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My old boyfriend is now an ex-gay.

Today I had lunch with an old boyfriend. Seeing him kind of got me down. One of the first things he told me was that he was a volunteer for an ex-gay ministry. He is Catholic, and he has an extreme amount of "Catholic guilt" about being gay. So he has undergone a lot of "Pray the Gay Away" ex-gay therapy and has damaged himself beyond repair. He is emotionally castrated now and has no meaningful relationships with either gender.

by Sad in Dallasreply 8208/05/2014

That's disgusting OP. Ask him to reads Romans 13:10 and ask how can he justify his anti-Bible lifestyle. Tell him the Bible is not antigay and he only thinks it is because he hasn't really read it.

by Sad in Dallasreply 209/07/2012

Fuck that spineless shitbag, he's no different than any other homophobe.

by Sad in Dallasreply 309/07/2012

Self hatred is the saddest thing in the world. There in no such thing as an ex gay BTW. That is like straightening your hair and automatically becoming an ex Black. It doesn't work that way. Be a friend to him & hopefully he will learn to love himself.

by Sad in Dallasreply 409/08/2012

Don't all Catholics love young boys?

by Sad in Dallasreply 509/08/2012

[quote]My old boyfriend is now an ex-gay.

No he isn't He's still gay. It's just that now he hates himself for it.

Sad, isn't it?

by Sad in Dallasreply 709/08/2012

If it's one less sneering pretentious queen on Cedar Springs, I'm all for it.

by Sad in Dallasreply 809/08/2012

He wasn't like that, R8.

by Sad in Dallasreply 909/08/2012

Thanks, R11, I feel better now.

by Sad in Dallasreply 1209/08/2012

[quote]We are all accountable to God

Speak for yourself. I most certainly am not.

by Sad in Dallasreply 1309/08/2012

You be turnin' em, guuuurl!

by Sad in Dallasreply 1409/08/2012

how depressing!

by Sad in Dallasreply 1509/08/2012

Does he still act gay?

by Sad in Dallasreply 1609/08/2012

Since humans invented it, "god" is pretty much accountable to us, R11.

by Sad in Dallasreply 1709/08/2012

He acts very emotionally guarded, R16.

by Sad in Dallasreply 1809/08/2012

My boyfriend of 2 years left me for another woman, who was my best friend. Talk about depressing! ☔

by Sad in Dallasreply 1909/08/2012

Thank you, R20.

by Sad in Dallasreply 2209/08/2012

R11, His friend is living a lie and it could very possibly kill him. Not only that, but the friend is also working to harm others by volunteering at an ex-gay ministry. He has been pressured to exist within a lifestyle that will not allow him to have a meaningful relationship. That would make me upset, too.

by Sad in Dallasreply 2309/08/2012

R11=rightwing freeper shit eating cunt.

by Sad in Dallasreply 2409/09/2012

R11 is an example of stupidity at work. Some religions tell men to beat their wives and children. Some religions tell men to kill anyone who "dishonors" the family name. Most religions have involved bloody and evil human sacrifice at their core (hello? Jesus?). The fact that the Bible is not antigay, and this loser believes some pig-ignorant priest with no education and a jones for making easy money off the stupid, does not reflect well on him. If you care about this guy, you'll confront his stupid beliefs. If you don't, well let it go. He is after all the master of his own stupidity. But either way, you'll see cruising public bathrooms in five years' time.

by Sad in Dallasreply 2509/09/2012

R11, this guy works for a "pray out the gay" ministry. That right there you should have a problem with. That's hardly "Live and let live".

Plus I would bet this asshole is voting Rethug.

OP should have punched the gay right back into him.

by Sad in Dallasreply 2609/09/2012

You dodged a major bullet OP. Feel relieved.

by Sad in Dallasreply 2709/09/2012

Sorry, people, but this is still getting me down. This is the group he was de-gayed by and that he volunteers for.

by Sad in Dallasreply 2809/16/2012

You're a sad and pathetic man. You're a homosexual and you don't want to be, but there's nothing you can do to change it. Not all the prayers to your god, not all the analysis you can buy in all the years you've go left to live. You may one day be able to know a heterosexual life if you want it desperately enough. If you pursue it with the fervor with which you annihilate. But you'll always be homosexual as well. Always ______, Always. Until the day you die.

by Sad in Dallasreply 2909/16/2012

'Ex-gay' is inaccurate. These people should be called 'self-neutered'.

by Sad in Dallasreply 3009/16/2012

Get him drunk and suck his dick. That will get him headed back in the right direction. Or, introduce him to the right priest. Or both.

by Sad in Dallasreply 3109/16/2012

Journey Into Manhood ... Is that a Falcon production or something from Bel Ami?

by Sad in Dallasreply 3209/16/2012

OP post a picture of your ex

by Sad in Dallasreply 3309/16/2012

R33, I couldn't do that to him.

by Sad in Dallasreply 3409/16/2012

Ex-gay = Back in the closet

I've still never gotten one of these "pray the gay away" fucks to EXPLAIN to me in real terms how accepting Jesus is going to make me stop craving penis and start salivating for vagina instead. Seriously--I want the details of how exactly that works!

by Sad in Dallasreply 3509/16/2012

OP how old is he?

by Sad in Dallasreply 3609/16/2012

R36, he is 33 or 34, I think.

by Sad in Dallasreply 3709/16/2012

Who cares, they make themselves suffer. Also don't use "ex-gay", that's their terminology. Maybe "pretend-straight".

by Sad in Dallasreply 3809/16/2012

"Pretend-straight". I like that, R38

by Sad in Dallasreply 3909/16/2012

R41, Because having gay resource centers, PFLAG, an annual public parade in every major city, some out and proud celebrities, and gay neighborhoods isn't welcoming enough for a grown-ass man that has already admitted he is gay and had relationships?

And his "religious beliefs" lead him to drag others back into the misery of the closet?

Sorry, he sounds like a plain old coward to me.

by Sad in Dallasreply 4205/26/2013

R41 this went down in DALLAS. Whatever the failings of Dallas queens, they are in no way worse or even comparable to Dallas heteroids, the bleeding ass cysts of humanity.

by Sad in Dallasreply 4305/26/2013

By Stephanie Pappas, LiveScience Senior Writer Published 05/23/2013 11:28 AM EDT on LiveScience

Between the faction of gay Christians who are happy with their sexual identity and "ex-gays," who say they've removed their homosexual yearnings, is a third group that gets little attention. These so-called Side B Christians identify as gay and believe it's not sinful to do so. But because they see acting on their orientation as ungodly, they commit to a life of celibacy.

Now, for the first time, a sociologist has taken an in-depth look at what makes Side Bs tick, particularly how they navigate their same-sex desires and their awkward position as stuck in the middle of ex-gay groups and content gay Christians. The study is small, but finds that Side Bs experience both tension and connection with these two groups. (The origins of the "Side B" term are foggy, but the terminology seems to come from the organization the Gay Christian Network, which labels gay Christians who do not see their sexuality as sinful as "Side A" and those who do as "Side B.")

"The networks overlap with these two groups very strongly, and they did often feel kind of caught in the middle, certainly," said study researcher S.J. Creek, a sociologist at Hollins University in Virginia. [5 Myths About Gay People, Debunked]

Christian and gay

The study of Side B Christians grew out of a larger research project by Creek looking into the lives of ex-gay Christians. This movement, which centers largely around the organization Exodus International, claims that same-sex desire can be stifled and that sexual orientation can be changed — hence the term "ex-gay." Numbers on ex-gay individuals are hard to come by, but Exodus International claims 3,000 people worldwide attend one of its ministry events each week.

In interviewing people who had sought help from ex-gay groups and then left, Creek found two distinct groups: Side As, who reconciled their sexuality with their religion and believe being gay and Christian is not contradictory; and Side Bs, who accept their orientation but commit to celibacy in order to remain in line with anti-homosexuality tenets.

"How each group thought about and acted on desire was different," Creek said.

For her new study, published May 13 in the journal Symbolic Interaction, Creek interviewed five Side B Christians about their emotions and interactions. Four of the interviewees were men and one was a woman; one of the men was married to a lesbian who also struggled with her desires.

Dealing with desire

The interviews revealed that desire was a complex problem for the Side Bs. "Allen," the 30-something man married to a lesbian, noted that he'd even had gay friends try to seduce him to test his limits. Such an experience is not uncommon among abstinent people, Creek wrote. [10 Milestones in Gay Rights History]

Admitting to same-sex desires is also a problem for Side Bs interacting with ex-gays, as the ex-gay philosophy holds that even homosexual desire is not OK. Creek's interviewees reported keeping their sexuality and their celibacy closeted in many cases.

"I tend to categorize myself as a gay, celibate Christian, but I am very hesitant using that [description] because in secular society, the word 'gay' means attracted to men, and in Evangelical Christian subculture, it means ‘sleeps with everybody ?ve days a week,’" said one interviewee, called "James" in the report. Dealing with the connotations of the term was often too much of a headache, James said, so he frequently kept the information to himself.

At other times, claiming a gay identity was a way to connect with other Christians, both gay and straight. "Erin," a celibate lesbian, told Creek she found a connection with married couples in her Orthodox Church who also tried to lead chaste lives. Allen told a story of a straight Christian retreat administrator who stood up for him, pointing out that Christian straight men and Christian gay men have similar struggles.

"Every day, Allen wakes up and looks around, and he sees guys he wants to have sex with — and he doesn't have sex with them because he's following Jesus," the male administrator said. "And every day, I wake up, and I see girls I want to have sex with — and I don’t have sex with them because I’m following Jesus. So, we’re both not getting any because we’re following Jesus."

The study can’t be generalized to Christian gays as a group, or even to celibate Christian gays, Creek said. Nor can it answer the burning question of who is happier: ex-gays, Side As or Side Bs.

"Ex-gays are always telling people why gays are deeply unhappy. And many gay activists are going to tell you why ex-gay activists are deeply unhappy," Creek said. "Every group seems to think the other group isn't quite as happy as they are."

However, the Side B Christians interviewed by Creek may place a different priority on their sexuality than outsiders might, Creek said.

"Their Christian identities are incredibly important to them, and they would be deeply unhappy if they felt they were compromising those identities," she said.

by Sad in Dallasreply 4405/26/2013

We can only help ourselves.

Perhaps if he saw how happy and comfortable and adjusted you are, OP, it might have more of an effect on him than anything else.

Live your life like you want to, and others MAY follow. If they don't, they don't.

by Sad in Dallasreply 4505/26/2013

[quote]"Every day, Allen wakes up and looks around, and he sees guys he wants to have sex with — and he doesn't have sex with them because he's following Jesus," the male administrator said. "And every day, I wake up, and I see girls I want to have sex with — and I don’t have sex with them because I’m following Jesus. So, we’re both not getting any because we’re following Jesus."

When did I say you couldn't get any?

by Sad in Dallasreply 4705/26/2013

If it were me, I would calmly and politely tell him that, in my opinion, that you can try and run from yourself but he'll always track you down.

by Sad in Dallasreply 4805/26/2013

OP, be happy you're rid of him. Who wants to do deal with an emotional mess of a person like that?

by Sad in Dallasreply 4905/26/2013

You could just simply say, "I understand your plight. I have the desire to be a "good" person, but my definition has outgrown that perception that a person has to be a eunuch in order to qualify as one."

That person isn't just a one-dimensional figure, they have complex emotions and interests. Appeal to their nature or desire for being "good" and ask them redefine what it means.

by Sad in Dallasreply 5005/26/2013

[all posts by ham-fisted troll a removed.]

by Sad in Dallasreply 5105/26/2013

I'll bet you didn't douche before he fucked you. See what you did!

by Sad in Dallasreply 5205/26/2013

Repent sinners, REPENT! and turn away from your sinful lifestyle or you will burn in the fires of hell for eternity!

by Sad in Dallasreply 5305/26/2013

They won't R53. Ex-gays are always users.

by Sad in Dallasreply 5405/27/2013

Relax OP, lots of people are just determined to be miserable by all the shitty choices they make. Be glad it isn't your life, and move on.

by Sad in Dallasreply 5505/28/2013

just wish him well. tolerance

by Sad in Dallasreply 5605/30/2013

WOW...this guy is a reformed homosexual preacher...

by Sad in Dallasreply 5706/17/2013

OP here. I found out that he founded his own group for men struggling with SGA (Same Gender Attraction). I don't plan on continuing our friendship, even at the minimal level it is at now.

by Sad in Dallasreply 5806/17/2013

... is bullshit.

by Sad in Dallasreply 6006/17/2013

I'm emotionally castrated and I'm not ex gay.

by Sad in Dallasreply 6106/17/2013

Thank you R2!!!!!! I am giving this to my gf ASAP.

by Sad in Dallasreply 6206/18/2013

An ex of mine is marrying a woman in a few months. He still sometimes sexts me. The wife really is the last to know.

by Sad in Dallasreply 6306/18/2013

Reply to 29: Well said, Michael. Are you off to St. Malachy's?

by Sad in Dallasreply 6607/11/2013

when i was heart broken and i need my ex lesbian partner back all i do was to contact this spell caster templeofvadoo@gmail.com and they he did a spell for me and my ex come back to me in 3days

by Sad in Dallasreply 6708/15/2013

hilarious

by Sad in Dallasreply 6808/15/2013

OH. MY. GOD.

I have been feeling like the world is going crazy. Does anyone else feel this way?

by Sad in Dallasreply 6908/16/2013

[quote]He's still gay. It's just that now he hates himself for it.

"Ex-gay" is nothing but code for "gay person who hates themselves for it."

One of my first girlfriends, in the same range of butchness as your average NFL linebacker, got pregnant with a guy fling in grad school, married him because "it's the right thing to do," moved to nowheresville, TN, found Jesus and has had 4 more kids with him.

The lengths people will go to just to avoid saying "I'm gay" to themselves or others is truly incredible and speaks to how internalized homophobia is for so many people.

by Sad in Dallasreply 7008/16/2013

By Sarah Pulliam Bailey | Religion News Service August 4 at 5:00 PM

When Julie Rodgers came out as a lesbian at age 17, her mom responded by taking her to an ex-gay ministry in Dallas. Rodgers had grown up in a nondenominational evangelical church where she assumed being gay wasn’t an option.

“With ex-gay ministries, it gave me the space to be honest about my sexuality,” said Rodgers, now 28. Yet that same honesty eventually led her away from ex-gay ministries.

Rodgers spent several years in Exodus, the now-defunct ex-gay ministry, before deciding she couldn’t become straight after trying to date men. Instead, she has chosen celibacy.When Exodus shut down in 2013, some said it spelled the end of ex-gay ministries that encourage reparative or conversion therapy for gays to become straight. Ex-gay groups such as Restored Hope Network stepped in to the gap, but many religious leaders are now encouraging those with same-sex orientation or attraction to consider a life of celibacy.

For years, those who were gay or struggled with homosexuality felt like they had few good options: leave their faith, ignore their sexuality or try to change. But as groups like Exodus have become increasingly unpopular, Rodgers is among those who embrace a different model: celibate gay Christians, who seek to be true to both their sexuality and their faith.

Straddling one of America’s deepest cultural divides, Vanessa Vitiello Urquhart wrote in a recent piece for Slate that celibate gay Christians present a challenge to the tolerance of both their churches and the secular LGBT community. Those celibate gay Christians often find themselves trying to translate one side for the other.When Exodus shut down in 2013, some said it spelled the end of ex-gay ministries that encourage reparative or conversion therapy for gays to become straight. Ex-gay groups such as Restored Hope Network stepped in to the gap, but many religious leaders are now encouraging those with same-sex orientation or attraction to consider a life of celibacy.

For years, those who were gay or struggled with homosexuality felt like they had few good options: leave their faith, ignore their sexuality or try to change. But as groups like Exodus have become increasingly unpopular, Rodgers is among those who embrace a different model: celibate gay Christians, who seek to be true to both their sexuality and their faith.

Straddling one of America’s deepest cultural divides, Vanessa Vitiello Urquhart wrote in a recent piece for Slate that celibate gay Christians present a challenge to the tolerance of both their churches and the secular LGBT community. Those celibate gay Christians often find themselves trying to translate one side for the other.But frequently, neither side really understands what it’s hearing.

“We can be easily misunderstood, to put it nicely, by both sides of the culture war,” Rodgers said. “For those who have a more affirming position, it’s as if we’re repressed, self-hated homophobes, encouraging the church to stand in its position on sexuality. And conservative Christians think that those who shift on sexuality are being rebellious.”

Moving from ex-gay

Christians’ shift away from ex-gay therapy came amid larger cultural changes, including a wider societal acceptance of homosexuality and a rapid embrace of same-sex civil marriage.

In 2009, the American Psychological Association adopted a resolution that mental health professionals should avoid telling clients that they can change their sexual orientation. Since then, California and New Jersey have passed laws banning conversion therapy for minors, and several other states have considered similar measures.Earlier this year, the 50,000-member American Association of Christian Counselors amended its code of ethics to eliminate the promotion of reparative therapy, and encouraged celibacy instead.

“Counselors acknowledge the client’s fundamental right to self-determination and further understand that deeply held religious values and beliefs may conflict with same-sex attraction and/or behavior, resulting in anxiety, depression, stress, and inner turmoil,” the revised code says.

A number of leaders of the ex-gay movement have renounced the very teachings they once embraced. John Paulk, who was once a poster boy for the ex-gay movement, apologized in 2013 for the reparative therapy he used to promote. Yvette Schneider, who formerly worked for groups such as the Family Research Council, Concerned Women for America and Exodus, recently published a “coming out” interview with GLAAD calling for bans on reparative therapy. Last week, nine former ex-gay leaders denounced conversion therapy.Mark Yarhouse, a Regent University psychology professor who has done research on ex-gay Christians, is just now beginning to study celibate gay Christians. “Evangelicals are so enamored with marriage, it’s been hard for them to value singleness and celibacy,” he said.

Some Christians left ex-gay ministries and eventually began to embrace a position that’s more affirming of gays and lesbians. Josh Wolff, a gay 2009 graduate of Biola University’s Rosemead School of Psychology who is now a licensed clinical psychologist, said he went to reparative therapy for nearly two years before fully embracing his sexuality.

“I’ve seen a real shift away from some of the language (that) you need to go to counseling, you can experience healing that can make you straight,” Wolff said. “When Exodus came forward and said ‘We’re sorry for some of the harm that we’ve done,’ I think it was a wake-up call to many members of faith communities that for the vast majority of people, these treatments don’t work.”

Rediscovering celibacy

Celibacy is a better trend for Christians than conversion therapy was, said Alan Chambers, who led Exodus before shuttering it last year.

“Celibacy is an age-old concept, so I think it’s a great option for a lot of people. People have been so afraid of it,” said Chambers, who has been married to his wife for 16 years. “The only option before it was to stay completely silent or adopt this ex-gay mentality.”

Some evangelicals mine Catholicism’s centuries-old tradition of celibacy, said Wesley Hill, a professor of New Testament at Trinity School for Ministry, who wrote “Washed and Waiting,” a 2010 book on being gay and celibate.

by Sad in Dallasreply 7108/05/2014

“They already have a rich history of celibacy that I had to discover as an evangelical,” Hill said. “Twenty years ago, being gay would be considered irredeemably bad, something to be delivered from or be changed. (Celibacy) leads me to form close bonds with friends, to have self-denial and sacrifice.”

Eve Tushnet, a 35-year-old whose book “Gay and Catholic” comes out in October, is fast emerging as a significant voice on sexuality and Catholic teaching.

“I felt like there’s a lot of things I don’t understand, but I can do my wrestling and doubting from within the church,” she said.

Tushnet grew up somewhere between agnosticism and Judaism, and when she became a Catholic in 1998, she didn’t know of other openly gay Christians who were following the church’s teaching on sexuality.

“Because marriage, the standard American solution to the problem of the human heart, is typically unavailable to gay Christians, we’ve had to confront loneliness earlier and more publicly than many of our peers,” she wrote in The American Conservative.

In a 2013 study in the journal Symbolic Interaction, Hollins University sociologist S.J. Creek found that celibate gay Christians tend to prioritize their sexuality differently than others might, unwilling to compromise their Christianity.

For some like Tushnet, the loneliness of celibacy has been tempered by communities such as Spiritual Friendship, a blog for celibate gay Christians. Hill co-founded the blog with Ron Belgau, who grew up Baptist and converted to Catholicism at 24. Belgau said celibacy was one of the things that attracted him to the Catholic Church. “The ex-gay message was appealing because the problem was solved and we didn’t need to talk about it,” said Belgau, who spent some time in the Catholic Church’s Courage ministry that encourages celibacy for gays and lesbians.

“If you realize that a lot of people will have an ongoing attraction to same-sex and can be kept secret, you have to deal with as a church how we’re going to talk about this. With the ex-gay message, we can farm this out and continue with our nuclear family model.”

Naming and claiming

The mere presence of self-identifying celibate gay Christians requires other Christians to wrestle with theological challenges, says Matthew Vines, author of “God and the Gay Christian: The Biblical Case in Support of Same-Sex Relationships.” Vines doesn’t promote sex outside of marriage but believes gay Christians can make a theological case for same-sex marriage.

“It’s a subtle but significant shift,” said Vines, who is openly gay, of celibate gay Christians. “They’re saying, ‘There’s nothing wrong with being gay in and of itself,’ and that is a big change.”

In fact, that’s the teaching of major religious traditions, including the Roman Catholic Church, the United Methodist Church and even the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons). Homosexuality only becomes sinful when a person chooses to act on it.

Moody Bible Institute professor Christopher Yuan has been countering progressive messages like Vines’ with a more traditional message of celibacy for those who, like him, are attracted to the same sex. In his book review of Vines’ book for Christianity Today, however, Yuan, too, took a harsh look at conversion therapy. “Sanctification is not getting rid of our temptations, but pursuing holiness in the midst of them,” Yuan wrote. “If our goal is making people straight, then we are practicing a false gospel.”

Some Christians are less eager to use the term “gay.” After Grady Smith’s widely shared article for the Gospel Coalition about coming out as a Christian while he worked for Entertainment Weekly, he also wrote a post about coming out as gay to other Christians. In an email, he said he regretted identifying as a “gay Christian” because of how it might define him as a person.

“I knew it was writerly and provocative and expressed attractions I’ve felt, and I hoped it was bridge-building,” he wrote. “But it in no way describes the life I am living — and I think most people interpret ‘gay’ to mean the cultural box of the gay, sexually expressed lifestyle.”

Some pastors, like John Piper, a respected Minneapolis preacher and author, still encourage the possibility of change for those who have same-sex attractions. And some Christians are debating over whether identifying as gay or having a same-sex orientation is itself unbiblical.

“My conclusion is that if sexual orientation is one’s enduring pattern of sexual attraction, then the Bible teaches both same-sex behavior and same-sex orientation to be sinful,” Denny Burk, a biblical studies professor at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, wrote in a blog post for the Southern Baptist Convention’s Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission.

Rosaria Butterfield, a former lesbian who rejects the “ex-gay” label and the movement behind it, disputes Burk’s interpretation of sexual orientation. “The Bible doesn’t speak against attraction,” said Butterfield, a mother of four whose conversion story went viral after it was published in Christianity Today. “It speaks against attraction that becomes lust.”While she affirms celibate gay Christians, she says they should not use “gay” as a descriptive adjective.

“The job of the adjective is to change the noun,” said Butterfield, who will speak at the Southern Baptist convention’s Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission’s fall conference on sexuality. “Our sexuality exists on a continuum, but our Christianity does not.”

by Sad in Dallasreply 7208/05/2014

The guy isn't 'living a lie' if he's not marrying a woman and pretending to her that he has never had sex with men. He's decided to stop relating to men sexually is all. Now we may make issue with catholic doctrine and hypocrisy on homosexual relationships, but what this guy is doing is no different to a straight woman becoming a celibate nun. She's not 'living a lie' , she's simply following the spiritual path that's right for her.

by Sad in Dallasreply 7308/05/2014

Maybe he just got some hot pussy. Maybe he's bi.

by Sad in Dallasreply 7408/05/2014

Very religious people are so very, very damaged.

by Sad in Dallasreply 7508/05/2014

Ex-Gay is nothing more than "back into the closet".

by Sad in Dallasreply 7608/05/2014

I shit in a cake pan, cover it with a Duncan Hines cake mix, bake and eat it.

by Sad in Dallasreply 7708/05/2014

Is he straight-acting?

by Sad in Dallasreply 7808/05/2014

Sorry forgot to sign my post.

by Sad in Dallasreply 7908/05/2014

OP- Well then, you're certainly better off with him because he is not happy with himself.

by Sad in Dallasreply 8008/05/2014

How come it's ok for Chaz / Chastity Bono to hate being a girl and turn into a male, but it's a crime for this guy to hate being gay and turning into a straight.

What the fact that despite what he claims he is still gay? The fact Chaz/Chastiy is still a woman despite her claims.

Odd logic.

by Sad in Dallasreply 8108/05/2014

Does Voice of the Night have an opinion?

by Sad in Dallasreply 8208/05/2014
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