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Surprise! Being nice gets you nowhere

I've heard this for years, but always thought if you were a "good person", people would want you on their side, help you out, and value you. Not buying into that anymore, at least not from a professional standpoint. Over the past four years, I have seen countless examples of ruthless, manipulative, calculating people getting ahead by lying, being two-faced, stealing work, or simply kissing the right people's asses. It's not in my nature to be cut-throat, so I'd rather have a comfortable life and personally rewarding career than go for the top of that professional mountain. I would get a blog, but it's much simpler to just write this paragraph.

by Anonymousreply 102March 10, 2014 1:58 PM

You can be nice and still fight to get ahead. There's nothing mean or unfair to point out your competition's flaws and isecurity and put a spotlight on them at the right moment.

by Anonymousreply 1September 21, 2011 8:56 PM

sorry: and insecurity

by Anonymousreply 2September 21, 2011 8:59 PM

Welcome to the "world of work," OP.

by Anonymousreply 3September 21, 2011 9:00 PM


by Anonymousreply 4September 21, 2011 9:02 PM

R1 wouldn't know nice if it fucked him in the ass.

OP, my aren't you the native little thing. My problem is I have known all along how beastly people can be (85% said it was okay to lie to keep your job in a 1990 survey and 95% said they would lie to keep their job, regardless of whether it was right or wrong), but it still always comes as a surprise. Hold on to naivete as long as you can because once you start down that road, you become just like them.

by Anonymousreply 5September 21, 2011 9:09 PM

It's becoming more true daily, as sociopathic ideas take a big hold in the culture. Hint: quit voting sociopaths into public office and admiring them on reality TV shows. Don't hire them in TV news rooms. Want to be a responsible corporation? Ban them from the board room.

Support and love the humanity in your friends and family. WIN!!

by Anonymousreply 6September 21, 2011 9:14 PM

What I still can't believe is the sheer stealing of ideas that are claimed as one's own. That and the sociopathic behavior that is explained away as "Yeah, but he is so smart and knows what he's doing." So the lesson is as long as you are considered smart, you can be the biggest asshole of all and get away with it. Oddly, the people who point out the inappropriate behavior are viewed negatively.

by Anonymousreply 7September 21, 2011 9:21 PM

I LEARNED EARLY! Life goes by too DAMNED fast, YOU'VE got to KNOW how to COMPETE and....WIN!!!!

Just Say'in. lol.

by Anonymousreply 8September 21, 2011 9:23 PM

It is not quite like that OP. If you are always in war mode, you waste too much time and create too many problems. If you assume everyone is an a-hole then you actually attract more of the a-holes because you push the good ones away.

You have to carefully cherry pick the people around you, knowing that the majority of people are not good picks. If you can't sniff out the good ones are, you will have more problems in life.

"Everyone is basically a good person deep down inside" is a fallacy, but that does not mean good ones don't exist.

Fight with people all your life or become a cherry picker.

by Anonymousreply 9September 21, 2011 9:33 PM

Many companies don't like individuals who disrupt the company 'culture'. That means bullshitters, or sociopath types often get weeded out.

My friend hires a lot of people and he avoids anyone which may upset the apple cart (no matter how qualified or talented they are).

by Anonymousreply 10September 21, 2011 9:50 PM

"What keeps mankind alive? The fact that millions are daily tortured Stifled, punished, silenced and oppressed Mankind can keep alive thanks to its brilliance In keeping its humanity repressed

You have to kill your neighbor to survive It's selfishness that keeps mankind alive"

Brecht knew when he wrote these words in 1928 that being nice gets you nowhere.

by Anonymousreply 11September 21, 2011 9:52 PM

R10, sociopaths are rarely ever rooted out. For one thing, they are hard to spot unless you are below them.

by Anonymousreply 12September 21, 2011 10:28 PM

I agree. If your a virtuous, benevolent, and honesty person with integrity it gets you nowhere. I am one of the long term unemployed and if people could see my virtuous side then I would have been employed a long time ago. As you age, you realize no good deed goes unpunished. I know this is a cynical view but I feel like it is so true.

by Anonymousreply 13March 3, 2014 2:51 PM

What's with all the negativity?

Everywhere you work seek out even a small group of "good people." Support and defend each other. You don't need to "rock the boat"; but you do need to stick to core ethical principals and each be willing to leave the ship if its integrity becomes unsalvageable.

Sure, cream and bastards rise - but there are almost always enough others who resent their tactics so as to ensure they eventually get homogenized.

by Anonymousreply 14March 3, 2014 3:10 PM

I totally get it OP. Not just at work but in life in general. I've always been one of those people who will go out of their way to help friends, family and even strangers. Then I found myself in a position where I really needed help, I was desperate for help and needed it like I have never needed help before in my life. No one lifted a finger to help me - not friends, not family no one. I was really shocked and hurt. I decided then that if I was going to get out of my situation it was down to me. I was feeling pretty low cos of my situation and lack of help made it worse. I did pull myself out of it. Now I will never do a thing for anybody.

by Anonymousreply 15March 3, 2014 3:17 PM

My experience is different from yours, OP.

My company let go 400 team members in the last two years.

Most of the team I used to sit with got canned.

I still have a job solely because of my attitude. They could have easily let me go.

Stay positive...and helpful. And kind...to everyone at all times.

by Anonymousreply 16March 3, 2014 3:28 PM

If you're truly a good person, you wouldn't let the actions of other people change who you are. The point of being good shouldn't be to get something. I just went through a mass betrayal by family and some friends. And yet, it hasn't changed me or my outlook on life. I will always do things for other people. I will continue to be nice to people. I will continue to do good things for those who betrayed me. Because my life is not about them, or what they do. My life is about the choices I make. And I make the choice to always be myself...a kind and generous person. I understand the hurt some of you are feeling. But changing yourselves because of them only hurts you in the end. Not only are they "winning" in life, but now they have won in your life. Changed you so you reflect their behaviors. I believe you get so much more out of life when you approach it with a kind and generous heart.

by Anonymousreply 17March 3, 2014 3:57 PM

For R11:

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 18March 3, 2014 4:00 PM

Eh. We all grow old and die in the end... I've stayed true to the principle of kindness in my career, and am doing very well. Not wealthy but solidly comfortable. I'm that "nice gay middle manager boss" that people like. My department has the least turnover of the whole org. In fact the one person who left, he came back to me six months later.

I don't have what it takes to be a cut-throat power-seeker, and don't want what it takes. But there are ways to figure out how to be valued and recognized, and how to be successful, without sacrificing basic standards of treating other humans decently.

It also varies a lot from profession to profession. I work in a non-profit setting.

by Anonymousreply 19March 3, 2014 4:05 PM

OP, you were actually right, being nice does get you ahead, but...

you have to appreciate how slow turn the wheels of karma and the corporate world. You're not the only person who's angered by sociopaths, but I can guarantee you that the people who will can them in the future already have their plans in motion.

by Anonymousreply 20March 3, 2014 4:09 PM

I recently heard the guy who prematurely ended my 20-year corporate career with a layoff when I was age 53 took medical leave for Crohn's Disease.

I would LIKE to tell you I feel sorry for him ....

by Anonymousreply 21March 3, 2014 4:15 PM

Successful people are unhappy, and happy people are unsuccessful. Or something like that...

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 22March 3, 2014 4:19 PM

seriously, R17? you continue to be nice to people who betrayed you? are you a doormat? what kind of message does that send to the other person who betrayed you? that they can do it over and over again, no problem? they're probably laughing at your dumb ass.

by Anonymousreply 23March 3, 2014 4:27 PM

There's a difference between being "nice" vs. being a doormat, or naive, or a chump. There's also a difference between being firm, being smart and not letting people take advantage of you vs. being a sociopath.

I've met and worked for people whom I would consider nice and genuine, but they were not fools. They were competent, they fought to make sure their accomplishments were recognized when appropriate, and they showed appreciation for others when it was due, but they did not engage in petty behaviors like kissing ass or stealing credit for other people's work.

Of course, a lot depends on your work environment and the tone set at the top - I've worked at both great and miserable places. Some of the latter were so toxic and poorly managed that advancement and recognition were a chore, and you saw a lot of talented people eventually head for the exits.

But in general I think it's perfectly possible to be good at what you do and to know enough of how "the game" is played to avoid being taken advantage of, while still keeping your principles and treating others decently. And you want to avoid becoming bitter and negative - the only people who worry me more than "brown-nosers" and liars in the office are the resentful ones who think that life and everyone else has screwed them over and that they haven't been paid their due. Those are usually the ones that snap.

by Anonymousreply 24March 3, 2014 4:28 PM

"What Keeps Mankind Alive":

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 25March 3, 2014 5:13 PM

Fuck em before they fuck you

by Anonymousreply 26March 3, 2014 5:47 PM

I believe that nice people who do good things to others and live according to some moral code have a peace of mind that shields them from the bad things. It could be purely physical and chemical reaction that makes them feel happy all the time.

I'd like to be one of those happy people but I'm not. Too many fears make me unhappy and bitchy. I try not to hurt others, though, but I know I do hurt them, and I feel bad because of it.

by Anonymousreply 27March 3, 2014 6:11 PM

Being nice is different from being good, I think. And, you can be good and very angry and bitter over being used and abused by sociopaths. I'm bitter as hell, and I rant and rave but I consider myself very good. Sure, I was callous sometimes and did regrettable things, but I am devoted to not hurting any innocent soul and to doing anything for someone who might need me.Get a blog, OP. you sound interesting.

by Anonymousreply 28March 4, 2014 4:12 PM

Yes, some people lose their souls in order to have success.

Ever read "Thick Face, Black Heart"?

It is written by a Chinese , Chin-Ning Chu, and in it she reveals the mindset of the Asian business model. It's pretty interesting. It shows how Asians rationalize cold-hearted behavior and unflattering business protocols.

However, I recommend you read it, OP and others. Because the people who bug you have probably read it, and are utilizing its principles, although incorrectly I promise you.

The other book that assholes love to glom on to is "The Art of War." Every single asshole boss has read this, thinks they are the only ones who have read it, and believe they have some mysterious 'power' over other people.

Ayn Rand seems like Santa Claus compared to what is contained in these books.

I'll say this though,, "Thick Face, Black Heart" has some positive aspects to it and if anything. you will spot the techniques that your oppressors are using and understand that it is all a game.

by Anonymousreply 29March 4, 2014 4:33 PM

From Chin-Ning Chu's "Thick Face, Black Heart,":

"One of the results of reading this book will be the shattering of your traditional concepts of ruthlessness. You will learn that by adapting and adopting a form of nondestructive ruthlessness, you will gain the freedom necessary to achieve effective execution of your life's tasks."

So "Thick Face.." is not about adopting or adapting to sociopathy. I find that the author does ask the reader to employ joy, compassion, and levity as well as self-confidence and ambition.

by Anonymousreply 30March 4, 2014 4:45 PM

In my experience the VAST majority of people who explain their lack of success with "I am just too nice" are hiding a multitude of sins behind that noble exterior.

Are you really nice or just timid?

Are you really nice or are you just too lazy to put yourself out there and back it up.

Are you really nice or are you a backbiting coward

If you have character, nice is something you do because of the virtue itself, not because you will be rewarded.

Results are what matter and there is no reason you can't be nc

by Anonymousreply 31March 4, 2014 4:49 PM

[quote]bullshitters, or sociopath types often get weeded out

No, these are the ones they keep. Weak managers love them or fear them - and keep and promote them all. They are afraid of intelligent, capable, honest people.

The work environment has deteriorated - sociopaths rule. It is becoming more of the norm in society.

Save your nice/good self for the people that you meet in your life that are also good and appreciate it.

by Anonymousreply 32March 4, 2014 4:58 PM

But again, they've all read the "Art of War," and think that no one else has. They can be figured out and played with. Their arrogance will be their downfall.

by Anonymousreply 33March 4, 2014 5:02 PM

America, right now, rewards extroverts.

This has changed everything. It is a different country now.

Nothing wrong with extroverts who are thoughtful and smart. But the dumb ones are not winnowed out, and stay in favor.

Eventually, introversion will come back in style. Introverts will no longer have to 'sell themselves' in every social encounter. Lying will not be in order.

It will happen (as America become more Asian) and that will benefit many who feel disempowered by today's culture.

by Anonymousreply 34March 4, 2014 5:07 PM

This whole thread is full of delusion and ridiculous expectations.

One behaves kindly and does good because it is an end in itself.

by Anonymousreply 35March 4, 2014 5:07 PM

Virtue is its own, and also its only reward.

by Anonymousreply 36March 4, 2014 5:27 PM

Being kind to others is the same as being kind to yourself. There is no difference between the two.

We think we know other people, but we do not. All we know of them is what we perceive of them, and our perception is limited and unstable.

It's impossible for us to know what is going on with other people...we don't know what's in their hearts, minds & souls. We are not qualified to judge others.

"Judgment" is a two-edged sword: judge someone else, and you will assume others are judging you. And your worldview will reflect that.

This will make you vulnerable...and what do vulnerable people do? They put up defenses.

Defensive people live in fear...they are not "safe." They have to constantly protect themselves...and be vigilant.

Being kind isn't about getting anything. It's about keeping something: your own peace of mind. Something we give away so easily.

This world sucks. It's a Buddhist principle that life is suffering. It's how Peck starts "The Road Less Traveled." Life is hard.

So what do you do?

Accept life on life's terms.

Do not look for happiness in physical circumstances. Happiness comes from within.

Happiness is a choice. Most people do not want to be happy...they want to be right. Or in charge.

People fight too much. There must be a better way...there is, actually. The opposite of being destructive is being constructive...and creative. The opposite of fear is love.

We have to reverse the thinking of the world. Otherwise we will self-destruct.

by Anonymousreply 37March 4, 2014 5:31 PM

Sorry R39, that's depression. Life is a fight, and it is no good to say otherwise.Nature cannot be reformed in its essence, which means that to live is to struggle. The way of the Buddhist is the way of the slave, nothing more.

by Anonymousreply 38March 4, 2014 5:49 PM

What a warped take on Buddhism, R41.

by Anonymousreply 39March 4, 2014 6:06 PM

I'm not Buddhist. I simply made a reference to Buddhism. The first of their four noble truths is that suffering exists.

Thank you for attacking Buddhism and proving my point that people prefer conflict over peace.

Namaste. :)

by Anonymousreply 40March 4, 2014 6:26 PM

R44, pay no heed to the dingbat who is attacking your religion. It's the same nut who is all over that Gone with the Wind thread. She (although she now says she is a gay Jewish male) is a white social justice warrior who is all over anything she doesn't approve of, and uses outdated and outmoded sixties language.

p.s. I like Buddists, they calm me.

by Anonymousreply 41March 4, 2014 6:31 PM

Wow, keep 'em coming. Some really get it.

by Anonymousreply 42March 4, 2014 6:40 PM

its not attachment to things you want to let go of. It attachment to the MEANING of things..

by Anonymousreply 43March 4, 2014 7:25 PM

R39, that is great insight and I got a lot out of it. Thank you for taking the time to post it.

by Anonymousreply 44March 4, 2014 8:12 PM

Democracy requires judgement.

by Anonymousreply 45March 4, 2014 10:40 PM

[quote]I've heard this for years, but always thought if you were a "good person", people would want you on their side, help you out, and value you.

In a work environment? You are either insane or stupid.

by Anonymousreply 46March 4, 2014 10:53 PM

I have two sisters. One is a psychopath and the other is a narcissist. There's NO way to be nice to them and we are always arguing as they still bring up issues from close to 40 years ago. I made the wise move to detox myself of them and get rid of them out of my life, about six months ago. I can now take a deep breath and there are no burdens left on my shoulders. I now sleep better. The key is to get rid of as many emotional predators, along with their baggage, as you can and be left in peace. Be nice to yourself first.

by Anonymousreply 47March 4, 2014 10:58 PM

Discernment, r49.

Yes, r47. This world is a dream...an illusion. It is temporary so it not real. Why attach to a dream? It will never satisfy.

The point is to wake up from the dream.

by Anonymousreply 48March 4, 2014 11:04 PM

R51, I totally feel you. I did the same thing. I got rid of toxic, negative people in my life and most of them are my own family.

My life is so much better now.

by Anonymousreply 49March 4, 2014 11:14 PM

I'm with R51 & R53 -- I got rid of all the negative, toxic, controlling, and manipulative people in my life about 13 years ago. And I have never been happier.

You know how I did it? I stopped going to AA meetings and hanging out with AA people.

And I still haven't had a drink or a drug since 1981.

But I'm sure they have mourned my "going back out" for as long as they haven't seen me -- because since I stopped going to meetings many years ago, I must be in jail, an institution, or dead.

by Anonymousreply 50March 4, 2014 11:37 PM

Yes, definitely get rid of toxic people.

54, did you get sober in AA?

by Anonymousreply 51March 5, 2014 1:40 AM

I'm not an alcoholic, yet have nothing against AA.

It's not a cult. Scientology is. See, AA does not have a leader who receives money from participants. It's my understanding that group meetings are peer-lead, and the recommended donation of $1 can be waived if one does not have it or want to pay it. It's really to cover the costs of renting the meeting room, purchasing coffee, chips, keeping the lights on, etc.

I have studied the 12 steps, however, and in my view they are universally applicable. I quite like the Serenity Prayer, and the Desiderata...night are from AA members, but are popular amongst them. Also, the steps themselves are very helpful if you want to cultivate more serenity in your life.

I'm glad you no longer have a drinking problem, r54. However, your post is critical of the program that helped you stop drinking. You are discouraging people who may be drinking the way you were when you first found AA.

I know plenty of former AAers...people who used it to get sober, but then found it wanting and left. This does not mean that they resumed drinking...none of them have, and I don't think ever will. But those people do not discourage others from finding or using the program.

by Anonymousreply 52March 5, 2014 1:42 PM

[quote]night are from AA members

supposed to be

[bold]neither[/bold] are from AA members

I mean to say that neither the Serenity Prayer nor the Desiderata were produced by AA.

by Anonymousreply 53March 5, 2014 1:47 PM

Sanctimonious fucks like you are exactly the people I was talking about getting away from, R56. I guess you can't just "live and let live"...?

By the way, just because the cult's leaders are dead and they don't coerce you to give them $$ doesn't mean it's not a cult.

by Anonymousreply 54March 6, 2014 3:06 AM

You are not made for this world, OP. Neither am I.

Find people who share your values, understand what it is in life you love most, give up the corrupt notions of success pushed by sociopaths and their dupes, then make only those compromises necessary to keep the wolf from your door.

You think the subject of your post is the world. The real subject is you.

by Anonymousreply 55March 6, 2014 3:17 AM

Playing the game (kissing the boss' butt; making conversation with him/her; always trying to impress) gets you ahead. Probably why I'm not popular with mine at work.

by Anonymousreply 56March 6, 2014 3:26 AM

I am a nice person. My former manager was a controlling, demeaning asshole. He would screw over anyone to glorify himself. I learned to play his game. Smiling, professional, polite to his face, with a head full of derision and scorn. I was excellent at my job, he learned to trust me (after years of mistrust), and I was free to come and go as I pleased.

He liked to intimidate people. I had a weekly meeting with him, just the two of us. As with everyone else, he wouldn't say a word when you came in, just stared at you until you spoke. Until the day I just stared silently back. We had a stare off for some time before he started laughing, as did I. It was just another one of his power trips. Like any bully, he respected those who stood up to him. It was so exhausting.

by Anonymousreply 57March 6, 2014 3:38 AM

what r12 and r15 said.

by Anonymousreply 58March 6, 2014 3:49 AM

Do you accurately explain that phenomenon? Are cutthroat people the only ones who get promoted?

Or is just Halo Effect or Devil Effect?

Rationalization isn't going to give you the means for professional achievement.

by Anonymousreply 59March 6, 2014 3:54 AM

In all of life, not just work but in this world evil is rewarded and good punished for the most part. Look at those who've been given the most in life. They are for the most part not just bad people but again, truly evil. Look at those who have the worst lives on earth. What bad have they done? Who have they hurt walked over or stolen from or lied about, chances are no one ever in their pitiful lives.

Look at spoiled rich brats and children who don't even have water to drink. You think the staving ones ever have a tantrum?

Sayings like "No good deed goes unpunished" didn't become sayings because their is non truth to them.

My amazing late father was proof of this to me. He was the kindest, most filled with love (for people and animals as well), generous to friends, family and strangers. He cared about and gave to the poor. He brought home strays, cats and dogs, he nursed hurt birds and he worked two full time jobs for 30 years.

In the end he had nothing to show for it. What he worked so hard all his life to save went to medical bills and he died in debt. I am disabled and live on disability so I couldn't help him and he could not afford a home attendant so as bad shape as I was in I had to be his nurse and try to bathe him and such.

Of course I did a horrible job because of my own physical disabilities. It was frightening and humiliating experience for both of us. That's what he got for living a life of one of the best people that ever existed.

I hope against common sense that there is some kind of afterlife. My dad deserves better than what he got and all those that get away with so much evil on earth that they never pay for deserve to pay for it for eternity.

by Anonymousreply 60March 6, 2014 4:07 AM

gawd you queeny bitches will do anything to not have to be nice

by Anonymousreply 61March 6, 2014 4:15 AM

R64, There is an afterlife and your Dad is in luck because you take your consciousness with you.

A loving heart gets a loving, beautiful afterlife.

*trust me, I know this.

by Anonymousreply 62March 6, 2014 4:22 AM

R59 doesn't get it. That was an option in 1973. Today the wolf is at the door unless you're a prick. Period.

by Anonymousreply 63March 6, 2014 4:23 AM

r64, may it be of comfort to know that karma really does exist. Your father and your good deed of helping him when no one else could or did is not noticed by higher powers.

I am educated and clear headed. I have seen countless examples of selfish people getting shocking examples of karmic payback in this life. Ones that have or had everything get something untoward or unexpected happen to them specific to the hostility they caused.

Example: So called (homophobic) "friend" years ago telling me of calling an airport worker a "fag" due to her own anger at not getting her way. And reconting the story to me some time later (and knowing I was gay).

Years later, who's child turned out to be gay?

Everything which happens on this earth is not the end of justice.

by Anonymousreply 64March 6, 2014 4:25 AM

R66 and R68, your words are comforting. I want that so much for my father. I know many people think their dad is the best but my father really was. I'm bitter. He never was. He never lost faith and believed God was a good kind god when he had so much proof to the opposite. When he was in the worst pain he would still smile the most beautiful smile and never lost his humor. Every part of his body including his beautiful eyes faded so he could no longer enjoy his favorite thing in the world, his computer but his mind and his goodness never faded. I want my dad to be someplace so good and for him to be so happy so much.

Thank you again, both of you, for your comforting words.

by Anonymousreply 65March 6, 2014 4:49 AM

You're very welcome darling.

by Anonymousreply 66March 6, 2014 4:54 AM

r64, You said above, "He never lost faith and believed God was a good kind god when he had so much proof to the opposite."

Your definition is not only about your own Dad, but describes Jesus. Your father was spirtually above many here on earth now and when he was here.

God Bless.

by Anonymousreply 67March 6, 2014 4:57 AM

r59 is correct. In truth, none of us is of this world.

This world is not God's world.

God is love...and this world is not.

This is the world of death...and fear, anger, guilt, conflict, etc. The opposite of love...the opposite of God.

But this world is not true. It will not last forever, and each of us knows that one day our ego personality will be obliterated. The planet will one day not exist. The sun will one day run out of hydrogen.

We all have an ontological fear of death. And this fear drives our psychology...the way we think.

We each have free will. We are free to choose how we think about something. We are free to respond to anyone and anything as we choose.

And here is our choice: are you ego, or are you spirit?

Identify as an ego, and you will suffer and die.

Identify as spirit, and you have no past, no guilt, and no fear of the future. You have only the present, which is eternal.

You do not belong in this world. You feel like an alien here because you are. This world is not your home.

We are like caterpillars crawling in the dirt not realizing that one day we will soar freely above the earth as butterflies. Before doing so, we cocoon. We are in darkness, isolated, and not knowing what will happen to us. This is where we develop the courage to break free into the unknown, leaving our past identity literally in the dust. This is where we practice & develop strength.

by Anonymousreply 68March 6, 2014 1:33 PM


by Anonymousreply 69March 8, 2014 1:56 AM

I was always overly nice, but found out when a dispute with so called friends was an issue, they would gladly stab me in the back. Being a bitch is much more enjoyable..people keep their distance.

by Anonymousreply 70March 8, 2014 2:07 AM

I once was the assistant for a very powerful woman in entertainment. I was stupid, I was young, I was VERY inexperienced and after I screwed up a few times (I was 22 replacing a 35 year old who had been there for 15 years) she YELLED at me longer and harder than I have ever been yelled at before.

She said, "You have so much potential but you will NEVER get anywhere in this world by being nice. You need to decide right now what you want in life and if it's to work here then you need to toughen up right now." She said, "You are my right hand man. You are my stud. Do you know what a stud is? I send you out to all the other chicks and you do your job. Then when you're done you come back until I tell you to go out there again."

I went home that night and asked my roommate what he thought. He agreed saying he'd gotten to know me well over the past few months and that maybe she was right, I wasn't cut out for that business or network.

So over the next few weeks I became the biggest bitch that ever walked the Earth until half way through yelling at some employee on her behalf I realized that wasn't me.

So 8 years later I am working doing the job of my dreams and I am the boss because I freelance. I get a lot of work, actually. My old boss on the other hand was let go from that network a few years later. She jumped to another big organization and now works at a smaller one.

So being nice got me where I wanted in life but not right away. I used to think back and feel like I could have been hot shit had I stayed but these days I look back and I'm happy I made the choices that I did.

by Anonymousreply 71March 8, 2014 2:16 AM

I'm going through this at work - I make good money and am pretty happy, but I have been passed over for a promotion several times because it isn't the right time. I receive "exceeds expectations" or "above average" evaluations for several years.

Meanwhile a co-worker has received 4 promotions in 5 years while taking 3 maternity leaves. She's pretty good, but not that good. A couple of promotions were due to people leaving the company.

She steals ideas and is a total bitch to everyone outside of the executive level. And she got another promotion just last week - do I tell my C-level boss? How do I do that without looking like a jealous asshole?

by Anonymousreply 72March 8, 2014 2:28 AM

R75, you are one of the VERY FEW people who can say that. In the majority of instances, people have to be evil if they want to get ahead. Such is the nature of the world of human beings: only the wicked, rather than the strongest, survive.

by Anonymousreply 73March 8, 2014 2:32 AM

R75 - you were 22 for christ's sake. You have to toughen up at 22 and work in an adult world when you're just out of being a child.

When you're in your 20's it's difficult to see yourself as a peer to those who are older because you aren't and it's tough.

If being a bitch on her behalf worked, then fine - but it's part of growing up. That's not really a story in and of itself.

by Anonymousreply 74March 8, 2014 2:38 AM

I am aware my boss does not like me. I am friendly, cordial and mind my own business. He has his favorites in the office that kiss his behind, he attempted to give me a less than favorable performance review, but got no where much to his dismay..the CEO would not agree. My ignorant boss is not aware I had an affair with my CEO and yes, we are both males.

by Anonymousreply 75March 8, 2014 2:43 AM

At my previous job, a coworker asked me to brief him before a meeting on the technology with which we were working. When the meeting started, he jumped in and repeated everything I had just told him, as if it was his idea. I was so shocked, I was nonplussed. (I've been waiting to use that word somewhere). He had saved my ass once and recently, so I let it pass. There were a lot of assholes like that at that job. Thank God I left there!

by Anonymousreply 76March 8, 2014 2:47 AM

If karma does exist it would be nice for it to figure out how to come back around a lot faster.

At this point in my life I can't figure out why anyone would fear death. This world is so horrible and life is so painful, not just for me but for so many who don't deserve it. I try to be a good person and do the right thing, but if all there is ever going to be is suffering here on earth I can't wait to die.

If there is a God listening I volunteer and beg for him to kill me all the time. I can't logically see life ever improving enough to make up for all the despair. I just want it to be over.

by Anonymousreply 77March 8, 2014 3:05 AM

r79, what a cool post! In my life I have been f'd over in an unfair review. Glad you had a trump card to play.

The last person who gave me an unfair (and cruel) review was dumped shortly later.

Guess who's shoulder they cried on on their way out the door? BTW, shortly after I got a big raise that more than made up for the one I was f'd out of.

by Anonymousreply 78March 8, 2014 4:05 AM

R77, I can't disagree with you there and almost a decade later I'm certainly no angel but I am no where near at her level. She wasn't unjustly disliked by the people there which is why she was let go a few years later and replaced by one of the nicest people (within reason) that worked there. He actually offered me a job a few months after I left as his assistant but I just wanted to stay doing my artsy shit.

R78, You're right, in a way. I like your insight. A friend told me I wasn't "ready" then for what I had to do (when we discussed it years later) and I got the job as a fluke anyway. These days I'm fairly the same as I as then on the surface but if I sense someone is taking advantage or being dishonest I flip the bitch switch which I learned from that and many other experiences.

My point is that "nice" is an amorphous term and what's nice to one person can seem like being a push over to another. I only do the work I do now because I was "nice" to someone who guest spoke in a workshop I took 5 years ago. I just thought she was cool to hang out with.

In any case, I think everyone has their boundaries to what they will and won't do. I guess living life, choosing who you surround yourself with carefully and the environment you live and work in helps you set that.

by Anonymousreply 79March 8, 2014 5:04 PM

[quote]Do you know what a stud is? I send you out to all the other chicks and you do your job. Then when you're done you come back until I tell you to go out there again."

That's the stupidest definition of a stud, ever.

by Anonymousreply 80March 8, 2014 5:35 PM

Generally, people who announce, "I'm just too nice" are just too boring, and not quite smart enough.

by Anonymousreply 81March 8, 2014 6:31 PM

Being nice *is* the way to go, as long as you don't expe ct others to follow suit. You avoid a lot of hassles that come with being a jerk that way.

by Anonymousreply 82March 8, 2014 7:17 PM

The main problem with being nice is that others are afraid of the bad people turning against them so they stand down in the face of injustice.

As a species, we practice slavery and a host of other horrible things. Deception and cunning were (and still are) survival traits.

by Anonymousreply 83March 8, 2014 7:18 PM

Be nice to others, but don't be naive as such that people will treat you like a doormat.

by Anonymousreply 84March 8, 2014 7:57 PM

[quote]If there is a God listening I volunteer and beg for him to kill me all the time.

That would make God evil, something He is not.

[quote]At this point in my life I can't figure out why anyone would fear death.

We fear the obliteration of our personalities...our individuality. And our privacy...the private world we each rule alone. Our own personal kingdom. We fear joining with others. We actually fear love more than anything.

But in truth, we do not die...our bodies do, but we are not our bodies. And the ego personality we thought we were was just a...concept. An illusion...based on fear. All our grudges and guilt vanish without the ego. They're just smoke and mirrors. They do not exist because time does not exist, and all suffering is based on the past. You're the only one keeping your history alive. And when you go, so do all your "problems."

The irony is that we hate life as much as we hate death. That is why we seek to escape from life via a myriad of distractions from drugs to gaming to hookups and so forth.

If people really wanted to be happy, then they would regularly practice forgiveness in their daily lives. Forgive the guy who cut you off. Forgive the co-worker who made a rude comment. Forgive life for being hard.

It's all temporary anyway. Is this how you want to go through life? Suffering?

Just let it go.

Whatever you focus on expands. Seek where you want to go, not what you want to avoid.

by Anonymousreply 85March 9, 2014 4:57 PM

R89 I feel it's a little more evil of God to not intervene when there is so much suffering in the world if he has this almighty power to do so.

It seems forcing us to continue through all the despair rather than helping us or at least giving us the resources to fix our problems ourselves rules out the possibility of him being merciful.

I think maybe God enjoys watching our suffering for his entertainment and listening to us grovel and beg to sustain his ego. Why not go after the people who actually cause others pain and protect those of us trying to be good and do the right things? Not very much incentive to be a good person.

God doesn't seem to understand how bad it is down here or he would clean things up a bit. Too bad he never took a turn incarnating. He just sent his son and all of us to do it, so he doesn't have the empathy that the position of being the creator of the universe should require.

If I focus on the positive, the only positive is that I'm still alive, and that means the only positive is a negative because death would finally end all the suffering. I don't want my ego or individuality anymore. I just want it all to be over.

by Anonymousreply 86March 9, 2014 10:25 PM

I agree, I am a nice person, at work, i treat everyone fairly and I don't harbor ill will or want them to fail.

I am great at my job, outperform others but there will always be jealous fucks out there who will try to bring me down. I fucking hate them. I do nothing to harm them but they plot my demise so they can get ahead, or they're unhappy with their shit lives and just don't like to see another person do well.

some people I know are happy for your success on to a certain extent, as long as you're not more successful than them, then they put you down, say shit behind your back. losers really.

by Anonymousreply 87March 9, 2014 10:39 PM

R90, the suffering in this world is man-made. There is enough food on this planet to feed everyone. God didn't start any of our wars. We have free will, and apparently we prefer to arm the military, and so forth, than feed people. That's our fault, not God's. God didn't fly that plane into the ocean. He didn't build homes in the paths of tornados. He didn't cause any trains to derail or car crashes. He didn't invent guns. He didn't even invent borders between nations.

[quote]I think maybe God enjoys watching our suffering for his entertainment and listening to us grovel and beg to sustain his ego.

You have made God into your own image. God is not like you. He does not think in the same way at all.

What is an ego? Can an ego exist without a body? God does not have a body...therefore, he has no ego. You are projecting yours onto Him.

[quote]Why not go after the people who actually cause others pain and protect those of us trying to be good and do the right things? Not very much incentive to be a good person.

So you get to judge who deserves God's wrath and who does not? What are your qualifications? Are you all knowing?

We are punished by our transgressions, not for them. If your only motivation for being kind is to get something in return, then you're completely missing the point and will continue to suffer.

by Anonymousreply 88March 9, 2014 11:04 PM

This older coworker (female) said I was "nice" when I was helping her at work with something and I shuddered, knowing that being labeled "nice" was a bad trait to have in an office.

I'm only learning now (just turned 29) that you need to be kind of nasty/standoffish to succeed, but I really don't know how to do that. But people are starting to take advantage of me at my new job.

by Anonymousreply 89March 9, 2014 11:21 PM

R92 Well God created the men who created all of those things and chose not to stop them. So he either doesn't have the power and control he wants us to think he has or he simply does not care what happens to us. What other explanation is there?

I'm a good person because it's the right thing to do not because it brings any rewards obviously or I wouldn't be suicidal. I do everything I can just to survive and even surviving is rapidly losing its appeal. I did not crash the economy, the greed of others did. How is that my transgression? You clearly were not reading very carefully just looking for an excuse to cast judgment and make yourself feel undeservedly superior. I continue to be a good person despite the suffering. I have not killed myself because I am concerned how it will affect others.

People receive rewards for being ruthless so they continue doing them and think they must be good people because God is rewarding them.

Slave owners, Wall Street, CEOs, politicians these are the people I am talking about. People who prosper by destroying other peoples' lives. You don't have to be all-knowing to realize this behavior is wrong. You criticized me for saying the wrong people are rewarded. Are these people God chooses to reward the people you would reward also? That tells me a lot about your intelligence, maturity and life experience if you think all these people who receive happiness deserve it.

How do you know any of this you are claiming is all true? You don't. You state it as fact yet there is no proof. I was questioning why things are so awful if God is truly all-powerful, not claiming I know everything and speaking in absolutes. You are just repeating things you have heard to try to make yourself sound superior to other people who have it worse, cast judgment regarding things you have no knowledge of, and pretend you have such a wonderful life because you deserve it.

Horrible people have great lives and wonderful people have miserable ones. You don't seem to know very much about how the world actually works.

I hope none of the things that have happened to me happen to you because it doesn't sound like you'd be able to handle them.

by Anonymousreply 90March 9, 2014 11:45 PM

R94, what happened to you?

by Anonymousreply 91March 9, 2014 11:47 PM

What God creates is eternal. Man is not eternal. So God did not create man.

Man has free will. It would be cruel of God to protect us from the consequences of our own actions.

[quote]I did not crash the economy, the greed of others did. How is that my transgression?

I'm sorry if I made it sound like you crashed the economy. That was not my intent. But humanity did - the men in Wall Street, congress and corporate HQs did.

[quote]Slave owners, Wall Street, CEOs, politicians these are the people I am talking about.

How many slavr owners do you personally know? How are they being rewarded?

You really don't think CEOs suffer? They still die...they still get cancer...divorced...children die or become addicts...

You think driving fancy cars and jet setting around the world is Heaven? Would that bring you peace and happiness?

I'm not going to compare my pain and suffering with yours. It's not a competition. But I've been through a lot more than perhaps you may ever realize. And I'm not suicidal. In fact, I'm trying to help others.

by Anonymousreply 92March 10, 2014 12:08 AM

Human society is imperfect, but Nature is just one thing eating another. It is colder and more heartless than any human system.

by Anonymousreply 93March 10, 2014 12:13 AM

r64, we had very similar fathers. One of the great things about living a good life is the peace they have at the end. My dad (and it sounds like your dad, too) knew what was important. To this day (and he's been dead 20 years, people will come up to me, introduce themselves, and tell me something my dad did for them or their kids or someone they knew. It's remarkable really.

I try to be good, in part, as a way to honor him.

by Anonymousreply 94March 10, 2014 12:18 AM

R95 Born into poverty, abusive childhood, self-esteem/worth destroyed/never existed, developed drug addiction as a child to cope, toxic family disowned me when I got outed, which was a blessing to get away from them but left me homeless, several abusive relationships, unable to find work despite my qualifications so trapped in a relationship with a monster, not allowed to have friends or a phone or even leave the house, those are the main bullet points anyway. I never wanted to believe I was just a victim and have always worked to fix whatever came my way but there just is no way out this time. It's all beyond my control.

R96 I don't need millions of dollars or fancy cars. I don't care about any of that. I'd be grateful to have a car at all. A reward to me would be a job where I made enough to escape and survive and not be homeless again and independent and not a prisoner anymore. It would be nice to have a job I actually liked and pay off my debt and maybe a relationship with another good person who was nice to me, but even though I believe I deserve all of that I don't expect it.

You have a very skewed and ungrateful view of what a reward is if all you care about is money and cars. Cancer is a blessing if you get to die and end the suffering. If you get divorced well then the relationship must not have been very good then, right? At least they are straight and able to get married at all and they have the freedom to make those choices and somewhere to go other than the streets.

I hope you don't trivialize and judge the people you claim to be helping the way you have me. I doubt they find it helpful. Thinking positive doesn't pay the bills and praying for help to God doesn't work either as long as I have been trapped in this miserable world.

I'm glad things are going so well for you though. You obviously must deserve it.

by Anonymousreply 95March 10, 2014 12:38 AM

Kill em with kindness! At the end of the day when your head hits the pillow you'll know you did the right thing regardless. That to me is satisfaction. To hell with the rest.

by Anonymousreply 96March 10, 2014 12:45 AM

[quote]It would be nice to have a job I actually liked

The long term unemployed are jealous of you. At least you have a reason to get out of bed and go somewhere.

Not sure why you're attacking me. I didn't mean to offend you.

If you wish to remain in pain and suffering, so be it. If you wish to kill yourself, then pay no attention to me. I think you're just looking to be rescued, because you are the victim of this world.

But poor people love their children. They have joy in their lives despite their circumstances. This is as true in Kentucky as Somalia. Just because they're not rich CEOs like you referenced in a previous post does not mean that they are unhappy.

Lighten up. Do you live in squalor? Are you on DL in a dirty alley somewhere? Both of my parents (rip) were physically handicapped, yet they never had it as bad as you.

Look around you at this very moment. Is the world ending? Are you about to die in a plane crash at sea? Or do you basically have everything you need? I'm talking about right now.

by Anonymousreply 97March 10, 2014 12:55 AM

[quote]Born into poverty, abusive childhood, self-esteem/worth destroyed/never existed, developed drug addiction as a child to cope, toxic family disowned me when I got outed, which was a blessing to get away from them but left me homeless, several abusive relationships, unable to find work despite my qualifications so trapped in a relationship with a monster, not allowed to have friends or a phone or even leave the house, those are the main bullet points anyway. I never wanted to believe I was just a victim and have always worked to fix whatever came my way but there just is no way out this time. It's all beyond my control.

r99, I'm sorry that you've gone through all that. It appears that you are indeed trapped between a rock and hard spot.

What, if anything, are you doing to cope with your past abuse?

Have you sought outside help for your drug addiction?

Because you don't have to white knuckle sobriety. (Do you drink?) Help exists for you, and it doesn't have to be expensive. It does, however, depend on your own motivation.

You don't have to live this way.

You remind me of a prisoner condemend to life who doesn't realize that the door to his cell is actually unlocked. You just have to try it.

You can change your life, but only YOU can. Nobody else can make your life better for you. Even if a fairy godmother whooshed into your life to fix all your problems, everything would fall apart again after she stopped using her magic to continually help you.

The only thing you have to do is question everything you know. Think about it: if you want to change your life, you have to change the way you think first. You have to change your mind about the world.

Let go of all grievances you have. You have tons of them -- we all do. Try go one hour without any resentment at all. Forgive everyone and everything. The past is over, and all grievances are in the past.

Try it and see how it feels to live free of judgment and guilt.

by Anonymousreply 98March 10, 2014 1:58 PM
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