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Why did Robert Kennedy marry Ethel Skankel?

When he pretty much could have had any woman in the world?

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 22902/07/2012

Her family had power and prestige and more money than the Kennedys.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 108/30/2011

He liked the way she always dug for gold.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 308/30/2011

Pussy's pussy, and money's money. When the two cross, grab them.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 508/30/2011

They were more friends, acted like brother and sister between each other, than some hot couple.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 608/30/2011

Over-dress much, dear?

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 708/30/2011

It was [bold]Skakel[/bold],dear. And Mrs. Kennedy did not have cankles!

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 908/30/2011

Ax him.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 1008/30/2011

[quote]They were more friends, acted like brother and sister between each other,

Of the southern variety.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 1108/30/2011

Because she was high-production with low-upkeep.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 1208/30/2011

She had planned on becoming a nun before meeting Kennedy. I think there was a thread on DL a year or two ago where the possibility that she's a lesbian was discussed.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 1308/30/2011

"When he pretty much could have had any woman in the world?"%0D %0D Well, he couldn't have had "any woman in the world." He was a rich Kennedy but I imagine a lot of women would not have wanted to be part of that clan. %0D %0D "They were more friends, acted like brother and sister between each other, than some hot couple."%0D %0D Since they had ELEVEN children together he really must have liked fucking his sister. %0D %0D He and Ethel were very well-matched. She was boisterous and unprententious and energetic; just like the Kennedy sisters. She even looked like a Kennedy, what with her gingery coloring and big teeth. And of course she was an excellent breeder. They were perfect for each other. I think Ethel Kennedy would have made a very interesting First Lady, much more interesting than the ice queen Jackie. %0D %0D %0D %0D

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 1508/30/2011

"I think Ethel Kennedy would have made a very interesting First Lady, much more interesting than the ice queen Jackie."%0D %0D If any of the White House domestic staff that served Jack and Jackie is still alive, I'm sure they'd dispute your claim. EK was a major, imperious bitch on heels, especially to her household staff.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 1608/30/2011

Because she was so beautiful.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 1708/30/2011

For a bit of history and perspective: the Skakels gave the Kennedys class.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 1808/30/2011

He was very shy and insecure when he was young, and his first sexual experience must've been traumatizing. I think he took the first offer that came along because that's what he was expected to do.

Their personalities were not really well-matched at all. As r16 described, Ethel was a notorious bitch, snotty, arrogant, big-spender... basically every bad stereotype of the rich and powerful, Ethel fulfilled it. But Bobby was mostly quiet, pragmatic, polite, uncomfortable with the life he was born into. At one point, I believe, during his journey through the poverty situation in America, he confided to one of the people in the car with him that he would like to live in an apartment in Bed-Stuy.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 1908/30/2011

[quote]He and Ethel were very well-matched. She was boisterous and unprententious and energetic; just like the Kennedy sisters.%0D %0D One acquaintance allegedly described Ethel as "more Kennedy than thou."

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 2008/30/2011

I guess most high society women wouldn't want to become a brood mare and spit out 11 children.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 2108/30/2011

The Kennedy's were like old European aristocracy in that they married for money, lineage and position.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 2208/30/2011

There was some gossip or a rumor that Bobby had sex with Rudolf Nureyev in a telephone both. BTW, sorry but Bobby wasn't good looking at all. I think Jack got the looks in that family because the Kennedy's were one butt ugly family.

Ethel and Bobby's house was always notoriously filthy with children being unruly and running around the house. I think Ethel is white trash.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 2308/30/2011

She may well have been a bitch on wheels, I have no idea. But one of my friends worked as her gardener for a time and said she was wonderful, kind and funny.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 2408/30/2011

Joe Jr. was the pretty one, to the degree, of course, that any of them were pretty. He was the prettiest.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 2508/30/2011

Her family%E2%80%99s money, OP.

At that point in time the Skakel (not Skankel) family owned Great Lakes Carbon, an enormously wealthy and privately held corporation. The Greenwich mansion that the family lived in (off on Simmons Lane in the backcountry) was legendary.

Actually, Ethel was more readily accepted into the Kennedy clan than Jackie Kennedy. Echoing what another poster wrote here, Ethel was very similar in personality to Bobby%E2%80%99s sisters (e.g. athletic, and outgoing). Many people who knew Bobbie and Ethel did make the brother/sister analogy with respect to their marriage. And perhaps most telling is that, according to many, Ethel really did adore Bobby, and Bobby knew it.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 2608/30/2011

They were well matched in personality, even if they were very different. He was a thoughtful, unhappy young man, who felt overshadowed by his brothers, and having a cheerful, energetic, loving wife helped him open up and grow into himself. And he adored her, in a way a homely rich girl wouldn't necessarily expect from her husband.%0D %0D Yes, she could be a bitch on wheels, and was to her children. But not to him, by all accounts she was devoted to him.%0D %0D

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 2708/30/2011

Bobby wasn't the whore his brothers were...and he was probably faithful to Ethel for the first ten years of their marriage. Deal with it!

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 2808/30/2011

Perhaps she had a bucket fanny?

x

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 2908/30/2011

%0D If I remember right, Ethel was the college roomate of one of Bobby's sisters.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 3008/30/2011

Ethel has knobby-knees.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 3108/30/2011

ethel is a pro life anti gay repressed dyke

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 3208/30/2011

When outsiders are trying to out-WASP the WASPs they don't choose for "obvious" prettiness and sexiness. Look at JFK Jr., one of the most beautiful men on earth while he lived- you really think he couldn't have done better than Daryl Hannah and his unfortunate wife? Even Jackie, while fabulous and stylish, wasn't the common man's hottie. The only Kennedy who chose like a typical guy was Ted. Well, and Pat.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 3308/30/2011

They so look like Dina Merrill and Richard Burton in that shot.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 3408/30/2011

The elder Kennedy boys were groomed to be senators and governors and presidents; they couldn't just marry anyone. Their brides had to be (in order of importance):

(1) Catholic

(2) in high society and of good breeding

(3) willing to have at least three children

There were very few women who met those criteria.

Also, keep in mind Ethel was basically a Kennedy family groupie: after she started rooming with Jean at Manhattanville, she campaigned for JFK in his run for Congress and even wrote her senior thesis at Manhattanville on JFK's first book WHY ENGLAND SLEPT. The book itself was Kennedy's mediocre senior thesis at Harvard, and was only published because Joe Kennedy, eager to promote his sons, paid off Henry Luce to print it and write a foreword to it. Ethel must have had quite a time trying to turn it into her own senior thesis...

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 3508/30/2011

It's FRIENDSHIP FRIENDSHIP

Ethel Mertz would have been a better Ethel to have in the White House.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 3608/30/2011

[quote]She had planned on becoming a nun before meeting Kennedy. I think there was a thread on DL a year or two ago where the possibility that she's a lesbian was discussed.

I think this is what you are referring to:

[italic]Ethel's college friends said she was very "confused, but back then we didn't address such confusion as we would today. In our circle, you either got married, or you became a nun. Those were your choices."[/italic]

Bobby used to date Ethel's sister Patricia, and Ethel was interested in Jack, but Jack wasn't interested in her and she wanted to be a Kennedy.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 3708/30/2011

R28, Joy Behar bitch said there was an FBI report that was declassified fairly recently that revealed Bobby, Jack, and Ted Kennedy went to the Carlyle Hotel along with Frank Sinatra and rented a room. Marilyn was brought along and she was THE ONLY female in the room. Apparently Marilyn took on all 4 guys having sex with her. Poor Marilyn she was so used. She was very vulnerable because she was always looking for male acceptance no matter how low she had to go, and Frank Sinatra and the Kennedys knew it and took full advantage of her. So, I didn%E2%80%99t mean to divert the subject to make it focused on Marilyn Monroe.

Ethel was the typical high society wife, which were told to look the other way when their husbands had affairs, mistresses, etc. Bobby was part of that good old boy way of life. Also, Bobby had affairs with Candice Bergen, Jackie, of course, and numerous other rich and famous women.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 3808/30/2011

Cause she would suck him until the cows came home.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 3908/30/2011

It's taking Joy a lot longer than I expected to go through all the files the FBI dropped off at her house.%0D %0D All these thoughtful memories about Bobby ... remember, he was the one who suggested we blow up an American naval vessel and blame it on the Cubans as an excuse for invading.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 4008/31/2011

Well Bobby liked her, didn't he? Why would he make her 11 kids otherwise?

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 4108/31/2011

R38, that would have happened after 1960. Ten or more years after they were married. Bobby & Ethel were married in 1950.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 4208/31/2011

Maybe it was heroin, like John and Yoko.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 4308/31/2011

"If any of the White House domestic staff that served Jack and Jackie is still alive, I'm sure they'd dispute your claim. EK was a major, imperious bitch on heels, especially to her household staff."%0D %0D As opposed to sweet, kind Jackie? From what I know about Jackie, she was a first class snob who considered herself "above" the little people who served her. %0D %0D And as far as Ethel's spending goes...well, she had nothing on Jackie! Jackie spent money like water, first as Kennedy's wife, then as the wife of Aristotle Onassis. She was a compulsive spender; after being presented with some huge bills JFK exploded and told her that if he didn't have an income in addition to his salary as President of the United States they would be bankrupt. It was THAT bad. %0D %0D

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 4408/31/2011

"Joy Behar bitch said there was an FBI report that was declassified fairly recently that revealed Bobby, Jack, and Ted Kennedy went to the Carlyle Hotel along with Frank Sinatra and rented a room. Marilyn was brought along and she was THE ONLY female in the room. Apparently Marilyn took on all 4 guys having sex with her. Poor Marilyn she was so used."%0D %0D You mean you actually BELIEVE that? That Marilyn Monroe was in a gangbang with Bobby, Jack and Ted Kennedy and Frank Sinatra? The one woman getting porked by several men is one of the most banal of porn scenarios. That story doesn't sound like an "FBI report"; it sounds like a tabloid story or somebody's sick fantasy.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 4508/31/2011

Since she refused any and all forms of artificial birth control, I assume she never objected to The Difficult Brown as a form of lovemaking. That was probably part of the attraction for him.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 4608/31/2011

I haven't read the report, neither did I hear Joy Behar. I would, however, point out that J. Edgar Hoover and Bobby Kennedy [italic]hated[/italic] each other. I would not readily believe anything Hoover's FBI wrote about RFK.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 4708/31/2011

She bore 11 children and you seriously think she sought to avoid conception, r46? Reminds me of the saying that the Italians write church law, the French circumvent it, and the Irish are the only ones who actually adhere to it.

They've been dead over 40 years but some people never tire of kicking a Kennedy corpse.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 4908/31/2011

[quote]They've been dead over 40 years but some people never tire of kicking a Kennedy corpse.

She's still alive, honey. Look into it.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 5008/31/2011

R47 that is a very good point, and I'm aware of the tension between J. Edgar Hoover and the Kenndys. However, what would Hoover gain-reporting lies about the Kenndys recorded in an FBI file? Hoover would have wanted damaging information to leak to the public on the Kenndys than a classified FBI file. Also, Hoover wanted to know all the dirt about everyone because he loved gossip. He had a file on almost every rich and famous person around, and files on many average people as well. 90% of the rich and famous homes were bugged.

A thief stole Natalie Wood's jewelry in the 60's. She didn't want anyone to know about it because all of her jewelry was fake. However, J. Edgar Hover new everything about what happen and that Natalie Wood's jewelry was fake.

Hoover had a file on Rock Hudson%E2%80%99s all male orgies that took place at his estate. The file indicated that many, many actor%E2%80%99s went to the all male orgies and participated in them, but the various actor's names were blacked out on the FBI file when it was revealed to the public

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 5109/01/2011

[quote]The file indicated that many, many actor's went to the all male orgies and participated in them

Hoover kept these files in his bedside table and jack off over them.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 5209/01/2011

"90% of the rich and famous homes were bugged."%0D %0D I seriously doubt that. Again, it sounds like something out of a ridiculous tabloid story. %0D

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 5309/01/2011

I pick my nose.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 5409/01/2011

Because she had man hands and feet, and that strangely aroused him.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 5509/01/2011

He got her pregnant and it was a shot gun wedding.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 5609/01/2011

She could suck a golf ball through a garden hose

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 5709/01/2011

She's alive and beautiful

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 5809/01/2011

r33 JFK Jr also banged SJP. So there's 3 pretty unattractive women he was with. Maybe it made him feel better about himself or he didn't want a woman overshadowing him in the looks department.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 5909/01/2011

r58 Wow, good thing he died in 68..could you imagine growing old with that?

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 6009/01/2011

You homos are so young and clueless...

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 6109/01/2011

No, he could have not have had ANY WOMAN IN THE WORLD.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 6209/01/2011

I used to fantasize that Bobby and Jackie did it after JFK died.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 6309/01/2011

Bobby married her because they looked alike.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 6409/01/2011

Bobby and Ethel were both very devote and that was another binding tie. Don't underestimate the power of religion in that family. With all their depredations, they hardly ever missed mass. %0D %0D Ethel was enthusiastic, and fun loving, and made Bobby less morose. Someone once said of Bobby that he was wonderfully unassimilated, meaning he was very "Irish" of temprament. %0D %0D Bobby was scrappy, he liked to fight. For him there were no grey areas, only black and white. He was very rigid and rule oriented. Ethel got him to lighten up in ways his brothers couldn't.%0D %0D It seemed to some people that he was trying to make up for all his father and his brothers' sins with his rectitude. He was also henpecked by his mother. He took Rosie seriously when the other sons just humored her.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 6509/01/2011

I meant "devout" not "devote"....%0D %0D .....oh, dear.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 6609/01/2011

My family owned a business in SunValley where the Kennedy's would vacation. Ethel was rude and had a reputation for not paying her bills.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 6709/02/2011

lol r60 Ethel was such a bitch to David her 3rd son and bobby's favorite. she was so phoney when bobby was around and her mask came off when he died

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 6809/02/2011

Ethel used to beat those kids like gongs. That's the real reason Jackie would not let her kids visit her, not her "messy home" ' ( she had tons of servants at Hickory Hill )

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 6909/02/2011

They both had terrible overbites.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 7009/02/2011

There's a great photograph of the whole Kennedy Family in the White House after JFK was elected. They are all in the middle of having a big laugh at something , except for Ethel who is standing there picking her nose.

"Hey Ethel, dig it out whole and we'll make CHOWDAH!"

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 7109/02/2011

Ethel always reminds me of Goobers wife in "Cat on a Hot Tin Roof".... butt ugly, conniving brood sow ... and they even look alike.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 7209/02/2011

Ethel hated Jackie because Jackie had everything she lacked: poise, class and beauty. The public adored Jackie and shouted "We love you!" to her. To Ethel, they shouted, "Waitress, I'd like to order a drink."%0D %0D I remember an anecdote during Bobby's 1968 presidential campaign when he was way ahead and things were looking very good that he could be the next president of the United States.%0D %0D Jackie and other family members were all at a gathering and she exuberantly said something like "It will be so wonderful if we win the White House again."%0D %0D And Ethel snarled, "What do you mean 'we'."%0D

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 7309/02/2011

Correct R73, but Ethel wasn't the only one. The Kennedy sisters were jealous of Jackie too. They constantly ragged on her for being a snob...calling her "deb" etc. It must have been hard for ALL the Kennedy women to live in Jackie's shadow. She was fawned over by everyone, including Joe who didn't bother to hide the fact that she was his favorite. It would be like having a supermodel for in the family.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 7409/02/2011

"Ethel hated Jackie because Jackie had everything she lacked: poise, class and beauty. The public adored Jackie and shouted "We love you!" to her. To Ethel, they shouted, "Waitress, I'd like to order a drink."%0D %0D Ethel didn't "hate" Jackie, you twat. They didn't have anything to do with each other. Ethel had her life, Jackie had hers. And I seriously doubt that the public shouted "I love you!" to Jackie and "Waitress, I'd like to order a drink" to Ethel. That's just bullshit you made up, you silly Jackie fangurl.%0D %0D "The Kennedy sisters were jealous of Jackie too. They constantly ragged on her for being a snob...calling her "deb" etc. It must have been hard for ALL the Kennedy women to live in Jackie's shadow. She was fawned over by everyone, including Joe who didn't bother to hide the fact that she was his favorite. It would be like having a supermodel for in the family."%0D %0D They were not "jealous" of her. They found her snottiness and stuck-up manner hilarious. And just who the hell "fawned" over her? Not the Kennedys! They frequently made fun of her; they snickered about the fact that she said her name was pronounced "Jack-leen" instead of "Jack-que-line." "Rhymes with queen", they chortled. %0D %0D Humorless, whispery-voiced, staid Jackie stuck out like a sore thumb among the Kennedys. She was always an outsider; she never fit in among them. %0D %0D

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 7509/02/2011

[quote]And just who the hell "fawned" over her?

Uh, the entire world dipshit. We're talking Lady Di levels of worship. Were you ever around in the 60's? Jackie O is an icon. People are still fascinated by her even now---50 years later. Ethel? Not so much.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 7609/02/2011

Actually, Jackie maintained a cordial relationship with her sisters-in-law all of her life. Were they the best of friends? No, but they were in contact on a regular basis, and were always together for family events.

I have no doubt a few bitchy things were said; I remember my own mother's relationship with some family members on my father's side not being extremely close, but that's the way it is in any family.

And surprisingly enough, the name "Ethel" was considered to be pretty and high-class in the early part of the 20th century.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 7709/02/2011

[quote]She was fawned over by everyone, including Joe who didn't bother to hide the fact that she was his favorite.

There was a thread here a while ago that suggested Jacqueline slept with Joe Kennedy. I think it may be possible. They were very close. He gave her everything. He paid for her designer look in the White House. All of the bills for Oleg Cassini were sent to Joe. When she wanted a horse, he bought her that too.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 7809/02/2011

%0D Rose Kennedy never showed her children much love. And RFK probably received the least. She called him "the runt."%0D %0D Do my guess is Ethel's devout Catholism attracted Bobby - but probably not in a healthy way. But he needed the love of a devout woman - or so he thought.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 8009/02/2011

R73 that is right, Ethel did get pissed at Jackie when Jackie said we in Bobby's campaign. They said she almost acted like she was going to become the first lady.

Jack never ever worked in his life. He only worked on the expectations he was supposed to fulfill as president. Jack father paid for everything through out Jack's life and when Jack married Jackie, Jack's father paid for everything for Jackie as well. All they did was send the bill to Jack's father. I doubt Jackie and her father-in- law were an item because she had something that her father- in -law desperately wanted from her, class. He knew Jackie was the most special out of all of the rest of his daughters-in-law. He knew Jackie would be a perfect first lady and what she would bring to the White House and to his son's presidency.Jack's father was driven constantly trying to gain power by using his sons as chest pieces.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 8109/02/2011

Joe Kennedy didn't "fawn" over her. He thought she would make a good wife for Jack because she was "classy" but I don't think he had any particular fondness for her. Anyway, Jack and Jackie were a match made in hell; they had absolutely no love for each other, although Jackie adored being the wife of the President of the United States. %0D %0D Jackie was a style icon for a while and the world fell at her feet when JFK got killed. But her image and reputation took a big hit after she married Aristotle Onassis. Her fangurls insist she married him for "security (she wasn't exactly destitute to being with)", but she was a golddigger, plain and simple. She married him for his money, which she worshipped. She didn't want to be just rich; she wanted to be filthy, obscenely rich.%0D %0D I hear her daughter Caroline inherited her mother's "money lust", as some people call it. %0D I call it just plain old nasty greed.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 8209/02/2011

[r79] "pinging" refers to radar~while RFK may have had what some people consider effeminate intonations. It's not what "gaydar" is all about. You've corrupted it and, quite frankly, dumbed it down.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 8309/02/2011

I was referring to the assassinated brothers, r50.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 8409/02/2011

[quote]Jack never ever worked in his life.

What a stupid comment. He was a congressman and then a senator and then president of the United States. All of those are jobs that earn a salary.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 8509/02/2011

Jack never ever worked in his life.%0D %0D What a stupid comment. He was a congressman and then a senator and then president of the United States. All of those are jobs that earn a salary.%0D %0D %0D %0D %0D As well as a well known Lt in the US Navy.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 8609/02/2011

The dislike between the other Kennedy women (except Joan) and Jackie was pretty deep-seated: they were jealous of Jackie's marriage to her and the fact that she was prettier than any of them were, but she was also put on airs and not only wouldn't engage in rough-and-tumble Kennedy play but made clear her disapproval of it. Ethel disliked her the most and always referred to her to her sisters-in-law and Rose mockingly as "Zhock-LEEN" (before the Kennedy presidency, pronouncing "Jacqueline" the French way, as Jackie did, was considered incredibly pretentious in the US).

Rose and Ethel always thought it was hilarious that when Jackie used the bathroom she would always run tap water first--so no one would hear her piss or take a shit. (Given the fact they were from giant families who were always falling on top of each other they considered that ridiculous, but Jackie was from a small family and was more used to privacy.)

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 8709/02/2011

"Jacqueline, rhymes with Queen"

~Ethel "I pick my nose" Skankel

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 8809/02/2011

Did Dominick Dunne hate all the Kennedys or just Ethel and her brood?

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 8909/02/2011

"(before the Kennedy presidency, pronouncing "Jacqueline" the French way, as Jackie did, was considered incredibly pretentious in the US)".

Um, it still is...

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 9009/02/2011

Here we go! Check the link out from the latest on Darwin Porter's book on the Kenndeys. He claims that the Kennedy men not only had sex with actress but with actors as well.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 9109/03/2011

R79 is right. R83 needs to get over herself.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 9209/03/2011

and [r92] needs to get over the dick in his mouth. ("her" really?)

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 9309/03/2011

Rose Kennedy was a neglected, angry bitch of a wife/mother who would disappear off to Europe after she shot out a new one....so its no surprise Bobby would marry a similarly unappealing, foolish woman

her inability to control her breeding rites - giving birth to a brood she was unable and disinterested in controlling is the result - along with her famously obnoxious and incredibly unattractive children

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 9409/03/2011

Icon much?

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 9509/03/2011

SJP greeted JFKJr at the airport in a limo wearing nothing but a mink coat; of course he found her attractive.%0D %0D Joe paid Jackie's bills becase she stayed with Jack espite his outside sex; she got a Braque painting from the father in exchange for agreeing to stay after JFK gave her an STD.%0D %0D Grace Kelly's family travelled to Europe with the Kennedys by ship when Grace graduated from high school (doubt they were on the same ship by accident.( JFK and Grace spent time together, but Joe decided the match wasn't suitable because the Kellys were "too show bisiness" (her father's brother was a playwright.) they probably weren't rich enough for him. Despite attending a good Philadelhia gir's school apparently Grace made no attempt to apply to college; when her family got back from Europe that summer, she and her mother toured women's colleges in the East and were *astonished* to find that she was supposed to have applied the previous winter. She wound up talking her way into AADA. I always thought her parents and the Kennedys expected her to hook up with one of the Kennedy boys on that cruise.%0D %0D While she was at Manhattanville (then on what is now the City Collee campus in Harlem) Ethel's family hosted her friends and Bobby each weekend in Greenwich while he tutored the girls in history. Probably also arranged by the families. After college Ethel stayed on to teach PE there for a while, then "volunteered" on Jack's campaigns for a few years, probably spending her time ingratiating herself with the family until Bobby gae up and married her.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 9609/03/2011

[quote]Rose Kennedy never showed her children much love. And RFK probably received the least. She called him "the runt."

Well it's better than getting a lobotomy!

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 9709/03/2011

Or being disowned by your own mother for marrying a Protestant English aristocrat. Then when the bitch finally has you killed off in a plane crash she refuses to attend your funeral.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 9809/03/2011

[quote] Why did Robert Kennedy marry Ethel Skankel?

Because she asked him?

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 9909/03/2011

"After college Ethel stayed on to teach PE there for a while,"

***contemptuous snicker***

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 10009/03/2011

who is sjp?

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 10109/03/2011

Sarah Jessica Parker

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 10209/03/2011

[quote]After college Ethel stayed on to teach PE there for a while

Lol. Forget Bobby and any faint ping from him, Ethel's the one that pings hard.

Poor thing. Football loving, horse-faced dyke has to be a good catholic and churn out a baby every year. Probably loved being pregnant though, no sex with a man for 9 months!

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 10309/03/2011

Wasn't Ethel an avid tennis player as well? Throw in golf , PE, never remarrying, it does start to add up doesn't it?

If I didn't know better I'd say the she pulled the trigger herself before baby #12 was forced upon her ( and you just KNOW she would have had a few more in the White House. just to finally one up on Jackie....)

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 10409/03/2011

That's right R104. She was pregnant with their last child when he was killed before her eyes.%0D %0D Ethel loved Bobby long before he realized he loved her. He was extremely shy and very much idolized his older brothers Joe and Jack.%0D %0D They had one of the few loving relationships in that family. Well, except Jackie and John did get close again after Patrick died. Eunice and Sarge were a very loving couple. But Patricia, Jean, Kathleen, Joe, Teddy all had miserable luck with love. J%0D %0D oan was an alcoholic, Teddy was too, as well as a whore. It's funny how the Kennedy men were so contemptuous of women, and were so promiscuous, and Bobby really wasn't. %0D %0D I think Rosie was better suited as a mother to her sons as brittle and religious as she was, then she was a decent mother to her daughters. Her daughters all suffered one way or another from the extreme religiosity the permeated their entire lives. I think Joe,Sr. was contemptuous of religion and saw it as a necessary evil.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 10509/03/2011

R95,

Ugh, that face.

In the words of Tallulah Bankhead: "Dahling, please, people are eating."

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 10609/03/2011

[quote]Rose Kennedy never showed her children much love. And RFK probably received the least. She called him "the runt."

Rose called him her little pet. Joe called him the runt.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 10809/03/2011

I am not surprised that Ethel Kennedy is belittles her simply because she was not beautiful.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 10909/03/2011

It is funny how it is like they watered down their line or something. The more kids they had the uglier they grew. Some of those children grew up to actually look like beavers.

I think Robert Kennedy married Ethel because she was there. I really do. He dated her sister first and they both actually had a lot in common but she was very modern minded and in that era such a thing just could not be. So, he went for the second best in Ethel because she was there.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 11009/03/2011

I've always wondered if Ethel might be a repressed lesbian; she always gave off a dykey gym teacher vibe. Because of her devout Catholicism, the times she lived in and her family/social background she maybe just repressed everything because that's what people in her situation did back then.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 11109/03/2011

It must have been awful for her growing up with that face and that NAME..

"ETHEL SKAKEL" Onomatopoetic isn't it?

Lucky she had money and was considered a passable 8 by New England beauty standards.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 11209/03/2011

[quote]Well, except Jackie and John did get close again after Patrick died.

Again?

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 11309/03/2011

[quote]Joan Kennedy was the only woman in the Kennedy family that Jackie actually liked and got along with. They saw each other regularly until Jackie died%0D %0D Jackie called them "the toothy girls."%0D %0D Joan showed up at some dreary family event in a tight leopard skin print swim suit. This was beyond the pale for the Kennedys. Jackie took up for her--said that Joan had a great figure--why shouldn't she wear the suit?%0D %0D

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 11409/03/2011

It's somewhat of a rare find, but one of the best books I've ever read about Bobby (and I've read almost all of them), was this one.

I think Ethel was a bitch and find her completely uninteresting, so I don't remember what it said about her. But for getting a handle on Bobby's personality, it's a good read.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 11509/03/2011

[quote]Joan showed up at some dreary family event in a tight leopard skin print swim suit.%0D %0D I've always thought those Kennedy family get-togethers must have been boring as hell unless you were a blood-related Kennedy. The in-laws just sat on the porch having to listen to Rose drone on and on about the Church while all the siblings played yet another game of touch football on the lawn. No wonder Joan drank and Jackie was a chain-smoker. I can just picture Joan and Jackie on the porch talking shit about everyone.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 11609/03/2011

[quote]Well, except Jackie and John did get close again after Patrick died.

Or maybe after the repeated doses of the clap he kept giving her , she wanted to wait for a few clean health reports before she open up her "Camelot" for him.

The uterine cancer that killed her can be linked directly to exposure to syphilis and gonorrhea , even after being successfully treated.

Same thing happened to Eva Peron, but she was a ashore anyways, whereas Jackie merely married one.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 11709/03/2011

Jackie got non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, not uterine cancer

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 11809/03/2011

r117, Jackie died of non-Hodgkins lymphoma.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 11909/03/2011

[quote]The uterine cancer that killed her can be linked directly to exposure to syphilis and gonorrhea , even after being successfully treated.

Such horseshit.

If it "can be directly linked," then you'd better do so, or shut up.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 12009/03/2011

A family member of mine worked years ago at a Northern Virginia Lord & Taylor. She would tell us stories of Ethel purchasing very expensive clothing, gowns, etc., then a few days later returning them, complete with (for example) wine stains. The store always took them back, no questions asked.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 12109/03/2011

I read that same thing in one of those Kennedy family books. Nice try, R121. Only it wasn't Lord & Taylor, irt was Saks. Or Bergdorf. Or Bonwit Teller. And maybe it was Ethel. Or Jackie. Or Jean. Or Rose Kennedy herself. Or Joan. And Maybe it was L.A. and Rodeo Drive. The fact is they were all cheap and yes, they did wear clothes and return them. Stained, torn, and very often photographed!

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 12209/04/2011

Ethe-- I mean, r122, isn't past bedtime for an 83 year old?

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 12309/04/2011

[quote]Here we go! Check the link out from the latest on Darwin Porter's book on the Kenndeys. He claims that the Kennedy men not only had sex with actress but with actors as well.

I wonder which actors.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 12409/04/2011

My sister worked with and was friends with this lady who her son was a ski instructor at some exclusive ski resort for the very rich and famous many years ago. He said that whenever the Kennedys left a hotel room they would trash it to the point that walls had holes in them, and the furniture was busted up and that is just the tip of the iceberg. Finally the hotel manager told them never to come back and to get out immediately. They said, don't you know who we are?! You can't speak to us like that and we can do whatever we want. The hotel manger said I don%E2%80%99t care who you are and you can%E2%80%99t destroy my hotel if you want to. The Kennedys were just furious. They acted as if you spoke to royalty in a tone that is not allowed.

Also, I worked with this lady once who her daughter was married to a wealthy doctor and they moved to one of the exclusive seaside towns where the Kennedys owned a home and vacationed frequently. I forgot the name of the town. Anyway, her daughter said, mom the town and especially the shop owners, hate the Kennedy family with a purple passion. She said the children in the Kennedy family would go into the shops and purposely break things, knock things to the floor, and throwing their weight around. When the shop owners protested their bad behavior, the Kennedy%E2%80%99s would say, we are the Kennedy family and we can do whatever we please, tough!

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 12509/04/2011

Mary!^^^^ (r125)

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 12609/04/2011

Ethel would have been a good first lady.

I was reading up on Jackie O and her hair was notoriously dry and brittle. I was scandalized.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 12709/04/2011

R127, that was a problem in the old century, wasn't it. Too much back-combing and spray. That old fashioned hairspray that turned hair into steel wool. It was likely damaged by over coloring it too.%0D %0D I always thought Jackie had very wavy hair she straightened with heat. JFK, Jr. had that dark, thick, wavy hair too...but that might have been from his Italian side.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 12809/04/2011

Italian side?

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 12909/04/2011

Which of his sides was Italian, the front or the back?

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 13009/04/2011

Jackie always had thick, frizzy hair. Caroline and JFK Jr inherited the same type of hair.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 13109/04/2011

That's wavy,not frizzy. And it looks quite nice.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 13209/04/2011

%0D It was Joan Kennedy that had fried hair. Unbelievably so.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 13309/04/2011

I never saw the "great beauty" of Jackie that others supposedly saw. She was always really odd-looking to me.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 13409/04/2011

They were well matched, athletic, attractive in that manner, Roman Catholic and wild. Neither the Kennedys nor the Skakels were "high society". My Mom likes to tell the story that the Skakels were the only family to be booted out of the Larchmont Yacht Club. They were NOT a classy family and yes they were wealthy but not nearly as wealthy as the Kennedys at the time of their marriage. Later on they became even wilder after Roberts assassination. Ethel Kennedy was and I suppose is, a wreckless woman- and devote Catholic, odd combination. To me she also has seemed alcoholic- not like her sister in law Joan who became a fall down drunk, marooned by the roadside drinker- but a drinker no less.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 13509/04/2011

[quote]I never saw the "great beauty" of Jackie that others supposedly saw. She was always really odd-looking to me.

Amen!

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 13609/04/2011

Jackie Kennedy wasn't actually beautiful, she was glamorous.%0D %0D The old meaning of the world "glamour" was really "illusion", and the word "glamorous" can be used to describe a woman who manages to appear beautiful, even if she's really nothing special to look at. %0D %0D Jackie Kennedy was the epitome of glamour, by all possible definitions.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 13709/04/2011

By R137's definition I would say JLo is the epitome of glamour.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 13809/04/2011

Jackie's mother Janet Auchincloss was, by all accounts, a first-class cunt.%0D %0D Jackie's sister Lee Radziwill is still alive, drinking and smoking at 78.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 13909/04/2011

I've heard other stories like that R125. I wonder if it was just Bobby and Ethel's kids or did the Shrivers, Lawfords and the others act that was too.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 14009/04/2011

This explains why Maria keeps Patrick in the cart.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 14109/04/2011

[quote]I never saw the "great beauty" of Jackie that others supposedly saw. She was always really odd-looking to me.

I'm with you. Add that bimbo whisper in which she talked and she's really not someone to fawn over.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 14209/04/2011

Patty in the cart, what a cute kid.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 14309/04/2011

"Here we go! Check the link out from the latest on Darwin Porter's book on the Kenndeys. He claims that the Kennedy men not only had sex with actress but with actors as well."%0D %0D Of course you realize Darwin Porter is full of shit, don't you? He'll say anything about anybody.%0D %0D I've been reading Porter's book (written along with Roy Moseley, whoever that is) "Damn You, Scarlett O'Hara: the private lives of Vivien Leigh and Laurence Olivier." The dialogue and behavior he attributes to various stars is so blatantly false that's it's hilarious. The book reads like a bad script. %0D %0D Here's a few examples:%0D %0D Denys Blakelock: "Larry looked good enough to eat, which I proceeded to do. What a tasty cream pie."%0D %0D Ralph Richardson: "Larry turned into a most beautiful man, the kind certain British gents like to sodomize."%0D %0D Olivier enraged that Merle Oberlon objects to him spitting on her when delivering his lines: "Why you little amateur bitch, you bloody whore. How dare you speak to me in that way? What's a little spit between actors, for Christ's sake. You're a bloody little idiot Miss Queenie."%0D %0D Olivier on Marilyn Monroe: "I detested the little bleached blonde whore. She can act only when the camera is rolling. She has bad hygiene. She's a selfish little tart who fucked her way up the ladder. In front of the press we put on a show for the cameras, and that's it. Monroe and I are finished. The picture is a disaster. Only in Hollywood would a two-bit hooker like Monroe get to act opposite Sir Laurence Olivier, and I say that in all modesty. Do you know what that silly cunt said to me at one point? She said she'd like to play Lady Macbeth opposite me."

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 14409/04/2011

That writing is so bad it's funny.

I was going to ask about that book, thanks for writing that, R144.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 14509/04/2011

Ethel never supervised her kids, who ran around their Va estate like hooligans. Jackie married Onassis to get away from the Kennedy brood; a bad bunch, the whole lot, especially Ethel's nephew, the murderer.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 14609/04/2011

I read this by Kerry McCarthy, a great-niece of Rose Kennedy.

"She taught us how you're supposed to act to your husband, how you're supposed to have a chaise lounge in the bedroom. You put your nylons and your robe on the chaise lounge and you keep a lap robe which is folded down, and when your husband comes in, everything is perfect."

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 14709/04/2011

[quote]I never saw the "great beauty" of Jackie that others supposedly saw. She was always really odd-looking to me.

I never got the "great beauty" either.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 14809/04/2011

Jackie wasn't a great beauty, she was just a great dresser.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 14909/05/2011

Jackie had a strange body, her head, hands, and feet were the size of a man's. When Halston use to design hats for Jackie, he used to try them on his head first because he had the same size head as Jackie. I totally agree with R149, Jackie was a beautiful dress ,bu this notion that she was a beautiful women is loony. I'm sorry for the harsh words ,but her eyes looked like she was some insect.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 15009/05/2011

I like to think that Bobby married Ethel because, like John Barrymore said about his last young wife when asked why he married her:

"It fits!"

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 15109/05/2011

In 1948 while Bobby was seeing Ethel he started seeing actress Joan Winmill in England. He told a friend, "Ethel's fun, but she's just a girl. Joan's a real woman." He never told either of the women about the other. When his sister Jean and Ethel came over to London, he introduced Ethel as his sister's friend. Of course, Joe Kennedy was against any serious relationship with an actress and in 1949 Bobby broke it off with Joan in a letter saying he was marrying Ethel.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 15209/05/2011

[quote]Jackie wasn't a great beauty, she was just a great dresser.

Would she have been considered a great dresser if she didn't have a personal designer during her White House years? I mean was she considered a fashion icon before the White House?

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 15309/06/2011

Ethel's mother was obese; both her parents were major alcoholics, probably the source of several of the RFK brood's addiction genes.%0D %0D Jackie had good taste; she won some sort of magazine contest (Glamour?) when she was 19 for what we would call a fashion internship in Paris, but her mother refused to allow her to go.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 15409/06/2011

R140%0D %0D The Shriver's were the most proactive and engaged parents out of the whole lot. %0D %0D Bobby Shriver used to hang out with the RFK children. He got busted for weed possession while hanging out with them. Sargent Shriver (RIP)gave him a good talking to, made him pay the piper, and then sent him off with relatives over in Southern California for the rest of the summer to get straightened out. Sargent Shriver had relatives in Southern California for ages and I guess that might be why Maria and Bobby Shriver have always felt at home there. %0D %0D Meanwhile. RFK, JR. Also got busted, right? Ethel tried to beat him for it and that was it. She did not give a him a good talking to or even go all old chool and send him off to military school or anything. She just tried to beat him. Eunice (RIP) tried to help her out with that a very great deal and that is why she let Sargent to tend to her son. Eunice was very much ahead of her time and so, yeah, she let (or read, like allowed, even) Sargent tend to her son so that he could be freed up to help Ethel out of respect for her late brother not being around to do it. Ethel, as I stated, only tried to beat the boy and that was it. %0D %0D So. Two points for the Shriver's on that and zero for Ethel. %0D %0D I have a cold and typed this out 'high' on otc cold medicine and so I am sorry for any errors in my posting, y'all.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 15509/06/2011

[quote]Bobby Shriver used to hang out with the RFK children. He got busted for weed possession while hanging out with them. Sargent Shriver (RIP)gave him a good talking to, made him pay the piper, and then sent him off with relatives over in Southern California for the rest of the summer to get straightened out.%0D %0D I'm sure Sargent gave Bobby a lecture about the evils of marijuana during his nightly cocktail hour. Attitudes about marijuana back then were absolutely fucking ridiculous.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 15609/06/2011

The Shrivers and Jackie and her kids were close. Jackie and Eunice wouldn't let their kids hang around the Bobby & Ethel kids. By the time they'd reached adolescence, they were hellions. I read one account that tried to blame LeMoyne Billings for the excesses of the boys. Lemoyne was gay, and heavily into drugs. He suffered from depression and never got over Bobby's death. He was close to Jack and Bobby.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 15709/06/2011

[quote]Jackie had good taste; she won some sort of magazine contest (Glamour?) when she was 19 for what we would call a fashion internship in Paris, but her mother refused to allow her to go.

She won in 1951. It was Jackie's mother, Janet, who came across the article in Vogue about its Prix de Paris writing contest.

In her personal profile for the application she wrote:

As to physical appearance, I am tall, 5%E2%80%997%E2%80%9D, with brown hair, a square face and eyes so unfortunately far apart that it takes three weeks to have a pair of glasses made with a bridge wide enough to fit over my nose. I do not have a sensational figure but can look slim if I pick the right clothes. I flatter myself on being able at times to walk out of the house looking like the poor man%E2%80%99s Paris copy, but often my mother will run up to inform me that my left stocking seam is crooked or the right-hand topcoat button about to fall off. This, I realize, is the Unforgiveable Sin.

The winner would first spend six months in the magazine's Paris office working as a junior editor, then six months working on writing assignments for the New York office.

On her first day of training in the New York office, she quit abruptly. Janet did encourage her to not take the opportunity partly because Jackie would live with her father Black Jack while in NY.

One Vogue editor believed Jackie had made the right decision. Carole Phillips found Jackie to be insecure about her abilities. Her advice to Jackie was to go back to Washington, D.C., because that's where all the eligible bachelors were.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 15809/06/2011

Jackie's kids were closest to her sister, Lee's kids. Unfortunately, Lee's son, Antony,died soon after John, Jr.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 15909/06/2011

Did Lem Billings ever come out of the closet? Did he ever find someone?

I can only find this letter JFK wrote Lem in the 1930s or 1940s

"After you call someone a fairy, and discuss it for two solid hours, and argue about whether you did or did not go down on Worthington Johnson, you don%E2%80%99t write a letter saying that you think that fellow is a great guy, even if it%E2%80%99s true, which it was.%E2%80%99%E2%80%9D

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 16009/06/2011

[quote]I'm sure Sargent gave Bobby a lecture about the evils of marijuana during his nightly cocktail hour. Attitudes about marijuana back then were absolutely fucking ridiculous.

I read Pat Kennedy drank a bottle of wine for breakfast.

Is JFK the only one of his generation to have smoked pot in the 60s?

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 16109/07/2011

Which one was Pat Kennedy, R161? I lose track; there are so many of them.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 16209/07/2011

Pat Kennedy Smith is the only Kennedy sibling who is still alive.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 16309/07/2011

How many kids do you think RFK and Ethel would have had if he'd lived? The mind boggles.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 16409/07/2011

Pat Kennedy Lawford.

Jean Kennedy Smith is the only one still alive.

R164, how many years form menopause was Ethel in 1968. Just looking now at the years their kids were born, it was every year to every other year. The only real break was between 1959 to 1963.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 16509/07/2011

She was 40 in 1968. Maybe could have squeezed out one more, but fertility drops dramatically after 35. It's almost nil @ 40--- without the help of fertility drugs.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 16609/07/2011

r166...Back in the 60's, it was not uncommon at all for women to have babies well into their forties. Today, it is not encouraged to do so, but it is certainly possible. If you see baby boomers whose parents seem like they should be their grandparents, chances are they were what was called then, "change of life babies" Many women in the pre-menopausal state became pregnant because they had stopped getting regular periods and thought they were safe. Then, surprise!!! These were also the days when abortions were not considered by the regular folk.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 16709/07/2011

It is possible and certainly did happen R167, but by no means was it common. After 40 your chances of getting pregnant each month are only a meager 5%, and when you do get pregnant, 53% end in miscarriage.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 16809/07/2011

Maybe, R166, but it looks like Ethel was just getting her second wind at 35.

Christopher George Kennedy (b.1963)

Matthew Maxwell Taylor Kennedy (b.1965)

Douglas Harriman Kennedy (b.1967)

Rory Kennedy Bailey (b.1968)

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 16909/07/2011

Has Ethel been celibate since 1968? That explains a lot. Someone get that woman a vibrator.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 17009/08/2011

Wow, Ted Kennedy is a cutie in R172's link! He kind of looks like Trey from Sean Cody...

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 17309/18/2011

There's no Jahk-leen in the photo linked at R172.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 17409/18/2011

Isn't that her sitting on the couch with Ted?

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 17509/18/2011

Maybe, but the dress looks kind of frumpy for her.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 17609/18/2011

She has JFK Jr about two weeks after this photo is taken. That is probably why, R176.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 17709/18/2011

The pool house at Hickory Hills where Ethel created a Bobby shrine.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 17810/15/2011

Trick pelvis.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 17910/15/2011

For anyone interested, there's a very good biography of Robert Kennedy entitled "Robert Kennedy: His Life" by Evan Thomas. Here are captions from some of the photographs in the book:

RFK married Ethel Skakel in a society wedding in Greenwich, Connecticut, attended by 1,200 guests in June 1950. Sporty, joshing and ebullient, Ethel fit in easily with the Kennedy clan. She had briefly considered becoming a nun, and her purity appealed to RFK, who scorned "loose women" to his friends. Housekeeping was not Ethel's forte, nor was thrift. But she was unstinting in her affection towards RFK. A moralist like her husband, Ethel believed, as she put it, in "goodies and baddies." To her RFK was perfect. Ethel gave RFK the unconditional love that he had never received from his own family. A classmate of RFK's at the University of Virginia Law school remarked that Ethel "looked at Bobby like she did at God. God did inexplicable things, but he was never wrong." The Kennedys bought their MacLean, Virginia estate, Hickory Hill, in 1956 and turned it into a vibrant center of parties and games for friends, guests and their eleven children.

RFK and Ethel at Hickory Hill in 1967 with nine of their eleven children. RFK welcomed the tumult that greeted him when he walked in the door at night. He was uneasy with newborns, seemingly afraid that he would drop one, but he loved to roughhouse as the children grew older. If a boy cried, Kennedy would hug him, but not in a coddling way. "Hush now", he'd say. "A Kennedy never cries."

RFK's mood, often iracible, improved when Ethel came on the campaign plane.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 18010/15/2011

What about the words "money" and "Catholic" do you not get, OP?

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 18110/15/2011

R155, that was herion RFK Jr was busted for.

He surely would have run for office by now if that hadn't happened.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 18310/15/2011

[quote]For a bit of history and perspective: the Skakels gave the Kennedys class.

Just before Bobby and Ethel's wedding ceremony was to begin, Ethel's brothers tricked Lem Billings into bending over to pick up some coins they had thrown into the aisle and kicked him in the ass, sending him sprawling in front of the bride's processional.

Yes, they're classy.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 18410/15/2011

This is mostly about JFK, but has an interesting comment about Robert --

Memories Of Kennedy

Quentin Letts, 07.09.09, 12:00 AM ET

Three beautiful vignettes about Jack Kennedy have just been published by the Dowager Duchess of Devonshire. They give a fleeting flavor of Kennedy as a young man in London in 1938, the excitement of his presidential inauguration in 1961 and the puffy-faced misery at his funeral two years later.

In her youth, Deborah Devonshire was one of England's audacious "Mitford girls," six thoroughbred sisters who turned heads in the unlikeliest quarters. (Hitler was mad about Unity, whereas Jessica was a pinup for lefties.) "Debo" was related to Kennedy by marriage. In 1944 his sister Kathleen was married to Deborah's brother-in-law, Billy. Poor Billy was killed in the war five weeks later, and four years later Kathleen died in an airplane crash.

In a new collection of essays, the 89-year-old Dowager Duchess recalls the arrival of the Kennedys in London just in time for the 1938 social season. "'Coming out' had a different meaning in 1938 from what it has today," she notes. Old Joe Kennedy was U.S. ambassador to London, and his nine children were a source of fascination to the peachy English debutantes who were "coming out" into society.

Jack was 21. The Dowager Duchess recalls: "He already had something about him that separated him from the crowd. He was very thin, the legacy of serious illnesses, but he put everything into the moment, which in 1938 was to enjoy himself."

I think the Duchess may be discreetly hinting that young Jack took his share of pleasures with the great beauties of that era. She adds: "My mother, watching him at a dance, said: 'I wouldn't be surprised if that young man became president of the United States.'"

When Kennedy indeed became president, the Devonshires were asked to the inauguration festivities in Washington, D.C. Deborah did not much want to accept. She had been looking forward to the last shoot of the year in Derbyshire. So tiresome, those inaugural invitations.

Once there, however, they found themselves on the Kennedy family bus. Deborah recalled: "On the bus we found [Jack's younger sister] Eunice and her husband (whose Christian name is Sargent, if you please, fearfully nice though)." The moment the bus passed through the White House gates, Eunice shouted, "Here we are!"

At the White House parade Jack Kennedy invited Deborah to stand next to him on the president's dais. Publishing her diary notes from that day, she recalls that "a man marching by in an air-force contingent broke ranks, whipped out a camera, took a photograph of the president and joined in again. Imagine a Coldstream guardsman doing the same at the Trooping of the Colour."

At the Inaugural Ball at the Armory, Kennedy saw the Devonshires in the distance and escaped his thronging admirers to clamber over seven rows of seats to say goodbye to his British relations. The Devonshires also took in a visit to the Senate, but this left a less positive impression. "Hideous place," Deborah wrote. "They each have a desk and chair, like in school."

In the very next chapter of her book, the thrills of the inauguration are followed by the despair of the funeral. The Devonshires were part of a small British delegation led by Prince Philip (husband of the Queen) that contained Prime Minister Sir Alec Douglas-Home and Leader of the Opposition Harold Wilson. In the almost empty Boeing 707, which transported them, the grief-stricken Duchess was distracted by Wilson's personal hygiene. "Such dirty fingernails it put me off my dinner," she wrote.

They arrived on Sunday, Nov. 24, to find that France's President Charles de Gaulle was behaving badly. He was the only head of state who insisted on seeing the widowed Mrs. Kennedy. (There are repeated swipes at De Gaulle in the book.)

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 18510/17/2011

Deborah visited Eunice and found her "perfectly extraordinary, laughing almost as if the thing had never happened." Shock, presumably. Bobby Kennedy's house was chaotic. He was wandering round in a dressing gown which revealed his hairy body "like an animal from top to bottom, but a very lovable face and stout legs."

The Duchess describes the shock, the emptiness, the bereavement and, most of all, the tiny mannerisms and gaffes. Amid all the solemnity a supper was held at the British embassy. The Canadian foreign minister, Paul Martin, distinguished himself when he "had to go to the lav in the middle of dinner."

At St. Matthew's Cathedral for the funeral itself there was initially no seat for Prince Philip so the Douglas-Homes had to move to make room. "I never saw so many sad faces," writes the Duchess about the Kennedy family that day. "The coffin was carried by eight soldiers. It was impossible to believe that the vital, fascinating and clever person was shut up in that box. Quite impossible." She reports that "the Scotch pipers had played very fidgety music"--and, oh yes, that she saw "that ghastly Queen of Greece with her dangling earrings."

Amid all the tears (and glorious bitching), the stoical Prince Philip retained a "stern, blue look." It was the same expression he would wear 34 years later when marching behind the coffin of his former daughter-in-law Diana in London, showing her young sons how the Windsors stare death in the face.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 18610/17/2011

[quote]They arrived on Sunday, Nov. 24, to find that France's President Charles de Gaulle was behaving badly. He was the only head of state who insisted on seeing the widowed Mrs. Kennedy. (There are repeated swipes at De Gaulle in the book.)

This is interesting. Jackie Kennedy expressed her ire at DeGaulle in the recently released Schleisinger (sp?) tapes. Being impinged upon by him at her moment of grief, no doubt, contributed to her feelings about him.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 18710/17/2011

[quote]that was heroin RFK Jr was busted for

RFK Jr. was busted for weed possession along with Bobby Shriver when they were both teenagers. Then, as an adult, RFK Jr. was busted for heroin possession.

This is why Bobby Shriver can do things like being a city councilman for Santa Monica and whatnot. And, RFK Jr. just plainly never can.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 18810/17/2011

Thanks for posting R185/R186, very interesting. Yes Bobby was like an animal.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 18910/17/2011

I was the better kisser.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 19010/17/2011

I love general pointless bitchery as much as anyone else here, but you'd have to be a real cunt of a human being to go to a funeral of a world leader and spend your time making nasty little observations about fingernail cleanliness and prime ministers having to go to the loo during dinner.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 19110/17/2011

Those nasty little observations were made well after the fact.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 19210/18/2011

They do seem to get on well, R190.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 19310/18/2011

[quote]Ethel thought... intercourse was not to be enjoyed, it was to be endured; it was a woman's duty, and the reason to do it was to have children- not for joy, or passion.

-- Jackie, Ethel, Joan: Women of Camelot

I hope Bobby and Nureyev fucked each other sore.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 19410/23/2011

I'm assuming Bobby was the top.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 19510/23/2011

"Ethel thought... intercourse was not to be enjoyed, it was to be endured; it was a woman's duty, and the reason to do it was to have children- not for joy, or passion."

And how did the author of "Jackie, Ethel, Joan: Women of Camelot" come to THAT conclusion? For a woman who thought intercourse was "a woman's duty" and "not to be enjoyed" she sure had a lot of it. If she disliked sex so much, then why didn't she tell Bobby after the 5th or 6th child "ok, that's enough, I've done my duty, we've got plenty of kids, no more sex, I don't like it, I'm done?" I doubt that Ethel Kennedy simply "endured" sex with the husband she adored.

There have been plenty of stories about Jackie being a cold fish, however. She had a lot of emotional problems which could account for her repression. In a Marilyn Monroe bio, Marilyn supposedly said that Jack Kennedy called his icy wife "the statue."

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 19610/23/2011

But this same Jackie made friends with a cardiologist local to Glen Ora. Later he wrote that she came to him for help since JFK was so insensitive in bed...

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 19710/23/2011

I heard the same story, R197, except that Jackie went to a priest.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 19810/27/2011

I could see Jackie being cold in bed.

Didn't Gore Vidal say he couldn't figure out if Jackie was at all erotic, or if moeny was her passion over all else. She had her affairs with celebrities, but that was more like stamp collecting.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 19910/27/2011

One of the Jackie O bios recounted a story of one of the crewmembers of Ari Onassis' yacht catching Ari fucking Jackie inside one of the yacht's lifeboats. She was just laying there too.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 20010/27/2011

Jackie had no personality whatsoever! I can see her totally being cold in bed. I wonder if she was closeted?

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 20110/27/2011

The more I read and hear about Jackie, the less I admire her. The only thing she did of note was to raise two decent children.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 20210/27/2011

Which was all that was expected of high social status women of that era, R202.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 20310/27/2011

"He knew that Jackie loved money more than almost – you may strike ‘almost’ – anything and her life, as Gore Vidal once observed, and was dedicated to acquiring it through marriage."

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 20412/09/2011

She lived to serve and please him. It's obvious she was great in bed and he could bang her every night, morning and noon if he so chose to. He married her for the sex, so he could blast his stud balls into her and relieve himself until he was wipped, having extracted all the cum. Bobby's balls!

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 20512/10/2011

Bobby first saw her in ``Ethel`s 20 Load Weekend`and he became obsessed`.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 20612/10/2011

Bobby was a runt who needed much...stroking.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 20712/10/2011

Ethel the movie.

Really. It's premiering at Sundance.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 20801/20/2012

They said, "Rory, you've had your fun -- it is now time to get married."

Karma again reared against the Kennedys and her Marriage-For-Appearances was punished with the death of her cousin, JFK Jr, his wife, and her sister in a plane crash.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 20901/20/2012

Lots of guys found her attractive in college.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 21001/20/2012

r209 Rory is so gay!!!

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 21101/20/2012

Who knew Rory at Brown when she ran a "production company" with Jane Fonda's daughter?

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 21201/21/2012

Did you go to college with her, R210?

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 21301/21/2012

Ethel and Rory with Taylor Swift:

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 21401/21/2012

A documentary about Ethel could be interesting; it would be better if it wasn't done by her daughter.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 21501/22/2012

I thought Ethel went to convent school and later an all girls' college, R210.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 21601/22/2012

They looked rather alike. And he might well have felt a bit insecure about that issue with his penis, although it was evidently entirely cosmetic, and didn't stop him from using it in later years.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 21701/22/2012

[all posts by tedious troll]

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 21801/22/2012

What does that mean, r217? Was it crooked? Scarred?

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 21901/22/2012

Her milkshake brought all the boys to the yard

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 22001/22/2012

Their breeding made the offspring look like rats as both were butt-ugly and she had a big nose. There...I said it!

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 22101/22/2012

David Kennedy was kinda cute, no?

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 22201/22/2012

Was David gay?

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 22301/22/2012

The Kennedy boys were raised by a cold, unloving,religious nut of a mother. It affected all the sons. In Bobby's case, I think he chose someone like his mother. Apparently all our brains are wired to do that. And we unknowingly are attraced towards someone very like our opposite sex parent or someone their opposite.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 22401/22/2012

r23 I don't know.

All the Kennedy women are very manly looking. Yuck.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 22501/22/2012

[quote]In 1948 while Bobby was seeing Ethel he started seeing actress Joan Winmill in England. He told a friend, "Ethel's fun, but she's just a girl. Joan's a real woman." He never told either of the women about the other. When his sister Jean and Ethel came over to London, he introduced Ethel as his sister's friend. Of course, Joe Kennedy was against any serious relationship with an actress and in 1949 Bobby broke it off with Joan in a letter saying he was marrying Ethel.

I knew Joe picked Jacqueline. Did he have a hand in picking all of his son's wives? Maybe, for Bobby, he said just no actresses.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 22601/22/2012

11 kids, isn't it more than likely that at least one is gay?

In any event, I recall another Kennedy thread where someone who had worked with the family gave impressions of RFK & Ethel's kids. Would love to know more from anyone else who has had contact with them.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 22702/07/2012

Why did he marry her? Simple. Trick pelvis.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 22802/07/2012

From the Jack, Bobby or Teddy thread.

Blind Item:

I saw this on another board and I wondered who datalounge thought it was. The poster never said who this Kennedy cousin is.

One of my college classmates in NY circa 1980 was a "kept boy" for one of the Kennedy cousins. He was set up in an apt on the upper west side, driven by limo to school and "monitored". He went to Martha's Vineyard every weekend in the warm weather and skiing in Europe in the winter. Never would tell us which Kennedy it was, but I have my suspicions. Whoever it was wasn't old enough (or allowed) to drive, and my classmate was a sizzling Greek guy.

by Chap O''Quiddickreply 22902/07/2012
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