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Let's discuss Tootsie!

I just rewatched the TCM broadcast from last week. Genuinely funny movie. I love how he wants to do the Eleanor Rossevelt story as Dorothy.

I always felt Teri Garr was robbed of the Oscar but now I feel Garr is a little schticky and Jessica Lange really gave a nice lovely sad performance. (Doris Belack really was the Best Supporting Actress in the movie though)

Dabney Coleman kept his beautiful ass covered really was a thing of beauty in Nine to Five and that Chevy Chase move wear he took it out.


by Anonymousreply 16709/28/2017

Let's discuss Tootie.

by Anonymousreply 103/02/2013

I love Kim Fields.

by Anonymousreply 203/02/2013

Although I enjoyed it tremendously when it came out, I never quite got how an unattractive "actress" was permitted to ad lib her way to soap opera stardom. I also wondered why the experience didn't lead to bigger things for Hoffman's character's career. You'd think he'd get a book deal and a run on the talk show circuits after pulling off a legendary showbiz hoax like that.

by Anonymousreply 303/02/2013

r3 Character career? Have me met?

by Anonymousreply 403/02/2013

As I recall Garr's part was rather small.

by Anonymousreply 503/02/2013

I love TOOTSIE, and it's got some of the funniest lines ever uttered on film ("You were a tomato!", "How do you feel about Cleveland?", "You slut."). And I agree with you about Garr. Though she's funny in every scene she's in, it's the same kooky, neurotic blonde schtick she's been doing since her days in sketch comedy -- no great stretch. And it's a superficial role, her character exists simply for laughs and to be the brunt of jokes, but she doesn't really push the story forward -- take the character out and it won't hamper the progression of the story. Jessica Lange's character, however, is the heart of the story. She is the reason Hoffman's character changes from volatile, uncaring actor to sensitive, hopeless romantic, and the way Lange plays it, it's easy to see why he's fallen in love and is willing to change. Her role really is a support[italic]ive[/italic] one as it's pivotal to the progression of the lead's personal story.

by Anonymousreply 603/02/2013

Can't you just reminisce about the last Tootsie thread a year and half ago? Another movie was overrated by DL. It's little more than a sitcom, an ancient one at that, but I'm sure this thing will drag on for over 100 posts.

by Anonymousreply 703/02/2013


Remember when Kim Fields played Mrs Butterworth on a commercial?

by Anonymousreply 803/02/2013

[quote]I also wondered why the experience didn't lead to bigger things for Hoffman's character's career. You'd think he'd get a book deal and a run on the talk show circuits after pulling off a legendary showbiz hoax like that.

It did r3. In the final scene when he waits for Jessica Lange at the stage door and she is so mad she will barely talk to him....she says "you are pretty hot after your big unveiling so what's next for you Michael?"

He says he is going to do Jeff's play with Sandy but the implication is he has a lot of offers.

by Anonymousreply 903/02/2013

poor bitter and jaded.

by Anonymousreply 1003/02/2013

Lange's intensity and hurt in the final scene where she is signing autographs and sees Hoffman waiting for her is quite beautiful.

by Anonymousreply 1103/02/2013

Dustin Hoffman and Jessica Lange are both great actors but Tootsie was soooo unbelievably boring. I have never understood its appeal. It is not in the least bit entertaining.

by Anonymousreply 1203/02/2013

intelligent people don't get bored r12

by Anonymousreply 1303/02/2013

R4, I didn't mean Dustin Hoffman's career as a character actor. I meant Michael Dorsey's career. I couldn't recall the name so it's no surprise I forgot the reference R9 provided. I only remember the big laugh it got in the movie theater when they cut to the playhouse in a barn with Return to Love Canal, an obvious comedown for the former cover-girl, Dorothy Michaels.

by Anonymousreply 1403/02/2013

One thing that never made sense was at the very end after Michael Dorsey announces who he/she really is, I would think he'd be in such demand and he wouldn't be able to stand alone on a New York street.

by Anonymousreply 1503/03/2013

I'm still convinced that Lange got the Best Supporting Oscar as a consolation prize, she was denied a Best Actress for "Frances" that year or the year before. She was good, of course, but it's really just an ordinary "The Girl" role.

Bill Murray was the one who gave a really excellent supporting performance.

by Anonymousreply 1603/03/2013

Yes r16 it was a consolation prize because she was nominated that same year for Frances and people were voting for M in Sophie's Choice as lead actress so they gave her the supporting one as a way of saying we liked you in Frances too but we have to vote for Meryl.

My point in rewatching it was that she gave a very nice heartfelt performance. I don't know if she'd have won without the double nominations (Glenn Close probably would or at least should have for Garp) but my point was it was very nice work.

by Anonymousreply 1703/03/2013

[quote] but it's really just an ordinary "The Girl" role.

Hey, what's wrong with just playing "the girl" role!!!!

by Anonymousreply 1803/03/2013

I was was born to play Tootsie!

by Anonymousreply 1903/03/2013

R13 Intelligent people also don't make blanket statements about what intelligent people do or don't do.

by Anonymousreply 2003/03/2013

r20 I was teasing you based on the content of the other hard feelings

by Anonymousreply 2103/03/2013

Jeez r20 try to find a sense of humor.

by Anonymousreply 2203/03/2013

Yes R13 and I was teasing you back. It's all love dear.

by Anonymousreply 2303/03/2013

R22 How about you let me and my boyfriend R13 handle this. We don't need you interfering in our affairs. We don't do threesomes.

Oh and I found my sense of humor just as I posted my response. I thought my it was hilarious.

by Anonymousreply 2403/03/2013

Teri Garr at her finest.

by Anonymousreply 2503/03/2013

"Does Jeff know?"

by Anonymousreply 2603/03/2013

I loved Charles Durning in it and when they meet at the bar and he says he should punch him but won't. It was a sweet movie and even the cheesy song was good.

by Anonymousreply 2703/03/2013

One of my favorite movies of all time, genuinely funny. Hoffman and the whole cast were sublime! I own the movie and watch it once or twice year.

by Anonymousreply 2803/03/2013

"Michael I beg you, bet therapy!'

by Anonymousreply 2903/03/2013

I hated when they made her remove her skates. What really happened that season when Kim Fields got so fat? Was she really pregnant?

by Anonymousreply 3003/03/2013

Director Sydney Pollack is also a hoot as Michael Dorsey's long-suffering agent.

by Anonymousreply 3103/03/2013

Pollack was such an amazing actor, actually. Love him.

Lange was perfection.

by Anonymousreply 3203/04/2013

Go, Tootsie Go!

by Anonymousreply 3303/04/2013

Many times a lead actress (like Jessica in Tootsie) will place themselves in the supporting category to better their chances of winning.

Which was Teri Garr's complaint about losing to Jessica Lange

by Anonymousreply 3403/04/2013

Jessica played a supporting role. Everyone but Dustin was supporting.

by Anonymousreply 3503/04/2013

Bill Murray ad-libbed most of his lines. His name owas not on the posters or in any of the press relases, and he did not appear in the trailers. His appearance in the film was a complete surprise until word of mouth got out.

by Anonymousreply 3603/04/2013

I think it's a terrific film and very funny. All you have to do is see how many alleged comedies are not terrific or funny and you can see that it is about as rare as Haley's comet for everything to align just right.

by Anonymousreply 3703/04/2013

The only line I felt didn't work was "Being a woman in the 80s is so complicated." Sure, it was directed at Dorothy which made it funny but it didn't seem like something Lange would say.

by Anonymousreply 3803/04/2013

Some nice on set photos by Mary Ellen Mark, including from "Tootsie".

by Anonymousreply 3903/04/2013

Yeah, Dabney Coleman had a nice ass. The only time I ever saw him shirtless though was on an episode of "Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman. Nice body.

by Anonymousreply 4003/04/2013

Was she the fat one or the colored girl who roller skated everywhere?

by Anonymousreply 4103/04/2013

Michael i begged u to get some therapy!

I gave the chocolates to a girl. So did i, i thought!


by Anonymousreply 4203/04/2013

[quote] Jessica played a supporting role. Everyone but Dustin was supporting.

The only star in a Dustin Hoffman Dustin Hoffman!

by Anonymousreply 4303/04/2013

If this movie came out today Jessica Lange would be called fat.

by Anonymousreply 4403/06/2013

No she wouldn't Jen r44, unlike yourself, she is a beautiful woman.

by Anonymousreply 4503/06/2013

Watching it again, it is just too unbelievable that no one would've figured out the Dorothy was a man in drag! And the thing about Michael getting away with doing his own makeup at home because of an "allergy", don't they have union rules on the set which wouldn't allow for that? I do enjoy the movie though.

by Anonymousreply 4603/30/2013

Did someone call for That Girl?

by Anonymousreply 4703/30/2013

As much as I love Jessica Lange, Teri Garr stole this film outright.

It wasn't too long after Garr's under-appreciated performance as Dreyfuss's wife in "Close Encounters," right?

Teri Garr is one of the greats whose career stalled too long ago...I know she's been ill. God bless that funny and talented woman.

Also, Bill Murray was at his his best as Hoffmann's roommate her. Understated but hilarious

by Anonymousreply 4803/30/2013

Bi female here - watching "Tootsie" when it came out in the '80s made me aware of feelings for women for the first time. I was 14, and Jessica Lange was just so gorgeous, sexy, and sensitive.

I still really like the film, but does anyone else feel that Lange's line to Dorothy "I love you, but I just can't LOVE you" is rather naff; when Dorothy reveals that he's actually Michael Dorsey, a man, it's now fine for her to waltz off with him into the sunset. Perhaps they could have explored more the theme of falling in love with the person, and not just the gender.

by Anonymousreply 4903/30/2013

[quote] Perhaps they could have explored more the theme of falling in love with the person, and not just the gender.

We're talking about a mainstream comedy (albeit with a bloke in drag) from the early 1980s. It wasn't an art house film exploring gender issues.

by Anonymousreply 5003/30/2013

R48 - Agree about Teri Garr.

by Anonymousreply 5103/30/2013

Meet Teri Garr and you will quickly find out why her career stalled.

"You're nothing like you are in your movies, are you." - David Russell, dismissing her after five minutes. My sentiments exactly!

by Anonymousreply 5203/30/2013

Teri was fun on Letterman.

by Anonymousreply 5303/30/2013

God forbid you should lose your standing as a cult failure.

by Anonymousreply 5403/30/2013


Dorothy looked just like my Aunt Mary....complete with heavy makeup. My aunt work it to cover bad acne scars.

by Anonymousreply 5503/30/2013

[quote] And the thing about Michael getting away with doing his own makeup at home because of an "allergy", don't they have union rules on the set which wouldn't allow for that?

true r46 that is a reach...having done a few soap appearances in my day I know the wardrobe people are constantly rushing in to fix and primp your clothes and smooth things out, retuck your shirt, fix your hair etc. In reality some wardrobe girl would have accidentally grabbed Dustin's fake boobs inadvertently.

by Anonymousreply 5603/30/2013

Dabney Coleman nude in Modern Problems is one of the hilights of film history.....any one have a link?

by Anonymousreply 5703/30/2013

I loved Tootsie! I'm from Syracuse, and being that not much is ever heard about Syracuse other than snow, or basketball it was really fun to hear them talk about my little obscure, rusty hometown. Then when they finally show the Syracuse Playhouse- it's in a barn! So disappointing yet hilarious! Typical of the New Yorker's vision of Upstate.

by Anonymousreply 5803/31/2013

I was in it too!

by Anonymousreply 5903/31/2013

So was I!

by Anonymousreply 6003/31/2013

I'm dead, sadly.

by Anonymousreply 6103/31/2013

r. 46 & 56, it's not a reach. Plenty of actors have allergic reactions to stage makeup and either provide their own or do their own makeup at home. It's actually quite common.

by Anonymousreply 6203/31/2013

That is one nutty hospital!

by Anonymousreply 6303/31/2013

[quote]Everyone but Dustin was supporting.

I remember back in '82, the Oscar campaign directed at those who claimed Jessica Lange was the movie's leading lady:

"No, Dorothy Michaels is the movie's leading lady."

And yes, you have to suspend disbelief. Forget the people who can feel the stubs on his face, his fake tits, etc. I don't clearly remember, but was the whole SAG membership issue addressed? Was Dorothy's an open audition and then she joined SAG under that name? And what ID did "she" produce when she joined the union?

Actually, I'm a member of Equity and I don't even remember if I had to produce any ID. And since you can join under any stage name, maybe she was given a pass.

by Anonymousreply 6403/31/2013

Julie Nichols would be considered a coward in the lesbian community nowadays.

by Anonymousreply 6503/31/2013


by Anonymousreply 6603/31/2013

Dustin Hoffman's female stand-in for when Michael was Dorothy actually became his full-time stand-in on all of his subsequent movies and also one of his production assistants.

by Anonymousreply 6703/31/2013

I always thought being a stand-in would be a cool job.

Long hours, you're a step above background, great good, and I bet there are some perks.

I'd like to think stars would be loyal to a good stand in.

by Anonymousreply 6803/31/2013

It wwasn't half as good as Mrs. Doubtfire.

by Anonymousreply 6903/31/2013

Great food.

Plus, you work on a long movie shoot for a few months and with overtime, you might be able to have some free time until the next project begins.

And being in tight with a major star could open some doors for the future.

by Anonymousreply 7003/31/2013

There are not many stand-ins who have that sort of deal where they're on a weekly contract as opposed to a daily voucher, though. Robin Williams, Jeff Bridges, John Travolta, Matt Damon, Leonardo DiCaprio and Will Smith are the only major stars I can think of. And no women at all have the power to get their stand-ins on a contract. It seems with the guys it's a buddy thing-and, maybe with Travolta, something more.i

by Anonymousreply 7103/31/2013

but r62...nowadays you need hi-def makeup....I guess back then maybe it was more believable...but it's is just a premise you have to buy to enjoy the movie....let's face it in real life if Hoffman showed up looking like that everyone would say...look there is a guy in a dress and wig...

by Anonymousreply 7203/31/2013

r64...I don't clearly remember, but was the whole SAG membership issue addressed? Was Dorothy's an open audition and then she joined SAG under that name? And what ID did "she" produce when she joined the union?

He gets the audition just by showing up and saying he forgot his paper work or something like that but that Sydney Pollack is his agent to which the woman from the soap says wow, quite impressiveness.

It is sort of implied that he gets Pollack to take care of the paperwork. (in the Russian Tea Room scene) They must do something illegal because Pollack even as big a deal as he is supposed to still afraid of getting caught at the end when Dorothy's contract is picked up.

by Anonymousreply 7303/31/2013

Article from back in the day.

by Anonymousreply 7403/31/2013

R71, yeah, I was thinking the high end, rare cases...I know that the job usually isn't great fun: daily vouchers, sex-starved a.d.'s, long food lines.

by Anonymousreply 7503/31/2013

[quote]Dabney Coleman nude in Modern Problems is one of the hilights of film history.....any one have a link?

I agree.

by Anonymousreply 7603/31/2013

About 20 years ago I worked with a woman who looked like Dustin as Dorothy. I shared a cubicle with a guy who would sing "Something's Telling Me it Might Be You" everytime she walked by.

by Anonymousreply 7704/01/2013

I agree with the poster who said it was wholly unbelieveable that anyone would not have instantly seen that Dorothy Michaels was a man in drag. Yes, I know movies are about the suspension of disbelief. But when the entire PREMISE of the movie is that a guy is trying to fool people into thinking he is a real woman, well, it just never worked for me. I thought it was a Hoffman vanity project. I did not have one genuine laugh during the entire movie. I "got" it, got what they were trying to do but it never worked for me. I remember all the articles and interviews with Hoffman where he expressed his empathy and support for women and that portraying one "gave him new respect for women," that it made him a better man, etc. etc. Again, it was all Hoffman's vanity project. SEE WHAT A BRILLIANT ACTOR I AM. And, yes, he is in the right role. But this movie was just stupid in so many respects. "America's favorite Tootsie is on a roll." Really? Just looks like Dustin Hoffman in drag to me.

by Anonymousreply 7804/01/2013

"I was a better man as a man pretending to be a woman than I ever was as a man, blah, blah, blah"


by Anonymousreply 7904/01/2013

I loved the movie, but wasn't too crazy about Hoffman's interpretation. The stupidest thing a man can do when impersonating a woman is go into a clown-like falsetto. First it's insulting and second it's amateurish, as the falsetto is very limited in range and volume and hardly makes a guy sound like a woman, but more like a guy imitating a woman.

It's much more effective to use your natural upper register and accompany it by female mannerisms, to whatever degree you want your woman to be feminine. Find that range where a man's voice meets a woman's, it's not that hard. Play a tape of a woman talking and join her in her key and octave. I know Hoffman has a pretty deep voice, but it's not "Ol' Man River" deep. And I'm sure even good ol' Paul Robeson would have been able to find a more female sounding upper range.

That's one of the reasons Jack Lemmon was so much better than Tony Curtis in "Some Like It Hot" (other than Mr. Lemmon being one of the greatest actors in the history of Cinema).

And if Alaska Thunderfuck - with her deep bass - can sound like a girl, even Dustin Hoffman can.

by Anonymousreply 8004/01/2013

Hoffman really loved his character and regretted that he couldn't make Dorothy more attractive.

by Anonymousreply 8104/01/2013

As a videotaped soap in 1982 or so, wouldn't the hospital show be under an AFTRA contract anyway? Much easier to sidestep that whole membership thing. (just curious)

by Anonymousreply 8204/01/2013

The cutting edge relevance of DataLounge never fails to amaze me.

by Anonymousreply 8304/01/2013

Well smell you r83...aren't you just so superior!

by Anonymousreply 8404/01/2013

true r82 soaps were always under AFTRA

by Anonymousreply 8504/01/2013

What a fun year for movies. I didn't know Lesly Ann Warren was nominated for V/V. Nominations and winners for 1982 Oscars:

by Anonymousreply 8604/01/2013

I wonder if Michael and Julie got married.

by Anonymousreply 8704/02/2013

Leslie Ann Warren was hysterical in V/V.

"Oh, pookie!?" and "I'm horny!" in that horrible nasal accent.

by Anonymousreply 8804/02/2013

"I wonder if Michael and Julie got married."

No, once she got to know the real Michael she realized he was still pompous, self-absorbed, humorless, and tempermental. He may have improved, but how much can you improve a guy like that.

by Anonymousreply 8904/02/2013

If the roles in Tootsie had been gender-reversed, who would the actors have been? Say that the lead character was Dorothy Michaels and she had to pretend to be a man (Michael Dorsey) to get a part on a soap, and she fell in love with a male actor on the show, only the male actor thinks our hero is a mo. Instead of Dustin and Jessica, who do we get? From 1982, how about the Keatons, Diane and Michael?

by Anonymousreply 9004/04/2013

[quote]No, once she got to know the real Michael she realized he was still pompous, self-absorbed, humorless, and tempermental. He may have improved, but how much can you improve a guy like that.

and short too.

by Anonymousreply 9104/04/2013

R90, Julie Andrews and James Garner, with Blake Edwards direc.... hey, wait a minute...

by Anonymousreply 9204/04/2013

Avigdor wait!

by Anonymousreply 9304/04/2013

I'm pretty sure Shakespeare got there first, with a little thing called Twelfth Night.

by Anonymousreply 9406/13/2013

This is one of my favorite movies. Besides Hoffman (who is most definitely the lead character) this movie has a great ensemble in a very well crafted and wriiten movie.

by Anonymousreply 9506/13/2013

One of my favorites of its time, mostly for the supporting actors

(which I guess means everyone other than Dustin Hoffman, who is great in this and other films, but never really did much for me).

Teri Garr was perfect; Jessica Lange was adorable; Bill Murray and Dabney Coleman cracked me up, as they do; and Sydney Pollack and Geena Davis stole their brief scenes.

Actually, each one of the supporting actors seemed to steal their respective scenes from Hoffman. That's great acting by them AND him, and above all, very good casting.

by Anonymousreply 9606/14/2013

Well fuck you, R96.

by Anonymousreply 9706/15/2013

The casting is absolutely perfect right down to the guy who says, "How do you feel about Cleveland?" That guy was born to deliver that line.

by Anonymousreply 9806/15/2013

I'm Edward Kimberly!

by Anonymousreply 9911/09/2014

Southwest General is made of PEOPLE!

by Anonymousreply 10011/09/2014

Hoffman doing the publicity for this movie gave the greatest performance of his life.

Though I was pretty embarrassed by it.

by Anonymousreply 10111/09/2014

The DVD extra where he cries about being an unattractive woman who society treats as invisible is either one of the most sincere moments on a DVD, or the best bit of acting anyone ever achieved in history.

by Anonymousreply 10211/09/2014

Jessica did really well here.

by Anonymousreply 10311/09/2014

I really enjoyed Tootsie. Once. It was a fun movie. I am shocked that people find it so brilliant. I didn't, at all.

by Anonymousreply 10411/09/2014

And - probably until the merger with SAG - anybody could join AFTRA, just for the price of initiation and dues, if I remember correctly (same thing with AGMA and AGVA. Please don't anyone ask what AGMA And AGVA are!

by Anonymousreply 10511/09/2014

I always thought the same thing, r102.

Whatever I love this movie so fucking much. If it's not the greatest American comedy, then certainly (IMO, obviously) it's the greatest comedy movie that is a classic situation comedy. It's a product of Hollywood in the best possible way.

Charles Durning was brilliant in that last scene at the bar. Why was he nominated for The Best Little Whorehouse instead of this I don't know. He should have been nominated for Tootsie and won.

The tomato scene with Sydney Pollack (whom I LOVED as an actor) is probably my favorite scene in a movie, period.

I know they didn't use the term then but Dustin Hoffman as an obsessive, demanding, chauvinist but brilliant actor is no doubt the gold standard for "meta" casting.

Love the movie, always will.

by Anonymousreply 10611/09/2014

Coming out on Criterion Collection second week in December. Just in time for... well, you know. (Finally, something to ask for).

by Anonymousreply 10711/09/2014

R107 Hannukah?

by Anonymousreply 10811/09/2014

Off subject but "Safe" with Julianne Moore at her best also out on Criterion next month. Now back to regularly scheduled programming...

by Anonymousreply 10911/09/2014

One of my favorite movies of all time. There's not a single bad or boring scene in the film. It all works perfectly. And the acting is consistently flawless.

by Anonymousreply 11011/10/2014

Was this the movie I did with that Moon Frye child?

by Anonymousreply 11111/10/2014

Jessica Lange is so young and beautiful in this movie!

by Anonymousreply 11211/10/2014

[quote]Perhaps they could have explored more the theme of falling in love with the person, and not just the gender.

They did, and in a way that was decades advanced from the early 1980s in which it was set.

The very fact that homosexuality wasn't treated negatively was very progressive for the times. Whenever Michael was referenced as possibly gay or Dorothy as possibly a lesbian (the hilarious scene in Sydney Pollack's office is an example of both), its treated with sympathy and attempts at understanding, not as something horrible or played for laughs. Even when it is part of the jokes, it's always the misconception of it (and the utter ludicrousness of Michael as Dorothy still being a straight male underneath it all) that is played for laughs and not just the concept that one might be gay or lesbian.

It was very progressive for its time. It still holds up today.

by Anonymousreply 11311/10/2014

[quote]Bill Murray ad-libbed most of his lines. His name owas not on the posters or in any of the press relases, and he did not appear in the trailers. His appearance in the film was a complete surprise until word of mouth got out.

I remember the theater audience reacting whrn he first appeared onscreen.

by Anonymousreply 11411/10/2014

All true r113. Although my favorite line in that whole scene was when Hoffman says "I went to the ladies room and I pissed in the sink I'm in TROUBLE man," - that fucking cracks me up every time.

R114 do you think someone's appearance in a movie could be kept under wraps for that long today? I can't imagine....

So many great things about this movie. Can't be praised enough, IMO.

by Anonymousreply 11511/10/2014

So I just saw the movie for the first time and I thought it was just ok. Maybe I need time to process but I didn't think there was anything extraordinary except Jessica Lange being so young and pretty. I was quite shocked to learn she WON an academy award for this movie. When I think of Jessica as an actress, I always think of her with an edge but Julie was so innocent and sweet.

by Anonymousreply 11601/18/2015

I think Glenn Close really should have won the Oscar over Lange--and, if she had, just think what would have happened to countless DL threads! It's like the Butterfly Effect!

by Anonymousreply 11701/18/2015

Great extras on the Criterion DVD including deleted scenes, almost weird to see when one has the movie memorized (a weird one with the baby grabbing Dorothy's hair and the wig shifting and Lange looking a bit suspicious). Also a long interview with Gene Shalit that could never make the movie -- because he talks about doing his play in Syracuse later and Sandy would've seen.

Best of all.. an early screen test where Hoffman looks completely different, when they were going for sexy-ish. Nice try. With the director at the time, Hal Ashby. Hal Ashby! All this time and I never knew that.

by Anonymousreply 11801/18/2015

[quote]I think Glenn Close really should have won the Oscar over Lange--and, if she had, just think what would have happened

Perhaps better TV roles?

by Anonymousreply 11901/18/2015

I've seen this film a dozen times but it was only when I watched it again over the holidays that I noticed Estelle Getty was in the scene where Dorothy dances with Charles Durning.

by Anonymousreply 12001/18/2015

And I just now noticed, after a million viewings since 1982, that almost every woman watching the show -- and one famously coming up to Dorothy for an autograph and saying how pretty she is (Dorothy gives her a look and then says "You too" or something) -- are all dressed like her, with similar big hairdo and big plastic glasses.

And, somehow, I never noticed Bill Murray was eating a plate of lemons in one scene. Even when he was making sour faces.

The joys of rediscovering films. :)

by Anonymousreply 12101/18/2015

R119 You mean like yours in "Holocaust"?

by Anonymousreply 12201/18/2015

Thanks for the info about Bill Murray. He is superb.The film is a sheer pleasure to watch.

by Anonymousreply 12301/18/2015

I loved this movie when it was released in 1982.

I bought the 25th anniversary DVD, and I was disappointed. The point of the film appears to be that an asshole loser of a man who has destroyed his own career to the point that he can't even get work as a tomato makes a better modern day woman than any woman. Even a woman like Jessica Lange or Teri Garr. Dorothy's an icon! And the nation's role model! Look - on the cover of Time magazine! Even though Tootsie appears to be promoting women's rights, it considers them incapable and contemptible.

The supporting performances of Durning, Dabney, Pollack, and Murray are great though. And Garber and Lange are superb.

by Anonymousreply 12401/18/2015

There's a shot of him in a BTS special on the Criterion where it looks like Murray is smoking a joint on the set, ha, doubt that would happen so easily today. And I hadn't heard but he took one look at the apartment bedroom set they had created for him and then smashed it into pieces -- on his first day of work. Again, tolerated today? Doubtful.

But Pollack still glows about him and, yeah, most (but not all) of the lines are improvised. His character didn't even exist until a much later rewrite when Elaine May came in; Hoffman fought it, didn't want a roommate at his age, and then pushed Murray for the role.

And, in keeping with my anti-Garr troll rep, she is interviewed and says that May really wrote the part of Sandy and told Pollack that nobody else but Teri could play it -- so, in true Garr form, Garr decided she didn't want it in that case. They had to talk her into it. THAT's the Teri Garr I met, ha. Cold and weird.

by Anonymousreply 12501/18/2015

"Who is Les and why is he thanking you for a lovely evening in front of the fireplace?"

"My mind is blank."

by Anonymousreply 12601/18/2015

You couldn't make this film today. Can you imagine the rage from the trans community?

by Anonymousreply 12701/18/2015

R127 there are LOTS of great films you couldn't make today.

We might as well just have filmmaking by committee.

by Anonymousreply 12801/18/2015

Oddly enough, "Tootsie" was criticized for being by committee too back then, mostly because of so many writers taking a shot at it (which wasn't the norm at the time). Somehow they pulled together the best of all of them -- Dustin had his own, Sidney had Gelbart, Elaine May uncredited probably did the most.

It looks like an incredibly cohesive work of art compared to filmmaking today, especially a comedy (with a lot of heart).

by Anonymousreply 12901/18/2015

My favorite line:

Michael Dorsey: "I did sleep with her, she still thinks I'm gay!" Michael's agent: "That's not so good, Michael."

by Anonymousreply 13001/18/2015

Doris Belak should have been nominated for her role in that movie.

She NAILED Gloria Monty.

by Anonymousreply 13101/18/2015

[quote]"I was a better man as a man pretending to be a woman than I ever was as a man, blah, blah, blah"

It took Hoffman about 50 takes to get that line out, and if you watch the scene that made it into the film, you can still see him almost stumble over his words.

by Anonymousreply 13201/18/2015

I've always enjoyed the movie, but Lange's performance has to be the most overrated in cinema history.

by Anonymousreply 13301/18/2015

It was also a different time in terms of screenplay structure -- where a nice relaxed First Act could play out for 30 minutes so we get to know the characters and set up. These days, he'd be in that dress by page 10.

As for Garr... To paraphrase the great Sandra Bernhard: "Let's go see a woman who will be giving the exact same performance for the next twenty years. But she did it best in 'Tootsie', you must admit."

R133, watch "Frances" and "Tootsie" on a double bill and you'll see why she won, especially at the time. And she has nice small moments like that look of horror when she sees Dorothy in bed with her sans makeup and hair. But, yeah, Close in "Garp" was the best that yet -- and it was a strong year too.

by Anonymousreply 13401/18/2015

Teri Garr was hilarious as Sandy, but I have to agree with the OP. She's basically doing her usual neurotic girl schtick and her character is very one-note. Walk on, say or do something to make 'em laugh, exit stage left. Lange, on the other hand, has the difficult task of being the straight man among the many flashier characters and still draw you in and make you believe that Julie is the perfect woman for Michael. She's also the more complex character, juggling career, single motherhood, relationships, male chauvinism, etc., all the troubles young working women were facing in the '80s, making her very relatable to female audiences.

by Anonymousreply 13501/18/2015

Why did Michael's reveal that Dorothy was played by a man allows him out of his contract? You would think that the show would want to keep him on.

by Anonymousreply 13601/19/2015

The point isn't that Michael is a better woman than genetic women. It is that Michael is a better person when he understands what it is like to be a woman. If anything, it is about how women are better than men.

And, unrelatedly, I hate Jessica Lange in this. She mumbles through the whole thing and seems on drugs and distracted by a shiny object off-camera.

by Anonymousreply 13701/19/2015

R137 - I thought Jessica was perfect in the role.

by Anonymousreply 13801/19/2015

The best scenes were with Sydney Pollack, no doubt. I miss him.

by Anonymousreply 13901/19/2015

I've grown to truly appreciate it over the years (its Shakespearean structure, for example). But I can't say I've ever found it truly funny except for the "You slut!" bit.

by Anonymousreply 14001/19/2015

Lange's Oscar wouldn't seem so egregious if not for competition (Lesley Ann Warren, Kim Stanley, Glenn Close, Ms. Garr). It's a solid performance, but clearly she won to console her for not winning for her performance in Frances, which is breathtaking, and I would still contend better than Streep in Sophie's Choice.

by Anonymousreply 14101/19/2015

It was also a "mea culpa" Oscar for doubting her so much and calling her a talentless bimbo in "King Kong". As Fosse put it, "I've never seen anyone go from so cold to so hot so fast" and it's true. She was a big zero for a few years there, her best work being a bad Susan Saint James comedy, and then... She got the last laugh.

by Anonymousreply 14201/19/2015

Imagine if Pollack was nominated for the Best Director and Best Supporting Actor Academy Awards.

by Anonymousreply 14301/19/2015

To the notion that Hoffman is not believable dressed as a woman: I think that because we know from the start of the conceit, we cannot be objective. As opposed to other people who do not know and seem to believe him. After all, there are plenty of women who look like men and aren't.

by Anonymousreply 14401/19/2015

As Fosse put it, "I've never seen anyone go from so cold to so hot so fast"

What about himself from the film of Sweet Charity to Cabaret?

by Anonymousreply 14501/19/2015

My favourite line is Dorothy's to Ron: Not threatening enough? Listen, you take your hands off me or I'll knee your balls right through the roof of your mouth! Is that enough of a threat?

by Anonymousreply 14601/19/2015

"I want to make her prettier. How far can you pull back?"

Cameraman: How about Cleveland?

by Anonymousreply 14701/19/2015

Yeah, maybe he could relate, R145. And he also was part of that rise when he gave her the only decent job she had for years in "All That Jazz" (sure, they were fucking but still... )

Pauline Kael was always (well, often) a fan of hers, even in "King Kong", and I like how she pointed out in "Crimes of the Heart" that Lange has "quite the chasis" to throw around. Back when women could still have some curves.

by Anonymousreply 14801/19/2015

Tootsie started my lifelong crush on Jessie Lange, though I tried watching AHS and I could not get into it.

by Anonymousreply 14901/19/2015

One side bar reason why I love this movie so much, and drop everything to watch it whenever its on, is how it nails what the city felt like in the early 80s. I was a kid then and my dad lived on the upper east side and the whole movie just *gets* it.

Dad had a ton of struggling artist, actor, writer friends - many of whom lived in raw spaces like Michael Dorsey and Jeff. I even went to a birthday party very much like the one in the movie (dad's best friend had a big gallery opening and then a party at his place afterwards).

All that aside, I think it's a superb movie.

Also, its funny how the naysayers keep bringing up how in real life NO ONE would've been fooled by a guy in that get up. When in fact Hoffman dressed up as Dorothy and fooled quite a few people in character as before the movie was shot.

by Anonymousreply 15001/19/2015

Hoffman's woman look also wasn't so unusual for the time.

TV had yet to be all prettified and beautifully lite with only blonde bombshells. There were lots of newswomen and even actresses on TV at the time who were less than glamour girls.

by Anonymousreply 15101/19/2015

The mainstreaming of drag queens have made everyone familiar with men dressed up as women. Back in 1982, drag queens were invisible outside the almost equally invisible gay scene (which was just about to become visible for all the worst reasons).

by Anonymousreply 15201/19/2015

Appreciating this movie requires a major suspension of belief. Too major for me. So many people around him—and close to him—didn't know he was Tootsie? Had a hard time with that. It just made everyone look stupid.

This is one of those filmed in NY movies that doesn't feature that many memorable NY locations. That was intentional, though.

by Anonymousreply 15301/19/2015

Usually I find Hoffman a bit mannered and too NYC for me, but he did make me forget he was a man.

by Anonymousreply 15401/19/2015

Did people really drink fron jars?

by Anonymousreply 15501/19/2015

I'd heard that Dustin based Dorothy on this beloved soap actress.

I can kind of see it.

by Anonymousreply 15601/19/2015

Oh really, r153?

by Anonymousreply 15701/19/2015

R146 you forgot the best part.

by Anonymousreply 15801/19/2015

I love this movie so much for all of the reasons everyone has said. Plus it is an intelligent comedy with intelligent insights about NYC.

I have watched it so many times, though, that I have come up with a few goofs/plot holes : 1 . How did Dorothy get a paycheck with a SSN? (I saw this on another Tootsie thread) 2. The night that Les takes Dorothy was damn late by the time he got into the city! Not too likely for a sort-of old geezer like Les! 3. There must have been several babies who played Amy. In some scenes, she looks about 6 mos. old; in others she looks closer to one year! 4. When Dorothy is offered the job on the soap....she is offered the job right on the spot with no call discussion of other actresses that may have been considered, even though Dorothy would have arrived fairly late in the day? ............Don't mean to nitpick....Still love it!

by Anonymousreply 15909/25/2017

R37, so true!

by Anonymousreply 16009/25/2017

R46, I mean, yeah! But Dorothy was so charming and nurturing that she seemed female. Please see my post at 159 for goofs and plot holes that I have noticed after viewing this film over 12 times! Cheers!

by Anonymousreply 16109/25/2017

R155, you betcha!

If you read Angela's Ashes by Frank McCourt, he talks about his mom saving jam jars for them to use as glasses.

Jewish people used to save "Yahrzeit" glasses to drink out of as well.

by Anonymousreply 16209/25/2017

R150, yup! I agree!

This film has truth in it! That's what makes a comedy great....when things ring TRUE..

by Anonymousreply 16309/25/2017

LOVE this movie. Funny and heartwarming at the same time, with so many classic lines like those quoted above.

For me, the supporting men make the movie more than Garr and Lange. Pollock and Murray are brilliant, but George Gaines is my fave as the shitty hack soap actor who hits on all the women. The scene where he sings and tries to hook up with Michael, as well as the Hoffman/Murray scene afterwards, is awesome.

by Anonymousreply 16409/25/2017

I thought Dustin as Dorothy looked exactly like Jane Fonda in '9 to 5'.

by Anonymousreply 16509/25/2017

Brilliant script.

by Anonymousreply 16609/25/2017

R165, Jane Fonda is so overrated as an actress.

Sorry, off topic. But just had to say it. Good looking woman, though.

by Anonymousreply 16709/28/2017
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