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Broadway's Tony Injustices:

I will start: 2003 Best Actress in a Musical goes to Marissa Jaret Winokur in "Hairspray" over Bernadette Peters in "Gypsy."


What Tony Award upset still sting you?

No Patti jokes please. They wound people.

by Zak reply 17012/16/2014

Chita Rivera in "The Rink" over BP in "Sunday." I get it, they had to finally give it to Chita, who'd later deservedly win for "Kiss" but the two performances were not comparable. Rivera's turn is already forgotten while Peters' has grown infinitely in stature.

by Zak reply 107/28/2012

r1 Huh? Did you see Bernadette in Act 2 of SUNDAY. Was she playing MAMA'S FAMILY? Chita was fantastic as chief cook and bottlewasher

by Zak reply 207/28/2012

Agreed OP, that Hairspray girl whould hand that Tony over to Bernadette TODAY.

I am a bit miffed over Angela Lansbury's loss to Katie Finneran two seasons ago.

by Zak reply 307/28/2012

You can't catch a break if your name is Raul:

Ben Harney in Dreamgirls over Raul Julia in Nine - I was very underwhelmed by the acting in Dreamgirls.

Broadway Papi Raul Esparza has been robbed two times (IMO). He should have won on his first nom for Taboo, instead of boring Cerveris and again for Company. If it weren't for Geoffrey Rush he would have been deserving again for Speed The Plow.

The guy that won for La Cage a couple of years ago (can't remember his name) over every single actor in that category. One of the worst performances, tony winning or not, that I have seen in a musical. Just dreadful.

Ruth Brown won for Black and Blue, didn't she? That was another underwhelming night at the theater.

Frances de la Tour over Tyne Daly!!! The History Boys is a POS.

by Zak reply 407/28/2012

OP, did you by chance SEE Bernadette in Gypsy? It was painful. If she was a lesser name she wouldn't have even been nominated; she certainly didn't deserve it. The day I was there, the audience was bewildered at intermission, wondering why in the hell the director was thinking and she was doing. Just terrible.

by Zak reply 507/28/2012

Carol Channing for Hello, Dolly over Streisand in Funny Girl. Barbra got the last laugh, though.

by Zak reply 607/28/2012

Jennifer Ehle winning over Cherry Jones back in the year 2000 was all sorts of wrong.

Watch the clip from the 2000 Tony Awards that I am linking to from YouTube. When Cherry Jones' name is read as one of the nominees, the audience gives her the strongest response as though she had won and not just had her name read as one of the nominees.

by Zak reply 707/28/2012

Angela in A little Night Music?? No way, Katie Finneran deserved that award.

The three little Billy Elliot kids winning was another low for the Tonys. In fact, the best leading actor in a musical has made some really poor choices lately. The last truly great win was Paulo Szot for South Pacific.

by Zak reply 807/28/2012

Agree that Raul should have won for Taboo, if not him then Michael McElroy for Big River.

Olivo had no business winning for West Side Story. Gwynne or Martha Plimpton would have been better picks.

by Zak reply 907/28/2012

The original three Billies also won in London.

by Zak reply 1007/28/2012

Two Gentlemen of Verona winning for Best Musical instead of FOLLIES in 1972.

Avenue Q winning for Best Musical instead of Wicked in 2004.

Mary Martin winning for Best Actress in a Musical for The Sound of Music instead of Ethel Merman for Gypsy.

by Zak reply 1107/28/2012

Cherry Jones in DOUBT winning over Kathleen Turner for VIRGINIA WOLFF. Jones admitted later that Turner deserved it.

Boyd Gaines (a solid but unexceptional performance) in GYPSY over Daniel Breaker's astonishing tour-de-force in PASSING STRANGE.

The score for SPRING AWAKENING over the score for GREY GARDENS.

by Zak reply 1207/28/2012

Every single Tony won by MEMPHIS.

by Zak reply 1307/28/2012

No fan of Boyd Gaines but Passing Strange was just a horrid.

I am sure there was a worthy nominee that year.

by Zak reply 1407/28/2012

Forgot to mention that Danny Burstein in SOUTH PACIFIC was also way more deserving than Gaines.

Dan Fogler for SPELLING BEE. Obnoxious, mugging, shticky performance. Jose Lana was the one who should have been nominated.

by Zak reply 1507/28/2012

Peters was in way over her head with GYPSY and even she knows it. Winokaur was terrific in HAIRSPRAY and deserved the Tony.

by Zak reply 1607/28/2012

I was stunned this year when Philip Seymour Hoffman lost to some porcine British guy in some utterly forgettable performance. Ridiculous.

by Zak reply 1707/28/2012

Peters not being nominated for Follies was ridiculous. I've heard she was sometimes just not there vocally on some evenings, but I saw her in previews and she was heartbreaking as Sally.

Oh, and Two Gentlemen of Verona winning any Tony Awards. Seriously, that score with the exception of maybe three songs is just cringeworthy.

by Zak reply 1807/28/2012

The Phantom of the Opera beating Into the Woods.

by Zak reply 1907/28/2012

Betty Buckley Wining for "Drood"

by Zak reply 2007/28/2012

LaChanze winning for the dreadful The Color Purple instead of either Sutton Foster for The Drowsy Chaperone or Patti Lupone for Sweeney Todd.

by Zak reply 2107/28/2012

Say what you will, but I think they were very kind to give Glenn some recognition.

by Zak reply 2207/28/2012

CZJ! Nuff said.

by Zak reply 2307/28/2012

The reason I think Winokur really deserved it is that I think anyone playing Mama Rose has an innate advantage over anyone playing Tracy. Having seen hairspray with winokur and without, I can say her particular brand of humor elevated the piece monumentally. I later saw it with Harvey and someone else, who sang it better than Winokur and landed all the jokes and looked a decade younger, but it did not fly in the same way at all.

by Zak reply 2407/28/2012

r 20 WTF? Betty won for CATS. Not Drood. Move along...nothing to see here.

by Zak reply 2507/28/2012


that never happened

by Zak reply 2607/28/2012

That no show was worthy of winning Best Musical in 1997 ( Titanic, Steel Pier, The Life, Juan Darien).

by Zak reply 2707/28/2012

AS IS loses to yet another Neil Simon dindon.

by Zak reply 2807/28/2012

What do you mean, R28? TITANIC won Best Musical that year.

by Zak reply 2907/28/2012

Nine winning over Cats.

by Zak reply 3007/28/2012

Best Musical injustices:

The Music Man over West Side Story

Fiorello! (tying with Sound of Music) over Gypsy

1776 over Hair

by Zak reply 3107/28/2012

[quote] Nine winning over Cats.

Try again, R30. They each won, a year apart.

by Zak reply 3207/28/2012

What musical did Nine upset?

by Zak reply 3307/28/2012



by Zak reply 3407/28/2012

Dreamgirls, and deservingly so!

by Zak reply 3507/28/2012

1968: Alice Playten in "Henry, Sweet Henry" losing Best Featured Actress in a Musical to Lillian Hayman in "Hallelujah, Baby!"

by Zak reply 3607/28/2012

[quote] Nine winning over Cats.

If this had been true, it would have been justified. Cats is a steaming pile of dog shit.

by Zak reply 3707/28/2012

"The day I was there, the audience was bewildered at intermission, wondering why in the hell the director was thinking and she was doing."

So you speak for the whole audience in addition to all of the voices in your head?

by Zak reply 3907/28/2012

Best face ever was Lena Horne reading the BEST MUSICAL in the race between NINE and DREAMGIRLS. "And the winner is.....NINE"

by Zak reply 4007/28/2012

Bernadette AGYG winning over Carolee in PARADE

Didn't like parade, but Carolee was OUTSTANDING

Bernie was doing a completely different show than anyone else.

When they tied for the Drama Desk, Bernie was giving Carolee the stink eye while she was accepting

by Zak reply 4107/28/2012

Bernadette losing to the fat girl in Hairspray was a true Tony absurdity and Harrrvey beating Antonio Banderes that year turned the ceremony into an embarrassment.

by Zak reply 4207/28/2012

Tonya Pinkins should have won over both underwhelming Bern and fat girl.

by Zak reply 4307/28/2012

Cherry was brilliant in DOUBT. Kathleen was admirable but you have an edge if you create a role. PS> Cherry is always going to say the sporting thing.

by Zak reply 4407/28/2012

Oh, please, R38. Hello, Dolly! is one of the most beloved film musicals of all time. The critics and Broadway fanatics may not like it, but the general public adores the movie, as well as Streisand's performance.

Barbra stuck it to that corn-shitter for stealing her Tony.

by Zak reply 4507/28/2012

Peters was spectacularly good in GYPSY. It was a travesty that Miss Okra got it for being fat and singing loud.

by Zak reply 4707/28/2012

I love the Hello Dolly movie!

by Zak reply 4907/28/2012

A Chorus Line sweeping the Tony Awards in 1976 and shutting out Chicago.

by Zak reply 5007/28/2012

and, r50, Pacific Overtures (except for some minor awards).

by Zak reply 5107/28/2012

There are lots of injustices but Winokur and Olivo are particularly notable as their performances are the worst in their respective roles ever seen on Broadway. Also they were women in dance roles and neither of them could dance which Winokur went on to show us on TV as a DWTS loser. Though I would have preferred Peters over Winokur and Plimpton over Olivo, I would have settled for any of the nominees rather than the winners.

Most of the Tonys for Billy Elliott, Next to Normal, Smokey Joe's Cafe, Sunset Boulevard and Spring Awakening could have been given to more deserving nominees or just eliminating the category that year.

by Zak reply 5207/28/2012

Bonnie Franklin losing to Melba Moore in 1970.

by Zak reply 5307/28/2012

R48, Hello, Dolly was the 4th highest grossing picture in 1969. And it's found a huge audience on TV, who adore it.

Only Sound of Music, Grease and Funny Girl are more beloved.

by Zak reply 5407/28/2012

r31: Have you ever read the libretto for HAIR? It's dribble. Add to that the fact that the individual songs, while entertaining, do not advance any plot and the words are oftentimes meaningless:

"Singing our space songs on a spider web sitar Life is around you and in you Answer for Timothy Leary, dearie" -- Flesh Failures

The show was a gimmick -- the first hippie rock musical -- but certainly NOT worthy of awards.

by Zak reply 5507/28/2012

r44: You can't buck a nun.

by Zak reply 5607/28/2012

r53. I'm afraid I'm old enough to have seen Bonnike Franklin and Melba Moore -- the former was perfectly fine in a role many girls could've made extraordiinary. Melba MMoore sang thrillingly and got her laughs in the comedy scenes. ("His heart stopped BEATIN, didn't it?")

by Zak reply 5707/28/2012

Reba should have gotten a special award for AGYG.

Why the Brooke Shields WONDERFUL TOWN got a cast CD and the Reba AGYG did not is a travesty.

by Zak reply 5807/28/2012

Let's not forget that Winokur had Ricki Lake's performance in the original (and superior!) film of Hairspray as a template to study and copy.

by Zak reply 5907/28/2012

R29, the post said that no show was WORTHY of winning the Tony, but they HAD to give it to somebody.

by Zak reply 6007/29/2012

I did see Bernadette in Gypsy which is why I started the thread.

Glad to check back and see all these comments.

Always wondered why she didn't win for Sunday. (Second act not withstanding.)

by Zak reply 6107/29/2012

R55: for future reference, it's "drivel", not "dribble".

by Zak reply 6207/29/2012

Most movies that are "beloved" score better than 6.9 on IMDB and 47% on Rotten Tomatoes.

by Zak reply 6407/29/2012

Paula Porkhurst in Bam Bam - Story of a Woman winning over Gayle Bethesda Grinds for The Swollen Vagina Diaries in 1998. All kinds of WRONG!

by Zak reply 6507/29/2012

Saw both Merman and Peters in "Gypsy." Merman should have won, but "The Sound of Music" was a much bigger hit. Peters tried very hard, but just was not right for Mama Rose.

by Zak reply 6607/29/2012

Peters is one of the worst actors ever. She should win nothing in theater.

by Zak reply 6707/29/2012

My feelings exactly, r66. Bernadette wasn't horrible, but it was clear she was trying very hard. You saw the effort in every scene. It was proof that not every great performer can play every great part. It just wasn't a good fit.

On the other hand, after seeing the recent SUNDAY IN THE PARK WITH GEORGE, it was clear that Peters is irreplaceable as Dot. I kept wishing that she was up there instead of the other actress. Peters would have aced it all over again.

by Zak reply 6807/29/2012

Yet for all its many flaws, DOLLY holds up where the others don't.

It was the last hurrah for that era of musical filmmaking crafted by the great masters of the classic MGM & Fox musicals.

by Zak reply 6907/29/2012


THE SCOTTSBORO BOYS not coming in the season before to win the Tonys that MEMPHIS undeservedly got.

by Zak reply 7007/29/2012

You know, r168, I would have agreed with you re: Peters as Dot.

Melissa Errico (who is actually very Peters-esque) gave an INCREDIBLE Dot at the KC.

by Zak reply 7107/29/2012

[quote] Tonya Pinkins should have won over both underwhelming Bern and fat girl.

Bernadette vs. Marissa was 2003. Tonya Pinkins wasn't nominated that year - Caroline, or Change was 2004.

[quote] Most of the Tonys for Billy Elliott, Next to Normal, Smokey Joe's Cafe, Sunset Boulevard and Spring Awakening could have been given to more deserving nominees or just eliminating the category that year.

Smokey Joe's Cafe won 0 Tony Awards.

by Zak reply 7207/30/2012

[quote]I'm afraid I'm old enough to have seen Bonnike Franklin and Melba Moore -- the former was perfectly fine in a role many girls could've made extraordiinary. Melba MMoore sang thrillingly and got her laughs in the comedy scenes. ("His heart stopped BEATIN, didn't it?")

Me too. Franklin was good but anyone could have done that role. Not a big fan of PURLIE although I do like some of the songs. Melba Moore knocked it out of the park and deserved that Tony.

by Zak reply 7307/30/2012

Hello, Dolly! was one of the last pictures shot in the wonderful 70MM Todd-AO process.

You're IN the show with Todd-AO!!

by Zak reply 7407/30/2012

That "you can see her trying" was the argument John Simon used against Angela Lansbury's Rose. On the other hand, he loved Peters' interpretation of the role.

by Zak reply 7507/30/2012

Robert Duvall, Kenneth McMillan and John Savage all getting snubbed by the nominating committee for the original production of "American Buffalo". Truly a fucking crime.

And Geoffrey Rush winning over Thomas Sadoski a few seasons back. Rush was fucking boring, Sadoski was exhilarating.

by Zak reply 7607/30/2012

This year . . .

Bernadette Peters not being awarded her special Tony on camera.

The In Memoriam segment being shown during a commercial break.

by Zak reply 7708/01/2012

Franklin's turn in "Applause" is the same tiresome, overeager performance she's given all her life. Her rendition of the title number doesn't compare to Moore's "I Got Love."

by Zak reply 7808/01/2012

Yet Melba Moore would be unnoticeable in a green polyester cowlnecked sweater.

by Zak reply 7908/01/2012

I think Jane Houdydhell's loss for WELL was hard to swallow - but HISTORY BOYS was a juggernaut. I just hate seeing the Brits take these awards, especially against really great work by American unknowns.

by Zak reply 8008/01/2012

Well, Melba was one of the few to have smaller titties than Bonnie.

by Zak reply 8108/01/2012


I was so mad when he lost to DHP

by Zak reply 8208/01/2012

Not that I was there, but it seems strange in retrospect that Chita Rivera wasn't even nominated for West Side Story. Carol Lawrence was nominated but lost to Barbara Cook for The Music Man. The surprise isn't that Barbara Cook won, it's that she wasn't in the best actress category.

by Zak reply 8308/01/2012

I'd call Bonnie Franklin a cunt but she lacks the depth and the warmth.

by Zak reply 8408/01/2012

[quote]The surprise isn't that Barbara Cook won, it's that she wasn't in the best actress category.

I feel her pain.

by Zak reply 8508/01/2012

[quote]Only Sound of Music, Grease and Funny Girl are more beloved.

Funny Girl is more known than loved. People LOVE Singin' in the Rain, An American in Paris, even Gigi. Funny Girl is famous for putting Streisand over the top. For christ's sake, even Willie Wonka is loved more than Funny Girl.

by Zak reply 8608/01/2012

Ellen Barkin over Elizabeth Rodriguez

by Zak reply 8708/01/2012

R86, The average American has never seen Gigi or An American in Paris. Singin' in the Rain is not shown on TV that much anymore, either, so it's popularity has waned considerably. Funny Girl is on TV all the time, as is Hello, Dolly.

by Zak reply 8808/01/2012

Funny Girl is a piece of shit. Even Funny Lady has aged better than Funny Girl, with Streisand wearing her 1968 hairdos and make-up when she's pretending it's 1918.

The original stage musical is not very good. The movie's better, but only because it looks better.

And it's hardly "beloved," certainly not on a par with "Singin' in the Rain" or "The Wizard of Oz" or "Gigi."

by Zak reply 9008/01/2012

Why wasn't John Benjamin Hickey even nominated for Love! Valour! Compassion! ?

by Zak reply 9308/01/2012

Joe Mantello not winning best actor last year for The Normal Heart.

by Zak reply 9408/01/2012

R92 is psychotic! How is Wizard of Oz NOT a musical?

On what planet is it a FACT that Gigi and American in Paris are completely unknown outside of NYC?

BITCH PLEASE! You are talking out of your flabby, boil-ridden ass!

by Zak reply 9508/01/2012

[quote]Had the lead not been so shockingly miscast with someone so wrong for the part, it might have fared a little better, but still ... by December 1969 (when it was released) - the fat lady had sung for movie musicals.

Yet, two years later, "Fidder On The Roof" grossed 50 million.

"Cabaret", "Lady Sings The Blues" and "1776" came along the next year in '72, all fairly successful. And let's not forget "Grease".

I actually love the movie "Hair". Wrong movie for time. It's time had passed, yet had it been made years later, it might have succeeded as nostalgia. John Savage and Treat Williams..mmm.

by Zak reply 9608/01/2012

Seriously OP? Bernadette Peters is a good singer but SHE CAN'T ACT FOR SHIT! She was DREADFUL in that lousy "Method Gypsy" production. Her "Some People" was a mess! She just wandered all over the stage just "feeling" for her "motivation". Give me the tightly choreographed Tyne Daly version any day! She was awful in the rest of the show too. Like a Kewpie Doll with a hangover.

by Zak reply 9708/02/2012

Wasn't there some scandal about Nathan Lane turning down a Best Supporting Actor nomination for Love! Valour! Compassion! feeling he should be nominated for Best Actor?

And thereby letting John Glover win the Supporting award for the same play (which he deserved more than Nathan anyway).

And then maybe Nathan wasn't nominated at all? Or am I crazy?

by Zak reply 9808/02/2012


by Zak reply 9908/03/2012

Yeah, Fiddler, Cabaret and Lady Sings the Blues came along in the 1970s - but the movie musical was dying by that time, done in by Star!, Dolly, Paint Your Wagon, Dr. Doolittle and On a Clear Day. The success of Fiddler, Cabaret, and Lady Sings the Blues (and Jesus Christ Superstar and Grease) couldn't save the genre.

1776 was actually a flop. A big one.

When New York, New York couldn't make it, it was all over. There were little blips of success, like Victor, Victoria, and little blips of flops (like Little Shop of Horrors), but it wasn't till Chicago that the genre had really returned - and it still remains shaky.

by Zak reply 10008/03/2012

Yet to come to prove the musical might still have a pulse is "Les Miserables" with Hugh Jackman.

Unlike the travesty that was the film of "Phantom", this one could work.

by Zak reply 10108/03/2012

NYNY didn't make it because it was a piece of shit that ran over two and a half hours. Liza and DeNiro were almost as believeable a couple as Shelley Duvall and Jack Nicholson in "The Shining."

by Zak reply 10208/03/2012

Helen Lawson should have won for Coco. She replaced Kate Hepburn you know. Her performance was low-key--this was the first show where she didn't pass out before the second act.

by Zak reply 10308/03/2012

And there were shots in NYNY that either deliberately or unintentionally copied exact shots in Garland's "Star Is Born".

My guess is Scorsese was still so coked up at that point, he just plagiarized.

by Zak reply 10408/03/2012

[quote]My guess is Scorsese was still so coked up at that point...

shhooo wassh I!!

by Zak reply 10508/03/2012

Hello, sophisticated socialite or the Female Forrest Gump? Of course, they chose Mercedes Ruehl over moi.

by Zak reply 10608/03/2012

There was a resurgence in the 80s which was directly tied to music videos. "Footloose", "Flashdance", "Purple Rain". By the time "A Chorus Line" came along only a few years later, the concept of the quick cut music video had already pretty much run its course.

by Zak reply 10708/03/2012

You're all conveniently forgetting the HUGE success of Grease.

by Zak reply 10808/03/2012

Dorothy Loudon for "The Fig Leaves Are Falling.". That bitch Lansbury beat me twice.

by Zak reply 10908/03/2012

[r123] Helen Lawson rocks!! Helenesque will clear any clogged drain!!

by Zak reply 11008/03/2012

There's got. To be...

*** snort ***


by Zak reply 11108/04/2012

Grease was mentioned at r100, Olivia. You must be drunk again.

by Zak reply 11208/04/2012

Benajmin Walker and his sexypants should have been nominated for BLOODY BLOODY ANDREW JACKSON. Honestly didn't think Josh Gad or Norbert were anything special.

Also, same year - WAR HORSE winning over JESUSALEM was ridiculous.

by Zak reply 11308/04/2012

If Josh Gad hadn't been nominated, that Tony would have been all mine!

by Zak reply 11408/04/2012

The movie of Les Miz will work only if it is in 3-D and we get to see limbs being blown off. Cosette needs to show tit, and she and Marius must engage in hot sex. Only then can it be successful. Otherwise, Evita-like success.

by Zak reply 11508/04/2012

Did Hepburn win the Tony for Cocoa?

by Zak reply 11608/04/2012

Irene Bordoni over Marilyn Miller in 1929.

by Zak reply 11708/04/2012

No, R111, she lost to Lauren Bacall for "Applause," the "All About Eve" musicalization. She also won 10 years later for the musicalization of Hepburn's "Woman of the Year." I was surprised to learn that Bacall had not one but TWO Tonys for Actress in a Musical. I never took her for a singer.

by Zak reply 11808/04/2012

And don't forget Bacall's thrilling musical numbers in "The Fan".

by Zak reply 11908/04/2012

Bacall thrilling? I recall Michael Biehn in the pool as thrilling. I remember Maureen Stapleton, even with her role cut to shit, as thrilling.

Don't recall Bacall in "The Fan" as even competent.

Of course, I knew you were being ironic, weren't ya?

by Zak reply 12008/04/2012

Linda Ronstadt gave a high school caliber performance in "Pirates of Penzance" but if she hadn't insulted the awards committee by saying she never shows up for awards ceremonies, she might have taken the Tony. I think everyone was looking for any reason not to give it to Bacall again, especially for a performance widely thought to be a joke.

by Zak reply 12108/04/2012

Is "Applause" considered a good musical? Is it good enough to make into a movie? I can't name any songs from it.

by Zak reply 12208/05/2012

I can - Applause

by Zak reply 12308/05/2012

The Encores production a few seasons back simply proved what a piece of prehistoric shit "Applause" really is.

And keep that fucking Cantone off the stage, willya?

by Zak reply 12408/05/2012

The TV version of "Applause" is on YT. Thankfully, no Bonnie Franklin but unfortunately, Lauren Bacall is in it.

by Zak reply 12508/05/2012

Were the performers in "Oh, Calcutta!" really nude? Just how much nudity was there? Did any of you see it on Broadway?

by Zak reply 12608/05/2012

Patty Duke not even being nominated (featured actress)for her role as Helen in The Miracle Worker

by Zak reply 12708/05/2012

Danny Radcliffe gave the best performance of the year in H2S last year. Just watch Ms. Jonas to see that you need real charm and talent to make that role work.

by Zak reply 12808/05/2012

r128 he should have a least been nominated.

by Zak reply 12908/05/2012

I thought Radcliffe was better in EQUUS. He wasn't nominated for that, either.

by Zak reply 13008/05/2012

Remember when people thought the Tony committee was crazy not to nominate Peter Gallagher for GUYS AND DOLLS?

They certainly had foresight on that one.

by Zak reply 13108/06/2012


by Zak reply 13202/17/2013

Lee J. Cobb not winning for "Death of a Salesman"

Barbra Streisand not winning for "Funny Girl"

Kathy Bates not winning for "Night Mother"

by Zak reply 13302/17/2013

Another vote for Tonya Pinkins in Caroline, or Change losing to Idina Menzel.

Also, the lack of nomination for Melissa Van der Schyff in "Bonnie & Clyde". She was the best thing in the whole damn show, which should have been nominated over "Leap of Faith" to fill that final slot.

by Zak reply 13402/18/2013

Nine is a much better musical than Dreamgirls...

by Zak reply 13511/22/2014

I thought Bernadette Peters was just AWFUL in "Gypsy". as far as I saw, she got nothing right. Trying way too hard for her very limited acting skills. It was also a very poor match for her as far as the role goes too.

by Zak reply 13611/23/2014

Michael Cerveris losing Leading Actor in a Musical for "Sweeney Todd" to John Lloyd Young in "Jersey Boys."

by Zak reply 13711/23/2014

Why was Rose such a poor match for Peters? I think it was a poor match for her singing voice, but "stage mother" should be in her wheelhouse - she had one, after all.

by Zak reply 13811/23/2014

I thought Peters was terrific in Gypsy. Much, much better than the shouting cow was in the 2008 revival. (The only thing the cow had that was possibly better than BP's production was Laura Benanti, who looked more "stripper-esque" than Tammy Blanchard. Other than that, it was the same old tired Arthur Laurents production he'd already done - with better Roses - in the 70s and the 80s.

by Zak reply 13911/23/2014

The ugly cow Patty La Pone winning not one but two Tony awards, one for playing a screaming fascist badly and the other for basically playing herself: a horrific monstrous bulldozer.

by Zak reply 14011/23/2014

Cheets Rivera owns this thread: not even nominated for West Side Story, best supporting nom for Birdie (even though Rose is clearly the leading lady), losing to Donna "One Song" Mckechnie when she was nominated for creating Velma fucking Kelly in Chicago, losing to her NINE cast-mate Krakowski, and then losing to La Chanze (who barely showed up for half the run) in Color Purple.

Her win for The Rink was a token nod....Hard to believe that and Spider Woman are her only wins.

by Zak reply 14111/23/2014

Re: Bernadette's Gypsy loss. That one was heartbreaking. I will say, I got to see her performance during previews and then again late in her run - I think 2 or 3 mos before the show closed. The experiences were night and day. I ADORE Bernadette. Adore her, but the performance I saw in previews was a bit of a mess. She hadn't found the heart of the character yet and, yes, she was having vocal issues after, I believe, having a really nasty case of the flu. The vocal issues are sometimes unavoidable. But, I have to imagine the not-quite-there acting performance was down to Mendes' direction. When I saw her late in the run, I was pleasantly surprised at how great her performance had become. The voice was 100% there and, perhaps more importantly, she owned the role. It was a smart, funny, sexy and at times absolutely chilling performance. It's too bad it took a while to get there. I imagine Tony voters did not see the performance I did my second time around.

I did feel bad for the Hairspray chick. Didn't they announce the award immediately after Bernadette's showstopping Rose's Turn performance? Clearly, that placement was deliberate with the producers assuming Peters would win. Must not have a been a total delight to accept the Tony right after that knock out from Bernie.

by Zak reply 14211/23/2014

Liz Callaway(Baby) losing to Lila Kedrova(Zorba) in 1984.

by Zak reply 14311/23/2014

Bacall deserved the Tony for Applause, the win for Woman of the Year was pure luck, it was a weak year for nominations in her category.

by Zak reply 14411/23/2014

"Sunday" and "Move On" are good songs, but the rest of the show is a total snooze, R145. Many said so off the record, and even Fosse told an interviewer that it was a boring experience for most people.

La Cage may be populist, but it worked like gangbusters then and now, and Jerry's score deserved that nod.

by Zak reply 14611/27/2014

[quote]Carol Channing for Hello, Dolly over Streisand in Funny Girl. Barbra got the last laugh, though.

By shoving her through a plate glass window just to watch her bleed?

That was Lillian Gish, not Carol Channing.

by Zak reply 14711/27/2014

R146 - I'm sure many people did and still do find the score boring and while those two songs are the standouts, I hardly think they're the only thing going for it. It's seriously one of the most beautiful things Sondheim's composed. I mean, the opening title song, "Finishing the Hat", "Color and Light", "Children and Art". There is such timeless beauty there. The only song that sounds dated to me now is the very 80s (or even 70s by some standards) "Putting it Together".

"La Cage" on the other hand is rather dated at this point. As most of Herman's work is. It's still wonderful old-fashioned musical comedy, but I don't know that it will stand the test of time the way that Sunday will.

by Zak reply 14811/27/2014

The child is so sweet.

And the girls are so rapturous.

Isn't it lovely how

Artists can capture us?

by Zak reply 14911/27/2014

In 50 years, people will still go to La Cage and exit feeling good and energized. Meanwhile Sunday will be remembered as a nice period piece, geared to those who imagine themselves to be sophisticates.

by Zak reply 15011/27/2014

I've seen every musical that's played on on Broadway since summer 1993, and bar none the loudest roar I ever heard was in the most recent LA CAGE revival when Kelsey Grammer went in for the kiss during the final moments of the show: cheering, foot stomping, whistling, no laughter. Is there anything that can even remotely compare to that in Sunday?

by Zak reply 15111/27/2014

[quote]When New York, New York couldn't make it, it was all over. There were little blips of success, like Victor, Victoria, and little blips of flops (like Little Shop of Horrors), but it wasn't till Chicago that the genre had really returned - and it still remains shaky.

One could argue that the Disney Renaissance of the 1990s brought movie musicals back. THE LITTLE MERMAID, BEAUTY AND THE BEAST, ALADDIN, THE LION KING, POCAHONTAS, THE HUNCHBACK OF NOTRE DAME, HERCULES, MULAN are after all musicals, wherein the characters burst into song. In the '60s, '70s and '80s, Disney animated films were cheaply made via Xerox (which is why they have that sketchy look) and the films didn't include singing, unless it was a voice-over. The MERMAID came along and revitalized, not only DIsney animation, but the movie musicals as well, IMO.

by Zak reply 15211/27/2014

[There is nothing more tedious than a race baiting troll. Except the people that talk to it.]

by Zak reply 15311/27/2014

R148: I think i've posted this another thread, sorry, but funniest thing (sort of) I've ever heard re "Sunday....George": I worked in a entertainment law firm in the mid to late '80's, in NYC, and a woman who worked there - Jewish, nice; "saw everything", as I did, mentioned that a (straight) couple she knew actually BROKE UP over "Sunday"! The woman loved it; the guy hated it.

Hee-hee! breaking up over a show - oi vey...

by Zak reply 15411/28/2014

Patti LuPone: Anything Goes and Sweeney Todd.

by Zak reply 15511/28/2014

That defective Russian, Natasha Markarova, winning for "On Your Toes" over Twiggy in "My One and Only". No one does that little lost flapper bit better than Lesley Hornby.

by Zak reply 15611/28/2014

by the way Patty Duke beat Barbara Streisand for the Golden Globe Award that year. Patty for Me Natalie over Barbara in Hello Dolly

by Zak reply 15711/28/2014

How were those two performances in the same category?

by Zak reply 15811/28/2014

I saw Sunday twice.

I went to see it twice because the first time I thought it was a pretentious pile of shit. The second time I saw it it really was. And Peters though good in act 1 in the second act gave what is one of the worst performances I've ever seen on Broadway.

Two Gentlemen was sensational but I was in shock that Follies didn't win. One of the most sublime things you could ever see.

Pacific Overtures too should have won. Glorious. But how do you buck something as silly and popular as Chorus Line? Bennett's staging and that original cast though were truly wonderful.

Concerning Martin in SOM did you see her? I had an older friend who was a total culture vulture. He saw Martin in the show which I was surprised at as it didn't seem his kind of thing but he said she was incandescent in it. Andrews should have won an Oscar for the movie.

by Zak reply 15911/28/2014

Aaron Tveit not being nominated for Next to Normal or Catch Me If You Can.

by Zak reply 16011/29/2014

Sunday in the Park with George will be played long after La Cage's last breath.

by Zak reply 16111/29/2014

nice try, R161. Sunday's never amaged a particularly decent run. La Cage has.

by Zak reply 16211/30/2014

Completely agree about Tonya Pinkins losing to shrieking Idina Menzel.

"Lot's Wife" says more about the pain of discrimination than any other song I've heard. Makes "Rose's Turn" seem like petty bitching.

And Tonya Pinkins acted her heart out.

by Zak reply 16311/30/2014

I'm not trying, r162. I'm predicting in the future. Just having fun. Nice try trying to make people feel bad for having fun and stating an opinion.

by Zak reply 16411/30/2014

Stockard Channing's Ouisa losing to Mercedes Ruehl's brain-damaged dame. Ruehl was very good, but Channing was sensational.

War Horse winning Best Play (my sides!) over Jerusalem, Motherfucker with the Hat and Good People. I still remember all the other nominees cause that win was and is so egregious.

And Kathleen Chalfant should have won for Angels in America.

On the musical front...

The Full Monty getting bulldozed by the juggernaut that was The Producers, possibly the most overrated show to sweep the Tonys.

Memphis. Oy.

by Zak reply 16512/16/2014

I still can't dance, peoples!!

by Zak reply 16612/16/2014

I like Sondheim but "Sunday" is truly a bizarre and terrible show. The second act is just goofy in its attempt to portray the contemporary art world. And the pointillist Seurat's muse being named "Dot" was just too too much. I could never get past that to take the show seriously. Sondheim does best when his work takes place in an entirely fantastic world ("Into the Woods," "Sweeney Todd") and not when he takes on anything remotely contemporary or historical ("Company," "Assassins.")

by Zak reply 16712/16/2014

Peters with her kewpie-doll voice was completely wrong for GYPSY.

She sucked the drama out of the room.

by Zak reply 16812/16/2014

OP, did you actually see both Winokur in Hairspray and Peters in Gypsy or are you just a starfucker who is incensed that a young woman giving a generally acclaimed performance won over a big Broadway star who's performance got very mixed reviews?

by Zak reply 16912/16/2014

Have to agree with Phantom beating Into the Woods. That year, Into the Woods deservedly won best book of a musical and best score of a musical.

The only way a show can have the best book and best score and not be the best musical is if the production really sucked.

Which the original production of Into the Woods most certainly did not.

by Zak reply 17012/16/2014
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