Let's discuss Tootsie!
I just rewatched the TCM broadcast from last week. Genuinely funny movie. I love how he wants to do the Eleanor Rossevelt story as Dorothy.
I always felt Teri Garr was robbed of the Oscar but now I feel Garr is a little schticky and Jessica Lange really gave a nice lovely sad performance. (Doris Belack really was the Best Supporting Actress in the movie though)
Dabney Coleman kept his beautiful ass covered sadly...it really was a thing of beauty in Nine to Five and that Chevy Chase move wear he took it out.
|by Anonymous||reply 158||01/19/2015|
Although I enjoyed it tremendously when it came out, I never quite got how an unattractive "actress" was permitted to ad lib her way to soap opera stardom. I also wondered why the experience didn't lead to bigger things for Hoffman's character's career. You'd think he'd get a book deal and a run on the talk show circuits after pulling off a legendary showbiz hoax like that.
|by Anonymous||reply 3||03/02/2013|
r3 Character career? Have me met?
|by Anonymous||reply 4||03/02/2013|
As I recall Garr's part was rather small.
|by Anonymous||reply 5||03/02/2013|
I love TOOTSIE, and it's got some of the funniest lines ever uttered on film ("You were a tomato!", "How do you feel about Cleveland?", "You slut."). And I agree with you about Garr. Though she's funny in every scene she's in, it's the same kooky, neurotic blonde schtick she's been doing since her days in sketch comedy -- no great stretch. And it's a superficial role, her character exists simply for laughs and to be the brunt of jokes, but she doesn't really push the story forward -- take the character out and it won't hamper the progression of the story. Jessica Lange's character, however, is the heart of the story. She is the reason Hoffman's character changes from volatile, uncaring actor to sensitive, hopeless romantic, and the way Lange plays it, it's easy to see why he's fallen in love and is willing to change. Her role really is a support[italic]ive[/italic] one as it's pivotal to the progression of the lead's personal story.
|by Anonymous||reply 6||03/02/2013|
Can't you just reminisce about the last Tootsie thread a year and half ago? Another movie was overrated by DL. It's little more than a sitcom, an ancient one at that, but I'm sure this thing will drag on for over 100 posts.
|by Anonymous||reply 7||03/02/2013|
Remember when Kim Fields played Mrs Butterworth on a commercial?
|by Anonymous||reply 8||03/02/2013|
[quote]I also wondered why the experience didn't lead to bigger things for Hoffman's character's career. You'd think he'd get a book deal and a run on the talk show circuits after pulling off a legendary showbiz hoax like that.
It did r3. In the final scene when he waits for Jessica Lange at the stage door and she is so mad she will barely talk to him....she says "you are pretty hot after your big unveiling so what's next for you Michael?"
He says he is going to do Jeff's play with Sandy but the implication is he has a lot of offers.
|by Anonymous||reply 9||03/02/2013|
poor r7...is bitter and jaded.
|by Anonymous||reply 10||03/02/2013|
Lange's intensity and hurt in the final scene where she is signing autographs and sees Hoffman waiting for her is quite beautiful.
|by Anonymous||reply 11||03/02/2013|
Dustin Hoffman and Jessica Lange are both great actors but Tootsie was soooo unbelievably boring. I have never understood its appeal. It is not in the least bit entertaining.
|by Anonymous||reply 12||03/02/2013|
intelligent people don't get bored r12
|by Anonymous||reply 13||03/02/2013|
R4, I didn't mean Dustin Hoffman's career as a character actor. I meant Michael Dorsey's career. I couldn't recall the name so it's no surprise I forgot the reference R9 provided. I only remember the big laugh it got in the movie theater when they cut to the playhouse in a barn with Return to Love Canal, an obvious comedown for the former cover-girl, Dorothy Michaels.
|by Anonymous||reply 14||03/02/2013|
One thing that never made sense was at the very end after Michael Dorsey announces who he/she really is, I would think he'd be in such demand and he wouldn't be able to stand alone on a New York street.
|by Anonymous||reply 15||03/03/2013|
I'm still convinced that Lange got the Best Supporting Oscar as a consolation prize, she was denied a Best Actress for "Frances" that year or the year before. She was good, of course, but it's really just an ordinary "The Girl" role.
Bill Murray was the one who gave a really excellent supporting performance.
|by Anonymous||reply 16||03/03/2013|
Yes r16 it was a consolation prize because she was nominated that same year for Frances and people were voting for M in Sophie's Choice as lead actress so they gave her the supporting one as a way of saying we liked you in Frances too but we have to vote for Meryl.
My point in rewatching it was that she gave a very nice heartfelt performance. I don't know if she'd have won without the double nominations (Glenn Close probably would or at least should have for Garp) but my point was it was very nice work.
|by Anonymous||reply 17||03/03/2013|
[quote] but it's really just an ordinary "The Girl" role.
Hey, what's wrong with just playing "the girl" role!!!!
|by Anonymous||reply 18||03/03/2013|
I was was born to play Tootsie!
|by Anonymous||reply 19||03/03/2013|
R13 Intelligent people also don't make blanket statements about what intelligent people do or don't do.
|by Anonymous||reply 20||03/03/2013|
r20 I was teasing you based on the content of the other thread...no hard feelings
|by Anonymous||reply 21||03/03/2013|
Jeez r20 try to find a sense of humor.
|by Anonymous||reply 22||03/03/2013|
Yes R13 and I was teasing you back. It's all love dear.
|by Anonymous||reply 23||03/03/2013|
R22 How about you let me and my boyfriend R13 handle this. We don't need you interfering in our affairs. We don't do threesomes.
Oh and I found my sense of humor just as I posted my response. I thought my it was hilarious.
|by Anonymous||reply 24||03/03/2013|
I loved Charles Durning in it and when they meet at the bar and he says he should punch him but won't. It was a sweet movie and even the cheesy song was good.
|by Anonymous||reply 27||03/03/2013|
One of my favorite movies of all time, genuinely funny. Hoffman and the whole cast were sublime! I own the movie and watch it once or twice year.
|by Anonymous||reply 28||03/03/2013|
"Michael I beg you, bet therapy!'
|by Anonymous||reply 29||03/03/2013|
I hated when they made her remove her skates. What really happened that season when Kim Fields got so fat? Was she really pregnant?
|by Anonymous||reply 30||03/03/2013|
Director Sydney Pollack is also a hoot as Michael Dorsey's long-suffering agent.
|by Anonymous||reply 31||03/03/2013|
Pollack was such an amazing actor, actually. Love him.
Lange was perfection.
|by Anonymous||reply 32||03/04/2013|
Many times a lead actress (like Jessica in Tootsie) will place themselves in the supporting category to better their chances of winning.
Which was Teri Garr's complaint about losing to Jessica Lange
|by Anonymous||reply 34||03/04/2013|
Jessica played a supporting role. Everyone but Dustin was supporting.
|by Anonymous||reply 35||03/04/2013|
Bill Murray ad-libbed most of his lines. His name owas not on the posters or in any of the press relases, and he did not appear in the trailers. His appearance in the film was a complete surprise until word of mouth got out.
|by Anonymous||reply 36||03/04/2013|
I think it's a terrific film and very funny. All you have to do is see how many alleged comedies are not terrific or funny and you can see that it is about as rare as Haley's comet for everything to align just right.
|by Anonymous||reply 37||03/04/2013|
The only line I felt didn't work was "Being a woman in the 80s is so complicated." Sure, it was directed at Dorothy which made it funny but it didn't seem like something Lange would say.
|by Anonymous||reply 38||03/04/2013|
Some nice on set photos by Mary Ellen Mark, including from "Tootsie".
|by Anonymous||reply 39||03/04/2013|
Yeah, Dabney Coleman had a nice ass. The only time I ever saw him shirtless though was on an episode of "Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman. Nice body.
|by Anonymous||reply 40||03/04/2013|
Was she the fat one or the colored girl who roller skated everywhere?
|by Anonymous||reply 41||03/04/2013|
Michael i begged u to get some therapy!
I gave the chocolates to a girl. So did i, i thought!
|by Anonymous||reply 42||03/04/2013|
[quote] Jessica played a supporting role. Everyone but Dustin was supporting.
The only star in a Dustin Hoffman show....is Dustin Hoffman!
|by Anonymous||reply 43||03/04/2013|
If this movie came out today Jessica Lange would be called fat.
|by Anonymous||reply 44||03/06/2013|
No she wouldn't Jen r44, unlike yourself, she is a beautiful woman.
|by Anonymous||reply 45||03/06/2013|
Watching it again, it is just too unbelievable that no one would've figured out the Dorothy was a man in drag! And the thing about Michael getting away with doing his own makeup at home because of an "allergy", don't they have union rules on the set which wouldn't allow for that? I do enjoy the movie though.
|by Anonymous||reply 46||03/30/2013|
Did someone call for That Girl?
|by Anonymous||reply 47||03/30/2013|
As much as I love Jessica Lange, Teri Garr stole this film outright.
It wasn't too long after Garr's under-appreciated performance as Dreyfuss's wife in "Close Encounters," right?
Teri Garr is one of the greats whose career stalled too long ago...I know she's been ill. God bless that funny and talented woman.
Also, Bill Murray was at his his best as Hoffmann's roommate her. Understated but hilarious
|by Anonymous||reply 48||03/30/2013|
Bi female here - watching "Tootsie" when it came out in the '80s made me aware of feelings for women for the first time. I was 14, and Jessica Lange was just so gorgeous, sexy, and sensitive.
I still really like the film, but does anyone else feel that Lange's line to Dorothy "I love you, but I just can't LOVE you" is rather naff; when Dorothy reveals that he's actually Michael Dorsey, a man, it's now fine for her to waltz off with him into the sunset. Perhaps they could have explored more the theme of falling in love with the person, and not just the gender.
|by Anonymous||reply 49||03/30/2013|
[quote] Perhaps they could have explored more the theme of falling in love with the person, and not just the gender.
We're talking about a mainstream comedy (albeit with a bloke in drag) from the early 1980s. It wasn't an art house film exploring gender issues.
|by Anonymous||reply 50||03/30/2013|
R48 - Agree about Teri Garr.
|by Anonymous||reply 51||03/30/2013|
Meet Teri Garr and you will quickly find out why her career stalled.
"You're nothing like you are in your movies, are you." - David Russell, dismissing her after five minutes. My sentiments exactly!
|by Anonymous||reply 52||03/30/2013|
Teri was fun on Letterman.
|by Anonymous||reply 53||03/30/2013|
God forbid you should lose your standing as a cult failure.
|by Anonymous||reply 54||03/30/2013|
Dorothy looked just like my Aunt Mary....complete with heavy makeup. My aunt work it to cover bad acne scars.
|by Anonymous||reply 55||03/30/2013|
[quote] And the thing about Michael getting away with doing his own makeup at home because of an "allergy", don't they have union rules on the set which wouldn't allow for that?
true r46 that is a reach...having done a few soap appearances in my day I know the wardrobe people are constantly rushing in to fix and primp your clothes and smooth things out, retuck your shirt, fix your hair etc. In reality some wardrobe girl would have accidentally grabbed Dustin's fake boobs inadvertently.
|by Anonymous||reply 56||03/30/2013|
Dabney Coleman nude in Modern Problems is one of the hilights of film history.....any one have a link?
|by Anonymous||reply 57||03/30/2013|
I loved Tootsie! I'm from Syracuse, and being that not much is ever heard about Syracuse other than snow, or basketball it was really fun to hear them talk about my little obscure, rusty hometown. Then when they finally show the Syracuse Playhouse- it's in a barn! So disappointing yet hilarious! Typical of the New Yorker's vision of Upstate.
|by Anonymous||reply 58||03/31/2013|
r. 46 & 56, it's not a reach. Plenty of actors have allergic reactions to stage makeup and either provide their own or do their own makeup at home. It's actually quite common.
|by Anonymous||reply 62||03/31/2013|
That is one nutty hospital!
|by Anonymous||reply 63||03/31/2013|
[quote]Everyone but Dustin was supporting.
I remember back in '82, the Oscar campaign directed at those who claimed Jessica Lange was the movie's leading lady:
"No, Dorothy Michaels is the movie's leading lady."
And yes, you have to suspend disbelief. Forget the people who can feel the stubs on his face, his fake tits, etc. I don't clearly remember, but was the whole SAG membership issue addressed? Was Dorothy's an open audition and then she joined SAG under that name? And what ID did "she" produce when she joined the union?
Actually, I'm a member of Equity and I don't even remember if I had to produce any ID. And since you can join under any stage name, maybe she was given a pass.
|by Anonymous||reply 64||03/31/2013|
Julie Nichols would be considered a coward in the lesbian community nowadays.
|by Anonymous||reply 65||03/31/2013|
Dustin Hoffman's female stand-in for when Michael was Dorothy actually became his full-time stand-in on all of his subsequent movies and also one of his production assistants.
|by Anonymous||reply 67||03/31/2013|
I always thought being a stand-in would be a cool job.
Long hours, you're a step above background, great good, and I bet there are some perks.
I'd like to think stars would be loyal to a good stand in.
|by Anonymous||reply 68||03/31/2013|
It wwasn't half as good as Mrs. Doubtfire.
|by Anonymous||reply 69||03/31/2013|
Plus, you work on a long movie shoot for a few months and with overtime, you might be able to have some free time until the next project begins.
And being in tight with a major star could open some doors for the future.
|by Anonymous||reply 70||03/31/2013|
There are not many stand-ins who have that sort of deal where they're on a weekly contract as opposed to a daily voucher, though. Robin Williams, Jeff Bridges, John Travolta, Matt Damon, Leonardo DiCaprio and Will Smith are the only major stars I can think of. And no women at all have the power to get their stand-ins on a contract. It seems with the guys it's a buddy thing-and, maybe with Travolta, something more.i
|by Anonymous||reply 71||03/31/2013|
but r62...nowadays you need hi-def makeup....I guess back then maybe it was more believable...but it's is just a premise you have to buy to enjoy the movie....let's face it in real life if Hoffman showed up looking like that everyone would say...look there is a guy in a dress and wig...
|by Anonymous||reply 72||03/31/2013|
r64...I don't clearly remember, but was the whole SAG membership issue addressed? Was Dorothy's an open audition and then she joined SAG under that name? And what ID did "she" produce when she joined the union?
He gets the audition just by showing up and saying he forgot his paper work or something like that but that Sydney Pollack is his agent to which the woman from the soap says wow, quite impressiveness.
It is sort of implied that he gets Pollack to take care of the paperwork. (in the Russian Tea Room scene) They must do something illegal because Pollack even as big a deal as he is supposed to be...is still afraid of getting caught at the end when Dorothy's contract is picked up.
|by Anonymous||reply 73||03/31/2013|
Article from back in the day.
|by Anonymous||reply 74||03/31/2013|
R71, yeah, I was thinking the high end, rare cases...I know that the job usually isn't great fun: daily vouchers, sex-starved a.d.'s, long food lines.
|by Anonymous||reply 75||03/31/2013|
[quote]Dabney Coleman nude in Modern Problems is one of the hilights of film history.....any one have a link?
|by Anonymous||reply 76||03/31/2013|
About 20 years ago I worked with a woman who looked like Dustin as Dorothy. I shared a cubicle with a guy who would sing "Something's Telling Me it Might Be You" everytime she walked by.
|by Anonymous||reply 77||04/01/2013|
I agree with the poster who said it was wholly unbelieveable that anyone would not have instantly seen that Dorothy Michaels was a man in drag. Yes, I know movies are about the suspension of disbelief. But when the entire PREMISE of the movie is that a guy is trying to fool people into thinking he is a real woman, well, it just never worked for me. I thought it was a Hoffman vanity project. I did not have one genuine laugh during the entire movie. I "got" it, got what they were trying to do but it never worked for me. I remember all the articles and interviews with Hoffman where he expressed his empathy and support for women and that portraying one "gave him new respect for women," that it made him a better man, etc. etc. Again, it was all Hoffman's vanity project. SEE WHAT A BRILLIANT ACTOR I AM. And, yes, he is in the right role. But this movie was just stupid in so many respects. "America's favorite Tootsie is on a roll." Really? Just looks like Dustin Hoffman in drag to me.
|by Anonymous||reply 78||04/01/2013|
"I was a better man as a man pretending to be a woman than I ever was as a man, blah, blah, blah"
|by Anonymous||reply 79||04/01/2013|
I loved the movie, but wasn't too crazy about Hoffman's interpretation. The stupidest thing a man can do when impersonating a woman is go into a clown-like falsetto. First it's insulting and second it's amateurish, as the falsetto is very limited in range and volume and hardly makes a guy sound like a woman, but more like a guy imitating a woman.
It's much more effective to use your natural upper register and accompany it by female mannerisms, to whatever degree you want your woman to be feminine. Find that range where a man's voice meets a woman's, it's not that hard. Play a tape of a woman talking and join her in her key and octave. I know Hoffman has a pretty deep voice, but it's not "Ol' Man River" deep. And I'm sure even good ol' Paul Robeson would have been able to find a more female sounding upper range.
That's one of the reasons Jack Lemmon was so much better than Tony Curtis in "Some Like It Hot" (other than Mr. Lemmon being one of the greatest actors in the history of Cinema).
And if Alaska Thunderfuck - with her deep bass - can sound like a girl, even Dustin Hoffman can.
|by Anonymous||reply 80||04/01/2013|
Hoffman really loved his character and regretted that he couldn't make Dorothy more attractive.
|by Anonymous||reply 81||04/01/2013|
As a videotaped soap in 1982 or so, wouldn't the hospital show be under an AFTRA contract anyway? Much easier to sidestep that whole membership thing. (just curious)
|by Anonymous||reply 82||04/01/2013|
The cutting edge relevance of DataLounge never fails to amaze me.
|by Anonymous||reply 83||04/01/2013|
Well smell you r83...aren't you just so superior!
|by Anonymous||reply 84||04/01/2013|
true r82 soaps were always under AFTRA
|by Anonymous||reply 85||04/01/2013|
What a fun year for movies. I didn't know Lesly Ann Warren was nominated for V/V. Nominations and winners for 1982 Oscars:
|by Anonymous||reply 86||04/01/2013|
I wonder if Michael and Julie got married.
|by Anonymous||reply 87||04/02/2013|
Leslie Ann Warren was hysterical in V/V.
"Oh, pookie!?" and "I'm horny!" in that horrible nasal accent.
|by Anonymous||reply 88||04/02/2013|
"I wonder if Michael and Julie got married."
No, once she got to know the real Michael she realized he was still pompous, self-absorbed, humorless, and tempermental. He may have improved, but how much can you improve a guy like that.
|by Anonymous||reply 89||04/02/2013|
If the roles in Tootsie had been gender-reversed, who would the actors have been? Say that the lead character was Dorothy Michaels and she had to pretend to be a man (Michael Dorsey) to get a part on a soap, and she fell in love with a male actor on the show, only the male actor thinks our hero is a mo. Instead of Dustin and Jessica, who do we get? From 1982, how about the Keatons, Diane and Michael?
|by Anonymous||reply 90||04/04/2013|
[quote]No, once she got to know the real Michael she realized he was still pompous, self-absorbed, humorless, and tempermental. He may have improved, but how much can you improve a guy like that.
and short too.
|by Anonymous||reply 91||04/04/2013|
R90, Julie Andrews and James Garner, with Blake Edwards direc.... hey, wait a minute...
|by Anonymous||reply 92||04/04/2013|
I'm pretty sure Shakespeare got there first, with a little thing called Twelfth Night.
|by Anonymous||reply 94||06/13/2013|
This is one of my favorite movies. Besides Hoffman (who is most definitely the lead character) this movie has a great ensemble in a very well crafted and wriiten movie.
|by Anonymous||reply 95||06/13/2013|
One of my favorites of its time, mostly for the supporting actors
(which I guess means everyone other than Dustin Hoffman, who is great in this and other films, but never really did much for me).
Teri Garr was perfect; Jessica Lange was adorable; Bill Murray and Dabney Coleman cracked me up, as they do; and Sydney Pollack and Geena Davis stole their brief scenes.
Actually, each one of the supporting actors seemed to steal their respective scenes from Hoffman. That's great acting by them AND him, and above all, very good casting.
|by Anonymous||reply 96||06/14/2013|
The casting is absolutely perfect right down to the guy who says, "How do you feel about Cleveland?" That guy was born to deliver that line.
|by Anonymous||reply 98||06/15/2013|
Southwest General is made of PEOPLE!
|by Anonymous||reply 100||11/09/2014|
Hoffman doing the publicity for this movie gave the greatest performance of his life.
Though I was pretty embarrassed by it.
|by Anonymous||reply 101||11/09/2014|
The DVD extra where he cries about being an unattractive woman who society treats as invisible is either one of the most sincere moments on a DVD, or the best bit of acting anyone ever achieved in history.
|by Anonymous||reply 102||11/09/2014|
Jessica did really well here.
|by Anonymous||reply 103||11/09/2014|
I really enjoyed Tootsie. Once. It was a fun movie. I am shocked that people find it so brilliant. I didn't, at all.
|by Anonymous||reply 104||11/09/2014|
And - probably until the merger with SAG - anybody could join AFTRA, just for the price of initiation and dues, if I remember correctly (same thing with AGMA and AGVA. Please don't anyone ask what AGMA And AGVA are!
|by Anonymous||reply 105||11/09/2014|
I always thought the same thing, r102.
Whatever I love this movie so fucking much. If it's not the greatest American comedy, then certainly (IMO, obviously) it's the greatest comedy movie that is a classic situation comedy. It's a product of Hollywood in the best possible way.
Charles Durning was brilliant in that last scene at the bar. Why was he nominated for The Best Little Whorehouse instead of this I don't know. He should have been nominated for Tootsie and won.
The tomato scene with Sydney Pollack (whom I LOVED as an actor) is probably my favorite scene in a movie, period.
I know they didn't use the term then but Dustin Hoffman as an obsessive, demanding, chauvinist but brilliant actor is no doubt the gold standard for "meta" casting.
Love the movie, always will.
|by Anonymous||reply 106||11/09/2014|
Coming out on Criterion Collection second week in December. Just in time for... well, you know. (Finally, something to ask for).
|by Anonymous||reply 107||11/09/2014|
Off subject but "Safe" with Julianne Moore at her best also out on Criterion next month. Now back to regularly scheduled programming...
|by Anonymous||reply 109||11/09/2014|
One of my favorite movies of all time. There's not a single bad or boring scene in the film. It all works perfectly. And the acting is consistently flawless.
|by Anonymous||reply 110||11/10/2014|
Was this the movie I did with that Moon Frye child?
|by Anonymous||reply 111||11/10/2014|
Jessica Lange is so young and beautiful in this movie!
|by Anonymous||reply 112||11/10/2014|
[quote]Perhaps they could have explored more the theme of falling in love with the person, and not just the gender.
They did, and in a way that was decades advanced from the early 1980s in which it was set.
The very fact that homosexuality wasn't treated negatively was very progressive for the times. Whenever Michael was referenced as possibly gay or Dorothy as possibly a lesbian (the hilarious scene in Sydney Pollack's office is an example of both), its treated with sympathy and attempts at understanding, not as something horrible or played for laughs. Even when it is part of the jokes, it's always the misconception of it (and the utter ludicrousness of Michael as Dorothy still being a straight male underneath it all) that is played for laughs and not just the concept that one might be gay or lesbian.
It was very progressive for its time. It still holds up today.
|by Anonymous||reply 113||11/10/2014|
[quote]Bill Murray ad-libbed most of his lines. His name owas not on the posters or in any of the press relases, and he did not appear in the trailers. His appearance in the film was a complete surprise until word of mouth got out.
I remember the theater audience reacting whrn he first appeared onscreen.
|by Anonymous||reply 114||11/10/2014|
All true r113. Although my favorite line in that whole scene was when Hoffman says "I went to the ladies room and I pissed in the sink I'm in TROUBLE man," - that fucking cracks me up every time.
R114 do you think someone's appearance in a movie could be kept under wraps for that long today? I can't imagine....
So many great things about this movie. Can't be praised enough, IMO.
|by Anonymous||reply 115||11/10/2014|
So I just saw the movie for the first time and I thought it was just ok. Maybe I need time to process but I didn't think there was anything extraordinary except Jessica Lange being so young and pretty. I was quite shocked to learn she WON an academy award for this movie. When I think of Jessica as an actress, I always think of her with an edge but Julie was so innocent and sweet.
|by Anonymous||reply 116||01/18/2015|
I think Glenn Close really should have won the Oscar over Lange--and, if she had, just think what would have happened to countless DL threads! It's like the Butterfly Effect!
|by Anonymous||reply 117||01/18/2015|
Great extras on the Criterion DVD including deleted scenes, almost weird to see when one has the movie memorized (a weird one with the baby grabbing Dorothy's hair and the wig shifting and Lange looking a bit suspicious). Also a long interview with Gene Shalit that could never make the movie -- because he talks about doing his play in Syracuse later and Sandy would've seen.
Best of all.. an early screen test where Hoffman looks completely different, when they were going for sexy-ish. Nice try. With the director at the time, Hal Ashby. Hal Ashby! All this time and I never knew that.
|by Anonymous||reply 118||01/18/2015|
[quote]I think Glenn Close really should have won the Oscar over Lange--and, if she had, just think what would have happened
Perhaps better TV roles?
|by Anonymous||reply 119||01/18/2015|
I've seen this film a dozen times but it was only when I watched it again over the holidays that I noticed Estelle Getty was in the scene where Dorothy dances with Charles Durning.
|by Anonymous||reply 120||01/18/2015|
And I just now noticed, after a million viewings since 1982, that almost every woman watching the show -- and one famously coming up to Dorothy for an autograph and saying how pretty she is (Dorothy gives her a look and then says "You too" or something) -- are all dressed like her, with similar big hairdo and big plastic glasses.
And, somehow, I never noticed Bill Murray was eating a plate of lemons in one scene. Even when he was making sour faces.
The joys of rediscovering films. :)
|by Anonymous||reply 121||01/18/2015|
R119 You mean like yours in "Holocaust"?
|by Anonymous||reply 122||01/18/2015|
Thanks for the info about Bill Murray. He is superb.The film is a sheer pleasure to watch.
|by Anonymous||reply 123||01/18/2015|
I loved this movie when it was released in 1982.
I bought the 25th anniversary DVD, and I was disappointed. The point of the film appears to be that an asshole loser of a man who has destroyed his own career to the point that he can't even get work as a tomato makes a better modern day woman than any woman. Even a woman like Jessica Lange or Teri Garr. Dorothy's an icon! And the nation's role model! Look - on the cover of Time magazine! Even though Tootsie appears to be promoting women's rights, it considers them incapable and contemptible.
The supporting performances of Durning, Dabney, Pollack, and Murray are great though. And Garber and Lange are superb.
|by Anonymous||reply 124||01/18/2015|
There's a shot of him in a BTS special on the Criterion where it looks like Murray is smoking a joint on the set, ha, doubt that would happen so easily today. And I hadn't heard but he took one look at the apartment bedroom set they had created for him and then smashed it into pieces -- on his first day of work. Again, tolerated today? Doubtful.
But Pollack still glows about him and, yeah, most (but not all) of the lines are improvised. His character didn't even exist until a much later rewrite when Elaine May came in; Hoffman fought it, didn't want a roommate at his age, and then pushed Murray for the role.
And, in keeping with my anti-Garr troll rep, she is interviewed and says that May really wrote the part of Sandy and told Pollack that nobody else but Teri could play it -- so, in true Garr form, Garr decided she didn't want it in that case. They had to talk her into it. THAT's the Teri Garr I met, ha. Cold and weird.
|by Anonymous||reply 125||01/18/2015|
"Who is Les and why is he thanking you for a lovely evening in front of the fireplace?"
"My mind is blank."
|by Anonymous||reply 126||01/18/2015|
You couldn't make this film today. Can you imagine the rage from the trans community?
|by Anonymous||reply 127||01/18/2015|
R127 there are LOTS of great films you couldn't make today.
We might as well just have filmmaking by committee.
|by Anonymous||reply 128||01/18/2015|
Oddly enough, "Tootsie" was criticized for being by committee too back then, mostly because of so many writers taking a shot at it (which wasn't the norm at the time). Somehow they pulled together the best of all of them -- Dustin had his own, Sidney had Gelbart, Elaine May uncredited probably did the most.
It looks like an incredibly cohesive work of art compared to filmmaking today, especially a comedy (with a lot of heart).
|by Anonymous||reply 129||01/18/2015|
My favorite line:
Michael Dorsey: "I did sleep with her, she still thinks I'm gay!" Michael's agent: "That's not so good, Michael."
|by Anonymous||reply 130||01/18/2015|
Doris Belak should have been nominated for her role in that movie.
She NAILED Gloria Monty.
|by Anonymous||reply 131||01/18/2015|
[quote]"I was a better man as a man pretending to be a woman than I ever was as a man, blah, blah, blah"
It took Hoffman about 50 takes to get that line out, and if you watch the scene that made it into the film, you can still see him almost stumble over his words.
|by Anonymous||reply 132||01/18/2015|
I've always enjoyed the movie, but Lange's performance has to be the most overrated in cinema history.
|by Anonymous||reply 133||01/18/2015|
It was also a different time in terms of screenplay structure -- where a nice relaxed First Act could play out for 30 minutes so we get to know the characters and set up. These days, he'd be in that dress by page 10.
As for Garr... To paraphrase the great Sandra Bernhard: "Let's go see a woman who will be giving the exact same performance for the next twenty years. But she did it best in 'Tootsie', you must admit."
R133, watch "Frances" and "Tootsie" on a double bill and you'll see why she won, especially at the time. And she has nice small moments like that look of horror when she sees Dorothy in bed with her sans makeup and hair. But, yeah, Close in "Garp" was the best that yet -- and it was a strong year too.
|by Anonymous||reply 134||01/18/2015|
Teri Garr was hilarious as Sandy, but I have to agree with the OP. She's basically doing her usual neurotic girl schtick and her character is very one-note. Walk on, say or do something to make 'em laugh, exit stage left. Lange, on the other hand, has the difficult task of being the straight man among the many flashier characters and still draw you in and make you believe that Julie is the perfect woman for Michael. She's also the more complex character, juggling career, single motherhood, relationships, male chauvinism, etc., all the troubles young working women were facing in the '80s, making her very relatable to female audiences.
|by Anonymous||reply 135||01/18/2015|
Why did Michael's reveal that Dorothy was played by a man allows him out of his contract? You would think that the show would want to keep him on.
|by Anonymous||reply 136||01/19/2015|
The point isn't that Michael is a better woman than genetic women. It is that Michael is a better person when he understands what it is like to be a woman. If anything, it is about how women are better than men.
And, unrelatedly, I hate Jessica Lange in this. She mumbles through the whole thing and seems on drugs and distracted by a shiny object off-camera.
|by Anonymous||reply 137||01/19/2015|
R137 - I thought Jessica was perfect in the role.
|by Anonymous||reply 138||01/19/2015|
The best scenes were with Sydney Pollack, no doubt. I miss him.
|by Anonymous||reply 139||01/19/2015|
I've grown to truly appreciate it over the years (its Shakespearean structure, for example). But I can't say I've ever found it truly funny except for the "You slut!" bit.
|by Anonymous||reply 140||01/19/2015|
Lange's Oscar wouldn't seem so egregious if not for competition (Lesley Ann Warren, Kim Stanley, Glenn Close, Ms. Garr). It's a solid performance, but clearly she won to console her for not winning for her performance in Frances, which is breathtaking, and I would still contend better than Streep in Sophie's Choice.
|by Anonymous||reply 141||01/19/2015|
It was also a "mea culpa" Oscar for doubting her so much and calling her a talentless bimbo in "King Kong". As Fosse put it, "I've never seen anyone go from so cold to so hot so fast" and it's true. She was a big zero for a few years there, her best work being a bad Susan Saint James comedy, and then... She got the last laugh.
|by Anonymous||reply 142||01/19/2015|
Imagine if Pollack was nominated for the Best Director and Best Supporting Actor Academy Awards.
|by Anonymous||reply 143||01/19/2015|
To the notion that Hoffman is not believable dressed as a woman: I think that because we know from the start of the conceit, we cannot be objective. As opposed to other people who do not know and seem to believe him. After all, there are plenty of women who look like men and aren't.
|by Anonymous||reply 144||01/19/2015|
As Fosse put it, "I've never seen anyone go from so cold to so hot so fast"
What about himself from the film of Sweet Charity to Cabaret?
|by Anonymous||reply 145||01/19/2015|
My favourite line is Dorothy's to Ron: Not threatening enough? Listen, you take your hands off me or I'll knee your balls right through the roof of your mouth! Is that enough of a threat?
|by Anonymous||reply 146||01/19/2015|
"I want to make her prettier. How far can you pull back?"
Cameraman: How about Cleveland?
|by Anonymous||reply 147||01/19/2015|
Yeah, maybe he could relate, R145. And he also was part of that rise when he gave her the only decent job she had for years in "All That Jazz" (sure, they were fucking but still... )
Pauline Kael was always (well, often) a fan of hers, even in "King Kong", and I like how she pointed out in "Crimes of the Heart" that Lange has "quite the chasis" to throw around. Back when women could still have some curves.
|by Anonymous||reply 148||01/19/2015|
Tootsie started my lifelong crush on Jessie Lange, though I tried watching AHS and I could not get into it.
|by Anonymous||reply 149||01/19/2015|
One side bar reason why I love this movie so much, and drop everything to watch it whenever its on, is how it nails what the city felt like in the early 80s. I was a kid then and my dad lived on the upper east side and the whole movie just *gets* it.
Dad had a ton of struggling artist, actor, writer friends - many of whom lived in raw spaces like Michael Dorsey and Jeff. I even went to a birthday party very much like the one in the movie (dad's best friend had a big gallery opening and then a party at his place afterwards).
All that aside, I think it's a superb movie.
Also, its funny how the naysayers keep bringing up how in real life NO ONE would've been fooled by a guy in that get up. When in fact Hoffman dressed up as Dorothy and fooled quite a few people in character as before the movie was shot.
|by Anonymous||reply 150||01/19/2015|
Hoffman's woman look also wasn't so unusual for the time.
TV had yet to be all prettified and beautifully lite with only blonde bombshells. There were lots of newswomen and even actresses on TV at the time who were less than glamour girls.
|by Anonymous||reply 151||01/19/2015|
The mainstreaming of drag queens have made everyone familiar with men dressed up as women. Back in 1982, drag queens were invisible outside the almost equally invisible gay scene (which was just about to become visible for all the worst reasons).
|by Anonymous||reply 152||01/19/2015|
Appreciating this movie requires a major suspension of belief. Too major for me. So many people around him—and close to him—didn't know he was Tootsie? Had a hard time with that. It just made everyone look stupid.
This is one of those filmed in NY movies that doesn't feature that many memorable NY locations. That was intentional, though.
|by Anonymous||reply 153||01/19/2015|
Usually I find Hoffman a bit mannered and too NYC for me, but he did make me forget he was a man.
|by Anonymous||reply 154||01/19/2015|
Did people really drink fron jars?
|by Anonymous||reply 155||01/19/2015|
I'd heard that Dustin based Dorothy on this beloved soap actress.
I can kind of see it.
|by Anonymous||reply 156||01/19/2015|
R146 you forgot the best part.
|by Anonymous||reply 158||01/19/2015|