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Do you believe in God?

Do you believe in a Judeo-Christian God? Do you believe in any God? Or a superior being? Or something spiritual at all?

Does your sexual orientation influence your belief? Why?

As a civilization do we need to believe in a God to have values or morals or fears. Would right and wrong exist without a spiritual viewpoint.

I heard Bishop Gene Robinson speaking on Fresh Air on NPR. I was very moved by his faith. I had to say that I have never really believed in God in the way he believes in God. Always thought if there was a God he had his back turned to me. But I have to admit my values and morals,and some of my fears, are a product of my Catholic upbringing. Sometimes that is a good thing, but mostly it weighs me down.

by Anonymousreply 32202/01/2013

[all posts by right wing shit-stain # a removed.]

by Anonymousreply 101/17/2013

Cram it, churchy.

by Anonymousreply 201/17/2013

I do not. I believe in existence, since it is all I seem to know (epistemological skeptic here). Also, the notion of 'superiority' is very medieval to me.

by Anonymousreply 301/17/2013

The question "Do you believe in God" is too loaded a question because it presupposes that God is real.

I think a better way of asking would be: "Do you or do you not believe in something which can't be proven?"

by Anonymousreply 401/17/2013

Yes

by Anonymousreply 501/17/2013

I do believe in God or a superior being.

by Anonymousreply 601/17/2013

God is imaginary.

Try to be nice to other people and help those in need.

It's REALLY not that hard, and I need no imaginary man in the sky to help me figure it out.

by Anonymousreply 701/17/2013

No

by Anonymousreply 801/17/2013

Well, I had a real famous momma

by Anonymousreply 901/17/2013

No. Atheist here. R1 is playing semantic games, freighting the word "proof" with a sense it has never had in language, and has nothing to add to the discussion.

by Anonymousreply 1001/17/2013

God, no.

Oops.

by Anonymousreply 1101/17/2013

Yes

by Anonymousreply 1201/17/2013

And it's pretty obvious that gods were invented to explain a universe that seemed entirely inexplicable to earlier civilizations. We no longer need creation myths about mud, ribs and snakes to explain our origins. Time to grow up.

by Anonymousreply 1301/17/2013

No, I don't believe in "God." If there were really a god, he would have made himself known to me personally, rather than hope somebody else gets around to telling me about him...especially if he requires that I love and accept him before I can go to heaven. Can you imagine having a child that you would send to hell if he didn't love you, but you gave him away at birth and left it up to him to find his way back to you somehow, some way, some day? I ain't buying it. It's sad to not have a God, but that's reality.

by Anonymousreply 1401/17/2013

I am an agnostic atheist. In my head, I'm pretty sure that is not a God, but I won't say it out loud, just in case.

by Anonymousreply 1601/17/2013

I think you should go ahead and say it, r16.

by Anonymousreply 1701/17/2013

Ditto, r1.

My sexuality has little to do with any of my life's thinking, other than whom I am attracted to in an intimate way.

by Anonymousreply 1801/17/2013

Unquestioning love from a father who makes the house rules so open to interpretation? My father could be Jesus or Allah or Yahweh. I don't know who to obey without getting grounded.

by Anonymousreply 1901/17/2013

Yes. & God believes in me. Believing in God proves he exists

by Anonymousreply 2001/17/2013

I'm always amused when people purport to talk about God. If God existed, wouldn't the very label of 'God' be a limitation to its supposed transcendence?

I don't believe in an Abrahamic God. I believe in possibility and the multiverse, but that is backed up by science.

by Anonymousreply 2101/17/2013

Blah blah blah. Since when should we take Einstein's word for anything? He was wrong about quantum theory, and frankly, his personal grooming left a lot to be desired.

I am not arrogant. I am, however, not obsessed with putting down people who are right to curry favor with people who are wrong, which is apparently your bread and butter R22.

by Anonymousreply 2301/17/2013

Religion always brings out the ugly...why?

by Anonymousreply 2401/17/2013

YES!!!

by Anonymousreply 2501/17/2013

Faith in prayer = adult version of letters to Santa

by Anonymousreply 2601/17/2013

No. I was brainwashed to believe and it was a tough deprogramming but I eventually did it. Once you realize that your so called "faith" is based only on what your parents/church taught you, you realize it's a crock. If you were born in India, you'd be Hindu. If you were born in Iran, you'd be Muslim. But because the predominate religion in the part of the world you live in happens to be Christian, so are you.

It's all a bunch of hooey. And people need to grow the hell up and realize this.

by Anonymousreply 2801/17/2013

(I'm gay myself, I'm allowed to use that term.).

No, you're not.

by Anonymousreply 2901/17/2013

Jesus, Maria, y Jose r27. I hope you have some Ativan, Xanax, or copious amounts of pot to help get your panties unwound.

by Anonymousreply 3001/17/2013

The issue of proof is an important one. People claim that since you can't prove or disprove the existence of God then you shouldn't be making claims one way or the other. I think this is lazy thinking - much of our understanding requires deduction based on what's observable. It's only really mathematics that can be considered provable.

You can deduce (with almost absolute certainty, in my opinion) that there is no Christian God. The only way the Christian God is known is through the Bible (there is no other source) and an objective or rational consideration of the Bible finds it severely lacking. When you throw in our scientific understanding of the universe, history, archaeology, psychology and everything else we know about humanity, it becomes even more likely that the Christian God does not exist.

I was raised a Catholic but remember questioning it very early on (well before I had any concept of being gay). It never made sense to me that the Christians were right but the Ancient Egyptians or Greeks were wrong. It also never made sense that God would appear, talk to people and order people around all the time in the Biblical days but he's now entirely and completely unobservable. How convenient!

It's much harder to deny the existence of a god or superior being. But I think the universe doesn't need a superior being to exist, and I think it's unlikely that there's any god.

I guess I could be described as a "militant atheist" because I struggle with the fact that so many people are prepared to believe in something that just isn't logical or rational, and so dangerous to global stability. But as I get older I'm starting to learn that some people "need" to have something to believe in. I just wish they'd believe in it and not use their beliefs to influence public policy.

by Anonymousreply 3201/17/2013

I don't believe in God but I believe in guardian angels or SOMETHING that gives you a hand but can't be explained. Most people call it God...I don't know what it is. My first thought is, maybe ancesters...

by Anonymousreply 3301/17/2013

Shouldn't the question be "do you believe in A god"? "Do you believe in God" presupposes that there is a specific thing in which to believe or not.

by Anonymousreply 3401/17/2013

[quote]nobody knows and nobody can ever possibly know what - if anything - exists beyond our physical universe. Even Einstein himself wasn't quite sure

Saying "There may be things in the universe we don't understand" is about as far from "There's an invisible man in the sky that made people out of ribs and hates the gay" [fill in the blank with the attributes of alleged sky-creature: loves me, will see me when I die, wants women to wear burkhas etc etc etc] as you can get, but for some reason most religitards think they're the same thing.

by Anonymousreply 3501/17/2013

r33, how do you explain all the good people of faith that don't get helping hands? The ones who die tragic deaths or the ones who are starving in other countries? Their faith is probably stronger than yours. Are you just that special?

by Anonymousreply 3601/17/2013

The guardian angels hate Rwandans?

by Anonymousreply 3701/17/2013

Sky Faerie Worshipers, they are destroying the world.

by Anonymousreply 3801/17/2013

Yes. It makes no sense, it's primitive, but there's still a place for that outside the world of my mind.

by Anonymousreply 4001/17/2013

No

by Anonymousreply 4101/17/2013

No. Most of these beliefs--a loving god, angels, souls, heaven, miracles, etc.--are believed by people not based on some abundance of evidence, but merely because they want so badly for them to be true. This is why most "spiritual" or religious people can so readily say empty things like "god IS love" with straight faces. It's childish self-help pap, with a heavy dollop of death anxiety to boot.

by Anonymousreply 4201/17/2013

Third generation atheist. I'm glad I didn't have to un-program myself from that nonsense.

by Anonymousreply 4301/17/2013

R39, is there a reason that you so wholeheartedly accept Jesus as your savior, but entirely reject the teachings of Mohammad?

Isn't it entirely possible that God (or Allah) decided that Christianity wasn't what He intended, and thus decided to reveal the truth to a man in a cave in the Arabian peninsula?

by Anonymousreply 4401/17/2013

r31 -- whether you believe, don't believe or doubt, verbal abuse is not part civil discourse - please don't return until after you have upped your meds.

by Anonymousreply 4501/17/2013

I don't know and I don't care. If I was to find out definitively God existed it would not change how I live my life. My sexuality had nothing to do with it. A person who needs the promise of an after life in order to be motivated to treat others with respect is no better than a sociopath.

by Anonymousreply 4601/17/2013

Yes, I believe in a greater, unknown sense of the Divine. I am a Quaker (and I am a doctoral student in evolutionary anthropology, so believe when I say I am a minority amongst atheists in my department).

by Anonymousreply 4701/17/2013

I'm not trying to be an ass, R47, but can you define 'divine' for us? I'm just curious to see what you mean by that term.

by Anonymousreply 4801/17/2013

I suppose I mean my own awareness of something holy and bigger than just human beings that predates the Big Bang. I think it runs through all organic life and possibly non-life as well. I don't think the Divine "causes" things in this known dimension of ours - but I suppose it could; who knows? Basically I am a sort of pagan-with-a-small-p agnostic-ish Quaker (Quakers believe that the Divine is in everyone, and I tend to agree).

by Anonymousreply 5001/17/2013

Hell no, I'm not that stupid. And if there is a God, he's a cunt.

by Anonymousreply 5101/17/2013

Thanks, R50. Now I want to know what is meant by 'holy', but your equivalence of panentheism and divinity clarified a lot.

by Anonymousreply 5201/17/2013

I'm an agnostic, and don't rule out the existence of a Creator. What is the Big Bang, but the moment of creation? So there may be a God, or something we can call a God.

Which begs the question... is this God good?

Creation brought mass, gravity, and energy into the universe, but it did not bring justice, altruism, lovingkindness, or the relief of suffering as part of the natural order of things. Mankind had to invent those, not that we did a great job of any of them.

by Anonymousreply 5301/17/2013

Thank you, R48! I just looked panentheism and that is pretty much what I am. I have never seen that concept really articulated before - embarrassingly, I guess I just supposed people were misspelling "pantheism".

Holiness for me is maybe a state of being wrapped in the Divine (emanating it?). It may well be a relic from my Catholic upbringing and I cannot define it, but I know it when I see it, whether it's an empty forest or genuine emotion. I think it has something to do with truth and/or authenticity. Edna St. Vincent Millay says is well in the eighth sonnet here.

by Anonymousreply 5401/17/2013

Here goes:

Do you believe in a Judeo-Christian God?

No I don't. There is no god, heaven or hell.

Do you believe in any God? Or a superior being? Or something spiritual at all?

None of the above

Does your sexual orientation influence your belief? Why?

No it doesn't. I knew I didn't believe in any deity before I knew I was gay.

by Anonymousreply 5501/17/2013

That's fascinating, R50/R54. I'm an atheist myself, but your focus on panentheism - glad I could help with the term - and authenticity at least makes a religious or spiritual outlook comprehensible to me.

by Anonymousreply 5601/17/2013

I doubt there is a superior being. Darwin explained it all in a very logic way. There is evidence in evolution, there is no evidence in God.

by Anonymousreply 5701/17/2013

Thank you too, R48!

Most of the nicest people I know are atheists or agnostics.

by Anonymousreply 5801/17/2013

Hell no.

by Anonymousreply 5901/17/2013

I most certainly do not believe in any concept of a god. No, my sexuality doesn't influence that. From my earliest childhood memories of something like a god concept presented by others in the world around me, my only thoughts were that it couldn't possibly be true.

With a little more maturity, I have only thought that religion was a some kind of comfort to people who needed it, and so they twist their logic and interpretation of the life around them to fit the hole they have in their psyches.

by Anonymousreply 6001/17/2013

R61 is nuts. You belong in a straight jacket.

by Anonymousreply 6201/17/2013

GOD = FRAU

by Anonymousreply 6301/17/2013

R61 = Adoption Agency

by Anonymousreply 6401/17/2013

Yes, I do believe in some higher being, someone who looks out for me, guides me, protects my ancestors whom I hope to meet when I die. However, although morality and moral values are based on the Judaeo-Christian tradition, many Humanists, atheists and just good people could point out that it is 'civilisation' itself - brought about through science, knowledge, progress and political and philosophical enlightenment, for example, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (adopted and accepted by > 150 countries in the world) – that provides the tenets of a modern morality, what's right and wrong, etc...

by Anonymousreply 6501/17/2013

Higher being - no

Higher force - maybe

I believe there are forces greater than us, nature, science has the best explanations so far because it is allowed to change. Religion is too rigid.

by Anonymousreply 6901/17/2013

I can't think of any logical reason to, so no.

by Anonymousreply 7001/17/2013

For me, God is a force for good I find within myself. Although not traditinally or institutionally religious, I pray to God for strength all the time.

I also believe that people are perfectly capable of being and doing good without believing in a god. The God of my imagination loves all creatures, humans, animals, all ethnicities, religions, and sexual persuasions.

My experience with Christianity and other organized religions, however, has shown me that religion can make people really mean. Sadly, this happened in my own family where a fundamentalist grandmother emotionally abused my dear mother, assaulting her with that good old time religion.

My God is love, and my love goes out to all things (except selected right wingers) through that belief. Oh hell, I love them too, imperfect sinners that they are. But I don't love murderers or bigots or other cruel people. My love is conditional after all.

by Anonymousreply 7201/17/2013

What I always found funny and strange about the Bible is that apparently God was always speaking to these people in the Old Testament, giving them direct orders (like go burn your kid to prove you love me)and they communicated directly one on one with 'God'; so how come he stopped doing that? That is why I think it is a bunch of poppycock; did God just figure he had visited earth enough? I then came to the conclusion that the Bible is merely Jewish mythology which actually does resemble Greek and Roman mythology.

by Anonymousreply 7301/17/2013

R71 you're jumping to a conclusion, or begging the question. It's illogical.

by Anonymousreply 7401/17/2013

Oh my, #27. Take a Midol. ::rolly-eye::

by Anonymousreply 7501/17/2013

Yes, Yes, and YES

by Anonymousreply 7601/17/2013

Well 73, perhaps God got bored on Earth and is now ministering to Jupiterians or begatting Messiahs on Mars.

by Anonymousreply 7701/17/2013

Interesting logic, r20.

No. I don't believe in God. Don't think I ever have. I don't believe in heaven or hell. I think you just die when you die.

I don't dislike religious people. I just hate the zealots who impose their own "values" and "morals" on others. Religious zealots who want to dictate whether a person can have access to contraceptives or abortions.

Go about your own beliefs and leave other people alone.

by Anonymousreply 7901/17/2013

[quote]I can't see how anyone can look around at the Earth in all its majestic glory and not believe that there is a God.

Maybe because we can't help but notice that the same earth also has disease, famines and natural disasters that wipe out countless innocent people.

by Anonymousreply 8201/17/2013

No i'm agnostic. But I think there were once "gods" with a little "g". In that I believe the planet was seeded, and then they went away, leaving us poor monkeys on our own.

by Anonymousreply 8301/17/2013

[quote]I can't see how anyone can look around at the Earth in all its majestic glory and not believe that there is a God.

That's because you have no imagination.

by Anonymousreply 8501/17/2013

Depends on how you define god. Are there other worldly beings? Yes, I believe that because of a life time of proof... tangible proof. It's too freaky to explain and hard to believe. I don't believe there is one all mighty ever seeing deity, no.

by Anonymousreply 8701/18/2013

Yes I do.

by Anonymousreply 8801/18/2013

[quote] I can't see how anyone can look around at the Earth in all its majestic glory and not believe that there is a God.

That proves nothing.

Ancient peoples worshipped the Sun because they were ignorant of science and astronomy. We understand that the sun is a star and not a god and worshipping it seems backwards now. The Earth and nature is indeed complex, and it's easier to pass it all off with a creation explanation than to understand the more difficult science of it all. But which is the more reliable road to the truth? Learning the sciences and building on knowledge? Or accepting folklore and gut feelings for your "truth"?

by Anonymousreply 8901/18/2013

The whole God as a force for good is ridiculous.

My morality is not derived from religion, it is derived from experience.

by Anonymousreply 9001/18/2013

"I can't see how anyone can look around at the Earth in all its majestic glory and not believe that there is a God."

I look at all the majestic glory of the Earth and I love it, but I don't see it as being created for someone - either for the creator or any chosen species. All those wonderful things exist for their own sake, not for us or an overseer.

by Anonymousreply 9201/18/2013

Actually, it is the agnostics who are exhibiting childish and rigid thinking. Their standard of proof is that since you can never know anything, then you can not know whether or not there is a God, which is true about anything. You can't know that you're sitting on a chair right this moment for certain. You could be in a sensory deprivation pod having your brain fooled into thinking it. This thinking creates a false equivalence between people who say the evidence is abundant and clear there is no God, and those who say there is a God on whom the entire burden of proof should rest. Furthermore, those who say there is a God have been taught what God is by others. None has come to an independent conception of a deity or attempted to define God in a new way. And that means belief in God also implies belief that other people know more than you about God. It is precisely this absurd belief which the agnostic is flattering without logic or reason.

by Anonymousreply 9301/18/2013

Who knew Tim Tebow was posting on DL? You're making me gag, Tebow @91.

by Anonymousreply 9401/18/2013

R91, you're a fool.

by Anonymousreply 9501/18/2013

Noah's Ark = bullshit.

by Anonymousreply 9601/18/2013

r91 needs to feel that someone else is in control of his life. Sorry dude, most of us get over that need once we graduate high school. There is no big daddy in the sky controlling your destiny. There is no sky fairy that loves you. There is no afterlife.This is your one shot so grow up, take some responsibility for your life and quit thinking magical thoughts.

by Anonymousreply 9701/18/2013

I'm believe in God, to me there's no way all of this just popped up out of nowhere then through billions of years we conveniently have a planet perfect for sustaining life.

by Anonymousreply 9801/18/2013

It annoys me when people try to equate atheists with fundamentalists, suggesting that both exhibit rigid thinking. Most atheists have abandoned an earlier religion imposed on us by others, which is the opposite of rigid thinking.

There may be some atheists who abandoned their faith because of their personal experiences with religion or with the way traditional religions view sexuality, but to me it seems like most of these people look for progressive churches rather than abandoning it altogether.

Atheists become atheists because we have open minds and critique what we've been told. We base our views on logic, rational thinking and evidence. I guarantee that if tangible evidence for the existence of God presented itself, atheists wouldn't act in the same way that fundamentalists do when science revealed that the world is over 6000 years old.

by Anonymousreply 9901/18/2013

Yes I do, OP. Do not believe in Hell and the Devil, and certainly don't believe a lot of Judeo-Christian bullshit. But I definitely believe in God.

by Anonymousreply 10001/18/2013

"The audacity for someone to think that we are alone without someone who created us and is watching over us."

I really think that a lot of religious feeling is derived from the emotional experiences of early childhood. That's when our creators (or parents) constantly watch over us, seem omnipotent and omnesicient, teach and advise us, punish us when we're bad and reward us when we're good. That's how many people describe their relationship with God, as a small child describing a parent.

Again, if there is God as a creator, that does not mean that God fulfills a parental role, IMHO that is something from our own psyches.

by Anonymousreply 10101/18/2013

no

by Anonymousreply 10301/18/2013

[quote] My beautiful love sometimes goes to church and sometimes I go with him.

Pass me a trash can, I'm gonna be sick.

by Anonymousreply 10401/18/2013

There is nothing more than science. Religion and spirituality exist because we've happened to have evolved to a degree of intelligence in a universe that doesn't need us, and the reality of our finite existence isn't a nice thing to contemplate. We all want love, mercy, purpose - all the things the laws of physics don't provide.

I'm just happy I'm here to go along for the ride, learn as much as I can and make the world a better place for those lucky enough to enjoy the ride when I'm gone. The fourteen billion years before my birth didn't trouble me, so I doubt the billions of years after me will.

Having said that, I'd be a lot less fervent with my atheism if I didn't see so much awfulness in the world done in the name of religion. Here wel all are, 4 billion years into the life of the planet and people are killed and mistreated in the name of something whose existence is infinitesimally unlikely.

by Anonymousreply 10501/18/2013

God doesn't exist. Fabricated by man.

End of story.

by Anonymousreply 10601/18/2013

You don't need to be particularly fervent in your attachment to logic, rational thinking or science to reject the notion of God. A passing interest is more than enough.

by Anonymousreply 10801/18/2013

I would have considered a ride on the hypocrisy bus, but it appears you've taken the last seat.

by Anonymousreply 10901/18/2013

Why are atheists so threatened by gays of faith?

by Anonymousreply 11001/18/2013

[quote] The man I love is beautiful. Spiritual. Black. We are married and happy. Gay couple. Evolved.

I loved Al Lipschitz more than I can possibly say. He was a real artistic guy... sensitive... a painter. Black. Evolved.

by Anonymousreply 11101/18/2013

So R112 why do you get to be the special case?

Might it be because you aren't gay, and are actually a frau?

If not then you're just a self-loathing cunt.

by Anonymousreply 11301/18/2013

God is part of a religious belief and religion is a mind manipulating drug clerics use to take advantage of weak minded people (their money, their workforce, using them as disposable pawns in a scheme, etc.).

Only weak minded adults need an outside source to tell them what their purpose is, what to do, and how they should live their lives. And in return pay a heavy price for it.

by Anonymousreply 11401/18/2013

r112,

[quote]Like I said, a gay atheist is as rigid and judgmental as any fundamentalist and just as frightened of the alternatives.

Oh really? Now refresh my memory. When was the last Atheist crusade where religious people were murdered for their beliefs and when did one blow up a marketplace, government building, or church?

Atheists reject FOR THEMSELVES the concept of religious belief and have no fear to come out as Atheists. If you consider that rigid and judgemental then you sure have a different definition of what rigid and judgemental means than I have.

by Anonymousreply 11501/18/2013

I want to believe there's a loving creator greater than ourselves that want's only the best for us but I just don't know.

by Anonymousreply 11601/18/2013

R115 has an excellent point. Let the religious people here list the time when atheists conducted crusades to destroy non-believers. The 'atheists are just as bad as the religious' troll is flailing.

by Anonymousreply 11701/18/2013

No. I'm an atheist. I opted out of the state church two years ago. It's the best decision I ever made.

by Anonymousreply 11801/18/2013

R1: agreed.

by Anonymousreply 11901/18/2013

I always sort of believed. When I was 38, a series of terrible things happened and I needed to believe. I sought god out and he responded in spectacular ways, or so it seemed to me, and my non religious family. I am smart enough to realize that it could all be coincidence but it felt like miracles occurred. I am prone to magical thinking but nowadays it seems that such magical thinking saved me from imminent destruction. I simply was forced to realize how powerless I was, and I turned to god and he showed up. I didn't see him or anything, or have any visions, and I didn't convert to any religion. I still don't even go to synogogue.I'm sure I'll be mocked here but that's ok. I still struggle with all the angles i.e what about rwanda, the holocaust etc. Why would I be so "special" that he might help me? I struggle with all of it and am not firmly confident in him(or her whatever)but I know that the last few years have given me a sense that there is indeed a force of good in the universe that sometimes sets things right. I hope I'm right.

by Anonymousreply 12001/18/2013

It happens in discussions with many people of faith (not just the gay ones) - Why are you so threatened by my faith? What are you afraid of? Why are you so arrogant? And so it goes.

We're not the ones who are afraid. We're not the ones who live in fear that one day we'll actually stop and think for a fraction of a second and realise in our heart of hearts that everything we believe is a giant con.

We're told there's no such thing as a free lunch, nothing is too good to be true... And yet God delivers everything. A chance to avoid death. A chance to see our loved ones again. A chance to live FOR ETERNITY in a state of pure bliss. Well, how fucking convenient? (Oh, and can we have some money??)

People who don't want to further the debate and instead suggest that we're fearful, or rigid or as bad as fundamentalists can't handle the fact that what we say makes sense.

by Anonymousreply 12101/18/2013

Sorry R102, Atheists do not have a manifesto

by Anonymousreply 12201/18/2013

I was gonna sorta write some long winded reply, but now I can't be arsed. I'm just so bored by the whole thing. Believe what you want, don't believe what you want, I just don't care anymore.

by Anonymousreply 12401/18/2013

I used to, when I was young, an emotional mess, and needed to believe someone or something actually cared about me. Christians mostly muddied my path to recovery.

by Anonymousreply 12501/18/2013

No. Like many people here, I dont know if there is a god and I really dont care. Its possible there is something out there beyond what we can comprehend, but it has really no impact on my life. I certainly dont believe in the god of the Bible. That character is a petty, jealous, insecure bully who thinks nothing of killing countless innocent people just because someone was not properly kissing his ass. That's not a god, that's a sociopath.

by Anonymousreply 12601/18/2013

If there is an all powerful God...he's doing an extremely bad job.

Hope my Mom didn't hear that.

by Anonymousreply 12701/18/2013

WHY WON'T GOD HEAL AMPUTEES?

Is God real, or is he imaginary? It is one of the most important questions you can ask yourself.

If God is real and if God inspired the Bible, then we should worship God as the Bible demands. We should certainly post the Ten Commandments in our courthouses and shopping centers, put "In God We Trust" on the money and pray in our schools. We should focus our society on God and his infallible Word because our everlasting souls hang in the balance.

On the other hand, if God is imaginary, then religion is a complete illusion. Christianity, Judaism and Islam are pointless. Belief in God is nothing but a silly superstition, and this superstition leads a significant portion of the population to be delusional.

But how can we decide, conclusively, whether God is real or imaginary?

Since we are intelligent human beings living in the 21st century, we should take the time to look at some data. That is what we are doing when we ask, "Why won't God heal amputees?"

If you are an intelligent human being, and if you want to understand the true nature of God, you owe it to yourself to ask, "Why won't God heal amputees?" (See linked site for some eye-opening essays...)

by Anonymousreply 12801/18/2013

After reading R107 all I want to say is, fuck off. So full of yourself, you revolt me.

by Anonymousreply 12901/18/2013

It is very sad that so many people need faith in someone else (a person or some deity), because they don't have faith in themselves.

They declare to be powerless and look around for guidance until they see someone who declares himself a leader, a prophet, or a snake oil salesmen who promises to give them what they want in exchange for money, more power, more wealth, fame, obedience, blind faith, their bodies, their attention, and/or the last shred of mental health they had.

by Anonymousreply 13001/18/2013

Agreed that r107 is revolting. Bitch? There's no priest in this country that can provide a marriage license. You don't understand a fucking thing about marriage and you sound like a douchebag. Grow the fuck up.

by Anonymousreply 13101/18/2013

Everything that exists in nature can be reduced to the outcomes of phyiscal laws and probabilities. As for what, if anything, created the rules and set the gears in motion, I doubt we'll ever know.

Personally I think a belief in a personal God is a psychologically healthy thing granted it isn't obsessive, but I just can't bring myself to put my faith in anything tangible.

by Anonymousreply 13201/18/2013

no

by Anonymousreply 13301/18/2013

No.

by Anonymousreply 13401/18/2013

Cheerful rational empiricist here.

by Anonymousreply 13501/18/2013

Nothing ramps up Gay Communities donations and activism like the Jesus freaks. They are better than any GLAAD fundraising campaign.

by Anonymousreply 13601/18/2013

Yes I do

by Anonymousreply 13701/18/2013

The people saying atheists are rigid in their thinking don't get it.

Bottom line: If it was proven beyond a doubt that there was a god, atheists would then believe.

However, if it was proven beyond a doubt that there WASN'T one, believers would jump off bridges like the one poster here said he would do. Or you would see suddenly "kind" people reveal their true selves or huge numbers of folks freaking the fuck out because they suddenly don't know how to be. The world would go on and the atheists would remain exactly as they already are.

by Anonymousreply 13801/18/2013

Certainly not.

by Anonymousreply 13901/18/2013

Not in the least - and I'm heartened by the fact that so many people are coming to their senses.

by Anonymousreply 14001/18/2013

R27 should believe in god. It might help him.

by Anonymousreply 14101/18/2013

No.

But I keep my mouth shut because to say otherwise would be bad for business.

by Anonymousreply 14201/18/2013

I'm with R120. Coincidences or synchronicity have caused me to question, not God, but whether a higher power or force watches over us. I don't buy religion the way it is depicted in bibles. I think basically the churches have hijacked our own divinity (that we all possess) and are selling it back to us second-hand.

by Anonymousreply 14301/18/2013

I believe in Clams, Xenu, H-bombs and... COCK... I'm of below average height but a mega-star. Who am I?

by Anonymousreply 14401/18/2013

Unbelievably offensive thread. Why can't our community have a diversity of beliefs without hateful intolerance from those who choose not to believe. We're not harming you. We actually love you despite yourselves.

Why has the webmaster allowed this thread to continue?

by Anonymousreply 14601/18/2013

The thing is, whether you believe in God or not, it really doesn't affect your life all that much. God is just that -- a belief. It has no consequences. It changes nothing.

Will believing in God provide you some comfort in times of loss? Perhaps. But human nature is very resilient. It's not a God-given trait. It's our survival instinct. We're resilient because as with all species, we want to live.

by Anonymousreply 14701/18/2013

There is no need for a god, in any religion. "Gods" are defined in my mind as "an ever shrinking pocket of questions for which science hasn't yet arrived at a conclusion."

If you question the religion you were given as a child, if you can't quite put it all together and convince yourself, and if you've been religious for a little while now but are starting to feel buyer's remorse . . . you are NOT alone. You are right to be skeptical and the world is increasingly in agreement: There. Is. No. God.

We are all we have, and that is beautifully enough.

by Anonymousreply 14801/18/2013

r149 atheists aren't the one condemning gays and passing laws to restrict the civil rights of gay couples. Atheists aren't outside abortion clinics taunting and intimidating patrons and doctors. They are killing abortion providers.

They aren't demanding that every school children read the bible and choose creationism over science.

You sound like an intolerant, unaccommodating, and unbearably self-obsessed asshole yourself.

Kettle meet pot.

by Anonymousreply 15001/18/2013

I said both sides r150, I'm not excusing any of that. And there are a lot of Christian who are not fundamentalists, there are many people who are spiritual and maybe just believe in a God. But you just hate, ridicule and mock everyone that isn't an Atheist.

There is a gray area, not everything in black and white.

by Anonymousreply 15201/18/2013

I don't know if there is a higher power or not, but the Gods described in organized religion is laughable. If he does exist I am not impressed. If you are this being God that can create everything, why did you do it? You created human beings for what purpose? To weed through them to get to the cream of the crop and create an army or something? Why did you make us so complicated? Why do we have to eat and shit? Couldn't you have made us like Gumby figures where we are all one piece of plastic and don't have to deal with all these organs that can go bad, and a spine that is very close to the surface and can get easily injured? Why did you create billions and billions of light years of universe around us? Wasn't that overkill? And why did you give us the brains to think for ourselves, and then threaten to punish those who don't believe in you even though the only "evidence" of your existence is that we are here and that we were told you exist from the day we were born?

by Anonymousreply 15301/18/2013

Christians are so oppressive. They insist everyone else believe in their god, then use it as a weapon to pass laws and hurt people.

There is no reference to atheism on coins, or in the pledge of allegiance. Atheists don't show up on the doorsteps of private homes hounding people about "you're going to burn in a fire" and such. Atheists don't take to the airwaves every Sunday morning preaching condemnation of homosexuals and trying to coerce people into sending them money with hopes of prosperity and threats of eternal damnation.

by Anonymousreply 15401/18/2013

OK, so let's say there is this all powerful, all knowing being who created the universe. And let's say he created the angels and Lucifer. So is he really all powerful and all good if he created Lucifer? He created a being capable of evil. So he cannot be all powerful and all good, can he?

Once someone can explain The Problem of Evil to me without resorting to, "god gave us free will" then maybe I'll have some respect for the believers.

Until then, shut up about how god is so great. He's obviously created some fucked up things so he isn't that great of a god.

by Anonymousreply 15501/18/2013

R154 has never heard of Sam Harris.

by Anonymousreply 15601/18/2013

[quote] R154 has never heard of Sam Harris.

Not everyone is old enough to remember STAR SEARCH.

by Anonymousreply 15701/18/2013

I believe in existence... a force of some sort. I don't believe I can ever comprehend exactly what it is.

by Anonymousreply 15801/18/2013

I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time -- when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers are in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

The dumbing down of American is most evident in the slow decay of substantive content in the enormously influential media, the 30 second sound bites (now down to 10 seconds or less), lowest common denominator programming, credulous presentations on pseudoscience and superstition, but especially a kind of celebration of ignorance

by Anonymousreply 15901/18/2013

[quote]I was gonna sorta write some long winded reply, but now I can't be arsed. I'm just so bored by the whole thing. Believe what you want, don't believe what you want, I just don't care anymore.

LOL! You sound like me. I was going to write a reply and explanation, but I'm so sick of it all too.

by Anonymousreply 16001/18/2013

About a year ago, I was starting to come to the conclusion that there is no God and religion is all made up. But then I would still catch myself saying things to myself like "Thank you God!" or "Please God, help me here." If there is no God, whom or what do we thank when we are blessed? Luck?

by Anonymousreply 16101/18/2013

Define "Blessed."

by Anonymousreply 16201/18/2013

R102 is obviously my sister trying to get the last word without actually having any arguments. Atheists rule!

by Anonymousreply 16301/18/2013

no

by Anonymousreply 16501/18/2013

R166=misanthrope

by Anonymousreply 16701/18/2013

"smug self righteousness"

+

"What happened in some of you people's lives that would make you just not believe in anything? We are not just here to be here. There is a divine plan in everything. I just hope most of you wake up and realize it before it's too late."

=

IRONY

by Anonymousreply 16901/18/2013

I've yet to come across any compelling reason to believe in a god. Zero.

by Anonymousreply 17101/18/2013

"smug self righteousness"

+

"it's just the truth"

=

IRONY

by Anonymousreply 17401/18/2013

[quote]That's a shame, and also pretty scary. When you die, do you think it will just be some big void?

There won't be a void. You'll just be dead. You cease to exist. Why is that so hard for you to understand.

by Anonymousreply 17501/18/2013

r176 After we die, there is no vibe left - negative or positive We're dead. What we do with our lives while we're alive is what matters. Unlike you, I don't think about death or salvation. I think about making the best of this one life. I treat people well because I know tough life is and we're all going along just trying to survive.

I don't God to appreciate life and other people. I'm glad you need the fear of God to enable you to live. I just don't.

by Anonymousreply 17701/18/2013

So much hate for atheists on this board. Do you theists and agnostics listen to yourselves? Do you realize you sound like you don't really believe what you claim to believe?

by Anonymousreply 17801/18/2013

[quote]So much hate for atheists on this board.

Quite the contrary, actually. All I see is atheists calling believers "fools," and belittling us at every turn.

by Anonymousreply 18001/18/2013

r179 that's nice that you believe. It's a belief. I don't believe but I'm not berating or calling you negative. What do you want to argue about? Do you want to beat me down until I tell you that God is real?

by Anonymousreply 18101/18/2013

[quote] Quite the contrary, actually. All I see is atheists calling believers "fools," and belittling us at every turn.

You mean the same thing you're doing.

by Anonymousreply 18201/18/2013

It's quite funny you should say that r180 because as a gay man, the very people who "belittle" and condemn your sexuality are Christians, Muslims, Hindus, and all the devout who believe in a higher power.

Atheists are the least of your worries.

by Anonymousreply 18301/18/2013

So you didn't use the word fool. You're just as negative and judgmental as those you complain about.

Eventually I'll get the answer I expect.

by Anonymousreply 18501/18/2013

To demonize all believers or single out some of us for the extreme words and actions of others who walk in faith is bigoted in and of itself, is what I should have said.

by Anonymousreply 18701/18/2013

No. Because I'm not a brainwashed moron who still believes in the exactly equivalent of Santa Clause. I grew up. Magical thinking is an attribute of childishness. I'm an adult.

by Anonymousreply 18801/18/2013

[quote]No. Because I'm not a brainwashed moron who still believes in the exactly equivalent of Santa Clause. I grew up. Magical thinking is an attribute of childishness. I'm an adult.

To R183 and R185, a statement like this is precisely my point.

by Anonymousreply 18901/18/2013

And thus the Christians have been able to move seamlessly from burning witches, to enslaving blacks, to attacking Jews, to demonizing gays, r187.

The rallying cry... Let's hear it... 1, 2, 3.... "Not all Christians are like that!!!!"

Because there was a (usually extremely quiet) minority of religious people who objected to such actions, history is rewritten,

No matter how heinous the crime, it never quite sticks to its religious perpetrators.

by Anonymousreply 19001/18/2013

[quote] To demonize all believers or single out some of us for the extreme words and actions of others who walk in faith is bigoted in and of itself, is what I should have said.

For some of us it's not a matter of demonizing, it's a matter of being cautious. I keep my distance from religtious people until they've proven to me they are not hateful bigots like the loudest members of their groups. And since they've chosen to align themselves with groups known for hatred and bigotry, I see it as their job to prove they are not. I don't give them the benefit of the doubt anymore.

by Anonymousreply 19101/18/2013

You sound very insecure of your belief r189. Why does it matter what anyone on this thread says? Better yet, why do you need to defend yourself? You're posting on DL in a thread that pointedly asks whether you believe in God. You can just predict that people who don't believe in God will tell you why. You're offended by the "why" part. If you don't want to hear the reasons why people don't believe in God, then stop reading this thread.

by Anonymousreply 19201/18/2013

[quote]I keep my distance from religious people

There, you said it. Religious people. Religion is the operative word. Some of us who walk in faith consider ourselves spiritual, not religious. Religion is equated with fanaticism. I consider myself to be a spiritual person who believes. I'm not necessarily religious, although when you tell someone that you believe in God, or that you belong to a church, they automatically assume, "Oh, he's a religious fanatic!" There's a difference.

by Anonymousreply 19301/18/2013

I'm not insecure in the slightest, R192, but when someone tells me that atheists are getting a bad rap in here, or that they are getting the brunt of the insults, then I feel that I need to point out the contrary.

by Anonymousreply 19401/18/2013

[quote] although when you tell someone that you believe in God, or that you belong to a church, they automatically assume, "Oh, he's a religious fanatic!" There's a difference.

Sorry, but that would be enough to make me cautious. And I've heard more than a few bigots refer to themselves as spiritual. So yes I assume the worst until the individual in question proves otherwise.

by Anonymousreply 19501/18/2013

I honestly don't know, so I would be an agnostic. Do I think there is something more? Yes. Faith and religion are not the same thing, though.

Religion over the past 40-60 years has become increasingly more self-absorbed in its practice, particularly Christianity. People want to feel good and be rich. There is no self control or spirit of helping others in an impersonal sense. It is also used selfishly to gain particular outcomes, i.e. conservatives use it to put forth their political agenda.

by Anonymousreply 19601/18/2013

R111-still laughing -that was very funny. Only a blessed wit could be that funny.

by Anonymousreply 19801/18/2013

R168, you're a moron. The fact that you think not believing in a fictional man-made invisible sky fairy for which there is exactly zero evidence means "not believing in anything" shows how ignorant you really are. And some of the most bitter and despicable people I've ever met were so-called "Believers".

by Anonymousreply 19901/18/2013

R189 can't handle the truth.

by Anonymousreply 20001/18/2013

I can see why R201 is getting riled up. I think it's a shame that most of these threads up this way.

As an atheist, if a believer calls me a fool or a moron for abandoning religion, I could take offense but find it easier to give reasons why I'm think I'm not a fool or a moron for disbelieving.

R201, I would be very interested to hear why you are a believer. I'm sure the reason you believe isn't because some atheists are rude. But there must be a reason and I'd like to know what it is.

Also, do any of the arguments that atheists have made in this thread with regard to their disbelief resonate with you at all? Do any of our arguments make sense? Could we, indeed, be right?

I don't feel particularly rigid in my thinking - I'm more than willing to to have my viewpoint de-limited.

by Anonymousreply 20201/18/2013

[quote]But not as despicable and bitter as the one you see when you look into a mirror. You seem very angry.

You perceive anger that isn't there. A little incredulity that you could be so ignorant, naïve, and gullible maybe. But that's not my problem it's yours.

You only believe in "god" because your parents (and presumably some institution like a church) brainwashed you into it as a child. It's just weird to me that you learned that Santa isn't real, the Tooth Fairy isn't real, but you keep clinging to the bizarre and ridiculous notion that "god" is real. Why?

Yes, believing in god is a sign of being a moron. Just like if you came across an adult that fervently believed in Santa and insisted he was real. Or that Obama was a muslim Marxist Kenyan out to destroy the country. Or that the comic book Thor is a true story.

Anyone who is intelligent and educated, who has studied religion and religious history, would easily recognize that man has always created "gods" in his own image... that it's all made up, manufactured, usually by those "in control" to keep the masses "under control".

That you believe in some invisible, unprovable entity that some how can read your mind ("hear your prayers"), or that know or gives a damn what is going on with you personally, in a universe as infinite as the one we live in? Yeah, I'm a bit incredulous. Both at the ignorant naivity, and the complete arrogance.

It's not MY view point that is limited, it's yours. Your mind is trapped in a little box. I'm far less limited than you, which is precisely WHY I don't believe in god.

My not believing in your god is no different than your not believing in Zeus, or Odin.

by Anonymousreply 20301/18/2013

YES!!!

by Anonymousreply 20401/19/2013

[quote]The first thing out of your mouth (or should I say, from your keyboard) was calling me a moron. You have no idea who I am....

We know what you choose to write here, R201, and what you wrote in your post at R168 was, in fact, moronic. If you don't want to be called a moron, stop writing moronic posts. It's pretty much that simple.

by Anonymousreply 20501/19/2013

In a word, op, no.

by Anonymousreply 20601/19/2013

Yes. And I work for The Church, interestingly enough, almost the whole staff is gay.

by Anonymousreply 20701/19/2013

That made no sense at all, R209.

by Anonymousreply 21001/19/2013

r31, et al, get medicated.

by Anonymousreply 21101/19/2013

Give me a break, R209. I believe in God, but the vast majority of atheists I know are perfectly respectful and tolerant individuals. Even my more zealous atheist friends are respectful of my beliefs and never try to convert me or 'beat me into submission.' You have a right to identify with whatever religious identity you wish, or have no religious identity at all, but saying that you aren't an atheist because of the way a vocal minority of atheists act tells me that you are way too focused on other people and not focused enough on yourself. I detest the way many Christians behave, but I'm not going to let that stop me from being a Christian.

by Anonymousreply 21201/19/2013

r32, perfectly stated. I feel the same way.

But, I also believe "inside" of my conscience, if you will, that there exists a supreme being that created it all.

Or, we are from "alien" life forms. Is it not true that our very planet was from "alien" material floating through space?

There, then, must be something from whence we (all matter) came.

But, r32, why do we then think? Rationalize? When other evolutionary animals cannot? How did this come to be? The mind? Conscience?

by Anonymousreply 21301/19/2013

That's muddled, R213. I'm not sure what you mean when you say that you believe something "inside of your conscience".

Also, your definition of "alien" is true for any object in the Universe... I am "alien" to you, just as a coffee cup is "alien" to your hand. I don't think that has any spiritual import, but your mileage may vary.

by Anonymousreply 21401/19/2013

I posted on the forum before about how I was raised an atheist, I came form a large secular family, about 2 years ago now I had a very real and terrifying paranormal experience in a Guest House in Montanan.

It really upset me, I am no longer an atheist but I have never spoken about it to my family. I still pretend to be atheist to all but my sister who converted to Buddhism in college, and she had some about of hardship from my brother and dad at the time, I think telling them I had an experience with a scary ghost for want of a better word would just not be worth it.

But yeah, now I believe in an after life, I believe in the soul. I suppose I am a non-secular humanist.

by Anonymousreply 21501/19/2013

[quote] for the bourgeoisie idle

Thank you, Lady Evelyn.

I actually think it's great we're living in an era when atheists (at least in some places) are finally free to speak up and don't risk having their heads cut off or being put in prison or getting severely censured by society just for pointing out there's no Santa. I hope the ideas spread, that it's the next stage in human evolution towards a better society and that it's finally the end of these ridiculous, anti-humanist notions that have done so much harm to the human race finally end.

Things must look very different from Ashton Manor, I suppose.

by Anonymousreply 21601/19/2013

YES!

by Anonymousreply 21701/19/2013

Nost religious people use their religion like a sledgehammer..."I'm RIGHT and you're WRONG!"

by Anonymousreply 21801/19/2013

R215, could you please expound on your paranormal experience?

by Anonymousreply 22001/19/2013

Wow, R221 really quaffed that Kool-Aid, didn't he?

by Anonymousreply 22201/19/2013

So... why can I only see orange-starred threads in The Datalounge Today? Nothing else shows up? I saw someone else post that this was happening to them too... WTF?

by Anonymousreply 22301/19/2013

It wasn't Kool-Aid. It was ORANGE JULIUS!

by Anonymousreply 22401/19/2013

[quote] Are you that closed-off to the possibility that something greater than all of us is out there? Does it make you feel like less-than to have some sort of spiritual guide? Did something traumatic happen in your life that just made you stop believing?

You'll get an honest answer when you pose an honest question, not one that is loaded with the same kind of condescenion you claim to be against.

by Anonymousreply 22601/19/2013

No, it is not an honest question. It is loaded with preconceived notions, the same things you rail about. If you want to ask a question, ask it simply without the same insults you claim to be a victim of.

Can you do that?

by Anonymousreply 22801/19/2013

I have to agree with R228. It's presented in an extremely biased fashion - many of us never believed in the first place, very few atheists feel 'less than' anything, and atheists love possibility backed by reason.

I will answer it anyways, though. I personally don't believe in Abrahamic monotheism because there is no empirical proof of divine guidance or divine creation. (I am more sympathetic to pantheism and panentheism; however, these still fall short of my own personal criteria.) I believe that there is an infinity to be discovered and explored in our Universe; I believe that all of these new experiences are best explored through scientific means. I have no ill will towards individual religious people, but I strongly disapprove of institutional monotheistic religion as it affects the daily lives of innocent citizens.

by Anonymousreply 23001/19/2013

[quote]than to have some sort of spiritual guide

I don't need a spiritual guide. It's such a cop out not living your life, but letting this god determine what and how your life is going to be. You're here physcially riding in the carriage, but you hand over the reins to something else.

If something bad happens, you ask god to fix it. If you can't deal with grief, then there MUST be reason god did it. Not that what happened is just life happening, there HAS to be a reason. But only he knows it.

God is a big crutch for people who don't or can't deal with the complexities of life.

Going to church on Sunday, sitting before a guy who has a book consisting of old stories, having this person who is supposed to know more than you read from this old book--this is what's guiding your life. Not you.

Oh, and then pay some money for that privilege of having someone preach to you about being a good or you'll burn forever underground.

by Anonymousreply 23101/19/2013

What about those of us who worship cock? I absolutely believe in cock.

by Anonymousreply 23201/19/2013

[quote]You're absolutely right. My being a believer has nothing to do with atheists. I pray that they find some kind of spiritual balance in life, but I believe because I know Him for myself to be true.

The notion that atheists have no balance in life is as ignorant as it is insulting.

And you know no such thing about "Him" (how ridiculous that you give 'god' a sex and a capital letter)... by definition you DON'T know, otherwise it wouldn't be called "faith".

You make assumptions and grotesque logical leaps based on what has been spoon fed to you, based on no reality or facts what so ever.

And you imagine yourself superior to those who don't gullibly fall for magical thinking and lies? Really?

by Anonymousreply 23301/19/2013

[quote]Let me pose a question to atheists--rude, friendly or indifferent--Why NOT believe?

That strikes me as an utterly bizarre question. Why not believe the moon is made of green cheese? Because it isn't. That's entirely the wrong question. The question is, WHY SHOULD I? Based on all of history, and all of science, and all of the facts and knowledge we have... can you come up with even one reason I or anyone else should "believe"? Let alone a GOOD reason?

[quote]And no "I'm a grown up who doesn't believe in fairy tales" smart ass answers, but truthful, honest repsonses.

That IS a truthful, honest response. And you reject it out of hand. How interesting.

[quote]Are you that closed-off to the possibility that something greater than all of us is out there?

No. I just don't believe in an obviously man-made notion of what such a thing is like, with zero evidence, invented by people who couldn't possibly know. At the first evidence of anything, I will believe. The Universe is a huge and wonderous place. The "religious" notion of the universe is a very small, narrow-minded thing indeed.

[quote]Does it make you feel like less-than to have some sort of spiritual guide?

I don't even know what you mean by 'spiritual guide'... and I don't think you have any such notion either. Again, I don't feel "less than" anything. I don't feel the need to make up magical stories to explain things I don't immediately understand either.

[quote]Did something traumatic happen in your life that just made you stop believing?

Uh... you've got things so backwards. There isn't a baby born that isn't an atheist. It's the natural way. You were INDOCTINATED (which by definition is kind of a traumatic thing) into your belief. If your parents had been Muslims, you'd be Muslim. If your parent had been jewish, you'd be Jewish. You inherited your indoctrination, you had it traumatically drilled into you as a child.

Me? No trauma. No indoctrination. I never was lied to and never coerced into believing the lies.

I believe in a lot. I just don't believe in things for which there is absolutely zero evidence, and a LOT of counter-evidence for.

by Anonymousreply 23401/19/2013

No. I am an atheist. I feel it far more likely that man created "God" in his own image than the other way around. The fantastical myth making of a pre-literate Bronze Age citizenry, translated across at least three languages, and codified under a political movement over 1,000 years later is far from convincing. I believe Occam's Razor would lean toward my understanding of things.

by Anonymousreply 23601/19/2013

[quote]Atheists get on my nerves because they like to make it seem as if it is some sign of stupidity to have faith.

No, Atheists get on your nerves because the idea of not swallowing all the religious dogma you've blindly accepted your whole life is terrifying to you. Everyone brave enough to use their brains is the enemy, and to actually put your "faith" in what is, an can be explained and proven, fills the religious with rage. It's the over-reaction you've been programmed to exhibit so that you might push back those who even dare ask questions. Isn't that evident to you yet?

by Anonymousreply 23701/19/2013

I've yet to see intelligent arguments from the so-called agnostic who keeps saying atheists are "just as bad" as fundamentalists. It's mere ad hominem bullying. They think their attitude of condescending "respect" for theists, treating them like naughty children, somehow makes them superior. On the contrary, it is best to face religious people head on, especially since most people lie about their religious beliefs. To take them at face value is to presume they are morons, and that seems to be the agnostic position.

by Anonymousreply 23801/19/2013

No, people who live fact-based lives are more believable, serious and reasonable than those who live a superstitious, fantasy-based life. It's just how it is. See, religion has taught you to not accept and process fact in any accepted way. Just because you've surrounded yourself with like-minded people doesn't make it reasonable.

by Anonymousreply 23901/19/2013

[quote]Well finally, some of the atheists are answering, although in very defensive, accusatory ways.

ROFL.... Oh, the irony. Tell me, dear, have you ever heard of the term, "projection?"

[quote]Wow. Some of you need to take a breather and calm down a bit.

You really should follow your own advice, dear.

[quote]I said, verbatum, "SPIRITUAL balance".

So? Sorry, dear, but that doesn't change anything. The notion that atheists have no SPIRITUAL balance in life is just as ignorant and just as insulting.

[quote]Take it however you want to take it, but I honestly feel bad for many of you.

LOL.... I, on the other hand, feel nothing but amusement for you.

by Anonymousreply 24001/20/2013

God is apparently pissed at DataLounge.

by Anonymousreply 24101/20/2013

Is anybody else here getting a half-assed thread watcher and no new thread postings as in "nothing found?"

by Anonymousreply 24201/20/2013

I hope that, despite this thread, atheists and religious people can live in harmony, but...

DEATH to Chick-Fil-A. Regardless of religious status, a good and kind person should hate that restaurant with a passion.

by Anonymousreply 24401/20/2013

R243, is that really the best response you can come up with? You really are defensive, aren't you? Is your faith really that shaky?

by Anonymousreply 24501/20/2013

Yesterday I treated a patient who is going to die young, because his religion is against he treatment that would save his life. I didn't try to change his mind because people have a right to refuse treatment for any damn-fool reason they please, but fuck! What kind of religion demands that people DIE rather than accept life-saving treatments? You'd think that would only be found in the most fingey cults, but it's mainstream.

I just want to vent, thanks for listening.

by Anonymousreply 24601/20/2013

I very much believe in God and life after death.

I believe in Jesus, because what Jesus actually taught and did are revolutionary and good, still. Turning the other cheek. Putting more emphasis on treating people well than on following cultish rules of behavior and judging.

I am, like just about everyone on this thread, generally suspicious of organized religions.

by Anonymousreply 24701/20/2013

Let's talk about trolling, R243, shall we?

[quote]You will when he returns.

[quote]has his beliefs, and you have yours (or, apparently, not). Grow up.

[quote]Such a small-minded way of thinking, [R82].

[quote]That's actually a pretty sad and pathetic way of thinking. I feel sorry for you.

[quote]The vitriol and smug self righteousness that many of the non-believers in this thread are displaying just shows what happens when you have a lack of faith--you become bitter and despicable.

[quote]What happened in some of you people's lives that would make you just not believe in anything? We are not just here to be here. There is a divine plan in everything. I just hope most of you wake up and realize it before it's too late.

[quote]That's not me being self righteous, [R169] (some of you people on here hold the patent on self righteousness), it's just the truth.

[quote][R175], nevermind, hon. Your whole vibe is just pretty depressing.

[quote] I stated that your views are sad--almost hopeless, because they are.

[quote]But not as despicable and bitter as the one you see when you look into a mirror.

[quote]You exemplify the type of lash-out tactics that people with such a limited viewpoint as yourself often display.

[quote]My being a believer has nothing to do with atheists. I pray that they find some kind of spiritual balance in life

[quote]You may insist on there not being anger in your tone, but I see it very clearly. I actually find your little barbs to be amusing, if not very immature and somewhat depressing.

[quote]Are you that closed-off to the possibility that something greater than all of us is out there? Does it make you feel like less-than to have some sort of spiritual guide? Did something traumatic happen in your life that just made you stop believing?

[quote]Well finally, some of the atheists are answering, although in very defensive, accusatory ways. Wow. Some of you need to take a breather and calm down a bit.

[quote]Your answer was just as accusatory and angry as the other guy upthread. Take it however you want to take it, but I honestly feel bad for many of you.

by Anonymousreply 24801/21/2013

You see, R243, there are only two types of people who would write what you have written on this thread:

1. An ordinary, garden-variety troll, someone who is simply stirring up shit to get a reaction.

2. Someone who is insecure in their faith, who is desperately trying to convince themselves, and trying to make themselves feel superior by denigrating others, beginning with your very first post on this thread.

Which are you, R243?

by Anonymousreply 24901/21/2013

[quote]Someone who is insecure in their faith, who is desperately trying to convince themselves

This is something I have often felt is what motivates the Bible thumpers. So often I have asked them why they care so much about me not believing in God? Their answer is usually, "I dont care, but God does." WTF? If you dont care, why make such a big stink?

by Anonymousreply 25001/21/2013

All this religiosity superiority makes me even less of a believer. Both extremes are off-putting, however, the non-believers are just more sensible and humane.

by Anonymousreply 25101/21/2013

R252 Are non-believers shooting doctors and bombing women's clinics?

Are non-believers hijacking airplanes and flying them into skyscrapers?

Was it non-believers who planted a bomb at the Atlanta Olympics?

Was it a non-believer who set off car bombs and shot up a youth camp in Norway?

Was it non-believers who killed 14 traditionalist shamans in Peru?

Was it a non-believer who set off a truck bomb in Oklahoma City?

Was it non-believers who insisted a woman in Ireland be forced to give birth knowing full well it would kill her?

by Anonymousreply 25301/21/2013

R253,their answer to that is always Communism=Atheism. You obviously haven't argued with any freepers in the last thirty years.

by Anonymousreply 25401/21/2013

Op, I've seen Bishop Robinson speak, and he's an incredibly warm man. I can see why people made him Bishop.

I have the odd point of view (for which I will surely be flamed) that God isn't a person, but an energy.

Whether one calls it God, Allah, nirvana, whatever...

by Anonymousreply 25501/21/2013

What the bible says about gays is beyond anything I could imagine. I don't see how/why any gay person would believe/support such hate.

by Anonymousreply 25601/21/2013

And good for you R248 for calling that poster out. I'm tired of idiots calling people trolls when they are a troll themselves. Happens all the tie. If you can't handle DL stay off of it.

by Anonymousreply 25701/21/2013

[quote]Really? What thread have you been reading?

This one, beginning with your posts.

[quote]The believers have been called everything from "fools" to nothing short of mentally challenged for having faith and walking by it, and we're the less humane ones?

Based on your posts, yes. Your glass house is far too fragile for you to be throwing those stones around.

by Anonymousreply 25801/21/2013

[quote] you are generalizing

Nope. I am just asking some questions.

[quote] Not ALL believers bomb abortion clinics, damn gay people and hijack planes.

I never said they did.

[quote]Open your eyes. Open your mind.

My eyes are open, so open that I cant help but notice you cant bring yourself to answer questions which can be answered with a simple yes or no. Why is that?

by Anonymousreply 26001/21/2013

R262 You did not answer the questions in R253. You responded to the post in R259, but the seven questions, all of which could be answered with either a yes or a no, you completely ignored. Why?

by Anonymousreply 26301/21/2013

"Why I Am Not a Christian"

by Bertrand Russell

by Anonymousreply 26401/21/2013

[quote]I said, verbatum, "SPIRITUAL balance". I have no clue as to what other kind of balance you may or may not have in your life, but I was speaking on SPIRITUAL balance.

Do you even know what you mean by that? I'm not sure you do. I sure as hell have no idea what you mean by it... or why you think you have so much of it, but atheists are utterly lacking in it. Hrm.

by Anonymousreply 26501/21/2013

[quote]Atheists get on my nerves because they like to make it seem as if it is some sign of stupidity to have faith.

Maybe stupidity is too strong a world. Gullibility maybe? A lack of critical thinking? A mind stuck tightly in a little box, unable to think outside of it?

by Anonymousreply 26601/21/2013

[quote]Once again, go back and read the entire thread.

Dunno about you, but I did. You entered this thread in full attack mode and you got exactly the responses you were looking for, so you could play silly games about how persecuted you are and how terrible "atheists" are.

[quote]I never called anyone out of his/her name

So? Look at that bullshit quoted in R248. How is it better that you didn't use anyone's name?

[quote]but several atheists have called me everything from a "moron" to a "fool"

Based on your posts here, both appellations are well-deserved. Again, read your own words in R248.

[quote]to someone who doesn't have control of his own life.

Q.E.D.

[quote]I also never said I was perfect, so your little "glass house" idiom must be about someone else.

LOL.... Nope, it's about you. Here's a Bible verse for you: Matthew 7:1-5.

by Anonymousreply 26701/21/2013

R267, I'm assuming you're new to this thread, unless you've cleaned your cookies, because trolldar isn't showing you further upthread. Anyhow, you say you re-read the thread? I don't think so

[quote]You entered this thread in full attack mode

Really? My first statement in this thread was "You will when he returns." Now, I don't know what your idea of "full attack mode" is, but, let me inform you, that certainly isn't it. And, if an atheist takes that statement as some sort of a threat, then maybe they need to rethink their spiritual leanings (or lack thereof)

[quote]So?

So??? LOL. Several atheists in this thread have complained about being "attacked", when the theists are the ones being attacked. I never out-and-out called someone stupid, or a moron, or child-minded for NOT believing. If you want respect, you'd better give it. Period. If you don't agree with that, tough shit.

[quote]Based on your posts here, both appellations are well-deserved

Coming from you, my friend, I consider that a compliment

[quote]Here's a Bible verse for you: Matthew 7:1-5.

Who's judging? I've simply stated that I'm a believer, WHY I'm a believer, and have occasionally expressed my opinions on those who DON'T believe, as they have of me and other theists (i.e., we're all radical abortion clinic bombing, doctor killing, hate-spewing freaks).

by Anonymousreply 26801/22/2013

Imagine a world without this ridiculousness.

by Anonymousreply 26901/22/2013

[quote]Who's judging?

You are, actually.

[quote]I've simply stated that I'm a believer.

ROFL.... Wow.... you really haven't read your own posts, have you? I call your attention to R248.

by Anonymousreply 27001/22/2013

R268, although you've said you feel blessed in life and that you don't need hard evidence to believe (I'm paraphrasing here) I'm still interested to know more about why you believe.

Also, how do you resolve the following arguments from atheists? For instance, religious beliefs differ widely across the world, most so different from the others that they cannot all be correct. Additionally, ones religion is almost always determined by ones place of birth. Doesn't this suggest that religion was developed from within particular societies rather than imposed by external, supernatural beings?

Second, the basis of Christian belief rests solely on the Bible. How do you resolve the inaccuracies and contradictions in the Bible? If each part of the Bible requires the part that precedes it to be accurate, doesn't settled science with regard to the age of the earth and the evolution of man completely discredit the only source of Christian belief?

by Anonymousreply 27101/23/2013

R270, I never said that I [italic]only[/italic] stated that I'm a believer. You conveniently left out the last part of my sentence, which was:

"and have occasionally expressed my opinions on those who DON'T believe."

That long list of my quotes you love to frequently go back to is a list of my opinions. If you're going to quote me, and then point to previous statements of mine to debunk that quote, then please get it right. Thank you.

by Anonymousreply 27201/23/2013

[quote]It's a long list of personal attacks, from someone who is either a troll or who is terribly insecure in themselves and in their religion.

Personal attacks? Come again? Those "quotes" of mine are in direct reaction to the way theists have been treated in this thread. Remarking about the arrogance of many of the atheists in here is a personal attack? It's true. Read the thread again and YOU tell ME who gets attacked more. Then again, most of you seem to be biased, so I guess it's no use.

by Anonymousreply 27401/23/2013

What R1 said. I don't really care if one exists or not. It will not change the way I live or act. I'm already a decent, live and let live person.

by Anonymousreply 27501/23/2013

[quote]You can pretend that you were justified

Oh, it's no pretense.

[quote]But that's because I'm secure in myself and my beliefs.

Oh really? So secure that you felt the need to go and do a run-down of various things that I've said in this thread. YOU were the one who addressed ME, not the other way around. I think this alleged "security" that you have is a bunch of lip service, otherwise you would've done exactly what you purport to do on FreeRepublic.com and kept it moving if you were so "offended" by my "attacks."

My "despicable" comment was in response to an attack on me. If your fellow atheists were adult enough to carry on a back and forth without resorting to calling someone "stupid", "foolish" or a "moron" because of his beliefs, then I wouldn't have felt the need to defend myself. As I said, to get respect you have to give it, but they apparently don't have that level of maturity. Now you have a BLESSED day.

by Anonymousreply 27701/23/2013

R177, I'm a "fellow atheist" who hasn't called anyone stupid. I did however pose a question to you that seem to be ignoring, so I'll ask it again. How do our explain your belief in God and how do you resolve the arguments of atheists (and agnostics and theists, too) which raise significant doubts as to the veracity of Christianity.

Why not further the discussion?

by Anonymousreply 27901/23/2013

Would you two quit arguing. This belongs in the "most memorable freak out" thread.

You're both cunts.

by Anonymousreply 28001/23/2013

LOL wow, that was quick. Ok, here goes...

[quote]Yes, actually, it is

No, it actually isn't. But if you want to go back and forth all night...

[quote]I've always loved exposing a hypocrite.

And the biggest hypocrites of all--the atheists who attack the theists and yet claim to be the ones who are attacked get a pass? I think you're "exposing" of me is a result of me hitting a nerve of yours. Like I said before, YOU addressed ME, not the other way around.

[quote]Says the individual whose first reply on this thread was: "You will when he returns."

Why does that line unnerve you so? What atheist would feel the need to defend himself against that line if he truly doesn't believe in God? If you're so secure in your beliefs, then that shouldn't bother you--hence my earlier assessment of that lips service.

Gurl, 'bye!

by Anonymousreply 28101/23/2013

[quote]Would you two quit arguing. This belongs in the "most memorable freak out" thread. You're both cunts.

LOL, you're right. But that guy at R278 is so pissed that he just won't leave me alone! I keep forgetting he even exists and then WHAM!

by Anonymousreply 28201/23/2013

Theists are all lying when they pretend they believe in God. They don't. They just think most other people do, so there are social advantages to be gained by pretending. We see that with the Bizarre Theist Troll on this thread. There is so much "devil's advocacy" you can tell she's just a frustrated chick who is mad because she would have made a better lawyer than whatever lame profession she did enter. I don't think she believes a word of what she says.

by Anonymousreply 28301/23/2013

Forgive me, R279. The troll at R278 is trying to monopolize my time, but I do appreciate you for being adult enough to have a normal conversation without flaming, namecalling and being a general asshole (like R279, but, I digress...)

I don't necessarily feel it my job to resolve the arguments of atheists. I asked earlier in the thread "Why NOT believe?", and was flamed for that question/statement by some of your less mature compatriots. I just find it difficult that someone could resolve being okay with not have any sort of spiritual base, particularly since we're all going to face that one great unknown sooner or later--death. Sounds morbid, but it's true.

I was raised a Christian, attended church regularly as a child, hence my belief in God. That, coupled with all the good things I've witnessed him do not only in my life, but in the lives of so many others that I know, is plenty of reason for me to believe. I'm not one who looks at all the negativity in the world and says "How can there be a God when this is going on and that is going on?" I'm one who says there is a reason for everything, and one day we'll all have the answer to that mystery. As I've gotten older, I've decided that I don't necessarily need to attend church service on a regular basis to know that God is real.

by Anonymousreply 28401/23/2013

[quote] but I do appreciate you for being adult enough to have a normal conversation without flaming, namecalling and being a general asshole (like R279, but, I digress...)

Sorry, I meant an asshole like R278 (although, I'm pretty sure he knows who he is...)

by Anonymousreply 28501/23/2013

In your opinion^

by Anonymousreply 28601/23/2013

Why not believe? I'd say it is for two broad reasons. First the tangible evidence upon which Christian dogma is based is incredibly flawed. The second reason is less tangible - the fact that humans around the world all share similar beliefs with regard to origins and life after death suggests that the underlying questioning of life and fear of death creates religion and that geographic isolation explains the varying beliefs and stories. That is, it's believed to be true but actually isn't and cannot be true.

I'm not a theist or agnostic because I don't believe the universe requires a higher power, and if something's not necessary it probably doesn't exist (Occam's Razor). Again, adding the underlying fear of death and we can see spiritual belief fulfils a very human purpose (defining spiritual belief in supernatural terms, and not by connections to nature, art or music which some people consider to be spiritual).

The reason I struggle to have a "live and let live" attitude to religious dogma is because it's the cause of so much grief in the world. While it's true that without religion we'd find other reasons to fight and cause misery, I do think religion severely restricts the ability to consider logical and reasoned solutions that may otherwise be apparent to all concerned.

I get the fear of death thing. Many atheists have no fear of death, but I'm not one of them. I don't worry about what happens after I die, but struggle with not wanting to die because life is too good and I don't want it to be over. Although I tell myself death is a price to pay for being lucky enough to live, I still explore escape clauses on the odd times I contemplate dying.

by Anonymousreply 28701/23/2013

[quote]Yes, actually, it is

Nope, sorry. No comments on a site known for pointless bitchery "justify" the responses you've given. Just own up to your own aggressiveness and ill behavior and move on.

[quote]And the biggest hypocrites of all

...would be the people who say one thing and do another. Have you looked in the mirror lately? I repeat: WWJD?

[quote]Why does that line unnerve you so?

It doesn't. It was a personal attack and it was your entry into this thread, which made your further claims of victimhood moot, and funny. You went trolling and you got exactly the responses you were looking for. Again, be an adult and own your behavior.

[quote]If you're so secure in your beliefs, then that shouldn't bother you

LOL... It doesn't. I found it amusing. And your comments after that even more amusing. And your lame defenses of those comments freaking hilarious.

by Anonymousreply 28801/23/2013

[quote]Do you believe in God?

No! No!

For the love of Christ, No!

by Anonymousreply 28901/23/2013

Fuck, no.

by Anonymousreply 29001/24/2013

I'll bet a lot of people who say they're believers are just conformists, going along to get along. It's like believing in Santa Claus your whole life. But when you're dying, and Santa will supposedly whisk you off to happy land in an afterlife, I'll bet a lot of them know they're really just going to die and rot in the ground.

by Anonymousreply 29101/24/2013

I live in Melbourne, Australia and luckily for us, we are not a fundamentalist christian nation like America is.

In fact, the christian church is dying out here. They are closing down and being sold off because only the old people are going to church these days and they are dying off too now. That speaks volumes about how out of touch christianity is with reality. People are too educated to believe in the nonsense and bigotry spouted by the various churches.

Only today, 2 christian party politicians (we have a handful in total) have had to step down from Parliament because of their homophobic comments that are so out of touch in Australia. One said he wouldn't have gays teach his children (he also looks a bit retarded and his surname is Gaynor – ironic) and the other person likened homosexuality with paedophilia. They were both fired today and there has been an outcry from Australian's. This is a great thing. This is progress. Sure - there is a very small element of fundamentalist christians in our country but they are slowly fucking themselves over so that they can no longer operate in society when no-one has enough respect for them to listen to anything they have to say.

Speaking of paedophilia; there is a current slew of actions, both legal and media reporting (outing?), against the catholic church which is attempting to bring all the catholic priest paedophilia to light and stop the church from hiding it. Justice for the victims is priority and that is a great thing.

It has also become socially unacceptable to speak about christian beliefs in general society and something that would have you up in HR if you tried discussing christian beliefs (read bigotry) in the workplace. This is another great thing. In fact, being a christian has become something that is undesirable, embarrassing and looked down upon. I wouldn’t have a devoted christian as a friend. I couldn’t. I couldn’t ever respect them.

Generally, christianity is dying out in Australia. This is because the general public is too educated and too enlightened these days. As the oldies die out – there is nothing left for christians. This is a very great thing. Sure, when we do our census, you have to have to select your religion but this is now nothing more than saying you are blond, brown or red haired. No-one actually believes in it or goes to church. It literally means little more than nothing these days and that is a very great thing.

The person who said that you have to have christian beliefs to have morality earlier in this thread is disgusting and completely wrong. In fact the entire statement is a complete oxymoron.

All churches actively encourage war, bigotry, hatred (even against other religions) paedophilia and mostly importantly for this audience, homophobia. Just look at the news, newspapers and Internet for a plethora of evidence. Don’t take my word for it.

For me, and for everyone I know, the answer is no – we don’t believe in a god.

And that is the best thing of all. Perhaps we can get on with becoming accomplished, educated, empathetic human beings who are focused on furthering our existence once the churches have been eradicated from educated Western countries. (Well, except America).

Religion won’t last another 100 years and will be looked back upon as we do now with the Greek Gods... The Greek Gods used to be what christianity used to be too.

Now they are just stories for children…

by Anonymousreply 29201/24/2013

[bold]Do you believe in God?[/bold]

I believe in the existence of God. I'm just not into practicing a religion. I don't go to church. Anytime I address God I do so privately.

by Anonymousreply 29301/24/2013

[bold]Do you believe in God?[/bold]

No.

by Anonymousreply 29401/24/2013

Are you two still going at it? Jesus......

Look, some people believe and that's fine. Some don't and that's fine too. Agnostics claim to not know and Apathetic Agnostics (like me) neither know nor care whether there is a magic fairy in the sky. My belief is that IF there is a deity he is not looking over us and doesn't even care about us. He is omniscient and oblivious to our existence at the same time. The universe is too vast a place for one to concentrate on us tiny insects.

by Anonymousreply 29901/24/2013

I like churches for their architecture, but the people are foul, just foul.

Actually, I don't think fear of death has any role at all in the religious impulse. I think the religious impulse is the same as the scientific one, controlling nature. But the scientific way is patient inquiry and experimentation, and the religious way is to suck up to somebody who is believed to have more control and knowledge than you, in this case God, in that case the Medicine Man, the witch doctor, the Priest, or the leader. Or in modern America, the rich man. It's all the same impulse, power and control. But only one way works, and it's not the kissing ass way.

by Anonymousreply 30001/24/2013

I think the foxhole analogy has got it backwards. First of all, no painful or scary situation in my 50 yrs has ever suddenly made me a believer. It doesn't bother me that I'll just blink out of existence when I die, I'm not narcissistic enough to think that I'm so important I have to exist forever. People much like me will continue to live, and that's enough immortality for me.

To the contrary, I think facing death makes a lot of believers "foxhole atheists." When bullshit fairy-tales are all they have left to save them, their suppressed doubts will get louder and force them to accept that there's no immortality safety-net after all.

by Anonymousreply 30101/24/2013

Scientists who study the Universe believe in God in surprising numbers.

by Anonymousreply 30501/24/2013

That is true R305

by Anonymousreply 30601/24/2013

Apathetic Agnostics neither reject or deny. They simply don't give a shit. It doesn't impact their life.

by Anonymousreply 30701/24/2013

R307, don't all Agnostics take that stance?

by Anonymousreply 30801/24/2013

I'd be keen to see data supporting that assertion, R305 and R306. The general view is that scientists disbelieve at significantly higher rates than the general population - only 7% of the National Academy of Science members believe in God (roughly 21% agnostic, 72% atheist). I'm personally interested in cosmology and read quite a bit on the subject, and I haven't read anything yet that says (or even hints) that God is involved.

Regardless, no matter your profession or level of education, the social and cultural factors that influence all of us are very powerful, and it's not a surprise that scientists might hold contradictory beliefs.

Humans have evolved to a point where we are intelligent enough to contemplate our own limited lifespans, and yet we maintain the animal instinct to keep ourselves alive at all costs. It's not really a surprise that we've redefined death to remove its sting as a way to balance these two conflicting impulses.

by Anonymousreply 30901/25/2013

God is dead.

by Anonymousreply 31101/25/2013

Like most fundamentalists, I see that R310 picks and chooses what he or she wants to see, notwithstanding the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Atheists are well aware that personal attacks are the result of the inability to pose cogent responses to our arguments. If being an asshole gives you comfort, feel free to carry on.

by Anonymousreply 31201/25/2013

I don't believe in 'God' as a supreme being. What I believe is a sort of collective consciousness. If we treated people according to the Golden Rule (which most so-called Christians actually don't), then the world would be a much better place, and people wouldn't have to put their faith in deities to save them or feel better about themselves. At the end of the day, this is what it should be about.

by Anonymousreply 31401/25/2013

R308 most agnostics claim no one knows but if they had proof they would believe. Us AA's still wouldn't care.

by Anonymousreply 31501/25/2013

What cracks me up about Christians in the Bible Belt is if you don't believe or don't go to a church, or if you simply say as I do "I'm not religious at all" they are really flabbergasted and don't know what to do or say. One of the first questions I was asked by someone, and at work too, was what church did I belong to and had I accepted the lord jesus into my heart. The woman stood there blinking in bewilderment. She never bothered me again except to come by once in awhile and talk about going to church on Sunday in a very smug "you're going to hell and I'm not kind of way". She was also the worst gossiper and busybody in the office which I found hilarious. She was a huge hypocrite.

by Anonymousreply 31601/25/2013

It's all a farce, astrology has more relevance.

by Anonymousreply 31701/25/2013

I'm atheist, in fact I was pretty hardcore like most posters, but my boyfriend wasn't; he wasn't religious but spiritual. He was perfect except for that, I couldn't let it go and did everything to try and bring him round and make him see sense and let go of his superstitious nonsense.

I couldn't resolve it, I try so hard and in the end I probably went overboard and got maybe too heavy, we broke up, well I broke up and I did it viciously. I wanted to really hurt him. I was so angry at him.

That was 3 years ago and now I am in a great relationship with a guy I care for so much. He is an atheist too and we share all the same political/ cultural views, we are pretty well matched and planning to marry this Fall.

But every morning when I wake up my ex is the first thing I think of; where is he now, who is he with, what's he doing. In all my quietest moments he is the person I think about.

Sometimes I get so pissed, but I guess what can you do? My ex is long gone and if I did see him again, he'd hate me and I still don't know if I can resolve my atheism with his believe.

by Anonymousreply 31801/25/2013

R318 is serving up some Fatal Attraction realness.

by Anonymousreply 31901/25/2013

Oh. My. Science.

R309 dear, you posted probably the most cogent, well-reasoned of opinions, and did it in such a way that was neither demeaning, or insulting. So, the question has to be asked: Are you a stranger to Datalounge? :-)

Seriously though, bravo. I agree with much of what you stated.

by Anonymousreply 32002/01/2013

[quote]Why are gay atheists such disgusting and nasty creatures?

Because Christians are such hateful, violent and frightened animals.

by Anonymousreply 32102/01/2013

I agree with R301. My bf was a "Christian," even sent money to Billy Graham. I was willing to go to church with him when he was sick and terminally ill, but every time we made plans to, he decided he'd rather stay in bed snuggling.

by Anonymousreply 32202/01/2013
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