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Why are so many gay men single?

This city is FULL of single gay men, all ages, and very few of them seem to ever couple up long-term. They were single years ago, single today, and will be single a decade from now. They seem to be nice enough guys, OK looking, can be social in conversation. I keep wanting to match them up with each other Yenta-style, but they would either recoil with disgust or give me a confused blank look.

What's the main reason? Poll...

by Anonymousreply 60007/27/2014

All of the above apply

by Anonymousreply 105/03/2012

That's a damn good question!

by Anonymousreply 205/03/2012

OP, I have no ideas whether there are more or less single gay men in NYC now than there were years ago- and I am 58- so I've been around since the 70s. Seems to me about half those I know are coupled, half are single=- in the present and in the past. Most my age now, are coupled.

by Anonymousreply 505/03/2012

My personal feeling is that, because of the way gay men are socialized, a lot of gay guys are ultimately loners and not comfortable with intimacy.

by Anonymousreply 605/03/2012

because they want straight guys

by Anonymousreply 705/03/2012

#1 Fear of intimacy

You see to have sex with a guy is fine, but to actually do all that yucky hand holding and kissy thing...... that is soooooo faggy! Only girly men do that =)

by Anonymousreply 905/03/2012

Internal and external homophobia.

by Anonymousreply 1005/03/2012

I am a, what fellow DL'ers call, an elder gay male. I was, and still am, a fairly good looking and youthful, outgoing, friendly person. I have lived a very hedonistic life, mostly in search of sex without any long term commitments. Something changed at around age 64; I met someone much younger than I and we both fell in love. At nearly 2 years into a monagamous relationship, I now feel that my life is fulfilled. My partner tells me he feels the same about me. Love just happened.

by Anonymousreply 1205/03/2012

how about because there is no societal pressure to marry by a certain age, nor reproduce?

i have long been convinced that many straights marry because "it is time" and they are just expected to do that, whether they want to or not.

i am single because i want to live my life in a very particular way, because i like my privacy and being on my own, and because, frankly, i like to sleep around. i have many friends and a wonderful family, and i don't feel lonely. i see neither a need nor a desire for "the one".

by Anonymousreply 1305/03/2012

More like the societal pressure to not be gay, R13. Relationships are "gay".

That's it. It's internalized/externalized homophobia.

I'm reading these responses and they all echo that in some fashion. I'd rather be single, it's a hassle, why? Because people go "eww".

by Anonymousreply 1505/03/2012

The "sleeping around" is also a sign that gay men don't like themselves very much.

If you don't love yourself, how the hell you gonna love somebody else?

Can I get an amen up in here?

by Anonymousreply 1705/03/2012

They set their standards too high. They do not accept flaws, which we all have. They don't get past the superficial.

by Anonymousreply 1805/03/2012

Because it is just too easy to go around the corner and find someone else. Relationships = work, and if you are not willing to compromise, share, support and be supported, it will not work in the long term.

Now, on the other side of the coin, I have a ton of friends that are coupled (as I am), and all of them are having kids!

While I'm sure that bringing a life into this world can be very fulfilling, I don't understand why everyone is doing it. Heck, I'm gay, and I love not having to bend to societal norms.

by Anonymousreply 1905/03/2012

Which city? If it's New York, well there's your answer. Nobody there has an attention span long enough to commit to anything.

by Anonymousreply 2005/03/2012

The more acceptance that happens to gay men, the more likely they will have relationships.

Legalizing gay marriage is a start.

by Anonymousreply 2105/03/2012

"The 'sleeping around' is also a sign that gay men don't like themselves very much."

Wrong. It's actually a sign that they are just men. If straight women were as hard-wired for sex as guys are you would see a helluva lot more messy, wanton behavior in that realm as well.

by Anonymousreply 2205/03/2012

Too busy trolling Craigslist for "str8/bi/married. "

by Anonymousreply 2305/03/2012

Why does everyone on here see things as black and white?

There are many reasons gay men are single. Some PREFER to be single, some are always looking for a better option, some are self-loathing, some are more focused on other things. Considering you're all gay, I'm not sure why you like to stereotype everyone into one label.

"Wrong. It's actually a sign that they are just men. If straight women were as hard-wired for sex as guys are you would see a helluva lot more messy, wanton behavior in that realm as well."

No, you're wrong! Many gay men sleep around because they don't like themselves and they find validation by sleeping around. Not all, some are just horny, but some are messed up.

by Anonymousreply 2405/03/2012

r25, I think that's an excuse. Yes, there are many who are in relationships just because they're insecure and would settle for anything, but if you found the "perfect" person who gets you, would you really choose to be single?

IMO, everyone wants to be in a great relationship. "Great" relationships only occur to a lucky few though and most people in relationships are doomed.

I would never settle, and would rather be single than coupled up and miserable, but if the right guy came along....

by Anonymousreply 2705/03/2012

Pleated pants

by Anonymousreply 3005/03/2012

Because so many are emotionally stunted and do not have the capacity to LOVE someone else.

The word love has not been used once in this thread.

Without love it's just these strained "partnerships" that are mostly about the status of being "couple" and financial issues. These usually devolve into "open relationships" until the split.

by Anonymousreply 3105/03/2012

Most of us were damaged growing up. Makes trust more difficult.

by Anonymousreply 3205/03/2012

ha, love R26... let's face it, that is responsible for 98% of the straight relationships out there.

For me, I decided long ago that I make a truly great friend and a truly lousy boyfriend. The notion of taking on someone else's shit full time has no appeal to me (having made that mistake a couple of times) -- and, sorry, that's what it is, not "sharing my life" as the silly fraus say.

And it just never was a big priority: twenty years ago and today, the answer remains the same. If you give me the choice between the "love of my life" and a three picture deal at Paramount, I'm taking the Paramount deal. 'Cause I really want that (and don't tell me it goes away... so does the dude. Ask any and every relationship I know, gay and straight).

Do wish I could find some other equally self-sufficient guy with the same attitude -- but never works out that way. I always get the dull ones that only want to talk about the Relationship, move in after a week, call me with nothing to say and no questions to ask... I always wanted a boyfriend that's as interesting as my friends but no go.

by Anonymousreply 3305/03/2012

R31, what a bitch. I used love in my post.

by Anonymousreply 3405/04/2012

5's want to date 8's 8's want to date 10's 10's only want to date 12's

and they are all bottoms looking for strict tops with 12 inches or more.

by Anonymousreply 3505/04/2012

Well, let me speak for myself...

I'm 55, not bad looking, but I definitely look my age. I'm ONLY attracted to people in their early 20s, who are unlikely to be attracted to me. I've priced myself out of the market...

So I have a lot of close non-sexual relationships, watch a lot of internet porn, and hire an escort every couple of months.

You can't force yourself to be attracted to people your own age.

by Anonymousreply 3605/04/2012

[quote]I've priced myself out of the market...

Uh, more like you're old stock.

by Anonymousreply 3805/04/2012

They are sluts.

by Anonymousreply 3905/04/2012

Most men just want sex without hassles not love. It's all about what the body parts look like and what you do with them.

by Anonymousreply 4105/04/2012

Gay is a sexual orientation, not an emotional entrapment. It just determines what gender you sleep with. There's nothing about it that says you have to get stuck with one person.

by Anonymousreply 4205/04/2012

People like OP are disturbed.

You left out more relevant choices like

* it's none of my business, why do I have a pathological interest in other people not being single?

and

* I really know nothing about these guys' lives other than my perception that they're single.

Straight people - usually coupled, tedious, and deluded coupled people - think like OP when they're actually deeply unhappy and unsatisfied with their relationships but pathologically afraid of loneliness so they obsess over other people being single because they can't stand that they're free.

As someone who had what I thought what was a great relationship for 16 years, I had too much going on in my relationship to make judgments about single people. Now that I'm single again, I love it.

by Anonymousreply 4305/04/2012

The #1 answer is that most gay men don't want to be "wife" in a relationship. Men, in general, don't like to be dominated.

by Anonymousreply 4505/04/2012

And what constitutes being a 'wife' in a gay relationship if I may ask?

by Anonymousreply 4605/04/2012

Being a bottom.

by Anonymousreply 4705/04/2012

I don't believe the human race are meant to be monogamous - that's forced upon us by religion. I honestly believe that monogamy is against human nature.

Unlike most heterosexuals, most homosexuals (F/M) do not feel the need to have offsprings and therefore are not forced to stay with one partner for the sake of the kids or appearance.

by Anonymousreply 4805/04/2012

I think men weren't meant to be monogamous, R48. Why do you think straight and gay male porn is so popular?

by Anonymousreply 4905/04/2012

R48, I'm not sure lesbians feel the same way about this as gay men do. Or do they? I think monogamy is more of a female thing in general, across the board, and if straight men could have their way the way gay men do, there would be a lot more "open" straight relationships.

by Anonymousreply 5005/04/2012

So many good reasons already mentioned. Why am I single? I live with my cat at my side. I have really disgusting habits when I'm at home (even my cat looks at me disgustingly sometimes like he's saying "If I wouldn't need you to open the cans of cat food for me I'd smother you to death while you're asleep. You, sir are a vile disgusting pig!").

In my family's past my grandmother and my mother were in abusive relationships where their husbands beat them (and me sometimes). Even nowdays I see relationships as entrapments where you are someone's personal punching bag. That's not a healthy basis to start a relationship with someone. And yet I am not willing to change that belief. But I have somehow the belief (or delusion?) that I will change instantly when the 'right man' comes along.

I love being alone and to be the only one using the kitchen, the toilet, or the media gadgets (TV, PC, etc.) and not having to defend the choices I made throughout the day.

by Anonymousreply 5105/04/2012

r37's comment reminded me of an article saying that priests go after teen age boys because they didn't have sex at that age and can't relate to adults sexually.

by Anonymousreply 5205/04/2012

r37 is full of shit, because no way does the AVERAGE American, gay or straight, start having sex at age 12 (outside of pedophile fantasies, that is).

And no way does getting an early start on sexual activitiy correlate with a propensity for longer-term later relationships. More like the opposite holds true.

Or was your post intended as an absurdist interjection into an already absurd debate?

The reason so many gay men are single is pretty simple, and it's already been posted. It's the same reason gay men engage in far more drive-by/ glory-hole/ one-night-stand sex than straight men: men like no-strings attached sex; women prefer sex within some type of relationship. Since gay men are dealing with other men and straight men are dealing with women, obviously more straight men are going to be in LTRs. The social support/preference for straight marriages is a subsidiary factor in this situation.

Oh, and r52, I believe that with priests it's the other way around: they became priests in the first place because they were totally unattracted to women, but very attracted to altar boys.

by Anonymousreply 5305/04/2012

[quote]The average American gay person has sex for the first time at age 15 compared to heterosexauls at age 12.

Link please.

by Anonymousreply 5405/04/2012

R48 [quote] I don't believe the human race are meant to be monogamous

me second :p

by Anonymousreply 5505/04/2012

Since monogamy is such a hefty burden:

[quote]rates of HIV infection among gay men and other men who have sex with men (MSM) are more than 44 times higher than rates among heterosexual men and more than 40 times higher than women. Rates of syphilis, an STD that can facilitate HIV infection and, if left untreated, may lead to sight loss and severe damage to the nervous system, are reported to be more than 46 times higher among gay men and other MSM than among heterosexual men and more than 71 times higher than among women.

Loveliness

by Anonymousreply 5705/04/2012

Magical thinking.

Most of us, by definition, are average. On a scale of 1-10, the average is probably a 6 to a 7.

Well everyone wants to go up at least a level. So a 6 thinks he can get a 7 or an 8. Sometimes a 6 shoots for a 9 or a 10.

9s just want 10s, and 10s are few in number and often end up in mutually destructive relationships with other 10s which result in explosions caused by narcissism.

I am exaggerating, of course, but most guys really do engage in a form of this thinking when imagining their potential mate, whether in terms of looks, intelligence, income, etc.

There is a belief that there is always something better out there.

Even in long-term relationships, you often see one of the partners take off for someone "better" only to break up with them later on and see that their own (now shattered) relationship was pretty good after all.

We just aim too high because that's the message we get from lots of sources.

And too much porn which can dull us to the plain guy with the six-inch dick who might not be the greatest fuck but is the sweetest guy in the world.

So there, I said it.

by Anonymousreply 5805/04/2012

I believe that women are more cut out for serial monogamy than men are, but neither sex is cut out for lifelong monogamy. Of course, in each gender, there are always exceptions to every rule.

by Anonymousreply 6005/04/2012

A large percentage of gay men are celibate or trying to be for a host of reasons, including fear of STDs. A huge percentage are celibate or not involved with males because of religious reasons, or fear of social disapproval.

by Anonymousreply 6205/04/2012

Also, while lesbians are seen as somewhat natural become women like to bond and form intimate relationships, society in no way supports non-family men bonding together in an intimate way for the longterm. To many, including gays, it doesn't feel natural. I have talked to bi and gay guys who just don't feel at ease being committed to a dude, so obviously they are unlikely to have real relationships with the same sex.

by Anonymousreply 6305/04/2012

Wow 51 is a cry for help.

Sweetums, cats do not feel shame and disgust the way humans do. The cat does not want to kill you because you are too big to eat. You'd spoil first.

by Anonymousreply 6405/04/2012

R62 BULLSHIT.

by Anonymousreply 6505/04/2012

And R64 is a cry to be beaten to death with the stupid stick.

by Anonymousreply 6605/04/2012

What a depressing thread.

by Anonymousreply 6705/04/2012

R51 you really need mental health help. While you may or may not decide to have a relationship you have issues to deal with.

The stupid stick should be reserved for R66.

by Anonymousreply 6805/04/2012

R28 is on to something when he points out that gay relationships can be really competitive in a way that straight ones are not. I've seen a long of chafing and competition in gay relationships -- not least about who can attract more partners.

The person who criticized OP for asking the question and told him to mind his own business seems grouchy and defensive. I think this thread is very interesting.

by Anonymousreply 6905/04/2012

I think it's a smaller market for gay men, so there's less to choose from to begin with.

There is no examples set for gay men like for straight men who observe or are told to have sex with large variety and then settle down , get married and have kids. Straight men have a blue print on what's expected. Gay men are on the fly.

Gay men are told they're sluts or damaged anyway so many who actually want monogamy have it in their heads that it's some impossible thing to get. The ones who don't want multiple partners are put down as losers.

Gay men have no one to nag them to stop looking at endless porn, so they end up getting very unrealistic ideas on what a partner should look like or act like. No man is good enough for them and measure up to their unrealistic ideals.

Gay men are encouraged to live shallow lives. There's no societal pressure to behave any differently. In fact, society actively discourage them to have committed relationships (saying no to gay marriage or civil unions) or have kids (denying gay adoption)

In the long run, gay men end up being very lonely by the end of their lives, forced to live in nursing homes which can be anti gay, because they chose to party and not have a partner who'd be willing to settle down with them through sickness, illness and old age.

by Anonymousreply 7005/04/2012

r70, that's a pretty harsh assessment, but i tend to agree.

Also unfortunately a lot of gay men don't honor the relationships that other guys are in. There seems to be an assumption that because you're gay you'll fuck around on the sly even if you say you're monogamous.

by Anonymousreply 7105/04/2012

Sad!!

by Anonymousreply 7205/04/2012

Why are gay me single?

by Anonymousreply 7305/04/2012

I know very few people, gay or straight who are in a relationship that doesn't look hellish. Some seem to enjoy their lives of quiet desperation, but I prefer my solitude at home and lots of loving friends when I care to go out.

And as for gay men ending up alone in nursing homes, I'm thinking you've never been to a nursing home. They are full of heterosexual parents who were dumped there by their children. Old age is no more lonely for gays than straights - I work with the aged.

by Anonymousreply 7405/04/2012

r74 has Aspergers

by Anonymousreply 7505/04/2012

17 year relationship here - not open, never has been. Everyone is different, of course. Happy, healthy and in love - Why can't we just accept people as the are, without classifications, without judgment, without condemnation. People who want to be in relationships are, people who don't aren't. That is the way is should be, for all people.

by Anonymousreply 7605/04/2012

[quote]Gay men are encouraged to live shallow lives.

What are you talking about?

by Anonymousreply 7805/04/2012

Media definitely encourages the 'slutty gay man' type in advertising, especially in hiv prevention advertising! You see it at all events, it's like a wink to 'living for the moment' etc. Which goes in line with spending habits as well as sex. Music...etc

by Anonymousreply 7905/05/2012

gay men despise themselves

by Anonymousreply 8005/05/2012

I have no interest in heteronormative coupling.

by Anonymousreply 8105/05/2012

Because humans are not naturally monogamous.

by Anonymousreply 8205/05/2012

Because they fear death!

by Anonymousreply 8305/05/2012

cuz gay men are always looking for something BETTER.

by Anonymousreply 8405/05/2012

R84, did you find it?

by Anonymousreply 8505/05/2012

Good one R83

by Anonymousreply 8605/05/2012

yes i did r85. thanks.

by Anonymousreply 8705/05/2012

I can be a bit of a slut depending on the time of year, but I have found over the years that I like sort of building up friendships with the men I sleep with. Instead of one focused boyfriend, at this point in my life I like the safety net of tender friendships with fuckbuddies.

by Anonymousreply 8805/05/2012

OP, it's a matter of perception. I'm in a long term relationship, as are most of my gay friends. I do know a few perpetually single gay men, but they're more the exception than the rule.

by Anonymousreply 8905/05/2012

Most rich gay men stay single because they don't want to share their money.

by Anonymousreply 9005/05/2012

I also think gay guys are more selective today than in the past. Some gay guys are so narrow in what they expect that they effectively have no chance of finding a match. I know of guys that will never date a guy who identifies openly as gay; others say a guy has to be in the military; others say the guy has to be a black bisexual guy over six feet. I know a guy who says he is not attracted to any guy that likes music by female artists. Others only want muscular Arab guys who play lacrosse. The pickiness is so extreme and widespread that it is a wonder any guys partner with each other.

by Anonymousreply 9105/05/2012

I wish I could be one of those rich men r90!

by Anonymousreply 9205/05/2012

I agree with you, R91. I keep hearing that the dick wants what the dick wants, but I wonder if that isn't an excuse for not seeking a partner.

by Anonymousreply 9305/05/2012

I shall bookmark this thread and trot it out whenever someone wonders why the endgame for bi guys is almost always women - it will be a valuable resource.

by Anonymousreply 9405/05/2012

R90 = golddigger who's still waiting for a rich Mr. Perfect to show up out of nowhere.

by Anonymousreply 9505/05/2012

Many of the factors in this thread apply to straight men as well, and I question the assumption that straight = monogamous; gay = can't commit.

Why is the straight divorce rate something like 50% in this country? Why do so many straight men cheat on their wives (with hookers, in affairs, one night stands, whatever), whether that cheating ends up in divorce or not? Even if they don't cheat, they look at just as much (if not more) porn and set unrealistic ideals about potential mates as gay men supposedly do - you should hear straight men talking about the women they'd like to bang, how models are too thin / too fat, have no ass, etc. This applies whether they're married or not, but for some reason a straight man fantasizing about another woman (a hot co-worker, a friend, the babysitter) is considered the norm, but in gay men it demonstrates that they're shallow and "always looking for something better"?

In the end I agree that the major factor separating straight men and gay men is not their "nature" or their psychology, but the societal institutions and expectations that support and "constrain" them. Marriage is not only an ideal of monogamy, but a financial and legal restriction on mobility. Straight men don't stray (or try as hard as they can to hide the fact that they're straying) because they face a shitload of consequences if they do.

But, I also believe there are truly monogamous and loving straight men out there, just as I believe the same of gay men. And the more societal and institutional support there is for gay men to build monogamous relationships if they want to (and it's fine if others don't want to), the easier it will be for these truly monogamous and loving gay men to find one another and build lives together.

by Anonymousreply 9605/05/2012

When the old homos were very young they were in the closet and didn't date, instead using porn, they eventually fixated on one of a variety of "perfect" types. There was a book that described a gay bar as "a party for royalty that never comes"....every time the door opens everyone turns around...to disappointment. Thank goodness today's young people are out early, and dating....most that I know want monogamous relationships. Perhaps they won't suffer the same fate as you people.

by Anonymousreply 9705/05/2012

I like that gay bar description, R97. I also liked a description from another DL poster: "a room full of men ready to hate you for wanting them."

Bitchiness / bitterness aside, I'd like to revise my post at R96. In the end, I don't think monogamy is something in "nature", and you either have it or you don't - it's a choice. All men (and women), gay and straight, face temptation every day. There are always going to be objectively better looking, more intelligent, more sexy, more fun people out there than the person you're with, and it's natural and probably normal to fantasize about being with someone else.

But you make a choice to stick with the person you're with in exchange for their sticking with you. You give your word, something not to be given lightly, to focus your attention and your world on that one person so you can hopefully build something greater than the sum of you.

Maybe it's easier for some men and women to keep their word than others (just as some people have a harder time keeping promises and trust generally), but that choice and temptation is there for everyone, and the more that society supports and encourages gay men to make that choice, the greater chance of success they'll have in staying in monogamous relationships.

by Anonymousreply 9805/05/2012

OP, I'm a single gay male, and it seems like almost every gay guy I know is in a relationship. The vast majority for sure.

by Anonymousreply 9905/05/2012

Where do you live r99?

by Anonymousreply 10005/05/2012

First steps to what R101? Marriage? It doesn't exist for most of us.

by Anonymousreply 10205/05/2012

"Internalized Homophobia and Relationship Quality among Lesbians, Gay Men, and Bisexuals"

Research suggests that internalized homophobia also affects gay and bisexual men’s experience of sexual intimacy. Higher levels of internalized homophobia are associated with greater sexual depression, sexual anxiety, sexual image concern, and fear of sexuality as well as lower levels of sexual esteem and sexual satisfaction and are predictive of sexual problems among gay and bisexual men (Dupras, 1994; Meyer, 1995).

by Anonymousreply 10305/05/2012

That is why I don't understand the obsession over gay marriage, gay men will not get married

by Anonymousreply 10405/05/2012

R100, I live in Austin... the city of singles, and "one of the best cities to be single". Yet almmost every gay man I know is coupled. Of course, I'm in my 40's and so are most of the gay men I know (late 30's to 60's).

I have a handful of single gay male friends... we hang out more because we're single, than because we're actually friends in real life.

But whatever.

by Anonymousreply 10505/05/2012

Some prefer to be single. Some think they want a relationship but really prefer to be single. Some are looking for something that isn't out there. Others find what they are looking for - or think they have - only to find someone who either doesn't want a relationship or only thinks he does (and he can only delude himself for about two months tops).

by Anonymousreply 10605/05/2012

[quote]There are always going to be objectively better looking, more intelligent, more sexy, more fun people out there than the person you're with

That isn't why people cheat and/or can't commit to one person. They don't want better, they want DIFFERENT. People get bored with the same old thing. I love steak, but I don't want to eat it every day for the rest of my life.

Like the old saying goes, "even the most gorgeous person in the world has someone at home who's sick of fucking them."

Something that I haven't seen mentioned here yet is that all humans (gay, straight, male, female) enjoy the hunt--the challenge of seduction. It's intoxicating and can be addictive.

by Anonymousreply 10705/05/2012

Most gay men seem to subscribe to the belief that the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence, mostly in terms of looks. I find gay men tend to base their ability to have relationship with a guy based first on physical attraction. Not that physical attraction isn't important, but there's also the fact that many gay men tend to overestimate their league.

by Anonymousreply 10805/05/2012

I do not enjoy the hunt. At all. I hate dating. I hate the unsureness, the "does he or doesn't he", the "will he or won't he" crap. I hate the insecurity of it all. I *hate* Dating with a passion.

I cannot fathom how anyone can enjoy that nightmare.

by Anonymousreply 10905/05/2012

For me, it's very simple.

Imagine a venn diagram where one circle is "Every guy I'm even remotely attracted to on any level at all". The other circle is "Every guy who is even remotely attracted to me on any level at all".

The two circles simply do not intersect. At all.

So I'm single.

by Anonymousreply 11005/05/2012

Sure, all humans enjoy the hunt - gay men by a factor of about 30 to one compared to everyone else.

One poster had a good point. If women let men pick them up in streets, parks and restrooms after making eye contact, hetero social life would be a lot different.

Of course know that many gay men don't do this, but they certainly do it more than straight men and women.

by Anonymousreply 11105/05/2012

gay men are still very promiscuous

by Anonymousreply 11205/05/2012

[quote]Sure, all humans enjoy the hunt - gay men by a factor of about 30 to one compared to everyone else.

R109 would disagree with you and contradict this statement rather strongly.

by Anonymousreply 11305/05/2012

Not saying there are not exceptions, but come on -- gay men do get around more than other groups, for better or worse.

Oh, and the exceptional guy said he hated "dating," which is different than "hooking up."

by Anonymousreply 11405/05/2012

Because most gay men in the US are shallow users who only want to get their rocks off but refuse to give of themselves in any way.

Whether it's due to internalized homophobia or just general sociopathy, my experience has been that most gays in the US are manipulative and untrustworthy.

I've found the gay men in other countries - Canada, parts of Western Europe where I've lived and travelled - to be much better people.

Of course, Americans in general are horrible people, so it may just be the culture.

by Anonymousreply 11505/05/2012

R115, that's because of years of hate homophobia directed at gay men. You can't expect years and years of oppression to create an adjusted, emotionally stable group.

by Anonymousreply 11605/05/2012

Yeah, and thank you for the crude America-bashing apropos of nothing, r115. If you have ever spent any time on DL, you know that this place is highly critical of America, so no need to slip in cheap shots.

by Anonymousreply 11705/05/2012

To add to R116's point, straight men are at the top of the sexual pyramid and our culture gives them carte blanche to be as selfish and manipulative as they'd like to be in their pursuit of sexual partners (provided at some point in their lives, they toe the line and produce legitimate offspring -- and all you have to do is look at the American underclass to see just how sexually indiscriminate and irresponsible straight men act when they aren't pressured to do right by some woman and take care of their children.)

It's only women and gay men who ever seem to get called on the carpet about this shit, and I'd wager the vast majority of the sexual dysfunction we as groups exhibit is as a reaction to the horseshit that gets dumped on us by straight male culture.

by Anonymousreply 11805/05/2012

[quote] The two circles simply do not intersect. At all.

Perhaps it is time for us all to widen our circles.

by Anonymousreply 11905/05/2012

R119, my circle is pretty wide. If you've seen any of the people I've ever dated, you would have no recourse but to admit that perhaps my circle is a bit TOO wide.

Still doesn't change the fact that the circles don't intersect. Or if they do, the set of people in the intersection is vanishingly small, such that the chance of me ever meeting them is remote at best.

I've pretty much accepted this at this point.

by Anonymousreply 12005/05/2012

[quote]Like the old saying goes, "even the most gorgeous person in the world has someone at home who's sick of fucking them."

Ha. Never heard that one before. Love it.

I'm promiscuous because I love the challenge and excitement of hunting for different hot, white, hung, masculine guys to get off with.

I recently found someone I wanted to be in a relationship with. Supposedly he wasn't even hung (we never got that far). I wouldn't have cared. I was under his spell and would have absolutely committed to him, whatever that means. He fled, though, so it's a moot point.

by Anonymousreply 12105/05/2012

I am 47 and single and unfortunately unemployed, so in NY I am single not by choice but due to my situation.

That being said, even when I worked I found most men within my age range to be aging not all that well - I mean getting older does not mean one has to look like shit, dress badly and not shave - look at Anderson Cooper or porn star Arpad Miklos, or Michael Lucas, all older men who take care of themselves and look great.

by Anonymousreply 12205/05/2012

I agree with your posts, r96/r98.

by Anonymousreply 12305/05/2012

R13 gets it right. Societal pressure is major

by Anonymousreply 12405/05/2012

Agree with r118.

by Anonymousreply 12505/05/2012

Bullshit on the "Canada is better" crap. It's just a different experience for you because you were on vacation. Everyone has a better time on vacation because they're willing to experiment and be more outgoing. Vancouver at least is a pretty fucking horrible place to be single gay man.

by Anonymousreply 12605/05/2012

um, r126 - I've lived in Canada. The men (the people in general, in fact) are of far better quality than they are in the US.

I can't speak specifically to Vancouver because I've never been there, but I can definitely state that I know very high-quality gay men in Ontario and Quebec, many of whom have been in relationships for years and some of whom are raising children in those relationships.

I know all of one guy - single - in the US who's raising a kid, and he's a middle-aged Orthodox Jewish club gay who adopted a child from Africa.

So yeah, I'm sticking with my comment that Canadian guys (and others) are better catches than Americans.

by Anonymousreply 12705/05/2012

[quote]I know very high-quality gay men

Someone needs to unclench and let the baseball bat slide out of her ass.

by Anonymousreply 12805/05/2012

Gay Marriage is also legal in Canada. Raising kids without the rights of marriage is not just complicated but very VERY difficult.

Few people, even in Canada, would be up for doing it.

by Anonymousreply 12905/05/2012

so, you're a racist, r121. interesting revelation, dude....

by Anonymousreply 13005/06/2012

No, r130. Preferring a white partner for sex doesn't make you a racist any more than preferring a man for sex makes you a misogynist.

by Anonymousreply 13105/06/2012

That misogynist comparison doesn't fly because you're born with an innate preference for men. You weren't born with in innate racial preference. That's learned.

by Anonymousreply 13205/06/2012

Yes, that is learned. It was reinforced by your environment and society so you shun femme men.

by Anonymousreply 13405/06/2012

Oh, gimme a break! So every preference we have should be unlearned so we can all be attracted to everything? That makes absolutely zero sense.

by Anonymousreply 13505/06/2012

[quote]They set their standards too high. They do not accept flaws, which we all have. They don't get past the superficial.

I read this sentence and immediately thought about my best friend. He's a real sweetheart of a guy but he's only interested in muscle guys with perfect bodies. To him anything less is a complete turn-off and automatic rejection. So be it.

What makes it so frustrating for me is the fact that I, against my better judgment, have feelings for him. And being so tired of the gay dating scene myself (I'm 47), I can't help looking at him and lamenting the fact he's so unwilling to give us a chance to be something more than just friends (non-sexual friends at that; we've known each other for almost a year now and have never had sexual relations and I doubt ever will have). The problem, as stated before, is that I'm not "perfect" enough for him -- I'm a nice-looking guy but only have an average build (a little belly on me), but do go to the gym 3 times a week, walk a lot, and keep myself in fairly decent shape for a guy my age. Okay, fine, but what never ceases to amaze me is the fact my friend isn't perfect either -- he has a belly, too (a small one but it's there) and a receding hairline (he got hair plugs years ago) but none of that has ever mattered to me; I actually think his flaws make him adorable, but though I'm willing to overlook his imperfections, he's never been even slightly willing to overlook mine, so it's still a no go. And it's a shame because other than that, we have such a great relationship -- we "get" each other as the expression goes, have so much fun together (including traveling together), and basically want the same things in life, but will never be able to kick it up a notch to the next level and pursue them as a couple. I would obviously but he refuses to even consider it (I asked him once about us "going on a date" and he got really mad at me, so I've never mentioned it again). He'd rather spend all of his time chasing after younger guys (he's 41), some of whom fuck him and then never call him again, after which he bitches and moans to me about how he "can never meet anyone who will love me" while looking past the person in the room who already does.

I do date lots of other guys (no wallflower here, trust me) and my friend was very supportive of me a couple of weeks ago when I lost my mother, so I do intend to keep him around. But as I said it's frustrating, chiefly because he and I could both be off the dating market with each other instead of still waiting and hoping for someone new and wonderful to come along who may never show up.

by Anonymousreply 13605/06/2012

Sorry for the long post. I miss the days when we could preview them first!

by Anonymousreply 13705/06/2012

I am 51 and now single because my partner just died. I have no desire for a relationship right now. Perhaps in the future.

by Anonymousreply 13805/06/2012

[quote]Oh, and the exceptional guy said he hated "dating," which is different than "hooking up."

I hate both.

by Anonymousreply 13905/06/2012

r136 sounds like you should stop focusing on your friend and maybe look for someone else.

Cool it with him for a while. maybe that will make him miss you and rethink things.

by Anonymousreply 14005/06/2012

It just turns out that people who say they are attracted to only one race tend to display racist sentiments and tendencies in other areas. It's not credible to claim that your physical attractions are the only area in which you practice racial discrimination.

by Anonymousreply 14105/06/2012

I'm a lesbian and sometimes I wish this were the case in the lesbian community as opposed to all the U-Hauling that happens.

by Anonymousreply 14205/06/2012

[quote] It's not credible to claim that your physical attractions are the only area in which you practice racial discrimination.

Bullshit. This sounds like what every black man says when he wants to nail a white guy/girl. Am I racist because I prefer blonds with blue eyes? Because my second choice is everyone else, regardless of race. It isn't discrimination to prefer a redhead over a blond or green eyes over blue so why is it racist to prefer light skin over dark?

by Anonymousreply 14305/06/2012

"Bullshit. This sounds like what every black man says when he wants to nail a white guy/girl."

Uh, no, but it sounds like you have a white superiority complex nonetheless. You are not the center of the universe nor THE standard of beauty or desire.

by Anonymousreply 14405/06/2012

R144..rather than insult the poster tell him why you feel he is wrong, if in fact he is wrong.

by Anonymousreply 14505/06/2012

Showerless weekends = single forever.

by Anonymousreply 14605/06/2012

Er, racial preference derail aside (we've had huge threads about that subject before), I like the point someone made earlier about how minorities like gay men and women are criticized for the same behavior exhibited by the straight male majority because of their power and position in society.

Question: what do you call a person who is attracted to, likes to flirt with, and/or have sex with different people and isn't committed to one person?

Women: "Slut", "whore", "promiscuous", "trash"

Gay Men: "Slut", "shallow", "emotionally damaged", "always looking for the next best thing", "sets too high standards"

Straight Men: "Player", "Stud", "just being a man", "red-blooded"

by Anonymousreply 14705/06/2012

Sorry for your loss, R138. That is a huge reason a lot of us are single, especially that age or just older (even if AIDS is not how you lost your partner). We lose the love of our lives or even our best friend and it changes us. For a time or forever. Perfectly normal and just life so don't listen to anyone who tries to tell you to get out there again or whatever.

As for sexual preference, I for one must say my sexual ideal -- blonde hair, small nose, big mouth -- is based on the first guy I ever had a crush on/fell in love with. I didn't stay locked to that but he will always be the ideal, even 30 years later. :)

by Anonymousreply 14805/06/2012

You must love trouty-mouth, R148

by Anonymousreply 14905/06/2012

Gay men are damaged goods, thanks to the repressive society we were brought up in. Society creates violence and hate in the name of religion.

by Anonymousreply 15005/06/2012

[quote]look at Anderson Cooper or porn star Arpad Miklos, or Michael Lucas, all older men who take care of themselves and look great

Wow, R122. While I agree that men over 40 should make an effort to look good, your named role models are 1) a closeted celebrity newsreader and 2) aging porn stars/escorts.

I'd suggest there are a lot of other reasons you're still single.

by Anonymousreply 15105/06/2012

ha, is Trouty-Mouth that Chord Overstreet guy on "Glee"? Yeah, pretty much my idea of physical perfection. Ditto model/actor Boyd Holbrook.

by Anonymousreply 15205/06/2012

r150, move to France@!!! your kind of country!!! lol

by Anonymousreply 15305/06/2012

I'm single because all I meet are guys that want to fuck me with no strings attached. I don't know how to find someone who wants a relationship.

by Anonymousreply 15405/06/2012

I did meet a guy once who was just perfect for me. He was smart, tall, muscular, nice furry chest and legs, big dick, funny and had a great job.

But his grammar was atrocious. He once sent me a love note in which he expressed his satisfaction with our romance penning "its beautiful" in truly awful penmanship.

A paragraph later he said that he wanted to "to happily share our lives together" and that really did it for me.

A split infinitive.

I couldn't. I just couldn't. So I took a red marker and corrected those and four others errors. I sent the note back with a lovely note which read: "I am so sorry. This is not working for me. I will miss you."

He ended up with someone who does internet/computer things and lives in a ghastly townhouse in the West Village when he's not at their farm or in their flat on the rue Jacob in the 6e.

He probably calls it "there" flat.

Loser.

by Anonymousreply 15505/07/2012

I'd W&W R155, but that's too long for the side-bar.

Still... bravo.

by Anonymousreply 15605/07/2012

Because this society, my family included, looks down on us... it's easier to be single than to be seen as a gay guy. We're hated more than black people and mexicans combined... but when we're single, we're treated, for the most part like any other white person, we can escape from that oppression and hatred... but it comes at a high price... of being alone.

by Anonymousreply 15705/13/2012

[quote]17 year relationship here - not open, never has been.

Sure I believe you. Not. I tricked with a guy last year who was in a LTR, however his bf didn't want sex as much as he did, so he turned to Craigslist.

I'll never buy your claim that you don't have an open relationship. Maybe that's what you think, but your hubby is whoring around.

by Anonymousreply 15805/13/2012

I don't think being single is the major problem for gay men. I think it is the fear that deep inside they feel that really connecting with another gay man is impossible. We have no real role models. And for most of us real connections were broken the minute we knew we were gay. That knowledge cut us off from feeling safe and connected. That is one reason we are attracted to straight men. We think they are strong and that the right one will protect us and keep us safe.

One can only really connect with another person when he feels safe inside and out. I think that being a gay person in this country is a hard lot. Americans are natural bigots, and bigotry is stressful. It is a brave man who can walk around all day feeling comfortable in his own skin. Maybe we wouldn't be single if we felt equal to our straight kin. Really equal. If we don't demand it from ourselves we can't ask others to do it for us. Or expect them to save us.

by Anonymousreply 15905/13/2012

[quote]That is one reason we are attracted to straight men. We think they are strong and that the right one will protect us and keep us safe.

Where did you come up with that horseshit? I have never felt like I needed a straight many to "protect" me and keep me "safe".

by Anonymousreply 16005/13/2012

R160 I didn't say everyone. But your reaction makes me think I hit a nerve.

by Anonymousreply 16105/13/2012

They don't have stable jobs. No stable job, no honey.

by Anonymousreply 16305/14/2012

R161.. way too much pop psych, hon. Maybe what you said make r160 react because it's absurd. Straight men protecting us and keeping us safe? That's like a cliche about what some straight women are looking for. Unless you're talking about fathers but that's another story.

by Anonymousreply 16405/14/2012

Because gay men don't need to use the boring, obsolete institution of marriage to be happy.

Women are the ones who seek out marriage, children, monogamy, etc. If straight men could have it their way, I think they'd live a more gay male like bachelor lifestyle.

by Anonymousreply 16505/14/2012

Straight men *have* had it their way and they're the ones who came up with marriage. Many of them may not like being beholden to the constraints of monogamy themselves but they certainly expect it and demand it from their women.

by Anonymousreply 16605/14/2012

There are a lot of single straights, too. Is the percentage of single gay men higher than straights?

by Anonymousreply 16705/14/2012

"Because gay men don't need to use the boring, obsolete institution of marriage to be happy."

Every study that comes out have shown that not only are men happier in marriage (much happier than women) they're also healthier as well. So quit using that as an excuse to continue to be a whore with your phoney baloney ideas on monogamy and children & women.

When they try living your so called bachelor lifestyle it all turns to crap for them, that's why you'll notice that when they get out of one relationship they quickly try to get into another. They voluntary choose to commit because that's also in man's nature.

by Anonymousreply 16805/14/2012

Here are some of those results: "Married patients receive treatment for cancer in higher proportions and they show greater survival rates after therapy than unmarried individuals.

A study by the University of Miami examined the survival rates of men who had been diagnosed with prostate cancer. Findings showed that married men survived longer over a 17-year period than men who had never been married."

"On the other hand, the health of divorced and widowed men deteriorated because of marital stress. However, for divorced men over 50, remarriage offers great health benefits, restoring their health to the level of never-divorced married men."

Now these are (probably) not studies of gay men, but it'd be interesting if the results were replicated.

by Anonymousreply 16905/14/2012

R168. That's only because they now have someone nagging them about seeing a doctor and reminding them to take meds, etc. I'm convinced my MIL kept my FIL alive for the last 20 years of his life by monitoring all his meds, his diet, doc appointments, tests, etc. He had several heart attacks, quadruple bypass and eventually wore a pacemaker. He would have just let it all go if not for her diligence.

by Anonymousreply 17005/14/2012

Most straight men need marriage to be happy because they won't do anything for themselves. They need a woman to cook, shop, clean, do laundry, make social engagements, get them to take their medicine, and on and on. Of course they die earlier if they are single because they eat crap, drink too much, live in a pig pen, aren't forced to communicate their emotions or to go see a doctor.

I think this is changing in the younger generations, but for those over 40 I'd say it's still the dominant way to need a wife or live-in girlfriend to take care of them.

Most of the gay men I know are much better at taking care of themselves then straight men of the same age and economic situation.

by Anonymousreply 17105/15/2012

r162 has a major victim mentality.

by Anonymousreply 17205/15/2012

[quote]Every study that comes out have shown that not only are men happier in marriage (much happier than women) they're also healthier as well.

They're talking about straight married men. THey're happier because wifey does all the cooking and cleaning and shopping and looking after the kids, except when Dad wants to show them off on the weekends at the little league.

by Anonymousreply 17305/15/2012

t

by Anonymousreply 17405/24/2012

r173, have you ever actually - er - KNOWN a straight married man? Or actually talked to one?

by Anonymousreply 17505/28/2012

cd

by Anonymousreply 17606/06/2012

I had a gay role model growing up, R159. He basically taught me everything important in life as a teen: always having a job, not relying on others, the importance of education, speaking well, acting professional, being a productive good person, etc. But, he was openly gay, and he said that was the most important thing to be as a gay person. He was the only gay person I knew from when I was a young teenager.

He had a huge impact on my life not only personally but professionally. I really believe his influence changed my outlook on myself and how I live my life. So, I agree with you, gay role models are extremely important. There needs to be more.

by Anonymousreply 17706/06/2012

I'm open to dating most guys. But they have to at least be "available" to me... and they are not. I'm capable of attracting a guy but they are usually attached, or they don't want anything serious. I want intimacy and closeness in a relationship, I want a best friend in a lover--and those things are too difficult to find.

All the comments in here perfectly point out the problem: gays are jaded and too picky.

The kiss of death for dating life-I can't tell you how many times I see online: don't email or contact me if you are X...Y...Z

Or... I'm already in a "relationship" and I'm only looking for a hookup

And no...

I don't have issues loathing gay sex or my attraction to men

I am out to the most important people in my life, my parents who are supportive and love me

The problem is I am not Perfect, and gays have an unrealistic expectation in partners.

Being gay is terrible. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. I'm sick of being gay.

by Anonymousreply 17809/19/2012

That is BS @R162

I have many straight friends, and relatives who married and committed to their partners or girlfriends because they are interested in something than a bedroom partner. They are guys, but they aren't guided by their penis. My father has been married to my mother, MONOGAMOUSLY for the past 32 years. And they still have sex with each other--and they are getting older all the while; so if straight men were superficial, they'd break up with their partners as soon as they gained weight or had developed wrinkles... it is not a straight guy thing. It is an immaturity thing.

by Anonymousreply 17909/19/2012

I've chatted with guys, and most argue why they won't get involved in a relationship: "I just want to live my life with no regrets and without missing out on anything...."

Yes, that would involve sleeping around and being adventurous. But that argument cuts both ways, is it out of the realm of possibility that could be applied to finding a partner you love and adore? You are missing out on that!

Whatever!

by Anonymousreply 18009/19/2012

Gay men tend to value freedom over pretty much everything else. I'm willing to give some of my freedom to have a monogamous relationship and most guys I meet just aren't. They want a perfect boyfriend who won't make demands on them at all. It's really too bad because a lot of us are alone not by choice but because there are just so few gay men out there who are ready and willing to be in a relationship.

by Anonymousreply 18109/19/2012

Monogamous gay guy here. Been in a committed relationship for 11 years. I call bullshit on the simplistic claim that guys are just guys and are hard-wired for sex. A lot of promiscuity stems from self-loathing. A lot of guys have tons of sex in a neverending effort to find validation from other guys. Sex and the resulting validation becomes like a drug. I think once a guy can work through his self-hatred at being gay and come to accept himself as something other than inferior to other men, he can open himself up to a committed relationship. If you don't love yourself, you're unable to love anyone else...total cliche, but it's true.

by Anonymousreply 18209/19/2012

The real secret to a successful relationship: don't live together. Preferably, live next door to one another. It's ideal. Give a lot and overlook minor issues/problems/flaws. Support each other. Laugh together. Take great vacations. Cheers!

by Anonymousreply 18309/19/2012

Most gay men are not mature enough for relationships.

Most gay men suffer from low self-esteem and they go out of their way to sleep with other men in order to be validated.

Relationships, for the most part, certainly in the straight world, are overrated. What's the point of being with someone who annoys you simply because you don't want to be alone? I'd rather be alone than share a limited living area with someone who can irritate me.

Most straight couples spend very little time together, as a couple. Most couples are just illusions: both husband and wife work. If they work the same shift great but their shifts might be different which means they won't see each other a lot. One of the two might work on weekends as well. The wife takes care of the kids, food. Husband takes care of house or other separate chores. They have different hobbies, she likes shopping, he likes sports. Some straight couple sleep in separate beds and have separate bathrooms and separate TVs. In the end, if you could calculate the number of hours a husband and wife actually spend alone together it would be very low. There are more divorces during retirement than any other period with couples because the husband and wife have to spend all their time with each other and they realize that they've been strangers and did extracurricular stuff to keep them busy and away from each other. In other words, it's all an illusion. The kids grow up and everyone moves on. So why would gay men go through that?

Ideally, I'd love to meet my soulmate but alas it's more fantasy than reality.

by Anonymousreply 18409/19/2012

"The real secret to a successful relationship: don't live together."

This is definitely working for my partner and I. We have been together for 3 and a half years now. I live in manhattan and he lives right across the river in Jersey City. We spend every Friday, Saturday, and Sunday together and really value our time together. Talk/text every day, of course. We love our time spent together, but we also like our alone time during the work week. I couldn't be happier.

by Anonymousreply 18509/19/2012

I've been in a monogamous gay relationship for 25 years, over half my life.

Truthfully, the reason so many gay men are single is the same reason the straight divorce rate is over 50%. Standards too high. And don't go assume that means the bar should be too low, there is a middle ground of having standards and yet accepting people and their flaws.

I've read threads here where the subject is "what is a dealbreaker for you" and the comments are 1) leaving the toilet seat up, 2) being cut or uncut 3) weight (nobody at 40 is going to maintain their 21 year old body weight), 4) snoring 5) type of career 6) type of music, so on and so forth. I can tell you for certain that these are the perpetually single men.

It doesn't mean lower the bar for just anybody. But the ability to accept differences is to rigid for some. Also, getting back to the divorce rate, we live in a society now where things are disposable and guys and girls, straight and gay, have adapted to that. It's easier to cite irreconcilable differences and start over. Older people lived in a time where if something was broke, you didn't throw it away, you fixed it. That time doesn't exist anymore.

Since many gay men can't get married or have kids, they have even less tying that relationship together. It's easier to just end it than it is to work it out.

by Anonymousreply 18609/19/2012

My last date told me I snore like a feral pig.

by Anonymousreply 18709/19/2012

I think there's a lot of truth in R186's post. I also think a lot of guys pretend that casual sex and open relationships are an escape from heteronormativity. Sometimes this is so, but usually it's not. The same guys I've encountered who rail against heteronormativity are usually into very heteteronormative sex and gender roles for men, which seems fucked up and hypocritical.

by Anonymousreply 18809/19/2012

Each person is on their own unique evolution. There are as many points of view on this subject as the number of people who are replying. No one is right except for themselves however when the majority of answers tend toward a negative response , which is how we've experienced the devastation of Aids, we should know that our thoughts , our actions, have been in error. If we can have sex without spreading disease and mental degradation , but still respect each other , that is a first stop toward a creative way of life, however when we become more enlightened, we will go in the direction of loving relationships.

by Anonymousreply 18911/23/2012

Everyone is a bottom and bottoms don't marry other dizzy bottoms.

by Anonymousreply 19011/23/2012

R190 owns this thread.

by Anonymousreply 19111/23/2012

Because most gay men have an over-inflated opinion of their hotness and think they're an 8+ and should eternally wait for an 8+ to fall in love with them. I'm not a bad looking guy at all, and I actually have a personality, but I've been shot down by guys who think they could land a Channing Tatum when Bruce Vilanch (but without money or fame) is more like it. I mean - really. Who are they kidding?

by Anonymousreply 19211/23/2012

R192...and who are you kidding?

by Anonymousreply 19311/23/2012

They haven't found the right girl and career takes all his time and Mascavige doesn't like any of the candidates

by Anonymousreply 19411/23/2012

Maybe OP just doesn't know enough people. Why are we taking his view that there are lots of single gay men? Maybe he just knows single men and the couples are at home and he doesn't meet them.

Most of the gay men I know are in relationships, many of several decades (including my own). Most of these couples are monogamous. But I wouldn't generalize from my experienc

by Anonymousreply 19511/23/2012

Because relationships between men work very badly. Usually they break up when they get bored with sex, which usually happens quickly, because they are used to having easy sex around and get bored easily of doing it always with the same person.

The few couples that do last usually have no sex, but personally I have seen very few long-lasting couples, despite being gay myself and quite experienced.

by Anonymousreply 19611/24/2012

AD = Album Dumbledore?

by Anonymousreply 19711/24/2012

Once you hit your 40s, companionship is more important that sex, at least it is with me. I did all the whoring around when I was younger. I no longer have the desire or energy for that kind of lifestyle anymore. I'd much rather travel the world, or go out to eat and a movie than stand against a wall in a gay bar looking for a trick.

by Anonymousreply 19811/24/2012

Lovers are more important than tricks after a certain age.

by Anonymousreply 19911/24/2012

The reason is SO many of them suffer from borderline personality disoreder and the even worse schizotypal personality disorder. No one wants to be around that. That's heavy.

by Anonymousreply 20011/24/2012

Why is there so much psychological bullshit on this thread?

I don't see any threads calling straight single men over 40 psychotic or borderline or whatever.

by Anonymousreply 20111/25/2012

You know why people are single, don't ask the obvious OP. Someone chooses or not to be single out of loneliness and mistrust.

by Anonymousreply 20211/25/2012

What city?

Is OP under the impression that DL is some sort of regional website? How idiotic. We have many posters from other countries and continents, let along throughout the US and Canada.

Moron.

by Anonymousreply 20311/25/2012

Lol 203, don't be so harsh! Be good ffs! Why you got pissed off?

:)

by Anonymousreply 20411/25/2012

I agree with the poster that said straight marriage has a 50% survival rate. My father has been married 4 times. I'm single but most of my friends are partnered. I go and visit them all the time. It doesn't necessarily make me want to sign up for another hitch. You have to get your needs and wants together. Do you NEED a partner or do you just WANT one. It's better to want. My Dad "needed" a woman in his life. I've had three or four LTRs but have been single for a while now. I like it. But I was always a loner.

by Anonymousreply 20511/25/2012

R205, You are sincere with yourself and that is enviable. For many people, it's so difficult to realize or accept that they are loners. Of course that doesn't exclude the fact that something can happen for everyone and for anyone is possible to find the right person for themselves. Life is unpredictable even in our routine. I believe in luck too and in happy or miserable accidents.

by Anonymousreply 20611/25/2012

They love a Saturday Night!

by Anonymousreply 20711/25/2012

these gay guys usually have avoidant personality disorder. Same syndrome for the freakish straight guys. The best show in the world is listening to how they blame society and others for their lack of true relationships.

by Anonymousreply 20811/25/2012

Easy, let Dan tell you.

by Anonymousreply 20911/25/2012

Savage makes some good point, monogomy possible, but a new concept and do not ruin a good relationship if someone messes up.

by Anonymousreply 21011/25/2012

Society is to be blamed. We are all to be blamed actually because we are not good enough with each other as it seems from some hateful and overly the top critical posts some people send in here.

by Anonymousreply 21111/25/2012

so many cocks, so little time??

by Anonymousreply 21211/25/2012

Infidelity isn't necessarily about the sex, but the lies, deceit and betrayal. It's the idea of "cheating" on someone that is the real knife in the heart so to speak.

by Anonymousreply 21411/26/2012

Maybe because many other gay men don't have passports?

by Anonymousreply 21611/26/2012

R215, STFU.

by Anonymousreply 21711/26/2012

We have been married since 2002 (with a 2.5 yr divorce in the middle) to a handsome, well-built 41 yr old Latino with massive un-cut sizemeat and humungous sperm-loaded heavy-hanging man-balls!

by Anonymousreply 21811/26/2012

There is nothing so picky as a moderately attractive gay man. They are ruthless about excluding anyone even remotely less attractive than themselves because of how they feel it will reflect on them in a culture that prizes looks with an adolescent intensity.

by Anonymousreply 21911/26/2012

What happens to all the single gay men who die of old age? You never hear anything about them.

Are there lots of gay men in nursing homes?

by Anonymousreply 22011/26/2012

220 i have red that it sucks to be in nursing homes if you're gay-there is homophobia and exclusion. did you know that when the nazis imprisoned us in camps with the other unwanted,the others were abusing and avoiding us?tells you a lot about human nature,huh? 217 why should i be quiet?did i remind you of yourself?you can`t run away from yourself dude.

by Anonymousreply 22111/26/2012

Because men are pigs

by Anonymousreply 22211/26/2012

You said pretty much what I was going to post R219. Many gay guys only want Mr. Perfect Looks.

by Anonymousreply 22311/26/2012

Gays should be tender with each other and stop being so fucking egoists when it comes to their needs. If you don't work for a relationship, it's not going to work out by itself. Gays should be more humble and less stuck-up.

by Anonymousreply 22411/26/2012

Unrealistic expectations, both on who their partner should be and what the relationship should be.

by Anonymousreply 22511/26/2012

There's no natural reason for a gay man to need or want a one on one relationship. Our pairings are the result of the nurturing we experienced with our heterosexual parents. Being gay delays the development of adulthood by a few to several years, depending on the person. This too reduces the likelihood of permanent pairings happening. We won't even get into the effect of the damages many of us experience just coming out as gay, but these too limit the prospects of long term pairing among us gay guys.

It may change for future generations, but I tend to doubt it. I think more of society will be like us rather than us becoming more like them. It has everything to do with personal securities and fewer feelings of need.

by Anonymousreply 22611/26/2012

I may have already shared this on this thread, but I am not so certain gay men are any more single than straight men or women or gay woman. I do know that there are many many more single adults in the US in 2012 than 1975 as a percentage of the total population.

by Anonymousreply 22711/26/2012

People who say "Thread Closed" should be taken out back and beaten.

by Anonymousreply 22811/26/2012

Ok, after going through this thread again, it seems like there are three categories that make up the large amount of single gay men...

Group #1: Gay men that are single because they are whores or sluts

Group #2: Gay men that are single because their standards are too high, and they cant live up to their own standards

Group #3: Emotionally damaged/distressed gay men

Which category are you single men under?

by Anonymousreply 22911/26/2012

Variety is the spice of love in my opinion. I've never understood why any gay man would want to saddle himself with the same guy exclusively long term. What's the point of being gay if you're going to tie yourself down like that? Leave that to the straights. As you can see, most of them are miserable in their long term relationships. LEARN FROM OTHER'S MISTAKES!

by Anonymousreply 23011/26/2012

R230, please tell me you're under 30? Otherwise, you're just pathetic. Who wants to be trolling Grindr and bathhouses at 50?

by Anonymousreply 23111/27/2012

R231, I think it's refreshing that gay men shun traditional relationships/monogamy mores. People have become so browbeaten by the boring monogamy/marriage default model, that they are absolutely SHOCKED that other alternatives exist.

by Anonymousreply 23211/27/2012

Gay men should stop acting as if excessive freedom won't hurt nobody, cause it even hurts themselves sooner or later.

by Anonymousreply 23311/27/2012

So many bottoms, egocentric about their assholes looking for anything to go up their ass. Bottoms can't marry other bottoms.

by Anonymousreply 23411/27/2012

"They want one but are repulsed by their peers?"

Most of the posters in the poll picked this one. I get it. Ageism happens everywhere, straight, gay, I don't care. My father's been married four times and the latest one is two years older than I am. I've always been interested in guys my own age (up there) but I can't score in a public setting. Maybe at a friend's barbecue or something. I, however, will talk to anybody and I'm just wondering...how many people out there (of any age) are willing to date guys their age?

by Anonymousreply 23511/27/2012

R231, did I say you had to troll bathhouses and Grindr to find playmates? No, I didn't. There's enough stock available through the normal ways of meeting people that anyone who has any level of conversive ability should be able to hook up constantly.

And no, I'm not under 30. In fact I'm far past it.

by Anonymousreply 23611/27/2012

once a gay man is 50 they should just kill themselves

by Anonymousreply 23711/27/2012

That would be 10 years too late.

by Anonymousreply 23811/27/2012

R237, come on sugar, don't be dramatic. Being single can be a blessing in disguise sometimes. Some single gays are very decent and i respect them a lot. It's all about the attitude that matters and the quality of one's life.

by Anonymousreply 23911/27/2012

They're still men, and don't want to be tied down. In hetero relationships, the woman holds it together. Gay men are also incredibly shallow. A lot of people go through conversion therapy due to how the gay community functions, or doesn't function, on a personal relationship level.

by Anonymousreply 24011/27/2012

The first US gay marriage ended in divorce. They didn't even make it a year.

by Anonymousreply 24111/27/2012

I honestly believe that all of us are refugees from some great and pro-longed war. The war may seem to be over, but the mopping up is going to take a while.

All of us have been damaged pyschologically and emotionally from decades of discrimination, ridicule, cruelty, bullying, and lack of support from family and friends. It will take a couple of generations to achieve stability in our realtionships, and we are well on our way to achieving that.

Even those rare birds who haven't seen or felt the sting of hate have been affected in subconscious ways. We'll get there!

I love us!

by Anonymousreply 24211/27/2012

Straight men may be more likely to be in relationships because theirs are socially sanctioned, but I'm not convinced their attitude is any better or different. Men, in general, are always looking for the next best thing, even when the best they'll ever get is right by their side.

by Anonymousreply 24311/27/2012

Older and mature gays aren't interested in other mature and older guys. They can say they are but when it comes down to it.....

by Anonymousreply 24411/27/2012

244 that's your fear. It doesn't happen all the time. I mean, you can be attracted to young guys, it's natural but you can also be attracted to a person of an older age. It's all about chemistry between you and the other person, not a matter of age. Of course when you are as old as a mummy, you have to forget sex and focus on other pleasurable things.

by Anonymousreply 24511/27/2012

I cannot even imagine what R246 thinks he just said. Can we get Nurse Cheryl to adjust the dosages at the Home?

by Anonymousreply 24711/29/2012

R246, for how many of your 56 years have you spoken English?

Does a "brittle prick" crumble at a touch?

And for fuck's sake, "craven" does not mean "craving," "hungry," or "lusty." It means weak and cowardly.

by Anonymousreply 24811/29/2012

All of the above depending on the individual. You can't lump all perpetually single gay men together.

And often they want one but can't find one that works.

by Anonymousreply 25011/29/2012

Gays are generally train wrecks. Superficial, shallow, self-absorbed, and immature. They only care about the latest trends and have no substance, much less value, to anyone with a quarter of a brain.

If you are over 30, you are pretty much invisible, if not dead. The ideal range for gays is 18 to 29. If you're over 30, you better be rich and in God-like shape.

Gays are always looking for the next best thing and a "relationship" is no different. Gays are not wired for coupling up unless it's a one-night fling.

Gays deserve to be single and the ones that "want" a relationship should stop trying: It's not going to happen. Not now. Not ever.

by Anonymousreply 25111/30/2012

There are too many slobs in the gay community. No one talks about the boner factor. Gay men want to get boners from looking at you. Most gay men don't realize that. They think they can mind fuck gay men. Somehow they are going to attract and keep gay men by their intelligence and personality. Once you go beyond major city limits you will find gay men to be out-of-shape and/ or fat mostly. There is no pressure for gay men beyond metropolitan areas to be physically in shape.

On the other hand, there is a large group of gay men who are totally deluded in their standards. They want masculine men and they think only heterosexual males have that therefore they don't want to date gay men.

by Anonymousreply 25211/30/2012

because all the gay single men are looking for guys who are like heterosexual men and not gay men.

by Anonymousreply 25311/30/2012

R251 is a jaded little fool.

I only really got started dating men when I was 28, and now at 42, I've had a fulfilled life, two long term partners, and am back into dating. I'm seeing three different guys at the same time now...with one of them I like a lot.

Every single guy I've been in a short or long term relationship with, and all my fuckbuddies, are all above average to incredibly hot looking, and they all have brains and good jobs.

I'm really glad I didn't listen to people like R251 when I was younger, or else I would have decided I was dead and invisible at 30 too. The truth for me was actually quite the opposite.

And no, I'm not in perfect shape, and I'm not rich. I'm pretty average, but my general confidence and humor manage to get me through many doors...

by Anonymousreply 25411/30/2012

Interesting letter and response here, good advice...

(really hope the link works)

by Anonymousreply 25611/30/2012

Ok, that link sorta didn't work. Scroll to page 42/43.

by Anonymousreply 25711/30/2012

Because most of the hot masculine men are either 1) closet; 2) bisexuals in relationships with women; or 3) heterosexual.

by Anonymousreply 25811/30/2012

Glad to see Eric Cantor and Aaron Schock collaborated on R251.

by Anonymousreply 25911/30/2012

You are wrong on all three counts, Mary r258.

The real reason is very simple: They are already taken(because they are hot, of course)

by Anonymousreply 26011/30/2012

As R251 said: "Gays are generally train wrecks. Superficial, shallow, self-absorbed, and immature."

Quite true. Just like straight people.

by Anonymousreply 26111/30/2012

Most men who are attracted to men are deeply closeted and/or in denial. The notion of significant number of men publicly identify as non-heterosexual is very recent and still not represents the minority of men who are same-sex oriented. Having so many bi/gay men in denial severely reduces the number of same-sex coupling opportunities.

by Anonymousreply 26211/30/2012

Maybe because my partner of 16 years dumped me the day after election day. I gave him my youth!!

by Anonymousreply 26311/30/2012

Don't forget the part where many of the gay relationships on display are extremely unappealing. Think of Calvin Klein and his boytoy. Think of the couple who proclaim their love for each other and are constantly on Scruff. Think of the couple that have been together for ever but haven't had sex in a decade. The homely but rich guy paired with the hot young thing.

You see this with straight couples also, but they don't generally have the freedom to pursue alternatives. We don't have biological clocks ticking, we don't have a timeline for our relationships, and we get to have the relationships we want rather than the ones our parents or friends push us toward.

Why do you see this as a bad thing? I'll always prefer being single to being in a bad relationship.

by Anonymousreply 26412/01/2012

[R254] said, "my general confidence and humor manage to get me through many doors..."

Yeah and apparently you are being *shown* the door more often than not if after 14 years of dating you are still single at the age of 42.

Prime example of why gay men are single (and rightfully so).

by Anonymousreply 26512/01/2012

Because other fags are always so willing to judge other people's relationships that they know nothing about but think they do. Read this thread.

by Anonymousreply 26612/01/2012

[quote]Yeah and apparently you are being *shown* the door more often than not if after 14 years of dating you are still single at the age of 42.

Why should there be a time limit to becoming partnered?

How would you know the reasons for my partnerships ending?

And why would you emphasize being a married GAY man? Why so defensive? You appear to enjoy 'putting me in my place', simply because I'm single at 42. You don't sound too mature yourself. At least I'm owning my demons...

by Anonymousreply 26712/01/2012

r265, you make it sound like every single gay man should be married, like we're all female characters in a 1950s Hollywood melodrama. Does it ever occur to you some gay men actually enjoy being single?

by Anonymousreply 26812/01/2012

No, R268, I think he's entirely directing his ire at me, because he thinks I'm bragging for its own sake, and felt the need to knock me down a peg by touting his own married status as proof of his maturity and bad assness.

I WAS bragging about being an average guy who gets lucky with guys, because I was refuting the notion that you're dead at 30...I only just woke up at that point, lol.

by Anonymousreply 26912/01/2012

Most gay men are mentally ill and only a few of us seek treatment.

by Anonymousreply 27012/01/2012

Mentally ill in what way r270?

by Anonymousreply 27112/01/2012

Depression

NPD

BPD

Avoidant Personality Disorder

Low self esteem

by Anonymousreply 27212/01/2012

r262 speaks the truth.

the number of 'out' sissies is perhaps 1% of total sissies worldwide.

by Anonymousreply 27312/01/2012

Bullshit r45, most men are dying to be dominated. But they want it authentic - they want to be put on the bottom, not to have to ask for it.

by Anonymousreply 27412/01/2012

I am single because I am pretty frustrated and disappointed with my gay experiences. I wished that they were better. Unfortunately, I have no control of how others deal with me soo I remain single until I get treated better.

by Anonymousreply 27512/05/2012

[quote]Maybe because my partner of 16 years dumped me the day after election day. I gave him my youth!!

You shouldn't have voted for Romney.

by Anonymousreply 27612/05/2012

I cant answer from some else but on my casa when i was on my 20 s i wanted be available for every body i was horny all the time and i was addicted to meet the next new guy who could be better than the last one .now on my 30s i do want a relation and not be single no more but most people at my age are still looking for sex or many are still very inmature and superficial it is to hard find the right one yet and i can forget how to fall in love and i am to use to be alone

by Anonymousreply 27712/06/2012

Gays are only interested in young hotties. If you are over 40 and average looking, fuhgeddaboutit!

by Anonymousreply 27812/06/2012

I have a question. Do guys past 35 who've given up on dating still check out the online dating sites?

I'm thinking of posting and plunging back in but the pickings over 35 seem slim - just on a volume basis, not on looks or anything.

So if I post are there essentially lurkers who might come out of hiding /despair/skepticism for a decent guy? And I am actually a decent, stable, nice looking guy. I just hate Palm Springs, man made nipples and lycra. Also monogamy doesn't make me panic.

by Anonymousreply 27912/10/2012

Gay men are selfish. To be with someone, it requires a commitment, to share, to give, to accept, to forget, to forgive, to invest, to accommodate. Many singles are not willing to do so. I am partnered for over 15 years, and over the time I learned that it is important to forgive shortcoming, to sacrifice, and conform. Through our relationship we had lows, but it makes our partnership stronger. We do have sex regularly, and we built a life together. Single gays demands too much from their potential mate, not satisfied with look, dick size, sexual position, money, standing. Once you hit a certain age where you live only by yourself, it is almost impossible for them to have any relationship.

by Anonymousreply 28012/28/2012

Agree with R280. Selfishness and impossible demands are at the heart of why so many of us are single. I do a lot of online dating and most of the guys are gone by the 2nd or 3rd date even though I'm willing to keep going with about 80% of them. In low moments I think there's something really wrong with me, but then I see so many other 40-somethings like me, all single. What are we all waiting for, Mr. Perfect? I can get sex partners easily but trying to get a boyfriend seems nearly impossible.

by Anonymousreply 28212/28/2012

Come to datalounge and take a look around on any given day. The average gay man has the personality of a hyena with the expectations of Naomi Campbell circa 1989. They think they deserve nothing but champagne, caviar, and red carpets, while contributing nothing to society but their self appointed expert "opinions" on art, fashion, and anything else upon which they deem themselves authorities. Woe and betide the person who has a gay man as a boss. Gay men abuse authority without conscience. Miserable, sad, drug and alcohol addicted, shallow, misogynistic, racist, fascist excuses for human beings who do nothing but complain, put everyone around them down, and wonder why they all end up alone, buying rent boys and fake orange tans and botox as everyone around them enjoys the lives that they look down upon as tacky and "flyover," but which actually bring joy and fulfillment and lasting love into old age.

by Anonymousreply 28312/28/2012

r283 really went in on you bitches. You need to pay attention because r283 is serving some realness concerning what the problem is. Matter fact, some of y'all need to print r283's post out and recite every night before bed....it should take care of that upset tummy.

by Anonymousreply 28412/29/2012

r283=angry lesbian who rarely leave the house.

by Anonymousreply 28512/29/2012

I could never settle for someone who didn't share my enthusiasm for bareback porn, Madame Alexander dolls, and FOLLIES.

by Anonymousreply 28712/29/2012

Albert Redneck is that you at r285?

by Anonymousreply 28812/29/2012

R282 online dating are generally worthless. People behave differently behind the internet and in public. If you want to meet anyone seriously, you will need to get among the people: to bars, sports and social events, and through other people. Minority of gay men do online hunting. If city of 8 mil like NYC has only 200-500 or so men online at any given time, you miss the good majority.

by Anonymousreply 28912/29/2012

R289, you make a good point about meeting people in person, but gay bars are worthless for anyone over 35, unless you're only looking to hook up. You just don't meet quality adult single men in gay bars.

by Anonymousreply 29012/29/2012

Lez here. You guys are being too bitter and hard on yourselves. Yes, many gay men can come off superficial and shallow, but you are going overboard with the genocidal Naomi Campbell references. I know partnered gay men who enjoy common interests and pleasures. And single ones who are kind and thoughtful.

If gay men have a fault (that goes along with perfectionism and attention to detail) it is getting hung of on little things that don't really matter.

"Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible." -- Dalai Lama

Be kind to yourselves, it ia a start.

by Anonymousreply 29112/30/2012

Gay men can be horrible to each other, and that's a FACT! I find datalounge to have some of the shallowest, nasty queens on the planet as posters, and some of the best guys out there.

Online dating (among gays anyway) can work, but the odds are rigged against the seekers.

by Anonymousreply 29212/30/2012

[quote]Come to datalounge and take a look around on any given day.

R283, you really need to get out more.

by Anonymousreply 29312/30/2012

R115: I am British and I have dated men all over the world. American men are just like everyone else. There are good ones and bad ones. Mostly good, in my experience. Remember, you only get back what you give. You seem to have a huge chip on your shoulder. I feel sorry for you, mate.

by Anonymousreply 29412/30/2012

All you have to do is read some of the comments on this site to find out why so many gay men are single - because so many of them are mean, nasty bitches.

by Anonymousreply 29501/26/2013

251--you are ridiculous. I am 47 and have been hit on a lot in bars by hot 20 something guys. So, one is not invisible after 30. Far from it.

by Anonymousreply 29601/26/2013

A lot of people think a "relationship" would "complete" them! They know everything they're looking for in a partner. Unfortunately most of them give little or no thought to what they BRING to this imagined fairy tale ! Sad but typical(sigh)(eye roll).

by Anonymousreply 29701/26/2013

Well, Why are most of the guys I fuck straight and married?

by Anonymousreply 29801/26/2013

This is a bit like asking, "Why are so many Black guys thieves?" Are we just supposed to take the premise at face value, and not question it? Maybe the problem is YOUR assessment of gay men. Maybe you just attract assholes. Or maybe you're just stupid. There are many possibilities. You should list some of THOSE in your survey.

by Anonymousreply 29901/26/2013

Because I am only attracted to 100 percent masculine dudes, which means I am only attracted to straight or bi guys who don't want a relationship with a dude.

by Anonymousreply 30001/26/2013

Most couples I know who have been together for a while all cheat on each other so they may as well be single. As someone pointed out- it's like a magnet.......opposites attract and bind together-same poles don't and can't. Most gays are also safe hating....even though they deny it.

by Anonymousreply 30101/26/2013

Wow. The responses on here are 10 times nastier and more stereotyping than if you'd asked the same question on Free Republic.

by Anonymousreply 30201/26/2013

I wonder what percentage of the guys here would agree with r300.

by Anonymousreply 30301/26/2013

Yeah, I do, definitely!

As for the gays on here, you mostly sound like bitchy queens not even a dog would want to fuck, but that's for another thread...

by Anonymousreply 30401/26/2013

For a while I thought something was wrong me because I wasn't able to meet that special someone. As time goes on and I'm in my early 50's I feel differently about being single. I like it. I'm comfortable in my own skin. I don't have the need to be in one.(relationship) and I have friends and family who love me unconditionally. And most of all I'm happy. And I wouldn't have it any other way. I'm just grateful for what I have and not worry about things that may or may not happen. Enjoy each moment that you are alive, because happiness comes from within not from someone bringing it to you.

by Anonymousreply 30502/07/2013

I am "single" because I am not heterosexual, and I do not want to try to emulate heterosexuals with some sort of "gay" marriage. The men that I fuck don't get knocked-up so I don't have to "marry" them. You must be aware that the reason for heterosexuals trying to live in monogamy is usually that the woman got knocked-up?

by Anonymousreply 30602/07/2013

R306 That's not true at all. Many monogamous hetero couples have no children. Some men just finally get bored with screwing around and want to settle down.

You have to realize that most men are not Hugh Hefner, pro sports player, rock stars or politicians so they don't have a bevy of hot supermodels or even regular attractive women throwing themselves at them. It's not as hard as you think to stay faithful.

There's nothing wrong with being single. But the instinct to pair up has very little to do with emulating heterosexuals. Just look at how many gay couples have been together 35 years or more even when there've been no possibility of ever getting married.

There's something about having someone around when you've just been laid off or a parent has died or you've been diagnosed with cancer. To have someone there to hold your hand and comfort you, that can beat getting off with a stranger every single time.

by Anonymousreply 30702/07/2013

[quote] Just look at how many gay couples have been together 35 years or more even when there've been no possibility of ever getting married.

6?

by Anonymousreply 31002/11/2013

People look for ideal partners they want, and they want it all: looks, sexual dynamo, rich, powerful.

But no one could live up to those standards. And chronically single people, are single because they have too high standards for ANYONE to live up to.

Gay men succumb to this problem, like anyone else.

by Anonymousreply 31102/11/2013

Well gaybros do not hang out with other gays. So, I would imagine many gaybros are single. I know a lot of gay men, however who are partnered for 30 + years. More partnered gay men than single.

by Anonymousreply 31202/11/2013

[quote]And chronically single people, are single because they have too high standards for ANYONE to live up to.

Or the just don't feel the need to be half a couple.

You could say that chronically coupled people are so insecure that they will completely suppress themselves just to make sure that someone else is always there for them.

by Anonymousreply 31302/11/2013

It's internalized/homophobia for a lot.

by Anonymousreply 31402/11/2013

Most guys I see are partnered up. And fucking around on the sly

by Anonymousreply 31502/11/2013

Do gays really care about gay marriage? I do, but I want to get married. But, on the whole, do gays really care about gay marriage? Seems not having it does really change anything for most.

by Anonymousreply 31602/11/2013

I'd like to see some scientific study done about this and not a bunch of people on DL pretending that the "information" they are presenting is some scientific fact instead of just their opinion based on the limited amount of people they know.

The majority of gay men I know are partnered and are monogamous. I don't know a lot of single gay men.

But I would hardly say that qualifies me to make some of the statements that some people are making in this thread from their just-as-limited point of view.

And of course the anti-gay slimeballs are posting frequently as well.

by Anonymousreply 31702/11/2013

I know many older gay men who have been together for decades. I know one couple my age, 33, who is open. They are closeted to all of their friends, and at work. One of them was married to a woman for ten years, but he's still self-loathing. I don't associate with them much anymore.

by Anonymousreply 31802/11/2013

.

by Anonymousreply 31902/11/2013

It's all opinions and uneducated guesses on here R317. We don't even know if there's a huge amount of single men out there and even if there are if they've always been single. Lots of people go in and out of relationships and their singleness for example, could just be a state they're in in between long term relationships.

by Anonymousreply 32002/11/2013

They don't want to put in the energy needed to maintain a relationship, much easier to hit it & move on to the next as soon as things aren't smooth as buttah !they are out. This goes for straight guys also. They would rather be old & lonely, then ever work on a relationship & believe me All relationships require working together to keep them working.

by Anonymousreply 32102/11/2013

[quote]But no one could live up to those standards. And chronically single people, are single because they have too high standards for ANYONE to live up to.

Further to this, people who say they just have "high standards" are insecure and are looking for an impossibly sexy and successful mirror to admire themselves in. People commonly look to others to find what they think they themselves lack.

by Anonymousreply 32202/11/2013

But on this thre R320 people are making their educated guesses out to be reality.

by Anonymousreply 32302/11/2013

Damaged goods. Past sell-by-date, expired?

by Anonymousreply 32402/11/2013

The answer isn't always so simple. I was in a LTR that lasted about 14 years. I've been single now about 8 1/2 years. I just haven't found anyone I've clicked with in those 8+ years. I've dated a few guys but it just hasn't worked out to be something long-term. Yet I constantly have people asking me why I'm single as if I'm defective. It doesn't seem to count that I was in a LTR for nearly 14 years. I would prefer to be in a relationship, but after this many years alone, I'm not sure it will happen as I march toward 50. And if it doesn't, that's just the way it goes.

by Anonymousreply 32502/11/2013

First of all, straight people should stop trying to set their gay male friends up. That is a really dumb idea, you always get it wrong. I'm sort of masculine, so my friends, that were girls, would set me up with very effeminate drag queens. How does that work? Butch with fem? As I get older those rolls diminish thank god, but if you're going to set me up with a drag queen, I like them butch.

Second of all, two people should have a little something in common for a relationship to work. You can set up a Madonna/Britney Spears loving queen with gay guy that loves MotorHead...and they are out there. But, it sounds like a match made in HELL. Although, the sex might be real good.

Third, Have you had a long term relationship with a man? Its like being forced through obedience school. The butchest guy cries when he hurts his little toe, but won't lift a finger when your arthritis flares up. Its amazing more gay men don't cheat.

Fourth, women should never be commentators to a relationship breakup. You girls always make it worse with your Cosmopolitan view of relationships. Before girls give gay men relationship advice..they should evaluate their own relationship history, sanity, and knowledge of gay history and people.

by Anonymousreply 32602/24/2013

"How does that work? Butch with fem?"

Ask ANY lesbian!

by Anonymousreply 32702/24/2013

Because they look like,but are,less interesting than,a shovel.

by Anonymousreply 32802/24/2013

[quote]I'm sort of masculine,

I'm guessing no. Your friends are fixing like with like.

[quote] so my friends, that were girls

They were girls?

[quote]How does that work? Butch with fem? As I get older those rolls diminish

Try exercise to get rid of those rolls

by Anonymousreply 32902/24/2013

The truth is that over 90% of the gay people will never have a long term relationship. If you are reading this blog then you must be interested as to why this is true. (i am gay and with someone ... so don't start bashing me for my opinion) I think that most gay guys don't have the ability to feel for others. I am sick of TV showing nice caring gay guys... when it's not true. I have dated a lot of guys and NONE have been nice or caring... where they get this Sh*t is beond me.

by Anonymousreply 33003/10/2013

I think the biggest barrier and the primary reason is cultural stigma.

by Anonymousreply 33103/10/2013

R330, over 90%? That's bullshit. Most of the gay men I know are in relationships, many of them very long term.

This whole thread has been full of statistical bullshit quoted as truth when it's all anecdotal.

And, yes, my evidence is anecdotal as well. But your 90% figure is full of it.

by Anonymousreply 33203/11/2013

It is because ... of an issue that is NOT your fult. I order to have a loving relationship you must be able to love. I don't think you have the ability to do this. so in your case it is better to get a cat.

by Anonymousreply 33303/11/2013

Well, my partner of 16 years just dumped me, so that's why I'm single.

by Anonymousreply 33403/11/2013

Gay men are even bigger pigs that straight men, more selfish in every way.

That's the truth.

by Anonymousreply 33503/11/2013

r336? Wanna elaborate?

by Anonymousreply 33703/11/2013

Now Matt, I think you exaggerate.

by Anonymousreply 33803/11/2013

I'm single by choice.

I recognized early on that I had some serious issues when it came to relationships. Grew up with a violent alcoholic father and my mother was in and out of mental hospitals all throughout my teens.

Did years of therapy myself and was never able to get past a lot of the crap from my childhood and decided that it would probably be better if I didn't inflict myself on anybody else.

Now I'm so set in my ways when the random thought that maybe it would be nice to meet somebody, I immediately dismiss the idea.

I don't take and refuse to let friends set me up with people.

by Anonymousreply 33903/11/2013

Because even the ones who are not single, are "single." Been on Grindr lately? Most are partnered/married/dating but still on the prowl. Pretty much every coupled guy I know in real life plays on the side. I'll stick to my fb for sex and to my friends for companionship. Romance is dead.

by Anonymousreply 34003/11/2013

[all posts by ham-fisted troll a removed.]

by Anonymousreply 34103/11/2013

Wow I sounded really wise back when I was R28. And R155 on this thread was an outstandingly amusing post.

Now I just want to pants some of you because it would be funny.

A lot of you say "gay men have too high standards" and yet I picture your platonic gay friends typing the same thing about you twenty posts later.

A lot of you say "Gay men are shallow" but you admit you are unable to converse in small talk and have no dating game to get past the initial hurdle of communication aside from sex.

I think gay community centers need to hold classes not on "dating for gay men" but on Communication 101 for gay men.

That's where we need to start.

by Anonymousreply 34203/11/2013

A lot of gay men fall under the spell of "there's always someone better around the corner". While that may be true, it doesn't help the cause of permanence in a relationship.

by Anonymousreply 34403/11/2013

Because we're all whores.

by Anonymousreply 34503/11/2013

Since there's no women involved to get all marriage obsessed, things just don't move forward!

Actually, I do believe lot of gay gus over 45 years old just didn't come of age in a time where long-term same sex relationships were as popular or expected.

And yes, sometimes if you don't meet the right guy by 40, I do believe one is shit outta luck. Just like straight people, the odds go way down as one ages.

by Anonymousreply 34603/11/2013

The odds do go down after 40. However, you just have to know what pool to pull from if you are seriously looking for a LTR. Basically you either will meet a man who is out of a LTR for some reason that is not primarily his fault (e.g., partner cheated on him, partner had emotional issues that he couldn't resolve, etc.) or not his fault at all (e.g., partner died or he got dumped for a younger model). The other pool is the recently out, like guys who are married and then came out at 40-plus.

I understand that it is important that you be attracted to the guy you're with, but sometimes when you get to know someone they become more attractive or an attraction develops. It doesn't always have to be the coup de foudre as the French call it; that strike of lightning. Some gay men I know who whine that they can't find a relationship refuse to date anyone unless they meet their definition of HOT. Not a prescription for finding a mate if all you're concerned with is the superficial.

by Anonymousreply 34703/23/2013

I try. I always end up pursuing guys that just aren't that interested, and the only guys that go after me i'm not attracted to.

by Anonymousreply 34803/23/2013

well for us straight guys looking to meet a good woman to settle down with, it is very hard to meet a good one since many of them are lesbians today.

by Anonymousreply 34904/14/2013

OP's questions paraphrases the exact thing that Bette Midler said about gay people years ago, and yet Bette is raked over the coals for it. Why don't we just admit that a lot of gay guys like being single, and who cares?

by Anonymousreply 35104/14/2013

Die, straight man at R349. We hate you.

Of the 10 gay friends that I have, only 2 aren't in relationships. Granted, one of those 8 relationships is a farce - 'open', but giving open relationships a bad name - but the other 7 seem pretty solid and affectionate.

by Anonymousreply 35204/14/2013

So true

by Anonymousreply 35304/14/2013

At least "matt" is gone, "matt" the homophobic troll posting his fantasies as truth.

by Anonymousreply 35404/14/2013

Top 15 Reasons That You're Still a Single Masculine Gay/Bisexual Man

03/12/2012

Discreet City | By Nicholas Delmacy

A huge misconception that people have is that dating is easy for a Gay/Bisexual man. So many women right now are trying to play cupid and get the only two Gay people they know together as a couple. I mean, why not? They have so much in common: They're both Gay.

This is far from the case. In fact, Homosexual Dating is MUCH MORE COMPLICATED than Heterosexual Dating.

For example: When a man meets a woman in a bar/club and they go out for drinks the next day, there is NO QUESTION that its a date. When a Gay man meets another and they go out for drinks the next day, that's NOT a date, they're just "hanging out."

What the fuck is "Hanging Out?!"

This is the kind of semantic nonsense we have to deal with that Straight people do not. Other examples are "Friends First", "Friends with Exes" and "Antiquated Gender Role" bullshit that plagues gay culture like Cancer (I'll cover each of these in other posts). Don't get me wrong, dating women is no walk in the park. However as a man who has dated women in the past, I can tell you that it is in no way full of many variables and complications as when dealing with Gay/Bisexual men.

So I've compiled this list of The Top 15 Reasons That You're Still a Single Masculine Gay/Bisexual Man. This is intended to not only educate heterosexuals on all the shit we have to deal with...but to also shine a light on the potential reason/reasons why you Gay readers may be hopelessly single.

Picture This is the main killer of all potential relationships and even basic platonic friendships of many Gay men. You only need to briefly scour the many profiles on Gay dating sites to discover the laundry list of requirements Gay men place on one another. The most disturbing part about this is that MOST times the men are demanding prerequisites in others that they themselves do not even meet. Guys seem to all want this perfect fantasy "Superman" that they've created in their minds to "save" them, that more likely than not doesn't even exist. No one is perfect, not even yourself.

Picture Many gay men will agree: Chatlines are for Hookups. Dating sites are for Hookups. Cell Phone Apps are for Hookups. Clubs are for Hookups. The large percentage of men you meet through the aforementioned methods will most likely just be looking for quick no-strings-attached sex. That's not to say that hookup sex never leads to relationships, but the chances for it are low. Check out our 10 Level Guide to Meeting Masculine Men to find out alternative ways to meet men for more than just sex.

Picture Look into the mirror and honestly ask yourself if you are worth the effort. You say Yes? Now look at your cell phone...is it ringing off the hook with potential dates? No? You have your REAL answer...All jokes aside, no one is attractive to ALL men. We all have different tastes and preferences and something as simple as a poorly chosen tattoo around a belly button can soften even the hardest penis of a masculine Gay/Bisexual man. Focus on depending on more than your appearance and you'll find that more quality men will emerge.

See the remaining 15 Reasons That You're Still a Single Masculine Gay/Bisexual Man, In Just One Click. Picture No one likes fruit and vegetables that aren't ripe yet. No one likes undercooked food. Many Gay men see anyone 25 and younger as disasters waiting to happen, with good reason. At that age they are like horny puppies humping the first legs they see. It eventually passes with time, but not before they're potentially all used up. Alternatively, "Desirable Gay" seems to have an expiration date. After 27 years old, you're like an old loaf of bread: your edges start to harden until you are 40 and you're ready to just be thrown into the trash. This is how many Gays view older men. I say all this to say, there is an ageist attitude amongst Gay/Bisexual men that goes both ways (pun intended). This reason has no solution. It all comes down to what your intentions are for the potential relatio

by Anonymousreply 35504/15/2013

R254 here.

I'm just re-reading this thread, and what strikes me is how most people posting have avoided talking about the obvious...

Sometimes you end up meeting someone special...not perfect...but special. Some one person that you really like being around, someone that makes you laugh, someone you want to have lots of sex with...and who, in a crisis, shows themselves to be a good person, and worthy of all that time you spend with them - a keeper. What's better is that you can find yourself becoming a better person just by being with them, communicating with them, and sharing your life with them. This DOES happen to people sometimes...and it's called a relationship. It's real, it feels good (usually), it changes your life, drives you crazy at times, but you both feel that it's worth it - so you keep going...until it runs its course or until one of you dies.

That does happen to gay men at times...and I think that this is what many of us really want. A lot of people on this thread are pretending that they don't, and are claiming that single slutty behavior is the only way to be, and labeling a generally healthy gay relationship as 'heteronormative coupling'. This sentiment really ignores the fact that if/when you meet someone that you really click with, and it actually develops into a mutually respectful, loving relationship, ALL the shit talking in this thread really just floats downstream.

Love is where it's at, as much as we wish to ignore it.

by Anonymousreply 35604/15/2013

The closet and self-denial is a huge impediment.Most guys who are attracted to guys never really publicly acknowledge it, and that means they are out of the dating pools. It is a devastating fact that has implications beyond dating, especially with respect to political and social progress.

by Anonymousreply 35704/15/2013

Because most people feel as though others won't understand them. And they don't.

by Anonymousreply 35804/17/2013

Spot on, R356! I met someone a few months ago and I feel all those things when I'm with him, as he does with me. We know we have something special and we're going to work at it in the future to keep it. Right now being together involves no work at all because we're in the honeymoon phase. But we want a life together and are prepared for the work it involves. We both know what it takes as we've had past LTRs.

Love is indeed where it's at!

by Anonymousreply 35904/17/2013

I have never experienced so many judgemental, bitter and (internalized-) homophobic comments like the ones seen in this thread.

by Anonymousreply 36004/19/2013

I agree, r360.

I hate this thread. (My own fault for opening it when it pops up, I suppose, but whatever).

Really, if you asked the same question "Why are so many gay men single?" at Free Republic, I think the responses would be less hateful and homophobic than some of the ones here.

Get help, people. Stop hating other gay men. It is not healthy.

by Anonymousreply 36104/19/2013

Because most are in denial or in the closet.

by Anonymousreply 36204/25/2013

The closet is the biggest reason, and just plain denial.

by Anonymousreply 36305/06/2013

[quote]I think homosexuals are in a precarious social situation by design, being attracted to the same thing we want ourselves to look like.

I think this is huge wall many gay men have to learn to climb. This is the mentality that leads guys to say things like "my standards are too high". They're not. You're just chasing what you think you don't have and you'll never be satisfied.

by Anonymousreply 36405/09/2013

But the smoke got me and I got bronchitis. Ain't nobody got time for that.

by Anonymousreply 36505/09/2013

SCABIES! How the hell did I get SCABIES?!!!

by Anonymousreply 36605/09/2013

[quote]I think homosexuals are in a precarious social situation by design, being attracted to the same thing we want ourselves to look like.

I have never been all that attracted to what I wish to look like. I am pretty average looking, and feel pretty confident in my own skin, and I find I'm actually more attracted to guys who are just in average shape as well - they take care of themselves, but aren't obsessed with their bodies. That's really hot to me...because...if a guy is spending a lot of time thinking about his own body and appearance, that means he will spend VERY little time thinking about you or your relationship with him.

by Anonymousreply 36705/09/2013

Wow, there are alot of bitchy queens on here! No one wants to date a bitchy queen, regardless of their age or hotness. I would rather date an average looking guy, than date a hot guy with a negative outlook on life. Life is too short.

And life is not over for a gay man once he turns 30 years old. Channing Tatum is 33 years old and many gay men are obsessed with him! Richard Gere was 39 years old when he starred in Pretty Woman back in 1990 and he was extremely sexy. Mario Lopez is 38 and looks better now than during his Saved By the Bell days. Christopher Meloni, who is in his early fifties, didn't find huge success until he was around 40 years old, and alot of gay men, even now, find him to be quite sexy. James Denton from Desperate Housewives became a sex symbol at age 41. Johnny Depp and Brad Pitt are both nearing 50 and most gay men would kill to have sex with them. Anderson Cooper is over the age of 45 and is still labeled as a silver fox. Not to mention, Hugh Jackman, Will Smith, Danial Craig and Robert Downey Junior are all over the age of 40 and still are very attractive and handsome. To be honest, I find all of them to be more attractive, than Taylor Laughtner and Justin Beiber.

If you take care of yourself, eat right, work out, stay away from drugs and smoking, dress nice and limit your alcohol intake, a man can be sexy well into his early 60's or even later. And you can always make changes in your life to make yourself look better. If you are over-weight, go to the gym and start working out and eat healthier. Not only will you start to feel better about yourself, but you will look good too.

Also, if you want to find love, it takes two to tango. It takes work and effort. Nothing is easy in life, especially romantic relationships. Also, when the honeymoon stage is over, it's important to accept the flaws of your partner and learn to deal with them.

I think these bitchy queens on here are never going to be happy until they start seeing the bright side of life. Just because you are shallow, does not mean all gay men are like you. You can't generalize all gay men in this World. And also, chasing straight men is a waste of time. They aren't interested because they are straight. I personally have been romantic with a few masculine gay men in my lifetime. They do very much exist. There are plenty to go around.

I believe there are alot of gay men out there looking for relatioships, and not sex. I'm one of them. I like sex, but I love being in a relationship. I'm not looking for sex or love right now because I'm focusing on getting my degree and getting a good job. But once I accomplish my goals, I'm looking to find a man to possibly marry.

by Anonymousreply 36805/09/2013

I generally agree with that r368 is say, yet I still want to tell him to get a blog.

by Anonymousreply 36905/09/2013

Because I'm black.

by Anonymousreply 37005/09/2013

[quote]"The 'sleeping around' is also a sign that gay men don't like themselves very much." Wrong. It's actually a sign that they are just men.

True men want to get laid all the time. Plus one incentive to go long term is making kids but even though adoption is an option there really isn't the same connection or interest in that whole process.

by Anonymousreply 37105/09/2013

I cant speak for every gay man, but in my circle, its because we are too picky. We would rather be single than to settle for someone who doesn't meet our criteria. I dont necessarily think its a bad thing.

by Anonymousreply 37205/09/2013

Because they think the biggest dick is just around the corner.

by Anonymousreply 37406/14/2013

Because there aren't a lot of very masculine gay dudes, and guys are attracted foremost to masculinity. There are even fewer masculine gay guys who are physically attractive AND not in the closet.

by Anonymousreply 37506/14/2013

R 375 nails it. There are too many nellies

by Anonymousreply 37606/14/2013

It's funny. But so many guys I know drop the whole "not settling" thing while bemoaning their unyielding singledom. However, most aren't the adonises they think they are. By any stretch of the imagination.

And beneath it all it seems like they simply just want to fuck whomever, whenever, unencumbered by a partner who might get in the way. I really want to scream this at them sometimes.

Yet they still continue to complain about their current state of affairs. Essentially whining about not being able to have their cake and eat it too.

by Anonymousreply 37706/14/2013

The New Pew Research Center poll shows that a huge percentage of LGBTs are bisexual. In fact, bisexuals make up the single largest chunk of LGBTs, and a huge percentage of bisexuals are married to or in relationships with the opposite sex.

by Anonymousreply 37806/15/2013

Part of the problem is that gays and lesbians make up a small percentage of the population. We have a smaller pool from which to choose.

by Anonymousreply 37906/15/2013

Misery is not attractive.

by Anonymousreply 38006/20/2013

Because we all have a lot of fucking issues, and it's difficult to find a man whose issues are somehow compatible enough with yours to make it work long term.

by Anonymousreply 38106/20/2013

I don't like to compromise. I want probably too much. Why want a relationship, isn't it straight institution? Seen too many gay relationships ending because gays tend to sleep around.

by Anonymousreply 38206/20/2013

Coupledom is over-rated.

by Anonymousreply 38306/21/2013

Once you have been single for a while, it is difficult to get used to other people in your personal space. The compromise element does not come naturally to many.

by Anonymousreply 38406/29/2013

My best friend yesterday told me he's actually considering "switching" and finding a woman to marry. He's 42 and already so afraid of ending up alone, plus he truly feels gay men are incapable of real love and relationships whereas finding a wife would be "quick and easy." When I told him doing this would also make him unhappy (because he's gay and loves men too much to ever be content with a woman), he said he didn't care, that the alternative -- being alone -- would make him "more miserable."

Though it's none of my business, I truly hope he was just talking and won't actually do this. He's Turkish and has a lot of self-loathing issues where it comes to being gay anyway -- his mother, who still lives in his home country but he talks to her every week -- is still pressuring him to get married and have kids, so I think that's a HUGE part of this as well. He's supposed to go visit her next year and says he may end up marrying whatever girl she will surely have waiting for him when he gets there. But though he used to resist -- and resent -- that kind of stuff from his mother, now because he's lonely and hasn't a boyfriend in over a year, now he's saying it doesn't sound so bad to him anymore. I'm still hoping he will change his mind.

by Anonymousreply 38507/06/2013

For me, lack of eligible gay men.

by Anonymousreply 38607/06/2013

yh

by Anonymousreply 38707/18/2013

'

by Anonymousreply 38807/22/2013

I know there are tons of gay guys where I live, but it seems like everyone is in hiding. Most people just hook up online now I guess. Im mid 20s and it's depressing, it's like it's impossible to have an organic friendship with anyone now without them seeing a pic of your dick first.

by Anonymousreply 38907/23/2013

Most bisexual and gay guys do not want to identify as such publicly, so they either live lives denying their same-sex interest or seek same-sex activities on the down low so that no one will ever know. It is hard to sustain relationships in with that dynamic.

by Anonymousreply 39107/24/2013

Gay men think gay men are inferior men.

by Anonymousreply 39208/02/2013

See the personality test thread.

by Anonymousreply 39308/02/2013

where, r393?

by Anonymousreply 39408/04/2013

x

by Anonymousreply 39508/15/2013

Adam Lambert owns this thread.

by Anonymousreply 39608/15/2013

Relationships are difficult to maintain anyway. Two men together makes it even more difficult. We have issues remaining faithful to the opposite sex, let alone each other.

Most men my age want younger men (48), and are willing to spend their money and dignity on them. I've got too much pride to do that. And most young men in their 20s and 30s are simply too flighty and self-absorbed to be in good solid relationships. I know, I was that age.

And at this point, I'm too set in my ways to be in a relationship. Relationships involve compromise, and I'm not willing to do that anymore.

I'm all for the right for the LGBT community to have the same right to wed as heteros, but not for me. Not anymore.

Even though I think that he's an asshole, Dan Savage did have a point when he once wrote that some of us are just going to end up alone, regardless of sexual orientation. Everyone won't, nor were they necessarily meant to be coupled up with someone.

by Anonymousreply 39809/22/2013

After awhile, many gay men just say "screw it" and withdraw from the rat race. I see many younger gay men getting hitched and doing the whole courtship thing, but for older ones who grew up without all the options, it may be too late.

by Anonymousreply 39909/22/2013

/

by Anonymousreply 40209/27/2013

Femininity in men is not viewed as attractive by most.

by Anonymousreply 40310/05/2013

I can speak as to exactly why I'm still single.

I'm 31, good looking, great body, big dick, etc. etc.

My problem is that I made a career switch recently and my finances are a complete mess. I don't even feel comfortable dating anyone seriously and I won't for at least another 2-2 1/2 years until I finish grad school and get my shit together.

Also, I'm a black guy in gay world, so the race thing is there right now too, at least at this age. I date white guys and black guys. White guys all seem to be holding out for their perfect white superman until they either get 35-40 or become poz ( or both) and it's unbelievable how many issues black gay men have with simply being gay.

For me personally it's all enough to chuck the whole thing and focus on myself. At this point I genuinely believe that if I become the person I want to be, it will happen.

by Anonymousreply 40410/05/2013

or you can find a good girl and marry her.

by Anonymousreply 40510/05/2013

[quote]After awhile, many gay men just say "screw it" and withdraw from the rat race. I see many younger gay men getting hitched and doing the whole courtship thing, but for older ones who grew up without all the options, it may be too late.

This. R399 nails it.

by Anonymousreply 40610/05/2013

[quote]And at this point, I'm too set in my ways to be in a relationship. Relationships involve compromise, and I'm not willing to do that anymore.

This is another great point. After being single for so long, and now pushing 50, I just can't see making the effort, investment, and taking the time to "get used to" living with someone else. To build a relationship takes YEARS and lots of flexibility and compromise. I can't imagine doing that, and more importantly, I can't imagine anyone else doing that just to be with me...

It's too late. The ship has sailed.

by Anonymousreply 40710/05/2013

r404, Im 27, Im also black and single. I'm trying to become the person I want to be, like you are...but sometimes I think Im reaching for something that doesn't really exist.

I know I have to make myself dateable, but gay men have such expectations of perfection that I kind of just end up doing me. Focusing on my own life, making sure I keep my own head above water as a minority, is enough to leave me unavailable and exhausted most of the time.

Gay dating is like selling yourself like a product, and ain't nobody got time for that. I feel like straight people don't have to deal with this bullshit to such an extreme. So why should I?

r404, I would definitely go on a with date you, even if you felt like your shit wasn't together. Sometimes I feel like people like you and myself shut ourselves off to one another because we think we won't be good enough to date as we are.

by Anonymousreply 40810/06/2013

I tend to agree that the gay men who complain about the dating scene in the gay community would probably be single in the straight world too, if they were straight. I don't care about numbers. They seem to blame and point fingers rather than taking a look at themselves, which is where the problem is.

[quote]Gay dating is like selling yourself like a product.

I'm not sure what this means, but if it's referring to gay men only dating "hot" guys, well, welcome to the human race. This is found in all sexual orientations, male and female. I am disgusting and look like a monster, so naturally, men and women are going to look past me, or ignore me, or treat me like I'm sub-human. Because people like attractive things. Studies show that attractive people get perks and treated with more kindness and respect than those ghoulish like myself, and many here who are also vile looking, but can't bring themselves to admit it. I admit it. I recognize it. I look as though I came straight from Middle Earth, and that's unfortunate, but I accept it, those are the cards I was dealt, and I move on with my life. I don't blame people for being people.

And, it's not "gay men" as a whole, that's the problem. It's the individuals who find fault in gay men for everything because they have issues with homosexuality mostly.

I, also actually only know gay men who are partnered than single. So, maybe it's just the circle you run, OP.

by Anonymousreply 40910/06/2013

Because single is the NATURAL state for gay men. Those who desire some kind of hetero-normative identity will disagree. But, it's the truth. Even those who couple or even marry end up in fully open or "we play outside the relationship but only together" types of situations after a very short time. Maybe I need to be in the "bitter" thread on this?... :)

by Anonymousreply 41010/06/2013

r410, then why do gays want marriage?

by Anonymousreply 41110/06/2013

You can't believe the number of coupled up men I can't get to play outside the relationship. And I'm hot!

by Anonymousreply 41210/06/2013

First, r411, at least half of all "gays" are women.

Second, Datalounge is not the best source for what "gays want."

by Anonymousreply 41310/06/2013

I'm actually one of the few single gay men I know. Everyone else has gotten coupled up over the years, meaning I spend more and more time on my own.

I'm pushing 50 now, and I'm pretty sure I won't ever even date again, let alone be in a relationship.

by Anonymousreply 41410/06/2013

I'll be fifty next year. I've totally given up on the idea of dating or anything more. I go to my grave having failed somehow.

by Anonymousreply 41510/06/2013

So many closeted dudes and guys in denial eliminate the possibility for large numbers of gay and bi men to have relationships. For most, gay relationships are unthinkable, for others undesirable because they want a mainstream identity.

by Anonymousreply 41610/06/2013

r409, are you a gay man? I dont think you sound like one. The dynamics of gay dating go beyond the visual component of being "hot". You seem to be caught up in that part. There is that huge factor of masculinity that is also involved.

And as men, we naturally are competitive towards one another. But we can also become attracted to those who are our competition. You can read any thread here on an out gay celebrity and see how we cut each other down. There are so many conflicting realms of thought in gay courtship, so it's no surprise to me that gay relationships are usually short lived.

And to say that complaining gay men would still be single if they were straight is ridiculous. We live in a world that is designed around, yes, hetero-normative relationships. Everything in society is designed to make them prosper. Very little is intended for us, so what encouragement do we have to stay faithful to one another? That's why the gay marriage thing is such a big deal.

by Anonymousreply 41710/06/2013

Another example of why so many gay men will remain single:

by Anonymousreply 41810/10/2013

Black gay guys, why are you complaining about how being black and gay hold you back? Wouldn't it be easier if you stopped chasing white and white-Hispanic men and actually started chasing men that look like you? Just sayin'...This goes for you Asian nellies as well.

by Anonymousreply 41910/10/2013

r419, I don't recall saying in my post that I was "chasing" white and white-Hispanic men!

by Anonymousreply 42010/11/2013

R419 is right.

by Anonymousreply 42110/11/2013

"So many closeted dudes and guys in denial eliminate the possibility for large numbers of gay and bi men to have relationships. "

Same with femme lesbians

by Anonymousreply 42210/11/2013

r419, stop projecting. I'm r404 and shared very common concerns about dating in the gay world as a black man. I stated specifically that I date both black men and white men. The other dude didn't mention race at all. Stop trying to turn us both into obsessed snow queens.

by Anonymousreply 42310/14/2013

woof

by Anonymousreply 42410/15/2013

g

by Anonymousreply 42510/15/2013

R423 You are obsessed with whites. Get over it and go find your white knight and stop complaining.

by Anonymousreply 42610/16/2013

A lot of Gay/Bi guys just aren't attracted to most openly gay guys. I know it is not politically correct to say this, but if you read personals ads and profiles, you realize that the most important characteristic to m4m is that their perspective date be "masculine" or "normal." A recent study found that "masculine" was the most frequent word in male for male profiles. Unfortunately, most openly gay guys are not very masculine in appearance, demeanor, or interests as defined by mainstream judgment. For instance, a lot of openly gay dudes don't even watch ESPN or football, which most of society would not consider a masculine trait. Moreover, openly gay men tend to like girly entertainment, such as Bravo, female music, or musicals, which is likewise not considered masculine by most. Further, the language is most openly gay men is rather unmasculine, whether it is the reference to other males by female pronouns or use of words like "dear" or "girl." Whether they know it or not or even care, these are not widely considered to be attractive masculine attributes in a man.

by Anonymousreply 42710/17/2013

Isn't it interesting that there are so many self-described good looking, masculine, highly intelligent, wealthy, fit, amazingly hung guys out there who are terminally single? On message boards, it seems that they are always the single ones. They're single because everyone else is badly flawed and completely incapable of seeing the genius Adonis that they are.

by Anonymousreply 42810/17/2013

r427, you rock!!

by Anonymousreply 42910/17/2013

Watching sports isn't "masculine." Doing them is.

by Anonymousreply 43010/17/2013

Because there are so many gay men like R1 R3 R5 R8 in the thread linked below. Gay men hate other gay men in ways straights would never think of.

by Anonymousreply 43110/17/2013

r426, you can suck my fat black dick, how about that?

by Anonymousreply 43210/17/2013

r419/r426, please shut the fuck up. You are adding nothing to this conversation but your stank attitude. Bye gurl!

by Anonymousreply 43310/17/2013

The lack of masculinity of most openly gay men is perhaps the biggest factor. As stated, "masculine" is the most desired traits in dude-for-dude personals, which indicates that bi/gay men are having a tough time finding attractive masculine guys. One of the most popular phrases gay/bi men have when dating is "If I wanted a woman, I would get a woman" or "no fems." The problem is that gay culture is very non-masculine, and men who embrace that culture tend to become or already are very unmasculine. Sadly, the most masculine men tend to be closeted, bisexuals involved with women, or dudes on the down low, which is not optimum for building longterm relationships. The men most at peace with their homosexuality and actually seeking a public longterm relationship with men are often deemed unattractive because of their lack of masculinity. The closet and denial keeps masculine bisexual and gay men from entering the dating pool. It is a sad paradox that dooms the development of a masculine gay identity as well as largescale relationship opportunities.

by Anonymousreply 43410/17/2013

Yes, masculinity is desirable. Unfortunately, it can make you invisible to other gay men as a potential mate, even if you're not deep in the closet or on the down low. The same is true with lesbians and femininity.

by Anonymousreply 43510/17/2013

"The lack of masculinity of most openly gay men is perhaps the biggest factor"

Most gays don't have a problem finding someone to have sex with. It's not like gay men have fewer sexual partners than straight men or straight women. The issue is usually finding a lasting relationship. I think a lot of it boils down to the fact that all the social pressure that is on straight people to "settle down" for life and have kids isn't there for gay people (although maybe that will change when gay marriage becomes more common)

by Anonymousreply 43610/17/2013

The masculine issue is a HUGE factor. It is often not acknowledged for political reasons, but I see it all the time.

by Anonymousreply 43710/17/2013

Only old people who aren't getting laid anyway get so worked up about masculinity and use phrases like "dude-for-dude personals."

by Anonymousreply 43810/17/2013

Old people don't use phrases like "dude for dude" personals. That shit only comes out of the mouths of bros, who are all 27, and then they die.

I'm sure you'd consider me an "old person," and I don't ever say "dude" except sarcastically and with derision. And I never write it without quotation marks.

There's another forum I participate in, in which I've met a number of participants IRL. One is a gay guy who never fails to refer to himself as "masculine," "very masculine," and even "rather masculine." And then when I met him, he's this little, mousy guy. I don't dislike him at all, but "masculine" isn't the first word I'd use to describe him.

I think of him when I see all you "masculine" turds posting.

by Anonymousreply 43910/17/2013

Numerous studies have repeatedly shown that gay men who place personal advertisements tend to stress exhibiting masculine interests and behaviors, and they tend to seek masculine mates (Bailey, Kim, Hills, Linsenmeier, 1997; Laner & Kamel, 1977; Lumby, 1978; Phua, 2002; Taywaditep, 2001). For instance, in a study of 2,729 gay men’s personal advertisements, Bailey et al. (1997) found that gay men who chose to use gender specific self-descriptors were significantly biased towards stereotypically masculine traits (e.g., dominant, muscular, and athletic) and labels (e.g., “a masculine man,” “straight-acting,” and “jock”). Furthermore, most advertisers explicitly requested masculine mates and they expressed that stereotypically feminine traits were undesirable in a potential mate.

by Anonymousreply 44010/17/2013

What is masculine, though?

I gather queeny and bitchy isn't masculine. Were the leather types masculine? Were bears masculine?

After the Village people era there was the hyper masculine era, when everybody had pecs out to here, twenty gallons of gel in their hair, and no hair anywhere else.

Now it's all hipster with beards and plaids and nerd glasses.

So what is masculine? Or does it all boil down to the depth of the voice and the degree of the lisp, if any? And if it does, where the hell did all the high pitched voices with lisps go anyway?

by Anonymousreply 44110/17/2013

Are we the kind of boys/men we want?

According to a new study by John’s Hopkins University, the answer is no.

The new study, conducted as a series of interviews with 35 young/teen Black men who have sex with men ages 18-24 shows that they:

Almost exclusively prefer romantic and sexual partners they perceive to be masculine. Reluctant to allow a man they consider to be feminine to “top” them during sex. Allow men they perceive to be more masculine to control the terms of what kind of sex happens, including condom use. Consider masculine men to be less likely to have HIV, and feminine men to be more at risk.

According to the CDC’s last published incidence data from 2006, “among all black MSM, there were more new HIV infections (52%) among young black MSM (aged 13–29 years) than any other racial or ethnic age group of MSM in 2006. The number of new infections among young black MSM was nearly twice that of young white MSM and more than twice that of young Hispanic/Latino MSM.”

This study, while a very small sample, is interesting for several reasons. First, this study, unfortunately, speaks to the ways in which misogyny is very present in Black gay men’s spaces. Anyone who’s ever seen Black Gay Chat or Adam4Adam or any of the other outlets where Black gay men frequent for dating or sex, these notions about masculinity are abound. People still frequently post requirements about “must be masculine” or “no fats no femmes.” I am always curious about what does masculine mean? 50 Cent?

Michelangelo Signorille wrote a book many years ago called Life Outside, which dealt with the muscle and “straight acting” obsession in white gay male culture–and the ways in which muscle culture was used to also signify healthy and not having HIV, whether that was true or not, and I would say Phillip Brian Harper’s book Are We Not Men? is one of the closest Black gay books dealing with this issue. It was a reaction to AIDS and the more femme and androgynous aesthetic of the 1980s (like Boy George and George Michael for white gays, Sylvester, Prince and Jermaine Stewart for Black gays).

For white gay men, they often use sports imagery like “athletic” or “jock” to connote the kind of hypermasculinity most desirable. For Black and Latino gay men, that same hypermasculinity is expressed in hip-hop terms– the “thug” and “downlow (not necessarily as bisexual but as able to pass as heterosexual to other black people in public).” Most other kinds of black queer male aesthetics (afro-punks–as in punk rock, afro-centric, bohememians/neo-soul, Buppies, etc) are always trumped by hip-hop notions of masculinity.

But this study also points to the ways in which womanhood, or in this case, femininity, or one’s proximity to it, marks one as the vector of disease, as promiscuous, having dangerous sexual desires, and more deceptive of their partners. It’s similar to the ways in which women are most often blamed, and sometimes killed for the spread of HIV when straight men contract the virus.

This study points to a need to go beyond individual behavior models for preventing HIV, but undoing structures that impact people’s vulnerability or the contexts under which people are making decisions. We have to really have to find ways of confronting and challenging misogyny in our society (across sexuality and gender identities) that disempower those who see themselves or are labeled as woman, femme, or feminine.

by Anonymousreply 44210/17/2013

[quote]are you a gay man?

Yes, I am.

[quote]I dont think you sound like one.

I like the fact I'm gay. Maybe that's a new thing?

[quote]The dynamics of gay dating go beyond the visual component of being "hot". You seem to be caught up in that part. There is that huge factor of masculinity that is also involved.

I'm not sure where you got that from. But, I don't care if the guy is masculine or feminine, if he's a nice guy, I like him. And, don't project what you find attractive onto me. Just because I'm gay, doesn't mean I'm like you in anyway.

[quote]And as men, we naturally are competitive towards one another. But we can also become attracted to those who are our competition. You can read any thread here on an out gay celebrity and see how we cut each other down. There are so many conflicting realms of thought in gay courtship, so it's no surprise to me that gay relationships are usually short lived.

I, personally only know gay men who have been in relationships for 20 plus years. I actually only know coupled gay men, to be honest now that I think about it.

[quote]And to say that complaining gay men would still be single if they were straight is ridiculous. We live in a world that is designed around, yes, hetero-normative relationships. Everything in society is designed to make them prosper. Very little is intended for us, so what encouragement do we have to stay faithful to one another?

Stop being a victim and again, stop projecting.

[quote]That's why the gay marriage thing is such a big deal.

Gay marriage is not a thing.

by Anonymousreply 44310/18/2013

The preference for masculine mainstream partners is so strong that I have heard many guys say that they will not date a guy if he willfully listens to music by females. I know guys that have excluded goodlooking nice guys because they witnessed the guy singing a song by a female artist. At other times, I have heard dudes exclude potential dates because they learned the guy does not watch football or does not normally watch ESPN. I know a guy who does not find guys who wear briefs (underwear) because he thinks only feminine guys wear briefs. If you read personals ads, you will find that the criteria for being masculine are very narrow and rigid, and ostensibly, of supreme importance to a huge number of males for males.

by Anonymousreply 44410/18/2013

r442, thanks for posting that.

I think misogyny is the real reason for the subconscious desire of masculine guys. I know the study say we perceive masculine guys as less promiscuous, but I don't think that's true AT ALL. Masculine dudes are the biggest whores I have known. A lot of men that top are bisexual, and they get counted out of these studies. There are huge numbers of bi sexual men out there, we even have a lot of bisexuals on this site. They do not want relationships with gay men, they don't even acknowledge they are bi. They just want the sex, and feminine guys will give it to them, NSA. That is why there are so many single gay men.

by Anonymousreply 44510/18/2013

R444 Do these "masculine" braintrusts break up with sex partners immediately after a blowjob because now the sex partner has sucked a cock, which makes him FMN8?

by Anonymousreply 44610/18/2013

r445, misogyny is part of it, but I also think it is primal. Yes, women can be misogynists too, but women largely have the same preference for ultramasculine to macho dudes, as studies have confirmed. I have heard women express their attraction for some of the biggest jerks, but they love overt masculinity. Likewise, I have heard women deride and degrade men for not being masculine enough, a wimp, limp-wristed, a pansy. In fact, some of the strongest anti-feminine male language I hear is from women.

by Anonymousreply 44710/18/2013

r446, some of them prefer dudes who don't orally reciprocate (see Adam4Adam, Grindr, Jack'd, Craigslist, et al) or are "Total Tops" because such men are perceived to be totally masculine. The exception is that they are okay with dudes who engage in the active role during analingus.

by Anonymousreply 44810/18/2013

Those people are Fucked Up, R448, and probably evil. So, I shall end my participation in this thread by saying I'm glad I grew up in a different time. If any such self-hating trend existed in the '70s, at least no one talked about it.

by Anonymousreply 44910/18/2013

r449, it would be one thing if such guys were a tiny minority of gay/bi males, but all evidence indicates that they are a large percentage, perhaps the majority. Of course, the fact that they tend to be very closeted or do not identify as gay makes it very hard to measure their prevalence, but many studies have indicated it is a very large population.

by Anonymousreply 45010/18/2013

I have a friend, R450, who describes himself sexually as a "total bottom." He's sexually compulsive, but only wants to suck his partner's cock, and not get blown himself. I can't imagine it. If I can suck you, you can, and are going to, suck me. Or you're not coming over.

What has the world come to?

by Anonymousreply 45110/18/2013

r451, there are tons of guys like your friend. Total Tops are so desired because so many guys are total bottoms.

by Anonymousreply 45210/18/2013

When did "total" become part of the parlance? I never heard it pre-internet.

by Anonymousreply 45310/18/2013

I am sure there was always a term for the concept before the internet. Total tops have always existed, even in ancient societies. In fact, Greek and Roman homosexuality were based on one man always being the active partner, the other always passive. The same concept has always been dominant in Arab and Latin societies.

by Anonymousreply 45410/18/2013

Because only 5% of men are gay, that doesnt help. and straight guys stays straight despite all the advances from gays.

by Anonymousreply 45510/18/2013

R454, in olden days, I was "passive" to the extent that I preferred getting fucked to fucking someone else. In that sense, I was "always passive." But no one was getting their dick in me who hadn't first licked my body from head to toe. Nuh-uh.

I'm beginning to not like gay men as much as I used to.

by Anonymousreply 45610/18/2013

r443, you seem to have a view of gay dating that is based on your personal experience, which is fine. But dont call anyone a victim or homophobic because they don't share your opinions. It only makes you come off as more bitter and damaged than you already sound.

You seem to be suggesting that most gay men are coupled, and that all gay dating operates according your perceptions of it. You couldn't be more wrong. And incredibly wrong if we are discussing dating in the black community. The statistics are at r442, so there is no need to argue or name call. Most gay men choose partners based on masculinity. Black gay males are not using protection and at the same rate as white and hispanic gay males, because their partners are more masculine. Disease has spread because these partners are promiscuous, ie not exclusive with the men they are having sex with. Those are the facts.

by Anonymousreply 45710/18/2013

Graham Norton was quoted recenttly as saying that the criticism he receives for being camp tends to come from other camp men who don't perceive themselves to be camp, which I thought was interesting and sad.

by Anonymousreply 45810/18/2013

The studies show that masculine dudes especially view feminine males negatively. However, in my experience, feminine gay men are some of the most anti-feminine people I know, whether implicitly or explicitly. When they call gay men by female pronouns or calling their manhood into question, they are usually being snide and mean in order to get at the person. They also tend to also express a preference for masculine dating partners. I have a feminine gay friend who sizing up the masculinity of perspective dates and rejects guys who have the tiniest non-masculine attributes. Feminine guys are often very intolerant toward fem guys also.

by Anonymousreply 45910/18/2013

r457, those are NOT the facts. The HIV rates of white gays that are 40+ are high too, so don't go trying to pathologize black gay men. And it's so funny that all the studies group black/Latino men in together, but your little "facts" don't, presumably because you sleep with Latinos and not black men? Get the fuck outta here. I'm so over white queens trying to frame HIV as a problem that only exists in black men while they bareback to their hearts content and get away with not being counted in public studies because they can use private healthcare to remain anonymous. It's such a crock of shit. HIV is everybody's problem in this damn community.

by Anonymousreply 46010/18/2013

[quote]You seem to be suggesting that most gay men are coupled, and that all gay dating operates according your perceptions of it. You couldn't be more wrong.

[quote]you seem to have a view of gay dating that is based on your personal experience, which is fine.

Irony.

by Anonymousreply 46110/18/2013

Gay men are fucked up. They have the same needs for a primary love relationship as non-gay people, but have been warped since childhood, and are psychologically unable to bond in a healthy way with other men.

by Anonymousreply 46210/18/2013

[quote]Irony.

No, outright contradiction.

by Anonymousreply 46310/18/2013

[quote]Feminine guys are often very intolerant toward fem guys also.

Some feminine gay men who have issues with their sexuality. Some.

I make Carson Kresley look like Thor and I can assure you, I am not intolerant of any kind of gay man.

by Anonymousreply 46410/18/2013

This thread is troll-bait now. Any chance to bash gay men is a good one on the Internet...or in real life.

by Anonymousreply 46510/18/2013

For all of the nonsense that many gay men here tell us about how much they know about being gay and why being single is better, they really can be a stupid bunch.

If you take a look at history, you'll find many examples of male couplings in societies which either took no notice of homosexual relationships or even encouraged them. Point being, men are human, and humans do tend to form monogamous relationships, even if those relationships aren't strictly monogamous.

by Anonymousreply 46610/18/2013

[quote] humans do tend to form monogamous relationships, even if those relationships aren't strictly monogamous.

I think you meant to write "to form couples".

by Anonymousreply 46710/18/2013

Yes, R463, you're right. I thought about that after. It's a contradiction. I can tell there is some sort of agenda with this thread.

by Anonymousreply 46810/18/2013

r461 and r463, I DID NOT say r443 was wrong for having an opinion. I just said that the particular opinions he has on this subject are unfounded because this has been studied. I really don't care if he goes around thinking that most gay men are coupled, and that we don't pick partners based on masculinity just because he doesn't. But that is not the truth.

r460, I AM Black. You, like r443, don't need to name call and curse. Im not going to argue with you about facts. A lot of gay men have unprotected sex with multiple partners because we want masculinity more than we want relationships. That is why so many gay men are single.

by Anonymousreply 46910/18/2013

[quote] I really don't care if he goes around thinking that most gay men are coupled.

I never said most gay men are coupled. I said, "personally" which means "personal experience".

[quote]don't need to name call and curse. Im not going to argue with you about facts.

I called you a "victim". Which you are. You're also great at twisting and manipulating things around to your advantage.

by Anonymousreply 47010/18/2013

The study at R442 is so utterly illogical I don't even know where to start. It has no basis in reality. In Western society femininity is in no way associated with promiscuity. In fact, the perception is that women are less promiscuous and less interested in sex than men. Men and masculinity are associated with promiscuity. Gay men prefer masculine men for the same reasons that het women prefer masculine men. To suggest that the fear of HIV or misogyny is what drives this desire is embarrassingly ridiculous. Must we desire men with double D breast and child-bearing hips in order to not be misogynist? When I realized that the sample size consisted of 35 men, I realized why the conclusion sounds so ridiculous.

by Anonymousreply 47110/18/2013

[quote] A lot of gay men have unprotected sex with multiple partners because we want masculinity

What a bizarre statement.

by Anonymousreply 47210/18/2013

[quote]I called you a "victim". Which you are. You're also great at twisting and manipulating things around to your advantage.

I'm not the victim here. I have a clear perception of reality. I don't have to twist and manipulate anything because I can see things for what they are. Many people pretend things are what they aren't. That is what I am not, a victim of those who are in denial and create fake world to live in.

by Anonymousreply 47310/18/2013

R472 - yeah, that's what I thought too.

I am a gay man.

I want masculinity.

Therefore, I have unprotected sex with multiple partners.

HUH? Bizarre is being kind.

by Anonymousreply 47410/18/2013

Very few of the gay men I know are single. They are all in long term relationships.

by Anonymousreply 47510/18/2013

One of the quack rightwing theories is that feminine men seek sex with men as a way to bolster their deficient masculinity. The theories claims effeminate men hope to attain vicarious masculinity by sexual congress with masculine men.

by Anonymousreply 47610/18/2013

r476

How do they explain blouses?

by Anonymousreply 47710/18/2013

uh, blouses?

by Anonymousreply 47810/18/2013

r472, bitch please! We might not be willing to fuck raw, you have got to be kidding yourself if you don't think there are large numbers of gay men in relationships who are actively looking for dudes who are more masculine or have bigger dicks.

Every week we have someone posting a thread about their man cheating on them. And Im talking about those who aren't in open relationships. There are people in this very thread who have said they won't date fem gays! Come on now.

by Anonymousreply 47910/18/2013

R479 must not feel he's "masculine" enough. When I was on permacruise, it was always to find a man who was better-looking than I thought I was. I guess "masculine" is what R479 and "large numbers, etc." feel is missing in them.

by Anonymousreply 48010/18/2013

[quote]When I was on permacruise, it was always to find a man who was better-looking than I thought I was.

Don't project your issues on me, hussy.

Exhibit A:

by Anonymousreply 48110/18/2013

r479

Bitch please, yourself. The statement I quoted linked bareback sex to a quest for masculinity. If that's not what the poster intended, (s)he needs to learn to write better.

by Anonymousreply 48210/18/2013

Exhibit B:

by Anonymousreply 48310/18/2013

Most men are too selfish to put in the work for a relationship. When they are with a woman it is the woman who puts in the work. Women stay together because they know how to stay together (it's easy for us).

Men can buy someone else (usually younger or from a refugee nationality).

by Anonymousreply 48410/18/2013

[quote] I think it is the fear that deep inside they feel that really connecting with another gay man is impossible. We have no real role models.

and often mock the few good role models we have.

by Anonymousreply 48510/21/2013

Time and time again, I hear bi/gay guys express that they are not attracted to most gay guys because most openly gay guys are not very masculine. Whenever a masculine or macho bi or gay guy comes on the scene, everyone is interested in him because he carries himself like a mainstream dude, a bro. They want a dude who is all-man and Alpha Male, a dude with swag. Today, guys want masculinity in a date, not tired stereotypes.

by Anonymousreply 48611/01/2013

misery

by Anonymousreply 48711/20/2013

[quote] Today, guys want masculinity in a date

Why can't you just comment on what YOU want and leave the generalisations out of it.

One thing I've noticed since doing the online dating thing is that there are people into all different kinds - they're often ridiculously specific, but nonetheless, it's significant.

by Anonymousreply 48811/20/2013

TODAY guys want to get laid. Tomorrow they want someone who can cook a great breakfast.

by Anonymousreply 48911/20/2013

Wow, I forgot about this thread. I am the OP.

I think if I had to pick one of my own poll options, it would be this one:

[quote] They want a relationship but (ageism) they are repulsed by their peers

Except it's not just ageism. It's look-ism and masculin-ism also. Guys who are 40 and ok-looking and kind of gay acting, all want a man who is 32 and "hot" and, choose your euphemism: straightacting / masculine / alpha male / not a fag / etc. Or worse, they want an even younger guy and do not get aroused sexually by men within a decade of their own age. Sad!

In other words - they reject other males whom an honest appraiser would say are "in their league" love-wise, relationship-wise. They want the much-harder-to-attain commodity that almost everyone else wants. The 32-year-old alpha stud, or the hot lithe young boy with the pretty face.

I guess I'm thankful that I fell in love with a guy my own age, early 40s, who is about as handsome as me (objectively) looks wise. And vice versa. I don't mean to be smug, I just see so much longing out there but a lot of it seems set up to fail. I see a lot of gay men who are single and wanting love, but they fixate on the unattainable. And like I said in my OP, I see potential to put some of them together, but they would recoil in mutual disgust. I understand about the rareness of chemistry but when a "6 or 7" looks-wise keeps chasing after younger and/or hotter looking and/or more masculine "9" types, the most favored and desired ones who could get a new boyfriend instantly just by existing and showing up at some random social event, I kind of stop having sympathy.

by Anonymousreply 49011/20/2013

Yep, masculinity is the most sought-after trait, and to most men seeking men, openly gay men are rarely masculine in the mainstream since of the term. I know a gay dude who says he doesn't date gay men because he is only attracted to "men who act like men," who "know nothing about Lady Gaga, calling guys girls/she, or wearing speedos," but "watch a lot of ESPN, have swagger, and say 'bro/dude' a lot."

by Anonymousreply 49111/20/2013

Most are narcissistic egomaniacs.

by Anonymousreply 49211/20/2013

Many guys are afraid of "settling" for less (roll eyes here).

by Anonymousreply 49311/20/2013

Because we have not been raised with the societal expectations to settle down and behave in unnatural (monogamous) ways.

It's more fun to be single and have casual sex.

Why be in a relationship when you can have your pick of a new boy in Hell's Kitchen every night?

by Anonymousreply 49411/20/2013

I must apologize again for all my shortcomings. Compared to yours, however, they are insignificant.

by Anonymousreply 49511/20/2013

I think the most compelling and rational proposal so far to this "question" (even though nobody has cited data supporting the premise that gay men are more likely to single than straight men) is the smaller dating pool.

It is just a lot less of a chance that a gay man is going to stumble upon Mr. Right during his day to day life in a natural, organic way. They are forced to find each other through websites, gay clubs, and occasional blind dates organized by a mutual friend.

Those just aren't very conducive scenarios for two people to really strike a chemistry. I'm not saying that it does't happen, but most relationships begin at school, work, or parties; and gay people just have a lot less potential mates in those environments than straight people.

It's purely a numbers game.

by Anonymousreply 49611/21/2013

I don't now why it's taken months to get to the masculinity issue....but that is the problem. There are not enough true/total tops.

You know the drill...two bottoms, one has to become versatile, neither gets what they want...open up the relationship...end of story..end of relationship.

The community is virtually topless...a bad hand that nature dealt.

The trend towards getting ripped, I suppose, is an attempt to look more masculine, but being a top, is more than abs.....and being a top, is more than a position.

And also, if you haven't read 283's comment, please do.

by Anonymousreply 49711/21/2013

I can agree partially with R497's comment, but I think part of the problem is this concept of "True Tops".

I am top/versatile, and in the single years before meeting my partner, I met more than a few men who had weirdly rigid notions about the whole "Top" and "Bottom" thing, as translated to "Man" and "Not Man." When they learned I was semi-versatile, they were disappointed. "Oh, I thought you were a Top." They meant, I thought you were a Man, and a Man does not get fucked, ever. You have just told me you are not a Man.

Seriously, that was the undertone. Men from certain cultures seemed to do this more than others.

Their loss. Being sometimes versatile made me 10x better in the Top role. And I'm partnered with a guy who is strong natured, Alpha/decision maker outside of bed, but loves to be dominated in bed. I think people who know us socially would be surprised to know our private sexual dynamics. You really can't tell what a person is like sexually from their behavior in general. Some people are constant in personality (sex and non-sex situations), but others use sex to tap into alter egos that don't get expressed otherwise.

by Anonymousreply 49811/21/2013

Judging from my personal gay/bi friends, associates, and observations, I agree that the quest for a totally masculine partner is the number one reason. There is a reason why studies show that "masculinity" is the number one sought trait of men seeking men, and gay/bi men are not shy about asserting that they are seeking masculine partners above all else. It's everywhere in the personals ads and conversations. The problem is that the most masculine guys as defined by the widespread societal definition are usually closeted, bisexuals who prefer relationships with women instead of men, or heterosexual men. Those "masculine men" are not good candidates for same-sex relationships. At the same time, gay male culture displays attributes that are judged to be very unmasculine, whether it's terms and language, clothing, music tastes, artistic taste, or just its proximity to transgenderism. It's as if gay culture grooms openly gay men to develop attributes that are repulsive to large numbers of bisexual and gay men, thereby undercutting the potential for more male relationships.

by Anonymousreply 49911/21/2013

I think the TOP (total TOP) versus Bottom thing is a distinct issue from the masculine versus feminine issue.

by Anonymousreply 50011/21/2013

But is being masculine a question of what you are (ESPN swaggering) or what you aren't (Chair of the Helen Lawson Fan Club.)

I don't quite know what masculine is. I look at the guys I am attracted to (as people not fuck puppets) and they're generally laid back, low key guys, but I don't call that masculine, I call it laid back and low key. I find excessive personalities exhausting, whether it's an alpha male type or a screaming queen, and I find excessive personalities embarrassing as partners. No interest in them however they manifest.

My point is there's a whole range of potentially masculine behaviours, soI am curious how other people define it and if they really know what they mean.

I still think people define masculine as not reaching for smelling salts over Judy Garland.

by Anonymousreply 50111/21/2013

You have a good point R501. Laid back and low key don't always translate to (hyper)masculinity, and yet those are the types I'm most attracted to too.

I could never date someone who is e-ffeminate though.

by Anonymousreply 50211/21/2013

Such shallowness if this is the case, this need for "masculinity" as being the number one factor for a partner.

It's going to be a long, lonely life.

by Anonymousreply 50311/21/2013

I'm embarrassed by most of the extremes in the gay community (which I don't think are the majority.) But the extreme left politicos, the body nazis, the ruthlessly stylin'... they all put me off. I think that's may be part of the emphasis on "masculine"; at my office the straight men I find attractive (just to look at, not pining for what I can't have) I also find to be pretty drama free. I wish I could meet more gay men like them... just drama free and genuine... the rest is negotiable.

by Anonymousreply 50411/21/2013

R504, I only know straight men who are filled, FILLED, with drama. And, when they don't have it, they seek it out.

by Anonymousreply 50511/21/2013

Well, we all have different experiences, R505.

Anyway, all of it still boils down to insecurity and expectations (part of the problem with anybody who struggles to find a mate, unless they're also really unattractive) and in gay men, some residual shame about being gay.

by Anonymousreply 50611/21/2013

Good point, R506. But, if you're secure and feel no shame towards yourself, then why do "extremes" within the gay community embarrass you?

by Anonymousreply 50711/21/2013

I think guys perceive that "laid back" or "chill" is masculine. After all, such terms are very popular in personals ads and are often accompanied with explicit references to masculinity. While some seek the Alpha Male type, most people think laid back guys are pretty masculine too in a more subdued way. A guy kicking back and drinking a beer while listening to modern rock or shooting hoops with some buds is not necessarily Alpha Male, but it is quite masculine.

by Anonymousreply 50811/21/2013

Also, people tend to equate "drama free" or laid back with being masculine because there is this perception that attractive males are not very dramatic, emotionally expressive, or high maintenance. In contrast, people think feminine guys tend to be bitchy, talkative, and high maintenance, which we know is not always the case. There are sweet and quiet feminine dudes out there who are laid back. So, I definitely think "laid back" and "chill" are consistent with the male gender stereotype of masculinity.

by Anonymousreply 50911/21/2013

So, gay men want this?

by Anonymousreply 51011/21/2013

[quote] A guy kicking back and drinking a beer while listening to modern rock

This made me laugh. I hate those ka-weens who are always blasting Chuck Berry.

by Anonymousreply 51111/21/2013

I want a guy that's laid back. I don't want a guy that's intelligent, or has opinions, or, has taste - in anything, not music, movies, sports...I want a guy who sits on the couch picking lint out of his hairy belly button. Hasn't showered for days because he's so laid back, he's cemented to the couch. Laid back guys are the closest thing to straight, and real straight men are essentially Jim Belushi. That's the epitome of masculine. That's what I want.

by Anonymousreply 51211/21/2013

R507, I don't mean extreme type people embarrass me in general, I meant they would embarrass me as a partner because I just don't dig people who need to be the star of the floorshow.

I think people often confuse being themselves with some sort of guarantee that everybody else has to find it agreeable. People should be who they are to make themselves happy, of course, but that's where it ends. Personally I prefer moderation in all things. As I say, just by nature.

by Anonymousreply 51311/21/2013

[quote] javascript:submitPost();

Laidback guys prefer simple names. I'll call you Bob.

by Anonymousreply 51411/21/2013

I guess, R513. Different life experiences I suppose. But, there is nothing about a gay person that embarrasses me - outrageous or not.

R513, are you openly gay in every facet of your life? At work, to all friends, to family, in public?

by Anonymousreply 51511/21/2013

who is Chuck Berry?

by Anonymousreply 51611/21/2013

R515, out everywhere on earth since I was twenty year old, so you can stop your closet case fishing games.

People actually can just have different perspectives on things without some epic reason, dear.

by Anonymousreply 51711/21/2013

Single, R517?

by Anonymousreply 51811/21/2013

I just recently celebrated my 50th birthday by going out and bar hopping,something I hadnt done in 3 years.The last time I went out I had a crewcut and goatee,wore jeans and a plain shirt,and although I acted the exact same way I always have(slightly queeny),I was hit on quite a few times.On my birthday I wore a screaming red shirt with a huge rhinestone brooch( I was channeling the 80s!),silk pants and I had lost the facial hair and grown my hair back out,and needless to say,though I had lots of fun and conversations,not one person hit on me.Again,I acted the same way I always have,so what was the difference?Could it have been something as superficial as my clothes? Theres always been "theme queens" in the gay world,thats nothing new,but in my opinion the labeling is dramatically more noticeable that in the past.Everyone assumes because Im 6 ft and wide shouldered,I MUST be a top or a "bear".Labeling in the gay world is far more prevelant than straights labeling me.Seems like the more acceptance we gain from the straight world, the more we lose amongst ourselves.

by Anonymousreply 51911/21/2013

Partnered happily for 15 years, married for two, our income, dick sizes and favorite recipes are none of your business.

Anything else before the checklist is completed?

by Anonymousreply 52011/21/2013

r519

One night isn't enough to tell if the clothes were the issue. Do several more nights out in different venues.

by Anonymousreply 52111/21/2013

Is he a laid back bro?

by Anonymousreply 52211/21/2013

R520, if you're already married, why do you care about meeting other men? Why do you even notice other men at the office to even comment? Is it an open relationship? Are you bullshitting?

by Anonymousreply 52311/21/2013

Yeah, we all totally stop noticing other men when we partner up.

Do you breathe unassisted?

by Anonymousreply 52411/21/2013

Lies...all lies.

by Anonymousreply 52511/21/2013

I think the internet and apps have made people pickier in dating. For instance, so many ads spend more time explicitly stating what type of person they are NOT seeking than the type they seek. I see some profiles with literally lists of things they people find unattractive, and the lists are very specific, tedious. If someone is asserting they are only attracted to muscular bisexual Black football players who are vegan, they are going to exclude the vast majority of bisexual/gay men from consideration. To say nothing, of the huge number of guys seeing "straight dudes only, no gays."

by Anonymousreply 52611/21/2013

The person saying there aren't enough total tops out there was really onto something.

by Anonymousreply 52711/21/2013

R526, yes, that's - in a nutshell - why I don't bother with Grindr or Skruff or any of those apps at all, period.

There is NO spontaneity with the queens who troll those apps. None. They want a fantasy. And even if you are their fantasy, they will trick with you once, and then it's on to the next hook-up.

Is there a point, thus, to this list of demands? Boring.

by Anonymousreply 52811/21/2013

Because they refuse to grow up. So many gays have a Peter Pan Complex, but not in the attractive way.

I've pretty much given up on guys around my age, because so many of them fit into this. I'm now looking for someone in their early 40s who I'm physically attracted to, can make me laugh, has something to say for themselves, is average build but won't let themselves get fat, has a hedonistic streak but also some cultural interests, can dress well or at least not freak when I do that for them, can cuddle and knows how to kiss well and make love.

I know it sounds like a lot that I want in a man but how many of you fuckers would fit that mould? Quite a lot I'd imagine. Men like that are massively common in the gay scene. But so many of that type want to fuck a different twink every night (or enter into a ridiculous dad/son 'relationship'), and so I remain single.

by Anonymousreply 52911/21/2013

To paraphrase Jesus, "It's not for everybody!"

by Anonymousreply 53011/21/2013

h

by Anonymousreply 53111/21/2013

Marriage isn't available in all states, so naturally many gay men appear to be single.

by Anonymousreply 53211/21/2013

The 7 big problems gay men have with gay men In new film 20MALEGAYNYC, gay New Yorkers explain why they don’t identify with other gay men – here the director examines the top seven reasons

‘If you were to just say gay guys, an image pops into my head that I’m not so fond of.’

When we talk about ‘annoying gay men’ or hating a stereotype, we’re really talking about the way a gay man is expressing his gender, not his sexuality.

Most homophobes, gay or not, don’t care as much about a man having sex with another man as the typically feminine characteristics he displays.

Yes, there are obviously still too many people who take issue with homosexuality at its core, but the more pervasive homophobia (which has seeped into the gay community) is one associated with a man acting in any way that is traditionally/ stereotypically not masculine. Which brings us to:

‘Masculine men tend to be attracted to masculine men, and feminine men seem to be attracted to masculine men as well.’

Gay men (and women across the spectrum) typically have a healthier balance of masculine and feminine traits than many heterosexual men.

Why don’t we celebrate this? Because a lot of people are put off by a man walking or talking like a woman. Why? Because many men have been taught to internalize a discomfort with feminine behavior.

Being feminine means being weak. Acting like a ‘pussy’ is treated like an inherently negative thing (so is acting like a ‘dick,’ but in a different way). So many of us openly prefer and seek out more ‘masculine’ guys.

Sexual attraction cannot be totally controlled, but this belittling of femininity needs to go.

‘Then you move to New York and you go to the Boiler Room and everyone’s getting that attention.’

Gay men in big cities have it easy in a lot of ways that we take for granted, but it can often be overwhelming to feel like such a small rainbow fish in a big queer pond.

We want to feel different in some way, so we take these ideas of a stereotypical gay man that have been imposed on us by straight culture and try to distance ourselves from said stereotypes by putting others down.

It can often feel like there’s no community at all – just the same strange, photogenic faces at the same clubs every weekend. That is a community, though, and we should embrace it.

‘I just thought I hated gay people, but I think that I really just don’t like people in general.’

The gay man’s equivalent of a post-breakup ‘I hate men’ is often ‘I hate gay guys’.

I’ve said it, my friends have said it, most of us have thought it. We blame relationship troubles on the fact that ALL GAY MEN ARE SLUTS AND NO ONE WANTS TO BE IN A RELATIONSHIP WITH ME.

Is this really true, though? Probably not. It’s simpler to take out one’s frustrations on everyone else than to accept that maybe the right guy just hasn’t come along yet.

Not all gay men only want to sleep around (and those who do are certainly allowed/ encouraged to). Not all gay men are scared of long term commitment. And not all gay man are like your – or my – ex boyfriends/ hookups/ sort-of-boyfriends/ never-called-it-anything-which-is-why-it-fizzled-outs.

‘It means more than just your sexuality.’

We still let decades-old stereotypes define our culture and sense of selves. When so many men in the gay community still assume that a well-dressed man with an interest in musical theater must be gay, we’re holding ourselves back.

It’s hard enough so much of the world still perpetuates stereotypes that kept so many of us in the closet for so long; we as gay men don’t need to perpetuate them ourselves.

‘It’s a way of seeming more masculine, of like, “Oh I don’t identify with those boa wearing gay guys.”’

We all know bullies are just insecure and put others down for displaying qualities the bullies fear in themselves, so why is bullying a problem within the gay community?

Because gay men, like all people, will always be insecure.

Because some of us want to be the cool gay guy who can hang out with his straight bros and laugh at the flamboyant ninety-pound boy in a tank top and heels. Because w

by Anonymousreply 53311/22/2013

watch this

by Anonymousreply 53411/22/2013

Masc for masc

by Anonymousreply 53511/23/2013

I don't think you can separate the homophobe's problem with men taking it up the ass from disdain for non-traditionally masculine gender display. They both boil down to the ideology that women are lesser than men and that to "voluntarily" give up one's "masculinity" is abhorrent.

by Anonymousreply 53611/23/2013

My friend does not hesitate to say he's looking for someone perfect: perfect body, perfect abs, tall, must be not just masculine but UBER-masculine, and a complete and total top. He will settle for nothing less.

As for himself, he's cute but has a little bit of a pouch in front and he's balding on top. He's also extremely critical of other men and has rejected many potential suitors for virtually no reason whatsoever.

He's 42 years old.

by Anonymousreply 53711/23/2013

r537

Is he really looking, though, or does he just trout out that credo when questioned on his love life?

by Anonymousreply 53811/23/2013

*trot

by Anonymousreply 53911/23/2013

Yes, R538, he's really looking. He mostly dates guys who identify as bisexual because he does not view gay guys as being masculine (for all the reasons previously outlined in this thread). He hasn't dated anyone seriously in about two years and has grown increasingly cynical, lately even talking about "going straight" and marrying a female because he said he does not believe gay men are capable of real relationships (and that a woman, unlike a man, will take care of him when he gets older).

None of this is meant to paint him in a bad light -- quite the contrary. Yes, he's completely self-absorbed, but he also will take an old coat out of his closet and give it to a homeless guy he constantly passes on the street on his way home from work (as he did a couple of weeks ago). He's just insanely picky where it comes to dating, but truthfully, aren't we all in a way?

by Anonymousreply 54011/23/2013

Not like that, R540. There's something going on there, don't know what.

by Anonymousreply 54111/23/2013

Flesh changes! Go a LITTLE deeper!

by Anonymousreply 54211/23/2013

Its going to be sad when all these guys who are extremely picky and akin to girls in their teens with a princess fantasy looking for their "Prince Charming" end up an old hag themselves.

I learned from my girl straight friends I went to college with. Develop your own career so you can be independent and start dating around. Once you find a nice, stable guy with a good head on his shoulders whom you're attracted to, nab 'em before its too late.

The ones that were super pretty sorostitutes who had their pick of guys when they were in college that are still single are losing their looks and now wondering why they're single in their mid 30's.

The 'clock' doesn't tick for us gay guys... but I see my older gay friends who I could tell that they were the hot guy back then are suddenly running out of options, trying extremely hard to stay young and wonder what happened when the "oneS that got away" they themselves happy.

by Anonymousreply 54311/23/2013

Jesus, it's not like pairing off is a guarantee of happiness and security in old age.

by Anonymousreply 54411/23/2013

[534} That video embarrassed me. That ACCENT is obnoxious. All of these gay young men have that affected, self absorbed, grating accent: "Whut-eh-vuuuuuuh!" That is so off-putting. There is no maturity, masculinity or dignity in it. That accent needs to fade out of the gay community faster than cowboy hats.

by Anonymousreply 54511/24/2013

indeed r545

by Anonymousreply 54611/24/2013

True R545. It's bizarre how so many young gay guys are sexually turned off by the "like TOTally vapid fagboi, whatEVVuh!" accent and persona - but they adopt it for themselves anyway.

by Anonymousreply 54711/25/2013

Reading some of these threads, like the guy who thinks he deserves $50,000 to break up with his boyfriend of 6 years, from said BF, etc., makes me more confident of my decision to be single.

My cousin just divorced her hubby at age 70. I think of her when people talk about wanting someone's company when they're old. Nit so nice if you hate the person.

by Anonymousreply 54811/25/2013

I cannot make any sense of what any of them are trying say. It's a bunch of opinions, although there seemed to be a lot of unanimity.

Whatever their voices, they sounded nervous and a bit defensive. I have no idea why. Being on camera is hard for most mortals. Voices tend to sound higher and more tentative, plaintive when you're nervous. I don't know, don't think that video really tells anybody anything except what those guys said in the moment. A collection of opinions isn't a documentary. Usually there's some expert opinion or analysis to try to put it in some kind of context.

Badly made film.

by Anonymousreply 54911/25/2013

I have noticed that a lot of feminine guys tend to be the most negative toward other feminine guys. I hear so many fem guys saying they don't want to be with a "fag" or a "queen." They are the ones often saying effemophobic stuff about other males.

by Anonymousreply 55011/25/2013

"Ewwww, sex with one of my Siss-Terzz?! Puh-LEAZE."

by Anonymousreply 55111/26/2013

I only know partnered gay men. Huh.

by Anonymousreply 55211/26/2013

They can't stop being whores. End of Discussion

by Anonymousreply 55311/29/2013

The widespread and strong preference for very masculine guys is indeed the top reason. Gay culture effeminizes gay men, at least those who choose to live in that culture. The most masculine gay and bisexual men tend not to be very good marriage material because they are closeted or in deep denial. Feminine openly gay guys dislike feminine men more than anyone, and are looking for that big strong Alpha Male jock to sweep them off their feet. It is a cruel paradox.

by Anonymousreply 55411/30/2013

r554

Have you tried butching it up?

by Anonymousreply 55511/30/2013

I'm not single. My husband just hasn't acknowledged our marriage yet.

by Anonymousreply 55612/01/2013

The most desired trait of men seeking men is "Masculinity." It's overtly required in most personals ads and conversations I have with gay and bi guys. I hear gay and bi guys express a desire for a masculine guy who is stereotypically manly in his athleticism, interest in football, music tastes, hobbies, and manner of speech, dress, and walk. I hear guys say they are not attracted to stereotypical gays who have "gay accents," listen to female music, don't watch football, are into fashion, call males by female pronouns, or are catty. Some of their requirements are reasonable and just part of subjective tastes, but for some, there is a certain amount of intolerance toward any guy who is not strictly mainstream in his masculinity. For instance, a guy who doesn't watch ESPN everyday might be eliminated from consideration from some guys because it might be viewed as a sign that a dude is femmy. I sense that a lot of bi/gay dudes want the fantasy football player, fireman, bicurious straight bro, or bisexual Marine to the point of waiting alone for a long time for it to be reality.

by Anonymousreply 55712/01/2013

R557, they don't just wait along for a long time - they wait forever and die alone. That's where the self-hatred comes in.

They hate the gender unconformist within themselves, and so they hate it in others, or where they peceive it - because it reminds them of themselves, or because they just hate everything and anything nonconformist.

Really, these personal ads and hook-up apps are a complete waste of time for those who are looking to meet someone dateable. Someone fuckable, yes, if those avenues work for you. But someone dateable? Sure, if what you are dying for is a bunch of aging gay men who have been alone for 20 years who possess an unnegotiable list of requirements as long as your arm.

by Anonymousreply 55812/02/2013

There goes the erroneous application of the term self-loathing again.

by Anonymousreply 55912/23/2013

Read through the threads on DL and ask yourself that question again. If you do not know the answer, please find the nearest mental institution, you aren't fit to live on your own.

by Anonymousreply 56012/23/2013

The longer you are single, the more self absorbed and selfish you become. Compromising, accommodating, and just being kind and respectful of another persons needs on a daily basis becomes harder. I see a lot of men who say they want to be with someone but are not willing to alter ANYTHING in their lives-right down to small household details.

by Anonymousreply 56112/23/2013

I remember being 18 and telling a friend that if I was still single at 30 I would probably commit suicide. I'll be 50 in a few months and now my preference is to be alone. Over the years I have had it both ways. I have been alone and wished I could be with someone and I have been with someone and wished I could be alone. The former is much easier to handle.

by Anonymousreply 56212/23/2013

Finally, a thread wherein people are bring honest and open and not caring about what is politically correct. From my observation and experience, most bisexual and gay men are not in relationships with men because they are only attracted to very masculine males. There are some very masculine bisexual and gay men out there, but most of them are closeted, on the DL, or just plain not seeking relationships with men. I hear so many bi/gay men express frustration at an inability to find truly masculine men who date men. They want guys who act like mainstream dudes, love/play sports, fit in with their bros, and have no hint of femininity. Gay culture doesnt help with it ls portrayals of gay men who are anti-sports, and into cattiness, Bravo tv, divas, drag, speedos, and incorrect gender pronouns. A lot of them give up the search and Marry women.

by Anonymousreply 56312/27/2013

Can't speak for anyone else, but I just kept running into loser after loser after loser until I decided to give up and focus on myself. Clearly, there was a pattern there and I had to find my role in it. In the meantime, I'm giving men a wide berth. Learning to live with myself first.

by Anonymousreply 56412/27/2013

Because being in a relationship is really fucking difficult, and a lot of straight couples are only still together because of the societal/social pressure to be. Two men don't have that force pushing their relationship.

by Anonymousreply 56512/27/2013

It's my opinion that all the recent gay marriage rulings across the country adds another societal pressure for some of us to start getting hitched.

Yes, I understand that as gays, we don't have to 'conform' to hetero-normative definitions. Gay men are still free to find whatever relationships suit them - whether it be casual flings, sexfriends, your 1-3 month date & go, long term relationships or marriage but with the opportunity for us to tie the knot... well - our straight friends will start pushing for us to join them in their happiness or misery too.

by Anonymousreply 56612/29/2013

l

by Anonymousreply 56712/30/2013

Unrealistic expectations and fear of intimacyMany gay men want the perfect man and generally will not settle for less. It's not so much they want a relationship as they really want an excuse (subconsciously) or justification to be single. Potential suitors are not handsome, don't have a great body, are too old (though never too young), don't make enough money, don't have a beautiful place, etc. They don't examine themselves. Even many of those will end a relationship over the dumbest issues or they are so unforgiving of mistakes. They LOOK for excuses to end the relationship in their quest for someone better. Then then bemoan they are all alone and have no one. They whine they can't find anyone. The years march on and the opportunities are much fewer. They are age 50 and single, but want a 25 year old man like many men around their age range, who too bemoan being single and alone. When the opportunity comes, likely by a man within their age range, they do everything they can to sabotage it. They are willing to suffer anything to obtain a youthful golden boy, unto financial exploitation and humiliation. Then they turn around and bitch that they've been exploited. They are so deluded and it's tragic. They need to face life as it is and only then will they begin to find contentment.

by Anonymousreply 56812/31/2013

r568

Please learn to divide your comments into paragraphs.

by Anonymousreply 56912/31/2013

Someone make a sequel thread

by Anonymousreply 57001/01/2014

The effimancy of so many gay men is repugnant

by Anonymousreply 57101/01/2014

Thank you [R-569], I will do so. I appreciate your pointing this out to me.

by Anonymousreply 57201/01/2014

I am bisexual, so I have options. I was open to the idea of dating a dude, but I never found any dudes that I was attracted to who wanted a real longterm monogamous relationship. When it comes to dudes, I am only attraced to Masculine athletic types. I just don't find a guy who is into Lady Gaga, musicals, calling guys dudes "girl" to be attractive. I married a woman.

by Anonymousreply 57301/04/2014

[quote]When it comes to dudes, I am only attraced to Masculine athletic types. I just don't find a guy who is into Lady Gaga, musicals, calling guys dudes "girl" to be attractive.

Maybe these types of gay men weren't attracted to your self-loathing ass. Dude.

by Anonymousreply 57401/04/2014

Bisexual men are the worst.

by Anonymousreply 57501/04/2014

What is so self loathing about what he said.? He likes MEN not some chick with a dick!

by Anonymousreply 57601/04/2014

I do find it interesting that he's attracted to women as well but doesn't like femmy qualities in men.

I know a male couple - one gay, one bi, and the gay one is flamboyant (he even has a lisp). That makes more sense to me than the bi guy being into butch guys and femme women, but I suppose sense needn't have anything to do with it.

by Anonymousreply 57701/04/2014

The asshole is self-loathing is because he thinks all gay men are 'chicks with dicks'. If he couldn't date a masculine gay 'dude', then obviously there aren't any out there. Fucking idiots.

by Anonymousreply 57801/04/2014

R577, you make no sense!

by Anonymousreply 57901/04/2014

R578, is a nelly boy

by Anonymousreply 58001/04/2014

r579

Perhaps you're joking but people often have types. I assumed bi guys would have similar things they find attractive in men and women.

by Anonymousreply 58101/04/2014

Or trolls like r583

by Anonymousreply 58401/11/2014

R583, exactly!

by Anonymousreply 58501/12/2014

As a gay man in NYC, I find relationship building a total waste of time. I embrace being single.

by Anonymousreply 58601/29/2014

Yeah R581, unicorns too.

by Anonymousreply 58701/29/2014

That is some really striking anecdotal evidence, R561. You're a real Margaret Mead!

by Anonymousreply 58801/29/2014

^^I meant R563.

by Anonymousreply 58901/29/2014

Assuming most of the posters are American, all this desire for "masculine" men and to be thought of as such is really a product of cultural homophobia. It's the same desire of black people of a certain era wanting to change the colour of their skin.

Not that gay men are innately effeminate or incapable of exhibiting traits that are widely accepted as masculine but they've gotten to you, the homophobes, they've gotten under your skin, set your own agenda for you, turned you against each other, and have made you feel inferior. You're now doing their work for them.

What you're failing to recognise is that ALL men, gay or straight, struggle with the narrowly defined notions of masculinity. Far better to be a well-rounded human capable of empathy and a rich, emotional life capable of reasoned thinking and putting your attention and concern on others. The most important trait associated with masculinity is confidence and the ability to define things for yourself.

Be yourself. Do what you want to do. Be passionate about the choices you make in life, commit to them and be loyal to others. Who cares about football and board shorts? Those people are struggling inside as well. Recognise ther humanity, have compassion for others and you'll be fine.

Whether you grow old with somebody or embrace the love that is around you as you age is no matter - nobody knows the future. For myself, I invest my time and energy in my 11 nieces and nephews (incl. 3 great nieces and nephews). I look to have a meaningful impact on their lives. If a compatible partner comes along, great, but after 17 years with my previous partner I have no interest in settling with just anybody. Mostly I think aid want to be with someone I can totally enjoy music with. :)

by Anonymousreply 59001/29/2014

R590 I want to date you. We're probably on different sides of the globe, which makes that difficult, but the thought is there.

by Anonymousreply 59101/29/2014

Maybe it's because gay men are more pervert.

by Anonymousreply 59201/29/2014

Well thanks R591, I'm in London. Where are you?

by Anonymousreply 59301/29/2014

OK, time to get in one last comment before this thread maxes out. I'm the OP and it's been interesting to read the responses. The poll also, results are fairly evenly spread. Thanks everyone.

by Anonymousreply 59401/29/2014

r590 You are great. That is good advice for gay as well as straight men and women.

by Anonymousreply 59501/29/2014

It is great to see people drop the pretext of political correctness and honestly identify the biggest obstacle to male same-sex relationships: the lack of attractive masculine partners. The overwhelming majority of people that are attracted to males, are attracted to conventionally masculine men. Masculinity is the factor in why people who find males attractive find them so. Even attractive physical attributes are correlated with perceived masculinity, whether it is square jaws or buff muscles. The problem for bi/gay men is that gay culture emasculates Same-sex males, tries to get them to embrace things that most find unmasculine, whether it is music taste, movie taste, or an aversion to male team sports. That unfortunately, makes most openly gay men to be rather unmasculine in their public presentation. This also makes them less attractive to other same-sex oriented males. Masculinity is the key factor.

by Anonymousreply 59702/06/2014

Make new thread

by Anonymousreply 59805/05/2014

I'm from the UK and myself a gay man. To point out the true some men are afraid of long term relationship some just want to have fun (sex). But there are a few of us that actually want a relationship but seem to never got the chance or to afraid to ever go to clubs online dating because we have a self confident problem. Through out my life I feel I was an ugly person but I did give clubs and bars a go I found I would be standing there all by myself feeling scared and I do try to make contact but no one ever took notice or even look at me. My confident lower and same with online dating my profile would be there for years and no one will make the first move. So I decided to make the first move and chat but no answer back. Soooooo I gave up on relationship and see no point in trying anymore. In a way the Gay coummunity can be cruel. So I just work and never thought of relationship again and at my age right now I know it not going to happen. So maybe this explain some of your question. :)

by Anonymousreply 59907/27/2014

Said many times already but it's hard for gay men to be in a relationship because it is hard to be gay. Gay men who came of age in the 70s and 80s are still wrestling with internalized homophobia and the feelings of being "abnormal." Gay is shameful and should only be acted on in meaningless, fleeting covert sexual interactions. A gay relationship brings it into the light and brands us with a scarlet "G." Psychologically, it's easier to be untethered... but more lonely.

by Anonymousreply 60007/27/2014
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