I participated in the Forum, and am tempted to take the Advanced Course or maybe another follow-up. Have you taken the Advanced Course or another class? How was it?
|by Lulu||reply 49||03/14/2013|
here we go again.
|by Lulu||reply 1||03/31/2012|
Along with the college and Tom Welling threads, it's Homecoming Weekend.
|by Lulu||reply 2||03/31/2012|
Give them all your money, thank them, and go home unchanged. It'll save time.
|by Lulu||reply 3||03/31/2012|
What is this a cult?
|by Lulu||reply 4||03/31/2012|
|by Lulu||reply 5||03/31/2012|
It's kind of like multi-level marketing, isn't it? Except the marketing is internal, to oneself, as well. One keeps finding new issues that may be addressed by a new Landmark course that addresses that every issue and plants the seed for your next one. They spread it from there.
Kind of related. Has anyone heard of ISA (sorry, can't remember what the acronym stands for). It sounded similar to Forum except that it seemed to require more commitments.
|by Lulu||reply 6||03/31/2012|
|by Lulu||reply 7||04/01/2012|
My friend got involved with Landmark. It absolutely has cult like aspects. Once they rope you in they try to keep you. I went to one meeting with him at this building where they had several classes going on at different times.
People were milling around in the lounge area talking and they were SO in to the program and they were so eccentric, so odd and gullible, It was just fascinating to observe.
When he came out, I told him it was scarey and he needed to stop going. He appreciated my intervention. He also ran out of money.,
|by Lulu||reply 8||04/01/2012|
It's EST....Werner Erhard (John Paul Rosenberg) one of the biggest snake oil salesmen in history
You deserve to be bilked if you buy into his bullshit
|by Lulu||reply 9||04/01/2012|
Whatever happened to that old feel good extended weekend seminar known as "est," which developed a "cult following" that included celebrities like Valerie Harper and John Denver?
Well it got bigger and better, at least from a business perspective.
Est is now called "Landmark Education," and according to a press release on Yahoo, the private for-profit company now has "60 major offices in 21 countries," affecting "100 cities" with " 750 professionally trained course leaders worldwide."
The PR spin gushes about Landmark's recent deal with Sprint "to improve its communications infrastructure."
The company's "flagship" program is called the Forum, which can be seen as mass marathon training.
Landmark has a rocky history that includes serious complaints about abuses, subsequent lawsuits and more than a little bad press.
Its founder Werner Erhard (a.k.a. Jack Rosenberg) also went through some rough times. His bad patch included allegations of incest, spousal abuse and income tax problems.
Erhard eventually sold the company and licensed its "technology." The specific details of that sale were never disclosed
But never mind all is well now.
Landmark is clearly pulling in more money than ever.
And Erhard? He resolved his personal problems and ended up a rich man relaxing on the beaches of the Cayman Islands. He lives in Georgetown with his girlfriend Hanukkah.
Landmark still generates lawsuits, complaints and bad press, but they seem to settle such matters quietly and weather whatever controversy arises comfortably.
|by Lulu||reply 10||04/01/2012|
Cult, cult and cult.
|by Lulu||reply 11||04/01/2012|
Cult and more cult, and proof that OP is a knowing cult member shill:
The untold story of Lululemon Chatelaine Magazine (Canada) via Newswire/July 27, 2006
Lululemon - the phenomenally successful Vancouver-based sportswear company that turned Boogie Woogie stretch pants into the unofficial uniform for casual Fridays - fancies itself more of a lifestyle than a clothing company. Its gung-ho corporate manifesto, which is stuffed into every shopping bag, encourages customers to drink lots of fresh water, perspire, love, choose positive thoughts and do one thing a day that scares them. "Do it now!" the tract urges. "The world is changing at such a rapid rate that waiting to implement changes will leave you two steps behind."
It's no coincidence that some of the same phrases and lessons are taught by Landmark Education Corp., a controversial human-potential encounter group. Chip Wilson, the smooth operator who founded Lululemon back in 1998 and built it into a national retailing powerhouse now valued at more than $225 million, is a devoted Landmark convert. Wilson credits his success to The Landmark Forum, an intensive international 3 1/2-day training seminar. The program has garnered widespread criticism for what some see as its boot-camp techniques, hard-sell recruitment tactics, heavy reliance on free labour, secretive nature and its links to Werner Erhard, a former Scientologist who developed the methodology.
Wilson so heartily believes in the Landmark approach that it has been made mandatory for management staff to participate in the training. Lululemon picks up the tab on the $495 tuition. Legally, companies like Lululemon have the right to ask this of their employees. If employees do not want to attend, they can be terminated as long as severance is offered.
|by Lulu||reply 12||04/01/2012|
Someone wanted a Landmark thread, so here you go!
|by Lulu||reply 13||03/13/2013|
This is so funny. I went to one of their info sessions a few weeks back. It was super intense and very cult-y though I do admit that I signed up for a May class and put down a deposit.
After going home, doing some googling, and really reading that LONG release they want you to sign, I pulled out and told them my shrink advised against it (one of the major things that LONG release says is that if you have mental issues to steer clear. I just have semi regular bouts with depression.)
I got my refund and feel like I really dodged a bullet. I believe in therapy and mental health. I've been with my therapist for a few years and I'm getting some real work done in my life in terms of dealing with my issues.
How in the hell was I supposed to make breakthroughs beyond what years of therapy have helped me with in a few long days?
Scam, scam, scam.
|by Lulu||reply 14||03/13/2013|
Don't get hung up on it!
|by Lulu||reply 15||03/13/2013|
OP, let me save you some time and money: just watch Fight Club instead.
|by Lulu||reply 16||03/13/2013|
R16, I've heard about these "motivational" seminars and have never been. Why are you referencing "Fight Club?"
|by Lulu||reply 17||03/13/2013|
"Why are you referencing "Fight Club?""
Because YOU ARE AN IDIOT SHILL BUMPING A THREAD ABOUT THIS DISGUSTING BRAIN-WASHING CULT.
YOU ARE NOT "CURIOUS," YOU ARE A ZOMBIE SHILL AND YOU SHOULD DIE. NOW.
|by Lulu||reply 18||03/13/2013|
R18, The only post I made on this thread was the one before yours. You either have some very serious anger issues or you're a total meanie. Which is it?
|by Lulu||reply 19||03/13/2013|
Excuse me for not doing trolldar.
This inane thread is another quarterly spam/shill/cult post from the braindead est-holes.
I was sarcastically mimicking the bullshit rituals of the est-hole cult practices, one of which is to "let out your grievances" or some such crap.
Typing in all caps was an intentional "act," hon, just like the faux-naivite of the shill OP.
But feigning ignorance about the whole cult aspect of Landmark is just stupid.
|by Lulu||reply 20||03/13/2013|
R20, Thank you for your explanation. I was always so turned off by the high prices of these seminars that I never got involved. I've don't known anyone that actually went either. Even reading online info didn't make much sense to me; I can't relate. Maybe I just had to spend too much time going to religious services as a child to sign up for more group think. But if that's what goes on in these seminars, yelling and arguing, that's the opposite of what would to me be helpful.
Can anyone that's actually gone to any of this obvious BS tell me what goes on and what they really got for their $$$?
|by Lulu||reply 21||03/13/2013|
What you need is a FREE stress test!
|by Lulu||reply 22||03/13/2013|
That shit is a CULT!
OP, let me tell you about Scientology...
|by Lulu||reply 23||03/13/2013|
Fucked up people LOVE it.
It changes their lives forever....
Except a few years later, all those people are just as fucked up as they ever were before Landmark.
They've just moved on to something else. Like Scientology.
|by Lulu||reply 24||03/13/2013|
Eh, I think it's spooky but my husband and several close friends did EST/Landmark stuff for years, although they're all out of it now. I've seen more cultishness in AA.
|by Lulu||reply 25||03/13/2013|
R24, Are you saying that the gullible are convinced that these seminars have improved their lives? I remember once trying to ask someone what it was all about and what they got out of it, and I just could not make sense out of their answers. So frustrating. I can't relate to any of this; maybe I'm too individualistic. Googling the info doesn't give me any specifics either. And yes I'm always very curious.
|by Lulu||reply 26||03/13/2013|
r13 yes, I wanted the Landmark thread after we were talking about the pron star who killed himself. I read about theChildren of Thunder cult who were spawned by Harmony Impact Training which is an offshoot of Landmark. The Rose of the World is another offshoot that caused the suicide of the Russian Rapunzel model. After going to their shit seminars and hearing what a shallow person she was, she jumped out a window. I am fascinated by these weird cults and love to hear peoples' stories about them!
|by Lulu||reply 27||03/13/2013|
r26 Go to the Rick Ross forum. When I first looked up HIT and Landmark I was on his page for weeks. There were culties that tried to infiltrate his page and say good things but you could always tell who they were by their "cultspeak". They never use absolutes, things are never bad or good but less than great and super fantastic and they just try and use circular logic and sound kind of kooky in general.
|by Lulu||reply 28||03/13/2013|
Was very turned off by the arrogance, narcissism, and insensitivity of the Landmark instructors at the seminar I attended. They boasted about their achievements, including sexual achievements. They ignored immigrants and gay people who had signed up for the course -- were trolling for straights with money to pony up some dough and join the club.
Also noticed that the grinning Lifetime functionary who told me that Landmark "had changed her life" was about 100 pounds overweight. If that is change, give me stagnation.
|by Lulu||reply 29||03/13/2013|
r29 Can you elaborate please? I have been obsessed with cults since Jonestown and love hearing about this. When I read the Rick Ross forum for weeks I was actually afraid I might be brainwashing myself by trying to see the signs and steer clear of it. My sister was into the secret for a brief time and I stayed away from all that stuff. Did you guys play the red and black game?
|by Lulu||reply 30||03/13/2013|
R30, What is the "red and black game?"
As a former student of Cultural Anthropology, it's still bizarre to uncover what supposedly intelligent people believe and practice.
|by Lulu||reply 31||03/13/2013|
Thanks to this thread, I just started reading up on Landmarks' practices. How can publicly insulting a vulnerable individual, who may still be dealing with severe trauma, be a positive experience? Blaming someone for being molested or abused as a child? WTF? Actors and models are often extremely sensitive and creative individuals, due to deeply unhappy childhoods. I can understand how being placed in a very vulnerable state again and reliving emotional abuse can lead to future tragic consequences. Didn't we just have a thread on North Korea, 1984, and brainwashing?
|by Lulu||reply 32||03/13/2013|
A friend of mine went there; he turned from an insecure troll into a nasty troll. He sounds like Tom Cruise in a way. Attacking people as a way of establishing dominance. Poor fool.
|by Lulu||reply 33||03/13/2013|
I'm the poster who said to watch Fight Club. Chuck Palahniuk (friend of mine) wrote Fight Club just after attending a weekend Forum.
It essentially teaches you that everything is in your head, nothing is real, it's all just perception. That sandwich in your hand? Not there. That chair you're sitting on? Just your imagination.
Hence my shortcut: just watch Fight Club instead. You are the Edward Norton character. The world is the Brad Pitt character.
It's essentially Existentialism 101 for Dummies.
|by Lulu||reply 34||03/13/2013|
r30 The red and black game is as follows (this is from some educators site but I assume it's the same one):
This is an exercise to try on your students to demonstrate that not all situations are best done in a competetive way. Divide your class into three (or, possibly, more) teams. The purpose of the game is to score as many points as possible. On each turn, each group decides whether choose red or black and writes that on a sheet of paper. Scoring is as follows:
If all choose black, each team scores 50. If exactly one team chooses red, that team scores 100 and all other teams score 0. If more than one team chooses red, all teams score 0. Play about 5 or 6 rounds. What you should usually find is that at least one group will start using red almost immediately and others will join in so that by the end of the game, NO team will have as many points as they would have if everyone had "cooperated" and chosen black at each turn. You can also point out that you said "score as many points as possible" NOT "your team should score as many points as possible" - again emphasizing that the larger score by the whole group was a positive gain.
It is supposedly always played at the weekend seminars to show how you must cooperate to do better, etc.
|by Lulu||reply 35||03/13/2013|
R34, I really enjoyed "Fight Club," but didn't understand it's purpose. I like things to be very concrete, with a bare minimum of mumbo-jumbo that I find very confusing.
|by Lulu||reply 36||03/13/2013|
John Rogers is my one true god. And he also has a great perm. Plus he told me I was a messiah.
|by Lulu||reply 37||03/13/2013|
Lululemon is a-crazy!
|by Lulu||reply 38||03/13/2013|
R36, R34 here. You inadvertently just hit the nail on the head: there IS no purpose.
You would be a perfect candidate for Landmark. They're looking for people just like you. If you can purposely give them money. And purposely sign up for the next Forum. And purposely bring ten friends.
Now go read some Kierkegaard.
|by Lulu||reply 39||03/13/2013|
Yes, you should definitely go! It worked wonders for me!
|by Lulu||reply 40||03/13/2013|
From the Rick Ross forum, this was on a flyer at one of the seminars:
"What would it be like if the San Francisco center was your center of being, and reflected in this, you were being your center? ... What if your way of being in the center gives the center its being and you are given your being from the space created in the center?"
|by Lulu||reply 41||03/13/2013|
I had a friend drag me to one of their "intro" seminars one time. I had never heard of Landmark before he told me about it. He too had been roped in by one of HIS friends, who'd supposedly experienced "profound changes" thanks to LMF. I really didn't want to go but my friend was so adamant, and I valued his friendship, so I went just for him.
They were pretty vague at the meeting...they didn't really go into much detail about what the process was for this supposed enlightenment. I assume they save the really crazy shit for AFTER you've paid and they've gotten you hooked. Many people busted out their checkbooks and signed up on the spot to attend the full course...I of course did not. I was too suspicious of the whole thing.
Went home, looked it up on the internet, and the instant I learned that LMF controls when you're allowed to eat/drink/use the bathroom I knew it was a cult.
|by Lulu||reply 42||03/14/2013|
Good for you r42. I have read about Landmark, Lifespring and their other offshoots and people who have had loved ones go say that it takes them a long time to recover, they have nightmares and flashback. They do weird hypnotic lighting and use sleep and food deprivation and make them recall and recount horrible memories and then just send them off with no counseling for the awful memories they have brought up. It's scary shit.
|by Lulu||reply 43||03/14/2013|
The incest allegations re Ernhard were true. One of his daughters went to the same university that I did and a friend was her roommate. He was threatening the daughter with all kinds of shit because she was talking about it.
|by Lulu||reply 44||03/14/2013|
How do you know she wasn't 200 lbs overweight before, R29?
|by Lulu||reply 45||03/14/2013|
r44 What! Tell us more!
|by Lulu||reply 46||03/14/2013|
I got involved with Landmark too and did the introduction and advanced courses. Some of the things they talked about were helpful. But ultimately there were things about it that made me uncomfortable. The course doesn't really provide many ways to deal with and overcome the problems you have, although it is good at helping you undertstand why you have those problems.
Also too much of the courses are focused on teaching you (yes TEACHING you) how to recruit other people to Landmark. Ultimately I got sick of spending my money on being taught how to recruit people rather than on being taught how to resolve the issues I took the course to resolve.
|by Lulu||reply 47||03/14/2013|
That's what I have heard r47. I also heard that they are so annoying and gung ho about recruiting that they will help you make a list of people you can possibly borrow money from, etc. That's so obnoxious. If one of my "friends" called trying to get me to enroll in an expensive cult I would have to end the relationship. Some people don't even like being pressured to buy girl scout cookies but at least the cookies are good.
|by Lulu||reply 48||03/14/2013|
Chumps, all who participate.
|by Lulu||reply 49||03/14/2013|