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Is a pat on the bum sexual assault?

A woman in Toronto Canada is crying 'sexual assault' after the mayor of Toronto gave her a pat on the bum at a party.

So is it sexual assault?

by Anonymousreply 8809/26/2013

OP, context darling, context.

by Anonymousreply 103/09/2013

Well, I guess it could be considered a form of "Surprise Anal."

by Anonymousreply 203/09/2013

R1 you can't read the OP post?

It is quite clear

by Anonymousreply 303/09/2013

Yes. Anyone in a professional setting, OR any public servant, is expected to keep their hands to themselves.

by Anonymousreply 403/09/2013

You need a picture of Rob Ford to complete the picture.

by Anonymousreply 503/09/2013

Academy Award winning actor Jeremy Irons, recently told Britain’s Radio Times that too many bored politicians have gone overboard with political correctness. According to him, any self-respecting woman should be able to deal with a little pat on the ass without needing to run to the big bad boss man and shouting sexual harassment.

“I hope it’s a rash that will wear itself out.If a man puts his hand on a woman’s bottom, any woman worth her salt can deal with it. It’s communication. Can’t we be friendly?”

by Anonymousreply 603/09/2013

If you, regular Joe, snack my ass at a party, I might be offended, but not much is likely to come of it (unless I'm drunk and you're hot).

But people in positions of trust or authority are held to a higher standard.

by Anonymousreply 703/09/2013

In what we think might be one of the worst rulings ever, a judge ruled that a pat on the butt is not "forcible touching" and therefore, it's pretty much LEGAL.

Fabric store employee Mohammed Nuruzzaman was charged with forcible touching, third degree sex abuse, and second degree harassment after allegedly touching a female customer's butt - without her consent - last November. However, Criminal Court Judge Richard M. Weinberg broke out The New Oxford English Dictionary to say that patting was okay.

The word "forcible" connotes something "done by force, vigorous and strong and powerful." To pat is to "touch quickly and gently with the flat of the hand."

A pat on the buttocks, regardless of how offensive it might be to the recipient, does not qualify as forcible touching.

Plus, Judge Weinberg stated that the patting didn't "gratify sexual desire," so he threw out the sexual abuse charge.

by Anonymousreply 803/09/2013

The vibrating is coming from INSIDE THE ASS!

by Anonymousreply 903/09/2013

When it's from the talking wall of obesity and fat that is Rob Ford, it's genocide.

by Anonymousreply 1003/09/2013

It's simply assault, not sexual assault.

by Anonymousreply 1103/09/2013

If a pat on the bum is sexual assault, then almost every athlete will be rounded up.

by Anonymousreply 1203/09/2013

R11 read R8

by Anonymousreply 1303/09/2013

[quote]Fabric store employee Mohammed Nuruzzaman was charged with forcible touching, third degree sex abuse, and second degree harassment after allegedly touching a female customer's butt - without her consent - last November. However, Criminal Court Judge Richard M. Weinberg broke out The New Oxford English Dictionary to say that patting was okay.

But if she turned around and slapped him it would be assault and decidedly forcible.

by Anonymousreply 1403/09/2013

There's quite a lot more context, R3.

by Anonymousreply 1503/09/2013

Anyone who thinks yes is a fucking idiot. Seriously.

by Anonymousreply 1603/09/2013

My Aunt Ida always said a good pat on the ass beat some generic thank you any day of the week. It made you feel special.

by Anonymousreply 1703/09/2013

"Anyone who thinks yes is a fucking idiot. Seriously."

If someone did that to a kid you'd all be bitching and moaning about "sexual abuse."

Women can handle a pat on the butt, but kids can't?

by Anonymousreply 1803/09/2013



by Anonymousreply 1903/09/2013

When did Jeremy Irons say that, R6? A consistent report from women during the Jimmy Savile investigations is that the BBC work place was such that ass patting and even more intrusive and aggressive sexual overtures and innuendo were a commonplace occurrence. And the expectation was that female employees should have to deal with it otherwise they were not part of the team or spoilsports or worse. Of course, advancement was predicated on accepting such "friendly" overtures. Irons is only half correct in saying it's "communication"; it's the conveyance of power and dominance.

by Anonymousreply 2003/09/2013

Uh, no. Kids get pats on the butts all the time.

I have no idea why anyone is upset or finding this even remotely controversial.

Unless his hand [italic]lingered[/italic] and [italic]caressed[/italic] ... a pat isn't sexual.

In fact, pats on the back during a hug DEFINE non-sexual hugs. A pat on the ass is what straight coaches give their straight players. It's what parents give their children. It's the very definition of [italic]non-sexual[/italic].

Seriously, what the hell is wrong with you people?

by Anonymousreply 2103/09/2013

It's completely inappropriate and obnoxious, and could you fired almost anywhere. It qualifies as harassment. But "assault" it is not.

by Anonymousreply 2203/09/2013

R22 must be a blast at parties.

by Anonymousreply 2303/09/2013

For R20

by Anonymousreply 2403/09/2013

It totally depends.

by Anonymousreply 2503/09/2013

Time that men such as Jeremy Irons got a bum steer

Men have always been fixated with women's bottoms - but touching them is wrong.

Jeremy Irons has kindly stepped in to the breach to remind us it is, after all, the silly season, rather than some yob apocalypse. In an interview with the Radio Times, the 62-year-old actor has sportively declared that "any woman worth her salt" should be able to take a pat on the bottom with good humour. Such a gesture, he maintains, is nothing more than a chap indulging in "communication".

Quite so. And what it communicates is the message: "I am a tragic, soon-to-be pensioner having a belated mid-life crisis."

Still, given that Irons is currently gracing our screens as Rodrigo Borgia, the dissolute 15th-century pope, we should be grateful he is restricting his excesses to the occasional bout of cheek-cupping rather than, say, keeping orgasmic score at a chestnut-fuelled orgy.

Over the years, Irons has gained a bit of a reputation for provocative behaviour and pronouncements. "I'm a very tactile person, but it gets me into terrible trouble," he said after being photographed in an embrace with Patricia Kaas, a French singer - which he claimed was a goodbye kiss between friends.

Patricia's not the only one. Irons has also been photographed clutching Sienna Miller's hip, while gazing mistily into her cleavage (see above). Happily for Miller, she didn't turn her back on him.

Still, the actor is by no means alone in his penchant for the female backside. Handsome haunches have long been something of a British fixation. No saucy seaside postcard is complete without a rump as ripe as a female baboon's, just as no Carry On movie was deemed a hoot without a flash of Windsorian flesh.

It was not the bride's fetishistic triangular bosom that captured Blighty's imagination during the recent Royal wedding, but her sister's peachy derriere. As rioting fills the news, remember that the bottom-brandishing streaker, rather than the looter, is the more customary, er, face, of the long, hot summer revolt.

The Greeks had a word for a buttock fixation - or, rather, 18th-century Britons decided that the Greeks had a word for it. Almost three centuries before Beyoncé boasted herself "bootylicious", one with an ample behind might have best been described as "callipygian". The adjective was derived from the statue of the Venus Kallipygos, in which a partially draped beauty raises her robes, glancing behind her to assess the perfection of her assets. This sculpture was believed to be inspired by the tale of two Syracusian sisters whose unsisterly rivalry over their impeccably shapely hinds won them moneyed matches. The remaining Miss Middleton, take note.

But whatever the term, a chap cannot go about man-on-woman handling. This behaviour may be acceptable in thespian environs as a camp affectation. In the real world, though, it is regarded less as "communication" than sexual assault. Where debs once said a suitor was NSIT ("not safe in taxis"), their great-granddaughters declare "lawsuit".

Less elaborate strategies to deal with men of Iron's ilk vary. As a bullish ally who battled through workplaces awash with such Mad Men tactics breezes: "I'd have cupped the swines' testicles, only they'd have enjoyed it."

I concur with a woman who regularly risked the Tokyo metro, where gropers would skulk safe in the rush-hour scrum: zero tolerance, name and shame. Grasp said paw and thrust it into the air while crying in ringing tones: "This man just molested me." Follow up with a picture on one's phone. Maulers soon slither away.

by Anonymousreply 2603/09/2013

Nobody seems to have read the article at R15. The woman is a past political (and possibly future) rival for the mayor's office. This party was professional engagement. He made sexual innuendo prior to this by saying she should have been on vacation with him because his wife wasn't there (in FL). They were posing for a picture she alleges that he grabbed her ass.

The picture in question is in the article. Ford looks lit and has a huge stain on the front of his shirt.

I guess this is the context.

by Anonymousreply 2703/09/2013

[quote] because his wife wasn't there (in FL).

Ford's press secretary has issued a statement saying Mrs. Ford was with her hubby in Florida.

by Anonymousreply 2803/09/2013

[quote] Ford looks lit and has a huge stain on the front of his shirt.

Unfortunately that really isn't unique. It could be Tuesday morning and not a party night. Rob Ford is a hog.

by Anonymousreply 2903/09/2013

She should have told him before so she didn't have to tell him THEN.

by Anonymousreply 3003/09/2013

[quote]Ford's press secretary has issued a statement saying Mrs. Ford was with her hubby in Florida.

Even worse. He might have been trying to get her there under subterfuge for a threesome. Per DL Mrs. Ford is reputed to be a closeted dyke, no?

by Anonymousreply 3103/09/2013

[quote]Seriously, what the hell is wrong with you people?

No, what the hell is wrong with YOU, R21? There is no reason AT ALL for anyone to be touching the body parts of people they are not in a relationship with or related to (family). NONE. In a professional environment, handshakes and/or a pat on the back are the only appropriate bodily contact....nothing else. If you don't know that by now, you must be very young and have never held a real job, or very old and are living in some throwback "Mad Men" fantasy.

R22 is correct, a pat on the ass is sexual harassment, not assault. If your boss does it he won't get arrested (he would for "assault") but he will get a warning from HR. If he does it again, he'll get fired.

by Anonymousreply 3303/09/2013

R33 probably calculates each pat on the ass at $10,000 per pat. If it is a family member triple damages are expected.

Case. Closed.

by Anonymousreply 3403/09/2013

r33, you've never played sports, I presume?

by Anonymousreply 3503/09/2013

Oh fuck that was at a party, only an old prude would call it sexual harrassment.

by Anonymousreply 3603/09/2013

anyone else?

by Anonymousreply 3703/10/2013

I am not a fan of Rob Ford at all, I can't wait until the next election to give him the boot, but I call B.S. on her story. Thompson iis erratic and was at best a fringe candidate for mayor. At the same event, after the alleged incident took place, she told two other people about it and said she was going to go back to Ford and try and get him to repeat what he did only this time for the cameras so she'd have a photo to use in her next campaign.

by Anonymousreply 3803/10/2013

[quote]Unless his hand lingered and caressed ... a pat isn't sexual.

According to the article linked at r15, it wasn't a pat, it was a grab, and in any case, she never called it sexual assault, sexual harassment, or sexual anything. She merely said it was inappropriate, which is true. The sexual assault part came from the shit-stirring OP.

[quote]Ford's press secretary has issued a statement saying Mrs. Ford was with her hubby in Florida.

Irrelevant. The point was that Ford made a lewd remark to Thompson, not that the lewd remark was factual. No one's suggesting Ford's proposition to Thompson was serious, so it doesn't matter whether his wife was actually on the vacation.

by Anonymousreply 3903/10/2013


Headline from Macleans Magazine

Why Rob Ford should be charged with sexual assault (if what Sarah Thomson says is true)

So is Macleans magazine a (in your words) a shit-stirrer as well?

by Anonymousreply 4003/10/2013

From CityTV News Headline

'Sarah Thomson accuses Toronto Mayor Rob Ford of sexual assault'

So is CityTV also a (in R39 words) a shit stirrer as well?>

by Anonymousreply 4103/10/2013

From Toronto Star (R39)

Q: Does grabbing someone else’s rear end constitute sexual assault?

A: According to Daniel Brown, a criminal lawyer in Toronto, assault is defined as any “unwanted contact.” If that contact is undertaken for a sexual purpose, it is considered to be sexual assault, he said.

So is this lawyer and The Toronto Star (in R39 words) a shit stirrer as well?

R39 do you want me to continue to find more articles referring to this incident as 'sexual assault'?


by Anonymousreply 4203/10/2013

[quote]R39 do you want me to continue to find more articles referring to this incident as 'sexual assault'?

I couldn't care less what you do with your time, r42. Keep at it if it makes you happy.

As to the question of who's shit-stirring, yeah, it is shit-stirring to write, "woman in Canada cries sexual assault," when, in fact, she did not. It is especially shit-stirring to say that here on DL where getting the nelly queens worked up about the perceived evils of women is about as difficult as getting sharks worked up about the scent of blood.

The articles you've linked so far seem to be a mixed bag. Those that state that *Thompson* accused Ford of sexual assault should be more careful with their wording. Those that simply explain why THEY characterize Ford's action as sexual assault are fine, though I don't particularly agree with them.

by Anonymousreply 4303/10/2013

R43 = flip-flop

by Anonymousreply 4403/10/2013

How am I "flip-flopping," r44?

by Anonymousreply 4503/10/2013

R32 eats the massive elephant-sized fecal dump from Rob Ford's gargantuan ass every day.

by Anonymousreply 4603/10/2013

Is it pretty much an open secret in Toronto that Ford is a drug and alcohol abuser? Just by looking at him, I expect him to keel over at any moment. He's got Chris Christie's heft and other issues...

by Anonymousreply 4703/10/2013

anyone else?

by Anonymousreply 4803/10/2013

R4 has said it all. This was uncalled for and unprofessional at the very least. Now look at R5's photo and tell me you wouldn't be pissed too if that sweaty red ox grabbed at you.

by Anonymousreply 4903/10/2013

Anyone who doesn't think that an adult man in a professional setting needs to keep his hands to himself has some major issues. Also, thank you for quoting old Nosferatu horny goat Jeremy Irons; we should definitely use the deluded clown to tell women how they need to feel about unwanted physical contact.

by Anonymousreply 5003/10/2013

Oh, shit. I just looked at the photo. Give him the death penalty.

by Anonymousreply 5103/10/2013

No OP.

by Anonymousreply 5203/10/2013

No one has a right to put his/her hands on you without your permission. That is non-consensual touch and it is a form of dominance assertion to disregard someone's right to determine how, when, or where they are touched.

As individuals in the work place, or in a public setting, it is a basic human right to be treated with dignity and respect. This is a basic human right anywhere, actually, but in a public setting, it is a tacit agreement of society that we do not treat each other disrespectfully or in ways that make one another uncomfortable.

Inappropriate touch is comparable to dogs mounting other dogs, it is not as much a sexual gesture as it is a gesture of dominance. So anyone who thinks this is about a simple love pat is sorely mistaken about how human beings operate.

Shit is obviously pretty fucked up in the mayor's office in Toronto, and the more this is passed off and brushed under the rug, the more it is allowed and condoned and the unspoken subtext of issues like this is that we still, whether subconsciously or consciously, believe that certain groups of people are second class citizens. If you think as a male homosexual that women's issues are not your issues, you are also saying the same thing. It's Orwell's Animal Farm all over again, "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others".

by Anonymousreply 5303/10/2013

[quote] If you think as a male homosexual that women's issues are not your issues, you are also saying the same thing.

Most women who are aware of women's issues that I have met have told me otherwise.

by Anonymousreply 5503/10/2013

Toronto Mayor Rob Ford came out swinging at the former mayoral candidate who accused him of groping her at a recent fundraiser, questioning whether she was “playing with a full deck.”

Sarah Thomson promptly hit back, saying Mr. Ford’s assertions reflected an outdated attitude. “Women used to be called 'hysterical' or 'crazy' when they claimed a sexual assault ... this made many stay silent,” she wrote on her Facebook page. “Toronto Mayor Rob Ford has just done the same to me and in so doing taken us back generations!”

by Anonymousreply 5603/10/2013

it's like the tom brady sexual harrassment video sketch on SNL.

Brady played a guy in his underwear who asked women out; SURE!

Homely Fred Armisen (sp?) STARTED to ask a woman out and she called security.

The announcer v.o. said: "The motto? If you want to harrass, be attractive. Don't be un-attractive."

It's funny 'cuz it's true.

by Anonymousreply 5703/10/2013

[r57]: not really. Most women don't wanna be grabbed be either without their consent. Plus, 99.9% percent of men WILL think they look like Tom Brady.

by Anonymousreply 5803/10/2013

Ford is well known to get nasty when he's drunk. He told a woman to "go get raped in Iraq" when her husband asked him to keep it down at a Leafs game. And the cops have been called to his house for a number of domestic calls. The dude's a bully and a mean drunk.

by Anonymousreply 5903/10/2013

Rob Ford is a pig. But he's specifically an AMERICAN-style pig, which is troubling and disorienting. Pigs in Canada are usually more dopey, hail-fellow-well-met and passive aggressive; stealth-pigs, if you will. This guy's a straight-up antagonistic, disgusting pig, which, in truth, is an American style. It really is a new low for Canada. Better DO something about it.

by Anonymousreply 6003/10/2013

Well said, R53.

R54, here's an old quote that will benefit you as you stumble through life:

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."

by Anonymousreply 6103/10/2013

It's ridiculous...what ever happened to a woman slapping a guy for taking liberties.?

Hell,if I pressed charges every time I got my ass squeezed or my dick felt up in a bar or party...I mean, there ARE other ways to handle minor unwanted contact with out running to tell daddy.

by Anonymousreply 6203/10/2013

But this guy is the MAYOR, R62 - this is an indication that he has poor judgment, and exploits his position. If he's a civilian, slap away.

by Anonymousreply 6303/10/2013

Remember...if you're not my type it's harassment.

If you're's playful,harmless might even get you date.

by Anonymousreply 6403/10/2013

I would hope that, if not, then the very emphatic back-hand he'd get from me would be as lightly considered.

NO man should touch ANY female without their permission. Period. End of story. And I include an expected handshake.

Keep your damn hands to yourself.

by Anonymousreply 6503/10/2013

To compare this man putting his hand on a woman's butt, no matter how briefly, to a butt pat on a child or between football bros is moronic. The relationship of the patter and pattee, and the context are different. It is disturbing to see some posters' tolerance for this sleazy and obnoxious act, and to imply it's all about the $$.

Are you now ok with 50yo male teachers butt patting his 15yo students? Are you now ok with the bum on the street butt patting your sister on her way to work? How many seconds or amount of pressure til the patter crosses the offensive? You say it's such a brief contact, it is benign. Why don't we push the envelope a bit and include the breasts? How about millisecond intentional breast grazing, that ok, too? Breats and butts, they are equally lumps of muscle and fat, right...

by Anonymousreply 6703/11/2013

Exactly, R67, and how about a "harmless" little crotch grab while we're at it?

R66, obviously the same goes for women grabbing and patting men. Gross.

by Anonymousreply 6803/11/2013

Sarah Thomson, the woman who accused Toronto’s mayor of touching her inappropriately at a function last week, said in a radio interview Monday morning that it’s a waste of time to pursue charges against Rob Ford.

“It’s a big waste of time to go through the legal procedures,” Thomson said. “Now, I looked at it and I realized I had no proof.”

Thomson made the comments during an early morning interview with DJs Roz and Mocha on local radio station KiSS 92.5.

When the DJs pressed Thomson for clarification on what she’d advise a female employee in a similar situation to do, she said she would encourage that woman to go to the authorities.

“My advice would be go to the police. And I know everyone is saying that: go to the police,” she said. “I’ve been thinking about it. I’m never saying never.”

Thomson pointed out she puts herself at risk of being sued by making the public allegations against Ford.

by Anonymousreply 6903/11/2013

A guy should NEVER pat a woman on her behind unless he is her boyfriend or husband. And this guy is the Mayor? I think this says a lot about his character, or lack of it.

I don't know if this could rightly be categorized as a "sexual assault", but his behavior was way, way out of line.

by Anonymousreply 7103/11/2013

I wish more people would pat my bum.

by Anonymousreply 7203/11/2013

There's been rumours about Ford using cocaine at public events - specifically at last year's St Patrick's Day - for a while. Thomson specifically mentioning cocaine is an effective shot at him. The mayor kept quiet today. He's going to regret messing with her.

by Anonymousreply 7303/11/2013

In New York it qualifies as sexual abuse.

by Anonymousreply 7403/11/2013

[quote]The picture in question is in the article. Ford looks lit and has a huge stain on the front of his shirt.

That is the more important story. Ford is rumoured to be a coke-head. He is the spitting image of Chris Farley.

Oh and for those who don't think butt-patting is about patting tits? crotch? Would it be okay if some fat freak did that to your mom or sister? No it's not the end of the world but it's definitely not okay.

by Anonymousreply 7503/11/2013

Not sure about the pat on the bum, OP.

But a kiss on the hand may be quite continental...

by Anonymousreply 7603/11/2013

[quote]Would it be okay if some fat freak did that

Oh R75. So liberated and accepting.

by Anonymousreply 7703/11/2013

We're supposed to be supportive of obese molesters??

by Anonymousreply 7803/11/2013

Why does being fat make a difference? Is it worse being molested by a fat person? Is a molester the same thing as a "freak"? Would it be more palatable if the patee was slim and conventional?

by Anonymousreply 7903/11/2013

Whatever it takes to kick this pig out of office

by Anonymousreply 8003/11/2013

Oh, now we have Canadian freepers on this board ?? (See R70)

by Anonymousreply 8103/11/2013

there have always been Canadian freepers - I always see them on the Harper, Trudeau and Canada threads

by Anonymousreply 8203/11/2013

I think it's one very talkative Canadian freeper!

A poster here claimed that the Star and the Globe have been sitting on the cocaine story for months. Wonder if they'll run with it now? Mayor's got to be nervous. If he was buzzed at the party, other people will have noticed and might speak up now.

by Anonymousreply 8303/11/2013

I hate the political correctness that now permeates our society. I teach at a major university, and every two years we have to take sexual harassment training. It is a milestone of piquant absurdity. You can't even LOOK at someone nowadays but that that could be considered sexual harassment.

by Anonymousreply 8403/11/2013


by Anonymousreply 8503/12/2013

Well, well... did we not talk about getting charged with assault for defending yourself?

I wonder if the result would've been the same had it been a, let's say, good ol white christian manly man who got his junk "jokingly" patted by an unmistakably gay dude and got popped in the nose for it...

by Anonymousreply 8603/29/2013

Did he smell his palm afterwards?

by Anonymousreply 8703/29/2013

Ask these guys.

by Anonymousreply 8809/26/2013
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