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JESUS CHRIST help me with a family situation

My partner and I agreed, after about six months of heavy discussion, to allow my kid sister (she's 35) and her 3 year old daughter to live with us. Now we are regretting this BIG TIME and don't know what to do.

We have been together 5 years and have a solid relationship. Unfortunately my sister needed serious help leaving a physically and verbally abusive marriage to a total asshole. We had many talks about this together, I explained over and over what she could expect here, and how things would be. My partner and I have a 6 year old son, and are not new to the challenges of parenting.

Fast forward to two months later, which is how long she has been here. We spent right around $7000 getting her here - paid for an attorney for her divorce, had her entire house packed up and put on a truck, had her car towed here, and flew she and her daughter out from TX to PA where we live. Since she has been here we spent another $1000 repairing her car, and the overhead of having them here i.e. groceries, cable, sundries, etc. is becoming greater by the day. She has literally NO money until she begins receiving child support in about a week, but it's only $500 per month and we are not asking her to put any of it towards the bills here.

We just wanted (and told her we expected) her to get settled, and get a job, and save all of her paychecks so she could afford to get out on her own with her daughter in about a years' time. In two months she has done nothing except sit on the sofa in her bathrobe all day, every day, and chain smoke on the balcony. She NOW refuses to get a regular 9-5 job, saying "that's a dead end" and that she doesn't want to put her daughter in day care because the cost will eat up the bulk of her paycheck. This is actually true.

So she has a lot of flaky ideas about how to make money working at home, like having a website where people ask her for advice (OMG), and she would charge like $30 an hour. Or that she can start a drop-shipment business, or some other wacky idea. We've tried telling her these ideas are not realistic.

All of her belongings are in our garage; we can no longer go in there. The rest of our house is covered in toys, messes she never cleans up, and cigarette butts are all over the place outside. The list of annoying and intrusive things is endless. Of course we expected most of them; but not to this extent. But the most worrisome issue is that her daughter displays major behavioral issues way outside the realm of normal 3 year olds, due to emotional trauma. This breaks our heart, and we love the little girl. But she is VERY hard to deal with and this situation and the stress resulting from it is now causing our son to have issues he didn't before. He has developed an acute facial tic his pediatrician says is the result of stress. This makes me so sad.

In a nutshell, my sister is a goddamned basket case. She definitely has post traumatic stress, but she is also a very strong willed individual and very stubborn. She insists she is "not depressed" even though she clearly is and refuses to see a therapist or go on medication. It is all I can do to get her to take walks a couple of times per week or get out of her bathrobe!!!

The past week I have been more vocal in letting her know she REALLY needs to get an exit strategy and start focusing on how to get on with her life. She has done nada to meet anyone here, get involved in the community, get her daughter into playgroups or activities, etc. I have presented many opportunities to her in this aspect and she ignores them.

Now my partner is becoming so stressed out by the money we are spending, her shitty attitude, and laziness. He resents me as well because I reassured him many times that things would not be this way - and they are. My niece wakes us up every morning at 5 am with her shrieks and screams, and it goes on all day and through the night. We can escape to work during the day, but evenings are hellish.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 15711/21/2012

EST. I say six for effort and elaborate detail, but the facial tic was one toke over the line, so I can't go any higher than 6.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 111/17/2012

If your child is being damaged by this situation, tell her to leave. You are her brother, not her mommy.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 211/17/2012

I don't believe Jesus Christ posts here.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 311/17/2012

Send her to a shelter

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 411/17/2012

You did rather dig your own grave, OP.

I really feel for you, but if she's disrespecting you, she has no right to stay in your house.

Don't you have parents who could help?

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 511/17/2012

Agree with R1, the facial tic ruined an otherwise decent, and amusing speil.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 611/17/2012

What a mess. You and your partner are good people for helping her. Make her sit down with you and a therapist and develop goals and deadlines and consequences. Above all, don't let her and her unfortunate kid ruin your marriage and kid.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 711/17/2012

You're right, R3. I think he has an account at Buzzfeed.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 811/17/2012

When you say she REFUSES to get a job, to see a therapist, etc., I don't understand why you can't say, "But that was our agreement. We agreed to help get you out of that horrendous situation SO THAT you could get on your feet. But sitting on your butt all day is not getting on your feet. I will help you get a job, but you have to agree to it. I will help you see a therapist, but you have to go faithfully and do the work. If you do not, you and your daughter must leave. Those were the conditions when you came here, and those are the conditions now. Get a job and see a therapist, or you may no longer live here."

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 911/17/2012

Hold on a sec ... I'm writing this all down in my spec script for a joint LOGO/Lifetime movie.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 1011/17/2012

Who's paying for her cigarettes?

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 1111/17/2012

"So she has a lot of flaky ideas about how to make money working at home, like having a website where people ask her for advice (OMG), and she would charge like $30 an hour."

Be sure to tell her that there's already a place for the forlorn, fools and freepers to come to get advice, doused in cuntery and superiority, for just $18 a year.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 1211/17/2012

What r4 said. By this point she could probably be living on her own if she received all the public assistance available to her, section 8, food stamps, Head Start etc. And that's not including her child support. The government offers single mothers a ton of assistance, more than anyone. And there are other organizations specifically in existence for women like her. Drop her ass off at the welfare office and tell her not to return until she has everything covered.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 1311/17/2012

R10 wins.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 1411/17/2012

The reason she is doing nothing to move on with her life is because she has no intention of doing so. She is waiting for the abusive asshole to "realize how much he really loves her" and beg her to come back. Which of course she will do.

But I hope I am wrong about this.

Snoop around. Check her phone, email, etc to see if and how much she is corresponding with her "ex".

You need to take a stand and make her realize that this is a temporary situation and that she needs to start making an effort to put her life back together. If I were in your situation, I would start by telling her that storing the stuff in the garage is NOT an option. Make her put it in storage and pay the monthly fee herself; if she is not paying any rent, etc. then this should not be a problem.

If you want to get rid of her asap, tell her she has one week to get the kid on MA and get her to a doctor for a full checkup and a referral to a child psychologist to address her behavioral issues and to help "deal with the stress of divorce". She will leave skid marks on her way out the door.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 1511/17/2012

Something similar happened to me about a year ago, OP. A relative became homeless due to refusing to seek help for her bipolar. Somehow, the bipolar was making her believe it was fine to sleep in her car indefinitely, although previously she was a very fastidious person who would be horrifed to do any such thing. Her teenager lives with his dad. He hates his mother. I really fear what will happen when she's old. He will refuse to help her because he just does not give a damn about her welfare at all. His dad had a lot to do with that.

When she had bronchitis and was sleeping in her car in the freezing cold, we had her come to stay. Pretty much like your situation. We had no choice but to throw her in the street, having no idea where she would go, because she was so disputive. We tried really hard, but she absolutely refused all medical help and was drinking besides. She ended up getting a job, and moved in with a guy from work. She got fired shortly after. That was a mess, but we are not responsible for her any more. She continues to drink and refuse all treatment. Now she won't speak to us at all.

Is the father of the child REALLY crazy and abusive, or is it the mother's craziness that caused the drama at home? What is his opinion about Crazy Lady raising his child? Can you get any information from him or their friends about what was really going on? Sometimes once the couple is separated, at least one of the partners is able to calm down and get control of themselves to some extent. Are there any other relatives to help you?Grandparents?

You need to get control of the situation in your home. You need to find a doctor that will see her, make an appointment, and tell her, if you will not go you must leave this house. If it's not safe for the child to be with her then call CPS. Mentally ill people lie and are very manipulative, you cannot allow her to tell YOU what she's going to do. She's already doing that and she's running your entire house, traumatizing your child and ruining your life. You need to be very blunt and tell her that's what she's doing. Mentally ill people do not catch cues from you, they can barely follow a conversation and their minds can't focus.

Before you have it out with her, remove your child and send them to stay elsewhere. There will be a huge scene. Speak to the doctor beforehand, give your version of the story. No doctor will discuss her condition with you, but they will listen to you inform them about her condition. Explain what is going on with her and her child. He may feel obligated to tell CPS what's going on with the child. You must speak with him before he sees her, she will lie and lie and turn everything you say around. Also be ready for accusations that you mistreat your own child or hers.

You need to lay down the law, OP. Chances are if you tell her she must see a doctor or she cannot stay, she will leave and refuse to talk to you. I feel sorry for the child, but unless you can get CPS involved, legally you can do nothing. Don't expect the police to help you, they won't unless she is physically attacking someone. You can call them at the non-emergency number and ask them for advice, but don't expect a lot. We got no help at all. You need to do something soon, before she qualifies for "residency," that makes it a lot worse depending on your state.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 1611/17/2012

it's your way or the highway. 9-5 will be a dead end for her considering the kinds of jobs she's likely toget, but that's her reality. Tell her that. Her stuff goes out now. Call a mover and have it all,placed in storage. Tell you you willmpaymthe first mont, after that its up to her. If it gets sold after 90 days for storage, too bad. She is OUT kid and all Aprol,1st. 2013. No fooling. She has Gil then to get a job and save up some money so she can move. These dates are hard and fast. She is a baby who never grew up and wants and needs rules. Also, tell her that after aprilm1st she is no longer welcome in your home....ever. otherwise she'll screw up her job because she doesn't want tomworkmand figure she'll move back in with you. Post a list of homeless shelter somewhere.mhe must knowmyounare serious.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 1711/17/2012

[quote] The reason she is doing nothing to move on with her life is because she has no intention of doing so. She is waiting for the abusive asshole to "realize how much he really loves her" and beg her to come back. Which of course she will do.

I think R15 is onto something

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 1811/17/2012

Actually, r6, my nephew has one from the abusive situation my sister is forcing him to live in because she doesn't want to leave the house she's in if she left her psycho husband.

She is bullying my mother into supporting her, draining my mother's retirement savings.

This situation may be an EST, but it is so eerily similar to my family right now, I give it at least a 60% chance of being real.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 1911/17/2012

Just let her stay in one of your other houses.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 2011/17/2012

OP - what is your question? Oh, that's right. There isn't one. You're just venting.

Sounds like you aren't willing to do anything different in this situation, much like your sister. Both of you have extreme boundary problems. ie: you don't have any. I don't blame you. Your parents are responsible for how you both turned out and I'm sure you know exactly how this all happened.

Let me guess: Were you always the "good kid" and she the "fuck up"?

Parents who allow their children to coast in these roles are doing them a HUGE disservice. As evidenced in your current situation.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 2111/17/2012

Let me at her.

No. Seriously.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 2211/17/2012

We learned from our situation that bipolar people have VERY unrealistic ideas about what will work and how they can live. The "work at home" schemes sound exactly like what a bipolar person would come up with. They are not living in reality. She probably really believes this will work. She probably also believes the ex wll take her back, whether he will or not.

I know it's hard to make a stand in this situation, but think of your partner and child, OP. They can't wait until April.

Get her to a doctor ASAP. Tell her it's go to every appointment and take every pill, or out she goes. Likely she will be out that door so fast your head will spin. If she refuses to get help and refuses to leave, call CPS. One visit from them and she will take off. Somehow these people do land on their feet - my relative got thrown out of four friends' houses, one after another. None of them knew what a mess she was, they let her in and had to throw her out because she was drinking in front of their kids and wouldn't look for a job.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 2311/17/2012

Beat her.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 2411/17/2012

Bi-polars are not the only ones capable of being self-deluded and irresponsible R16.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 2511/17/2012

OP, my partner and I have let 3 different friends move in with us over the years. We have had to tell all three that they needed to leave. 2 of them stayed for six months and neither were trying to find work.

I'm sorry for the situation you are in.

I would encourage her to start applying for public assistance.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 2611/17/2012

You have to set a time limit. Must have full time job and be in your own apartment by such and such. Gotta let go of her kid, too. It sucks, but this is her mom. You can't save anyone at the expense of yourself.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 2711/17/2012

OMG, this reminds me of a situation I was once in. It didn't end well.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 2811/17/2012

Agree with r27: definitely set a deadline.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 2911/17/2012

What's with all the typos, r17? Are you having a stroke? Or is that gimpy finger acting up again?

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 3011/17/2012


Slap the sister's face.

Dump the partner, NOW!

Kick the little kid in the ass.

take a trip to cancun, enjoy!

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 3111/17/2012

People have a choice in life. Help someone all the way or not at all. Give her a fucking break and get off your high horse.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 3211/17/2012

You need to tell your sister she HAS to get a job. It can take up to a year to find even a part time minimum wage job. Now is the perfect time to find something before christmas. She doesn't have to leave the house either. Most places accept applications on line. Actually, most prefer it. She still needs to go out once a week and go into little independent stores with her resume and ask if they are hiring.

She has to look for a job. No one is going to knock on your door offering to give her a job. You can help her type up her resume tomorrow.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 3311/17/2012

Sadly, you have limited options in this situation. Being a therapist and treating numerous situations like this I can only tell you that ruining your life is no option. You will have to make the choice to ask her to leave. I feel many of the other posters are correct although a bit harshly. This is not PTSD. It is possible that she could indeed be waiting for the husband to come get her back. This would not be out of the realm of norm for these types of situations. You have done your best. It was not enough for this and you have to accept that and let this go before it takes everything from you. Consider this the sign you have been waiting for and please let this go. good luck.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 3411/17/2012

Almost all those work at home jobs are scams, except for call center employees. Almost all of them are part time jobs

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 3511/17/2012

You and your partner are great people.

Threaten to take custody of the child if she doesnt get her shit together, and then you will kick her out.

I feel sorry for her kid. She didn't deserve any of this.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 3611/17/2012

Time for tough love.

If you don't set deadlines and limits, your child and your relationship with your partner will be irreparably damaged.

I wish you well during this stressful time.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 3711/17/2012

r36 here, a therapist has spoke at r34..... I'd go with his/her opinion.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 3811/17/2012

You would, R38? It's all very cool and calm but 'let this go before it takes everything from you' is all very well but the girl HAS nowhere to go.

I'm sure OP would LOVE to 'let this go'

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 3911/17/2012


by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 4011/17/2012

"You can stay here one more month. On December 16th, we will change the locks and anything in the house or the garage that's yours gets carted away by Goodwill. The end."

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 4111/17/2012

That will be a fun month, R41.

The word bedlam, meaning uproar and confusion, is derived from the hospital's prior name. Although currently a modern psychiatric facility, historically it became representative of the worst excesses of asylums in the era of lunacy reform.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 4211/17/2012

OP, you havw some nerve using 'in a nutshell' in the middle of that snoozefest.

If you had started with the concept 'in a nutshell', no one would've needed to read any of that word vomit.

I stopped at 'in a nutshell'.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 4311/17/2012

[quote]People have a choice in life. Help someone all the way or not at all. Give her a fucking break and get off your high horse.

How is the OP suppose to help someone who isn't trying to help themselves?

I tried to help someone at work who wanted to get their driver's license. I shifted my schedule around to accomodate her. I rode with her driving my car to give her lessons. She could only drive right after work and then only to her apt. from work. She couldn't stay late because she had to fix her dead beat husband and her kids dinner (her husband didn't work).

I finally told her this wasn't efficient and that we needed a block of time. We spent about 4 hours one Saturday practicing. I told her we needed to practice more and that she could use my car to take her driver's test on a Saturday and that I would go with her.

She kept putting off when she could meet - after the holidays, after her vacation. Finally I told her just to call DMV and and make a Saturday appointment. When she called, they told her they had just quit giving Saturday driving tests.

I gave up in frustration and a bit of anger. I offered her a great opportunity and she wouldn't make it a priority. I ended up selling the car and the car I have now has a clutch.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 4411/17/2012

You sound like an incredibly nice and generous spirited person, R44. I hope not too many of the wrong people take advantage of you.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 4511/17/2012

Consult with CPS, for the 3 year old's sake.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 4611/17/2012

Over the years, I've learned to give the handful of deadbeats in my life just enough rope to hang themselves.

I've had both a sister and an in-law come crying to me looking for a place to stay "until they get back on their feet."

I put each in a month-to-month rental place for 3 months at a rate of $800. At the end of 3 months, let the management toss 'em out.

It cost me $4,800 (and I'm not rich) but I can say I tried helping both relatives, exit with clean hands, and they know there's no re-crossing a burned bridge.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 4711/17/2012

r47, what was their downfall?

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 4811/17/2012

[quote]Help someone all the way or not at all.

Why should those EVER be the only two possible options?

That's just nonsense. You're completely full of shit.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 4911/17/2012

Change your fucking locks. Move on with your life.

This big "problem" takes $100 and an hour to solve.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 5011/17/2012

OP, You set conditions for your help, as is your right. Enforcement and consequences were lacking. Time to get tough, and not be manipulated. Your excuse is that your kid is suffering, and it's not fair to him. One month notice is way too long. Personally I'd recommend foster care for her kid, until Mom can show responsibility.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 5111/17/2012

OP I have no time to read your post nor do I care

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 5211/17/2012

OP, if I may speak from the point of view of having been a tiny bit like your sister. I ran through a $75K inheritance in 2 years; didn't work, by choice, then had to work again when money ran out, development health problems which I stupidly ignored; became depressed; lost a great apartment share; ended up 1 week from homelessenss; brother back in NYC (I was in SF) took me in.

I was supposed to be looking for work but my heart wasn't in it. Now I WAS sicker - physically and mentally - than anyone realized, and I did try to help as insructed with housework, but again: heart not in it.

Brother drove me to a hospital after 4 weeks of this; got treatment for leg ulcers AND hospital coindidentally had a psych ward. 5 weeks there; then social worker gave me 5 options; I lived in assisted living for 3 years.

OH: along the way: brother, to whom I gave power of attorney, started the paperwork (aided by a cousin of my sister-in-law who worked in SS) and I was awarded SS Disabilliy at age 54. Six monhs "back pay" - c. $11,000 (I had worked 30 years, including NYC and SF - legal assistant.)

Got out of the assisted living (takes about 85% of your money; 1 room; shared bathroom; crazy people); live 5 miles from brother in own HUD apartment; HATE the small town BUT:

My point (sorry has taken so long): if you/your partner can somehow try to find some help for your sister. You mention the child support but I wondre if you/she/doctor could finesse the PTSD into legit permament disability? it's not a scam; I had to have doctors sign off; pass an interview; most people have to try 2times; there are lawyers who help with this.

Some people are "takers"; I am, and admit it. It will be hard for you, bu when you menion your OWN son's personality changing for the worst: you have, I think, to ask her to leave, no matter how hard it is. if she DIDN't have you, she would have had to "fall on the state" earlier.

You could always - and Im sure this is a last resort and not anything you would want, ideally - petition to take her child and raise it. or perhaps suggest same. Is there much work that she can realistically do where you live? Good point about the day care $$$. Perhaps someday she could meet a single mother in similar situations and room together

Best of luck in this difficut situation. You're a nice person to have taken her in.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 5311/17/2012

The fact that this OP - with such a load of travail - did not return to post again by now shows this to be an EST.

Other signs: the careful inclusion of specific dollar amounts, the claim that a long-distance move was needed, no mention of how the divorce was worked out in just two months or what the status of it is, no consideration of the challenges faced moving a child in a divorce situation out of state, no comment on the father/spouse/ex-spouse (Such an abusive "asshole" would just roll over for all this?) and his response to the intervention, the claim that for some reason cable expenses have become insupportable because of another person in the house, the claim that the daughter screams at 5 am every morning, the inauthentic sentence following the son's facial tic, "This makes me so sad" - too much detail with too little sense.

I suspect from the smell of it that some cunt with a case of social Munchhausen by proxy is having at it here. It sounds like a woman trying to put on a man's persona and failing at it. Six-year-old son my ass. It's the type of personality that claims to have cancer on Facebook to elicit sympathy and upset people.

And if by some bizarre warp in the structure of the universe this is a real case, of course the solution would be to give a deadline and let the bitch know that too much is too much. No sibling would be worth this crap. And a call to a lawyer would be needed to arrange the removal in a way to meet the law's requirements, if it came to that.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 5411/17/2012

You both need to sit down with a neutral third party mediator and draw up a contract. Name it "Terms & Conditions of Short-Term Co-habitation" Outline the needs & goals of both parties, list them clearly in plain language, then sign & have the document notarized. Even though she appears to be mentally unwell putting things down on paper will make the situation more clear. And being able to refer to the contract will eliminate a lot of the emotion and "he said, she said" bull.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 5611/18/2012

FF for R57.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 5811/18/2012

If she can't even be thankful for what you and your family have provided, then she ought sod off. Sorry, OP, but you deserve better than that.

My half brother was invited to stay with me for a few days when his marriage collapsed (we had not grown up together and had only met about half a dozen times at this point) and ended up staying 8 months when my elder brother invited him to move into MY place without consuting me. Came home from work to find him unloading his bed.

He is a sweet man, who paid board and helped out around house and it was still awkward. I can't imagine going through the level of intrusion you have had. Good luck, and I hope your sister finds better, more stable times ahed for her own little family.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 5911/18/2012

A neutral third party and a deadline. Sounds good to me. She's using you.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 6011/18/2012

First rule - put your own mask on before assisting others.

The first lesson they taught s as lifeguards is that a drowning person will grab you you under with them.

OP is not heartless if he throws her out. He tried in good faith to help. If the user-sister cannot make something of it, three is no rule which says he has to wreck his own life to try to help her.

Family, if the sister goes blackout the abusive relationship after all that has been one to get her out, OP's conscience is more than clear.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 6111/18/2012

Have her read this thread.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 6211/18/2012

Best advice is from R37. I wonder why you seem surprised that this is how your sister responded to all the help- did you know her at al?l

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 6311/18/2012

OP, I have the same problem with in-laws in my house who won't leave.

She is probably considered a tenant, by state law.

Check the landlord/tenant laws for your state. You may have to retain a lawyer to have her served eviction papers, if you really want her out. It'll probably go to court, where the judge will give her notice. A sheriff will come to your home to escort her out. The sheriff will also have her things put out on the street if she refuses to take her belongings with her.

I'm waiting for my court date. I want my home back, and it had to come to this. You may have to take this route if your situation is that bad and she has decided your home is now HER home.

Good luck.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 6411/18/2012

Deadbeat @ R53 says:

[quote]You mention the child support but I wondrer if you/she/doctor could finesse the PTSD into legit permament disability? it's not a scam; I had to have doctors sign off; pass an interview; most people have to try 2 times; there are lawyers who help with this. Some people are "takers"; I am, and admit it.

See? I told you. Should have voted for Mitt, you dumb fucks.

Lazy ass parasites DO NOT have PTSD.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 6511/18/2012

R57, get the hell off my thread, psycho.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 6611/18/2012

Changing the locks is not good advice.

Landlords can be prosecuted for changing the locks on tenants. Check your state laws on this.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 6711/18/2012


Your sister has PTSD and her child does as well. Your sister is scared to make the next step in this life because a part of her is frozen into place with her PTSD, meaning that she knows what she has to do, but is fearful to initiate things herself.

Out of respect for her child and yours, you and your partner need to consult with a doctor or a battered woman's shelter and get a game plan in place ASAP.

I had PTSD when I was a very young Baby Lesbian because I had a horrific childhood. I hadn't a choice but to move when I came of age. I learned that I had PTSD because I had a co worker who was an Army Vet who basically led me toward treatment for it as part of his own way of giving back. There is no shame in it but when children are involved you just have to think of them first and then guide the adult toward help just to be decent.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 6811/18/2012

I helped my sister years ago after a divorce...moved her and 2 (great) kids in with my ancient mother and myself...she had always been a drain financially and emotionally but the divorce stressed the ancient mother out so much ( the children!) I moved her from the south to the north east...without too many details-which became beyond belief- the stress of her black hole of selfishness became unbearable in a few short months...truly horrendous. I developed an exit plan by cutting my losses, giving her a down payment and first 2 months on a rental and got her out. Money well spent. To this day she still paints herself as a victim in life and has never,ever offered even a thank you for bailing her ass out for 20 yrs.You really need to access the horrible effect this is having on your family and get her out asap...she won't change but if you keep going the way you are your life sure me - the oxygen that will return to your home after they leave will be worth it all....

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 6911/18/2012

Put your house up for sale and leave her behind for the new owners to deal with.

Get her a job at McDonalds, but don't tell her - just take her there, and then tell her to go in the back and make you a burger.

Make her a profile at eHarmony - some nice Christian gentleman will surely take her off your hands.

Convince her she's supporting an abominable and damned homosexual relationship by staying with you.

Blindfold her and drop her off in the middle of the woods. Blindfold the kid and leave her on the doorstep of an orphanage.

Give her a timeline and ask her how she intends to meet it?

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 7011/18/2012

Thank you R69

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 7111/18/2012

op, you are earning so much good karma. hang in there!

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 7211/18/2012

Any chance of getting your shrink to talk to her, with you present?

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 7311/18/2012

R69 gives good advice. Save your family and your relationship with your partner and get her out of there. It will be money well spent. Why are some posters assuming she has PTSD? As someone upthread pointed out, it sounds like the only evidence her former husband was abusive comes from her. I had a friend whose sister-in-law spun wild stories about her husband, which everyone believed. Fast-forward a few years after the divorce and the husband had custody. SIL was bi-polar and the kids were scared to be with her.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 7411/18/2012

I'd call your local housing court to find out your options. Don't lock them out; you'll be liable.

Paying her rent for another place seems like the best approach: she cannot possibly blame you for such generosity and it will get them out.

This time of year a lot of places need seasonal workers. There must be something she could find.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 7511/18/2012

[quote]I should mention; my sister and I hadn't seen each other in 7 years prior to her moving here.

This explains a lot. You have rather jumped in at the deep end, haven't you? You should have travelled out there to see what was going on before you imported her at such great expense.

When this is all over you'll have learned some valuable lessons.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 7611/18/2012

You need to put your foot down, OP. You've done a lot more than most people in your situation would, and at this point she's just taking advantage of you. Others have posted lots of good advice about pushing her to get public assistance (which is probably her best option at this point), and setting a firm deadline for her to get her act together and get her own place. You said that she's expressing a desire to leave anyway; set a date that she needs to get out and give her a few thousand dollars to do as she pleases once she's gone. Whether she uses the money for something practical like an apartment, food, etc. is up to her, but at this point it will be money well spent to get her and her daughter away from your family.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 7711/18/2012

OP, too many folks here hailing you as a saint. Here's the are enabling her. There's a point at which "help" becomes enabling in a co-dependent relationship, and you crossed that line a while ago. Frankly I think you could use a little therapy to learn some boundaries. The fact that you would jeopardize your own family to help this deadbeat is dysfunctional behavior on your part. You can't "help" someone who doesn't want to be helped. You are just making her sicker by feeding into her self-destructive sense of entitlement, and her narcissistic expectations. Cut her loose. If you're worried about the child, contact someone. But you are not "helping" her by affirming her belief that she is entitled to milk your bank account dry while waiting for Prince Charming to come back and get her.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 7811/18/2012

Oh and Op, whatever you do, don't give her a deadline. She won't accommodate it. Find a shelter for battered women in your community, give her the address, and show her the door. There are lots of resources for a woman in her situation. They may not offer perfect solutions, but she had her chance with you and she blew it. It's time for her to grow up. If you're worried about the child call family protective services. She's an adult, please start treating her like one. For both your sakes.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 7911/18/2012

Is that the stabbin' nanny at r57?!

OP, get your kid into therapy and get your sister and her kid out of your house. social services are available to her. in all fairness, you did agree to give her a year to get on her feet but you don't seem to have thought this through. What did you think she was going to do about childcare?

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 8011/18/2012

r79 in most states you cannot just kick someone out of where they are living, even if they are living in your house; you can't just make someone homeless because you're sick of them. You usually have to go before a judge to get permission to evict from your house. I think FL and LA might be exceptions and you can just put someone's stuff on the street.

OP check with your local housing court.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 8111/18/2012


by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 8211/18/2012

R81, There's the law, and then there's standard practice. Hopefully his sister will respond to reason, without legal threats. Perhaps he can exaggerate the condition of his son, to convince his sister to voluntarily leave. Sad when someone's generosity is abused.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 8311/18/2012

OP, if your sister was in an abusive relationship it affected her emotionally and psychologically in ways that are hard to understand for people who are not familiar with the devastating effects of long-term abuse. Abuse erodes the victim's self-esteem and confidence down to zero. Over time she may have lost the ability to be self-sufficient and lost the will to look after herself properly.

Of course this does not give your sister license to exploit you and others who have tried to help her, but it may give you insight into her feckless behavior which sounds very frustrating to be around. But she CAN recover and get back on her feet-- I did. But I needed a lot of help from family and friends to get to where I am today. And I was fortunate to have a competent counselor who stuck with me.

Has your sister contacted any local social services for survivors of domestic violence? These programs offer counselling (typically at no charge to the client) and can help your sister in finding accommodation (again, often at no charge).

Your sister can get a referral to services in her area with a free phone call to The National Domestic Hotline: 1.800.799.SAFE

Good luck to you all.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 8411/18/2012

OP, why are you acting like her parent? You are not responsible for housing and feeding your gown ass sister. Does she even have ANY idea what this has cost you both financially and emotionally? Does she care? Sounds like she doesn't give a shit about you and your family. Why do you give a shit about her?

Kick her ass to the curb. Do it now!

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 8511/18/2012

I am seriously feeling bad for OP's partner. Poor guy was trying to be nice and supportive and agreeable and look where it got him.

I would be very surprised to hear that the relationship between the OP and his partner survived this mess.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 8611/18/2012

#1 Find an apartment and pay 1st & last month's rent

#2 Find a time when your sister and the 3 year old will be out.

#3 Pack up all her stuff and deposit it to the new apartment

#4 When she returns present her with the key and lease. Suggest dinner in a week to see how she is doing.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 8711/18/2012

R87 wins. Do what he says.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 8811/18/2012

Re: R87

This clip from The Good Wife Shows how it is done, packing up and surprising the person with their new place.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 8911/18/2012

Yeah, but you can`t sign a lease on someone else`s behalf. When the sister doesn`t pay, her landlord will pursue OP for the rent. That`s fine if OP can afford it and it saves him the guilt of throwing her out on the street.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 9011/18/2012


by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 9111/18/2012

R90 the lease is being presented for her to sign

She is getting child support in a week, that should cover at least half of the rent.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 9211/18/2012

Try beating her and calling her a worthless piece of shit.

It worked for me.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 9311/18/2012

He invited her into his home. she now has Tenant's rights. If she refuses to leave, he will have to have her served with a 30 day eviction notice. if she doesn't move out, he has to file with the court for a date.

If the judge sides with the OP, she'll be given an eviction day and a sheriff will be there to escort her out. Her property will be removed whether or not she takes it herself.

I'm going through this right now, except with an in-law.

If OP's sister understands tenant/landlord laws, she can have HIM prosecuted for changing the locks, removing her property, or trying to harass her out of the house.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 9411/18/2012

[quote] she now has Tenant's rights.

Not if she wasn't paying rent

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 9511/18/2012

[quote] the stress of her black hole of selfishness


by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 9611/18/2012

[quote]If OP's sister understands tenant/landlord laws, she can have HIM prosecuted for changing the locks, removing her property, or trying to harass her out of the house.

She can't change out of her bathrobe. It's not very likely she'll muster the energy to pursue OP in court.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 9711/18/2012

R95 - Squatters are covered under these laws, believe it or not. She is a squatter, doesn't matter of there is no lease or no rent being paid. The bottom line is - He invited her into his home so she is not a trepasser.

I have in-laws doing the same thing. My lawyer is getting me a court date to have them removed.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 9811/18/2012

Can't she get welfare? This sort of a situation is what welfare is for. She should be getting food stamps at the very least. My brothers baby mama gets assistance with rent too (I think it's actually free). The state helps with child care too, so she works part time. She even gets free healthcare.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 9911/18/2012

I agree: 4/10. No child gets a stress-related tic after a mere two months if he's a mentally healthy kid.

AND I live in PA, and it's too fucking cold out (especially if she's moved up here from TX) to spend half the day outside smoking cigarettes. I moved to PA from FL back in July, and my DOG doesn't even want to go for a walk in this cold with a doggie coat on.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 10011/18/2012

Hey OP, you live in PA? If she's not leaving, you really need to check with a lawyer.

I looked up Landlord/Tenant laws in PA. Squatters didn't come up, but tenants with children cannot be evicted, if I read the linked article correctly.

I could be wrong, for yourself and do your own research or call a lawyer.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 10111/18/2012

Kick the breeder cunt out!

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 10211/18/2012

NOW do you understand me OP?

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 10311/18/2012

I've got the solution.

Put her in an inexpensive apartment (do not sign the lease yourself, stupid) and tell her she's got ONE MONTH to find a job to pay next month's rent on her own.

While you were kind to involve yourself (and your money), you do realize that if you kick her out she'll go straight back to that abusive ex-husband of hers, don't you?

She's lazy, rather stupid (for picking that ex) and has no guts. You need to let her go her own way or you're gonna screw up your relationship and wind up losing HIM for her!

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 10411/18/2012

R34, I've had dealings with these situations as well and I would not put her out on the street. I like the idea of moving her things to a storage shelter and paying one month's rent. Then let her know that she has the month to get services set up for herself and her daughter. If she needs rides or other physical assistance to make arrangements, do what you can for that month. After that she is on her own.

This will give your partner the security he needs to know that things will be taken care of. Then keep your word. And, sadly, when she leaves, have the locks changed immediately and get a security service if you don't have one.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 10511/18/2012

Wow Brandon youhave really talked some nice shit about me here. What a fake bastard you and Charles are to my face but you can come here and say all this about me and my life - MY LIFE!!!- to all your gay friends. Fucking jerk I hate you and dont worry Ashlyn and I will be gone asap! I wish I had never moved here! Thanks for leaving your computer open, im sure you wanted me to see this on purpose. PRICK

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 10611/18/2012

Umm.... that's actually one of us just fucking around at R106, right?


Anyway, OP, as victims of domestic violence your sister and her child qualify for help. In fact, there is more help and more services available to them than there would be if they had become homeless for other reasons.

While many posters to this thread want you to put them out as punishment (assholes) it could actually be the best thing for them. If they are living somewhere temporarily, not staying with family, then housing and other assistance may be easier to qualify for.

Contact your local domestic violence shelters, groups, programs, etc. They can help her on both a practical and a psychological level. They can also help her child deal with the emotional aftermath of the abusive relationship.

She has taken a big step, you have been great to be there for her while she did it. Yay to the both of you and to your partner for going with it. Now it's time to move forward. The fact that she's fucked up and paralyzed is not unusual in long-term victims of domestic violence. It's not a lack of gratitude or laziness or any of that shit. She's fucked in the head, that's why she stayed with her abuser, that's why she's not getting it together now. She needs serious help and it's the kind that you cannot provide.

Good luck, OP, you're a good egg.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 10711/18/2012

[quote]Hey OP, you live in PA? If she's not leaving, you really need to check with a lawyer.

No, she came from PA, he's in Texas and now, so is she.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 10811/18/2012

[quote]Umm.... that's actually one of us just fucking around at R106, right?

Yup, just turn on troll-dar. You'll see.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 10911/18/2012

She has no rights as a tenant or squatter. OP can call the police and have her removed. OP could also just get her to leave, then change the locks. She has absolutely no rights as a tenant or 'squatter', that's absurd. She is a guest and Op can rescind his invitation at any time. She does have a right to her belongings, however.

I will say though, not wait any longer. If she's there as a guest you can get her out relatively easily. If she resides there for an extended period of time, and it appears that it's her domicile, you may have more trouble getting her out. Rescind the invitation NOW. Get her out immediately.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 11011/18/2012

props to r106 you had me there girl, really had me. I hope you write more stuff you're good/great.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 11111/18/2012

WW for r106. You got me too.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 11211/18/2012

Do a mix of what's been suggested in this thread-- as a last hurrah, set her up in rented place for x months. It'll be step to get her out of your house, and living with you is not helping her, she's too comfortable to struggle for herself and daughter. Managing her own space might just kickstart her to start being accountable for her welfare again. Advise her that you will pay no more after x months as it's a financial drain on your family as well. Good luck!

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 11311/18/2012

The barrage of advice, criticism, and so on is all very interesting, especially the discussion about the legal angle in removing a guest/tenant. But no one has brought up the question that beguiles me: why on earth did OP's partner agree to this in the first place? Common sense tells you that moving a troubled sibling AND a troubled child will totally take over your life. If OP wanted to be charitable, fine--but two other people's lives (I mean his partner's and his son's) have now been upended. Permanent guests are problematical even if they're wonderful, fair, generous, helpful, self-effacing, and there simply isn't room for two families in one house. You're not the Franks and the Van Daans hiding from the Nazis. If I had been the partner, this would never have happened.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 11411/18/2012

Why can't she get welfare?

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 11511/18/2012

This is really messed up OP. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 11611/18/2012

Well, it's settled.

Just reserved a moving van and movers to here a week from tomorrow. Car is being shipped back (she is afraid to make the drive down to TX and even told me that if I tried to make her, and if something happened to her and she crashed, that she hoped I could live with myself), and two plane tickets have been bought. In 8 days she will be gone.

I am sick inside. My partner was when he saw the total - $4000 as expected. But, in the long run we will save money not having her here. Our son is ecstatic. He has been so happy today knowing they are leaving.

Basically we had a blowup this morning, and she refused to take any responsibility for her laziness and lack of motivation. I told her she had thirty days to find a job and start saving money, and that we would pay for her daughter's daycare. And that if she did that, we would want her to move out within three months' time and we'd give her $1000 per month to help with rent and expenses if she would get into an efficiency and get out.

Instead of accepting this gift, she said to me, fuck it I'll just go back to TX. After ALL we spent and all we have been through getting her here. She says to me, "I just want to go home." So I said, "Then click your heels together three times and GO FUCK YOURSELF!"

She goes, "I'm fucking out of here" to which I immediately responded "GREAT! GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE THEN! AND TAKE YOUR STUPID CHILD WITH YOU!" She screamed at me and I ran out of the room. My heart was pounding, I was so upset. I immediately regretted what I'd said and apologized, but she didn't care. I very much regret saying that because my niece is innocent in this and I do love her a lot.

From there I went to my partner, told him it was OVER, and he was stunned but HAPPY. We grabbed our boy and went to Valley Forge for the rest of the day, then out to a great dinner and celebrated with a bottle of cab. We are so relieved this is about to end.

Lucky for me I have to leave on business half of this week but my poor partner and son have to stay here. They have decided to check into a hotel for a few days vs staying around the house listening to Screechy and The Blob (our nickname for her).

Well, we tried.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 11711/18/2012

[quote]hey have decided to check into a hotel for a few days vs staying around the house listening to Screechy and The Blob (our nickname for her).

In case this is truly OP... You are not going to leave her alone in the house, are you? That'd be pretty stupid.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 11811/18/2012

Who says I don't post here?

I just happen to work in mysterious ways...

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 11911/18/2012

Hell yes....thank you God....Jesus took the wheel!!!!

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 12011/18/2012

It sounds, OP, like you and your partner know that the sister and kid have to leave your house and take their chaos with them.

You just need to get the courage to do it. It's not easy, especially when it's family. But you'll find it. You'd better if you want a peaceful house for you and your kid again.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 12111/18/2012

[quote]In case this is truly OP... You are not going to leave her alone in the house, are you? That'd be pretty stupid.

Immensely stupid. I'd put the problem up at a cheap motel for the few days that remain until their departure -- and change the fucking locks the minute she's out of the house.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 12211/18/2012

What an




by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 12311/18/2012

Op...I just can't believe you spent another 4000 dollars to get her out. Insane.

YOU need to go to therapy. You are the epitome of a codependent person. You subjected your partner and son to this, and spent a ton of money that should have gone to your family's needs. Instead you moved in your obviously crazy (and, I'm betting, addicted sister) out of some bizarre need to feel like a savior. Honestly and seriously, you need some help. You should never have taken her in, in the first place, and you should have put her out immediately. Instead you're actually using more of your family's resources to help the skank who spit in your face. CLASSIC codependency. You need help before you do it again. Frankly, you owe your partner and your son an apology for subjecting them to this.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 12411/18/2012

Well done, OP. You tried, and you did well by your sister and niece, and now by your own family in getting them to move on.

But if it is not too late, I'd cancel the car transport and flights. Your sister can drive, she is just manipulating you in saying otherwise.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 12511/18/2012

Considering that OP is also r106, is any of this real? Or am I not supposed to ask that?

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 12611/18/2012

R126, I actually bought OP's tale until the post at R117. Now I feel foolish for trying to help a work of fiction.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 12711/18/2012

r127 some of our best posts here have been ESTs.

It's not so much the scenario as it is what is made of it.

I figured it could go either way, but I'm sure people have been in similar enough situations that it was plausible.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 12811/18/2012

You gave excellent advice, though, r84. Surely it has helped someone, even if it wasn't the OP.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 12911/18/2012

Send the abusive asshore ex- $10,000 to pledge his love and take her back. It will be worth it.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 13011/18/2012

[quote] They have decided to check into a hotel for a few days


by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 13111/18/2012

OP, she's not going to leave....

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 13211/19/2012

Op is also that fake post from the sister? Oh brother. Why do we even bother. These Oposters always end up being fake.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 13311/19/2012

"These Oposters always end up being fake."

Of course they are. I don't know why so many people are stupid enough to take the OP's bullshit story seriously. If you're going to reply just say "fuck off, troll!" and let it go at that.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 13411/19/2012

I'm not sure what landlord would accept a tenant without any references or visible means of support. So this idea of "putting Sis in a cheap apartment of her own" doesn't really hold water.

But I guess some of you still live with your mother so you'd have no clue about being on your own other than in your dreams and on Datalounge.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 13511/19/2012

Yeah, r135 is correct. My friend just left her husband. Thankfully she planned ahead, because they wanted her to have a steady job, and several months rent to get an apartment. She had never worked before in her life.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 13611/19/2012

Yo, that really WAS my sister upthread. She sees me on DL often but has never shown any interest. I left my laptop on the end table and she picked it up and started browsing. Just another cunt move by her.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 13711/19/2012

Uh huh. Fuck off troll.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 13811/19/2012

Verbally abuse her until some new sucker agrees to "rescue" her from your abusive home.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 13911/19/2012

[quote]I'm not sure what landlord would accept a tenant without any references or visible means of support. So this idea of "putting Sis in a cheap apartment of her own" doesn't really hold water.

There are various options for short-term housing that can be used in such situations. See, for example, corporate housing, where the assumption is that the corporation is putting you up for a couple of months while you're working on a project. The sister would still be responsible for the long-term housing after the short-term solution expires but that's manageable.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 14011/19/2012

We've had other people living with us twice in the past. And my patience for it is totally and completely gone.

Never again if I have anything to do with it.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 14111/19/2012

Regardless of whether OP is an EST or not, I've been living a similar nightmare for 3 years now. My twin brother (53 years old) divorced his cheating spouse 10 years ago and moved to another city to take a new job (the company he worked for had folded, in addition to all the stress of the divorce mess). Fast forward 7 years, and the new job is being outsourced so he was going to be out of work.

Because he seemed incredibly stressed, I invited him to move back temporarily with my elderly mother and me. He knew this house was too small for 3 people and understood that it was only until he got back on his feet-- a year MAX. The idea was that he would have some security and family around so he could concentrate on finding a job and a place of his own. Prior to his moving back here, we talked at great length about the importance of networking in this small city. He understood that it's the best way to find work here and agreed to do volunteer work in order to meet people and so his resume wouldn't have a huge gap in it. He's naturally shy, and I do a lot of volunteer community/activist work, so offered to introduce him to people I know so he could start the networking process.

Three years later and he's made every excuse in the book why he can't volunteer or find a job. His unemployment ran out a long time ago, but he wasn't contributing his full share when he had it. I offered to help him update his resume, but he won't even show it to me. He has childish tantrums and rages, and has broken things in the house during them. His paranoia and bullying have stressed both my mom and me out. When I've told him he has to get counseling or leave, he refuses. He's said he'll kill himself, or "make us sorry" if we kick him out.

Needless to say, he rarely helps with the housework and accuses me of trying to "take his dignity" away if I tell him to get off his ass and help out. I didn't make much money to begin with, but paying for the extra food, utilities etc, has been sucking me dry. I was willing for us to act as a team and share whatever money and resources I had, but that was predicated on his doing his part to be a responsible adult. He claims he can't find a job because my mom and I have been "mean" to him and destroyed his self-confidence. Not only have I not been mean, if anything, I've been far too understanding and kind.

Needless to say, he hasn't met with anyone for volunteer opportunities. From the beginning, he refused to meet any of my friends or even go over to someone's house for dinner. When I ask him why he won't go out and volunteer he says "You're just trying to get me to do what you want me to do. You just want someone to control." WTF!... all I want is for him to be independent, get a job, and to move the hell out. He's worked a seasonal job for 2 months over the past two summers, but that was only because I got the job for him, and he wanted the money to buy parts for his car, which is in pieces in my garage.

I wish to god my story was an EST. I know my brother has mental issues, but I'm tired of being dragged down with him, and hate the impact it's having on my elderly mom. I also hate him for acting like such a grifter. He's like a stranger now, and was never like this before. Shy and somewhat avoidant, sure, but not a blatant user like this.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 14211/19/2012

If it WAS the sister, wouldn't it show up as OP's post via troll-dar?

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 14311/19/2012

Exhausting Situation Time.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 14411/19/2012

Doormat much?

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 14511/19/2012

R142, hon, you're mentally ill too. You desperately need therapy. You've gone from major codependency to being almost as sick as he is by continuing to allow him to stay. That's what happens to codependents, they get incredibly fucked up. Get some therapy.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 14611/19/2012

R146, while I think there's truth to what you're saying, it's a difficult prospect to put your own sibling out on the street. He has no money, no car, etc. He's told us that he would never go to a shelter, and said he'd kill himself. I don't think he's bluffing. If he did commit suicide, it wouldn't be my fault, but that doesn't make the thought any easier to stomach.

I'm not a martyr, nor do I need his approval. I'm not getting anything out of this situation (like in classic co-dependence). I don't have the urge to be needed. If I'd had any idea that he'd behave this way, I would have never offered to have him move in, period. I agree with you completely that he needs to be booted, but I'm having a difficult time coming to terms with what he'll probably do if I kick him out.

If I could afford it, I'd get some therapy, and agree that I need it. I may not be able to control what he does or how he reacts, but I can control how he's made me feel about myself.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 14711/19/2012

R142, sounds like your brother is on drugs.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 14811/19/2012

R142/R147, that sounds like a very stressful and potentially dangerous situation. If your brother is threatening to harm himself or you, it's WAY past time for some sort of therapeutic intervention. The next time he says he intends to kill himself, call the police. Meanwhile, secure any firearms and other weapons in your house.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 14911/20/2012

R149, R142's brother is not suicidal. He's using suicide threats to control and subdue his brother who he knows won't kick him out as long as he keeps making that threat. It's fairly common for spouses going through a divorce to do the same thing, "if you leave me I'm going to kill myself."

I'd just say, "go ahead, make my day."

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 15011/20/2012

The message of these alarming posts about people being taken advantage of is, clearly, NEVER INVITE A SIBLING TO STAY IN YOUR HOUSE. Not even briefly. If you want to live with a parent in his or her declining years, the better to care for him or her, fine. But no jobless brothers. No divorced sisters. JUST SAY NO! And, incidentally, I don't think it matters whether these tales are EST or not. They may not have happened to the people who have posted here (though I rather think they did), but they certainly have happened to someone.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 15111/20/2012

r142, stop coddling him and just put a roof over his head. Don't invite him to share meals. Buy him rice and beans and oatmeal so he won't starve. Cut off his internet access (he can go to the library). Don't allow him to watch TV with you and your mother. If he doesn't like it he can leave.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 15211/20/2012

Exhausting Sister Troll

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 15311/20/2012

R150, I agree, but there's still that nagging doubt. There's a definite element of manipulation, but I also think he's capable of carrying out the threat if he feels like there's no other option (and he doesn't see options like you or I do). I've seen him do some pretty wild stuff when he's histrionic.

R148, my brother isn't on drugs. He rarely leaves the house, and spends most of his time in his room with the door shut. He has no friends and is hyper-critical of mine, so no chance to get any drugs even if he wanted any. He's actually straight-laced to the point of being somewhat puritanical and moralizing. As an example, in his crazy mind, he's escalated the very occasional pot-smoking I did in my teens and early 20s into me being a "chronic drug user" and claims that I smoked through my 30s as well.

It's very puzzling to me that he has so much invested in making me out to be a bad person. It's not just gross exaggeration of past and present flaws, but also making stuff up out of thin air. I don't get where all this negative energy is coming from, but can only surmise that it's classic deflection and projection (if those are the right terms for it).

I'm certain that he's very depressed, and that's where a lot of his anger and resentment is coming from, but he absolutely refuses to get help or acknowledge that he has a problem. Any discussion involving his behavior always circles back to everything being our (mom and me) fault and if we were just nicer, or more encouraging, or loving etc etc, he'd be fine.

He's had his issues over the years, but nothing like this. It's disturbing to see that my brother-- who I used to really love and respect-- has turned into a passive-aggressive paranoid dependent baby who blames everyone else for his problems. Weird... he was always the stoic responsible kid with good grades, and I was the rebel who skipped school and was always looking for the next big adventure.

Thanks for letting me vent, and for the advice you've given. Even when it's harsh, it's appreciated. Been here since the late 90s and have rarely brought up personal problems. There are some smart kind people posting here.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 15411/20/2012

r154, have you tried to have a heart to heart talk with him? not in the light of "you have to get a job otherwise i'll need to kick you out", which makes him defensive because all he hears is you think he's a bum you need to control, hence he said his self-confidence has destroyed (by you, even if it's just his imagination), but more on the "i've seen you when you were doing great, when things were still ok. i know you can get back there, don't give up on yourself" kinda emotional boost. reminisce about those times he was doing well. i don't know if he's just lazy or he's fallen in to a depression, but if it's the latter, it is pretty hard to get out of and gets worse on its own so a lot of encouragement is needed. tell him what you wrote here, that you love and respect him, but the more withdrawn and angry he is turning into, the more of a stranger he becomes and you don't want to lose a brother especially when it's just the three of you, etc..etc.. something to make him feel others still need him to be part of their life. HTH.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 15511/21/2012

[quote] he was always the stoic responsible kid with good grades

Is it possible that your father sexually abused him?

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 15611/21/2012

R155, we used to have those conversations when he first got here, but haven't in a very long time. I'm afraid that the anger and suspicion has built to such a degree-- now on both sides-- that we've probably gone past that. Whenever I try to broach the subject, he's vehement that the fault lies *entirely* with mom and me. He keeps saying that we weren't welcoming enough the first month he was here. I promise you, we were. Not perfect-- it was a stretch and a strain stuffing an extra person in here-- but we wouldn't have asked him to move in if we didn't want him here. His reaction is part of the hyper-critical thing he does.

R156, I'm convinced that happened and have asked my brother gently if it did. He denies it. Our stepfather molested me (I'm a female) and my brother has shown some pretty classic symptoms. Strange that it would all be blowing up at this later stage of life though. He's completely mistrustful of people, keeps harping on Mom having been a bad mother and not there for him, somewhat homophobic and paranoid about someone thinking he might be gay, gets in rages, harps that we are trying to "emasculate" him, accuses me of being a masculine ball-buster, etc. I wonder if there isn't some element of PTSD in all of this, and perhaps the stress of the divorce (his wife was awful) and losing two jobs in a row hasn't made him have an emotional breakdown.

I've been trying to make an effort to understand what's really going on, so that I could be supportive, but am at the end of my rope with the way he treats us and the house, and the fact that he won't lift a finger to help himself. I'm just not willing to destroy the rest of my life, or Mom's, trying to figure this out. Enabling his anti-social tendencies has only made things worse.

by No good deed goes unpunishedreply 15711/21/2012
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