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I just don't care about Israel and Palestine anymore

Let them work out their own problems. And that means less aid to either side than the US has been giving before.

When I was in Northern Ireland this summer, I was aware when going through history museums in Belfast and other cities how the Northern Irish people had grown to hate armed conflict in the Seventies, and when a new generation grew up they put aside the stupid and endless childish bickering of the two sides in the previous generation once those people had died out. I only hope the same thing will happen in Israel.

But if it doesn't, it's not my problem nor my country's. The US has nothing to gain from Israel or from the Palestinians any more now the Cold War is ended.

by Anonymousreply 2611/21/2012

Sing it, sister!

I think the only ones who actually care about this ridiculous conflict anymore, are Israel and Palestine.

The rest of the world doesn't give a shit.

by Anonymousreply 111/20/2012

When I think of the $$ and the weapons the US has poured into Israel...

Last I heard (yesterday), Palestine had 100+ casualties; Israel, 3.

We need to stop supporting them.

by Anonymousreply 211/20/2012

Yeah, right, OP. That's why you posted this:

[quote]I'm sorry "Who's the Boss?" is not on TV anymore, OP, so you no longer feel connected to your childhood.

[quote]That's the saddest thing I've heard all month.

[quote]by: dying child maimed by bombs in Gaza

Face it, OP, you're just one more obsessed freak who had to start yet another thread on Israel and Palestine.

by Anonymousreply 311/20/2012

[quote] We need to stop supporting them.

We need to stop supporting the entire region.

The US paid its debt to the Middle East. We rescued millions of Jewish people from Nazi oppression, and we threw millions upon millions of aid at Arab refugees.

We don't owe Israel or Palestine ANYTHING.

They are both sovereign, and are fully capable of unilateral diplomacy. They don't need the US to mediate or interfere.

By putting matters into the hands of the affected parties, then things will get solved. Leaving everything up to the US, allows both sides to use us as a scapegoat and a bargaining tool.

Remove the US from the picture, and both Israel and Palestine are forced to work together.

Again - we don't owe them ANYTHING.

by Anonymousreply 411/20/2012

OP, Israel has America by the balls. You will have to care. There's no way around. Israel gets the biggest welfare check from the US than any other country in the world. It gets its weaponry from the US as well. Whatever happens in Israel happens in the United States. It's basically the 51st state. Israel has its drones in the United States Congress, it's also a favorite of the Pentagon. When Israel goes to war, you're going to war. The US President takes orders from Pentagon, not the other way around, which is not how its suppose to be. In order to become president, every candidate has to swoon AIPAC. Obama waited until the last minute to do so. He tried his best not to, but in the end, Israel won out.

Babi was backing Romney for a reason. He is pissed that he's stuck with Obama for another four years. Israel always has an ulterior motive, and they're going to try and use this incident to test Obama. If all hell breaks loose and he does nothing, they'll make him look weak on the foreign policy front, and Obama will have his image tarnished.

Right now, they're agreeing to talks thanks to Hillary Clinton, but mark my words, they'll start up all over again in no time. They want a war with Iran, and that's all there is too it. They know this escalation will give Iran an excuse to attack Israel, and then Israel will have an excuse to attack Iran, which will then draw US forces in for the long haul, trying to take out Iran in hopes of stopping an all-out nuclear war.

Israel was the dumbest idea in history. They should have made an "Israel" anywhere BUT in the Middle East.

9/11 happened thanks to our support of Israel. Israel is not an ally of the US, nor is Saudi Arabia, or even pre-revolution Egypt.

by Anonymousreply 511/20/2012

[quote] Northern Irish people had grown to hate armed conflict in the Seventies, and when a new generation grew up they put aside the stupid and endless childish bickering of the two sides in the previous generation once those people had died out.

Yeah, a prisoner officer was shot on his way to work a few weeks ago over sectarian squabbles. It's not as bad as before, but underclass types breed sectarianism in their kids, and it's far from gone.

You have to hate something if you're life's crap I guess.

by Anonymousreply 611/20/2012

I don't think Israel was the dumbest idea in history exactly. I think having a Jewish state - or any other state based on ethnographic and or religious identity - created smack in the middle of the 20th Century was a mistake. And the illegal growth of settlements from 1967 on was not only a mistake but an immoral violation of international law.

The question, impossible to answer as it is is, remains what do we do now?

Rather than throwing blame here and there the only thing to do is to try to come up with a solution. I am reaching the point where I think there never will be a solution - not a two state one, not a one state one, not anything.

And what is it about? NOTHING. Ethnic division, which is a lie. As an American (btw an American Jew), although I recognize genocide and ethnic oppression in my own country's history, the idea of dividing people ethnically is completely antithetical to my political beliefs and my sense of right and wrong and of patriotism. Why should people fight these wars over religious and ethnic differences? It's bullshit.

Get rid of all Jewish symbols in the flag, unite Israel, Gaza and the West Bank under one name with a flag without ethnographic or religious semiotics and a new constitution guaranteeing freedom and liberty for all and get on with it. A country where all people are able to live anywhere they want like any civilized nation on earth.

As I write this I realize that in the context of this little part of the world - the size of New Jersey and populated by a few million people and the cause of much of the world's anxiety and we're all sick of it - that this is a Utopian dream.

But how long are we going to try things the way they've been since 1948. Forever? The idea that both sides will live in peace any other way is equally Utopian.

Perhaps, for once, we should just try to do what's right?

by Anonymousreply 711/20/2012

One state solution. This would no doubt also mean a war, but at least it might be a war against those who believe in one state for all, true revolutionaries committed to equality, and the fanatics and chauvinists who are living in the Middle Ages.

A new nation with no mogen or crescent moon on its flag, not a Jewish state, not an Arab state, not a Muslim state or a Christian state, but a modern state with a constitution for all.

In other words, a democracy not based on ethnics or religion, which are the most dangerous concepts in human society and are completely manmade (especially when you are talking about divisions between ethnic and religious groups with this degree of kinship to begin with).

by Anonymousreply 811/20/2012

Funny you should bring up Northern Ireland. It wasn't long ago people felt the problems there were as intractable as Israel/Palesting. The US played a pivotal role in achieving peace in Northern Ireland. Bill Clinton is well regarded there for his role in it. We could do the same in the Middle East but we're not an honest actor there - we too much favor one side.

by Anonymousreply 911/20/2012

I think they should send Ann Romney over there to tell them to: "Stop it!! Just stop it!"

by Anonymousreply 1011/20/2012

[quote]I don't think Israel was the dumbest idea in history exactly. I think having a Jewish state - or any other state based on ethnographic and or religious identity - created smack in the middle of the 20th Century was a mistake. And the illegal growth of settlements from 1967 on was not only a mistake but an immoral violation of international law.

That was exactly what I was saying.

Take land and give it to the people (Jews) the prior inhabitants cannot stand. Place the Jews in an entire region that cannot stand them. Yep, brilliant idea. Who on Earth could have foresaw this causing a problem.

One thing Arabs are good at = holding grudges.

by Anonymousreply 1111/20/2012

No one should be allowed to live there at all. Let religious tourists visit for the day and make them stay elsewhere or just burn the whole place down.

by Anonymousreply 1211/20/2012

Our country puts Israel's interests before our own.

by Anonymousreply 1311/20/2012

The "holy land," including Jerusalem and all its environs should be nuked into glass making them impassable and unapproachable for a thousand years.

Remove the place where religious zealots and hysterics can convene and worship over and 90% of the world's wars would be over within a generation.

by Anonymousreply 1411/20/2012

The situation in Northern Ireland only serves to reveal the US' blatant hypocrisy when it comes diplomacy.

When the Brits (you know, our best ally?) and the IRA were still going at it, but talks were starting, there were NO preconditions put on the IRA.

-They weren't made to recognize British rule.

-They weren't made to disarm (in fact, John Cardinal O'Connor, Peter King, etc., stated the Irish should NOT disarm).

-The Congress didn't continually pass resolutions supporting the Brits which only served to hinder the process.

-US govt didn't continually scream about one side being "bent on the destruction of the other." Meanwhile, the actions of the side they defended revealed who was actually doing the destruction.

-The US didn't veto every single resolution on behalf of one side, even when the behavior was against Int'l law.

-The US didn't have it's balls in a vise because of a lobby that puts the interests of a foreign country ahead of this one.

Gerry Adams (Sinn Fein) -a man who was still considered a terrorist at the time (80s/90s) and whose voice couldn't even be aired on British television- was hosted in the US by the likes of Peter King and Rudy Guiliani. Rudy even presented him with a glass apple.

When Arafat came for some UN meeting and all world leaders were invited to some function (some of whom had blood on their hands), Arafat was the only one Guiliani decided to throw out of some function. Now of course, people with an inability to see the larger picture will instinctively respond "Good!" Here's the thing: It doesn't matter what you think of Arafat because when a Guiliani is selective in which leader he finds abhorrent after having hosted and celebrated the likes of a Gerry Adams who many believe has a lot of British blood on his hands, then it's no longer about right and wrong - it's politics. It's about special interest.

The US is a disgrace when it comes to what they've done in the Middle East. To have both the govt and media continually portray Israel as this wittle country surrounded by big, bad A-rabs and I-ranians who all want to kill Jews is so dumb and patronizing.

When you have the likes of a Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck and Coulter defending your side, assume there's something wrong.

by Anonymousreply 1511/20/2012

You might not care but you're paying for it.

by Anonymousreply 1611/20/2012

[quote]Yeah, right, OP. That's why you posted this:

[quote]Face it, OP, you're just one more obsessed freak who had to start yet another thread on Israel and Palestine.

Referring to the sufferings of people being killed that are constantly in the news right now hardly means someone cares about the political aims of that people's government or the political aims of the government of the other side.

What a feeble attempt at a "gotcha!" moment.

by Anonymousreply 1711/20/2012

Fuck Palestine !

by Anonymousreply 1811/20/2012

You make peace with your enemies, not your friends.

Until the US is prepared to comprehend that it isn't fair to just assume the Palestinians must negotiate with any Israeli leader the Israelis elect, while just allowing the Israelis to dictate the terms for the other side, is why the Israelis have become arrogant bullies.

Bush and Israel forced elections on the Palestinians; they isolated Abbas. When Hamas got elected (because why would the people want Abbas after the US/Israel made him look weak?), the US/Israel changed its mind, threw their support behind Abbas and the closures started. Palestinians punished for who they voted for, but Palestinians can't just set up a blockade when Israel elects a Sharon or Netanyahu. Democracy, my ass.

All of this. All of this coddling and financial/military support and kowtowing and blind defense of Israel to the point of attacking our own presidents and politicians if they aren't completely beholden to the rightwing of Israel via AIPAC, would inevitably turn any one or country into an arrogant bully.

No one should be surprised by this. I mean anyone who is defended to a fault will inevitably think they are never wrong and can do whatever the hell they want because no will stop them.

Social media has done a lot to reveal the myths about Israel being this bastion of freedom and democracy, because Lord knows the antiquated media is doing their best to keep up that appearance. The Iraq war was a lie pushed by the media, so assume you aren't being told the truth when it comes to Israel as the consummate victim.

The US would defend Israel bombing Palestinians even if Netanyahu claimed it was because he was once served an undercooked falafel.

by Anonymousreply 1911/20/2012

Has anyone read anything about a re-partition of Palestine? It would be sort of scrapping the 1948 partition for something attempting to approach fairness and reality. One partition boundary has the Palestinians getting about half the West Bank and much of the Galilee region (sort of another Lebanon) and Israel getting the rest, including Gaza. Both sides would have to concede alot although the Palestinians, if you care to look at it that way, were the first who had to concede anything in the first place back in the 1920s. One of the biggest problems will be sharing the water supply. I think in this re-partition plan, which is floating around the internet, no populations would necessarily have to move anywhere, so both Jews and Arabs could stay where they are albeit they may suddenly find themselves in a minority position.

by Anonymousreply 2011/20/2012

I feel the same way. In fact, I am sick of the Middle East. Let them duke it out and kill each other. Why do we even have to be involved - oh yeah, oil!

by Anonymousreply 2211/20/2012

R15's comparison between the Irish Troubles and the Israel-Palestinian issues is worth a read.

by Anonymousreply 2311/20/2012

[quote]Starting the umpteenth thread about the issue, claiming not to care, still not bothering to have learned the facts, and trying to divert an entertainment thread thread to an I/P discussion is a worthy subject for being dressed down. Fuck the OP and fuck you, too, you sanctimonious cow.


Pot, thy name is kettle.

by Anonymousreply 2411/20/2012

me and Kourtney and Klowe wants all the bad things hapening in those states to stop cause we wants to open a dash store

by Anonymousreply 2511/20/2012

America need to stop giving weapon to isreal. isreals are muders who dont care about people.. This innocent people dont have alot weapon to defend their self and they taking full adavantage of that ... There is kids dying in here ... Isreal need to crow up and for god sake leave the poor people alone. You took their country n you are killing them...

by Anonymousreply 2611/21/2012
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