OBAMA (50%) - 61,164,405
ROMNEY (48%) - 58,159,408
OBAMA (50%) - 61,164,405
ROMNEY (48%) - 58,159,408
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 242||01/02/2013|
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 1||11/09/2012|
Good. It won't stop freepers from whining, but I like having ammunition when I'm arguing.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 2||11/09/2012|
So... the Presidents that got the most votes ever in the popular vote are... the top five? Someone?
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 3||11/09/2012|
Somewhat pointless question.
But #1 is undoubtedly Obama in 2008. #2 will be Obama in 2012, and #3 is McCain in 2008.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 4||11/09/2012|
Obama's current percentage lead of 2.5% matches Bush's lead over Kerry in 2004. Once all votes are counted, Obama's lead will be close to 3.5%.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 5||11/09/2012|
He wins by more than 3 million votes. The % is edging up towards 51% to 48 %. He took 26 states + the District, and the media and the GOP refuses to acknowledge it!
They're spinning it. They've learned nothing. They're marginalizing themselves. They lived in a parallel universe filled with lies thru the entire cmapaign, and they are still driving down that rode. There's an old cliche: When you find yourself in a hole, it's best to stop digging.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 6||11/09/2012|
Not a pointless question, R4.
If the top two Presidents in terms of number of votes received are both Obama, and Democrats have won the majority vote in 5 out of 6 of the last elections, it's kind of difficult to keep perpetuating the myth that this is a "center-right" country, is it not?
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 7||11/09/2012|
This is a little scary though--the whole country is RED!!!!
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 8||11/09/2012|
[quote]When you find yourself in a hole, it's best to stop digging.
They don't have enough sense to stop digging. And at this point, they are using an auger to just drill deeper and deeper into the abyss.
We should all just throw flowers on them and wave goodbye!
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 9||11/09/2012|
But most of those states are sparsely populated in relation to their land mass, R8.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 10||11/09/2012|
The fact that the vast uneducated rural areas go Republican shouldn't surprise you R8. The thing is, there aren't enough people living in those areas.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 11||11/09/2012|
I saw it rounded now as 50.5% and 48.0% yet CNN is still rounding it to 50% and 48%. I'm waiting for the 51% to 48%. Not important but it does match the 2004 rounded numbers. I assume that he's probably at something like 50.46% which would round to 50.5% but also to 50%.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 12||11/09/2012|
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 13||11/09/2012|
I would love, love, love it - if Romney ended with 47%.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 14||11/09/2012|
R8 it has been that way for decades, if not longer. How old are you?
The encouraging sign is that Colorado and Nevada are now very blue. And the midwest is reliable once again, where we lost them in 2000 and 2004.
You want to see red? Go back to 2004. Scary.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 15||11/09/2012|
R14 how sweet would *that* be?
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 16||11/09/2012|
Did they finally put Florida in Obama's column?
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 17||11/09/2012|
"Somewhat pointless question.
But #1 is undoubtedly Obama in 2008. #2 will be Obama in 2012, and #3 is McCain in 2008."
The question was which presidents got the largest popular votes. Leaving aside that the question, in order to have any real meaning would have to be limited to percentage of the popular vote so as to allow for population growth, as you recognize, the question was which "presidents" got the largest popular vote.
Your answer then is simply wrong. As McCain is not, has never been, and never will be president of the U.S..
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 18||11/09/2012|
Clinton did not get over 50% of the vote in either election (of course he had Perot to contend with, but Perot probably took more Republican-leaning votes than Democratic-leaning ones).
Obama has had a great success in this election. Not only is he the only Democratic President other than Clinton to win reelection since FDR, but he actually won with more than half the electorate's support.
A mandate? Hardly, given that it is amazing that so many Americans could vote for Mitt Romney - amazing, given what a horror he is and how compared to Obama he is a piece of shit - but still very impressive.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 19||11/09/2012|
Lyndon Johnson won reelection. He wasn't elected President in 1960 but he was President running for reelection in 1964 when he won in a landslide.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 20||11/09/2012|
R8 reminds me of what Colbert's faux outrage the day after the election: "Why don't we elect presidents based on square footage???"
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 21||11/09/2012|
[quote]Did they finally put Florida in Obama's column?
Not officially, but it is very, very likely that Obama will win it based on where most of the remaining votes are in Southern Florida.
The Romney campaign has already conceded Florida, but the networks are going to wait another day or two before officially calling it.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 22||11/09/2012|
Looking forward to it, PT12.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 23||11/09/2012|
Good point about Johnson, r20, I didn't think of that.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 24||11/09/2012|
"If the top two Presidents in terms of number of votes received are both Obama, and Democrats have won the majority vote in 5 out of 6 of the last elections, it's kind of difficult to keep perpetuating the myth that this is a "center-right" country, is it not?"
The Democrats are a center-right party.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 25||11/09/2012|
"This is a little scary though--the whole country is RED!!!!"
Republicans dominate in larger states and in only a few more states than Democrats do.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 26||11/09/2012|
You're an idiot R26.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 27||11/09/2012|
Actually, let me correct that. Of the 51 electoral units (50 states and D.C.), Republicans won 24. Democrats won 27.
Of course, the population of those 27 units is much higher than in those 24 units. But the 24 units tend to be much larger in area.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 28||11/09/2012|
Popular Vote, in millions:
Barack Obama, 2008: 65.1
George W. Bush, 2004: 62.0
John Kerry, 2004: 59.0 (but lost)
John McCain, 2008: 57.2 (but lost)
Ronald Reagan, 1984, 54.4
Popular Vote, by percentage:
Lyndon Johnson, 1964, 61.1
Franklin Roosevelt, 1936, 60.8
Richard Nixon, 1972, 60.7
Warren Harding, 1920, 60.3
Ronald Reagan, 1984, 58.8
Ronald Reagan, 1984, 525 (49 out of 50 States, all but Minnesota)
Franklin Roosevelt, 1936, 523 (46 out of 48, all but Maine & Vermont)
Richard Nixon, 1972, 520 (49 out of 50, all but Massachusetts)
Ronald Reagan, 1980, 489 (44 out of 50)
Lyndon Johnson, 1964, 486 (44 out of 50)
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 29||11/09/2012|
SQUEAKER! SQUEAKER! SQUEAKER! SQUEAKER!SQUEAKER!
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 30||11/09/2012|
The Huffington Post declares Obama elected in FLORIDA.
Don't think the networks will do so officially for another day or two though.
OBAMA: 61,422,740t (50.5%)
ROMNEY: 58,314,158 ( 47.9%)
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 31||11/09/2012|
POPULAR VOTE - ***Update***
OBAMA: 61,680,412 (51%)
ROMNEY: 58,487,232 ( 48%)
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 32||11/10/2012|
On CNN David Gergen and Gloria Borger were still putting the idea out there that Obama didn't have a mandate and that it's on him to learn how to compromise with conservatives. They never stop with this shit.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 33||11/10/2012|
What amount of the popular vote or number of electoral votes constitutes a mandate?
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 34||11/10/2012|
You forgot to subtract the votes of "fake" America.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 35||11/10/2012|
R21, that works for me. Tacking to the middle would put him a lot further to the left than he was before.
He's too far to the right to be considered centrist. I'm not sure how much more he can compromise without becoming a conservative Republican.
I hope this time around you right-wingers will begin to compromise. It's your turn.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 37||11/10/2012|
[quote]If Obama had Clinton's political instincts, he'd tack to the middle and get a lot done. But he's arrogant and an ideologue, so he won't compromise enough, and we'll be stuck in this decline.
I love these arguments. Yes, let's do a side-by-side comparison of Barack Obama, John Boehner and Mitch McConnell and see who's the ideologue. As r37 says, BO is already right of middle - I wonder what color the sky is in r36s world?
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 38||11/10/2012|
Green--with envy and sour grapes.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 39||11/10/2012|
Is Romney down to 47% Popular Vote yet? Because that would be SWEET.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 40||11/10/2012|
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 41||11/10/2012|
About Florida: I think it's going to become lots easier for Democrats to win. The state is now 20 for 22 election cycles having voted for the winner. (I don't want to get into Election 2000!) That would be from 1928 to 2012, and with the only two who did not carry Fla. were John Kennedy in 1960 and Bill Clinton, with his first election, in 1992.
Duval County (Jacksonville) is key. In 2000, Duval was 17 points redder than how the state voted. In 2004, it came down to 11 points redder than how the state voted. In 2008 and 2012, it was just about 4 or 5 points redder. Meaning, that county is trending to a status of competitive/blue. The Republicans would normally consider Duval County a firewall for their chances in winning the state. Not no more.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 42||11/10/2012|
R29 - Obama had around 70 million votes in 2008.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 43||11/10/2012|
FLORIDA has OFFICIALLY been called for OBAMA this afternoon:
Final ELECTORAL VOTE:
OBAMA - 332
ROMNEY - 206
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 44||11/10/2012|
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 45||11/10/2012|
What a huge thumping in electoral votes! I saw predictions for this exact outcome but I didn't believe it. I thought Obama would max out at 290.
What an incredible campaign. The Republicans should be embarrassed.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 46||11/10/2012|
R15, Please remember that NV Gov is a Repub, and that Hecht defeated Dem Shelley Berkeley for Jr Sen. Remember what Poll Troll said in the beginning of the summer? In the end the more likable candidate wins. Libertarian Ron Paul even won NV Rebub caucus way back. NV is still a purple state, depending on the presidential candidate from each party. If the Repub run a very charismatic, scandal-free, moderate, Dems better have a stronger alternative. So many in NV are really pro-business, and anti-government involvement/interference/corruption/fees/blatant incompetence.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 47||11/10/2012|
3 million votes is a very, very slim margin
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 48||11/10/2012|
There are still millions of votes to count. The separation between the candidates will grow even more.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 49||11/10/2012|
Polltroll use this link , its more up to dat with the current vote tallies
OBAMA now 62mill
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 50||11/11/2012|
I'm curious why the totals for the above link R50, CNN, and Huffington Post all have slightly different numbers.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 51||11/11/2012|
R51 Because cnn and other outlets are a day late .
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 52||11/11/2012|
I really, really want Mitt to end up with 47% of the popular vote.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 53||11/11/2012|
"A national post-election survey commissioned by the Faith and Freedom Coalition last night found that the evangelical vote increased in 2012 to a record 27% of the electorate and that white evangelicals voted roughly 78% for Mitt Romney to 21% for Barack Obama. This was the highest share of the vote in modern political history for evangelicals, Reed said.
“Evangelicals turned out in record numbers and voted as heavily for Mitt Romney yesterday as they did for George W. Bush in 2004,” Reed observed. “That is an astonishing outcome that few would have predicted even a few months ago. But Romney underperformed with younger voters and minorities and that in the end made the difference for Obama.”
It's encouraging that even with a historic evangelical turnout, Obama was able to win easily.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 54||11/11/2012|
[quote]That's about a 2% difference - certainly not a mandate.
First of all, learn to do math. The margin right now is 2.7%, which rounds to 3%, not 2%. And it's still growing.
Bush only won over Kerry by a 2.5 margin and he sure acted like he had a huge mandate.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 55||11/11/2012|
And they're STILL COUNTING in Arizona.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 56||11/11/2012|
So what's the pop vote to date? Isn't Obama up by over 3 million ?
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 57||11/11/2012|
R54, all that proves is that those people aren't really Christian.
No true follower of the teachings of Christ could have ever voted for Romney over Obama.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 58||11/11/2012|
bitch got less votes than john kerry in "04, and remember? bush said she had a mandate, so obama has MORE of a mandate.
rmoney 58,777,012 48.3%
kerry 59,028,444 48.3%
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 59||11/12/2012|
Only four presidents in modern history have won 50 percent of the vote twice:
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 60||11/12/2012|
the right will never admit what is a clear mandate.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 61||11/12/2012|
"No true follower of the teachings of Christ could have ever voted for Romney over Obama. "
No true follower of the teachings of Christ would ever shake down Indian tribes for their casino money in a blatant extortion attempt, but that didn't stop that closeted fag Ralph Reed from doing just that.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 62||11/12/2012|
R59 - Romney is at 47.9%. Less than Kerry now in both percentage and votes. He will likely pass him in votes but likely not in percentage.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 63||11/12/2012|
Let's get that Romney percentage down just a little more so that it rounds to 47%. That would be sweet.
2012PT, do you know how many million votes are still assumed to be out there?
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 65||11/13/2012|
Richard Carmona has given up on the Senate race in AZ yet. There's still a lot of votes still to be counted there.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 66||11/13/2012|
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 67||11/13/2012|
[quote]As the rest of the votes come in from California, Mr. Obama could add about 700,000 more votes in his margin against Mr. Romney, assuming that the remaining votes are divided between the candidates in about the same proportions as the ones counted so far.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 68||11/13/2012|
If Obama had an R after his name, by golly, it would be a mandate and a LANDSLIDE!!!
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 69||11/13/2012|
you betcha, r69!
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 70||11/13/2012|
Is there a daily update somewhere?
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 71||11/13/2012|
Here are the latest numbers, R71:
OBAMA - 62, 346, 445 - (50.6%)
ROMNEY - 58, 976 , 480 - (47.8%)
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 72||11/14/2012|
Romney at 47%.
This was like the best election ever.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 73||11/14/2012|
Come on. Drop another 0.4% Romney vote.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 74||11/14/2012|
Dave Leip has it at:
Mitt Romney |t58,789,815 |t47.82%
Barack Obama | t62,149,499 | t50.55% t
Margin (Raw Votes): D + 3,359,684
Margin: D + 2.73
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 75||11/14/2012|
People thought Gary Johnson might get 2% and turn the election. If you look at R75's link, if Romney had gotten every Gary Johnson vote it still wouldn't have turned the election.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 76||11/14/2012|
EXCEPT when we don't win!
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 77||11/14/2012|
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 78||11/14/2012|
Nov 14 - Update:
OBAMA - 62, 610, 003 - (50.6%)
ROMNEY - 59, 133 , 398 - (47.8%)
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 79||11/14/2012|
This is more up to date , obama now over 63million
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 80||11/15/2012|
R80, could you post the numbers? The link isn't working for me.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 81||11/15/2012|
Could it possibly hit 4 Million votes?
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 82||11/15/2012|
OBAMA = 62,611,250
ROMNEY = 59,134,475
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 83||11/15/2012|
The difference is 3,476,775, or about 3.5 million votes.
2012 Poll Troll? How many votes were cast for other? (or rather, total votes cast)? Just curious what percentage went to third parties and write-ins.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 85||11/15/2012|
R85, at this point in time, the breakdown is:
OBAMA = 50.6%
ROMNEY = 47.8%
OTHER = 1.6%
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 86||11/15/2012|
Obama , 63,700,000 Romney 59,800,000
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 87||11/17/2012|
Almost there, r82.
Right now the difference is approximately 3.9 million!
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 88||11/17/2012|
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 89||11/18/2012|
One reason for Obama's numbers being lower is that there were around 14 million fewer votes cast in this election compared to 2008.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 90||11/18/2012|
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 91||11/18/2012|
kind of crazy that votes sre still being tabulated, but if it puts the win at over 4 million, i'm all for it!
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 92||11/18/2012|
Why hasn't Huffington Post updated their numbers in a few days?
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 93||11/18/2012|
I'm not sure, R93. I noticed that a number of political sites haven't bothered to update their numbers this week.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 94||11/18/2012|
Do you know which one has an updated number? I was following and then it all stopped.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 95||11/18/2012|
I don't think they did much counting over the weekend.
I doubt they'll do much over the holidays either (Wednesday-Sunday of next week)
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 96||11/18/2012|
Well, consider that a lot of people in NJ, NY and several other states were not voting because of the hurricane. I also read that California is still counting. I guess we won't get final numbers until the election is certified in mid-December and the final official count is published. Then the Electoral College votes.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 97||11/18/2012|
Obama's vote-total - 63.5M and rising - is now the highest ever for a president seeking reelection.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 98||11/19/2012|
In terms of most votes, Obama has the two top slots.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 99||11/19/2012|
And yet the MSM still deny he has a mandate when he clearly does.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 100||11/19/2012|
(rolling eyes at R101)
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 102||11/19/2012|
Notice the people who dislike Obama can't attack him without engaging in hyperbole or hysteria?
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 103||11/19/2012|
The Associated Press has stopped counting, so none of the usual news sites will have any further updates.
The most current source is the spreadsheet maintained by David Wasserman of the Cook Political Report.
Go to the second tab in the file, "Overall Vote%s."
By the way, Romney's share is currently at 47.6% and dropping, so it will likely end up below 47.5% -- which means it will round to 47%. Tee hee!
Wasserman also has a twitter feed: @Redistrict
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 104||11/19/2012|
R104 The link I have posted several times in this thread but everybody keeps ignoring .Thanks for reposting
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 105||11/19/2012|
wow, that's almost a 4 million vote advantage-- 3,923,614.
Obama's edge is 3.12% of the 125,795,061 popular votes cast. That's higher than
1) George Bush's 2004 reelection win by 2.46% ("I earned capital in the campaign, political capital, and now I intend to spend it.")
2) George Bush's 2000 election (-0.51%)
3) Jimmy Carter's 1976 win (2.06%)
4) Richard Nixon's 1968 win (0.70%)
5) JFK's 1960 win (0.17%)
6) Woodrow Wilson's 1916 reelection win (3.12%)
7) Grover Cleveland's 1892 win (3.01%)
8) Benjamin Harrison's 1888 win (-0.83%)
9) Grover Cleveland's 1884 win (0.57%)
-James Garfield's 1880 win (0.09%)
-Rutherford Hayes' 1876 win (-3.00%)
-James Polk's 1844 win (1.45%)
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 107||11/19/2012|
Right, the ONLY president with a higher percentage was Reagan.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 108||11/19/2012|
No, there have been at least 34 elections with a higher popular-vote margin of victory.
Reagan's 1984 reelection was only the 7th largest margin.
Not that popular vote really matters.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 109||11/19/2012|
Thanks on the spreadsheet. Weird that the most accurate tally seems to be a linked spreadsheet. I'm absolutely waiting for Romney to round to 47%. That will be terrific.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 110||11/19/2012|
[quote]Alaska: Obama picks up 5,405 votes, Romney 7,193 in today's counting. O now running 3.69% better than '08 there:
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 111||11/19/2012|
Ha so troll you finally start using the link I posted ages ago
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 112||11/19/2012|
I saw the link earlier on the thread, yes, but I thought I would let you be in charge of that one most of the time. : )
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 113||11/19/2012|
[quote]wow, that's almost a 4 million vote advantage-- 3,923,614.... Obama's edge is [bold]3.12% [/bold]of the 125,795,061 popular votes cast.
I'm bad at math but isn't that 3.9%?
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 114||11/19/2012|
lol , well you are the numbers guy I dont like interfering with your flow
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 115||11/19/2012|
I eat old people's excrement.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 116||11/19/2012|
I don't mind if you post some links and contribute.
Remember that now that the election is over, I have gone into semi-retirement until the next one. : )
I won't be posting as often.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 117||11/19/2012|
3,923,614 / 125,795,061 = 0.031190525
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 118||11/19/2012|
So now coming to think of it, the election wasnt even close . Sigh Never what to go through this again. It was nerve racking. No matter how many times I read nate silver it was never enough comfort cos I kept thinking what if he is wrong , what if the right are really seeing something that we are not . They ALL cant really be WRONG ALL OF THEM. I guess this election answered that question
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 119||11/19/2012|
R108 is so sad a case.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 120||11/19/2012|
It was incredibly close. At least three groups turned out in numbers larger than they have historically: blacks, hispanics, and under-24s.
Every one of them was needed--plus teh geys and asians.
And, if their turnout isn't maintained in future elections (like 2014 midterms) there is no guarantee of future wins, no matter what the demographics say about the population.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 121||11/19/2012|
"It was incredibly close." _ It was close, but it wasn't incredibly close, R121. Obama won by several states, unlike Bush over Kerry and certainly unlike Bush v Gore. Obama had a clear majority in the popular vote too.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 122||11/19/2012|
what was clintons margin in 1996 and 1992 ?
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 123||11/19/2012|
R123, I think Clinton won by 7 or 8 points in 1996 and by about 5 points in 1992.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 124||11/19/2012|
then why didn clinton get over 50 percent of the popular vote , if the margin was so wide
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 125||11/19/2012|
R125, because Ross Perot took a share of the vote in both elections, although less so in 1996 than in 1992.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 126||11/19/2012|
R125 - Ross Perot.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 127||11/19/2012|
Bill Clinton did get to 49% of the vote in 1996, though, so he came close to 50%.
Bottom line is that what is significant is that over the past 20 years the Democrats have gotten over 300 Electoral Votes 4 times, whereas the GOP has not done so once.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 128||11/19/2012|
Dinosaur party. RIP
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 129||11/19/2012|
Bill Clinton won his first election in 1992 by 5.56%. His re-election in 1996 was a margin of 8.52%.
Bill Clinton garnered around 43% when he unseated George Bush Sr. in 1992, who had about 37%, while Ross Perot had about 18.5%.
In 1996, Clinton had over 49%. Bob Dole had just over 40%. Ross Perot had a bit over 8%.
Electoral Votes (since 1992): Bill Clinton, 1992, 370 electoral votes; Clinton, 1996, 379 electoral votes; George W. Bush, 2000, 271 electoral votes; Bush, 2004, 286 electoral votes; Barack Obama, 2008, 365 electoral votes; Obama, 2012, 332 electoral votes.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 130||11/19/2012|
Clinton-44,909,806 (43.0%) 5.5% margin
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 131||11/19/2012|
R128 - "Bottom line is that what is significant is that over the past 20 years the Democrats have gotten over 300 Electoral Votes 4 times, whereas the GOP has not done so once."
Yes, the Dems have gotten over 330 Evs four times in the last 20 years. The GOP has only gotten to 280 or so.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 132||11/19/2012|
Democrats have won the popular vote in 5 of the last 6 presidential elections. It's very difficult for Republicans to win the electoral college anymore because of the change in voter demographics. And it's going to take either a charismatic Republican nominee to have a chance going forward. The only reason Dubya got in was because of Clinton's sex scandal, and even at that he lost the popular vote to Gore.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 133||11/19/2012|
sorry, complete Clinton info with correct 1992 Republican candidate
Clinton-44,909,806 (43.0%) 5.5% margin
Bush I-39,104,550 (37.5%)
Clinton-47,401,185 (49.2%) 8.5% margin
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 134||11/19/2012|
"It's very difficult for Republicans to win the electoral college anymore because of the change in voter demographics"
R133 - It is very difficult for Republicans to win the electoral college because their extreme views alienates voters in rising demographic categories.
Bush got 40% percent of the Latino vote in 2004. Romney got less than 30%.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 135||11/19/2012|
Point at the fact that Romney was abominable.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 137||11/19/2012|
[quote]WA: 15,861 new Obama votes, 6,038 Romney (mostly Seattle), pushing Obama to 50.74%, Romney to 47.58% overall:
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 138||11/19/2012|
Who is David Wasserman and why should we trust his spreadsheet?
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 139||11/19/2012|
[quote]But there was a 12% decrease in votes being cast compared to 2008.
No there wasn't, you dumb math turd. And that's not even including at least a couple million ballots nationwide that's still uncounted.
[quote]Who is David Wasserman and why should we trust his spreadsheet?
It was explained above, you dumb reading comprehension turd.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 140||11/19/2012|
"It was explained above"
No, it was not. Can you share who he is, where the spreadsheet is linked on their website, and why they should be trusted?
If we're going to default to a Google doc as the authoritative source, I'd like to know a little more about its provenance.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 141||11/19/2012|
The High Value of the Gay vote
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 142||11/19/2012|
[quote]As those Democratic-leaning states come in, Obama's share of the vote has inexorably climbed to 50.75%, while Romney's share continues to slowly deflate, and is now down to 47.56% by one credible estimate complied by the excellent Dave Wasserman of the Cook Political Report.
[quote]Just 0.06 of a percentage point stands between Romney and the humiliation of being rounded down for ever to 47% – meaning the Republican candidate's election gaffe may be turned on its head to hilarious effect since it will be Romney, and not Obama, who was the candidate of the 47%.
[quote]That also means Obama's 2012 victory was by a wider margin than George Bush's re-election in 2004, and thus better than any other presidential candidate since 1988, other than himself, of course.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 143||11/20/2012|
[quote]Romney Likely to End Up at 47%
Greg Sargent: "When all the votes are counted, could Mitt Romney really end up achieving perfect poetic justice by finishing with 47 percent of the national vote?
Yup. Dave Wasserman of the nonpartisan Cook Political Report says new votes in from Maryland put Romney at 47.56 percent. He predicts with certainty that with all of New York and California counted, Romney will end up below 47.5 percent of the vote. Rounded, of course, that would put the final tally at 51% to 47%."
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 144||11/20/2012|
Remember the 2008 general election map brandished by Republicans, showing a blue fringe around a sea of red? This 2012 and looky looky, some rural areas are starting to turn blue, even in places like Mississippi.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 145||11/20/2012|
Gary Johnson the libertarian got 1.2 million votes. Did he pick off Romney from the right?
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 146||11/20/2012|
[italic]Latest from Dave Leip's site:[/italic]
Mitt Romney | Republican | 59,769,964 | 47.61%
*Barack Obama | Democratic (inc.) | 63,679,412 | 50.73%
Margin (Raw Vote): D + 3,909,448
Margin (Percentage): D + 3.12
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 147||11/20/2012|
It's really odd that Rocky Anderson got over 5,000 votes in Connecticut. All his other high vote totals were states where he is known.
Roseanne Barr got 48K votes in Cali, plus 8K in Florida and 5K in Colorado. We are very lucky she did not sink the prez in those two states.
Small parties got a lot of votes in Virginia too: 31K libertarian (mix of conservative and liberal); 9K Green (liberal); 13K Constitution (conservative); America's Party 7K (conservative)
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 148||11/20/2012|
R145, those are African American majority counties in the South.
Obama got only 10%(!) of the white vote in Mississippi and 15% in Alabama.
He did much better with whites in the Northeast and West Coast, of course.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 149||11/20/2012|
R148, if someone seriously believed that Roseanne Barr should be president, I'm not sure that they'd vote for Obama if she weren't on the ballot.
Romney down to 47.54%. It would be nice if he fell below 47.5% by Thanksgiving.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 150||11/20/2012|
[quote]Obama got only 10%(!) of the white vote in Mississippi and 15% in Alabama.
Two words, R149: Ray Cizim.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 151||11/20/2012|
He's down to 47.50% this morning. It's almost Thanksgiving for the 47%.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 152||11/22/2012|
Yay, we'll certainly include that in our Thanksgiving toast!
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 153||11/22/2012|
Obama's margin of victory now clearly larger than Bush's in 2004:
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 154||11/23/2012|
[bold]2012 Poll Troll @ R154:[/bold]
George W. Bush's popular-vote margin of R + 2.46 in 2004 was the lowest re-election margin in the history of our 57 individual U.S. presidential elections.
So, this is good for President Obama!
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 155||11/23/2012|
Yes, but it's still not a mandate!!
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 156||11/23/2012|
Suck it, Romney Chap.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 157||11/24/2012|
47.43% and dropping!!
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 158||11/26/2012|
Well now we can round down to 47%
This is amazingly hilarious. What a great end to the year.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 159||11/26/2012|
David Korn and the guys behind the 47% video are national heroes. If it hadn't been for that video, Romney would probably be President right now.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 160||11/26/2012|
[italic]Obama now leads Mitt Romney 50.81%-47.48% in the popular vote. President Obama’s popular vote margin is now bigger than both of the last two successful Republican presidential elections. In 2000, George W. Bush lost the popular vote to Al Gore, 48.38%-47.87%. In 2004, George W. Bush defeated John Kerry in the popular vote, 50.73%-48.27%. Obama is currently posting the biggest margin of victory since Bill Clinton beat Bob Dole, 49.24%-40.71% in 1996.
What was supposed to be a nail biter of an election turned out to be only the 13th closest election in US history. Obama’s margin of victory was bigger than four other modern era (since 1952) winning candidates. George W. Bush (2000 & 2004), Jimmy Carter (1976), and Richard Nixon (1968) all had smaller margins of victory than Obama did.
This means that the bluster coming from the right about President Obama not having a mandate is nothing more than political hot air. Due to the fact that many of the yet to be counted ballots are in New York and California, President Obama’s margin of victory is expected to grow.[/italic]
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 161||11/26/2012|
Romney might as well have the number 47 stamped on his forehead!
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 162||11/26/2012|
R161's pic is the sexiest one of My President I've seen.
I hope the caption is, "I Want YOU!"
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 163||11/26/2012|
Yes, Romney's "47 percent" is poetic justice, but seriously, how the hell could as large of a number as 47 percent--that's a hell of a lot of people (nearly 60 million)--vote for this lying, fraudulent douchebag?
It's a disgrace.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 164||11/26/2012|
R164, that's a valid question that gets asked about a lot of candidates in every election, but it's just a reality of the 2-party system. When you only have 2 parties, they will both be guaranteed a large chunk of the vote automatically.
Look at 2008, for example. Despite an economic collapse, 8 years of Bush, an incompetent Vice-Presidential nominee, McCain still got 46% of the vote.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 165||11/26/2012|
[quote]CA: Napa Co. adds 15,906 new grapes, er, votes for Barack Obama, 7,879 Mitt Romney. Romney drops to 47.42%:
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 166||11/27/2012|
Lot of good new info in the polling. Big Ohio gains for Obama. New Jersey too. Mitt down to 47.40%.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 168||11/28/2012|
Yes, R168, now that the provisional ballots in Ohio are FINALLY being counted, it looks like Obama could increase his lead there from it's current standing of 1.9% on election night to somewhere between 2.5% - 3.5%
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 169||11/28/2012|
[quote]Alaska = 17th state w/ final results: Obama 122,640 Romney 164,676. Biggest Obama improvement in U.S. (3.75%):
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 170||11/28/2012|
Wow, it takes forever to count all of the votes. I wonder if mine was even counted yet.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 171||11/28/2012|
Seems strange to think that Obama's best increase from 2008 was in Alaska, but when I thought about it, it makes sense - Palin was on the ticket then and was at the height of her popularity.
In 2012 it looks like some of the people who voted for Palin in 2008 voted for Obama this year.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 172||11/28/2012|
[quote]BarackObama's popular vote lead hits 3.5%, 65,006,643 to 60,538,051.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 173||11/28/2012|
I'm getting nervous about 2016. Christie's NJ approval numbers are in the 70s. I don't know if Hillary could win against him.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 174||11/28/2012|
R174, it's early days yet. And there's a difference between how Christie does in New Jersey where they admire him for Hurricane Sandy and how he will do nationally.
And we don't know if he will run yet. And there's the weight issue, too.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 175||11/28/2012|
[quote]Pres Obama goes over 65 million votes. 4.5 million more than Mitt, who drops to 47.39%
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 176||11/28/2012|
[quote]CA: Los Angeles reports 58,176 new @BarackObama votes, 14,052 @MittRomney. Obama up to 50.91%, 4.5M vote lead:
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 177||11/28/2012|
Wait, Obama only won California with barely 51%??
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 178||11/28/2012|
R178, that is the National vote number. What that report is saying is that with the latest numbers in from Los Angeles, CA, Obama's National number is approaching 51%.
Obama is currently at 60% in California. (Which is higher than what Reagan got.)
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 179||11/28/2012|
[quote]Still over 200,000 votes to be counted in Los Angeles. That alone will push Pres Obama over 51%.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 180||11/28/2012|
The major polls leading up to the election really were right, save for Gallup and Rasmussen.
I'm still pissed off how the news media tried to convince us that it was a horse race. The only time in the past 12 months that it was close was the week after the first debate. And even then, history showed us that incumbent Presidents almost always do poorly in the first debate, lose ground in the polls, and then come back to win re-election. Of course, the media couldn't be bothered with that fact because they wanted Romney to win. The media tried to affect the outcome of the 2012 election, rather than just report on it. They should be ashamed of themselves.
Let's all remember this in 4 years. Watch the reliable polls, like PPP, and believe them.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 181||11/28/2012|
[quote]I'm getting nervous about 2016. Christie's NJ approval numbers are in the 70s. I don't know if Hillary could win against him.
Already with the Concern Trolls?
Get a fucking life.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 182||11/28/2012|
Hey OP, SPOILER ALERT: Obama wins.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 183||11/28/2012|
President Obama always seemed very cool, calm and relaxed during the final stretch of the campaign, he never seemed worried about losing. I know he's generally cool and really isn't supposed to show anxiety and all that, but he never came off as though he had any doubt about the outcome. He knew what the news programs and the pundits refused to see.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 184||11/28/2012|
I also hate how we start predicting the next election just a couple of weeks after the last one. I had friends who were handwringing over Obama's reelection on INAUGURATION DAY 2009!
However, let's keep in mind why Chris Christie is so popular right now. Not only for his Sandy response, but because of his new-found relationship with the President, which plays well in a state as blue as Jersey. He'll have to run (lol) to the right like the rest of them in the primaries if he wants the nomination.
And R183, fuck off. Peasants do not address Poll Troll.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 185||11/28/2012|
I love R185!
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 186||11/28/2012|
[quote]Mitt now losing votes! RT @Redistrict WI: Final Milwaukee Co. tally adds 4,348 votes for @BarackObama & subtracts 3,506 from @MittRomney:
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 187||11/28/2012|
Now that the Mainstream Media are talking up Jeb Bush as a contender in 2016, we need to start declaring far and wide that 75% of all Americans are opposed to another Bush presidency.
It doesn't matter if it's accurate, simply repeat it authoritatively whenever the subject comes up. "Polls say 75% of all Americans are opposed to another Bush presidency."
Why let the media do all the lying about what the polls really say? Next time out we need to pre-empt them. They can't steal another election for another Bush if it becomes commonly held wisdom that 75% of all Americans are opposed to another Bush presidency.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 188||11/28/2012|
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 189||11/28/2012|
Jeb had better change his name to Shaniqua Goldstein-Gonzales and join the board of Planned Parenthood if he wants a shot at the presidency because no one is going to elect a white guy named Jeb Bush as president.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 190||11/29/2012|
R188 - The MSM was talking up Joe Lieberman in 2002-3.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 191||11/29/2012|
Latest on the popular vote tally:
Obama - 50.92% (65,217,162)
Romney - 47.35% (60,644,151)
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 192||12/01/2012|
Obama is going to go down in history as the greatest president of all. In less than one term he made universal health care, better education, better economy, less wars, less taxes, and marriage equality. How's that for starters? here's to the second term! Suck it Romnut!
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 193||12/01/2012|
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 194||12/01/2012|
Hear! Hear! r193
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 195||12/01/2012|
More than half the states (those missing a * in the spreadsheet) have not finished counting their votes. Don't they have to get everything done by December 17 when the electors meet in each state?
Republican electoral votes (11 states not finished)
Alabama, Arizona, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, North Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, West Virginia
Democratic electoral votes (15 states not finished)
California, Colorado, Illinois, Iowa, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Ohio, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Virginia, Washington
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 196||12/01/2012|
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 197||12/01/2012|
This thread is the definition of schadenfreude.
Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 198||12/01/2012|
[quote]NY: @BarackObama gains 7,532 in assorted Upstate counties, @MittRomney 5,906. Obama hits 65.3 million votes
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 199||12/02/2012|
Obama's lead keeps increasing.
But clearly it was all voter fraud (rolling eyes at moronic Republicans and conservatives)
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 200||12/02/2012|
The Republican presidential candidate has won the popular vote just once in the past six elections.
For years we heard about how the GOP was doomed once the "White Establishment" (to borrow Bill O'Reilly's term) began to lose its power grip. It feels good to finally be living it.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 201||12/02/2012|
I love how Romney only got 47% of the popular vote. What does he have to say about *those* 47%?
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 202||12/02/2012|
Yes, Romney will now get stuck at 47% because he's at 47.3%, and figures get rounded down when they are reported to be below the .5 mark.
Obama is currently at 50.9% and will be rounded up to 51% (and could actually hit 51% anyway if the remaining votes continue to come in at the current spread).
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 203||12/02/2012|
ITA with R193, if ANYONE deserved a second term it was President Obama after all he accomplished with right wingers trying to stop him at every turn. They KNOW he's great and that's why they despise him.
One more BIG achievement - getting Osama bin Laden.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 204||12/02/2012|
It turns out Romney really was right after all. 47% really are professional victims who do not want to take any responsibility for thir own lives. Anybody who saw Karl Rove and company on Fox News on election night saw it demonstrated right before their eyes, live.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 205||12/02/2012|
W&W for R205
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 206||12/02/2012|
[quote]CA: Los Angeles County reports 26,913 new Barack Obama votes, 6,387 Mitt Romney. Obama up to 50.94% nationally
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 207||12/02/2012|
[quote]Iowa, final result:
Obama wins 52% - 46,2%.
RCP avg: 2,4%.
538 proj: 3,2%.
Best poll: Marist +6%.
Worst: ARG, Ras -1%
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 208||12/03/2012|
[quote]Romney drops to 47.32% nationally. Obama up to 50.94%, More than 4.6 million votes ahead
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 209||12/03/2012|
I give R205 a W&W as well.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 210||12/03/2012|
What does this mean for the future of Rasmussen? Surely, as one of the bottom three polling outfits in terms of accuracy, there have to be some repercussions. Are they going to clean up their act and will Fox continue to shill them?
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 211||12/03/2012|
[quote]Minnesota becomes 33rd state to certify results: Barack Obama 1,546,167- Mitt Romney 1,320,225. Obama -1.29% vs. '08:
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 212||12/04/2012|
Gallup has Obama's job approval rating up to 54, the highest level since October 2009.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 213||12/04/2012|
Obama's national popular vote is now up to 50.94 percent, Romney down to 47.32 percent.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 214||12/04/2012|
[quote]CA: Fresno Co. reports 13,142 new votes for Barack Obama, 6,846 Mitt Romney. Obama up to 50.95% nationally:
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 215||12/04/2012|
There's up to a million votes from NYC yet to be counted.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 216||12/04/2012|
Wow, there's some kind of deadline, they better get on it.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 217||12/04/2012|
Yes, no one knows exactly how many votes are left from NYC yet, or why it's taking so long for them to come in.
If they do finally come in, it may push Obama over 51%.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 218||12/04/2012|
Keep on pushin'.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 219||12/04/2012|
[quote]NY: Rockland County reports 5,211 new Barack Obama votes, 4,427 Mitt Romney. U.S.: Romney falls to 47.31%:
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 220||12/06/2012|
About a quarter of the states (those missing a * in the spreadsheet) have not finished counting their votes. Don't they have to get everything done by December 17 when the electors meet in each state?
Republican electoral votes (5 states not finished)
Nebraska, North Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, West Virginia
Democratic electoral votes (7 states not finished)
California, Colorado, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Pennsylvania, Virginia
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 221||12/06/2012|
From Dave Wasserman at Cook Political Report:
[quote]NY: In my estimation, there are around 500,000 uncounted votes left, with between 70%-75% coming from NYC. Barack Obama will easily top 51%
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 222||12/07/2012|
Please keep us informed Poll Troll, I'm looking forward to hearing the final tally.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 223||12/07/2012|
[quote]New Upstate NY votes push @BarackObama to 50.98% U.S., @MittRomney down to 47.29%:
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 224||12/10/2012|
Obama could become the first President since Eisenhower to get 51% of the vote twice.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 225||12/10/2012|
How close now?
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 226||12/10/2012|
2012 Poll Troll (or anyone else), do we have final numbers?
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 227||12/18/2012|
Who's Mitt Romney? Must be old news.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 228||12/18/2012|
According to the latest numbers, here is where it stands:
Obama = 50.97%
Romney = 47.29%
Obama = 65, 594, 456
Romney = 60, 859, 486
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 229||12/19/2012|
Hawaii numbers not in yet, either - Obamaland.
And New York numbers not in yet; also heavily Obama and in LARGE quantities!
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 230||12/19/2012|
It just stuns me that 60 million people are racist or stupid enough to have voted for Romney.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 231||12/19/2012|
Every single vote should be counted, because that's the motto of the whole democracy process: Every Vote Counts!
Make the Republicans' defeat loud and clear to them.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 232||12/19/2012|
With Hawaii and New York still not finished counting . . .
Obama - 65,892,366 (51.06%)
Romney - 60,926,847 (47.21%)
Other - 2,234,791 (1.73%)
That's a margin of 4,965,519 ort3.85%
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 233||12/31/2012|
Romney's 47 percent is ironic delight.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 234||12/31/2012|
Thanks for doing the update, R233.
Hadn't been here for a couple of weeks.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 235||12/31/2012|
...and days of auld lang syne.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 236||12/31/2012|
It IS a mandate!
Thanks for the memories 2012 Poll Troll and a Happy New Year to ya!
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 237||12/31/2012|
The first President to win two terms back to back with 51% or more of the vote in generations.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 238||12/31/2012|
Yes, the first Democrat to do so since FDR, R238.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 239||12/31/2012|
Love Romney's 47%.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 240||01/01/2013|
As do I, R240.
(But it should have been more like 37% for Mitt Romney.)
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 241||01/02/2013|
If you're going to go there, it should have been closer to 20% tops.
|by 2012 Poll Troll||reply 242||01/02/2013|