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The LARGEST Amount of Cash You Loaned Someone & Never Got Back?

Plus share the story behind the loan.

by Anonymousreply 7202/28/2013

$6k. I chalked it up as alimony.

by Anonymousreply 109/16/2012

12k, don't expect to ever see it

by Anonymousreply 209/16/2012

60 dollars.

by Anonymousreply 309/16/2012

$1,200 to my brother and his new wife. Three months after a lavish wedding and honeymoon cruise, they could not afford to pay their rent. It's been two years, so I'm sure I'll never see the money. I'm sure I'll never see it at this point.

by Anonymousreply 409/16/2012

$ 1K to my brother when he wanted to start a little 'pet store' at a flea market. Never got it back. Even when I knew he had it and asked why he didn't offer to pay me back (his response: "I thought I needed it more than you do.")

Ha .........nowadays, I firmly believe don't give money to anyone with the expectation it will be returned. If you can't give it with that mindset, don't give it at all....

by Anonymousreply 509/16/2012

$2,500, "lent" to my sister to send my nephew to military school. He got kicked out for insubordination.....

by Anonymousreply 609/16/2012

$120 to a roommate, but it was 1992 and I was a grad student and that pretty much meant I didn't eat for a month.

by Anonymousreply 709/16/2012

Lent my brother $5000 3 years ago so he wouldn't lose his house. Was supposed to be repairing a year. Still waiting. We don't discuss it but family events are tense. I turned him down last yer when he asked me to consign his HELOC. Once burned-twice learned.

by Anonymousreply 809/16/2012

$3,500 to a best friend. I don't really mind because his now-husband had stretched them thinly.

by Anonymousreply 909/16/2012

$11,050 to my sister and $9,450 to my brother. I've yet to see a penny, but I knew that when I loaned them the money so they wouldn't lose their houses.

by Anonymousreply 1009/16/2012

Seeing the amounts loaned, no wonder Gays are targeted with having a disposable income.

by Anonymousreply 1109/16/2012

$5,000.00 to a friend's business proposition that failed.

by Anonymousreply 1209/16/2012

£900 to my best friend when she was struggling to pay her mortgage. I haven't seen a penny back, but she's had several nice holidays and bought her boyfriend a verrry expensive birthday present. In the beginning there was discussion about her paying me back once she had all the cash together, but I haven't heard anything for a few years.

I could really do with the money now but there's no chance I'll ever see it now. Live and learn.

by Anonymousreply 1309/16/2012

OP = Judge Judy

by Anonymousreply 1409/16/2012

Never loan money to friends of family.

You will resent them and they will resent you.

Either give it with no strings or simply say no.

by Anonymousreply 1509/16/2012

Never loaned anyone any cash. I did loan a book to someone once, and then she died. (Really!) I never got the book back and frankly never wanted to ask the family for it. It seemed like a petty thing to do.

by Anonymousreply 1609/16/2012

$2,000 to a friend back when I was 22 and he needed a down payment for a house. Haven't seen or heard from him in 20 years.

by Anonymousreply 1709/16/2012

R16: Yes, asking the deceased's family for your "How To Commit Suicide" handbook would be in questionable taste.

by Anonymousreply 1809/16/2012

$8k to a friend. She was leaving her husband and taking 3 crazy-ass kids. She decided to take the 401K her ex had to pay out and buy a house because she couldn't find an apt that would accept her Rottweiler.

A year later she was behind in the mortgage and asked for the money until she could sell the house. I agreed, knowing I'd probably not see a dime, because of her kids.

Instead of making the back payments and penalties, she got herself a new iPod, laptop for her AND the daughter, had FIOS installed in the house she was trying to sell, and THEN put what was left toward moving out.

Like I said, never expected to see it come back, but I didn't think I needed to write the check directly to Wells Fargo to keep her from pissing it away like she did the 401k she went through.

by Anonymousreply 1909/16/2012

$5000 to a family member so they wouldn't lose their house. They lost it anyways. I have never seen the money. In fact, their viewpoint is because they had given me gifts in the past, that I owed it to them.

Never loan money to anyone with the intention they will pay it back. There is a reason that they are in the position to begin with.

by Anonymousreply 2009/16/2012

1K to a somewhat good friend for bail money. Promised to pay me back. He has avoided me ever since, not seen a dime.....I even asked him if he would help me with some computer issues I was having, suggesting that he could "work off" his debt that way- since I knew he didnt have the money....he told me he was "too busy".... Even though I DID tell him that he could pay me back when he had the money and not to worry- the fact that he has not brought it up for 8 months to even discuss a payment plan or even to say " I just dont have it yet, but have not forgotten that I owe you" hurts.... Never, ever, again....

by Anonymousreply 2109/16/2012

I "loaned" $4500 to a very close friend who had a series of crazy setbacks. On the one hand, he's extremely responsible, but on the other, he makes poorly reasoned financial decisions.

In my mind, I decided to think of it as giving him the money. What I told him was he could pay me back once he got stable. However, I pointedly said to him that I never want the money to come between us and he should never start avoiding me because he feels guilty about the money.

Side story which shaped my perspective. When I was in college, a good friend's mother who had been screwed in a divorce needed a new car, but had no money. I was amazed to learn that a close friend of the mother had just written her a check for $10K because he was appalled at her being in that position - and was happy to help. I always thought that if I were ever in a like situation, I would like to be able to help my friend.

Friendship intact. If you can't help a good friend when they need it, you're really not that good of friends. Not that I would loan money to any casual acquaintance who asked. But I remember what it's like to think,"if only I could get $1,000, I could dig myself out of this financial abyss (created through no fault of my own)."

by Anonymousreply 2209/16/2012

Not a loan, but similar... An employer of mine had to change payroll companies in the middle of a job I was doing for him. So while he was figuring it all out I was basically working for free. The deal was that I would be given back pay once his payroll situation is resolved. Well, I left the job two months later and never saw any money: 15K. His company dissolved soon after.

I am a free-lancer. Unfortunately, we get screwed over a lot.

by Anonymousreply 2309/16/2012

Shocking that so many dataloungers have thousands of dollars in cash to spare. I was expecting most $50-$500 anecdotes but it seems like most of these stories involve sums in multiples of $1,000 and up. Truly amazing.

by Anonymousreply 2409/16/2012

$14k to an ex friend

by Anonymousreply 2509/16/2012

Neither a borrower nor a lender be!

Do not forget:

Stay out of debt!

Think twice, and take this good advice from me:

Guard that old solvency!

There's just one other thing you ought to do.

To thine own self be true.

by Anonymousreply 2609/16/2012

Twenty dollars. I don't loan because I know I'm the type to resent it. I also never ask for a loan, the one time I've asked for (many years ago) is five dollars and I paid it back the next day. However I treat friends to meals all the time, guess that's how I give.

by Anonymousreply 2709/16/2012

R24, some of us are older with a good amount of savings and a profitable portfolio. Yes, we can afford to lend cash, even if it is foolish.

by Anonymousreply 2809/16/2012

R24, I don't know about the others, but when I had some money, I was willing to help out a family member who was in need. Particularly my young nephew whose father died at a very early age. I "lent" my sister for the kid's tuition at military school. I don't know why the fuck the local public school wasn't good enough.

My sister literally begged me for the money, and in the end, my humanity kicked in, and I gave it to her. When I gave it to her I had a fair amount of money, a 401(k), and plenty of equity in my home.

Now I am middle aged, unemployed and about 2 days away from homelessness and I sure could use the money to get back on my feet.

My sister, who I lent the money to, has disappeared in a manner of speaking. Not only has she destroyed what was a good relationship, but she has left me high and dry..... They say no good deed goes unpunished.

by Anonymousreply 2909/16/2012

$2k to a colleague. It was a stupid move on my part. She never paid a dime back. She was a professor at Mount Sinai med school in NYC.

I lent $150 to a friend when we were in grad school. Eight years later, I got a check in the mail from her. It was a total surprise and I actually needed the money so it worked out well.

by Anonymousreply 3009/16/2012

1998 - I put 5 orchestra seats for Titanic on my credit card for me and four other friends. Each one asked me how much it cost. And each on a least two occasions told me he would pay. And to this day, I'm still out $300.00. I take solace in the fact that two of them are now dead.

by Anonymousreply 3109/16/2012

[quote][R24], some of us are older with a good amount of savings and a profitable portfolio.

And with not very much common sense to go with it, from the sound of things.

What a bunch of pigeons you all are.

by Anonymousreply 3209/16/2012

Some architectural trellage I gave a morally bankrupt gay antique dealer that he promised to pay me $600 for. Never saw it. He diddled so many other people he was virtually run out of town. Next I heard he was in India as he'd been taken up by an heiress as her 'buyer'.

by Anonymousreply 3309/16/2012

I lent about $30k to a friend over three years while he recovered from depression and couldn't find a job. He eventually found a job but other creditors were not as generous. He eventually had to file bankruptcy after credit card companies raised his interest rates to almost 30%.

He listed me as a creditor in his Chapter 13 filing but I declined to respond, which essentially forgave the debt. I never expected him to repay the loan, and I'm glad he recovered.

We're still friends. He has almost finished paying off his other creditors.

by Anonymousreply 3409/16/2012

Never loan money to family that you ever expect to get back. Consider it charity and let it go. When you loan money for someone so they don't lose their house, unless circumstances for them have changed, they will lose their house anyway.

I have helped some people I know who were out of work or down on their luck but I do it with gift cards to supermarkets, gas cards, or a few hundred dollars around the holidays. There's nothing I can do to keep someone's house for them, so I don't try. Sometimes it's better they lose it and start over.

by Anonymousreply 3509/16/2012

I lent my sister 3K to buy her family a new car when their vehicle collapsed from old age.

She has been fairly good about paying back, with a few gaps. I love her so I am fine with it. Like other posters on the thread, am running out of money myself...glad I had it when I was asked.

by Anonymousreply 3609/16/2012

I loaned money to a woman to buy a car, she paid it back.

Then I lent $3000 to a young, handsome, tall, ex-marine who worked in my help him start his business.

Both loans were done with the knowledge it might never come back.

When the strapping boy didn't pay it back, it was disappointing.

by Anonymousreply 3709/16/2012

Reading these posts only reinforces what I already thought: the vast majority of people who find themselves in financial trouble are I that position because they're immature, selfish, and irresponsible.

If I lent money to someone and found out they were taking vacations and buying iPads and he like, I would sue them and garnish their paychecks, regardless of the fact that it would cost me more money in the end.

My sister has borrowed from every single member of our family. She called me with a bullshit story that my niece needed money to get out of a traffic ticket. I told her no. Actually, I told her my 23 year old niece should be calling me herself. I never heard back from either one.

If someone is sick, that's a different story. But this bullshit I'm reading completely pisses me off.

by Anonymousreply 3809/16/2012

20K to friend. He's married now, and doesn't know me any longer.

by Anonymousreply 3909/16/2012

R38, you cannot sue unless there is a promissory note and that one made a good faith effort to collect it.

Believe me, I'v thought about it, but did not get a note.

by Anonymousreply 4009/16/2012

About $2000 to a friend who needed to replace a car to get to work. She immediately thereafter lost the job and claimed she gave the money to her dad, whom she claimed gambled it away. I was eventually able to get some of the money paid back by her temporary fiancee. The fiancee was making regularly monthly payments for awhile.

Unfortunately, the fiancee walked in on her fucking another guy in their bed, so the engagement (and any chance I had of being paid back) was over.

I stopped talking to her shortly after that for several reasons, one of them being the money, but the main one being that she started using cocaine and got pregnant (by an ex-con with no job) so she could get welfare.

It's amazing what a trashy piece of shit she turned into over the years. She was a normal girl with a full time job when I loaned her the money. Then she became the embodiment of a country song, emphasis on "cunt".

Haven't spoken to her in 5 years. She called my parents' house back then trying to find me and saying she had the baby. Don't even remember what the kid's name is, just that it was something trashy and guaranteed to get her kid's future resume thrown in the trash.

by Anonymousreply 4109/16/2012

I loaned this guy I was dating about 1200$ and this happened about three years ago. He was having a hard time with bills, surgery etc.

And it is one of the biggest regrets in my life ever.

We are no longer dating but remain friends and two weeks ago when I asked this fucker to "return the favour", he went nuts.

Karma will bitch slap him.

by Anonymousreply 4209/16/2012

I've never been solvent enough to lend over $800 without getting it back.

I do have a warning for those of you who ruminate over unpaid debts. My dad remembered every fucking loan he gave to people and would bitch to himself about it day after day. It didn't end until I found a GP who was willing to put him on Lexapro.

I wonder if the act of making loans that have zero chances of repayment is a symptom of depression.

by Anonymousreply 4309/16/2012

r22 here

Just a few thoughts from succeeding posts...

Some times bad, uncontrollable things happen to people which no amount of planning or fiscal prudence can manage.

That said, I can only think of two friends to whom I would ever consider loaning money because I have made qualitative judgments about their lives and how they manage money. As it is my money to lend, I am entitled to judge whether they spend money wisely.

I would never loan money to mere acquaintances, no matter how dire the purported situation - if these people don't have family and friend who would loan them money, there's probably a good reason.

I would never loan money if it jeopardizes my own financial situation - first rule, put your own oxygen mask on first, then assist others. Conversely, I would only loan money if I didn't need to get it back on a specific timetable - or at all. I would only loan an amount I could afford to do without - indefinitely or in perpetuity.

However, if a friend repaid my kindness by not paying me back, but proceeded to spend frivolously on unnecessary luxuries, I would reconsider our friendship, and certainly not loan any additional funds in the future.

by Anonymousreply 4409/17/2012

$30K to my best friend when he and his wife needed it, in 1990. Then when they got back on their feet, he wanted to pay me back but she refused. She's a horror. My friend and I didn't speak for a year, but eventually we became close again. I openly loathe his wife and tell him how much I do, and he doesn't seem to care.

Two years ago he started secretly paying me back $1K a month, without telling his wife. He says he'll just keep paying me that $1K a month in gratitude for the rest of his life.

So oddly, it worked out well. We're best friends again, I ended up with more money than I loaned, and I don't have to pretend I like the miserable woman he married.

by Anonymousreply 4509/17/2012

I loaned $1,500 to a co-worker who had been very helpful to me when I started out. Whenever I loan money, I do it against a post-dated check. I had him write me a $500 check and a $1,000 one. The $1,000 was always returned for NSF funds. Just as well, had he been concientious about paying it back, he would have been back for a larger loan at some point in the future. So far, life has been very generous to me and I live very frugally. I shop thrift stores because I love bargains, but I can afford to buy houses and cars for cash and have never paid any interest payment unless I misplace a bill. I realize that everyone who has asked me for a loan usually will not wear used clothing or buy used furniture or even wash their own car, but I don't loan what I can not afford to lose. If they don't pay me back, I can then put them in the "can't count on them" catogory with most of the world. But I do have a few people who have always come through both in paying me back and doing things for me when I need it like coming to help me on the road when I have a sick elderly parent and a screaming 1 year old and a flat tire. I probably do more for people than they do for me, and I am grateful I can do that, and I totally appreciate it when someone comes through for me and remember it always.

Anyway, if you want to load a friend or family money, at least get a post dated check at the time of the loan so you don't have to ask them for one later..... and learn from my experience. Had I made him write me 15 checks of $100 each, I would have probably been able to cash all of them.... you could frame it as letting them make payments back starting with a date they say you can start cashing them.

by Anonymousreply 4609/17/2012

I lent P0 to a meth-addicted, HIV+, former male prostitute friend who had been evicted from his apartment. He'd managed to get himself on HASA and get a new place, and he needed the money to retrieve his possessions from wherever the city locks them up when they evict you. Needless to say, I never that $500 again, nor did I expect to when I lent it.

Most of my other friends and family members are financially stable and responsible, and I'm rarely hit up for a loan, but when someone does ask to borrow money, I always follow the philosophy of "don't lend it unless you're comfortable not getting it back."

by Anonymousreply 4709/17/2012

Great story R45. Glad it worked out for you.

My brother went through a rough separation/divorce. He ended up getting arrested after a confrontation with his wife (nothing physical ...). He called me and his bail was something like $900, which I couldn't get out of the ATM at night. I was with two friends and we each took out $ 300.

Funniest story, the NEXT DAY, one of the friends called me and was all "Can we get together so you can give me that money back ?".

Now HE knew I was good for the money .... and I knew it wasn't his last $ 300 .... it was just so funny, like he thought I was going to skip town or something. The other friend and I still joke about it ("I'll pay you back tomorrow I SWEAR"). And yes, I'm still friends with the 'desperate' friend too, who apparently thought I was off to Rio with his $ 300.

And happy ending here as well ... my brother *did* pay me back as well.

by Anonymousreply 4809/17/2012

The largest loan I have made was for 5K to my X at the time to help him move. He paid me back which surprised me as I did not expect it.

I cannot remember, but another friend over a 2 year period I "loaned" about 2K and bought all kinds of stuff for him totaling at least the as much. He has not paid me back and never will. We are no longer friends, but the money and gifts have nothing to do with it, although I suppose they are symptom of the problems in his life that ended our friendship. His problems are and were much larger than is "debts" to me.

In general, I did not loam money, I give it away. I think it is the only way because if you do not get paid back and you expect it, in can be poison to you.

by Anonymousreply 4909/17/2012

$125 to a then boyfriend to pay a speeding ticket. I dumped him a few weeks later knowing full well I would never get paid back. I consider the money a small price to pay if it means he is out of my life forever.

by Anonymousreply 5009/17/2012

Probably not more than $20 and many years ago. It's rare that I've loaned anything but pocket money. The very few times it's been a larger amount I've always been repaid.

by Anonymousreply 5109/17/2012

I was scammed out of $3,000 by a man named Rick Altmann (also goes by Altman) of Henderson/Las Vegas, Nevada. He lied about what the money would be used for, put up fake collateral and then vanished on me. Turns out he was a gambling addict that would say/do anything to get his sausage-fingers on more money to feed his addiction. I was only 22 when he stole this money from me, and it was incredibly distressing to me at the time. BEWARE OF THIS MAN!!!

by Anonymousreply 5209/17/2012

I loaned $1,000 to someone just this past weekend so they could buy food and insulin. I said "it's a gift." The only way to "loan" money. Maybe it will come back in other ways (hopefully not more loan requests).

by Anonymousreply 5309/17/2012

R52 .... what is the background to that story ? Did that 22 year old think he was communicating with the blond guy in pic # 1 ?? Hysterical.

by Anonymousreply 5409/17/2012

I've learned to just tell people I'm poor, otherwise the instant they know you have money--the wheels inside their head start to turn, scheming of ways to get it from you. "Sorry, I'm broke!" works every time.

by Anonymousreply 5509/17/2012

$1k to my mom so that she could fly overseas to attend a funeral of a loved one. She has a history of not paying people back and since the loan occured so close to her birthday, I just ended up counting it as a birthday present.

In my family "loaning" is synonymous with giving. If you hand something over you'd better not have any expectation of seeing it again.

But we all "loan" each other things so it works out pretty evenly. my sister loaned me $200 for car insurance, then when my laptop died she sold her old one to me for $100 that I never gave her. But it's pretty close to the $80 she never paid me back for a parking permit. She's kind of strapped now so I think I will give her the $100, but it's nice to know she doesn't expect me to or isn't pressuring me to do it.

by Anonymousreply 5609/17/2012

R52, you got pwned. I'd be embarrassed to even put it online.

by Anonymousreply 5709/17/2012

Four years ago I gave my one and only nephew $25k to wipe out his student loan debt. Two days later he shows up at my house in his brand new car. He told me that with the great loan % he had it would have been a shame to spend the money on the student loan. His mother, my sister, suggested he buy the car instead. She said, "You have lots of money, what's the big deal?"

Financially it's been great for me. I figure that I've saved about $15k by not handing out money to them anymore. They think I'm being petty.

Last week I got an email from my sister wanting a "loan." I told her I would only do it if she gave me our mothers jewelry to hold until she paid it back. It's been 6 days and no response so far from her.

by Anonymousreply 5809/17/2012

[quote]you got pwned. I'd be embarrassed to even put it online.

Absolutely not...this man pretended to be my friend and then scammed me, why would I be embarrassed about that? It could happen to anyone--and it is because he's continuing to do it to others as I've discovered online. It's time someone blows the whistle on this criminal, and I'm more than happy to be the one. Now when anyone Google's his name, my site pops up as the first result! Have fun with that, Rick.

by Anonymousreply 5909/17/2012

[quote]It could happen to anyone

Yeah, anyone who thinks with his dick and lends money to online acquaintances because he believes they are hot guys.

by Anonymousreply 6009/17/2012

Our recovery efforts always prevail.

by Anonymousreply 6109/17/2012

R52/R59 ... if that is really your site .... C'mon ... be honest ... you thought he was the blond hottie in that pic, right ?? What were you thinking ?? Oy. If he's really a scammer, have you contacted the authorities to file charges (or is it too hard to prove because you voluntarily did it all ??)

by Anonymousreply 6209/17/2012

r58 Do you think it was his plan the whole time or that your sister convinced him to change his plan.

Note to self - if someone asks to borrow money to pay a debt, make the payment directly instead of handing cash for the payment.

The idea that you are obligated to give family money because you have it irritates me, unless you had inherited a disproportionate share of family wealth (as old money families used to concentrate inter-generational transfers to maintain the estate, but expected that the primary inheritor would support other family members).

I hope your nephew enjoys making payments on both his car and student loans - and hope you never give him money again.

by Anonymousreply 6309/17/2012

[quote]Yeah, anyone who thinks with his dick and lends money to online acquaintances because he believes they are hot guys.

Either my blog wasn't clear enough or you have reading comprehension problems. I met both Rick and his lure in person many, many times. "Thinking with my dick" had nothing to do with anything--I had been fooled into thinking Rick was actually my friend. JR (the hot one) was only in the picture at the very beginning and then quickly faded into the background. You have no idea the details of what went actually down, as I didn't disclose those details anywhere. But thank you anyway for your two cents. My blog serves as a warning to those who want to be warned, and no one else.

by Anonymousreply 6409/17/2012

Sorry you got scammed R52/R59/R64 .... if that blog is helping you feel better about what happened and also possibly helping other people, then good for you.

by Anonymousreply 6509/17/2012

R62 THEY WERE ROOMMATES! Apparently I didn't make that clear enough? Rick befriended "the blond hottie in the pic," moved the kid into his parents' house (where he had sex with him) and then took over his identity online. I didn't know this stuff at the time, only afterwards. It's quite a complicated story, and I really don't care to explain it all here. The moral of the story is that Rick Altmann takes advantage of young men in more ways than one. And he even ended up stealing money from "the blond hottie in the pic" eventually, along with his pornstar boyfriend. This can all be found online. I'm one of many victims of this man's theft. I went to the authorities in Las Vegas and was told it was a civil matter. I have signed documents from Rick stating how much I loaned him and what it was to be used for, along with the collateral he was using for the loan. I didn't just blindly give this man money. I later found out the collateral did not even belong to him, so it was useless. Hindsight is of course 20/20, and I've learned a lot since then. I'm still out to warn others though, as this man continues on with his theft rampage.

by Anonymousreply 6609/17/2012

My younger sister (the youngest of 4) lent our older brother 10K when she was very young. She has always been very, very good at saving money and living on a shoestring budget. It didn't start out as 10K but in a short time it was. For ten years she didn't see anything. He's paid only about 3K of it. He makes promises about giving the rest but it's mostly talk. They stopped speaking for awhile because of it. Our brother makes a 6-figure salary, she doesn't. He's just not good with money, she is.

I lent him 1K, took over 5 years to get it back. It will not happen again.

by Anonymousreply 6709/17/2012

I consigned for a car loan for a relative and got stuck making payments because they stopped paying. I ended up having to repo the car. So, I had to either pay on car or ruin my credit. Never again

by Anonymousreply 6809/17/2012

Geez, I've got a lot to say in this thread.

I had a friend who loaned someone money by getting him a credit card. What started as a $2K loan ballooned to $12K. No matter how many times she requested the credit limit frozen, they just kept raising it because the payments were current - and the friend's name was on the account.

Additionally, in order to keep her credit clean, she ended up having to make payments totaling $4K. The friend eventually paid off the credit card which she was finally able to close, but never paid back the payments she made on his behalf.

Lesson: if you're going to loan someone money, make sure that it's a final, discrete transaction.

by Anonymousreply 6909/17/2012

Over $5,000 to my bishop and his wife when they were having financial difficulties. I was a recent widow and I stopped hearing from both of them. They're doing well now and I have asked for the money back. They said they thought it was a gift. The minute I handed her the check I knew it was the wrong thing to do. They said they will pay me back...We'll see

by Anonymousreply 7002/28/2013

$900 to an ex

I called this past summer to get my money back since I so desperately needed it.

The crazy cunt had the nerve to get angry at me.

The nerve!

by Anonymousreply 7102/28/2013

This thread gives credence to the old saying, "A fool and his money are soon parted.

by Anonymousreply 7202/28/2013
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