Dan Savage's silence on Frank Ocean.
He's fighting on Twitter with Sandra Rose over her calling him bi-phobic over the Frank Ocean situation.
But I must say I'm a little pissed with Savage. He has yet to acutally mention Ocean, despite one of his followers linking him the statement and asking him to look at it. He took the time to applaud and thank Anderson and comment on his statement. He took the time out to comment on Sandra Rose and to call her people dopes. He took the time out to dash off a letter blaming black people for Prop 8 (which he later apologized for).
How long would it have taken to just write "Congrats Frank."? You can't say anything when something truly groundbreaking and positive happens for the black community and the gay community in general?
Not cool, Dan.
|by Anonymous||reply 151||06/24/2013|
Savage is notoriously racist and hates male bisexuals so this isn't surprising. If Frank was white and bourgeois, he'd be all over him.
|by Anonymous||reply 1||07/05/2012|
Why would anyone look to Dan Savage for wise commentary? He lacks basic civility and moral authority. He is not one to listen to about anything.
|by Anonymous||reply 3||07/05/2012|
Frank Ocean is black. Of course Grand Wizard Savage is silent.
|by Anonymous||reply 5||07/05/2012|
How is Savage "notoriously racist"?
|by Anonymous||reply 7||07/05/2012|
I'm shocked that you're shocked, OP. Frank Ocean is black, so he doesn't count, he doesn't matter. He's not a "real" gay or LGBT.
|by Anonymous||reply 8||07/05/2012|
No one under a hundred even knows who the fuck Frank Ocean is. This is what happens when you have a site full of elder-gays.
|by Anonymous||reply 9||07/05/2012|
[quote]Why would anyone look to Dan Savage for wise commentary? He lacks basic civility and moral authority. He is not one to listen to about anything.
Take your pussy ass back to HRC HQ!
|by Anonymous||reply 11||07/05/2012|
Frank Ocean came out in the height of his career so much hate surrounding him right now while Anderson is being praise for what he should have done years ago.
|by Anonymous||reply 12||07/05/2012|
franks coming out is MAJOR
|by Anonymous||reply 14||07/05/2012|
Savage is a fringe sex Ann Landers. Who would dare to look to him on gay media matters?
|by Anonymous||reply 15||07/05/2012|
[quote]Isn't Dan Savage just a sex columnist? I mean did someone anoint him official spokesperson for LGBT.
You do know he's behind the "It Gets Better" campaign, no? And appears in front of any camera that will have him to comment on gay matters?
|by Anonymous||reply 16||07/05/2012|
Savage has always been a bigoted asshole. The "It Gets Better" campaign idea was just a ploy to get himself more PR. Luckily it took on a life of its own and left him behind. The problem is that garbage like MTV keeps acting as if he's THE spokesman. He's a complete moron. It's amazing that "It Gets Better" was able to move beyond him, because he's a total douchebag.
|by Anonymous||reply 17||07/05/2012|
Two nobodies don't equal a somebody.
|by Anonymous||reply 18||07/05/2012|
Who the fuck cares what that stretched-out whore has to say.
|by Anonymous||reply 21||07/08/2012|
I'd never heard of Frank Ocean until I read that he came out.
|by Anonymous||reply 22||07/08/2012|
No one had r22. No one still has heard of Dan Savage.
|by Anonymous||reply 23||07/08/2012|
Dan Savage seems like the type of guy who would change his voice to "Sassy Black Woman" whenever he was talking to anyone of the slightest color.
|by Anonymous||reply 24||07/08/2012|
I had to google it to figure out who Frank Ocean was, once I did I realized he is just a C-Grade Celeb. This pointless and ignorant anon post is just a stupid troll.
Only a homophobe makes such a big deal over peoples sexuality.
|by Anonymous||reply 25||07/10/2012|
Why does anyone care? It's not as if Savage is some kind of arbiter of what's good or bad for the community. That straight media uses him as a talking head doesn't mean his opinion matters much to actual gay people.
|by Anonymous||reply 26||07/10/2012|
Dan Savage responds to OP's bullshit racist allegations.
|by Anonymous||reply 27||07/10/2012|
I find it interesting that most of you bitches have apparently leapt to the conclusion that Ocean is "bi." Has *he* used that term, or implied that he's ever been anything but gay? The fact that his song lyrics reference women is immaterial. They're just songs.
|by Anonymous||reply 28||07/10/2012|
Frank Ocean is more than just a "C-Grade Celeb." And what does that even mean? Do we judge our artists' worth now on how many People magazines cover they land?
His coming out is more momentous and courageous than Anderson Cooper's. Is it as talked about as much in the mainstream? Maybe not. But for anyone up on the future of American music, Ocean's coming out is a huge step forward.
Here is a potentially major artist coming out AT THE BEGINNING of his career. Anyone who downplays that and refuses to place Ocean in his own rightful context is being willfully ignorant. OFWK is downright worshipped by many kids whose opinions and attitudes could be permanently changed for the better by Ocean.
(And I do not mean to suggest that Cooper's step wasn't major and brave in its own belated way.)
|by Anonymous||reply 29||07/10/2012|
Not true, r23. I'm 50 and have known about the Odd Future collective for a few years. Frank Ocean's performance on Fallon last night was pretty breathtaking. Maybe find out who he is before you dismiss him. You might appreciate his talents. Also, at 24, he's probably not very familiar to the over 100 set. You might be thinking of Billy Ocean, which would say more about you than Frank Ocean.
|by Anonymous||reply 30||07/10/2012|
I can't even believe he responded to this. What a loser. He must have a google alert or something.
|by Anonymous||reply 31||07/10/2012|
According to NPR, he didn't "come out". He merely said that his first love was a man...
Ocean's act was this: after a journalist who attended a listening party for his new album, Channel Orange, noted that several of the songs were addressed to a male love object, the singer and songwriter turned to his own web page and published two long paragraphs which will likely be part of the liner notes for the July 17 release. They start with a declaration of empathy â "Whoever you are, whatever you are ... I'm starting to think we're a lot alike" â and proceeds to tell of the now 24-year-old native Louisianan's first romance at 19, with a male friend who apparently reciprocated on some level, but refused Ocean's ultimate attempt to name their love. Ocean unfolds his confession in a poetic but reserved manner, promising his former heart's companion one last thing: "Some things never are. And we were. I won't forget you. I won't forget the summer. I'll remember who I was when I met you."
Locating the intimate exchange in time and space, grounding it in lovely, painful detail ("He patted my back. He said nice things," Ocean writes of the moment his friend rejected him), this brief window into a summer place matters on a few levels. It is a kind of coming out: a revelation from a public figure that he's had serious relationships with both men and women. In the R&B world, this is nearly unprecedented. Los Angeles Times music writer Gerrick D. Kennedy called it "the glass ceiling moment for music. Especially black music, which has long been in desperate need of a voice like Ocean's to break the layers of homophobia."
|by Anonymous||reply 32||07/10/2012|
[quote]His coming out is more momentous and courageous than Anderson Cooper's.
[italic]MARY![/italic] I say that as someone who *likes* Odd Future btw, but outside of indie music and some R&B circles, I accept the reality that no one knew who the fuck he was a week ago. His decision to kinda-sorta come out wasn't terribly "courageous" in the least; as R32 correctly noted, he's still skimming the issue. He's admitted to having at least two romance with men but refuses to actually utter the word "gay," and pretending for your fans to be "bi" is a sign of pure cowardice that I'd hoped we'd left behind in the '80s with Michael Stipe and Morrissey (both of whom now identify as "queer").
|by Anonymous||reply 34||07/10/2012|
Of course he congratulated Cooper. Some of you don't seem to understand how hard it is to be a rich white man in America!
Mr. Savage is just standing up for those who truly have it hard in this country.
|by Anonymous||reply 35||07/10/2012|
All sorts of white people are making note of the Fallon performance. On the strength of it the album appeared on iTunes a week before its in-store release next Tuesday. It's selling very well. People may not care this week, but they probably will next month.
|by Anonymous||reply 36||07/10/2012|
Dan Savage is a transparent creep. Why would anyone want to take advice from a bitter 50 year old who behaves like a 12 year old mean girl? He's sexist, racist, superficial, dishonest and everything else that only goes to perpetuate the worst stereotypes about gay men. He's proof that people can easily say "it gets better," but unless they're willing to grow up they're always going to battle the demons of their childhood.
|by Anonymous||reply 37||07/10/2012|
If he were merely skirting the issue, "Bad Religion" is NOT the song he would have chosen to perform on Fallon.
|by Anonymous||reply 38||07/10/2012|
Points taken, R34.
However, the reason I think his 'coming out' is more momentous than Cooper's clearly doesn't have to do with the amount of exposure. Cooper certainly got much more attention.
But I think I consider it more momentous and brave because
1), Cooper is in the mold of celebrity that has already had many of his ilk come out (white-bred, well-to-do, establishment)
and 2), this comes AT THE BEGINNING of Ocean's career. Not after he is safely established, but when the backlash can still derail a hopefully long and rich career.
I think the fallout or lack-there-of from Ocean's (admittedly slightly-skimming-the-issue) coming out will, in the end, be more of a bellwether than Cooper's late-in-the-game announcement.
|by Anonymous||reply 39||07/10/2012|
What? A rich privileged white man's coming out is more significant than a young man in the height of his career in the industry full of homophobia and machismo?
Frank Ocean might have ruined his career but what he did take balls! Anderson waited until his career was gone and then he left the country because he couldn't face the media while Frank was having death treats on twitter,youtube and facebook ..you old farts might not know him right now but Frank will deff be remembered than Anderson Vanderbilt Cooper as the guy who made an impact for GLBT.
|by Anonymous||reply 40||07/10/2012|
Frank Ocean went on Jimmy Fallon, on national television and sang a song, a love song from one man to another. You may all try to downplay him as being just a niche artist but what he's done is unprecedented. Name me any musician that's done that, that's not only come out but talked openly about his feelings for another man & sang about it.
If Savage is really serious about his anti bullying campaign then he should be commenting about how this might affect & change perceptions of young kids listening today. For them the rappers & hip hop artists, the R& B singers are more relevant than what AC did, significant as that is.
|by Anonymous||reply 41||07/10/2012|
WW for R40. Instead of repeating Dan Savage's blatant lie that black people deserve all the blame for Prop 8, people should be glad that Frank is standing up and changing minds in the process. A little rat who left the country and came out via e-mail is significantly less heroic than a young star who has an album about to come out.
|by Anonymous||reply 42||07/10/2012|
ANd I'll agree with R40 what he did is courageous. I've seen several death threats out there for this young man including some saying he better be killed or dead by 2013.
|by Anonymous||reply 43||07/10/2012|
Anderson Cooper-Nothing to loose
Frank Ocean- EVERYTHING to loose.
|by Anonymous||reply 44||07/10/2012|
[quote]WW for [R40]. Instead of repeating Dan Savage's blatant lie that black people deserve all the blame for Prop 8
|by Anonymous||reply 45||07/10/2012|
[quote] Do we judge our artists' worth now on how many People magazines cover they land?
Oh, shut up.
|by Anonymous||reply 46||07/10/2012|
[quote]2), this comes AT THE BEGINNING of Ocean's career. Not after he is safely established, but when the backlash can still derail a hopefully long and rich career.
Sorry, but I again must disagree. I'll also point out that he's far from the first black indie musician to come out of the closet. It was almost entirely ignored on DL, but the lead singer of Bloc Party, Kele Okereke, quietly came out several years ago, at a point when Bloc Party was still the kind of indie-music darling Odd Future is today. Yes, I realize Odd Future is a hybrid indie/rap group and not quite the same type of band, but still. In any event, I think it's much more of a big deal for a celebrity to come out as gay mid-career, when it's near its peak and you have a whole lot to lose, versus at the beginning or near the end.
|by Anonymous||reply 47||07/10/2012|
[quote]Instead of repeating Dan Savage's blatant lie that black people deserve all the blame for Prop 8
It is indisputable that black churches and Mormons were the two groups that were the most mobilized to defeat the Prop 8 initiative. Deal with it.
|by Anonymous||reply 48||07/10/2012|
[quote]What? A rich privileged white man's coming out is more significant than a young man in the height of his career in the industry full of homophobia and machismo?
You care only because he's black. He's a nobody. It doesn't mean jack. He did this for publicity, and now he's gotten it. He'll still be a nobody in a few months time.
He now has to sleep with one eye open in case one of those black rappers goes and tries to slit his throat. He was just blamed for spreading AIDS. The black community is not pleased. He got support from Jay-Z and Beyonce. That's not going to save his ass.
His people will also not comment on these gay allegations. He did this for press. His music sucks. He wasn't going to be able to sell himself on that alone.
|by Anonymous||reply 49||07/10/2012|
It was bold of Frank Ocean to write down his feelings toward another man. Many heterosexuals can't stomach it. They are repelled by same-sex attraction. So he did something that could turn a large audience off to him right away.
Despite what some believe Frank Ocean's revelation will have just a small impact. People come out on their own time unless they are forced out. It's very rare for someone to come out because a celebrity did. Five years ago, journalist Thomas Roberts came out on Anderson Cooper's show. Obviously, Anderson didn't come out the next day instead he waited for his own time. That's how it is for everyday gay people. Frank Ocean's revelation will have a bigger impact on future gay and bi singers because there will be people who have created professional relationships with him who can then deal with other gay or bi singers making it easier for them.
|by Anonymous||reply 50||07/10/2012|
r50, and if Frank Ocean is successful imagine the floodgate it will open for closet or future GLBT R&B/rap artist..this is very revolutionary and I'm happy be alive to be witnessing it.
|by Anonymous||reply 51||07/10/2012|
[quote]Yes, it's very brave for Ocean to come out since he's apparently a well-known figure in contemporary hip-hop, which is a bastion of anti-gay sentiment.
[quote]I'm not trying to take anything away from Ocean, as I repeat, I think he faces a lot more resistance within his own community for coming out than say, NPH, who's from a totally different background(white TV actor cum Broadway star), but the fact remains that for the population at large, he's a much less prominent figure, which might explain the relative lack of coverage.
r33 thats good reasoning as to why he hasnt gotten media coverage. But your thought process about this is exemplary of why the gay rights movement, or whatever we like to call it, is broken up into pieces. People who's quality of life suffers at anytime because they encounter homophobia are part of one community, as far as Im concerned. So an indie musician or rapper telling the world he was in love with man is just as important as a high profile actor or journalist. All of this is increases our visible numbers. Crabs in a barrel syndrome is not helping anyone.
|by Anonymous||reply 52||07/10/2012|
R49 Your post makes little sense. He did it to get publicity & get blamed for AIDS & to possibly get killed in his sleep-- because what? That's everyone's dream.
Throwing a fit & yelling figuratively online how his music sucks, will not stop people who enjoy his music from buying it & playing it. You're expending a lot of energy in your multiple Frank Ocean is a nobody posts & getting little return.
I don't think his coming out had to do with publicity because this had an incredible downside potential. Others who have tried before or who had rumors that they were gay in the hip hop world has seen their careers crash & burn.
I believe he was being true to himself. He's written songs for others but when he had to write music for his own personal cd, he felt he had to tell his story.
I don't know how you can measure impact but I do suspect that the Fact that Anderson Cooper came out a couple days earlier, may have given Frank Ocean the courage to release his liner notes earlier.
|by Anonymous||reply 53||07/10/2012|
To say he did it for publicity is nothing short of nonsense .
He was never going to run away From the issue .People would have read the letter eventually after the album came out . It wasnt going to be a secret .Everything was a big coincidence . He could have chosen to keep quite or Just said he was singing from a woman's perspective but he didnt
|by Anonymous||reply 54||07/10/2012|
Its also really fitting that Dan Savage and Sandra Rose fought over this. Both crabs in the barrel!
While that was fucked up on Dan's part, Sandra is no prize herself. I read her blog. She posts her opinions on her own lesbian life, and her readers who are overwhelmingly black females read it like its gospel, like Sandra is the expert on homosexuality. She is unmoving on her views on the causes of homosexuality because she was sexually abused by a woman as child. I think she is doing a disservice to the gay community since her website is so popular.
|by Anonymous||reply 55||07/10/2012|
Savage is coming off way too bitchy and nasty. He seems to think this is trite, but R41 has it right.
Shit, even Busta Rhymes (a notorious homophobe at one time) tweeted his congratulations and support.
|by Anonymous||reply 56||07/10/2012|
[quote]He now has to sleep with one eye open in case one of those black rappers goes and tries to slit his throat. He was just blamed for spreading AIDS.
Link, please. Unless, of course, you're a hyperventilating drama queen who can't fathom the concept that the black community as a whole doesn't give a shit whether or not Frank Ocean is gay or bi or whatever.
[quote]People would have read the letter eventually after the album came out .
This makes no sense. How would anyone have seen these "letters" if he hadn't posted them on his Tumblr account?
|by Anonymous||reply 57||07/10/2012|
Kanye West was also in the same position as Frank Ocean years ago..Niche Indie rap artist with so much buzz until he had a song that was a huge hit and the rest was history.Sadly, Frank doesn't have one tune on his album that is radio-friendly..
*sigh*I really want this guy to make it!
|by Anonymous||reply 58||07/10/2012|
[quote]Savage is coming off way too bitchy and nasty.
Apparently the whole "it gets better" campaign made everyone collectively forget that Dan Savage is, generally speaking, a total cunt. He's been bitchy and nasty as long as he's been a journalist, and probably well before that as well. Also, let's not forget his pathologically absurd attempt to give his age as 32 when he was in reality 45 at the time. Nobody buys that kind of shit!
|by Anonymous||reply 59||07/10/2012|
His album is #1 on iTunes by the way
|by Anonymous||reply 60||07/10/2012|
Sad news: Target refuse to carry Frank Oceans's album.
|by Anonymous||reply 61||07/10/2012|
Links or it didn't happen
|by Anonymous||reply 62||07/10/2012|
[quote]Sad news: Target refuse to carry Frank Oceans's album.
Link please. Btw Wal-Mart and Target routinely refuse to carry albums with explicit lyrics, so this isn't exactly surprising ... unless you're trying to imply, falsely, that Target is "boycotting" Frank Ocean because he's gay, which is asinine.
|by Anonymous||reply 63||07/10/2012|
Target refused because Frank gave it exclusively to Itunes first.. Not good for his album sells.
|by Anonymous||reply 64||07/10/2012|
[quote]Target refused because Frank gave it exclusively to Itunes first..
Which is routine.
[quote]Not good for his album sells.
You don't seriously think it's more important that he sell his albums at Target than on iTunes, do you?!? You realize it's 2012, yes? And that the vast majority of new music is bought and consumed entirely online?
|by Anonymous||reply 65||07/10/2012|
[quote]This makes no sense. How would anyone have seen these "letters" if he hadn't posted them on his Tumblr account?
The letter was on his liner notes on the CD. It was put on there as a thank you to his first love. If you bought the CD you would have seen it.
In fact, it was because there was an early review of his CD that caused Frank Ocean to come out early. The reviewer said that there were several songs that used the pronoun he instead of she & implied that Frank was brave for doing this.
When people saw this review they sent him multiple tweets asking if he was gay or bi. It was only after he was bombarded with these tweets that he released his liner note letter on his Tumblr account to respond to all the questions. You can tell it was impulsive as he did it after 1 a.m
|by Anonymous||reply 66||07/10/2012|
R66, you do understand that Frank INTENTIONALLY wrote lyrics referencing a gay affair, right? He outed HIMSELF in a passive-aggressive fashion, inserting lyrics into songs that wouldn't be released for months, and then only vaguely acknowledging that they were indeed intended to describe same-sex love by releasing the "letters" to his old real-life loves.
|by Anonymous||reply 67||07/10/2012|
Please explain what's your point R67. His cd was scheduled to be released on July 17th not months ahead.
He wrote songs probably a year ago and I'm assuming whatever he wrote was intentional and about his gay affair.
The identical letter on his Tumblr was the one on his liner notes for the CD. Anyone who bought the CD would have seen the letter and would have questioned him about it.
The twitter questions was after the first review came out & the reviewer said Frank Ocean was a bisexual. The story was picked up by the gay blogs & people were demanding a response so Frank Ocean released what was his liner notes.
I've linked to the type of articles that were being written about him after this reviewer blabbed. I don't think it's passive aggressive. He was being bombarded on Twitter after these articles came out.
|by Anonymous||reply 68||07/10/2012|
Where I am, Frank Ocean is causing much more ripples than Anderson Cooper, who's coming out wasn't really news to anybody.
|by Anonymous||reply 69||07/10/2012|
This R67 was the quote from the BBC journalist reviewer Max on her blog that started all the questions: "Frank has also opened up about his sexuality on the album, we think it’s brave and admire him for being so honest and sharing such a personal aspect of his life through his music. On the songs ‘Bad Religion’ ‘Pink Matter and ‘Forrest Gump’ you can hear him sing about being in love and their are quite obvious words used like ‘him’ and not ‘her’.
In the world we live in now we can’t see this being an issue or why it should be?? But we do commend him for not continuing a facade and conforming to what a Hip Hop so called rule book expects, we say live your life and be yourself.”
Once she wrote that review --it spread everywhere and he had no choice but to respond. When he released the letter he said, this letter was intended to be on the liner notes for his cd as a thank you to his first love.
|by Anonymous||reply 70||07/10/2012|
Sergio Ramos is/was vacationing in Marbella. More pics at link of our favourite football boys on vacation before the season kicks in. Some of those WAGS look right slags if you ask me.
|by Anonymous||reply 71||07/10/2012|
Can anyone figure out who is Frank referring to as his lover in 2007?
|by Anonymous||reply 73||07/10/2012|
I wrote the original post, and I wrote the comment in the Stranger comments section. Like I said, I was not calling him a racist. I'm just shocked that he doesn't seem to grasp the impact of this. And I feel that way more than ever now after reading his glib, sniping, jumping to conclusions rebuttal.
I do find it more amusing than angry that Savage and his fanatics are saying I have thin skin. Meanwhile, this is a guy who devoted an entire blog entry to an anonymous poster's comments on a website.
And furthermore Dan, if you have a problem with what I say, you're more than welcome to debate it, either here or on The Stranger. Don't take potshots at me and then hide out like a coward. You want to be treated like an adult, then you need to act like one.
|by Anonymous||reply 74||07/10/2012|
R67 is purposely being dense. Frank wrote his CD liner notes in Dec 2011. He was always going to be posting them as he had written an album referencing his first love. He was outing himself with the liner notes and the songs. As was stated, he posted his CD liner notes on tumblr since people had asked questions.
He's dated women in college and after his 'first love' and that's why folks say he's bisexual. He also mentioned having another love afterwards who was so into him that she would say anything to keep him. Apparently those two loves have influenced the album songs.
The songs that I've heard have all been good.
Understandably the elder gays have likely never heard of Novacane or Love Crimes or Swim Good. All songs of Nostalgia Ultra that had single potential (Novacane actually getting radio play). The guy was the thing in R&B b/c of his collaborations and writing for Beyonce, Kanye and JayZ and his connection with Odd Future. He had sold out the shows for Nostalgia Ultra and had done the same for the his upcoming tour even without coming out so it's not like he was an 'unknown'. Even EW wrote something on Nostalgia Ultra so the flyovers who read that would at least recall something of a mention.
|by Anonymous||reply 75||07/10/2012|
R57 Because it part of the album BOOKLET You dummy .his coming out letter is Just the thank you's of the album booklet
|by Anonymous||reply 76||07/10/2012|
[quote]He also mentioned having another love afterwards who was so into him that she would say anything to keep him. Apparently those two loves have influenced the album songs.
Read more closely. He's admitted both of his "loves" were men.
[quote]I'm just shocked that he doesn't seem to grasp the impact of this.
I'm sorry, but you *are* being thin-skinned. Absurdly so. Accusing Dan Savage of "racism" solely because he doesn't think, nor do I (oh, wait - I must be a bourgeois white guy who loathes bisexuals and/or people of color! - um, no...), that the coming-out of an unknown musician -- like it or not, OP, you CANNOT argue that Frank Ocean has a substantive level of celebrity as one member of about TEN in a newish hip-hop collective, regardless of how much "promise" he shows -- merits all that much, or even any, comment.
If Kanye came out, that'd be one thing. If Drake came out, that'd be one thing. If Wiz Khalifa came out that's also be something ... albeit something quite odd. Frank? Not so much. Accept it and LET IT GO.
|by Anonymous||reply 77||07/10/2012|
"Accept it and LET IT GO."
Meanwhile, how many times are you going to keep posting? Why is this so important to you?
|by Anonymous||reply 79||07/11/2012|
Frank Ocean is no longer "unknown". He's the most talked about artist right now. He's become mainstream overnight.
|by Anonymous||reply 80||07/11/2012|
Don't forget Savage supported Bush in 2000, too. He got over that, but one still has the impression he doesn't really "get" a lot of stuff, a lot of the reasoning why the gay community from the start gravitated toward progressive causes.
|by Anonymous||reply 81||07/11/2012|
Or maybe it's because Frank admitting he had one relationship with a male isn't him coming out. Girls have girl on girl experiences, does that make them gay? Does standing in church make you Christian? Does being in at the beach make you a fish? Frank simply opened up about something in his past but never officially came out.
|by Anonymous||reply 82||07/11/2012|
Didn't Dan Savage support the Iraq War?
|by Anonymous||reply 83||07/11/2012|
[quote]No one under a hundred even knows who the fuck Frank Ocean is.
Are you a fucking idiot? I think you meant to use OVER.
Frank Ocean is 24 years old. Why would old people know who he is, moron?
|by Anonymous||reply 84||07/11/2012|
Well Queen B R82, I think the fact that he's still not over this guy after 3 and a half years, to the point where he feels he has to move to Canada to get away, suggests rather strongly that he just might be gay.
|by Anonymous||reply 85||07/11/2012|
His album made 110-125k on the iTunes exclusive. it's impressive because it's not out yet in stores..
|by Anonymous||reply 86||07/11/2012|
It does look like Target is refusing to sell Frank Ocean's CD's per this MTV blog.
|by Anonymous||reply 87||07/11/2012|
 Sorry still new to this site, don't know how to tag answers like that, and I didn't really read to much about it, so I d wasn't too informed, as far as I heard he had just had one fling. It kind of seemed like he avoided any questions referring to it though, I wonder what he plans to do with that.
|by Anonymous||reply 88||07/11/2012|
I wonder if this will be the first male out artist that gay/bi men will be proud of or are they going to ignore his success/talents for the latest straight female pop Divas who caters on them..like they usually do....
|by Anonymous||reply 89||07/11/2012|
89, already seeing many negative comments on twitter things like "RIP Frank Ocean deleting all your music" or "I can't listen to it when he is talking about a man." Sad really.
|by Anonymous||reply 90||07/11/2012|
Dan's like 50 years old. Why would he know who Frank Ocean is?
|by Anonymous||reply 91||07/11/2012|
Dane's like 50 years old. Why would he care who Frank Ocean is?
|by Anonymous||reply 92||07/11/2012|
Go frank .Probably the biggest first week digital sales of the year . Also his album is the most critically acclaimed album of the year
|by Anonymous||reply 93||07/12/2012|
[quote]Don't forget Savage supported Bush in 2000, too. He got over that, but one still has the impression he doesn't really "get" a lot of stuff, a lot of the reasoning why the gay community from the start gravitated toward progressive causes.
No he didn't.
|by Anonymous||reply 94||07/12/2012|
Coming out as a bisexual is so 1976.
|by Anonymous||reply 95||07/12/2012|
Frank Ocean is being compared to Jerry Sandusky. Tragic.
|by Anonymous||reply 97||07/13/2012|
Yeah he did support the 2nd Iraq war R83, completely.
|by Anonymous||reply 98||07/13/2012|
Dan Savage has been bigoted towards bisexuals for decades and practiced bisexual erasure and he still does that. In a recent writing of his on bisexuality he said how he does not believe that bisexual teenagers or youth exist and that he personally would only maybe believe that a person is really bisexual once they're past their mid 30s.
Savage has also been highly bigoted towards trans people and is racist.
Dan Savage is no friend of LGBT people, HIV+ people, bisexuals, trans people, GLBT people who are not white and rich, and women who have been raped.
Dan does not speak for all gay men or all GLBT people, and he's not a leader at all even if this media whore wishes he did. He's a self centered embarassment. If you think that Dan Savage actually cares about GLBT youth and GLBT adults, or anyone but himself you haven't been paying attention.
|by Anonymous||reply 99||07/13/2012|
r93,The pretentious music snobs over in Pitchfork gave the album a 9.5 ...that basically a nobel peace prize in the music industry.
|by Anonymous||reply 100||07/13/2012|
The reasons for loathing the repulsive non talent, and batshit crazy Dan Savage are self evident.
I put him in the same category as I do Rupert Everett - a-holes who care only about themselves and nothing about the LGBT community except to use it and us LGBT people for their own selfish reasons and to make money off of us. Dan Savage is nothing but a hypocrite and a grifter.
|by Anonymous||reply 101||07/13/2012|
Is Frank Ocean Billy Ocean's son?
|by Anonymous||reply 102||07/13/2012|
nah, he's American and that's a total stage name which I assume is based on the original Ocean's 11
|by Anonymous||reply 103||07/13/2012|
So when is someone who matters to normal people gong to come out?
|by Anonymous||reply 104||07/14/2012|
r100 Really why is a high rating on pitchfork such a big deal . i dont get it..are they a music station or something
|by Anonymous||reply 105||07/14/2012|
Correct me if I'm wrong but Ocean has not yet come out as bisexual. He spoke honestly about an experience he had with another man, and his honesty is to be commended, but that's not the same as coming out as bi.
|by Anonymous||reply 106||07/14/2012|
My dentist's assistant came out last week. She's black Irish. Dan Savage had nothing to say. I think I see a pattern forming here.
|by Anonymous||reply 107||07/14/2012|
R107= thinks he's witty but is actually only a functioning alcoholic.
|by Anonymous||reply 108||07/15/2012|
he is dating a girl currently though
|by Anonymous||reply 109||07/15/2012|
This is from the NY Times interview that he did before he came out.
"His âgloriously painful love life,â as he described it, has left its mark on his songwriting, particularly as heâs made the shift from writing for others to writing for himself. Two particular relationships haunt this album: one in which he was in control, one in which he wasnât.
âIâm getting away from both,â he said, using his hands to gesture at two imagined people in front of him, explaining his circumstance to the one heâs disappointed: âYouâll say anything to keep me around. Iâll say anything to keep this one around.â
Finding a way to detach, he admitted, is part self-preservation, part strategy, but he knows itâs better for him to make a clean break. Heâs tried going cold turkey before. A few months ago on his Tumblr he started a countdown: âDay 1,â âDay 2.â At âDay 7,â he added âIt gets easier.â
âZero contact â thatâs what that was,â he said. After âDay 8â the trail went dry.
âIâve given three and a half years of my life to that situation and situations like it,â he said.
From that interview he sounds like he was still being haunted by his first love and rejected the second person he was seeing. If you're still in love with a man after 3 and a half years it points more towards being gay.
|by Anonymous||reply 110||07/15/2012|
In that same interview he also says:
"With that success has come a roller coaster of love and letdown, and that is why, he said, it’s now time to go. Maybe to New York, or more likely to Toronto, which is more car friendly — outside the house were parked two BMWs, one red and newish and one silver and oldish — and which Mr. Ocean has fallen for based on Google searches, even though he’s never been there.
“When I think about the term ‘running away,’ probably it’s not the right one,” Mr. Ocean said as Everest was sniffing at some greenery. “It’s more I decided to do something different, so that I might have a different outlook.” He added, “When they’re emotional things you can’t run away from them anyway.”
This ties in with his later comments about giving 3 and a half years to this situation and him running away from it. That doesn't sound like a man in a current romance but still ruminating about his unrequited love.
|by Anonymous||reply 111||07/15/2012|
I'm pretty sure those people claiming Dan Savage is racist asshole have him confused with the whackjob Michael Savage. I've seen it happen constantly on many messageboards.
The world is full of Emily Littellas.
|by Anonymous||reply 112||07/15/2012|
If he gave 3 1/2 years to that first relationship that would be between the ages 19-22.
Also, the post about Day 1, Day 2 was from 2011, not a few months ago. NYTimes wasn't very thorough on that. If you read Frank's twitter you'll notice that he wasn't hanging on to the 1st love, he had a love life afterwards.
Actually, when he posted the letter to himself (the self he was five years ago) he wrote to his younger self that he gets his heart broken twice but that the 1st heartbreak was harder to deal with but he survived both heartbreaks. The mention of Day 1, 2 was from his last heartbreak (it seems based on the time frame).
Ocean's supposedly been dating the woman who did the Novacane video. They have posted a few cryptic tweets/pics in the last year but neither talk about their 'current love relationship'.
The other reason I don't think Frank has been pining away is that he'll post tweets like "polyamorous is such a pretty word" (that was from spring 2011) or he'll retweet comments like "Imma start telling girls I'm a softcore porn director".
I go with that letter to himself as informative on his two heartbreaks situation. And those happened in the past. Since he was working on Channel Orange spring 2011 his songs on the album relate to his feelings about those relationships then, not his current relationship(s).
|by Anonymous||reply 113||07/15/2012|
June 2011: "Explain your current situation to your five-years-ago-self." Frank's reply:
"hey chris, your name is frank now..itâs a long story. your girlfriend is about to break up with you because of the long distance. itâs ok. & that job youâre working..well, youâre gonna have to work there for another year and some months.. & then youâre gonna get fired. youâre gonna work a couple more jobs after that too. nothing glamorous. kinkos and at&t if you really want the specifics. but youâre never gonna be homeless or starving.
donât worry you wonât fail and have to move back to new orleans either. you are gonna get your heartbroken though. twice. if it helps, the first one is gonna be worse than the second. contrary to how it feels, it wonât kill you. in fact itâs gonna help you write an album.
yea, you finally finished an album. people like it man. youâre actually gonna write and record hundreds of songs. they wonât all be good and most ppl wonât think youâre talented at first, but youâre going to master your gifts. youâre going to become a lot stronger and wiser..even a little taller. be patient. i mean, you kind of have no choice. and be good to people. i donât wanna spoil too much for you, but.. youâre on a plane right now to the east coast to work with kanye west & jay-z. itâs all working out kid. you made it. "
|by Anonymous||reply 114||07/15/2012|
But if you go the the girl he is supposed to be dating's twitter you will realize that after he came out she said she loves him and she has favorited some tweets that said they were dating . but whatever
paps stalking frank yesterday
|by Anonymous||reply 115||07/16/2012|
Interesting R115 I think you're talking about Alycia Bellamy. It's hard to tell if she's dating him, friends with him or supporting him. She's written before about him being a gifted songwriter.
Interesting that one of the tweets she favorited said: "Your love for him shouldnt change because he is gay. if you love him, you should be happy that he is expressing himself"
One of her tweets is: "channel orange is #1 on iTunes. Can't believe I'm apart of something so historical. Legendary shit. " Sounds like she's writing about him being bi/gay & coming out.
|by Anonymous||reply 116||07/17/2012|
r104, I'll ignore the potentially racial implication of that, and just mention that this is an age issue as much as an LGBT issue.
It doesn't mean anything one way or the other re: his alleged racism because he never would have heard of Frank Ocean or Odd Future.
I also agree with r101. Even if he had heard of them, he probably wouldn't have realized they are as popular as they are. Therefore, he wouldn't have bothered to comment, regardless of Ocean's race.
|by Anonymous||reply 117||07/17/2012|
r47, if memory serves Kele came out right before his much-hyped (in indie circles) second album almost exactly how FO did - the major difference is that Channel Orange is stronger and much better-reviewed than A Weekend in the City was.
I Still Remember is still a great single, though - I've been listening to it lately because the reviewers who came away from Channel Orange listening parties without taking note of the use of male pronouns remind me of indie boys who thought that song would have any emotional impact whatsoever if it was about a straight pairing.
|by Anonymous||reply 118||07/19/2012|
Thank you, r108, for suggesting that I'm actually "functioning."
|by Anonymous||reply 119||07/19/2012|
R19 what's your point? Savage himself said how black people in the state of California were solely to blame for prop 8 passing and being voted in. No amount of revisionist history or claiming that it was really a certain age group will erase this fact as he put it online for everybody to see.
Yeah a lot of bi, gay, and hetero AA/black people got angry at his racist ass and so did a lot of people both LGBT and hetero of other races.
|by Anonymous||reply 120||06/22/2013|
Dan Savage is not a LOL "Gatekeeper" or gay white male "Leader" he's just a drag queen from the midwest who is not even a native of Seattle or the Pacific Northwest and who started her sex advice column as a joke and he uses it to spread his racist, bigoted, homophobic, biphobic, and transphobic views. The whole "IT gets better" PSA campaign is nothing more than a completely pointless PSA that does nothing to help LGBT youth or adults who are suicidal yet it does help Savage and his husband stay in their highly expensive McMansion, and it helped Savage's husband become a "model".
It is amusing how now people on LGBT sites are cool with that bigoted cunt Savage when he opens his ass up and spits out diarrhea of the mouth about monogamy or whatever other silly subject that queen goes on about that she knows nothing about since it's not as though Miss Savage is some expert in sexuality, gender, politics, sex, relationships since Savage is a media whore and bigot.
|by Anonymous||reply 121||06/22/2013|
yeah Shitty Savage does troll DL, see the link.
|by Anonymous||reply 122||06/22/2013|
DGAF about "Dan Savage". I think Frank Ocean's music is boring, but he himself is hot and has a lot of guts, a precedent even...
I felt for him at the Shammys when Chris "closet" Brown snubbed him. It looked like he was really out on his own there with no support and the hip hop contingent and practically all in the audience were afraid of him. Finally someone who told the truth.
Not sure about the "bi" in HIS case though as he admitted his first love was a man.
|by Anonymous||reply 123||06/22/2013|
R123 it's always possible Frank Ocean is bisexual, I know a lot of bisexual men myself included who first fell in love with a man even though we were sexually attracted to women and had crushes on girls/women. I don't listen to his music though but at least he has the guts to come out unlike a lot of deeply closeted rap/hip hop artists both male and female, or even the ones that are living in glass closets (cough) Queen Latifah (cough)
|by Anonymous||reply 124||06/22/2013|
R120 - I can find Savage's writing about African-American support for Prop 8.
I can find anywhere where he said anything close to your paraphrase: "savage himself said how black people in the state of California were solely to blame for prop 8 passing and being voted in"
Solely to blame?
I like the guy's podcast. I don't read his column. I've never read any of his books.
But honestly - I don't see where all the hate comes from.
|by Anonymous||reply 125||06/22/2013|
why the fuck does Dan Savage need to weigh in on Frank Ocean? i'm unclear when Savage was elected President of the Gays? Who cares what he thinks about Frank Ocean. In fact, who cares about Frank Ocean?
|by Anonymous||reply 127||06/22/2013|
I don't get the Dan Savage hate on here.
Screeching that he's a racist over and over and over doesn't really make a case imho, but carry on.
|by Anonymous||reply 128||06/22/2013|
[quote]not even a native of Seattle or the Pacific Northwest
Which, as any Seattlite will tell you, is all that matters in Seattle.
|by Anonymous||reply 129||06/22/2013|
Savage did indeed write that blacks in CA were responsible for the passing of Prop 8. Then he learned it wasn't true and deleted his comments. Deleted and not corrected.
Google "Dan Savage blacks prop 8" and you'll get tons of items about this.
|by Anonymous||reply 130||06/22/2013|
I thought black voters in CA were the swing vote for Prop 8. Is that not true?
|by Anonymous||reply 131||06/22/2013|
Likewise, r125. Savage's views on Prop 8 echoed the views of many other pundits in the media.
As I remember it: He said that it seemed egregious that black people, as the historic victims of discrimination, would turn around and vote to discriminate against another minority. True. But it's important to remember, he continued, that the true victims of black homophobia are people who are black and LGBT. All sensible, factual and correct imho.
Many, many pundits in the media commented on the reports that black people voted in high numbers for Prop 8. Imho it was actually heterosexual progressives who were most shocked by such reports. (Gay people are well-acquainted with black homophobia). The numbers weren't correct, but no one had any way of knowing that until after the brouhaha, and the basic outline of the argument was the same. It was shocking that black people would do that AT ALL, nevermind the numbers.
Don't know why people screech the way they do that it was over the top racism. Many het news sources commented in a similar way (or even in stronger language) and I doubt these posters shrieked with quite the same level of hysteria at them.
|by Anonymous||reply 132||06/22/2013|
He did correct his interpretation of the Prop 8 result. He said that when he really got into the numbers it was an age issue - not a race issue.
I don't know what you want from him. Oh no wait, I do know what you want from him - a fantasy level of perfection. He's a famous, out, gay man so the standard you have for him and the harshness with which you judge his every utterance is magnified a thousand times.
He's a decent guy who has done decent things for gay people. Just shut up, idiots.
|by Anonymous||reply 133||06/22/2013|
Here's Savage's commentary, r130. And it resembles nothing as you describe, and you conveniently omitted any link to anything at all.
"black voters in CA were the swing vote"
Define "swing vote," r131. Since the Proposition passed by 2-3% you could take any demographic or subgroup and say that they were the "swing vote." The shock, at the time, particularly among white het progressives, was that blacks had voted in high numbers for Prop 8. I don't think anyone is really shocked by black homophobia anymore.
|by Anonymous||reply 134||06/22/2013|
Jezebel post: Dan Savage Has Stopped Blaming Black Voters For Prop 8
A week ago, Dan Savage posted a now-invisible (but helpfully-cached) rant about how difficult it was for him to "[pretend that] the handful of racist gay white men out there — and they’re out there, and I think they’re scum — are a bigger problem for African Americans, gay and straight, than the huge numbers of homophobic African Americans are for gay Americans."
Dan has apparently changed his mind about whether the black community is to blame for Prop 8's passage in California. He appeared on the Colbert Report last night and said, "I don't feel like we can pin this all on the African-American community." He's now blaming it on old people "and they're dying, which is some comfort."
Although he doesn't address his earlier writings at all, he does crack Steven Colbert up, so watch and enjoy his anal sex jokes.
|by Anonymous||reply 135||06/22/2013|
Despite all the hoopla and accolades last year, Frank Ocean is fizzling this year. His bizarre and lackluster Grammy performance turned the media and public against him, but his music is just not radio-friendly. He has not really had a bona fide song hit despite respectable album sales. Meanwhile, Miguel has produced music that not gets rave critical reviews, but climbs the charts and garners radio play.
|by Anonymous||reply 136||06/22/2013|
"the handful of racist gay white men out there — and they’re out there, and I think they’re scum — are [not] a bigger problem for African Americans, gay and straight, than the huge numbers of homophobic African Americans are for gay Americans."
This is a true statement, and there is still no quote in which Savage pins Prop 8 solely on blacks.
|by Anonymous||reply 137||06/22/2013|
R134 How does this, taken by itself, translate into "Dan Savage is a racist"? I mean, I don't really like the guy ("It Gets Better" is true for maybe 35% of us). But I have no reason to think Dan is a racist. Obviously, I believed black voters were who made Prop 8 happened until tonight, so I don't think it's an uncommon viewpoint.
|by Anonymous||reply 138||06/22/2013|
r138, I'm one of the ones defending Savage against the attacks here, so I agree with you. It doesn't add up to the racism that some posters are screeching about.
|by Anonymous||reply 139||06/22/2013|
"Racist" gets screamed easily and frequently around here, R139 R134. Sorry to mistake you for a screamer.
|by Anonymous||reply 140||06/22/2013|
No matter what Savage first wrote and no matter what he took back, the fact is that African-American religious leaders supported Prop 8.
They've been using their anti-gay tactics this year in Illinois. This time, it appears as if Black religious leaders may have convinced enough Democrats in the Illinois House of Representatives to oppose SB 10, a bill that would have legalized same-sex marriage in the state.
One of the Democrats who is believed to have been pressured by Black clergymen in the Chicago area to oppose SB 10 is Eddie Lee Jackson, a Black Democrat from East St. Louis.
|by Anonymous||reply 141||06/22/2013|
It is not surprising that Dan is racist. So many gay men are racist and are filled with the most vile hatred for all kinds of ethnic groups.
I hate to say it, but some of the worst racists I have met are gay.
|by Anonymous||reply 142||06/22/2013|
I hate to say it, but some of the worst homophobes I have met are gay.
|by Anonymous||reply 143||06/22/2013|
But you don't hate to say it, Blanche at r142. You love to say it because you know that the general political stance of the gay community is left-progressive, and most gay people will abjectly bend over backwards to prove they're not racist.
I guarantee you gay people live in less segregated neighborhoods, less segregated urban areas. Het white racism is less visible because society is structured so that their racism remains invisible.
Hets don't send their kids to school with black people. Period. It's a far more serious form of racism than an anonymous joke online or whatever bullshit you imagine makes gay people so egregiously racist. End of story.
|by Anonymous||reply 144||06/22/2013|
It was NOT only old people who supported Prop 8.
Black churchgoers have historically opposed marriage equality in recent years. While Maryland was successful in passing marriage equality, the major oppostion came from Black congregations in Prince Georges County. While Catholic bishops spoke out against gay marriage, their congregations supported marriage equality.
|by Anonymous||reply 145||06/22/2013|
Uh-huh. Except for the fact that Dan Savage is not a racist, your post is fabulous, R144.
You're an idiot.
|by Anonymous||reply 146||06/22/2013|
When you call someone an idiot, r146, it's best to make sure that what you say just beforehand isn't incomprehensible gibberish.
|by Anonymous||reply 147||06/22/2013|
Frank Ocean is the worst Tweeter ever. Boring and self-centered.
|by Anonymous||reply 148||06/22/2013|
Two weeks ago, the Illinois House failed to act on pending legislation that would have allowed same-sex couples in Illinois to marry. The bill had passed the Illinois Senate on Valentine's Day, Illinois Governor Pat Quinn had proudly promised to sign the bill into law, both of Illinois' United States senators enthusiastically endorsed the legislation, the speaker of the Illinois House, the Illinois attorney general, every major newspaper in Illinois, and a majority of Illinois' citizens supported the legislation.
Nonetheless, Representative Greg Harris, the sponsor of the legislation, declined at the last moment to call the bill for a vote. After many months of tireless work by many thousands of Illinois citizens, Harris, who is a hero on this issue, tearfully announced that he did not have the votes to enact the law because "several of my colleagues have indicated that they would not be willing to cast a vote on this bill today." And so the matter was shelved for another day.
How did this happen? One might then have expected clear sailing in the Illinois House, where the Democrats hold a 71 to 47 majority. But it did not work out that way.
By all accounts, a major reason for the disappointing outcome in the House was the opposition/hesitancy/anxiety of the House Black Caucus, which includes 20 African-American Democrats. Given the political makeup of the Illinois House, the House Black Caucus clearly had the numbers to dictate the outcome. The members of the House Black Caucus chose to derail the effort to legalize marriage for same-sex couples in Illinois.
|by Anonymous||reply 149||06/22/2013|
[quote]Frank Ocean is the worst Tweeter ever.
I guess we [italic]do[/italic] have to hate him, then.
|by Anonymous||reply 150||06/22/2013|
We live in California. Dan is correct that an overwhelming number of black leaders, ordinary black people, and black church leaders supported Prop 8. That is a fact. It was widely reported in the LA Times while it was happening. If black people do not want to be called out for supporting bigotry, then don't support bigotry! Plain and simple. You don't get a free pass on being an unkind human being just because you are black. And trust me, if it were not Constitutionally outlawed, you could easily pass an amendment in the U.S. banning black people form marrying outside their race. That's whythese types of laws are so unfair, because the minority will always be subjected to the hatred and illogic of the majority. Racism is sadly alive and kicking, but so is anti gay drivel masquerading as "religious/cultural concerns".
|by Anonymous||reply 151||06/24/2013|