Lending money to a friend and not getting it back
Over the holidays, I did some Christmas shopping for a sick (housebound) friend who was recovering from surgery and couldn't drive. Bought a bunch of stuff on his list, totaling about $250, brought it to his house etc. I paid at the time and didn't demand money upfront since my friend was sick/out of it.
Well, now my friend is fine, back at work and so on, and I'd like to be reimbursed. I brought this up casually twice and both times my friend says sorry, keeps forgetting, will do it via PayPal. Just checked this morning and still nothing.
My friend isn't a jerk and has been in my life for years. I honestly think he's just a scatterbrain. But...I need this money. Short of going to his house and watching him type into PayPal, what can I do? I think you DL etiquette mavens might be able to help...
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 61||01/07/2013|
[quote]Short of going to his house and watching him type into PayPal, what can I do?
Why not just do that? If someone owed me $250 and were jerking me around about paying it back, I would have no qualms about visting them in person and standing there until they'd logged in and transferred the money into my account. If they didn't consider themselves my friend afterwards, so be it. They put me in the position to have to do it.
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 1||01/05/2013|
Agree with R1. And in the future, don't loan money to friends.
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 2||01/05/2013|
How about the truth...
"I really need the money, can you take care of it right now please?"
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 3||01/05/2013|
Ditto what R1 & R2 said. This guy is very thoughtless and no friend if he thinks that he can just wait and wait before he pays someone back $250, which for me is a lot of money. The fact that you also did his shopping for him while he was sick is a real slap in the face. The least he could have done was repay you promptly.
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 4||01/05/2013|
Scatterbrained or not, OP, paying you back is not a priority for him.
I learned at an early age that lending money to friends and family is a risky proposition. Do not lend it unless you accept the possibility that it may likely end up as a gift.
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 5||01/05/2013|
He doesn't have a checkbook?
You're screwed OP. You will either get your money back or keep a friend. You can't have both.
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 6||01/05/2013|
Agree with all the above. Go to his house, tell him your credit card bill is due and you need the money NOW.
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 7||01/05/2013|
What I would do is face to face him and say, in a very kind tone, "Look, if you're having dinancial problems, you can just give me half now, $125, and we can settle up the rest next month. I was glad to be able to do you the favor while you were laid up, but things are very tight for me right now. $250 is a lot of money for me at the moment."
I know he's your friend and he elicited sympathy because he was sick, but honestly,I hate it when I have to be apologetic to ask for something that actually belongs to me! I hate friends who make you beg, or seem to beg when it's them who owe you.
Toughen up OP. Be assertive and polite, but firm. If he gets irritated with you, so be it.
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 8||01/05/2013|
If it's that big of a deal, you shouldn't have "lent" him the money in the first place.
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 9||01/05/2013|
[quote]You're screwed OP. You will either get your money back or keep a friend. You can't have both.
If I was OP, I'd rather get my money back than keep this "friend" because this guy is obviously no friend if he thinks it's OK not to pay back $250.
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 10||01/05/2013|
If you're too shy to ask him again then call him and tell him you'd rather get cash than PayPal (this is a way to broach the subject yet again without feeling weird). Tell him you'll come by to get it at a certain time. He's going to have to have it there when you arrive or things will really get awkward. Then kiss and make up.
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 11||01/05/2013|
[quote] I brought this up casually twice and both times my friend says sorry
Does your friend have the money in his bank account? If so, the casual talk is over. You need to have a serious (but not confrontational) discussion.
Tell your friend (in person) you need/want the money back in the next week (or two)--come up with a mutually agreed deadline. Do not lose your focus by distractions when you talk to him/her. Do not be mean or nasty about it because you don't want to alienate him/her before getting the money back.
And if your friend has the money in the bank, do not agree to getting reimbursed in installments. Tell your friend you want all the money back in one lump sum.
Does your friend have a credit card? If so, he/she can go to the bank and get a cash advance. The bank will charge your friend's credit card, and then your friend can give you the money back in total...and he/she can pay back the money as a credit card charge over time.
But stay focussed in your discussion. Do not be distracted or allow your friend to change the subject. If your friend knows you're serious, this "scatterbrain" excuse will not be part of the discussion. And be prepared that this situation could damage your freindship--so be nice but direct until you get your money back.
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 12||01/05/2013|
If he's a scatterbrain, as you say, he probably knows he owes you money and feels bad about it. You'd do him a favor by going to his house and asking him to take care of it. That way he doesn't feel bad, has paid his debt and you have your money...
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 13||01/05/2013|
You're not the guy who lent the $20 to a work colleague a while back and drove us all nuts deliberating about asking for it back ? If you are, you just don't learn do you ?
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 14||01/05/2013|
OP I understand where you're coming from. It's awkward to ask to repaid for something but at the same time, it shouldn't be. I mean, he is the deadbeat and so often when you lend people money you're made to feel like you're the jerk for asking for what's rightfully yours.
Your friend, scatterbrained or not, doesn't think it's a priority. Frankly, if he hasn't paid you back already, he doesn't care to and probably won't.
People like him won't do it unless you actually call him out and say, "Hey, I need you to pay me back the $250 today, my bill is due."
And do it in person. Make sure there's no way he can make an excuse about putting it off until later.
And if you're at his house while you're doing it and he says he doesn't have the money, grab something worth $250 and say you'll hold on to it until he has the cash.
Tell him you don't mean to be a jerk about it, but you have a rule about getting paid back because you've been jerked around too often by "friends," and it's nothing personal.
And then from this point forward, come up with a rule.
I've learned from too many deadbeats that take any opportunity to take advantage...
1) I never, "loan" money. If I give it to someone, I give it with the expectation that I won't get it back or
2) I always get the money upfront and like I said above, I tell the person it's nothing personal but too many shitty people ruined a good thing.
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 16||01/05/2013|
He's not going to pay you back. Write it off then stop associating with him.
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 17||01/05/2013|
R17 it seems a shame to lose a friendship over $250, especially since they must have been close friends for OP to do that for him. So I suggest OP takes some suggestions here and if they don't work then maybe, yes the friendship was not meant to continue.
OP I would love to know how this turns out. So keep us informed.
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 18||01/05/2013|
If he was your friend, he would have paid you back without being asked. Or, if he didn't have the money or couldn't pay you right away, he would have said something to you on his own.
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 19||01/05/2013|
Tell him he has to either give you the cash or provide a sexual favor. I bet he gives you the cash faster than you can imagine.
Write it off on your tax returns as a bad debt. The kicker is, it then gets added to his taxes as income. A lot of people don't know you can do this.
I bet if you tell him you're going to do that, he'll pay up faster than he would if you told him it was cash or blow.
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 20||01/05/2013|
Playing devil's advocate:
1. Did you agree to a certain pay back date?
2. Xmas was just a few days ago. Aren't you jumping the gun a bit?
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 21||01/05/2013|
If he were a REAL friend, paying you back or making arrangement to do so would be a priority.
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 22||01/05/2013|
Bitch couldn't Amazon like every other self-respecting shut-in?
What else do you do when you're sick? You shop and you shop hard. This is not a good American homosexual, OP.
You should visit and break some of his stuff.
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 23||01/05/2013|
Go to his house and beat his ass. Find is wallet and take the cash out!
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 24||01/05/2013|
If this was something you had done for me I would have paid you back as quickly as possible as well as giving you a very nice gift for doing the favor.
You went above and beyond for a friend. Even if I was scatter brained, I would recognize this and make it a priority.
Do what you have to. He's putting the strain on the friendship by his negligence. Not you for asking (which, seriously, you should not even be having to do.)
Don't worry about his feelings because he's obviously not worried about yours.
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 25||01/05/2013|
[quote]Write it off on your tax returns as a bad debt. The kicker is, it then gets added to his taxes as income. A lot of people don't know you can do this. I bet if you tell him you're going to do that, he'll pay up faster
Oh, this is one of the most interesting and creative solutions I've read here in a very long time. I like it. Be sure to invoke the word "audit," that always gets people going. Start with "Hey, buddy, if this thing is going to turn into a bad debt I'm gonna need your SS number so I can report this on my return. If everything's not on the up and up we might get audited." Make him crap his pants a little.
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 26||01/05/2013|
Chances are, the friend doesn't have the money right now and is buying time with the PayPal excuse.
If the OP needs the money now, he should just pay the bill late or borrow the money from someone else.
I don't put up with leeches and users, but something tells me this is a long term friendship not worth destroying over $250.
Eat the expense and move on with the lesson.
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 27||01/05/2013|
Borrowers with a tale of woe are the least likely to honor their debt. Responsible people rarely borrow from friends.
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 28||01/05/2013|
Why not? It doesn't sound like it's been much of a friendship if the other person is willing to not fork over the $250.
Who needs friends like that?
If the guy doesn't have the money, he shouldn't have given a list of presents to be bought that he couldn't afford.
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 29||01/05/2013|
I have loaned friends money with the understanding I will never be paid back. You either have to let it go, or stop being their friend. Every time you see them buy something or talk about eating out or whatever you think - so you did that rather than pay me?
I loaned a friend 700 one time who needed it for rent because his meth addicted bf had up and left him with all his stuff. A month later he called me to tell me about his new bed he bought for 700 dollars. I paused but never said a word. That was the last time I loaned anyone money.
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 30||01/05/2013|
do this on his pillow. really
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 31||01/05/2013|
He's not "forking it over" because he doesn't have it.
Buying Christmas gifts with money he didn't have describes lots of people.
Waiting on $250 longer than expected is a good lesson to learn now. Since the OP gave the impression that his is unexpected behavior from someone he's known for years, I think excommunication is unnecessary.
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 32||01/05/2013|
100% agree with the poster who suggested that you consider money you "loan" to friends or family to be a gift—assume you're never going to get it back.
If you can't live with that, don't give.
As for this situation, ask him directly, and ask him again and again directly until you get the cash, you passive-aggressive bitch.
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 33||01/05/2013|
Which would then mean the guy knew he didn't have it and knowingly had his friend (who seems like might also not have the money) buy them, with no intention of being able to pay it back in the near future (if ever).
The fact that they've been freinds for years is exactly why the OPs friend shouldn't have treated him this way.
To each his own, but I stick to the thought of... who needs friends like that.
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 34||01/05/2013|
OP, your post does not make it clear that this was considered a loan. You said your fiend was sick and you decided to spend money on him while he was out of it.
A person who's incapacitated in any way cannot enter into a binding contract.
It sounds like you decided to be a good samaritan on your own and now expect reimbursement. This is not how loans work.
You need to chalk this up as a loss and consider money spent a gift for a sick friend.
Your case is dismissed
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 35||01/05/2013|
Way too much talking. R3 has it right.
Also, next time you're going to help someone housebound, drop by and pick up his credit card first. You can even be a different gender than the cardholder. It's no big deal. Just sign the sales slip, and then there's no prob.
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 36||01/05/2013|
The OP and his friend sound like they're on the low end of the economic scale. They tend to rob Peter to pay Paul and when one check doesn't arrive, everything they "thought" they could pay on time becomes delinquent. Then, they get sheepish, make excuses, and try to buy time.
No malice, just dumb with money.
Also, if the OP's finances are so tight $250 has him in a major crisis, he may want to pause before eliminating friends who he might need one day.
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 37||01/05/2013|
If OP is ever in a Financial Crisis, I don't think he's going to get any from the friend who is dodging paying him the $250.
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 38||01/05/2013|
[quote]OP, your post does not make it clear that this was considered a loan. You said your fiend was sick and you decided to spend money on him while he was out of it.
No - it's not that. It's this: OP's friend was sick and was like, "Can you please do my Christmas shopping for me? I want/need to and can't. Here's my list of gifts I need to buy for various people."
OP did it but made the mistake of forking over his/her own cash. Would have been wiser to say up front, "Love to help - I'm able bodied and can do it - just need a check from you in order to proceed."
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 39||01/05/2013|
Go you YOUR PP account and send her an invoice. That way the reminder will keep appearing.
Whenever I lend money to a friend, I always say, "That's fine just write me a check. Ah when do you get paid, that way I can deposit the check right after you get paid next."
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 40||01/05/2013|
You're being stupid, and an ass, OP.
First off, 1st rule is never borrow/lend money or buy or sell stuff to friends.
But if you ARE going to do it, you do it from a point of understanding that these things never go well - and if there are to be complications, then Oh Well, get over it. If you mentioned it twice, then enough he'll get to it eventually. If you are hard up for a measly $250, you shouldn't have done it to begin with. If you are life long friends, then chill out and he'll either get to it someday or return the favor when you're in need.
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 41||01/05/2013|
I think R27/32 is on the right track, the friend doesn't have it right now and is stalling for time.
R30, I've had the same thing happen to me. I lent a friend $1,500.00 dollars and while I waited to be repaid, she'd call and tell me all about the cruise she was going on, the new purse she bought, etc. (Yes, I got my money back and vowed to never lend friends money ever again.)
R15, EST? Besides being one of the more annoying type trolls on DL by posting that, have you never heard of people lending money and having a problem being repaid?
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 42||01/06/2013|
[quote] Over the holidays
How long ago? Late November? Early December? The week before Christmas?
[quote] Bought a bunch of stuff on his list
Did you mutually agree that you would buy the stuff?
[quote] brought it to his house
Did you give him the dockets? And discuss payment?
[quote] My friend isn't a jerk and has been in my life for years. I honestly think he's just a scatterbrain.
Surgery can affect memory. And surgery can involve unexpected costs.
I think that you probably need to write-off the debt - fretting and/or prompting him isn't a good situation.
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 43||01/06/2013|
He didn't ask me to buy these things. I did this as a favor. I saw his list and took the initiative, because I am a GOOD friend.
These were things he were going to purchase, anyway, so it is not as if I bought a a bunch of random things of my choosing and then demand he pay.
Yes, Christmas was only last week, but obviously he would have bought these things for Christmas so should have the money. Plus, he's not poor. I don't have poor friends.
I think he's probably just forgetful, but it's also possible he's being intentionally withholding.
I used to believe he was a sociopath until I saw him cry at his mother's funeral. But two of his boyfriends have died under suspicious circumstances, and part of me feels he has a darkside.
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 44||01/06/2013|
[quote] He didn't ask me to buy these things. I did this as a favor. I saw his list and took the initiative, because I am a GOOD friend.
Then he doesn't owe you any money.
[quote] Plus, he's not poor. I don't have poor friends.
But you are poor?
[quote] two of his boyfriends have died under suspicious circumstances, and part of me feels he has a darkside
Too much information. Now you sound like a troll.
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 45||01/06/2013|
Benjamin Franklin, maybe, said, "Neither a borrower nor a lender be."
It's good advice, if you value the friendship.
In college, I asked a friend to loan me $50 or $100 dollars. She had graduated and had a great job.
It was humiliating. I'd never asked for a loan from anyone outside my immediate family, and rarely then.
She turned me down, explaining that she'd loaned others money and it hurt their friendship, when they didn't repay her. She said she valued our friendship too much to risk it.
I was initially hurt that she didn't trust me enough to believe I'd pay her back. Now, having been in her position, I understand it completely.
I never loan money to friends, although they always promise to repay me. If I can afford it, I give them the money with no expectation of repayment.
If they do pay me back, great! But I never expect to see a penny.
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 46||01/06/2013|
R45 is correct. This is a troll.
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 47||01/06/2013|
[quote]Write it off on your tax returns as a bad debt. The kicker is, it then gets added to his taxes as income. A lot of people don't know you can do this. I bet if you tell him you're going to do that, he'll pay up faster
The friend will just claim it was a gift and the IRS will then audit the OP for his attempt to deduct it as a loan.
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 48||01/06/2013|
R45 has it right.
OP, it was nice of you to do this, but your friend in no way asked you to do it, as you are saying here. Who knows, maybe his list was just a rough draft and he would later realized he`d have to cut it down a lot and not buy that much. This is exactly what I did this year. I had to pare down my initial list as I had less to spend (underemployed at the moment and just now have leads on a better job).
Still, he shouldn`t be commenting that he keeps forgetting to pay you via PayPal if the reality is that he doesn`t have the money. If you`ve been good friends, then what he owes you is to be honest with you above anything else.
Out of curiosity, did he thank you for buying the gifts or how did he act
Financial advisors always advise people never to lend money to friends and family if they really expect it back. If you can`t afford to lose the money, you should never lend it as the real cost can be the relationship.
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 49||01/06/2013|
[quote]Benjamin Franklin, maybe, said, "Neither a borrower nor a lender be."
Umm.... yeah, no.
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 50||01/06/2013|
Call him and ask, "Is Monday at ____ am/pm a good time for me to stop by and pick up a check?" (Using a time that you know he will be home.)
"Yes? Great! See you then."
"No? Then when's a good time for you? I have some bills that I need to pay..."
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 51||01/06/2013|
This is my policy OP. I never lend moneyt to a friend. I give them the money if I can afford it and if I can't they get nothing from me. That way if they want to pay me back well and good if not I did give it to them in the first place. The ball is in their court.
I did lend $5k to a work mate once. His car had died and he used it to fix the car. No car no job. We had a signed contract with payments but no interest. He then wanted to use the money to buy his wife a used car but I felt if she wanted a car she could get off her lazy ass and get a job. No kids, no job and she spent as much time as possible shopping and lunching with friends. Hence his lack of emergency money. I told him no and he was cool to me for the rest of my work life there. That taught me a huge lesson.
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 52||01/06/2013|
[quote]Plus, he's not poor. I don't have poor friends.
That part right there made me lose any empathy that I had.
What a jerk.
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 53||01/06/2013|
R50 Sorry but I did say "maybe."
Ol' Ben has so many apocryphal quotes attributed to him, I wasn't sure.
It's still good advice, whoever said it.
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 54||01/06/2013|
R44 is a troll, but it's not the OP.
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 55||01/06/2013|
Being scatterbrained is not an acceptable excuse. He owes you the money, no two ways about it. But you have to accept the idea that you may never get it back and that he is not the friend that you thought he was
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 56||01/06/2013|
[quote]two of his boyfriends have died under suspicious circumstances, and part of me feels he has a darkside
This is a trolling post. Ignore.
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 57||01/06/2013|
R52, I'm curious. Why did you ever agree to enter into a contract like that? How did that arrangement even come up? I find it so interesting that once the coworker had the money in hand, his car suddenly wasn't in need of repair.
Oh, and OP is a troll.
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 58||01/06/2013|
What R57 said. Time to move on.
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 59||01/06/2013|
OP here. He put the money in my paypal account, plus $50. I asked him what the extra $$$ was for and he said he figured I needed the money since I was "being such a bitch about it".
This was over text or I would have vicously slapped him.
The thing is, he died 2 months ago.
|by NO good deed goes unpunished||reply 60||01/07/2013|