What are your associations with this country?
|by Anonymous||reply 207||12/30/2012|
Is this MI5 asking?
|by Anonymous||reply 1||07/15/2012|
Both sets of grandparents were born there and moved to the U.S. in their teens.
|by Anonymous||reply 2||07/15/2012|
|by Anonymous||reply 3||07/15/2012|
My company is based out of The Netherlands.
|by Anonymous||reply 4||07/15/2012|
Tulips, cheese, bicycles, dykes, weed, stubbornness.
|by Anonymous||reply 5||07/15/2012|
I lived there for 9 years so I'll give a list:
invariably grey, rainy, cool climate, perfect of growing cabbages and dairy
a society tightly oriented towards consensus, all members being required to do their part, even disent being registered and being agreed upon
A culture where honesty is valued, almost to a fault. You tell your wife about your affair, no doubts, you just do it. Still, not being asked to disclose the truth sometimes occurs, it's good business.
Crowds - the west of the country is the most-thickly populated region in the west
Music. A society that places a huge value on live performances of all sorts from rock festivals to contemporary experimental stuff to classics to Andre Rieu.
Flatness. So flat that every single person, young, old, tall or small, rides a bicycle, To work, play and just to ride, every day, rain or shine.
All of the above disappear when the Dutch move abroad.
|by Anonymous||reply 6||07/15/2012|
I heard the Netherlands is having a real problem with newer immigration and the resulting, skyrocking crime rates.
|by Anonymous||reply 7||07/15/2012|
It's such an unfortunate name for a country.
|by Anonymous||reply 8||07/15/2012|
the Official name is "the Kingdom of the Netherlands"
Is that better?
|by Anonymous||reply 9||07/15/2012|
r6, what about the enormous cocks?
|by Anonymous||reply 10||07/15/2012|
[quote]I heard the Netherlands is having a real problem with newer immigration
We welcome you to 1971, R7. Please remember to iron your orange Orlon flairs.
|by Anonymous||reply 11||07/15/2012|
The nederlanders so often have a rotund jovial Queen. Their cleanliness is enough to love them. They are the the largest/as in tall, people on the planet. (this is do to there always being a chance the dykes might fail) One could live in any of their cities and never leave without ever feeling they have missed the world. The secret of eternal youth is shared by all nederlanders. The netherlands is home to the healthiest gay people on Earth. If one is so lucky as to have a straight or gay netherlander fall in love with one, their happiness will last an eternity. London is the heart of the western world, Amsterdam is the brain of the western world.
|by Anonymous||reply 12||07/15/2012|
R12, don't you have London and Amsterdam switched around?
|by Anonymous||reply 13||07/15/2012|
Played to death on every tired gay bar's playlist I ever went to in the 90's.
|by Anonymous||reply 14||07/15/2012|
How's the gay scene? Are masculine gay prostitutes available in the infamous red light district?
|by Anonymous||reply 15||07/15/2012|
I was going to say "tall people" but R12 beat me to it. The Dutch are extremely tall. I was at the Getty the other day, and there was a large group of people speaking a Germanic language. I figured they were Dutch because all the men and women, even the teenagers, must've been 6' and over, towering over all of us in line. Someone had asked if they were German and they replied the they were Dutch.
Also, Dutch and Frisian sound like English spoken backwards. ;-)
|by Anonymous||reply 16||07/15/2012|
Amber--one of that country's greatest gifts to the dance charts/ Went from gay clubs to top 40 radio.
|by Anonymous||reply 17||07/15/2012|
Serbs are taller than the Dutch, now and the gay scene in Amsterdam isn't what it was - nor for that matter is the famed Dutch tolerance. In fact, the Dutch could show the Germans a thing or two about bureaucracy and obstinacy.
I still like them enough, but living and working there is a different matter from visiting there.
|by Anonymous||reply 18||07/15/2012|
Love it now that I don't live there anymore.
|by Anonymous||reply 19||07/15/2012|
I thought that Montenegrins were the tallest people in Europe now.
|by Anonymous||reply 20||07/15/2012|
Wouldn't you like a wooden shoe?
|by Anonymous||reply 21||07/15/2012|
Poffertjes, pot, and that little Jewess and her secret hide-out.
|by Anonymous||reply 22||07/15/2012|
The nether region
|by Anonymous||reply 23||07/15/2012|
[quote] The netherlands is home to the healthiest gay people on Earth.
and where do you get that tid-bit from?
|by Anonymous||reply 24||07/15/2012|
[quote]If one is so lucky as to have a straight or gay netherlander fall in love with one, their happiness will last an eternity.
on, MY! far cry from my experiences, so sorry. Romance in the sense we usually refer to today is non-existant in the Netherlands. Nice people, honest, but not giving or romantic in any way or manner. there are exceptions, but they run very very few and far between. Go to Belgium if you want Romance in a Northern form.
|by Anonymous||reply 25||07/15/2012|
Their directness can be a bit jarring, even for people from the northeast U.S.
|by Anonymous||reply 26||07/15/2012|
My associations, based on 3 visits: amazingly clean cities, and a remarkably casual attitude towards sex. And incredibly practical people. (they shut down bordellos in the red light district not for any morality reasons, but because of their connections to trafficking rings.)
We had a Dutch tour guide who had a remarkably subtle, dry wit; don't know if that's true of the larger population or not.
|by Anonymous||reply 27||07/15/2012|
I spend a fun night at Thermos Spa in Amsterdam with many hamdsome Dutch men and their big, perfectly uncircumcised cocks.
|by Anonymous||reply 28||07/15/2012|
[quote]Their directness can be a bit jarring, even for people from the northeast U.S.
there is almost no comparison with the North Americans, or any Americans.
She - does this dress make me look fat
He - yes
She - Okay
|by Anonymous||reply 29||07/15/2012|
[quote]We had a Dutch tour guide who had a remarkably subtle, dry wit; don't know if that's true of the larger population or not.
yup, drier than dry.
|by Anonymous||reply 30||07/15/2012|
I want to hear more about these big, uncut Dutch cocks. I've heard from more than a few many are quite well-endowed.
|by Anonymous||reply 31||07/15/2012|
R31. It's worth the trip.
|by Anonymous||reply 32||07/15/2012|
Continental Europeans (except Italians and Poles) are not exactly fond of Americans these days.
|by Anonymous||reply 33||07/15/2012|
"She's in the attic!"
|by Anonymous||reply 34||07/15/2012|
Everyone is tall. Lots of bicycles.
|by Anonymous||reply 35||07/15/2012|
R33, that's not true.
R31, the Dutch men are for the most part genetically very uniform, except for the colonials who are obviously different looking. The Dutch men are uniformly tall, thin, hairless, blond but not always, about half and half, and have very very thick bullet-shaped uncut cocks, though if you search you'll find one that is cut for medical reasons. Perfect cocks for butt-fucking as the head is smaller in girth than the shaft.
|by Anonymous||reply 36||07/15/2012|
It's better than Denmark or The UK, bitches.
|by Anonymous||reply 37||07/15/2012|
|by Anonymous||reply 38||07/15/2012|
They are the most well travelled nation on earth, and make Americans look like rubes. No one travels more than the dutch. Their generous holiday allowance assists with this but it's a cultural thing. Maybe because their own country is somewhat dull and claustrophobic, the weather depressing, and it lacks spectacular scenery. For example, as soon as you cross into Belgium you see (despite all the ugliness) examples of the kind of bravura architecture that Catholicism and a vast empire raping the resources of Africa can produce. If you looked at Holland architecturally, you would hardly believe they ever had an empire. Part of it is due to their legendary parsimony, which makes the Scottish look positively spendthrift. Dutch people will save wherever possible, right down to the Queen, who is famous for the linoleum in her palace back passages.
|by Anonymous||reply 39||07/15/2012|
[quote]No one travels more than the dutch.
this is true
[quote]. Maybe because their own country is somewhat dull and claustrophobic, the weather depressing, and it lacks spectacular scenery
pretty much, and colonialism
[quote] to their legendary parsimony
Ah, yes. well, the expression "Going dutch" is apt. NO ONE pays for someone else. Wives and husbands will pay separately
[quote]the Queen, who is famous for the linoleum in her palace back passages
pretty much, and she's rumored to be quite wealthy because of this.
|by Anonymous||reply 40||07/15/2012|
The women: it's very hard to gauge if a Dutch woman is straight or gay (many are androgynous and dress very well). Equally, the Netherlands is the first country where I've seen a woman cycling to work wearing shocking red high heels. Generally, women dress well no matter their size, sexuality, or profession.
Business: While the Netherlands is laid back and liberal, making money and housing multinationals is a big thing.
Anti-American: I experienced anti-American sentiment - a black Dutch woman thought I was American and treated me with contempt all day (I'm not American, and she was quite different with me when she discovered that fact).
Seediness: lots of areas are seedy, bland or a bit dumpy. (The red light districts are not nice and continues to exploit the sex slave trade).
Accents: when speaking English, many Dutch people have an American affectation - this is because English-speaking TV shows are not dubbed.
|by Anonymous||reply 41||07/15/2012|
Brother-in-law is Dutch. He's 6'3.
|by Anonymous||reply 42||07/15/2012|
"she's rumored to be quite wealthy because of this"
and not, one supposes, due to being heir to the Orange-Nassau wealth or a stockholder in a little company called Royal Dutch Shell.
|by Anonymous||reply 43||07/15/2012|
|by Anonymous||reply 44||07/15/2012|
[quote]Anti-American: I experienced anti-American sentiment - a black Dutch woman thought I was American and treated me with contempt all day
this was an anomaly.
|by Anonymous||reply 45||07/15/2012|
There's a lot of cynicism and resignation about the government. No politicians of vision since the murder of Pim Fortyn who, with straight talking, took the lid off the pressure cooker that decades of terrible consensus politics had created. Suddenly the dutch were able to talk about issues that consensus had suppressed discussion of. The most pressing of course being immigration and integration. The dutch adored Pim: the UK and US media dumbed him down as a racist, whereas he was about integration and the rejection of cultural equivalency - especially as a gay man confronting Islam.
The dutch say "it's gone black" with reference to a school or suburb being overtaken by Moroccans and Turks. It's the former who dutch will moan to you are "the real problem" when it comes to crime and lack of integration, and there's high levels of distrust. White flight began in the 60s, and now Amsterdam and Rotterdam and the other major cities are all approaching 'black' majorities. So to experience proper Holland you have to go to the new cities and villages.
It's funny people saying Amsterdam is tidy: compared to the 50s it's unkempt. Before the migrants arrived and the native dutch fled, the dutch fraus would scrub the pavements outside their homes, and the cities had a Swiss cleanliness. All that's gone.
What I find most appealing about the dutch is their level headedness, common sense, and dry humour. What's most annoying is their stinginess, lack of flair, stolidness, and truly unspeakable food.
|by Anonymous||reply 46||07/15/2012|
Any country with "THE" in front of its name is an asshole country
The Congo The Gambia The Netherlands The Ukraine
|by Anonymous||reply 47||07/15/2012|
And, as R46 so unselfconsciously illustrates, they can be remarkably racist.
|by Anonymous||reply 48||07/15/2012|
[quote]The dutch say "it's gone black" with reference to a school or suburb being overtaken by Moroccans and Turks.
don't forget the icky habit of the Dutch to nationally celebrate black-face once a year on Sinterklaas Dag where blond white Dutch girls dress up as black-faced moors who whip bad children and thrown candies. Nothing shows racial insensitivity better.
|by Anonymous||reply 49||07/15/2012|
2/10 of 1% of the U. S. population has New Amsterdam (New Netherlands) ancestry. My DNA is chock full of the stuff.
|by Anonymous||reply 50||07/15/2012|
Swedes out-travel the Dutch.
|by Anonymous||reply 51||07/15/2012|
I've got several New Amsterdam (New York) ancestors from the 1600s.
|by Anonymous||reply 52||07/15/2012|
Our sex life dropped by about 90% the day we moved from LA to Amsterdam.
It is truly 'the land of no sex'. We would never live again in such a place.
|by Anonymous||reply 53||07/15/2012|
R47, it is Ukraine, not "the" Ukraine. I do hope you are not from the US.
|by Anonymous||reply 54||07/15/2012|
It is actually "The Ukraine", r54. At least here in Europe.
Consider yourself corrected.
|by Anonymous||reply 55||07/16/2012|
People could say the same about New York, Mrs. PC. When gays are everywhere available, there is less need and urgency about dating.
|by Anonymous||reply 56||07/16/2012|
They have an excellent healthcare system, the best in all of Europe, in terms of quality. I'd be curious to know what the food is like. Are they a friendly people? If I go there to live will they be nice to me and invite me for Christmas? Do they drink a lot? How is the suicide rate? Does the sun ever shine? Is there much pollution? Street crime?
|by Anonymous||reply 57||07/16/2012|
R55. It is Ukraine, officially. In Europe, too. Only ignoramuses persist with 'the Ukraine' while the rest of the world passes them by.
Consider yourself pitied.
|by Anonymous||reply 58||07/16/2012|
r55, no, it is simply "Ukraine." Drop the topic.
Travelled to Amsterdam and the Netherlands several times from 1973-2000.
I thoroughly enjoyed seeing the smaller towns and cities such as Alkmaar, Marken, Delft, etc.
Loved the architecture of Amsterdam, its fabulous art museums (seeing "The Beanery" will always be a highlight, never mind the Rembrandts and Van Goghs!),its parks and canals.
But the last time I thought A'dam was dirtier than ever (talking about litter-wise). Was even disappointed in the Rijstaffel I had, maybe because the restaurant was on the second floor of a McDonald's, with a GAP store across the way.
IOW, the city, which had been almost quaintly Blue-Delft-and-wooden-shoe-souvenirs Dutch, had become generic.
Used to lug home huge copper kettles and pots from one of the famous flea-markets, but even that had lost its allure, giving way to crappy purses, CDs, and other flotsam.
I loved walking everywhere, but when I fell in the street and had an equally-good chance of being hit by a tram, a car, and a bike, my affection dissipated.
|by Anonymous||reply 59||07/16/2012|
[quote]Any country with "THE" in front of its name is an asshole country
[quote]The Congo The Gambia The Netherlands The Ukraine
...The United States.
|by Anonymous||reply 60||07/16/2012|
Hate Amsterdam. The smaller cities like Haarlem, Delft or Dordrecht are far nicer.
Rotterdam was like going to Queens. Ugliest post-war architecture I've ever seen.
|by Anonymous||reply 61||07/16/2012|
We enjoyed the largest piece of un-cut sizemeat in our entire life in 1996 in Amsterdam - from a reasonably hot young number(a fish-fucker) who actually PAID us!
It was BIGGER than our arm - we have seen nothing like it before or since. Sadly, he would not 'seed' us and demanded we (try to) put a rubber on it. : - (
So we sucked him off instead.
|by Anonymous||reply 62||07/16/2012|
Brusque, strapping women with no social graces.
|by Anonymous||reply 63||07/16/2012|
I've been to Amsterdam. The language is weird as hell, but the people are very friendly and the gay scene is big. I liked it.
|by Anonymous||reply 64||07/16/2012|
[quote]Rotterdam was like going to Queens. Ugliest post-war architecture I've ever seen.
Guess you haven't been to Oslo then..
|by Anonymous||reply 65||07/16/2012|
I lived there for 3 years. It's crowded. People keep to themselves. Keeping up with the De Jongs, or at least looking like you are keeping up with the De Jongs is very important. The coffee is amazing. Dogs shit everywhere, but there are machines to come and suck it up once a week. TV consists of American subtitled movies in the evening and a bunch of people sitting around tables speaking about politics during the day.
|by Anonymous||reply 66||07/16/2012|
Don't the Dutch have large rather odd shaped heads with course rather lumpy features, or is that the Belgians?? I'm not talking about the cocks either..though I have heard they are large and whale shaped.
|by Anonymous||reply 67||07/16/2012|
I grew up in a small town in Western Canada with a lot of Dutch people. They had immigrated there in the 1960s and purchased farms and opened grocery stores and bakeries and so on. Nice, warm, friendly people. But they tended to stick together and be very insular. They all went to the same Reformed church and even started a private church-based school for their children. A lot of the girls dropped out of school when they were 16 or got pregnant and worked at home. Generally, they were seen as slightly odd, honest, industrious, insular, rural folk.
Anyway, it wasn't until I traveled to the Netherlands that I saw how non-religious, sophisticated, and worldly Dutch people in the Netherlands were. In the cities, anyway. So different from their country mouse cousins in North America.
|by Anonymous||reply 68||07/16/2012|
Oh, and there were a few Catholic Dutch families in town too. They were considerably more fun and open and "Dutch"
|by Anonymous||reply 69||07/16/2012|
I want to return and get a bucket of their beautiful diamonds.
|by Anonymous||reply 70||07/16/2012|
Realize that a lot of the Europeans which immigrated to North America, were the religious wackos, who were basically kicked out of Europe.
This is why so many cult like religious freaks exist in North America. When you go over to Europe today, you find the people much more evolved.
|by Anonymous||reply 71||07/16/2012|
Odd that a nation whose tolerance stretches back to the 17th century should have given rise to the Afrikaner, the Dutch-descended originators of apartheid. If you have ever met an Afrikaans person, you will find absolutely nothing to relate them to the Dutch. It would be like comparing an uneducated inbreed French speaker from Canada's back woods with a sophisticated Parisian.
|by Anonymous||reply 72||07/16/2012|
As well as tolerance, a lot of religious movements sprang up in the Netherlands during the Reformation.
|by Anonymous||reply 73||07/16/2012|
[quote]They have an excellent healthcare system, the best in all of Europe, in terms of quality.
[quote]I'd be curious to know what the food is like.
Horrible. Absolutely horrible.
[quote]Are they a friendly people? If I go there to live will they be nice to me and invite me for Christmas?
No, they don't want you either.
[quote]Do they drink a lot?
A little more than the French but less than the Germans, English, and Scandinavians.
[quote]How is the suicide rate?
About like that of the surrounding countries.
[quote]Does the sun ever shine?
Only once in a while.
[quote]Is there much pollution?
Compared to large American cities, no.
|by Anonymous||reply 74||07/16/2012|
[quote] I'd be curious to know what the food is like. Are they a friendly people?
the food is negligible, bread and cheese. They would happily eat intravenously if they could that there is so little joy in eating. Indonesian food is a pleasant import.
They are not friendly, they are not warm. The meter is always running. You want friends, you look really really hard for them. A very closed-off society.
|by Anonymous||reply 75||07/16/2012|
[quote]I loved walking everywhere, but when I fell in the street and had an equally-good chance of being hit by a tram, a car, and a bike, my affection dissipated.
it's the most thickly-populated part of the western world, you watch yourself, you're not in Kansas anymore, Toto.
|by Anonymous||reply 76||07/16/2012|
Was in Amsterdam last month. It's pretty much Disneyland for 20 year old straight males. With Weed Coffee Shops and Hookers... they come from all over Europe to indulge. Was amazed to see so many bicycles and not a single helmet.
|by Anonymous||reply 77||07/16/2012|
Street crime is mainly only is the big cities and consists almost entirely of very very skilled pick-pockets.
|by Anonymous||reply 78||07/16/2012|
My great grandmother was born there. Visited several years ago. Lovely place. A must see for anyone.
|by Anonymous||reply 79||07/16/2012|
The food in Amsterdam is very good, certainly much better than here in Barcelona(ugh) or the UK(ugh ugh) or ireland(ugh ugh ugh).
|by Anonymous||reply 80||07/16/2012|
MPC MUST be referring to semen as alimentation as the food in Amsterdam is the worst, fewer michelin stars than anywhere else, and the dining out is simply, drab. There are many wonderful things to see, and some street food (herring!) is nice but the cuisine is non-existent.
|by Anonymous||reply 81||07/16/2012|
We prefer good value solid Dutch cuisine and never waste our money on 'Michelin stars' (LOL) - only fools do that, unless someone else is paying. We prefer to put our money into real estate and stocks.
|by Anonymous||reply 82||07/16/2012|
It is so revealing as to the degree of stupidity that saturates the few on Datalounge. The article "the" is not pare of the name of the Netherlands any more than it's part of the United States. The is only capitalized at the beginning of the sentence, not as part of a country's name. Don't they teach you anything in the US?
|by Anonymous||reply 83||07/16/2012|
They don't teach us how to be annoying, pedantic twits, no.
|by Anonymous||reply 84||07/16/2012|
[quote]We prefer good value solid Dutch cuisine
I've caught you in other lies about your "time in Amsterdam" - keep spinning, it just makes it clearer and clearer that you've never been outside of Schiphol
|by Anonymous||reply 85||07/16/2012|
R61, Rotterdam is drab but gets a pass because it was totally levelled during WW2. There was only so much reconstruction money to go round afterwards and rather too many ambitious architects. Sadly, the town centre is deserted after 5:30pm. It is a place where people go to work and then go home.
Dutch eating habits border on the ascetic. For lunch most of my Dutch colleagues would stock up on bread, sliced meat, cheese and milk. Every day. They thought it extravagant to have more than one hot meal a day.
|by Anonymous||reply 86||07/16/2012|
Our favorite restaurant in Amsterdam is a Turkish restaurant of the ferdinand bolstraat in de Pijp.
When in town we eat there every day!
Another good one is a chinese on the bilderdik near the ferdinand bolstraat.
You will not find a single tourist in either one, it is strictly for the locals.
|by Anonymous||reply 87||07/16/2012|
r58 & r59 know not of what they speak.
In Europe, the Ukraine DOES come with 'the', when one refers to it. On a map: without 'the'; in a sentence: always, always, always WITH a definitive article.
In German, for instance:
'Das EM Finale fand in der Ukraine statt.'
But NEVER: 'Das EM Finale fand in Ukraine statt.'
'Les plaines de l'Ukraine'.
Again, consider yourselves corrected, sweethearts!
|by Anonymous||reply 88||07/16/2012|
The the the the
For God's sake, the douche worked already!
|by Anonymous||reply 89||07/16/2012|
Best fast food ever, especially after drinking: FEBO.
|by Anonymous||reply 90||07/16/2012|
My dream is to open a Taco Bell on the Damrak.
All those college kids stoned out of their heads and no Taco Bell--that just ain't right.
|by Anonymous||reply 91||07/16/2012|
R88, In French all countries are preceded with a definite article. In German all non-neuter countries similarly. Since the language used on this board is English, neither language matters.
Now fuck off.
|by Anonymous||reply 92||07/16/2012|
[quote]It's pretty much Disneyland for 20 year old straight males. With Weed Coffee Shops and Hookers... they come from all over Europe to indulge.
I once spent a couple hours sitting and peacefully watching the guys go into the little hooker booths. I started timing the length of their visits, and based on maybe a dozen guys, the average encounter lasted something like 7 minutes from start to finish. That included the negotiations, the payment, and the undressing/dressing. I can't imagine how boring and mechanical the sex must have been.
|by Anonymous||reply 93||07/16/2012|
[quote]It is a place where people go to work and then go home.
there is a late night club scene. the HAGUE is a city that is deserted after 5 o'clock.
|by Anonymous||reply 94||07/16/2012|
[quote]My dream is to open a Taco Bell on the Damrak.
McDonalds of course has already figured this out. As have the thousands of local Pizza places crammed on top of each other.
|by Anonymous||reply 95||07/16/2012|
r92, please meet r58, who was making a sweeping statement about Europe - and not just English.
'(...) in German all non-neuter countries similarly'
You don't say so! That's what I was pointing out to r58, and his friend r59.
Secondly, (British) English allows definitive articles for several countries. The Lebanon, The Gambia, and The Yemen, to name just a few.
You might have heard of the recent film "Salmon fishing in the Yemen"? A legit film, with a legit film title.
In other words, the many English people who refer to the Ukraine as 'the Ukraine' are not incorrect, because there is no binding rule in English.
Consider yourself corrected once again, asshole.
|by Anonymous||reply 96||07/16/2012|
Is the Hague pretty, though? It wasn't bombed.
Secondly, even if Dutch people keep to themselves, is there a thriving cafe culture in Amsterdam? (I don't mean the marijuana coffee shops by that).
Or is it just the red light district and the museums that 'make' that city?
What else is there to do in Amsterdam?
|by Anonymous||reply 97||07/16/2012|
[quote] Ugliest post-war architecture I've ever seen.
That's because of dutch rationalism. It's a movement. Think De Stijl taken into every facet of design. It precludes any romantic or bravura gestures. The sooner it dies, the better.
|by Anonymous||reply 98||07/16/2012|
|by Anonymous||reply 99||07/16/2012|
[quote]Is the Hague pretty, though? It wasn't bombed.
yes, it was, the Bezuidenhout neighborhood where the now central station was once a beautiful neighborhood. it was bombed by ALLIES who were lost and thought it was Bremerhaven. The bombing is still annually commemorated.
The Hague was also wealthier than Amsterdam over a hundred years ago so when they could they filled in all of their canals, they bred pestilence anyway, better to be rid of them. The city now is grey, uniform and depressing as any city in Northern Europe can be.
|by Anonymous||reply 100||07/16/2012|
[quote]Secondly, even if Dutch people keep to themselves, is there a thriving cafe culture in Amsterdam?
yes, that is correct. Some of them are down and out, especially in the immigrant neighborhoods, but yes, "kroegen" are everywhere and very active. Know your stuff before you enter an out-of-the-way one, they may only serve peanuts and "bitterballen" as food, and only serve Heineken and Jenever. But others might be very airy and elegant, like the famous "de Jaren". These aren't places to mix and mingle, but they are substitutes for living rooms that aren't very commodious in the rabbit-hutch like quarters most people live in. Want to see you friend? invite them to your corner favorite kroeg. You don't necessarily invite them over for drinks or brunch to your place as a North-American would. it would be too cramped and it just isn't done.
|by Anonymous||reply 101||07/16/2012|
"As well as tolerance, a lot of religious movements sprang up in the Netherlands during the Reformation."
Would it be possible these things are related?
|by Anonymous||reply 102||07/16/2012|
Eurogay, since you are Eurocentric on this board, perhaps the definitive answer should be how the Ukrainians refer to their own nation.
What would that be?
|by Anonymous||reply 103||07/16/2012|
Pot, Van Gogh, dykes (not that kind), windmills, tulips, rosy-cheeked blond children in wooden shoes, red light districts, Anne Frank's house, and that whole Netherlands/Holland/Dutch confusion.
|by Anonymous||reply 104||07/16/2012|
Amsterdam became a touch less charming when I read that the vast majority of those quaint little houseboats discharge their untreated sewage directly into the canals.
|by Anonymous||reply 105||07/16/2012|
Oh, the canals are dangerous. You DON'T fall in. if a person falls in it's a huge big deal and a bio-hazard team treats them.
|by Anonymous||reply 106||07/16/2012|
It's a fag country for sure.
They all prance around on ice skates and hold tulips in their hands.
They profited off of WWI by trading with BOTH Germany and England/France.
The when WWII was going to break out the UK and France offered them protection, the sneaky Dutch said, "No we'll be neutral." And then they covered their mouth and giggled.
Then Hitler came in an trounced them in 24 hours and the Dutch were all like "Help me, help me, I'm such a sissy."
Even Belgium held out longer.
Then they told Hitler were sweet little Anne Frank was.
More Jews died in Holland than any other occupied country because the Dutch sold them out.
But it didn't stop old Adolph. After he offed the Jews he said, "OK you snitches you're next."
Even Rotterdam was termed the "Rape of Rotterdam." Who gets raped? Ladies that's who.
|by Anonymous||reply 107||07/16/2012|
Seek professional help, R107.
|by Anonymous||reply 108||07/16/2012|
Aside from the weird locutions & slurs, r108, the poster is right.
Austria was a bit of an exception, though.
|by Anonymous||reply 109||07/16/2012|
Saying that Holland killed off all their Jews because they're a bunch of girly fags is a "slur"? Well, alrighty then.
|by Anonymous||reply 110||07/16/2012|
When the Dutch local governments succeed in outlawing coffee-shop Maria sales to non-residents then trash like r91 will no longer be found in Amsterdam!
|by Anonymous||reply 111||07/16/2012|
That has been forbidden for some years now, Mary 105!!!
|by Anonymous||reply 112||07/16/2012|
R103, It has already been pointed out to Eurotwat that the official and only correct name is without the definite article but he persists in his ignorant trolling because he wants to be 'correct'.
He also displays his lack of knowledge about English when he pretends that there is no rule about using the definite article or not. If he had a better grasp of English he would understand why using 'the Ukraine' is both archaic and, diplomatically since independence, a non-starter.
|by Anonymous||reply 113||07/17/2012|
The Netherlands the capital is Amsterdam
Of course every single dictionary in the entire world defines the capital of the seat of government
But all the government offices and the queen live in the Hague (note another "the" place)
So if all the government and queen is in the Hague why is Amsterdam the capital?
|by Anonymous||reply 114||07/17/2012|
During the famine, they ate wooden shoes and this is why they are now so tall.
|by Anonymous||reply 115||07/17/2012|
And how do you explain "The Yemen", "The Gambia", "The Lebanon", and "The Congo" in ENGLISH, r113?
Are the producers of 'Salmon Fishing in the Yemen' trolls as well?
|by Anonymous||reply 116||07/17/2012|
r101, the social attitude you describe is typical for all of Northern Europe.
Similar for Denmark, Sweden, Norway, and northern Germany (but not southern Germany).
You meet your friends at pubs (aka krog, kneipe), but you never go there to mix and mingle, as people do in the UK. And you don't really go there to eat either. Most places just serve some pretzels, and that's it.
|by Anonymous||reply 117||07/17/2012|
I believe it's because there is a "Kingdom of the Netherlands", of which the Netherlands proper is only one part.
The Dutch islands in the Caribbean form the rest of that Kingdom.
Amsterdam is the capital of all territories (especially symbolically); the seat of government for the *Netherlands* (yet not the kingdom) is in the Hague.
The Queen resides in the Hague because it happens to have the more representative castles (she works in one, and lives in another). Her castle in Amsterdam isn't really a castle - it's the old city hall, which now functions as her Amsterdam residence. There never was space in Amsterdam to build a 'real' castle for a monarch.
|by Anonymous||reply 118||07/17/2012|
It's similar for the Channel Islands btw. They are not part of the UK proper, but belong to the British Crown, which has its seat in London.
The Channel Islands not even a part of the EU.
Same thing with the Isle of Man.
|by Anonymous||reply 119||07/17/2012|
For whatever its worth, in German, it is "the Netherlands". Most countries do not require an article, but a few do.
|by Anonymous||reply 120||07/17/2012|
r116, WTH linguistic point do you think you are making, re: Ukraine?
|by Anonymous||reply 121||07/17/2012|
Biking. Tall people. Xaviera Hollander. Flat terrains. Tulips. Edom. Gouda. Anne Frank. Van Gogh. Resistance after the Nazis invaded. Colonialism. Canals. Islamophobia. Right Wing Nut Jobs. Monarchical wealth. Oil. weed. Women in windows. Red Lights. Pretty little towns with cows on the edge of them. Beer.
|by Anonymous||reply 122||07/17/2012|
[quote]That has been forbidden for some years now, Mary 105!!!
Uhm, no. There is a plan in place to hook the houseboats up by 2018, but its not going anywhere fast because of the complexities involved. At least 75% still discharge sewage into the canals.
|by Anonymous||reply 123||07/17/2012|
Speculaas. Zoute drop. Stroop wafels. Poffertjes. Chocolade Hagelslag met beschuit. Ontbijtkoek. They may have crappy food in general, but the sweets/junk food are things I crave...unfortunately the love for those things was something I developed at an early age.
|by Anonymous||reply 124||07/17/2012|
I used to work for a Dutch-owned corporation. Lots of Dutch co-workers, all tall and good-looking, and to a man, terrible hair.
|by Anonymous||reply 125||07/17/2012|
Are there males prostitutes???
|by Anonymous||reply 126||07/17/2012|
There is a chocolate snack cake they sell there, it's available in convenience stores, and at the train station, that's made out of the darkest and richest Dutch cocoa I've ever tasted. One bite and you can literally feel the endorphins bombarding your brain cells.
I would trade the best orgasm I've ever experienced for one of those cakes, good strong cup of coffee, and a Camel cigarette.
|by Anonymous||reply 127||07/17/2012|
R126, yes, "houses with boys". essentially brothels.
|by Anonymous||reply 128||07/17/2012|
We visited one of those places, r128, with two of our Dutch sisters just to check it out.
Well, my dear, you never saw such nelly queens are what they had on offer there. It must cater to Lesbians because there certainly were no men for sale there.
We left after about 2 minutes.
|by Anonymous||reply 129||07/17/2012|
In English you say "The Netherlands." Ukraine used to be referred to as The Ukraine, but apparently there was poltical resistance to this and now is just Ukraine since their independence.
Based on my meeting a few Dutch people, I would say they are intelligent, do have a dry humor, but are kind of cold.
|by Anonymous||reply 130||07/17/2012|
What about sizemeat?
|by Anonymous||reply 131||07/17/2012|
[quote]We visited one of those places, [R128], with two of our Dutch sisters just to check it out.
no, you didn't. They cater exclusively to tourist trade. You either went there on your own or you didn't.
|by Anonymous||reply 132||07/17/2012|
Thank you, r130.
And it explains why many English people still say 'The Ukraine' - because they're used to it.
|by Anonymous||reply 133||07/17/2012|
I kind of wish I were born there. I think their citizens may STILL hate Germans.
|by Anonymous||reply 134||07/17/2012|
r134, many of their citizens are buying second homes in Germany these days - for should the sea rise, Holland will be gone.
Germany today isn't the same as Germany back then, you know?
|by Anonymous||reply 135||07/17/2012|
Be nice to R134, he's still in hiding from the Nazis.
|by Anonymous||reply 136||07/17/2012|
FYI R133, Yemen is just "Yemen". You only "The Yemen" if you're talking about the river.
|by Anonymous||reply 137||07/17/2012|
There is no river called 'the Yemen', r137. Thanks for playing, though.
The title of the film actually refers to the country.
|by Anonymous||reply 138||07/17/2012|
Thanks, r128! It looks as though there is but one "house with boys". I'll have to check it out...
|by Anonymous||reply 139||07/17/2012|
"Germany today isn't the same as Germany back then, you know?"
It still lingers on.
Germany may not round up Gay citizens and put them in concentration camps today, but it still legally classifies Gay citizens as second class persons and refuses to give them full equal rights.
Old Nazi Germany is still around.
|by Anonymous||reply 140||07/17/2012|
One may say the Netherlands, but remember, the is never capitalized (unless it is the first word in a sentence)as it is not part of the country's name. Same with the United States. The, is not part of the name of a country. You will not see a map correctly printed that identifies the 50 states as The United States. Not gonna happen.
|by Anonymous||reply 141||07/17/2012|
here's the rule for countries and word, the.
|by Anonymous||reply 142||07/17/2012|
What about the Lebanon? Seems to me there was a thread about the name not long ago.
|by Anonymous||reply 143||07/17/2012|
France is such a diva that it likes to be called La France
|by Anonymous||reply 144||07/17/2012|
|by Anonymous||reply 145||07/17/2012|
I'm on the fence about a trip in September to Amsterdam (and a day or two in Brussels)... any advice...?
|by Anonymous||reply 146||07/17/2012|
r146, both the Dutch and the Flemmish are hot. Get them arguing about which country is better. It's cute to hear their guttural growls go back and forth.
|by Anonymous||reply 147||07/17/2012|
r141, the link at r142 suggests that 'the' IS indeed a part of the name of the Netherlands.
A handful of countries do take the definitive article into their official name.
|by Anonymous||reply 148||07/17/2012|
The locals often refer to the Anne Frank house as "The Anne Frank money house". Especially the older Amsterdam residents are on to that scam. A Dutch eldersister enlightened us about it and - upon further investigatia - we found that it is indeed a very profitable hoax!
|by Anonymous||reply 149||07/17/2012|
What about it is a hoax, Mrs Patrick Campbell?
|by Anonymous||reply 150||07/17/2012|
I'm going this weekend. For kroketten and Dutch cock.
|by Anonymous||reply 151||07/17/2012|
MPC is a misogynist, mentally unstable crackhead. Please feel free to ignore him/her/it.
|by Anonymous||reply 152||07/17/2012|
I think MPC is quite entertaining.
|by Anonymous||reply 153||07/17/2012|
Let's take a look at all the things that MPC has said over the years are hoaxes:
That's what I've remembered over the years.
|by Anonymous||reply 154||07/17/2012|
The Golden Earring(s)
|by Anonymous||reply 155||07/17/2012|
How high will the dikes have to be built to survive the rising oceans of global warming?
|by Anonymous||reply 156||07/17/2012|
I wrote some erotic male/male fanfiction that takes place there.
|by Anonymous||reply 157||07/17/2012|
This gay dutch guy is a wet dream...
|by Anonymous||reply 158||07/17/2012|
[quote] "The Anne Frank money house". Especially the older Amsterdam residents are on to that scam.
total bullshite, no Dutch person ever expressed that to me, I lived in A'dam and Haarlem for ten years and knew Tons of native "inwoners" - You're full of Crap, just like you always are.
|by Anonymous||reply 159||07/17/2012|
Why do people refer to this place as Datalounge when, as a glance at the logo on the top left of the site will substantiate, it is "the data lounge"?
|by Anonymous||reply 160||07/17/2012|
She's right about 9/11, not the rest.
|by Anonymous||reply 161||07/17/2012|
She's a lying cunting liar.
|by Anonymous||reply 162||07/17/2012|
The Dutch are absolutely DESPERATE to win soccer's World Cup.
They always field competitive teams and have been the runners-up in the finals at least four times to my knowledge, but they just can't win it.
|by Anonymous||reply 163||07/17/2012|
They can't win the Eurovision Song Contest either. Not since the 1960s!
|by Anonymous||reply 164||07/17/2012|
R164 has Alzheimers
|by Anonymous||reply 165||07/17/2012|
That's still almost 40 years, R165. Longer than you and I have been alive, presumably.
|by Anonymous||reply 166||07/17/2012|
Thanks for sharing, fellow conspiracy dingbat R161.
|by Anonymous||reply 167||07/17/2012|
Major hoaxe$/ScamS that have bled american taxpayers for the past 100 years:
Federal Reserve, federal income tax and every single war since 1913 911 'war on terror' (LOL), iraq, afghanistan, HIV/AID$ Bird flu, etc Hep C Moon landing, space race, NASA, Cold War, missile race, nuclear bombs, The list is almost endless of what the american tax-slaver has been stupid enough to tolerate!
|by Anonymous||reply 168||07/18/2012|
A country full of pot head neo-nazis. Can't really imagine anywhere I'd like to visit less.
|by Anonymous||reply 169||07/18/2012|
[quote]by: Mrs Patrick Campbell (we believe what we see, not what w . .
tertiary syphilis is a terrible thing!
|by Anonymous||reply 170||07/18/2012|
|by Anonymous||reply 171||07/18/2012|
See, R158, cute, but terrible hair!
|by Anonymous||reply 172||07/18/2012|
I love that coloring. Always have.
|by Anonymous||reply 173||07/18/2012|
What's more more of a turnoff, R172, is that he's a member of Geert Wilders' right-wing party.
|by Anonymous||reply 174||07/18/2012|
We visited Amsterdam, the surrounding countryside and Den Haag in spring 2011 - a great vacation, the gardens were in full bloom, and it was the Queen's official birthday which means a total city-wide rave in central Amsterdam and shutdown of all vehicular traffic including the ubiquitous bicycles. Literally tens of thousands of young people took over the city with live music and dancing at every major intersection - and weed and booze everywhere.
The tulip gardens - Keukenhof - outside of Amsterdam; touristy: yes, unbelievably beautiful with more than 5 million bulbs: yes. See it. Spring time only.
Of course, the Anne Frank House. To me, as a museum professional and a Jew, a very sterile museum except for the actual doorway with false bookshelf which leads to the secret annex and, at the very end, pages from her original diary. I thought I might loose control and openly weep; I did not.
The red-light district is interesting to walk through, but it's all eastern European girls in the street windows, no guys. Supposedly men are upstairs, we did not partake. I wept.
So many DL have posted about the height of the NL population. I didn't notice anything very different from the US; however the husband is 6'2", of Mayflower stock. Locals remarked that his last name is very Dutch. A little research showed that the Pilgrims lived in the Netherlands for about 10 years before sailing to America. Who Knew? A surprise to him as he thought of his ancestry as just English.
Amsterdam is not a culinary destination. Local food is like yo mama's comfort food: potatoes, gravy, roast meat or chops... except for the plain salt cured herring, which I actually liked; similar to Jewish style pickled herring, but no onions, cream or wine sauce. Also, they serve French fries with mayo - yuck. We had a few good meals in upscale non-Dutch bistros, also a good rijsttafel in a Tibetan/Indonesian restaurant.
The Hague is pretty plain, with the exception of the Mauritshuis museum. A beautiful 17th c. building in itself, displaying Vermeer (including "Girl with a Pearl Earring"), Rembrandt, Hals ... and the main square with some handsome 18th century facades.
|by Anonymous||reply 175||07/18/2012|
R143 - it's "the Levant."
|by Anonymous||reply 176||07/18/2012|
Oh yea, Schiphol is the most confusing, frustrating airport I have ever been to, and honey I've been to a few: Canton China, Bangkok, Heathrow, Lima Peru (a close second), Rome, Newark N.J., Hong Kong, Seoul, Mexico City, Narita, the rest of the continental US and Hawaii, blah, blah, blah.
No one seemed to know anything about ANYTHING outside of their particular job area. I was looking for a kiosk to connect with the shuttle to my hotel. There is just ONE kiosk for Amsterdam hotels but nobody knew where it was.
Then, once I found the kiosk, nobody (except one genius person) knew where the fucking shuttle actually arrived.
|by Anonymous||reply 177||07/18/2012|
Amsterdam is a fine city to just hang-out in. The public transportation is great and easy to figure out, the parks are wonderful, the city is easy to navigate, the people are friendly, and English is spoken everywhere.
One of my favorite things to do is to wander down to the ferries behind the Central Station, and ride them back and forth across the river at night. It's free, and it's as much fun as any of the canal tours.
Just get away from the Redlight District and the coffee shops and don't think that freakshow is anything like the real Amsterdam.
I have business in Germany about 2X per year, and I've taken to flying into AMS instead of Frankfurt. It's usually cheaper, and it's a good way to decompress before venturing into the rest of Europe.
|by Anonymous||reply 178||07/18/2012|
[quote] A little research showed that the Pilgrims lived in the Netherlands for about 10 years before sailing to America. Who Knew?
i did, as a second grader, everyone learns that at school about the pilgrims, they lived in Leiden, for the record.
|by Anonymous||reply 179||07/18/2012|
for us it was truly the land of no sex.
drugs plus latex lunacy(rubbers rubbers rubbers) turned us off totally and drove us to Paris,which is MUCH more fun, almost as fun as LA!
|by Anonymous||reply 180||07/18/2012|
R179 - Um, I grew up in New Yawk, and we did learn about the Pilgrims. They sailed from England to MA. Weird clothes, turkey. Period. NO mention of complicated religious Protestant-Protestant or Catholic-Protestant animosity. Ya wanna start a fight?
But, all Jews and Italians on Long Guyland (nothing wrong with Italians showering after gym class.) I just found that Pilgrim-Leiden thingy out (via Wikipedia.) My knowledge of Leiden NL was limited to early experiments with electricity "Leiden Jars."
The husband, who is the Mayflower descendant, didn't know about Pilgrims Leiden either, but is now enlightened.
|by Anonymous||reply 181||07/18/2012|
Dutch men are sensitive about skanky whores, that would put them off of you
|by Anonymous||reply 182||07/18/2012|
[quote]They sailed from England to MA. Weird clothes, turkey. Period. NO mention of complicated religious Protestant-Protestant or Catholic-Protestant animosity. Ya wanna start a fight?
sounds like you went to a crappy fucked up school.
|by Anonymous||reply 183||07/18/2012|
I presume you R182 are referring to Madam Patrick Campbell? No?
|by Anonymous||reply 184||07/18/2012|
[quote]sounds like you went to a crappy fucked up school
Oh yea, like you knew about how the Pilgrims lived in the Netherlands for 10 years. Riiiight.
|by Anonymous||reply 185||07/18/2012|
we all did.
2nd grade: it's thanksgiving and the story goes - the pilgrims were religious disenters and wanted to leave the grips of the decadent Church of England. They moved to the Netherlands were there was more tolerance for their brand of puritanism. They left not enjoying living there, stopped off in England and headed to the East Coast of the Americas on the Mayflower, hoping to land somewhere near Virginia. The end. the rest is well, history
Not mysterious at all. But every single one of us learned it.
|by Anonymous||reply 186||07/18/2012|
And where were you in elementary school?
Well, I suspect, as I alluded to previously, that the crappy school that I went to (nolo contendere), just may have glossed over that particular piece of Protestant vs. Protestant animosity due to the religious diversity of our community in the 1960's (OK, late 1950's) and the local norms of the time.
The story WE got was just the first part of your tale minus the "decadent", or any other majorly pejorative terms. Pilgrims unhappy in England, sail to America, land in Plymouth, step off ship on big rock, get hungry, have dinner with colorful Indians.
That of course is incorrect, they landed first in P-Town. (True) They enjoyed the Cape and then promptly left for Plymouth.
|by Anonymous||reply 187||07/18/2012|
I should have said: they landed first in P-Town. (True) There was no fresh water there, but they enjoyed the Cape and then promptly left for Plymouth.
|by Anonymous||reply 188||07/18/2012|
Leaving generations of American tourists to walk up to the fence, look down, and say "WTF, that's fucking Plymouth Rock?"
|by Anonymous||reply 189||07/18/2012|
Oy, don't ask R189. I was shocked by the relatively small size of the rock that was selected as "Plymouth Rock" and ennobled by someone.
It lies protected in that marble enclosure, and has "1620" carved on it.
However, even if this is not "the actual rock", remember that they could not sail the Mayflower right up to the shore, they made for shore in a dory. So, a small stepping stone might actually have been sufficient.
|by Anonymous||reply 190||07/18/2012|
We are glad that at least we live in a Catholic country(Spain), as opposed to an atheist country like the Netherlands.
|by Anonymous||reply 191||07/18/2012|
The Dutch are officially pretty agnostic. But the most church going seem to me the Catholic southerners.
|by Anonymous||reply 192||07/18/2012|
We don't particularly give a flying Catholic fuck about any of your unsolicited nutjob opinions, MPC.
|by Anonymous||reply 193||07/18/2012|
Being Catholic is really something to be proud of these days R191.
|by Anonymous||reply 194||07/18/2012|
Actually R194, it is.
|by Anonymous||reply 195||07/18/2012|
|by Anonymous||reply 196||07/18/2012|
Joseph Campbell is the person who made us understand the meaning of the statues, incense, ceremonies, prayers,rites, stained glass windows are for: they are meditational devices that enable us to transcend, if only for s few minutes. The symbols are references to metaphors. We prefer to go to beautiful old Catholic churches, basilicas, cathedrals here in Europe when there are no people in it.
|by Anonymous||reply 197||07/18/2012|
I went to the Netherlands (Amsterdam) this past summer, and I was surprised at how rude and unfriendly the people were there. For a country that's supposed to be so laid back and liberal, the people seemed miserable and mean no matter how nice you tried to be to them.
I was only in Amsterdam, so maybe the rest of the Netherlands is different, but I definitely don't have any desire to go back.
Funny enough, people always talk about how rude people in France and Germany are, yet I found the people there to be some of the nicest people I've ever met. Go figure.
|by Anonymous||reply 198||12/30/2012|
Mrs Patrick Campbell, LA is one big fat crashing bore. Paris is so disgustingly ancient regime it's not even funny. There's no wonder why so many French have moved to London.
Dutch people are beautiful to look at. Their Flemish brothers in Belgium are even hotter.They seem to bathe a little more too.And they also watch Y & R and they knew my impeccable work.
|by Anonymous||reply 199||12/30/2012|
|by Anonymous||reply 200||12/30/2012|
I was in Amsterdam about 8-9 years ago.. I was not impressed. Garbage littered the streets, there was a ton of garbage everywhere. It was disgusting. I was not impressed with the red light district either, and the language.. don't even get me started. I cringed when listening to Dutch.. what a weird ass and ugly language that is. The throat sound is just awful.
|by Anonymous||reply 201||12/30/2012|
R201 OK, I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought it sucked. Everything you said is true, and also there was dog shit everywhere on the sidewalks. Between all that and the rude, miserable people, I couldn't understand what the hell all the hype was about.
Oh, and Schiphol Airport has some of the rudest fucking security screeners I have seen in any airport (and I've been through a lot). They like to try to intimidate people and play 20 Questions with them when you try to leave their shitty little country even if you've done nothing wrong. I'll never go back.
|by Anonymous||reply 202||12/30/2012|
Mrs Patrick Campbell, do you never take pictures? With your wealth of experience, and love of looking back on past conquests, one would wish that you could share some photos with those of us less adventurous. Surely there's a pic or video collection somewhere.
Thanks for your consideration.
|by Anonymous||reply 203||12/30/2012|
Don't many Dutch but I worked with a girl who was Dutch and she grated on everyone's last nerve. Tall, big boned, rather dykey looking but straight. She clomped around the office like a horse, was bossy when she had no right to be, pushed off most of her work onto others until they started complaining about her making others put stamps on her mail and stupid shit like that. Fascinated with everyone's food and critiqued everything they ate. Everyone breathed a collective sigh of relief when she left.
|by Anonymous||reply 204||12/30/2012|
Sorry. That should be "don't know many".
|by Anonymous||reply 205||12/30/2012|
R204 That's only one person. That's like meeting a nelly,queeny gay man who loves Judy Garland, musical theater,camp and blow jobs and deducing that every gay man is like that.
|by Anonymous||reply 206||12/30/2012|
First country in the world to have same-sex marriage, so pretty cool just for that.
They must have an excellent education system as all the Dutch I know (granted, mostly highly educated) speak excellent English and often know quite good German too.
|by Anonymous||reply 207||12/30/2012|