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DALLAS, 6/13/2012: Changing of the Guard

All the laughter, all the tears ...

John Ross grew up to be a hottie.

Christopher grew up to be a man with gynocomastia.

Sue Ellen grew up to be the Governor of Texas.

All this, and the return of the iconic Dallas theme and title card sequence, on tonight's first episode of DALLAS in 21 years!

Let's live blog the shit out of this bitch.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 58302/14/2013

Synopsis:

Two decades since viewers last saw them, the Ewings are back. Television's first family of drama, sabotage, secrets and betrayal are gathering at Southfork Ranch for the upcoming wedding of Bobby's adopted son, Christopher, to Rebecca Sutter. Although the occasion is joyous, an old family rivalry crosses generations after secret oil drilling on Southfork results in a major gusher. Everyone has his or her own agenda when the fight over oil and land threatens to tear the Ewings apart once again.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 106/13/2012

She's come a long way.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 206/13/2012

Originally, the Ray and Lucy subplot was phased out and they hoped viewers would forget about it because they were retconned to be uncle and niece.

DVD has taken care of that. Now we all remember.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 406/13/2012

The house used in the original miniseries, with it's grand porch and the little cottages out back has since burned down but it was a much more suitable home for the Ewings than that 70s home.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 506/13/2012

I hated those rednecks and how they were celebrated as heroes for the 80s. Whatever happened to the graceful rich?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 606/13/2012

Yep looking forward to it. Wonder what theyre gonna do for season finale? Someone will get shot and or pam will show up i bet.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 706/13/2012

How often will Jesse be taking his shirt off and let us get a gander at those beautiful mammories?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 806/13/2012

Two hours, sluts.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 906/13/2012

I'm ready - was a kid during the 80's and watched the last few seasons of Dallas. Good times, good times.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 1006/13/2012

Am I gonna be the only person watching this?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 1106/13/2012

nice, love that theme music!

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 1206/13/2012

First surprise of the night: Jesse Metcalfe gets top billing.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 1306/13/2012

So what happ to the Pam character?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 1406/13/2012

Can someone take a weed whacker to Hagman's eyebrows, please?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 1506/13/2012

I can suspend a lot of disbelief, but not that the kid who played Christopher grew up to be Jesse Metcalf. Altho Jesse looks damn fine.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 1606/13/2012

So much for southern accents.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 1706/13/2012

At this point, they're part of the story, R15.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 1806/13/2012

I usually think Metcalf is a douche, but I'll admit he looks hot here. I'd love a threesome with him and Henderson.

And does Linda Gray bathe in the blood of virgins or something? I realize there's plastic surgery and botox and all that, but the woman's 72!

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 1906/13/2012

okay, the Spanish accents just went right out the window too.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 2006/13/2012

lol, right on cue r3

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 2106/13/2012

obligatory shirts off scene 24 minutes in, yeah!

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 2206/13/2012

Question about the original series:

When Bobby appeared unexpectedly in the shower at the end of that season finale - had it already been reported that Patrick Duffy was returning to the show, so the only mystery was about how the show would justify it?

Or had it been kept secret from the media, so that viewers actually were shocked to see him on screen?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 2306/13/2012

Viewers knew Patrick Duffy was returning. The surprise was how they brought him back.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 2406/13/2012

Okay, it's good.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 2506/13/2012

The guys are hot but so far no one beats the breathtaking beauty of Sasha Mitchell. I was a closeted teen and when they introduced Sasha as JR's son I swooned.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 2606/13/2012

Yeah, this is good so far. Hagman is as rascally as ever. The boys are cute--I don't know which one is hotter of the two. Duffy looks pretty well-preserved, but Linda Gray looks GREAT for 71.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 2706/13/2012

I forgot about Sasha Mitchell. It is a little odd when you think about it that John Ross Jr. and Christopher are like early 20's, when they really should be more like mid to late 30's already.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 2806/13/2012

Can I call Brenda Strong 'New Pam'?

It's just easier.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 2906/13/2012

damn R28. time flies. He was sooo hot.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 3006/13/2012

R28, that's not Sasha Mitchell. That's Costas Mandylor. THIS is Sasha Mitchell...

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 3106/13/2012

Sasha got HUGE a few years ago--muscularly huge

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 3206/13/2012

So how are they going to explain Pam not being at her son's wedding?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 3306/13/2012

Costas Mandylor, the Greek hunk who starred on "Picket Fences" and currently starred in some of the "Saw" films, was HOT in his day as well, with lips so full that they looked taylor made for sucking cock. See, now you all have me wanting to see a Sasha Mitchell/Costas Mandylor fuckfest.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 3406/13/2012

Oh, well. I googled Sasha Mitchell and found a Sasha Mitchell page. That was one of the photos. I was trying to think of who it looked like - but yeah, Costas.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 3506/13/2012

Can someone tell the story of what happened when Barbara Bel Geddes left the show and Donna Reed took over, and then Bel Geddes decided to come back, so they fired Reed and she sued? Wikipedia is sketchy on the details - was this a big media story? Did the public sympathize with Reed, or did everybody just like having the original Miss Ellie back and didn't give a shit about Reed's contract?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 3606/13/2012

Damn! Linda Gray looks fantastic. She alone makes this show worth watching, especially if she remains as big a bitch as she seems in the pilot.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 3706/13/2012

R32, damn he is huge. bloated almost. but damn he's sexy.

True story about Barbara Bel Geddes - years ago I was volunteering at a PBS pledge drive in Maine. Barbara must have been a summer resident, because she called and made a generous donation. I didn't call her "Miss Ellie" but I was giddy during the call.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 3806/13/2012

Southfork social gatherings = drama.

Some things never change.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 3906/13/2012

So... good? Yes? No? So far I like it.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 4006/13/2012

Jordana Brewster looks horribly anorexic.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 4106/13/2012

I think it's REALLY good.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 4206/13/2012

"Blood may be thicker than water, but oil is thicker than both." Hot damn, that J.R. is somethin' else!

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 4306/13/2012

Was Charlene Tilton in the first episode? Did I blink and miss it? I thought I saw her name in the credits for the first hour.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 4406/13/2012

First sign of trouble: Larry Hagman reading the cue cards.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 4506/13/2012

I agree R41. It's really unsettling. The other girl seems much more healty and attractive by comparison.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 4606/13/2012

You probably didn't recognize her. she looks rough.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 4706/13/2012

Why was Jesse Metcalfe hired to be in this? Why not hire someone other than a B-actor?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 4806/13/2012

Damn, they're bringing back the Cattle Barons' Ball? They're bringing out the big dogs now.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 4906/13/2012

The live cast round-up is on right now at DallasTNT.com, hosted by Cameron Matheison.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 5006/13/2012

It overstayed its welcome the first time around by going for several seasons longer than it needed to.

Why bring it back?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 5106/13/2012

r28 - Actually, they would be 30 & 32 so the 2 actors are about the right ages.

Too bad they didn't cast the little gayling who played John Ross in the original series. Old boy J.R. coming to terms with that would be so much more interesting. Anything would be more interesting than him being a carbon copy of his dad (minus the charisma).

r44 - Lucy & Ray were at the wedding.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 5206/14/2012

Was Pam mentioned? What became of her? Is she dead?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 5306/14/2012

Pam was involved in a horrific accident at the end of the 1986-87 season that disfigured her. She left from the hospital so Bobby and Christopher would not have to endure her.

They did cast a lookalike for a brief scene a few years later, I heard.

Thing is, if they bring Principal back for a guest shot, she would look disfigured due to all that plastic surgery, so it'd make sense.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 5406/14/2012

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the earlier series wasn't it the Oil Baron's Ball, not Cattle?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 5506/14/2012

The show came alive every time JR was onscreen. Hagman's still got it.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 5606/14/2012

[quote]in the earlier series wasn't it the Oil Baron's Ball, not Cattle?

You are correct.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 5706/14/2012

the oil industry has probably changed since then so it was a good move re: the name of the ball.

I've seen the next five or so episodes (work in the media, here) and it's very good; solid, in fact and I'm a diehard Dallas fan. The show moves, good twists, people stay in character, a few familiar faces return.

Personally, though, I won't be happy until Pam Ewing comes back and there's a showdown between her and Ann.

I wouldn't mind seeing Marilee Stone, Sly, Phyllis and a few others in cameos.

I'd also like to see Jordana eat a cheeseburger. Girl is way too thin.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 5806/14/2012

Kudos to the casting people to this time showing lots more Latino and African-American faces rather than just Teresa and Raul.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 5906/14/2012

Metcalfe got top billing in the first episode, but Henderson got it in the second. I assume they'll switch back and forth. (American Horror Story did that with Connie Britton and Dylan McDermott last year, though they're a hell of a lot more famous.) Either way, I'm glad to see they kept an actual opening credits sequence when so many shows today have gotten rid of them.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 6006/14/2012

Hopefully in season 2 (which I hope there will be) they'll do the old style credits of showing faces...audiences will be more invested in the characters by then.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 6106/14/2012

[quote]I won't be happy until Pam Ewing comes back and there's a showdown between her and Ann.

I don't see where there would be any showdown. Pam walked away from Bobby, she gave him up.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 6206/14/2012

R44, Charlene Tilton appears at the wedding in episode one and looks positively ghastly. She's clearly had no work done and has not aged well...her neck has more rings than a fossilized tree. Steve Kanaly (Ray) looks ok.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 6306/14/2012

There were tons of inconsistencies in the pilot.

First off John-Ross wouldn't be that ruthless. Yes he is J.R. son. But Sue Ellen is the one who really raised him. In fact his teen years were spent living with Sue Ellen in London. So when John Ross says Sue Ellen stuck him in boarding schools, that is simply not true.

Plus when John Ross said he had no money, that Uncle Bobby cut him off. Both Jock and Miss Ellie created rather large trust funds for John Ross. At least 10 million.

Christopher doesn't need to ask Bobby for money, because he actually has more money that John Ross.

As the only heir to Wentworth industries, he inherits it all. In addition to trust funds from Jock, Miss Ellie, Rebecca Wentworth, and Mark Graison, he has four times as much money as John Ross does. He could have used his Wentworth stock into financing his venture.

The long-time maid was named Theresa, not Carmen. I know that is a small thing, but it would have been nice to be consistent.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 6406/14/2012

Overall it was above average. Loved the look of the show. The dallas scenery was great. It looked sleek and modern and allowed the show to breathe. Interiors of southfork were different. Guess they remodeled inside the ranch the last 20 years. Really felt charlene and steve were wasted and coulda gave them more to do. Loved hagman and gray. That is the way every 70 yr old woman should look! The younger actors were good and felt liked they belonged in the dallas tapestry. Hopefully a lot of actors from the original series will put in an appearance. Gotta get victoria back even if its a couple of episodes.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 6506/14/2012

Linda Gray's right eye looked odd to me, like she had some kind of growth or excess tissue. It distracted the hell out of me.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 6606/14/2012

R64, Theresa was the maid/housekeeper.

We only really saw Theresa bring the food to the table and not cook it so maybe Carmen was created and we have to imagine her in the kitchen even though the only person we ever saw cooking in there was Miss Ellie.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 6706/14/2012

Wouldn't Cliff have the Wentworth fortune right now?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 6806/14/2012

It should be the only heir to Pam's Wentworth fortune.

But All of Wenworth industries was split 3 ways between Cliff, Pam and Katharine.

All of Pam's shares were given to Christopher after she ran off, held in trust until he became an adult.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 6906/14/2012

I wonder if the whole "Christopher isn't even a real Ewing" was deliberately and pointedly brought up so much so that they could set up a reveal that he is JR's son.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 7006/14/2012

Josh Henderson played Edie's hot nephew on Desperate Housewives several years ago.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 7106/14/2012

Jordana Brewster used to be very pretty.

I don't know if she had bad work done on her face, or got too skinny.

Maybe it's both?

The young leads are both hot.

Hope they don't kill Bobby off.

How much longer does Hagman have left? Sad to see him looking so old.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 7206/14/2012

Larry Hagman is now older that Jim Davis lived to be.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 7306/14/2012

that=than

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 7406/14/2012

R36 Barbara left at the end of the 1984 season. It was reported at the time that she left for health reasons but has been revealed since that she wanted more money and producers showed her the door. Producers hired reed but critics, the cast and the public hated her glamorous portrayal of miss ellie instead of barbaras earth mother depiction. I thought donna was fine and had great chemistry with the cast. Donna in my mind was a close second but barbara WAS miss ellie. Barbara phoned producers and said she wanted to come back. Producers im sure felt with patrick duffy and charlene tilton leaving they needed her back to keep ratings up. Reed sued and was paid for her entire contract. Glad she took them for the whole contract. Terrible the way she was treated.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 7506/14/2012

r64 - Yeah, John Ross's character doesn't make sense. Plus, he was always characterized as a soft, sensitive kid. And why does he keep bleating about being a real Ewing when he hates or disdains all the other Ewings? (his dad, Bobby, Miss Ellie)

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 7606/14/2012

At this point I don't even know if I want Pam back. I like Ann already wouldn't want her replaced by Pam. An Pam just as trouble maker may not work for me because there is no satisfactory ending if they don't get together in the end. How long were Bobby and Pam actually married? 4 years before the first divorce and a couple months before the second? Bobby and Ann are married for seven years now.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 7706/14/2012

They said that they respected the timeline. But that doesn't seem to be true when it comes to the two TV movies. To me it looks like they ignored the movies completely. Ewing Oil should be in Bobby's and Sue Ellens hand. But maybe I am overly critical. In soap world things can get overturned within just one tv season. Maybe they lost Ewing Oil to Clff Barnes once again within the last ten years. And Theresa may have quit right after JR shot himself in the mirror, so Carmen is with the Ewings since then and possibly longer at Southfork than Theresa ever was.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 7806/14/2012

Reed also died soon after the lawsuit so it was a sad ending overall. The producers had wanted Peyton Place actress Dorothy Malone to replace Bel Geddes, as she lived in Turtle Creek, the Dallas subdivision at the time, but she was tagged for Lorimar's potential re-boot of PP they did not work.

I can't stand Ann. Dull, dull, dull.

Where is Bobby's son with Jenna? Where is James, J.R.'s son with Vanessa Beaumont? What about Gary and Val's twins, Bobby and Betsy. This show has tons of potential.

With the death of all the daytime soaps, seeing Dallas do so well in the ratings (7 million viewers is not bad for cable) is heartening.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 7906/14/2012

[quote]As the only heir to Wentworth industries, he inherits it all. In addition to trust funds from Jock, Miss Ellie, Rebecca Wentworth, and Mark Graison, he has four times as much money as John Ross does. He could have used his Wentworth stock into financing his venture.

I just think this kind of stuff is too much backstory. They want to make an entertaining show that will appeal to people who didn't watch Dallas or only have distant memories of it -- if they brought in every story point from the original series (all 14 convoluted years of it) the new show would collapse under the weight of it.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 8006/14/2012

R77 I know ann has upcoming storyline but i really wasnt impressed with her too much last night. Pam will always be an important part of the dallas story. Victoria really needs to come back. Patrick and victoria had such perfect chemistry. I think it would be compelling if pam came back a changed woman due to the car crash, the extensive plastic surgery and if katherine held her prisoner all these years. Pam wouldnt voluntarily stay away from bobby and christopher. Katherine holding her captive all these years makes the most sense. A changed pam with a radically different personality would create conflict and storyline.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 8106/14/2012

Problem is Victoria doesn't want to come back. That ship has sailed.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 8206/14/2012

That's not true r82. You need to read the Wikipedia article on Victoria Principal. She's totally open to coming back because Patrick Duffy and Jesse Metcalf had told her themselves that they would love to have her show up.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 8306/14/2012

The day of the supersoap is over.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 8406/14/2012

Patrick Duffy said recently that Victoria has retired from acting and isn't interested in coming back. Her last acting credit was Titans, back in 2000. Even then I remember that she had it in her contract that she didn't have to work more than 3 days a week. It would certainly be nice, though, if she'd do a couple of episodes. Maybe next season.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 8506/14/2012

Victoria must really be loaded with all her HSN money...Probably doesn't need to come back for the money.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 8606/14/2012

I remember thinking way back in the 80s that Linda Gray would probably age very badly. Boy, was I ever wrong. She looks FABULOUS! Good for her!

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 8706/14/2012

Bet Vicky Principal, though younger, would not look as good as Linda does. 72- amazing !

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 8806/14/2012

I've only seen the first 45 minutes, but Linda Gray was barely doing anything in it. On its face it's ridiculous to think Sue Ellen would run for governor. Almost literally she has too many dead bodies in the closet and no qualifications I can think of. Can't wait to see the story behind that.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 8906/14/2012

People--Really----Get over Victoria Principal/Pam Ewing already. It's been 25 years..move on!

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 9006/14/2012

R89 - what qualifications did W have? Or GoodHair Perry?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 9106/14/2012

"I was imprisoned on charges of shooting my husband while wearing a fabulous black and white dress. I am Texas gubernatorial material through and through and will serve the people of Texas well. People. People who need people... are the luckiest people in the world... "

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 9206/14/2012

Fuck, where to begin?

R23, R24 is mostly wrong. It was a TOTAL shock to everyone to see Bobby Ewing in that shower. The scene was shot in secret, and everyone on the set filming the one shower scene was told it was for a soap commercial. The part that remained a mystery over the summer was the method the writers would use to bring him back, which was the now-infamous "all of last season was just a dream..." plot.

R33, the eldergays on this thread seem to have forgotten that Pam is dead. Yes, Bobby found her the season after Victoria Principal left, her face altered by surgery, but she didn't reveal herself because she only had months to live.

Cattle Baron's Ball vs. Oil Baron's Ball: the writers are really screwing with continuity here. The Cattle Baron's Ball actually exists and has for decades, and as depicted on last night's episode, it's a fundraiser for the American Cancer Society. It does not, however, take place at American Airlines Arena downtown, as depicted last night, but in an amusingly ironic twist, the 2011 ball was held at Southfork itself. The only problem is that it was never shown on the show; the fictitious Oil Baron's Ball was created and shown nearly every season on "Dallas," where hijinks usually transpired.

Barbara Bel Geddes - allegedly, Larry Hagman personally convinced her to come back after it became painfully obvious how out of place Donna Reed was in the role, and also convinced the producers to meet her ask. She only stayed a few more seasons before she and new hubby Clayton took a permanent "trip around the world."

R64 is correct about the inconsistencies, although in theory both John Ross and Christopher could've burned through all their inherited money. It's not at all implausible that Christopher could've spent it all trying to get his methane energy project off the ground - that type of thing costs hundreds of millions of dollars. As for John Ross, we already know Bobby inherited Southfork, not J.R., and the Ewings somehow lost Ewing Oil to Cliff Barnes, so maybe J.R. plundered his son's trust trying to fight off Barnes's takeover attempt.

R89, it is not implausible that Sue Ellen could run for governor, particularly since she appears to be independently wealthy. A Texas oil magnate with no previous political experience, Clayton Williams, ran decades ago, and Sue Ellen being an alcoholic wouldn't hurt her, either, given that the much-beloved Ann Richards had a horrible drinking problem in her past as well (and of course W had his booze and coke issues).

I have plenty of inconsistency issues with the premiere, however, but I'll save that for the next post...

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 9306/14/2012

Will they bring back Knots Landing now? We want Val and wicked wicked Abby!!!!!!!

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 9406/14/2012

I really hope freaks like R93 don't ruin the discussion of this show on the board by freaking out over every fucking continuity "error". They need to set a lot of that bullshit aside in order to even have a show. Who cares what happened on the last Dallas?

Get over it.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 9506/14/2012

R93, Bel Geddes came back in the Fall of 1985 and stayed until the Spring of 1990. More than just a few more seasons.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 9606/14/2012

Larry Hagman was a complete asshole on the set. He was beyond cruel to Donna Reed and still refuses to even address her by her name when that whole period is brought up in interviews.

He was the star of the show and he never let everyone else forget that for even a moment. But the reality was that Duffy and Principal were the true stars of the show.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 9706/14/2012

Inconsistencies:

--Opening shot shows "Southfork Ranch, Dallas, Texas" - Southfork was *never* in, or even near, Dallas! It's in the town of Bradock in Bradock County. This inconsistently carried over into the scene where Elena was trying to get money from Sue Ellen and showed her a map of the land she wanted to buy. The map showed Collin County, which in real life is where Southfork is located but which hasn't previously ever been mentioned in the "Dallas" universe.

--The house: good God, they have a fucking massive budget and shoot the whole thing on location in Dallas, and yet they can't manage to build at least a *close* replica of the original Southfork interiors on a soundstage?? What you saw last night was the actual Southfork interior, which was never used on the show (a mansion in Dallas's Turtle Creek neighborhood, later reproduced on a Hollywood soundstage, was used for interior filming because the actual house was much smaller and less luxurious than depicted on TV). Yes, the house has clearly been substantially updated and modernized, but the floor plan doesn't come remotely close to matching what was seen on the old show.

--The cars: where are the EWING license plates (EWING 2 for J.R., EWING 3 for Bobby, etc.)?? That was a staple of the original! Now we just get standard, boring Texas plates. At least Christopher was believably driving a Tesla electric-powered roadster, something fitting his environmentalist character, and Sue Ellen's chauffeur-driven Porsche Panamera fit well, too.

--Land sizes - whoever that Del Sol fake woman is is incorrect that the Hearsts bestowed the largest swaths of protected land. Their estates are legendary, but only for the size of their houses, not the land they're on. The biggest land donation in Texas history, at least, was the 250,000 acres in West Texas that is now the Big Bend Ranch National Park; Southfork OTOH is supposed to be over 400,000 acres, comparable to the King Ranch in South Texas.

--Former lovers Ray and Lucy are the only Ewing guests at Christopher's wedding? WTF? "Uncle Cliff couldn't make it" sounds like total bullshit.

--Christopher and John Ross have fancy lofts overlooking downtown Dallas? Why?! They should all be living at Southfork, like always! And J.R. in a nursing home? Seriously??? If not at Southfork, why wouldn't he be at, say, a villa in the South of France with a whole bevy of home health aide staff?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 9806/14/2012

[quote]But the reality was that Duffy and Principal were the true stars of the show.

Horseshit. The show was *originally* designed as a star vehicle for Victoria Principal, but even just after the six-episode "miniseries" that launched the show, it was clear that J.R. was the star.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 9906/14/2012

R99 - Hagman was an established star when Dallas started, Principal was not.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 10006/14/2012

R100, feel free to read a biography on the history of the show, as I have. As originally conceived, the show's perspective was going to be Pam's as an outsider in the Ewing clan, and she would've been front and center in resolving the show's issue-of-the-week. This was, of course, before the show turned into a soap.

Btw at the time Patrick Duffy was the biggest star of the bunch, having just come from starring in "Man From Atlantis." Hagman had descended into guest-starring roles on TV movies after his "I Dream of Jeannie" years, and was mostly a has-been.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 10106/14/2012

Can someone refresh my memory ?

-Who was Katherine ?

-Christopfer was described as a 'foundling'. Can someone explain his parentage and how he wound up with Bobby?

Thanks

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 10206/14/2012

Katherine = Pam and Cliff's mother

Christopher was Kristen's child with Jeff Faraday. So, he's genetically Sue Ellen's nephew.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 10306/14/2012

Remember when Susan Lucci was on? Not for long...

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 10406/14/2012

I remember the E! True Hollywood story of Dallas saying that Donna Reed was not treated well by the crew who intentionally lit her to make her look as bad as possible during filming.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 10506/14/2012

Hagman was the big star in the first couple of seasons. Who shot J.R. was his biggest moment. But Duffy and especially Principal soon began to eclipse him. Principal was quite the popular sex symbol in the early to mid 80's. And she got a lot of press from dating Andy Gibb. It was also a big coup when they got Priscilla Presley signed on board.

Hagman alone wasn't enough to keep the show running, which is why they brought Duffy back. A foolish decision, but that's how popular the Bobby and Pam romance was.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 10606/14/2012

R93 This is soap opera land! Pam could very well be alive. The last scene the character had was her telling her doctor she had months to live. No body or funeral after this. This is actually pretty easy for the writers to get around if they chose to revive the character. And r103 katherine is pam and cliffs sister not mother. She was a psycho who wanted bobby for herself and hated pam. Totally plausible that she would keep pam captive for years to keep her away from bobby if they chose to bring victoria back. If katherine couldnt have him theres no way pam would. Katherine could have nursed pam back to health if she was dying or the woman who said this could have been an imposter to keep cliff or bobby off her trail.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 10706/14/2012

Dallas and Knots Landing divorced after Dallas brought back Bobby. Since Gary started drinking again after Bobby "died" and one of the twins was named after him, Knots Landing and Dallas went their separate ways.

However, after all these years I'm sure they could just ignore that like they ignored many other things.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 10806/14/2012

more on Christopher's parentage:

Kristin Shepard, Sue Ellen's younger sister, leaves Dallas after having an affair with Sue Ellen's husband, J. R and then shooting him.

The cocaine-addicted Kristin settles in Los Angeles where she becomes involved with drug dealer, Jeff Faraday. She gives birth to him on August 18, 1981.[3] Kristin returns to Dallas claiming Christopher is J.R.'s son and tries to extort money from him.

When Kristin drowns in a pool, Jeff contacts Bobby Ewing, who purchases Christopher for $25,000 and legally adopts the boy with his wife, Pamela Barnes.

In 1983, Pamela's mother Rebecca dies leaving a large trust fund for Christopher. His parents divorce that year and during that time, Christopher lives with Pamela.[3] Christopher is overjoyed when his parents remarry in 1986 and move back to Southfork Ranch, where he is reunited with his cousin, John Ross.

In 1987, Christopher and John Ross have a mock gunfight and Sue Ellen sends them to play outside. Unable to find a toy gun, Christopher takes Bobby's revolver and after some "hide and seek", he takes a shot at John Ross; fortunately he misses, only shattering a screen door.

In May 1987, Christopher is devastated when he accidentally overhears a conversation between his grandparents about his being adopted.

His parents comfort him and explain their reasons for not initially telling him the truth. Christopher's life is turned upside-down when Pamela has a bad car accident; when Bobby keeps him away from the hospital, the boy believes it is because he is adopted.

Soon after, Pamela disappears from the hospital leaving a note for Bobby, claiming she didn't want anyone to see how badly burned she actually was.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 10906/14/2012

Ted Shakleford turned down a guest spot on the new Dallas. It would be a cameo with him, Ray and Lucy standing around saying one line.

Ted didn't think it was worth his time.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 11006/14/2012

It would have been a waste of time, R110, given how much attention was paid to Ray and Lucy. I literally blinked and missed them entirely.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 11106/14/2012

How does Charlene look these days?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 11206/14/2012

Are you asking from the future, R112? How did you get here?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 11306/14/2012

Rode hard & put away wet.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 11406/14/2012

r112, with as much reference as there is here to trolls, if you want to what a real one looks like, see Charlene.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 11506/14/2012

I have no idea what you homos are talking about.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 11606/14/2012

So what do you all (yall?) think of the story? Everybody is talking about the old characters but not about the story. I thought it was solid but not magnificent. It felt 'small' to me. One oil field on Southfork that wasn't suppose to be. Compared to Ewing Oil and the magnitude the old stories had this felt insignificant to me. J.R. or John Ross and Christopher need to get Ewing Oil back. And then keep it, for chrissake.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 11706/14/2012

Keep in mind that it took some time for the original series to find its way and really get going.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 11806/14/2012

R117 They might get ewing oil back as the show evolves but the fight for ewing oil really has been done to death for 13 years with the original series. I thought the story with the fight for southfork and to drill or not to drill was good. The question of how low jr and john ross would stoop in the name of greed to drill on their families beloved ranch. I agree charlene is looking rough! linda gray looked better and is 20 years older!

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 11906/14/2012

I thought it looked "small" too - and kind of cheap - looked more like apartments than a grand ranch. I guess TNT doesn't have much money to spend on this after paying the salaries.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 12006/14/2012

An eldergay thread if I ever did see one. Avoid!!

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 12106/14/2012

Hagman and Gray hate Victoria Principal and there is no way they will let her be on the show.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 12206/14/2012

I was on John Ross's side. They can't put up a few drills on that property? When there's that much wealth to extract from it? Bobby didnt even know they were drilling, how much could it really bother him?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 12306/14/2012

[quote]Avoid!!

Yes. please do. Get the fuck out now.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 12406/15/2012

R122 i never heard larry and linda hate victoria. Besides larry is not the power behind the show anymore. If they want victoria back and she agrees you can be damn sure she will return.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 12506/15/2012

Seems to me they are taking something of a risk embarking on this with Hagman in poor health. Henderson and Metcalfe may be the theoretical leads, but ultimately, J.R. is still the reason to tune in. Maybe that will change over time, but I doubt it. It's not "Dallas" without him. They might get one season into it and then lose him.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 12606/15/2012

There sure were a lot of twists in just the first two episodes. It seems to me they could have held off on some of the reveals at least until later in the season (Multiple Martas, the brother/sister con job).

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 12706/15/2012

I was a Dynasty freak as as a baby gay, they got it about right. I really liked the pilot and ifthere were continuity errors, I didn't notice them.

(Compare it to the Dynasty reunion movie which had serious continuity errors, strange miscasting (Adam), focus on the least interesting character, Kirby, no mention of Sable, the most interesting character in the final season.)

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 12806/15/2012

Bump.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 12906/15/2012

Jesus, God, would you trim those fucking eyebrows?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 13006/15/2012

Jordana Brewster looks D-R-E-A-D-F-U-L! Obvious eating disorder, Botox from hell, dead, "cat clock" eyes. She needs an intervention ASAP.

When the theme music began I was so excited and then they trimmed it and didn't have the pictures of the cast. Why? Would it have killed them to throw up one picture of each performer with his or her name?

The show looked great to me... Pretty surroundings, beautiful lighting and videography, burnished colors. It was attractive.

Did they use incredible body makeup in order to mask all of Jesse Metcalfe's raunchy tattoos? He used to be inked like a prison inmate, but in ep 2 was as clean as a baby. What's up with that?

I thought Brenda Strong was warm and appealing! She was also strong when called for. I loved how she took a rifle to the intruder, never once calling for a man for help. She was one of my favorite characters.

Linda does look terrific. Patrick's hair is too long for a man his age, but he's still in good shape. Larry's eyebrows are horrendous. He looks awful, but he was effective in the show.

Both young guys are very hunky. Scarface is all right. The brother reads gay. It was truly sad the way they MISused Steve and Charlene, two key people from the original show reduced to extras. She looked ghastly and very, very tacky.

The one thing I did find annoying was all this Carmen/Elena stuff and how the three kids were raised together. NOT... Why couldn't the servant be Teresa? I could have dealt better with that.

The Bobby is dying thing is straight out of the first several episodes of The Colbys. Jason thought he was dying and that's what spurred him to make changes in ColbyCo.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 13106/15/2012

I'm confused. I enjoyed the show, but wonder if I missed something. Some people are talking about two episodes, but I only saw one. Was it really two hours long? My DVR cuts off with JR jr meeting with a lady in Football stadium. Was that the end? Was that lady the same working with JR to trick Bobby into selling Southfork?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 13206/15/2012

R131 - I got the impression that the brother, Tommy, and Ann are going to have a May/December/MILF thing.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 13306/15/2012

r132 - Yes, there were 2 episodes. #2 is called "Hedging Your Bets." TSN is replaying both eps a few times this weekend.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 13406/15/2012

Thats because they are using the actual interiors from the real Southfork ranch r120 which are far less glamourous than the interiors used for the original series. They did look much better though than they did in J.R. Returns and when I visisted the ranch in 2002.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 13506/15/2012

[quote]I wonder if the whole "Christopher isn't even a real Ewing" was deliberately and pointedly brought up so much so that they could set up a reveal that he is JR's son.

I'm torn on this one. They could easily go there but it would undermine the relationship between Bobby and Christopher.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 13606/15/2012

[quote] I got the impression that the brother, Tommy, and Ann are going to have a May/December/MILF thing.

I wonder if Tommy and Rebecca are even real siblings. They could be con artist lovers.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 13706/15/2012

I was wondering that too, R137, but I also wondered if they aren't going to somehow be related to Cliff Barnes or something like that. I was thinking they have to be the offspring of someone JR or the Ewing family wronged.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 13806/15/2012

It has already been proven that Christopher is not J.R. son.

Kristin miscarried J.R.'s child (hospital records proved it). Christopher's biological father is Jeff Farraday.

In later years Farraday's sister Lisa came on the scene and tried to get custody of Christopher.

It was proven in court that she is biologically Christopher's aunt.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 13906/15/2012

As a famous man once misspoke, R139, "facts are stupid things."

If the writers want to have a grand reveal that Christopher is actually J.R.'s biological son, rest assured they will do so.

I wish Duffy would cut his hair and stop using so much product. He would look so much better with a short, neat cut. He needs to trim his brows, too.

I don't think Linda Gray looks bad for 71 but I'm not getting the raves over her appearance. If she didn't have "young" hair, she'd look her age.

John Ross needs to lose those stupid chin whiskers.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 14006/15/2012

Duffy also needs to get himself some eyelid surgery.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 14106/15/2012

[quote] If the writers want to have a grand reveal that Christopher is actually J.R.'s biological son, rest assured they will do so.

So how they explain Kristin's miscarriage and Christopher's BIOLOGICAL connection to Lisa Farraday?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 14206/15/2012

****SPOILER****

Christopher does get shot. Soap fans will know what happens next.

****SPOILER****

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 14306/15/2012

Some quotes from the DALLAS article in last week's EW:

"It was a piece of cake to be close with Larry and Patrick and Linda, and not with Victoria."-Camille Marchetta, story editior 78-80

"I was probably closer to Victoria than anybody, which is understandable because of the parts we played. She sequestered herself out of the inner circle of the cast"-Patrick Duffy

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 14406/15/2012

I read that EW article as well.

Duffy surmised that Victoria may have sequestered herself because the character of Pam was an outsider to the Ewing family.

Who would have thought that Victoria Principal was a method actress.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 14506/15/2012

What I like so far on the show is the equal treatment of old generation and new generation. I was almost expecting a 90210 treatment of the Dallas remake where all the stories are about the young ones with the occasional cameo from the older generation.

I love J.R. handling the walker to make him look weak and fragile at the ball.

Looks like the email in question (that broke him and Elena up) was sent by Christopher's wife?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 14606/15/2012

R103 is wrong about Katherine being Pam and Cliff's Mom.

Katherine Wentworth was the daughter that that was raised by their Mom when she abandonded Digger.

Their mom was named Rebecca, IIRC, and she loved Bobby Ewing truly, madly, and deeply.

and almost deadly

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 14706/15/2012

no, no...Katherine Wentworth loved Bobby

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 14806/15/2012

Too bad Dack Rambo isn't still here to make a cameo as cousin Mitch.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 14906/15/2012

Ooops, I mean cousin JACK.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 15006/15/2012

So you guys have any ideas on how to bring pam back? my idea is that her entire dissappearance was engineered by katherine. She kidnapped pam from the hospital and forced her to forge the letter divorcing bobby. She paid off wentworth industry employees and hired an imposter to make the doctor think she was pam and dying to keep cliff and bobby off her trail and has kept pam imprisoned for 25 years. Pam either escapes or someone finds her and returns to dallas a scarred woman inside and out. Totally different woman from multiple traumas.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 15106/15/2012

[quote]I thought Brenda Strong was warm and appealing! She was also strong when called for. I loved how she took a rifle to the intruder, never once calling for a man for help.

Except she never did shoot the guy...and had every opportunity.

What bugged me was John Ross telling that private investigator "hey there was an email to Elena, find out who sent it"...without giving any more detail. Who can 'find an email sender' anyhow, without getting passwords and/or being some kind of hacker, anyhow?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 15206/15/2012

You know what really bothers me? The hair over Josh Henderson's lips. It's not quite a mustache. Shave it off!!!

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 15306/15/2012

If that's all that bothers you, R153, then it's not even worth mentioning.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 15406/15/2012

[quote]my idea is that her entire dissappearance was engineered by katherine.

Even with soaps, you can only stretch things so far. That's going overboard just for finding a way to bring Pam back.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 15506/15/2012

[quote]One oil field on Southfork that wasn't suppose to be. Compared to Ewing Oil and the magnitude the old stories had this felt insignificant to me.

Obviously you weren't paying very close attention, hon. They've discovered TWO BILLION barrels of oil underneath Southfork. At today's prices, that would be worth close to $200 billion total, making the Ewings the RICHEST FAMILY ON EARTH. But no, Bobby would rather hew to Miss Ellie's wishes -- that Southfork never be drilled on for oil (which admittedly dates way back to the original series) -- than be a gazillionaire and potentially cure cancer or AIDS or end famine in Africa. Anyway, what's obviously going to happen here is J.R.'s going to connive ownership of Southfork out of Bobby's hands, possibly because Bobby will have to sign over his power of attorney when he goes under the knife for his GI tumor. Now that he knows John Ross deceived him, he doesn't stand a chance against ol' J.R.

[quote]What bugged me was John Ross telling that private investigator "hey there was an email to Elena, find out who sent it"...without giving any more detail.

I agree completely, but this is standard practice for television, failing to give pertinent details such as phone numbers, addresses or details on e-mail conversations. (In reality a message sent two years earlier, as was the case here, would've long been erased from any server logs regardless, and since John Ross didn't have an electronic copy of it, they couldn't trace the sender that way, either.)

R132: the first episode ran 75 minutes, and the second ran an hour, so if your DVR cut off at 10pm, you missed the last 15 minutes.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 15606/15/2012

How the hell did John Ross get an oil rig and crew out there for drilling WITHOUT another Ewing noticing or caring?

That's a huge plot hole. We're supposed to believe that Bobby never learned of the drilling activities? Bobby, as owner, would've had to have signed the permits for such drilling.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 15706/15/2012

R155 Maybe we could write the last 4 years of dallas off as a dream that pam was in a car crash and insult the audiences intelligence again huh?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 15806/15/2012

[quote]How the hell did John Ross get an oil rig and crew out there for drilling WITHOUT another Ewing noticing or caring?

Southfork is approximately 500,000 acres in size. That's the size of TWO COUNTIES. It'd be very easy to surreptitiously do something on a remote part of the ranch.

[quote]We're supposed to believe that Bobby never learned of the drilling activities? Bobby, as owner, would've had to have signed the permits for such drilling.

Permits are for the little people. What on earth makes you think the son of J.R. Ewing would bother with such a trifling thing?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 15906/15/2012

[quote]Maybe we could write the last 4 years of dallas off as a dream that pam was in a car crash and insult the audiences intelligence again huh?

How did I know you would say that? The simple fact is that there was no "good" way to bring Bobby back from the dead. I don't know if you watched it back then, but he died on camera and was buried on Southfork. As I recall, Duffy wanted to close the door on any possible return to the show. The "dream" explanation had the advantage of simplicity, no convoluted claims of conspiracies/ impostors/imprisonment/plasticsurgery like you're asking for.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 16006/15/2012

Next?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 16106/15/2012

R160 And in the process the show lost any credibility it had by taking the lazy way out. This was reflected in the ratings when dallas went from #6 to the #11 when duffy came back. I still think bobby dying is the saddest death i have ever seen on tv. A lot of people feel the same that we were cheated. Ive said it before. THIS IS SOAP OPERA! If you can believe one character changes faces when a role is recast you can believe almost anything. Leonard katzman just didnt want to deal with a single thing from the dream season. And the result was its steady downward turn until 1991 and cancellation. It would have been more compelling to think of a better shocking way to bring duffy back.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 16206/15/2012

[quote]It would have been more compelling to think of a better shocking way to bring duffy back.

Such as? His own family saw him die and buried the body.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 16306/15/2012

R163 Did he really die? Did the family see the body in the casket? All im saying is if these questions would have been dealt with instead of writing it off as a dream it might have been better and more interesting than the same old tired stuff they came up with when duffy returned. They took for granted audiences would fall in line like they did for 8 years but people started tuning out. Victoria has even said the quality of the show started diminishing which led in part to her leaving. 86-87 season wasnt a royal disaster like the last seasons but she knew when to leave.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 16406/15/2012

I'm wondering if Tommy and Rebecca aren't fraternal twins Bobby and Betsy Ewing from Knots Landing??? Talk about a twist - Betsy wouldn't be screwing a blood relative if Chris isn't really a Ewing (well she may find out later HE is). They could be getting revenge for the way Gary was ostracized from the family?? And yes wouldn't it be great for Joan Van Ark to show up as Val with that god awful face???

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 16506/15/2012

[quote]Did he really die?

Here's the death scene from YouTube. You decide what you think. As I said, Patrick Duffy wanted to close the door on any return to the show, which really fucked things up when he changed his mind. That's what really started the show down the tubes. There was no viable way to resurrect him.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 16606/15/2012

R166 You have a point. But deaths dont mean anything in soap opera land. Have you seen the daytime soaps and the shit they do? Dallas while enormously popular did the same things that daytime soaps do in the realm of soap opera. I cant help but think that after seeing the way duffy came back audiences just started giving up on the show. There has to be a certain suspension of disbelief for a soap to work. But a close to year long dream is too much.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 16706/15/2012

Nothing would have really worked. Once Duffy decided to return, the show's end was pretty much set. Not bringing him back really would have been the right choice to maintain the integrity of the story.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 16806/15/2012

R168 i agree. It was the beginning of a slow painful 4 year end. I did like barbara eden though close to the end of the show.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 16906/15/2012

Remember when J. Eddie Peck was on "Dallas" AND "Dynasty"? Man, was he HOT.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 17006/15/2012

After watching both episodes now, I have to think that Josh Henderson was seriously miscast. He is just not credible as the type of guy who could pull off both complex scheming and the raw physicality of an oil roustabout. His love scene with "Marta" was pretty ridiculous, too. You know he's done in 30 seconds, not the kind of man who would be able to romance an international beauty and have her wanting more, even if that's part of her scam. Henderson looks rather short and stubby and that mustache is just ridiculous.

Metcalfe, on the other hand, was born to play a somewhat dim himbo who everyone takes advantage of.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 17106/15/2012

I thought Henderson and Metcalfe were pretty good in their roles. Better than what I expected. He has chemistry with Hagman.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 17206/15/2012

Today they wouldn't go to the ridiculous lengths of making a whole season a dream. They would just say "we're rebooting the show" or "doing season 8 version 2.0" or something like that.

I wonder how it would have gone over if they had just said in the media or on the air, "look, we made a mistake, we're starting over" and not tried to justify it in the series itself. They still would have gotten flak but they probably wouldn't have been ridiculed to the same degree.

Why did Duffy leave anyway? I'll never understand why actors walk away from successful shows.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 17306/16/2012

So if a scam anyway... could Rebecca be Pamela Rebecca whose parents are really dead because Audrey Landers is not worth a cameo?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 17406/16/2012

I had to laugh at the stupidity of the young schemers making out in the retirement home's parking lot for JR to see.

It would be a nice twist though if John Ross turns out to be at least bi or willing to make out with guys in order to get what he wants.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 17506/16/2012

I wish John Ross was more capable in scheming. He is ridiculous. He has no idea how to do cheat and scheme properly. Hagman won't last forever. Once he is out of the picture they need a badass who has the format of being iconic. John Ross is not even close. He's a joke.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 17606/16/2012

r176, but wouldn't it be interesting for the viewer to see him grow into a badass by learning from JR, the grand master of schemes himself?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 17706/16/2012

Yes, absolutely. I'd say watching the struggle and progress will make good drama. What I'm missing right now, next to John Ross actually doing something right, is learning more about his motivation. But I understand we're just at episode two. I should just see how the magic is going to unfold. I can be patient.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 17806/16/2012

I think that's the point, R176. That's why I think Henderson fits the role. He's a pretty boy schemer who tries, but doesn't have the slickness of JR.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 17906/16/2012

R173 Duffy really thought he was going to set the world on fire when he left dallas. He soon found out different when he found very few acting jobs. It didnt take much for hagman to coax him back and im sure he missed that nice salary too. They really painted bobby in the corner by killing him off. I still believe they could of done something else to bring him back instead of a dream but it wasnt only bringing bobby back with a dream. Producers and writers wanted to obliterare everything from the 85-86 season and start over. Ridiculous but thats what they decided.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 18006/16/2012

I guess I'm in the minority but I thought the dream season idea was clever on Katzman's part. It was best to just wipe it all out with one shot and be done. They would have spent the first half of season 10 trying to undo it otherwise. They would have had to write out Mark Grayson again, explain Bobby's return, put Bobby and Pam back together AGAIN, and that little deaf boy Ray and Donna adopted don't even get me started. There were just too many missteps that year it had to wiped clean.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 18106/16/2012

The treatment of Donna Reed was unforgivable. I don't think I've heard of a more boorish, fascist creative enterprise than Dallas in my life. Not since Triumph of the Will has there been such a disgusting assembly of characters on a production.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 18206/16/2012

I thought that 85-86 season was the best. It featured Barbara Carrera and Dack Rambo after all!

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 18306/16/2012

A wedding at Southfork, and no one ended up in the pool?

I have to take some points off for that.

Other than that, I thought it was pretty solid. I just hope Ann gets to do more than be everyone's agony aunt and occasionally wield a shotgun.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 18406/16/2012

The Bobby shower scene was at the end of that season, so clearly they decided before they'd finished the year what they were going to do. It must have been strange to work on the last episode or episodes of that season knowing that everything that happened was going to be wiped out!

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 18506/16/2012

I'm distracted by the accents on the show. J.R. and John Ross talk like good ol' boys; Bobby and Christopher don't have Texas accents at all. Sue Ellen seems to have lost hers.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 18606/16/2012

It would be really great if they would embrace some retcon plots to bring dead characters back to life, then plug back into the Knots Landing cul-de-sac. Just spitballin' here.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 18706/16/2012

R185 The dream season was already filmed before patrick duffy decided to return. They probably finished filming last episode in early 86. Duffys return was announced in may 86. There would be no reason for cliffhangers if they knew it would just be wiped out. Duffy has said to throw everyone off they pretended to film a soap commercial to insert his little bit at the end. John beck who played mark said he was in the shower too but obviously film wasnt used.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 18806/16/2012

Larry hagman is the show. They better hope he doesn't kick the bucket

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 18906/16/2012

I'm five episodes into the "dream season" and it feels very off, and strange.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 19006/16/2012

Even though the Dream Season was an early warning that the show was going to die...

The Dream Season MADE Dallas even more infamous and popular than ever. Look how we're still talking about it, decades later. People talk about the Dream Season more than they do about "Who Shot JR?"

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 19106/16/2012

I'm a bit of a Dallas connoisseur, so here's my take.

I expected this reboot to be a complete trainwreck, but I was pleasantly surprised. Yes, there are some inconsistencies with the original series, but to be honest...the original Dallas jumped the shark in 1985.

The "dream season" was a pathetic joke of epic proportions and after Pam's exit from the show in 1987, it became completely unwatchable. I agree with whoever it was upthread who said that for this reboot to consider every minute plot point from the entire 13-year run of the original series (and especially, I would argue, from the last 5 or 6 seasons) would result in a confusing clusterfuck for viewers.

With regard to Pam, I truly hope they don't bring the character back to the show with some tired old, hokey "Katherine kept her prisoner for 25 years" plot. Yes, soaps are notorious for cooking up shit like this, but it's a large part of the reason nobody watches them anymore and that they're all going off the air. It's patently ridiculous.

The way the show treated this character's exit was dreadful, and I do hope the new series ties up this very dangly loose end in some way. I never understood why they didn't piss or get off the pot with this on the original show.

I remember when VP left, there was a big brouhaha about recasting the role, which they did, but only for one episode. I think they held out hope to the bitter end that they could lure VP back, which is why they left things the way they did. They should have either had Pam die, finally and inexorably, or just recast the part.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 19206/16/2012

R192, anything would've been better than April Stevens. Ugh. Pretty girl, boring actress, horrible dialogue for her anyhow.

I think her character was more of a death knell than any other item since the Dream Season.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 19306/16/2012

Some thoughts about the show itself:

I just thought it was very well-done, overall. I love the idea of filming in the actual interior of the real Southfork ranch, changing the fictional "Oil Baron's Ball" to the real "Cattle Baron's Ball," and doing away with Southfork being located in Braddock County, which isn't even a real place.

I love the Ann Ewing character and the actor they chose to play John Ross, although he seems a bit manic. Not sure how I feel about Jesse Metcalf as Christopher. He's definitely great looking, but there is no way he's believable as the adult version of the freckled red-head who played him on the original show.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 19406/16/2012

April Stevens is one of the many, many characters from the last few seasons (along with J.R.'s hillbilly 2nd wife and the Sasha Mitchell character) that they need to just forget ever existed.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 19506/16/2012

I personally thought the dream season was one of Dallas' best seasons. You had Ms. Ellie mourning Bobby's death was one some of Barbara Bel Geddes best work. Sue Ellen fell off the wagon in a major way, to the point of drinking from a paper bag in an alley, and ended up in a sanitarium. Pam became Executor of Bobby's estate and Christopher's stock in Ewing Oil which made her, not Clff, J.R. arch-enemy for the majority of the season. Plus, I remember the production values and the direction to be particularly good. For all the flack it gets, I loved that season.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 19606/16/2012

R192 With the donna reed recasting of miss ellie and what a disaster it was you wonder why they didnt recast pam long term? If they bring pam back i dont know how else they would except for reasons beyond her control. Amnesia is an option too. Pam wouldnt willingly stay away from bobby and christopher. Katherine being involved in it makes the most sense. Morgan brittany has said thats the reason they brought her back in 87 in case pam returned so they could blame it on katherine.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 19706/16/2012

R197, just because Donna Reed was a disaster doesn't mean a new Pam necessarily would've been.

I don't think I want Pam to be brought back. I'd rather them just state definitively that she's dead. The character would be redundant at this point.

They should bring back Kit Mainwaring (is the actor who played him still around?) and pair him with some hot daddy for a gay power couple.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 19806/16/2012

You know, the thing that John Ross did that made me the angriest was suggesting that he'd attempt to have Miss Ellie's will overturned on grounds that she was incompetent.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 19906/16/2012

Also, given that they said that John Ross doesn't approve of Sue Ellen's political connections, are we to infer that she's...*gasp*...a Democrat?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 20006/16/2012

Reed didn't give Miss Ellie the gumption she had under Bel Geddes.

I'm sure she tried. But there was too much working against her.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 20106/16/2012

Strangely, the entire 1985-6 season does have a dream-like quality evident when viewed years after the dream pretense later applied is public knowledge:

1) The slow-motion scene of Bobby's lethal impact by Katherine's car.

2) The nightmarish scenarios of Sue Ellen in a "drunk tank", Pam's capture in Colombia by the mercenary emerald miners, Jenna's prolonged gloom over Bobby's death, J.R. finally gaining sole personal control of Ewing Oil, Sue Ellen returning to J.R. after all of the turmoil that she has been through- two times- because of him, and the climactic bombings that destroy Jack's sports car and the Ewing Oil offices and supposedly kill Jamie and Sue Ellen.

3) Pam's absence in most scenes, yet her seemingly constant presence, particularly when Mark, Jerry, and Sue Ellen say, "Love to Pam," and she is not in the scene.

4) Sue Ellen's drinking spree in a bar that looks like it doubles as a library- surrealism at its best.

5) The underexposed foreground/overexposed background outdoor filming during almost the whole season, yielding a hazy whiteness distinct from the crystal-clear photography at the start of the 1986-7 season- after the dream.

6) Several odd angles, including a glance at Southfork's balcony from high above it and a view from below of Sue Ellen "boozing" with the vagrants; a through-the-fire perspective of Jenna and Jack (which is very interesting indeed in that Jack's final scene in the 1985-6 season is through the flames of his bombed car!); a rather voyeuristic pan of the camera to a bathtub where J.R. and Mandy are trysting; a backseat angle (and no one seated there) of Clayton and Dusty in the front seats of Clayton's car while the two are discussing Sue Ellen's sanitarium situation; and many in-a-mirror camera perspectives.

7) Strange indoor lighting, with daytime light shining into Cliff's apartment at night, and nighttime lamps illuminating J.R.'s office in the middle of the day.

8) The sense of unreality in: Pam's gardener cutting her lawn when it looks yellow and evidently not in the growing season; Mark's return from the dead not generating the level and duration of surprise among Dallas society that one would expect; Mandy's sudden change from being guarded about involvement with a married J.R. to being eager to have J.R. as her lover in any capacity; the whole Marinos storyline, with Marinos as an overly appropriate name for the founder of a marine-based company- and Angelica Nero (Barbara Carrera) also being a peculiar name (there was nothing angelic about Nero of Rome, and Angelica herself is anything but an angel; she is essentially a demonic lady, Katherine Wentworth reincarnate!), and Angelica and her cohorts miraculously finding Dimitri's look-alike (Jack) in a world of five billion people!

9) Use of montage to liken Sue Ellen to a horse! Yes. When in "The Family Ewing" Dusty punches Sue Ellen and carries her over his shoulder out of a bar, the scene change is to a cowboy leading a horse out of a stable. Then, in "Rock Bottom", Sue Ellen runs away from a bag lady, and the next visual is of Charlie riding a horse. In "Mothers", Patricia says to Sue Ellen that she did not raise her daughters to, "...run third." She, "...raised winners." A scene of racing polo ponies at Mark's polo grounds immediately follows this. Finally, "Close Encounters" opens in a horse stable, with Sue Ellen among the mares and stallions, waiting to speak to Dusty.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 20206/16/2012

ome of the dialogue lines in the season are priceless in the "dream season" context:

1) Cliff, in reference to the emerald mine: "Bobby's dream. It's turned out to be Pam's nightmare."

2) Pam, concerning a sample emerald that Matt has presented to her: "Oh, this makes it so real! Up until now, it was just a dream."

3) J.R. to Pam: "Why don't you do us both a favor? Let me run Ewing Oil. I'd sleep better at night, and I know you would."

4) Kenderson to Sue Ellen: "I want to wake up with you."

5) Mark to Pam in regard to Mark's reaction to Pam's decision to assume Bobby's duties at Ewing Oil: "Let's sleep on it."

6) Angelica's early reference to Pam: "I didn't count on her," which is interesting in that Pam's "waking up" does erase Angelica's revenge upon J.R..

Nevertheless, the "Dream Season" notion is impossible to accept without several, unpleasant grains of rock salt. The unpalatability of the dream "solution" to the Duffy return is not only due to the negating of Pam's reunion with Mark Graison. Ray and Donna's adoption of hearing-impaired Tony was another appealing storyline eliminated by the dream premise, and the bombings were cliffhangers in their own right, for which viewers waited for months to see the outcome, but which never "really" occurred.

Moreover, the dream pretense does not explain several things. A murderous woman was shown following Bobby to Pam's house the day before Pam's dream supposedly started. Unless Pam was already aware that she or Bobby was being stalked by this woman, how would she have dreamed that Katherine would act against her and Bobby the following morning? Does she has a capacity for sensing danger which manifests itself in her dream? After the dream, however, the stalker disappears- and is not seen at any time in the 1986-7 season.

What happened to Dusty Farlow, who was present late in the 1984-5 season and early in the 1985-6 season to try to help Sue Ellen to survive her alcoholism, and then, after the dream, disappears without trace or mention? Jack Ewing only came to Dallas a few episodes toward the end of the 1984-5 season. It is unlikely that Pam met him, and even more unlikely that he would become a key figure in her dream. Further, unless Sue Ellen and Pam had a meeting off-camera before the dream, how would Pam have known that Sue Ellen was "falling off the wagon" and that Dusty Farlow had very recently come back to Dallas? And people like Angelica Nero and Tony Krebbs supposedly are figments of Pam's imagination. She dreams about people who do not exist. Rather unusual, if not unlikely.

The Jock Ewing-like Ben Stivers character who entered Pam's dream near its end is played by the same actor, Steve Forrest, who would appear after the dream as Wes Paramlee, a man claiming to be Jock. Unless Pam is prescient, how could she have known that a seeming Jock was going to come to Dallas? More to the point, when Parmalee does arrive in Dallas and claims to be Jock (which is refuted with evidence found by the Ewings), why does Pam not mention dreaming about Stivers, of whom Parmalee must remind her?

Before the dream supposedly started, it was early spring, with trees not yet in full bloom. Yet, after Pam's awakening, the trees surrounding her home are all amply leaved.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 20306/16/2012

There are alternative explanations for the dichotomous 1985-6 and 1986-7 states of affairs (most of them, anyway). Maybe Pam does not dream the 1985-6 season; rather, everything that happened after Pam awoke to find Bobby in her bathroom shower, all the Dallas storylines from 1986-7 to 1991, are a dream. This prospect is palatable (it certainly accommodates the downright ridiculous events of the series' finale in 1991, wherein J.R. does the It's a Wonderful Life thing with a Satanic sidekick and seems to shoot himself on a diabolical directive) in that there are nowhere near as many problems of continuity as there are the other way around- and the dream is of indeterminate length (it could be the tortured imaginings of a comatose person, Pam or someone else- Sue Ellen maybe, after the explosion of Angelica's bomb- over several years of stasis).

Another possibility, or a pair of possibilities, is straight out of science fiction and therefore must come across as very farfetched, but then so too is a 31-episode dream transpiring in one night.

On the night that Bobby and Pam sleep together at Pam's house, with Katherine outside and priming to attack in her car, the Earth passes through a rift in the fabric of space-time and is temporally split into two. Or perhaps there are two parallel Earth worlds that have always existed and on which outcomes become different sometime in 1985; a decision or an action or a combination of those somewhere in the flow of events is different on the two worlds, and an alternate time line results.

Going with the space-time warp idea, i.e. the Earth passing through such a warp and henceforth becoming two temporally distinct units, one Earth proceeds through time with the events of Bobby's death and the 1985-6 season occurring exactly as happens in the episodes. Another Earth is in temporal limbo for approximately a year, and it reemerges from limbo and resumes its orbit of the Sun at the point in 1985 where it slipped into the rift, while the other Earth is a year ahead. The two Earths are in separate dimensions of time. On Earth 2, Pam was particularly sensitive to her counterpart's experiences on the Bobby-is-dead Earth 1 and dreamed about some of them during the year in limbo. Certain biological functions (the aging process, some head-hair growth) continued, but everything else on Earth 2 was suspended. Katherine never acts against Bobby and Pam on Earth 2, and everything from 1986 to the television series' end only happens on Earth 2. As to what happens on Earth 1 after the 1985-6 season, fans of Dallas can speculate. Presumably, Jamie and Sue Ellen are killed by the bombs, and the aftermath of these awful events may have been J.R. finally quitting the oil business out of responsibility for what happened to Jamie and Sue Ellen. As posited in later episodes of the 1985-6 Dallas season, J.R.'s has long-latent redeeming qualities, and what more than the death of his wife could bring them fully to surface?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 20406/16/2012

And the concept of two worlds always existing parallel to one another but the pair of them diverging and going in different time lines in 1985 would follow nearly all of the premises above stated.

Some problems do arise, however:

1) Jack's statement to Ray in the Earth 1 season that he was never married, which is contradicted by the appearance of April on Earth 2. Assuming both Earths were one before the time/space disturbance, Jack had to have been married before coming to Dallas prior to the terrestrial split into two temporal units. Either he is lying to Ray to avoid talk about a failed marriage and to prevent anyone from trying to contact the ex-Mrs. Jack Ewing, or it could be that the scene in question does not really happen on Earth 1 and is just a dreaming Pam on Earth 2 inventing a history for the strange man, Jack, in her bizarre dream of the events on the other Earth.

2) Jenna's pregnancy on Earth 2 and no corresponding condition on Earth 1, despite the point of conception being before the time-split. Maybe she is pregnant on Earth 1 but miscarries without even knowing it in her grief following Bobby's death. This would also account somewhat for Jenna's exaggerated period of depression.

3) Angelica Nero and her entourage never appear on Earth 2, and nor does Matt Cantrell and others. It is possible that Bobby's survival on that Earth precludes these people from coming to Dallas and involving themselves in the machinations of J.R., and the Jock imposter may not wait as long to enter Ewing life and chooses a different alias.

4) Dusty's disappearance on Earth 2 is still not explained. Neither is Katherine's. However, it is reasonable to infer that Dusty leaves Dallas when he learns that Sue Ellen has voluntarily stopped drinking and has decided to ruin J.R.'s affair with Mandy by involving Ms. Winger in a series of lingerie advertisements. As for Katherine, maybe Bobby and Pam remained inside Pam's house for a longer time on Earth 2, and Katherine abandoned her vehicular murder plan.

5) Donna's fetus has Downs syndrome on Earth 1, and her baby is undeformed on Earth 2, despite the time of conception being the same (i.e. before the Earth's passage through the phenomenon). It could be that the time warp affected Donna's pregnancy on Earth 1 to cause the Downs syndrome.

Such manipulation of data does strain the credibility of an already absurd application of science fiction to a floundering prime-time serial. It is tempting to simply dismiss Dallas from the mid-1980s onward as television at its worst, and the Bobby-returns, year-backward adjustment of storylines the most shameless ratings ploy of all time and an insult to the viewers. No matter how one looks at it, the Dallas series' continuity was subverted by the dream-negation of a whole season, and only a purely Twilight Zone, science-fiction or fantasy explanation (the time-split phenomenon) can resolve the discrepancies to a satisfying extent, with some liberties required with particular situations.

Some of the paradoxes in this science fiction pretext could be better resolved by having the Earth's- or parallel Earth's- split occur earlier, before Jenna and Donna conceive fetuses. Just about everything, apart from the pregnancies, would unfold on both Earths in the same way until the night that Pam has her dream of Earth 1's events. A possible time for the division of Earth (or divergence in outcomes in the parallel world notion) would be before Jenna is separated from Bobby by her wrongful jail sentence for the murder of Renaldo Marchetta.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 20506/16/2012

One thing is for sure. The two-Earth, one-Earth's-year-in-limbo scenario is the only way of explaining how Pam's hair is considerably longer after her dream than before, how J.R.'s hair is greyer, and how John Ross and Christopher are noticeably older.

Dallas entered the realm of the fantastic with a 31-episode dream sequence and Pam forecasting things (e.g. the Jock imposter storyline) in her sleep. Why, then, should Miss Ellie's appearance change from Barbara Bel Geddes to Donna Reed and then back to Bel Geddes not be acceptable as a science fiction device? A shape-changer in addition to a time-space rift. Why not? There are several familiar faces from Star Trek (1966-9) on Dallas! Not to mention some from The Six Million Dollar Man (1974-8), Space: 1999 (1975-7), Lost in Space (1965-8), V (1983), Moonraker (1979), and Man From Atlantis (1977-8)!

It is interesting to note each of the anecdotal connections to science fiction and cosmic space in the 1985-6 season of Dallas. Marc Singer, player of Matt Cantrell, is remembered as the lead actor in the V television miniseries. The school for disabled children is named Woodgrove. Charles Woodgrove was the pseudonym for Space: 1999 producer Fred Freiberger when he penned scripts for that television show. Alan Fudge portrayed a psychologist at Meadowlark Sanitarium. He had been Patrick Duffy's co-star in television's Man From Atlantis. Another of the Meadowlark personnel was enacted by Bibi Besch, Dr. Carol Marcus in Star Trek II- The Wrath of Khan (1982). 1986 being the year of Halley's Comet's passing of Earth, the writers of the Dallas episodes in early 1986 opted to refer to "the comet" in one of Ray and Tony's conversations. Tony draws a picture of a cowboy amid stars and planets, while a Solar System map is situated on the wall behind the head of Christopher's bed.

Perhaps this sensitivity, delineated in the latter part of the preceding paragraph, to phenomena of the cosmos, something virtually absent from any other season of Dallas, was a product of a grandiose event that altered Earth passage through time and space. It certainly underscores the drastic scenario of a night's dream of a year's events! As the saying goes, anything can happen in Texas!

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 20606/16/2012

So we should all ignore the fact that Ann had a one night stand with Cliff 25 years ago. Okay, I'll play along.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 20706/16/2012

The fact that Bobby stayed dead in the Knots Landing timeframe suggests to me that Bobby in the shower was the beginning of the real dream. That means that the 2012 Dallas is still Pam's dream. She has no yet woken.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 20806/16/2012

[quote]Moreover, the dream pretense does not explain several things. A murderous woman was shown following Bobby to Pam's house the day before Pam's dream supposedly started. Unless Pam was already aware that she or Bobby was being stalked by this woman, how would she have dreamed that Katherine would act against her and Bobby the following morning? Does she has a capacity for sensing danger which manifests itself in her dream? After the dream, however, the stalker disappears- and is not seen at any time in the 1986-7 season.

Katherine Wentworth ran Bobby down, and then died on impact, according to Pam's Dream. That much was made clear. Pam knew Katherine, and she knew that Katherine wanted Bobby. She could've easily manifested that image of her obsessively stalking and running down Bobby.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 20906/16/2012

R198 Im sure the producers didnt want to take a chance of alienating more viewers by recasting pam. After what happened with donna reed and on dynasty with emma samms never being able to fill the void left by pamela sue martin as fallon. Victoria played the role for 9 seasons. Cant imagine anyone else in the role. Hope they get her back. I believe the show would benefit from pams shocking return.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 21006/16/2012

R210, Pam coming back would be classic soap opera cheese at this point. It would ruin the show as surely as the ridiculous "dream season" ruined the original.

Nevermind the fact that VP would be absolutely insufferable to watch if somehow they did convince her to reprise the role (which she seems to have no interested in doing).

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 21106/16/2012

What were the reviews on the first episode of the new version of Dallas?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 21206/16/2012

R192 But thats exactly what dallas is. Cheesy guilty pleasure outrageous fun. How would it ruin the show to have one of its original most popular characters back? Plus with hagman and his precarious health they need characters from the original to draw on its history. Or else it will turn into dallas 90210

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 21306/16/2012

Holy shit R202. I don't know whether to be impressed or terrified.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 21406/16/2012

They should do an episode where someone has a dream and we see what the present day outcome would be if the dream season had been real.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 21506/16/2012

I'm disappointed the classic Sue Ellen drinking with the bag lady scene never happened! I thought this was much earlier.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 21606/16/2012

Maybe it's all a dream of Tommy Westphall

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 21706/16/2012

The greatest back from the dead story I have ever seen was on Melrose Place where Marcia Cross' sadistic Dr Kimberly Shaw was smashed up in an appalling car wreck on account of her sleazy husband to be Dr Mancini, only to be shipped out of state by her mother where her death was confirmed. Half a season or so later Dr Mancini is porking Sydney Andrews and the camera pans out to the beach to be reveal Marcia Cross glaring in at them from the darkness. And the surprises didn't stop there as another episode later she suffered from terrible migraines - owing to the crash, the viewer assumed she would have a brain haemorrhage or the like, but no... in front of the mirror, she downed a shitload of painkillers and then in unbearable anguish whipped off her entire head of hair to reveal a huge fuck off scar searing across the side of her head. That pretty much made anything I've ever seen on Dallas or Dynasty pale in comparison, in plotting and above all in execution. Best soap twist EVER!!!!

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 21806/16/2012

R218 - That was one of the best twists ever.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 21906/16/2012

[quote]I think they held out hope to the bitter end that they could lure VP back, which is why they left things the way they did. I don't think they ever seriously considered VP coming back. She didn't leave voluntarily. She was let go because she was the victim of the first round of budget cuts. Did she ever state that she asked to be released? I always read from her that she was looking forward to an exciting future etc. But she didn't leave because she wanted to. Obviously they didn't want to kill Pam off just in case they wanted to use the character again. And after the dream debacle who would have bought that she really would have died. You could have shown her skeleton burn to ashes and still nobody would have believed she was actually dead.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 22006/16/2012

#202 with the list pertaining to the dream season-

The major difference in the look of Dallas between the 85-86 season and the 86-87 season had nothing to do with the dream. All of the CBS soaps- Knots, Falcon Crest, and Dallas changed their film/cinematography. The new look was shockingly cheap and "non film" like- but looked a little more modern. I missed the wonderful, grainy film look the shows had before that. And it made the openings look terribly cheap. Especially Falcon Crest. Good ahead and look on Youtube- for any season opener (86-87 season) of those shows.

I thought the dream season was one of Dallas's BEST. Sue Ellen. Angelica. Ray and Donna adopting. I loved that season.

This new Dallas is actually pretty good. I am kinda shocked.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 22106/16/2012

I was also doubtful about the casting of John Ross Jr and Christopher but I was pleasantly surprised.

I just love that John Ross thinks he is smart enough to pull one over on Jr. He is so clueless and he is about to be schooled. I have a feeling that Jr has been pulling all sorts of stuff while in "the home" I am convinced he hired someone to send that email to Elena and that he hired Christopher's wife aand brother to scam Christopher.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 22206/16/2012

So maybe JR sent the email?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 22306/16/2012

R220, where did you get that nonsense?

VP most certainly left voluntarily and says so every chance she gets. She thought the character (and the show) had run its course and she wanted to move onto other things.

She was begged repeatedly to come back as Pam for the series finale, reunion movies, etc., and has adamantly refused every time. I don't know if she was approached to come back for this reboot of the series; I would imagine that they've gotten the message by now.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 22406/16/2012

R213, you must be one of the writers for Days of Our Lives, because the idea of Pam being held captive by her sister for over 20 years is like some of the steaming piles of caca they come up with for that ridiculous show.

A year or maybe two, I could buy, but Pam has not been seen in 25 years, and has barely even been mentioned. The ship has sailed and her return would serve no real purpose other than to satisfy some people's sense of nostalgia, which would wear off rather quickly.

Especially considering the fact that VP looks like a wax dummy that came to life. Have you seen her recently? She's hardly the beauty who graced America's TV screens back in 1982.

She's also, by all accounts, a crazy alcoholic who I'm sure would be hell to work with.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 22506/16/2012

R225 No not a writer for days. How would you bring her back after so long genius? Amnesia and imprisonment are the only viable ways. Pam would not turn her back on bobby, christopher and cliff. Its just not her character. Pam is the elephant in the room of the new dallas show and cynthia cidre the new producer WILL deal with her character. Just dont know how yet. My scenario is no crazier than a fucking season long dream ok?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 22606/16/2012

Screw the young guys. Give me Jr. I can sit in his lap and he can take care of me with his oil. I always liked older men anyway they know how to treat you right. He used to be hot in I dream of genie.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 22706/16/2012

R224 Maybe not total nonsense. Victoria said she wanted to leave. Producers say she would have stayed if the price was right. Sheree j wilson who played april says she wanted hagmans salary. Victoria says she was offered a salary to make her tvs highest paid actress but said no. Who the hell knows?!

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 22806/16/2012

Why the hell would Sheree Wilson demand to have Hagman's salary??? What a tool.

Are they bringing back Ken Kercheval? That would be awesome.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 22906/16/2012

No sheree said that victoria wanted hagmans salary.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 23006/16/2012

ahh, ok. phew.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 23106/16/2012

Ken Kercheval will be back. He shot four episodes. Steve Kanaly and Charlene Tilton make another appearance week after next (episode four).

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 23206/16/2012

'Dallas' premiere review: J.R. Ewing rose from the crypt of TV history

by Ken Tucker

The new TNT version of Dallas that premiered on TNT on Wednesday night is a rare example of an artistically – well, entertainingly, at least — successful TV-classic update. It was all the more impressive for the way it combined members of the original cast with younger-demo-actor draws without quite seeming as cynical as a J.R. Ewing business deal. Which is not to say that the new Dallas isn’t all about cynicism and business deals. The show is not a “reboot”: It is, instead, a continuation of the 1978-1991 CBS prime-time soap created by David Jacobs, the auteur behind the even greater soap Knots Landing. (Yes, I would make that case for Knots, on the strength of the wackiness of Joan Van Ark’s Val Ewing and Alec Baldwin’s psycho minister alone.) The new Dallas has been reconceived by co-executive producer Cynthia Cidre in a canny manner. Instead of pitting veteran stars Larry Hagman (J.R.) and Patrick Duffy (J.R.’s brother Bobby) against a younger generation, characters form natural, if devious, alliances. Thus, J.R.’s son John Ross (Josh Henderson, having stolen John Waters’ moustache) teams up with J.R. (a Hagman whose eyebrows look like explosions of icicles) against Bobby (Duffy didn’t look a heckuva a lot much older than his Step By Step days, did he?) and Bobby’s adopted son Christopher (Jesse Metcalfe, looking grateful he escaped Desperate Housewives with a job). The modernization of Dallas has not been without a few bumps. I still can’t get used to the ads that urge me to “follow the Ewings on Twitter!” But I enjoyed the show’s genially hokey set-up of having a doddering J.R. in an assisted living center, ready to toss aside his walker and get back in the game. And while Victoria Principal was missed, you’ll never hear me say an unkind word about Brenda Strong, a good, always appealing actress who deserves a sizable role post-Housewives. She has nice chemistry with Duffy as Bobby’s wife, Ann, and Duffy himself was an energetic Bobby, even as he copes with a cancer diagnosis. What do they all want? Why, control of Southfork, of course. That grand expanse of Texas property is and always has been the reason Dallas exists. It’s the site of oil rigs and horse riding, of generational hubris played out on a tragic, yet often enjoyably ridiculous scale. In 2012, owning land, even if all you plan to do with it is strip it of its natural grandeur or sell it off to suckers, still works as an object of desire: We poor folks can understand why these people continue to squabble over decades for it.

The two-hour premiere set up John Ross as a would-be rapacious oil baron, and his cousin Christopher as a furrow-browed believer in an “alternative energy project” that will be both profitable and “green” if only he can get it up and running on Southfork. The young men have attractive women to love ’em and betray ’em (as played by Jordana Brewster and Julie Gonzalo, they’re rather wan so far). But a surprising amount of Dallas dastardliness will be, as the weeks go on, carried out by the older players. Hagman and Duffy are periodically joined by Linda Gray as J.R.’s ex, Sue Ellen (hell-bent on a run at becoming governor — doesn’t anyone in that town remember what an emotional wreck Sue Ellen was?), and Ken Kercheval looms into view as J.R.’s old nemesis Cliff Barnes. There’s even an occasional squeal from Charlene Tilton, as Lucy Ewing. So far, Henderson displays the best chemistry with Hagman – as son and father, they seem to enjoy scamming others (and, soon enough, each other). And overall, Dallas is a solidly constructed soap opera, with strong wooden dialogue and oily plot twists. What did you think of the return of Dallas?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 23306/17/2012

Television review: A worthy return to 'Dallas' TNT's version, which focuses on JR, Bobby and Sue Ellen Ewing, along with the next generation, is very much the heir of the CBS original, in spirit and execution.

June 12, 2012|By Robert Lloyd, Los Angeles Times Television Critic

Larry Hagman gives Josh Henderson a close shave in TNT's reboot of… (Zade Rosenthal, TNT ) "Dallas,"which in its love of the anti-hero and elevation of the cliffhanger set the stage for much of what is now considered Important Television, is back, 21 years after the end of the series proper and 14 years from the last branded TV movie. And the presence of Larry Hagman, Patrick Duffy and Linda Gray as JR, Bobby and Sue Ellen Ewing — arguably the most important characters from the original series — means that you should take it as seriously, on its less than serious terms.

In order not to make the new version, which has devolved from CBS to TNT, entirely geriatric — it was a sea of gray even when the first run ran down — much of the action focuses on the rivalry between cousins John Ross (Josh Henderson), the son of JR and ex-wife Sue Ellen, and Christopher (Jesse Metcalfe), the adopted son of Bobby and the departed Pam, played long ago by Victoria Principal and referred to here as having "just disappeared one day."

Like their parents, and alongside them, they have different visions of the future of the Ewings and the meaning of the old homestead, Southfork Ranch, over whose disposition they argue with a perhaps too frequent use of the word "birthright." (The new series adds a debate between fossil fuel versus alternative energies — I will leave it to you to guess on which side each faction comes down). Additionally, John Ross and Christopher each have their own complicated romantic relationships, with housekeeper's daughter Elena (Jordana Brewster) and out-of-town lawyer Rebecca (Julie Gonzalo), who is engaged to Christopher.

If TNT is no CBS, CBS is not what it was when "Dallas" reigned, and advances in television technology mean that even in this relatively more economy-minded venue, it is a fancier affair — and given looser standards and practices, an edgier, more explicit one — than the original. But as redeveloped by Cynthia Cidre (the 2007 CBS prime-time soap"Cane"), it is very much its heir, in spirit and execution.

Then as now — and acknowledging some good work among the younger set, especially the Texas-born Henderson — it is Hagman's show. To say there is no series here that would be worth watching without him is indeed only to point out another way in which the new "Dallas" is very much like the old.

There is some sloppy writing, as when information regarding Christopher's undersea mining project, which the script treats as somehow secret and valuable, is also displayed as news available on the Internet. And it can look phony: A key opening scene set around a gushing oil well just seems like actors and extras at work; other characters speak technobabble issues like a phonetically rehearsed foreign language.

But "Dallas" never was a series that worried over a little wooden acting, or prized sense over the sensational: The narrative flexibility of the original was such that, in the mid-1980s, in order to rewrite a briefly departed Duffy back into the show, an entire season was declared to have been a dream.

The Ewings and their extended family of foes and frenemies can seem to be absurdly gullible, liable to believe anything anyone tells them (except, often, when it is the truth). They are prone to half-baked deals and secrets fatally kept out of pride, which would have done them no harm if revealed in the first place.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 23406/17/2012

Cont:

Bobby, who wants Southfork — I keep wanting to write South Park — pristine into perpetuity, whether he gets to live there or not, is so blindly good a person as to seem at times a simpleton: He's the Prince Myshkin of the Dallas-Fort Worth metroplex, and Duffy, still sporting an impressive head of hair, plays him almost as before, down to the frequently worried cast of his eyebrows. I say "almost" because he buttons his shirts higher than in his disco-beat youth. But that's the only significant difference.

As Sue Ellen, Gray has changed her hair but not her makeup, which still lies heavily upon her lips and along her eyes, but which is, after all, not inappropriate either to her character or to the real women of her place and class; she is said to be running for governor, though there is no evidence that she has any interest or experience in politics. She does have an office with a view, which is all the series really needs to convey authority.

Hagman doesn't need the office: At 80, the actor has lost a little of his suppleness, but none of his sparkle, and even mouthing generalities he seems to come from a place of a genuine knowledge. His JR is less a character than a force of nature — he just wants to win and knows he will, whatever comes his way. "Bullets don't seem to have much effect on me," he tells Bobby's shotgun-toting new wife, Ann, played by Brenda Strong.)

The pilot dawdles until the right word rouses him back to action like a demon from his thousand-year sleep. His eyes light up, and the party starts.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 23506/17/2012

I smell a nomination for supporting actor...

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 23606/17/2012

I don't really want Pamela back because I too feel it would be such a stretch to explain a 25 year absence. But I agree that the character is the elephant in the room. If you ever see a stretch limo opening a window without seeing a face you will always assume it's Pamela. Whenever there is a puppet master behind a scheme you'll wonder if it's Pamela. Also, the current producer said she too felt the fate of Pamela being unsatisfactorily unresolved.

I'd say, in order to make a reappearance more plausible, one of the current characters (my money is on Cliff) should be in touch with her already. Remember Angela asking a presumed dead man when he would tell Maggie that he's still alive? If that had been Chase nobody would have doubted it.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 23706/17/2012

R226, I answered your question. I wouldn't bring her back. I hope they do address her character, but only to finalize the fact that she died and has been dead for a very long time.

I never said your idea was crazier than a season-long dream. I've already said that I thought that idea was preposterous as well. It made Dallas a laughingstock.

ANYway, I maintain that it would be much more interesting to bring back Kit Mainwaring. Since he was only on the show for such a brief time, he doesn't have a bunch of convoluted backstory baggage, and he'd be perfect as one-half of a gay power couple, which it's way past time for.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 23806/17/2012

r225 Who the fuck is kit mainwaring? You wouldnt bring pamela back but this fucker that had less screentime than the ewing maids probably?!

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 23906/17/2012

Oh dear, R239. You need to go back and review the first two seasons of the original series. Your love for Angelica Nero has blinded you to the epicness of the first 7 seasons.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 24006/17/2012

DALLAS and DYNASTY were very much the STAR WARS of supersoaps. KNOTS LANDING was more intellectual, like BLADE RUNNER. A mundane kind of Los Angeles.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 24106/17/2012

R240 I never said i was the biggest fan of the dream season. Why would you bring back a over 30 year minor character over a regular cast member? Oh yeah the producers are really gonna do that! A character no one gives a shit about!

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 24206/17/2012

I actually found a clip of it, which is quite great because it also seems to show Brenda putting Ann Curry in her place.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 24306/17/2012

R242, I'm done talking to you. Did VP give you a semi-erection back in 1984 and now you think she has a magic pussy or something? Granted, Anthony Perkins thought the same thing.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 24406/17/2012

R244 No never said victoria was the most beautiful or talented. When you assume you make an ass out of you. Now go jack off to kit ok lol?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 24506/17/2012

Girls! Girls! No one gives three fucks about the opinions of two old queens haggling over a show that everyone but the most housebound of caftan and turban wearing eldergays has forgotten.

Christ, give it a rest.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 24606/17/2012

Oh, r243 is in reference to my post at r207.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 24706/17/2012

R36, it was not so much Reed's fault but that of bad timing. I don't know the full details, except of what I saw of that season's episodes, Donna Reed was the wrong choice to replace Bel Geddes. For the simple reason that Barbara had made Miss Ellie her own role by then, so that it would be impossible for any other actress to take over. Reed may have given a soft southern rose veneer to the character, but the viewers were already familiar with the homely looking but very steely with a strong spine Miss Ellie, from Barbara Bel Geddes, so the switch never worked. I was only a kid during the late eighties, and I remember watching the final episodes and frankly Geddes was Miss Ellie to the bone and there was no one who could ever top it! I am basing my views of watching Dallas repeats from the late nineties btw. And I'm sorry but Reed was so completely wrong for the role, so she would never be able to successfully take up where Geddes left off no matter how hard she tried she would never fully succeed. The real fault lies with the producers and casting directors and not the actresses themselves. I read recently in some British new age magazine that Hagman is about to have a Betty White style renaissance in his career! Let's face it, there is no one quite like JR. And we haven't quite heard the last of Larry yet.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 24806/17/2012

R248 I really think donna gets a bad rap. True barbara made the role her own and won the emmy for it. But donna won an oscar so she had the acting chops too. I still believe donna is a close second in the role. Miss ellie wasnt really a complex role. And donna really didnt have much storyline when she was on too. All miss ellie basically had to do was be the strong iron willed matriach who kept jr in line. Barbara was perfect in the role because she dressed and looked like a woman who could do this and tend to the ranch and get her hands dirty. Donna just looked better in the part but the character was essentially the same. But everyone thought she was too glamourous in the role. I thought she looked great but thats not who the character was. On dynasty when emma samms took over as fallon from pamela sue martin the character was taken from a feisty fun loving rich party girl to whiny victim. Emma was never fallon to me. This is how you destroy a character. Fallon and not really miss ellie.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 24906/17/2012

DALLAS fanatics: do any of you remember what season/episode it was when Sue Ellen made a big dramatic scene and said "JR I will not go back to that sanitarium?"

I know, she was a drunken whore, could be any of them. Trying to find it on YouTube.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 25006/17/2012

Does anyone know where the name Southfork exactly came from? I thought it had something to do with Miss Ellie's maiden name. But why the -fork?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 25106/17/2012

Reportedly, Principal was going to come back for the finale of the original series, but ONLY if they would guarantee that it was indeed the final episode of the series and since they couldn't or wouldn't do that, she didn't return.

The new show just had the line from Elena, "I miss her" - not saying where she is, dead or alive. If they hadn't already kicked off the show with JR in a hospital, semi-catatonic, they could have set it up that Pam was in a clinic for longterm care due to complications from her accident or a breakdown or who knows what and then she could have come around.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 25206/18/2012

Bump.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 25306/18/2012

I wish they could find an excuse to introduce James' (Sasha Mitchell) hot son, played by Channing Tatum.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 25406/18/2012

[quote]The new show just had the line from Elena, "I miss her" - not saying where she is, dead or alive.

I didn't understand the context of that scene. Where they referring to Pam?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 25506/18/2012

R255 Yes they were referring to pam. Elena said she would get coffee and wake up christopher or something. They must of been 6 or 7 years old when pam left in 1987. An example of not checking your facts as a writer of the new show. Stupid ass mistake.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 25606/18/2012

Soaps just don't follow the same logic as normalI just saw the season finale of The Client List. The show's only been on a few weeks, but the husband's been gone "a year"--despite everyone, including the small children, looking the same.

If Dallas does well, and I suspect it will, they may convince VP to return. I don't care about her one way or another. But she may be back in the season finale. I wouldn't be shocked. And whatever the explanation, it will fly with fans.

After all, Dynasty/The Colby's Fallon was abducted by a flying saucer...

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 25706/18/2012

Oh well.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 25806/19/2012

Thinking back to 1985/1986, is there ANY actress who would have been an effective replacement for Barbara Bel Geddes? No known actress comes to mind who had that dowdy look and gentle, drawling, understated way of speaking (yet with the ability to shut it down when called for!)

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 25906/19/2012

R259, you really can't replace ANY actor who has spent a decade in the role, without a huge noticeable difference. It wouldn't matter what BBG did in the role all those years, it's the fact that Donna was 'not BBG'.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 26006/19/2012

too much backstabbing already. i'm confused.

christopher has giant man boobs.

john ross is weird looking.

jr needs his eyebrows trimmed.

i'm giving the show one more episode.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 26106/19/2012

R259 - They should not have tried to replace BBG.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 26206/19/2012

R259 and R262 I would have given Nancy Olson from Paper Dolls an audition at least.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 26306/20/2012

Finally saw the first hour and I loved it!

I used to watch religiously back in the day.

The opening music took me back. I was in 5th grade band and it was toward the end of the school year and we were just starting to learn it. Damn it, we never finished it either.

This version was very edited and wasn't as bombastic and sweeping as I remember either. Kind of toned down, much like the Hawaii Five-0 theme.

Loved how John Ross was schooled by the master. You ain't seen nothing yet, boy.

Now I need to find the second hour before tonite.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 26406/20/2012

[quote]For the simple reason that Barbara had made Miss Ellie her own role by then, so that it would be impossible for any other actress to take over.

I'm sorry, but that's ridiculous. Daytime soaps have been replacing even their most beloved characters with alternate actors for decades now. Yes, it'd take time to get used to the new actress, but it would've been by no means "impossible." That said, it would've been hard to replace BBG with an actress who could be believable as a strong-willed and unpretentious matriarch, and Donna Reed was COMPLETELY wrong for the part.

[quote]Does anyone know where the name Southfork exactly came from? I thought it had something to do with Miss Ellie's maiden name. But why the -fork?

They've never explained it, but it may have nothing to do with Miss Ellie's maiden name Southworth. A term like "Southfork" usually refers to a fork either in a river or lake, or on a road; you "Revenge" watchers may have noticed that there's a "South Fork Inn" on the show, which is a reference to a point in the Hamptons, not in Dallas (although it's quite possibly an intentional homage on the part of the producers). Btw there is an East Fork area on Lake Ray Hubbard, which is a few miles away from Southfork's actual location in the town of Parker, outside of Dallas.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 26506/20/2012

When is the next episode?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 26606/20/2012

R265, daytime soaps get up to five episodes a WEEK to slowly break in a new actor and familiarize the audience with him or her. Not the same for a primetime series airing once a week for 24-30 episodes spread over a season. There just isn't time for that with all the storyline that occurs in a tenth of the time a daytime soap has to do it in.

That said, I think Nancy Olson would have been a very strong option! Good for you, R263.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 26706/20/2012

Larry Hagman has not aged well.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 26806/20/2012

[quote]Larry Hagman has not aged well.

He's 80 and spent a lot of years destroying his liver. Nobody's going to look good in that situation.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 26906/20/2012

New episode tonight! Are we going to have a new thread, or continue on here?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 27006/20/2012

It's nothing against Nancy Olson, but BBG's version of Miss Ellie was such an established character that any actress would not fit.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 27106/20/2012

[quote]He's 80 and spent a lot of years destroying his liver. Nobody's going to look good in that situation.

Well, he does have a new liver now ... that said, I remember reading somewhere that he had another minor cancer scare -- something GI-related -- while the show was filming, but apparently it was resolved successfully without Hagman needing any time off from filming.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 27206/20/2012

Donna reed was not THAT horrible in the role. A close second i believe to barbara. The ratings for that season were #2 so people were still watching. I think the stakes were higher in the nighttime soaps when it came to recasts due to everyone watching as opposed to daytime which sometimes go through 3 or 4 actors to find the right one and appeal to a select audience. Dynasty for one really got lazy in its recasts. They did well with jack coleman but emma samms, karen cellini and robin sachs (adam from the reunion) were horrible and all wrong for fallon, amanda and adam.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 27306/20/2012

It needs more Ewings.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 27406/20/2012

The sets all seem kind of cheap.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 27506/20/2012

"Bullets don't seem to have much effect on me".

Best line of the night.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 27606/20/2012

Agreed, R276, and disagreed, R275. The sets only seem "cheap" in comparison with the palace-like Southfork of the '80s, which was subtly doubled in size from the original to try and keep up with Carrington Manor (they used the excuse of burning down Southfork on a season finale to rebuild the entire set with much larger proportions and with additional rooms).

I thought tonight's show was great, particularly the early scenes with J.R. and John Ross. The razor blade to the throat was a particularly nice touch! Btw I thought you bitches raving upthread about Pam coming back were crazy until tonight, but Cliff and Christopher conspicuously referred her twice, and his wife said she "disappeared," not that Pam died. I have to admit, the most blockbuster season finale they could come up with for this year is Victoria Principal returning to the show with no notice, like Bobby did in the infamous shower scene.

Btw do any of you eldergays remember if it's true that Miss Ellie was institutionalized for a while after Jock died? This doesn't seem like a tidbit the producers would retcon, but I don't recall it (and I've seen every episode of every season in reruns).

One slight niggle: the Chevy product placement is getting a little too heavy-handed, what with the close-ups on the Tahoe and Corvette car labels this week and the Suburban last week. Besides, since when do the Ewings drive American? Aside from J.R. unfortunate switch to the ill-fated Cadillac Allante for a few seasons, the Ewings have almost always driven German cars, mainly Benzes. Well, at least Sue Ellen still has a Porsche.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 27706/21/2012

The problem with the John Ross character is that he doesn't have any redeeming qualities. JR of old was unscrupulous but he had a twisted sort of loyalty and love for his family. John Ross is just a pointless little rat.

The I-have-cancer! scene with Patrick Duffy & Jesse Metcalfe was awful. Those 2 have no chemistry. Why do they have such a shitty, shouty relationship if Bobby was supposed to have single-handedly raised his son?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 27806/21/2012

Speaking for myself, I don't recall Miss Ellie being institutionalized after Jock's death. His first wife was, though. Re. John Ross' black Corvette, that was what Pam drove for most of her run on the show. IIRC, that's what she was driving when she had her accident.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 27906/21/2012

I don't remember Miss Ellie being institutionalized either.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 28006/21/2012

[quote]Why do they have such a shitty, shouty relationship if Bobby was supposed to have single-handedly raised his son?

I think they already explained that he was away at boarding school, and then living in Hong Kong, for a number of years.

[quote]Re. John Ross' black Corvette, that was what Pam drove for most of her run on the show. IIRC, that's what she was driving when she had her accident.

Wrong on both counts. Her first car on the show (a gift from Bobby during the show's first full season) was a Corvette, but in subsequent seasons she drove a Porsche 911 most of the time. She was driving Bobby's famous red Mercedes SL convertible, which he'd driven since the show started, when she had her accident, ostensibly because her car was "in the shop" (and IIRC because Bobby was the intended target, not Pam).

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 28106/21/2012

Intended target for what?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 28206/21/2012

I love this reboot!

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 28306/21/2012

Just watched wednesdays episode. Miss ellie was never in an institution after jock died. And if john ross blackmailed bobby into selling southfork, why do they still need the front to buy it? John ross wanted it for himself . My admiration for the writing has gone way down now.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 28406/22/2012

Miss Ellie and the Ewings were able to keep her institutionalization a secret. It was probably the guilt from killing her first husband with a leg of lamb that pushed her over the edge.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 28506/22/2012

r284 - IIRC, Bobby thought John Ross was going to attempt to legally challenge Miss Ellie's will due to mental incompetence ie. Bobby thought he was being blackmailed into allowing John Ross to drill on Southfork or have Mama's name dragged through the mud.

The front has to be there so that Bobby thinks he's selling it to the nature conservatory and therefore still thwarting John Ross.

[quote]I think they already explained that he was away at boarding school, and then living in Hong Kong, for a number of years.

Oh, thanks. I missed that.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 28606/22/2012

Miss Ellie was not in an institution after Jock died. There was one big crying scene in the kitchen, throwing flatware included, and that was it. She put herself together and slowly moved into Clayton's arms. At that time she was actually contesting Jock's will for the same reason of incompetency.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 28706/22/2012

Yeah, R287, I don't like them retconning (oh how I hate that word and concept!) her into a loony bin. It didn't happen! At first I was going to say that maybe it happened during summer hiatus (lol), but there was always a cliffhanger and the story took up directly from that each season.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 28806/22/2012

Why does Miss Ellie's will even matter? I thought Bobby got the ranch for Southfork in Dallas' last season?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 28906/22/2012

Maybe he gave it back to Miss Ellie? God knows Ewing Oil changed hands enough times (and is, yet again, in Cliff's, though IIRC Sue Ellen and Bobby had shared ownership the last time around, on the final reunion movie).

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 29006/23/2012

Wow. I am liking this show. All I watch are HBO/Showtime shows, and this is the first non Premium cable show that I have enjoyed in a while. I really am enjoying this.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 29106/23/2012

JR has the best lines.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 29206/27/2012

I like how all the old geezers slur and spit through their dentures.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 29306/27/2012

This show got pretty boring pretty quickly.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 29406/27/2012

still some nice eye candy. stick girl needs a sandwich tho.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 29506/27/2012

Barbara Bel Gedses had open heart surgery at the end of the 1982-83 season (the season that had Southfork fire cliffhanger), and they wrote her off the show for the last few episodes of the season by stating that she was stressed out and had to get away from Dallas with Clayton.

Miss Ellie came back a few episodes into the 1983-84 season; if I remember correctly Bobby and JR scrambled to get Southfork rebuilt before she returned.

Speaking of Clayton, didn't Miss Ellie add him to the mortgage or change her will to give it to him in one of the later seasons? I thought JR was so angry he left Southfork as a result.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 29606/27/2012

Thoughts on tonight's show:

**It's increasingly obvious, just from the visible leaves changing color in the background, that the episodes being shown now were shot on location in Dallas in late fall, which in Texas terms means early December. Why is everyone acting like it's still summer then? Dallas gets fucking COLD in the wintertime! (At least no one's gone swimming in the Southfork pool, which I'm sure isn't heated.) Continuity-wise, the gubernatorial election in Texas takes place in November, and realistically Sue Ellen wouldn't have started campaigning already for it; hell, she wouldn't even be the nominee yet, since the Republican primary isn't until spring. (We'll forget, for the moment, that there's no gubernatorial election this fall.)

**If you didn't know better you'd assume everyone on "Dallas" lives either at Southfork or in a high-rise loft. That's just silly. Why on earth would Bobby and his wife be moving from a huge house into a condo? Realistically, they'd get a sizable house, if not a mansion, in Highland Park or Preston Hollow. The sole purpose of John Ross's loft appears to be giving him a cinematic view of the downtown skyline, which is available only in two or three high-rise buildings in Dallas's Design District.

**Why on earth did John Ross ask Elena to do his dirty work instead of the bipolar Mexican? You *knew* she would be the one to come up with the goods, not Miss Goody Two-Shoes.

**How the fuck did Cliff Barnes end up a multi-billionaire and the Ewings so cash-poor? (poor Bobby apparently can't even afford ranch hands and had to deliver a distressed calf by himself!) I suppose they could go back and explain it at another date, but we still haven't heard how Cliff gained control of Ewing Oil, or why it's apparently not located in Dallas nowadays (Cliff's staying at a hotel, as we saw last week, though it's a little stupid that he'd reserve an entire floor for himself - the Presidential Suite alone wouldn't suffice?).

**"Dallas" has had, at certain intervals, over a dozen regular characters, so why can't they give Ray or Lucy anything but one-line cameo appearances? Also, are we to assume that Ray is penniless now, too, even though he's Jock's son and Jock (or was it Miss Ellie?) gave him a significant chunk of Southfork land on which to build his own ranch?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 29706/27/2012

In general, it is hard to suspend disbelief that Elena is so irresistible that both Christopher & John Ross can't get over her.

[quote]**Why on earth did John Ross ask Elena to do his dirty work instead of the bipolar Mexican? You *knew* she would be the one to come up with the goods, not Miss Goody Two-Shoes.

You mean Rebecca? Well, since John Ross knew she sent the email, he knew she had a dark side. He didn't ask Miss Bipolar at first since he sensed the crazy and was trying to shake her off.

[quote]**"Dallas" has had, at certain intervals, over a dozen regular characters, so why can't they give Ray or Lucy anything but one-line cameo appearances?

Yeah, I don't see the point of the cameos at all. Either give them some function in the plot, or scrap them altogether.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 29806/28/2012

[quote]Why on earth did John Ross ask Elena to do his dirty work instead of the bipolar Mexican? You *knew* she would be the one to come up with the goods, not Miss Goody Two-Shoes.

I agree. Also, if he truly wants Elena back, wouldn't it make sense for him to hope that Christopher and Rebecca stay together?!

Also, John Ross is so NOT charming. No matter what Elena and Old Lady Henderson says.

Lucy hasn't seen her Uncle J.R. yet. I look forward to that scene (if they give it to us).

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 29906/28/2012

Gave it a shot, and already bored by it. I see Hagman's eyes going left-to-right constantly, so he's reading off cue cards. Linda Gray looks great.....but so what. The kid playing JR's kid is cute, but has 0 charsma. Metcalf's moobs enter every scene, before he does. One chick is anorexic. The guy playing Cliff showed up last night, and absolutely looked like a corpse. They've lost me .

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 30006/28/2012

The ratings are starting to slip, too.

They go up some when you count the DVR viewings.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 30106/28/2012

[quote]I see Hagman's eyes going left-to-right constantly, so he's reading off cue cards.

No one on series TV uses cue cards. You're imagining things.

[quote]The ratings are starting to slip, too. They go up some when you count the DVR viewings.

Ratings ALWAYS slip from a premiere, and the "Dallas" premiere was THE highest-rated cable series of the year, not counting premium channels (in that case, "True Blood" wins). As for DVR viewings, in this day and age they are *critically* important, and in many cases are the sole reason why a show is on the air. (Cases in point: "Fringe" and "Supernatural," both of which air on Friday nights when few people are home, get as much as 40% of their viewership from time-delayed viewing.) Advertisers buy ads on the basis of the live ratings plus all viewings within a subsequent three-day window. The networks, both network and cable, based their decisions to renew a show on live+7 (a week out), which btw is the ONLY reason DL fave "Smash" was renewed even though it has terrible overnight ratings even by NBC standards.

Keep trying, haters, but those of us in the know understand that this is TNT's biggest hit in years.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 30206/28/2012

[quote]**How the fuck did Cliff Barnes end up a multi-billionaire and the Ewings so cash-poor? (poor Bobby apparently can't even afford ranch hands and had to deliver a distressed calf by himself!) I suppose they could go back and explain it at another date, but we still haven't heard how Cliff gained control of Ewing Oil, or why it's apparently not located in Dallas nowadays (Cliff's staying at a hotel, as we saw last week, though it's a little stupid that he'd reserve an entire floor for himself - the Presidential Suite alone wouldn't suffice?).

Didn't the original Dallas end with JR having a heart attack, losing Ewing Oil, and that stupid 'devil' hallucination laughing at it all? Cliff inherited a lot from Wentworth Industries anyhow, which wasn't ever in line for Ewing competition. I think it's reasonable to assume that Cliff could've done better than JR over time, due to Cliff playing things a bit closer to the vest all these years.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 30306/28/2012

[quote]Didn't the original Dallas end with JR having a heart attack, losing Ewing Oil, and that stupid 'devil' hallucination laughing at it all?

Yes, but the two reunion movies resolved all of that. By the end of the second one, I believe J.R., Bobby and Sue Ellen each owned equal parts of Ewing Oil. I do remember Bobby selling part of his share to Cliff at one point during the series, however, and that Cliff worked with both Bobby and J.R. in their main offices.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 30406/28/2012

At the end of the second TV movie Sue Ellen and Bobby owned Ewing Oil. Cliff must have gotten it back. Not sure how and hy because he wanted to sell it in the movie.

I thought yesterday's episode was a bit of a lackluster. Soaps have evolved. From Dalls to Sopranos to Revenge... the new Dallas needs to step up its game. There wasn't a whole lot going on yesterday.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 30506/28/2012

Yeah, I'm almost done with it. John Ross needs to be much better than an evil cartoon character. At JR's most evil moments he always had some kind of humanity spill through, so you didn't totally give up on him.

And they have to stop making the "good" characters so good that they bore us to death.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 30606/28/2012

RE : 302 'NO ONE ON TV USES CUE CARDS'

Are you insane ? Lucille Ball used them on "The Lucy Show", and "Here's Lucy" . Marlon Brando was famous for using cue cards, in movies. It's already been said in this thread, among other places, that Hagman is using them on the current "Dallas". Are you a shill for the show ? The evidence is right there every week- watch Hagman when he has more than a couple lines to say. You see his eyes reading. Wake up silly !

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 30706/28/2012

No one uses cue cards because they have teleprompters, now.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 30806/28/2012

Jeez, 307 tone it down. No real need to throw a tantrum over cue cards.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 30906/28/2012

[quote]Lucille Ball used them on "The Lucy Show", and "Here's Lucy" .

Putting aside the fact that those shows are over 50 years old, they were also filmed before a live audience in one sitting (unlike today's sitcoms, which can take eight hours to film, even with an audience). While I'm not going into further discussion on the topic, I've been on numerous television soundstages, and not once have I see cue cards or teleprompters used in any way. Scenes are shot one at a time, and for a single shot an actor might only have to remember three or four lines (and there's always a lengthy setup period for each camera angle, particularly since the lights all have to be readjusted). Larry Hagman may be 80, but there's no evidence that his short-term memory is THAT far gone that he can't recall a few sentences with practice.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 31006/29/2012

Regarding Ray and Lucy.... This is just IGNORANT. They have been on the show twice and both times have been given a line or two and are shown promenading around the ranch glued to each other. First of all, it conjures up awkward memories of season one when they were lovers and would sneak off to a barn to get it on. Then they were discovered to be uncle and niece! But why are they always together like a couple now? Who is Ray married to? Who is Lucy married to?? It's ridiculous the way they insert them for a few seconds into the episodes.

It's more than clear that Steve Kanaly and Charlene Tilton were hired for ONE DAY of work, with both the wedding and the BBQ crowd scenes filmed at the same time. They merely switched clothes and Charlene put part of her hair up for the second "cameo." I realize we aren't talking about Tracy & Hepburn here (or even Wagner & Powers), but is that the best that the writers could come up with in utilizing these FEATURED characters from the original show??? It's just stupid. They've hardly interacted at all with the rest of the cast. Was it impossible to have a scene for each in conversation with one of the regulars that might reveal what they are doing these days? I'm wondering if they even let them in the house to change clothes during their ONE DAY of work or if they had to lurch behind a port-o-let and switch costumes.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 31106/29/2012

[quote]Yeah, I'm almost done with it. John Ross needs to be much better than an evil cartoon character. At JR's most evil moments he always had some kind of humanity spill through, so you didn't totally give up on him.

He had Miss Ellie. There's no character that John Ross has ties to that he seems to have much affection for, except Elena, and even that's a bit manipulative.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 31206/29/2012

Larry Hagman's mother, Mary Martin, was almost a decade younger when she had to use an earpiece because she could not remember the lines in the play "Legends."

Larry was very involved in the day-to-day workings of the play, my guess is he would work very hard to learn his lines and not repeat what happened to his mom.

Martin did eventually learn her lines during the year that "Legends" toured.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 31306/29/2012

[quote]There's no character that John Ross has ties to that he seems to have much affection for, except Elena, and even that's a bit manipulative.

The odd part is that, when Sue Ellen left the original show, she took a willing John Ross with her to live in London. When/why did their relationship become so distant?

I really hope we get more fill-in-the-blanks backstory for the new show. Just about every quality drama I can think of in modern times has done this to explain character motivations, and the fact that "Dallas" was on 20 years ago in no way explains, for instance, how J.R. ended up depressed and mute (!! - since when does depression keep you from speaking?!) in an old folks' home. As if J.R. Fucking Ewing wouldn't have a mansion and a harem of hot female home aide workers at his bedside in his elderly years!

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 31406/29/2012

RENEWED.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 31506/29/2012

Why is Sue Ellen on the show? Or Cliff Barnes? It looks like stunt casting that doesn't further the story at all. With Cliff Barnes I have a feeling that he is having a hidden agenda, so he may actually have a purpose. But Sue Ellen? What's her purpose? For lending money they could have just brought in a cheap five-line actor. In an interview Cynthia Cidre said that Sue Ellen has developed into a role where she finally has grown comfortable with being the Southern Belle (or something like that). I don't see that aspect at all right now with her five lines per show.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 31606/30/2012

Lately in one of Sue Ellen's rare sightings (looking so young) I have to remind myself that she is a regular on the show, and not some other new female character.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 31706/30/2012

Are we sure Victoria Principal isn't going to make a surprise appearance in the finale? They've mentioned Pam on every episode so far.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 31806/30/2012

[quote]At the end of the second TV movie Sue Ellen and Bobby owned Ewing Oil. Cliff must have gotten it back. Not sure how and why because he wanted to sell it in the movie.

The producers have said they are ignoring what happened in the TV movies, in part because Hagman and Duffy don't think they were any good. Of course, fans will tell you they're ignoring continuity with the original series too.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 31907/01/2012

I don't think Victoria Principal will appear in the finale of the new version of Dallas.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 32007/01/2012

I was pretty psyched to hear about the Dallas reboot. And getting to see the old gang back in the first couple of episodes was fun. But I have to admit, it's a bit dull. And it's not like I have a hidden agenda here, for instance, "show us more of Lucy Ewing" or something like that.

Incidentally, r311, we weren't forced to change costumes behind the port-o-potties, but I did have to share my tiny dressing room with the cow from the birthing scene.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 32107/01/2012

R314, JR was pretending. I thought that angle was obvious.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 32207/01/2012

Maybe next season they can bring back Charlie (the dreaded offspring of Jenna Wade), recast of course! She could a villainess who is angry at the Ewings for something or other regarding the treatment her mom got when she was with them. Just a way to tie in the old with the new again.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 32307/03/2012

Wouldn't Lucas Wade (or is it Krebbs) make more sense to be the neglected family member?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 32407/03/2012

Didn't Ray and Donna have a child as well? A daughter right?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 32507/03/2012

I'm supposed to believe that Christopher and John Ross would be hot for that teeth & hair on a spray-tanned stick?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 32607/04/2012

And I have a hard time to believe that Bobby never googled the Del-Sol-foundation or Marta's name?

Besides the story having some holes I think it needs to move a little bit faster.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 32707/04/2012

I was glad JR brought up Jock to Bobby. All we hear is Miss Ellie, Miss Ellie, Miss Ellie, but Southfork is Jock's legacy, too.

It was funny when dumb John Ross told JR he should have him arrested. Didn't the little fucker do things that are just as criminal as JR? He's the one who started the Marta scheme in the first place.

I'll happily hug hot daddy Mitch Pileggi.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 32807/05/2012

In just one short scene, daddy Mitch made for a more charismatic bad guy than John Ross.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 32907/05/2012

[quote]I was glad JR brought up Jock to Bobby. All we hear is Miss Ellie, Miss Ellie, Miss Ellie, but Southfork is Jock's legacy, too.

Ewing Oil is Jock's legacy.

Southfork belonged to Miss Ellie. It was her father's ranch.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 33007/05/2012

[quote]And I have a hard time to believe that Bobby never googled the Del-Sol-foundation or Marta's name?

R327, the first episode made it clear that there is a Del Sol Foundation and there is a Marta Del Sol; the only problem was that the woman representing herself as Marta was an impostor. Yes, one could logically argue that it would've made sense for Bobby to look her up on Facebook or Google Images, but suspension of belief is necessary for many parts of this or any other show. For instance, does it make sense that Christopher would believe Elena dumped him via e-mail and never actually speak to her about it in person? Or that J.R. was in a deep-enough depression to render him verbally mute, but suddenly sprung to life merely at the thought of obtaining some oil? Or that anyone with Sue Ellen's kind of alcoholic, adultery-filled, slutty past (remember that she fucked the teen pool boy for a while!) has a snowball's chance in hell of becoming Texas governor?

[quote]I'll happily hug hot daddy Mitch Pileggi.

Me too, and I'm hoping he becomes a more regular character on the show. J.R. can't be the only patriarchal villain on this thing; it needs a somewhat older, but not "old," character with gravitas to counterbalance him (like Cliff did on the original), and Bobby's wife's ex -- who also happens to be an oil-industry bigwig -- fits the part perfectly.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 33107/05/2012

It looked like in the preview Bobby punched Mitch Pileggi.

I'd like to see Bobby's biological son show up, with all kinds of abandonment issues.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 33207/05/2012

Last night's episode was pretty good.

How long will Larry Hagman's hiatus from the show be?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 33307/05/2012

[quote]How long will Larry Hagman's hiatus from the show be?

I was wondering that, too. I remember reading when the show first premiered that Hagman had to exit filming for a few weeks due to needing some sort of GI surgery (the article wasn't any more suspicious of that). Unfortunately this gave me flashbacks of the last time a Ewing man left the show indefinitely; that was when Jock took off to South America in one of the show's early seasons, and the actor who played him, Jim Davis, died a few months later. Not a great omen!

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 33407/05/2012

I was hoping they'd use Hagman's absence as an excuse to have JR go fetch Pam or something...

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 33507/05/2012

I saw promo pics for next week's episode, and JR is in them, so he's not taking a hiatus from the show. Just from the city of Dallas. I guess we'll get to see him scheming in some other locale for awhile, so that John Ross can be put to the test.

I think the show has potential, but they need to bring back more characters from the original in addition to using Sue Ellen more. A little less Elena, please. She is horrific and charm free. No chemistry with either John Ross or Christopher.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 33607/05/2012

It's really bothering me that Bobby's study is where the dining room used to be.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 33707/05/2012

And I miss those bitchy cocktail hours which were the highlights of episodes.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 33807/05/2012

[quote]It's really bothering me that Bobby's study is where the dining room used to be.

And I thought I was the only one!! I was also chagrined to discover on this week's show that J.R.'s living suite is right next to the living room. How utterly gauche! (and, like the study, not at all in keeping with the original - all the bedrooms were very clearly situated upstairs) It also doesn't make a lick of sense if you consider that the sliding-glass door into what is now J.R.'s suite was the family's primary means of exiting the house on the original show, too.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 33907/05/2012

Anyone else rooting for J.R. to rape Southfork?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 34007/05/2012

[quote]For instance, does it make sense that Christopher would believe Elena dumped him via e-mail and never actually speak to her about it in person?

Wasn't the fake email from Christopher to Elena? Chris then thought she'd she'd dumped him when she didn't turn up for their wedding and ran off to Mexico with John Ross (or something like that).

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 34107/05/2012

[quote]Besides the story having some holes I think it needs to move a little bit faster.

I think the story is unfolding at just the right speed. Quite a bit has happened to these people in the month or so the show has been on: a cancer scare, operation and recovery, a wedding, a big barbeque, a charity ball, drilling, testing, recovery from practical catatonia, preparing to move, preparing to not move and on and on... Why is half the world ADD and can't just take the time to explore some interaction between characters and the careful development of them?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 34207/06/2012

Preparing to move and then not to move are not exactly the twist and turns that keep me on the edge of my seat. I think what I meant to say is that there should be more happening to the characters. I am not for ADD-like story writing either. But I still like to see lots of challenges for a character. I think Revenge is doing a great job these days to tell lots of stotries and twists and yet deepen characters as they go on. You never know what's going to happen. In Dallas you knew in episode 1 that JR would try to purchase the ranch and finally five episodes later it finally happened. And the viewer can finally wonder what's going to happen next. Another example: Rebecca Sutter have a hidden agenda where the brother is moreushy than the sister who has second thougts. That was played out in episode 2. From that point on there was practically no develpment anymore, only she dragging and he pushing.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 34307/06/2012

I agree, R343. Revenge is so much better. Actually, Dallas reminds me of the pace you see on Walking Dead - they don't have the money for a big, blow-out, so they plod along with character development. And seriously - Southfork looks like a mobile home inside.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 34407/06/2012

I think the show is fine. Pacing and storytelling wise. It is obvious that they didn't have a huge budget for this season. Perhaps TNT will give them more money to work with for the second season. I was very surprised they used the actual interiors of Southfork for this which are not glamorous by any means (I've been there). Again it must have been cheaper to do this.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 34507/06/2012

I enjoyed this week's episode more, it's starting to get more interesting. But don't you want to see more of the veterans? It would be great to get more of the old-timers involved instead of just J.R. And Bobby, no? Tell us if you want to see, say, a chunky bleached-blonde southern gal involved in more of the dirty dealings.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 34607/06/2012

R346, I'd rather see that chunky girl's emaciated mommy and daddy.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 34707/06/2012

I'd also love a flashback or two. Just a scene of Miss Ellie talking about no drilling on the land so they can cement to newer viewers what exactly is going on.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 34807/06/2012

r348

Awesome idea about the flashbacks but can TNT use CBS clips?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 34907/06/2012

They need SOMETHING. For Christ's sake, they don't even show photos or portraits of Miss Ellie or Jock.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 35007/06/2012

I've been wondering why they have not shown Jock's portrait. That picture was a character in itself on the oringal series. Probably a money thing as well. Would they owe some sort of royalty to Jim Davis' family?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 35107/06/2012

The funniest thing about the episode was millionaire Bobby Ewing doing all his own packing.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 35207/06/2012

I'm only three episodes in, but I'm not liking it very much.

Larry Hagman is really the best thing about the show for me, so I'm thinking that's not a good sign.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 35307/06/2012

What happened to Pam? Did she die?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 35407/06/2012

I wondered that too, r351. That portrait was a focal point of Southfork's interior. I'd also love them to bring back Pam, Jenna, maybe even Donna. They could even bring back Jenilee Harrison for all I care. I love the nostalgia angle. I agree with the poster who said there's too much Elena. She is a dull character and the actress needs to gain a few pounds, she has major Annorexia face. I also hope that next season they give the actors the triple-screen opening shots like they did in the original. I don't understand why they haven't done that this season, when they've tried to stick as close to the original opening sequence as possible, just without the "stars" appearing on screen.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 35507/06/2012

R354-Pam was involved in a car crash in 87 and severely burned. Wanting to spare bobby and christopher the pain of seeing her that way and her recovery she divorced bobby and left dallas. Cliff tracked her down in 88 and she told him she was marrying her doctor and forget he had a sister. When cliff left she told the doctor she didnt want her family to see her die and it was best she stayed away. Did she die? The character was never seen again. I think she didnt die. Pam wouldnt stay away from bobby and christopher so an impostor or pams crazy sister katherine might be involved. With the series renewed theres a good chance pam will be back even if they have to recast.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 35607/06/2012

There's not room for Pam on your TV screens when I am around.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 35707/07/2012

How Cliff wound up owning Ewing Oil is a long and complicated story, but I will try to explain.

J.R. hired mercenaries in Iraq to drive down the cost of foreign oil. The Government found out and in a plea deal, the Ewings were forced to sell Ewing Oil. Or face jail time.

A year later Bobby got the company back (another story there) and was its sole owner, much to J.R.'s chagrin.

Few years later, Bobby devastated by the death of wife number #2, Bobby sold Ewing Oil to Lee Ann De La Vega (played by Barbara Eden).

Lee Ann was an old flame of J.R. and vowed revenge. She in turn sold Ewing Oil to another of J.R. enemies Michelle Stevens.

In another complicated twist, Michelle wound up marrying Cliff (while drunk), and signed over 50% of Ewing Oil to him. J.R. later blackmailed Michelle into giving him the other 50%.

Then the board of directors approached J.R. to be CEO of Weststar Oil. On the condition he rid himself of Ewing Oil. Not wanting to be in business with Cliff, and being CEO of the biggest oil company in the world, J.R. agreed. And that is how Cliff had 100% of Ewing Oil, J.R. signed it over to him, in exchange to be CEO of Weststar.

But the double crossing isn't done yet. The minute J.R. signed over Ewing Oil to Cliff, but who walks into the room. Dusty Farlow. As the largest shareholder of Weststar, he fires J.R. who now has no company to run.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 35807/07/2012

How did Dusty Farlow end up having control of Weststar? I think his aunt/mother had something to do with it but I don't remember.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 35907/07/2012

Whose cock is bigger? John Ross' or Christopher?

That's all.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 36007/07/2012

I'd gladly measure them both in my mouth, R360.

Brenda Strong's hair is parted on the wrong side. It's bothering me.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 36107/08/2012

[quote]Brenda Strong's hair is parted on the wrong side. It's bothering me.

Angle a mirror to the side, and watch it in the reflection. I ain't changing my rockin' 'do!

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 36207/08/2012

Jesse Metcalfe is rumored to be uncut but only average size. Never heard any rumors on Josh's cock.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 36307/09/2012

Oh my god, R362. I kept thinking I knew her from somewhere but could not put my finger on it. She is the "other" Sue Ellen.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 36407/09/2012

I'm watching old Dallas episodes right now, 3rd and 4th season. Pam is always grumpy and nagging every time she is on. She is either arguing with Bobby or with Cliff. Don't see why either wanted her back.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 36507/10/2012

Damn, R358, I thought I'd had a good memory! Your recall, however, leaves out the events of the two reunion movies. We last left off with J.R., Bobby and Sue Ellen each with equal control of Ewing Oil. I don't recall how they all got it back from Cliff, however, nor has anyone explained how Cliff somehow ended up with the entire company in the reboot.

[quote]I was very surprised they used the actual interiors of Southfork for this which are not glamorous by any means (I've been there). Again it must have been cheaper to do this.

Only the pilot's interiors were filmed at Southfork. The "new" interior is *based* on the actual Southfork set, but not a duplicate. I've been there, too, and there is no study by the front door, nor is there a ground-floor bedroom overlooking the pool.

Btw regardless of one's personal beliefs about the show's aesthetics, I don't think it's at all fair either to compare the show and its budget to "The Walking Dead" or argue that it was shot on the cheap. Quite the contrary: unlike the original, where only the first two seasons were filmed entirely on location in Dallas, the reboot is produced wholly in the Dallas area. The sets for Southfork are all on a soundstage, yes, but one in Dallas this time, not in Hollywood. Each episode has a copious amount of location shooting, both at the ranch and in Dallas proper, none of which is cheap. Finally, the original actors almost certainly aren't being paid on par what they were in the '80s, but I can assure you that they used more than peanuts to lure the show's biggest three stars out of retirement, all of whom were set for life solely on what they made from the original. This is in stark contrast to "The Walking Dead," which couldn't be produced with the same level of production values and on location in Atlanta if they didn't have a cast composed entirely of unknown actors -- and that was the case even BEFORE AMC lopped 30% off its budget.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 36607/10/2012

I was hoping Sue Ellen would bitch slap John Ross when he was trying to manipulate her into helping him.

I'm not a straight guy, but isn't crazy Marta a lot hotter than Elena? More realistically, wouldn't John Ross continue to tap that and string her along?

Assistant Director Skinner was again the most compelling character in this week's episode.

And I wish the scar between Rebecca's eyes would get a back story.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 36707/11/2012

Bobby is getting on my nerves with his sanctimonious attitude.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 36807/11/2012

This show has already gotten as dull as the original.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 36907/11/2012

[quote]I'm not a straight guy, but isn't crazy Marta a lot hotter than Elena?

Yes, but you've obviously never dated a bipolar type. I have. Their hotness level is irrelevant when they're off their meds and calling or texting you upwards of 50 times a day. I once had to get my apartment re-keyed after a male version of Elena I dated showed up unannounced at 3am and crawled into bed with me.

[quote]I was hoping Sue Ellen would bitch slap John Ross when he was trying to manipulate her into helping him.

Nah. Sue Ellen feels guilty for sending him off to boarding school and generally ignoring him her whole life. Btw she did offer Director Skinner *the* most coveted appointment in Texas: a chair on the Texas Railroad Commission which, despite its name, regulates the entire Texas oil & gas industry. In the pre-OPEC days, it was the single most powerful oil commission in the world. I'm surprised he would let her "compromise herself" in such a fashion, though clearly that huge check he gave her has to-be-determined strings attached.

R368, Bobby was always sanctimonious; if anything he's mellowed with age. I can't even remember the number of times he stormed off of Southfork or out of Ewing Oil in a huff over some new deal of J.R.'s that he didn't approve of.

I hope you "Knots" fans were happy that Gary was mentioned tonight! (I guess that means he's still alive and well and could hypothetically appear on the new show)

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 37007/12/2012

r370 - Wasn't it Uncle Garrison (Southworth), not Gary Ewing who was mentioned?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 37107/12/2012

No, Gary was mentioned as one of the owners of the mineral rights at Southfork.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 37207/12/2012

I've been finding Jesse Metcalfe so sexy, when usually I think he's a big douche. He looks sorta cuddly.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 37307/12/2012

Doesn't he look kinda bloated?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 37407/12/2012

A little, but I think he's got some fat genes. He looks like the kind of guy who really has to watch what he eats and how much he exercises in order to maintain his weight.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 37507/12/2012

[quote] How did Dusty Farlow end up having control of Weststar? I think his aunt/mother had something to do with it but I don't remember.

His biological mother is Lady Jessica Montford (Clayton's sister). Dusty grew up thinking Clayton was his father, when in fact he is his uncle.

Dusty's biological father held the largest shares of Weststar. When he died, Dusty inherited all his shares, which put him in control of Weststar.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 37607/12/2012

I agree Pam was crabby for a while but the show got back on track with her; when Bobby proposed to Pam...'will you... marry me? again?'

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 37707/12/2012

I'd bring Pam back by setting up another competition between JR and Bobby (or John Ross and Christopher) and the only way Bobby/Chris can win is if they get the rights to....

the tundra torque!

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 37807/12/2012

Hutcherson and Metcalfe are at least ten years too young for John Ross and Bobby. I normally hate him but John Barrowman would have been a good choice (and the right age) to play John Ross.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 37907/12/2012

Oops, i meant Henderson, of course.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 38007/12/2012

R93/Dallas fanatic, you are completely wrong about it being a total mystery over that summer about the previous season being a dream. I worked for Soap Opera Weekly at the time and we all heard about it in July. I'm pretty sure The Enquirer leaked it in August or so. I remember telling a British friend about it at a party in August and she didn't believe me. I see her from time to time and she always reminds me that I was the one who told her that an entire season of Dallas would end up being Pam's dream.

My casting would have been John Barrowman for John Ross and Dylan McDermott for Christopher.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 38107/12/2012

r379 - No, they are almost exactly the right ages. John Ross was born in 1979 & Christopher in 1981.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 38207/12/2012

r371

It was (uncle) Garrison's army discharge papers. I wonder if any of the documents hat Bobby said by name will propel story like Miss Ellie's birth certificate.

Do pregnant women typically get nose bleeds as a symptom of sperm poisoning?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 38307/12/2012

Josh Henderson is on Chelsea Lately, tonight. In case any of you want to start pre-lubing.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 38407/12/2012

This new show is really good. I'm totally into it. The old cast are as great as ever, and the newbies bring the pretty in spades. I don't know who's prettier--Josh or Jesse. Josh looks just like a Lawrence brother.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 38507/12/2012

John Ross would be 32/33, Christopher should be about 31. I think the casting is spot on.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 38607/13/2012

Also meant to say Larry Hagman and Patrick Duffy were about ten years OLDER than the roles they were playing which is why they look more like the grandfathers than the dads today.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 38707/13/2012

So what is the deal with Ann's necklace? Maybe she and Harris had a daughter who got killed and the necklace was hers?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 38807/13/2012

More of hot Daddy Pileggi. Every episode should be about him.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 38907/13/2012

Miss Ellie was determined to prevent drilling on the ranch, JR and Bobby have been fighting about it for decades.... and yet nobody knew anything all this time about the mineral rights?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 39007/13/2012

Josh Henderson was on Chelsea Lately tonight and she called him out as gay. Three times.

Fun stuff.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 39107/13/2012

I also remember that Carter McKay tried to get parts of the ranch because he wanted to drill. After Clayton and Ellie had found out about the reason for his desire to purchase the ranch they gave in and sold him parts of the land but pointed out that drilling rights were not included.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 39207/13/2012

No she didn't, R391. You're full of shit.

She did call him out for trying to act black though.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 39307/13/2012

Chelsea was a bit obnoxious with that gay stuff, but Henderson was good about it. And no, she didn't 'call him out'.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 39407/13/2012

[quote] and yet nobody knew anything all this time about the mineral rights?

Everyone knew about the mineral rights. It was discussed in season 3.

J.R. mortgaged Southfork behind Miss Ellie back. and the bank was about to foreclose.

However the mineral rights were willed to Miss Ellie from her father Aaron Southworth. The land was never to be used for anything other than ranching, which is why Miss Ellie held the mineral rights.

However she was forced to consent to start drilling on the land, in order to get an extension on the mortgage. And Miss Ellie signed the papers.

But before drilling could start, J.R. struck oil and didn't need the minerals on Southfork after all.

So Miss Ellie kept the mineral rights, and no drilling was allowed on Southfork.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 39507/13/2012

Okay - seriously - you basement dwellers gotta take this Dallas history bitchfest to Wikipedia or something, already.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 39607/13/2012

I laughed out loud when Duffy bitchslapped Mitch Pileggi. He just jacked him up and gave him a backhanded smack like a little bitch.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 39707/13/2012

[quote]More of hot Daddy Pileggi. Every episode should be about him.

THIS. Mitch, on this show, looks just like the vice president of the company I work for. Bald head, salt-n-pepper goatee, ruddy complextion, fit bod...everything.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 39807/13/2012

R381, how could you have worked for Soap Opera Weekly in '86 when SPW didn't come along until 1989?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 39907/13/2012

R396, people can't have it both ways; if you're going to pick up with DALLAS then stick to the history.

If not, just call it a new show like - A FAMILY IN TEXAS or CAPRICORN CRUDE.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 40007/13/2012

[quote]Everyone knew about the mineral rights. It was discussed in season 3.

Well, according to this latest episode, nobody in all the years they've been bickering over this ever knew the land and mineral rights were separated, until they found it in a safety deposit box that was somehow overlooked when Miss Ellie's father died. I find that hard to believe.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 40107/13/2012

r387 - Patrick Duffy is 63, so he's about the right age for his character. Larry Hagman is 80, so yeah, he's *at least* 10 years too old. Same with Ken Kercheval (Cliff Barnes). Linda Gray is older than Sue Ellen should be too, but it's not as noticeable.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 40207/13/2012

R401 those mineral rights were held by Miss Ellie and it was discussed in season 3.

Really surprising they are re-writing history.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 40307/13/2012

[quote]So Miss Ellie kept the mineral rights, and no drilling was allowed on Southfork.

In that case, Miss Ellie must have had 100% ownership of Southfork -- surface as well as mineral rights -- when she died and left it to Bobby. Since I was actually curious about the legality of all this in real life, I asked a friend of mine who happens to be a family & estates lawyer in Texas. He said that there is no possible way, in the state of Texas, for a parcel that size to be sold without a specific discussion of mineral rights in the contract. In other words, when Bobby sold the ranch to the woman he thought was Marta Del Sol, it would've been for the surface land *and* mineral rights. Aaron Southworth's will would have been irrelevant, since Miss Ellie's later one would've superseded it. Thus, J.R. should have the whole shebang ... except he doesn't. I'll be curious to see if there's anything else on this topic on the show, or if Bobby has "won" the battle for now. (If the latter, bets on how long it'll take for those Central American cartel people to threaten to kill Christopher?)

[quote]Really surprising they are re-writing history.

Well, they *did* "forget" that Ray and Lucy were once lovers when it was later revealed that Ray was Jock's son (and thus Lucy's aunt). Also, it's a stretch, to put it mildly, that J.R. somehow ended up in the poorhouse (this was referenced this week when J.R. had to borrow a million dollars from Senor Del Sol to play poker against Cliff). As if ol' J.R. wouldn't ALWAYS have at least $20-$30 million stashed away in some Swiss bank account for "emergencies"!

Oh, also: they've been rewriting history already as to Southfork's location. The fictional town and county of Bradock, where the series was always set, has disappeared; both on maps and in letterhead, Southfork is now located in the town of Parker (which is where the real Southfork is actually located, north of Dallas), and it's supposedly in Dallas County (not true - Parker's in a neighboring county).

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 40407/13/2012

Anyone remember the TV movie prequel to Dallas? It starred Dale Midkiff as Jock Ewing and someone named Molly something as Ellie Southworth. I see her in small roles on various TV shows now.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 40507/13/2012

I remember it but it's been many years since I've seen it.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 40607/13/2012

Thank God some of us can watch the new show without obsessing endlessly about each little detail from the original run of the show that occurred in the late 1970s and mid 80s! In general, the continuity has been strong compared to a lot of other things (like that shitty Star Trek movie redux.)

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 40707/13/2012

GAWD, scar nose bitch is soooo fucking dull and not pretty. How the hell did she get this meaty role?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 40807/16/2012

Fuck off, R407. It's a discussion thread and we'll bitch about anything we want to.

Go police some other thread.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 40907/16/2012

Sue Ellen's arms in that first dress last Wednesday!!!!!! Eeeck! Love her and all, but this is what chiffon sleeves were invented for.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 41007/16/2012

It is silly and tiresome to complain about every fucking deviation from the show's history.

So you know every last detail about the show's original run. Who fucking cares, Grandpa. Kvetch about it with the rest of the biddies in the nursing home.

Fucking Christ.

I wish the TV threads here were run like they are at TWoP. Keep the insane basement dwellers in their own thread where they can talk about 'history.'

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 41107/16/2012

[quote] Miss Ellie must have had 100% ownership of Southfork -- surface as well as mineral rights

She did have 100% ownership of Southfork -- surface as well as mineral rights. Knowing how J.R. always wanted to drill on Southfork, Miss Ellie willed Southfork to Bobby.

It makes no sense that J.R. Gary and Bobby would each have one-third of Southfork. Miss Ellie would never give Southfork to J.R. knowing how much he wanted to get his hands on section 40.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 41207/16/2012

Good episode tonight. Lucy was on. Hot Daddy Mithch Pillegi is on round up.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 41307/18/2012

Love that they gave Lucy some actual lines this time.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 41407/18/2012

Jesse Metcalfe's acting wasn't distractingly awful for the first couple of eps, but it seems to be getting worse. It's like with every plot twist he gets even more confused how Christopher should react and now just does the pinch face whenever he reacts to anything complicated.

Noticed there was a painting of Jock & Ellie up over the fireplace. It lacks Jock's white cowboy hat of judgment like the old painting.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 41507/19/2012

Oh, and did anyone else think that John Ross was offering Vicente sexual favours when he was batting his eyes up at him and stuttering about "what if I were willing to offer a trade for more time?"

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 41607/19/2012

R411/OP, I don't think it's minor to say that Miss Ellie having a breakdown after Jock died is a minor continuity mistake.

It never happened and if they're going to base current story on it, well, they shouldn't!

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 41707/19/2012

OP can fuck off. This show is a re-boot and anyone watching clearly is invested in the history and continuity.

You don't own this thread. We'll discuss whatever we want.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 41807/19/2012

Glad you bitches enjoyed me getting' involved in the action this week. 'Bout fuckin' time, right?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 41907/19/2012

Larry Hagman on the cover of EW this week! Here we go...

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 42007/19/2012

It's obvious that Rebecca is Ann's long-lost "dead" daughter, right?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 42107/19/2012

[quote]Miss Ellie would never give Southfork to J.R. knowing how much he wanted to get his hands on section 40.

She probably assumed, rightly at that, that Bobby and Gary would keep J.R. from drilling since they hold a majority stake.

[quote]It's obvious that Rebecca is Ann's long-lost "dead" daughter, right?

Yes. What an entirely unoriginal turn of events, considering the history of the show. A long-lost daughter PALES in comparison to an entire season being "just a dream"!

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 42207/19/2012

[quote]It's obvious that Rebecca is Ann's long-lost "dead" daughter, right?

It's not obvious to me. Wasn't it mentioned that her parents died in an accident?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 42307/19/2012

r421

why is it obvious?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 42407/19/2012

I dont't want her to be Ann's daughter. It would be much more interesting if she was Cliff and Afton's, that way they could continue the Barnes/Ewing feud into the next generation.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 42507/19/2012

I hope Rebecca isn't Anne's daughter. That is way too lame. I was hoping it would turn out Rebecca and Tommy weren't really siblings but lovers who were just scamming everyone. The babies could really be Tommy's to leave Christopher off the hook to be with Elena.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 42607/19/2012

Well, maybe it's not OBVIOUS that Rebecca is Ann's daughter but I think that's the way they're going with it.

I'm with those that think Rebecca and Tommy are lovers. I can see a story where Ann may have thought she was responsible for her daughter's being kidnapped. Maybe she was drunk at the time. Maybe the hot daddy hubby arranged for her to be kidnapped after he found out he wasn't the baby's bio daddy. And the little girl turns out to be Rebecca.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 42707/19/2012

I would rather Rebecca and Tommy be the grandchildren of Hutch McKinney and they wanted revenge against the Ewing and Barnes family.

As the only biological kin of Pam, that would be a much interesting storyline.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 42807/20/2012

[quote]As the only biological kin of Pam, that would be a much interesting storyline.

Cliff is Pam's biological kin, they had the same mother.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 42907/20/2012

Anne is Pam. You heard it here first.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 43007/20/2012

R430, Mike Ausiello, a TV journalist, said there's a plastic surgery rumor going on re Dallas.

I'd rather it be that Ann is actually Katherine Wentworth, not Pam. Isn't she too tall to be Pam, anyway?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 43107/20/2012

r431

link?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 43207/20/2012

If Ann has to be a plastic surgeried character from the past, I'll throw my hat into the ring for Kristin resurrected. It would at least give Sue Ellen something more to do.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 43307/20/2012

If Ann was Kristen, shouldn't they have shown Ann as having much more interest in Christopher, her son? ALso the pics that burned looked like Brenda still

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 43407/20/2012

I'm not saying it's plausible, R434, I'm just saying I'd give anything at this stage for Sue Ellen to actually interact with people other than that horrible Elena person.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 43507/20/2012

Sue Ellen is no fun unless she's drinking

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 43607/20/2012

Did Bobby know that he was the baby daddy of Jenna's son? Or did Ray and Jenna keep it a secret?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 43707/20/2012

Here ya go, R432. But it only mentions a "plastic surgery rumor" without any speculation.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 43807/20/2012

I couldn't agree more, r436. Was just telling my partner, who never watched the show, how her character was always best when she was either drunk, or drinking was a part of her storyline. I hope something makes her fall off the wagon.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 43907/20/2012

Maybe it'll be Harris Ryland, R439? That hot daddy could end up with Sue Ellen and drive her to drinking again.

Has she mentioned the Ian McShane movie director character yet? What happened to him?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 44007/20/2012

[quote] I hope something makes her fall off the wagon.

Linda Gray said if Sue Ellen starts drinking again she's out. She doesn't want to play her going backward.

[quote]Has she mentioned the Ian McShane movie director character yet? What happened to him?

They said in "J.R. Returns" that they had divorced.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 44107/20/2012

You just know that Linda Gray insisted that she would only come back if Sur Ellen was a "strong, independent woman" or whatever... Not realizing that characters like that are no fun.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 44207/20/2012

Linda Gray has said over the years she was tired of 'drinking and having affairs, having affairs and drinking'

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 44307/21/2012

[quote] But it only mentions a "plastic surgery rumor" without any speculation.

I bet it's Rebecca, it would explain the scar on her forehead. Before the surgery she used to be Lucas Krebbs, Jenna's and Bobby's son, now dating his adopted son and carrying his baby in an implanted womb. That would bring Dallas to the new level.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 44407/21/2012

Can anyone link to what the actual plastic surgery rumor is? I've googled and have come up empty handed.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 44507/21/2012

R445, it's at my link. But it's only a "plastic surgery" rumor as I stated, no speculation was included.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 44607/21/2012

[quote]Love that they gave Lucy some actual lines this time.

Her line about finding John Ross passed out drunk and knowing that he was his mother's son was bitchy and awesome.

I want the Ann who was wielding a shotgun in the pilot, not a weepy mess. Brenda Strong is playing the hell out of it, and the chemistry between Ann and Bobby is great, but since she's there as the surrogate Miss Ellie, I wish she had more of Miss Ellie's backbone.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 44707/22/2012

r447

Did that scene actually happen on Dallas 1.0?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 44807/22/2012

I doubt it r448. Lucy was barely around in the later years when John Ross would have been a pre-teen. It was still a good line though.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 44907/23/2012

I had forgotten that Charlene returned to the series towards the end for a brief while. The drunk kid thing could have taken place then. That sort of continuity I can deal with. Having a tree with Jock Love Ellie and ONLY Bobby Loves Ann and Christopher Loves Rebecca is harder to swallow. God knows if Jock and Ellie put their brand on there back even as late as 1978, that tree would be covered with the names of couples, some of who would be crossed out! ha!

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 45007/23/2012

How did the coroner know Sue Ellen so well that he called herby name? WTF?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 45107/25/2012

Who could Rebecca or her brother be? The brother can't be Lucas Wade. Could Rebecca be Afton's daughter?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 45207/25/2012

Was it any good tonight? I was falling asleep through it. I woke up right at the end when Rebecca was making out with her brother.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 45307/26/2012

Rebecca's scar is so distracting!

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 45407/26/2012

there's a great twist coming in the finale involving an original cast member

I was very pleased and I'm a diehard.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 45507/26/2012

Christ. EVERYONE in this show - aside from the vets but down to the extras and under-fives - is Latino. Or Latina.

Everyone.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 45607/26/2012

[quote]Christ. EVERYONE in this show - aside from the vets but down to the extras and under-fives - is Latino. Or Latina.

Everyone.

Have you been to Texas lately?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 45707/26/2012

[quote] Who could Rebecca or her brother be?

I keep thinking they are the grandchildren of Hutch McKinney

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 45807/26/2012

r458

who?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 45907/26/2012

Pam's biological father

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 46007/26/2012

[quote]there's a great twist coming in the finale involving an original cast member

It has to be Pam, right? They've done so much denying that she will come back.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 46107/26/2012

I think so too r461. I mean she's been mentioned in almost every episode. Why keep referencing her?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 46207/26/2012

They've also mentioned Gary, Jock and Ellie.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 46307/26/2012

It appears there are only 2 more episodes this season?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 46407/27/2012

I thought the first few episodes were fun, but the last few have been really slow.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 46507/27/2012

They only did ten episodes. The finale airs August 8th. The show will be back in January with 15 new episodes.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 46607/27/2012

Where did you hear it's coming back in January? All I heard was sometime in 2013.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 46707/27/2012

uhhh... r467

January IS 2013

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 46807/27/2012

Umm...2013 has 12 months. It could be anytime in that year, not just January.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 46907/27/2012

I think Josh Henderson posted a tweet where he stated January. Filming definitely starts next month.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 47007/27/2012

So who buys it? Harris Ryland or Tommy Sutter?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 47108/01/2012

At this point I hope that Rebecca is out next season.Can't stand her anymore. She still doesn't come clean to Christopher and yet she doesn't come up with a plan either way. I hope she gets one more scene where she explans the scar and then exits.

Other than that I really enjoyed this episode. I like the way they show JR now. Everybody of the old casts sees him as the family member who needs to be taken care of because he has nothing (even if he is going to be back bigger than ever) I like this angle. He is like a special needs kid, totally oblivious of his own condition.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 47208/02/2012

Rebecca and her crumple face are tiresome. Hard to believe such a wimp was working a long con, much less that it was her idea. If Christopher did a background check on her like he said he did, why doesn't he already know she & Tommy aren't related?

I agree, the way they're handling the JR character is good. But Larry Hagman looked so frail, it's hard to imagine him lasting much longer.

I did crack up watching the scene where Christopher comes up with the idea of Ewing Energies - Jesse Metcalfe attempting to portray a thought coming into his head was priceless.

r471 - I'm guessing Tommy plus possibly Rebecca will miscarry. They do need to find other ways of getting rid of troublemakers besides killing them off though. Fake Marta *and* fake brother both die before they can do their worst?

I hope Harris Ryland is a recurring character like Jeremy Wendell from the original series.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 47308/02/2012

[quote]If Christopher did a background check on her like he said he did, why doesn't he already know she & Tommy aren't related?

Rebecca Sutter probably isn't her real name.

And she can't be Cliff & Afton's daughter because both John Ross & Christopher met her in one of the TV movies. Unless the writers have decided to conveniently forget that. Besides, it would be kind of incestuous (yes, I know Christopher isn't Pam's biological son, but still).

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 47408/02/2012

I'd like for them to say definitively what happened to Pam, but I can't believe VP would reprise the role. Besides, isn't she a crazy alcoholic now? Working with her would be a nightmare, I would imagine.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 47508/02/2012

I thought last night's episode -- with J.R. finally back in a real capacity -- was one of the best to date, and the scene with him and Bobby was really well-done on both actors' parts. I also like the idea of Ewing Energies, and Chris and John Ross working together on it.

Still, I'm bothered by some inconsistencies, dangling plot threads, and just plain weird stuff:

**A few episodes back J.R. asked Carlos Del Sol to borrow $1 million to play against Cliff in a Vegas poker game. Well ... what the fuck happened?! Why wasn't there any follow-up scene of J.R. (presumably) winning, or any mention of what happened?

**Glad to see the old Ewing vanity plates return, as well as Christopher having the plate "EWING 6" (which those of you with long memories will remember was Pam's plate). But then this week they showed John Ross with "EWING V" (I assume V as in Roman numeral for 5) - huh?!? Also, why don't Bobby or Pam have personalized plates, and who, exactly, would have the plate "EWING 1," since there are only three other Ewings on the show? (Or does Lucy still have one?)

**Still not liking how Southfork has been drastically downsized. Christopher had to sleep on the freakin' COUCH? What, the house now only has TWO bedrooms?!? What happened to his childhood room? (Ditto J.R., who kicked John Ross out of his room, never mind that John Ross presumably also had a childhood room upstairs.)

**Re: Sue Ellen running for governor. Are we now to assume she's not running? Also, I'm confused by the "Sue Ellen Ewing for Governor in 2012" posters we saw in her office this past episode; she's clearly not in the heat of a campaign right now, plus the next Texas gubernatorial election isn't until next year.

**Loved J.R. calling Ann Bobby's "wife number 3." Guess he never remarried after April was murdered. Btw if Bobby is somehow incapacitated in the finale (I seriously doubt they'd be stupid enough to kill him off), it would be a convenient time to bring Pam back. Ann presumably has Bobby's power of attorney; however, if Pam is indeed alive, then Bobby's still married to her and Pam is not actually his wife. This could also be a good way of explaining away J.R.'s absence for much of the season -- he was on the hunt for Pam and found her in Vegas! (hypothetically speaking)

Anyway, glad the show will be back so soon, plus now that they're filming in the warm-weather months (most of the current season was clearly filmed in late fall and winter), they can finally take advantage of the Southfork pool!

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 47608/02/2012

Bobby is definitely not married to Pam anymore. He signed the divorce paper the season after Pam had left. The divorce was initiated by her and was fed up with her and couldn't wait to sign the papers.

About the downsized house: I was wondering too why the have a study but no living- or family room anymore. All social life seems to take place in the kitchen now.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 47708/02/2012

[quote]A few episodes back J.R. asked Carlos Del Sol to borrow $1 million to play against Cliff in a Vegas poker game. Well ... what the fuck happened?! Why wasn't there any follow-up scene of J.R. (presumably) winning, or any mention of what happened?

Well, J.R. rushed back to Dallas after finding out about Bobby, so I'm assuming this will still be addressed later.

I'm not thrilled with the downsized Southfork and also wondered why the house apparently only has two bedrooms, although the line about J.R. being too old for a roommate was funny. What somebody upthread said about Southfork looking like a mobile home on the inside was apt. And why isn't there more furniture in Bobby & Ann's bedroom? All I recall seeing in there was a bed and a chest of drawers.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 47808/03/2012

Are these sets for the new Southfork or the actual house? The original house in the miniseries was, of course, a much bigger, grander house that also had several cottages for the married couples. I loved that.

When the "new" Southfork was used, there was a study, the living room where they had their cocktails (and home to some of the best, snappiest and most fun scenes of the entire series)and the dining room across the hall.

And an upstairs that kept expanding and expanding. Also, after the fire at the end of Season 6, Southfork's proportions grew.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 47908/03/2012

Well, if Barbara Bel Geddes or Jim Davis turns up next week, it will certainly be memorable- and kinda creepy.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 48008/03/2012

One of the promos shows the character returning coming off a private plane. It is obviously a man in black jeans and boots. Maybe Gary.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 48108/03/2012

R479, I think they filmed the 1st episode in the actual house, and subsequent episodes are filmed on a set that's designed to look like the house.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 48208/03/2012

Why would they bring Gary back? He was never a terribly important character on Dallas (except for the fact that he was Lucy's father). Knots Landing, yes. But Dallas, no.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 48308/03/2012

Dusty Farlow, the rodeo cowboy with the clipped, almost British sounding voice?

Jeff Faraday, Christopher's "biological" father?

Mark Grayson, Pam's intended in the dream season but as we know, the season before they'd been hinting he was alive?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 48408/03/2012

It won't be Faraday, he was murdered.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 48508/03/2012

For those who keep referencing the (3?) Dallas TV movies - I've read a number of articles on this revival, so I don't remember which one it was in (tv guide, ew?), but when interviewing Patrick Duffy and Larry Hagman, they said that the show is pretending the three tv movies did not happen as they all thought the movies were bad. For the show's continuity, it picks up after the last episode of the tv series.

And someone mentioned the ever expanding upstairs on the original show - I remember one of the last big weddings they had at Southfork and Sue Ellen was wandering down the upstairs hall ( I think JR was officially marring Callie, perhaps), and I thought it was so funny that this small two story house had an upstairs that resembled more of mansion with multiple rooms.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 48608/03/2012

I remember how the show never showed the kitchen until the 4th season and suddenly, half the events in the house would take place there. Where was Teresa whenever they were in the kitchen?

I also remember the upstairs hallways weren't shown until around season 6 and they got bigger and bigger.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 48708/03/2012

Perhaps Abby Ewing wears black jeans and boots now?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 48808/03/2012

Dear god, y'all.

This is a pic of the grown-up Joshua Harris, who played Christopher on the original Dallas. GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 48908/03/2012

What about the kid who played Christopher as a baby? They called him "Ugly Christopher" and that damn baby was crying in every scene. Don't know how the actors could stand him.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 49008/03/2012

r489 - Ha, so's the actor who played young John Ross. Omri Katz.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 49108/03/2012

Is Omri Katz actually gay? I saw an adult pic of him and he just looked like a big dork (ears sticking straight out).

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 49208/03/2012

[quote]About the downsized house: I was wondering too why the have a study but no living- or family room anymore. All social life seems to take place in the kitchen now.

No, it's more like a living/dining/kitchen multipurpose room, the type that is now commonplace in suburban McMansions. Apparently they felt the need to having the Ewings live like "normal people," never mind the continuity issue.

[quote]Are these sets for the new Southfork or the actual house?

The pilot was shot at the house; the rest were shot on a soundstage in South Dallas and are loosely based on the house's actual design.

[quote]For those who keep referencing the (3?) Dallas TV movies - I've read a number of articles on this revival, so I don't remember which one it was in (tv guide, ew?), but when interviewing Patrick Duffy and Larry Hagman, they said that the show is pretending the three tv movies did not happen as they all thought the movies were bad. For the show's continuity, it picks up after the last episode of the tv series.

There were only two movies, not three, and they weren't *that* bad. Continuity-wise, the last one left off with J.R., Bobby and Sue Ellen jointly owning Ewing Oil, which clearly is no longer the case. Somehow Cliff got the whole thing and, in the process, became a billionaire (as mentioned in last week's episode). J.R. was depressed and suicidal at the end of the original series, but I can't imagine him staying in that state for a full 20 years.

[quote]I also remember the upstairs hallways weren't shown until around season 6 and they got bigger and bigger.

The Southfork upstairs hallways were substantially widened right before the place caught on fire; I forget which season it was. After the fire, the producers -- apparently in an attempt to compete with the lavish surroundings on "Dynasty" -- upgraded the set substantially, making the main living room at least 50% larger and adding rooms like a gym. At one point there were at least seven bedrooms upstairs (Miss Ellie & Clayton, J.R., Sue Ellen (they lived in separate rooms for quite a while), Bobby, Lucy, John Ross and Christopher), although now there appear to be only one or two.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 49308/05/2012

I think Laura Avery Sumner would look FABULOUS in black jeans and cowboy boots, don't you? Hell, if they can bring Bobby back from the dead, they can come up with some imposter-Laura who died of a brain tumor. Just sayin'.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 49408/05/2012

Who the hell is Laura Avery Sumner?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 49508/05/2012

I am not too concerned about continuity issues because of the two movies. So far there wasn't anything in the new show that contradicted the movies. At least I haven't noticed yet. They always claimed that the new show is a continuation. I just assume that a lot happened since the second movie. In the last regular season Ewing Oil changed ownership so many times. So I assume it happened again at least one more time after the movie. So Bobby and Sue Ellen lost Ewing Oil again. If Christopher's wife turns out to be Afton's daughter, THAT would be a continuity issue, unless this is the plastic surgery surprise that's talked about.

About Pamela returning as the mystery person: Ken Kercheval just recently said in an interview that Victoria Principal is not likely to return to Dallas simply because he is done with it. But then again, he is not necessarily the go-to person when it comes to casting. Up to the shower scene Bobby was out for good too. At this point there has been so much talk about Pamela, in the show and outside the show. Whoever walks out of the plane next week better be Pamela or someone bigger and better. Everything else could be very anti-climatic given the internet talk that has raised expectations to the extreme. Maybe Margaret Michaels is about to get a career after all.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 49608/05/2012

Can't remember where I read it, but Cidre has said that the two movies are not canon. So it's plausible that Christopher has never met Afton's daughter.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 49708/06/2012

We've been in the middle of a move, and I only got caught up with this most recent episode onDemand last night.

What a great episode.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 49808/06/2012

I do think it is weird that every interview that any of the actors have given mention that VP would NOT return. Ae they protesting too much?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 49908/06/2012

R499, I don't think it's weird at all. As many times as VP has sworn up & down that she's done with it, fans continue to hold out hope. I think the actors just don't want people to harbor hope that she'll change her mind, but I'm afraid it's a lost cause.

Plus, like I've said, VP is a crazy alcoholic these days and I'm sure her former co-stars all know it. And they know it would be pure hell to work with her, no matter how much Dallas fans think she walks on water.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 50008/06/2012

Well, aside from VP coming back, not sure who else would garner the "shocking" surprise arrival they are trying to promote.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 50108/06/2012

I honestly can't imagine who it could be. I haven't seen the promo. Are they saying it's an original castmember or giving any kind of hint at all?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 50208/06/2012

I'm betting the "shocking return" isn't actually shocking at all. It's probably Cliff Barnes.

Is it just me, or does Christopher bear a disturbing resemblance to Levi Johnston?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 50308/06/2012

I'll put it this way; I've seen it and when the secret came out it made one of the show's casting decisions VERY clear to me.

Yes, R503, he does. It's distracting; Jeff Faraday was dark blond, sandy, as I recall.

There's no way he and Mary Crosby/Kristen would give birth to Metcalfe; that said, his acting hasn't been as bad as I feared. He's actually been good.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 50408/06/2012

R504, are you saying Jeff Faraday isn't really Christopher's bio dad?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 50508/06/2012

Are Christopher and Elena brother and sister? Eww!!

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 50608/06/2012

The twist is supposed to involve an original cast member r502 and that could only be so many people. They may just finally go there and reveal J.R. is Christopher's bio dad after all. Tons of story there if they really went there. I'm thinking either its that or Anne is indeed Pam.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 50708/06/2012

Can't wait to make my debut Wednesday.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 50808/06/2012

R505, no, I'm not. I'm saying that because of his dark features Metcalfe is miscast.

Pam and Bobby had the bill for Kristen's miscarriage and, while it was before DNA, the blood types showed that JR could not have been the father; in fact, when Farraday, a con man, ws passing off Christopher to Bobby, he showed a little affection to the kid. Bobby thought it was sweet.

It was b/c Farraday knew the kid was really his.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 50908/06/2012

r508

We wouldn't even recognize you though

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 51008/06/2012

Is it just me, or does Christopher bear a disturbing resemblance to Levi Johnston?

Please.

Jesse Metcalfe's ass would make Levi Johnston a Sunday face.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 51108/06/2012

R504/R509, please tell me Priscilla Presley/Jenna Wade is not returning.

I've also read a rumor that Donna will appear as Sue Ellen's campaign manager. I also hope that's not true. I don't think I could stand the sight of Susan Howard's Republicunt face.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 51208/06/2012

[quote]Well, aside from VP coming back, not sure who else would garner the "shocking" surprise arrival they are trying to promote.

I'd love for it to be Alexis Colby, though I fear DL's servers would collapse if that actually happened.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 51308/06/2012

Joan Van Ark is going to land on Southfork in an egg-shaped spacecraft and peck her way out with what's left of her nose.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 51408/07/2012

R514, now there's somebody who looks like a burn victim.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 51508/07/2012

Leigh McCloskey as Mitch would be an interesting return. I wonder what he looks like now. Damn, he was hot.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 51608/07/2012

Jesse Bradford would have a better Christopher.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 51708/07/2012

McCloskey has done some daytime soaps in recent years and has held up well.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 51808/07/2012

r518

what soaps in the past 15 years?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 51908/07/2012

R519 Santa Barbara, General Hospital, Young & Restless

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 52008/07/2012

And One Life To Live.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 52108/07/2012

I thought Leigh McCloskey died of AIDS like 25 years ago.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 52208/07/2012

[quote] McCloskey has done some daytime soaps in recent years and has held up well

Not in the last decade. I guess someone considers One Life to Live in 2000 recent. Or the Young and Restless in 1997

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 52308/07/2012

[quote]I thought Leigh McCloskey died of AIDS like 25 years ago.

You're probably thinking of Timothy Patrick Murphy or Dack Rambo.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 52408/07/2012

Entertainment Weekly seems to think that tomorrow's cliffhanger is even bigger than Who shot J.R. Not sure it's smart to raise expectations that high. What could be bigger than shooting J.R.? I guess I would be surprised if Barbara Carrera stepped off the plane. That would be very surprising and certainly mind boggling.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 52508/08/2012

Just read a spoiler for the finale, and it is better than I even hoped -- if it's true, of course. My jaw dropped. Can't wait!

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 52608/08/2012

Timothy and Dack is why I spent all of the '80s and beyond not having much sex.

I often wonder how many guys would have 'switched teams' or just dealt with who they were if AIDS had been primarily a heterosexual disease.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 52708/08/2012

You know.... Larry Hagman and Joan Collins were always friendly and she wanted them to do a crossover at one point. I wonder if somehow they worked that out? I can't imagine that they were able to secure the rights to the character of Alexis, though. Few other people/characters even matter other than VP/Pam.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 52808/08/2012

It would be hilarious if Collins showed up, but what I'm really hoping for is "Dynasty 2013".

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 52908/08/2012

Another spoiler/rumor I've read is that Rebecca turns out to be the daughter of J.R. and Katherine Wentworth.

Did J.R. and Katherine ever have sex on the original Dallas?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 53008/08/2012

IIRC, they did. At one point, J.R. threatened to tell Bobby about it, knowing that would ruin her chances with him.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 53108/08/2012

If Rebecca is Jr and Katherine's daughter, that's nowhere near as big as Who Shot JR.

Katherine is still alive, I forget that wiping out the "dream season" erased her death.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 53208/08/2012

R530 that wouldn't make sense because Katherine is a fugitive on the run.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 53308/08/2012

But what if Katherine is also Ann?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 53408/08/2012

Oh my god. Katherine as Anne? That'd be... something.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 53508/08/2012

Is there a statute of limitation on attempted murder? Just curious, I don't think Katherine is showing up anytime soon. They would have built up some momentum for that first.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 53608/08/2012

that was it? letdown...

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 53708/08/2012

Ok so who is she? Did he have a daughter the same age as Christopher on the original series? Who is her mother? Where is her mother?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 53808/08/2012

Presumably, her mother is Afton Cooper, unless Cliff had another daughter in the mid 1980s who the show never dealt with, which doesn't seem too likely.

Of course, none of it is too likely. So, I guess Christopher was married to his cousin? Not blood cousin (because Christopher was adopted), but still...

It's Lucy and Ray all over again.

They never resolved the storyline with the pictures of Ann with a baby (that she was being blackmailed with), so it's still possible that Ann could be her mother...

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 53908/08/2012

That was EPIC. Can't wait 'til January.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 54008/08/2012

In this interview, she says that she is Rebecca Barnes, and since Cliff and Afton's daughter was named Pamela Rebecca, looks like that's who she is.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 54108/08/2012

After all that hype, it could only be a downer. It was still decent though.

Why Cliff is still holding a grudge is beyond me though. He had Ewing Oil, he is a billionare... what is it that he needs to proof to the Ewings at this point?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 54208/08/2012

I continue to hate Elena. I hope Rebecca takes her out, Katherine Wentworth style, in season 2. She is beyond horrible.

Not a bad episode. Was it "Who shot JR?" No. But for where we're at right now, I felt it was totally appropriate and entertaining. I think they've set a strong base for next season.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 54308/08/2012

That was a good, if not somewhat predictable, twist.

[quote]Why Cliff is still holding a grudge is beyond me though. He had Ewing Oil, he is a billionare... what is it that he needs to prove to the Ewings at this point? Same reason J.R. keeps scheming? Habit plus a bit of dementia. Or maybe it has something to do with Pam's unknown fate.

And Cliff always wanted to see J.R. grovelling, which I don't think has ever happened, even when Cliff was ahead of the game. Not sure why he hates Bobby and especially why he hates the son of his beloved sister. And if he does, how he could pimp out his daughter to a Ewing.

Plot-wise, it would have been better for Ewing Energies to have more of a honeymoon period before the cousins turned on each other. And I must have missed a scene - how did John Ross find out that Elena & Christopher were back together?

So. . . now Rebecca is going to move in on the jilted John Ross, yes?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 54408/09/2012

I smell a baby-switch story. Perhaps Afton's dead baby was switched by Cliff with Ann's baby. All these years Ann has thought her baby was dead.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 54508/09/2012

Don't forget the Barnes family carry a gene that makes them causes their children to die at a young age.

Some kids are lucky, and don't die. Cliff was lucky. However if Rebecca is Cliff daughter (and she is lucky to live), and she carries the gene. Her babies are at risk.

But if there was a baby switch, that would explain why Ann's child died. Since it really was Cliff's.

Don't forget in the original Dallas, Cliff and Ann had a one-night stand.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 54608/09/2012

No, they didn't. At least not based on what happened this season. Brenda Strong said she is not playing the same character who once had a ons with Cliff. She said the producers thought about about it but then rejected that proposals because it would interfere too much with Ann's back story. I read the interview but now that the season is over I wonder... what back story? They gave us a hint and that was it. Maybe they cut some scenes to make hr Ann's baby. But how many daughters with the name Rebecca can one man possibly have?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 54708/09/2012

[quote] Brenda Strong said she is not playing the same character who once had a ons with Cliff. She said the producers thought about about it but then rejected that proposals because it would interfere too much with Ann's back story.

Link please

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 54808/09/2012

The idea of a new Pamela Barnes mixing it up with both Ewing boys could be fun. Imagine J.R.'s reaction. We need Audrey Landers back as Afton. Or Garnett McKee - anyone remember Kate Mulgew's horrible wobbling voice?

I still hoped it would have been Katherine Wentworth. Morgan Brittany needs the work; all I've seen her do in the last few years is Tea Party stuff. I loved how Morgan tried to make herself sound as if she were the star of Melrose Place and then she was the only character killed by that explosion. I think she had about 3 scenes total.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 54908/09/2012

I love that everyone remembers the show like I did. (Kudos to recalling Garnett McKee!)

That's why I really DISLIKE it when the writers throw in things that never happened e.g. Miss Ellie's breakdown after Jock died.

But I give them props for tying in Rebecca.

Strange though how Tommy's real sister was also named Rebecca.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 55008/09/2012

Here's an interview with the creator. She talks about possibly bringing back some more of the original cast and reveals the backstory of Ann's daughter (which was going to be revealed in the finale, but was cut for time):

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 55108/09/2012

For R548:

You were on the original “Dallas,” right? For just a single episode?

I was on as a guest star in one episode, I played the one-night stand of Cliff Barnes.

Did they want to acknowledge that in the new series? Would Bobby find out about your little history with Cliff?

You know I wanted to tie in that [guest appearance] with Ann somehow. I thought that would be really a clever road to the past. But there was no real ability for us to do that and as much as I lobbied for it, it didn’t really make a lot of sense. So really, very much like [my roles in] “Starship Troopers” one and two, the two characters have absolutely nothing to do with each other.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 55208/09/2012

R551, I saw nothing in your link about Ann's daughter or backstory.....

You know, I could tell from the brief snippet in the preview that it was Cliff Barnes' craggy, aged hand coming out of the airplane, but I didn't realize that that was the big surprise. I thought someone else might be inside and that that would be the shocker. It didn't help that the actor's name was listed as a special guest star and then he was nowhere in sight until the final moments of the show. So, no surprise whatsoever. I might be done with this show because it's already way too tightly woven and incestuous. There's no room for anything but more back-biting and interchanging romances. The writer was correct about the hairpin turns, even though someone here complained that it was "slow!" They cut JR, Sue Ellen and Cliff scenes out?? That's what many of us are tuning in FOR.

Elena is TERRIBLE. The actress is ghastly and she looks abominable. Freakish.

The one thing I really, really liked was the scene with Ann and her ex-husband. That was awesome.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 55308/10/2012

Not a super fan like most in this thread, but I really enjoyed it. I had no idea the ending would have that twist. I enjoyed each episode, and look forward to season two.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 55408/10/2012

In soaps things change on a dime. They could tie in Brenda Strong's appearance on Dallas.

They say the two are not connected now, but things could change.

That is soaps, never say never.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 55508/10/2012

Just FYI, they apparently ended up cutting A LOT out for time purposes -- at least 10 minutes per episode -- and it's supposed to end up on the DVD box set, coming out in December. Would be very interesting to see more about Ann's daughter and the like!

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 55608/10/2012

One of the final scenes in the episode should have been Ann standing at her daughter's grave.

Speaking of graves I really liked the Ewing family plot, enclosed by a very simple little gate.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 55708/10/2012

I liked the final two episodes much more than I thought I would.

The guy playing JR's son is finally starting to bring it, acting wise.

Jessie is cute and just there.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 55808/10/2012

Josh Henderson is improving, but ALL of the younger actors are having circles run around them in terms of talent by the older actors on the show. And not just Hagman, Gray and Duffy - Brenda Strong has been fantastic, as has Mitch Pileggi, who *really* needs to be made a series regular. I don't mind pretty actors, but I'd like to see some younger ones with gravitas next season. I like that Rebecca will, in essence, be "retooled" as a bitch with a grudge and a much nicer wardrobe (I read an interview with the executive producer saying they're switching her from twin-sets to Prada and giving her a much more modern hair-do), but how about someone who can *really* act like an asshole and provide Christopher with a formidable match for Elena's love? (well, I guess John Ross is already doing it)

Also, note to show: PLEASE give the entire cast cars with the right license plates! It's stupid for Christopher and John Ross to be the only ones with them (plus they're obvious fakes - Texas vanity plates all have white backgrounds). And please *limit* the Chevy product placement as much as possible; I can deal with John Ross in a 'Vette, but if J.R. shows up driving the new Impala or something, I may shoot myself. (And Bobby needs a new Benz; the S-class will have been redesigned by the time the new episodes air. The characters often got new cars every season on the original, so there's no reason to change that tradition!)

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 55908/10/2012

I didn' go back and read through the thread but for old ass Cliff Barnes to STILL be holding a grudge is absurd. The fact that he is trying to get to the Ewings by using his nephew (adopted or not) is beyond low.

I loathe John Ross. He thinks he's hot shit but I bet you he will get schooled again next season. He's not smart enough to take on cancer-ridden Bobby, much less Jr.

The actress that plays Elena looks terrible. Someone needs to make that girl eat some food. She use to look so pretty when she was on ATWT, but now she looks sickly. Not a good look.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 56008/10/2012

[quote]I didn' go back and read through the thread but for old ass Cliff Barnes to STILL be holding a grudge is absurd.

You're forgetting that there's 20 years of story we're almost completely unaware of. For all we know, J.R. dicked Cliff over yet again at some point during that time. Or, hell, maybe Bobby stole Ann from Cliff (even if she's not the Ann that Cliff had a one-nighter with during the original series). This would be a good story area to delve into next season, actually.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 56108/10/2012

I want Victoria Principal back!!

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 56208/10/2012

R562, I'd rather lick Joan Rivers's pussy.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 56308/10/2012

Supposedly Elena's "hot latin stud brother" will play a major role next year.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 56408/10/2012

I think the character of John Ross needs to improve. There is no reason why the

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 56508/11/2012

I really hope they explain Rebecca's scar. She's very pretty, but that scar distracts me. It's all I see when I look at her. I wonder why the actress hasn't had cosmetic surgery. That's rather unusual. Or does she have it in real life?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 56608/11/2012

I'd like it to turn out that Elena's hot brother is being kept by Vicente (Carlos Bernard).

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 56708/11/2012

Elena's thin lips bother me. Girlfriend could use some collagen to pump those suckers up.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 56808/11/2012

Still puzzled that Christopher's background check didn't reveal anything about Rebecca. In the times of internet and facebook nobody found a picture of the real Rebecca Sutter? And what about the marriage? How wouldc Rebecca's marriage With Christopher get Cliff any closer to destroy the Ewings? Even as Mrs. Ewing Rebecca wouldn't have major influence or access to the Ewing's assets. I don't get it.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 56908/11/2012

In real life, Christopher's marriage to Rebecca would be invalidated because Texas doesn't recognize marriages between first cousins (which they legally are, despite the fact that they're not biologically related).

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 57008/11/2012

Okay, after Assistant Director Skinner offered to leave Sue Ellen alone if Ann slept with him, and then she starts undressing...to reveal the wire taped to her bra, and then telling if that if he asked her for any more hugs, he'd find himself on the receiving end of her shotgun...

See, that was the character I've been hoping Ann would be.

Mad props to Brenda Strong for such good work.

And to the producers, for allowing Ann and Sue Ellen to have the maturity to be friends, instead of rivals.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 57108/11/2012

[quote]flag: [ww] [ff] [troll-dar] Still puzzled that Christopher's background check didn't reveal anything about Rebecca. In the times of internet and facebook nobody found a picture of the real Rebecca Sutter? And what about the marriage? How wouldc Rebecca's marriage With Christopher get Cliff any closer to destroy the Ewings? Even as Mrs. Ewing Rebecca wouldn't have major influence or access to the Ewing's assets.

You saw what their plan was -- she was supposed to get close enough to steal the plans for his technology. Though I don't think they needed to get married for that to happen.

Putting aside how creepy it is for Rebecca's father to pimp her out to his sister's kid.... Christopher is Cliff's nephew. Would he really never have met his uncle's daughter, or have no idea what she looked like? Yeah, Pam died or left when he was young, but Christopher was shown to know Cliff and have some kind of history with him.

I thought the reveal would have been more effective if we hadn't seen Cliff at all until that moment.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 57208/11/2012

Afton kept that kid away from Cliff for most of her life. I don't think its a stretch that Christopher and Rebecca would never have met. I have more of an issue with the fact that Cliff was always portrayed as being quite fond of his nephew on the original.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 57308/11/2012

I finally got around to reading this thread. I most say that I had no idea how much the gays loved Victoria Princpal and Pam Ewing. Wasn't Linda Evan supposed to be Pam? Anyway, this has been an enjoyable thread.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 57408/11/2012

I still think Josh Henderson and Jesse Metcalfe looked too young to be 32 years old. They both look like man-boys. And neither seem particularly tall, either.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 57508/11/2012

[quote]I still think Josh Henderson and Jesse Metcalfe looked too young to be 32 years old.

Probably because you're used to TV shows and movies routinely using 28-year-old actors to play high schoolers. They *are* in their early 30s and look it, albeit boyishly.

No, neither is that tall; I'd say they're both around 5'10", judging from their height standing next to Patrick Duffy (whom I've met and is my height).

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 57608/11/2012

Dallas Vet Audrey Landers Says "Rebecca Needs Her Mother"

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 57708/31/2012

Mitch Pileggi becomes a regular.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 57809/09/2012

I want Mitch Pileggi inside me quite deeply.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 57909/09/2012

Judith Light joins the cast -

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 58010/11/2012

bump for season 2!

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 58101/28/2013

There should be a drinking game for everytime the lame Ann cries and breaks down. She is a BORE.

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 58201/29/2013

Why was the season 2 thread deleted?

by 9PM on TNT, holla!reply 58302/14/2013
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