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Should Male Barber Shops Be Forced To Give Lesbians Male Haircuts?

Faith McGregor stepped into the Terminal Barber Shop on Bay St. for a lunch-hour haircut, requesting a butch-style “businessman,’’ short on the sides, tapered, and trim up top.

Co-owner Omar Mahrouk demurred, as did two other barbers working that day, explaining that his Muslim faith prohibited him from touching a woman who was not a member of his family.

McGregor was displeased, claims to have felt like a second-class citizen, and denounced Mahrouk. “You are sexist,’’ she stated before leaving.

“For me it was just a haircut and started out about me being a woman. Now we’re talking about religion versus gender versus human rights and businesses in Ontario,” said McGregor.

She filed a complaint with the Human Rights Tribunal of Ontario almost immediately, saying she felt like a “second-class citizen.”

Mahrouk’s response to the tribunal, provided through his lawyer David Kolinsky, doesn’t dispute McGregor’s complaint but says being forced to cut a woman’s hair would violate his freedom of religion.

“We live for our values. We are people who have values and we hold on to it. I am not going to change what the faith has stated to us to do. This is not extreme — this is just a basic value that we follow,” said Karim Saaden, co-owner of the Terminal Barber Shop.

He noted that it was a matter of adherence to faith, not a gender issue.

“In our faith, for instance, I can cut my mother’s hair, I can cut my sister’s hair, I can cut my wife’s hair, my daughter’s hair,” said Saaden.

The barbershop suggested a solution to McGregor toward the end of August, offering her a haircut from a barber willing to do so.

“It’s the principle of the matter so I turned down their lawyer’s offer and said, ‘No, I wish to continue with the tribunal,’ because this needs to be discussed and now it’s bigger than what occurred with me that one day, in one afternoon,” said McGregor.

She is asking the tribunal to force Terminal Barber Shop to offer its men’s haircuts to both genders, and suggests in her application that the shop post a sign indicating it serves both men and women. She is not seeking money.

So who do you side with? The Lesbian or the Male Barber?

by Anonymousreply 23712/04/2013

The barber, I think you should respect other people's religious views of they are not trying to attack you and he had another barber offer her a haircut.

by Anonymousreply 111/16/2012

Allah hates lesbian haircuts.

by Anonymousreply 211/16/2012

The Lesbian. Our country, Our rules.

by Anonymousreply 311/16/2012

I'm a Lesbian who sides with the barber.

The barber was gentleman enough to offer one of my fellow Lesbians a haircut from another barber who did not share his faith. If he did not do that, my opinion would be far different, and I would side with my fellow Lesbian.

That's that.

by Anonymousreply 411/16/2012

commentary from The Toronto Star

This can hardly be described as a major infringement on her human rights. She is being blatantly pedantic and quite insufferable, clearly spoiling for a fight that would pit religion against gender. It’s a vain argument to pick in this instance, with gusts to narcissism.

I’m well aware that ideological clashes — my rights trump your rights — can have ghastly consequences. I’m conflicted about pools where Muslim girls can swim during certain hours with no males present, dismayed at segregation by gender in some school cafeterias, and alarmed by creeping sharia law promoted as an article of faith.

But let’s get a grip here. It’s a frigging haircut, for the love of God. McGregor, however, will clearly be appeased only by compelling Mahrouk and his staff to contravene their religious beliefs, bending to her will, making her values paramount.

She has rejected an amply fair compromise offered by Mahrouk — a haircut at the Terminal Barber Shop 2, provided by an employee willing to do it. In response to that suggestion from Mahrouk’s lawyer, McGregor wrote: “I have reviewed your offer and I decline it. I wish for the HRTO to rule on my case as it is written in my application.’’

What she seeks in that application is this: “I want the shop to be cited and forced to give haircuts in the fashion they provide (barbershop style) to any woman or man that asks for one.’’

McGregor is not looking for money. Presumably she’s looking to make a point, concurrent with her 15 minutes of fame. The words compromise and reasonable accommodation don’t exist in her vocabulary.

She is one righteous woman. That is her belief system: dogmatic, pious and stiff-necked.

by Anonymousreply 511/16/2012

The Lesbian and the Male Barber sounds like an excellent Movie of the Week.

by Anonymousreply 611/16/2012

This is nonsense. If he doesn't want to cut her hair he shouldn't have to.

by Anonymousreply 711/16/2012

Why does she claim he was sexist? If you at look at one way, it was guy vs guy

by Anonymousreply 811/16/2012

Typical.

by Anonymousreply 911/16/2012

I'd love to know what Tabatha Coffey thinks?

by Anonymousreply 1011/16/2012

An easy solution would be that gloves be worn when cutting anyone's hair and there is then no touch. By extension, would it be OK if he was working in a casualty ward and she had been an emergency patient. Interestingly, there was a case in the UK where someone refused to treat patients with AIDS if they were gay men. Her case was upheld.

The barber is providing a public service.I wonder what his opinion would be if he went to a barbers and was refused a haircut because the barbers religion forbade them from touching a Muslim.

by Anonymousreply 1111/16/2012

I prefer people and businesses to be upfront about their bigotry, homophobia, racism, misogony, etc. so I can make an informed decision about where to spend my money.

This isn't about boycotting establishments. It's about your own dignity and your power you have thanks to the money in your wallet.

by Anonymousreply 1211/16/2012

If he is open to business with the public, then he should understand that means ALL the public, even those whose religion or views he doesn't share. If we stand by the barber,then what is to stop someone from refusing to offer service to members of another race? Serving the public means just that. The barber should lose his license to cut hair.

by Anonymousreply 1411/16/2012

[quote]She is one righteous woman. That is her belief system: dogmatic, pious and stiff-necked.

Mahrouk is a he, not a she.

by Anonymousreply 1511/16/2012

If you're going to run a business, don't bring your hang-ups into it.

by Anonymousreply 1611/16/2012

She has stated her boundaries.

by Anonymousreply 1711/16/2012

EVERYBODY

He offered her another Barber to cut her hair in his shop, but she refused.

She wants to make a point.

by Anonymousreply 1811/16/2012

Cutting mother's hair.

MARY!

by Anonymousreply 1911/16/2012

Someone's invitation to MichFest will be pulled.

by Anonymousreply 2011/16/2012

In Islamic law, gay men (mukhannath) are allowed to see women unveiled, touch them and live with them in the harem (women's quarters) because they do not subject women to the male gaze. So would the same not apply to butch lesbians being allowed to interact freely with men?

by Anonymousreply 2111/16/2012

R14 Bravo!

He opened his business and he cannot impose his religious views on others. This is no different than any other act of assholery by religious fanatics.

by Anonymousreply 2311/16/2012

R21 = Laura Mulvey.

by Anonymousreply 2411/16/2012

[quote]Co-owner Omar Mahrouk demurred, as did two other barbers working that day, explaining that his Muslim faith prohibited him from touching a woman who was not a member of his family.

Too bad. Maybe her faith REQUIRED her to get her hair cut by a Muslim.

I'm a far-left liberal, but I think it's ridiculous that Canadians and Americans are expected to obey laws in Saudi Arabia, etc., but Muslims are not over here.

by Anonymousreply 2511/16/2012

If you like Middle Eastern ways then stay in the Middle East. Many of us would like that.

I doubt this woman will be successful with her complaint because Western society has bent over backward for Middle Eastern people, partly because of the violence they could produce. I find this complaint ironic because Muslim adherents have used lawsuits to push their manners onto Western society.

by Anonymousreply 2611/16/2012

Just to play Devil's advocate what about high end women's salons who don't do men's hair?

What if a guy came in saying he wanted a pixie cut, and the salon said we are women only?

by Anonymousreply 2711/16/2012

[quote][R18], she absolutely should make the point. What if someone made an obvious display in the front of a store about not serving a gay person before running around to find someone who CAN serve them?

This is DL, full of sexist white gay guys. 'Gurl, you in danger'.

by Anonymousreply 2811/16/2012

Ms McGregor has stated her boundaries.

by Anonymousreply 2911/16/2012

Okay, I want to change my vote. I'm with the lesbian now.

by Anonymousreply 3011/16/2012

Sean Gibson, of the Ontario Barber Association (OBA), wrote a letter in defence of Mahrouk explaining why the distinction between “barber” and “hairstylist” justifies Mahrouk's discrimination against women.

Gibson says barbers should have the autonomy to decide because barber shops have traditionally been male-only spaces.

“In certain countries, men just service other men for religious reasons. It’s not that they don’t want to service women, but because of their religious beliefs they can only cut the hair of other men,” he explains. “While that may seem archaic, it’s understood. The history goes back to men-only bathhouses in ancient Greece. That’s where barber shops started. They were only places for men.”

Still, Gibson says Mahrouk did not intend to discriminate in a malicious or disrespectful way, but “perception is everything.”

“He was unable to service her because of his religious beliefs. So it’s a discussion of what’s more important: obliterating his religious beliefs or serving this young lady? Denying his rights or denying her rights.”

“She can still get service, maybe not from this specific place, but I’m sure one of our [OBA] members would be glad to cut her hair,” he adds.

by Anonymousreply 3111/16/2012

Lord knows I service men religiously!

by Anonymousreply 3211/16/2012

[quote] He offered her another Barber to cut her hair in his shop, but she refused.

He offered it two months later. He needs to have a better plan in place for accommodating women customers if he's going to run a public business.

And for those of you who think he should be able to impose his religious views on others in the public square, think about pharmacists who won't fill your prescriptions, proprietors who won't rent you a room at their B&B, doctors who won't treat your emergency, cab drivers who won't pick you up, etc., because YOU conflict with their religious beliefs.

by Anonymousreply 3311/16/2012

I say no, OP!

Lesbians should NOT be forced to have male haircuts.

by Anonymousreply 3411/16/2012

Perhaps Gibson would support communities that support segregation. Plenty of fundamentalists would cite their religion as supporting their racism.

by Anonymousreply 3511/16/2012

[quote]And for those of you who think he should be able to impose his religious views on others in the public square, think about pharmacists who won't fill your prescriptions, proprietors who won't rent you a room at their B&B, doctors who won't treat your emergency, cab drivers who won't pick you up, etc., because YOU conflict with their religious beliefs.

Very well stated. We had a local issue with a cabbie that refused to ride a tourist from the airport because she had a service dog.

by Anonymousreply 3611/16/2012

Chicago Male Salon refuses to cut Lesbian's hair as well you know.

by Anonymousreply 3711/16/2012

[quote] He needs to have a better plan in place for accommodating women customers if he's going to run a public business.

I agree R33

Maybe this will be an eye-opener for him to hire someone to work with the female clients, since he can't do it.

by Anonymousreply 3811/16/2012

Uh, I don't side with either.

It's not a great idea to run a business that "must" discriminate based on anything. If he had had a suitable employee READILY available whenever possible, then I wouldn't find him so dumb.

And the woman seems like she may be overreacting.

by Anonymousreply 3911/16/2012

Why would a woman go to a barber shop in the first place?

by Anonymousreply 4011/16/2012

R40 the lesbian wanted a male haircut

by Anonymousreply 4111/16/2012

She should do something about her eyebrows, too.

by Anonymousreply 4211/16/2012

I remember being in Montreal and being surprised at a hair salon with a big sign that said, "Lesbian Hair Cuts." I hadn't realized it was a separate style. I wonder if I as a man could have requested a lesbian cut.

by Anonymousreply 4311/16/2012

Where did you see that, R43? The village or some other part of town?

by Anonymousreply 4511/16/2012

Lesbian Drama

by Anonymousreply 4611/16/2012

While this isn't exactly a huge deal, the lez has my support here. The basic question is whether you can deny service based on gender.

There have been cases, I vaguely recall, where muslim doctors or EMTs in Canada or the UK or US have denied care to the opposite gender. Enough of that bullshit.

As much as the lesbinas and the fraus irk me at times in my view, discrimination against women is the number one global human rights issue, although mainly in asian and muslim countries. All you have to do is look at the gender imbalance in these countries which shows that hundreds of thousands if not millions of pre-born and infant females are being aborted and killed.

by Anonymousreply 4711/16/2012

[quote] All you have to do is look at the gender imbalance in these countries which shows that hundreds of thousands if not millions of pre-born and infant females are being aborted and killed.

That is a fact of life in China.

by Anonymousreply 4811/16/2012

R4 it sounds like the offer was after the compliant was filed. So I don't think it was out of the goodness of his heart.

by Anonymousreply 5011/16/2012

Believe it or not, a similar thing happened to me at a small-town Sport Clips. Which was full of white hairstylists, mind you, and all I wanted was a trim.

I only went in because it was the closest salon to the relatives I was visiting (in the middle of nowhere). The front desk woman laughed nervously and said, "Well...we don't normally cut women's hair. But I can see if anyone will do it. You might have to wait a few days."

Franchises like Sport Clips should at least be able to price and perform TRIMS for women. Granted, they all have different owners, and that one might just be crazy.

by Anonymousreply 5111/16/2012

There's a salon up the street from me that charges $10 for men's haircuts and $16 for women's. Even though I have a short "male" haircut that takes approx. 10 minutes to give, they insist on charging me $16.

Charges should be by the service -- more for long hair, more for a shampoo, blow-dry, etc.

This kind of discrimination is much more common that you guys think, and it has nothing to do with religion.

by Anonymousreply 5411/16/2012

[quote]s much as the lesbinas and the fraus irk me at times in my view, discrimination against women is the number one global human rights issue

Dyke haircuts are human rights issue?

I guess all the important problems have been solved already.

by Anonymousreply 5511/16/2012

Nobody should be "forced" to do anything.

That's all government is. FORCE.

by Anonymousreply 5611/16/2012

r11, wearing gloves wouldn't change the Islamic law. Muslim cashiers here have refused to touch ham wrapped in plastic.

by Anonymousreply 5711/16/2012

R45, it was walking back from The Plateau to The Village. I remember the sign was in English and French. And I think they were $8.

by Anonymousreply 5811/16/2012

If you take the side of the barber, you ought to think about how else Islamic faith has been used to justify discrimination in other cases. In Minneapolis-St. Paul, Muslin taxi cab drivers refused to drive passenegers if they were of the same sex and kissed one another, saying their faith prohibited accommodating same-sex romantic relationshops. At first the Minneapolis City Council allowed this, but when enough gay men pointed out they were using the excuse of multiculturalism to allow discrimination against gay people, they backed off.

The point of liberalism is not to tolerate other people's intolerance.

by Anonymousreply 5911/16/2012

hey rachel at R54, do "unisex" salons still exist? They were all over the place in the 70s. I ended up going back to the old style barber because the unisex places were charging men the same as women for what was, in my case, a lot less work. The barber was cheaper.

My barber charges by the cut and I've seen women clients get charged the same price I do (20$ plus tip for a simple cut). 300 ft. away, a women's salon would charge me over 30$ for the same thing. Look around a bit. You might find the right place.

by Anonymousreply 6011/16/2012

R43 - 8 bucks!??? Fuck if I can get it cheaper than double that in NDG. It would even be worth the trip with full bus fare both ways.

by Anonymousreply 6111/16/2012

I'll pull out the old photo and see if it was $8. It was in 2008 by the way so allow for some inflation.

Interesting that you mentioned NDG. We are planning to retire in Montreal in a few years and the two areas that we're looking at are The Plateau and NDG.

by Anonymousreply 6311/16/2012

Okay....ignore me. I just looked at the photo. It was $15 on a plywood sign.

by Anonymousreply 6411/16/2012

[quote]Should Male Barber Shops Be Forced To Give Lesbians Male Haircuts?

It has nothing to do with that. The question is actually more along the lines of: should one person stating their religion prohibits them providing a service to certain people/ groups in society be acceptable, and does that person represent their religion entirely.

by Anonymousreply 6511/16/2012

That makes more sense R64.

As for moving here, don't go too far east in the Plateau, and definitely don't go too far west in NDG. If you are looking for older condo conversions, they tend to be much bigger in NDG, but NDG is a lot more Anglo and straight, and can be a bit of a bore, and is farther away from the Village.

And the Metro sort of stops at the east end of NDG without actually penetrating it.

by Anonymousreply 6611/16/2012

You have to learn to pick your battles. It's a haircut. Put it in perspective. There are a million barbershops. And salons know how to cut hair.

I don't agree with what the guy did, but it wasn't because she was a lesbian. And while it seems ridiculous, I would not be surprised if it was the first women he's encountered in his shop. How many men get their hair cut by women, and vice versa? The guys I know who've gone to salons still get their hair cut by men.

And the guy was nice enough to at least try and make amends, going out of his way to offer her someone to do it. The woman refused. Her choice, but let's not pretend that he's some nasty villian.

She made her complaint. Move on. It's not Rosa Parks sitting in the bus.

by Anonymousreply 6711/16/2012

This sitch isn't much different than if the barber refused to give a gay male a haircut because homosexuality is a sin. Think on it, bitches.

by Anonymousreply 6811/16/2012

[quote]I don't agree with what the guy did, but it wasn't because she was a lesbian.

It wasn't stated or implied that it was because she is a lesbian.

by Anonymousreply 6911/16/2012

R69 Did you read the title of the thread?

by Anonymousreply 7011/16/2012

Constitutionally his freedom to practise his religion is guaranteed to him. The Canadian Constitution addresses equality only insofar as it says the protections of the Constitution apply equally to men and women.

The Ontario Human Rights Code is a provincial law that gives everybody equal rights and opportunities without discrimination across a range of areas, including services. The Code also allows for allows unequal treatment, providing certain defences and exemptions to discrimination.

So even if she prevails before the Human Rights Tribunal, she could lose if he appeals to the Supreme Court, which is entirely possible. His refusal appears to be on the basis of his religion. She is not a relation, so his religious beliefs do not allow him to cut her hair.

Practically speaking, there are tons of barber shops where she could get all the ugly haircuts she likes.

by Anonymousreply 7111/16/2012

[quote]The barbershop suggested a solution to McGregor toward the end of August, offering her a haircut from a barber willing to do so.

r18, it's not that clear from the article if that's the case.

Does it mean they have some odd guy come in they know who is not as observant, or does it mean what you state, i.e., they employ less observant men who would do it.

She's trying to force her own beliefs on others without regard to their feelings.

by Anonymousreply 7211/16/2012

So many racist idiots in here. The world is full of beauty and fitness business that are open only to women or only to men, barber shops are just one of the oldest. If something is not for your gender, you'll have to go somewhere else. (Guess what, there are even more beauty hairdressers who take any customer.) This is not discrimination, don't be fucking ridiculous.

Attacking this man for harmlessly running a barber shop for men? That is hate and intolerance.

by Anonymousreply 7411/16/2012

The headline you posted was off, OP. This isn't about "male barber shops," which I've never heard of before in the first place. And "male haircuts," is also weird. What the fuck is a "male haircut?" And those of you posting that she may as well be a guy, uh, no. She's a biological female who is biologically oriented toward having sex with other females. I am constantly astounded at the ignorance in the gay community over trans issues, it's just like heteros in that you have a decent brain that could reason and understand, but you flat out refuse to. Generally if someone is misunderstanding you, it's because they *don't want* to understand you.

That housekeeping issue out of the way, I think this is a sticky one because it is well known that Muslim men are not allowed to touch women outside of their own family, unless you are completely ignorant and have lived your life without ever once turning on the news, meeting a Muslim, or reading a newspaper, which since this woman lives in a metropolitan area, is highly unlikely. That leaves the option that she more than likely knew exactly what she was doing and set this whole issue up to get attention.

I say, let's see what the judge decides, I tend to side with the Muslim guy. Just because I don't agree with someone's religious convictions and rules, doesn't mean I can't respect them and give them the respect they deserve as a human being to make their own choices.

by Anonymousreply 7511/16/2012

Some of you people would do well at Free Republic.

by Anonymousreply 7811/16/2012

Get over it, Lezzie Borden. Quit with the victimhood already. It's a haircut, not an international incident. But, hey, you got your 15 minutes out of it, didn't you?

by Anonymousreply 7911/16/2012

[quote] She may have thought she lived in Canada and never given a second thought to the possibility she'd be treated differently because she's a woman.

As a Canadian, I always knew that 'rights and freedoms' were fluid because the country embraced inclusion.

Everything wasn't always a "look up the Charter" solution because fairness meant balancing human rights when they conflicted.

Yes, LGBTs are protected, but that doesn't mean they have absolute rights that supersede another protected group (freedom of religion).

by Anonymousreply 8011/17/2012

Michfest will be buzzing over the cut our syster has received. Or not received. We will clasp hands and rage against the toweled persyn!

by Anonymousreply 8111/17/2012

I wonder if she is OK with requiring Curves to admit male members?

by Anonymousreply 8211/17/2012

R82 Well, that's a little different. First of all, because Curves' advertising makes it rather clear that it was designed for women who want solidarity of womanhood. As in, a place where they can avoid the common cultural pressures of gymming, including those that involve men. As far as we know, this shop didn't have a window sign that said "Hair Retreat Just for Men," or similar.

by Anonymousreply 8311/17/2012

[quote] Michfest will be buzzing over the cut our syster has received. Or not received. We will clasp hands and rage against the toweled persyn!

Actually R81, many Michfest attendees would be horrified by a male hairdresser touching them with his manly hands!

by Anonymousreply 8511/17/2012

R75 read R31

by Anonymousreply 8711/17/2012

btw there are TONS of places in Toronto offering an $8.00 haircut, some as low as $7.00!

by Anonymousreply 8811/17/2012

Thanks R66. Too far east into The Plateau. Isn't that going to be the area that borders The Village including Park Le Fontaine?

I'm attracted to the Monkland Village area of NDG.

by Anonymousreply 9111/17/2012

R71, faith doesn't trump gender in the Ccharter. There is no hierarchy of rights. That said, it is cases like this why the HRC has lost popular support. People see it as a waste of money today.

by Anonymousreply 9211/17/2012

another typical crazy lesbian standing up for her rights. strangle her and throw her ass into the tar pits. enough!

by Anonymousreply 9311/17/2012

Why is this about her being a lesbian and getting a butch cut. If Julia Roberts walked in and ask for a trim, he wouldn't do it either. They can't touch women that aren't their family period.

by Anonymousreply 9411/17/2012

Ooh, angry lesbian! Just wait til she backs up her Uhaul after she shuts him down.

by Anonymousreply 9511/17/2012

Remember the cases of several bake stores refusing to bake cakes to same-sex couples.

At least this barber offered to bring in another barber to cut her hair at his store.

Yes it was two months later, after he received the complaint. But at least he is offering an olive branch.

by Anonymousreply 9611/17/2012

R91, I would avoid going too far east of Papineau. As for NDG, yes, Monkland Village is probably the most desirable area

by Anonymousreply 9811/17/2012

r30 = Willard Romney.

by Anonymousreply 9911/17/2012

The place in Montreal is called Lesbian Haircuts for Everyone. It's run out of a bike shop, and obviously it's humorous. Though every hipster in Montreal gets their hair cut there, regardless of gender or sexual orientation!

by Anonymousreply 10211/17/2012

R100 You're wrong. And actually, not all Curves deny men, though it's not their favorite thing. In fact, It could be that most of them just strongly discourage male applicants. And they're right to do that.

Since this incident involves a question of culture, realize that this is the way our CULTURE has gone for years: health clubs and clubs in general, have segregated men and women; in the earliest form, it was all exclusivity for men. It's also part of our culture that some men (not all, but some) go near working-out women for creepy reasons and try to get to "know" them...not so much the other way around. It doesn't matter if the women there are conventionally unattractive. Due to the way we've evolved in general, you could go a step further and suggest that a gym just for women is a form of affirmative action. These days, hair joints are most often expected to be a unisex service, and it's kind of impossible to tell that no one will take your money until you go in, so the advertising does matter. Even so, she was asking for a "male" haircut, so there was no way for her to know that the person inside just doesn't want to touch women. At any rate, a health facility might be the worst analogy for this situation.

by Anonymousreply 10311/17/2012

[quote] The only time I see DLers defending religious beliefs is when it comes to gender discrimination.

That's where the action is in terms of a conflict between civil values/rights and religion. 90% of the time it's about the role of women in society.

by Anonymousreply 10411/17/2012

[quote]As far as we know, this shop didn't have a window sign that said "Hair Retreat Just for Men," or similar.

I'm pretty sure it did. All the Muslim male barber shops here in my town have signs that say "for men" or something. I never felt provoked by it in the slightest. Why would I want to annoy them in their space when there's a way more hairdressers fighting for my attention? The Muslim guys are all sweet as honey to me when I shop in their grocery stores btw, really friendly and helpful. There is no clash of cultures if you don't insist to be a fucking asshole about it for no reason.

- atheist woman who works out in a female only gym and would kick any dick's ass who insisted on intruding where he is not wanted just to make a ridiculous point.

by Anonymousreply 10511/17/2012

[quote]If instead of lesbian woman it was a black man, and the barber would refuse him a haircut, because according to his religion he can't touch black people, nobody would defend the barber, right?

Show us a religion that forbids its followers to touch black people and maybe we'll discuss the matter.

by Anonymousreply 10611/17/2012

[quote]and it's kind of impossible to tell that no one will take your money until you go in, so the advertising does matter.

The advertizing for male barber shops is clear as the day.

by Anonymousreply 10811/17/2012

This is why I cut my own hair and have my own workout equipment in my basement.

by Anonymousreply 10911/17/2012

So should we make Chik-fil-A open on Sundays? Their reason for closing is the Christian Sabbath (ignore all the other issues we have with them). If I were an aetheist, could I claim this offended my sensibilities, even tho Burger King, McDonalds and Wendy's are right across the street?

Should Catholic hospitals be forced to perform abortions if the life of the mother is not in danger?

Lots of businesses get religious 'get out of jail free' cards, stop picking on Muslims.

by Anonymousreply 11011/17/2012

I've seen many posts on this thread saying Muslims should go back to their country if they want to abide by their religion, so there is a bigoted section in this.

And as for Chick-fil-A,if the bible said "it's OK to work on Sundays if it's to feed men, not women" they would do that.

The point is,these businesses restrict what they do it for religious reasons.

If you tell one to leave religion out of their business decisions, you have to tell them all...

by Anonymousreply 11211/17/2012

R103 They have no right to discriminate or even "Strongly discourage" against anyone. And you can make the same cultural arguments for Barbershops and Salons.

What about a gay man who wants to go there because he feels uncomfortable with the stigma of the "Straight" gym? Or he feels more comfortable with women? Is it Curves right to strongly discourage his acceptance because they favor women? It's no different.

You can't pick and choose who can discrimate and who can't.

by Anonymousreply 11311/17/2012

[quote] What about a gay man who wants to go there because he feels uncomfortable with the stigma of the "Straight" gym? Or he feels more comfortable with women? Is it Curves right to strongly discourage his acceptance because they favor women? It's no different.

Did this actually happen?

by Anonymousreply 11411/17/2012

[quote] You can't pick and choose who can discrimate and who can't.

Except that some of this, as R110 has pointed out, is about tolerance and courtesy, not about discrimination.

I think that the woman who wanted the haircut is being totally obnoxious.

by Anonymousreply 11511/17/2012

I think this is one of the most misleading thread titles in Datalounge history.

by Anonymousreply 11611/17/2012

He has the right to beleive what he wants. The lesbian can go to any other barber.

by Anonymousreply 11711/17/2012

What if the barber believes he has the right to cut your head off if you reveal you're gay during the haircut?

by Anonymousreply 11811/17/2012

Hottest.porn.concept.ever.

by Anonymousreply 11911/17/2012

"What if the barber believes he has the right to cut your head off if you reveal you're gay during the haircut?"

Then that would be a crime rather than discrimination, and all but the most suicidal gays would stop frequenting that barber.

by Anonymousreply 12011/17/2012

R103, A women's social gym discouraging men from joining? In our culture, YES. It is wise of them discourage.

By discourage, I mean "let them know EXACTLY what they'd be getting, and all the realistic awkwardness that could happen for everyone." And, quite frankly, any man who is still eager to join after the pitch probably has shifty intentions. Imagine what you would think if a straight woman longed to attend a men's health club or bath house even after actually experiencing one.

by Anonymousreply 12111/17/2012

OP, what are you suggesting? That religious Muslims should not be able to make a living as a barber? What about religious Jews who are also not allowed to touch women they are not married to? Is that really what you are suggesting?

by Anonymousreply 12211/17/2012

He can enforce his religious rules on his own business. It's just stupid of him to do so, from a business perspective.

Perhaps he was rather abrasive in the way he handled it, and that's why the woman was so insulted.

by Anonymousreply 12311/17/2012

[quote]What about religious Jews who are also not allowed to touch women they are not married to?

Lol! Who ever heard of a jewish barber?!

by Anonymousreply 12411/17/2012

Ahem!

by Anonymousreply 12511/17/2012

"And, quite frankly, any man who is still eager to join after the pitch probably has shifty intentions."

Any man? So you're automatically assuming what every man's intentions are right off the bat? And you're stereotyping. That's no better than someone prohibiting a gay man who wants to join a all male gym simply because they're assuming the gay man to flirt with the clientele.

"Imagine what you would think if a straight woman longed to attend a men's health club or bath house even after actually experiencing one."

You could imagine all you want. I'm sure you'd be right some of the time. But if you discriminate against someone whose intentions aren't the ones you're choosing to base your decisions on, you only have yourself to blame when you get hit with a lawsuit for discrimination.

There could be a million reasons as to why the woman wants to join the bathhouse or gay man's health club. It would be wrong to assume the negative and use it to bar a certain segment of the population based on your own opinion.

You can't sterotype for your own benefit, yet when other people do it, say it's wrong. It doesn't work that way.

by Anonymousreply 12611/17/2012

R126, If you take the cultural dominance angle, it does work that way. For fitness facilities, at least. And if you're talking business, they can't afford to be wrong, for everyone's benefit. Even if for a man's best interest, due to rejection he might face by women who don't want the presence of men. And since when MUST a man work out with only women in order to work out? Meanwhile, women wanting to be in the company of women is much more understandable. Among other things, there's a reason why colleges started putting locks on female dorm bathrooms, but oftentimes not the male bathrooms. In my opinion, it would be just as "insulting" to say, "okay, we'll let you in without a second thought, but ONLY because you're gay" as to turn someone away because they're gay. Because someone else's sexuality is no business of anyone else.

by Anonymousreply 12711/17/2012

[quote]Imagine what you would think if a straight woman longed to attend a men's health club or bath house even after actually experiencing one

A barber provides haircuts. No specific gender, race, sexuality mentioned.

If a men's health club or bath house was as suggested a matter of health or bathing then why wouldn't a woman be welcome and why should it be specifically for men. Of course, you mean somewhere to have gay sex but present it as something else.

by Anonymousreply 12811/17/2012

"Lol! Who ever heard of a jewish barber?!"

Vidal Sassoon, for one.

And don't you think there are Jewish barbers in Jewish neighborhoods and in Israel (as there no doubt are in other places as well)? Or are you harboring under the delusion that all Jews are in white collar professions?

by Anonymousreply 12911/17/2012

"she absolutely should make the point. What if someone made an obvious display in the front of a store about not serving a gay person before running around to find someone who CAN serve them?"

Fact: some very religious male barbers, Jews and Muslims for instance, are not allowed to touch members of the opposite sex.

Fact: this man did not refuse to cut this woman's hair because she's gay, but because she's a woman.

Fact: Roman Catholic churches do not ordain women as priests or men as nuns.

Fact: While we don't like sex discrimination in any form, most of us growing up in this culture except the Roman Catholic Church's sex discrimination as simply a fact.

We should extend the same tolerance to a Muslim barber as we extend to the Roman Catholic church.

by Anonymousreply 13011/17/2012

[quote]Co-owner Omar Mahrouk... explaining that his Muslim faith prohibited him from touching a woman who was not a member of his family.

[quote]McGregor was displeased, claims to have felt like a second-class citizen

He 'explained', she 'claimed'. What a biased crock. He *claimed* his faith prohibited him, yet plenty with a Muslim faith would disagree. He made a claim, but it is presented as fact.

by Anonymousreply 13111/17/2012

I'm surprised there hasn't been more calls by women to demand entrance into gay bathhouses and saunas.

by Anonymousreply 13211/17/2012

[quote]A barber provides haircuts. No specific gender, race, sexuality mentioned.

If a men's health club or bath house was as suggested a matter of health or bathing then why wouldn't a woman be welcome and why should it be specifically for men. Of course, you mean somewhere to have gay sex but present it as something else.

I don't mean that--you can even assume that nothing is done there except for health and bathing. As for why a woman wouldn't be welcome, you tell me. Or, I'll give you a hint: it's the way our culture is. And to change it now would traumatize people and cause problems well into the future (be it ever successful).

by Anonymousreply 13311/17/2012

[quote] I'm surprised there hasn't been more calls by women to demand entrance into gay bathhouses and saunas.

bachelorette parties

by Anonymousreply 13411/17/2012

[quote] Perhaps he was rather abrasive in the way he handled it, and that's why the woman was so insulted.

Oh, that explains it. For I'm sure that she would NEVER be abrasive!

by Anonymousreply 13511/17/2012

r131, that's a totally false comparison.

Muslims would not disagree that some members of the faith hold this belief. It is a common one, referenced in the Qu'ran.

They would disagree with whether one had to do this to be Muslim.

It's just a different level of belief, like the degrees of Judaism.

The woman's feelings, on the other hand, are personal to her and totally subjective.

by Anonymousreply 13611/17/2012

Oh come on, R135. That would be a legitimate explanation. While he may have his rights, he might not have ass-covering customer service skills for all types of personalities.

by Anonymousreply 13711/17/2012

So is the barbers interpretation of his religion, R136. I suppose if a person stated that their religion prohibited them from touching a black person or a gay man then that would be equally justifiable?

by Anonymousreply 13811/17/2012

[quote] When you operate a facility in the public square of a nontheistic country, though, you need to treat all citizens equally.

I get it! So the war veteran with one leg has to queue with everyone else.

by Anonymousreply 14011/17/2012

Again the Barber did extend an Olive branch to the Lesbian, but she refused because she wants to take this to a tribunal.

by Anonymousreply 14111/17/2012

Opinion piece from a Toronto Newspaper on this issue.

So a lesbian walks into a Muslim barbershop, and asks for a “businessmen’s haircut”.

It sounds like the beginning of a joke, but it really happened, and now a government agency called the Human Rights Tribunal of Ontario will hear her complaint.

Faith McGregor is the lesbian who doesn’t like the girly cuts that they do at a salon. She wants the boy’s hairdo.

Omar Mahrouk is the owner of the Terminal Barber Shop in Toronto. He follows Shariah law, so he thinks women have cooties. As Mahrouk and the other barbers there say, they don’t believe in touching women other than their own wives.

But that’s what multiculturalism and unlimited immigration from illiberal countries means. A central pillar of many immigrant cultures is the second-class citizenship of women and gays.

So if we now believe in multiculturalism, and that our Canadian culture of tolerance isn’t any better than the Shariah culture of sex crimes and gender apartheid, who are we to complain when Omar Mahrouk takes us up on our promise that he can continue to practise his culture — lesbian haircuts be damned?

He’s not the one who passed the Multiculturalism Act, and invited in hundreds of thousands of immigrants with medieval attitudes towards women and gays and Jews, etc. We did.

Mahrouk’s view is illiberal. But in Canada we believe in property rights and freedom of association — and in this case, freedom of religion, too.

But McGregor ran to the Human Rights Tribunal and demanded that Mahrouk give her a haircut.

In the past, human rights commissions have been a great ally to gay activists. Because, traditionally, gay activists have complained against Christians. And white Christians are the one ethnic identity group that human rights commissions don’t value, and that multiculturalism doesn’t include.

In recent years, Canadian human rights commissions have weighed a complaint about a women’s-only health club that refused a pre-operative transsexual male who wanted to change in the locker rooms.

They’ve ordered bed and breakfasts owned by Christian families to take in gay couples. They’ve censored pastors and priests who have criticized gay marriage. Gays win, because it’s a test of who is most outraged and offended.

But in the case of the Muslim barbers, the gay activists have met their match. If the test is who can be the most offended or most politically correct, a lesbian’s just not going to cut it.

Oh, McGregor is politically correct. But just not politically correct enough. It’s like poker.

A white, Christian male has the lowest hand — it’s like he’s got just one high card, maybe an ace. So almost everyone trumps him.

A white woman is just a bit higher — like a pair of twos. Enough to beat a white man, but not much more.

A gay man is like having two pairs in poker.

A gay woman — a lesbian like McGregor — is like having three of a kind.

A black lesbian is a full house — pretty tough to beat.

Unless she’s also in a wheelchair, which means she’s pretty much a straight flush.

The only person who could trump that would be a royal flush. If the late Sammy Davis Jr. — who was black, Jewish and half-blind — were to convert to Islam and discover he was 1/64th Aboriginal.

So which is a better hand: A lesbian who wants a haircut or a Muslim who doesn’t want to give it to her?

I’m betting on Mahrouk. And I predict that Muslim activists — not quiet barbers like Mahrouk, but professional Muslim busybodies — will start using human rights commissions more and more to push their way into places where they have no legal right, but where the human rights commissions are more than happy to engineer things for them, if they complain loud enough.

If I were a gay activist, I’d probably want to declare victory and shut down these human rights commissions right now.

In five years time, it won’t be gay activists forcing themselves into Christian B&Bs. It’ll be Muslim activists vetoing the gay pride parade.

by Anonymousreply 14311/17/2012

[quote] He follows Shariah law, so he thinks women have cooties.

Sounds like an unbiased opinion piece!

by Anonymousreply 14511/17/2012

[quote]The barbershop suggested a solution to McGregor toward the end of August, offering her a haircut from a barber willing to do so.

Wait, she turned down a haircut even after they offered a haircut from another barber?

She's crazy. They offered to accommodate her and she's trying to force the original guy to touch her. So wrong. Justice is not forcing people to touch you when they don't want to.

by Anonymousreply 14611/17/2012

But it sounds like she would've had to wait, yeah? I mean, I don't doubt that she just made up her mind to make a fuss about it, but I wouldn't say that it was necessarily a practical offer on the barber's part (thereby not being an issue of her trying to force him to touch her).

by Anonymousreply 14711/18/2012

[quote]They offered to accommodate her and she's trying to force the original guy to touch her.

No, I think her point is that a customer shouldn't have to wait two months to be accommodated, and only then because a complaint was filed.

by Anonymousreply 14811/18/2012

[quote]No, I think her point is that a customer shouldn't have to wait two months to be accommodated

It sounds like it was the first time a woman had tried to get a haircut there and they weren't ready for it. It probably takes much less time to get an accommodation now.

An accommodation is really all she's owed. She doesn't have a right to force one particular barber to cut her hair.

by Anonymousreply 14911/18/2012

Even if she wins the Tribunal, all the barber will do is get someone else to cut her hair.

Just like he suggested two months after the fact.

She is also forcing them to have a sign saying 'Hair cuts for both men and women'

by Anonymousreply 15011/18/2012

She stormed out of the shop (after telling the barber off) without telling the barber who she is, or how to get in touch with her.

How were they to know if she was going to come back. If you had a customer tell you off to your face, would you think they come back as a customer?

Plus she left no number where could be reached, not even her name.

They thought she wouldn't be back. But back she is, with a complaint. Two months later.

That is when they offered another barber at the same place. Which she refused.

by Anonymousreply 15111/18/2012

Faith McGregor says

“I am not asking that the shop start servicing all women, regardless of the type of cut requested.”

If a woman asks for a service they already provide, they should not be turned away, she says.

“It seems they are extending the scope of my complaint,” she says. “My specific request was for only the exact same cut they would provide to a man . . . We are no different from the neck up.”

Which the BARBER SHOP did by offering her another barber to cut her hair at the shop.

So they did that, but she REFUSED and is taking this to the Tribunal.

by Anonymousreply 15211/18/2012

There have been blind people with seeing-eye dogs that have been not allowed taxi rides because of Muslim cab drivers whose "religion doesn't allow them to associate with dogs."

Do you think that is ok, too?

by Anonymousreply 15311/18/2012

The point is that individual Barber Shop offered to accommodate her, so in essence she IS being offered the service.

The individual Taxi cab you mentioned is NOT offering that service.

by Anonymousreply 15411/18/2012

Well, the taxi driver COULD "offer an olive branch" and offer the blind person a journey two months later with a different driver.

You know, if the service gets offered eventually, it makes it OK!

by Anonymousreply 15511/18/2012

It's a HAIRCUT!!!!

Where do we draw the line?

by Anonymousreply 15711/18/2012

[quote] Well, the taxi driver COULD "offer an olive branch" and offer the blind person a journey two months later with a different driver.

Another can would come along that would gladly take the blind person's business.

The bottom line is that the Barber Shop has said they are happy to take her business.

by Anonymousreply 15811/18/2012

btw R155 if a man walked into a high end ladies salon and asked for a 'pixie cut' and all the stylists refused, saying 'We don't work on men's hair'

Is that guy being discriminated against?

by Anonymousreply 15911/18/2012

[quote]Fact: While we don't like sex discrimination in any form, most of us growing up in this culture accept the Roman Catholic Church's sex discrimination as simply a fact.

If they provide a service in the public sphere, ie to non-catholics as well, they are expected to obey the law. This is why catholic orgs that have non-catholic employees can't withhold birth control from insurance plans.

Since Canada doesn't have the constitutional church/state separation we have in the US it will be interesting to see how they rule on this.

by Anonymousreply 16011/18/2012

The barber is just lucky that she didn't wack him with her cane.

by Anonymousreply 16111/18/2012

[quote]They thought she wouldn't be back. But back she is, with a complaint. Two months later.

The OP states "She filed a complaint with the Human Rights Tribunal of Ontario almost immediately"

not two months later

by Anonymousreply 16311/18/2012

Is that a bad thing r162?

by Anonymousreply 16411/18/2012

Thanks for posting that interesting piece, R143. Maybe it would have served gay people better, on the whole, for the woman to not file.

But seriously, this barber shop's business rationale sucks. They have a great location and an elegant shop that's been frequented by celebrities and prime ministers and such.

They should expect that between the open location and their appeal, some women will come in. And they need to be prepared to have exceptionally good rapport with them, especially if they're going to turn them down.

by Anonymousreply 16511/18/2012

[quote] "She filed a complaint with the Human Rights Tribunal of Ontario almost immediately"

The key word is 'almost immediately'

who knows how long it took for the Barber to receive the complaint.

by Anonymousreply 16611/18/2012

There are...ways this could have worked in the Muslim's favor.

by Anonymousreply 16711/18/2012

Gender equality is a situational "equality".

by Anonymousreply 16811/18/2012

[quote]There have been blind people with seeing-eye dogs that have been not allowed taxi rides because of Muslim cab drivers whose "religion doesn't allow them to associate with dogs."

This is illegal. Taxi drivers in Toronto are required by law to take a guide dog in the car when its accompanying a blind person.

Is there a law in effect in Toronto that all haircut shops be co-ed?

by Anonymousreply 16911/18/2012

If it was a Christian fundamentalist, there'd be more attacks on DL on the barber. " We are people who have value," he said. (Unlike you heathen. When we do something, or don't do something, it is holy and cannot be questioned).

The "offer," for a haircut later, was through a lawyer.

R169, the refusal of taxidriver to let a seeing eye dog in the cab has been done, it took a case to make it illegal. Wonder if it is still difficult to get cabs.

by Anonymousreply 17011/18/2012

R143, innocently cites what he quotes as "an opinion piece in a Toronto newspaper" but fails to mention it from the rightwing paper The Sun and that the "journalist" is a nut who went on tour with Ann Coulter. And what is the point of what he wrote? That he hates everyone? Probably because he is sexually frustrated, like Ann Coulter.

by Anonymousreply 17111/18/2012

oops, typo - should have said "We are people who have values"

by Anonymousreply 17211/18/2012

The bottom line is that she was offered a haircut at the barber shop, they tried to accommodate her, but she refused.

She is the one making a stink about it, not the barber.

by Anonymousreply 17311/18/2012

[quote] The "offer," for a haircut later, was through a lawyer.

Link please

by Anonymousreply 17411/18/2012

[quote]the refusal of taxidriver to let a seeing eye dog in the cab has been done, it took a case to make it illegal.

In what location? Not in Toronto where this woman's complaint originates.

The Blind Persons Rights Act was originally adopted in Ontario in 1970 in response to blind people being limited in housing and motel accommodations due to "no pets" policies. There wasn't "a case," there was a general lack of understanding and cultural bias against allowing pets (which is what most people once saw guide dogs as) that resulted in the blind regularly being denied the equal access and opportunity. The answer to that was the BPRA.

It has been illegal in Ontario for over 40 years to discriminate against a blind person on the basis of her using a guide dog. This is not some new thing that originated with Muslim taxi drivers.

by Anonymousreply 17511/18/2012

The "offer" for a haircut later is irrelevant. His business sucks, and she doesn't know what's good for her. Both are lame.

by Anonymousreply 17611/18/2012

[quote]The "offer," for a haircut later, was through a lawyer.

[quote]Link please

It's right there in the OP. She turned down their lawyer's offer, which came two months after the fact.

by Anonymousreply 17711/19/2012

R177 I don't see the lawyer offering the haircut

[quote] The barbershop suggested a solution to McGregor toward the end of August, offering her a haircut from a barber willing to do so.

Where is the lawyer offering the haircut?

by Anonymousreply 17811/19/2012

If he's forbidden from touching a woman outside of his family why the fuck is he a barber? You have to expect that some day a female customer could show up at some point. Also, hiding behind a notoriously bigoted religion and then feigning innocence is hypocritical bullshit.

by Anonymousreply 17911/19/2012

He should hire another barber to just work Wednesdays, which can be dubbed "Lesbian Day", complete with signage that states this.

With Tori Amos albums playing in the background, scented candles burning, and cruelty-free snacks while you wait.

by Anonymousreply 18011/19/2012

Exactly R180

He told the Lesbian the shop will be happy to cut her hair with another barber, but she refused.

So they are accommodating women in the shop, but she wants to make a political point.

by Anonymousreply 18111/19/2012

[quote] he didn't offer her a haircut soon enough

We don't know the time that elapsed between the filing of the complaint to the time he received the complaint.

by Anonymousreply 18311/19/2012

She went to get a haircut in June, all of the barbers said no. The "offer" of a haircut was in late August. "It’s the principle of the matter so I turned down their lawyer’s offer."

by Anonymousreply 18611/19/2012

Says her.

by Anonymousreply 18711/19/2012

Well, if she went in their for a haircut in June, and an "offer" for one comes in late August, it doesn't sound like a normal offer, but one that came a lot later at the suggestion of a lawyer. A real offer would have been done that day.

by Anonymousreply 18811/20/2012

Parents' outrage as transgendered woman is permitted to use the women's locker room 'exposing himself to little girls' Colleen Francis, a transgendered student at Evergreen College, has exposed herself in the locker room to the upset of parents and girls' swim coaches The school says Ms Francis has a right to use the women's locker room due to state law

by Anonymousreply 18911/20/2012

[quote] A real offer would have been done that day.

Quiet hard to do when someone is yelling profanities at you before storming out.

She didn't even leave her name or phone number as to where she could be reached.

by Anonymousreply 19011/20/2012

Where does the article say any of that, r190?

by Anonymousreply 19111/20/2012

Within two months her hair would have grown longer and she might have looked like any other neighborhood hausfrau.

by Anonymousreply 19211/20/2012

Several openly gay men have gotten their cut at that location, without incident. Even after telling the barber shop they are gay.

by Anonymousreply 19311/20/2012

I know, right? Last time I went there, I looked at Karim, licked my lips, and said "Mmmm." And wahla - all of a sudden - I had his delicious uncut merguez in my mouth.

by Anonymousreply 19411/20/2012

[quote] And wahla

voilà

by Anonymousreply 19511/20/2012

If the shop has a barber who is willing to cut women's hair but doesn't work there every day, the shop should offer haircuts to women by appointment. It sounds like they didn't do that, though. Instead, they waited until a complaint was filed and then their lawyer on their behalf offered to have someone cut her hair.

by Anonymousreply 19611/20/2012

Only slaves are forced to provide service to people.

by Anonymousreply 19711/20/2012

[quote] Only slaves are forced to provide service to people.

Yes. Which makes it okay if the girl behind the counter at McDonalds decides to walk off in the middle of your trying to place an order. In fact, it's ok if she goes for a cigarette, makes a phone call, gets fucked, and then comes back to finish taking your order. Because anything less would be tantamount to SLAVERY.

by Anonymousreply 19811/20/2012

And only barbarians or the unintelligent don't make preparations for their business to function, culturally and otherwise, in their given context.

by Anonymousreply 19911/20/2012

He didn't refuse to cut her hair because she is gay.

by Anonymousreply 20111/20/2012

can I get a shave now

by Anonymousreply 20311/20/2012

I'll be there lickety-split, R203.

by Anonymousreply 20411/21/2012

See, those girls just wanna have fun.

by Anonymousreply 20511/21/2012

R203 = Wayne Newton

by Anonymousreply 20611/21/2012

[quote]What would be the reaction if he refused to cut a man's hair?

That's be rather silly, refusing to cut a man's hair at a men's barber shop. Why don't you stick to reality, dear?

by Anonymousreply 20711/21/2012

This would be like forcing a priest to marry a gay couple. That couple can be married by anyone with a license who is willing, and just because a priest performs marriages doesn't mean he is obligated to marry anyone who asks.

by Anonymousreply 20911/21/2012

i think the barber is right. honestly, it wouldn't be fair for a someone to have to break his religion just so that she can make her point. seems kind'a mean in my opinion.

i agree that you shouldn't discriminate against people, but seriously it is a men's barbershop, that's probably why the muslim men work there, so they don't have to cut women's hair. they could make much more money running a salon.

honestly, there are more women's salons and places to get your haircut than there are men's barbershops. of all the areas where we are discriminated against, this is not one of them.

by Anonymousreply 21011/21/2012

If it were an exclusively or mostly Muslim area of town, it would be more understandable.

I worked at a popular five-star salon that catered to wealthy white women who wanted to get away from their husbands for the day. Nonetheless, the owners made sure to build a diverse staff and a diverse rotation, *just* for potential customer service situations. We were not allowed to turn anyone down from making an appointment: not even weirdo guys who enjoyed their foot massages way too much, or one exceptionally creepy dude who would make hair appointments, come in to basically flirt with the stylist(s) for 5 minutes, then leave without a haircut. When we sensed these sorts of things, we would solve them by providing well-trained male staff to handle these situations, and so on. And this is just one of thousands of ways that either diversifying your customer service policies and/or diversifying your staff can save your ass if your store is just hanging out in the public arena.

by Anonymousreply 21211/21/2012

no one should be forced to do anything

by Anonymousreply 21511/21/2012

Fair enough, but then Christian women should be able to shoo you out of their place of business without getting any whiny backlash.

by Anonymousreply 21611/21/2012

[quote]Just to play Devil's advocate what about high end women's salons who don't do men's hair?

I've never heard of a women's hair salon refusing to take male clients. Is there such a place in North America?

by Anonymousreply 21711/21/2012

The Alliance Defending Freedom is not letting having one of their lawyers being arrested for child pornography stop them from pushing their anti-gay agenda on Maine, Maryland and Washington by [bold]telling the officials in each state that they can refuse to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples. According to the ADF, these officials do not have to ‘violate their faith or conscience’ by issuing the licenses, but can, instead, delegate that to someone else.[/bold]

by Anonymousreply 21811/21/2012

R217 Chicago Male Doesn't do Women's hair. It is Men only.

by Anonymousreply 21911/22/2012

People should be forced to do everything. Really, literally everything. Complete anarchy would be good for a change. Shake things up a little.

by Anonymousreply 22212/02/2013

If you are not willing to serve the public, and that means ALL of the public, you should not be in business. Christian bakery, Muslim barbershop. Same difference.

by Anonymousreply 22312/04/2013

Oh look, a humorless dyke.

by Anonymousreply 22412/04/2013

What kind of idiot are you R220? I'm so tired of "straight girls" infesting this board with their (sometimes subtle) homophobic bullshit. Listen, sweetheart, frequenting a gay board doesn't make you an ally or gay friendly.

by Anonymousreply 22512/04/2013

Here in Houston many of the Muslim establishments have their signs in Arabic. Lets us non-muslims know that they don't want us in there & it's fine by me.

I still go to the Pakistani restaurants though. That shit is tasty.

by Anonymousreply 22712/04/2013

@R224: Gay man here. Don't see the difference between a barber shop that won't serve women, a bakery that won't serve gay people or a whites only lunch counter in the Jim Crow South.

by Anonymousreply 22812/04/2013

Just to update people..

During a closed-door mediation session Friday, Faith McGregor and barbershop owner Omar Mahrouk came to an “arrangement” that satisfied them both, thus putting the controversial complaint to rest.

Both Ms. McGregor and Mr. Mahrouk signed a confidentiality agreement that bars them from sharing any details — common practice when a conflict ends in mediation instead of moving on to an actual tribunal. But both expressed relief in the process.

by Anonymousreply 22912/04/2013

Just For Lesbians

by Anonymousreply 23012/04/2013

To answer an earlier post - no, I don't think there are any women's salons that don't take male clients. Not in the US, anyway.

by Anonymousreply 23112/04/2013

R230 thx for the laugh

by Anonymousreply 23212/04/2013

Needlessly provocative title, OP. The issue is a cultural one. Really, this time. I know people around her like to throw that around to excuse sexism and other 'isms displayed in the Muslim world. In this case, I definitely side with the barbers. It has nothing to do with lesbians or male haircuts.

by Anonymousreply 23312/04/2013

Unless those guys were giving haircuts to more feminine women, then throw out what I said. It would still be their right to deny her a haircut and it would be her right to persuade people to stop giving them their money.

by Anonymousreply 23412/04/2013

Discrimination based on culture. Hmmm. No. The American South believed segregation was appropriate based on their culture. The reason people defend discriminatory practices by Muslims is because it's a RELIGION. I don't care if it's your culture or your belief in magic and an invisible sky friend. It's wrong.

by Anonymousreply 23512/04/2013

How many who side with the barber also sides with the bakery that refused to bake for a gay wedding because of the owner's beliefs about gays and gay marriage?

by Anonymousreply 23612/04/2013

Sorry. didn't notice my point about barber:christian bakery was already made a couple of times.

But I am shocked by how many side with the bakery, and gay men's misogyny.

by Anonymousreply 23712/04/2013
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