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Full Service - Scotty Bower book finally out

I have been waiting for a long time and Amazon finally delivered it - it's been released. It's an account by a male hooker in Hollywood in the 40s and 50s. He's got the full story on Spencer Tracey and Kate (bearding, he had sex on numerous occasions with Spence) and many, many others. Gore Vidal has endorsed the book as true. Read about Gary Grant, the Duke of Windsor and many more. Shocking.

I have written here many times about Tracey being gay - I got it from my friend who was one of Cukor's boys - so this validates exactly what he said.

by Anonymousreply 60004/22/2014

Was Kate a dyke?

by Anonymousreply 101/19/2012

No, she was just from New England.

by Anonymousreply 201/19/2012

He says she was...

by Anonymousreply 301/19/2012

Dang, no Kindle version yet.

by Anonymousreply 401/19/2012

I don't get a lesbian vibe from Katherine, but more of a frigid spinster vibe (I mean, can you even picture her in bed with anyone??). I never bought her relationship with Tracy (how different can two people be?). But those beard couplings were common back then (Charles Laughton and Elsa Lanchester; Barbara Stanwyck and Robert Taylor; Rock Hudson and his agent's secretary, etc.).

by Anonymousreply 501/19/2012

I just ordered it. Got some high-brow reading to look forward to!

by Anonymousreply 601/19/2012

Does it have pictures? He must have been a hottie.

by Anonymousreply 801/20/2012

Excerpts from publisher's web site:

Cary Grant was as suave in real life as he was on the screen. He was the quintessential Mr. Smooth. He was forty years old when I met him and everything he did was executed in precise, dapper, and debonair style. Perhaps the most well known films that he had starred in by then were Gunga Din and The Philadelphia Story. He would walk into the room and the ambience would change immediately. You instinctively felt a presence, an indefinable sense of classiness, whenever he appeared. He was married to Barbara Hutton at the time, although she wasn’t around when I met him. That did not surprise me. The day I was introduced to him he was actually sharing the house with another actor, Randolph Scott. It was patently clear to me that he and Cary Grant were more than mere friends. The proof arrived that fi rst weekend that I spent with them. The three of us got into a lot of sexual mischief together.

* * *

Over the next fifty years Katharine Hepburn and I would become the very best of friends. In the course of time I would fix her up with over 150 different women. Most of them she would only see once or twice, and tire of them immediately. But there was one exception. There was a very cute little seventeen-year-old trick that I set Kate up with early in our friendship. The girl’s name was Barbara. Shortly after they started seeing one another Kate bought Barbara a brand new two-toned Ford Fairlane as a gift. Kate saw Barbara off and on for just over forty-nine years. Three months before dear Kate passed away, in June 2003, Barbara received a letter from Kate’s attorneys. With the letter was a check for $100,000.

by Anonymousreply 901/20/2012

Sounds like a must-read. I wonder when it'll come out in electronic form?

by Anonymousreply 1001/21/2012

I just got my copy. I couldn't wait. He just got blown by Walter Pidgeon!!

by Anonymousreply 1101/30/2012

[quote] I wonder when it'll come out in electronic form?

It's already available for Kindle as well as on iBooks.

by Anonymousreply 1201/30/2012

Is it indexed? Anyone willing to supply a list of names?

by Anonymousreply 1301/30/2012

The titel and cover of the book are hilariously tacky, but I look forward to reading it. Thanks, DL.

by Anonymousreply 1501/30/2012

Walter Pidgeon was QUEER? Who knew?

by Anonymousreply 1601/30/2012

WWII Scotty was hot!

by Anonymousreply 1701/30/2012

"I don't get a lesbian vibe from Katherine, but more of a frigid spinster vibe (I mean, can you even picture her in bed with anyone??). I never bought her relationship with Tracy (how different can two people be?). But those beard couplings were common back then..."

Remember, they weren't a public couple, it was only after his death that they were talked up as some great romance. He stayed married to some woman, and as far as the public knew, they were friends who made films together.

Maybe that's all they really were, but they weren't public enough to be mutual beards.

by Anonymousreply 1901/30/2012

I could never get my head around the whole idea of Tracy and Hepburn being this big romantic couple. I couldn't see any evidence of sexual chemistry in their performances together, and she always struck me as being not spinsterish (which implies a theoretically heterosexual woman who never marries and due to societal taboos against extramarital sex remains a virgin all her life) but what used to be called "mannish," which was sort of the equivalent of calling an obviously gay man effeminate. The scenario of Tracy and Hepburn being good friends who bearded for each other makes much more sense to me than to believe they were furiously making passionate love.

by Anonymousreply 2001/30/2012

So was the idea of Kate holding a torch for Spencer Tracy all these years and that being why she never married just a cover-up of her lesbianism?

Also, where the hell is some gas station attendant meeting 17-year-old girls willing to be set up with lesbian movie stars?

by Anonymousreply 2301/30/2012

As I read along, the author comes off as an empathetic, compassionate, and VERY sexual guy who, even though mainly straight, has been pimping himself out to men since he was a boy with a paper route. Learning early, he was willingly passed around at everything from smoke-filled-room "straight" parties to the parish priests next door and learns both the value of his body and the fact he has no hangups about sex. He finds it intensely enjoyable. His first encounter with his friend's father in the barn is an affectionate relationship that seems to set the author on the right path for a baby prostitute. He learns to supply not just sex, but affection as well to the lonely queens of Hollywood and their saggy-assed bodies. That's why he didn't have to write this book if he didn't want to. He is well off today from keeping the secrets he tells in this book.

by Anonymousreply 2401/31/2012

Cynthia McFadden was also one of Kate Hepburn's girls.

by Anonymousreply 2501/31/2012

Katharine was in love with Cynthia McFadden, but wasn't delusional enough to think it was mutual.

by Anonymousreply 2601/31/2012

who is cynthia mcfadden's gfriend now?

by Anonymousreply 2701/31/2012

My copy is on the way.

Can't wait...and how hypocritical were those bitches on The View yesterday talking about the book.

They sit there and talk about celebrities affairs, drug problem etc and they're alive, but you can't say someone is gay even when their dead?

Fuck off.

by Anonymousreply 2801/31/2012

once someone is dead, you can say anything you want. If they're alive, it has to be true, but there's no reason why you can't say it, as long as it IS true. Truth has always been the best defense against libel. But you can't libel the dead.

by Anonymousreply 2901/31/2012

While we never know, I could kinda picture Hepburn as a stud in bed. You really can never tell about people.

by Anonymousreply 3001/31/2012

[quote]once someone is dead, you can say anything you want.

This must be the reason David Ehrenstein writes about dead movie stars.

by Anonymousreply 3101/31/2012

I don't understand why people keep claiming that authors wait until the rich and famous are dead in order to write revealing books? Kitty Kelly writes biographies on people when they are alive. Many, many authors have written about people when they are alive that are eye opening books.

I once talked about this with my sister who took criminology in college. She said let say an author writes a biography, and the author says the person was or is a bitch, asshole etc. that person can be sued, because its slanderous, but if the author writes, he had an affair with this man etc. the chances for the subject of the book to win a lawsuit against the author are slim because he and/or she is considered a public figure.

I think what is interesting about these kiss and tell books is that people protest when the author claims the person was gay or a lesbian, but if the author claims the subject had affairs with the opposite sex, was an alcoholic, took drugs, etc. usually they would just say, ignore it or it wouldn't bother family, friends, etc. that much. They claim that they are liberal minded, but they are highly homophobic. If the person was bi or gay, well then he or she were bi or gay end of story. If the person was straight, well then the person was straight! It seems to me we are in the 21-century and I don't understand what is the big deal IF it was true.

BTW, never ever claim Tyrone Power was bi or gay because his children will scratch your eyeballs out with rage. Yet, Tyrone’s daughters were toddlers when he died, and his son was born after his father died so how the hell do they know what their father did? Maybe their mothers hid some factors about their father because from them because they thought it might have been too painful for them? who knows?! Warning! Don’t go on Tyrone’s message board on IMBb.com. All Hell breaks loose on his message board when this subject pops up. Especially there is a fanatical, dogmatic fan on there who is a major homophobic nut! The lady goes by the name of blanche-2 on that message board. Check her responses out some time, Holly Moly!

BTW, in Scotty Bower's book, some of the information was so shocking that the publishers extracted some of the information out of the manuscript.

by Anonymousreply 3601/31/2012

"BTW, in Scotty Bower's book, some of the information was so shocking that the publishers extracted some of the information out of the manuscript."

Damn it!

by Anonymousreply 3701/31/2012

[quote]Also, where the hell is some gas station attendant meeting 17-year-old girls willing to be set up with lesbian movie stars?

Do you doubt that a handsome young man in his early 20s has a hard time meeting teenage girls in southern California?

Don't you think if you told a couple dozen girls that you know a beautiful female movie star who really likes girls that maybe two or three of them might be curious enough to meet her?

by Anonymousreply 3801/31/2012

Don't forget, that was back in the day when people didn't pump their own gas. In neighborhood gas stations, you knew the guys who pumped your gas and checked the oil and washed the windows every time you got gas. You knew their names and they knew their regular customers.

by Anonymousreply 3901/31/2012

Cynthia McFadden is the executor of gal-pal Hepburn's estate.

by Anonymousreply 4001/31/2012

R37 lawyers don't cut items due to shock value. They cut items due to potentially legal responsibility. Britain in particular has tougher laws about defamation than the US does. And what they cut will also be about living people, not the dead.

by Anonymousreply 4101/31/2012

I remember that a woman was interviewed for the Mann book confirming that she was spending time with Hepburn.

by Anonymousreply 4201/31/2012

I know Tyrone Power's son, and I knew Tyrone Power's secretary Nora Sayre, who is now deceased. Nora worked for him while he was living with Mai Zetterling. While he was with Mai, he met Tyrone's mother and broke up with Mai. Tyrone Jr. has no trouble at all about his father's bisexuality, but it is clear to him, as it was to Nora, that his dad was very attracted to both sexes. I am sure that Taryn Power has no trouble with it either since she was a close friend of Rock Hudson's while she lived in California and she used to talk about her father with him. Romina seems to object in public but she must really know and just doesn't want to talk about it publicly. I have been on many, many IMDb message boards and there are some very mean-spirited, nasty people on there, sorry, and I can't blame others for trying to get them off of there.

by Anonymousreply 4302/01/2012

36, I believe your criminology friend is mistaken. First of all, calling someone an asshole and a bitch in writing isn't slander, it's libel, maybe, but more than likely, it's just an opinion which one is entitled to under the First Amendment.

As far as Kitty Kelley, the best defense against libel as I think I wrote somewhere else is the truth. If Kitty can prove what she says, she can say whatever about a public figure. Which is why I can never understand why wait until someone has been dead for years to say he or she was gay. If it's true, you can say it while they're alive. No one does but that doesn't mean you can't say it. Well, that's untrue because several people have been outed and there have been no suits. Not that there should be because there isn't anything wrong with being gay, which I believe is an important point. I suppose if you were married with a family, NOT gay, and thought it was hurtful to your family, or you could claim you stopped getting certain roles, as a public figure you would have a case.

If you claim so and so had an affair with so and so and they didn't, they can most certainly sue you for libel. It's like the case where the Enquirer claimed that Carol Burnett was drunk in a restaurant, and she sued and won.

The criminologist is correct, you can write about a public figure and no one can stop you. But unless the person is deceased, you have to be able to back up what you say.

by Anonymousreply 4402/01/2012

37 - totally correct

by Anonymousreply 4502/01/2012

Susie Lee said she knew the the reporter for Hollywood Confidential and she said they were 100% on target. Susie said the even outed people and if you were bi or gay you were outed. However, they never said one word about Tyrone Power being bisexual nor gay and if he was, they would most definitely say so. She said Tyrone Power had an affair when he was young with Moss Hart but that was it.

by Anonymousreply 4602/01/2012

Do you mean Sue Kasznar [sp]

by Anonymousreply 4702/01/2012

No, R47. Susie Lee is a former elderly DL regular who dished quite a bit about older Hollywood. While not an actress herself, her family were in entertainment and she knew quite a lot.

by Anonymousreply 4802/01/2012

Whatever. Judging by the three endless threads she contributed to DL, she couldn't spin an anecdote if her life depended on it.

by Anonymousreply 4902/01/2012

Scotty Bowers has been married to a WOMAN for 27 years. He has a secret and it's obvious. I'm grateful that he has revealed these facts because looking over history their is a lack of acknowledge gay people.

by Anonymousreply 5002/01/2012

I remember reading about Tyrone Power being bisexual about 20 years ago in a French magazine. This has been known for years.

by Anonymousreply 5102/01/2012

Thanks for back referencing that properly, R45. The numeral "37" makes your post so meaningful.

by Anonymousreply 5202/01/2012

r48, Susie Lee was outed as the daughter of long ago actor Kurt Kasznar, so Susie Lee is the same as Susie Kasznar.

Tyrone has been outed as BI in many bios. He really was too pretty for just one sex.

by Anonymousreply 5302/01/2012

only 100,000 from Kate - to buy Barbara's silence, what a cheapskate ... well,it didnt work.

As I said over at IMDB before the thread was pulled, closeted stars back then couldn't be seen hanging out in bars, cruising the seafront or hanging out at George Cukor's or Rock Hudson's exotic parties - not after Tab Hunter was caught at a "pyjama party" (and lets not forget that Tracy and Hepburn kept a cottage on Cukor's estate where they spent a lot of time, and maybe not just by themselves ... and also attractive, discreet young golf caddies like Robert Wagner working for older stars soon got introductions and were in the movies). Also a lot of these actors had lines to learn for the next day, and could not be out late at night - so a discreet service set up by a hunky ex-marine who kept his mouth shut would have been ideal. If Gore says it was so, it was! William Mann also mentioned it in his book on Kate a few years ago ...

Wonder why IMDB pulled the thread though, the book is now legitimately published and available on Amazon so will be reviewed everywhere and comment is inevitable.

by Anonymousreply 5402/01/2012

Cynthia McFadden has been with Lez Smith the gossip columnist for years now.

by Anonymousreply 5502/01/2012

r54 again - what was also being discussed on the pulled IMDB thread was the idea of attractive people having to pay for sex - but really its all about control - not only sex but but paying for them to leave and not bother them again.

Busy people often dont have time for dates and building up a relationship slowly, but want sex with no complications with hot people or with someone out of their league. A certain current male superstar always has a new 'girlfriend' for a year or so .. presumably they audition for the vacancy and use it try and progress their own career in the industry.

George Michael's Fadi is one excort who has clearly struck it lucky by being taken up full time ...

by Anonymousreply 5602/01/2012

Hepburn was sort of a mother hen to Tracy. She was brilliant about scripts and negotiating contracts and he looked up to her for that. They were great friends. He was a bit in awe of her family who resembled the players in "The Man Who Came to Dinner". Her female friendships were very intense.

This from the James Curtis book.

My friend's Mom was Tracy's secretary in the late 40's. She's "Miss G" in the book.

by Anonymousreply 5802/01/2012

[quote]If it's true, you can say it while they're alive. No one does but that doesn't mean you can't say it. Well, that's untrue because several people have been outed and there have been no suits.

Exactly

by Anonymousreply 5902/01/2012

Susie Lee was exposed as a fake, or certainly a mass exaggerator. She had very little first hand knowledge.

by Anonymousreply 6102/01/2012

"Randolph Scott. It was patently clear to me that he and Cary Grant were more than mere friends. The proof arrived that first weekend that I spent with them. The three of us got into a lot of sexual mischief together."

I don't think two hotties like Randolph Scott and Cary Grant would have touched a goon like Scotty Bowers with a ten foot pole. And he says he got into a lot of "sexual mischief" with them? In his pathetic dreams!

by Anonymousreply 6302/01/2012

Mr. Blackwell dished plenty FIRST-hand info about Grant/Scott in his forgotten autobio.

by Anonymousreply 6402/01/2012

"Do you doubt that a handsome young man in his early 20s has a hard time meeting teenage girls in southern California?"

"HANDSOME?" Your standards are obviously very low.

"Don't forget, that was back in the day when people didn't pump their own gas. In neighborhood gas stations, you knew the guys who pumped your gas and checked the oil and washed the windows every time you got gas. You knew their names and they knew their regular customers."

You queens must be very, very gullible if you think it's plausible that movie stars would use a gas station attendant to pimp for them.

"BTW, in Scotty Bower's book, some of the information was so shocking that the publishers extracted some of the information out of the manuscript."

I don't think "shocking" is the right word to describe what the publishers extracted. "Ludicrous" would probably be a better word to use. No doubt some of Bower's claims were so over-the-top crazy that the publishers told him to take it out. I mean, look at the shit that's IN the book; it's already "shocking." And damned hard to believe.

by Anonymousreply 6502/01/2012

Yeah, the part about procuring young girls for Kate Hepburn is a little OTT. Pimping young girls for an older actress would be pretty salacious even today, let alone back then, given the taboos of the time. And if she used and discarded them the way Scotty claims (he said there were 150 of them), I can't believe there wouldn't have been some angry parents and a scandal at some point.

Although I can believe that a young, good looking guy with contacts in the movie industry could easily attract star struck girls. Then it would just be a short leap for him to say, "hey Kate Hepburn is involved in scouting talent for her next movie. Would you like to meet her?" I could see that being a successful ploy for an introduction 150 times, but I doubt it lead to sex that often. Most of those girls probably ran scared once they learned what Kate was really after.

by Anonymousreply 6602/01/2012

Wiki is just never wrong. I wonder who it was I met then.

by Anonymousreply 6702/01/2012

[quote] "HANDSOME?" Your standards are obviously very low.

No, I think Scotty in his prime was very handsome as well.

by Anonymousreply 6802/01/2012

food for thought

Books like this keep being written because neither the subjects of these books nor their estates have recourse against being libeled by slime like Bowers. Dead people have no rights. Bowers and his publisher, of course, know this. So, the result is books that make absurd claims about the sex lives of famous dead people and the author puts himself right in the middle of the fabricated escapades because how else can he sell his book? Anyone who takes any of this seriously, has my pity.

Incidentally, please read James Curtis' biography of Spencer Tracy in which he debunks Bowers' claims very easily. Another reason to read Curtis' book, of course, is because it is a well written, well researched and factual book. Bowers' book is none of these things.

The following is from Curtis' book at page 882. It's about William Mann's book and Bowers' appearance in that book:

'Bowers is full of glib stories and revelations, all cheerfully unverifiable. He claims, for example, a "long happy association" with Viven Leigh and another, in a Variety interview, with Tyrone Power. Mann devotes considerable space to establishing Bowers' credibility. ("I've never known Scotty not to the tell the truth," the late Gavin Lambert is quoted as saying.) He then allows Bowers to torpedo himself with the very first statement attributed to him. Bowers describes his initial encounter with Spencer Tracy as having taken place at Cukor's home soon after the end of the war; "That was the first time, but it went on for years. Tracy would be drinking when I arrived. He got loaded. He'd sit there drinking at the table from five o'clock in the afternoon until two in the morning, when he'd fall onto the bed and ask me to join him. . . . And in the morning he'd act like nothing happened. He'd just say thanks for staying over"

What Bowers obviously didn't know when he made that statement is that Tracy was completely sober from the time he was discharged from Doctors Hospital in May 1945 ---- nearly four months before the end of the war --- until well into the fifties. And, of course, he was never the guzzler Bowers portrays him to be. . . . .'

Add to Curtis' comment that Bowers is now changing his story claiming that his first encounter with Tracy was in 1952 during the filming of Pat and Mike. Tracy wasn't drinking during that period either by the way. It's hard to keep the "facts" straight when you are lying.

by Anonymousreply 6902/01/2012

Huh!

by Anonymousreply 7002/01/2012

R69...libeled? Oh dear.

Saying that people were gay is not a horrible thing, cunt. In fact, it's flattering. Being gay is an honor.

So fuck off and die, homophobe.

by Anonymousreply 7102/01/2012

I had to laugh at R69. He also posts endlessly on Amazon under the moniker Sagebush: seems to have a thing about defending Spencer Tracy from any possible whiff of poofery. Trouble is luv, there's quite a bit of primary evidence floating round re Bowers' popularity (e.g. see Beaton's unexpurgated diaries Dec'68 for an long ref to employing him) and people still alive who can back him up. Curtis can sniff about 'glib stories' but unlike say Gore Vidal who worked at MGM during the period, knew the personalities, and supports Bowers, he wasn't there. You can paint Curtis as a committed researcher, but at the end of the day he's merely another fan scribbler with an agenda. Bowers got the Times profile because insiders know this is different: unlike the other fiction that passes for Hollywood exposes (hello DP and BH!) this is the real deal, and has been known about for decades.

by Anonymousreply 7202/01/2012

I doubt that Spencer Tracy was ever "completely sober" for more than two days running...

by Anonymousreply 7302/01/2012

I posted that review for discussion purposes. It's not mine.

by Anonymousreply 7402/01/2012

It would be great if Tab Hunter commented on Scotty's book. He certainly would have known him.

by Anonymousreply 7502/01/2012

R62, something is incorrect with Wiki and IMBD used to indicate he had a daughter named Susan Kaszner.Here is a website indicating he did have a daughter by the name of Susan Kaszner

by Anonymousreply 7602/02/2012

Here is another link indicating he had a daughter, journalist Susan Lee Kasznar.

by Anonymousreply 7702/02/2012

Here is another link indicating Kurt Kasznar had a daughter by the name of Susan Kaszner.

by Anonymousreply 7802/02/2012

If Scotty Bower's is lying, why would Gore Vidal stands by him? Vidal has nothing to gain so why would Vidal stand by a liar? That doesn't make sense.

by Anonymousreply 7902/02/2012

I read in one interview that the studios had files of all of the movie star's sexual behavior. Why doesn't the studios release the records after all of these years?

by Anonymousreply 8002/02/2012

Vidal is now in his 80s too and may be losing the plot a bit ... and by verifying this book it adds more fuel to his belief that everyone is or capable of gay or bisexual actions. of course Gore knew the old hollywood too and mixed with the best of them ....

by Anonymousreply 8102/02/2012

R80, possibly because large portions of those files almost certainly would have been rumor and hearsay.

Their purpose would have been to coerce actors into taking roles they did not want to take, or to otherwise attempt to control their behavior. That purpose would no longer exist.

by Anonymousreply 8202/02/2012

"Saying that people were gay is not a horrible thing, cunt. In fact, it's flattering. Being gay is an honor."

Saying that people are gay when they are NOT gay IS a horrible thing, you dumb twat. Lies are never acceptable. And by the way, it's a trend these days to label a dead celebrity or historical figure gay; the theory is that such a sensational revelation will sell more books.

"Trouble is luv, there's quite a bit of primary evidence floating round re Bowers' popularity (e.g. see Beaton's unexpurgated diaries Dec'68 for an long ref to employing him) and people still alive who can back him up. Curtis can sniff about 'glib stories' but unlike say Gore Vidal who worked at MGM during the period, knew the personalities, and supports Bowers, he wasn't there."

Who are you, Bower's agent? You're full of shit, luv. Produce the "primary evidence." Produce the "people alive who can still back him up." Produce evidence that confirms with all certainty that Gore Vidal "supports Bowers." You can't, can you, luv? All you can do is run at the mouth without really saying anything. I had to laugh at you; your attempts to shore up Scotty Bower's credibility are so amusing.

by Anonymousreply 8302/02/2012

R83 You have far too much invested in this. It makes you sound a bit unhinged.

by Anonymousreply 8402/02/2012

"If Scotty Bower's is lying, why would Gore Vidal stands by him? Vidal has nothing to gain so why would Vidal stand by a liar? That doesn't make sense."

I don't think the support of Gore Vidal lends any credibility to Bower's tall tales.

And exactly how is Gore Vidal "standing by" Scotty Bowers? He did a blurb for the book; that's all. I get the feeling that Vidal probably had his cock sucked a few hundred times by Bowers and decided that it might be nice to do him a favor by giving the book a sweet little promo.

By the way, according to his website Vidal also "recommends One Nation Under Sex: How the Private Lives of Presidents, First Ladies and Their Lovers Changed the Course of American History, written by his friend, Larry Flynt, publisher Hustler magazine and political activist, and David Eisenbach, Ph.D. "He recommends a book written by LARRY FLYNT! Vidal obviously likes sexbooks written by his "friends."

by Anonymousreply 8502/02/2012

[quote]I had to laugh at you; your attempts to shore up Scotty Bower's credibility are so amusing.

What's really laughable is the way someone is going so over-the-top to discredit a silly gossip book. You need to up your meds, luv.

by Anonymousreply 8602/02/2012

Talk about ancient history.

by Anonymousreply 8702/02/2012

The Wikipedia site on Kasznar was vandalized and has been reported.

by Anonymousreply 8802/02/2012

"What's really laughable is the way someone is going so over-the-top to discredit a silly gossip book. You need to up your meds, luv."

What's really laughable is the way someone is going out of their way to lend credence to a book "written" by a gay gas station atendant who claims to have fucked and procured for all of Hollywood. Now go have a wank while pouring over all the hot, juicy stories concocted by an elderly queen, luv.

by Anonymousreply 8902/02/2012

R83, you're such an ignoranous.

"Saying that people are gay when they are NOT gay IS a horrible thing, you dumb twat. Lies are never acceptable"

People are usually assumed to be straight; assuming or calling someone is gay is not anything horrible, you stupid fucking ass.

by Anonymousreply 9002/02/2012

I'm reading it now...a few thoughts.

It's terribly written...I don't know what the people praising the prose style are talking about.

Scotty had A LOT of sex with grownups as a young teen, and even before. He seems to look back on it approvingly. This book is pro-man/boy relationships in a rather creepy way.

Whenever a famous person is introduced, we're immediately confronted with biographical information that obviously came from Wikipedia.

The idea that somebody might have this much sex with famous personalities and then have nothing interesting to say about them is really depressing.

by Anonymousreply 9102/02/2012

R91 can you give us a list of names of people the author claimed to have sex with and which ones were bisexual or gay men, or bisexual or lesbian women?

by Anonymousreply 9202/02/2012

There really isn't anything shocking or unbelievable in the book, except for me the description of what Charles Laughton and Tyrone Power liked to do in bed (scat). Ugh. Scotty was trusted by the stars he slept with and he never gave them up, until now. That's why he was well-liked. Everyone of a certain age remembers the stories about the Richfield Gas Station on Hollywood and Van Ness and the role it played in the golden age of Hollywood. He doesn't mention it until the middle of the book, but apparently Scotty -- who wasn't terribly goodlooking -- was a genuinely nice person, and, naturally, quite well-endowed.

by Anonymousreply 9302/02/2012

Yes, he certainly is the absolute soul of discretion. He already admits he's lied in the past. I'm supposed to believe him now?

Deborah Kerr's late husband Peter Viertel told a story of driving Greta Garbo somewhere, with Gore Vidal in the car, and when Garbo got out of the car, Vidal said to them, "gotta do something about that" and got out of the car, indicating that Garbo was interested in him. Everyone left in the car got a big laugh out of that one. I wouldn't trust Gore Vidal as far as I could throw him.

by Anonymousreply 9402/02/2012

Since the sex lives of the movie stars back then had to be very quiet and highly closeted, it makes sense to me that the rich and famous would go to a place that no one would have suspected anything remotely sexual was going on. If an actor drove up to a gas station and a bystander passed by, he or she would think the obvious, that actor is getting gas for his car. In reality, he or she was purchasing sex. Again, it wasn't the stereotypical brothel that everyone would have perceived a brothel to be like. Also, the studios had spies watching the movie stars every move back then. And I'm sure they were aware about the gas station, but it was a public place that it was a little more flexible for the rich and famous to act out their true sexuality that they had to oppress other wise.

I used to work with this lady whose husband fought in World War 2. Her husband was on the same ship as Tyrone was and she said her husband and his fiends knew Tyrone was gay. I brought this same conversation up to other people on IMDb Tyrone Power message board and other people claimed that was a lie. One lady said her father worked side by side Tyrone in the military, and her father never saw anything like that. Another claimed the same thing, and they both said if the military knew an actor was gay or bi, he would not be allowed to serve. I said, uh? really? like they would turn down a movie actor in those days? The public would be angry their idol was rejected. Also, the studios were powerful enough to halt the military from saying he was gay!

by Anonymousreply 9502/02/2012

Hugh Grant got blown by some hooker. If he hadn't gotten caught, nobody would believe a "movie star" would do such a thing with all the free pussy available to him. Just sayin'.

by Anonymousreply 9702/03/2012

First of all he was a rampant bisexual. R96, how do you know this information? Did your friend Henry Colman told you? I'm not doubting you nor being snippy at all. I'm just curious.

Yes, I too have heard that Tyrone Power was very well loved by his fellow soldiers. I have also heard he pulled wounded men to a helicopter while there were bullets flying past him. They said he was very courageous and he was very down to earth and did not play the movie star in the least.

by Anonymousreply 9802/03/2012

98: I am basing his bisexuality not on Henry Colman, who is straight and doesn't seem to know a thing about it, but on several things. One is what his son said about his father's bisexuality, which was posted here or on another thread. Also when a friend of mine was out here (I am in LA) about three years ago, we met up with a friend of his who knew a lot of the old stars and had been a friend of Caesar Romero's (spelling, I apologize). I asked him point-blank what the story was with Tyrone Power who has always been my absolute favorite and I've always read so much contradictory information about him. There was a good reason for that, it turns out. What he said was this: for Tyrone Power, having sex was like saying hello. It very often got in the way of his friendships so he liked to get it out of the way. He didn't believe that love or desire had a gender. He had sex with Anita Ekberg for most of his marriage to Linda Christian, which soured after the first two years. He adored his first wife and they tried like hell to have a baby but she couldn't. After divorcing Linda he tried to reconcile but she was back in France and I gather she found all his cheating exhausting though they always loved one another. I didn't know until I read a post here that he lived with Mai Zetterling and broke up with her for Ty Jr.'s mother. Caesar also told this guy that in South America Power wound up in bed with Eva Peron. He was a major flirt. Also he liked to talk seriously with the lights off but have sex with the lights on. There are also pictures allegedly of him having sex with Anita Ekberg on Howard Hughes' plane and Linda saw the photos. I recently read a tell-all book about Sonja Henie that was a riot. The screenwriter for one of the movies she made with Power said they spent all their time in her dressing room and when they came out, Power would look exhausted. Also in the book were notes they wrote one another where Power referred to "Jimmy" - evidently they named each other's genitals. He had a good time with everyone! There is more but I have to go to work tomorrow and it's midnight already.

by Anonymousreply 9902/03/2012

WOW! thank you so much for sharing your information! You are just terrific! R99! I too have always loved Tyrone Power. When I was in high school, I had a major crush on him after watching his movies on TV ,and observing his stunning good looks on various photographs. I guess some thought I was weird because I had a crush on a movie star that died so many years before I was even born. I didn't care because he was thee guy of my absolute dreams! The actors at the present time just didn't do it for me. I think I read the same book about Sonja Henie as well. I remember reading that about their genitals LOL! I remember someone once pointed out to Sonja Henie that Tyrone was bisexual, apparently she laughed and said, him?! no way!She just didn't believe it.

R99, what do think about Lana Turner when asked about Tyrone being bisexual she said that started with that horrible book! She said, he wasn't bisexual because if he was I would know it.

Also, Alice Faye and myriads of movie stars denied he was bisexual ,and they said they never heard nor seen any remote signs that he was bisexual? I recall reading some where about Tyrone Power having sex with Eva Peron before.

BTW, I once read that Tyrone wasn't prejudiced and he disliked racism. Have you ever heard that before?

R99, if his children know he was bisexual, why after all of these years do they get over heated if its brought up in public? That is confusing to me.

I think its tragic in Scotty Bower's book that a incredible beautiful man like Tyrone Power was into scat and golden showers. That isn't intimacy with another person nor sex that is just insanity. To me a guy would want to have a romantic and an intimate sexual encounter with Tyrone Power than scat and golden showers?! Yikes! What a waste and a loss. I think there is so much more being in a romantic sexual experience or relationship than taking a dump on your bed partner or piss on him.

by Anonymousreply 10002/03/2012

As far as costars and Lana, I suppose some knew and some didn't. I would guess Lana didn't. The only kid far as I know who gets riled up about his bisexuality is Romina, which is why I think they're very careful on the IMDb board. Romina posts there. She's been through so much with her daughter disappearing and getting divorced, I suppose people aware of it don't want to get her started. As far as what he was into, I would doubt what Scotty said since he earlier denied it. He makes no sense. The man had already been dead 21 years when that book came out, but he wanted to protect him. Now suddenly he has no interest in protecting him. I think it spices up his book, and I've never heard that from anyone else. I'm not clear how much he was with Scotty either. Power lived in Europe pretty much from 1948 on and left Hollywood in 1955 to live in NYC. Far as I know from talking to people, he was very sensual but not into anything kinky. And I've asked, believe me. I also heard in his early days at the studio, when everyone wanted him, he never did anything, guys just blew him. He was just so gorgeous. He never liked confrontation and never liked to say no to anyone! Holy mother, after 4 hours sleep I have to go to work.

by Anonymousreply 10102/03/2012

I'm curious how some of you have already received and are reading this book. According to Amazon.com, it isn't even available until February 14th. What gives?

by Anonymousreply 10202/03/2012

[quote]I'm curious how some of you have already received and are reading this book. According to Amazon.com, it isn't even available until February 14th. What gives?

I got it at Barnes & Noble. It's out in the bookstores early I guess. I paid $25.

Re Ty Power, I used to live next door to his daughter who, at the time, was having an affair with Richard Chamberlain. She was beautiful. Taryn was her name. Everyone knew Richard was gay and we couldn't figure out what was going on. Perhaps the Power family liked to color outside the lines. With broad strokes, as far as Ty was concerned...esp. if all those stories in the book were true. I don't doubt it.

I'm not a fetish person but they are more common than we think. That's what I liked about the author. When it came to sex, anything went. His attitude and demeanor in the book paints him as someone I can see movie stars feeling comfortable with.

by Anonymousreply 10302/03/2012

103, I think they were friends and she was just helping him out so he could stay in the closet. She was gorgeous.

by Anonymousreply 10402/03/2012

If that story is true, and the two of them were such tramps with guys that I would doubt it, it wasn't then. Ava had barely gotten to Hollywood when Lana and Power were together.

by Anonymousreply 10602/03/2012

I take that back about Ava. I don't know who I was thinking of. Neither one of them were lesbians though they may have indulged in same sex sex occasionally. They were certainly both big boozers. For some reason, maybe from something I read, that rumor is from a later time. I know Turner got pregnant by Power and had to have an abortion, and he met Linda Christian in Rome, came home, and broke up with Lana. It's all in something I read. God knows what.

by Anonymousreply 10702/03/2012

It's been documented that Ava had ocassional affairs with women. Sinatra thought she slept with both Turner and Lena Horne. He was especially concerned about Lena...

by Anonymousreply 10802/03/2012

I can buy it. I once read a survey of straight women and a percentage, can't remember what it was, said they had had sex with a woman occasionally.

by Anonymousreply 10902/03/2012

Yeah, straight women are like that.

by Anonymousreply 11002/03/2012

Ava used to hit on her secretaries. I posted this before on DL. My mother's friend was a costume designer in Hollywood, and Ava asked her if she would like to be her secretary. Her friends told her don't take the offer because Ava was well known to hit on her female secretaries .Some of them had sex with her. My mother's friend said Ava was a very lonely woman, and she was the most beautiful woman she had ever, ever seen. Her films and pictures did not do her jaw dropping stunning looks justice. Even Elizabeth Taylor said, now THAT is one gorgeous woman I had ever seen. BTW, my mother's friend did not take the job offer because she said, hey! I liked Ava tremendously , because she was very down to earth , and she never took bull. But, as far as being her lover? I'm 100% straight and I love men.

by Anonymousreply 11102/03/2012

R15, it seems incongruous to condescend by saying that the title and cover are tacky, when you misspell "title."

The book is short on fact checking. Rita Hayworth, for example, was not 41 in 1949. She turned 31.

by Anonymousreply 11202/03/2012

I have read so many times before that Spencer Tracy was one mean drunk. When he drank crew on sets were petrified of the man. I read before is that he had sex prostitutes even when he had an affair with Kate Hepburn. I find it hard to believe he was gay. I just don't get that vibe. I have always got a strong vibe that Kate Hepburn was a major lesbian. Susielee said Cary Grant was bisexual. Also, my brother had a friend who knew all of the movie stars who said Randolph Scott was most defiantly gay. He said Randolph Scott would say after working out, ooo! my muscles hurt! in such a Nelly way that he was so in your face fairy. BTW, right! Randolph Scott and Cary Grant just happened to share a house even though they were both doing financially well. How obvious can you get!

I have heard Walter Pigeon was gay before and the author who wrote Queeny, hinted that Sir Lawrence Olivia was his lover.

Does Scotty mention anything about Paul Newman?

BTW, I remember, many moons ago, I rented a DVD on movie out takes that was just fantastic! one of the out takes was on the set of Loyd's of London. Tyrone Power and his male costar, I forgot who it was, were joking around and embraced in a kiss. If Tyrone was sensitive about this part of his life, why would he clown around like that? Also, is there any truth to Hector Ace's biography on Tyrone Power? As I recall, he claimed Tyrone Power was a repressed bisexual who had a tough time dealing with his sexuality because he was Catholic? Is there any truth to that? Tyrone Power's daughter refers to the author Hector Ace as Hector Asshole.

by Anonymousreply 11302/04/2012

BTW, Tyrone Power was bugged by Hollywood Confidential and nothing came up about homosexuality ,but stuff on Rock Hudson did. Here is an expect of stated in the Blog:

Rock Hudson was nearly outed by Confidential magazine — fortunately for him, the studio was able to throw George Nader at the magazine instead. If you've read as many Confidential magazines as I have, though, they did out people between the lines. And sometimes not between the lines — sometimes right there on the page. They printed plenty about Tyrone, as did Whisper, but it always had to do with women. And Fred Otash, who wrote Investigation: Hollywood, worked for Confidential for years. Tyrone is prominent in Fred's book for his relationship with Anita Ekberg. I interviewed Fred at some length — do you know what he used to do? Wiretaps. He has an entire transcript of Rock Hudson's and Phyllis Gates' divorce discussion. He knew everything about everybody, and never did anything cross his desk about Tyrone Power and men.

The link is down below explaining more.

by Anonymousreply 11402/04/2012

[quote]I think its tragic in Scotty Bower's book that a incredible beautiful man like Tyrone Power was into scat and golden showers. That isn't intimacy...just insanity.

Get you Miss Priss! It feels *incredibly* intimate.

Don't have gay sex in England or Germany whatever you do!

As for bisexuality: I'm always amazed people ever think actors are like other people. They're not. Most of them are high strung fruitloops. I love that quote from Tom Hardy when he just snapped at the reporter doing the usual lame questioning regarding his sexuality: "'I'm an artist for fucks sake—I've done everything and everyone,'.

And LA and the industry is so fucked up. Has been from Day 1. Just read the obituary of Frederica Sagor Maas, the screenwriter who died recently at 111:

[quote]"“If I had to do it again, I’d like never to have seen the motion picture business.” .... there were the orgies, described by Freddie Maas as more depressing than titillating, in which “disgusting men” cavorted with “desperate women”. Though no prude, when she saw her own producer, Harry Rapf, and even the immaculate young Irving Thalberg, presiding genius at MGM, in the thick of one such bacchanal, Freddie Sagor Maas resolved to avoid such shenanigans out of a sense of “basic self-respect”.

by Anonymousreply 11502/04/2012

Freddie.. I am shocked! SHOCKED! to find gambling in Casablanca. Might I have my winnings.

by Anonymousreply 11602/04/2012

Jeez, r117, take a pill.

by Anonymousreply 11802/04/2012

Tyrone Power was raised Catholic, but I don't think he practiced much. I also don't think, from talking with this friend of Caesar Romero's (I posted on either this thread or another thread mostly everything he told me) that he was repressed or at all uncomfortable with the "bi" in bisexual. His sexual relationships with women were his true intimate relationships, but he was very attracted to both sexes. I think one of the authors of either a Judy book or a Norma Shearer book said that he couldn't have told you which sex he preferred, and that is true.

It's also true that there are people he spent time with, like the Kasznars who might have suspected but probably never knew about this part of his life. There were people who didn't. He kept his life very compartmentalized once he left Hollywood. At one point when he lived in Europe and went back to LA for a movie, he was living with Mai, seeing Debbie, Ty Jr.'s mother, and was involved with a actress named Thelma in England. She wrote a book called "Two Lives in the Theatre" cowritten with her husband (she married later on). Don't ask me how he managed to see the guys too but he probably did.

Allegedly the film Two Weeks in Another Town is loosely based on him and Linda Christian plus Power's relationship with the Zanucks and the relationship the Zanucks had with each other. He sent Lana to Mrs. Zanuck for advice when she got pregnant with his child. I think some of it is based on them, but the Kirk Douglas character is really set up as a prequel or sequel to "Bad and the Beautiful."

One other anecdote, sorry to go on for so long, but Tyrone was involved with Lorenz Hart. One assumes the nature of the relationship was sexual, but this guy told us that according to Hart's maid, Lorenz always gave the guys the bed, and Tyrone in particular was always downstairs in the middle of the night raiding the refrigerator.

by Anonymousreply 11902/04/2012

Me again (119). I posted back at post 98.

One more thing. This guy (he lives in New York and is very involved in a lot of things, so some of you might know him, which is why I don't name him) told me the Arce book was a lot of crap but he was glad that Arce debunked all fetish stuff because he was NOT into anything exotic. He also said that Power was much more aggressive with women sexually than with men and he thinks Power looked on having sex with men as having a break from the chaos of the rest of his personal life, where he was under pressure at the studio, financially responsible for his entire family and shelling out money to people like Diana Barrymore, and juggling a wife and girlfriends.

by Anonymousreply 12002/04/2012

I was reading a review of Madonna's movie "W.E." in the New Yorker (it was scathing). Among other things, the reviewer lamented the lack of sex in the movie:

"Recent reports from Liverpool claimed that irate moviegoers had come out of “The Artist” complaining that there were no words in it, and asking for their money back. In the same spirit, I hereby demand a refund for “W.E.,” because of its outrageous lack of sex. What on earth is the point of a Madonna product, in any medium, if it contains not a single orgy?"

It goes on:

It didn’t have to be this way. What Madonna should have done, for the historical scenes, is to buy the movie rights to “Full Service” (Grove Press), a new memoir by Scotty Bowers. He made his reputation by sleeping with everyone in Hollywood who wasn’t actually Lassie, and now he tells all. If you ever suspected that Spencer Tracy was bisexual and Tyrone Power a coprophiliac, and if you happen to believe everything you read, here is all the testimony you require. Bowers takes particular pride in the services that he performed for, and with, the Duke and Duchess on a visit to America: “Essentially, he was gay and she was a dyke.” Ah, happy days:

"We would have a mixture of half a dozen males and females engage in a display of gay and straight sex in the bungalow and then Eddy, Wally, and I would each pair off with the one we fancied most."

"Eddy" and "Wally?" Really, Scotty.

by Anonymousreply 12102/04/2012

I'm waiting for the musical.

by Anonymousreply 12202/05/2012

I read the book, Hollywood Laid Bare, by author John Gilmore around 5 years ago. This book is an autobiography of a guy who grew up in Hollywood and who tired to make it as an actor, but his acting career didn't go through so he became a very good author. The author said his mother worked in Hollywood, but I forgot what she did. Apparently, the author got in a conversation with his friend, James Dean when they were both taking acting class together and hanging out. Dean asked the author, John Gilmore, if he had sex with a guy before, and the author told Dean that he went to a party at The Garden of Allah when he was 15. A drunk Tyrone Power approached the author, squeezed his hand, patted his head, and kissed him. Tyrone told the author he was the most beautiful boy he had seen in a long time. From then on the author received proportions, but he never had an affair with a guy, but he just was experimenting around. This is on page 58 in the book.

Author, John Gilmore is a very good author and he seems like the type of guy that there is no bull with him by his written work and the way he writes. He is well respected. If you haven't read his autobiography, I recommend it.

Below is a link to his book. You can look up the page in which John Gilmore makes this statement.

by Anonymousreply 12302/07/2012

Here is a link to author, John Gilmore's Wikipedia website.

by Anonymousreply 12402/07/2012

R119, I'm reading "Open Secret" (Gay Hollywood 1928-1998) by David Ehrenstein. The author indicates that Hollywood Confidential outed many ,many actors but they never said a word about Tyrone Power being remotely bisexual?

Also, you've stated in one post he was a ramped bisexual ,but in another post have said that someone told you that he thought that Tyrone had sex with guys when he was under pressure? or had issues with the studio? However, he strictly focused his intimacy and sexuality with women? Also, you indicated that he didn't have an issue being bisexual and he there were no sexual gender boundaries ,but wasn't he frighten at all? because he was a movie star in the 40's and 50's and being a gay or bisexual actor ,especially back then was a major issue. I'm sorry but I'm a bit confused. I'm not doubting you in the least on anything you are saying. Also, once again I want to greatly thank you for sharing your information on Tyrone Power on DL because I'm a huge fan of his and reading what you have to say is a real treat.

by Anonymousreply 12502/07/2012

"Eddy, Wally, and I would each pair off with the one we fancied most."

If Scotty was friendly with the Duke of Windsor, and it certainly seems he was, all of the Duke's friends called him 'David', not 'Eddy', 'Edward' or the like. The Duchess may have been bi, and/or a dominatrix, but I've never heard she was a dyke. Also never heard of her referred to as anything but Wallis, for that matter. It's slip-ups like these that make me question Scotty's credibility more than I'd like.

I've been aware of Scotty and his exploits for about 30 years now, starting with Hector Arce's book on Tyrone Power. Much of what I've read of this new book (I don't have a copy yet) seems to confirm and expand on the stories Scotty's been telling for years, in one form or another. But some of the fresh details I'm reading now seem suspiciously fishy or blurry. And at 88, I have to wonder how good his memory is.

For one thing, I'd understood that Kate Hepburn didn't like Scotty because he got Spencer Tracy drinking booze and sucking cock. Understandable, since she was always trying to keep Tracy off the booze. Not sure about the cock. Now Scotty says he and Hepburn were great friends for many years. Of course, she's not around anymore to claim otherwise. (Whether lesbian or, more likely, bisexual, Hepburn did like women, as he claims. Irene Mayer Selznick, for one, said as much in her reputable memoir, and that was decades ago.)

In the end, it's likely that Scotty's polishing his tales a bit now to portray himself in the best possible light. It's not an unusual practice in Hollywood memoirs, of course. Still, after holding back the juicy details for all these years, I was hoping for something more substantial from him.

by Anonymousreply 12602/07/2012

119, you mention Ty Power helping out Diana Barrymore. Did you mention in one of your posts that Diana's half-brother Robin was Ty's lover in NYC before he went to Hollywood. It's in one of the Power bios, the F. L. Gilles, I believe. Apparently, Ty was very comfortable with his gay side at that time, and had a very loving and affectionate relationship with Diana's brother.

As for Lana suspecting Ty liked men, too, she said in her autobio that she wasn't surprised when she heard the rumors. Though Lana claims Ty was the love of her life, he wasn't especially aggressive sexually, so she said. He was a gentle lover, into holding her and cuddling, more than the sex act itself, and apparently she preferred it that way. Too bad they couldn't work things out, and make a go of it, they made such a beautiful couple. Seems Lana was a little too 'bossy' for Ty's taste, though. Guess he didn't like his women to wear the pants in the family.

by Anonymousreply 12702/07/2012

[quote]From then on the author received proportions, but he never had an affair with a guy,

Proportions of what, R123?

by Anonymousreply 12802/07/2012

r126, what in the world did Irene Mayer Selznick say in her book about Kate Hepburn liking women?

I can't imagine she would have risked any sort of slanderous remark on the subject decades ago when Hepburn was alive and quite feisty.

by Anonymousreply 12902/07/2012

The book is one of the Top 100 Bestsellers right now on Amazon and they have released Kindle and iBook versions.

I am surprised that it is selling so well. But I just downloaded a copy to my iPad because I was curious.

by Anonymousreply 13002/07/2012

I agree with R129. What did she say?

by Anonymousreply 13102/07/2012

123, 125, 127,not sure if you are the same person or not. I'd also like to know what it is to "receive proportions" did you mean propositions?

I think there is a misunderstanding of what I stated and that was probably my fault. I was tired and supposed to be sleeping so I could go to work in some semblance of a decent mental state the next day.

The story someone tells about Confidential is true, they never outed Tyrone Power, and the detective that worked for them, Fred Otash, wrote about Power and Anita Ekberg in his book. As far as the Gilmore book, I have no reason to doubt that.

As far as Lana, again, I could be wrong, but she never said she thought he liked guys, and never said he was not aggressive sexually. I read Lana's book. They liked to cuddle. They didn't cuddle instead of having sex. They did both. Tyrone was a very sensual man and I'm sure that's so. All I have ever read was that Lana didn't think the rumors were true, and she said on TV that "when he was with me, he was all man." We know gays are men, of course, but she meant the man-woman thing. Tyrone (again, this is what Cesar's friend told me, take it for what you will) was very aggressive sexually with women, less aggressive sexually with men, but if he met anyone of either sex that he wanted to be with, he didn't hide his interest to them. There's a story that at a party of Lana's he chased Corinne Calvet all over the place until Lana casually pressed a hot coffee pot into her flesh.

He indeed had an affair with Robin Thomas, Diana's brother, and I guess that's where his wanting to help out Diana came from. That and he was extremely grateful to Diana's stepmother for opening some doors for him in the theater. He wasn't just involved with Robin. He was expected to attend Robin's mother's weekly salons, and he became involved with a woman he met at one. Robin changed a great deal, he was a very troubled person, and he died in the '40s. Gavin Lambert made it sound as if Robin committed suicide after Tyrone went to Hollywood. Not true, it was years and lovers later.

What I said was that this friend of Cesar's thought that for Tyrone, being with men was a break from the pressures of his everyday life, not that he had sex with men when he was under pressure. He was always under pressure as is any film star who is working a lot and supporting various people and organizations. He could put all that aside when he was in a dalliance, whereas when he was with a woman, to whom he was either married, wanted to marry him, was pregnant with his child or whatever, he could not.

You are asking in essence in another part of your post how he got away with it and wasn't he frightened. I think if it was as Scotty says and Arce says, he would have been exiled and demoted to B movies by Zanuck. I think it was far more discreet and far more underground than is described. Some of it is true but remember films were his full-time job, not sex. He churned out a lot of movies, attended a lot of parties and premieres. What I did say, again what I was told is that in the beginning he did nothing but let guys blow him.

I don't believe Tyrone himself, though I didn't know him, had issues with his sexuality or with sleeping with anything that moved. I gather that he was a very complex individual who kept his life compartmentalized and quiet. Cesar said he never answered questions about his love life. I think his wives knew pretty much everything but his lovers, male and female, got a blank stare if they asked questions.

Scotty is embellishing these stories. I have to agree about the Duke and Duchess of Windsor, that whole thing is insane. I would also be interested in Irene Selznick's quote about Kate being gay, although I do believe Kate was gay or bi. Whether she needed Scotty for 150 dates is another matter. I say, enjoy the book but take it with a huge box of salt.

by Anonymousreply 13202/07/2012

"If Scotty was friendly with the Duke of Windsor, and it certainly seems he was, all of the Duke's friends called him 'David', not 'Eddy'"

It's a dead giveaway that Bowers was NOT on intimate terms with Edward VIII, because it is well known that he was called David by all of his close friends and mistresses. And I think Wallace Simpson would have killed anybody who would dare call her "Wally."

by Anonymousreply 13302/07/2012

[quote]I too have heard that Tyrone Power was very well loved by his fellow soldiers. I have also heard he pulled wounded men to a helicopter while there were bullets flying past him.

If this was WWII, there was very limited use of helicopters. They were still undergoing development.

by Anonymousreply 13402/07/2012

R126 - there is nothing written in Irene Selznick's autobiography in 1983 about Hepburn being gay and bisexual .

Scott Berg wrote after Hepburn's death that Irene told him that she visited Hepburn one day and saw an exchange with a woman that suggested intimacy .

Selznick seemed upset by this idea that there was parts of Hepburn's life that she was unaware of . The two women were not close in later years .

Its interesting that Irene supposedly disliked Katharine's long term friend Laura Harding because she had a relationship of some sort with David Selznick (her husband)

by Anonymousreply 13502/07/2012

What about gay helicopters, R134?

by Anonymousreply 13602/07/2012

134 - Tyrone Power was a pilot. On planes.

by Anonymousreply 13702/07/2012

[quote]Tyrone Power was a pilot. On planes.

Yes, I know. So where do we get this fairytale about him pulling wounded men to a helicopter?

by Anonymousreply 13802/07/2012

Pics of him in his prime or useless

by Anonymousreply 13902/07/2012

Now, in Hector Ace's book, he claimed that this famous interior decorator had an affair with Tyrone Power when he was in his 20's , was that made up bull? Also, Fred Lawrence Guiles biography on Tyrone Power seemed really balanced and was a respected author. why did Tyrone Power's children were pissed off with Fred Lawrence Guiles book?

BTW, yes I did mean propositions.

Also, I meant to say plane not helicopter.

by Anonymousreply 14002/07/2012

Wasn't Selznick the person who called Hepburn that dyke bitch? Or was it somebody else?

by Anonymousreply 14102/07/2012

>>>Does Scotty mention anything about Paul Newman?

LOL!!!

Um, no.

by Anonymousreply 14202/07/2012

When you say "children" I think you are only speaking about Romina, and I can't tell you her reasons for not liking certain things. The sources for the Guiles book, the main sources, were Power's first wife, Annabella, and the editor Watson Webb. I would consider them reliable at least for the portions of his life before he moved to New York. I don't know where Arce got his stories but as I recall, this interior decorator met Power when he was younger, while Power was touring in John Brown's Body. It could be true. Power did not like being alone. Following him around at that time were his wife, Linda, who had a habit of showing up unannounced and Anita Ekberg. That was some juggling act he kept going.

by Anonymousreply 14302/07/2012

[quote]If Scotty was friendly with the Duke of Windsor, and it certainly seems he was, all of the Duke's friends called him 'David', not 'Eddy'

An excellent point! My take on this is that if it happened, firstly the Windsors, who were 'users' par excellence, wouldn't have considered him a friend, but merely a valuable contact who they were friendly with. Secondly, the Duke loved Americans, and their free spirit, and as a semi-underground 'enabler' they may have cut Bowers a special howdy doody license. If I'm in the room with a sexy flirtatious big dicked operator who's going to make my fantasies come true, I don't care what the fuck he calls me.

Bowers claims that he was introduced to the Windsors by Cecil Beaton. The unexpurgated Beaton diaries confirm that Beaton met him, thought him 'a phenomenon', and paid him. BUT, apparantly Beaton didn't know the Windsors very well. Again, if it happened I would guess it was because, to employ an analogy, Beaton who knew where to get his hands on a drug supplier. So the Windsors didn't have to know him well or like him. Also: one thing that did make me sit up. Bowers mentions being with them in the company of a man named Bull who I've never heard of, and the Irish gay film director Brian Desmond Hurst. Little known now, Hurst was the subject of an outrageous recent UK memoir The Empress Of Ireland. No mention in it of Bowers, but then, it's mostly about Hurst's dotage.

by Anonymousreply 14402/07/2012

Another thought occurs re the Windsors and how sexual need induces schizoid behavior: consider Sir Osbert Sitwell. In England, he was a model of prim rectitude who motored with their even more upright mother Queen Mary. When across the water in New York he liked visiting dives to jiggle with big dicked negroes.

Although luvvies, and on lower rungs, Noel Coward and Somerset Maugham were but two of many semi-establishment figures who did similar once they'd crossed the Atlantic and sniffed America's freer air. And in Hollywood, the air was even freer.

by Anonymousreply 14502/07/2012

"Wasn't Selznick the person who called Hepburn that dyke bitch?"

Straight men are always calling uncooperative women dyke bitches, it doesn't mean anything.

by Anonymousreply 14602/07/2012

It was a woman who said it, you delusional queen.

by Anonymousreply 14702/07/2012

The book is sort of a snooze. It contains no news to anyone who reads Darwin Porter's fantasy-biographies. But he's probably more reliable than Porter.

He certainly cuts himself a lot of slack when it comes to his activities and his impact on others, e.g. his daughter and her mother.

by Anonymousreply 14802/07/2012

According to the Chicago Tribune there is going to be "a Vidal-hosted book party this week at the Chateau Marmont where Bowers will be on hand."

Oh to be a fly on the wall.

Who do you think will rock up?

by Anonymousreply 14902/07/2012

Hi, 132. I'm 127, with no connection to those other posters. You're very informative, and I'm in agreement with pretty much all you say that I'm aware of. A few of the things you mention re Power I'm not up on. When you mention Caesar Romero's claim that Ty was more sexually aggressive with women, than with men, I wonder if he might have meant that Ty 'went after' women, whereas he didn't pursue or 'go after' men. (He probably didn't have to.) I wonder if Romero was thinking about Ty's aggressiveness as a romancer or pursuer, rather than his sexual aggressiveness in the bedroom. Romero was said to be one of Ty's lovers, so he'd know how aggressive he was in the bedroom with men, but I wonder how well he'd be able to personally judge Ty's sexual prowess with women.

I was a bit tired when posting earlier (as I am now), so I apologize if I wasn't as clear as I could have been. I wish I had the LT book in front of me. I'll try to hunt it down in my library. I recall Lana making some light reference to the 'rumors' about Ty without going into any details. She may have said that she didn't give them much credence, but, iirc, she seemed to indicate that it wouldn't have bothered her if they were true. In other words, as far as she was concerned, it wouldn't have mattered because, as you quote her, Ty was 'all man' with her, or words to that affect. And you're right, they didn't 'cuddle' as an alternative to sex, and I didn't mean to imply that. I believe I said that Lana found Ty to be a gentle, affectionate lover who enjoyed cuddling (in addition to sex), and that she liked that about him. Perhaps, she was indicating that he liked to cuddle more than many men she knew, who preferred straight-on sex without the gentle affection she got from Ty. Personally, I tend to think she was trying to be polite to his memory in her book. A highly-social woman like Lana, who'd been around for a while and loved gossip, likely knew the whole story on a big star like Ty. (Wasn't Louella Parsons a good friend of hers?) Lana likely just chose to forget about the rumors when she and Ty were together. As did Judy Garland, and many, many other lovely ladies.

BTW, I recall that Myrna Loy (who did not sleep with Ty, as I recall) made similar claims about his being a 'soft' and/or 'gentle' man in some ways in her own autobio. I seem to recall that she, too, indicated she wasn't surprised when she heard the gay rumors. (Any confusion I may have made between Lana's words and Myrna's are entirely unintended, but certainly possible.) I hadn't heard the Corrine Calvet story, but I'm surprised to read Ty was chasing her; I believe it, just hadn't heard it. The reason I'm surprised is that I recall that Calvet 'complained' (in her own autobio) that Ty was one of the few men in Hollywood who didn't try to sleep with her. She then made some snide reference to the gay rumors, indicating that it was highly likely a man was gay if he didn't show any interest in sleeping with her. (This was shortly after the Arce book came out, and CC may have been putting her own spin on those stories to spice up her book.) Your story shows that Ty actually had more interest in Corrine than she wanted to reveal.

by Anonymousreply 15002/08/2012

Regarding Irene Mayer Selznick and Kate Hepburn: my copy of the IMS book is, unfortunately, in storage, but with a little help from our own David Ehrenstein, I've managed to locate the reference on-line. Now, David claims the story came from the A. Scott Berg book on Hepburn, "Kate Remembered", which I don't own, and don't remember ever reading, but he's very likely correct. I must have picked the story up from there somewhere along the line. It would certainly make more sense, since the IMS book came out while Hepburn was still alive and able to sue; the Berg book came out shortly after her death, as I recall. In any case, the story does come from Irene Mayer Selznick (isn't that the greatest Hollywood name imaginable).

From Ehrensteinland.com (with a few typos corrected):

"Still Berg manages to “drop a hairpin” via a quote from producer Irene Mayer Selznick, who knew La Hepburn all-too-well. Recalling how she once found a mysterious young woman in Hepburn's townhouse and saw “an exchange between the two of them that suggested a level of intimacy she had never allowed herself to believe. 'Now everything makes sense,' Irene said to me. 'Dorothy Arzner, Nancy Hamilton — all those women. Laura Harding. Now it all makes sense. A double-gaiter. I never believed that relationship with Spence was about sex.'”

'Double-gaiter', a term I hadn't heard before Irene dropped it, apparently refers to someone being bisexual, as in 'goes-both-ways'.

by Anonymousreply 15102/08/2012

greetings 127 from 132. I don't know what Caesar was referring to, but he was in the confidence of many women, so he may indeed know something of Tyrone's prowess in the bedroom. I figure if Anita Ekberg came coming back for more, it must have been okay. If you read the Mai Zetterling book, he was quite aggressive, and they had quite a love affair. Zetterling was a very sexually charged woman.

Lana as far as I know denied the whole gay thing with Power. And you're right, she probably had heard it and perhaps didn't believe it. Judy Garland knew that he was bisexual and didn't care. She was crazy about him, and he wrote in a letter that he regretted that it didn't work out. Liza, by the way, insists that Judy had Power's child and told Ty Power Jr. that and gave him some story about how this person was teaching school in the midwest. This was a long time ago. There are illegitimate children, but I don't think Judy had one of them, just from reading about her life. Calvet, I only know the story from her book "Has Corinne Been a Good Girl?" I admit I did not read all of it, but there was no doubt that Tyrone wanted to sleep with her. He loved that type - foreign!

From what I understand, Power let women he wanted and men he wanted know that he wanted to sleep with her/him. He seems like he was very confident in that regard, and why wouldn't he be. He also was involved in threesomes at times. Interesting guy.

151, I can believe that Hepburn business via Irene Selznick. That drop a hairpin cracks me up. A friend of mine went on a tour of Dracula with Farley Granger and said "he never dropped a hairpin."

by Anonymousreply 15202/08/2012

R 141 - it was Margaret Sullivan who made the comment about Katharine being a ...bitch .

She really disliked her but I don't think they ever met - both Hepburn and Margaret Sullivan were dating the same guy - Leland Hayward . Margaret got pregnant to Leland and so they got married .

There was a brilliant biography called Haywire about the family . Very dysfunctional family.

by Anonymousreply 15302/08/2012

Hey R143 that is interesting that you mentioned Tyrone was also interested in three somes because there is a guy on Tyrone Power's message board who claims he grew up in high society. He said his parents expressed they both wanted to have sex with him. Tyrone's response was like it was no big deal type response, and Tyrone said ok let’s go. The guy said Tyrone was much more sexual with his father than his mother. BTW, that thread on the message board is gone. I guess they took it off. Man! those people on IMBD.com are major homophobes!

I recall that Myrna Loy (who did not sleep with Ty, as I recall) made similar claims about his being a 'soft' and/or 'gentle' man in some ways in her own auto.

R141, that is interesting you mentioned that about Mryna Loy because in Errol Flynn's autobiography, he asked Linda Christian why did she marry Tyrone who he too referred to as soft. Those on Tyrone Power's who are fanatical type fans of his got mad when someone brought that up about Errol Flynn's auto and they claim Errol Flynn meant that Tyrone wasn't as masculine, which is stupid! Also the man who brought up that

by Anonymousreply 15402/08/2012

Here are some comments made by famous people in Hollywood about the claim that Tyrone Power was bisexual.

Billy Wilder said that everyone who worked with Power, men and women, came to love him because he was such charming and good company. I recall Wilder's statement when he was asked, long after Ty's death, whether he had ever seen any evidence of Power's being a homosexual while directing WITNESS FOR THE PROSECUTION. (Co-star Charles Laughton was gay and Wilder certainly had no problem with such things.) Wilder said he never saw any indication whatever that Power was gay. But, he added, "I'm fully aware that if someone doesn't make a pass at me, that doesn't make him a heterosexual. He may happen to be a homosexual with excellent taste."

Anne Baxter, Tyrone's co-star in "The Razor's Edge," and who knew him very well, was OUTRAGED about homosexual rumors, and said so publicly on the Tonight Show. She was just livid, and said that those people didn't know him, and she did, and they were bascially full of crap.

by Anonymousreply 15502/08/2012

Check this out! This is a tribute to Tyrone Power and there are many pictures I have never seen of him before.Ah! what an incredible, gorgeous man that I have ever seen. Take a look and see what this collection of pictures!

by Anonymousreply 15602/08/2012

There is this stupid argument on the message broads on IMBD.com that its impossible that these actors in actress could have had all of these affairs because they were so busy, and tired making films, major eyeroll! Its very simple, Carol Burnett said she only did a couple of so movies because she couldn't stand the long periods in between scenes. She said it was grueling because you had to kill time. So on the contrary, what these idiots don't know is that these actors and actresses had a lot of time when they made films to get into all kinds of stuff, especially having sexual affairs.

by Anonymousreply 15702/08/2012

Just a small correction - very, very few people called the Duke of Windsor "David". "Your Royal Highness" and "Sir" was it, even if you were sleeping with him. It is very hard to believe Scotty would never have called him Eddy or David to his face anyway. I believe the book and the stuff he wrote.

by Anonymousreply 15802/08/2012

R150, ALL touching is considered "sex" to a woman.

by Anonymousreply 15902/08/2012

{quote]I have heard Walter Pigeon was gay before and the author who wrote Queeny, hinted that Sir Lawrence Olivia was his lover.

Please refer to him by his full title, Olivia Baron Newton-John.

by Anonymousreply 16002/08/2012

I watch that What's My Line every once in a while. I think his personality was devastating and so different from his film persona.

R154: I've spent a lot of time on the IMDb message boards. You can't have a post removed just because you don't like it. It has to violate the terms of service. In the case of that "threesome" idiot on the Ty Power message board, he totally backed down on his story. His story was that he looks so much like Tyrone Power (already suspect) that it was noted by Linda Darnell. Unfortunately for him there was someone on the board who knew where Linda was living at the time and whatever he said tipped he/she off that he wasn't being truthful. Then he went on to say that his parents had sex with Tyrone Power. Eventually he backed off and started saying he hadn't meant what he wrote. He was lying. That isn't to say Tyrone Power didn't have threesomes, he did, just not with that bozo's parents.

157: Again referring to IMDb, I doubt very much gay lovers were showing up on film sets at studios to have sex during change of camera settings. Also, I don't know about you, but if I were making a film, having sex in the middle of the day might be good and might be bad depending on whether or not it gave me or sapped me of energy. I think that is a consideration. Sure there are long periods between setups. Is it possible that some people gave interviews, rested, played bridge, did drugs, met with their agents or managers, studied the script, ran lines? I'm not saying actors didn't have sex at the studio, they did. They also did other things. But it is a long day and an exhausting one.

R141 - I think you can see from the What's My Line clip that Power was soft-spoken and indeed, a very gentle person. Perhaps that's what Flynn was referring to, perhaps not. The actual story is that he told Tyrone Power NOT to marry Linda, and Power often said later that he should have listened to Errol. When they got married, Flynn said to him, "You MARRIED her?" I don't recall in my reading that he ever asked Linda why she married him.

155 - Anne Baxter was one of his best friends and they toured together in John Brown's Body when Judith Anderson left. A friend of mine way, way back, went to a special screening of a film starring John Hodiak and met Baxter, her husband Hodiak, and Tyrone and Linda after the screening. He liked all of them very much.

by Anonymousreply 16202/09/2012

What I don't understand is, why didn't the maids, butlers, etc. talk about what they saw in these rich and famous households after they were retired ,and set the record straight? They knew a lot what was going on in these people's lives. In fact, Lana Turner's daughter, Sheryl Crane,said her nannie took her to the local park to play ,and all of the nannies met at the same park to the kids there to gossip. She said they would gossip about what they encountered at the various households they worked for. She said the staff knew everything. I read the book Frank Sinatra's butler wrote which is a very balanced account of the butler's life working with Sinatra.

R162, I recall reading that Tyrone had a sexual fling with a movie extra on the set of Jesse James,and she got pregnant by him. The extra gave the baby boy up for adoption. She eventually told Tyrone ,and he was very upset. He asked her why didn't she say anything to him? He spent hundreds of thousands of dollars looking for the baby ,but he couldn't find him. Why was it difficult to find the baby with especially with his money? Did his children try to find their half brother?

Also, I have read that there has been a very strong claim that Tyrone was the love of Cesar Romero's life?

In Hector Ace's book, he claimed a young man had a sexual affair with Tyrone and the young man was totally in love with him. The young man asked Tyrone if they could have a life together ,and Tyrone Power ignored that suggestion. Later the young guy became a top decorator. However, Hector Ace didn't give the name of the name of the decorator. Is that story bogus? It sounds true to me.

Did Tyrone have an affair with Clifton Webb? I have heard that story as well.

There is the other side of the coin that is annoying.The various people who complained that Tyrone wasn't bisexual wasn't involved in his life 24/7 either. So how the hell could they have totally rule out he wasn't bisexual?

by Anonymousreply 16302/09/2012

This is probably a dumb question but why on earth would Spencer Tracy beard with Hepburn when he had a perfectly good wife/beard at home?

by Anonymousreply 16402/09/2012

So, only Power, Grant and Hepburn are outed in this book?

by Anonymousreply 16502/09/2012

Both R164 and R165 have very good questions. I was wondering that myself, R165. So Scotty's claim that he had sex with a lot of famous guys and he names not even a handful? I was curios about Paul Newman?

by Anonymousreply 16602/09/2012

Maybe Tracy was merkining for KH, r164.

And what better beard than an "illicit" hetero affair - pussyhound credentials or what?

by Anonymousreply 16702/09/2012

BTW, my brother knew this guy who did some commercials in the 50's and 60's and he was trying to make it as an actor. The guy told my brother that there was this restaurant across the street from the studios and he met many, many people. He said Randolph Scott was definitely gay. Also, he said Randolph would come into the restaurant and say very effeminately, oooo! I just worked out and my muscles are so sore.

by Anonymousreply 16802/09/2012

I just don't get the vibe that Spencer Tracy was bisexual.

by Anonymousreply 16902/09/2012

yes - is anyone else "outed" in the book?

by Anonymousreply 17002/09/2012

I think modern city people can't imagine Spencer Tracy as gay or bisexual - but all you have to do is go to a really small conservative town and you will see all the ancient layers and covers of the closet.

by Anonymousreply 17102/09/2012

"Just a small correction - very, very few people called the Duke of Windsor "David". "Your Royal Highness" and "Sir" was it, even if you were sleeping with him."

Maybe so. But I doubt that Scotty Bowers was one of the ones "sleeping with him." Or Wallace either.

The Duke and Duchess of Windsor DID have a "close" friendship with a flaming gay man, but it wasn't Bowers. It was Jimmy Donahue, one of the Woolworth heirs, a relative of Barbara Hutton. Wallace was quite amused by Donahue and he spent a lot of time with her and the Duke. In fact, the Duke was jealous of him! Donahue claimed to have had a four year affair with Wallace. Some people dispute that, because Donahue was such prankster, but it is true that he was a close friend of the couple for several years.

by Anonymousreply 17202/09/2012

Donahue was a major queen! and he lived men in uniform.

by Anonymousreply 17302/09/2012

"I just don't get the vibe that Spencer Tracy was bisexual."

Neither do I. I don't think he was. There's a recent biography of him that would seem to be the definitive bio; intensively researched, it's over a thousand pages long. And nowhere in the book does it state that Tracy was gay or bi, or even rumored to be gay or bi. I think gay rumors have sprouted about him precisely because he was NOT gay. It always sells books to come up with a startling revelation about a long dead person, even if there's no evidence to support it.

by Anonymousreply 17402/09/2012

R163 That story about Jesse James is true. It used to be a lot harder for adopted children to find their real parents and vice versa than it is now. I don't think the girl told Tyrone, I think he probably heard about it. Everybody in Pineville MO knows about it. My friend's mother went to school in San Diego and she sears to this day that a Tyrone Power lookalike was a substitute teacher there, and someone in the class said (about my friend's mom) she thinks you look like Tyrone Power. And he said, I have heard that. I don't know. I am adopted. Agewise it was entirely possible, but who knows.

Can't answer for Cesar Romero and how he felt. I imagine several people felt that way.

I thought in the Arce book the kid who was in love with him took the name Ty and his name was Ty Culhane or something like that and he became a decorator. I wouldn't have any idea if that story is true.

Clifton Webb - I doubt it.

Tyrone Power was very much bisexual.

164 etc. As far as Spencer Tracy, I have no idea what he was. However, I know that he had a big affair with Loretta Young in the early '30s, and she confessed about it to her priest, and he told her she had to give him up, and she said she couldn't. Finally Tracy's boozing got to her, and she wrote him a letter and broke it off.

After Tracy died, his daughter Susie showed Loretta the letter she'd written to Tracy 30+ years earlier. He had always kept it. Loretta was surprised. Susie said, "Loretta, my father loved two women in his life - my mother and you."

What I found strange is that Hepburn wasn't mentioned. I think they were very devoted friends. And I think he probably helped her out with this romance business.

by Anonymousreply 17502/09/2012

R174 - I think that's what Bowers does in this book. He names straight people and says they're gay. I don't care who was and who wasn't, it makes me no never mind, but I know that every time a name comes up, there is always someone who says, "I've heard that about so and so." The truth is, if a guy is handsome, you hear it about him. It seems to me that's what Bowers does in this book, he plays into everyone's fantasies by claiming so and so was gay when in fact, so and so probably wasn't.

The other thing is, this Tracy thing plays into my long-held theory. The minute someone is outed in one of these books, the next books that come out have all kinds of stories about that person's gay exploits. I've followed this for a while, and it never fails. I'm not in any way saying some of these people weren't gay or bi. But it's amusing to me that there are x number of Katharine Hepburn bios and then William Mann says she's gay and now Bowers has fixed her up with 150 women, just as an example.

by Anonymousreply 17602/09/2012

[quote]... both Hepburn and Margaret Sullivan were dating the same guy - Leland Hayward .

You mean Margaret SullAvan:

"The fairest of sights, in twinkling lights Is Sullavan with an a."

by Anonymousreply 17702/09/2012

Just curious: does anyone know if Tracy's affair with Loretta Young happened before he married? And I assume it happened before her affair with Clark Gable?

If those men were single, why didn't a marriage happen for Loretta with either of them?

by Anonymousreply 17802/09/2012

Loretta's affair with Tracy was before her affair with Clark Gable and it was while he was married to Louise, since they got married in 1923 and this was the early '30s. Loretta didn't marry Tracy because he was already married and she couldn't stay with him as a girlfriend any longer because she couldn't take his alcoholism.

As far as Loretta and Clark Gable, he was married to a woman named Maria when they had their affair. I recall a story about Loretta hiding her pregnancy, and one day, a reporter from Photoplay came to interview her. Her sisters said Loretta was sick and piled a ton of blankets on her. She did the interview lying in bed under all those blankets.

by Anonymousreply 17902/09/2012

From the NYPost today:

Gore Vidal flew back to LA just in time to toast sexual Zelig Scotty Bowers at the party for his much talked-about memoir, “Full Service: My Adventures in Hollywood and the Secret Sex Lives of the Stars,” at the Chateau Marmont, hosted by hotelier Andre Balazs and literary agent David Kuhn. Vidal had been in New York for the upcoming Broadway production of his play, “The Best Man.” He vouched for Bowers, whose memoir reveals Hollywood’s sexual secrets from his work as a gigolo to tales about iconic actors.... Vidal told guests he’s never caught Bowers in a lie in the 60-plus years he’s known him in a town “where you can meet 1,000 liars a day.” Also at the party were Dana Delany and Griffin Dunne, Chloe Sevigny, Buck Henry, Bret Easton Ellis, Michael Lynton, Angela Janklow, Mitch Glaser and Doug Liman. -------

Poor Gore looks...very very elderly. It must be hard having been once so beautiful.

by Anonymousreply 18002/10/2012

[quote]Later you became a bartender known for the "Swizzle Stick Trick," in which you stirred cocktails with your penis. Don't take this the wrong way, but it makes me glad I'm a beer man.

[Laughs] Well, this was for people at gay parties, who wanted you to do that: "Here, stir my drink."

by Anonymousreply 18102/10/2012

"This is probably a dumb question but why on earth would Spencer Tracy beard with Hepburn when he had a perfectly good wife/beard at home?"

Again, they weren't a public couple during his lifetime. As far as the public knew then, he was a married man and Hepburn was single, and they kept making movies together.

It was only after his death that it was "revealed" that they were a long-term couple, thereby giving Hepburn retroactive straight credentials. If it was bearding, it was posthumous bearding only, a Hollywood first.

by Anonymousreply 18202/10/2012

WOW! Gore Vidal is aging badly.Scotty said that Dominick Dunne was going to write a book on Scotty? hum? That seems questionable to me because he did write about the rich and famous ,but I don't think he write about something like this.

by Anonymousreply 18302/10/2012

R182 - whatever people think of Hepburn and Spencer and whether they had a genuine relationship or not the bearding stories don't make sense whatever their sexuality of both of them

Katharine travelled a lot during the 1950s and during that time she spent 6 months in Australia and apparently called Spencer every day - it must have cost a small fortune - nobody is that good an actor .

Also the scene on the morning of Spencer's death with his wife coming into the house and finding Katharine with the body and Louise telling Katharine that she thought she was just a rumour . Oouch

by Anonymousreply 18402/10/2012

I wasn't really aware of Tyrone Power before this thread but after viewing pictures and scenes of him he seems as blandly boring as George Clooney.

A hint of gayness makes both of them more interesting, but nothing I'd jack off thinking about.

by Anonymousreply 18502/10/2012

Gore looks like he might have has a stroke. Sad.

by Anonymousreply 18602/10/2012

"Gore Vidal is aging badly" Aging badly? Isn't he almost 90? Good luck if you expect to look like a hunk in your 80s and 90s!

by Anonymousreply 18702/10/2012

R185= Hellen Keller

by Anonymousreply 18802/10/2012

Its interesting that various people in Hollywood are attending this party for Scotty's book. Maybe its possible they may know some inside validity to Soctty's stories verses the public obviously.

BTW, I read one interview on Scotty. He said he knew Jennifer Aniston before she became famous, and in fact she rented a place from him. The author of the article said Scotty said and knows something about her that they could not publish. Is she a lesbian? I have always got that vibe that she is a closet dyke. Many of the gossip columns state that her recent boyfriend is really bisexual.

by Anonymousreply 18902/10/2012

R186, I have notice that too. R187, that is not always the case. My aunts live in a retirement community ,and there are many, many people in their 80's and 90's who look much younger than their age. Also, they are very energetic as well. Aging today verses years ago is changing greatly.

by Anonymousreply 19002/10/2012

r189 yeah I wonder what his deal with Aniston was? What he is keeping a secret? Maybe drugs?

by Anonymousreply 19102/10/2012

Re Aniston, she's probably bi like half of Hollywood, then and now. I wonder when the tipping point will come and people will start to admit it? It would make everyone's lives so much easier.

by Anonymousreply 19202/10/2012

I don't think Gore Vidal's "vouching for" Scotty Bowers lends any credibility to Bower's book. Vidal looks very unwell; I doubt his mind is in the greatest of shape either. I think he supports Bowers just because he likes Bowers; they were probably lovers at one time and Vidal still feels a fondness for him, so he's saying that he "never caught Scotty in a lie." But he doesn't say the stories Bowers tells in is books are the absolute truth, either.

by Anonymousreply 19302/10/2012

Totally disagree, didn't want to believe the book, but I do after reading it and seeing the proof out there. Think there re just a couple of posters out there (probably frustrated Spencer Tracey Katherine Hepburn nuts) who just don't want to accept the truth.

by Anonymousreply 19402/10/2012

R185 - you're kidding, right? Power makes George Clooney look like Jimmy Durante. He was considered one of the most beautiful men who ever lived. Rent The Black Swan, Marie Antoinette, or Suez and then tell me he's blandly boring like George Clooney.

Yowza - him shirtless in those white pants in The Black Swan...George Clooney never looked like that.

by Anonymousreply 19502/10/2012

I'm surprised NO ONE has commented how Bowers misidentified several photos in his book! He claims that in one photo the hairstylist with Lana Turner in the barber's chair was MGM's ace sytlist Sydney Guilaroff. Well, let me tell you, it isn't! The real Sydney was reed thin and balding! Likewise, he claims another photo is that of notorious gay "super agent" Henry Willson, but that man in the photo bears NO resemblance to the actual Willson, who was heavyset with dark hair and was no looker. If a guy goes around writing about famous people he supposedly knew and can't even identify them with the right photos, then EVERYTHING he said MUST be taken with an entire box of salt!! Gore Vidal nonwithstanding, there's no proof to Scotty Bowers' veracity! Interesting that ALL the celebrities in his book are long dead- what about the folks from that era who are still alive, like Mickey Rooney, Olivia deHavilland and her sis Joan Fontaine, the 102-year-old Luise Rainer, Ernest Borgnine, Doris Day, Arlene Dahl, Esther Williams, Kirk Douglas, Louis Jourdan, Shirley Temple, and other over-80 aged stars? What a phony!!!!

by Anonymousreply 19602/10/2012

IIRC, the Tyrone Power scat rumour was mentioned in the original "Hollywood Babylon" book, but was deleted before the book was published. (I think it might have shown up in the French version, or something.)

Similarly, Laurence Olivier is alleged to have written openly about his bisexuality in his autobiography, but removed the relevant passages before publication under pressure from his children. The only thing I find difficult to believe about this particular rumour is that someone as goodlooking, charming and talented as Larry would want to sleep with Danny Kaye of all people.

by Anonymousreply 19702/10/2012

I wouldn't be surprised if the gist of what Bowers writes about is true- and he himself believes to be true- but much has been embellished, misremembered or just plain made up. The more you watch and read a lot of old Hollywood bios, the more you hear all the same old stories, always with slight variations and recalled by a different person. I just think they're all reading each others memoirs and it's screwing up with their already wandering minds. I have never read anything about Robert Taylor and Barbara Stanwyck's marriage, for instance, that didn't sound regurgitated from about ten other bios of varied credibility. I would really like to know what the deal was with those two.

Perhaps Tyrone Power's children hated the Fred Guiles book because it made their mother out to be a demented shrew (which I have always assumed she was, LOL) and portrayed Annabella as an angel and the love of his life. The romantic in me always wishes those two crazy kids could have worked it out in the end.

by Anonymousreply 19802/10/2012

Only problem with your list R196 is that Mickey Rooney and Esther Williams are about as credible sources as Darwin Porter.

by Anonymousreply 19902/10/2012

"Totally disagree, didn't want to believe the book, but I do after reading it and seeing the proof out there. Think there re just a couple of posters out there (probably frustrated Spencer Tracey Katherine Hepburn nuts) who just don't want to accept the truth."

WHAT "proof?" Tell us all what "proof" there is to confirm all the insane stories in Bower's book? That's just it; there is no proof. That's been mentioned many times in articles about Scotty Bowers. He has nothing to back up his claims; you just have to believe what he says or not.

I don't think Scotty Bowers would know that "the truth" if it bit him on his eldergay rump. His stories seem just that: stories, the result of an overactive imagination and a tendency to indulge in fantasies.

by Anonymousreply 20002/10/2012

R198 - you're right as far as the Guiles book. and you're right that Linda was a shrew and Annabella was a lovely woman who was the love of Power's life. The letters they wrote one another are really something, and he did try to reconcile with her. I wish they could have worked it out too.

I read Olivier's biography and I thought that he did address his bisexuality. He may have cut out some part of that, but I thought he did address it.

All the celebrities in the book are dead because he doesn't want to have his ass sued for writing lies about anyone alive.

by Anonymousreply 20102/10/2012

Bowers didn't pick the pictures, editors do that. You can't blame him for that.

by Anonymousreply 20202/10/2012

It's not that I doubt that Spencer Tracy was gay.

But why would a long "heterosexually" married man in that era need to beard by having a longstanding female mistress? It makes little sense to me. One would say it might be extra careful hiding in plain sight, but in that day and age it would hardly seemed necessary, his having a wife would have surely been enough.

It would appear to be something more complex. That while Tracy was bi or perhaps gay, he and Hepburn were soulmates who were committed to each other as lovers at least in spirit if not also physically, and that his gay sex life was something else entirely.

by Anonymousreply 20302/10/2012

No one seems to feel that Spence and Kate could have merely been very compatable FRIENDS. Best buds. That might be why she felt the need to call him long distance every day while she was on one of her muff-diving tours.

by Anonymousreply 20402/10/2012

>>> he and Hepburn were soulmates who were committed to each other

Only for short on and off intervals. Really.

by Anonymousreply 20502/10/2012

202 - that's really not correct. The author is responsible for the photos and the captions, which the editor can change or move around or eliminate. I used to work at Knopf, and also wrote a book myself. As far as identification of people in photos, it's left to the author as oftentimes the editors don't know them.

I remember Lauren Bacall coming to the office and seeing a photo marked "Jean Howard," and she told us it wasn't Jean Howard. It was just the angle at which it had been taken - the author mistakenly thought it was Howard.

by Anonymousreply 20602/10/2012

R199, Esther Williams is a person who doesn’t hold back, and there is no BS with her. I remember Burt Reynolds interviewing her once and she mentioned the various people she worked with straight out whether she liked them or not and why did she feel that way. It would be great to hear what she had to say about Scotty’s book.

However, as a general rule, and with the other movie stars remaining, there is a certain line that old Hollywood doesn’t cross even if the person or persons is or are long dead. They were taught by the studios to never reveal garbage about other people in Hollywood and never speak badly about another star publicly. I think those who are left feel they still have a duty to keep this front up till the day they die.

R 200, how is this guy supposed to give proof that he had sex with these people? Present photographs of Scotty actually having sex with them? Have some DNA saved on the sheets he had sex with these people? This is isn’t a book in which the author can’t present references or a bibliography of any kind because its his personal, sexual, experiences. Scotty is the primary source of the book, not the secondary source. There was once a letter that was written by Jackie Onaisss when she worked for Double Day up for sale on Ebay. I asked the seller if he had certificate of authenticity? He said, I was a co-worker of hers, so it isn’t possible.

by Anonymousreply 20702/11/2012

R201, it baffles me that Linda was a shrew to Tyrone. She left that Greek god for Edmond Purdom?! That woman was insane! Honey, if Tyrone Power wanted me I would be the man’s slave. I have heard that Linda took Tyrone to the cleaners, and she was known as a gold digger. I remember Susielee said, Tyrone Power was so disgusted and angry when Linda left him. Susielee said Linda left all her personal belongings behind and Tyrone told Susielee and her friends that they could take any of Linda’s clothes or other items if they wanted them. She said he just sat there so upset. However, Susielee said they both destroyed their marriage because they both had affairs on the side, and they had at least to sex orgies at their home that she was aware of. I too agree that it would have been great if Annabella and Tyrone got back together again and lived out their lives together. You can tell there were something special between the two of them. However, the negative side to that is, we wouldn’t have had Tyrone Power’s hottie stud son around because he wouldn’t have been born.

R201, my mother said when she was a kid, she remembers Tyrone Power had a statue made to look like Linda Christian and Tyrone worshiped it. She said she remembers the picture in the magazine. Is there any information on about Linda’s statue? Is it still around?

by Anonymousreply 20802/11/2012

It seems to me someone like Tyrone Power being bisexual, would have had a much easier time being accepted in the military and maneuvering in the military because bisexual people can hide, to a greater extent, that they are attracted to both sexes verses homosexuals. Tyrone was married, and he lived this straight life verses living a more questionable life. In contrast, if he were totally homosexual, Tyrone wouldn't have stood a chance in the slightest degree.

by Anonymousreply 20902/11/2012

You aging Tyrone fangurls need to get a room.

Or at least your own thread.

The guy was a mediocre "actor", if you could call him that, and a thin-lipped, thin-hipped geek.

Sheesh.

by Anonymousreply 21002/11/2012

R201 - According to the DVD feature I saw, Linda and Tyrone posed for a statue for some artist, and I believe there was a statue of Linda nude from the waist up that was displayed in their home. I don't think he worshipped it like one worships a saint, however. I supposed he liked it.

I don't consider him a mediocre actor at all His stage work always received excellent reviews, and when he was allowed to do a decent role as in Nightmare Alley, This Above All, or some of his later roles, he was wonderful.

And I'm not an aging fangurl. Skip the posts you're not interested in.

by Anonymousreply 21102/11/2012

I'm aging...I'm going to be 30 this year.

If any subscribers want to open a Ty thread, I'm there.

by Anonymousreply 21202/11/2012

[quote]The guy was a mediocre "actor", if you could call him that, and a thin-lipped, thin-hipped geek.

Thin lipped maybe, but the guy had child bearing hips, and those high waisted 50s trousers didn't help.

by Anonymousreply 21302/11/2012

I always think this thread is about that Howdy Doodyish-Alfred E. Neuman American Idol guy when I see the title.

by Anonymousreply 21402/11/2012

I've had editors mess up photo captions in magazine articles. And don't get me started on the idiots who write the headlines.

by Anonymousreply 21602/11/2012

Magazines are one thing, books are another.

Re Tyrone Power, I read an article online a couple of years ago about the beauty of his ass, citing Blood and Sand. I cite every movie he did, Son of Fury coming to mind and also Jesse James. And boy his lips looked just fine to me.

There are dozens of youtube videos on him, some are really good.

by Anonymousreply 21702/11/2012

ugh! i haave the book for about 2 weeks now but still cant get started reading it :(

by Anonymousreply 21802/11/2012

And I started a Tyrone Power thread, as requested above. Have at it!

by Anonymousreply 21902/11/2012

I’m reading "Open Secret" by David Ehrenstein. The author says that Hollywood lies about homosexuality and they lie about everything from overwhelmingly important things to pure trivial things.

by Anonymousreply 22002/14/2012

Please read James Curtis' biography of Spencer Tracy in which he debunks Bowers' claims very easily. Another reason to read Curtis' book, of course, is because it is a well written, well researched and factual book. Bowers' book is none of these things.

The following is from Curtis' book at page 882. It's about William Mann's book and Bowers' appearance in that book:

'Bowers is full of glib stories and revelations, all cheerfully unverifiable. He claims, for example, a "long happy association" with Vivien Leigh and another, in a Variety interview, with Tyrone Power. Mann devotes considerable space to establishing Bowers' credibility. ("I've never known Scotty not to the tell the truth," the late Gavin Lambert is quoted as saying.) He then allows Bowers to torpedo himself with the very first statement attributed to him. Bowers describes his initial encounter with Spencer Tracy as having taken place at Cukor's home soon after the end of the war; "That was the first time, but it went on for years. Tracy would be drinking when I arrived. He got loaded. He'd sit there drinking at the table from five o'clock in the afternoon until two in the morning, when he'd fall onto the bed and ask me to join him. . . . And in the morning he'd act like nothing happened. He'd just say thanks for staying over"

What Bowers obviously didn't know when he made that statement is that Tracy was completely sober from the time he was discharged from Doctors Hospital in May 1945 ---- nearly four months before the end of the war --- until well into the fifties. And, of course, he was never the guzzler Bowers portrays him to be. . . . .'

Add to Curtis' comment that Bowers is now changing his story claiming that his first encounter with Tracy was in 1952 during the filming of Pat and Mike. Tracy wasn't drinking during that period either by the way. It's hard to keep the "facts" straight when you are lying.

by Anonymousreply 22102/14/2012

R221, I have read many, many different things that Spencer Tracy was a major big time alcoholic ,and he was an extremely mean drunk with a horrible temper.

by Anonymousreply 22202/14/2012

God R221 - or rather, Sagebrush: how many times must you post that?

"Tracy wasn't drinking during that period either by the way. "

The proof Curtis provides for this dry period is poor at best. He seems too emotionally invested in his subject: not unlike yourself.

by Anonymousreply 22302/14/2012

Spencer Tracy was never "completely sober" for any extended period of time, no matter what ANY biographer says or researches. Far too many demons. He could have been sober at work, but drunk at home, which in H-Town might qualify as "sober," I guess. Some of these people trying to cover up his life remind me of cowboys who drag tumbleweed behind their horse to cover their tracks. It doesn't change the fact that they have been there!

by Anonymousreply 22402/14/2012

I don't understand. What does this have to do with Whitney Houston?

by Anonymousreply 22502/14/2012

R224 - its been known for some time that Tracy was a binge drinker and there were large periods of his life ie years where he didn't drink at all particularly from the mid 1940's. Recent biographers have had access to diaries and his medical records. Having read Bowers book I am skeptical that he would have been able to do anything sexual if he had been drinking as much whisky as Bowers claimed.

by Anonymousreply 22602/14/2012

Yeah, what's the deal with copying and pasting the same post over and over?

by Anonymousreply 22702/14/2012

Crew of films Tracy worked on said he was a mean drunk , but when he acted in front of the camera, he could function professionally. I have known people who were bombed drunk ,but they were able to function professionally and you would never be able to tell that they were drunk.

by Anonymousreply 22802/15/2012

BTW, I have been reading "Open Secret" by David Ehrenstein. The author says when actors who have and who are accused of being gay, they often make the statement like they are flattered that gays think that they are gay but they are not. The author said that is an obvious line closet cases use to stay in the closet. What is so interesting is in Cary Grant's daughter's book, she said her father was flattered that people thought he was gay because that meant he could get all the women he wanted who wanted to have sex with him and turn him straight? I was saying to myself, uh oh! Whoops! Cary Grant's daughter made author, David Ehrenstein's point and obviously she wasn't aware of it.

Also, it is completely ludicrous and laughable that a gorgeous man with Cary Grant's looks needed to go to that extreme to get women to have sex with him. The women were probably running after him.

by Anonymousreply 22902/15/2012

[quote]I read Olivier's biography and I thought that he did address his bisexuality. He may have cut out some part of that, but I thought he did address it.

In Olivier's autobiography he describes experiencing a powerful sexual attraction to a man whom he knew in his 20s whom he does not identify. In context I always assumed that he was referring to his close lifelong friendship with Noel Coward which began when Olivier was still in his 20s. Olivier claimed that he did not give in to temptation however due to his sincere religious convictions-- which sounds highly improbable-- but who knows.

The authorised biography published after Olivier's death devotes an entire chapter towards Olivier's sexual relationship as a young man with an older actor whose name I cannot recall.

by Anonymousreply 23002/15/2012

R230, Susielee said he was definitely gay and he was open about it.

by Anonymousreply 23102/15/2012

Susielee wouldn't know what day it was.

by Anonymousreply 23202/15/2012

I have now got my hands on Scotty's book - it is surprisingly well written (by the ghost writer presumably), and certainly conjures up that vanished world of Hollywood in the 40s when attractive young marines could certainly go places and be things. But Walter Pidgeon - who knew? - my mother's favourite actor!

by Anonymousreply 23302/15/2012

Today The Guardian has posted a review of the book - see link below. What drew my attention was the trashing reader comment by one "Suspira44" - a comment that's been pasted elsewhere on the Web.

So who the fuck is Suspira44? Google it and it turns up a slew of entries. Seems Suspira is a mad General Hospital fan and has an entire Twitter stream devoted to it. One Google entry in particular drew my attention: Suspira44's photostream on Flickr. According to the profile, Suspira is female. On the stream are the usual fan gleanings: pics of - oh surprise (not) - Tyrone Power and his kids. And there is also a folder labelled 'Susies kids'. Mmm: the thick plottens. Question darlings: can Suspira44 be DL's very own, deeply tedious Susie Lee, daughter of a contract player/non-entity? And is she devoting her waning hours to trashing the autobio of Scotty Bowers?

by Anonymousreply 23402/16/2012

R233, I heard Walter Pidgeon was gay years ago.

by Anonymousreply 23502/16/2012

R234, I doubt it. Suspira44’s likes are Bono and Elvis? That doesn't remotely sound like Susielee's personality. She is a high society woman who likes the opera. However, what is interesting, the poster claims she once worked in the publishing business and Suielee was once a journalist and helped promote Sophia Loren's autobiography. BTW, I posted numerous links proving that Susielee is Susan Kasznar whose father is actor is Kurt Kasznar. I'm so tired of going over this again. I posted several links stating she is the daughter of Kurt Kasznar.It’s proven Susielee is the real deal, and I'm fed up with this annoying shit some posters on DL are still trying to pull!

by Anonymousreply 23602/16/2012

It is so tiring that there are so many people who can't accept the fact that movie stars are people too and not gods and goddesses. Its so annoying that Rock Hudson is the only acceptable actor by the masses who they agree was gay end of story. Everyone makes it out like there were only a couple of gay people in Hollywood and the rest were all straight! We have a society of complete frau jackasses! On the contrary, over the years Hollywood has all been thee place that contained a huge! gay population. Also, Hollywood is a place through out the years with an enormous Jewish population. So many actors and actresses changed their names to sound more Anglo Saxon because there was a huge amount of anti-Antisemitism. Gay people in Hollywood had more freedom in the Hollywood crowd over the years because they really didn't give a rat's ass if you were gay, lesbian, bisexual, etc. among themselves. It was just the public that they had to be careful with this fact. Hollywood has always been a place like no other in which anything goes with no limits or restrictions. I once read that gays and Jews saw Hollywood as a haven from a society who had issues with both groups of people.

by Anonymousreply 23702/16/2012

[quote]She is a high society woman

LOL

by Anonymousreply 23802/16/2012

r237 is right - Hollywood since the 20s was a magnet for gays who could be themselves in that California mecca - not only people making and in the movies but all those backstage people ... a hunky young marine who was also discreet and could provide what you wanted was in an ideal position.

Its just like how all those country gays and lesbians gravitated to the big cities - indeed like how I left my Irish town when aged 18 for the high life in swinging London - and I got it, in spades !

Gay culture and the gay lifestyle as such did not begin until the 60s - and the gay liberation era of the early 70s - so back in the 40s and 50s attractive young guys could do what they liked with each other, and for money with older rich men, without thinking too much about it or labelling themselves gay.

by Anonymousreply 23902/16/2012

It's interesting when people on these message boards IMBD, get into a rage when someone brings up that a person is or may have been, gay or lesbian. Yet, IMBD.com doesn't hesitate to indicate who the actor or actress married, divorced, and sometimes indicate who he or she dated.

by Anonymousreply 24002/16/2012

"I was proud of my dick and I was happy to share it," he writes with characteristic immodesty in this juicy, filthy memoir."

Oh my God. If that quote doesn't prove Scotty Bowers is a retard I don't know what does. How could anybody believe anything this pathetic queen says about anybody? He has no credibility at all and has the intelligence of a box of hair.

by Anonymousreply 24102/16/2012

The comment left by "Suspira44":

"I happen to know a bit about this. First of all, Gore Vidal (who thought that Greta Garbo as after him at one point, according to Peter Viertel in a bio of Garbo) is behind this book and pushed Bowers to write it.

Secondly, since when did ANYONE call The Duke of Windsor Eddy? If you were on a first name basis with him, you called him David. And I would have loved to have been there when he called Wallis Simpson Wally to her face. And what about the book that claimed that Wallis was a dominatrix and David loved to be punished? What happened to that story?

Bowers takes the notoriously fictitious Darwin Porter stories and places himself in them. And it seems strange to me that some very excellent bios with very detailed source notes, which this book lacks, don't mention any of these details about some very important people.

Is some of it true Sure. Is it exaggerated? Yes. Having been in publishing myself, I know how editors feel - you can't liable the dead so go ahead and keep trashing them. Just don't mention anyone still alive. The defense against liable is the truth. So why wait until these people are dead to collect your big advance? If it's all true, Scotty, no one could have won a lawsuit against you.

And are there lies? Yep. He admits he lied in the Tyrone Power book, so why should we believe him now We shouldn't. In everything written about Power by his various lovers, he was by all accounts a very sensual man, a very tender lover, and not one bit kinky. Just with Scotty, I guess. Read All Those Tomorrows by Mai Zetterling.

If you want to believe that Katharine Hepburn and Vivien Leigh needed a gas jockey to fix them up, go ahead. Talk about being open to blackmail. Oh, you say Scotty was discreet? Yeah, real discreet. The soul of discretion."

by Anonymousreply 24202/16/2012

R229 is QUOTING David Ehrenstein.

Don't do that again.

by Anonymousreply 24302/16/2012

Like Scotty Bower and Darwin Porter, David Ehrenstein specializes in writing about dead celebs.

by Anonymousreply 24402/16/2012

I get the strong suspira that the General Hospital & Tyrone Power obsessed fanfrau "Suspira44" posts repeatedly on DL....as well as everywhere else.

by Anonymousreply 24502/16/2012

author David Ehrenstein is put in the same category of authors as Darwin Porter? What? Just because David Ehrenstein wrote about people who happen to be dead? Also, David Ehrenstein never said anything derogatory in his book. What the hell is this thread? Frau, message board, IMBD center?

What about that gay stud author William J. Mann who wrote about the history of gays and lesbians in Hollywood? is he demonized on this thread as well?

by Anonymousreply 24602/17/2012

I can believe a lot of Scotty's book but not that legendary icons like Katharine Hepburn or Vivien Leigh needed a gas station pimp to fix them up with sex partners - surely some of those 150 girls he got for Kate are still around - why no confirmation? and it seems Vivien was quite adept at picking up truck drivers all by herself.

OK, Kate couldn't go to dyke bars anymore than married men like Walter Pidgeon could cruise openly - wait a minute, Pidgeon did cruise openly when he picked up Scotty the first time.

Perhaps Gore in his dotage and William K Mann have their own agendas in pushing this "memoir" as part of their campaign to show the whole world is gay or bi .....

by Anonymousreply 24702/17/2012

"You can't liable the dead..."

Said by someone in the publishing business.

Let me guess: Kinko's?

by Anonymousreply 24802/17/2012

Was Gore Vidal friends with any of the people mentioned in the book? or enemies? Its not like Gore needs the money because the man is loaded so I would love to know his motive? I think R247 has nailed it. Gore Vidal has always tired to portray everyone in history that they were gay in his historic novels.

by Anonymousreply 24902/18/2012

Reading it now, I love how it is written as if the reader does not know who anybody is - when describing Cole Porter he has to list all Cole's major hits and songs ! and of course that cole could suck off 20 marines in a row and swallow each time !

by Anonymousreply 25002/18/2012

I love you, r248! lmfao

by Anonymousreply 25102/19/2012

"Reading it now, I love how it is written as if the reader does not know who anybody is - when describing Cole Porter he has to list all Cole's major hits and songs."

I guess he figures that anyone reading his book must be really, really stupid. And he'd be right about that at least.

by Anonymousreply 25202/19/2012

Wow! Its a good thing Scotty didn't mention anything about Judy Garland! Yikes! Judy Garland fans go on a rampage ,and stab people to death if they say anything other than surgery sweet things about the woman's life. Read the comments on Amazon about various Judy Garland biographies and all hell breaks loose!Author, Gerald Clark is a very good author that is very reliable. He wrote a biography on Judy called, "Lets Get Happy" and he used some of Judy's Garland's unpublished autobiography in addition to his fantastic research. These pain in the asses were still not satisfied! There is one biography that was written about Judy that is so candy coated. Oh! BTW, that book received 5 stars from her worshipers.

I think some things that are written out there is bogus crap and other things written just make the subject more human and honest. Fans don't want to read that these people were human. They only want to read that they had no flaws whatsoever and are immortal. and the average people are the ones who have have flaws and are mortal.

You can say the actor or actress was promiscuous, did drugs, drank, mean, whatever, but if you claim he or she were gay, its like a nuclear bomb went off.People flip out!

by Anonymousreply 25302/20/2012

[quote]Was Gore Vidal friends with any of the people mentioned in the book? or enemies?

Bowers says he's a friend. So the technical term may 'very satisfied former trick' (to employ the lingo).

[quote]Its a good thing Scotty didn't mention anything about Judy Garland! Yikes! Judy Garland fans go on a rampage ,and stab people to death

Then he's a dead man. He tells of how Cukor hated her guts and raging about her selfishness on set.

by Anonymousreply 25402/20/2012

If this is solely a cash-in, why would he wait until he's at death's door to write it? I think he is telling a lot of truth. Most of the people in it have been dead a LONG TIME, so if he wanted to smear them without repercussions, he could have done that a good decade or more ago!

by Anonymousreply 25502/20/2012

"Perhaps Gore in his dotage and William K Mann have their own agendas in pushing this "memoir" as part of their campaign to show the whole world is gay or bi"

EXACTLY.

Only a very old person of that era (or a deeply closeted Republican) would react write so childishly about gay sex.

by Anonymousreply 25602/20/2012

Bret Easton Ellis is a fan.

by Anonymousreply 25702/20/2012

"Author, Gerald Clark is a very good author that is very reliable. He wrote a biography on Judy called, "Lets Get Happy" and he used some of Judy's Garland's unpublished autobiography in addition to his fantastic research.'

"Very good author" and "reliable?" "Fantastic research?" Oh, what horseshit!

I read Clarke's Judy bio. It has a lot of sleazy stories in it (in one passage he tells of how Judy got under a table in a restaurant and fellated her gay lover while he was "picking at his appetizer"), but it's obvious that Clarke is a big ol' Judy queen who adores her.

Garland was not known for being a big truth-teller but Clarke takes everything she said seriously and believes every word. The tapes and pages of material that she made in preparation for an autobiography are full of outright lies but Clarke presents it to the reader as though it was the honest-to-God truth. He totally believes Garland's false claims that her mother was a abusive monster in cahoots with L.B. Mayer and lays the blame for Garland's lifelong drug addiction and alcoholism solely on Ethel Gumm. In short, Clarke's biography is a Judy-worshipping load of crap.

by Anonymousreply 25802/20/2012

While the book does read as the Forrest Gump of Cock, what I found oddest was the loving tales of a child being molested by scores of old men.

The romantic regaling of sweet molestation makes me suspect that the author has molested many a child in his time as an adult.

I also find all the shrill (an purely speculative) cries, "HE'S LYING!" very odd. Why do some people have so much vested in the lives of strangers? And why do some gay men think it is the worst "libel" to claim someone famous they worship liked a dick once in a while?

by Anonymousreply 25902/20/2012

"I also find all the shrill (an purely speculative) cries, "HE'S LYING!" very odd."

Not so odd. It's a shitty thing to tell fantastic tales about the sex lives of people who are dead and unable to defend themselves. I'm sure the survivors of the the dead celebrities are pissed off as hell I mean, how would YOU feel is some queen came out with a book that said your father was into scat and golden showers(that's what he says about Tyrone Power)? And I'm sure that Jennifer Grant doesn't appreciate the nasty tales Bowers blithely recounts about her father Cary Grant, the threesomes he suppposedly had with Grand and Randolph Scott. I don't think Scott or Grant would have touched Bowers with a ten foot pole; if they wanted manflesh to fuck they surely could have done better than him.

And the denials aren't "purely speculative." Bowers has NO evidence of proof whatsoever to back up his claims. I'd say it's common sense not to believe something happened when there is nothing to prove that it did, except the blather of a very old queen who obviously needs money.

by Anonymousreply 26002/20/2012

r220 so true.

by Anonymousreply 26102/20/2012

R258, the book was called "Get Happy!" not "Lets Get Happy." It does sound as though either title would be threatening to dwarves.

by Anonymousreply 26202/20/2012

It could be some hollywood insider like Gore Vidal has provided Scotty with information to flesh out his stories.

The book seems very disjointed - it begins with him being an innocent arriving in hollywood in 1946 after the war and starting work at the gas station - as if he was an innocent and knew nothing about the goings on of the early 40s ...

but as he tells his story in the following chapters he is the new kid in town in the early 40s on a weekend pass from the marines, and the first guy who picks him up turns out to be Orry-Kelly ! the famous designer (and a close pal of Cary's - who is not mentioned then). Then George Cukor turns up and invites him to his pool party the next sunday ! Then he is having 3 somes with Cary and Randy - whom I thought lived together in the mid-30s - but this was the early 40s when they were at the height of their carrers and married to women, so they were hardly living together then, so maybe Scotty is getting his wires crossed.

Oh, and he meets Katharine Hepburn at the first Cukor pool party he attends, where she comes across as a very mannish lesbian ... so was Kate a regular at George's famous pool parties then? and it turns out George hates Garland !

It seems too that these guys like Cukor and Cole Porter are only interested in sucking dick - and I presume married men like Vincente Minnelli also .. maybe back then famous queens always paid for every sexual encounter and never wanted a relationship or to live with someone, but just to suck off an endless parade of johns - what a way to live!

And it seems every man he ever met wanted to have sex with him, even all the married ones!

Its a great read but I dont believe a word of it!

by Anonymousreply 26302/20/2012

R263, the story of Grant's and Scott's situations is less clear than you think. Grant's marital status until late in life was one where he had brief marriages every decade or so. Yes, he was connected to women between those marriages. Scott had two marriages, a short one and then, from the mid-1940s to his death, a long one with two adopted children.

As far as the time period you wonder about:

Cary Grant was married to Virginia Cherrill from 1934 to 1935, and he didn't marry Barbara Hutton until 1942.

Randolph was married to the heiress Marion DuPont from 1936 to 1939, but they were apart through much of the time; he had been the best man at her first wedding.

So there was a fair-sized period of time after the old roomies split up (but remained friends) that they were not hitched to women.

by Anonymousreply 26402/21/2012

I feel I am the only one in on the joke - this is surely Gore Vidal's last throw of the dice, a gigantic spoof, on the lines of his novels Myra Breckinridge and Myron - that pansexual world he advocates where everyone can have sex with everyone else regardless of gender or age.

I can well believe Scotty really exists and was pimping out not only himself but also other guys and gals at the gas station back in the 40s - Gore has taken this and added all the star stuff - "spilling the beans" on Hepburn, Tracy and the rest. Scotty seems to get his dates mixed up quite a bit - just after the war in about 1946 he describes a lunch meeting with Hepburn and Cukor and hair stylist Sydney Guilaroff (another happy cient of Scottys of course) and they are arguing over Kate's hair style in Adams Rib, which is a 1949 film !

Also rich famous and goodlooking stars like Cary and Randy would surely have to be very careful if they needed hunky marines to spice up their relationship between all those marriages of theirs.

I don't know how the lesbian scene works but would one of hollywood's top stars like Kate Hepburn want young girls sent to her ? Supposing they talked afterwards ... why have none of them come forward, some must still be alive.

Thanks for the link r264 - I had not seen a few of those pics.

by Anonymousreply 26502/21/2012

Those photos of Cary and Randy are the very epitome of the term "hiding in plain sight."

It is shocking today to look at them and realize how naive the American public must have been back then.

They remind me also of that famous photo of Tab Hunter and Tony Perkins out on a double date with their respective beards.

And will Tab Hunter ever come forward and comment on Scotty's book? Surely he could provide some insight.

by Anonymousreply 26602/21/2012

How many of the women Desi Arnaz had sex with have come forward? We know he was a major womanizer and sex addict - he must have had sex with hundreds of women over the years.

by Anonymousreply 26702/21/2012

Sorry, R267. We only know about Cesar Romero giving him a blow job once.

by Anonymousreply 26802/21/2012

[R267] I think Arnaz went with a lot of hookers. Supposedly Lucy slapped Bowers for fixing him up with women. Another black mark against discreet. How did she know? I assume Arnaz didn't tell her.

by Anonymousreply 26902/21/2012

[263] You would think that some of these people would have lovers tucked away somewhere instead of relying on Scotty all the time. That struck me as well.

[265] Ever since I heard that Vidal is behind Scotty's book I've thought of it as Vidal's last revenge against people he didn't like. That was a lot of people. I wish we had a book from Roddy.

by Anonymousreply 27002/21/2012

We don't know who or what you're talking about r270.

Please learn to reference correctly so we can participate in your conversation.

by Anonymousreply 27102/21/2012

Yes, Scotty has really nothing interesting or different to say about all these stars apart from saying he had sex with them ...

Also no notes or index, at least William Mann's book on Kate Hepburn was well researched and he showed his evidence and notes.

by Anonymousreply 27202/22/2012

Scotty comes across as a saint, he never charged for his services, and didn't even want a cut on the sale of (then hard to get) pornographic pictures he posed for!

Of course gay liberation and the gay lifestyle did not exist back in that post-war 1940s golden era, so young guys (and gals presumably) could sleep with or provide tricks for either sex without thinking about it too much or having to label themselves ... and there wasn't that 24 hour news media, mobile camera phones, or internet or inquisitive press to spoil things - as long as the fan magazines were kept happy!

by Anonymousreply 27302/22/2012

Again, I will repeat what I have said before in my post in R207, how would someone like Scotty’s have a bibliography, notes, etc. when this book is about a man who was an escort and pimp? Who had sex with various people in Hollywood? The only proof Scotty would have is DNA on sheets. Also, Scotty says he doesn't need the money and he was left with 3 homes. So why would a man come out with a book like this who is turning 90 in 2 years?

I totally agree with you R270 about Roddy. Roddy pisses me off because he could have put a huge amount of garbage to rest, and instead he never said a thing in his lifetime. He never even wrote an autobiography! He took the enormous knowledge he had to the grave, which is really awful in itself. Yes I know Roddy was a nice man, but I think someone like him had an obligation to his friends and audiences. I think sometimes being silent is just as bad as those who make up trash! People like Tab Hunter, and a small group of other movie stars who are still alive and who are from that period in Hollywood, could say something that is constructive! Instead we get is stupid silence or they'll just say, that is trash. What they hell is wrong with these people?!

Scotty mentions Raymond Burr was a client. I posted this before about my mother’s friend who was a costume designer in Hollywood back in the 50’s and 60’s. She told my mother that Raymond Burr liked males that were really young that were close to the age of young boys. Years before it ever came out that he was remotely gay. She said everyone in Hollywood knew it and they didn’t think it was a big deal. She said they had their own set of rules, which anything goes.

BTW, I know I should post this on the Tyrone Power thread, but I thought this particular information applies with this thread as well. In author, Gene Shalit's book, Great Hollywood Wit, he has very interesting quotes from famous people. One of the quotes is from actress, Nancy Walker who said the following, which is really revealing:

"Listen, the love between two men is beautiful. I'd love to be between, say, Tyrone Power and Montgomery Clift. Hell, I was born the wrong gender.”

by Anonymousreply 27402/22/2012

R258, I was one of the posters who asked Suielee (whose real name is Susan Kaszner) what authors did she recommend who are reliable and who were not flaky when they wrote biographies? One of the authors she recommended was Gerald Clark who she side she liked his work very much. Also, she said that the one biography that Donald Spoto wrote about Alfred Hitchcock was extremely well done because he complied years of research and information. However, she said his other biographies were badly done. Susielee was once a journalist, who worked for publicity departments, and she worked on various sets for various TV programs. I stick with what she said because she had inside information about the publishing world, and she was really particular about the authors she recommended. Also, she knew many of the authors who wrote about Hollywood. She also said that Charles Higham, and Darwin Porter are terribly unreliable authors.

by Anonymousreply 27502/22/2012

BTW, wasn’t Gore Vidal’s novel, The City and the Pillar was about Tyrone Power? It was about a gay man. Then ironically here Gore is supporting Scotty who mentions having a sexual relationship with Tyrone? This is all really weird and you wonder what is up with Gore Vidal and the Tyrone Power connection? Along with the others mention as well.

by Anonymousreply 27602/22/2012

BTW, I just got the book from the library and I'm ready couple of the comments in the back of the book. One of them is from Dunne's son who is an actor and a successful director. He said positive things about the book. Why would he do that?

Also, the other quote is by author William J. Mann who wrote a biography on Lizabeth Taylor by setting the record straight on her life which he interviewed her children, various, friends etc. He is a well respected gay author. Again, why would this author recommend this book as well?

I think Scotty has some element of truth in this book, but I think what he did was exaggerated the truth to the level of ridiculousness and distorted. I do believe he did have sex with Vivien Leigh because she was bipolar or schizophrenic,and she had a lot of affairs. Also, I remember Susielee said that Sir Laurence Olivier was gay ,and he was in your face open about it in Hollywood. So, maybe he wasn't 100% sexual with Vivien Leigh? Leigh was madly in love with him ,but from what I have read it hurt her greatly that he was gay or bisexual.

by Anonymousreply 27702/22/2012

"Roddy pisses me off because he could have put a huge amount of garbage to rest, and instead he never said a thing in his lifetime. He never even wrote an autobiography! He took the enormous knowledge he had to the grave, which is really awful in itself."

No, he never revealed any dirt, never spilled the beans about the personal or sex lives of anyone he knew or was friends with. That's because he was a class act. By all accounts he was one of the best-liked people in Hollywood, and I guess that's one reason why.

Bowers, on the other hand, is a pathetic queen who is desperately seeking attention by putting out a ridiculous book that has absolutely no basis in fact.

I too think this book is nothing but a big joke perpetrated on anybody dumb enough to buy into Bower's claims. I think Bowers and his fuckbuddy Gore Vidal cooked up the idea of publishing a book with the most outlandlish stories imaginable about the sex lives of bygone era movies stars, all of them conveniently dead. I bet they're giggling their wrinkled heads off at how some people actually believe their tawdry tales. And of course, the money don't hurt either.

by Anonymousreply 27802/22/2012

"Roddy pisses me off because he could have put a huge amount of garbage to rest, and instead he never said a thing in his lifetime. He never even wrote an autobiography! He took the enormous knowledge he had to the grave, which is really awful in itself."

I don't really understand your point. Yes, I suppose Roddy could have debunked false, negative rumors, and I think he did a certain amount of that. But maybe a lot of the rumors weren't false, and he certainly wasn't the type to confirm anything negative. Or am I misunderstanding you?

by Anonymousreply 27902/22/2012

[quote]I too think this book is nothing but a big joke perpetrated on anybody dumb enough to buy into Bower's claims.

Yes, because every claim in the book is so preposterous it is impossible. Famous people simply don't act in unexpected sexual ways behind closed doors.

You are so much wiser than the rest of us to realize this essential truth. Famous people only did what we, as their fans, imagined them to have done and any claims to the contrary are vile lies. Lies, I tell you!

by Anonymousreply 28002/22/2012

I have now got to the bit where Scotty inseminates/fucks a lesbian couple and then a straight couple so the wife could have kids ... and he does it all for free, (though he enjoyed fucking the beautiful lesbian). What a guy ...

might be interesting when we get to the 50s and the Rock Hudson/Henry Willson crowd.

by Anonymousreply 28102/22/2012

[quote]No, [Roddy] never revealed any dirt, never spilled the beans about the personal or sex lives of anyone he knew or was friends with. That's because he was a class act.

[quote]Bowers, on the other hand, is a pathetic queen who is desperately seeking attention by putting out a ridiculous book that has absolutely no basis in fact.

I call bull. Bowers, I think, comes off much more sympathetic in the book (yes, I've read it) and why shouldn't he cash in. I loved it and remember the long-ago stories of that Richland gas station on Hollywood Blvd. I always hoped someone would write about it. I was thrilled when Scotty himself did.

Roddy (see the part where he snubs Scotty) was a nasty queen, unless you were famous and he was kissing your ass at one of his dinner parties. Living in his glass closet, he advised everyone to be discreet. He told Sal Mineo to ditch his lifestyle as it was getting out that he was hitting the gay bars. Sal's boyfriend told him off and Roddy cut them off.

by Anonymousreply 28202/22/2012

Scotty is quite good on the 50s crowd - yes Roddy is a vile queen, so is James Dean, Scotty also provides tricks for Tony Perkins - even after he was married to Berry Berenson and had 2 sons, and yes Rock's wife Phyllis was a lesbian.

Its really amazing when you think how they got away with it, the lesbian secretary marrying the gay superstar - but the studios and the fan magazines all colluded in presenting this happy marriage fantasy - it couldn't happen today - or could it? Is this kind of thing still going on, even in the internet age, and constant media and cellphone camera coverage ... ?

by Anonymousreply 28302/23/2012

"Scotty is quite good on the 50s crowd - yes Roddy is a vile queen, so is James Dean, Scotty also provides tricks for Tony Perkins - even after he was married to Berry Berenson and had 2 sons, and yes Rock's wife Phyllis was a lesbian."

You're astoundingly ignorant. Roddy McDowell was by no stretch of the imagination "a vile queen", you dumb twat. And compared to an asshole like Scotty Bowers, James Dean comes across as positively saintlike. The only "vile queen" around here is Scotty Bowers.

by Anonymousreply 28402/23/2012

"how would someone like Scotty’s have a bibliography, notes, etc. when this book is about a man who was an escort and pimp? Who had sex with various people in Hollywood? The only proof Scotty would have is DNA on sheets. Also, Scotty says he doesn't need the money and he was left with 3 homes. So why would a man come out with a book like this who is turning 90 in 2 years."

He supposedly was a pimp who set up hundreds of hook-ups for Hollywood's elite. And yet he has NO record whatsoever of anything, not even a little black book? He has no proof. He's a liar, a very smooth one, which indicates he might be a sociopath.

He doesn't need the money? Well, nobody here knows the exact state of his finances, so his not needing the money might be another one of his untruths. As for his putting out a book at this late stage in his life...well, my theory is that this attention-craving queen wants the book to be a last hurrah. He wants to die knowing his place in history has been secured: Pimp to the Stars! The gas station attendant who supplied all the homos and dykes in Hollywood with pricks and pussy, the queen who shared threesomes with Cary Grant and Randolph Scott and the Duke ("Eddy") and Duchess ("Wally") of Windsor; that's how he wants to be remembered. And if THAT isn't proof he's a batshit crazy wackadoo, I don't know what is.

by Anonymousreply 28502/23/2012

[R285] You have it right, I think, but the other thing is that he was heavily encouraged by Gore Vidal, who has his own agenda - revenge!

by Anonymousreply 28602/23/2012

I've just finished it and found it a lot of fun - he certainly knew the right people, like those English gays Peter Bull and director Brian Desmond Hurst. I can't though quite get my head around him having sex with fastidious people like the Duke and Duchess of Windsor, Noel Coward or Cecil Beaton ! Surely they didn't mix with the common herd, let along have sex with them ...

Then he says he is making no money (despite having a wife and child to support purely on his gas station earnings) on the sale of porno pix he posed for (hard to get in those days, so they must have made a lot of money) or inseminating childless couples. talk about a knight in shining armour!

Also, you will never see Charles Laughton in the same light ! He also says he does the bar at a party/orgy held by Cary and Randy in 1950 - they can't have been living together then again surely?

by Anonymousreply 28702/23/2012

R287, I once watched one of the ghost hunter shows and they went to a man's house whose property was adjacent to the property where Sharon Tate's residence used to be, and where she was murdered along with there house guests. The man said Sharon and others hunted his home. The neighbor whose house was haunted, and the narrator of the program, said one of the previous owners of Sharon Tate's home was Cary Grant who threw very wild parties in that home. It wouldn't surprise me about Cary Grant throwing wild sex orgies. Also R285, Scotty claims that he didn't use a record book for his sexual dealings because he said it wasn't necessary because he just used his memory. If he wasn't getting pay to have sex with some of these people, why would he keep a log? People usually have an affairs and that is that.

by Anonymousreply 28802/24/2012

R263

There is an excellent biography written on Cukor and it was stated clearly that Hepburn was never a guest at Cukor's Sunday parties - they were strictly for the guys .

Also Hepburn never had the type of hair style that Scotty describes except for a brief period in the mid 1930's where she was doing a movie where she had to dress in drag . Sylvia Scarlett?

by Anonymousreply 28902/24/2012

R289, that is right about Cukor. That is a very good point because in "Open Secret" by David Eherenstein, he too said those Sunday parties were only for Cukor's intimates who were with their boyfriends. Also, Cukor was so deeply closeted that he never went to a party without a female to escort him even though everyone in Hollywood knew he was gay. so why would he make an exception to invite Hepburn? Unless he knew so was a lesbian so he made an exception to invite her? That is just a wild guess ,but author David Eherenstein would have mentioned her at those parties.

by Anonymousreply 29002/24/2012

R286, why would Vidal want to get revenge? Don't get me wrong, I'm not doubting you. Vidal was successful at a very young age ,and he was well connected with the rich and famous. Vidal was very close friends with Paul Newman and Joan Woodward. He even went with them on their honeymoon.

BTW, was there ever any dirt in Hollywood confidential about Paul Newman being gay?

by Anonymousreply 29102/24/2012

Hepburn comes off as a first class tin-plated cunt in every unbiased account I've read of her. No wonder Beaton hated her guts. Thank God she pulled out of Travels With My Aunt after the producers refused to give the student role to her current muff bumper. It allowed Maggie Smith to do her comic magic in the role.

by Anonymousreply 29202/24/2012

I think the other side of the pendulum are when people complain about these books who are fans, complain that their idols are described as flawed or just plain human. It really infuriates me that when average people are stated to do the same things, its no holds barred, but if it is some movie star, its impossible and they are treated like they are immortal, flawless, and they can do no wrong. I think there has to be a balance ,and everything put in the right perspective.

by Anonymousreply 29302/24/2012

R290 Spencer lived on the Cukor estate from about 1951 - I am not aware that he ever attended Cukor's Sunday parties either . I don't Cukor was in the closet or in denial - I think of life being in different compartments . So Saturdays were for different friends - Hepburn and Tracy, The Kanins etc .

Gore Vidal - he is probably still upset about Katharine not like his screenplay in 1959

by Anonymousreply 29402/24/2012

Sounds like a Darwin Porter book

by Anonymousreply 29502/24/2012

How did Scotty say he memorized all those movie stars' phone numbers? Surely he kept a writen record?

by Anonymousreply 29602/24/2012

[quote]He doesn't need the money? Well, nobody here knows the exact state of his finances, so his not needing the money might be another one of his untruths.

Scotty has hired a PR firm to help promote the book, so he didn't do it to leave an historical record - he did it to sell books and make money.

by Anonymousreply 29702/24/2012

r5. it's all subjective, I guess - I can, indeed, picture Ms Hepburn going down on another woman. She had a definite sexual energy about her - but I just never saw it spark with a man; it was all in and upon herself.

by Anonymousreply 29802/24/2012

"Vidal was very close friends with Paul Newman and Joan Woodward. He even went with them on their honeymoon."

W(hy)TF would a couple take another man on their honeymoon?

by Anonymousreply 29902/24/2012

r189, she was also best friends with Chastity Bono in high shool.

by Anonymousreply 30002/24/2012

Oh of course he needs the money now - why else write and promote books? He says that back then he did not profit from all his tricking and setting up tricks for others ...

getting back to that phoney marriage of Rock and Phyllis - I am amazed at how they got away with it and how all the fan magazines and publicity went along with it. but of course there was less surveillance on the stars private lives then. Stars also had morals clauses in their contracts so were certainly taking a risk if hosting or attending orgies ....

That agent Henry Willson was also according to Scotty, a total top - so presumably he fucked all his clients like Guy, Rory, Rock and the rest ... all the others seemed to be just cock-suckers!

by Anonymousreply 30102/24/2012

[quote]That is just a wild guess ,but author David Eherenstein would have mentioned her at those parties.

Ha! David Ehrenstein is just one degree of separation from Darwin Porter and Perez Hilton.

by Anonymousreply 30202/24/2012

[R293] You are correct. I personally like to read about a full human being, not someone falsely put on a pedestal.

[R296] I get the impression that Vidal can hold a grudge, and he is supposedly behind this book. I'm sure he wanted Hepburn, for one, knocked off her pedestal, and a few others too.

[R288] Scotty is full of it. His memory is very faulty, since he gets a lot of things wrong and dates incorrect. Which leads me to believe the stories are remembered incorrectly too.

I remember an incident in my office that, five minutes after it happened, was so embellished it didn't sound like the same event. That's after five minutes. Try after 50 years.

by Anonymousreply 30302/24/2012

[R299] I don't know why Woodward and Newman took Vidal with them on their honeymoon or anywhere else, but I wouldn't exactly call it a honeymoon in the sense that they had been sneaking around together (he was still married) since they met. I saw the bio of Paul Newman and it was very funny because one just doesn't expect (or I didn't) Joanne Woodward to be so blunt. She said they had to sneak around to hotels, and Newman looked at her and said, "Now, there was no reason to say THAT."

From a written bio:

They [Paul and Joanne] took a beach house together in Malibu with the writer Gore Vidal and his partner Howard Austen - a particularly odd arrangement since it had once been hinted in the gossip pages that Joanne and Vidal were engaged.

'That had been at her insistence,' Vidal later recollected, 'and based entirely on her passion not for me but for Paul.' She thought that a fake engagement might force him to leave Jackie once and for all.

Life on the beach was idyllic - apart from the fact that Newman was seeing a psychiatrist to address the genuine pain that was accompanying the break-up of his marriage.

Newman and Woodward got married in Vegas and went to London for a honeymoon and sailed around the Mediterranean with Vidal and I assume Austen. Woodward was a very close friend of Vidal's.

by Anonymousreply 30402/24/2012

William J Mann tried to interview a woman who Scotty claimed had an affair after being set up with Hepburn - she refused an interview and only confirmed that they were friends . She also said that Hepburn had been very good to her . I can believe that Hepburn had affairs with both men and women ( she definitely had an affair with Howard Hughes despite what Scotty claims).

But 150 women - word sure would have got around . Gore Vidal has a grudge and wants to settle scores.

by Anonymousreply 30502/24/2012

R302 have you ever read David Ehrenstein's books? Are we talking about the same David Ehrenstein? He is dull as dish water and his book is too. There is no gossip,and his book is on the scholarly side about gays and AIDS in Hollywood how they were both dealt with in Hollywood. How can you compare a subject like that with Darwin Porter's trash?

by Anonymousreply 30602/24/2012

[quote]Scotty has hired a PR firm to help promote the book, so he didn't do it to leave an historical record - he did it to sell books and make money.

Bitch, he's 89! He's only has himself and his wife to look after, and he's said he owns three houses that were given to him, and he's worked hard all his life, and still is. Has it ever crossed your mind that his claim that he's had a terrific life, and isn't ashamed of any of it might actually be true, and that he actually might not give a fuck for all the uptight bourgeois fanfraus who think it shameful and wrong?

Beaton on Hepburn:

[quote]"she is a rotten, ingrained viper. She has no generosity, no heart, no grace...She is the egomaniac of all time"

by Anonymousreply 30702/24/2012

"Beaton on Hepburn: "she is a rotten, ingrained viper. She has no generosity, no heart, no grace...She is the egomaniac of all time""

She was the opposite of all of that. Very generous to her staff, many of whom worked for her for decades.

by Anonymousreply 30802/24/2012

David Ehrenstein is a self-righteous bitch and used to show up here at the DL drunk. He was an object of humor, now he's an authority? Um, no.

by Anonymousreply 30902/25/2012

"Has it ever crossed your mind that his claim that he's had a terrific life, and isn't ashamed of any of it might actually be true, and that he actually might not give a fuck for all the uptight bourgeois fanfraus who think it shameful and wrong."

No, none of that has crossed my mind, because Bowers is a pathetic old liar who hopes idiots like yourself will take his unsubstantiated tales or pimping and wild sex with Hollywood's elite seriously. It's pretty obvious you don't HAVE a mind.

by Anonymousreply 31002/25/2012

I love how some of these old prisspots in this thread are spitting nails with fury about the "lies" in this book, as if they really know one way or the other.

What I found odd was him claiming that even though he pimped for countless tricks, he never got paid for this service.

Was he really such a bad business man or is he being coy?

by Anonymousreply 31102/25/2012

R311, if he said he got paid, he'd be admitting to a crime. One is allowed to arrange assignations. One is not allowed to procure (or whatever being a pimp is called in that jurisdiction).

by Anonymousreply 31202/25/2012

R312: I wondered about that, too. But he is admitting to turning tricks himself (prostitution), which is also a crime.

Although, now that I think back, I don't recall him ever expressly mentioning taking money.

He did mention one of his Marines friends getting $20 for a BJ, which would be over $200 in today's money.

by Anonymousreply 31302/25/2012

Here's a quote from the unexpurgated Beaton diaries for 1968. It suggests how the money aspect worked. Beaton was 64 at the time, so the comment about how caring he was, are to my mind, very telling.

[quote]Scotty is a phenomenon. I had heard several years ago that the police had caught up with him, that he had quit his racket and [was] out of the running. This was a blow to me, as I am very fond of him, and would have liked to have sympathised....It is five years since I've seen him and five years can create havoc with a man's appearance, but no, Scotty appeared among the bushes of the Beverley Hills Bungalow gardens, just as smiling and trim of form as ever. And his enthusiasm was as great....He is really what is known as a flirt. I asked him how much I owed him and he suggested a sum much smaller than I knew was customary. There is nothing he will not do for me. He is helpful and kind and gentle...He still continues his nefarious actvities. There's always something cooking.

by Anonymousreply 31402/25/2012

He could always admit to pimping. I'm sure the statute of limitations is long past.

I'd be curious to know if he was with Vivien Leigh in New York and London. According to the book I'm reading, she spent very little time in Hollywood.

by Anonymousreply 31502/26/2012

R314, what is your point?

by Anonymousreply 31602/27/2012

I read the book today. I'm glad I didn't have to pay for it because it is written so poorly it makes me wonder if an editor or anyone else at Grove Press ever gave it more than a cursory run-through. To give it his endorsement, Gore Vidal obviously thinks the whole thing is a big joke, and/or he's gotten senile.

Well, his stories are obviously patently ridiculous, the least of which from a logistical point of view. By his telling, he was arranging hundreds of assignations every week but he still found time to drop his hookers off in his car for their dates and be back to pick them up later. And of course he'd be turning tricks of his own or even spending the hours between 5 p.m. and 2 a.m. watching Spencer Tracy get drunk and then going to bed with him. By his account, he was impossibly prolific.

Bowers comes across pretty much as an idiot without a thought in his head or an emotion in his heart. He falls instantly in love with the three main women in his life like some lovesick schoolboy. He is completely unable to reflect upon his experiences except in the most superficial way and thinks that he was super good friends with all of these people when he was really nothing more than a hustler and a pimp. I think that's why he's so adamant that he never took a dime for his services -- because it would destroy the illusion he had built up in his head that he was of value to these people for something other than simply getting their rocks off.

And his tale of meeting and servicing the Duke and Duchess of Windsor is simply too ridiculous to believe. I don't doubt that this man had numerous sexual adventures and met lots of celebrities during the course of his "career." What I don't believe for a second was that the vast majority looked upon him as anything more than just another tradesman to be used and discarded.

by Anonymousreply 31702/28/2012

He says in the book that when he dies, the house he lives in reverts to someone else (Corbin Bernsen, a relative of the previous owner). Which means that Bowers has a life estate in the property but can not pass it on to his wife. I think that explains his reasons for doing the book right there. He needs to make some money so his wife will be taken care of after he dies. He also says he still works as a handyman and bartender at the age of 89, which doesn't sound to me like someone who is well-off.

by Anonymousreply 31802/28/2012

According to Elderlounge, the publication of this book was the single most important thing that has happened or could possibly happen in 2012.

by Anonymousreply 31902/28/2012

Wow! R317, the way you put it, now I feel sorry for the guy. Hollywood is a place where they use people, and then throw them away. Maybe the guy is so messed up from being sexually abused as a child that the guy doesn't know the difference between what is really love and what is not. What are negative sexual encounters with people who are just using each other, and what is intimate loving sexual relationships. I have communicated with a guy who was once a gay prostitute for a while, and he said being a prostitute breaks your spirit, and you feel dead inside. However, he didn't think there were any sexual boundaries in life. He was bisexual and one of the things that he took great pride in was the fact that he sexually used women and dumped them. He also had sex with his friend's girlfriends behind their backs. He said he had a lot of sex with women when he was younger, and that it was tremendous fun. He hurt many women a long the way, but he didn't care and he said tough! He was just selfish and a complete lunatic. I once brought up a movie in a conversation with him about a composer (I forgot who it was) who had an on going sexual affair with his teenage nephew. I expressed how sick that was, and he said to me, how can you be so judgmental?! They might be in love! Uh? whaaa? He didn't understand that it was sick and wrong for an uncle to have sex with his nephew, and the nephew was a very young teenager in addition to that. This guy dumped our friendship and he didn't want to anything to do with me, whatever! BTW, just like Scotty, he too was sexually molested when he was a little boy.

BTW, Does anyone remember what Susielee said about the Duke and Duchess of Windsor? I asked her if she ever met them, and was the Duke gay? She said she never met them, but she had a friend who knew them, and Susielee's friend said that the Duke and Duchess were in love with each other at the beginning, but they grew apart after awhile. The Duke thought it was a big mistake later in his life to have married the Duchess because he felt useless, and wanted to be useful in his life. BTW, she said the Duke was definitely straight. Another lie Scotty is claiming to be gospel.

by Anonymousreply 32002/28/2012

[quote]I do believe he did have sex with Vivien Leigh because she was bipolar or schizophrenic,and she had a lot of affairs. Also, I remember Susielee said that Sir Laurence Olivier was gay ,and he was in your face open about it in Hollywood. So, maybe he wasn't 100% sexual with Vivien Leigh? Leigh was madly in love with him ,but from what I have read it hurt her greatly that he was gay or bisexual.

R277, I like SusieLee, but she is not and could not be the last word on the sex lives of people in the entertainment industry during the Golden Age of Hollywood, which if I have my numbers right actually predates SusieLee. (Sometimes one gets the impression that she knew Errol Flynn and Tyrone Power in their prime, which seems improbable.)

FYI Olivier was not openly gay in Hollywood at any point during his long career. It is also not accurate to characterise Olivier as "100% gay" given his documented history of relationships with both men and women. From reading several biographies of Olivier and his contemporaries, he appeared to have been genuinely besotted by Leigh, at least in the early years of their relationship before her mental illness really took hold and Olivier's role changed from partner to exhausted caregiver.

I do not know if Vivien Leigh had any sort of relations with Scotty, but Leigh is known to have had random sexual encounters with strangers, especially in her later years when she was very frequently non compos mentis.

Hypersexuality is a typical manifestation of mania, and these anonymous encounters had little to do with her own sexual relationship with Olivier and more to do with bipolar disorder, which had no effective treatment when Leigh was diagnosed in the 1940s (lithium carbonate was still in the future).

Back then it was known as manic depressive illness or manic depression, and sufferers were often subject to horrible and ultimately useless forms of treatment. Leigh spent weeks under sedation in hospitals in an attempt to control her mania and had to endure electroconvulsive therapy at a much higher dose than is standard practice nowadays.

by Anonymousreply 32102/28/2012

I understand what you are saying about Susielee R321, however, I would take what she said about Hollywood over Scotty Bowers any time. We need her at a time like this with Scotty's book making all of these claims. The one thing that baffles me about Susielee was her statement about Monty Clift.She was way off the mark about him. She claims he was straight?! Uhm huh?! That is like saying Liberace was a rugged tough he-man. Susielee did know Tyrone and Errol when she was just a young girl in the 50's.

by Anonymousreply 32202/28/2012

[quote]I'd be curious to know if he was with Vivien Leigh in New York and London. According to the book I'm reading, she spent very little time in Hollywood.

This is correct. Despite her great success with GWTW and the seeming promise of a great Hollywood career in front of her, by the end of 1940 Vivien was living and working with Olivier in the UK. She did not spend much time in Los Angeles thereafter, which infuriated Selznick who had her under contract-- throughout the war Selznick subjected Leigh to endless cables demanding to know when she would return to Hollywood.

Vivien's compulsive anonymous hookups marked her deteriorating psychological wellbeing in the mid to late 1940s and afterwards. If in fact Vivien was availing herself of Scotty's services (which strikes me as unlikely; from what I have read, Vivien wasn't that organized or discreet about her sexual encounters) I cannot work out when this was supposed to have taken place.

by Anonymousreply 32302/28/2012

[quote]I would take what she said about Hollywood over Scotty Bowers any time.

I agree about Susielee. However, she writes from her own experience. We often had different impressions of people because she knew them as colleagues, and I knew them a my friends parents.

She did not believe that Robert Wagner was Gay. Well, I was at some parties where he definitely had gay sex. Now whether he was gay or just liked the attention, I could not say.

by Anonymousreply 32402/28/2012

R324, that is incorrect, Susielee did say that Robert Wagner was bisexual. Also, she said Tyrone had sex with Diana Barrymore's extraordinary beautiful brother Robin. Robin was totally in love with Tyrone.

by Anonymousreply 32502/28/2012

R325, That was after our exchange.

Since I knew Tyrone Powers' son, (and she knew I really knew him. I was not just an internet fake) she usually acknowledged that we had different experiences with the same people. The thing about Susielee is that she would admit that she was wrong, or at least that there was a possibility of different realities. I miss her.

by Anonymousreply 32602/28/2012

[quote]We need her at a time like this

What for: more rambling anodyne reminiscences without the slightest spark of insight, worthiness, or God help us, wit?

Bowers doesn't have these either, but at least, unlike the desperately boring SL, he can deliver the dish.

[quote]The one thing that baffles me about Susielee was her statement about Monty Clift.She was way off the mark about him. She claims he was straight

That howler should be enough to disqualify any of her tedious essaying on any count.

by Anonymousreply 32702/28/2012

Who do you mean by "Robin" Barrymore?

by Anonymousreply 32802/28/2012

>>>Susielee did say that Robert Wagner was bisexual

Yeah, she got that from Lana's book.

by Anonymousreply 32902/28/2012

R326, what is Tyrone Power's son like? He is stud like his father. However, he has matured in his look recently but he is still super handsome!

by Anonymousreply 33002/28/2012

SusieLee thonght Monty Clift was straight? Princess Tiny Meat was straight? No, I don't think so.

by Anonymousreply 33102/28/2012

R331 as I recall, she said the doorman said Monty was straight because he claimed Monty brought women up to his place. most likely the various women were various shopping buddies of his and they came over to have tea.

by Anonymousreply 33202/28/2012

I know this is off the subject, but why in the world do we not see gorgeous people today like they used to have in those days in Hollywood? or just anywhere? Was there something in the water back then or what?

by Anonymousreply 33303/02/2012

I have no recollection of Susie Lee saying that Montgomery Clift was straight. In fact I don't remember her mentioning him at all, and I'm a fan of his and would have picked up on it. I do know that she is a friend of Jack Larson's, so she knew that Clift was gay without question.

by Anonymousreply 33403/07/2012

Robin Barrymore was really named Robin Thomas. He was the second son of John Barrymore's second wife, Blanche, from a previous marriage. She also went under the pen name of Michael Strange.

Robin changed his name to Barrymore after his Mother married John. He was the half brother of Diana Barrymore.

According to "Damned In Paradise: The Life of John Barrymore" by John Kobler, Robin always considered himself a girl from very early childhood. He spoke of himself as a Princess and liked to dress as one. He died at 28 in 1944 from a drug overdose.

by Anonymousreply 33503/07/2012

I'm in the middle of reading Full Service. Scotty is without a doubt a certifiable lunatic. a family friend of ours, who is a therapist, said children that were sexually abused grow up to be very ,very angry human beings. A huge percentage of prisoners in jail were sexual abused ,and as we all know when a child molester gets locked up in jail the prisoners want to kill him and many times do kill the prisoner who is a molester.

However, Scotty actually praises the men who molested him when he was a little kid! In fact, I think he exaggerates as well when he claims that he had a line of priests paying him for sex when he was 11 or 12 years old because he makes this statement as if he is inflating his ego. It is without a doubt that there are thousands of priests who have molested children, but for Scotty to claim that he had many,many priests go to him for sex and to pay him? It sounds like the guy is boasting about it.

by Anonymousreply 33603/07/2012

R43, since Tyrone Power's children know that their father was bisexual, but keep publicly quiet about their father, and this includes other children and relatives of other rich and famous people, it makes it much more worse not to say anything publicly because there is this no holds barred on speculation, innuendo, exaggeration, etc. that is out there. If they came out and said, their father were gay or bisexual, all of these claims that are out there that are 5% true and 95% false wouldn't manifest in publications of outrageous claims and accusations because there wouldn't be anything really to say because it directly came from the family.

by Anonymousreply 33703/07/2012

[R44] I think Tyrone Power Jr. has stated that his father was bisexual publicly. It doesn't seem to have stopped anyone from speculation and innuendo. I don't think the family likes the trash being published, but I believe they're comfortable with who their father was, and more than likely, they don't want to draw any more attention to it. I also don't think his sexuality makes any difference to any of them. And after 54 years, why make a big deal about it now.

by Anonymousreply 33803/08/2012

R338, I'm not doubting you ,but when and where did Tyrone Power Jr. has stated that?

by Anonymousreply 33903/08/2012

some on this thread mentioned maybe Tab Hunter can verify to a certain extent, if Scotty is full of it. Here is a link to Tab Hunter's webpage and to his email. Maybe if more than one person asks him, he'll say something about Scotty book? I'm just putting it out here as a possibility? Its up to you.

by Anonymousreply 34003/08/2012

Why don't you email him R340 and report back. Ta.

by Anonymousreply 34103/08/2012

Tab, speak to us!!!!

by Anonymousreply 34203/08/2012

Did Tab Hunter have a sexual thing with Tyrone? I saw a picture of Tyrone presenting an award to young Tab Hunter and the way Tyrone looked at young, gorgeous Tab Hunter it seemed like he was attracted to him. The picture is in Tab Hunter's book btw.

by Anonymousreply 34303/08/2012

Tab didn't say, he just said it was incredible to receive an award from someone he had admired so much.

by Anonymousreply 34403/08/2012

[R338] I have no idea where, I just know several people have mentioned to me over the years that he's said it. I also know he couldn't care less about it. He said his father was a wonderful man that he wishes he'd known.

[R340]The thing is, all Tab Hunter can do is verify Scotty's existence, which we all know - he existed. No one can verify anything that happened with all the dead people. That's why the dead people are in the book.

by Anonymousreply 34503/08/2012

R43, since his children know that their father was bisexual, why did Linda Christian insisted that he was neither gay nor bisexual? Did Linda deny it because it would have hurt her ego? Because it might have seem to her like admitting the world's most gorgeous man didn't want to be with her 100%? This is just a guess.

Also, it is widely said, that Tyrone’s friends like Don Ameche, Anne Baxter, Alice Faye, and many others who all said that is complete garbage and he was completely straight. Apparently Don Ameche was just horrified and stunned by that claim. Also, Tyrone's stunt man said that is BS because on the contrary was a lady’s man. Also, the pilot who flew Tyrone and Caesar Romero all over South America and the Caribbean hit the ceiling and said absolutely not!

by Anonymousreply 34603/08/2012

[R346] That's all true. Linda was writing her book and being interviewed during a time when that sort of thing wasn't written about. So I suppose there was no way she was going to talk about it after denying it. He started cheating on her with Anita Ekberg in 1952, so I don't think it had anything to do with her ego - after all, she cheated too. Also, some people feel that a person's sexuality is his or her own business.

One thing I want to point out - this trip that Tyrone took with Caesar, one often gets the impression that it was just Tyrone and Caesar - there were 20 people or so on that trip. It was a 20th Century Fox good will tour! Fox would never have let him go someplace without Fox representatives. In fact, Fox sent someone on his and Annabella's honeymoon, and Tyrone and Annabella left a hotel in the middle of the night in order to lose him. That is the trip during which he slept with Eva Peron.

Also, I don't know what Ameche et al thought, but Tyrone was a ladies man for sure. And as has been stated here, despite anything that Scotty Bowers says, he was very, very discreet.

by Anonymousreply 34703/09/2012

R347, your statement " ... he was very,very discreet,do you mean when it came to his bisexuality? What about the studio spies? They spied on everyone ,and the movie stars were petrified to loose their careers if the studio heads ever received information for example, Tyrone's bisexuality which was a major no, no.

Also, is it possible in Hollywood with all of the gossip, and everyone knew each others business could Tyrone hide his bisexuality?

BTW, what type of guys he liked?

BTW, That is really awful that Fox had sent someone on Tyrone's and Annabella's honeymoon. I didn't know that.

Thank you so much for sharing your information. I greatly appreciate it. You are really wonderful!

by Anonymousreply 34803/09/2012

[R347]Yes I do mean when it came to his bisexuality. The whole studio spies thing I'm sure is one of the reasons he was discreet, which is why I doubt a lot of Scotty's stories - not just about him, but about others. Especially with Power being such close friends with Virginia and Darryl Zanuck, he was pretty careful. Being a leading man, he was extra careful. Tyrone had Fox representatives with him a lot of the time because he was doing publicity. He had Fox with him when he met Linda Christian and her sister. When he wanted to marry Linda, the studio told him he had to wait until his final divorce decree. The studios totally kept tabs on these people, and if they put a wrong foot forward, they were sent to England to make B movies.

Remember that he was so careful that when he wanted to marry Annabella, Zanuck had a fit. Now, if everyone had known he was bi, Zanuck would have been dancing in the streets. Instead he blackballed Annabella. Zanuck knew William Eythe was gay and forced him to get married.

I don't know what kind of guys he liked, but I'm pretty sure Mr. Blackwell wasn't one of them. I keep reading on this board that Tyrone was involved with Moss Hart. That's one of those things, like so many, that get on the Internet and before you know it, it's gospel. He was involved with Lorenz Hart,not Moss, but the specifics of that aren't clear. My friend told me that Hart always gave boyfriends his bed - so evidently he slept elsewhere - and Tyrone was big on raiding the refrigerator at night. I think that was a case where Tyrone was so poverty stricken with holes in his shoes, he was happy for Lorenz's interest and some free food. I am reading a book on Hart now. I don't know if he ever had a true relationship. He liked young actors for the simple reason that they would hang out with him so they could go to a nice restaurant.

The studios owned these people body and soul. Anyone who thinks they could just hop over to the gas station after a premiere to see Scotty without anybody knowing about it and reporting it - the big stars would have had a problem doing that.

by Anonymousreply 34903/09/2012

I have to disagree with you R-349. My partner and his family grew up with many of the biggest stars in Hollywood and the studios did not watch everything that was going on. Day-to-day life just went on. They drove themselves to grocery stores and gas stations, went to restaurants, visited friends, went to the country club. There were many 'sensational' things that happened, too - like beatings, affairs, casual sexual encounters that the studios never got involved in until there was a problem with the press or the police. The police in BH and LA worked to protect the stars. I know about these things because he and his family have told me about them and I saw them for myself years ago when I would stay with them. We are talking about the biggest names in Hollywood.

by Anonymousreply 35003/09/2012

[R350] Yes, and Darryl Zanuck found out that Linda Darnell went to the grocery store wearing slacks and he chewed her out. Do you think he was shopping at the time? You may not have known the studio was around, but they had plenty of people reporting back to them, plus they basically owned the police. They knew pretty much what was going on, and no star went on a trip without a studio rep. Lana Turner always thought the studios broke her and Tyrone up. When something was okay with them, like an affair, or there was a bar fight that was hushed up, they didn't say anything. But when it was something they objected to, they moved right in. I remember my acting teacher telling us about working with Judy Garland and how that woman that befriended her was a spy for the studio.

I agree, they weren't always around - that you could see. And they did not tolerate gay affairs from big stars. Character actors like Laird Cregar, they didn't care.

They certainly knew about that gas station and if you went there, they knew about it.

by Anonymousreply 35103/09/2012

When Ava got beat up Sinatra called my partner's dad - no studio was involved. The big stars - let's just call it Hollywood - a lot of them were friends and neighbors. You'd call a friend to take of something. I suppose the studios were like God - so to speak - but a star like Sinatra- well they were so big who could tell them what to do. I'd say the same for Gene Kelly - well all those big names, Newman, Kaye etc. If you weren't under contract or in a weak situation why would you care, really. Garland was in a very weak, tough situation, she was a risk. That was different.

Who was going to tell Arnaz to stop sleeping around with 7 whores a week? He was the boss.

90% of the screw-ups, the affairs, the other stuff etc - well no one will ever know about them. The Rat Pack is a good example, those guys went to their graves with a mountain of secrets about each other that no one will ever know about. They kept it to themselves.

by Anonymousreply 35203/09/2012

I will say one more thing - most of the married male stars had stuff going on the side with mistresses, prostitutes, call girls, parties, etc. These (now nameless and forgotten) women got passed around. They knew who kept quiet, who they could trust. It was all hush-hush because they didn't want the wives or their families to find out. I saw that for myself. I believe one male star could have sexual relations with 100 women in a year and it never got reported in the press, or their wives found out.

Has anything really changed? All men are pigs they say.

by Anonymousreply 35303/09/2012

I once read that there were cases of movie-stars that picked up guys for sex. Jean Harlow, drove around town and picked up a guy randomly off the street who she thought were sexy ,and who she wanted to have sex with. Jean Harlow never had a problem with guys refusing to have sex with her. Jean Harlow never wore any lingerie nor a girdle, and she also slept naked. she never cease to shock her secretary. Jean was considered a liberated woman who was ahead of her time. Jean Harlow liked guys who were able to see her naked body right through her clothes.Margaret Sullavan would do the same. Clara Bow would carry on sexual affairs with two men ,but not at the same time like a three some. The guys she had sexual affairs with didn't at the time she was cheating on them. They said Clara Bow's sexual appetite was like a guy's.

Scotty said when he was picked up ,and had sex with Walter Pigeon for the first time, Walter Pigeon's staff were away and his wife was away as well. To certain extent that sounds believable to me,but then he says other things that seem hard to believe.

BTW, R349, was it true when Tyrone Power was financially struggling in the Depression, he had sex with wealthy men besides Lorenzo Hart?

by Anonymousreply 35503/10/2012

Only hard to believe by your narrow frame of reference, and others like you. But out there in the greater world, little prissies, there are human tigers burning bright in the forests of the night.

by Anonymousreply 35603/10/2012

My partner's family knew Lucille Ball and Gary Morton very well and that story of her slapping Scotty for setting Desi with women sure sounded like her.

by Anonymousreply 35703/10/2012

The old studios had morals clauses in contracts, so you bet they knew everything that went on and covered it up -- then disciplined the actor/actress.

by Anonymousreply 35803/10/2012

[R355] I didn't know about Jean picking up guys but I did know the rest of it. She was famous for that no underwear etc. She was also pre-code for the first part of her career. Clara Bow, also notorious, was precode for her entire career. Once the Hayes code came in, the studios clamped down on a lot of that behavior.

There's a book on Bow that I think clears up a lot of the stories about her called Clara Bow: Runnin' Wild - the same author also wrote about Jean Harlow, and his research is impeccable.

I imagine if you picked up strangers for sex you did it at your own risk because that really opened you up for blackmail, and I imagine some people were blackmailed.

I can certainly believe Scotty's story about Lucille Ball.

About Tyrone, no, that isn't true. He was dirt poor and had holes in his shoes and stuffed them with paper and stole apples that overhung into the yard where he lived. He also used to squat in empty buildings owned by a friend of the family, Frank Adams, who eventually became his business manager and took all the money he made before 1939.

By nature he was no hustler. Even when he got to Hollywood the second time, he was pretty skinny, and he had been working with Katherine Cornell's company. He may have gotten a couple of good meals out of Lorenz raiding his refrigerator, but I think there was something about Lorenz that he genuinely liked and admired. He lived according to his means. He was raised to be very self-reliant and from what I can tell, he never used anyone for anything.

by Anonymousreply 35903/10/2012

I read the book, hoping for some smutty fun. No dice. Scotty writes about sex with a cheerful and un-erotic, "gee-wizz" style. The word "mischief" is used ad-nauseum. This thread probably has more interesting dirt than the book does.

by Anonymousreply 36003/10/2012

I wonder if there's anyone who has read the book who does not either believe the Luciille Ball story, or at least think it is highly likely?

by Anonymousreply 36103/10/2012

[R361]I'm basing my belief on the fact that she couldn't tolerate Arnaz cheating on her, she didn't understand the culture of having mistresses, and it was one of the things that broke them up.

One has to also believe that she knew Scotty was fixing him up. I suppose that's possible.

by Anonymousreply 36203/10/2012

I've been reading the reader reviews of it on Amazon. There are some excellents points made:

[quote] Just like Samuel M. Steward's life, as written by Justin Spring in Secret Historian: The Life and Times of Samuel Steward, Professor, Tattoo Artist, and Sexual Renegade, Scotty Bowers was a man of his own making!

I think that's very to the point. People who manage to create their own reality, as he did, are rare and fascinating.

I also liked this insightful review by a woman:

[quote]Unfortunately, some ordinary people have chosen not to see that it is possible that one can live life differently then others and without judgement. What has happened here is that our reverence for these ordinary human beings with extraordinary opportunities, has clouded the fact that once you are catered to on every level, you might just want to push the envelope a little further. And so what? What harm has that done except blow your false dreams. This book is an extraordinary story about one man who lived the way he lived by seeing what was being offered to him and how to help and capitalize on it. I cannot help but wonder, if this was me, and I was bright enough to see the path, would I not have done the same? Choosing a better life over pumping gas after serving my country. Be truthful people. This book is captivating and beautifully written. So chill out and enjoy instead of judging.

by Anonymousreply 36303/11/2012

[R363] Well, the fact that she thinks it's well-written completely discredits her.

by Anonymousreply 36403/11/2012

Just finished "Full Service." I felt that Scotty Bowers fully embellished details to attract sales of his book. All of his mentioned acquaintances were either good friends, very good friends or very, very good friends. Also that he didn't profit from all of his "fixins" is a stretch. He tried too hard (no pun) to convince readers that he wasn't gay as he was blowing some guy. On a scale of one to ten, I gave the book a four due to lack of credibility.

by Anonymousreply 36503/11/2012

He claims to have set up over a hundred lesbian liasons for Katherine Hepburn. I don't think Katherine Hepburn would have thought Scotty Bowers good enough to spit on, much less depend on him to provide her with lesbian lovers.

by Anonymousreply 36603/11/2012

R366, that's because you are equating KH with her roles instead of realizing that she was a real person with desires and appetites who could not go looking for love in all the wrong places and still hold onto a career in the movies.

by Anonymousreply 36703/14/2012

This guy is really nuts! I think when he was molested as a child repeatedly,it definitely messed him up in the head. There is something really wrong with this guy. Also he truly is the epitome of bisexual because they can have a wife on the side and screw around on the side not caring who they hurt. I communicated with many bisexuals and they are complete sleaze balls like Scotty is.

Also, what he says about the Duke and Duchess of Windsor I don't buy it! Susielee said she had a friend who knew the couple and she said the Duke of Windsor was not bisexual nor gay in the least. Susieliee said her friend said they did love each other very much at the beginning but they grew apart. Also, he gave Wallis jewelry which contained inscriptions inside of the jewelry that were so sexually explicit, that they were pornographic. If both he and she were switch hitters, he would not go to that extent expressing his intense passion for his wife.

by Anonymousreply 36803/14/2012

Well, our friend who was one of Cukor's boys, the one who told us all about Tracey and Hepburn, also knew the Duke and Duchess of Windsor. He didn't like them but saw them frequently. He said they were mean and rude and he (David) was very fucked up sexually. We heard specific stories but I don't remember them in detail right now.

Where did you hear about these inscriptions? I have never heard that before. Can you tell us were you got that.

by Anonymousreply 36903/14/2012

A new review by a barrister in the Sydney Morning Herald makes this point:

[quote]Gore Vidal was a driving force behind getting this book published. He has spent a lifetime turning gossip into literature and tearing down the walls of make believe constructed around us to hide the truth.

Given he loathed the hypocrisy of Hollywood and most of its inhabitants, I wonder if Vidal sees it as his valediction.

by Anonymousreply 37103/15/2012

r367 you must realizr that Katharine Hepburn was a gorgeous and highly intelligent woman who worked at studios like MGM and RKO that employed thousands of young girls as extras, girls on wardrobe and makeup crews and in all their various departments, who she came into contact with everyday. She wasn't living in some isolated bubble where she didn't have the opportunity to meet desirable young women on her own and need a procurer like Scotty.

I don't doubt that she was lesbian or at least bi (and Scotty would have been aware of that) but find it ludicrous that she would need some gas station attendant/hustler to help her make connections.

You've obviously never worked on a movie or TV set, where making sexual connections is about as easy as can be if you're young and attractive and that's what your'e looking for.

by Anonymousreply 37203/15/2012

...and as you clearly prove, the network of rumors and gossip would be tripled or quadrupled if one did that, hence the need for more covert selection of partners!

by Anonymousreply 37303/15/2012

.....oh yeah, and I can easily imagine sex-starved Kate Hepburn trusting a gas station attendant to set her up 150 times with anonymous gorgeous lesbians!

by Anonymousreply 37403/15/2012

Full Service will appear as #18 on the NON-Fiction Best Seller list in this coming Sunday's NY Times Book Review.

It's become a phenomenon in the publishing world - there's been little publicity and no author tour, no TV or other mass market push - the best-seller status is all due to word of mouth of readers. You don't see Scotty Bower on Charlie Rose or the Today Show, and there is no more Oprah shilling books - this is purely due to readers telling their friends.

by Anonymousreply 37503/16/2012

It's hard to take the guy seriously. I have no doubt there's some truth to what Scotty says, but for me anyway it seemed very exaggerated and added onto over the years.

by Anonymousreply 37603/16/2012

I simply cannot believe that in 1950 (as Scotty says) Cary Grant and Randolph Scott were together and hosting parties/orgies for which Scotty was engaged as barman - surely they were too well established then, and word about these "parties" would have got about ... Cary was about to start on his great era in the 50s when he was ideal with Kerr, Kelly, Loren, Bergman etc, while Scott was in all those lean westerns, they were hardly still living together by then.

Kate Hepburn would be able to meet lots of women should she have wanted to without getting a well known pimp to get women for her, and what kind of women where these ?

The book also is about all the big hitters - the top stars and directors and even Royalty (the Windsors) - Scotty seems too good to have mixed with all the lower key people. I still think Gore Vidal was a key force in getting this book written and published, as his final revenge on hollywood (which didnt even credit him with his work on Ben Hur), and it conjures up his Myra and Myron books ...

by Anonymousreply 37703/16/2012

Scotty is an idiot about Rita Hayworth. Her father molested her repeatedly when she was a kid ,and he said she was snotty to her father? Also he claims that he had tons of phone calls at the gas station form clients requesting sexual services ,and Scotty said the owner of the gas station was naive all that time and had no idea what the phone calls were for? The owner of the gas station had no idea that there was sex going on the bathroom and in that trailer? and there were many,many people come and go?!!! Whaaaa? Please!

by Anonymousreply 37803/16/2012

Scotty was very wrong about Howard Hughes and Hepburn as well . Howard was very sexually active during the 1930's and every biographer who has ever written about Hepburn including William J Mann and her friends agrees that there was an affair - they also lived together for a short time. The telegrams were auctioned after her death - they suggested an affair as well.

by Anonymousreply 37903/16/2012

R379, in Ava Gardner's autobiography she said she was just friends with Howard Hughes and she really liked to hang out with the guy.she also said she never remotely have sex with the guy because he smelled so badly.

by Anonymousreply 38003/16/2012

R377, how would Gore Vidal get his revenge at Hollywood when everyone's dead? Its a little late! What did Vidal have against Tyrone Power, and many others? I'm aware that Tennessee Williams, Truman Capote, and Gore Vidal immensely hated each other, but many of the movie stars mentioned in the book? what is the connection? It just doesn't add up. Also, Dominick Dunn's son, who is a producer and director, gave positive feedback on the book and the biographer, Mann praised the book as well.

Why did Scotty receive many rich and famous people show up at his book party when they hate it when gossip is dropped about them in the tabloids? You would think they would observe Scotty as a piece of crap.

by Anonymousreply 38103/16/2012

[R377]There's absolutely no problem getting big people to book parties - just have free food. That's how we always got them at Simon & Schuster. You get one well-known person to go and they tell all their friends there's free food and liquor and you can have all the big names you want.

Yes and I agree Gore Vidal is behind this whole thing. As far as him getting his "revenge" it's against the whole system, not so much against individuals. I'm sure he didn't even know some of these people (Gore that is).

Famous people will also endorse a book. At one point the going rate was $50,000 for "I loved it - I couldn't put it down," and what you think of their opinion after you've read it be damned. I imagine the price has gone up. I doubt if Dominick Dunne's son or William Mann read through all that tripe.

I'm thinking that Scotty knew a lot of the rich and famous, bartended at parties, fooled around with some people, even fixed some people up. He also perhaps was in a situation where he heard or observed certain things. There had to have been a lot of high-class, exclusive "escort" services male and female around in Hollywood that were extremely discreet. I doubt Scotty and his gas station had a corner on the market, since he doesn't seem to have been very discreet or high class. I'm sure he was someone you called if you needed someone to clean out your garage.

The bottom line is, I'm not buying into things that happened 50, 60, 70 years as being accurate depictions since most people can't tell an accurate story of something that happened last week. Or three people will remember it three different ways. Most of his stories are laughable. Over time the fake pearls become real.

by Anonymousreply 38203/16/2012

R379 - Who knows whether Ava had an affair with Howard Hughes or not but she knew him when he had had multiple break downs, plane crashes and his mental health was on the downward spiral . He always had obssessive compulsive disorder but it wasn't always as bad as it became later on . Hepburn mentions his behaviour in her autobiography.

by Anonymousreply 38303/17/2012

I once read that Tyrone Power hated racism, and he along with Rita Hayworth, Clark Gable,and a small group of other movie stars used to attend parties which the host or hostess was a famous black entertainer verses many others who didn't bother.

Tyrone Power seemed like he was such a sweet heart. In addition to that the guy was a major stud as well.

by Anonymousreply 38403/18/2012

[R384] In Power's film Crash Dive there's a black member of the submarine team, a completely non-stereotypical role. That's an aside; I don't know how much he had to do with that, but it's a delightful change from films of that era.

From people I've talked to, it seems that everyone thought very highly of Power and liked him very much. Someone asked Anne Baxter about him and she said, "He didn't need to act Larry Darrell (The Razor's Edge). He was Larry Darrell." They were very close friends.

by Anonymousreply 38503/18/2012

My partner knew Ava very well and lived with her in London. I have posted about him in here before. His dad was buddies with Sinatra and all the rat pack. He was the doctor that treated Ava when she got beat up. Anyway... he says Ava didn't have an affair with Howard Hughes, it was just a rumor..

by Anonymousreply 38603/18/2012

I read the book. It is patently obvious a ton of it is bullshit. Do I believe he was a gas station attendant who pimped on the side? Yes. Do I believe he was ever close friends to these people or privy to any real secrets? Not a chance.

by Anonymousreply 38703/18/2012

I think he thought he was close friends with all these famous people.

That's precious.

They were just using him.

by Anonymousreply 38803/18/2012

Scotty is getting the last laugh. The book is on the New York Times Best Seller list.

by Anonymousreply 38903/18/2012

I believe him. I don't see why he'd lie about any of this. I'm sure some of it is "embellished" but I get the gist. I had a little problem about him claiming that he never took a dime in "finders fees" for these tricks, and apparently he had a really big one because he really wasn't much in the looks department. He thought of himself as born to bring pleasure to other people, and the scenes of him as a young boy going back and forth between the priests and the poker players got to me. Yeah, I believe it all. And apparently, he's been left with a substantial amount of money.

by Anonymousreply 39003/18/2012

I remember when I was a little kid I stayed home from school one day because I was really sick. I watched this local talk show which they were interviewing Robert Conrad. They mentioned the biography on Tyrone Power by Hector Ace ,and Hector Ace's claim that Tyrone was bisexual. Robert Conrad said, you know I knew the guy and that is baloney and gosh his kids are all upset over this.

Now years later I have been informed that Robert Conrad is a closet case ,and he was a "friend" of Tyrone's which leaves a big question mark in my head. I wonder if those two were an item? Hum? very interesting.

by Anonymousreply 39103/18/2012

I'm still gobsmacked over the claim that there is a biography of Spencer Tracy that is over 800 pages long.

Why? Why? WHY???????????

by Anonymousreply 39203/18/2012

I know R392, that is crazy. It sounds like the author is a huge fan. Where in the world did the author get his information? Practically everyone is dead.

by Anonymousreply 39303/19/2012

The Spencer tracy biography is original but has a lot of interviews from another biography that never got published it was a surprise to me that he went for years without drinking although he was an alcoholic the author is a fan but doesn't gloss over flaws

by Anonymousreply 39403/19/2012

"I believe him. I don't see why he'd lie about any of this."

Why would he lie? For money. For belated fame. For attention. To cement his role in Hollywood:aacording to him, gorgeous men like Cary Grant and Randolph Scott and Tyrone Power were hot for his bod). He's a nobody and he wants to be a somebody before his dies, hence his ludicrous book.

You believe him? You must also believe in Bigfoot, the Loch Ness Monster, Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy and God. Because nothing, absolutely nothing in Bower's book is verifiable. To believe him you have to take everything he says on faith. You obviously have a lot of faith in things that have no basis in reality.

by Anonymousreply 39503/19/2012

Lots of dates must be wrong too - like him bartending, among other duties, for Cary and Randy in 1950 - wouldn't word of these parties/orgies have got out, and stars had to be discreet then due to morals clauses, surely Grant and Scott were too big then to be still living together, even if they were married to women at the time ....

and would Kate Hepburn and Cukor be discussing her hairstyle for Adams Rib at lunch in 1946, when its a 1949 film. Just tiny things like that seem wrong somehow. And if he wasn't making any money from the (hard to get then) porno photos he posed for then however was selling them must have cleaned up !

by Anonymousreply 39603/19/2012

I can't totally fault him for missing on exact dates for some things. It's not as if he was writing about something that happened two or three years ago that's still fresh in the mind.

by Anonymousreply 39703/25/2012

ITA R397! I barely remember the last ten years in specifics, nevermind the 20 or 30 before it. This guy is going back half a century or more!

by Anonymousreply 39803/28/2012

R398, My grandmother had a fantastic memory until the day she died at the age of 87. She talked about how her life was like when she was a little girl and she remembered details as well.Near my grandmother's death, she recited an extremely long poem that she had to memorize in school when she was 10 years old. Schooling when she was a little girl was very intense.The very long poem was still fresh in her 87 year old memory.

by Anonymousreply 39903/30/2012

Thanks for telling us about your 87 year old grandmother. No doubt everyone else alive today will have the exact recall of your grandmother. Thanks for sharing that important information. Can you provide a link to her book so we can all verify the dates she lists?

by Anonymousreply 40003/30/2012

I seriously have many doubts about the Duke and Duchess of Windsor He would have never gotten away with calling him Eddy and no one but no one EVER called the Duchess Wally(except the tabloids) but the one thing that shot out to me was the Duke telling Scotty how he had heard about him from many of his friends in LONDON. The Duke had very few friends in London and the number of times he visited are well documented with most of them having him traveling there alone for family funerals The duchess was invited for the first time in the mid 60's for an unveiling of a plaque to Queen Mary, the Dukes mother. I also find it curious that if they enjoyed themselves as much as he says why did they not ever plan another trip?

by Anonymousreply 40103/30/2012

I think it's bullshit, too.

by Anonymousreply 40203/30/2012

I'd be curious as to how many times Scotty was out of Hollywood. Vivien Leigh spent a great deal of time in England and New York, the Duke and Duchess were all over Europe, Tyrone Power starting in the late '40s was out of the country, toured the country with several plays, lived in England, and then moved to New York City.

by Anonymousreply 40303/30/2012

[quote]He would have never gotten away with calling him Eddy and no one but no one EVER called the Duchess Wally

So a highly attractive working class yankee skamp with a big dick isn't give extra license by two permanently bored wealthy individuals who are always looking for entertaining diversion. Riiiiight. I guess we can forgot the antics of Jimmy Donahue then.

[quote]but the one thing that shot out to me was the Duke telling Scotty how he had heard about him from many of his friends in LONDON.

So you're quite confidant no English friends of the couple ever visited France or talked with the Duke & Duchess of Windsor, and they were quite isolated from the international social set, which has always been overrepresented by homosexuals?

One can only admire the breadth of your certainty.

by Anonymousreply 40403/30/2012

R404 No two people have been written about and followed as closely as The Duke and Duchess of Windsor. The antics of Jimmy Donahue are covered extensively including DANCING WITH THE DEVIL which dealt solely with his "affair" with Wallis Author Christopher Wilson concludes that there was indeed an affair with a sexual component. In the very latest book on Wallis Simpson THAT WOMAN, Author Anne Seeba writes that it was probably the Duke who was first interested in Donahue and the Duchess pursued him out of either jealousy or boredom but she concludes that there was just no way their affair was sexual Donahue was just no capable of it. I wrote that post because it is a subject that I can hold my own with and I stand by everything I said. I made no comment on anyone else mentioned in the book as Ii am not as familair with them.

by Anonymousreply 40503/30/2012

I watched an old YouTube interview with Dick Cavett and Mae West. She said in the interview she kept a dairy. Does anyone know what the hell happened to her dairy? She must have said a lot,and maybe something about some of the people in Scotty's book. here is the link to the interview.

by Anonymousreply 40603/30/2012

This is R406, LOL! I meant to indicate, diary!!! So sorry daaaarlings! My butler didn't bring me my martini when I typed that post and I was utterly modified!

by Anonymousreply 40703/30/2012

I don't doubt he provided hustlers for stars, and Hollywood execs, there are enough quick references in other books to prove he did what he says he did.....but that does not mean that his book is 100% gospel truth. Oh no, far from it, I would say.

To be quite honest, the biggest surprise to me is what a poorly written book it is.

by Anonymousreply 40803/30/2012

R408, everyone knows it wasn't going to be William Shakespeare's literature.

by Anonymousreply 40903/31/2012

No kidding R409.

However, it was not even as (ahem) well-written as People Magazine.

by Anonymousreply 41003/31/2012

[quote] I wrote that post because it is a subject that I can hold my own with

[quote]no one but no one EVER called the Duchess Wally

LOL. Well Princess, unfortunately you better bone up some more. Here's a link I found in two ticks in the diaries of Peter Nichols: he says Lady Altrincham who knew her called her precisely that. I'm sure there were others.

But hey: keep smacking us with your little ivory fan!

by Anonymousreply 41103/31/2012

It was a fun read.

by Anonymousreply 41203/31/2012

R409, there are plenty of competent journalists and ghostwriters out there, like the guy who wrote Tab Hunter's bio and the one who ghosted Andre Agassi's memoir, and Rob Lowe's recent book. Any one of them could have collaborated with Bowers.

by Anonymousreply 41303/31/2012

Wow R411 I am the stupidest person ever I just don't know nothing

by Anonymousreply 41403/31/2012

As anyone with any intelligence knows, Bower's book is a crapfest. He makes all these outrageous claims but has nothing, absolutely nothing, to confirm anything he says. To believe anything this guy says is sheer stupidity.

As it's been said many times, all the people he claims to have serviced are conveniently dead.

I think he's counting on people who will believe anything to buy his stupid book.

Scotty Bowers is an asshole who just wants to make a buck and a name for himself in Hollywood as Pimp to the Stars. How pathetic.

by Anonymousreply 41503/31/2012

[quote]He makes all these outrageous claims but has nothing, absolutely nothing, to confirm anything he says.

Is that you Sagebrush, the hysteric who is all over the Amazon comments? Time for your medicine!

by Anonymousreply 41604/01/2012

At his age, what does he have to gain, R15?

by Anonymousreply 41704/01/2012

R415, I said this before on here. What facts or evidence is he supposed to present, DNA from the sheets that he had sex with his clients? People who right autobiographies are the primary source of the book and they wouldn't have a bibliography section.Especially for some like Scotty's book which is all about his sex life.

by Anonymousreply 41804/01/2012

Re: Jimmy Donahue and Wallis Windsor, I recall a line in which he claimed the deed was finally done, she being by far the keener. Asked how it had been, Donahue said 'Like sleeping with a very old sailor.'

Can't remember the source, but it possibly came from the circle of Nicky Haslam or John Richardson, connoisseurs of high and low.

Of course Donahue is likely to have fabricated to add to his devilish aura. It's just the sort of thing that would be said at that mythical Datalounge bar once imagined here.

by Anonymousreply 41904/01/2012

I once read that Jimmy Donahue was the devil incarnate. Apparently he attacked service men in a hotel room he rented to throw wild parties during the war.If these guys weren't interested in having sex with him, he would stab their testicles to the point that they almost got castrated. He was a sick tyrant.

by Anonymousreply 42004/01/2012

I would say that one piece of evidence that Scotty might have to show is an address book or two with some of the names and phone numbers of the big stars and male and/or female prostitutes he hooked them up with over all those decades. Did he just keep those hundreds of numbers in his head for decades?

I realize this was all years ago but that's the sort of evidence one would want to hold onto as a keepsake, if nothing else, even without the intention of ever writing a memoir.

by Anonymousreply 42104/01/2012

[quote]People who right autobiographies

Oh dear

by Anonymousreply 42204/01/2012

Just finished it. Walter Pidgeon, yes, he was a surprise. So were Louis Hayward and Maxene Andrews of the Andrews Sisters. According to Scotty, Hepburn was quite an unpleasant person, and Tracy hated her. But the studios made it look otherwise. Interesting, Bower's comments on James Dean and Montgomery Clift. I won't spoil the effect by saying more here. Have fun, it's a helluva read.

by Anonymousreply 42304/04/2012

Louis Hayward was a protoge of Noel Coward's. I don't believe Tracy hated Hepburn. She moved in and took care of him while he was sick and by then, there were no studios to care what they did.

by Anonymousreply 42404/04/2012

Would one of hollywood's most famous female stars who was also a closeted lesbian as well as having a carefully constructed 'romance' with another star, really have young women pimped for her - surely its too much of a risk to take, in case they were not suitable or talked to Confidential or any of the other gossip rags who were looking for dirt on the stars? Hepburn surely stayed with women of her own class, like that Laura Harding and others, and her faithful servant/companions who had been with her for years.

Agent Henry Willson would not even let 2 of his guys go to a restaurant together in case it was seen as a 'date', so there always had to be 3 of them ! Thats how paranoid they were ..

by Anonymousreply 42604/05/2012

[quote]I realize this was all years ago but that's the sort of evidence one would want to hold onto as a keepsake,

You may want to hold on to it, R421, because you're in awe of movie stars. Lots of people don't keep written "proof" of everyone they know, famous or not.

by Anonymousreply 42704/05/2012

R423

No proof that Tracy hated Hepburn - every person that knew them commented on their relationship . Mostly positive and warm comments. Also its not generally known that Hepburn and Tracy almost broke up in the 1950's - that was the period where they spent a lot of time apart . If Tracy wasn't happy he didn't need to stick around . He already had a beard if he really wanted a beard - he was married.

by Anonymousreply 42804/05/2012

R203, it wasn't Tracy who needed the beard, it was Hepburn. And because of their on-screen pairings, she was able to use it, use him, to her advantage for the next 50 years.

Bitch.

by Anonymousreply 42904/11/2012

R396: He doesn't say they were "still living together", instead claims that they had 2nd, 3rd homes that they would share from time to time, where they had these parties.

by Anonymousreply 43004/11/2012

Cary Grant once owned the Sharon Tate estate years before she and Roman owned it. When Carey owned that house, he had wild parties going on there.

by Anonymousreply 43104/11/2012

"According to Scotty, Hepburn was quite an unpleasant person, and Tracy hated her. But the studios made it look otherwise. Interesting, Bower's comments on James Dean and Montgomery Clift. I won't spoil the effect by saying more here. Have fun, it's a helluva read."

I seriously doubt that Spencer Tracy "hated" Katherine Hepburn.

I don't know what Bowers had to say about Montgomery Clift. But he had no liking for James Dean. Bowers claims that Dean was one of the few people in Hollywood who he didn't procure for; it seems that Dean was so lusted after by both men and women that he had no need for Bower's services. And handsome movie stars like Randolph Scott, Cary Grant and Tyrone Power DID need his services? What bullshit.

by Anonymousreply 43204/12/2012

[quote]Dean was so lusted after by both men and women that he had no need for Bower's services. And handsome movie stars like Randolph Scott, Cary Grant and Tyrone Power DID need his services? What bullshit.

Dean didn't really care about the closet like Scott, Grant, and Power.

by Anonymousreply 43304/12/2012

"Lots of people don't keep written "proof" of everyone they know, famous or not."

"Dean didn't really care about the closet like Scott, Grant, and Power."

Excuses, excuses...Bowers is NOT credible and no amount of rationalizing its going to change that.

by Anonymousreply 43404/12/2012

Does anybody really seriously believe that either Hepburn or Tracy would have allowed the studio to pressure them into a fake relationship. Also for most of the time the press was pretty hands off in terms of writing about a possible relationship - there were occasional blind items but not anything written in a major way until the 1960's. The fake relationship story doesn't make sense

by Anonymousreply 43504/14/2012

this book is BORING. Scotty insists on going on and on about his boring life...the part that did not involved star fucking. And when he discusses his alleged star fucking there are absolutely NO DETAILS. Because Scotty was "straight" and only doing it for money there are no details about any stars cock size nor what they do in bed...it is all wonderful and "tender"...every one of his fucks. All of them. All exactly the same and all without any details at all.

SAVE YOUR MONEY.

by Anonymousreply 43604/14/2012

Just finished reading the book.

Yeah - style-wise, it isn't very sophisticated to say the least. Lotsa cliched terms and old-ey worlde-ey terms - like referring to Britain as 'that sceptered isle' - are kinda cringe-worthy...

But - I've just read the first couple of chapters of a memoir by a very elderly friend. She's almost as old as Scotty Bowers, and wants to get everything down on paper after being diagnosed with terminal illness. She's fairly well-educated and well-read - certainly more-so than Bowes appears to have been! - and yet she isn't dosimilar in style to him - cliches and all!

Like some of the reviewers cited, I also spotted some unlikely scenarios - like Bowers referring to the Duke & Duchess of Windsor as Eddy and Wally - but as someone else pointed out - if an obliging rent-boy/pimp shows up and does his job so well - who's gonna quibble? Besides - he more than likely only met them a few times at most and maybe arranged the odd trick as well - but has bigged-up his 'friendship' with 'em for the sake of a good tale and marketing purposes.

Ditto the odd inconsistencies with some dates that had me questioning credibility. But he does have a lot of ground to cover - and probably didn't keep any sort of detailed diaries or notes at the time - so prepared to believe the odd flub is to be expected. Years ago i read the autobiography of some Aussie gangster type from the thirties and forties - and he cited an outbreak of bubonic plague in Sydney when he was a child - which was out by twenty years or so. His childhood memory would have been of influenza - but over the years he obviously got it mixed up - and plague probably sounded more dramatic - and no editor at the publishers picked up on it. Just as no editor at Bower's publisher picked up on the odd flubs in Full Service.

My biggest surprise was the longevity of his sexual career - and thought it was a bit of a stretch he was still the go-to guy by the sixties and seventies - but hey - I have to assume he had an incredible address book! And LA has always been full of gorgeous young things on the make...

Other than that, very few surprises. Most of the people he talks about have already been targets of gossip about their inclinations. The only big nsme actor he talks about who liked men - as well as women - that came as a shock was Walter Pidgeon. But I can totally buy it.

Anyway - as has already been pointed out: mostly unverifiable. Reckon a lot if it is probably as he says - but sure his own ego has placed him at center stage and made him a much bigger player and 'friend to the great' than he actually was. And probably more than a few stories are hearsay that he's repeated and recast around himself.

Oh - other big shock: how awful hepburn's complexion was! Acne? Scarring? Apparently it needed a ton of makeup before being filmed. Never realized. Love your retouched and your makeup artist!

(ps: Bower never mentions any STIs till the dawn of HIV/AIDS towards the end of the book - yet I can't believe he managed to have that much sex and escape unscathed. And altho antibiotics were on the scene post war, he was sexually active since very young - yet not a mention of any problems. He seems very honest and open about so much else - so this omission strikes me as odd - or he was extraordinarily lucky!)

(PPS: found it almost too much to swallow about his involvent with Kinsey and co - just seems so unlikely! Again - maybe he did meet the man - but the trips to the Institute with all those young women in tow? Wonder if old airline archives could verify his travels back and forth?? Also - from what I've read elsewhere, Kinsey and some of his colleagues would gave been more than happy to trick with Bowers and some of his male friends - yet Bowers portrays them all as almost unrealistically naive. Sure that while section has been blown up into a much bigger story than it actually was)

by Anonymousreply 43704/15/2012

From the UK Daily Mail:

And, according to reports, a biography of Vivien Leigh describes her insatiable appetite for 'rough trade' - male prostitutes picked up at Scotty's, a Los Angeles brothel that masqueraded as a petrol station.

‘In the 1940s the world’s most recognisable star would drive down to Scotty’s with her friend George Cukor, the initial director of ‘Gone with the Wind’, and they would pick out young men for the night,’ a publishing source said.

‘They would pay the men with gifts such as cigarette cases, jewels or even stocks and bonds."

'She depended on the professional discretion of men not to boast they had just serviced Scarlett O'Hara,'

by Anonymousreply 43804/15/2012

R437 here again! Apologies for typos! Fucking iPhone - and its fucked up spellcheck... Mea culpa!

by Anonymousreply 43904/15/2012

R439 - Darwin Porter strikes again .

Vivien Leigh was in America for an extremely short time in the 1940's - we are talking about a matter of weeks .

I don't believe a word of it

by Anonymousreply 44004/15/2012

Hollywood still holds secrets. e.g. Audrey Hepburn's mother, Baroness van Heemstra ("that bitch Heemstra, as one of her rivals for Hitler's affection once phrased it") was a fantatical Hitler groupie prior to the War. You won't find THAT mentioned in the bios.

by Anonymousreply 44104/15/2012

Really R441? Wow! I got the impression that Audrey Hepburn was Jewish because the movie made on her life story showed her and her mother hiding from the Nazis ,and Audrey nearly died because they couldn't get any food when they were hiding.

by Anonymousreply 44204/15/2012

But - I've just read the first couple of chapters of a memoir by a very elderly friend. She's almost as old as Scotty Bowers, and wants to get everything down on paper after being diagnosed with terminal illness. She's fairly well-educated and well-read - certainly more-so than Bowes appears to have been! - and yet she isn't dosimilar in style to him - cliches and all!

R437, what is the name of the memoir of your friend? It sounds like it would be interesting to read.

by Anonymousreply 44304/15/2012

Well r441 I read (some time ago now) that it was Audrey Hepburn's father who had some kind of nazi past, which is why Audrey had to cut him out of her life when her career was taking off, but apparantly she was always close to her mother.

by Anonymousreply 44404/15/2012

[quote]I read (some time ago now) that it was Audrey Hepburn's father who had some kind of nazi past

Yes, he was attracted to national socialism, and as the story goes, abandoned the family. But what has been totally whitewashed is Edda's pre-war involvement. She was one of the aristocratic groupies around Hitler: one rival claimed she'd seen her coming out of the Fuhrer's room late at night covered in sweat. Don't look for anything in the Hepburn bios. It only appears in a takedown study of Leni Riefenstahl that was published about 20 years ago.

by Anonymousreply 44504/15/2012

[quote]Does anybody really seriously believe that either Hepburn or Tracy would have allowed the studio to pressure them into a fake relationship.

Yes, completely. The studios had brands to protect.

by Anonymousreply 44604/15/2012

[quote]Besides - he more than likely only met them a few times at most and maybe arranged the odd trick as well - but has bigged-up his 'friendship' with 'em for the sake of a good tale and marketing purposes.

I think it is more a case of the help thinking they are "friends" with people who are nice to them because they have something they want.

by Anonymousreply 44704/15/2012

which Hepburn supposedly had bad skin? I saw both Audrey and Katharine in person and neither one of them had bad skin at all.

by Anonymousreply 44804/15/2012

R448, supposedly Scotty claims Katharine had bad skin.

by Anonymousreply 44904/16/2012

Why anyone truly acquainted with the Windsors enough to call the duchess Wallis would claim to call her husband "Eddy" is beyond me. Such a person, to demonstrate credibility, would say he called him "David," or, to keep the absurdity parallel, "Davy."

by Anonymousreply 45004/16/2012

It was really only long after Tracy's death that Hepburn decided to go public with and build up the whole Hepburn-Tracy thing, much to the astonishment of her friends, as William Mann relates in his KATE tome; she who had been so reclusive was suddenly giving interviews left right and centre (including to writer Clive James who did a television interview with her) and she also did her own tv version of her life ME, with a book - perhaps trying to keep a lid on things as she was by then revelling in being America's national treasure, and only wanted us to know only what she wanted to reveal.

by Anonymousreply 45104/16/2012

[R451] Given the fact that he traveled with her when she was dong stage work, and that she took care of him while he was dying, I don't think she built it up.

by Anonymousreply 45204/17/2012

R451 - she spent 5 years of her life looking after him and giving up a lot of acting opportunities . There was no studio control by then

In regard to Hepburn's skin she did have very fair skin with lots of freckles which was prone to skin cancer in later years . I don't think she had terrible skin like Scotty said and it certainly did not deter Howard Hughes - that claim is nonsense.

by Anonymousreply 45304/19/2012

R440: This article interviews Raymond Burr's partner, who backs up Bower's claims...

by Anonymousreply 45404/22/2012

"Bob Benevides’ conversation with L.A. Weekly, then, was something new: factchecking. Reached by phone, previously unaware that he was even mentioned in the book, he confirms everything.

Yes, Benevides admits, it was Bowers who first “introduced” him to actor Raymond Burr in 1959.

Yes, Bowers frequently “introduced” young gay guys to older men like Burr.

Yes, Bowers took no money for making the “introduction.”

“Scotty just liked to make people happy,” Benevides says.

In fact, Benevides confirmed three of the most controversial claims in Full Service: that Bowers, now 88, was the go-to procurer for many Hollywood stars — gay and straight — in the pre–sexual revolution, pre-AIDS, pre-Craigslist, postwar era; that he gladly shared his sex partners of both genders; and that he was not a “pimp” in the traditional sense because he collected money only when he personally serviced the customer."

by Anonymousreply 45504/22/2012

Scotty just tells you what you already know if you have any interest in old Hollywood but he provides NO details. The book is incredibly boring. He ALLEGEDLY bedded all these male stars yet he provides no details about any of the sex...not one detail. Nothing. Sorry I wasted my money on the Kindle version. I don't know anymore now than I did before I read this lame book.

by Anonymousreply 45604/22/2012

I read the book and then a friend of mine bought it and he loved it, and now it's on the bestseller list and Scotty gets to make up for all those "finder's fees" he gave up back in the 30s-70s.

I liked Scotty and trusted him immediately. I'm glad he wrote this book. I'm also glad he didn't write too much detail (though some would disagree, esp. when it comes to Charles Laughton) about the actual sex because some of them were so much older and it didn't sound hot at all.

But good ol' Scotty kept 'em all happy.

by Anonymousreply 45704/22/2012

[quote]I'm also glad he didn't write too much detail

Let me repeat the truth, to counter the p.r. spin all over this thread:

NO DETAILS ABOUT THE SEX AT ALL. NONE. ZERO.

GOT IT?

by Anonymousreply 45804/22/2012

Now now, R458, no need to get your panties in a twist over all this. It's all gossip, right? Scotty's book is gossip. The best gossip includes Sex, Celebrities, and the Closet. This book has it all. I do not work for a PR firm, nor am I connected to Scotty in any way. But, like apparently everyone else who is quoted on him, I liked his "voice" in the book. And I believe him.

by Anonymousreply 45904/22/2012

[quote]no need to get your panties in a twist over all this. It's all gossip, right? Scotty's book is gossip.

So Scotty is just repeating gossip and not writing about his true and actual experiences? Finally someone admits the truth about this boring book.

Thanks R459. I completely agree with you...he is just repeating old gossip, nothing new here.

by Anonymousreply 46004/22/2012

Why on earth all the hate here for this guy and his book? Is it just the knee-jerk cynicism/hatred/bitterness of the DL? I think his book is basically true. And, after all, he's telling us what we've all been waiting to hear for years.

by Anonymousreply 46104/22/2012

Actually R461, he is just repeating what we've already heard many times and he's getting paid for it.

by Anonymousreply 46204/22/2012

R456 clearly hasn't read the book. It's full of detail I should say...almost too much in some instances.

To the other naysayers, read the link at R454.

by Anonymousreply 46304/22/2012

[quote]No detail about dick size, top/bottom...NOTHING

This may be difficult for you to comprehend, but Scotty Bower wasn't writing for Nifty. Perhaps you wasted your money on this book, r464, when the Nifty Archive is available to you and your ilk for free.

by Anonymousreply 46504/22/2012

Crickets still chirping.

Looks like your pr campaign is a flop. And that book is tres boring.

by Anonymousreply 46604/23/2012

When challenged about the 150 women that he claimed he procured for Hepburn Bowers stated that that figure was over 50 years . Are we really expected to believe that Scotty was procuring women for Hepburn until her final years . The woman had advanced dementia and didn't know what day or year it was . So much of what is in the book is simply nonsense. In fact everything he wrote about Hepburn only convinced me that he didn't know her well at all - he certainly wasn't a close friend as he claimed. This also applied to a lot of his other "really close friends".

by Anonymousreply 46704/24/2012

He knew famous people from catering and bartending for them. As for the rest of it, he was strictly low rent.

by Anonymousreply 46804/24/2012

The part about the coprophagia was nasty but is that also salacious? (Maybe according to the the second definition at dictionary.com:

adjective 1. lustful or lecherous.

2. (of writings, pictures, etc.) obscene; grossly indecent.

by Anonymousreply 46904/24/2012

post one incident of this salacious detail that you allege is in the book because yes I have read it and there isn't any. NONE. All he ever says is who he went to bed with and how "tender" it all was. No detail about dick size, top/bottom...NOTHING. Your lame p.r. effort is laughable...I dare you to post one passage from this book that you consider to be revealing so we can all have a good laugh at you.

464, he did post some of the sexual positions they liked. For example, he described Walter Pigeon as being versatile. Walter, gave him a BJ and then Scotty gave Walter a BJ.

by Anonymousreply 47004/24/2012

This book was so boring. I want my $14.99 back!

by Anonymousreply 47104/24/2012

Yes it is boring. Someone on another site was out in Hollywood in the '60s I guess and described him as a "low-rent pimp" and he was pretty sure Scotty had to go back to the drawing board and come up with something hot because the lawyers took out the parts dealing with living people.

The Power stuff is without question made up. Arce didn't just interview Scotty in his book, he interviewed other of Power's lovers and it's evident no one said he was into anything kinky, just as Scotty said - initially. The other thing is, how could all these men and women swear up and down that Tyrone Power was the love of their lives if he was into coprophagia. I somehow doubt people would be saying he was the love of his or her life because there wouldn't have been a second date in most cases.

by Anonymousreply 47204/24/2012

Thanks for that link R454!

That should shut up the doubters. Maybe someone should post it on Amazon!

by Anonymousreply 47304/28/2012

R464, I don't have the book in front of me, I gave it back to the friend who I borrowed it from, but I guess if you want extreme details, then you're correct, Bowers more often than not doesn't go there. But then he wasn't writing for the 1% that actually still watch close-up anal porn.

My definition of too much detail was in reference to his 2-3 page description of Charles Laughton's recipe and preparation and finally eating of a shit sandwich.

You probably wanted to know what was in the shit.

And anyway, as I said above, the book has been basically backed up by others in the link at R454. Did you read that?

by Anonymousreply 47404/28/2012

Oh, and R464, time for your meds dear.

by Anonymousreply 47504/28/2012

If its all made up, what about what Raymond Burr's boyfriend, Bob Benevides, said? He confirmed that Scotty is telling the truth. Also, the author who wrote the biography on George Cukor said Scotty's name popped up a lot in his research.

BTW, R454, thank you for that link to the article. That article solidifies to an extent, that Scotty is telling the truth.

by Anonymousreply 47604/28/2012

Does Scotty have a blog or a Facebook page which gives the public access in order to ask him questions? His PR should have something like that. Maybe he could have a secretary helping him out with he questioning?

by Anonymousreply 47704/28/2012

Public access? Why the fuck would he want that? He's told his story. Like any good grounded big dicked fucker I'm sure he doesn't feel any need to justify or prove it.

by Anonymousreply 47804/28/2012

I don't think anybody said it's all made up. Of course it's not ALL made up.

There are elements of truth to it I'm sure, just as I am sure there are made up and exaggerated elements.

Having worked in publishing I can bet money that after the lawyers removed all the stuff about the living, he was told to go back and spice the book up some more.

There's an unspoken rule in bios or memoirs, stated by none other than Shelley Winters to a friend of mine - "just because it didn't happen to you doesn't mean you can't use it." I don't suppose it's occurred to anyone that some of this may have happened, just not to Scotty.

There are parts of his book I can believe and parts that from other sources I know are bunk.

by Anonymousreply 47904/28/2012

R479 Does anybody else think that Scotty Bowers has a very faulty memory. I think that he has been reading Darwin Porter to jog his memory. For example he refers to meeting Hepburn at a party - she was allegedly wearing a man's suit with a part in her very short hair and straightway told Sooty to fix up .It beggars belief that Hepburn wbo never wore her hair that way (what woman would)except for a 1936 movie role would walk up to a complete stranger at a party , tell him she was a lesbian and ask him to procure a young woman. Bowers also meets Hepburn at one of Cukor's Sunday parties - another error as they were strictly men only.

by Anonymousreply 48004/29/2012

In my younger days, I had a few flings with a couple of well connected, wealthy people in this town, and had lots of flirtations that did not end up having any physical contact. I was good looking, had a reputation for being very well hung and as a friend said, my whole persona was that of someone who did not have any limits to his behavior. A number of therapists have insisted I must have been molested as a child as I exhibited as a teen and young adult what they considered overly sexually provocative behaviors, and now at 55, with my parents diminished and no longer being so actively protective of their fictions, a lot of memories have come back that I can verify with third parties so I am pretty sure I actually was. But I can relate to Scotty. Once in middle age, I have often exaggerated my youth.... a famous person in this town drunkenly approaching a 23 year old me to proposition me to come home with him and his wife really happened.... even though I declined (as I did 95% of the time when I was propositioned) when I told about it in later years, I said I did it as it made a shocking story, and it would have happened if I had said yes. I suspect Scotty is doing the same, only on a bigger scale.

by Anonymousreply 48104/29/2012

[R482] Someone might take it - it may need some good editing first and perhaps not be picked up by the world's largest publisher, but it could find a home.

by Anonymousreply 48404/29/2012

R480 - what do you think about the idea that the truth is mixed up there with a lot of lies and that he also lied to William Mann Hepburn's biographer - certainly he claimed to be a close friend but what is written in the book shows that he actually didn't know her on any level - maybe he met her at a party but that's it . By the way William Mann tried to interview "Barbara" for his book but she only confirmed that they knew each other and were friends. That's it . That was the end of the interview. Just for the record - I don't having a problem with Hepburn having relationships with men and women . Just don't totally believe this book.

by Anonymousreply 48504/29/2012

[R485] I think he easily could have lied to William Mann. I think he has been interviewed by other biographers, perhaps sometimes as an anonymous source or under an assumed name. He could have been truthful with them or exaggerated. He says he lied to Hector Arce but I don't believe he did. I don't trust what he says.

by Anonymousreply 48604/29/2012

R480, Hepburn did where her hair that way for a movie role so it is possible she had to keep her hair short because she was in the process of filming that movie.Maybe Cukor told Hepburn about Scotty before he got to the party? Also, if Hepburn was a lesbain, maybe Cukor felt comfortable to have her around his all male gay parties? Also, in R454's link to the LA article,George Cukor's biographer stated that Scotty's name popped up often when he was doing research on Gorge Cukor.

by Anonymousreply 48704/29/2012

this is R487, Oops! I typed where on the first line when it should say, ware! So sorry, it's the weekend.

by Anonymousreply 48804/29/2012

[R480]According to Scotty he got started after the war. Hepburn wore her hair like that for a couple of films in the '30s, Sylvia Scarlett and maybe Christopher Strong though maybe not.

I'm sure Scotty's name showed up in Cukor's papers as Scotty bartended for parties, and no one is saying that he never was a pimp and never had sex with anyone.

As I understand it also, those parties were men only. What makes you think Hepburn would have even wanted to be there? Back in those days actors filmed six days a week. I'm sure she had other things to do besides go to an all-male party at Cukor's on her one day off.

by Anonymousreply 48904/29/2012

Several biographies including an excellent Cukor biography went out their way to state very clearly that Hepburn never went to the Sunday parties - Cukor had a very strict boundaries between his guests and his parties . In regard to the hair style its the style where Katharine dressed as a man for the movie Syvlia Scarlett which was filmed in about 1935 . There is no way that Katharine was dressing like that in 1951 and there is no way that she would have had a conversation with studio executives about being a lesbian .

I believe that Scotty was a pimp and he was a bartender like he says . But major parts of the biography was not true including the parts about Hepburn and Tracy being pestered by photographers at the Coconut Grove - she had many phobias and one of them was about restaurants and clubs - she never would have turned up in public at the Coconut Grove nor wanted to either with Tracy or without him. She had real anxiety issues.

by Anonymousreply 49004/29/2012

R480 - Vivien Leigh was seriously mentally ill and when she was in the grip of bipoloar disorder she did pick up complete strangers and sleep with them . Its well documented . But the story about cruising down Hollywood with Cukor and picking up complete strangers in the 1940's is nonsense that was invented by Darwin Porter. It never happened because Vivien spent most of her time in England during the 1940's. Did she have some sort of relationship with Scotty . Maybe but its interesting that Scotty didn't actually have many sexual relationships with women . Who knows what really went on.

by Anonymousreply 49104/29/2012

"I don't having a problem with Hepburn having relationships with men and women . Just don't totally believe this book."

Me, too. I think the Hepburn stuff rings laughably false, which makes me doubt the whole book.

by Anonymousreply 49204/29/2012

Here's something I've wondered about - the book about Tracy and Hepburn written by Garson Kanin. Kanin and Hepburn had known one another for years and after that book was published she stopped speaking to him. If she was so anxious that the world see Tracy-Hepburn as a couple, why did she stop speaking to him? Why didn't she thank him for furthering the legend?

I'm just throwing that out - I'm not saying she wasn't gay, nor am I saying she and Tracy had more than a close friendship because I don't know.

by Anonymousreply 49304/29/2012

The book is as boring as this lame $18 p.r. attempt.

by Anonymousreply 49404/29/2012

[quote]The book is as boring as this lame $18 p.r. attempt.

It's a lot more than $18 r494. He has five people who get $50 every time they post something positive about the book on the internet. I already earned my condo fees for the next two years.

by Anonymousreply 49504/29/2012

r493 Hepburn was outraged by the Kanin book which she felt violated her privacy ... she was being reclusive then and didnt need or co-operate with the press - it was only long after Tracy was dead and she was older herself that she decided to burnish the legend and go public with the great romance of her and Spence, giving the reporters and sob sisters the stories they wanted, in all those interviews she did in her later years (always with that red sweater knotted over her shoulders). By then she had become a lovable American Legend and decided to act the part. She also published her own book and documentary giving her version of events and of course making more money ... as we all lapped it up.

Scot Berg's book and then Mann's filled out the picture perfectly ...

by Anonymousreply 49604/30/2012

That Kanin book was a respected best-seller back then when celeb biographies were new and scarce and it was one of the best, by an obvious insider, so Kate must have been furious to see the Kanins making a lot of money out if it, and making money out of her. so no wonder she decided to go public herself when Tracy and wife were no longer around and she and Spence had become this beloved team. It suited her very well.

by Anonymousreply 49704/30/2012

But she waited decades after the Kanin book to speak of the affair....really until she was almost dead herself.

Did she ever forgive Garson and Ruth?

by Anonymousreply 49804/30/2012

Garson and Ruth must have known all Hepburn & Tracy's secrets, having collaborated with them on several films. Garson was I understand gay himself married to the much older Gordon - but they also went along with the popular Hepburn & Tracy mythology, unless of course Hepburn pretended to be angry with them ....

by Anonymousreply 49904/30/2012

Garson was not gay (surprisingly!) and had a long affair in his elder years with Marian Seldes, even while still married to Ruth.

by Anonymousreply 50004/30/2012

Is there a good double bio of Garson Kanin and Ruth Gordon? Their lives intersected with so many celebrities and they both worked from the 1920s well into the 1970s.....there must be lots of great stories there.

I believe they each wrote autobiographies but you know there's not lots of truth or objectivity in those.

by Anonymousreply 50205/01/2012

"But did Garson really have an affair while he was married to Ruth ???"

Garson was a homo.

by Anonymousreply 50305/01/2012

I've read several times that Garson was gay or homo as they said then ... its fun now seeing Ruth in the Garbo film Two Faced Woman in 42, Garbo's last - Ruth is the secretary and even then is recognisably the Ruth of Harold & Maude that we love.

by Anonymousreply 50405/01/2012

I don't know the dynamics of the Hepburn-Tracy relationship. I do know it was extremely close and she admired him like no other.

I told this story before, but when she was doing some Shakespeare thing (As You Like It maybe) he traveled with her and would wait for her back in the hotel. Apparently he came to a performance, though, perhaps more than one. My acting teacher was in the production, and he just loved how Hepburn would kick up her heels - and she was no spring chicken when she played the role.

One night she came in and was no longer kicking up her heels. She'd changed her performance, so my teacher made a comment to her about it. She said, "Spencer thought I looked like an idiot."

I remember going to get head shots, and in the photographer's studio there were three absolutely incredible photos of her that she'd taken of Hepburn when she did Lion in Winter. And next to them she had a letter from Hepburn framed. That's off topic, but I'm just thinking of them now.

by Anonymousreply 50505/01/2012

[R421] About a diary - don't know if Scotty kept a diary but I can tell you one thing he definitely had and possibly would have held onto - a date book, besides an address book. No way he could keep all of his "appointments" in his brain. So it is questionable to me that some of those dates are so wrong.

I can't find the post now, but the person who questioned Tracy and Hepburn pestered by photographers at the Coconut Grove and said that it couldn't have happened because of her phobia - that is 100% correct. Radie Harris said she never printed an obviously phony item in her column. One item she received was that Katharine Hepburn and friends were attending someone's night club act and she knew immediately it wasn't true because Hepburn never did that kind of thing.

She did used to occasionally attend the theater and a friend of mine was in a theater when Hepburn was in the audience - obviously she hadn't told management or they would have spirited her away during intermission - but she stayed in her seat during intermission. Someone saw her and a crowd started to gather and Hepburn literally shrunk in her chair, she was so terrified. She probably never went to another play.

by Anonymousreply 50605/02/2012

My copy arrived today. I'm planning a very late night of reading. What can I say, I'm cheap and tawdry and I love cheap and tawdry reading material.

by Anonymousreply 50705/02/2012

If anyone released a book about the gay stars of today...the author would be murdered.

by Anonymousreply 50805/02/2012

Well R507, you'll get a good night's rest. As soon as you start reading that snooze fest you'll be out.

by Anonymousreply 50905/03/2012

Anyone who believes that book as written is an idiot.

The man was obviously a pimp and a hustler. But he has vastly overstated his importance to the people involved as well as his role in historical events. He comes across as almost simple-minded in his lack of self-awareness. The fact that he had a co-author and an editor makes me wonder just how poorly his raw manuscript was written, as the finished product is execrable.

by Anonymousreply 51005/03/2012

[quote]I can tell you one thing he definitely had and possibly would have held onto - a date book,

Why would he have held onto a date book? Do you really think that in 1945 he knew he was going to write a book?

I throw away my date book every December 31 like most people. Do you live in a house filled with clutter R506?

by Anonymousreply 51105/03/2012

I don't, but my boss who works with famous people keeps her date books. I know several people who do because they use them to write phone numbers and addresses in when they have a meeting and they don't bother to transfer out the information later on.

Plus you're talking about a much more formal time. He did bartending, etc., and I imagine he even had letters confirming party dates, some of which may have been signed by the people he worked for.

As far as knowing he was writing a book, I don't know what he knew. He didn't plan to write a book a year or two ago, I'm pretty sure. All this "enough time had passed" - what he means is, everybody was dead. I'm sure he started putting it together some time ago. Then he had to find a publisher not into fact-checking to take it.

by Anonymousreply 51205/03/2012

P.S. If you do the long tax form, it's a good idea to keep your date books for 7 years anyway to verify business appointments. Another reason my boss keeps her, and a small company I worked for kept theirs.

by Anonymousreply 51305/03/2012

I love tut-tutting school marms who say "he was just a pimp and a hustler"!

I think the interview with Raymond Burr's partner nails it well: he was clearly just a happy-go-lucky character with a big dick trying to provide for his family.

I also believe the tut-tutters have never come across in their limited experiences any Frank-n-Furter polymorphously perverse Pied-Piper types. Otherwise they wouldn't be so dismissive. I've known two. Both could and did seduce straight men endlessly - they recognised no barriers; both could find sex in a desert; and one always had a queue of tough straight neighbourhood boys in their loungeroom waiting to be sucked off as he worked his magic upstairs. These people have a unique personal magic that cuts across any sexual barriers and makes a mockery of them. I believe Bowers was one such, which explains why 'normal' people (both gay and straight) find his tale so hard to believe.

by Anonymousreply 51405/03/2012

[R513]I don't find him hard to believe because of that and he could indeed be that sort of person. I find some of his stories hard to believe because they don't seem to be true based on other people's stories and well-researched books.

by Anonymousreply 51505/03/2012

Some of you people sound like hoarders. And as far as keeping info for seven years for tax purposes, Bower's book is about stuff that happened a half century ago.

In the 1980s and 90s, I had addresses and phone numbers of some of the most famous news makers and news reporters in the world. One day the mailman said I get the most interesting mail of anyone on his route, as he handed me a letter from the president of a European country and a letter from the daughter of a U.S. president. I've moved on since then. Why would I keep addresses and phone numbers from a dozen years ago?

by Anonymousreply 51605/03/2012

So give us some good gossip, R509!

by Anonymousreply 51705/03/2012

All I can say is if I had a "little black book" with the phone numbers of Cary Grant, Katharine Hepburn, Tyrone Power, Vivien Leigh, the Duke and Duchess of Windsor and scores of other movie stars, studio heads, infamous prostitutes and hustlers, I think I may just have held onto it for a few decades to show it off to intimate friends in my dotage as a conversation piece, if nothing else.

Where is Scotty's "little black book?"

by Anonymousreply 51805/03/2012

[R516] I wasn't referring to Scotty's taxes, I was referring to the person who throws his date book out every December 31. We who do the long form can't do that.

I definitely would have kept my "little black book" as well.

by Anonymousreply 51905/03/2012

R506 = Hepburn certainly had an active life and I believe that she was a lot less guarded when she was overseas - she did get out to the theatre and movies .

However she was a complex person and my point about bringing up the phobias is that Scotty obviously didn't know her as well as he is claiming or maybe at all .

Mann interviewed Scotty and its interesting to compare what was said about Hepburn - he claims that Hepburn had a long term "friendship" with this woman Barbara who Hepburn saw for many years . That's not the action of a person who would sleep with 150 women . There's nothing in Hepburn's life to suggest she ever had short term friendships or romantic relationships.

by Anonymousreply 52005/03/2012

[R620] I agree with you - I couldn't find the post that referred to that part of the book.

by Anonymousreply 52105/03/2012

Sure but they're afraid of being sued. If it's true, and you can prove it, that's the defense against libel. But I suspect most people don't want to be even threatened even if they can win. And smaller publishers at least will back down immediately. That's why the Jeffrey Hunter book isn't being published, even though his son doesn't have a case. Small publisher running scared. There was a book on Julia Roberts and she threatened a publisher, and the publisher backed down. The larger ones will not.

However, even though stars may threaten to sue, most will not because they don't want to go through discovery.

I remember photos of John Travolta and a boyfriend on the cover of one of the tabloids - Travolta didn't sue for obvious reasons. He just got married the next week.

Much easier to deal with the dead. I'm sure this book of Scotty started percolating as soon as Hepburn kicked the bucket.

by Anonymousreply 52305/03/2012

I remember not to long before Kate Hepburn died, she read something someone wrote claiming Spencer was gay. She was so furious and in rage. She said Spencer was not gay at all.

by Anonymousreply 52405/04/2012

R524 - its possible that Hepburn did say that Spencer wasn't gay but maybe not because she really wasn't well in the final years - she had dementia

by Anonymousreply 52505/04/2012

I swear R525 she did say it ,and I heard it on TV. Can't remember what show etc. but without a doubt I did hear she said Spencer was not gay.

by Anonymousreply 52605/04/2012

R525 - the article that came out in Vanity Fair about Spencer by Richard Gully in 2001 never got a response from Hepburn - she was seriously ill by then . She never responded officially to the 1995 Leaming book which made some outrageous claims about Spencer . One of the claims was the Spencer suffered venereal disease which caused the deafness of his only son . That was completely false - we know know that his son had inherited a genetic disease and in the 1960's Spencer was watching his son slowly become blind . It also makes me incredulous that some authors had claimed that Spencer must had had some guilty secret that caused him to drink . His life had some very sad moments.

by Anonymousreply 52705/04/2012

R523, what's this about a Jeffrey Hunter book??? I have never heard about it!

by Anonymousreply 52805/04/2012

[R528] That was on another thread, but I knew about it. An author got a contract with a small publisher that does a lot of celebrity bios, and this guy, Paul Green, just came out with a book on Jennifer Jones.

Anyway, I have worked with the Hunter family and I warned him not to get mixed up with them. Unfortunately this publisher demands a signed release from everyone you quote. He wrote to Todd Hunter, who was a little boy when his father died, and asked him if he wanted to contribute. So Todd Hunter said OH YES, he would LOVE to contribute. So against my advice, he sends Todd the manuscript. Todd then wrote to the publisher and threatened him with a lawsuit.

The fact that he has absolutely no case means nothing to this publisher. They're terrified of lawsuits, so after all this work and all these interviews this guy did, they refused to publish.

I don't think there's anything awful in it but the family seems to think that no one knew he was a very bad alcoholic. So there will be no book, and he was too minor for anyone else to pick it up. This place does publish lower-tier celebrities.

I encouraged him to submit it to a gay press because I think a lot of guys like Hunter's looks and are interested in him, but though he won't admit it, Paul got spooked and he's afraid Todd will come after him.

by Anonymousreply 52905/04/2012

Wow, that totally sucks. I love Jeffrey Hunter and consider him to be tremendously underrated in looks and talent. It would have been great to read about his life. Yet, he seemed to be suffering from the effects of alcohol around Custer of the West. Todd's mother "Dusty" was a major league control freak so he gets it honestly.

by Anonymousreply 53005/04/2012

[R530] I agree, but the problem is I think he started drinking eons before Custer - it was real obvious there, though. A friend of his from college saw him in a stage show he did in Milwaukee and visited him at his hotel - this was probably early '60s, and he was drinking at 10 a.m.

by Anonymousreply 53105/04/2012

I heard his last wife was a major bitch.

by Anonymousreply 53205/04/2012

[R532]The second wife was a major bitch. He wasn't married to the third wife long - I met her and as far as I'm concerned she was a major bitch. Also he married her while he was in a blackout. After meeting her, it didn't surprise me. His first wife isn't the warmest of human beings either.

by Anonymousreply 53305/04/2012

[R526] All I know is that Tracy had a major affair with Loretta Young in the early '30s and her priest told her to end the affair and she said she couldn't. Finally his drinking got to be too much and she wrote him a Dear Spencer letter.

Years later, after he died, his daughter Susan gave her the letter. He'd always kept it, and Susan said he had never stopped loving her.

by Anonymousreply 53405/04/2012

I think Jefrey Hunter's first wife was the lovely Barbara Rush, not a cold bitch.

Did Kate know about Spence and Loretta? I can't imagine two more different women (or actresses) than Kate and Loretta.

by Anonymousreply 53505/05/2012

[R535] Barbara Rush is still a beautiful woman, but a cold one, and not a very good mother. I know her son very well.

I'm sure Kate knew about Spencer Tracy and Loretta Young. She was in Hollywood at the time so she would have known anyway even if she hadn't met Tracy later.

by Anonymousreply 53605/05/2012

Katharine knew about the affair just as he knew about her former relationships - he met her ex husband after all . I don't know whether its a fair comparison between Katharine and Loretta who was very young at the time and the affair did not last very long . Katharine was more like Louise Tracy - she was smart and well educated . James Cagney once commented that Spencer liked women with a lot of class and they liked him as well . I think that's true.

by Anonymousreply 53705/05/2012

I should say that Spencer met Laura as well - Katharine's long time friend . They apparently had a rather frosty relationship .

by Anonymousreply 53805/06/2012

"Does Scotty say that he set Spencer up with hustlers or prostitutes?"

He claims to have set EVERYBODY, male and female, up with hustlers or prostitutes, except for James Dean, who he claims was so hot to both men and women that he had no need for Bower's services. Yeah, right. And Cary Grant and Randolph Scott and Tyrone Power DID require his services? The fact is that Scotty Bowers is 25 pounds of bullshit in a ten pound bag.

by Anonymousreply 54005/07/2012

I thought Scotty just set himself up with Spencer Tracy. Tracy just wanted a buddy who would fall into bed with him once Tracy had drank away his Catholic guilt.

by Anonymousreply 54105/07/2012

R540, that is a very good point!

by Anonymousreply 54205/07/2012

[quote]The fact is that Scotty Bowers is 25 pounds of bullshit in a ten pound bag.

Bravo R540...that should be the blurb on the cover of this borrrrrrring ass book. Nothing but a lot of old gossip you've heard a million times. How could someone hang out for many many years ALLEGEDLY with all these stars and not be able to produce even ONE photo of himself in a social setting with one star...not one....none.

Complete bullshit book.

by Anonymousreply 54305/07/2012

Wait!!! You mean to say there aren't photos of Scotty with any of these stars in his book?

I mean....really!

by Anonymousreply 54405/07/2012

If you're that stupid r544 by all means give Scotty your money. Nobody really gives a shit.

by Anonymousreply 54505/07/2012

A little OT, but do any of the sons of Jeffery Hunter look at all like him, r536? I remember seeing one of William Holden's sons on one of the bios of him and he looked like a slightly heavier version of William, who I though was fucking gorgeous. Sadly, I think that Holden son died not too long ago at a pretty young age.

I wonder what it was like for Tracy when Gable and Young went off to make "Call Of The Wild" and she got herself knocked up by Clark. Gable and Tracy were supposed to be great pals and rivals at the time.

by Anonymousreply 54605/07/2012

While speaking of celebrity smut, Datalounge is slipping. I find it ASTONISHING that there is no thread following the announced death of Charles Higham. The Daily Telegraph has published a vicious, petty and very one-sided obituary, clearly penned by a rival. And you don't have to guess hard who it is.

Anyway, can someone please start a thread. Ta.

by Anonymousreply 54705/08/2012

Interesting on Higham - I read some of his earlier works on Bette, Kate, Dietrich etc, he pretty much had the celebrity biography field to himself until David Spoto came along.

In fact I found Higham's book on Olivia De Havilland and Joan Fontaine in a box in the garage yesterday, I must dig it out again now for a re-read !

by Anonymousreply 54805/08/2012

I wanted to contact him as I was interested in his opinion of the Bowers book. But he didn't have an agent or an online presence, so I forgot about it. And now he's dead. All those memories and untold stories, now lost like teardrops in the rain...

by Anonymousreply 54905/08/2012

Charles Higham died for me many, many years ago when he tried to unjustly accuse Errol Flynn of being a Nazi sympathizer. Fucking prick. I'm glad he's gone.

by Anonymousreply 55005/08/2012

Being a nazi sympathizer wasn't such a big deal pre-war. Half, and probably more, of the British and US Establishment were.

by Anonymousreply 55105/08/2012

He took it further than that, suggesting that he was an agent for them. Flynn was a lot of things, but a Nazi isn't one of them.

by Anonymousreply 55205/08/2012

A Nazi sympathizer was not the same thing as being a Nazi, r552.

by Anonymousreply 55305/08/2012

[R546] His son Todd is a blonder version of Jeffrey Hunter,yes. I've never seen his son Scott. Chris Hunter doesn't resemble him, no.

by Anonymousreply 55405/10/2012

[R540]Tyrone Power might have needed Tyrone Power for men, though I doubt it, but as far as women, he could spot a slut a mile away. Christopher Plummer's book confirms this. Power's second wife Linda was a major playgirl, and he had an ongoing affair with Anita Ekberg for years.

by Anonymousreply 55505/10/2012

[R550] Higham was a notoriously inaccurate biographer, and got a lot of information third-hand from Larry Quirk, most of which was incorrect. Flynn's family tried to sue Higham, which of course they couldn't, but they did find out that the only connection Flynn had to the Nazis was that he had a friend who was found to sympathize with the Nazis. Higham apparently had all kinds of information about Flynn's spying activities, but someone went to the Margaret Herrick library and found out that Flynn was at Warner Brothers filming during the times Higham said he was out spying for the Nazis. I suppose Higham figured no one would check that out.

by Anonymousreply 55605/10/2012

Flynn was also a big supporter of the Spanish Republic. He went to Barcelona during the civil war to be wined and dined while everybody else was starving. No nazi.

by Anonymousreply 55705/10/2012

Can any of this be true? It all sounds so far fetched. Sorry I spent the $16 on such trash.

Needs a fact checker. Is there anyone he didn't fuck? How did Madonna escape his wonder weenie?

I mean threesomes with Wallis and Edward? Really?

by Anonymousreply 55804/08/2013

R558 I think a lot of it is true. Why is it so far fetched that he had sex with Wallace and Edward? As for calling him Eddy how would he know that no one called him that if only his family called him David?

It's funny but I had never heard about Walter Pigeon being bi until I read this book. But last week I saw an episode of Perry Mason he was on. Scotty introduced Burr to his long time partner and that has been confirmed by the partner. And I thought well there is that connection.

I think a lot of people have trouble thinking of these long dead stars as being human.

by Anonymousreply 55904/08/2013

I am going to add the best thing about this book is all the information coming out of the wood works from people either trying to prove or disprove it.

by Anonymousreply 56004/08/2013

I read this book and I don't believe one word in it.

by Anonymousreply 56104/08/2013

r561, Ray Burr's partner confirms that at least some of the stuff in the book is true.

I tend to believe it's about 30% true dish and 70% made up shit. The "scat" stuff and the stuff about the Duke and Duchess of Windsor is probably made up. I think he took some true anecdotes and added some outrageous lies and exaggerations to get more attention/publicity.

by Anonymousreply 56304/09/2013

Scotty was a whore and a pimp, street smart and sharp at his profession, but maybe not well educated.

If it's true about the Duke and Duchess perhaps they didn't talk much during their sessions and he wasn't told to address them formally - Sir and Ma'am - while fucking them. Who knows. From what I have read, Wallis was a wild one sexually and I am sure her husband couldn't satisfy her.

by Anonymousreply 56404/09/2013

The suggestion he fucked the Windsors is so incredibly stupid that any bits of fact sprinkled in are just undigested corn on the shit.

by Anonymousreply 56504/09/2013

It's a reasonably fun read if you like old Hollywood gossip, but it should have been promoted as a novel with some autobiographical elements rather than as a memoir. As a poster above noted, the fact that there are no photos of the author with any of the famous people mentioned in the book (all conveniently dead) speaks volumes.

by Anonymousreply 56605/26/2013

If he was a hooker, I wouldn't think they'd take pics with him - not professional for him to ask either?

If he was personal friends, then it is a little weird.

by Anonymousreply 56705/27/2013

Who takes photos of their tricks and hookers? Though it sounds like it would make a great Christmas card. "Instead of including one of those boring letters telling you what I've been doing all year I decided to just show you WHO I've been doing all year..."

by Anonymousreply 56805/27/2013

R562 According to his biographer Robert Mapplethorpe was quite fond of feces.

by Anonymousreply 56905/27/2013

R569 so was Tyrone Power or so it's rumored yeah that's nasty to think about. I have met men online who claimed they were into that and I just would tell them I didn't want to hear the details about it.

R568 someone who is a voyeur would, or they'd take pics of the whore having sex with someone else like a partner.

by Anonymousreply 57005/27/2013

You would be surprised how many people are into scat play.

by Anonymousreply 57105/27/2013

I've heard that as well R571 who was famous besides TP (no pun) and Mapplethorpe who was into it?

by Anonymousreply 57205/27/2013

I'm quite new to reading Datalounge. Lots of people mentioning "Susielee" and all the gossip. Are those threads still around?

by Anonymousreply 57305/27/2013

[quote]“Scotty doesn’t lie about anything,” Allemand says. “He’s a poor kid from a farm in Illinois, and when he got here, his two assets were his big penis and charming personality. That’s what he used to feed his family.”

Sunday suppers must have been quite a picture.

by Anonymousreply 57405/27/2013

I didn't buy 90% of what was in that crappy book. Horribly written, too.

by Anonymousreply 57505/28/2013

Guy Madison had to be in the book. I'm watching a 1946 film on TCM right now called "Till the End of Time". It's not that great but he is incredibly good looking. Just ridiculously handsome in a Brad Pitt sort of way.

by Anonymousreply 57605/28/2013

Guy Madison was in the book about Henry Willson and his "boys." He and Rory Calhoun had a special friendship for awhile.

by Anonymousreply 57705/28/2013

[quote]Why is it so far fetched that he had sex with Wallace and Edward?

More likey Wallace and Gromit.

by Anonymousreply 57805/28/2013

ahem

by Anonymousreply 57911/07/2013

Gore was a busy top, r579. Fred Astaire?

Jackie Kennedy made frequent trips to California to fuck William Holden? Same time, next year?Totally understandable.

I wonder if Tim Teeman was inspired by Darwin Porter?

by Anonymousreply 58011/07/2013

[quote] flag: [ww] [ff] [troll-dar] I'm quite new to reading Datalounge. Lots of people mentioning "Susielee" and all the gossip. Are those threads still around?

You didn't miss a thing. Everyone was a darling, and the rest she didn't know. Didn't have a single anecdote worth recording. But the old queens here wet themselves to think the old lush Had Been There. Of course they're still strung along by bored basement dwellers like Karim & Mr Hollywood who make it all up!

by Anonymousreply 58111/07/2013

Anyone else think the author is a child molester?

The way he romanticized having sex with even very young children . . .

by Anonymousreply 58211/07/2013

It wouldn't surprise me a bit if it were revealed that Bowers was a child molester. He seems sociopathic to me. Anybody who lies like that ("Eddy and Wally?") would have to be.

by Anonymousreply 58311/07/2013

He didn't romanticise it. Stop trolling. He stated matter of factly that he enjoyed it as a boy and felt it didn't harm him. End of story. And a common enough one. Destroys the lives of some. Water off a duck's back to others. Every person & situation is different.

by Anonymousreply 58411/07/2013

Bump

by Anonymousreply 58711/07/2013

Now I think we have to believe what Bowers wrote.

by Anonymousreply 58811/08/2013

"Now I think we have to believe what Bowers wrote.'

Why is that? You have to take his silly stories on faith, because he can't prove any of it.

Bowers reminds me of a character named James "Tappy" Wright, a former roadie. After seeing the PBS special on "American Masters" about Jimi Hendrix, I wanted to know more about Hendrix's death. I came across this information.

Wright, in his 2009 book, "Rock Roadie" claims that Michael Jeffrey, Hendrix's U.K. manager drunkenly confessed to him in 1971 that he murdered the guitar icon by stuffing his mouth full of pills and then washing them down with bottles of red wine. Hendrix's U.S. manager, Bob Levine, exposed Wright as a liar: "Despite the allegations that have recently been made, I need to set the record straight once and for all. Jimi died an accidental death, but he definitely wasn't murdered – not by Michael Jeffrey, his UK manager, and certainly not by anybody connected to him. The whole thing is one giant lie."

Regarding Wright's claim that Jeffrey murdered his star client, Levine says it was all cooked up to sell books. "I used to talk to Tappy every day," says Levine. "I've known him since the early '60s. He told me he was putting together a book about his years in the rock world. That's fine – everybody has a right to do a book if they can. But he told me, "Bob, I need a hook for the book. I need a handle." He needed something that would be a grabber. Well, saying that Jimi was murdered is a grabber; saying that Jimi was murdered by his manager is an even bigger grabber. But it's certainly not the truth."

I told Tappy, "What are you doing making up this story? So you want to sell books – why do you have to print such lies?" And he said to me, "Well, who's going to challenge me? Everybody's dead, everybody's gone. Chas Chandler, Michael Jeffrey, Mitch Mitchell, Noel Redding…they're all gone. Nobody can challenge what I write."

Wow. I can imagine Scotty Bowers saying the same things: "I need a hook for the book...they're all gone...nobody can challenge what I write."

by Anonymousreply 58911/08/2013

"and of course Tyrone liked being pissed on, so we did that. Gore went right along with it.”

Now that I do believe. The Astaire stuff, no. Just no.

by Anonymousreply 59011/08/2013

Fred Astaire was never sexy but especially not post-WWII when Gore might have met him. He wasn't Gore's type in any way. That story makes no sense.

by Anonymousreply 59111/08/2013

I always find it interesting when people come here and start in with their "Lies, lies and damned lies!" routine, as if that carried any more weight than the person whose story they're trying to discredit.

Gossip has always been the same. The stories may be true, untrue, partially true, it doesn't really matter. People will believe what they want to believe and disbelieve what they don't want to believe.

by Anonymousreply 59211/08/2013

Meet Denham Fouts aka "the most expensive male prostitute in the world" back in the '40's. He made appearances in books by Capote, Vidal and Isherwood.

Unlike Bowers, he seems to have not left any kind of memoir behind for us to argue over. He was passed around by some of the richest men at that time.

Wiki has a page on him.

by Anonymousreply 59311/08/2013

"People will believe what they want to believe and disbelieve what they don't want to believe.'

Well, I DON'T believe Scotty Bowers. I don't believe things that have no basis in fact. I think he's a liar who just wanted his nasty book to sell and made up the most outlandish tales he could think of to reel in idiots who like trash memoirs.

by Anonymousreply 59411/08/2013

Oh when I think of all the things those crazy kids on the lot stuck up Guy's butt, I laugh so hard I can't stop.

by Anonymousreply 59511/08/2013

Yes, R582, I do. I've read parts of the book at an indy bookstore where the going retail price was $29.99 (!) and think his early experiences tainted his whole life.

by Anonymousreply 59611/09/2013

Anyone can download a torrent of this book for free.

by Anonymousreply 59711/09/2013

This is a bad book. Bower is as truthful as Darwin Porter and as shallow as a hooker. I wonder how come and some people can lie so easily and use other people to project their big fat lies.

By reading the book i caught him many times writing things that are not believable at all and believe me i tried to be more sympathetic, but in the final analysis you cannot be sympathetic to a person who is such a frivolous douchebag.

In his book he claims that Rock Hudson was not even bisexual. How can he be so cocksure about some other person's sexual life? Bower calls himself bisexual but Rock Hudson gay. It's hilarious, that big fucking hypocrite. In addition, one of the most ridiculous things he claimed is that Phyllis Gates was asking him to provide her with girls. Yes, sure, it's very believable, that just the secretary of Henry Willson would have such demands! He also claims that she was a lesbian, not a bisexual woman and that was not under question. How can he tell, this unbelievable man which woman is lesbian and which woman is bi? He has major issues and he is shallow and a liar.

by Anonymousreply 59804/20/2014

Why get in a big snit if it's fiction? Fiction can be fun to read. Do you think all fiction should be banned?

by Anonymousreply 59904/22/2014

I might have believed Bowers, at least some of the book, if he hadn't been so damned inaccurate. Someone on an LA newspaper went through the book page by page and even had difficulty reconciling some of the locations as being accurate.

As far as fiction, no, fiction shouldn't be banned, but this isn't fiction, these are untrue stories about real people, some of whom left families behind.

If someone is gay, great, write about it. If not, great, write about it. Don't just make up stuff and elaborate on their sexual practices and who they hit on if none of that ever took place. And if you're going to do that, write fiction, give the person another name. Otherwise what am I reading? A book I thought was a story of old Hollywood that relates conversations that never happened and hookups that never happened.

by Anonymousreply 60004/22/2014
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