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Gay Men Value Bitchiness Over Empathy

Why is that?

As an example, if a young gay man posted on here that he was contemplating suicide, more than half of the responses would be along the lines of "Couldn't you have done it BEFORE you wasted your $18?". I know. I've seen it.

Bigotry is met with intense disdain, but mainly as an opportunity for more vocal attitude. No action.

Gay culture is all about the "me". There is little unity. It's about protecting yourself, and alienation other gay men.

I'm 29 years old, attractive, partnered and gay and I just can't motivate myself to go to gay bars. It's not fun.

Why is it that a lot (not all) gay men have an inability to see beyond their own opinions and beliefs? Anything they have not experienced or don't like, they "hate" and anyone who doesn't hate it is "an idiot" or "should die in a fire".

It's frustrating being open and proud about your sexuality, but feeling so alienated from the culture itself.

by Anonymousreply 19411/17/2015

I'm gonna miss OLTL!

by Anonymousreply 201/07/2012

OP, you and me are the same age and I've noticed the exact same thing. It would be nice to have a gay friend or two, but I have none because so many of them are just such assholes that I don't even bother trying to make friends with them anymore. It's sad that instead of sticking together and being nice to eachother so many gay men just want to be vile instead.

by Anonymousreply 401/07/2012

This is why dudes seek straight, bi, or closeted guys. Bitchiness in dudes is not cool.

by Anonymousreply 501/07/2012

Do you think, OP, that every single straight person in America can walk into the hot, meat-market straight dance club in their town, throw their arms above their head and shout, "Finally! A place where I feel cherished and validated!"?

Giving you a sense of belonging is a lot of responsibility for a pack of buzzed queens who are trying to hook up.

by Anonymousreply 601/07/2012

That's because most American gay men are self-loathing assholes. .. It's pretty unique to this country. It's sort of sad too. That's why the word "gay" is really a misnomer in this society.

by Anonymousreply 701/07/2012

You have a point OP... A "friend" of mine, or at least I thought of him that way before had moved away to go to undergrad school. He was such a nice, person. Years later I moved to the city where he was in order to pursue my graduate degree and hung out with him and his friends a lot. This guy had changed into a snarky, mean-girl type of cunt that I did not recognize and who was just an awful person. I may blame it as his hanging around certain queens but he chose to change into this person whom I just cant help but feel bitter. I must admit they were beginning to influence me as I was becoming someone who was very skilled at throwing shade for no reason but I checked myself and distance myself from them, only to find out that HE now had much to say about me...

by Anonymousreply 1001/07/2012

The gay community only exists in your head. You have to create your own communities in life.

by Anonymousreply 1101/07/2012

R10 I've seen this shit so many times it's sad.

So, what kind of shit was your "friend" saying about you behind your back?

by Anonymousreply 1201/07/2012

A lot of gay dudes act like junior high girls, especially when together. Staying away from those cliques is advisable to retain one's testosterone and sanity.

by Anonymousreply 1301/07/2012

[quote]As an example, if a young gay man posted on here that he was contemplating suicide, more than half of the responses would be along the lines of "Couldn't you have done it BEFORE you wasted your $18?". I know. I've seen it.

How stupid do you have to be to look for empathy on Datalounge? This is not a suicide hot line, it's a gossip site.

[quote]I'm 29 years old, attractive, partnered and gay and I just can't motivate myself to go to gay bars. It's not fun.

If gay bars are your only connection to the gay community, no wonder you're so fucked up.

by Anonymousreply 1401/07/2012

Is this Gaybro Pity Party members only or can anyone join in?

by Anonymousreply 1501/07/2012

Well, r10, believe it or not, two out of those same friends of his wanted to get it on with me... they revealed how he would insult my fashion sense of all things... wow, I'm sooooo hurt by that (lol).

by Anonymousreply 1601/07/2012

Everyone needs someone to shit on. That is the one thing I have learned from being on this site. We all need someone lower than us on the pole.

by Anonymousreply 1701/07/2012

Not all gay men are nasty little flamboyant queens. But the majority are.

by Anonymousreply 1801/07/2012

[quote]How stupid do you have to be to look for empathy on Datalounge? This is not a suicide hot line, it's a gossip site.

And? So that means you're not obligated to be a decent human being. I get that. IT's kind of my point.

[quote]If gay bars are your only connection to the gay community, no wonder you're so fucked up.

They're not, and I'm not. You're being very literal and I'm not sure if you're intentionally lacking in cognitive reasoning or not. The bitterness of your words could serve a purpose I am unaware of, so I apologize if I'm misreading your intent.

by Anonymousreply 1901/07/2012

r16 here, I am r10 and meant to refer to r12 in my reply, sorry. I'm busy cooking lunch.

But yeah, two of his friends wanted to get with me and they revealed that he had a lot to say about me. I mean I'm sorry if my sneakers are "so 2009" according to him but I am a full-time graduate student, I don't have time to keep up with the fashion trends of 2012! You know what I mean petty stuff like that he is very vicious. You mean to tell me that a friend of yours you have known for years move to the city you currently live in and he basically NEVER hears from you at all? I mean you ar enot his keeper but you could at least show your face every now and then, especially since when HE makes an effort to see and communicate with you, YOU snub him by always being "busy".

He just became someone so different from the kind friend I once knew. I do blame the gay culture that he is so heavily involved.

by Anonymousreply 2001/07/2012

OP if that's you at R19 you have no reason to feel above it all.

by Anonymousreply 2101/07/2012

Your problem is in thinking that there is a gay culture. Your gay culture is what you make of it. Your friends, your family. If you are partnered and are happy why do you care if the bar culture is shallow and limited?

by Anonymousreply 2201/07/2012

[quote]And? So that means you're not obligated to be a decent human being. I get that. IT's kind of my point.

No, the point is there is a place where I listen to people who want to kill themselves. It's called the suicide hot line I worked for four years in high school.

I've never responded to someone trolling (or otherwise looking for attention) by threatening suicide, but I think it's pretty stupid to think that they're going to get the help they need on a site like this.

If they truly wanted help, they would pick a more appropriate venue.

[quote]They're not, and I'm not. You're being very literal and I'm not sure if you're intentionally lacking in cognitive reasoning or not. The bitterness of your words could serve a purpose I am unaware of, so I apologize if I'm misreading your intent.

Actually, you are. You have completely unrealistic expectations for an internet site such as this. That's fucked up. And you seem to be extrapolating the behavior on this site to the gay community in general. That's also fucked up.

Whatever you may believe, it's not all about fulfilling your needs. There are other people on this planet too and we have the right to converse as we see fit.

It's not our fault you don't get the point of DL.

by Anonymousreply 2301/07/2012

True, R22. There is a desire to socialize with other gay men and connect, so that's where my frustration lies. I do like to go out for drinks, and it would be nice to so around gay men. But we tend to go to more neutral settings to avoid "the drama".

And I know I sound judgmental, so insult away, but I really don't mean to judge or alienate anyone here, as it's the very thing I was venting about. My intent was just to vent the frustration and make an observation.

by Anonymousreply 2401/07/2012

The point of DL??!!!


Get real!

by Anonymousreply 2601/07/2012

Not at all true. I find that the gays, deep down, are tres empathetique!

by Anonymousreply 2701/07/2012

Actually, R26, you get it a lot more than the OP does.

by Anonymousreply 2801/07/2012

Not to make the OP's point for him -- oh, fuck it.

Here's my impression of R20:

"My less attractive friend sure turned into a real typical bitchy gay when he moved to the big city for undergrad school! I was so dismayed to see that side of him when I moved there for grad school and started causing drama with his friends. It's not my fault that I'm a full-time graduate student who all his friends want to sleep with. That he had the temerity to diss the bridge brand fashion sneakers that I bought at some off-pricer (and then made a point of showing off) really spoke to his character - a fact I learned when I was playing two of his gossipy friends off against each other. I realized I had to distance myself. And now would you believe, my so-called friend is acting like he doesn't have time for me. Typical queen. Good thing I have graduate school to keep me fulfilled. It's a real shame what gay culture does to other people. Grad school."

by Anonymousreply 2901/07/2012

Gay bars are a vestigial artifact of an era when men who were interested in other men had almost no place to let that be known, other than after-hours watering holes. Why would a partnered man ever consider going to one, even then? And now, I can't imagine what would motivate him.

Your friends should presumably be people who share your interests. Being gay does not constitute having something in common, any more than being straight does.

If you live a community which is still so narrow-minded that this is not the case, work to change it. In the course of doing that, you WILL meet people who share your stated values. if you'd prefer to complain, doesn't that mean that you are part of the problem you're trying to describe?

I remember Dan Savage's wonderful observation that he and his partner, parents of a ten year old boy (probably about thirteen now), have more in common with their straight friends who have kids than with their gay friends who have slings.

Find people who share your values. A significant percentage of them will be gay. (Or you'd better change your values.)

by Anonymousreply 3001/07/2012

R27 Care to explain that statement a little more?

by Anonymousreply 3101/07/2012

R23, you know, I only used DL in an example because its a reference everyone on here knows. My post isn't at all specific to here and I am fully aware that Bitching and Pointlessness is the foundation of this site.

by Anonymousreply 3201/07/2012

OP, just to confirm - are you attractive? Are you a grad student?

by Anonymousreply 3301/07/2012

Let's face it, OP, R1 had you skewered from the off.

by Anonymousreply 3401/07/2012

R34, I'm not so sure that R1 was on the money. How do we know that OP was ever hot or cute? Well on his way to bitterness, though, which might be the underlying cause of the bitchery among those he observes.

by Anonymousreply 3601/07/2012

"Staying away from those cliques is advisable to retain one's testosterone and sanity."

Uh, hello, testosterone is why men are much more violent than women.

Maybe you should visit your local jail to observe how horrible "real men" can be.

by Anonymousreply 3701/07/2012

Because it's so much easier to be bitchy and laugh. It's so easy to hate. It takes strength to be gentle and kind.

by Anonymousreply 3801/07/2012

I was never a twink. I've always been hot. I am not a grad student. I am a marketing analyst for an insurance company.

Gay men don't lack empathy. They just suppress it in favor of being witty and/or what they think is cute.

Which is fine, but I think always having that switch "ON" has caused a lot of harmful alienation.

by Anonymousreply 3901/07/2012

I agree with OP. The worst is when you have to work with a bitchy queen.

by Anonymousreply 4001/07/2012

[quote]I was never a twink. I've always been hot.

OP, after I read that arrogant remark, I'm starting to wonder if your attitude is any different from other bitchy gay men.

by Anonymousreply 4101/07/2012


by Anonymousreply 4201/07/2012

My ex- was always a bitch, but when he became friendly with the mean girl-type who is now his partner, he became incredibly nasty and completely without empathy. And the friends we split followed those lines--the mean girls went with him, the people with feelings stayed with me.

That said, I'm a bitch, too, but there's a difference between mocking a Project Runway contestant's outfit in your living room and standing in a bar with five mean girls with gaybitchface trashing everyone within earshot. Mary!

by Anonymousreply 4301/07/2012

OP is talking about east coast gays.

by Anonymousreply 4401/07/2012

Oh, EAST coast gays. That's very different. Generalizations about them are all valid.

by Anonymousreply 4501/07/2012

[quote]Gay culture is all about the "me".

followed immediately by

[quote]I'm 29 years old, attractive, partnered and gay and I just can't motivate myself to go to gay bars. It's not fun.

The fact that most people are too stupid to know how dumb they really are is the fabric holding our society together.

by Anonymousreply 4601/07/2012

Whatever r29... I'm sure there are two sides to a story and my "friend" has his side to it in which he is not in the wrong and how I am the one who has changed but I am being as objective as possible in recounting the situation. There is A LOT more I could say to make my point but I will not assassinate his character just to prove something here. My whole objective was to demonstrate my reason for agreeing with the OP about an ugly side of the gay community that manifests itself in many ways.

I never claimed to be hot or to throw it in anyone's face that I'm a grad student. My point is that my "friend" was once a really nice guy and he has become a passive aggressive cunt, especially against me (we've been through a lot together and I stood up for him when nobody would do so).

And HIS friends flirted with me, maybe I smiled back and they began chatting me up. Yes I fucked one but I realized it being inappropriate and I stopped the affair and did not let the other one get any further with me. And it really has nothing to do with him but out of respect for him I ended it.

He has no right to treat me the way that he has.

by Anonymousreply 4701/07/2012

Marry me, R46.

by Anonymousreply 4801/07/2012

R46, since you seem to place value in self-awareness and intelligence, I think you should be aware that you are incorrect.

Providing background and experience in a personal observation is not selfishness. It's clear I'm referring to decisions made on an interpersonal level when I say it's all about "me", so please explain your intentional denseness.

by Anonymousreply 4901/07/2012

There are selfish, superficial, mean-spirited bully-type assholes in every demographic, most definitely including the straight male one.

by Anonymousreply 5001/07/2012

[quote]so please explain your intentional denseness

OP, you explain yours first, ok toots?

by Anonymousreply 5101/07/2012

Referencing yourself in a personal observation is not the same thing as ignoring others' feelings and situations in favor of one's own superficial wants and desires.

The fact that I had to explain that is silly. Why not discuss your own observations and experiences? That would be more effective than dismissing a viewpoint you disagree with willful ignorance.

by Anonymousreply 5201/07/2012

OP, you are a dime a dozen. There are selfish, blind morons like you on every bulletin board, complaining that the site, and by extension the "community", isn't fulfilling your needs.

Get over it. The world revolves around the sun, not around you.

by Anonymousreply 5301/07/2012


by Anonymousreply 5401/07/2012

[quote]I'm 29 years old, attractive, partnered and gay and I just can't motivate myself to go to gay bars. It's not fun.

Try being 47 years old, unattractive, unpartnered, and gay.

Talk about not fun.

by Anonymousreply 5501/07/2012

[quote]I was never a twink. I've always been hot.

R39, thank you for providing this important background. Your keen insight demonstrates that you understand that no one wants to talk about empathy with a fug.

by Anonymousreply 5601/07/2012

"if a young gay man posted on here that he was contemplating suicide, more than half of the responses would be along the lines of "Couldn't you have done it BEFORE you wasted your $18?". I know. I've seen it"

No you haven't - you horrible, hideous 'phobe troll...

by Anonymousreply 5701/07/2012

gay men are cunts to eachother!

by Anonymousreply 5901/07/2012

This thread is a classic case of attacking others for your own traits. Republicans are famous for it. OP is guilty of it as well.

by Anonymousreply 6001/07/2012

OP, I think the most important question in all of this is:

Who do you think will win Best Actress - Meryl, Michelle, or Viola?

by Anonymousreply 6101/07/2012

Be quiet OP. Gays are perfect. There are NO problems in our communities that we need to acknowledge and work on improving. NONE. Now run along now and never speak of this again.

by Anonymousreply 6201/07/2012

Regarding this board. For the most part it's anonymous and the posters are strangers to each other. Depending on the kindness of strangers is futile when this board is a welcoming place to release all that anger, bitterness and frustration that builds up in posters for some time (that Angelina Jolie, what a bitch! traveling around the world picking orphans like souvenir snowglobes! Bitch, bitch, bitch!).

Furthermore not only gays but pretty much everybody has built walls around them after they got deeply hurt by someone and no longer want to experience the same level of hurt ever again. So they have defense mechanism to not let people get too close.

It feels a lot better to reject than being rejected.

Making fun of yourself is a pre-emptive strike making it clear to people that their mockery won't do the harm they hoped it would cause.

When you open yourself up to someone you are vulnerable. People don't like to be vulnerable, because they are sure that they sure get hurt (taken advantage of, made fun of, treated like a doormat, etc.). People get scared and paranoid when they feel vulnerable (when comes the blow, what will he or she do while I'm vulnerable, etc.).

The only trust a lot of us have is that when we let someone in we're gonna get hurt. It becomes a physical and psychological law for us that sooner or later we will end up with a broken heart, so why bother trying?

Keeping people at arms lenght means you hold all the power and they beg you for every tiny bit you let them come closer and keep on trying when you push them further away (and if they give up it means that it wasn't meant to happen anyway).

by Anonymousreply 6301/07/2012

[quote]Who do you think will win Best Actress - Meryl, Michelle, or Viola?

I haven't seen it yet, but I think Meryl will win. I thought Viola was awesome in The Help, though I didn't really like the movie.

I'd be okay with any of them winning, and feel each one has an undeserved loss in their past (Viola - Doubt; Michelle - Blue Valentine; Meryl - She-Devil...not even nominated! Shame!).

by Anonymousreply 6401/07/2012

[quote]Bitching and Pointlessness is the foundation of this site. (OP)

We know that, and it's 99% of why we read in here. It's fun. At the same time, when someone posts about a troubled life or situation, it is quite heartwarming to see how many sincere thoughts are offered by people trying to help.

by Anonymousreply 6501/07/2012

R63 says it all correctly. I believe this person is empathetic, and NOT the OP.

by Anonymousreply 6601/07/2012

I think a big problem with gay men here that we always have to be right and have the last word. Yeah, it makes it fun sometimes, but when it's not fun it's REALLY ugly.

by Anonymousreply 6701/07/2012

OP and R67=right wing homophobe trolls. Obviously so. And you dumbasses fell for it. I've seen those suicide threads and the majority DO NOT come in saying JUMP JUMP JUMP even though that is traditional in heterosexist society, or indeed, in crowds of any kind.

As for bitchiness, compare DL to Free Republic and other republican sites and we all seem like altruistic saints. We are not particularly bitchy or negative.

There are some exceptions, the most important being people who think it's okay to trash or negotiate gay rights because we've all heard the same fake non-arguments over and over for decade after decade after decade and we are tried of hearing them. All have been debunked.

by Anonymousreply 6801/07/2012

ITA, r65.

It can be a rabid pack of harpies around most of the time but when someone posts about their health/family/awful situations, they usually do get sympathy.

Maybe that's because most of us have been through that sort of BS and know what it is like.

by Anonymousreply 6901/07/2012

Anyone who bases their view of Gay Men on what they read on Datalounge is an idiot.

by Anonymousreply 7001/07/2012

Gay men of the 21st century DEPISE The Boys in the Band because the characters are self-loathing fags, but that is exactly what they are themselves - Mart Crowley characters.

by Anonymousreply 7101/07/2012

I don't think all gay men are bitchy. However, I do think that a greater proportion of gay men are emotionally damaged and nasty than straight men.

I've always found that I get along with straight guys much more than gay guys. I've found far more emotional support from my straight friends than the gay guys I've known.

I think much of this is cultural, though. I understand the poster who said it's mostly an American thing. In my experience, though, it's not just Americans, but gay guys from anywhere who grow up in a repressive society where they internalize self-hatred. So I also see this kind of pathology a lot among Latin Americans, but not so much in Canada, for example, where people are much more accepting of difference.

by Anonymousreply 7201/07/2012

I found that out when I was 21. I'm 47 now. There are plenty of things to do instead of the bars. Travel, go the the ocean, etc. Bars are for losers OP.

by Anonymousreply 7301/07/2012

I agree with you OP. Your observations are right on!

by Anonymousreply 7401/08/2012

For whatever reasons, non-gay men tend to be more laid back and chill than openly gay men. There are many exceptions, but the large majority of my straight male friends are very chill, low maintenance, nondramatic, whereas about half the gay dudes I know are rather melodramatic and negative.

by Anonymousreply 7501/08/2012

It's not true R75.

by Anonymousreply 7601/08/2012

I graduated in 2007. There was a clique of Mean Girl gays that ran the school, even the jocks respected them. These guys were so unfriendly and catty to anyone who wasn't "popular", but everyone thoughtthejr behavior was so cute and charming. Back then, I wanted so badly for them to like me but they looked right throught. I was the nerdy, unfabulous gay that liked video games and Lord of the Rings. At senior picnic I got a chance to sit with them because one of my hags was a mutual friend of theirs. Even though they didn't speak to me, it felt nice to be among other gay teens. That's all I ever wanted.

by Anonymousreply 7701/08/2012

r 77 Never happened! Didn't exist!

by Anonymousreply 7801/08/2012

What kind of idiotic frump extrapolates from the Datalounge website's culture to condemn all gays in general?

OP, at least one of the bitchier/wittier "gays" on this site is my vaginaed friend posting incognito as what one would assume is a gay man. She's a A&E promo copywriter here in NY who visits this site to stay sane.

by Anonymousreply 7901/08/2012

Well now, times have sure changed. Trying to picture that scenario in my high school. I hope to God you got over that attitude in these past 4 years, 77.

Either that, or you really, really read things real wrong.

by Anonymousreply 8001/08/2012

R72 has a really good point, that this internal conflict builds in groups that meet heavy-duty repression.

If you are a member of a part of society that is oppressed, racial and religious minorities, women, and GLBT, are pretty much universal examples, everything that is hard to find and valuable such as jobs, promotions, and partners, are going to be harder to get than for those people who are part of the dominate culture.

Anyone remember the Richard Pryor skit on SNL when he remade "Black Like Me" as "White Like Me?" He turned himself white and suddenly he applied for credit and got it, he applied for a job and got it, etc.

That's the process. Everything is harder when you are in the oppressed minority. Everything is more stressful. That warps the way you look at the world.

Then also you gather with others who share your identity for support and comfort, natural enough, but that means your hang out with the people who share the same shortages you do, with whom you compete for the same tiny slice of pie, so they are at hand when you feel like spitting venom.

That wouldn't happen nearly as much if no one had problems getting a job, getting an apartment, getting married, if we had a society in which everyone understood that for every person, gay, straight, black, white, man or woman, there was a more or less equal chance for economic security, personal fulfillment, and simple respect no matter who you are.

by Anonymousreply 8101/08/2012

Good, fuck off, I hate meeting "partnered" guys at the meat market. And while you're at it stay off of hookup sites and Scruff.

by Anonymousreply 8201/08/2012

[quote]Anyone remember the Richard Pryor skit on SNL

It was Eddie Murphy.

by Anonymousreply 8301/08/2012

The internet is proof that anonymity brings out the worst in people.

by Anonymousreply 8401/08/2012

When a child sees, from his earliest awareness, that to his core, he is repulsive and disgusting and hateful to the world he lives in, it shouldn't be a surprise that he grows up to be hate-filled and to express his digust with the world he encounters.

by Anonymousreply 8501/08/2012

[quote]It's frustrating being open and proud about your sexuality, but feeling so alienated from the culture itself.

The culture...what culture? These words...culture, community....they don't make sense.

If you're in a relationship why go to a gay bar?

[quote] proud about your sexuality,

Proud? Why should anyone be 'proud' to be gay. You really mean unashamed. But, proud? That's where you find pride in yourself?

It seems like you invest too much of yourself in your attraction to the same sex. You then expect your sexual preferences to give you more than you're getting.

[quote]I'm 29 years old, attractive, partnered and gay and I just can't motivate myself to go to gay bars. It's not fun.

What were you hoping to find at the gay bar? If you're all those things you profess to be, why would you want to hang out at the gay bar?

Being gay isn't a ticket to paradise. You just sound like someone who finds it hard to make friends, gay or straight.

Yes, lot of of gay men are bitchy and mean, but some are terrific. Same in the hetero world. Most straight men are boring and just want to talk about sport and girls with big tits. The ones that don't, don't expect to find stimulating conversation at some bar or pub.

You're too wrapped up in your 'gay' identity and not your identity as a human being. No wonder you're disappointed and flailing about.

by Anonymousreply 8601/08/2012

[quote]If you're in a relationship why go to a gay bar?

To have drink and socialize. But you're right, gay bars are not really acceptable venues for this, so I usually end up at straight bars, where both single people and coupled people are welcome.

by Anonymousreply 8801/08/2012

Gay men can be sensitive, perceptive, loyal, and deeply empathetic.

AT THE SAME TIME, there is a tendency within many gay men to be bitchy, judgmental, trivial and dismissive.

Many conversations between gay men are throwdowns, with no actual listening going on.

Gay men will benefit if they give in to their better instincts and drop the defensiveness.

Deal with it.

by Anonymousreply 8901/08/2012

It's so late in the thread, but I must wonder about the OP bitching about bitching and showing no "empathy" (not understanding, of course, that what is meant is "sympathy") while deploring its lack.


by Anonymousreply 9001/08/2012

OP and others need to look in the mirror.

What do you see? That's right. A gay man. Therefore your feelings and perceptions are ALSO part of the broad range of feelings, perceptions, modes of dealing with the world just like the retarded, trite, easy, cliched stereotype you're clinging to and trying to apply to other people (never yourself, natch).

by Anonymousreply 9101/08/2012

R90, no. You need to learn the difference. It's empathy.

by Anonymousreply 9201/08/2012

I have known far more gay men who are nicer, funnier, more accepting, and awesome, than I have ever known in straight guys.

by Anonymousreply 9301/08/2012

I was on this pathetic gay website called realjock once, and I could never return there. It was easily the most anti-gay website i have ever been. They would have discussions about how awful gay men are and how wonderful straight men are. It was easily the most self-loathing, homophobic web site I have ever seen. Far more greater than this website.

A lot of those guys' pics seem pretty fake too. They all poses for the camera. Most are single. Not surprising.

by Anonymousreply 9401/08/2012

Empathy is considered a weakness and some gay men hate nothing more than to proove their enemies right by acting weak.

Members of the gay community have their own alpha male (or Queen Bee) hierarchy fights.

Some gay guys have self esteem issuses because of things authority figures (parents, close friends, etc.) said to them and they cope or compensate by becoming overly materialistic, status obsessed, and bitchy.

by Anonymousreply 9501/08/2012

Like others have said, those groups that feel they have a very thin slice of pie tend to be overly competitive (and overly judgmental) with each other. By the same token, many in the oppressed group tend to overidealize and glorify the dominant group, anxiously ingratiating themselves to them and attempting to win their approval and validation.

But the dominant group isn't inherently better than anyone else, it's just that by virtue of being at the top of the food chain, they don't have to deal with the same issues that everyone else does. If you were to put straight men in a situation where they feel like they have very limited opportunities at the hands of a more dominant group, they would quickly turn on each other like rats in a cage.

by Anonymousreply 9601/08/2012

90% of gay men are shallow

by Anonymousreply 9701/08/2012

That's not true R97.

by Anonymousreply 9801/08/2012

If it were true, there would be no "bear" culture.

by Anonymousreply 9901/08/2012

What is the difference between masculine men who are mean and snarky and effeminate men who are mean and snarky?

by Anonymousreply 10001/13/2012

Nothing, r100. Except some of the men are masculine.

by Anonymousreply 10101/23/2012

Butch men are just as snarky. They just use less esses in their speaking voices.

by Anonymousreply 10201/23/2012

Gay men are really groups of different ethnic and religious culture who only have one thing in common - being gay!

They are just as snobbish about money and success (maybe more so) than straight men. I think it's a defense mechanism and a way to make sure no one can hurt them anymore. There's an awful lot of pain and anger out there in the gay world, including those in their 20's and above.

by Anonymousreply 10301/23/2012

OP, be glad that you can recognize something is wrong. I can relate to your original point of view. I believe it wittles down to selfishness combined with the fact that many guys (gay&straight) never mature to manhood. Even though it costs nothing to treat others well they are conditioned to trample whomever threatens their sense of masculinity. They are scared that they will be seen as expendable, like male bees in a colony. In turn the life they live IS pointless and futile because they reflect nothing. We are boxed in by technology and science to value everything monetarily and numerically and not the full span of the human experience. Out of power patriarchy has been in control for 2000 years and offers an increasingly narrow definition for what it mean to be male. You have the free choice to adopt or reject this model based on your experiences with it. For me, being male means that I must protect those who are weaker and learn from the wisdom of the experiences that others can share.

by Anonymousreply 10401/24/2012

Water finds it's own level. If you're an asshole, you will eventually fill your life with other assholes. No sex pun intended. Bitching about how bitchy everyone else is? That just makes you another bitch.

Why do you think the gay community is about bars and bitchiness? You think that's what got us through the worst of the AIDS epidemic? Selfish cuntiness? Not a fucking chance. Meanwhile, there's a reason "callow" and "youth" go together. Who is it that keeps up with the "eldergay" comments. It's the young and selfish.

One of the joys of being mature, is that you've moved on from being a self-centered piece of shit.

by Anonymousreply 10501/24/2012

[quote]Meanwhile, there's a reason "callow" and "youth" go together. Who is it that keeps up with the "eldergay" comments. It's the young and selfish.

Sorry gramps but that's kind of bitchy in itself. You had me and then you ruined it.

by Anonymousreply 10601/24/2012

[quote]Gay Men Value Bitchiness Over Empathy

To be fair OP, straight men do this too. A lot.

by Anonymousreply 10701/24/2012

The easiest way for someone who's experienced a lifetime of feeling left out is by joining a pack of similar people and excluding others, even if just temporarily. So falling into a mean girl clique is the default social mode for the kind of gay man who wants to hang out at clubs, bars and parties. Then they reinforce each other's behavior.

by Anonymousreply 10801/24/2012

[quote]I may blame it as his hanging around certain queens but he chose to change into this person whom I just cant help but feel bitter.

Oh dear.

by Anonymousreply 10901/24/2012

r106, you validated my point with the condescending "gramps."

You failed at taking the high road.

by Anonymousreply 11001/24/2012

R71 - "The Boys in the Band" was a piece of over-dramatic histrionics AT THE TIME.

If you think it has anything to do with 21st- century gay life, then YOU are the problem...

by Anonymousreply 11101/24/2012

Puhleeease! DL is like a re-script from Boys in the Band!

by Anonymousreply 11201/24/2012

FAIL, gramps at r110. I'm likely older than you. I validated nothing except the pathetic defense mechanism of someone who knows they were wrong.

by Anonymousreply 11301/25/2012

OP sounds fat.

by Anonymousreply 11401/25/2012

False dilemma. It's easy to be bitchy and empathetic at the same time.

by Anonymousreply 11501/25/2012

In my experience I have met several gay men. Some have been very nice and some have been very bitchy. I would have to say the bitchy overpopulates the nice. It seems to me that the majority of gay men have a need to prove they are better than everyone else. I assume that this stems from a self esteem issue along with testosterone enhanced competitiveness and the stigma of gay culture. I have not observed straight men making a daily issue of being straight and few lesbians making the same issue of thier sexuality. However, it seems to me that gay men have this thing with thinking they are extra special because they are gay. Your sexuality does not make you special. Being yourself makes you special!! If you belittle others for amusement or self gratification maybe you should seek some professional help because all that you are going to do is drive people away. If you are not a teenager, and if you are going to bars in the U.S. you definitely should not be, grow up and act like an adult. Cliques are a childish thing and should be left with the rest of your kiddy toys when you become an adult. It also does not help an already depressed person who is just trying to find thier place in society when thier own so called peers poke fun at them. I have enjoyed readin this thread and just wanted to leave my own rant:) I wish you all the best!!!

by Anonymousreply 11601/29/2012

[quote]I'm 29 years old, attractive, partnered and gay and I just can't motivate myself to go to gay bars. It's not fun.

If you're partnered, why do you need to go to gay bars at all?

by Anonymousreply 11701/29/2012

R104 sounds like Camille Paglia in drag. Uh, NO. You wouldn't find the same New York bitchy amongst the gays of Billings, Montana, would you? Why do you attribute DL's NY bitchiness to gaiety?

by Anonymousreply 11801/29/2012

How [italic][bold]DARE[/bold][/italic] the gay men here act so bitchy on this, a gay gossip board????

Is not the very purpose of this entire forum to provide empathy for suicidal young men? Is this not why we pay to come here?

by Anonymousreply 11901/29/2012

hi OP, I'm 28 and understand what you're saying. But I believe that the opinions expressed on places like Datalounge, actually don't reflect the majority of gay men.

In the same way that youtube video comments don't reflect the average intelligence.

I also think that the gay "voice" reflected in the media and at cub culture only belongs to a certain small but loud portion of the gay population.

by Anonymousreply 12001/29/2012

fags are cruel to other fags

by Anonymousreply 12101/29/2012

I know more straight guys who are snarky then gay men. I worked with a few recently. Always talking about people in negative ways. Honestly, negative conversations about others was all they talked about. Rude, vulgar, and obnoxious.

by Anonymousreply 12201/29/2012

R121 hit the nail on the head. Straight men can be bitchy when they want to be, and so can gay men. But gay men are a hell of a lot crueler to other gay men than they are anyone else.

by Anonymousreply 12301/30/2012

Unlike gay bashings from straight guys, right, R123?

by Anonymousreply 12401/30/2012

[quote]I know more straight guys who are snarky then gay men.

Oh, dear.

by Anonymousreply 12501/30/2012

I'm on my iPhone, douchebag, R125. I'll gay bash your oh dear ass.

by Anonymousreply 12601/30/2012

Actually, this raises a bigger question. Why do so many people; men, women, gay and straight...spend so much time criticizing others? I know it comes from insecurity and I am guilty of it, but it baffles me how many people sit around bad-mouthing others for hours....why is this normal?

by Anonymousreply 12701/30/2012

Jealousy, insecurity, etc.

by Anonymousreply 12801/30/2012

OP,that's because we are all anonymous. That's why. And also no one really takes another anonymous's word. Fact: had we all authenticated, and couldn't get away with our words, 100% of the responses would have went somewhere along the lines: DON'T John, we all love you, the world loves you. You are idiot...and other sentimental little nothings.

by Anonymousreply 12901/30/2012

People like to boost their own egos and give themselves a sense of validity. Putting others down helps to accomplish this. I don't like to talk about others behind their back and try to stay away from those who do, but being such a common activity, that's a lot easier said than done.

by Anonymousreply 13001/30/2012

I wouldn't say anything behind your back R130, that I wouldn't also say to your face.

by Anonymousreply 13101/30/2012

This thread is KNEE DEEP in...[bold] MARY! [/bold]

by Anonymousreply 13201/30/2012

Exhibit A of bitchiness over empathy:

by Anonymousreply 13301/30/2012

Don't mean and bitchy people have a conscience or morals? I would feel bad if I put people down.

by Anonymousreply 13401/31/2012

Well as I read I wounder how I will turn out. I am gay and 16 and reading all this from those who are older than me makes me think of how I will turn out to be. I do think it is very hypocritical for a anyone to start something about someone but never want anything ever done to them. I told a friend and my sister that if I ever became "hypocritical" that they should slap the shit out of me so that I could realize it. Oh, I hope that as a younger generation of LGBT that we are nicer. Though I do understand that there will always be people who are rude, but what I don't understand is why be so rude when living life as a happy person is so much more HAPPIER. ^_^ This also applies to those of all other orientation.

by Anonymousreply 13510/06/2012

The snarkiness, bigotry etc on DL has nothing to do with it being a gay board. Rather the anonymity. Gay men and women are essentially no worse or better than heterosexual counterparts- in any setting. I'm afraid the OP himself is homophobic. I wonder what makes him think straight bars are any different from gay bars?

by Anonymousreply 13610/06/2012

[quote]Why is it that a lot (not all) gay men have an inability to see beyond their own opinions and beliefs?

Gay men acting like 14-year-old mean girls. Example #586

by Anonymousreply 13710/06/2012

try to cry out in the heat of the moment possessed by a fury that burns from inside

by Anonymousreply 13810/06/2012

Charlie's first couple of sentences are accurate. However, I think that there is often a difference in how gay men and straight men express that side of themselves. However, if you want to see some really nasty shit, have a look at youtube comments- that is not a gay site.

On DL, it's an anonymous cavalcade where bitchiness is a sport. I like that sport, but I do worry about people who may post on here and not get it.

by Anonymousreply 13910/06/2012

If you abuse an animal enough, it'll eventually turn vicious and fight back. People are animals, so it's no surprise (to me at least) that many oppressed/repressed/abused gays eventually develop biting personalities.

[quote]Gay culture is all about the "me".

My sister asked me about this once. She said, "Why are all gay people so self-centered?" Well...lets see. We grow up feeling totally alone, alienated, and like the world is against us (at least I did...pre-internet, pre-Will and Grace days). We have to become our own strength if we're going to survive. On top of that we're not allowed to marry and rarely have children, so who the hell else would we be centered around?? Many of us end up self-centered by default.

[quote]Why is it that a lot of gay men have an inability to see beyond their own opinions and beliefs? Anything they have not experienced or don't like, they "hate" and anyone who doesn't hate it is "an idiot" or "should die in a fire".

I think what you're describing here is black-or-white thinking, and I'm guilty of it. For myself, I believe I developed this way of thinking as a result of growing up in a world where I had to look at everyone and quickly decide if they are with me, or if they are against me. They're either my friend and ally, or they're my enemy. It's sad to have to go through life like that, but it's reality for many gays (especially ones that don't live in big cities). Hopefully as society becomes more accepting of us, these symptoms of oppression will fade.

by Anonymousreply 14010/06/2012

R135, I'm sure you'll turn out just fine. It speaks volumes that at your age you're thinking of how you treat others (while making an effort to not be a hypocrite). We could al learn something from you...if only most of the people here weren't so jaded.

by Anonymousreply 14110/06/2012

Being GLBT, you are not a minority that has a family or a homeland. Your family are likely to reject you, and there is no geographic origin. Yes, you can 'hide' your difference, and in a way that gives you the opportunity to be accepted as 'normal' ad this is something that most other minorities do not have the option of, but it isn't exactly a get out clause, and usually has repercussions. I have read extensive research on black kids growing up in a white family and how damaging that can be. For most GLBT kids, it's the equivalent.

by Anonymousreply 14210/06/2012

You have to separate calling people out for entitled, delusional, self important comments and actions from true bitchy comments.

A lot of the comments being categorized as bitchy are actually targeting the people who themselves have embedded hypocritical, bigoted positions. In today's society where everyone gets a blue ribbon for participating rather than in the quality of that participation, we have allowed people to believe that all opinions are valid. In fact, they are not.

Taking someone down a peg is not bitchy. It's the law of the (DL) jungle. Kill or be killed.

by Anonymousreply 14310/06/2012

OP says..."Why is it that a lot (not all) gay men have an inability to see beyond their own opinions and beliefs? Anything they have not experienced or don't like, they "hate" and anyone who doesn't hate it is "an idiot" or "should die in a fire".

You're describing personality disordered people. Mostly borderline PD you are painting paired with a lack of higher education and messy-queeny to boot. NOBODY is seeking them out.

by Anonymousreply 14410/06/2012

Don't mind negativity, R143, But sometimes it's obviously very defensive.

by Anonymousreply 14510/06/2012

r140 Makes the best case. As a gay person growing up you do not have positive role models in your own home (usually) and never know who you can trust not to reject you because of your sexuality. As Ellen put it once, Growing up in a minority household, at least you have the feeling that 'we're all in this together'. As gay people we don't get that. The bitchiness is worn/used as a protective shell by a lot of gay men.

by Anonymousreply 14610/06/2012

I think I know what you're saying; I think of myself as being around the "periphery" of the gay world. Actually I don't even care for the word "gay" and prefer homosexual. When more bars had backrooms/orgy rooms before AIDS, gay bars were, for a short while, wild, fun, more inclusive places. They have become dull, insipid, uninteresting places as are straight bars, especially the sports oriented ones. Gay men generally, in lively yet pointless conversation, seem to try and outshout each other although this may be a generally male characteristic, straight, gay or in between. To me nowadays there are few less friendly "social professionals" than gay bar bartenders unless it is the dealers at the various card or crap tables in any Las Vegas casino. One would think that for a generally despised group as gay men still are (although it is alot less, seemingly than say in the 1950s and 60s), there would be more comraderie but generally there isn't partly because it is seen as a sexual come on and unless you are cute you might find a frosty response. The gay world is more a loose anarchic confederation than a united federation.

by Anonymousreply 14710/06/2012

Because people on the DL are bitchy, then all gay men are bitchy? What do the youtube and yahoo commenters say about everybody else then?

They are so cruel, they make us look like sweet angels. Now shut the fuck up.

by Anonymousreply 14810/06/2012

R77, I think that's the saddest thing I've ever heard. :(

I used to be one of those MeanGirlGayGuyCUNTS when I was in HS (10 years ago).. I grew out of it. As I've grown, I've started to feel badly about how I alienated some of the other less-popular gay kids in school.

by Anonymousreply 15112/23/2012

Liar R149

by Anonymousreply 15212/26/2012

So, OP, after a year and ANOTHER $18, have ya killed yersef yet?

by Anonymousreply 15312/26/2012

I didn't re-up this year.

by Anonymousreply 15412/26/2012

This is true.

by Anonymousreply 15502/23/2013

There was a thread posted a few weeks ago- a young guy contemplating suicide. Most of the replies were either apathetic or, per usual, extremely bitch and encouraging him to go through with it. Apparently his thread was getting in the way of DLers posting in yet another Judy Garland thread.

by Anonymousreply 15603/19/2013

Another thread bashing the gay man. Yet we survive. We endure. No matter how cunts try and take us down we rise above it.

by Anonymousreply 15703/19/2013

no one has done ANYTHING to ANYONE on this thread

by Anonymousreply 15803/19/2013

OP, only a certain type of stereotyptical gay man.

by Anonymousreply 15912/06/2013

I dont know anyone who resembles what OP described. If these are the sort of people OP is surrounding himself with then it says more about him than it does about others.

by Anonymousreply 16012/06/2013

I know this thread is more than a year old, but

[quote]I'm 29 years old, attractive, partnered and gay and I just can't motivate myself to go to gay bars. It's not fun.

[quote]OP, you and me are the same age and I've noticed the exact same thing.

what does either of these statements have to do with the topic?

by Anonymousreply 16112/06/2013

This isn't a suicide hotline. It's a gossip messageboard. I honestly don't care if you want to commit suicide. Don't intrude on my recreational internet time. If you want someone to stop you from killing yourself, then phone a friend, a relative, the police or a suicide hotline. Don't go burdening strangers hanging out on a fun messageboard. If you really wanted to kill yourself, you'd do it and wouldn't bothering people with your drama.

by Anonymousreply 16212/06/2013

R161, the poster needs is separating himself from the rest by stating his age, because age is supposedly very important in the gay community, and his attractiveness, another supposedly extremely important attribute within the gay community. He stated he was partnered because supposedly gay men are promiscuous.

His point is "how can somebody so young and hot be partnered and even still not go to gay bars?".

The above point is just his narcissism. He has no point there, but, he wanted you to know how hot, young, and unavailable is to you. The second point is he's relating to the homophobia of the OP.

This is, essentially, another gay hating thread.

Don't forget, R161, 1/4 gay men are closeted on Datalounge.

by Anonymousreply 16312/06/2013

Oh no! The world is not validating my every whim!

by Anonymousreply 16412/06/2013

[quote] Don't intrude on my recreational internet time.

Shouldn't you be directing your anger at the person who held a gun to your head and made you read posts you were not interested in reading?

by Anonymousreply 16512/06/2013

Amen, R165.

by Anonymousreply 16612/06/2013

Miserable people hate to see others happy , accepted, and living meaningful lives. Explains why do many effeminate men are bitchy.

by Anonymousreply 16712/06/2013

So many of the people responding in this thread so defensive and pouncing on the OP like a swarm of hyenas on a dead wildebeest carcass. I honestly wouldn't doubt for a second that most of the people lecturing the OP for complaining about the obnoxious belligerent catty attitudes of so many gay men are EXACTLY the very people that OP is talking about. Defensive indeed. Too bad there is no defense for being an obnoxious belligerent catty little bitch--be you gay or straight, male or female--not even on a petty little gossip site like this.

(And of course before anyone points out my 'hypocrisy' for even being on a petty little gossip site, I only stumbled upon it through an Google image search. The title of the thread intrigued me as I have most of the same feelings as the OP does on this subject)

by Anonymousreply 16804/10/2014

I'll get flamed for this, but this board is really my only contact with gay men for that reason. I grew tired of the bitchiness and the cattiness and the mad rush to act like a diva. True, not all gay men act like that, but where I live -- Nashville -- most of those I encounter do. A had an epiphany a few years ago: I was starting to see a wonderful guy, who was smart (mensa member), well-traveled, etc. He had me over to dinner with some other intelligent, well-rounded gay men. I was looking forward to having a nice evening with good conversation, but all they talked about was mary this, mary that, who has a big dick, who slept with whom. They were capable of a far better conversation, but, in a group, they all just acted like silly queens. I know I shouldn't damn a whole group of people, but I got tired of the crowd mentality of gay men. So, for the time being, I don't have any gay friends.

by Anonymousreply 16904/10/2014

[R169] I certainly don't blame you one bit. I'm sorry it didn't work out with that guy. It sucks when you think you've found a wonderful guy and then he turns around and succumbs to things like peer pressure. I bet he only behaved that way because the rest of those guys were doing it. That's no excuse, but hopefully you'll find someone better. :)

by Anonymousreply 17004/10/2014

Welcome to my world, OP

by Anonymousreply 17104/11/2014

Gay people come into the gay community with bad opinions of gay people because they are raised and surrounded by heterosexuals who tell them bad stuff. Gay people don't realize how profound the shaping of their formative years (0-16 years old) have had on their lives. That means they don't abandon those bad opinions to look at gay people with clean slates.

Gay people are far more loyal to heterosexuals then they are to other gay people. Gay people are more willing to giving every single heterosexual a chance that he or she would not to gay people. You are not going to get along with every gay person. You don't need an army of friends.

by Anonymousreply 17204/11/2014

The thing is you have been fed a lie. There is no such thing as the 'gay community'. It's pointless trying to pretend you're part of some great club, connecting you to many other, occasionally vapid, people.

by Anonymousreply 17304/11/2014

R13, that is exactly the way I describe lesbians.

by Anonymousreply 17404/11/2014

R173 Would you like gay population better? Is there a heterosexual community? If so then why is there one? Is it because they can breed and are directly related?

by Anonymousreply 17504/11/2014

Look at OP pretending to not be a sociopath. Whoopie for you, OP. There's always an exception to the rule, I guess.

Enjoy your life of depth and empathy!

by Anonymousreply 17604/11/2014

[quote]Miserable people hate to see others happy

So true

by Anonymousreply 17704/11/2014

I agree R173 I have gay friends, but I wouldn't consider them or me to be part of a community. We got similar interests and hobbies and we happend to be gay. I have straight friends as well though and again they'r not part of some community. And straight men can be just as bitchy as gay men, so I don't think it's just a gay thing.

by Anonymousreply 17804/11/2014

Honestly, I don't consider gay men to be universally bitchy... and I have no loyalty to the concept of the gay community... I am rejected by it pretty frequently - and I won't say why except I break a main rule.

I also agree with a post upthread that most of us came into the gay community pretty damaged by the view of gay people. I doubt, had our straight people known about us all that time, they would have said what they did... most people aren't actually cruel by nature. (Although maybe they more mean what they say than not, as revealed in the thread My Sister doesn't want my partner sitting with our family at her Wedding.)

As a result of that damage we treat each other very poorly for stupid reasons - same thing goes on in the straight world but it's hyper factored in ours. It isn't bitchiness though it's fear.

by Anonymousreply 17904/11/2014

It seems you may be new to DL. If a person is truly going to commit suicide, they do it, not announce before they do. People that do suicide are to weak to face life, want to get back at someone, it's to try and inflict guilt and usually works. Snark can be a good thing, it helps trivialize something serious, gets many people to laugh and find insight into what is bothering them.

Then again, some are just bitches, run from those types.

by Anonymousreply 18004/11/2014

R180 Save your 2 cents psychology lessons for yourself!

by Anonymousreply 18104/11/2014

A lot of gay men LIVE for conflict. I've been running into more and more young gay guys that are ready to throw fists (or slaps) for anything, just a lot of anger. We are so intensely judgmental of one another.

This one queen at work started raising his voice at me this week because he said I was "turning up" on him. I got his ass right together. We shouldn't do that sort of thing in front of mixed company.

by Anonymousreply 18204/19/2014


by Anonymousreply 18411/08/2015

OP now you're 32. Think of all the weight you've gained and hair you've lost since you first posted your Deep Thoughts!

by Anonymousreply 18511/08/2015

r185, u prove op's point!

by Anonymousreply 18611/08/2015

I disagree with your premise, OP. I find gay people to be uniquely empathetic.

by Anonymousreply 18711/09/2015

The biggest cunts I've met have been straight men. The scheming and gossiping behind your back is just normal for them. Some will smile at you while destroying your life. So OP, no, it's not only just some gay men that value bitchiness over empathy. It is true that some gay guys are only after shiny things. That's a shame but I've long since learnt to just turn away from them and go look elsewhere for the life I want.

by Anonymousreply 18811/09/2015

r187, LMAO

by Anonymousreply 18911/14/2015

I'm not a bitchy queen, I'm a bitchy empress, and my bitch right now is that this is a ridiculous thread because the OP is labeling 'gays' with this type of behavior, when in reality, the behavior described is indulged in by immature assholes of every persuasion, gender, and low reasoning ability.

OP is a legend in his own mind. Then again, so was I when I was a young royal.

by Anonymousreply 19011/15/2015

over generalization. narcissistic types have no empathy chips like my ex boyfriend who decided to hook up with a trans woman. we had reallt long relp. now he doesnt know or avknowledge me.

i attribute it to his narcissism, not to his being gay..uh now he considers him pan

by Anonymousreply 19111/15/2015

Everyone needs a hobby.

by Anonymousreply 19211/15/2015

arrested development

by Anonymousreply 19311/15/2015

r85, true! does this apply to gay women too?

by Anonymousreply 19411/17/2015
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