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Downton Abbey, Season Three, Part II

As requested.

Let's all talk like Lady Cora!

"Oooooooooo, Wobewt!"

by Anonymousreply 40002/12/2013

I'm looking forward to the scene where Bates dies in the dirigible accident and that slaggard widow of his takes after Ethel in the nookie sweat mines.

Fellowes is SO brillillliantly creative.

by Anonymousreply 102/03/2013

I can't wait for Carson and Thomas' sex scene!

by Anonymousreply 202/03/2013

I've enjoyed it but have lost all interest in it. I'm not sure why, but I did.

I'm recording it and will likely try to finish watching the current season, but will say goodbye to it after this season's finale.

I know people love it so I hope it will stick around as long as it's enjoyed. But it's become incredibly silly for me to follow and just seems to have run-on, never ending plots which never truly peak.

by Anonymousreply 302/03/2013

When Cora minces "Oh, Mary", it's easy to conclude that she's channelling Jackée.

by Anonymousreply 402/03/2013

Can someone link the old thread?

by Anonymousreply 502/03/2013

I remember the good old days when there was male nudity on PBS.

by Anonymousreply 602/03/2013

old thread

by Anonymousreply 702/03/2013

I've seen the whole Series III now and I think it gets much better now that (but not because) Sybil is dead. People make more sense in what they say and do and in some instances even become less annoying (I'm looking at you, Matthew Crawley.) I think it's still great entertainment. Not high drama but great entertainment.

I watch the discussion over at TWOP. They all want period costumes and modern behaviour... it isn't what Fellowes is trying to write (though I think his writing is uneven at best. But when it gets good, it's very, very good again.)

by Anonymousreply 802/03/2013

Better tonight.

by Anonymousreply 902/03/2013

Mrs O'Brien is really setting Thomas up!

by Anonymousreply 1002/03/2013

I feel like I am waiting to see a horrible wreck happen. O'Brien is setting Thomas up for a big fall. If Carson is so incredibly rigid about the servants even visiting the home Ethel now works in, imagine his attitude about a homosexual dressing His Lordship. Poor Thomas.

by Anonymousreply 1102/03/2013

Violet, Dowager Countess of Grantham: "'Lie' so unmusical a word...."

Dr. Clarkson: "Even to ease suffering, I could never justify telling an outright lie."

Violet: "Have we ~nothing~ in common?

by Anonymousreply 1202/03/2013

I want someone to remind Carson of his vaudevillian past. Lord Grantham, one of the few who knows, needs to leak it to Mrs. Hughes so she can have some fun with it.

by Anonymousreply 1302/03/2013

"Seems a pity to miss a good pudding."

by Anonymousreply 1402/03/2013

Dr. Clarkson should be getting the surgery read to do liposuction on Matthew's goiter.

(It is getting bigger with every episode.)

by Anonymousreply 1502/03/2013

This programme has become quite tedious. I liked it much more when it was titled "Upstairs, Downstairs."

by Anonymousreply 1602/03/2013

Next week I want to see Ethel give Mrs. Hughes a strap-on to use on Carson. He's getting to be a bit much.

by Anonymousreply 1702/04/2013

Agree with you, OP. Her baby talk is maddening.

by Anonymousreply 1802/04/2013

Look, it's just a soap opera with wonderful production values. It's silly, poorly written, and yes Lady Cora is starting to sound like Tweety Bird. But.... it's still a lot of fun and the guys on it are cute. Except Dan Stephens, who has too many chins and a mouth that frowns even when he wants it to smile.

by Anonymousreply 1902/04/2013

Why is it okay for Lord Grantham o marry a Jewish American (Levinson) and not okay for Baby Sybil to be baptized a Catholic?

by Anonymousreply 2002/04/2013

I can't wait to see what 1923 will bring.

I think it's brilliant the way the late Matthew set up DA as self sufficient. A thing Shrimpie appreciated far too late. Oh, well with O'Brien off to India it appears that DA will survive the Great Depression.

I do assume that the Roaring 20s will be the big build up in seasons [series if you're a Brit] 4 and 5.

It isn't Doenton Abbey, it's the history of the Western World as told through the lens of Downton Abbey.

by Anonymousreply 2102/04/2013

[quote]It isn't Doenton Abbey, it's the history of the Western World as told through the lens of Downton Abbey.

True, and it's amazing how fast things were changing at that time.

by Anonymousreply 2202/04/2013

Poorly written?? Only an American that thinks 'Homeland' is brilliant would say that. It's beautifully written and last night's episode is an excellent example---the scene between Maggie and the doctor; the scenes between Cora and Lord Grantham; the ugly confrontation between Grantham and the women at Lady Crawley's house over Ethel. One of the best episodes ever.

I do agree with r20 though. Puzzling that the creator of the series would make Cora a Levinson and that whole Jewish aspect of it not being explored from beginning of series. I do wonder about that whenever the prejudices of these people emerge throughout the episodes.

by Anonymousreply 2302/04/2013

R23, why are you here, making a nuisance of yourself where you're clearly not wanted?

Is it something in your DNA as a Brit (or perhaps Canadian?) that you must infest places where you and your countryment are not welcome?

by Anonymousreply 2402/04/2013

I love stuffy old Carson.

by Anonymousreply 2502/04/2013

Me too, R25. Love his deep voice.

by Anonymousreply 2602/04/2013

Lord Grantham is turning into quite a whipped dog.

by Anonymousreply 2702/04/2013

I would like to see Thomas and Albert 69

by Anonymousreply 2802/04/2013

R23 ignore R24. As you say, those were well written and acted scenes.

by Anonymousreply 2902/04/2013

Yes. It's ridiculous that Robert married a Jew but is horrified by a catholic granddaughter. Why didn't the family bring that up at dinner instead of rambling on about Indians and Spaniards?

And Anna needs to remind Mr Carson of the Chuckling Charles or whatever his music hall act was called.

I hope Bates will be killed in jail. I'm tired of him and his boring story. I'd rather keep Jimmy around downstairs than have the former Mr Gimp around. (What happened to Bates' bad leg? Prison seems to have done wonders for it. He's quite nimble on his feet these days).

I'm kind of bummed now I won't get to see Sybil in awesome 1020s clothing. Mary's a board and Edith isn't as glam as Syb could be. A shame Sybil threw herself away on Johnny Foreigner.

What can that farmer be thinking? Daisy's too stupid to take over a farm. Can you imagine her being in charge of livestock? And if being a tenant farmer is so great, why did his late wife send their son off to be a servant? Couldn't William have helped his father on the farm?

by Anonymousreply 3002/04/2013

[quote]Puzzling that the creator of the series would make Cora a Levinson and that whole Jewish aspect of it not being explored from beginning of series.

[quote]It's ridiculous that Robert married a Jew but is horrified by a catholic granddaughter.

Neither Lady Cora nor her mother are Jewish. They're Episcopalian.

We know this because the definitive guide to Season 3, Jessica Fellowes and Matthew Sturgis’ “The Chronicles of Downton Abbey,” tells us so. (They should know: She’s the niece of Julian Fellowes, the show’s creator.)

An attractive coffee-table book, the tome contains a chapter devoted to “Mrs. Isidore Levinson,” which states that although, “Martha’s husband was Jewish, she herself is not, and their children were raised Episcopalians.”

by Anonymousreply 3102/04/2013

Yeah, she's as episcopalian as Disraeli was.

by Anonymousreply 3202/04/2013

Dan Stevens does not have too many chins. He doesn't even have one.

by Anonymousreply 3302/04/2013

This season is much better than season 2. Yes--it is just a soap opera, but a lovely one with some fine actors.

by Anonymousreply 3402/04/2013

I can never understand one word those prisoners say to each other!

by Anonymousreply 3502/04/2013

In Germany at that time, ironically, there were a few old money families who married Jews with fortunes to get money to keep up the old estate houses. Later, their sons went into military service, and some of the older generals and senior military in WWI and even WWII had Jewish or half Jewish wives. Their children were raised Christian though. I read a book about it.

At one time, Hitler was trying to get rid of the military generals with Jewish ties by marriage, but they were in such pivotal positions he couldn't get rid of them all.

by Anonymousreply 3602/04/2013

Use your common sense, people!

Lord Grantham would NEVER marry a Jew.

If, through some warp in the space/time continuum, he had, it would be talked about a great deal. Do you think it would not have occurred to anyone to mention that his wife was a Jew when he is ranting about Catholics?

by Anonymousreply 3702/04/2013

[quote]I'm kind of bummed now I won't get to see Sybil in awesome 1020s clothing.

Me, too. I wanted to see her in one of those heavy pre-Norman Conquest cloaks.

by Anonymousreply 3802/04/2013

" a chapter devoted to “Mrs. Isidore Levinson,” which states that although, “Martha’s husband was Jewish, she herself is not, and their children were raised Episcopalians.”

What was the point of that particular back story? It's like Chekov's gun. Shouldn't there have been some scandal about that? Arranged marriages between wealthy Americans to titled Englishmen were one thing but I think a wealthy Jewish American would not have been at all acceptable at the time.

by Anonymousreply 3902/04/2013

I should think thy would mention his wife is half Jewish

by Anonymousreply 4002/04/2013

Could one of our (nice) British friend start a DA Spoilers thread for those of who who don't mind and rather enjoy knowing the outcome.

I'd like to know if things I keep hearing suggested re: Robert are true. I'll still watch the season out but I personally like knowing what's coming and I think a lot of other people do as well.

Please post a Downton Season III Spoilers thread for us impatient American cousins.

by Anonymousreply 4102/04/2013

[quote]I think a wealthy Jewish American would not have been at all acceptable at the time.

Correct. Hence it should be obvious that Cora is not Jewish. The British did not think of Jewishness as some kind of blood stain like the Nazis.

by Anonymousreply 4202/04/2013

Grantham couldn't catch a break last night, poor deluded man, until he heard that Bates was getting out, then he practically did cartwheels.

by Anonymousreply 4302/04/2013

Why is Mrs. O'Brien setting up Thomas to get the shit kicked out of him, by leading him to believe that Jimmy has "a crush" on him?

That's mean.

by Anonymousreply 4402/04/2013

J'adore R38!

by Anonymousreply 4502/04/2013

Oh R44, it's because Thomas did nothing to help her Nephew Alfred become first footman. And nobody holds on to a grudge like O'Brian. She Is delicious!

by Anonymousreply 4602/04/2013

[quote] I think a wealthy Jewish American would not have been at all acceptable at the time.

You are quite wrong.

The 5th Earl of Roseberry married a Jewish woman (a Rothschild) and later became Prime Miniter

The Earl of Carnarvon married an illegitimate daughter of a Rothschild.

Viscount Galway married a Jewish woman in 1747

The first baron Haden-Guest not only married a Jewish woman, he converted to Judaism.

by Anonymousreply 4702/04/2013

Love the series and am thoroughly hooked. That said, there are a few things that bug me. (I'm a few episodes behind though).

Daisy's constant whining about telling "the truth" re. her feelings for William. The boy is dead. Leave it alone and stop with all the hand wringing. No one cares that he wasn't your ultimate dream date. Lots of marriages back then were based on less.

Cora's baby-talk voice. How on earth did EM ever get that part? I can think of a dozen of better actresses for the role.

Annoying, spoiled, selfish Mary. Why can't anyone see through this bitch?

The dolt that married Sybil. If your going to throw your life away and get disowned/disinherited by your family, at least do it for someone scorching hot. He is totally unattractive and acts like a jerk. He's not someone you can believe would even have been able to turn gorgeous Sybil's head, let alone marry her.

O'Brien. Why doesn't anyone ever call her out on her shit?

Cora's mom: Someone needs to throw a pie in her face. I'm so sick of her constant comparisons btw England and America. Lady, you are a guest in another country, have the grace and manners to be polite. No one gives a shit what you think....oh, and you suck!

Matthew: very hot except for his weak chin.

Love, love, love Violet, Isobel, Thomas, Bates, Anna, Carson, Mrs. Hughes and Mrs. Patmore.

by Anonymousreply 4802/04/2013

The ladiy's maid is O'Brien, not O'Brian.

By the spelling of her name, she could very well be Irish Protestant. My guess is that the character is Protestant. It seems difficult to believe an Irish Catholic would be a lady's maid in an aristocratic British household at the time, even if the lady is a half Jewish American.

The spelling of Irish surnames often signified a change in religion. I had neighbors named Molloy who were Catholic; a friend married a Malloy who is Protestant. Quinn is Catholic, Quin is Protestant.

by Anonymousreply 4902/04/2013

[quote] He is totally unattractive and

I agree. He looks like every pimply faced Irish kid I went to catholic school with, but Datalounge disagrees with us. They think he is scorching hot.

by Anonymousreply 5002/04/2013

[quote]I should think thy would mention his wife is half Jewish

There's no such thing. If your mother is Jewish, you're Jewish; if she isn't, you're not. Period.

by Anonymousreply 5102/04/2013

[quote]I can never understand one word those prisoners say to each other!

That's what closed captioning is for.

by Anonymousreply 5202/04/2013

Avatar is more realistic than this bullshit. Talk about aristocratic propaganda. Oh look how caring and wonderful "Lord" Grantham is to everyone beneath him. Give me a break.

I can only imagine the stupid fraus along with some of you thinking life was really like this.

by Anonymousreply 5302/04/2013

[quote]The 5th Earl of Roseberry married a Jewish woman (a Rothschild) and later became Prime Miniter

The great grandfather of my best friend, who is Jewish, was a close advisor to King George VI. I don't recall what his official post was, but he traveled everywhere with him. My friend has several photos of his grandfather with the king and Elizabeth on various official trips, inspecting the troops and such. This was a decade later than Downton Abbey's setting, but it's more indicative of the mindset of the era.

by Anonymousreply 5402/04/2013

[quote]Oh look how caring and wonderful "Lord" Grantham is to everyone beneath him.

Then you haven't been watching very carefully. Of all the characters, he is the one most stuck in the past, upholding propriety at all costs, bowing to titled people even at the expense of his own daughter's life, and intolerant of anyone in the lower classes, like Branson (ever the Irish chauffeur to him) or Ethel, the whore.

by Anonymousreply 5502/04/2013

"Look how caring and wonderful "Lord" Grantham is to everyone beneath him."

Seriously? Did you even watch the last episode?

One thing this series is NOT is an apologia for the British upper class.

by Anonymousreply 5602/04/2013

I think the O'Brien/Thomas feud goes back to the war when Thomas became "Sgt Barrow" and gave himself airs above everyone else in the household, including O'Brien. As long as O'Brien and Thomas were equals, they were pals. But when Thomas got above himself, O'Brien got pissed.

by Anonymousreply 5702/04/2013

I was getting tired of this show but the last few episodes have been really good. I love Tom Bronson too. He's fucking hot. We need to see some shirtless men please.

by Anonymousreply 5802/04/2013

[quote] There's no such thing. If

If only that we're true. My 100% Jewish MIL knows every Jew, every half Jew, every 1/4 Jew and every 1/8th Jew who is in the entertainment industry, in science, politics or whatever. If you have Jewish blood three generations back, you're a member of her Jewish Collection.

The new thing in her family now is to watch the UK's Who Do You Think You Are and rapid fire any hint at historical Jewishness. Because British people having Jewish blood fascinates them. Don't ask me why. I try to stay away from DNA politics.

by Anonymousreply 5902/04/2013

I realize tastes vary, but how could anyone not think Allen Leech is hot?

by Anonymousreply 6002/04/2013

We have couple of seriously deranged fangurls on this thread who attack people (typically Americans in general) at the slightest critique of the show.

Calm the fuck down fangirls or keep your rants to a British website. This one isn't limited to discussions drooling over some retarded British soap opera.

by Anonymousreply 6102/04/2013

[quote]There's no such thing. If your mother is Jewish, you're Jewish; if she isn't, you're not. Period.

That's the Orthodox position. That does not make it a fact. They are a minority.

by Anonymousreply 6202/04/2013

A lot of things were overlooked if you were rich. Ernest Cassel was enormously rich and a German born Jew who converted to Catholicism for his wife. He was a friend and adviser to Edward VII. His granddaughter married Mountbatten.

by Anonymousreply 6302/04/2013

I too am in lust with Allen Leech/Tom Branson. He looks like he has a nice butt on him, too:

by Anonymousreply 6402/04/2013

O'Brien and Thomas are in a death feud. She was once sympathetic to him, due to the fact that she has a beloved cousin who was "that way". But then a falling out and now she won't be happy till she brings him down.

by Anonymousreply 6502/04/2013

Sorry, let's try that again:

by Anonymousreply 6602/04/2013

[quote]Oh [R44], it's because Thomas did nothing to help her Nephew Alfred become first footman. And nobody holds on to a grudge like O'Brian. She Is delicious!

Also, Thomas started a rumor that O'Brien was leaving, which really set her off.

by Anonymousreply 6702/04/2013

One thing I wish they'd done (which I found it strange they haven't) was the mention of drastic change in women's fashion from 1912 (when the show started) to the current 1921. Hemlines raised from the ankle to just below the knee, and women completely discarded the corset post-WWI. By 1920 some women also started bobbing their hair. Sybil reappeared this season with a bob cut, but no one commented on it.

In the memoir HAVING OUR SAY: THE DELANY SISTERS' FIRST 100 YEARS, the sisters (who were born in 1889 and 1891) mentioned how in 1910 (when they were both 21 and 19) the skirts rose from the floor to the ankles and their father gave them a lecture about how only loose women would wear such revealing clothes and forbade them to raise their skirts. They also mentioned how the young men would whistle at a girl who wore ankle-length skirts when the wind would blow their skirts to reveal more of the leg.

Anyway, we the audience have seen the changes. If you compare the styles and hemlines from the first season to now, it's quite a change. I just wish the show would provide a better sense of what those changing times were like. Someone like Lady Violet, who we see is still dressed as a Victorian/Edwardian with her floor length dresses, would not approve of women cutting their hair and wearing short skirts, but she never says anything to her granddaughters.

by Anonymousreply 6802/04/2013

I think they have focused on the more important aspects of the changes, R68. Edith's wanting to work; Sybil's marrying out of her class; servants considering other careers. It makes perfect sense to show changes in fashion without discussing them. I do recall some talk of changing fashions in season 2.

by Anonymousreply 6902/04/2013

Agree with R68. It was a time of sweeping social change, not just political--and so fast. A comment here and there about the dramatic change in fashions would have dovetailed nicely with the story arc about women's roles changing after the war.

by Anonymousreply 7002/04/2013

[quote]I do recall some talk of changing fashions in season 2.

And who can forget the ruckus Lady Sybil caused with her fabulous harem pants right before the war?

by Anonymousreply 7102/04/2013

Sybil's husband *is* a dolt. Matthew sat there at the b'fast table with him and Robert and insulted him (I think including him in the same sentence with several servants by name.) This loser continued shoveling in the meal like he'd never seen food before.

by Anonymousreply 7202/04/2013

R71, it wasn't much of a ruckus. She showed up with her harem pants, everyone gives her this bemused expression, then the episode ends abruptly. It's never mentioned again in the following episode. I always wanted to know what the outcome was. Did they make Sybil go change again before dinner? What did they say?

Sometimes the episodes can be so frustrating 'cause they'll bring something interesting up at the end of an episode, only to never mention it again.

by Anonymousreply 7302/04/2013

Anyone else think the show theme sounds vaguely X-Files like? I missed the first 2 episodes of season 3, how did Ethel lose her child if at the end of season 2 she had decided to keep him and was there a big time jump between 2 and 3? Is there a thread about what's happening in season 4 over in England?

by Anonymousreply 7402/04/2013

Oh R74....

She didn't lose her child. Ever.

She kept her child in Season 2, turning down the grandparents' offer to take him.

She couldn't make a living and turned to prostitution in Season 3. She was ashamed of her life and asked Mrs. Crawley to get back in touch with his grandparents so she could give him up.

Season 4 hasn't started yet.

by Anonymousreply 7502/04/2013

I figured the grandparents took him, I just wondered if she gave him up willingly or if the bullied her into giving him to them. What was the big reveal about Matthew that fans in the states were upset got leaked because it aired in England first?

by Anonymousreply 7602/04/2013

Lord Grantham has no money and never worked a day in his life. Mathew should assign him to the kitchen.

by Anonymousreply 7702/04/2013

One detail along the way I've missed: Who's the person trying to bring down Bates in prison, and why?

by Anonymousreply 7802/04/2013

We have all missed that detail, R78.

by Anonymousreply 7902/04/2013

I think it's sloppy writing to suddenly resolve Bates' war wound. At least have a doctor fix it somehow, but instead it just disappears!

I'm tired of Carlson and his huge nose staring down everyone. Does he fancy himself an aristocrat? He's a butler, upholding a dying system of class and it doesn't benefit him except that he gets to stay a butler. Remember last season when he freaked when the European emperors started abdicating at the end of the war? He's stuck in a world that is fading away.

I love Edith and I hope they write her to become a Nellie Bly type adventuress, going on swashbuckling adventures in India or Africa (wearing pith helmet, of course)

Matthew has no chin and it's getting more apparent the fatter he gets.

Matthew will probably be killed off, else divorce Mary's bitchy skinny ass because the actor has not signed on for another season.

O'brien is absolutely delicious, I hate Thomas so I love the fact that he made such a deadly enemy of her.

The time progression is way too fast. 7 years in 3 seasons? I've never seen that in a TV series- yet besides fashions everyone looks pretty much the same.

by Anonymousreply 8002/04/2013

[quote]Matthew will probably be killed off,

Oh, how I envy your blissful ignorance.

by Anonymousreply 8102/04/2013

So how old was Charlie when Ethel gave him to his grandparents?

by Anonymousreply 8202/04/2013

Actually, r80, it's been 9 years: 1912-1921. Despite some nods to fashion, people have barely aged at all.

Slow down!

by Anonymousreply 8302/04/2013

I loved every second of season 1 & 2, but I have found season 3 tedious. Yes we had the drama of Sybil, but honestly, while I still enjoy it, DA isn't the big "must" it was a year ago.

All they do is eat or prepare to eat. You have the servants cooking & washing up, you have the artistocrats dining or dressing to dine. Even when I watched that movie with Antony Hopkins & Emma Thompson, or Gotsford Park it was more interesting than that.

There are portends. Daisy's last visit to the farm, William's father points out that the Downton Abbey way of ife will disappear and 40 years from now Daisy will be on her own. He wants her to do for herself.

I like Daisy. She's blossoming under the kind attention of Williams father. I do believe the one theme underpinning everything is the changing role of women in society during this time period of great upheaval.

by Anonymousreply 8402/04/2013

[R79] maybe the US version is indeed cut.

It was explained in the last thread.

by Anonymousreply 8502/04/2013

It seems PBS has made significant cuts to the ITV version that was seen in the UK. I am not sure how this effects the story lines.

by Anonymousreply 8602/04/2013

I think we can all agree Robert was correct in believing that an insulting Anglican clergy member would be just the thing to convince Branson not to bring his daughter up catholic.

by Anonymousreply 8702/04/2013

I just want to know if Lady Mary gets knocked up with Matthew Crawley's sperm. I did notice when I went to Amazon that in the UK there are 9 episodes and there are 7 episodes in the states.

by Anonymousreply 8802/04/2013

So over the whole Bates in prison thing. No nudity in a male prison? No wonder PBS is going broke.

by Anonymousreply 8902/04/2013

When are we going to see Thomas or Jimmy taking a bath??

by Anonymousreply 9002/04/2013

See? That's the thing. Even in Gotsford Park, we saw Emily Watson taking a bath.

by Anonymousreply 9102/04/2013

Does Thomas ever talk about the Oscar Wilde trial?

by Anonymousreply 9202/04/2013

Thomas is in for a bad surprise ... Too bad, thinking he has hope of having a (boy)friend makes him likeable.

I enjoy the O'Brien/Thomas feud.

Like someone stated in the previous thread : " Thomas is a nasty little bitch, but O'Brien has the real dorsal fin."

His downfall should be sad but fascinating to watch like a train wreck.

Since it's Downton Abbey, though, I don't think this valet will end as hopelessly as if he had been in real 1921 life.

by Anonymousreply 9302/04/2013

[quote]The time progression is way too fast. 7 years in 3 seasons? I've never seen that in a TV series-

Upstairs downstairs went from 1919 to 1930 in one season.

by Anonymousreply 9402/04/2013

R92, why would he? The Oscar Wilde trial happened in the 1890s, when it was still the Victorian era. On the show, it's been over 20 years later and the Edwardian age was in between. I'm not sure if people still spoke of it by then. It's not like now, where we're saturated with news and can find transcripts from trials from 10, 20, 50 years ago. Hell, even Jaon of Arc's trial transcripts are available at the click of a button.

But Leopold & Loeb happened in 1924. That was a big circus in the US. Probably not Britain, though.

by Anonymousreply 9502/04/2013

Her Ladyship's soap.

by Anonymousreply 9602/04/2013

What was the big cliffhanger with Matthew?

by Anonymousreply 9702/04/2013

The Thomas story has a delicious pay-off, when you get to it. Wait till you hear what the Earl says ....

by Anonymousreply 9802/04/2013

How interesting there is someone on this thread who thinks if you have something positive to say about the British and their TV, films , theater that that means you are a Brit. (or even suggesting that you would be at the very least a Canadian!). Would be hilarious if it wasn't such vitriolic posts from this individual. Scary.

I'm an American and never hesitate to praise what's good about American culture nor do I hesitate to attack it when it's awful. Same goes for the British culture. I love "Downton' and can't think of an American series that comes close to being as superbly done as this series.

by Anonymousreply 9902/04/2013

All three seasons are available to watch here. Here's the third season, including all the 10 episodes (just X out of the Play Now window, then press Play):

by Anonymousreply 10002/04/2013

Hear, hear, R99.

by Anonymousreply 10102/04/2013

Sorry, that was a link to Season 1. But just go to wear it says Season on the left, click on the triangle and go to Season 3.

by Anonymousreply 10202/04/2013

Thanks, R100.

by Anonymousreply 10302/04/2013


by Anonymousreply 10402/04/2013

There are only 9 episodes in Season 3, not 10. It says 10 in that link, but that's just episode 9 all over again.

by Anonymousreply 10502/04/2013

Bates losing his gimpy leg and Mrs. Patmore regaining her sight are nothing compared to Matthew's severed below the waist nerves to standing up and doing a jig in less than a season.

by Anonymousreply 10602/04/2013

Good God that Bates Character is dull downer!

by Anonymousreply 10702/04/2013

The lack of male pulchritude leads me to believe there are no gays in charge on set.

by Anonymousreply 10802/04/2013

Imagine Matthew giving Thomas a balled up gift of his used underwear.

by Anonymousreply 10902/04/2013

r51, r62 is correct, at least among Reform Jews since the 1980s officially, equal weight is given to the parentage of birthright Jews and Reform Jews constitute at the very least a plurality of observant Jews not only in the US but around the world. Rabbinical interpretation of scripture has concurred that if your father is Jewish you are as well. That said, when the character Cora Levinson was born and raised this new interpretation was not in place. This wouldn't have meant much to gentiles however, especially then; if you've got Jewish blood from either side, you're a Jew. I agree that there are things that are quite implausible about Downton Abbey, but it is still entertaining. Sybil's death wouldn't happen because once a baby is born it is nearly impossible in real life for a woman to die of it.

by Anonymousreply 11002/04/2013

Not a woman with eclampsia and certainly not a woman with eclampsia then.

by Anonymousreply 11102/04/2013

Very true, R110. And, did either of the esteemed doctors even mention magnesium sulfate? Magnesium sulfate was being used to prevent seizures caused by preeclampsia/eclampsia by then.

by Anonymousreply 11202/04/2013

Ciaran, I believe the doctor who knew Sibyl from birth (forgot his name), did mention magnesium sulfate as a treatment during the moments leading up to her death.

And did the doctor do as Maggie Smith requested and lie to Cora and Robert and downplay Sibyl's chances even if she had a Caesarian? That part was a little muddy to me.

by Anonymousreply 11302/04/2013

[quote]And did the doctor do as Maggie Smith requested and lie to Cora and Robert and downplay Sibyl's chances even if she had a Caesarian? That part was a little muddy to me.

Yeah, he did. I hated that, mainly 'cause I liked to see Cora angry (for once) and telling off her husband. I wish it would've lasted longer.

by Anonymousreply 11402/04/2013

So did something bad happen to Matthew in the English version of the show this season?

by Anonymousreply 11502/04/2013

[quote]Even in Gotsford Park,

What's up with the moron who thinks it's "Gotsford Park"?

by Anonymousreply 11602/04/2013

Episode five was good. I really liked that Cora showed some back bone but we knew it wouldn't last. I didn't like that the good Doctor lied to her. And Lord Grantham started to exhibit that shitty "I'm always right" attitude the minute the Dr. said Sybil would have died anyway. O'Brien is one devious devil. "He was practically purring". Oh, you wicked, wicked wench!

by Anonymousreply 11702/05/2013

Thanks R100/102. I just watched the rest of the episodes of season 3. Episode 9 was fabulous except of course for you know what.

by Anonymousreply 11802/05/2013

Whether or not a woman in the lastt century was considered Jewish if only her father was Jewsish is not really the point.

The point is that it was foolish of Fellowes to make that an aspect of Cora's character but then NEVER reference it....especially in discussions of Lady Sybil's baby's religion.

by Anonymousreply 11902/05/2013

I am not looking forward to 'you know what' on the last episode pf season three. I like the character.

by Anonymousreply 12002/05/2013

r120. like all good cliff hangers, the next scene could be in a rehab hospital. That's what makes it a cliff hanger. Mary and the baby look so Madonna (the original) and child.

The Queen was born in '26, it would set up the characters for WW2.

It would be great if they kept Maggie alive for like a 100 years outliving Robert, Matthew, and Matthew's and Mary's child. What a Greek Chorus. Forever Violet!

Is it a foregone conclusion that Sybil Jr. will become a Duchess Grantham marrying Mary and Matthew's son?

And what about Edith?

by Anonymousreply 12102/05/2013

R121, why would Sybil Jr. marry her first cousin?

by Anonymousreply 12202/05/2013

[quote]So did something bad happen to Matthew in the English version of the show this season?


by Anonymousreply 12302/05/2013

[quote]The point is that it was foolish of Fellowes to make that an aspect of Cora's character but then NEVER reference it....especially in discussions of Lady Sybil's baby's religion.

The article linked earlier makes it clear that it is NOT an aspect of Cora's character. SO why would they reference it?

by Anonymousreply 12402/05/2013

I have to admit, I'm glad that character, um, goes away in this season's final ep. Can't stand this character.

by Anonymousreply 12502/05/2013

Whether it's "part of Cora's character" or not -- being half Jewish would be duly noted by all the English people around her.

Do you really think they looked at Disraeli and the Rothschilds as Anglican?

Goy, please!

by Anonymousreply 12602/05/2013

Oy vey, enough of the Jewish angle. it's actually quite a boring argument. Back to the soap elements!

by Anonymousreply 12702/05/2013

It is part of the soap element. Catholic -- big problem. Grandpa Jewish? Never mentioned.

by Anonymousreply 12802/05/2013

Disreali was a good 60 years before this show takes place.

Besides both Rothschilds and Disreali were converts. Cora was born Episcopalian.

by Anonymousreply 12902/05/2013

This thread has been hijacked by two or three loons who're both aggressive Brit fanbois and obsessives of Jewish/Anglican politics.


by Anonymousreply 13002/05/2013

OK, here's my 2 cents worth: Tom will be killed in the ensuing Irish Civil War, Sybil "jr." will be raised by her Irish grandparents as Catholic and she will become a nun. Matthew and Mary's kid will be a boy but will be killed in World War II. Edith will never marry but will become an advice columnist for the lovelorn. Robert and Cora will die in a bombing raid in World War II and the nun Sybil, Jr. will inherit Downton Abbey and turn it back into a monastery after 400 odd years. Either that and/or she will meet Ethel's illegitimate son and marry him, in which case she would have to leave the convent. They have an offspring in the 1950s or maybe early 60s who, upon inheriting the now empty convent of Downton Abbey in the 1990s turns it into a gay resort complete with baths, sauna and disco balls!

by Anonymousreply 13102/05/2013

Am I the only who sees shades of Bill Murray in Lord Grantham?

And thank you so much to the fan who mentions Matthew's lack of a jawline. That's always troubled me but until now I thought I was the only one to notice it. I notice it because an ex is a dead ringer for Matthew except he has a fine, chiseled jaw inherited from his Danish side.

I did notice that most of the main characters are of Irish stock.

Am I alone in thinking that Matthew's mother Isobel and Lady Edith could pass for Jews on the show and not Cora?

by Anonymousreply 13202/05/2013

Cora has a ""Jew-line."

Matthew had no "Jaw-line."

Okay, we've summed up Downton Abbey. Move on.

by Anonymousreply 13302/05/2013

[quote]Am I alone in thinking that Matthew's mother Isobel and Lady Edith could pass for Jews on the show and not Cora?

R132/Goebbels.... whatever do you mean? you can't be for real.

Is it their slightly prominent and hooked noses? Or some other "jewish" marker?

by Anonymousreply 13402/05/2013

Um, r131, you forgot about Mary. Unless she's dead (which you didn't) account for, she'll inherit before Sybil Jr. And when they change the inheritance laws in 1926, she can petition the House of Lords to inherit the title of Countess of Grantham in her own right when her father dies.

by Anonymousreply 13502/05/2013

LOL, R133!

by Anonymousreply 13602/05/2013

Why are we assuming Cora's a Jew? I've known two Levinsons who weren't Jewish.

by Anonymousreply 13702/05/2013

I was just about to post that, r137. I don't believe Levinson is an exclusively Jewish name.

by Anonymousreply 13802/05/2013

No R85. The first season was cut down for American audiences because PBS felt the scenes about the details of the entail were tedious. Since it's become a hit, seasons 2 and 3 on PBS actually have additional scenes. Just little snippets here and there, but a few have been pretty helpful.

by Anonymousreply 13902/05/2013

I thought I remember Cora's Jewish father being mentioned (perhaps by Violet?) in Season 1, Episode 1 but nevertheless, with all the millions of names Julian Fellowes could have chosen, he surely could have come up with something less ambiguous (to some of you, not me!) than Levinson if he didn't want us to wonder about Cora's religious affiliations.

Correct, Levinson is not really of Jewish origin but it is precisely the kind of name a prosperous and assimilated Jewish businessman would have chosen to change his name to from Liebowitz in the 19th century.

by Anonymousreply 14002/05/2013

There was no line about Cora being Jewish in Season One.

by Anonymousreply 14102/05/2013

Tom was recently the chauffeur and at a table with Sybil's family he's completely out of his element in terms of culture and social status. At the time there was a lot of prejudice against irish catholics too along with the historic injustices, and he has a lot of strong resentments and opinions he's expected to avoid voicing around her family to keep things pleasant. I cut him a lot of slack.

Does anyone know if the actress who played Sybil wanted to exit the show? Is that why she was killed off, or just for the drama?

by Anonymousreply 14202/05/2013

Yes, the actress asked to leave. I can't find an article about it because they kept it well under wraps but Julian Fellowes was quoted in another article saying he would have loved to have been able to keep her.

She's young, she's gorgeous, she's got a great voice... small wonder she moved on.

Poor Edith, stuck at Downton til the bitter end.

by Anonymousreply 14302/05/2013

The actress who played Sybil was getting some interest from Hollywood - she'll be in the next Captain America movie - so I assume it was her decision to strike while the iron was hot.

by Anonymousreply 14402/05/2013

Sybil is REALLY goodlooking. The character can't be as fun to play as one of the less saintly ones either, so there's less to stick around for.

[quote] Poor Edith, stuck at Downton til the bitter end.

It's one of those good news bad news situations for the Edith actress isn't it? You're on a show that unexpectedly hits big in both the UK and America but the show also sets you in everyone's mind as the ugly loser girl. And she's not even all that unattractive for an actress outside of Hollywood, but the role and comparison with Mary and Sybil do her no favors.

by Anonymousreply 14502/05/2013

Sunday's episode is two hours long. Is that the conclusion of season three?

by Anonymousreply 14602/05/2013

There's a christmas special that is the very last of season 3, like season 2 had.

by Anonymousreply 14702/05/2013

Dan Stevens also asked to be let go, which I think was not a wise decision on his part. I don't know what kind of career he expects to have in Hollywood. His 'type' is kind of hard to cast in American movies and tv shows.

by Anonymousreply 14802/05/2013

r148, he'll end up as the requisite English villain in a couple of bad action flicks then end up back in Blighty doing panto.

by Anonymousreply 14902/05/2013

Why assume Dan Stevens wants a Hollywood career?

by Anonymousreply 15002/05/2013

English actors tend to look at it differently. They move between television, film and stage without much fuss. Helen Mirren is about to open a new play in London. They just work, they just play the parts. They're far more working actors, in general, than film stars. Dan Stevens will probably do very well, keeping busy at the career he chose. If he decided to make some quick cash to keep it comfortable, makes sense to me. I'm not a fan by any stretch but I think he's just making the most of a very lucky break. His stardom won't burn bright, probably, but I also doubt he'll be like some slab of beef who winds up selling real estate in Southern California, either.

by Anonymousreply 15102/05/2013

[quote] he'll end up as the requisite English villain in a couple of bad action flicks then end up back in Blighty doing panto.

He doesn't have the right look for a villain, which is unfortunate if he has any Hollywood hopes because that's where Hollywood usually likes to cast brits. His look and voice are too bland, and his face is too round and soft.

He might get cast in as the nice guy who gets the girl in some rom coms or period pieces.

by Anonymousreply 15202/05/2013

r147, the Christmas Special takes place in Summer. Oh, those wacky Brits.

by Anonymousreply 15302/05/2013

I don't want to see Thomas and Jimmy get it on; I want to see Tom and Jimmy get it on. That would be smoking hot.

by Anonymousreply 15402/05/2013

What is it about this show? I am literally obsessed with it. It makes me laugh, it makes me cry. It really makes me cry sometimes. The love stories draw me in. I hate O'Brien, I hate Thomas. Lady Mary has just the right touch of pathos.

I really think this might be my favorite television show of all time.

by Anonymousreply 15502/05/2013

[R23] It really is poorly written. I could cite many examples but one that stands out is O'Brien placing a bar of soap on the floor precisely where her ladyship will step on it, so that her ladyship will fall and most definitely miscarry? Please.

by Anonymousreply 15602/07/2013

[quote]I think a wealthy Jewish American would not have been at all acceptable at the time.

[quote]You are quite wrong. The 5th Earl of Roseberry married a Jewish woman (a Rothschild) and later became Prime Miniter The Earl of Carnarvon married an illegitimate daughter of a Rothschild.

It must be noted however that the Rothschild's were not ordinary Jews. They were an unbelievably wealthy banking family.

by Anonymousreply 15702/07/2013

Dan Stevens is this decade's Cary Elwes: pretty, but bland and completely average as an actor.

by Anonymousreply 15802/07/2013

Stevens looks great in costume dramas (like here and that recent remake of Sense & Sensibility in the Hugh Grant part) - that is his metier. He was ok when younger and prettier in the Line of Beauty, and played gay too. But he seems to be losing his bloom, and in his 30s now, so I cant see where he goes from here. Doing The Heiress on Broadway is really another costume part.

Most actors would kill to be in a show like Downton, deciding not to continue for a few series more could be career suicide, forcing the writer to change the storylines, Matthew after all was our main focus in the previous series.

by Anonymousreply 15902/07/2013

ITA with R159. DS is a fool to give up Downton Abbey. He is not handsome/masculine enough to be a Hollywood leading man, not sinister/interesting looking enough to be a villain. He lacks charisma and is getting a bit pudgy, quite noticeable in season 3 (those robes, ugh).

{quote}He might get cast in as the nice guy who gets the girl in some rom coms or period pieces.

Not a chance in hell, not with that chin (or lack of). At best he can hope to be cast in a supporting role as the nice, milquetoast guy who gets jilted.

by Anonymousreply 16002/08/2013



by Anonymousreply 16102/08/2013

And what about Edith?

by Anonymousreply 16202/08/2013

Dan Stevens is currently on Broadway with Jessica Chastain and David Strathairn in "The Heiress." Until tomorrow night's final performance, that is. I believe he took the role in May 2012.

by Anonymousreply 16302/08/2013

When I read all these comments about Dan Stevens, I think of Clive Owen. He was HUGE. He was the "It" guy. Now where is he? And Dan Stevens isn't HUGE. He isn't the "It" guy. So I agree. I think he was wrong to walk away frm DA. Maybe he wanted the experience of Broadway, but honestly, Broadway would've still been available to him in another year or so.

I hate O'Brien too, but I have changed toward Thomas. I have compassion for him. His character has more nuance this season. I want to give him hugs. And more.

by Anonymousreply 16402/08/2013

What caused O'Brien & Thomas to fall out anyway?

by Anonymousreply 16502/08/2013

Thomas insults O'Brien's nephew, Alfred (the new footman), and refuses to help him out. O'Brien, the snake that you should NEVER step on, gets royally pissed off at Thomas, and she proceeds to lay a trap to FUCK HIM UP.

by Anonymousreply 16602/08/2013

O'Brien is my favorite character. I liked it better when she and Thomas teamed up, especially to cause trouble for the insufferable martyr, Bates.

by Anonymousreply 16702/08/2013

Thx r166. I hate that Thomas is being crushed this season when he finally shows some decency.

by Anonymousreply 16802/09/2013

Thomas needs to be given an enema...

by Anonymousreply 16902/09/2013

Oh please, all you Thomas lovers. He tried to sabotage O'brien by planting the rumor that she planned to quit. You fuck with the bull, you get the horns. He should know that by now.

That said, I want Thomas and Jimmy to take a bath together in one of those old Victorian tubs.

by Anonymousreply 17002/09/2013

When Jimmy won at the fair, got drunk and was tailed by the thugs, it was Thomas the stalker who stepped in and took the thrashing. He would have much rather given Jimmy a BJ under the bridge.

Thomas and Jimmy are like Rose and Charlie in 2.5 Men.


by Anonymousreply 17102/09/2013

In many respects Thomas is creepy. I laughed at that scene after the funeral where the servants were all sitting around the table and Jimmy says something sympathetic to Thomas who uses the opportunity to then squeeze Jimmy's knee. It was creepy desperate.

by Anonymousreply 17202/09/2013

Ever since he became a nurse and helped Lady Sybil at the hospital, and then broke down & wept for her, I've felt a huge change of heart for Thomas.

O'Brien is just evil. I love that even upstairs, they know what a conniving, evil bitch she is. The only reason she hasn't been fired is because Cora loves her. Dumb assed Cora.

I also beg to differ. I think things had turned sourbetween OBrien & Thomas before O'Brien brought her nephew in. I just can't remember the conversation. It was after Cora miscarried.

by Anonymousreply 17302/09/2013

Okay, I've watched all of the episodes, including the 2012 Christmas special. Now what do I do until Season 4 starts?!

by Anonymousreply 17402/09/2013

Now. Maaaaaary. We mustn't cause a scandal or your grandMUHther would have a fit.

(tight smile, head tilted down, eyes looking up)

by Anonymousreply 17502/09/2013

Cora's one of the most interesting characters to me because I cannot pin her down.

Maybe it's bad writing or the character's evolving but I can't figure her out.

On one hand, she's all like let the ex prostitute serve us lunch. On the other hand she bluntly called Mary damaged goods for whatever she did with the Turk.

I find her kind of enigmatic in her way but as I said, maybe it's just bad writing.

by Anonymousreply 17602/09/2013

I've always found Cora to be a passive-aggressive cunt, but people here tend to think she's one of the nicer characters (behind the late Sybil).

by Anonymousreply 17702/09/2013

I think I remember that, R173. I think he said something like, "why would you care about her" (meaning Cora), or something to that effect.

by Anonymousreply 17802/09/2013

Poor Edith just needs a good poke, and she'd mellow out.

O'Brian is a cunt, but a fun cunt.

I want to put Bates through a meat grinder.

by Anonymousreply 17902/09/2013

I don't find her interesting at all, R176. She is a complete bore and EM's simpering baby talk makes me go mental.

I don't find it contrary at all that Cora would consider her own daughter "damaged goods" but would be accepting of the servant/prostitute. They are of completely different worlds with different standards of expected conduct.

It would be like a Victorian woman traveling to Africa and being completely accepting/tolerant of the bare breasted women there, but at the same time appalled if a woman of her own class and breeding shows as much as a bare ankle.

by Anonymousreply 18002/09/2013

I've been watching season 3 on PBS, but they don't have episodes 6 and 7 posted yet. Where can I see them on-line?

by Anonymousreply 18102/09/2013

[quote]Okay, I've watched all of the episodes, including the 2012 Christmas special. Now what do I do until Season 4 starts?!

Masturbate furiously.

by Anonymousreply 18202/09/2013

Don't let Carson find out!

by Anonymousreply 18302/09/2013

Mary had a little lamb Little lamb Little lamb

And anyone that Mary sent... His head was sure to roll.

by Anonymousreply 18402/09/2013

Good news: Theo James, who played the hot but ill-fated Mr. Pamuk in Season 1, is returning to tv in CBS's Golden Boy. Airs late Feb. It likely will be cancelled, but we can enjoy looking at him til then:

by Anonymousreply 18502/09/2013

I looked up what happens to Matthew and it was depressing. It would suck if his deciding he needed his "freedom" turns out to ruin the show.

by Anonymousreply 18602/09/2013

R181, you can watch the remaining episodes here. Just X out of the Play Now window and press Play. For the desired season/episode, just click on the triangle next to Season or Episode on the left. Here's Season 3 Episode 6:

by Anonymousreply 18702/09/2013

I'm casual friends with the creator/writer of Golden Boy. He's a great, great guy. Can't wait for that show.

by Anonymousreply 18802/09/2013

Oh, yah.

Luvs me sum Mr Pamuk!

by Anonymousreply 18902/09/2013

All I have to add to this thread is that I want Ed Speleers (Jimmy) to sit on my face. That is all.

by Anonymousreply 19002/09/2013

R186, I think what happens to Matthew will breathe new life into the show. Opens up a whole new slate of possibilities.

by Anonymousreply 19102/09/2013

Is it true that Sybil's husband Tom is portrayed by a gay actor?

by Anonymousreply 19202/09/2013

It is on DL. Can't speak for the real world.

by Anonymousreply 19302/09/2013

You'd think if the actor playing Matthew was planning on moving on to bigger and better things, he'd have skipped a few meals. He doesn't carry extra weight well.

by Anonymousreply 19402/09/2013

I hope Edith becomes a 'Thoroughly Modern' emancipated woman having affairs and adventures.

by Anonymousreply 19502/09/2013

LOL R194

by Anonymousreply 19602/09/2013

I agree. It's nice to see Edith happy and appreciated for once. Love the idea of her as a flapper who flaunts conventions the 20s.

by Anonymousreply 19702/09/2013

How old is everyone supposed to be? The first series started in 1912. Now they're in 1921 or so. To make them still young, Mary would have to have been 17-18, Edith 16, and Sybil 15 in series one. Otherwise, they'd all be in their 30s by now.

And Matthew HAS to be at least 35 - because he was employed as an attorney in series one. He would have had to be mid to late 20s for that.

by Anonymousreply 19802/09/2013

[quote]How old is everyone supposed to be?

According to Wiki, Edith was born in 1894, Mary in 1892, and Matthew in 1890, which would've made then 18, 20, and 22 at the start of the series and 27, 29, and 31 at the end of Season 3.

by Anonymousreply 19902/09/2013

I just realized while searching for birth dates, Mary didn't have to change her last name since she and Matthew have the same last name. It didn't occur to me while watching the show. haha

by Anonymousreply 20002/09/2013

Matthew had to have been born earlier than 1890. In 1912 he was an attorney who had been praticing for a few years already. The ages everyone is supposed to be on this show don't really make sense, because it's been about 9 years from S1 to S3. I guess we're just to supposed to chalk it up to dramatic license, which is fine by me.

by Anonymousreply 20102/09/2013

When Sybil died her father said she was only 24yrs old.

by Anonymousreply 20202/09/2013

So Sybil was a 15 year old in harem pants?

by Anonymousreply 20302/09/2013

Sybil was nice and all, but she was fucking boring. Glad the good two shoes on DA are quickly purged (that's right...Lavinia!).

by Anonymousreply 20402/10/2013

Qu'est-ce qui va se passer avec la mère de Matthew après sa mort?

by Anonymousreply 20502/10/2013

"Qu'est-ce qui va se passer avec la mère de Matthew après sa mort?"

Ethel will comfort her, in more ways than one. Isobel's sapphic desires will be awakened and focused on tasting the Dowager Countess of Grantham's lady ham. Violet will expire while experiencing her first orgasm, with two of Isobel's fingers still in her snatch.

by Anonymousreply 20602/10/2013

Is there really only one more episode after tonight's? And then the Christmas Special? When will that be aired?

It feels like we've only just gotten started.

by Anonymousreply 20702/10/2013

LOL! That's nasty, R206. I nearly fell of my chair laughing!

And Lady Mary Crawley will find comfort in the burly bearish arms of Mr. Carson, who'll use his horsecock to fuck the depression out of her. They'll nickname the baby "Creepy" (to be consistent with the odd familial nicknames, such as that of cousin Shrimpy), and will fuck each other silly while picnicking in the meadows as little Creepy Crawley picks daisies from Papa's and Auntie Sybil's graves.

by Anonymousreply 20802/10/2013

and then Ethel the prosticook will have to enlist help in moving the Dowager Countess' body. She enlists Daisy, who helps slide the enpurpled cadaver down the hallway, proclaiming over and over, "But ah dorn unnerstaaan."

by Anonymousreply 20902/10/2013

I know you were going for the ick factor, R208, but Mary/Carson is kind of a turn on. Especially since she would have to work hard to seduce him. He would fight his attraction because it just isn't "proper." But then once he gives in he'll be an animal in bed. Season 4 will be all about their angst, guilt and unbridled passion.

by Anonymousreply 21002/10/2013

Meanwhile, Ms. O'Brien will place her lethal bar of soap on the staff staircase...just so...hoping to take advantage of Mr. Bates's gimp leg. "Threaten me, will ye?" She fumes to herself.

Unfortunately, Jimmy takes that flight of stairs several minutes later, and snaps his ankle after slipping on the bar of soap. Thomas finds him and carries him quickly up the stairs to his bedroom. He tears off all of Jimmy's clothes so that he can take a better look at his ankle, and administers some gentle...massaging...that makes Jimmy gasp and squirm.

But they hear noises coming from the stairs, and Thomas quietly goes to inspect. Why, it's Ethel and Daisy carrying an oddly looking bundle!

But Jimmy calls out hoarsely, "My ankle is throbbing...", and without further thought, Thomas shuts and locks the bedroom door.

by Anonymousreply 21102/10/2013


by Anonymousreply 21202/10/2013

It looks like Dan Stevens is tied to the costume drama. Today's Sunday Times here in England has a story that he is lined up to star in a new BBC production as Mr Darcy of "Pride & Prejudice" in a new drama based on "Death comes to Pemberley", PD James' highly praised novel about the P&P characters 5 years later.

Personally I can't see Dan as Mr Darcy, he does not seem to project being arrogant enough.

Producers now may be unwilling to cast him in further series in case he decides to walk after a season or so.

by Anonymousreply 21302/10/2013

With a few more pounds in his hips and ass, maybe Dan Stevens can play the lead in Pride and Prejudice -- Elizabeth Bennett

by Anonymousreply 21402/10/2013

I like Prosticook. Funnily enough, that storyline turned out to have a really good arc and resolved quite nicely. I thought the actress was done after last season and didn't really care, but she played the part really well and it was one of the story lines about Downstairs I actually got in to.

Bates, on the other hand... Zzzzzzzzzzz. They milked that cow so long the udders came off. Over played a good thing.

One thing I'd like to understand is why O'Brien is as evil as she is. There's nobody she won't fuck over and I don't really know why. Even a single sentence... even just 'Rosebud'... but give me something understand what spawned this marvellous evil.

by Anonymousreply 21502/10/2013

Next week! Season finale.

by Anonymousreply 21602/10/2013

This is all so typical. The American version is cut and the British version is uncut.

by Anonymousreply 21702/10/2013

I think Matthew leaving will open up a whole new chapter of the show as well. The Mary widow (pun) can have all sorts of romantic entanglements, but in the end, I would like to see Tom and Mary come together. They have nice chemistry. Downton's future is up in the air with Matthew the heir apparent out of the loop. If Mary is pregnant with his child, does not this mean she can finally become the owner of Downton as guardian to their little boy?

I've thoroughly enjoyed this season more than I did the second, which was just a whizzying hodgepodge of silly events piled atop the other. Story arcs lasted a little more appropriately this time around; the Dowager had a more pronounced active role in storylines; Lord Grantham was written more appropriately to that character's social standing; Ethel is emerging to be quite an interesting little bird; and at least three storylines - Sybil's death, Ethel's retribution, and Thomas' outing - were provactive and deeply emotional. The only dud has been Bates and Anna: a tacked on story that went on far too long without a stunning resolution for pay-off. Without a carefully constructed story revolving around Vera Bates which could have been quite gothic, that story has been DA's worst. With Bates now back in the manor mix, hopefully they can save this character.

I still would love it if it turned out Bates did, in fact, kill his wife ....

by Anonymousreply 21802/10/2013

r172, gay men came across as creepy desperate because of the repression, self-hatred and fear that informed their lives. Give Thomas some credit for making such a bold expression of communication and connection.

by Anonymousreply 21902/10/2013

I can't, R219. They were all moaning about dead Sybil and Thomas takes the opportunity to cop a feel (the latest of many, all of which resulted in a scream of NOT GONNA HAPPEN, THOMAS.)

That said, I admired Thomas giving another character a dignified, genuine response when discussing his 'nature' (not sure if it's aired yet... I've seen the whole series.) I am sympathetic to Thomas' circumstances but the character is basically unpleasant in the main.

by Anonymousreply 22002/10/2013

Have all you DA fans seen the recent fab photo of your favorite cast members in the NYC subway station that's making the rounds on FB?

by Anonymousreply 22102/10/2013


by Anonymousreply 22202/10/2013

Looks like Bates has his hand in Anna's cookie jar!

by Anonymousreply 22302/10/2013

Y'all know that stuffy old Mr.Carson is married to DL fave Imelda Staunton IRL, right?

by Anonymousreply 22402/10/2013

He's married to Dolores Umbridge!!!

by Anonymousreply 22502/10/2013

Whose the dark, hairy,scruffy, hot young man standing beside Lord Grantham??????????????????

by Anonymousreply 22602/10/2013

It's "Thomas" R226

by Anonymousreply 22702/10/2013

Rob James-Collier, R226

by Anonymousreply 22802/10/2013

Poor Thomas.

by Anonymousreply 22902/10/2013

Maggie Smith in full chicken lady mode tonight.

by Anonymousreply 23002/10/2013

[quote]The American version is cut and the British version is uncut.

How was the American version cut? Anything major?

by Anonymousreply 23102/10/2013

Poor Edith. She's sooooooooooooo fucking desperate.

by Anonymousreply 23202/10/2013

the soap!!!

by Anonymousreply 23302/10/2013

O'Brien's face, in both scene, was fantastic.

But it just occurred to me, Bates and Anna better watch their backs next season. O'Brien plays a long game.

Maybe the series will end with her pulling a Mrs. Danvers and burning the whole damn pile down.

by Anonymousreply 23402/10/2013

The previews made it look as though Thomas and Branson have a fling. That would be the sexiest thing possible. And if we get to see the British version, we get to see it uncut.

by Anonymousreply 23502/10/2013

I think you're mistaken, r235. That was somebody else walking in on Branson shirtless.

by Anonymousreply 23602/10/2013

It was Matthew walking in on Branson.

by Anonymousreply 23702/10/2013

That was a new slutty maid.

by Anonymousreply 23802/10/2013

I can't wait until the show reaches the '60s and Lady Edith is tearing around the county in a Jaguar while wearing a Vivien Westwood catsuit.

by Anonymousreply 23902/10/2013

I do so hope that next season they give Thomas a proper love interest. I'd like to see him happy, at least for a few episodes.

by Anonymousreply 24002/10/2013

[quote]I can't wait until the show reaches the '60s and Lady Edith is tearing around the county in a Jaguar while wearing a Vivien Westwood catsuit.

a) Edith will be in late 60s or early 70s by then. Not sure we would want to see her in a cat suit at that age.

b) Vivien Westwood did not start designing clothes until the 1970s.

by Anonymousreply 24102/10/2013

Entertaining to see two grand Victorian melodramas referenced tonight. "East Lynne" with Ethel and her baby, and "Jane Eyre" with Edith and her editor who's stuck with the mad wife.

by Anonymousreply 24202/10/2013

Now HERE was an American actress who could equal Maggie Smith!

by Anonymousreply 24302/10/2013

Mary Quandt miniskirt, then.

by Anonymousreply 24402/10/2013

[quote]Edith will be in late 60s or early 70s by then. Not sure we would want to see her in a cat suit at that age.

I don't know. It's how you carry it.

by Anonymousreply 24502/10/2013

[R222] Thomas (Rob) is gorgeous!!!

by Anonymousreply 24602/10/2013

Ivy, the cook's assistant, walked in on a shirtless Branson in the coming attractions.

by Anonymousreply 24702/10/2013

Wasn't Ivy. It's a slutty new maid. I've seen the episode.

Ivy is pretty, though.

by Anonymousreply 24802/10/2013

Not to spoil anything, but Lord Grantham's reaction to the Thomas "scandal" is priceless.

And probably infuriated the graduates of one renowned English boarding school.

by Anonymousreply 24902/10/2013

Everybody knows about Eton and English private school boys.

by Anonymousreply 25002/10/2013

Best episode yet and two hours long! Each character's storyline was engaging for a change.

Finally felt like the show found its rhythm it screeches to a halt next week.

by Anonymousreply 25102/10/2013

[quote]Entertaining to see two grand Victorian melodramas referenced tonight.

You forgot Chu Chin Chow!

by Anonymousreply 25202/10/2013

Well said, r251. I really enjoyed the show tonight.

by Anonymousreply 25302/10/2013

Did Carson really assure the investigators at the cricket match that Lord Grantham would "get to the bottom of this"?

by Anonymousreply 25402/10/2013

I thought there was just a slight hint that Mary might hookup with Branson after Matthew's out of the picture.

by Anonymousreply 25502/10/2013

Mary wouldn't even consider a liaison with Branson. She's very 'proper'. But, given there is zero consistency with the characters in this nonsense, it will more than likely happen.

by Anonymousreply 25602/10/2013

No, r254, he said he would "get the bottom of this." But then he couldn't find Thomas.

by Anonymousreply 25702/11/2013

I smell a hunting accident in the offing...

by Anonymousreply 25802/11/2013

Wow! David Robb, who plays Dr. Clarkson, is a hot daddy!

by Anonymousreply 25902/11/2013

Thomas has a warm, moist and inviting anus

by Anonymousreply 26002/11/2013

David Robb was quite a hottie in his day, when a young actor. Good to see he has kept working without ever becoming a big name.

by Anonymousreply 26102/11/2013

The entire Thomas-is-gay storyline became just as absurd as I thought it would be.

He's exposed as gay AND molesting a staff member and he somehow ends up with a fucking promotion?

And how many more scenes did we need with various cast members insisting that Thomas's "condition" was no fault of his own and that he was born that way? BULL fucking SHIT.

They would have nearly strung the poor guy up. He would have been sacked, no reference, no days-long debate over and certainly no proper, tradition-loving English lord coming to his defense.

The last episode played like some ridiculous sitcom attempting to teach young people not to bully the gays. It was just so friggen silly. One minute you have 'Lord Grantham' extolling the virtues of old world Britain and the aristocracy and showing cluelessness on how the servants get along with one another downstairs... the next he's coming out of the blue and telling his valet he wants to keep the homo AND promote him. Sheesh.

by Anonymousreply 26202/11/2013

Who cares R262. I was worried for Thomas and felt bad for him so I'm glad. I wonder if Bates taking up for him will turn him nicer.

by Anonymousreply 26302/11/2013

Does any one have a hint if season 4 will start up right where season 3 left off or will it fast forward a year or so?

by Anonymousreply 26402/11/2013

Great episode, r262, and what the fuck is wrong with you? The damn thing is a television soap opera made in the 21st century. So it's politically correct, big deal. Go watch the history channel if you want to see gays tortured and jailed.

by Anonymousreply 26502/11/2013

My favorite groan this season happened with the confrontation between father and son-in-law where LG mentioned investing in Ponzi schemes.

Downton is set to be profitable and stable as the series chronicles the 20th Century.

Next stop prohibition and the Depression? Does Downton rye supply Canadian bootleggers?

[Yes, I know it's 1922.]

by Anonymousreply 26602/11/2013

OMG, thank you R262. It WAS ridiculous. That kind of "tolerance" doesn't even exist today, let alone in the 1920's. One minute Lord Grantham can't abide his wife and daughters dining in the the presence of a *gasp* harlot, the next he's all accepting and encouraging of the staff homo. LMAO. A little consistency with historical accuracy would be nice.

by Anonymousreply 26702/11/2013

Don't be ridiculous, homosexuality was not talked about but educated people understood it. They were not Neanderthals.

by Anonymousreply 26802/11/2013

LOL R239!

by Anonymousreply 26902/11/2013

Yeah R267 and let's not forget how many men experimented in school. They were not unfamiliar with the homosex.

by Anonymousreply 27002/11/2013

[quote]One minute Lord Grantham can't abide his wife and daughters dining in the the presence of a *gasp* harlot, the next he's all accepting and encouraging of the staff homo. LMAO.

Because Lord Grantham himself got some back in boarding school, and understands the pleasures of it. His comment about all the passes made to him at Eton was very telling. He must have gone for it at least once. And THAT is historically accurate about aristocrats.

by Anonymousreply 27102/11/2013

Hey Mary @ R265, nobody wanted to see a character tortured and jailed. I'm gay so yes, I'd like to see the way we all know gay men and women were treated at that time portrayed at least mildly realistically.

by Anonymousreply 27202/11/2013

People were human beings at that time. All gay men were not thrown in prison. Thay did have people who loved them and protected them, even if they did not approve.

by Anonymousreply 27302/11/2013

But Ethel wasn't a "human being", R273?

by Anonymousreply 27402/11/2013

Besides all that, the family wanted no scandal. Think about it.

by Anonymousreply 27502/11/2013

I enjoyed the way the show handeled the Thomas situation.

The difference between Ethel's treatment and Thomas' treatment is about the inequality of women versus men in 1921.

I can easily understand Lord Grantham having a problem with her but not him.


by Anonymousreply 27602/11/2013

I have forgotten, or did I just miss how Bates knew about O'Brien and the soap.

Can someone fill me in?

by Anonymousreply 27702/11/2013

Have they already started shooting Season 4? I can't wait!

by Anonymousreply 27802/11/2013

I disliked this episode... O'Brien had already accomplished her goal by embarrassing Thomas and ensuring his ouster. It didn't seem natural that she would continue turning the screw to ensure that Thomas would be unable to get employment again... utterly destroying his life. And of course while everyone may have known about Thomas, it wasn't natural that they were so sympathetic to this particular situation - kissing Jimmy as he slept. That's creepy, even today!

by Anonymousreply 27902/11/2013

The two-hour “Downton Abbey” that just aired on PBS was broadcast in Great Britain as two separate episodes, the second of which was the season three finale. After that bucolic cricket match, audiences across the Atlantic had to wait two long months before seeing the Christmas special, which will air next week on PBS. I raise this matter of scheduling not to revel in the fact that we Americans don’t have to wait patiently for our next “Downton” fix, but to point out that “Downton Abbey” is now the kind of show that introduces its audience to a bratty, bright young thing engaged in foolish and clichéd nonsense in the season finale, rather than giving some more screen time to one of the dozens of underserved characters we already know and care about.


by Anonymousreply 28002/11/2013

The upper echelons have always been understanding of homosexuality. You were judged by your class.

by Anonymousreply 28102/11/2013

Yes, Thomas is unpleasant however I'm starting to find that new footman (James?) to be an annoying little shit easily influenced by the evil O'Brien. At least Thomas was her equal in evil shenanigans.

The other character, the cousin from London, is also a dumb, annoying twit.

by Anonymousreply 28202/11/2013

The cousin from London is not from London.

by Anonymousreply 28302/11/2013

Is the young bratty twit the one who walks in on a shirtless BRanson next week?

Otherwise, why is she there?

For a show with unerringly beautiful taste in clothes, her look seemed rather confusing. And no bobbed hair for that type?

Was she wearing a new set of dentures/

by Anonymousreply 28402/11/2013

Is Shirley MacLaine ever coming back (not that I miss her)? The family never said an official goodbye, did they?

I wonder if they realized how awful she was and cut her last scenes.

by Anonymousreply 28502/11/2013

[quote]I have forgotten, or did I just miss how Bates knew about O'Brien and the soap.

What Thomas had given up fighting and was bawling about his situation, Bates implored Thomas to give him the ammunition so he, Bates, could fight on Thomas' behalf. Next, armed with the secret phrase "her ladyship's soap" (but not knowing what it meant), he invited O'Brien over for a little chat.

by Anonymousreply 28602/11/2013

Homosexuality and certainly bi-sexality were not exactly embraced by the upper class and the aristocracy but it existed and "winked at". They would certainly pretend to be appalled if a scandal connected to sexual shenanigans were made public but , privately, they were accepting of it. The rise of the middle class changed all that. Suddenly, it was a stigma to be gay or bi-sexual on that level of society. This was not only true in Europe but in the U.S. as well.

by Anonymousreply 28702/11/2013

I hear a man named Charles Ponzi has an investment fund that we would do well to explore.

by Anonymousreply 28802/11/2013

Does anyone else think that Jimmy is secretly attracted to men. That's why he was so disturbed by Thomas's attention and physical proximity. Most straight guys wouldn't think anything of Thomas's attentiveness (not the kissing but the earlier stuff). It's been my experience that straight men almost never think that other men are interested in them sexually; their minds don't go there unless explicitly confronted. That's also why O'Brien's manipulations of him landed so effectively; he had reason to worry what other people thought. This is a show in which every line and every action, unfortunately, point to outcomes in the plot. Beautiful Jimmy can have any girl he wants but doesn't have a girlfriend, never mentions having or having had one, turns down pretty Ivy, etc. I think he's scared to death that Thomas somehow sees through him.

Another thought: Dr. Clarkson. Is he married? I've never heard anything about a wife. Does anyone else remember -- at the end of season one, I think -- that he took it upon himself to look after Thomas by asking Thomas to work for him in the medical corps toward the end of the war? There was a suggestion in the language he used and the camerawork that his interest in Thomas was more than altruistic.

by Anonymousreply 28902/11/2013

The few references we've heard about Cora's bachelor brother in NYC seem to indicate he is gay.

I do hope he makes an appearance next season, fucks Thomas and brings him back to The Big Apple with him.

by Anonymousreply 29002/11/2013

The whole nonsense about Jimmy blackmailing Carson into not giving Thomas a reference was ridiculous. Who the hell is Jimmy? I'll tell you who he is -- he's Charlie Nobody!

Carson, on the other hand, is a respectable senior household member of the village's richest, most powerful family. All Carson had to do was tell Jimmy if he went to the police, perhaps some stories about Jimmy's conduct might be fabricated -- and sworn to by other staff members -- and the upshot would be that Jimmy was a criminal who stole from the staff and household and who was thought to be not only a criminal, but insane. He'd be locked up for good.

And Thomas has been caught stealing, planting false evidence on Bates (a tired plot device used twice by Fellowes), undermining bates at every chance he gets, prankng her lady ship and O'Brien and now molesting the junior footman. And all of a sudden, Lord Grantham feels sorry for the poor devil and promotes him?

And I highly doubt O'Brien would have told Thomas about the soap. Even Her Evilness was horrified by her own actions. She wouldn't go blabbing to Thomas about it.

by Anonymousreply 29102/11/2013

LOVED the Ponzi reference!

by Anonymousreply 29202/11/2013

I was actually afraid for a moment that Thomas was going to commit suicide

by Anonymousreply 29302/11/2013

r291 right. She never told Thomas about the soap she just claims to have her own reasons. Big mistake I caught.

by Anonymousreply 29402/11/2013

Thomas told him, R277.

by Anonymousreply 29502/11/2013

Also, Bates and Anna should both have remembered that Cora miscarried after slipping on the soap while being attended by O'Brien. Why would they both have been so clueless as to what "her Ladyship's soap" meant?

by Anonymousreply 29602/11/2013

Parenthood...the on and on-ness of it.

Well it WAS a full hour....everyday.

by Anonymousreply 29702/11/2013

Next time, on Downton Anus, Thomas and Dr. Clarkson move in together...

by Anonymousreply 29802/11/2013

I wish the queen (or frau?) who keeps attempting witty prose and singing as "Dowager Countess" would give it a fucking rest.

It a'int funny, Mary. It never was. Let's guess: You're the same troll who posts all those "M" replies, aren't you?

by Anonymousreply 29902/11/2013

[quote]After that bucolic cricket match, audiences across the Atlantic had to wait two long months before seeing the Christmas special, which will air next week on PBS.

Two long months? Those of us in the US who are Internet-savvy watched the whole damn thing 20 minutes after it was broadcast in the UK. Who fucking waits for the networks to air shit anymore?

by Anonymousreply 30002/11/2013

Some of us have lives and have no problem waiting for a show to air on TV.

by Anonymousreply 30102/11/2013

Please a link to the Christmas special!

by Anonymousreply 30202/11/2013

"Back in the knifebox, Miss Sharpie!"

This deserves to become a Datalounge catchphrase.

by Anonymousreply 30302/11/2013

I wish the show wasn't so modernly politically correct. Approaching certain subjects with a 1920s sensibility would not only be more realistic, it would also make for better drama. It was a complex world back then. Instead of looking at things with an eye towards dramatic realism, Julian Fellowes always opts for the quick, simple, happy resolution to complex social issues.

And I nearly choked on my sherry when I heard Dan Stevens' character tell Lady Edith, "Well, you have stuff to do."

Stuff to do? Bitch please. My grandparents were from the UK and I never heard them or their friends use the word "stuff" even after being in America for a few decades. In fact, I've never heard their children -- my mother, aunts and uncles -- use the word "stuff" in that context. I've only heard them say, "Stuff and nonsense."

by Anonymousreply 30402/11/2013

I love Lady Mary.

Next time my partner wants sex and I'm not into it I plan to say this as my excuse

"London was more tiring than I anticipated"

by Anonymousreply 30502/11/2013

I'm tired of R300's l33t h4X0r shtick, but I would add that the entire season has already been released in the US on DVD and digital download. Available at your local library or from iTunes.

by Anonymousreply 30602/11/2013

[quote]I wish the show wasn't so modernly politically correct. Approaching certain subjects with a 1920s sensibility would not only be more realistic

Indeed, I found all of the "it's not Thomas' fault" speeches a bit contrived. At the same time, gay servants were hardly a a scandal in that world (gay servants were less likely to run off an get married or get some girl pregnant and were assumed to pay enough attention to detail to do a good job). Still the defence of Thomas was over-the-top, and next weeks plot involving Thomas and Jimmy is plain ridiculous.

by Anonymousreply 30702/11/2013

Or free on the Internet, r306!

by Anonymousreply 30802/11/2013

Oops, as of today the digital download goes only as far as episode 8. Episode 9 (aired as the Christmas special in the UK) hasn't been released yet on iTunes.

The whole thing is indeed available on DVD, however.

by Anonymousreply 30902/11/2013

The Christmas special is available from Amazon Instant Video if you buy a season pass, but not à la carte. Maybe iTunes has a similar deal.

by Anonymousreply 31002/11/2013

Thomas wasn't promoted r262, The other gayling was.

by Anonymousreply 31102/11/2013

I don't think there's a Christmas episode next week on PBS. The link posted a few pages back says it goes to episode 9 and there was nothing about Christmas. Episode 10 was listed but did not play.

by Anonymousreply 31202/11/2013

[quote]Please a link to the Christmas special!

Here you go! Just X out of the Play Now window and press Play.

by Anonymousreply 31302/11/2013

R312, There are only nine episodes. That was the Christmas episode, so called because it aired at Christmastime in the UK, but it has nothing to do with Christmas. The whole episode is the family going up north for a holiday, but it takes place in the summer.

by Anonymousreply 31402/11/2013

Thomas was promoted to under-butler. The other guy was promoted to head footman so Thomas will be his boss only under Carson.

by Anonymousreply 31502/11/2013


The believability of it was that it happened years ago. (Story wise.)

by Anonymousreply 31602/11/2013

Episode 9 is the finale, the 2012 Christmas special, so called only because it aired on Christmas in the UK.

by Anonymousreply 31702/11/2013

[quote]And I nearly choked on my sherry when I heard Dan Stevens' character tell Lady Edith, "Well, you have stuff to do."

Me too. There have been sentences here and there that haven't sounded true to the time, place and social situation, but that was just so teenage California...

by Anonymousreply 31802/11/2013

LOL @ R305.

You should head on over to the "Things straight women have to do sexually to please their man" thread. Show that cunt troll how a real woman controls her man.

by Anonymousreply 31902/11/2013

So, in the end, O'Brien was right!

Jimmy got is promotion by being nice to Thomas! The count gave him this promotion for not suing Thomas.

Strangley enough, I can suspend my bisbleief at Carson rooting for Thomas. Carson is complex. He is concervative, shocked and disgusted with Thomas kissing a man in his sleep, but cares for an employee whom he has worked with for 10 years.He'll humour Thomas to avoid scandal but he also feels for another human being.

That said, all the "Jimmy had it coming thing, the arrivist flirt !" would be shocking to viewers if a young mais had been kissed in her sleep instead.

by Anonymousreply 32002/11/2013

Oh yeah, right r315.

But all the promotions were just another contrived device to make Ugly Alfred end up paying the price for his Ugly Aunt's over-zealous antics.

Which is another way this show mimics the period's sexism. She and Thomas are both just as evil but she comes off in the end like the ultimate witch.

The extent she went to to bury Thomas was heavy-handed and unrealistic.

Also un-realistic was the idea that a closeted gay person who LIVES down the hall as his boss and the same building as his landlord would sneak in and try to kiss someone when he was 100% sure the affections were returned.

I did notice that they didn't have Jimmy respond until the very moment Alfred walked in the door. They're leaving space for Jimmy to have thoughts about Thomas. Mark my words there's going to be something happening between these two by next season.

by Anonymousreply 32102/11/2013

[quote] Thomas wasn't promoted [R262], The other gayling was.

Thomas certainly was promoted.

He's now under-butler, which makes him Mr Bates' superior. And he's done absolutely nothing to earn a promotion. He's a trouble maker who had screwed over Alfred, Bates, O'Brien and Jimmy.

by Anonymousreply 32202/11/2013

If Thomas had sneaked into the bed of a female parlor maid while she was asleep and started groping and kissing her, he would have been fired immediately.

Remember when Mrs Hughes caught Ethel and the major going at it? They were two consenting, fully conscious adults and Ethel was sacked (in more ways than one) and had to leave the house immediately.

Even Bates and Anna didn't get it on in their respective servant quarters. But Thomas jumps someone's bones while they're asleep and he gets a promotion? Oh come on!

by Anonymousreply 32302/11/2013

He didn't jump his bones - he just leaned over to kiss him.

And Thomas has shown some character development over the last two series. He started out evil, but in Series two - after his experience in the war, and then losing the soldier he was infatuated with who died, he became a bit more human.

by Anonymousreply 32402/11/2013

Did the term "fan club" exist in 1921? Wasn't that a little early for it to be used?

And also - the whole jazz club thing, with the flappers, etc - isn't 1921 also just a wee bit early for that, especially in England?

I love the show and liked this episode, but I cannot stand that new young actress who's playing Rose.

I hope by the time they return for the 4th season, they get rid of her.

by Anonymousreply 32502/11/2013

What's the story concerning O'Brien and the soap? Someone posted something about the Ladyship slipping on a bar of soap and a miscarriage.

by Anonymousreply 32602/11/2013

[quote]He's now under-butler, which makes him Mr Bates' superior.

Carson or the Earl pointed out that the distinction in rank, between under-butler and valet, is unclear.

by Anonymousreply 32702/11/2013

"You know I can never give you what you want."

by Anonymousreply 32802/11/2013

r326, O'Brien thought Cora was looking for a new maid to replace her, so she put soap outside her bath so that Cora slipped when she got out of the tub - and miscarried.

Later, she found out that Cora was simply looking for a new maid for the Violet, and she was horrified at what she had done. It was the most human moment O'Brien has had on the show.

by Anonymousreply 32902/11/2013

[quote]And also - the whole jazz club thing, with the flappers, etc - isn't 1921 also just a wee bit early for that, especially in England?

I thought this as well. I don't think the 20s as we think of them (flappers, jazz, etc.) really got going until '24 or '25. 1921 was still pretty much psuedo-Victorian, wasn't it? And also, I think it took a little while for the whole Roaring Twenties culture to make it to England from America.

by Anonymousreply 33002/11/2013

How did Thomas know that O'Brien had placed the soap there deliberately? Was O'Brien trying to kill Cora and her baby?

by Anonymousreply 33102/11/2013

By 1912, the London theatrical impresario John Tiller, defining the word in an interview he gave to the New York Times, described a 'flapper' as belonging to a slightly older age group, a girl who has "just come out". Although the word was still largely understood as referring to high-spirited teenagers gradually in Britain it was being extended to describe any impetuous immature woman. Usage increased during World War I, perhaps due to the visible emergence of young women into the workforce to supply the place of absent men: a Times article on the problem of finding jobs for women made unemployed by the return of the male workforce is headed "The Flapper's Future".

By 1918, the word could also be used teasingly of a "pleasure-loving" older woman: a Dr. Whatley, accused of adultery with the wife of Major Sydney George Everitt of Knowle Hall, Knowle, was asked in court why he had begun a verse to her with the words "There once was a flapper named Mary."

By 1920, the term had taken on the full meaning of the flapper generation style and attitudes. In his lecture that year on Britain's surplus of young women caused by the loss of young men in war, Dr. R. Murray-Leslie criticized "the social butterfly type… the frivolous, scantily-clad, jazzing flapper, irresponsible and undisciplined, to whom a dance, a new hat, or a man with a car, were of more importance than the fate of nations."

by Anonymousreply 33202/11/2013

O'Brien was horrified by her actions even before Cora fell getting out of the tub.

She looked at herself in the mirror and said, "Sarah O'Brien, this is not who you are." She called out, "My Lady...." but she was too late. Cora screamed. She.d already fallen.

by Anonymousreply 33302/11/2013

[quote] 1921 was still pretty much psuedo-Victorian, wasn't it?

Not sure. Jazz had already come to Europe and was popular though it was more likely a pre-jazz sort of ragtime. The post-war period was marked by a degree of decadence but the clothes and the look of the club were definitely more mid to late 20s.

Besides I found the whole thing forced, as if you made an show about America taking place in 1959, and everyone greased their hair and danced to Elvis, and then on January 1, 1960, they suddenly smoked pot and wanted to join the peace corps.

by Anonymousreply 33402/11/2013

LOL R305

by Anonymousreply 33502/11/2013

As a jazz collector, I can say that Britain was starting to go "jazz-mad" as early as 1919, when the American Original Dixieland Jazz Band sensationally appeared in London for many months. They made a UK series of jazz records - 20 of them - in less than a year, which ignited the jazzmania in the UK they had started in America in 1917. By 1921, Jazz dances and parties were all the rage in Britain and British bands were copying the jazz tunes, inept as many of them may have been.

by Anonymousreply 33602/11/2013

[quote]The believability of it was that it happened years ago. (Story wise.)

I understand the lapse of time, R316, but the miscarriage was a very significant event in the lives of all the Downton characters, upstairs and down, considering that the fate of the estate was hanging on the outcome of that pregnancy. It's not like they were challenged to remember the time Cora slipped on some soap and stubbed her toe, while being attended by O'Brien.

I am usually quite willing to suspend as much disbelief as needed, and this is no big deal to me, but it was something of an eye-roll moment.

by Anonymousreply 33702/11/2013

They all know that Cora slipped and fell while getting out of the tub, but do they know she slipped on the soap?

by Anonymousreply 33802/11/2013

I don't think that was ever addressed, R338. But in the range of speculative analysis of how human nature may apply to fictional characters goes, it's a very reasonable assumption. When something dreadful happens, people ask why.

For that matter, the show never addressed why Cora never wondered why O'Brien had told her that the soap had gone under the tub, only to tragically discover that it was decidedly not under the tub.

Still, I love this damned series.

by Anonymousreply 33902/11/2013

Damn. My second sentence in R339 was garbled by my lazy editing.

by Anonymousreply 34002/11/2013

That soap incident was so very, very, ludicrous. You can't tell me the writers couldn't have come up with a more believable "accident" to give Cora a miscarriage?

And the gravity applied to by O'Brian before it even happened. Like She KNEW exactly how the whole thing would play out. She knew exactly where Cora would place her foot and that Cora wouldn't look down when she stepped out of the tub nor would she feel a bar of soap there under her foot before placing all of her weight so precariously on that foot, AND O'Brian knew the fall would hurt Cora in a way that she would lose that baby.

.... and the writers couldn't come up with something slightly more believable?

by Anonymousreply 34102/11/2013

[quote]Besides I found the whole thing forced, as if you made an show about America taking place in 1959, and everyone greased their hair and danced to Elvis, and then on January 1, 1960, they suddenly smoked pot and wanted to join the peace corps.

At least they didn't suddenly have Rose, for example, donning the popular flapper wear -- cloche hats, strapped breasts, beads, and hemlines above the knee. That look didn't come to be 'til around 1926.

In the movie THOROUGHLY MODERN MILLIE, it's supposed to take place in 1922, but they're dressed like it's 1927. The hemline stayed below the knee until the latter decade.

by Anonymousreply 34202/11/2013

First off the whole miscarriage thing on soaps is ridiculous. Very few women have miscarriages due to falls. Baby is a lot more protected in the womb than you think it is but it's often used in soaps as a plot device. I remember my mom used to laugh her ass off at those story lines. Second, I don't think O'Brien knew it would work. She just gave it a chance.

by Anonymousreply 34302/11/2013

Did they really strap their tits down and why?

by Anonymousreply 34402/11/2013

[quote]It was the most human moment O'Brien has had on the show.

Yes, it was. But she also regretted it before it happened. Right after she put the soap on the floor, there is a scene of her looking in the mirror and she mutters to herself, "this is not who you are." She runs back into the room to stop Cora from getting out of the tub and slipping on the soap. But she's too late. Cora fell and lost the baby.

The ironic thing is there is a very good chance Cora would have miscarried that child anyway. She had to be in her late 40's--and "menopuase" pregnancies are very tenuous even now.

by Anonymousreply 34502/11/2013

So it doesn't ruin the line of my beads.

by Anonymousreply 34602/11/2013

[quote] She knew exactly where Cora would place her foot and that Cora wouldn't look down when she stepped out of the tub nor would she feel a bar of soap there under her foot before placing all of her weight so precariously on that foot, AND O'Brian knew the fall would hurt Cora in a way that she would lose that baby.

Also that Cora would leap out of the tub without hanging onto anything. At the most, Soapgate would have given her a banged knee.

by Anonymousreply 34702/11/2013

Yeah, the soap on the floor story was pretty lame. It's not like she put arsenic in her food, which has a guaranteed outcome.

by Anonymousreply 34802/11/2013

I still don't understand how Bates got out of jail. Some witness changed her statement to say what? That Bates' wife was cooking earlier in the day? What did the solicitor threaten her with to make her change her statement? Wouldn't there need to be a new trial? Would the witness be charged with perjury?

One minute the solicitor says the witness won't change her statement. The next minute he says he thinks he knows a way to make her change her statement. The next minute Anna says, "The witness changed her statement and Mr Bates is coming home!" And there he is.

by Anonymousreply 34902/11/2013

Thanks for the link to the Salon article, R280. I thought the same thing watching the episode last night: Was I supposed to care about that spoiled little bitch? Was it a reminder that the dowager was going to rule, come hell or high water?

[Spoiler ahead]

For those of us who know Matthew is doing to die in the Christmas episode, why was so much time wasted on a new and very unattractive character?

by Anonymousreply 35002/11/2013

r344 That was the beginning of the 12 year-old girl fashion. To look young meant to look prepubescent. Boobs were out of style and dresses weren't made to fit full-figured women.

Not much has changed since.

by Anonymousreply 35102/11/2013

[quote] I still don't understand how Bates got out of jail. Some witness changed her statement to say what?

You don't understand because it makes no sense. Witnesses change their stories all the time; their changing tales don't result in the immediate release of convicts. Especially someone convicted of murder! It might have been enough for a retrial, but certainly not an immediate release. So stupid.

by Anonymousreply 35202/11/2013

Did they actually show Cora slipping on the soap? I'm sorry, but the sight of baby-talking Cora getting out of the tub and slipping on a bar of soap makes me LOL.

Did O'Brien tell Thomas that she left the soap there intentionally, or is he just assuming what happened?

by Anonymousreply 35302/11/2013

R351, I think it was to let us know that Branson is now a respectable gentleman, not easily swayed by every stray pussy that crosses his path. It also lets us know how much he still loves Sybil.

At one point, they allude to Rose (the Dowager Countess's wayward grand-niece) as being so much like Sybil. She'll end up living at Downton. This makes me think that she'll be paired up with Branson eventually.

by Anonymousreply 35402/11/2013

R349: The neighbour woman originally told Bates' wife, Anna, that she saw Bates' dead wife making the poisoned pie after Bates had left. She said that before she knew the significance of it. The coppers knew that the ingredients themselves weren't poisoned and that the poison was added to the pie itself. Therefore, Bates couldn't have done it. The guard at the prison got to the neighbour woman and told her to change her story. The solicitor told the woman that they knew the truth and that she would be charged with purgery if she continued to lie.

by Anonymousreply 35502/11/2013

[quote]she would be charged with purgery if she continued to lie.

Well I'm sure she was glad to relieve herself of that load.

by Anonymousreply 35602/11/2013

How is he going to die?

by Anonymousreply 35702/11/2013

Usually a fall wouldn't cause a miscarriage. Maybe if the woman was already at risk?

by Anonymousreply 35802/11/2013

Can you move spoiler discussions to another thread, please?

by Anonymousreply 35902/11/2013

WHO IS THIS with "Thomas"? Nick Hoult?

by Anonymousreply 36002/11/2013


The title of this thread is season three. Posting spoilers and plot analyses for future episodes ruin it for those of us watching season 3 as it airs here. Start your own thread bitches.

by Anonymousreply 36102/11/2013

I got lost trying to figure out who Rose is? She just popped in from nowhere.

Is this the Rose that survived the Titanic disaster? I know there was some connection with DA and the Titanic.

by Anonymousreply 36202/11/2013

Yes, it's Rose Dawson, of the Chippewa Falls Dawsons, and she has better jewelery than ANY of the Crawleys.

by Anonymousreply 36302/11/2013

[quote]The other character, the cousin from London [sic], is also a dumb, annoying twit.

And the overgesturing actress playing her is downright awful.

by Anonymousreply 36402/11/2013

Isn't anyone going to complain of the inanity and amateurishness of Edith's editor and new suitor coming on to her by telling her is wife is crazy and in an asylum???

by Anonymousreply 36502/11/2013

Rose is ugly as shit. Maybe she is the Grandmother of "teefs" on Mad Men. The last time I saw a mouth like that, it had a hook in it.

by Anonymousreply 36602/11/2013

Who's talking about future episodes? We're all dissecting last night's episode, and perhaps speculating about future turns of events.

by Anonymousreply 36702/11/2013

The idea that a man like Carson would absolve Thomas of his gay behavior in those days because he was "made that way" is completely wrong.

When I read part of the biography of Alec Guiness, it was made clear that homosexuality was believed in those days to be a vice, like gambling or drunkenness, which could be controlled by the "sufferer." Guiness, like many gay men, got married because it was believed that the love of a good woman could set a man on the right path. He simply had to recondition himself to enjoy sex with a woman and deny himself sinful "lascivious" sexual behavior or thoughts regarding men.

It was very sad, both for the men and especially for the women who loved these men and believed that they could "cure" them. When the man wasn't cured, it was the woman's fault.

So many people were doomed to unhappy lives. But the belief at the time was that homosexuality was a bad licentious, abominable and conscious, perverted choice.

Certainly a man like Carson, who could not forgive Ethel for turning tricks to keep herself and her child from starving, wouldn't brush off Thomas's "repulsive behavior" with a blithe, "That's the way God made you."

by Anonymousreply 36802/11/2013

Oh for crying out loud, you can't state that unequivocally, r343. That's simply not true that it would be exactly the same in every single situation at that time.

It IS true that homosexuality was tolerated and "understood" in the upper classes because there were so many of them there. To say Carson, in a lower class, couldn't give it a pass for the honor of the house is ludicrous. He's all about the house. He wants no scandal. He stated his opinion that Thomas was "something foul."

by Anonymousreply 36902/11/2013

ITA @ R368. I don't mind them taking license to make the show palatable to modern viewers. They just aren't consistent in doing it. If you're going to make Carson act all prudish about one character, he should stay that way.

by Anonymousreply 37002/11/2013

I've read a lot of LGBT history and for every Alec Guinness, there were men of all classes who lived relatively openly "queer" lives. Let's not generalize.

by Anonymousreply 37102/11/2013

The homosex was something that occurred from time to time.Especially at all boy's schools, or as soldiers or in prison, or somewhere in isolation from women. What was offensive was liking it too much. That was the upper class's attitude. When did Oscar Wilde go to Prison?

As for O'Brien, I think she was angry and wanted to hurt Cora, but never intended deliberately to cause her to miscarry. Slip and fall on a wet slick floor on a bar of soap, twist an ankle so that you have to depend on your mai was the goal.

But when she lost the baby O'Brien's conscience was struck. For a moment. I think she was plotting and gossiping with Thomas about Cora looking for a maid, and O'Brien did tell him she was going to do something about it..

by Anonymousreply 37202/11/2013

[quote] Isn't anyone going to complain of the inanity and amateurishness of Edith's editor and new suitor coming on to her by telling her is wife is crazy and in an asylum???

It's no worse than the amateur plot that an earl's daughter would be offered a regularly appearing newspaper column on the basis of one letter to the editor calling for women's right to vote. And that the editor would have found her writing "so refreshing" when suffragettes like the Pankhursts had been trying to get votes for women for at least 20 years. Suffragettes had been arrested, beaten, imprisoned, force fed. They had used and then abandoned militant tactics for women's rights.

And Julian Fellowes decides that Edith writing a letter to the editor about women suffrage would be a terrific plot device to get a newspaper editor to be so charmed that he would offer her a job, sight unseen. Edith has no education, no experience of traveling the world outside of trips to London to see Aunt Rosamund and is virtually invisible to society. Her passion is visiting old churches.

All of London knew of Lady Mary's body-dragging escapade and Mary had told the friend of poor Mr Pamook that it was her sister Edith who was behind the story, writing about it to the Turkish ambassador. So if a London editor made an inquiry about a charming letter writer named Lady Edith Grantham, he would undoubtably be told of her role in the ruination of her sister's good name.

by Anonymousreply 37302/11/2013

O'Brien is a psychopath if she tried to cause a pregnant woman to slip and fall and possibly lose her baby. No other way around it. And the way she tried to completely destroy Thomas just reinforces that.

Did they show Cora slipping on the soap?

by Anonymousreply 37402/11/2013

Lady Edith sure attracts the weirdos. First that old man who stands her up at the altar, and then the old editor with the crazy wife. Can't she find a normal, respectable man to fuck her?

by Anonymousreply 37502/11/2013

Actually, there weren't many men of any class who lived an openly queer life after the Oscar Wilde trial. That Quentin Crisp was able to make a career out of being a flamboyant gay man shows how very rare it was. And Crisp was frequently beaten and arrested. He was exempted from the draft in WWII for being a "sexual pervert."

by Anonymousreply 37602/11/2013

"Gays and whores and teenage girls gone wild. Join us for Season Three of the acclaimed Downton Abbey"

by Anonymousreply 37702/11/2013

Don't forget Edith's attraction to the melted face muppet who pretended to be her long lost cousin Patrick.

by Anonymousreply 37802/11/2013

Loved Lord Granthams' reaction to the news of Thomas being gay.

"If I had screamed everytime a boy tried to kiss me at Eton, I'd have gone hoarse by Christmas"

( or something like that )

by Anonymousreply 37902/11/2013

When Bates mentioned the Ladyship's soap to O'Brien, I thought she did something sexual with it. I get a lesbian vibe with O'Brien. I can see her stealing Cora's used soap that's touched all her lady parts and masturbating with it.

by Anonymousreply 38002/11/2013

[quote]O'Brien is a psychopath if she tried to cause a pregnant woman to slip and fall and possibly lose her baby

O'brien's nose was out of joint because heard Cora had placed an ad for a lady's maid (it was for the Dowager Cuontess). Cora was in the bathtub and she dropped the soap on the ground. O'brien picked it up but it broke, she just nudged the half on the ground with her foot.

She then left the room with tub, and saw herself in the mirror and said "Sarah O'Brien, that is NOT who you are!" and called out "my lady! Wait!" but just as she did we heard the sound of Cora falling.

by Anonymousreply 38102/11/2013

I was surprised when Carson was shot and killed, I did not see that coming.

by Anonymousreply 38202/11/2013

R373, it was not stated in dialog, but I assumed one reason for the editor's wanting to hire Edith was for the "Name value" of having an Earl's daughter writing for the newspaper - especially on modern, sometime controversial topics.

Remember her original letter was headlined "Earl's Daughter writes letter to newspaper" - an event in itself deemed newsworthy.

by Anonymousreply 38302/11/2013

If only the soap dish had been invented 1917 , Cora would not have slipped.

by Anonymousreply 38402/11/2013

Not British, but the book JEB AND DASH: A DIARY OF GAY LIFE 1918-1945 is a great read. It's the diary entries of a certain "Jeb" (1899-1965) who pines for the love of his bisexual friend "Dash" upon meeting him in college around the Armistice to the end of WWII, but the book mostly focuses on the twenties decade and what life was like for gay men in the Washington, DC area.

by Anonymousreply 38502/11/2013

[quote]Lady Edith sure attracts the weirdos. First that old man who stands her up at the altar, and then the old editor with the crazy wife. Can't she find a normal, respectable man to fuck her?

I think Lady Edith is a bit past her sell-by date by the standards of the day.

by Anonymousreply 38602/11/2013

Fun fact: Julian Fellowes' original choice for Lady Cora was Gillian Anderson, who turned him down flat. I think it may have been due to the fact that Gillian (b. 1968) was not ready to admit that she was old enough to play the mother of adult children.

by Anonymousreply 38702/11/2013

Lady Edith is revealed to be a hermaphrodite who later inherits half the estate.

by Anonymousreply 38802/11/2013

In the Christmas Special, as a reward for his exemplary performance at the cricket match, Lord Crawley lets Thomas take his manhole while Carson watches, to 'educate" him.

by Anonymousreply 38902/11/2013

[quote]I get a lesbian vibe with O'Brien. I can see her stealing Cora's used soap that's touched all her lady parts and masturbating with it.

I'm phoning Julian as I type!

by Anonymousreply 39002/11/2013

Why was O'Brien out to get Thomas?

by Anonymousreply 39102/12/2013

[quotte]So if a London editor made an inquiry about a charming letter writer named Lady Edith Grantham

Her name is Lady Edith Crawley. Grantham is the name of Robert's earldom.

[quote]Why was O'Brien out to get Thomas?

He had started the false rumor that she was planning to quit.

by Anonymousreply 39202/12/2013

They've touched on a few soap opera standards:

Return of a dead person who looks nothing like he used to look and claims he had amnesia.

False accusation of murder. Trial and imprisonment.

Prostitution (although in daytime soaps the ex-hooker is usually married to a doctor).

Marriage of a wealthy person to someone from "the wrong side of town."

Loss of a fortune

Blackmail (Cheerful Charlie and Jimmy threatening to blackmail about Thomas)

False paralysis

What soap tropes haven't they used yet?

1.) Deceiving a man into thinking a child that is not his is actually his

2.) Multiple personality disorder, where a good character dies his or her hair and becomes a bad version of themselves

3.) Kidnapping of an adult. Perhaps leaving behind a false suicide note or letter saying that the kidnapped adult is leaving his/her spouse, so the person's disappearance will be considered voluntary and permanent.


by Anonymousreply 39302/12/2013

Dies hair = dyes hair

by Anonymousreply 39402/12/2013

Another soap device has been used:

Death of the prettiest character so she can move on to do movies.

by Anonymousreply 39502/12/2013

Soap star prematurely leaves soap to become movie star.

by Anonymousreply 39602/12/2013

Siobahn 'O'Brien' Finneran is almost unrecognizable in real life. She's actually quite pretty.

by Anonymousreply 39702/12/2013

Wow, she looks 20 years younger, R397.

by Anonymousreply 39802/12/2013

Make up and hair do wonders don't they?

by Anonymousreply 39902/12/2013

I know r328! It's amazing how different some of the actors look as real-life "modern" people. I've seen every episode of Downton Abbey and O'Brien is probably my favorite character, but honestly if I saw Siobahn Finneran on the street I probably wouldn't even recognize her because she looks so different out of the severe period look she has on the series.

by Anonymousreply 40002/12/2013
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