillions the EU "leaders" stole from their incompetent government overseers that they funneled into Russian and Bremuda based "private account boxes".

Sigh... And now you're making shit up again.

[quote]It sucks that people who claim to be "liberal" still support a government that can steal trillions from the "little guys" with zero consequence.

And which government would that be and who are these "liberals" you refer to?

by Anonymousreply 3508/25/2013

[quote]It sucks that people who claim to be "liberal" still support a government that can steal trillions from the "little guys" with zero consequence.

It also sucks that idiots like you can flood a discussion board with brainless libertarian spam. Can't do much about that either, can we?

by Anonymousreply 3608/26/2013

R35-

[quote]Actually, the unemployment rate is up precisely because they followed your favorite economic policy, austerity,

This is why you are so ignorant. I've never supported "austerity" because it is bullshit smoke and mirrors. It is a promise to cut spending and reduce beauracacy while raising taxes, but only does the latter.

Youth unemployment (18-30) in Spain, Greece, Portugal and Italy is between 25-45% due to the fact that anyone they hire cannot be fired outside major criminal actions, the exorbitant social benefits the government steals to give to "the poor", the "red tape" any new business is subject of, the beauracratic nightmare of starting a new business, the taxes for anyone that does start a company--- no wonder the EU is fucked!

[quote]which has failed everywhere in the real world it's been tried.

If they made it easy to start a job or open a new company then "austerity" would be zero.

[quote]Funny how massively cutting government spending results in greater economic downturns

You have no proof. Every dollar or euro or yen spent by a government beauracrat is a dollar or euro stolen from the average working person.

If the government spends, then the taxpayer is on the hook for the debt.

[quote]and massive job loss while at the same time doing little to nothing about debt.

Until the government STOPS bailing out the banks, the auto industry, the big agricultural companies, etc. then we will be fucked.

[quote]But hey, I know the answer: more austerity

If the government quit giving money to the big corporations and banks we would be better off.

I wish you were smart enough to see through the bullshit Bernanke, Obama, Reid, Graham, etc. spew and realize that the government is the enemy, and is killing the economy while giving trillions to their buddies in the big biz world.

by Anonymousreply 3708/26/2013

Once again Greece is thisclose to default.

by Anonymousreply 3812/09/2014

R37-

I had forgotten how wrong Krugman was.

by Anonymousreply 4001/17/2015

The Grexit Cometh.

by Anonymousreply 4101/26/2015

Bump

by Anonymousreply 4202/10/2015

Libertarian Idiot.

by Anonymousreply 4302/10/2015

Such wit, R43.

by Anonymousreply 4402/10/2015

And once again, the weakness shows.

Will Austria unleash the next wave?

by Anonymousreply 4503/02/2015

7 years later, and the euro is still fucked.

by Anonymousreply 4603/06/2015

spam

spam

spam

recycled Libertarian Idiot

spam

spam

spam

spam...

by Anonymousreply 4703/06/2015

But how often can these Libertarians be wrong before they start to question their information source?

by Anonymousreply 4803/06/2015

R47-

The euro is fixed?

Ha hahahhahahaaaa!!!!

by Anonymousreply 4903/07/2015

[quote] R48: But how often can these Libertarians be wrong before they start to question their information source?

Well, apparently at least one more time, see R49.

by Anonymousreply 5003/07/2015

Another day closer to Grexit...or Graccident.

by Anonymousreply 5105/30/2015

Testing

by Anonymousreply 5206/11/2015

Thomsen said the fact that Greece was on track to run a deficit when it should be well on its way to running a budget surplus suggests to the IMF that EU creditors should be prepared to write down their Greek debt so as to make the country’s debt-to-GDP ratio more ‘sustainable.’ Unsurprisingly, Europe wasn't particularly enthusiastic about the idea.

Thomsen’s remarks — which were delivered to EU finance ministers at an April meeting in Riga — were followed up by reports that the IMF had informed the ECB and the European Commission that the Fund would not be participating in a third Greek bailout program.

Earlier today, those reports were confirmed as the IMF has withdrawn its team and sent its lead negotiators back to Washington. Meanwhile, a meeting between Tsipras and European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker was billed by one EU official as a "last attempt" to convey the urgency of the situation to the Greek PM. European Council President Donald Tusk (who met with Tsipras on Wednesday) has also voiced frustration at Athens' apparent belligerence in the face of economic oblivion.

by Anonymousreply 5306/11/2015

Tsipras and Syriza are planning on a new Drachma.

by Anonymousreply 5406/16/2015

What are the details, R54?

by Anonymousreply 5506/16/2015

R55-

Now, it appears as though EU officials aren’t the only ones drawing up plans for capital controls and Grexit because as The Telegraph reports, the far-left faction within Syriza is ready to transition back to the drachma. Here’s more:

----

The radical wing of Greece's Syriza party is to table plans over coming days for an Icelandic-style default and a nationalisation of the Greek banking system, deeming it pointless to continue talks with Europe's creditor powers.

Syriza sources say measures being drafted include capital controls and the establishment of a sovereign central bank able to stand behind a new financial system. While some form of dual currency might be possible in theory, such a structure would be incompatible with euro membership and would imply a rapid return to the drachma.

The confidential plans were circulating over the weekend and have the backing of 30 MPs from the Aristeri Platforma or 'Left Platform', as well as other hard-line groupings in Syriza's spectrum. It is understood that the nationalist ANEL party in the ruling coalition is also willing to force a rupture with creditors, if need be.

"This goes well beyond the Left Platform. We are talking serious numbers," said one Syriza MP involved in the draft.

"We are all horrified by the idea of surrender, and we will not allow ourselves to be throttled to death by European monetary union," he told the Telegraph.

Syriza's Left Platform has studied the Icelandic model, extolled as a success story by the International Monetary Fund itself.

"The Greek banks must be nationalised immediately, along with the creation of a bad bank. There may have to be some restrictions on cash withdrawals," said one Syriza MP.

"The banks will go ape-s*** of course. We are aware that there will be a lot of lawsuits but at the end of the day we are a sovereign power," he said.

Syriza has a strong ideological motive to strike at the financial elites. They view the banks as the nerve centre of an entrenched oligarchy that has run the country for more than half a century as a family business. Forcing these institutions into bankruptcy provides cover for a socio-political purge, best understood as a revolution.

Iceland is a tempting model for Greece, but the parallel can be pushed too far. The Nordic country seized control of its three big banks - Glitnir, Kaupthing, and Landsbanki - when the crisis span out of control in late 2008.

by Anonymousreply 5606/16/2015

I am just afraid it will be the equivalent of the bankruptcy of Bear Stearns and sends us spiraling back into crisis.

by Anonymousreply 5706/16/2015

I have wondered how Greece might leave the euro. If I was the Greek President, I'd have asked Putin to manufacture generically designed bank notes. If they're going to dump the Euro, they'll need new notes available immediately. I do t think they could leave the Euro without new bank notes being immediately available.

by Anonymousreply 5806/16/2015

R57-

Central banks have destroyed us. We are living in the aftermath.

by Anonymousreply 5906/21/2015

Don't be ridiculous. Failure to understand that capitalism is self-defeating unless it is regulated to prevent excess wealth accumulation: that is what is killing us AND the Europeans. People i n Cyprus have a better handle on it than the idiots here.

by Anonymousreply 6006/21/2015

Nothing is actually killing me. I'm in the US, and we're thriving here. Isn't "Northern Europe" doing well also?

I find it hard to understand the mentality behind people who dramatically write that "Central banks have destroyed us", or that anything is "killing us", when its simply not true. Every generation has struggled. Every generation has winners and losers. We are overdue for a 20% correction in the stock market and when it happens our stand of living will still be head and shoulders above the standard of living that 99.99999% of humanity has lived with in the history and prehistory of mankind.

by Anonymousreply 6106/21/2015

R61-

You're drunk.

You are too drunk (on free money) to even see how fucking drunk you are.

Give me your keys. NOW!

You want to drive?

Well, if you kill yourself, or someone else, I can say I tried.

by Anonymousreply 6206/21/2015

R61-

You do realize that China, alone, has the ability to create 100% inflation in the USA in a matter of months, or perhaps days, by selling off UST holdings?

It would hurt their economy (and provoke war with China AND Russia) but would cripple our country.

Any economist knows this, but thinks that China would never "act rashly"- they forget that China and Russia play the long game.

by Anonymousreply 6306/21/2015

R63, no, I don't realize that, because it isn't true.

It is true; however, that China could lob a nuclear weapon on the U.S. or on an ally at any moment, though they will not do so. There are a lot of true things that are just true and terrible but are not particularly interesting to speculate about.

by Anonymousreply 6406/21/2015

Poor Libertarian fuckwit. Bumping his own 2.5 year old threads, then furiously masturbates over them as he predicts world-changing catastrophes. Then nothing happens. Lather, rinse, repeat.

by Anonymousreply 6506/22/2015

Poor R65

Stupid and alone.

by Anonymousreply 6606/22/2015

No, R64 is correct. Time and time again, he is proved correct. That must be terribly annoying to the Libertarian fuckwit, who keeps being proved wrong, time and time again.

by Anonymousreply 6706/23/2015
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