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Will the United States ever recover?

Will it ever get back to it's former strength or is this the beginning of the end for that country?

by Anonymousreply 24106/19/2014

No.

by Anonymousreply 103/16/2013

It will not regain any glory unless it gets rid of the culture of corruption and the continual glorification of Mafia values.

by Anonymousreply 203/16/2013

All things flow from the Boulevard as Pericles said...

so as goes the US so goes the rest of you.

by Anonymousreply 303/16/2013

This is the beginning of the end, OP.

by Anonymousreply 403/16/2013

It was all over for the U.S. on 9-11.

by Anonymousreply 503/16/2013

No. We're now living the free market capital dream, which is to roll back the clock to 1860. That means no civil rights, no voting rights, no worker protections, no environmental protections, no public education. Small government, big churches, health care is strictly pay as you go and if you can't pay, go get a bottle of moonshine, find a corner to curl up and pray for a quick death.

by Anonymousreply 603/16/2013

It was all just one...big...bubble.

by Anonymousreply 703/16/2013

Cheney/Bush seized the 9/11 with knee jerk reactions and lined the pockets of themselves and their cronies with taxpayers money. The country is now ushering in slavery, the new plantation owners are the corporate oligarchs.

Both parties are shafting the masses and while the Democratic Party is the lesser of two evils, that's not saying much.

We need to be diligent and vote OUT the worst, reform our governmental system and remember; the elected are public servants, not our masters.

by Anonymousreply 803/16/2013

Ditto [R6], you forgot to mention the indignity of wearing a burka!

by Anonymousreply 1003/16/2013

Not unless we get greedy corporations under control.

by Anonymousreply 1103/16/2013

Not as long as the Republican Party is in charge of anything.

by Anonymousreply 1203/16/2013

The Dogs Bark and the Caravan Rolls On.

by Anonymousreply 1303/16/2013

Hopefully. Post-Imperial countries are so much cooler. England, the Netherlands, Germany, France, Japan, etc.

by Anonymousreply 1403/16/2013

We could recover. Whether we shall is a very different question. There is no poential leader on or even near the scene now with the qualities of Franklin D. Roosevelt and Ronald Reagan.

by Anonymousreply 1503/16/2013

Ronald Reagan?

He was the second worst president of the 20th century! Gads!

Even putting his name in the same sentence with FDR is sacrilege.

by Anonymousreply 1603/16/2013

R16 for President.

by Anonymousreply 1703/16/2013

Ronald Reagan was a stooge! Nothing more then an Alzheimer patient, who was a puppet for corporations and the military. How dare you speak his name in the same sentence with Roosevelt? You repulsive idiot, R15.

by Anonymousreply 1803/16/2013

R18 for VP

by Anonymousreply 1903/16/2013

We may long be a power but the middle class which made America a great country has forever been harmed and will continue to decline. Too many people on the planet that will work for peanuts. We manufacturer almost nothing in favor of a service industry economy. Greed for never ending profit and financial shenanigans are the new order. Making money by manipulation is what it is all about. Money laundering, Wall Street schemes and the like that provide almost no jobs for anyone. Our economy has been driven by the military industrial complex and will continue to be. Be prepared to donate more American lives for profit. Radical Islam is forever. AND, now for the down side..............

by Anonymousreply 2003/16/2013

How can it recover when 1% of the population now holds like 90% of the money supply...and they ain't spending it?

by Anonymousreply 2103/16/2013

It is bcause of Ronnie Ray Gun that we are in this mess today!!!

Christ!

by Anonymousreply 2203/16/2013

So true, R20.

"As goes the middle class, so goes the nation."

Any country with a struggling middle class is vulnerable internally and externally.

I wonder if we have painted ourselves into a corner that will take generations to shift. A middle income salary can't handle simultaneous pressures to have enough funds to handle: school loans, mortgages, raising a family, college for kids, saving for retirement/eldercare, affordable health insurance, ongoing rises in food and gas prices, etc. And God forbid having extra money to travel, eat out regularly, shop for new clothes, etc.

The "American Dream" is becoming a luxury.

by Anonymousreply 2303/16/2013

OP means American imperialism. America hasn't never not been backwards. The Civil Rights Act wasn't even a century ago. Gays are still treated sub-human. What OP should be asking is, 'will America ever grow the fuck up, and exit the Stone Age?' The answer is no. There are too many nutcases, and the country's culture is barbaric, at least for a civilized Western country, that still touts itself as the 'leader of the Free World.'

by Anonymousreply 2403/16/2013

Corporate monopoly was not far worse in the 1930s to 1960s. You're sniffing glue.

by Anonymousreply 2603/16/2013

Middle class = made up of a majority of working class people who hate being referred to as working class.

by Anonymousreply 2703/16/2013

We must beat down the underclasses.

by Anonymousreply 2803/16/2013

Didn't Rome fall when there was nothing left but the very rich and very poor?

by Anonymousreply 2903/17/2013

Corporate monopoly may have been worse in the 30s, I don't know, but certainly it wasn't as globally interconnected as it is today.

That and free trade agreements have killed the middle class because the jobs are going where the pay is cheap. I gather there's some return to serious manufacturing in industrialized countries, probably because of infrastructure weakness in developing countries.

by Anonymousreply 3003/17/2013

So for those of you who believe the US is never coming back, I assume you're no longer investing in US stocks? Please advise.

by Anonymousreply 3103/17/2013

[R31] Uh, Nope. Best advice is study Tax history. Ain't gonna have nutihin to invest unless we underlings start learning about protecting the penny's we earn! First rule of investing is never, never, ever put at risk money you can't afford to lose. Period.

And be glad you weren't born in a third world country.

by Anonymousreply 3203/18/2013

How do we do that r32? If you have a way to help, don't hold back. What are the safest things to do with our money?

by Anonymousreply 3303/18/2013

Capitalism is bankrupt around the world. They have nowhere to go. Every inch of the globe has been marketed to, or turned into sweatshops, and everyone has McDonalds and Starbucks. The earth itself is paying for it - the environmental damage is severe and only getting worse. The leaders, govt and corporate, know this and have decided the only way to maintain profits is to destroy their own countries - reducing standard of living, increasing the population living in poverty.

by Anonymousreply 3403/18/2013

Recover would mean, what, back to normal? There's no turning back. There is only forward and as it looks now forward means the 1% is holding all the power while the rest lives in slave-like conditions where their survival depends on either the kindness of the 1% or being of use for them.

The 1% not just hoard money. They hoard resources like land, food, gas, drinkable water, technology, weaponary, etc. for their own and maybe their personal slaves who service them.

by Anonymousreply 3503/18/2013

The U.S. is in decline. It happens to all empires.

by Anonymousreply 3703/22/2013

[quote] Middle class = made up of a majority of working class people who hate being referred to as working class.

Completely agree with this. It's like being working class is shameful or something. It also seems like nobody gives a fuck about the working class.

by Anonymousreply 3803/22/2013

Politicians don't get elected by putting down the USA. They only get elected by assuring the voters of American Exceptionalism.

by Anonymousreply 3903/22/2013

I'm imagining a long, slow death. As we rush around frantically trying to keep countries from succumbing to The Muslim Menace. Eventually the money will run out, our infrastructure will falter, people in bread lines. Then the foreign investors who own half the country now will cash-in and it won't be the united of anything anymore. Out with a whimper.

by Anonymousreply 4003/22/2013

It won't be a slow death the truth is it will be quick and too fast for Americans to respond to. Don't be fooled.

One day China will sell their US dollars and this will result in a chain reaction around the world. Currently, the BRIC and Iran actively plan to end the petrodollar and trade in gold and other currencies for oil and other goods. They have already began to do this. Other major oil producing nations will be forced to follow suit or lose their economic power.

When this happens all those US dollars (2/3 of the total US money in circulation) around the world will come home to roost. This will result in a currency super-storm of epic proportions dwarfing all hyperinflation rates ever occurring in history.

Prepare by getting away for US dollars and into silver and gold.

by Anonymousreply 4103/23/2013

That's a little paranoid, r41. Even if such a fire sale were actually possible, people would swoop in to grab a deal. Let's say your nefarious singly minded Chinese hive decides to lose half their money by "selling" dollars for half their value. Lots of smart people would offer 60 percent or more, stabilizing the dollar. And why would they sell off at a loss anyway?

by Anonymousreply 4203/23/2013

I haven't been able to find anything except a shitty low-paying part-time job in the last 4 years, so I would say no.

by Anonymousreply 4303/23/2013

Change China to Japan and I heard all this 20 years ago.

by Anonymousreply 4403/23/2013

Marko Ruvio, how absurd. 99% of Americans never heard the term "American Exceptionalism" before the Republican convention, and 99% could not tell you want it means after they heard it at the republican convention.

by Anonymousreply 4503/23/2013

R41 is probably a fundi Christian, they have been preaching this for years.

by Anonymousreply 4603/23/2013

FRESH WATER. .... How we use it or abuse it..... That's what's going to determine our fate, as the human race.

by Anonymousreply 4703/23/2013

[R46], not even close. I was raised a muslim but have since become an agnostic humanist.

{R44] Japan never was able to really print its own money like the federal reserve and certainly not at the rate the US is currently doing now. Super high inflation is about to hit America and we can already see inflation rates accelerating rapidly as food prices have doubled in the last three years. There is a very good reason the government doesn't count in food prices, oil or clothing in its annual measure of inflation.

They don't want you to know.

by Anonymousreply 4803/23/2013

R49, the debt we must now cover was built up by one George W. Bush.

by Anonymousreply 5003/23/2013

If I had a vat of acid, the ignorant fool at R49 would be doomed. What a lowlife, corporate loving whore...ignorant pig, that's r49.

by Anonymousreply 5103/23/2013

.

by Anonymousreply 5403/23/2013

No, r52 / r53. Bush II lowered the tax rate. Then after 9/11, he got us into two wars but didn't return the tax rate to the higher rate. Please, tell me how Obama did the same thing as that.

by Anonymousreply 5503/23/2013

Last I checked, Ben Bernanke fired up the printing presses long ago under Bush.

by Anonymousreply 5703/23/2013

[R57], you're only proving my point.

by Anonymousreply 5803/23/2013

.

by Anonymousreply 5903/24/2013

Not until we break the "USA" into 20 or 50 or 100 autonomous regions that can govern at a local level.

The USA IS dying, and the corrupt elite will kill us to keep power. Our government is corrupt and evil to the core.

by Anonymousreply 6006/17/2014

What I never understood is how the US has the audacity to call itself a "democracy" with only TWO political parties. A few true democracies:

Israel - 31 political parties Botswana - 10 Brazil - 21 Albania - 7 Austria - 5 Belgium - 11 Bosnia Herzegovina - 7 Canada - 5 Chile - 8 Denmark - 8 Faroe Islands - 7 France - 10 Poland - 6 South Africa - 33 Sweden - 8

by Anonymousreply 6106/17/2014

A corrupt regime that keeps the majority on their knees lasts as long as the oppressed have no hope things will ever improve. When people are given hope, they get angry, and that's how revolutions start.

by Anonymousreply 6206/17/2014

When a corrupt, despotic regime is considered weak, those with the greatest firepower and support will challenge the regime in order to become the next corrupt despot and acquire the fallen regime's power and wealth. The masses have no part in this scenario.

by Anonymousreply 6306/17/2014

R61 Representative Republic, back to 2nd grade for you.

by Anonymousreply 6406/17/2014

R20 Absolutely nailed it.

by Anonymousreply 6506/17/2014

Not very big on the representation part.

by Anonymousreply 6606/17/2014

No, the insurance companies are steering the country now, it will be disastrous.

by Anonymousreply 6706/17/2014

Not if we continue on the current path. obama is a disaster and is getting worse.

by Anonymousreply 6806/17/2014

Because of Obama, I now proudly fly an American flag on my home. He did what Dubya could not: he got Osama bin Laden. We haven't had Al Qaeda attack us on our own soil since he's been in office. Nor have we had any stupid blunders like Hurricane Katrina.

God bless President Obama. He will be even more popular than Clinton during his post-presidency.

The haters are just jellin...maybe it's because he has a nice ass...and probably a nice package to go with it.

by Anonymousreply 6906/17/2014

R69, I missed the part where Obama was piloting a helicopter or was on the ground with a gun during the raid. That's pretty ballsy for a president to do!

by Anonymousreply 7106/17/2014

ThIs is the thread for the silly ninnies to peck away at each other

Good! I hope they stay here

by Anonymousreply 7206/17/2014

Freeper topic -

First of all there are not more people on welfare than working - that is a repub scare tactic. (see link below for the truth).

People have such short term memory is it ridiculous. This former glory that we are supposed to recover? Ummm it is what caused the economic collapse. The deregulation of everything allowed big business to run rampant. Banks got to turn our homes into profit, selling the american dream cheap and fast and loose. Homes were over valued and under finanaced. People bought homes they could never afford thinking they could sell them for huge profit before their arm rate kicked in.

Couple that with the break down of the american union worker. Unions became a dirty word under Reagan who destoryed the air traffic controllers union, something that still has not recovered today. The breakdown of the middle class started in the 80's and continues today.

Lastly, the right has taken on the church as a partner and continues to fool the poor and middle class that social issues are more important than basic prosperity. Gays in the military, same sex marriage, abortion they continue to convince the poor that these things are robbing them of their rights. How long has Rowe V Wade been around and they are still using abortion as a platform.

Obama has done much to recover to core of the US, things that are not apparent like sinking a lot of money into infrastructure repair. Healthcare reform, like it or not, is a huge step towards a better US. (we are the only indutrialized nation to have a for profit health care system). He pulled us out of the financial crisis, jobs have recovered to pre cirsis numbers (despite the lies of the right) . Has he done everything right? No but for a president with a congress who is stonewalling him he is getting things done.

by Anonymousreply 7306/17/2014

We need to give the old heave-ho to those with a celebrated right to return to other countries.

People who immigrate here are fine -- people wanting to camp out and exploit us for their own cultures' interest should be fair game.

by Anonymousreply 7406/17/2014

r71, if getting OBL were easy, Dubya would have done. He had several years. Obama got him in his first term.

r69, who cares what a racist troll thinks. They project everything bad about them onto other people.

So basically, everything you say about me is really true about you.

by Anonymousreply 7506/17/2014

Not until Marcus Bachmann comes out. Everyone hates us. We squander all of our money giving trillions to countries who stab us in the back. We want to police the world but cannot. The 1% want to keep the poor as helpless as they can and hoard all of the money. We do not understand or accept different cultures who have been here far longer than we have been and expect everyone to view the world as we do. And on and on and on. When there is a bloody revolution in the USA and all of the corporate and political pigs are hung in every town square, then perhaps we will recover. And when women stop thinking that owning a $4,000 handbag is more important that anything else.

by Anonymousreply 7606/17/2014

[quote]People have such short term memory is it ridiculous.

it shocks me it is a so bad, do people take amnesia pills?

by Anonymousreply 7706/17/2014

It's all Obama's fault.

by Anonymousreply 7806/17/2014

What do you want the President to do- stay chained in the Oval Office 24/7? Let him golf for a few hours- it can clear his mind and give him a few hours of relaxation. You try getting up at 5 every morning and work until 11. You assholes probably didn't mind when The Major Asshole Bush went to clear brush on his ranch. Now he paints pictures of his feet-such a deep thinker.

by Anonymousreply 8006/17/2014

Compared to W he hardly leaves the Oval. That fucking Bush was on vacation for half his presidency.

by Anonymousreply 8206/17/2014

What national crisis could use Obama's 24/7 attention? What exactly should he be doing? Pushing for bills the Senate filibusters? Making executive orders the Right decries? What EXACTLY would you have him do?

by Anonymousreply 8406/17/2014

Still waiting to hear what you think the President should be doing and isn't.

by Anonymousreply 8606/17/2014

If you could see what the rest of the world really looks like, you would be absolutely sure that the U.S. will continue to be the world's main empire for a long time

by Anonymousreply 8706/17/2014

This country is in a decline due to the policies of the Bush Administration. It's staying in decline because Congress would rather go against anything that Obama wants instead of doing what's best for the middle class. Fox and the Tea Party have these working class idiots thinking that the black president is taking everything away from them when in fact it is the Republicans that are doing it. If half the population of this country doesn't wake up soon we will sink.

by Anonymousreply 8806/17/2014

I don't think it's the beginning of the end. I think it's the middle of the end.

by Anonymousreply 9006/17/2014

O-bots are so funny, no matter what OP does, they can think of a whiny little defense.

Really poisons the discourse

by Anonymousreply 9106/17/2014

"OH, MARY. We want nothing more than Mr. Obama perform the duties of office. And, to finally get it right."

Another contentless post. What exactly is he not doing or not doing right?

by Anonymousreply 9206/17/2014

LOL...the irony.

Bush ignored two Presidential Daily Briefs warning him about Al Qaeda flying planes into skyscrapers. Why? Because he was clearing brush at his "Western" White House in Crawford.

Bush continued to read My Pet Goat after being told about 9/11.

Did anybody question Condi Rice about it? Not like they did HRC re: four deaths in LIBYA.

We're just pointing out the freeper hypocrisy. There is a direct connection between their faux criticism of Obmaa and their amnesia re: Dubya.

Under Bush, we started a futile and unnecessary war in Iraq. Thousands of people died because of a lie -- we weren't there for WMD, but for OIL. Now Iraq is falling apart again.

Was it worth it? It was the only time in our history that our country willfully tortured people. Thanks, Dubya.

Obama rocks simply because we were on the brink of hell when he took office. Those days are behind us...and it's no accident as to why.

We now have a competent president. He's righted a lot of Bush's wrongs.

by Anonymousreply 9306/17/2014

R75, what, exactly, did Obama do to "get" Bin Laden? Did he provide new intelligence? Did he grab a gun and jump out of a helicopter? No. Our special forces and intelligence agencies got Bin Laden. Giving a president credit for what our military does is juvenile.

by Anonymousreply 9406/17/2014

If the McDonald's CEO plays a few rounds, do the Big Macs stop being flipped?

The President occupies a largely symbolic figurehead role at the head of the vast well-staffed machinery of late capitalism and that machine does not need his presence to function.

by Anonymousreply 9506/17/2014

Only when its a Democrat, right r94? If a successful military operation takes place at the command of a Republican president then he should get all the credit, right?

I just can't seem to recall a recent one...

by Anonymousreply 9606/17/2014

It's not that bad, r97 -- other countries will rush in to aid us, Obama aside.

Supporting Obama policies, however...

Most of Europe now thinks O is a jerk.

by Anonymousreply 9806/17/2014

"If this country comes under military attack, how many countries will rush here to aid Obama?"

47.

by Anonymousreply 9906/17/2014

It will not recover as long as the people believe in free market ideology, which is stupid and wrong.

by Anonymousreply 10006/17/2014

"Most of Europe now thinks O is a jerk."

This is based on...? Your viewing of Fox News, perhaps?

by Anonymousreply 10206/17/2014

The flood of illegals into this country will be the end of the US. There's a politician in New York who is trying to get non-citizens the right to vote. I'm sorry your history teacher didn't teach you about the Fall of the Roman Empire, but America is re-living that right now.

by Anonymousreply 10306/17/2014

The Roman Empire fell because the oligarchs used Mexican labor?

by Anonymousreply 10406/17/2014

In California r103, the State court decided to allow an illegal alien attorney the right to practice la

by Anonymousreply 10506/17/2014

R97, other countries will rush to America's side if the country is attacked and will help militarily - as long as the target is the right one. The problem with the Iraq war in 2003 is that the completely wrong country was targetted. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. But, the "New American Century" thinkers in the Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Wolfowitz circle who were pusing for an attack on Iraq, in the mistaken belief that this would cement US global supremacy, fucked up big time, and have left the US in a much weaker position.

R98, we in Europe aren't amazingly impressed with Obama but we don't necessarily think he's a dick. We still, however, prefer him to Bush II or Mitt Romney and certainly over John McCain.

On a more general level, the US isn't in "decline". Other countries and regions are rising because of increased opportunities in a globalised world. In any case, for most of the post-WWII period the US wasn't the sole global superpower, but one of the two main superpowers along with the Soviet Union. It's only since the early 1990s that the notion of the US as the sole superpower has existed.

by Anonymousreply 10606/17/2014

Oh, heavens! How did Caesar allow this?

by Anonymousreply 10706/17/2014

[quote]The flood of illegals into this country will be the end of the US.

there are fewer illegals coming of late, so just go ahead and take a deep breath

But, go right ahead and get your panties in a twist if you'd like. You seen to enjoy it

by Anonymousreply 10806/17/2014

[quote]to allow an illegal alien attorney the right to practice la

Pray! tell! was this is El Lay?

by Anonymousreply 10906/17/2014

Post information about it, r110. If you have something of value to contribute, do so.

by Anonymousreply 11206/17/2014

No, we will never recover. But many other countries that were once on top and no longer are, exist just fine.

by Anonymousreply 11306/17/2014

Yeah, I'm still waiting for whatever it is you are jumping up and down about.

by Anonymousreply 11506/17/2014

HOW CAN YOU NOT LOVE CHERYL !

by Anonymousreply 11606/17/2014

[quote]Didn't you about what's currently going on down at the Mexican border over the past few days?

Uh, no, do tell

by Anonymousreply 11706/17/2014

r110, there is currently an immigration crisis in the US. How is the US supposed to take care of all these people? And with the economy being in the toilet, how do you think we can support any more immigrants?

by Anonymousreply 11806/17/2014

R115 Put the Bon-Bons and diet coke down, Mary, and Google "What is currently happening at the Mexican border."

by Anonymousreply 11906/17/2014

R114, why do you put a space between the end of the sentence and the question/exclamation mark like it's 1952?

by Anonymousreply 12006/17/2014

No, r119, you see it's not my job to guess what you are talking about. Make an argument, back it up with facts, or shut the fuck up.

by Anonymousreply 12106/17/2014

I know R118. That was the point of my post

by Anonymousreply 12206/17/2014

R120 Just to make your head explode ! ! !

Obama is busy wondering about this, too ! ! !

by Anonymousreply 12306/17/2014

R121 Relax, Mary......Have another Bob-Bon. Your soaps will be on soon.

by Anonymousreply 12406/17/2014

The US economy is not in the toilet. What are you, Dory from Finding Nemo?

by Anonymousreply 12506/17/2014

Yeah, I'm completely out of control. I'm the Chicken Little yelling about the sky falling.

by Anonymousreply 12606/17/2014

[quote]Will the United States ever recover?

Remember: what we are recovering from is Dubya's failed presidency.

by Anonymousreply 12706/17/2014

"The US economy is not in the toilet. What are you, Dory from Finding Nemo?"

Yes it is. Read a few posts from your fellow DLers. People are talking about losing their jobs and being out of work for more than six months at a time. Just because it doesn't affect you doesn't mean it isn't happening.

by Anonymousreply 12806/17/2014

The economy is somewhere overseas in a latrine.

by Anonymousreply 12906/17/2014

If the economy is in the toilet (which it isn't, but lets just pretend), what was it 2007-2009?

You do understand that people lose their jobs all the time and that it is the aggregate that matters, right?

by Anonymousreply 13006/17/2014

Reagan was a dumbass who didn't know his ass from the hole in the ground!

AND his good friend gay Auntie Merv who also never helped gays I mean Reagan refused to help the aids crisis or acknowledge it

FDR was a great man of vision

I think the US needs to curtail immigration esp with Middle Easterners--already there are terrorist cells here waiting to strike Yes it is true so ultra libs don't bother with your snarky comments

by Anonymousreply 13106/17/2014

There are billions of Chinese and Indian people who want nothing more than to work their butts off for much lower wages than Americans can or should work for.

The post-war years, late 1940's into the seventies, offered an illusion to many Americans that capitalism would provide endless growth, resulting in a huge, educated, wealthy, always employed, homeowning middle class.

That is not what capitalism brings. It benefits a tiny elite. The majority of us scramble to stay afloat. If you sink, the rancid ideological myth that wealth is there for the grabbing, for all, if you were only less lazy, more go-getting, more ruthless, gets you to beat up on yourself rather than seeing the system as it is.

Most of we subjects under capitalism are slaves to employers, markets and advertising.

by Anonymousreply 13206/17/2014

"Reagan was a dumbass who didn't know his ass from the hole in the ground!"

And yet he managed to win the election by getting 49 states to vote for him. Whatever you may think about him, dumbass he was not.

by Anonymousreply 13306/17/2014

I believe the "average" person is waking up to this reality, R132. The rejection of this parasitic system will trigger not recovery, but a transformation.

by Anonymousreply 13406/17/2014

R121 They are looking for volunteers to help with diaper changing and feeding at the Mexican border. Why not go down and show your true patriotism? I bet you'll even run into Michelle.

by Anonymousreply 13506/17/2014

Winning and being a dumbass are not mutually exclusive, dummmy R133.

by Anonymousreply 13606/17/2014

I somehow doubt Ronnie was the architect of his own campaigning strategies.

The man projected a persona which appealed to the majority of the voters. That has nothing to do with intellect in the same way as movie stardom does not require intellect.

by Anonymousreply 13706/17/2014

R137 Ronnie may not have been the architect, but he did end up as the CEO.

by Anonymousreply 13806/17/2014

We hired Obama to reverse job loss, the money drain to the 1% and the military, and to end the neo-con scourge.

All we got a bunch of immediate whining about how change was hard, and bullying from Obama's white supporters if we said anything negative.

We also got a health care system that few will benefit from and would not have been necessary had people had jobs with benefits restored.

O's black supporters are long gone back into worsening poverty.

by Anonymousreply 13906/17/2014

of course Uncle Ronnie was a puppet for someone or many someones

the man came across like the jerk you avoid at family reunions

loved his tarot and seances and the lie that no he was 150 yet he did not dye his hair until the truth came out when he was in the hospital after he was shot or something

he WAS a dumbass getting elected does not mean he was smart or a good politician

and the term the great communicator was invented by another dumbass journalist

by Anonymousreply 14006/17/2014

Seances? Figures. Silly old man.

by Anonymousreply 14106/17/2014

Everyone.......QUICK......hide the hair dye !

by Anonymousreply 14206/17/2014

Look at all the scandals that are swirling around Obama. He is a terrible leader. It's time for Obama to step up and take responsibility for the shape that the US is in. And those of you who are crying "This is Bush's fault" well Obama has had enough time to fix the problem.

by Anonymousreply 14306/17/2014

I don't know of any "scandals", r143. Which do you mean?

Bush did irreperable damage to the position of the United States around the world - an irreperable damage to parts of the world (Iraq).

In any case, any problems need to properly identified, not just lots of screaming and whining.

by Anonymousreply 14406/17/2014

I'll bet the "tell all" book that comes out after this POTUS leaves office is going to be absolutely amazing. I voted for the schlub, but I can see there are some serious cracks in the armour at this stage.

by Anonymousreply 14706/17/2014

All this brouhaha means nothing. Of course the US is in decline economically-per capita, but when it gets really bad the guillotines, or what ever their 21st century equivalent will correct this problem. The same scenario played out in France in the 19th century. It will all happen again in the US.

by Anonymousreply 14806/17/2014

R146 - those are hardly scandals.

by Anonymousreply 15006/17/2014

r146 is blind to the Bush's support of terrorist like Hitler. What a sicko.

by Anonymousreply 15106/17/2014

I wonder what will happen when we simply run out of money? Will we spend our last dollar trying to prevent Terror? Or will the people revolt before that happens, and demand the leaders stop our spiral down the drain?

by Anonymousreply 15306/17/2014

R152 doesn't have a passport.

by Anonymousreply 15406/17/2014

There are few people more suspicious than a PATRIOT, r152

by Anonymousreply 15506/17/2014

R87-

[quote]If you could see what the rest of the world really looks like, you would be absolutely sure that the U.S. will continue to be the world's main empire for a long time.

I've visited 42 different countries, from Eurasia to South America to Africa, and if you think the US is special...well, that shows how ignorant you really are.

We have $222TRILLION in debt, debt that is quickly consuming us.

The bullshit in Iraq, Syria, Ukraine, Iran- all started and financed by the CIA- will push gas prices to $6-9/gallon. That will kill our economy.

When China dumps a few trillion in worthless UST bonds and crashes the dollar...the US will be the newest third world country.

by Anonymousreply 15606/17/2014

R87-

[quote]If you could see what the rest of the world really looks like, you would be absolutely sure that the U.S. will continue to be the world's main empire for a long time.

I've visited 42 different countries, from Eurasia to South America to Africa, and if you think the US is special...well, that shows how ignorant you really are.

We have $222TRILLION in debt, debt that is quickly consuming us.

The bullshit in Iraq, Syria, Ukraine, Iran- all started and financed by the CIA- will push gas prices to $6-9/gallon. That will kill our economy.

When China dumps a few trillion in worthless UST bonds and crashes the dollar...the US will be the newest third world country.

by Anonymousreply 15706/17/2014

R93-

[quote]Bush ignored two Presidential Daily Briefs warning him about Al Qaeda flying planes into skyscrapers. Why? Because he was clearing brush at his "Western" White House in Crawford.

Do you really think the son of the former director of the CIA didn't know what was happening?

Are you really that naive, or just stupid?

Bush and Cheney knew that a few thousand innocent people dying would give them the power to remake the Middle East.

Please grow up and learn some history.

by Anonymousreply 15806/17/2014

R128-

[quote]"The US economy is not in the toilet. What are you, Dory from Finding Nemo?"

Yes, it is. The government lies about unemployment are sick. Workforce participation is at 40 year lows--- a time when most women didn't work! Using the US Unemployment methods from 1980 shows a 22% unemployment rate. Household income - adjusted for the major inflation we are experiencing - is lower than 1968.

[quote]Yes it is. Read a few posts from your fellow DLers. People are talking about losing their jobs and being out of work for more than six months at a time. Just because it doesn't affect you doesn't mean it isn't happening.

Don't bother. They pretend everything is the fault of the Rethuglicans and Bush, and that the "minor problems" with the ACA - like millions losing insurance, ER clusterfucks, the VA scandal, Dr shortages- are all the fault of the "free market". We don't have a free market- we have a fascist system controlled by a network of oligarchs and corporations and banks.

Republicans are just as evil as Democrats, and one day they will wake up to that fact.

by Anonymousreply 16006/17/2014

R129-

[quote]The economy is somewhere overseas in a latrine.

Yes! it is. The insane regulations and Byzantine tax system makes it easier for companies to operate overseas instead of dealing with dozens of busybody twats with a badge and an attitude.

My overseas operations- mom and pop small biz manufacturing operations- are far more profitable than any of my US ops.

by Anonymousreply 16106/17/2014

R130-

The current malaise has 3 fathers- constant money pumping by the Federal Reserve, a regulatory environment that discourages new entrepreneurs, and a bankster culture that lets them rape the bottom 99.9% with zero punishment.

No wonder our government is buying billions of bullets to kill dissident citizens.

Nazi's didn't have American Idol.

by Anonymousreply 16206/17/2014

I have a firm belief that America WILL NOT "come back" until a large and vibrant, well-paid manufacturing base returns. The US was strongest when America's middle class was anchored by a largely unionized workforce, earning enough for one income to support a middle class family.

I feel all tax and banking and labor laws must work toward this goal, or else we're doomed to a desperate service-wage economy, which is sinking us all.

by Anonymousreply 16306/17/2014

[quote]I believe the "average" person is waking up to this reality, [R132]. The rejection of this parasitic system will trigger not recovery, but a transformation.

if they will read Hazlitt "Economics in One Lesson" and then Rothbard's "Man, Economy and State" and then graduate to HHHoppe's "Democracy:The God That Failed" then we will have a chance.

If they continue to read Marxist bullshit...they will starve.

by Anonymousreply 16406/17/2014

R132-

[quote]That is not what capitalism brings. It benefits a tiny elite.

So, the capitalism of the last 200 years hasn't brought about major improvement in health, nutrition, education, communication?

[quote]The majority of us scramble to stay afloat.

"Staying afloat" in your air-conditioned apartment with a microwave, flat-screen TV, internet connection, while driving your car to work...wow, your life sucks.

[quote]If you sink, the rancid ideological myth that wealth is there for the grabbing, for all, if you were only less lazy, more go-getting, more ruthless, gets you to beat up on yourself rather than seeing the system as it is.

It looks like the poorest people end up millionaires (or billionaires) more than middle class kids.

Please, shut up before you post something really offensive and stupid.

by Anonymousreply 16506/17/2014

R164 nobody reads "Marxist bullshit" but a few Straussian conservatives. The truth will set you free, which is that service economies are by their nature, tyrannical and oligarchical because the social nature of services consumption severely limits choice.

by Anonymousreply 16606/17/2014

Taxes had nothing to do with American outsourcing. It was all a rush pell-mell to punish Americans during the Clinton year for politically opposing CEO's (close to 100% of whom are fascist) by embracing China and India.

by Anonymousreply 16706/17/2014

R146-

Go FUCK YOURSELF!!!

[quote]releasing 5 Gitmo terrorists for 1 US solider who was a traitor

Behrgdal saw the atrocities being committed by our soldiers- murdering innocent women and children- and walked away rather than participate.

He, like Manning, Assange, and Snowden saw how EVIL our government was, and sacrificed their lives to expose it.

Fuck you.

by Anonymousreply 16806/17/2014

We don't have a free market, but no libertarian has proposed one. Of course, that's because free markets have never worked ever. Not in any country, not in any period in history.

by Anonymousreply 16906/17/2014

This thread has inspired the crazy to come out. Whenever I read "wake up" in an economic argument, I know some unhinged Freeper will be droning on about the Fed, or printing money, or the Trilateral Commission, or the Rothschilds, etc.

I am wide awake, and I thank God for the Fed and their quantitative easing policies!

by Anonymousreply 17006/17/2014

R151-

[quote] - [R146] is blind to the Bush's support of terrorist like Hitler. What a sicko.

The morons that refuse to read the history of the Bush, Gore, Geithner, Obama, and Clinton families and the deep ties to the the OSS/CIA make me sick.

by Anonymousreply 17106/17/2014

I think the US will always fail to live up to its potential as long as the Fox Tabloid News channel is treated as a legitimate news channel. Once our leaders start seating the Fox employees with the National Enquirer reps in the White House briefing room, and stop giving interviews to these same employees, the better it will be for the Republic.

by Anonymousreply 17206/17/2014

How can any country survive when just a few extremely wealthy people run everything, almost every company, the media, own our politicians on both sides and accumulate their wealthy from the blood, sweat and tears of almost all the rest.

How can any country survive when there are so many including young children, sick elderly and disabled living in extreme poverty, going hungry or even living with no roof over their heads.

No, America is over unless there the poor and middle class start to fight back and there is a true revolution.

by Anonymousreply 17306/17/2014

[quote]a regulatory environment that discourages new entrepreneurs...

That is complete gibberish!

You think Google, Amazon, and that latest Dunkin' Donuts on your block were strangled by regulations? Yeah, me too!

by Anonymousreply 17406/17/2014

R166-

I hope you're taking the piss-

[quote] - [R164] nobody reads "Marxist bullshit" but a few Straussian conservatives.

Leo Strauss, the father of Marxist Neoconservatism? Calling him a "conservative" is laughable. He is the epitome of socialist fascism. You obviously know less than zero about political history or economics.

[quote]The truth will set you free, which is that service economies are by their nature, tyrannical and oligarchical because the social nature of services consumption severely limits choice.

Non sequitur absurd dumb much? The preceding sentence makes more sense than what you shat out.

Why is the US a service economy? Maybe because the regulatory and tax system made it easier to "offshore"?

My companies pay around 3-16% in other countries. Compared to US corporate tax rates...well, only a fool would pay such taxes. Of course I can't bring that cash back to the US or I would face a bullshit IRS bill, so it stays offshore. IBM, Apple, Pfizer, Microsoft and FUCKING GENERAL ELECTRIC all are headquartered overseas to avoid the high US taxes. There are hundreds more, some multi-billion dollar brands.

Your ignorance and prejudice makes you stupid. Learn about how our tax and regulatory system is killing the USA, then come back. Read some Mises, Rothbard, Hazlitt, Hoppe and then come back when you can discuss it like a man.

What a Dumbassmuthafukincoksukintool you are.

by Anonymousreply 17506/17/2014

R169-

Ron Paul. Game over you moron.

by Anonymousreply 17606/17/2014

R170-

When those Federal Reserve QE policies push gas to $10/gal and bread to $5/loaf...well, you will still be sucking Yellen's clit and BEGGING the government to DO SOMETHING...even though they are the cause of your penury.

You're too ignorant of economics to even know how stupid and ignorant you are.

by Anonymousreply 17706/17/2014

That's complete and utter bullshit R175 (and masks the fact that China wouldn't let you take the money out anyway). NOBODY makes location decisions based on tax rates. You're just a liar, and a not very bright one at that. Chances are a dog could run your business better than you can.

by Anonymousreply 17806/17/2014

R173-

[quote]How can any country survive when just a few extremely wealthy people run everything, almost every company, the media, own our politicians on both sides and accumulate their wealthy from the blood, sweat and tears of almost all the rest.

Short answer- it can't. Both parties are controlled by banksters, media oligarchs, the NSA/CIA, the military contractors...in short, we are FUCKED until we decentralize. Dissolve Washington DC, return ALL powers to the states, withdraw all military form overseas, and return to a gold standard.

[quote]How can any country survive when there are so many including young children, sick elderly and disabled living in extreme poverty, going hungry or even living with no roof over their heads.

Well, a corporate controlled medical system (in tandem with their supposed "regulators") creates a sick culture.

[quote]No, America is over unless there the poor and middle class start to fight back and there is a true revolution.

Yes. That's why you should start reading the works of Mises, Rothbard, Hazlitt, Hayek, etc. so you can see how drastic reduction in government power will help the bottom 90% while destroying the power of the 0.1% that control our government and media.

by Anonymousreply 17906/17/2014

Bribes and infrastructure duplication to compensate for poor local service more than wipe out that tax differential. Not to mention fairly stiff personnel and technology sharing demands by these foreign countries, who view you as a means to build up their own industry, not to make you profitable. Outsourcing has been a money loser for most American companies that have done it.

by Anonymousreply 18006/17/2014

R178-

Tell that to the French celebs who have moved to other countries to avoid the new taxes.

Do you think Pfizer and GE and IBM are headquartered offshore in low tax countries because of the sunshine?

Surely you aren't that stupid...but, this IS datalounge, where economic ignorance and stupidity are badges of honor.

by Anonymousreply 18106/18/2014

R178-

CHINA? Who mentioned China?

They are in the USVI, Bermuda, Monaco, etc. anywhere the corporations taxes are low to zero.

China! Really?

by Anonymousreply 18206/18/2014

R180-

Tell that to IBM.

by Anonymousreply 18306/18/2014

Cray cray!!

by Anonymousreply 18406/18/2014

And you immediately switched to talking about personal tax rates, where the US is low, not high. You take us for idiots, but you are a bald-faced incompetent liar who couldn't run a lemonade stand at a profit.

by Anonymousreply 18506/18/2014

R166, R167, R169, R178 and R180 keeps posting the same bullshit- that a company (like IBM) wouldn't move ops to a country where the tax savings were in the tens of billions each year.

Over the last few decades IBM, APPLE, PFIZER, etc. Have saved over 2 trillion dollars by having HQ outside the USA.

by Anonymousreply 18606/18/2014

You would need a public-private partnership to help pay off the international debt? Can't see big business going for that, so wealth will continue to be concentrated among the wealthy few (until bombs start going off within our borders, and the U.S. then becomes vulnerable for an attack, just like Iraq). Not seeing a good endgame for the U.S. Too much greed at top, reinforced by our government.

by Anonymousreply 18706/18/2014

They have not SAVED $2 trillion dollars by having headquarters outside the USA, that is the amount of cash they are holding outside the USA because that's where they located their manufacturing and China and Malaysia would nationalize their assets if they moved it.

by Anonymousreply 18806/18/2014

Pretty much all of their tax code gaming is illegal. An example was the company selling glass to the WTC who planned to ship it from Pennsylvania to China to be cut and then shipped back around the world to New York to be installed. Why? So they could park all their profits in China illegally. But it was not an economic decision, it was an acounting decision and a blatant fraud scheme. The only reason companies have been doing this is that enforcement of the laws regarding transfer pricing has been weak to non-existent.

by Anonymousreply 18906/18/2014

The one percent want you to believe that NOTHING CAN BE DONE to stop the rich and multinationals from moving around money and investment. That's not true. If the government enforced the laws, none of this would happen.

by Anonymousreply 19006/18/2014

R185-

Huh?

All of this has been about corporations and taxes.

by Anonymousreply 19106/18/2014

R188-

They are not HQd in Malaysia or China.

The trillions are kept out of the USA due to the +/-35% tax they would pay.

Please quit embarrassing yourself by talking about an issue you know nothing about. I have offshore businesses. I know what tax rates are. I know how expensive (depending on how the accountants and lawyers could "massage and twist" the tax code) so please get a job, save a few bucks, and buy a fucking clue.

by Anonymousreply 19206/18/2014

The only reason they can is the government allows them to R192.

by Anonymousreply 19306/18/2014

I know more about than you R192. Not one of these companies has ever saved a dime by offshoring their profits. It is MADNESS, plain and simple.

by Anonymousreply 19406/18/2014

You say, they wouldn't do it if they weren't making money, and yet we see the evidence every day that their decisions are not founded on money, but on power and control.

by Anonymousreply 19506/18/2014

R189-

[quote]Pretty much all of their tax code gaming is illegal.

No, it is only illegal if it breaks the law. The big banks and military suppliers and mega corporations have thousands of lawyers and lobbyists that get special treatment since they donate billions to the political parasites in DC. It's only illegal if you don't have enough "friends in high places" to protect you.

[quote]An example was the company selling glass to the WTC who planned to ship it from Pennsylvania to China to be cut and then shipped back around the world to New York to be installed.

In a rational, normal, legal, SANE system...why would they feel the need to do that? Because the taxes and regulations in the US are so high!

[quote]Why? So they could park all their profits in China illegally.

Uhhhh, it's not illegal.

[quote]But it was not an economic decision,

That is the stupidest thing anyone has ever posted anywhere on the internet. OF COURSE it was an economic decision! They could make millions by using the Byzantine US tax code!

[quote] it was an acounting decision and a blatant fraud scheme.

No, it was an economic decision. Social Security is a fraud- you old fuckers get more than you paid in, while us young people are paying FAR more than we will get.

[quote]The only reason companies have been doing this is that enforcement of the laws regarding transfer pricing has been weak to non-existent.

No, it's because the tax and regulatory system in the USA is fundamentally broken. Cut taxes. Cut regulations. Give corporations amnesty to repatriate money tax free. That's the only way our country is going to survive.

However, if it means envious, jealous, hateful morons like you will starve and die...i couldn't do it. Too many innocent people would suffer. Maybe they will just refuse to do business with you and watch you starve while your Marxist fantasy falls apart. It would serve you right.

by Anonymousreply 19606/18/2014

R190-

[quote]The one percent want you to believe that NOTHING CAN BE DONE to stop the rich and multinationals from moving around money and investment. That's not true. If the government enforced the laws, none of this would happen.

The 1% rock. We make everything that makes modern life possible.

The 0.1%, or maybe even the 0.05%--- they use the government to enrich themselves at our expense.

I've never taken a dime from the government - even my college scholarship.

People like you that love to suck government cock and worship at the altar of their toilet...you are the sick ones.

by Anonymousreply 19706/18/2014

R193-

[quote]The only reason they can is the government allows them to [R192].

DINGDINGDINGFUCKINGDING.

FINALLY! You took the first step, admitting that THE GOVERNMENT is the entity that is evil and out of control!

Congrats!

by Anonymousreply 19806/18/2014

I've taken less from the government than your lying ass R197, I guarantee it. The government is not evil. The government is US.

What has corporate tax rates comparable to the US? Japan 35.64%. Germany 29%.

Of course most US corps don't pay any tax so the effective tax rate in the US is much lower than in any of these other countries. Why? Because all you have to do to save taxes in America is blow money on executive bonuses, DO insurance, and fancy trips.

None of those countries has seen the kind of rush to get rid of jobs the US has. Governments can stop these kinds of corporate malfeasance.

by Anonymousreply 19906/18/2014

[quote]When China dumps a few trillion in worthless UST bonds and crashes the dollar...the US will be the newest third world country.

Contrary to your scary hyperbole, US debt is largely held by Americans.

The Chinese have acquired some, perhaps 8% or so, but we'll be just fine with or without them, and they do not have this power over us. If they get too feisty, the US can and should restart imposing tariffs on Chinese goods. Problem solved.

by Anonymousreply 20006/18/2014

R198 has posted dozens of comments here. They all go something like this:

Declare a countrywide economic disaster, and blame it on Obama, without any acknowledgement that Obama has had to dig us out of the collapse that occurred in the Bush administration, which was caused by they very kind of policies that are generally aligned with those of the poster himself.

Announce a conspiracy, like the unemployment rate is actually double what's reported, or the inflation rate is double what's reported, or something else he saw on Fox or on another tabloid station or pamphlet.

Predict the end of civilization, like Chinamen selling all their bonds; or the Fed printing excessive money; or Jews eating Christian babies.

Attempt to establish is credentials as a know-it-all, by bragging about his imagined success, all at his own doing, without anyone else's help whatsoever, lacking humility, grace and gratitude, not to mention likability.

Tell everyone reading the post that they must "wake up", that they know nothing of economics, and that they are generally stupid, or worse.

Ok, now I see it. Only now do I truly see it. This is the voice if Fascism.

by Anonymousreply 20106/18/2014

Something like 40% of the total national debt is held by the Fed.

by Anonymousreply 20206/18/2014

Which means if we nationalized the banks it would disappear.

by Anonymousreply 20306/18/2014

The US will never recover in terms of a strong working class. Those days are gone forever. The US will increasingly become a haven for the ultra rich of the world. Those workers who remain in the US will do as they are told and accept ever more meager pay. The primary reason for the increase of super wealthy United Statsians, will be due to its superior military strength to protect the assets of uber rich. Think of a very large Monaco with military strength.

by Anonymousreply 20406/18/2014

"The wind blows, the sea flows, and nobody knows."

Thanks to my friend Chuck in OK for the words of advice.

by Anonymousreply 20506/18/2014

The defeatism of R204 is what has to be guarded against.

by Anonymousreply 20606/18/2014

Recover from what, OP?

by Anonymousreply 20706/18/2014

The Biggest Company Yet to Ditch the U.S. for Tax Reasons

The Fiscal Times reports:

Whhat Happened: Another huge merger in the health care sector driven, at least in part, by tax considerations. Medtronic, the world’s largest stand-alone maker of medical devices, has agreed to buy rival Covidien for $42.9 billion in a cash-and-stock move that will also allow the company to lower its overall tax burden by officially incorporating in Ireland.

The combined entity — to be named Medtronic plc – will have 87,000 employees in more than 150 countries. It will continue to have operational headquarters in Minneapolis, but will shift its executive base to Ireland, where the main corporate tax rate is 12.5 percent, far lower than the 35 percent nominal corporate tax rate in the U.S. Covidien has U.S. headquarters in Mansfield, Mass. but has been officially domiciled in Ireland since 2009.

Why It Matters: The merger is yet another example of U.S. companies relocating their headquarters to countries with lower tax rates — a tactic known as “tax inversion.” More than 40 companies have officially moved abroad or developed plans to do so, including 14 since 2012, according to Bloomberg. Medtronic would be the biggest yet.

--1-0

Good for them, they are being responsible to their shareholders.

by Anonymousreply 20806/18/2014

R1 is right in this case.

We never will.

The GOP have done a number on this country, and have basically mortgaged and even destroyed our future.

by Anonymousreply 20906/18/2014

R211-

Blindly blaming the GOP while ignoring the high crimes of the Dems just shows your ignorance.

If Obama was a Rethuglican you would be calling him a psycho war criminal (which is true) but that would mean opening your eyes to his crimes.

by Anonymousreply 21006/18/2014

[quote]the u.s. does not need to "recover." It's still the best country to live in in our sick world of hate and war and don't you ever fucking forget that you goddamn fascist loser. stop criticizing.

R152 sounds like some yokel Dubya fan who hasn't been 50 miles beyond Podunk.

While I've been to some countries where conditions are horrible, I've also worked in countries where people have it much better than we do.

by Anonymousreply 21106/18/2014

Hopefully, you gals will continue to take your medications, and hopefully, someday, you will all recover.

by Anonymousreply 21206/18/2014

Boy -- R214's penis sure did tell us!

by Anonymousreply 21306/18/2014

Hello, r212, make up some more crazy shit.

by Anonymousreply 21406/19/2014

R216-

The fact that you blame ALL of our problems on Rethuglican scum while refusing to see how corrupt and evil the Demoncraps are just shows how ignorant and brainwashed you are.

Both major parties are evil. Wake. The. Fuck. UP!

by Anonymousreply 21506/19/2014

Some are just more evil than others, r217. Any party that embraces gun nuts, warmongers, religious based hate, bigots, kkk, Ayn Rand worship et al has sunk to the bottom.

by Anonymousreply 21606/19/2014

The lesser of two evils is still evil.

Read some Rothbard. Some Hazlitt. Learn some economics. Embrace personal freedom and civil rights.

Quit being a slave to your masters in DC.

by Anonymousreply 21706/19/2014

I meant to say "quit being a pathetic brainwashed slave to your masters in DC".

by Anonymousreply 21806/19/2014

Scary freakies

by Anonymousreply 21906/19/2014

U.S. drugmaker Pfizer has offered more than $100 billion to acquire its London-based rival, AstraZeneca. Pfizer says it likes AstraZeneca's strong "pipeline" of new drugs. But the American company makes clear it is pursuing the British firm because it wants to lower its tax rate.

All Pfizer has to do is buy the company and move its headquarters to London.

For companies, home isn't necessarily where the heart is — or even where it does most of its business. Sometimes, it's where corporate taxes are lowest.

It used to be easier for companies to keep their legal bases in out-of-the-way places, like Bermuda. It's a practice known as tax inversion, and it was popular until 2004, when Congress changed the law. Now, companies whose ownership is 80 percent based in the U.S. are subject to U.S. taxes.

But tax inversion is coming back in a new form. In the last year, Chiquita, of banana fame, media giant Liberty Global and drug company Perrigo all announced deals to buy foreign companies and shift their headquarters. In each case, it lowered their tax burdens.

"So it's something that is back as a hot thing for some companies to do," says Michael Kirsch, a former international tax counsel for the U.S. Treasury and a law professor at Notre Dame. Kirsch says recent mergers between U.S. companies and foreign firms are aimed at circumventing the restrictions of the 2004 law.

by Anonymousreply 22006/19/2014

A major corporate takeover in the prescription drug industry is motivated in part by a desire to duck billions of dollars in U.S. taxes, the Wall Street Journal reported Monday night. If Pfizer is successful in its bid for AstraZeneca, the combined firm would set up its technical headquarters abroad, slashing its tax liability but still allowing the company to conduct day-to-day operations from its current American headquarters.

Pfizer currently holds tens of billions of dollars in profits offshore to avoid American taxes, a practice so common that total offshored corporate profits hit $2 trillion earlier this year. Acquiring the British firm AstraZeneca and moving the merged company’s tax home to Ireland, the Netherlands, or some other tax haven country “would still allow me to access the offshore funds and do it in a tax-efficient way,” Pfizer’s top financial executive told the Journal.

Corporate accountants have a name for shifting a company’s tax home without modifying its actual operating structure. Known as an “inversion,” the practice has been around for almost twenty years. Companies used to be able to invert at will — in the late 1990s, for example, American heavy manufacturer Caterpillar simply hired an accounting firm to set up a Swiss subsidiary to hide profits from U.S. authorities — but as rules have tightened, inversions have become more and more difficult to conduct. Today, inversions are only possible as part of international acquisitions of the sort Pfizer is pursuing.

That hasn’t dented their popularity across various industries. When Chiquita bought Fyffes earlier this year, it shifted its tax headquarters to Ireland. Less recognizable American corporate names like Perrigo, Actavis, Endo Health Solutions, and Applied Materials have all inverted through international mergers in recent years, and Walgreens is under pressure to invert as well. Most of the largest corporate tax evaders, however, had structured themselves to exploit international tax code loopholes and tax havens prior to any merger.

Companies like Apple, Google, General Electric, and IBM have long used overseas shell companies to shrink their tax bill back home. The practice is entirely legal, exploiting weaknesses in American law and the patchwork nature of the international business tax system. Countries like Ireland, Luxembourg, the Cayman Islands, and the Netherlands engage in a race to the bottom on business taxes in order to lure tax-savvy businesses.Reform proposals discussed in the U.S. and Europe would do little to change that dynamic, and a more radical shift in how corporate sales get taxed around the world might be necessary.

In the meantime, the U.S. will continue to lose between $30 billion and $90 billion to corporate tax practices each year.

by Anonymousreply 22106/19/2014

A major corporate takeover in the prescription drug industry is motivated in part by a desire to duck billions of dollars in U.S. taxes, the Wall Street Journal reported Monday night. If Pfizer is successful in its bid for AstraZeneca, the combined firm would set up its technical headquarters abroad, slashing its tax liability but still allowing the company to conduct day-to-day operations from its current American headquarters.

Pfizer currently holds tens of billions of dollars in profits offshore to avoid American taxes, a practice so common that total offshored corporate profits hit $2 trillion earlier this year. Acquiring the British firm AstraZeneca and moving the merged company’s tax home to Ireland, the Netherlands, or some other tax haven country “would still allow me to access the offshore funds and do it in a tax-efficient way,” Pfizer’s top financial executive told the Journal.

Corporate accountants have a name for shifting a company’s tax home without modifying its actual operating structure. Known as an “inversion,” the practice has been around for almost twenty years. Companies used to be able to invert at will — in the late 1990s, for example, American heavy manufacturer Caterpillar simply hired an accounting firm to set up a Swiss subsidiary to hide profits from U.S. authorities — but as rules have tightened, inversions have become more and more difficult to conduct. Today, inversions are only possible as part of international acquisitions of the sort Pfizer is pursuing.

That hasn’t dented their popularity across various industries. When Chiquita bought Fyffes earlier this year, it shifted its tax headquarters to Ireland. Less recognizable American corporate names like Perrigo, Actavis, Endo Health Solutions, and Applied Materials have all inverted through international mergers in recent years, and Walgreens is under pressure to invert as well. Most of the largest corporate tax evaders, however, had structured themselves to exploit international tax code loopholes and tax havens prior to any merger.

Companies like Apple, Google, General Electric, and IBM have long used overseas shell companies to shrink their tax bill back home. The practice is entirely legal, exploiting weaknesses in American law and the patchwork nature of the international business tax system. Countries like Ireland, Luxembourg, the Cayman Islands, and the Netherlands engage in a race to the bottom on business taxes in order to lure tax-savvy businesses.Reform proposals discussed in the U.S. and Europe would do little to change that dynamic, and a more radical shift in how corporate sales get taxed around the world might be necessary.

In the meantime, the U.S. will continue to lose between $30 billion and $90 billion to corporate tax practices each year.

by Anonymousreply 22206/19/2014

The ONLY reason the jealous countries of the world have not gotten together and brought the US down, which they could easily do, is the Dollar. They just can't wrestle away the global reserve currency thingy, and they are scared shitless about what we might do.

Soon as they manage to do it, we're toast.

That's the bad news, for us. The good news is that they will run the world without royally fucking it up for about a month and a half.

by Anonymousreply 22306/19/2014

A tactic to avoid corporate taxes has U.S. companies on the move—merging with foreign firms and then setting up residence overseas.

On Monday, Michigan-based medicine manufacturer Perrigo agreed to buy the Irish drug company Elan for $8.6 billion. In the bargain, the combined company's headquarters will be in Ireland, which has a corporate tax rate of 12.5 percent, versus 35 percent in the U.S.

by Anonymousreply 22406/19/2014

Donal O'Donovan Published 19/06/2014|02:30

The value of Irish merger and acquisition (M&A) activity more than quadrupled over the past six months to a staggering €65bn.Free

Law firm Arthur Cox has shot to the top of the table for advising on transactions, according to the data prepared for the Irish Independent by Thomson Reuters.

The number of deals being done is little changed.

A handful of big globally motivated deals including those prompted by so called tax-inversion strategies is pushing up the overall value of the market to record levels.

This week's €35bn bid by US medical devices giant Medtronic for Ireland-based Covidian and the €17bn takeover of US- based Forest Laboratories by Ireland-based Actavis – which itself only moved here last year – show the scale of activity.

Critics says such deals have little to do with what is really happening in the Irish economy. They are about allowing corporations to be taxed at Ireland's 12.5pc rate rather than America's 35pc on international earnings, they claim.

However, the need for regulatory approvals, legal due diligence and tax advice means big Irish law firms are riding the merger wave.

"The use of Irish company and securities law is at the heart of these deals, that's really what we can offer," according to Ciaran Bolger, chairman of the M&A practice at Arthur Cox.

His firm has advised on deals with a combined value of €57bn so far in 2014, according to the Thomson Reuters data.

He says the wave of inversion or migration deals only amounts to a handful of transactions. Even if tax is a driver for companies exiting the US the fact that Ireland features so heavily in the trend is about more than just tax, he said.

COMFORTABLE

"Ireland is a common law jurisdiction – like the US – and international investors are very comfortable with the company law regime here."

"Tax obviously also comes into it, so we will be working with our tax team here and with companies' outside tax advisers," he explains.

AL Goodbody, Matheson and McCann Fitzgerald are also represented in the top 10, alongside so called magic circle firms from the City of London, and the top Wall Street legal practices.

Unsurprisingly a raft of firms from the US shifting their corporate address out of the country has been controversial.

Defenders of the deals however argue that companies are doing their job by seeking the best return for investors.

But critics, including influential allies of President Obama in the Democratic Party, claim big firms are using the strategy to avoid tax and costing the US Government valuable revenue.

The chairman of the US Senate's Finance Committee Senator Ron Wyden said this week that he wants to cut the corporate income tax rate there to 24pc. If it happens the migration of US corporations out of the country will end.

According to Ciaran Bolger, the so-called inversion deals are only one element of the wider attractiveness of Ireland to international money, and US investment in particular.

"Ireland will always be an attractive place for foreign capital, whatever form that takes."

He cites the current buy-up of Irish loan books by US private equity houses, as well as traditional foreign direct investment funding expansion here. Even stripping out those globally driven transactions, M&A activity is picking up here, he said.

Government deleveraging – through sales of property and loan assets by NAMA and IBRC, and disposals such as Bord Gais Energy and the National Lottery is a big factor in the market – a reminder that the dynamics in the Irish market are a long way from normal.

by Anonymousreply 22506/19/2014

R227 when is your book coming out?

by Anonymousreply 22606/19/2014

As I said before, pretty much all of this location shopping for tax benefits is illegal and the government could put a stop to it any time they choose.

by Anonymousreply 22706/19/2014

tl/dr I will wait until it's released on audio, for most of the above

by Anonymousreply 22806/19/2014

Thank Obama, OP.

by Anonymousreply 22906/19/2014

R225-

[quote]The ONLY reason the jealous countries of the world have not gotten together and brought the US down, which they could easily do, is the Dollar. They just can't wrestle away the global reserve currency thingy, and they are scared shitless about what we might do. Soon as they manage to do it, we're toast.

Well! the reciprocal yuan/ruble exchanges and the Iran/Russia/China trade deals, coupled with the forthcoming yuan/rupee swaps are scaring the fuck out of the Federal Reserve.

by Anonymousreply 23006/19/2014

R229-

How fascist of you!

It's NOT illegal, and there's not a goddamn thing the government can do to stop it unless they adopt the North Korea model...and we can see how prosperous and happy they are.

Our government is taxing us to death, and creating so many regulations the rich MUST leave in order to protect their wealth.

Too bad your mom's basement isn't a foreign country.

by Anonymousreply 23106/19/2014

It will take decades to recover from the Bush-Cheney regime.

by Anonymousreply 23206/19/2014

It will R234, ITA but they alone are not to blame. It was Clinton who ended Glass Steagall. What happened with the banks in 2008 could never have happened with Glass Steagall in place. Outsourcing big time also began with Clinton.

Clinton was the first Republican lite kind of Democrat that Obama and many other Democrats these days are. Real Democrats are as rare as hen's teeth these days. I mean like FDR and LBJ Democrats. The kind of Democrat Bobby Kennedy was and the kind of magnificent president he would have been. Today we have Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders and Alan Grayson. That's about it. On the most local level like state assemblymen there might be some but not any others that I can think of in the Senate or the Congress and certainly not Obama and not Hillary. Are they the lesser of two evils, yes, of course they are. Will I vote for any Democrat vs. a Republican, of course I will.

But basically it's really it's probably too late. No one is willing to fight anymore. Back in the day when this country was something whites were willing to fight for blacks. The middle class and even some of the wealthy were willing to fight for the poor. Women and straight people fought for gays and gays fought for women's rights and for the poor. The young fought for the elderly fighting for Medicare and Social Security. The elderly cared about the young. People just cared about each other. That ended with Reagan. People took to heart greed is good and hating the poor is even better. It's now been in the hearts of 3 generations. It's ingrained in so many.

This is a country where so many literally cheer those without healthcare dying, the hungry going hungrier, fining and arresting people that feed the homeless and put sharp stakes in any area where the homeless can lay their weary heads for the night.

The way we feel about the poor is the biggest example of a country on decline. That so few are willing to fight for the poor is even more proof. Why, because there is a good chance someday many of them will be in that position and no one will fight for them. Americans have lost the ability to fight back for the most part. To truly fight back we have to be willing not just to fight for what is important in our lives but in the lives of others and that part of Americans has been killed.

by Anonymousreply 23306/19/2014

R234-

And just as long to recover from the Obama-Biden junta.

by Anonymousreply 23406/19/2014

R235-

Why aren't you a libertarian?

You seem to understand that both parties are evil, that the government enriches and protects the elite 0.1% and kills the "little people", and that murder, theft, lying and fraud are morally wrong.

You sound like a libertarian who just hasn't figured out how to break up with The Government.

by Anonymousreply 23506/19/2014

R235- it just hit me- you sound like an abused spouse!

You know your husband (the government) is evil, dangerous, duplicitous and volatile, but you're too scared to leave him!

Please get help. See the link.

by Anonymousreply 23606/19/2014

If you read my post you should realize I have great concern for the poor. What have Libertarians ever done for the poor? Name one thing Ron or Rand Paul, Libertarians have ever done to help the poor? I can list Democrats who have done very much. The point of my post was not to give up on government but for people to care again and to hold so called Democrats or all of those in power accountable, to hold their feet to the fire and demand the government helps those who cannot help themselves for the time being or forever in the case of the poor severely disabled.

First, we, “We the People” have to start to care again, not just about what concerns us but about all…what I said about whites helping blacks, straights helping gays and working people/middle class and even the rich fighting for the poor.

Once that happens (although I have doubts it could ever happen again as selfishness and greed have become too ingrained I still have a glimmer of hope) only then can we begin to force the politicians, the Democrats, to become again the party of FDR and LBJ.

List for me what Libertarians have ever done to help the poor, I don't mean telling them to pick themselves up by their bootstraps for some like the severely or elderly poor have no bootstraps from which to lift themselves as they will need the government to support them for the rest of their lives and maybe I'll think about it.

by Anonymousreply 23706/19/2014

By Robert Ringer

The story of Richard W. Sonnenfeldt, author of Witness to Nuremburg, is one that every person who is concerned about tyranny should read.

Sonnenfeldt fled his German homeland for England at age fifteen when it became clear that Jews were increasingly at risk under the new Nazi regime. After some stranger-than-life twists and turns, he settled in Baltimore, Maryland, at age twenty and became a U.S. citizen.

Sonnenfeldt ultimately ended up in the Army and, at the end of World War II, was one of the soldiers who marched into the Nazi’s Dachau concentration camp. When U.S. troops arrived there, the guard towers were empty, abandoned by Nazi guards who fled when they realized the end was at hand.

Sonnenfeldt could not believe what he saw — unburied corpses piled one on top of another … thousands of emaciated human beings who were barely alive … prisoners beating a German shepherd dog to death in retribution for the way prison-camp dogs had terrorized them. As he stared at the horrors before him, he thought to himself that he was one of the luckiest people in the world to have escaped the fate of the millions who were tortured and murdered.

Following the end of the war, Sonnenfeldt went on to become Chief Interpreter for the OSS group that evolved into the American prosecution team at the 1945 Nuremberg War Crimes Trials. He later wrote about his revealing conversations with Hermann Goering and other principal Nazi war criminals in his autobiography Mehr als ein Leben.

Sonnenfeldt’s story reminded me once again that genocide is woven into the fabric of human history, usually carried out by power-addicted tyrants who are masters at lying and demonizing a targeted group. In the case of Adolf Hitler, he preached that the Jews were the cause of all of Germany’s problems, and his baseless assertion ultimately became accepted by the masses.

Early on, of course, few people took Hitler seriously, and many laughed at his maniacal speeches. But those who believed he was just some clueless kook soon found out differently.

CONT

by Anonymousreply 23806/19/2014

Hitler clearly understood that in order for dogma to become entrenched, it must find its way into mainstream print. And, in this vein, an essential step in the transformation of an insidious lie into fact is to make certain it appears in children’s textbooks.

Through his character Winston in 1984, George Orwell said: “If all records told the same tale ─ then the lie passed into history and became truth. ‘Who controls the past,’ ran the Party slogan, ‘controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.’”

In other words, given enough repetition and time, a fable like the Holocaust denial could someday pass into the history books as fact. That’s why General Eisenhower ordered pictures taken of the Nazi prison camps when he arrived, because he was afraid, even at that time, that there would be a movement to deny it ever occurred.

But things are different in 21st century America, right? Indeed they are. It’s much easier to spread a preposterous lie in today’s high-tech world than it was in the World War II era. Big-government cheerleaders on the Internet and television have round-the-clock access to the masses, and they understand the power of repetition.

As a result, in today’s lie-a-minute, twenty-four-hour news cycle, separating illusion from fact is not an easy task, even for the most alert and rational among us. It takes a great deal of conscious effort. And when too many people choose not to make that effort, a holocaust — actual or metaphoric — may be just over the horizon.

In Rights of Man, Thomas Paine said:

“Ignorance is of a peculiar nature; once dispelled, it is impossible to re‑establish it. It is not originally a thing of itself, but is only the absence of knowledge; and though man may be kept ignorant, he cannot be made ignorant (my emphasis). … It has never yet been discovered how to make a man unknow his knowledge.”

True, to be sure. But what Paine did not tell us is how to motivate people to become knowledgeable in the first place.

As I watch the Washington Propaganda Machine accelerating its pace for spewing out the most preposterous lies imaginable, I am reminded of Eric Hoffer’s warning that the louder the drums of deceit, the more vigilant one has to be about learning the facts. And therein lies the problem. A significant portion of the populace is totally uninformed, and it comprises the very people who decide the winner of every election!

Is it just me, or is there something fundamentally wrong with our system of electing public “servants?” The reality is that the winner of virtually every election is the candidate who convinces a majority of voters that he can get them more goodies his opponent. The idea that there are opposing parties in Washington is a giant fiction — at least when it comes to the premise for government’s existence. The only legitimate function of government is to protect our lives and property — not intrude in our lives and take our property in order to gain our neighbors’ votes.

Sometimes I think Thoreau had it exactly right. That cabin in the woods sounds awfully good right now to those of us who want only to be left alone to live our lives without others imposing their beliefs on us.

ROBERT RINGER is a New York Times #1 bestselling author who has appeared on numerous national radio and television shows, including The Tonight Show, Today, The Dennis Miller Show, Good Morning America, ABC Nightline, The Charlie Rose Show, as well as Fox News and Fox Business. His books include Million Dollar Habits: 10 Simple Steps to Getting Everything You Want in Life and To Be or Not to Be Intimidated?: That is the Question

To sign up for a free subscription to his mind-expanding daily insights, visit www( dot) robertringer (dot) com

Copyright © 2014 Robert Ringer

by Anonymousreply 23906/19/2014
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