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I knew a girl who had weight-loss surgery

And she didn't die.

Does anyone have real stories they want to share? Anyone on the DL had it done?

I weigh 230 pounds. My highest weight has been 300 pounds; I've lost 50 in the last year and a half, just eating less. But that's incredibly slow, of course, because I've gone off and on, off and on a diet like most people.

Happy to have lost that amount, but feel it would take another two years before losing the other 100 I would like to.

Seriously considering the Lap Band at this point, just to get it over with and quickly.

I know I'll get the inevitable fat pig, eat less, move more replies; that's fine and you would be correct. I'm just tired of this.

by Anonymousreply 12104/25/2013

I think you are doing fine. I had lap band surgery and truly it doesn't do that much. You still have to do all the work. I can still eat what I want when I want so I can't see what the big deal was. I am now in behavior modification classes to get at the reason I eat. Good luck OP. Just stick with it, maybe add exercise now to speed things up a little.

by Anonymousreply 112/14/2011

It looks to me as though anyone who gets these procedures done ends up looking like a deflated balloon due to the rapid weight loss.

by Anonymousreply 212/14/2011

My sister-in-law recently had the lap band, about 6 months ago. She hasn't lost as much as she hoped.

Gastric bypass, on the other hand...I have three friends who've had it. One is SEVERELY addicted to painkillers, the other already went through a painkiller addiction and is now a heroin addict living in the streets, and the other was so addicted to painkillers that she overdosed and died a few weeks ago. 32 years old.

Someone explained to me that it's because these people had food addictions; once they had the surgery and could no longer be addicted to food, their addictive personality manifests itself with drugs, painkillers, etc.

by Anonymousreply 312/14/2011

I decided to have full gastric bypass in January of this year. Once they got a load of me at the Bariatric Center, they decided to fast track me, since my blood work was sterling, and surgery was April 27th..434 lbs. then, 254 now, 7 and a half months later....34 more lbs to goal weight. My doctors are amazed, not as amazed as I, but when they see me the literally cry tears of joy for me. The best thing I have ever done for myself, and not nearly as scary or difficult as you may have heard. DO NOT go the lapband route- it does not work, nor does the "banana sleeve" surgery- where they remove about half of your stomach. Go for the full bypass. I have gone down 14 suit sizes, 4 shirt sizes, 16 pant sizes...planning on having the cosmetic surgery(!!) in April. They claim they will remove 30-50 lbs. of excess skin.....I'll look like a frankenstein, but who cares....I feel great....

by Anonymousreply 412/14/2011

Good luck, OP. I wish you well.

I've known several people who had it, and here are some summations:

1. High school friend had gastric bypass and did die. She was in her early 20s and weighed more than 300 pounds and she left a son who was about 2 or 3 years old.

2. 60-something woman, gastric bypass. Lost more than 200 pounds, had several secondary surgeries to remove excess skin. Looked great, appeared to feel great. One of the plastic surgeries caused a complication and she ended up with a 3-month hospital stay and nearly died. 3 years later, she has gain back at least half of the weight she originally lost.

3. 58-year-old woman, dear friend, who didn't appear to be extremely overweight to me, but she's short and tiny-framed, so she felt horrible being 75 pounds overweight. She had lapband last summer, with some initial complications that resulted in a couple of return trips to the hospital, but is now doing fine and looks fantastic, but much older, because she still has a lot of loose skin, particularly around her face. I don't know if she'll have work to correct that or if there's a period of time after which it will tighten up some.

Best of luck to you, OP. XOXOX

by Anonymousreply 512/14/2011

Goddamn, a lot of people DO die.

I know; it sounds stupid (thanks for the replies btw) to do something so risky when I have lost 70 pounds from my highest. I just get so tired of the off and on, up and down, months of losing none, and the truth of the matter is because losing weight is HARD to do if you don't discipline yourself and JUST KEEP GOING. Some weeks are great, others are pointless to losing. And so it goes, and it's just incredibly slow due to my own issues.

Wow R4 - that is really great.

It does seem that the 'real' old-school gastric bypass is the most successful thing if you're going to do WLS.

Stories of these people dying in their 30's scares the shit out of me.

I am only 36.

by Anonymousreply 712/14/2011

OP, I had the duodenal switch in 2005, a more invasive form of WLS than the gastric bypass. Here's the "before" photo:

by Anonymousreply 812/14/2011

Here's "after" (taken last year).

by Anonymousreply 912/14/2011

Links don't work for me, R8.

[quote]1. High school friend had gastric bypass and did die. She was in her early 20s and weighed more than 300 pounds and she left a son who was about 2 or 3 years old.

This made me worry. The girlfriend of a good friend of mine has a gastric bypass tomorrow. She is in her twenties and weighs about 300 pounds (I think). Hope everything is going well.

by Anonymousreply 1012/14/2011

You were much prettier before you lost the weight, r9.

by Anonymousreply 1112/14/2011

R1

Could you explain more about your behavior modification classes ?

Food is my emotional crutch and I know I would need to get a handle on that before I'd ever be approved for surgery.

What does it entail and how did you find the specialist/doctor for the behavioral modification.

by Anonymousreply 1212/14/2011

R11 Rubbish. She looks beautiful. She was obviously unhappy and looks really great now.

by Anonymousreply 1312/14/2011

I've known 2 people who had bypass. One seems to be doing ok but she looks haggard/drawn, the way Al Roker does.

The other had drug issues before, and now drinks excessively. He's also gained much of the weight back. Interesting re: the 'trading one addiction for another' angle. I've also heard that many people who have bypass become alcoholics because the alcohol gets absorbed in the colon faster, so the 'high' is better. I think this happened to carnie wilson.

It seems very risky to me. If you are self disciplined enough to stay on the post-op regimen it requires, it might be ok. But if people had that kind of self discipline they wouldn't need it.

by Anonymousreply 1412/14/2011

Although I didn't need to lose as much as you (I lost 75 pounds that I gained when I quit a 3 pack-a-day cigarette habit), I had great sucess in going to a Doctor Supervised Weight Loss Clinic and taking appetite suppressants (Phentremine/Fastin). Although you don't want to take these for more than 90 days, it will jump-start your program. While I was taking this med, I followed a low carb/high proteirn diet (Atkins Diet) and I walked every nitht for 30 minutes to an hour. I lost the weight in about 8 months and have kept it off for 2 years now. A word of caution...no weight loss program will work until YOU are committed to losing the pounds. Drugs/Diet/Exercise alone won't work...it has to be a life long program of eating healthy and exercising. Good luck.

by Anonymousreply 1512/14/2011

I had band surgery. I've lost 80 lb in 2.5 years. The goal is to lose 15 more pounds by the three year mark.

I haven't had any medical issues since having the band and most of time feel great.

I did join a gym after losing my first 50 lb. that has made a huge difference in firming things up.

My older sister also had the same surgery and after quickly losing 50 lbs has gained most of it back since she does all the things you're not supposed to do (ice cream, sugary high calorie drinks).

Band surgery is not a quick fix, it is an aid.

I am happy I did it.

by Anonymousreply 1612/14/2011

I, like r15, went to a weight loss clinic. I only have ten pounds to lose, but they have me b injections, lipotropic injections, and phentermine. It has been one week, and I am down three pounds. The diet pills really work to curb your hunger, and give you energy.

by Anonymousreply 1712/14/2011

Do not go under the knife unless it is absolutely necessary. Continue to diet and exercise. Look how well you've done so far! Slow and steady wins the race.

by Anonymousreply 1812/14/2011

.......and then she died

by Anonymousreply 1912/14/2011

I know several people who've had it. Only one had a good outcome.

1) Gastric bypass and strict adherence to the post-surgical diet took him from 400 lbs to 200, and a number of health problems have vanished. Is overjoyed with the results.

2) Had lap band, and lost 30 lbs where she needed to lose 100. Very disappointed.

3) Had gastric bypass, and gained the weight back within 5 years. Looks gray and saggy, as well as being just as fat.

4) Had post-surgical leakage, and was in the hospital for weeks and had a second surgery to remove more intestines. Is alive, which wasn't guaranteed, and has trouble digesting enough food to function.

5) Similar to #4, only grosser.

by Anonymousreply 2012/14/2011

Is the lap ban reversible?

by Anonymousreply 2212/14/2011

I was considering it, but decided to join Food Addicts in Recovery Anonymous (12 step program--like OA, but with a food plan). Basically, it's no flour/no sugar and I lost 105 pounds in 8 months without much in the way of exercise. Going to the gym now and I feel fantastic! I'm so glad I found FA before surgery. Over a third of my local fellowship are people who had surgery and gained back their weight because it didn't stop their addictive eating.

by Anonymousreply 2312/14/2011

Yes, r22. You can have the band removed or have fluid removed to expand the opening.

by Anonymousreply 2412/14/2011

I lost 125lbs in 9 months on WW. But it took another 6 months to lose an additional 25 lbs. I just got stuck and could not seem to lose anymore. I realize now I should have stepped up the exercise. Just walking was not enough. I know I can eat less which the surgery would require but I hesitate because of fear of complications.

by Anonymousreply 2512/14/2011

Are you hungry all the time OP? If you are the lap band will help with that, But you still have to do all the same work you are doing now....

good luck

by Anonymousreply 2612/14/2011

OP, I've lost about 55 pounds in the past 18 months and have about 70 to 80 to go. If I think about it I get depressed, but I remind myself that I didn't gain it all overnight. At one point I considered getting gastric bypass but decided not to. Mom and my aunt had it and both gained most of their weight back and weigh more than I do! Plus, some foods still make Mom sick. They're emotional overeaters, and the surgery doesn't cure that. Unless someone gets intense therapy aimed at those issues he/she will likely gain the weight back. Then there's saggy skin to deal with.

Losing it like I have is best. I've made small, gradual changes I can live with. I don't have saggy skin either. Most of all, I don't feel deprived or have to worry about certain foods making me sick. I haven't consistently exercised or eaten well, but I have done so enough of the time to lose a lot of weight. I've realized it's not about being perfect; I do my best every day and live with the idea of becoming healthier and getting diabetes under control.

Here are some things I've done:

(1) I've cut out soda. I drink water, water, and more water. Sometimes I use some drink mix that is 10 calories per 16 ounces and is made with stevia and cane sugar.

(2) Eat throughout the day. If I'm not very hungry I snack on fruit or make a smoothie.

(3) Breakfast is a must. That's when I sometimes eat the fruit or make a smoothie.

(4) Cook with fresh, organic, whole foods and limit processed food as much as you can.

(5) Exercise whenever you can. If you can only walk one block do it and steadily increase it. Before you know it you'll be up to a mile. Then two miles. Eventually you'll be able to run.

(6) Believe in yourself! Give yourself credit for not drinking that extra soda or not gaining any weight. Everything you change will add up to big changes.

by Anonymousreply 2712/14/2011

R5 here again, OP. Have you done any research on HCG supervised by a physician?

A friend runs a physician-supervised clinic and lots of people have experienced fantastic results from it.

I'm including a link to her fb page, but it's likely there are similar programs in your city, as well, and it could be worth your time to explore it as an option before having surgery.

One note: studies have shown over-the-counter HCG without a physician's supervision are not effective.

by Anonymousreply 2812/14/2011

I have a cousin who had the lab band procedure. She was over 300 lbs. She lost most of the extra weight the first year. I recently asked my mom about her, and she said, "Oh, she's fat again! She learned how to eat around it." LOL

After she lost all the weight, she was left with disfiguring excess skin. Of course, she didn't have the money to have the excess skin removed, so she became depressed.

by Anonymousreply 2912/14/2011

r23, great work! Can you post what you eat on an average day? Are you hungry a lot and just get used to it?

Is the extra flappy skin a function of how you lose the weight, ie if you lose it slowly it gives your skin time to shrink back? Or if you're huge to begin with are you just going to have all that skin?

I noticed on Biggest Loser last night the men seemed to be wearing girdles that kept their extra skin from jiggling.

by Anonymousreply 3012/14/2011

OP, I joined a forum for lap-band patients to help me decide. Based on that, I decided against it. Sounds like food was constantly getting stuck on the band, causing a disgusting and unpleasant condition called "sliming." It actually sounded harder to me to live with a lap band than to adhere to a diet.

The pre- and post-surgical diet sounds like hell.

While lap band is removable, it's a bigger deal than I thought to have it removed, because it can cause scarring and other things. So it's not like, Oh, this isn't for me, I changed my mind..."

I decided against it and went to a weight-loss doc. I agree with the others that it sounds like you're doing great.

by Anonymousreply 3112/14/2011

R23 here -- In FA, flour and sugar are considered anathema to the food addict in the same way that alcohol is for an alcoholic. At first, it's really tough, but once it's gone, the clarity is amazing. I never knew how it affected me until it was gone.

For weight loss, I ate the following:

Breakfast -- 8 oz full fat plain yogurt. 6 oz or 1 piece of fruit, 1 serving oatmeal (cooked with water), 2 T flax seed

Lunch -- 4 oz protein or two eggs or 2 oz cheese, 6 oz salad or 6 oz cooked vegetable, 1 T olive oil, 6 oz or 1 piece of fruit

Dinner -- 4 oz protein, 6 oz cooked vegetable, 8 oz salad, 2 T olive oil

Now that i've lost the weight I have 4 oz grain (rice, quinoa or potato) at lunch and dinner, along with fruit at dinner. When I was training for an athletic event, I also had another 8 oz of yogurt at lunch.

Honestly, it's just another diet...which I would have been wholly unable to follow without my sponsor and the support of the fellowship. But that's me.

by Anonymousreply 3212/14/2011

I have a friend who had the surgery where they remove most of his stomach (banana pouch maybe?)about 3 years ago. When he went in for the surgery he weighed over 500lbs. in the firs 18 months he lost arround l50lbs. But now, 3 years later, the weight is starting to come back on him, but it's not the fault of the surgery. He has pushed and pushed to get his stomach to hold more food. I don't understand why he would do this to himself, but he has bigger issues than being morbidly obese. I think he saw the gastric surgery as being able to fix the reason why he ate so much, which of course it couldn't. Also, he didn't follow any of the post op dirrections, or any ind of diet. It's sad to see, but he knows he's the only one stuffing 2 double quarter pounders in his face every day for lunch.

by Anonymousreply 3312/14/2011

The procedure I had also removes most of the stomach and, yes, the stomach naturally stretches over time. You start out and you're unable to eat more than a few bites. I can now eat most (sometimes all) of a normal-sized entree at a restaurant.

The reason I have not gained back much weight (and can take unwanted weight off relatively easily if I do gain) is that my procedure, unlike the gastric bypass, also re-routed the small intestine so that pancreatic enzymes are introduced into the digestive process about 2/3 of the way through. As a result, I absorb about 1/3 of the calories I do eat, and even less of the fat. The way to sabotage the procedure is by eating/drinking sugary things, which are absorbed entirely. Cut out sugar, and the weight drops off.

(The links worked fine for me at home, but not at work; don't know why. Sorry.)

by Anonymousreply 3412/14/2011

You'd be much better off using the money on a good therapist, who can help you overcome the emotional issues that are causing you to be so overweight.

by Anonymousreply 3512/14/2011

I know two people who had the lap band procedure. Both are still obese. I don't understand it at all. And it's not pleasant eating with them -- they eat soooo slooowly and belch all the time. Ugh. And they're still obese. What is the point?

by Anonymousreply 3612/14/2011

Never heard of the 'sliming'. I honestly don't understand how that would be preferable to being overweight. The great thing about being overweight is you can change it.

by Anonymousreply 3712/14/2011

I know someone who had the band thingy. She is 50 and tried to lose weight but didn't like the dieting and the thinking about it. She lost a lot of weight, not sure how much and she does look great though her weight loss has plated before reaching her goal.

The problem is that while she can eat anything, everything must be cut into tiny pieces. The littlest thing gets stuck and then she has to vomit. It's a small price as far as she is concerned but I cannot imagine her doing this for the rest of her life.

Another friend lost about 70lbs on weight watchers, 11 years ago. She gained back about 10 lbs but she is keeping it within a lcd range. She looks fine feels fine but claims that food was never about loving certain foods but more of a compulsive eating behavior. She still eats a lot, she claims, but it's all non fat high fiber so it never translates to gaining weight. She can eat a whole bag of carrots in one sitting, it is filling it takes care of the compulsion to much and it's low cal. She doesn't do carrots every day, she switches to other veggies. Hardly eats any carbs. Never saw her eat anything higher than 1% fat. As I said it was never about loving food so missing sweets and treats is not a problem for her.

by Anonymousreply 3812/14/2011

Op, you first have to figure out your BMR by using an online calculator. The Basal Metobolic Rate is how many calories your body burns just resting all day. Once you have that number, you times it by 1.1, 1.2, 1.3 or 1.4 depending on how active you are. 1 being lowest (do you sit all day) to 4 being most active (construction worker or something like that). Once you have that number, that represents how many calories you'd have to eat each day just to maintain your current weight. To lose 2 lbs a week, you have to eat 7000 calories less a week than that number. 1 lb = 3500 calories. You can either do a diet or exercise or both to reach that 7000 calorie a week deficit.

Track your calories online using a free site like sparkpeople. I have been doing this and have lost 34 lbs. I'm consistently losing 2 lbs per week. To combat hunger pangs, eat some popcorn or get some fiber pills. I eat whatever I want, I just stay within my calories each week and I am losing.

by Anonymousreply 3912/14/2011

What are fiber pills?

by Anonymousreply 4012/14/2011

r12 this is r1

This class is part of my lap band follow up. You have months of pre and months of post op. This is a four week class, once a week, and you can take them once a year to help keep you on track.

First week is to pinpoint your basic problem, the biggest one. You not only eat because you're sad or lonely but when you are happy, mad etc. You probably already know that, I did.

Second week you start journaling and get some books to read up on. One good one for me was How to Sooth Yourself Without Food. I need to be comforted and have used food for that for years.

Third was your relationships and how to make them work for you not against you. I did learn some tips on how to get what you need without angering my family and friends. I did some of them and so far it has been about 50/50 for me.

The last week was to go over what we learned and what we had done that worked and then how to keep it up. The keeping up part will be lousy I know.

Let's face it sometimes food is all we have. I know now that the lap band is not really working, I had been told that the pinching of the vagus nerve would lessen my appetite but since I don't eat for hunger but for other issues it has done diddley squat for me.

I have lost 65# and need to lose another 60# for my knee surgery. My family has to have knee replacements because of lousy gene pool when it comes to osteoarthritis and the Dr won't touch me unless I take off at least 100# and preferably 125#. I am working my butt off in exercise and did OK for the first 50# and then had about three crises which I am trying to come down off of. Sometimes I hate life but it is the only alternative since it's the only game in town.

I guess you could call your primary care doc and ask if s/he knows where these types of classes are in our area. This one was run by a psychologist and she was really good. Didn't just pontificate but led a good discussion. Good luck I know how hard this is.

by Anonymousreply 4112/15/2011

I started at around 235lbs and with diet/exercise I've gotten down to around 170 but I have loose skin even though I've taken the weight off the long slow way and I've still got at least 10lbs to go before I'm at the high end of my ideal weight range 160lbs at 5'9.Has anyone here had the surgery for tightening loose skin and was it hard/painful and how much did it cost?

by Anonymousreply 4212/15/2011

I had it 3 years ago and it's the best thing I ever did. My doctor was great and filled it up very slowly while I got used to it. Lost 90 pounds and have kept it off.

by Anonymousreply 4312/15/2011

R42, how long did it take you to lose those 65 pounds? CONGRATS by the way. I just wondered since you siad you took the weight off "the long slow way", is excess skin still a problem? Does your body adapt?

Seriously, I am worried about dealing with excess skin once the weight is off. I can deal with stretchmarks, etc., and I know that our skin becomes less elastic with age, but is surgery the only option?

by Anonymousreply 4412/15/2011

r8, you look hot. You were pretty before, too - so that helps. Congratulations.

by Anonymousreply 4512/15/2011

Why are you worried about excess skin? If you're so heavy that it might be a problem, that's the LEAST of your problems. Lose the weight to get healthy, THEN worry about what to do with all that skin. Maybe get a stylish tattoo that you can fold up.

by Anonymousreply 4612/15/2011

[quote]THEN worry about what to do with all that skin.

Don't belittle my concerns over how my body will look and what I'll have to deal with after weight loss. I am looking at (excuse me) the larger picture, and if you haven't walked a mile in these stretched-out moccasins, kemosabe, then shut your trap.

by Anonymousreply 4712/15/2011

Uh, I am walking in your moccains. I weighed 300 lbs. until September of this year. I now weight 266. So believe me when I tell you that I don't give a crap if I have excess skin when I'm done on my journey. I just want to be healthy, kemosabe.

by Anonymousreply 4812/15/2011

[quote]I don't give a crap if I have excess skin when I'm done on my journey. I just want to be healthy, kemosabe.

Fair enough. But I do, and I don't think I'm alone. We're transforming our bodies and I want to know full details about how skin recuperates, if it can, naturally. I hate thinking about surgery, but if that's the only option, I'd like to know.

I realize I'll never have the body I did at 20 years old, but I want to know how anyone who has lost a substantial amount of weight has dealt with stretched-out skin.

Sorry if it grosses anyone out, but since people have been so honest here, I'm hoping for honest advice about this.

by Anonymousreply 4912/15/2011

R23 here again -- I know a woman who had a full body tuck this past year (tummy tuck where they pull up your lower half, as well). She also had the skin under her arms trimmed and a boob lift. I think it all cost close to $35,000. It's major, major surgery, with a significant recovery time (on the order of weeks), but she is thrilled. She says she would do it over a thousand times.

Caveat --apparently, any surgeon worth their board certification will tell you to take off the weight and keep it off for at least 18 months before surgery. This gives the body time to shift into it's final distribution. I know my body shape has changed a lot even after the weight stopped coming off. There are simply NO quick fixes...no matter how much we wish for them. Good luck!

by Anonymousreply 5012/15/2011

OP, talk to R4 in 5 years. Very few of these don't result in severe side effects from ongoing malnutrition.

by Anonymousreply 5112/15/2011

Thanks, R45 and R13.

Re: excess skin: It depends on your age, how quickly you lose the weight, and how much you've lost. I have not had it done, though I've thought about at least a tummy tuck and boob job. I am not self-conscious about my arms, but I will not wear shorts or skirts above the knee. I wear board shorts at the beach. And I thank God for Wonderbras and Spanx, and a loving partner who does not mind.

My brother, who lost over 200# with the lap band and continuing diet/exercise, plans to have surgery to firm up the torso and his legs. For men who want to take their shirts off, I completely get it. I am just apprehensive about what can be a painful recovery (especially thighs). I've heard many times that the ps recovery is worse than the laparoscopic WLS.

by Anonymousreply 5212/15/2011

How do people afford these procedures? I mean we're talking about normal people with normal incomes. My insurance just started paying for a percentage of bariatric surgery, but what about the surgery to remove excess skin? How do you pay for it?

by Anonymousreply 5312/15/2011

[quote]Very few of these don't result in severe side effects from ongoing malnutrition.

Is malnutrition what causes the sunken cheeks look? If you're malnourished, doesn't it cause discomfort?

by Anonymousreply 5412/15/2011

They cannot staff the ICU at our local hospital since 2 drs started doing gastric bypass. The nurses all hurt their backs from having to turn and position post-op patients and the hospital now uses traveling nurses to staff the ICU. Every three months, they import a new batch.

by Anonymousreply 5512/15/2011

R8, you look great.

Anyone looking to lose weight and keep it off should know and understand the information in the book at the link. Once you really understand why your body turns food into fat (as [opposed to using it efficiently), and how, you can begin to get a grip on things. (It's not just about the calories.)

by Anonymousreply 5612/15/2011

[quote]In FA, flour and sugar are considered anathema to the food addict in the same way that alcohol is for an alcoholic. At first, it's really tough, but once it's gone, the clarity is amazing. I never knew how it affected me until it was gone.

I can echo that. Cutting right down (and I mean as in none on most days) on wheat and carbs has literally changed my life, and not just by lowering my weight. It's made me discover health I thought I'd lost forever with the advancing years.

R41, if there is arthritis in your family, you need to read the book I've linked. Eating this way got rid of my joint pain and other inflammatory problems. Same for anyone who suffers from food addictions. Modern wheat has an opiate-like chemical effect on the brain - and, for many people, needs to be kicked like a drug.

by Anonymousreply 5712/15/2011

(42)here,It took me a around 3 years to get down to my present weight and that was just with diet alone.Now with exercise I'm losing a couple of pounds a week but at the moment I'm still stuck at around 170 and I have a bit of loose skin around my upper thighs and stomach and some on my chest so I may have more by the time I get down to my ideal weight.That's why I wanted to know about the surgical options for tightening the skin.

by Anonymousreply 5812/15/2011

Is there any way insurance will pay for the full body lift surgery?

by Anonymousreply 5912/16/2011

r57 what do you mean by 'modern wheat'?

Can you summarize Why We Get Fat?

by Anonymousreply 6012/16/2011

Well r55 your hospital is stupid not to buy the lifts. They are air pillows that allow the staff to move a person without hurting their backs. Tell HR if they don't get a few for surgery, since Americans are only going to get fatter, they better invest in a few of these or they may get sued up the yin/yang. After all fatties have other kinds of surgery also and they pay big bucks for it. Hospitals love overweight patients since they usually have to pay way more for ops have more post op problems and stay longer. Insurance companies hate them but not hospitals. You cant get a small wheel chair anymore unless you go the pediatrics.

by Anonymousreply 6112/16/2011

I have underlying health problems that contributed to my weight gain so I may get some surgery on the apron for a reduced rate. I am also saving to go to either Thailand or India to get the rest. It will take at least 2 years for the whole weight loss thing and I will have enough. Right now you can get a full body torso type thing. They do part then ship you off to a 4 star resort for a few weeks managed recovery and then do the rest. I don't want my face done just the turkey wattle that is developing and the underarm batwings, torso and thighs to knees. It is less than half what it costs here even with the resort stay. I am looking forward to it and keep a picture of the resort on the fridge so I can use it to keep focused.

by Anonymousreply 6212/16/2011

Where the heck is charlie? He's on every other thread on here, and this is his specialty/profession. I'd think he'd have a lot to contribute.

by Anonymousreply 6312/16/2011

After the surgery you eat 1/2 cup portion of food several times a day.

Do that now and skip the surgery. The weight will come off just as fast.

by Anonymousreply 6412/16/2011

and another bump...

by Anonymousreply 6512/16/2011

Are there places online to see how the skin tightening surgery is done?

by Anonymousreply 6612/20/2011

More gastric updates!

Anyone regret it? What do you do about the loose skin?

by Anonymousreply 6706/30/2012

My doctor recommended Duodenal—Jejunal Bypass Sleeve. I'm going to go to the meeting at the Fletcher-Allen clinic, but four friends of mine have had gastric surgery of different types. One is dead, the other three aren't as thin as they'd hoped and have other health problems.

by Anonymousreply 6806/30/2012

1 in 100 die from weight loss surgery

by Anonymousreply 6906/30/2012

OP, exercise and stop eating so much. You'll just gain it back if you go for a quick fix and don't change your behavior.

by Anonymousreply 7006/30/2012

Have any of you found that your loved ones treat you different after the weight loss?

I was in the hospital for kidney surgery and struck up many conversations with the nicest nurse.

She had been 778lbs before she had the Roux N-Y weight loss surgery. She weighs about 180lbs now.I was dumbstruck. I couldn't believe she weighed that much before surgery.

She had the skin surgery from the waist up and was planning on having the surgery done from the waist down.

Anyway she said her husband left her once she lost all her weight. She said it is very common for marriages and relationships to go bust after this sort of life change.

Have any of you found this to be true?

by Anonymousreply 7106/30/2012

Take all the dinner plates out of the kitchen cabinet and store them in the garage, attic, or linen closet. Eat your meals from a salad plate. By Christmas, you'll lose 50 lbs.

by Anonymousreply 7206/30/2012

To qualify for gastric bypass or lapband surgery, I think you have to have a BMI of 40 or above. So unless you're 5'3" or shorter, you don't qualify.

by Anonymousreply 7307/01/2012

I hope no doctor would operate on someone who is already successfully losing weight just because he wanted it to go faster. Why risk your life for impatience?

by Anonymousreply 7407/01/2012

You can have a BMI of 35 if you have other health problems (eg diabetes). I don't recommend Lapband unless you are a volume eater (vs being an emotional eater). Also you need to be self disciplined to not want to try to outsmart or "eat around" the band. Gastric bypass may a better option for long term success.

by Anonymousreply 7507/01/2012

Btw gastric bypass also has a more immediate effect of reversing metabolic syndrome. It also affects ghrelin, which has a significant impact on appetite. The band does not. I've had the band since 2002 and I gained back abt 45% of what I lost. I had a BMI of 40. Now my BMI is 28 and has been for a couple of years. I constantly am hungry and am addicted to sugar since those foods are easy to get past the band. Pathetic, I know. :(

by Anonymousreply 7607/01/2012

In my early twenties, I lost 250 lbs over a course of 10 years through diet and then exercise. I don't care what "The biggest loser" tells you, no amount of weight lifting is going to pick up your stomach when it droops down midthigh. If you have a massive weight loss, you are going to have loose skin no matter how slow you take it or how many weights you lift.

I paid 8,000 for an arm lift. I took nothing stronger then tylenol and didn't find it painful at all. The only discomfort really was the first few days when they have your arms wrapped up tight in so much gauze that you can't put your arms down and you look like a zombie walking around with your arms stretched out in front of you.

by Anonymousreply 7707/01/2012

Continued from R77.

All I have left is a thin scar up the underside of my arms that you would not notice unless you were staring 5 inches away from my arms and knew what you were looking for. The surgery was worth every penny. I was down to a size small, but would always have to buy large baggy blouses and sweaters to cram in all the arm skin. I highly recommend that surgery. FYI, your results take awhile to see. When the doctor removed the bandages 3 days later I almost cried because they looked so fat and swollen, but that is NOT your real result. It's going to be swollen for a few weeks and then it shrinks down and looks great.

I paid 11K for a tummy tuck and that wasn't painful either but I didn't have the muscle repair as was told I didn't need it. I'm in a major metro city so those prices are probably higher than if you are getting the procedure done in say Idaho. You would be surprised at the number of women who go to Mexico to have like 5 procedures done at once. Even with airfare and the hotel stay, it still probably comes out to like half of what they would have paid in America. Insurance does NOT want to pay for anything. I have a friend who also lost weight and has a very heavy pannus hanging down which constantly is red and irritated from fungal rashes and the insurance compan keeps asking for tons of pictures, years of medical records documenting all the times she had to be treated for the infections, etc.

by Anonymousreply 7807/01/2012

R77, R76 here...I had to have a lower body lift...best thing I ever did! Nothing else was gonna get rid of the skin hanging off of my midsection. Unexpected benefit was that it looked like I got a boob job because now they stick out further than my torso. ;)

by Anonymousreply 7907/01/2012

Today’s Dear Mark topic is a sensitive one: excess, or loose skin after major weight loss. This is a problem for a lot of people, and it can really take the sails out of someone who’s had otherwise seamless success losing weight. I may ruffle a few feathers here, but I assure my intent is merely to give folks who have loose skin the best shot at reaching their desired body composition. So, as you read my response to the reader question, keep that in mind.

With that said, let’s get to it:

Hi Mark,

Excess skin after weight loss is a big topic in most weight loss communities, yet I rarely hear about it in the Primal community. Does the Primal lifestyle prevent excess skin? Are there any tips from either yourself or from the members of the community about avoiding or preventing excess skin after weight loss? I am currently approx 100 lbs overweight so this is something that really concerns me.

Gabrielle

Before getting into potential methods of treating and/or preventing excess skin after weight loss, let’s explore the phenomenon itself. What exactly is loose, or excess skin?

Most cases of loose skin are actually just cases of excess subcutaneous body fat covered by skin. And because subcutaneous fat is “soft” fat, it is looser and easier to confuse with skin. It droops and jiggles and the skin that surrounds it conforms to its shape. That’s not to suggest that legitimately loose skin isn’t a real problem, because it is. But I would wager that many if not most cases of loose skin can be explained by overly stubborn deposits of subcutaneous fat.

Stubborn fat is actually a real thing. As Martin Berkhan explains, adipose tissue is full of alpha-2 and beta-2 receptors. A-2 and b-2 receptors are the major lipolytic receptors in adipose tissue, meaning they interact with the catecholamines (adrenaline and noradrenaline) to cause stored body fat to release. B-2 receptors are associated with “easy fat,” or fat that burns off easily. A-2 receptors are associated with “stubborn fat,” or fat that’s harder to burn. All adipose tissue has both a-2 and b-2 receptors, and the higher the b-2:a-2 ratio, the easier it is to burn the fat. The lower the ratio, the more stubborn the fat. Belly fat has a notoriously low b-2:a-2 ratio, which is why it’s usually the last to go (especially for men). If your belly fat is stubborn, it may resemble loose skin even as the rest of your body has mostly leaned out.

If your loose skin is thicker than a few millimeters, there is residual body fat. And because adipose tissue – which, remember, is actually a major endocrine organ, rather than an inert piece of tissue – remains, the skin has no reason to return to its former size and elasticity. As long as the subcutaneous fat attached to it remains, the skin will appear loose and drape-y. Skin that fills your hand when you squeeze it isn’t just skin.

This isn’t really bad news, believe it or not. It actually means that you’re almost there. It means that your “loose skin” isn’t necessarily out of your control. If indeed it is simply stubborn subcutaneous fat, once you manage to lose the excess fat, the “loose skin” might just disappear along with it. In fact, I’d imagine that most such cases of “loose skin” can and will be remedied in this manner. Men, get down to around 10-12% body fat before you start considering surgery or anything drastic. Women, get down to 15-17% body fat before taking any surgical steps.

Hey, if that sounded harsh to you, at least I’m not as bad as Ron Brown, PhD, who claims loose skin is nothing but a myth. Go ahead and check out his argument, but try to avoid meeting his steely gaze. Lock eyes with Dr. Ron at your own peril; you will be consumed. Despite the intense shirtless photo, he has a point that skin is not a passive slab of flesh. Instead, it is an active organ that should be able to adapt to the body’s “internal and external environment.”

That said, if your loose skin is paper thin, closer to the thickness of your eyelid or the back of your hand (about 1 mm thick), and resembles rolled up papyrus or parchment

by Anonymousreply 8007/01/2012

TMI, but it needs to be said.

For the very obese females on this thread, you most likely will also have the very fatty pubic mound that protrudes out and makes you look like a ken doll. When you lose a lot of weight, that area gets very saggy as well. All that extra skin traps sweat and air can't circulate. When you have a tummy tuck, most docs will do a pubic lift as well and let me tell you it will change your life. For YEARS I had chronic itching problems in that area and the problem literally went away the day after a tummy tuck.

by Anonymousreply 8107/01/2012

R71-

I think relationships can shift when someone loses weight because the system shifts. For example if food was something the two people overindulged in together or if the relationship dynamic was predicated on someone being "the fat one" or "the addicted one" then you may see some friction when one partner changes.

I've known a few folks who have had lap band surgeries and they have all gained the weight back by figuring out how to work around the limitations of the band. I think dealing with the emotional aspect of the weight is really important and I think folks should have to get therapy prior to doing the lap band.

by Anonymousreply 8207/01/2012

I'm sorry, but if that woman weighed almost 800lbs and her husband was still with her, her weight might have been the main attraction so to speak. There are some men who literally force feed their wives to get to that extent to where the woman can barely walk and is completely dependent on the husband.He must bathe her, dress her, feed her, etc. At 800lbs, it is very hard to be mobile, especially for an average height woman, let alone be a working nurse? Odds are, she lost the weight, went to nursing school if she wasn't already one in the first place, became a fully functioning independent adult no longer reliant on her husband. Hubby couldn't deal and left.

This of course is different than the 300lb housewife whose husband dumps her when she becomes thin because when she was fat she had to be sooo grateful to him for staying with her and he knew she would never cheat because who else but him would want her? That case usually involves fragile male egos.

by Anonymousreply 8307/01/2012

Why are there so many of us obese folks on data lounge? Are we all raging Internet addicts? And are we addicted to Internet because we are fat or fat because we are addicted to Internet?

by Anonymousreply 8407/01/2012

Why don't people who diet ave as much loose skin?

by Anonymousreply 8507/01/2012

As mentioned the lap band is not as good.

I know three people who have had it. One is doing very well after about a year, another gained all her weight back, and I believe it contributed to my cousin's death.

You are doing great. Keep it up. I think the bariatric surgery can cause some big problems and it may not keep you - read Carnie Wilson - from gaining weight again.

by Anonymousreply 8607/01/2012

I love how R83 blames men for the obese woman/women.

Well done! And too true!

by Anonymousreply 8707/01/2012

Had bariatric surgery five years ago, lost 85 lbs, kept 70 of it off. have had no health issues as a result, but know some who have. I'm a man and I gather, as a rule, men have an easier time with the procedure than women. I am very glad I did it, but if you are succeeding with diet and exercise, I'd say keep on that oute, and turn to bariatric surgery only if you reach a point where diet and exercise (which you have to do post-surgery anyway) stop working and your health is still in danger.

by Anonymousreply 8807/01/2012

I went to a class for six months that gets you ready for the surgery (our insurance wouldn't cover the surgery unless we attended the classes), in my class there were like 16 people, we all had the surgery around the same time and everyone is looking great and feeling awesome... some had the rny and some the sleeve.. I had the sleeve, you don't lose as fast as the rny, but I must say, I have lost almost the same amount as my classmates that went the rny route.. I am 9 months out.. so the banana shape or rather sleeve works just fine.. I was a size 18/20 and now I have a pair of levi's shorts that are size 4 (: Oh...the doctor will tell you, this is not a cure, so you have to work at it.. but if you do what the surgeon tells you and take your vitamins you will do fine...for me, the best route is the sleeve.. if the sleeve doesn't work, you can go and have the rny done, if you have the rny done, there is nothing to do after that if you gain the weight back.. lapband is for people who dont have but maybe 50 lbs to lose.. I now don't have to take metformin, or all my stomach problem pills, and I feel great..if you can lose it on your own, great.. I went many years trying and finally decided this is the right road for me.. Good Luck to you I think everyone who has this surgery, should be required to attend the classes.. they even have guest speakers of people who have had the surgery..

by Anonymousreply 8910/22/2012

My brother-in-law ate through his lap band twice. I thought he wouldn't be able to eat large portions. We went on vacation together shortly after he had it done, and I noticed he was piling the food in just like before. When I asked him how the surgery went, it was like he remembered, Oh! That's right. And then he started taking little bites, saying he could only eat so much. His thing is he went hungry in his childhood. I think it left a hole in his psyche. I don't know if he'll ever be able to take off the weight. Meanwhile, my sister is heavy now too because she eats his cooking and she's developed low self-esteem since she too has gotten so big.

by Anonymousreply 9010/22/2012

size 18/20 is really not severely obese (that's only around 200 pounds)r89. Certainly not enough weight to warrant surgery.

Yes, I know 200 pounds is obese - but for surgery I thought your weight had to be much higher. At 200 pounds, diet and exercise work (albeit, not as fast as surgery)

by Anonymousreply 9110/22/2012

I know this is really late from when this was originally posted, but I would like to address the issue of excess skin. No matter if you lose weight by surgery or just by exercise you will still have loose skin. This is because the skin is stretch and it will never fully go back to being tight. This means that everyone who said about exercise and eating right is the way to go because it is slower and gives your skin "time to shrink" is completely and utterly wrong. Also, weight loss surgery is not the easy way out, it is a tool to assist you in weight loss. You still need to work out and eat correctly or you will not lose as much weight as you want or you will gain your weight back.

by Anonymousreply 9210/24/2012

[quote]This means that everyone who said about exercise and eating right is the way to go because it is slower and gives your skin "time to shrink" is completely and utterly wrong.

It depends. Genetics has a lot to do with whether your skin sags, as does age, the amount of time you've been obese and of course, how obese you are. Also, if you've still got fat under the skin, that affects the "sag".

by Anonymousreply 9310/24/2012

My cousin was 35 when he had gastric Bypass done - he was easily 350. Lost 150 lbs in a year and within the next year gained it all back +more. He stretched out that little pocket and forced the food down.

If you don't address the emotional issues they'll come and get you one way or another. SAD.

My Sister's college roommate similar situation - always the fat girl - got the gastric bypass when she was in her 20s (easily 150lbs overweight) lost all the weight- even got the surgery to remove extra skin - looked FAB in a bikini! Nabbed a cutie husband then pushed out a kid and GAINED IT ALL BACK.

by Anonymousreply 9410/24/2012

MOOOOOO-Ve closer honey

by Anonymousreply 9610/24/2012

The surgery will never ever affect your Binge Eating Disorder issue. Ever. You need to go to Overeaters Anonymous. You need to work on your head why you are binging for emotional support.

Same thing as to why diets don't work.

Get yourself onto myfitnesspal or another calorie counting website. Go to OA. There are online OA meetings, go. Or go in person or do both.

Your HEAD is the reason you're overweight.

Also walking everywhere will help, but get to OA online now.

by Anonymousreply 9710/24/2012

R4 here.....with an update. I just hit my goal weight of 175 lbs. and tomorrow is my 18 month anniversary- lost 260 lbs so far, going to the gym with a trainer 2X a week, feel great, taking my vitamins,and NOT overeating....its all about the exercise, the vitamins, the 64 oz. of water you MUST take in each day, no booze- or one or two a month, and the fact that everyone I know has been so supportive and encouraging. Do not go for the banana sleeve or the lapband - they do not work. Full RNY gastric bypass is the only way out.....

by Anonymousreply 9810/24/2012

Having gastric bypass on December 11

by Anonymousreply 9910/25/2012

I work in a medical office. I have probably about fifty patients that have had bariatric procedures. The people who are successful go to the surgeon who has an aftercare program, including emotional support groups, behavioral therapy, and exercise. You have to contract to do this before he will operate on you. He also has stringent requirements for accepting patients. You have to have a psychiatric eval and go through several months of therapy and exercise and nutritional management. If you don't do the work, he won't do the surgery. His patients are very successful. He also manages their complications such as depression and vitamin deficiencies which occur even if the surgery is done absolutely correctly. There are two other groups in town who just do the surgery, and their people are not nearly as successful. It is very hard to do all of that on your own. If you are going to take that kind of a chance with your body, save the money to have the support staff to make it a success. We have seen a couple of deaths even under the best of circumstances. The morbidly obese are very high risk for surgical complications. You really have to be ready to take a big chance. It should never be looked at as a quick fix. I also have two ladies in my practice that have lost over 100 pounds in about 18 mo time with weight watchers and walking every day. They have kept it off over five years. They are older ladies who traditionally have the hardest time losing weight. They are lifers and attend a meeting every week. That approach can be successful with a lot of patients, and it isn't dangerous.

by Anonymousreply 10010/26/2012

An acquaintance of mine had it around 4 years ago at the beginning of 2008. I spoke to him on the phone a few months after the surgery and he sounded ten years younger. The wheezing was gone. He sounded much more energetic. His wife said he became a runner. There are photos and videos of him on the internet (he is very successful in his field) and he kept looking better and better. By 2009, he looked fantastic.

Well, just the other day I saw a recent photo of him and the weight is coming back. The double chin is back, the suit is tight at the waist. He looks older.

By the way, this is someone who makes tens of millions a year. He can afford a personal chef, a nutritionist and a trainer. I haven't been in touch, so I don't know if he still works out, and what the deal is with his eating habits, but I hope he stays healthy.

by Anonymousreply 10111/11/2012

I had gastric bypass 4 years ago. Weighed 330. I'm at 170 now & I've never gained any back. My stomach never stretched either--to this day I can only eat a few ounces of food at a time. I guess it all depends on the person and their surgeon.

by Anonymousreply 10211/11/2012

Put the fork down!

You whinny fat asses with your "emotional problems" and excuses are pathetic.

Stop sitting around eating and feeling sorry for yourself.

Go DO something.

by Anonymousreply 10311/11/2012

Tips for weight loss.

Don't bring shitty food into the house. If you don't buy it, you can't eat it.

Don't ever eat fast food unless you're on a road trip.

Brown bag your lunch. You'll save a small fortune and a zillion calories.

by Anonymousreply 10411/11/2012

I don't think the stomach ever shrinks on its own. I don't think skin does either. So if you don't do the surgery, you'll always be hungry...but your mind may make you hungry anyway (see Huckabee). For the skin, if you see any sagging, focus your exercises on that area. I know most people who can get weight loss surgery through insurance do not also have the option of cosmetic surgery to fix the results.

by Anonymousreply 10511/11/2012

Oh and resign yourself to looking older. Weight loss does that to people. It can even make the hair turn white (less excess protein).

by Anonymousreply 10611/11/2012

Had lap band. Lost a little. Gained it back. Yes, it's about the underlying mental issues. The thing someone mentioned upthread about flour and sugar being triggers for food addiction sounds exactly right. I went on the South Beach Diet once and lost a ton in the first two weeks but once I let the carbs slip back, it was all down hill from there. Robert Downey Jr. once said in an interview that a lot of addicts are also addicted to sugar, and as a recovering addict, this totally has a ring of truth in it. I know that once I have carbs, all I want to do is eat and eat and eat. But when I was on the SB Diet, I didn't have cravings. There is no magic bullet. I knew that probably deep down before I had the surgery, but I just wanted to believe there was one. It was like Dumbo's magic feather or something, a fetish object I could put all my hopes and dreams into. There is no quick trick, only hard work.

by Anonymousreply 10711/11/2012

There are three women where I work who have had weight loss surgery. I don't know what kind they had - bypass, banding, or whatever. I just know they had one of those type of surgeries because they've talked about it. I never paid much attention to the details; it's just not that interesting to me.

One lost weight, but only to a point. Two years after her surgery, she's maybe 75 lbs overweight instead of 150 lbs over. She looks better, for certain, and doesn't seem to have suffered any rapid aging or skin sagging. She definitely seems happier.

Another lost weight, got to within about 50 lbs of her goal, then started putting weight back on. She's nearly as heavy now as she was before she went for the surgery. She's obsessed with food and coupons.

Another lost a lot of weight - like all of the excess weight - but she aged about 40 years. She looks old and haggard. She also seems incredibly depressed and unhappy all of the time.

by Anonymousreply 10811/11/2012

Will insurance really approve a lap band if you are only 200 pounds? Or are people paying for it themselves? My friend has lost seventy pounds since Jan. 1 and she was about 200. She does low carb, low cal. She didn't exercise and I think she looks terrible--ten years older, no muscle tone, skinny arms and legs and saggy skin all over especially in the stomach area. She was so much cuter heavy. Shes 32 btw. It worries me because I'm trying to lose sixty and I do exercise but if my skin is going to hang and my face looks haggard I would prefer to be chubby.

by Anonymousreply 10911/11/2012

My neighbor had the lap band. Lost about 50 initially. Gained it back and more. Fatter than ever. Plus there are lots of things she can never eat like pasta. But she drinks a lot of soda.

Not worth it.

by Anonymousreply 11011/11/2012

The thing is, people who keep eating after the surgery, may lose initially but they just put it back on. Plus, they've increased their health risks through the surgery.

You would be better off doing it your own way. You develop all the same skills you'll need to keep it off even if you had the band and you're health will be better.

by Anonymousreply 11111/11/2012

You have to exercise. Losing 60 pounds is doable without looking haggard. Hell, there are numerous women who lose that much weight after giving birth and don't look bad.

Focus on getting healthy is what I always say. I lost tons of weight with EXERCISE and healthy eating. Weight training was a life saver.

by Anonymousreply 11211/11/2012

Uh, lap bandee here, r 110, soda rots the band away. Not a good idea. It can literally erode right into your stomach and you need like emergency surgery to fix that shit. She's stupid.

by Anonymousreply 11311/11/2012

Holy jesus so Datalounge really is the official home of fat girls!

by Anonymousreply 11411/11/2012

OP how are you doing? You sound like one of the lucky few who can do it without surgery. It just takes time.

I think the root cause of the problem is how cheap food is. Our grandparents did not have 99 cent value menus. You have to get out of the habit of eating crap just because it's available, and it seems like a good deal. It's not such a good deal when you get to the point where you want your stomach reduced to a tiny pouch just so you can stop the madness.

by Anonymousreply 11511/11/2012

Have some sympathy for the OP.

I too am overweight and can't lose it.

I've done everything but eat less and exercise more and yet the weight still won't come off.

by Anonymousreply 11611/12/2012

I had gastric bypass 5 years ago. I didn't suffer any complications at all but am stick in a rut. Nobody told me that alcohol will stop ur weight loss. Trust me it does. I lost about 80 lbs (stopped due to alcohol) now I have extra skin. Ins will not pay foe cosmetic surgery. Dr thinks its just cosmetic. I feel more confident with clothes on but undressed I feel horrible.

by Anonymousreply 11704/25/2013

I have had the weight loss surgery and anyone who has not had it or thinking about having it should research it. I feel a d look better, aside from sagging skin, I'm doing good. I am luckier than others I know who have had it though. I don't know their circumstances so I won't discuss them. I on the other hand have gained back some weight but not due to the surgery. People should realize that their stomach is a muscle and their muscle is controlled by their brain. If u don't have the me yal brainpower u will not lose weight long term.

by Anonymousreply 11804/25/2013

As I've said here on the Datalounge multiple times --- it's the gut bacteria stupid!

[bold]Gut Bacteria May Be Key to Gastric Bypass' Effects: Study Transferring altered microbes into mouse bellies led to weight loss even without surgery[/bold]

by Anonymousreply 11904/25/2013

[bold]Datalounge: Obesity linked to gut bacteria[/bold]

by Anonymousreply 12004/25/2013

Fecal bacteriotherapy. The weight loss surgery of the future!

by Anonymousreply 12104/25/2013
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