Major Plot Holes
What movies have holes in their plots so large that once you think about them, the entire movie falls apart?
I'm watching Bourne Identity right now, and wondering why a highly trained super secret agent would conveniently have a little laser capsule that shines the information for his Swiss Bank safe deposit box stashed in his leg. You remember, the safe deposit box where his money, passports and guns are
But without that little plot device to get things rolling, he's just another crazy person working the fishing boats.
|by Anonymous||reply 147||02/02/2013|
Kramer Vs. Kramer----why didn't they just get joint custody?
|by Anonymous||reply 1||07/10/2011|
TITANIC... why didn't they use their cell phones to call for help? Duh!%0D
|by Anonymous||reply 2||07/10/2011|
Super 8:%0D %0D The alien is strong enough to escape the train car after the accident...but not before?%0D %0D People and dogs disappear, the Air Force shows up and practically takes over the entire town and NOBODY calls a different government official to find out what's going on, not even the keystone cops in charge of the city?%0D %0D Joseph's deputy father disappears for 2 days, but he just goes home and to bed without even worrying about him?%0D %0D Etc, etc.
|by Anonymous||reply 3||07/10/2011|
Super 8: The kids find the alien's lair and discover its been storing people to eat them (the director has confirmed this in interviews); but then the main kid, when it comes face to face with the alien, treats it like it's adorable and a potential friend.
|by Anonymous||reply 4||07/10/2011|
r2%0D Didn't you see the scene where Rose had no cell reception?
|by Anonymous||reply 5||07/10/2011|
Sixth Sense: Why didn't Bruce Willis's character notice that no one other than the kid ever spoke to or interacted with him? And don't tell me it's because he didn't notice it because the ghosts could choose what they saw, he'd still have to know what he was to choose to ignore it.
|by Anonymous||reply 6||07/10/2011|
Indiana Jones, Frigidaire, atomic blast. End of thread.
|by Anonymous||reply 7||07/10/2011|
I believe it's very well known that most ghosts suffer from tinitus.
|by Anonymous||reply 8||07/10/2011|
That's not a plot hole r7. Those movies are based on Saturday serials. The hero is meant to survive absurd situations that are unbelievable.
|by Anonymous||reply 9||07/10/2011|
Sometimes you just have to let art flow over you.
|by Anonymous||reply 10||07/10/2011|
Agreed with R6. The twist at the end ruined the movie for me. Up until then I'd become absorbed and rather enjoyed it. But when it's revealed he is a ghost, it just doesn't make any sense for the reasons R6 posted.
For example, there's a scene where the boy comes home from school and his mom and Dr. Crowe are waiting in the living room, presumably discussing Cole's case. But once you learn he was a ghost all along, how did he not realize something was wrong when he tried to talk to the mother, who wouldn't have seen him or interacted with him.
|by Anonymous||reply 11||07/10/2011|
Back to the Future: if George McFly is so successful at the end of the movie, why are they still living in the shirty Lyon Estates house?
|by Anonymous||reply 12||07/10/2011|
2012, Kate Curtis' (Amanda Pete) boyfriend (nice guy) dies horrifically and none of the characters, especially Kate, have a human reaction or any reaction at all.
|by Anonymous||reply 13||07/10/2011|
Those big flying things in LORD OF THE RINGS? If they'd flown them to Mount whatever-it's-called at the beginning of the first film, we'd have been spared nine hours of twee, lame-ass, plot-free (as opposed to event-free) dreck.
They mentioned this recently on something. Robot Chicken or something. I can't remember. I wanted to write them a thank you note.
|by Anonymous||reply 14||07/10/2011|
[quote]For example, there's a scene where the boy comes home from school and his mom and Dr. Crowe are waiting in the living room, presumably discussing Cole's case. But once you learn he was a ghost all along, how did he not realize something was wrong when he tried to talk to the mother, who wouldn't have seen him or interacted with him.
Watch that scene closely. There is NO interaction between Cole's mom and Dr. Crowe. As the scene starts they're both just sitting there. The presumption came from the viewer which is likely what Shamalayan probably had in mind all along when he shot the scene.
|by Anonymous||reply 15||07/10/2011|
The moment when the ghost unlocks the door and lets Jack out of the pantry in "The Shining."
|by Anonymous||reply 16||07/10/2011|
What movies have holes in their plots so large that once you think about them, the entire movie falls apart?
Pretty much all of them.
|by Anonymous||reply 17||07/10/2011|
Avatar. Yes, if you *really* think about it, the entire movies falls apart based on Special Relativity. According to the script, to reach Pandora it's a 6-year journey during which the travellers are kept in a state of suspended animation. Even if Pandora were orbiting a star near earth, the ship would need to travel at near light speed.
In the movie the humans frequently travel back and forth between earth and Pandora. It's kind of like the Europeans sailing to South America in the 16th century, except instead of taking 6 months it takes 6 years. The audience gets that and simply accepts it at face value. It also underpins why Pandora is so important to humans: we can travel there relatively easy and strip the planet of that vital mineral and take it back with us to earth. Just like Aztec gold!
However, travelling in space and at near light speed is entirely different and here's where the plot breaks down.
Special Relativity dictates that time slows down relative to an observer the faster one travels. This is a fact, not some unproven hypothesis. GPS would not function if it didn't take SR into account. So for the voyagers on the flight to Pandora travelling at near the speed of light, it would appear to them that it took six years to reach their destination. But during that same time more than a hundred years will have passed on earth! Same goes for anyone leaving and then hoping to return to Pandora.
|by Anonymous||reply 18||07/10/2011|
R15, the point is why didn't Bruce Willis' character figure out that he was a ghost while he was sitting there being completely ignored by the mother for however long he'd been there? Also, how did he get into the house if the mother can't see or hear him and he doesn't know he's a ghost? He couldn't knock on the door and she wouldn't have seen anyone there if he could. He, not knowing he's a ghost, couldn't walk through the wall or sneak in because it wouldn't occur to him to do so.
|by Anonymous||reply 19||07/10/2011|
LOL R12 I've often wondered that myself! Just because George McFly became a successful author the "gates" to Lyon Estates wouldn't suddenly lose the graffiti that covered them in the opening scenes!
|by Anonymous||reply 20||07/10/2011|
R14, that complaint has been around as long as the books themselves. The usual response is that the eagles are not a taxi service at the beck and call of the races of men, and that they only intervene according to their own purposes and schedule.
Make of that what you will.
|by Anonymous||reply 21||07/10/2011|
R18, seeking out plot holes in fantasy movies seems kind of lame, don't you think? Especially when the plot hole you find is based on special relativity.
|by Anonymous||reply 22||07/10/2011|
[quote]the point is why didn't Bruce Willis' character figure out that he was a ghost while he was sitting there being completely ignored by the mother for however long he'd been there?
When Cole told Dr. Crowe about being able to see dead people he mentioned that the dead "only see what they want to see". I always thought that was why Dr. Crowe never realized he was dead until the end of the movie. I know a lot of people who figured out the twist while they watched it but I wasn't one of those.
|by Anonymous||reply 23||07/10/2011|
R22, first - I was able to suspend my disbelief and enjoy the film. That's essential for pretty much EVERY film except documentaries!
Second, the OP said "once you think about them", and if you really think about space travel you can't miss the huge hole in the plot.
BTW Avatar wasn't fantasy like LOTR, it's science fiction which usually has some basis in fact/reality vs. magic in the case of LOTR or Harry Potter (or "The Force" in Star Wars).
|by Anonymous||reply 24||07/10/2011|
R6 and R11 are correct, The whole "sometimes they don't realize they're dead" thing doesn't really work, at least not the way the film depicts it.
Two other things about THE SIXTH SENSE: There's some mention of how, when a ghost is around, the live people suddenly feel very cold, but this is not done consistently throughout the movie.
Also, one thing that bothers me about all ghost movies: If ghosts do in fact exist, I imagine they would be perceived as some vague form of energy mass. I very much doubt they would be seen as wearing ordinary clothing. Of course, I understand that it wouldn't be an option to present a dead person's ghost as a naked body, but you see what I mean.
As for SUPER 8, there's a lot of stupidity to go along with the good points of that film.
|by Anonymous||reply 25||07/10/2011|
[quote]And don't tell me it's because he didn't notice it because the ghosts could choose what they saw, he'd still have to know what he was to choose to ignore it.
That's not what "they only see what they want to see" means. It means, "They ignore anything that would make them realize they are no longer alive." Bruce Willis's character was able to interact with Haley Joel Osment's, so in his mind, he was still alive... he just disregarded everything else.
|by Anonymous||reply 26||07/10/2011|
Little Oral Andy never gets a sore throat. I win!
|by Anonymous||reply 27||07/10/2011|
[quote]Of course, I understand that it wouldn't be an option to present a dead person's ghost as a naked body, but you see what I mean.%0D %0D That would have been a very different movie. Bruce Willis walking around naked talking to a little boy all the time that no one else could see.%0D %0D [quote]As for SUPER 8, there's a lot of stupidity to go along with the good points of that film.%0D %0D Too bad that the entire ending of the movie falls into the first part of that equation.%0D %0D
|by Anonymous||reply 28||07/10/2011|
R14, you're a dolt. The Ring would take over an eagle (that's what those big flying things are - did you graduate from high school?) just like it would take control of anyone other than a hobbit, and even they were susceptible in the long term.
|by Anonymous||reply 29||07/10/2011|
Thank you, R29. If only I'd stayed in high school I'd have known that magic rings work on eagles like they do on hobbits. They save that stuff for senior year, right? There is just nothing funnier than a miffed nerd.
|by Anonymous||reply 30||07/10/2011|
My theory on The Sixth Sense: Ghosts don't live in linear time. They just jump from moment to moment and don't realize that that there is lost time between these moments. So Willis started sitting in the mom's house the second the scene starts, jumping immediately from whatever his last scene was.
|by Anonymous||reply 31||07/10/2011|
Some movies are so full of holes there's really nothing there.
|by Anonymous||reply 32||07/10/2011|
Sleepless in Seattle. You discover your child is on a flight to New York City, but you decide not to call United and tell them to hold him when he gets to NYC and/or get his ass back to Seattle on the next fight.
Instead you elect to let your kid wander around NYC for hours and possibly meet a total stranger/stalker while you drive to the airport, catch a later flight, fly to NYC, and nab the kid at the top of the Empire State Building.
When you do meet up with him your primary concern is finding the stuffed bear he left on the observation deck.
|by Anonymous||reply 33||07/10/2011|
I haven't seen SLEEPLESS IN SEATTLE since it first came out (so almost 20 years), but I do recall a scene where the little boy is talking to Hanks and the boy asks him if he's gonna ejaculate all over his date. Hanks is startled and the kid says he learned about that 'cause his girl friend has cable or something. Did this scene really happen R33 or did I dream it?
|by Anonymous||reply 34||07/10/2011|
"Major Plot Holes" would make a great name for a cartoon character.
|by Anonymous||reply 35||07/10/2011|
Sister Act - when the mob is looking for Whoopi Golderbeg's character in the casino, why didn't they just say "Find the black nun".
|by Anonymous||reply 36||07/10/2011|
Titanic - why didn't they just row over to Gilligan's island?
|by Anonymous||reply 37||07/10/2011|
[quote] Second, the OP said "once you think about them", and if you really think about space travel you can't miss the huge hole in the plot.
If the movie was all about the intricacies of space travel, I guess it'd be a plot hole. But it's such a secondary detail and not essential to the real plot that nobody cares. I mean, sure Steven Hawking would probably roll his eyes at the film if he could but most of the viewing audience can let that one go.
|by Anonymous||reply 38||07/10/2011|
R28: so you mean it would be just your regular Beuce Willis home video with Aaron Carter?
|by Anonymous||reply 39||07/10/2011|
I rewatched "I, Claudius," recently. There are two characters who could be Augustus's successor, which means Livia must get rid of them
One is named Posthumus (seriously), who is the don of Agrippa and one is named Gaius. Gaius is married to Livilla, who is having an affair with Posthumus. Livia finds out about the affair and tells Livilla she is going to rat her out to Augustus. Livilla pleads with Livia not to do this. Livia then concocts a plan where Livilla sets up a tryst with Posthumus and then screams rape.
Posthumus goes to Claudius and tells him is arrested and goes before Augustus. He says he had been having an affair with Livilla for a while and accuses Livia of being behind it all, and gives a list of people who were Augustus's successors who either died or were banished. He is then captured by soldiers and is brought before Augustus He begs Augustus to open his eyes to the fact that everyone around Augustus -- except for Livia and Tiberius -- dies.
Augustus has a fit and banishes Posthumus.
Claudius later tells his brother what Posthumus told him. His brother asked if Augustus knows what Posthumus said. Claudius says he doesn't know. Claudius's brother tells Augustus and suddenly Augustus becomes suspicious of Livia. He also visits Claudius and tells him he is not the fool he thought he was. Augustus then makes a "secret" visit to Posthumus in exile and tells him to wait just a bit --- he is going to undo the banishment when he gets back to Rome. Livia poisons Augustus before he returns to Rome and Posthumus is killed by Tiberius's men
The thing is -- Posthumus told Augustus the same thing he told Claudius. That he was having an affair with Livilla, that Livilla set him up and that Livia was behind it all. Why did Augustus suddenly find the information so much more credible when Claudius's brother told Augustus what Posthumus had said?
Made no sense.
|by Anonymous||reply 40||07/10/2011|
Hope that was worth it, R40.
|by Anonymous||reply 41||07/10/2011|
No offense, R40, but you are terrible at retelling plots.
|by Anonymous||reply 42||07/10/2011|
r13, I said the exact same thing about Independence Day. Will Smith is all cocky and triumphant, spouting clever one-liners like, "Now that's what I call a close encounter"...um, excuse me, your best friend in the world Harry Connick Jr just died and you are lighting up a stogey in triumph?
Even worse at the end when the survivors are all happy and celebrating July 4th...having just lost half the world's population.
|by Anonymous||reply 43||07/10/2011|
Fatal Attraction-----when Michael Douglas slept with that tranny with the bad perm
|by Anonymous||reply 44||07/10/2011|
Thanks for spoiling the whole movie for me, r33!!!
|by Anonymous||reply 45||07/11/2011|
[quote] the point is why didn't Bruce Willis' character figure out that he was a ghost while he was sitting there being completely ignored by the mother for however long he'd been there? Also, how did he get into the house if the mother can't see or hear him and he doesn't know he's a ghost?
I agree with R31. Their existence is like a dream. In a dream, you go from one situation to another and there is usually no explanation as to how you're traveling. The slave ghost, the shot-in-the head and half his face missing boy ghost, the burned up female ghost - if they were all as aware of reality as humans were they would notice things like all blacks aren't slaves anymore and I'm missing half my face.
|by Anonymous||reply 46||07/11/2011|
Second transformers movie. They run out the back door of the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum and they're in some desert airplane dump. In the same movie, Petra, Jordan and the Great Pyramids of Giza appear to be within walking distance of each other.
|by Anonymous||reply 47||07/11/2011|
More plot holes - from a truly great movie - "All About Eve."
Margo Channing is so tempestuous and so focused on self-preservation that she keeps Eve around even when it's clear what's going on. Even if Eve's motives had been pure, Margo was so protective of her younger man that she most probably would have fired Eve at the "fasten your seat belts" party, if not before. Instead, she actually gets Eve a job with her producer.
Even more implausible: Eve tells Karen Richards that she doesn't have enough to do in her job, so could she be Margo's understudy? This not only sets off no alarm bells with anyone, but the idea that a personal assistant with no known acting experience could become an understudy to Broadway's biggest star seems totally natural to everyone involved.
|by Anonymous||reply 48||07/11/2011|
Sing it, sister. The pot holes on Franklin broke my car's vagina bone.
|by Anonymous||reply 49||07/11/2011|
Another plot hole in ALL ABOUT EVE is how the team of writer, director and star put up a hit show in one season and immediately launch into a second collaboration the following season. Even the most prolific stage writers take a year or more after one play to write or complete another. Also, after working together on a project, big names in the theater usually take a break from each other and work with other people before teaming up again, if ever. In ALL ABOUT EVE the creative trio appear to grind out annual shows like sausages.
|by Anonymous||reply 50||07/11/2011|
R6 and R11 are simpletons. You're the reason most movies cater to the lowest IQ and over-explain everything.
|by Anonymous||reply 51||07/11/2011|
R6 and R11 are simpletons and prime examples of why so many movies are dumbed down.
|by Anonymous||reply 52||07/11/2011|
Limitless. Bradley Cooper's character is super stupid for someone with a four-digit IQ. Entertaining movie, but really, he must've been a rock before he took those pills.
|by Anonymous||reply 53||07/11/2011|
R40 -- Augustus doesn't believe Posthumus because he is in a state of rage against Posthumus (whose bad reputation made the rape charge seem plausible) when the younger man blurts out the facts. No one had ever dared to voice the horrid truth about Livia to the emperor's face before. Augustus had not anticipated such treachery from his wife. For the moment he can only deny reality and sentence Posthumus as if he were guilty.
Having had years to ponder the evidence, Augustus is more open to the terrible subject when Claudius's brother, Germanicus, speaks to him. By this time his curiosity has become suspicion and he is hungry for any details he can get from the younger men.
|by Anonymous||reply 54||07/11/2011|
"Super 8": why were the alien and his ship even being transported in the first place? Where was he being taken after being in a secure, super secret location for decades?
|by Anonymous||reply 55||07/11/2011|
At the end of The Wizard of Oz, Glinda reveals she knew the secret of the ruby slippers all the time, but says Dorothy wouldn't have believed her. Yet she didn't have a problem thinking Dorothy would believe the whole yellow brick road story... which turned out to be wrong.
Of course, the other plot hole was that Dorothy would want to leave a wonderful place like Oz and go back to a horrible dirt farm where they were going to kill her dog, which is the reason she left home in the first place.
|by Anonymous||reply 56||07/11/2011|
Just watched a gay movie called "Is It Just Me?" In the beginning, a guy meets another guy on a gay chat site, and is just looking for a relationship. The other guy is looking for the same, and they chat about a lot of things. After they're done talking, the other guy signs out, and as the first guy goes to sign out, he notices he has been chatting under his roommate's account the whole time (the roommate is a super-hot go-go boy, while the other guy is more average). So the guy realizes the other guy think's he's super-hot, based on his roommate's profile pic. The humongous hole? They were chatting for 6 hours. I'm not sure I could chat for 6 hours with someone in a chat room and not notice that my roommate's account name is showing up EVERY TIME I TYPE SOMETHING.
|by Anonymous||reply 57||07/11/2011|
This applies to dozens of science fiction movies:
Aliens have technology which is sufficiently advanced so that they can travel vast inter-stellar distances but the targeting system of their weaponry is so bad that humans can outrun or zigzag around their little death rays?
Any advanced civilization intent on invading the planet and destroying the populace is going to have these things figured out.
And they would have a foolproof plan to eliminate the entire population with very efficient weapons of mass destruction, most likely biological.
Signs - Water? Seriously? Water?
Star Wars - Oh, where to begin?
Independence Day - The tracking systems on those alien fighters *sucked*
Terminator - Time travel must fuck with the machine's circuitry because it can't aim for shit
War of the Worlds - They didn't send an advance team?
|by Anonymous||reply 58||07/11/2011|
[quote] go back to a horrible dirt farm where they were going to kill her dog, which is the reason she left home in the first place.
That's always bothered me. If it's all a dream then Toto is still completely fucked at the end.
It also bothers me that the evil banker in Wonderful Life steals the Bailey's money and apparently gets away with it.
|by Anonymous||reply 59||07/11/2011|
Speaking of the Bourne films, one (they all blur together) cracked me up when Jason Bourne rushed into a New York Presbyterian Hospital building on First and 72nd (no such building), ran to the roof and leapt into the crystal clear (!!!!) waters of the East River, two blocks away.
|by Anonymous||reply 60||07/11/2011|
Terminator. The only reason either John Connor or the machines exist is because the Terminator went back in time, and the only reason the Terminator went back in time is because the machines and John Connor exist. Get it? Lol
|by Anonymous||reply 61||07/11/2011|
Most of the, including OP's example, aren't plot holes but mere plot contrivances.
|by Anonymous||reply 62||07/11/2011|
R62 is right. %0D %0D And Back to the Future has an actual major PLOT HOLE. Marty goes back to 1955 and tells Doc he's stranded because the car in 1985 ran out of fuel. All 1955 Doc has to do to solve the problem is make sure to remember to keep extra plutonium in the car in 1985 and the whole issue is resolved and Marty never gets stranded.
|by Anonymous||reply 63||07/11/2011|
what's the difference, R62?%0D
|by Anonymous||reply 64||07/11/2011|
Another plot hole in the Back to the Future Series is that Biff the villain finds the sports records book and uses it to build a business empire based on gambling wins.
But as it is established that changing one part of the past changes all of the future then surely the very act of his becoming a sports-betting mogul should have changed the results of all those sporting events rendering his ability to place winning bets invalid.
|by Anonymous||reply 65||07/11/2011|
I thought Back to the Future was racist when, to show how "degraded" the future is, they make Marty"s housing development a black neighborhood.
|by Anonymous||reply 66||07/11/2011|
Not a plot hole, but in TWISTER they used a lot of special effects (which were pretty sucky), but never once did any of the approaching tornadoes sound like a freight train. I mean seriously, what's the one consistent thing a person who has lived through a tornado says? "it sounded like a freight train was coming."
Also, Helen Cunt's hair was almost always blowing in the wrong direction.
|by Anonymous||reply 67||07/11/2011|
"Even more implausible: Eve tells Karen Richards that she doesn't have enough to do in her job, so could she be Margo's understudy? This not only sets off no alarm bells with anyone, but the idea that a personal assistant with no known acting experience could become an understudy to Broadway's biggest star seems totally natural to everyone involved."%0D %0D %0D I always wondered about this, too%0D %0D
|by Anonymous||reply 68||07/11/2011|
Gladiator%0D %0D %0D The second most powerful person in the Roman Empire turns into a sniveling pussy when his family gets murdered.
|by Anonymous||reply 69||07/11/2011|
Speaking of WAR OF THE WORLDS (the horrible Tom Cruise version): The idea that the machines had been buried for centuries, waiting to attack the human race and take over the world, is kind of cool in a way. But...what did they gain by waiting? And wouldn't it have been even easier for them to take over the world in the Stone Age, for example, when humans had no weapons technology at all with which to fight them?
Come to think of it, why exactly would any aliens in any movie want to take over our world rather than just take over a planet with no life on it? The only reasonable explanation is that they'd want to enslave the human race, but I don't believe WAR OF THE WORLD implies that's what they're planning to do.
|by Anonymous||reply 70||07/11/2011|
You're right on the money, R70. But for some reason, the randomness of it all made it very scary for me for the two hours I was in the theatre.
|by Anonymous||reply 71||07/11/2011|
r19 - The same reason Bruce Willis thinks his wife is having an affair -- he is so absorbed in his work that he barely notices her OR the things happening around him. It serves two purposes -- a wake-up call that he is totally self-absorbed and the tragic reality that now it is too late to do anything about it.
|by Anonymous||reply 72||07/11/2011|
The Sixth Sense apologists are basically proving my point--there's entirely too much effort required on the part of the audience to plug up the holes in the plot. You shouldn't have to come up with ridiculous theories about the timelines "lived" by ghosts in order to make sense of a movie, no matter how in love with the final twist you happen to be.%0D %0D No wonder Shyamalan thinks he's entitled to whatever nonsense he throws on screen--he's accustomed to audiences doing his work for him.
|by Anonymous||reply 73||07/11/2011|
You people need to learn what a plot hole is. R62 is right. Take R70 for example. Just because they didn't give a full explanation doesn't mean it's a plot hole. For that matter he's not even really talking about the plot.
|by Anonymous||reply 74||07/11/2011|
Eve Harrington had said she'd done some community theater or something and Margo NEVER missed a performance so her being M's understudy never bothered me as much as others.%0D %0D Now, expecting two sex machines like Lloyd and Karen sleeping separate beds?%0D %0D That was stretching things too far.%0D %0D
|by Anonymous||reply 75||07/11/2011|
I agree with R75.%0D %0D ... and this is especially on "old Broadway"... that is 50s and earlier.%0D %0D Stage managers, assistant stage managers, dressers, assistant directors, company secretaries and other production staff were often given responsiblity for understudying roles. (Not stand-bys, which is a different circumstance).%0D %0D These "crew" staffers were often actors doing these jobs waiting to break into acting. (Either that or veteran performers who were not ordinarily cast-able but could fill in a pinch.)%0D %0D In addition, actors in that time did not excuse themselves from performance unless utterly unable to. Even the biggest stars went on while sick or injured... carrying on with fever or nausea or hobbled with sprains or breaks. %0D %0D This is what makes reviewers showing up for Eve's understudy performance a significant plot turn in the film.%0D %0D
|by Anonymous||reply 76||07/11/2011|
[quote]Come to think of it, why exactly would any aliens in any movie want to take over our world rather than just take over a planet with no life on it? The only reasonable explanation is that they'd want to enslave the human race, but I don't believe WAR OF THE WORLD implies that's what they're planning to do.
Didn't they consume humans and regurgitate them as red goo?
|by Anonymous||reply 77||07/12/2011|
r76, yep, that is exactly true. And Eve had wormed her way into the world of the "power brokers," the star, star's wife, playwright. They had some clout and could, apparently, make such unilateral decisions as having Eve be an understudy. That is, no matter HOW strange that might have seemed to the "outside world." I felt that was simply an example of "who you know" and an example of Eve's conniving and calculation.
The biggest plot hole in that film for me was the fact that Karen dragged Eve in to meet Margo to BEGIN with and had to CONVINCE Margo to see her. Why did she have any investment in the meeting? She would simply have said, "Oh, alright" and then peeped her head outside the dressing room door and told Eve to scram with some polite excuse. Instead, she acted like Eve's AGENT or something and had to talk Margo into seeing her! And then, even after you get past THAT hurdle, Margo asks Eve to STAY her dressing room ("Don't go...) Made no sense at all. She would have said hello to Eve, maybe given her an autograph and sent the bitch on her way. I mean, the dressing room was full of activity, Bill was getting ready to leave for L.A. and they all just stop dead and listen to Eve's contrived story?
|by Anonymous||reply 78||09/17/2011|
This isn't really a plot hole either, but every time I see BODY HEAT, I keep thinking once Ned Racine gets hold of the yearbook that shows Matty was really Mary Ann Simpson, couldn't that help him at least get a new trial, even if they couldn't find Matty or the money? It just aggravates me.
|by Anonymous||reply 79||09/17/2011|
I like Charlie Kelly's explanation of The Sixth Sense twist.
|by Anonymous||reply 80||09/18/2011|
[quote] Back to the Future: if George McFly is so successful at the end of the movie, why are they still living in the shirty Lyon Estates house?
Even worse is why is he employing the guy who tried to rape his wife at the highschool dance?
Oh, and what ever happened to they terrorists from the beginning of the movie who shot Doc Brown?
|by Anonymous||reply 81||09/18/2011|
Blanche could have yelled out the window instead of throwing the note.
Elvira could have reported the elder abuse to the authorities.
No one would die from starvation in such a short amount of time.
Blanche would have never made it down the stairs to the phone.
If you're serving up a dead rat to terrorize someone, why garnish the platter with fresh tomato slices?
|by Anonymous||reply 82||09/18/2011|
While "Ginger" is arguably a spice, "Scary" "Sporty" "Posh" and "Baby" clearly are not.
|by Anonymous||reply 83||09/18/2011|
Another "Baby Jane:" Why would Blance even bother to stop and pick up the phone after she crawled down the stairs? When I watch that scene I'm like "Bitch, keep crawling and get out that front door, get out on the sidewalk and scream for help!"
Also, "Body Heat:" Not a single person has air conditioning in this movie, but wasn't air conditioning pretty standard in Florida by 1981? Most homes and businesses had it by then, didn't they? Certainly a man as wealthy as Maddie's husband would have had a/c in that big-ass mansion.
|by Anonymous||reply 84||09/18/2011|
After their mother has been murdered, all the children in THE NIGHT OF THE HUNTER have to do is go to the law (or to any sympathetic adult) and inform them their step-father is trying to harm them. Instead they run off into the wild heading away from all assistance, leaving a trail for their tormentor to follow unhampered.
|by Anonymous||reply 85||09/18/2011|
R81, didnt the terrorists crash their bus into a newstand or something and die?
I agree about hiring Biff to wash your car.
|by Anonymous||reply 86||09/18/2011|
“all the children in THE NIGHT OF THE HUNTER have to do is go to the law (or to any sympathetic adult) and inform them their step-father is trying to harm them.”
Well, no. the Law in a place like that was used to turning a blind eye to things like lynching and domestic abuse, so it’s likely the kids would have been told to go home and mind their stepdaddy. And if they were believed, they’d be afraid of being put in “a home”, an orphanage or juvy. I know, they didn’t have a better plan, they didn’t have a plan at all. They were dumb, frightened kids.
|by Anonymous||reply 87||09/18/2011|
R18- when does Avatar ever have a scene on Earth?
|by Anonymous||reply 88||09/18/2011|
R43- Will Smith is celebrating avenging his friend's killer. And Of course everyone is celebrating at the end. Sure, millions died but they saved the future of mankind. It was a horrible war but they won and it's a relief and call to celebrate when you finally achieve victory,
R50- back then, there were people who DID churn out a new play every year. Kinda like Woody Allen still churns out a new movie every year.
|by Anonymous||reply 89||09/18/2011|
Rebecca: I realize Max can't tell the narrator he killed Rebecca, but why can't he tell her they didn't get along? And why doesn't the narrator explain to Max (after he finally tells her the truth about Rebecca) that Mrs. Danvers tried to get her to jump out the window and get her ass fired? Why would anyone want to keep her around for even a second longer after that?
|by Anonymous||reply 90||09/18/2011|
R81- agreed about BTTF. I have no idea why the McFlys would have Biff working for them. Makes no sense. Did OJ ever go to work for the Goldmans?
|by Anonymous||reply 91||09/18/2011|
[quote]I have no idea why the McFlys would have Biff working for them. Makes no sense. Did OJ ever go to work for the Goldmans?
Boo! Hiss! Boo!
|by Anonymous||reply 92||09/19/2011|
The Wizard of Oz plot hole happened because as per the book there should have been 2 good witches (of the North and South, to match the wicked witches of West and East), but in the movie they conflated them into Glinda, who appears at the start and finish, instead of just at the end.
|by Anonymous||reply 93||09/19/2011|
Speaking of the Wizard of Oz... knowing that water can kill her, why does the Wicked Witch of the West have a huge open bucket of it just sitting around?? Sounds like an accident waiting to happen to me.
|by Anonymous||reply 94||09/19/2011|
[quote]At the end of The Wizard of Oz, Glinda reveals she knew the secret of the ruby slippers all the time, but says Dorothy wouldn't have believed her. Yet she didn't have a problem thinking Dorothy would believe the whole yellow brick road story... which turned out to be wrong.
Glinda knows that Dorothy believes in the Yellow Brick Road because she can see it with her eyes. In order to make the slippers work Dorothy has to learn how to see things with her heart. She is a selfish runaway who comes to understand her place in the world by learning to consider the needs of others. This is a universal lesson. Even a loving maternal figure can't bestow wisdom simply by giving away an answer.
|by Anonymous||reply 95||09/20/2011|
In Independence Day, destruction of the aliens depended on downloading a virus into the alien's computer systems. Isn't it extremely farfetched to believe that aliens would have computer systems that we humans could easily download a virus into? Let's say the alien's technology was 100% different from ours, plus perhaps 10,000 years more advanced. And we could just put a homemade virus into it, and it would be accepted and start destroying the code? Is this a plot contrivance or a hole?
I went along with the fun, but thought, "This is really silly".
But I liked Will Smith's swagger at the end with a big stogie in his mouth. I wanted to suck his cock.
|by Anonymous||reply 96||09/20/2011|
In Lord of the Rings (a classic trilogy that will outlive us all), why didn't they just send the ring back to Mordor via FedEx. I know from experience that they will do just about anything to get the package to the right place. I am sure the FedEx guy would have had no problem throwing the dang ring into the volcano lava. I also thought Boromir and Aragorn were very masculine gays. When Boromir lay dieing from arrow wounds, Aragorn gives him a kiss on the forehead. It seemed obvious that Borimir was expecting much more - perhaps even a little tongue action as he died.
|by Anonymous||reply 97||09/20/2011|
I completely agree with the posters complaining about Alien films. They annoy the fuck out of me because we have to accept a race advanced enough to come up with freakin interstellar travel is incredibly incompetent and can easily be defeated by man.
No. Any race that much further advanced than our own would wipe us out. It is the equivalent of our current army fighting some nomadic hunter gatherers with spears as weapons.
I know you are just supposed to enjoy the fun action but it simply bugs the fuck out of me because it is completely absurd.
|by Anonymous||reply 98||09/20/2011|
Jurassic Park-we are supposed to believe that some 12-13 year old little girl can hack into a top security system?
|by Anonymous||reply 100||09/20/2011|
R98. I agree. We don't declare war on ants or scorpion or other pests. Instead the bug spray man comes out and sprays the base boards and kills them all with poisonous chemicals.Eventually there may be species specific fatal diseases that would be sprayed on the insects.
Like CONTAGION, the human race could easily be taken out without any fighting at all. The aliens could simply engineer a virus that would cause almost immediate death, would spread by air, and kill billions within a day. Any lucky stragglers or people deep in underground military bases could be dealt with in the same way later. These movies of aliens just blowing up our real estate are very silly, and an extremely slow way to colonize Earth. First they turn it into a toxic wasteland?
|by Anonymous||reply 101||09/20/2011|
Harry Potter. A little time travel would have solved all their troubles.
|by Anonymous||reply 102||09/20/2011|
Want to re-post an earlier message regarding "Boys in the Band" -- because nobody has ever given me a good try explaining that big plothole.
But first... I have never understood (and wondered how others forgave) Michelle Williams' big freakout in the kitchen in "Brokeback Mountain". Regarding the note in the fishing gear and how she has "caught" Ennis and his fuck buddy. "There were no fish!" or whatever.
Not only did I hate this scene on its own terms -- but did the whole world, including Michelle, forget she saw her husband in a deep kiss/embrace with said buddy just a reel or two before? Wasn't the jig up then? Why the charade with the fishing gear? So weird to me... and even more weird that nobody else seemed to care.
(Loved a lot of that movie, found myself giggling at bad moments like this though).
|by Anonymous||reply 103||09/20/2011|
My longtime "Boys in the Band" question:
No matter how much I love the movie, this still makes me nuts -- why sober Michael warns Donald early (and later the others) that roomie Allen is STRAIGHT so no camping. And then just a bit later he reveals all this dirt on Allen and the third friend, Justin, and not just them having been together one time (but "SEVERAL TIMES!!!). At the very least, wouldn't this change what Michael said to best friend Donald earlier -- "He says he's straight but I heard/I know/whatever..."
I know, I know, there'd be no movie/play without this. But...
(Did it bug anyone else? Another dramaturgist maybe? And is it even like this in the play?)
|by Anonymous||reply 104||09/20/2011|
[quote]Not only did I hate this scene on its own terms -- but did the whole world, including Michelle, forget she saw her husband in a deep kiss/embrace with said buddy just a reel or two before? Wasn't the jig up then? Why the charade with the fishing gear? So weird to me... and even more weird that nobody else seemed to care.
True, but, times were different, and these were simple folk at best.
And years of Jerry Springer have taught us all that simple folk will put up with years of crap without connecting the dots under their noses.
Or worse, they will totally overlook one huge red flag and go crazy at another, usually blaming the incomer, rather than the cheatin' spouse.
|by Anonymous||reply 105||09/20/2011|
Also she was still in shock at seeing the kiss and the fishing tackle just 'confirmed' it even more, when she then lost it.
Plus the knowledge that Heath and Jake looked sexier at it than Heath and herself.
That can't have helped.
|by Anonymous||reply 106||09/20/2011|
R104, as I recall, Michelle had this big scene AFTER SHE REMARRIED and had simply invited her "ex" to thanksgiving dinner. So after she saw the incredible kiss (Nothing hotter than 2 cowboys kissing) she did eventually divorce him. But it sounds like she was so ashamed and disgusted to give the real reason in the divorce papers. So she had all this pent up rage about the real reason for the divorce that finally came out a year or 2 later at the Thanksgiving dinner. I think she said something about how all the fishing gear still had the tags on it, so it had never been used on all the "fishing trips" he took to a nearby hotel to fuck with his buddy.
We must, as someone said, remember that this was supposed to take place back in the 70's, and was in Texas, I think. People down there are still about 2 decades behind the rest of the country, so their antiquated reactionary responses to gay situations are understandable.
For example, my parents have known I am gay since I was 16. But I just went home because my truly favorite Aunt is dieing. She said "You are so handsome (sorry, but she did), when are you going to get married and make some handsome little boys?" I was totally shocked. 12 years had gone by and my mother had been too ashamed to tell her 1 and only sister about my sexuality. I left there realizing how incredibly ashamed my parents were of me. Anyway, I related totally to Brokeback Mountain. I fantasize that the two guys got together after the divorce, which would have been a happy ending. But homophobia kept them apart (killed one of them).
Sad story, which is why I own it on DVD but don't watch it.
|by Anonymous||reply 107||09/20/2011|
'Flightplan' is a movie with some dialogue built around a series of plotholes.
I hardly know where to begin, but the premise is that super-smart, super sophisticated terrorists design a scheme which entirely relies on a whole plane of passengers not noticing a child passenger nor the kidnapping of that child. FURTHER, the terrorists assume that the mother of the child will specifically look for that child in her dead husband's digitally sealed coffin.
Why would she look for her child there? No reason other than that the plot demands it. The terrorists need her to open the casket so they can swoop in and take some bombs that they have concealed there. (After she opens it, we need to also make sure she doesn't just close it right away).
It makes absolutely no sense that the terrorists need this whole big crazy scheme to get the casket open. Considering that they hid the bombs in the casket in the first place, AND that the mortician was involved in the scheme, they could have just: videotaped her punching in the code; added an additional workable code to the casket; overlay the keypad with a fake keypad that would allow them to punch in a code later; not worry about the damn code and just open the casket with a set of tools.
It was a really dumb movie, and all the plot holes irritated me as I watching the movie, totally ruining the experience.
|by Anonymous||reply 108||09/20/2011|
R108, that reminds me of the foolishness of the plot in VERTIGO where a convoluted criminal caper depends of predicting the exact behavior of Jimmy Stewart based on his psychological profile.
|by Anonymous||reply 109||09/20/2011|
Sorry, R109 but Vertigo is exempt. It totally deserves its suspension of disbelief.
|by Anonymous||reply 110||09/20/2011|
Dawson's 50 Load Weekend.
The hole WAS the plot.
|by Anonymous||reply 111||09/20/2011|
Beach Blanket Bingo left me quite confused.
|by Anonymous||reply 112||09/20/2011|
[R96] The computer virus is a nod to the original story "War of the Worlds" where the aliens, not used to the diseases on our world, all die of the flu.
|by Anonymous||reply 113||09/20/2011|
R113, I thought they died of venereal disease. I assumed there was some kinky sex going on when they sucked people up into their pods, before then turning them into a bloody soup.
|by Anonymous||reply 114||09/20/2011|
Slightly OT, but I cannot believe how often that old "Boys In the Band" movie comes up on Datalounge. Not a single gay man I know in the real world ever talks about it.
|by Anonymous||reply 115||09/20/2011|
Who shall we select to smuggle money into Nazi Germany? A famous, anti-fascist Jew? Why yes! That's the obvious choice, isn't it?
|by Anonymous||reply 116||09/20/2011|
"The Game" with Michael Douglas and Sean Penn is similar to what r109 says about "Vertigo" - it's a fun movie but it doesn't really hold up to scrutiny. Everything that happens builds upon Michael Douglas's actions/reactions and the assumptions he makes but there's no way anyone could really anticipate exactly what he would do or when.
|by Anonymous||reply 117||09/20/2011|
R115, it must be the eldergays....I watched Boys In the Band on TV one day and was thoroughly disgusted. This was practically an anti-gay propaganda film. All the gay men were self-loathing and ugly (inside and out). It was enough to drive a gay man in the 50's to suicide, thinking he would end up an old self-hating pansy like this horrid little coven of witches. Perhaps there is just a generational abyss, but this movie and all copies should be burned.
|by Anonymous||reply 118||09/20/2011|
r116, Lillian Hellman apparently made up the whole story, even though she presented it as the truth.
|by Anonymous||reply 119||09/20/2011|
Totally agree, R118. I'm in my early 30s and caught "Boys in the Band" on some cable channel and was just like "what a piece of shit, those men are all disgusting" and never gave it much thought after that. I'm always surprised about how many threads there are on here, and every scene is analyzed. It really is a generational thing. Like I said, I never hear any gay men in the real world talk about this film, ever, but going by DL you'd think it's a modern classic. Whatever.
|by Anonymous||reply 120||09/20/2011|
R88 I realize Avatar was a long film but you'll recall near the beginning the flashback scene where Sam Worthington's character recalls the shooting death of his twin brother. I'm pretty sure that took place on planet Earth.
|by Anonymous||reply 121||09/20/2011|
R120, for eldergays to obsess on The Boys in the Band is similar to Jews who obsess on some anti-jew Nazi film from WW2. It makes no sense unless these elder gays actually see themselves in the same self-loathing manner. This film is pure anti-gay propaganda to ensure all audiences see them as self-loathing and pathetic at best. An awful piece of shit, hear me, elder gays!!!!
I wonder why none of the elder gays have mentioned ROPE, a Hitchcock thriller in 1948 where 2 gay elitist men live together and look down on just about everyone else due to their wealth and breeding. They ponder what it would feel like to murder one of their inferior classmates from university, then hide his body in a piece of furniture and have a party over his dead body (secretly amused that his fiance is taking food from trays set up atop the box containing the body). In the end they are caught when their nihilist college professor (Jimmy Stewart) comes to their opulent penthouse and they confess their crime, thinking he would join them in their elitist enjoyment of the crime. Instead he is shocked and calls the police.
But both actors were gay, one notoriously so for the times and was Leonard Bernstein's lover for a time.
|by Anonymous||reply 122||09/20/2011|
[quote] Harry Potter. A little time travel would have solved all their troubles.
I'm sorry but time travel is only for making time to take more classes (and maybe a small good deed). It should not be used to save the world or anything like that.
|by Anonymous||reply 123||09/20/2011|
One of Agatha Christie's Poirot stories ("Murder in Mesopotamia," I think) had a character who was so unobservant that she was married twice and never noticed that both husbands were the same man.
Well, if you can swallow that, the rest of Poirot's explanation makes perfect sense.
It's not just a bad TV adaptation, either. The book is the same.
|by Anonymous||reply 124||09/20/2011|
Here we fuckin' go again...
I am not an eldergay yet (though on my way) but I can still appreciate "Boys in the Band" for its place in (a) history as the first gay piece on Broadway, (b) cinematic history as it's brilliantly acted and brilliantly directed by Friedkin, almost all on one set, and was a groundbreaker there too, a huge influence on my career and (c) its accuracy as a period piece for better and worse, not romanticized or politically correct.
At the very least, you younger guys need to watch it as a tale of what life was like when gay was still considered a disease and a crime and all the things that were changed for your benefit. The guys are flawed but have each other and there is joy mixed in with the anger so I don't even find it offensive.
Still, poor Mart Crowley, all these years later, gets reviled for writing self-loathing gay men? Like Larry Kramer, he was yet another artist who took major risk (*Natalie Wood kindly helped push him) and PAVED THE FUCKING WAY for everyone so you could see yourselves on film and on stage and on TV and be treated as human beings, not freaks.
I do realize, however, that some of you who dismiss "Boys in the Band" also dismiss "Catcher in the Rye" or "Notes from the Underground" or "Dolls" or Patti Smith or any other "eldergay" stuff -- and it's your loss. The world didn't begin in 1990, twinks.
|by Anonymous||reply 125||09/20/2011|
[quote](a) history as the first gay piece on Broadway,
Its original run was in an Off-Broadway house. THE BOYS IN THE BAND has never played on Broadway.
|by Anonymous||reply 126||09/21/2011|
Just a note to the baby gays. Boys in the Band is fairly accurate at depicting gay men of a certain time and place. I lived in the West Village during the 1980s and went to a few parties that *were* Boys in the Band (complete with line dancing!) The author is gay, and he knew what he was writing about.
|by Anonymous||reply 127||09/21/2011|
We are the only gays. Things began with us and, provided we proceed unchecked, they'll end with us, too.
Don't bore us with your movies about gay lives that aren't ours. If you do, you're old....I mean an "eldergay"! Get it? Isn't that clever? ELDERGAY!!! lulz
|by Anonymous||reply 128||09/21/2011|
What was that movie bum night shylaman - the village? Christ that was riddled with holes.
|by Anonymous||reply 129||02/01/2013|
As long as there are so many posts about The Wizard of Oz, I have NEVER understood Dorothy's "lesson." "If I ever go searching for my heart's desire again, I won't look any further than my own back yard. Because if it isn't there, I never really lost it at all." What the hell does that mean?
|by Anonymous||reply 130||02/01/2013|
R122 Rope was based on Leopold and Loeb.
|by Anonymous||reply 131||02/01/2013|
R125 wasn't Mart Crowley RJ's assistant?
|by Anonymous||reply 132||02/01/2013|
Magic Mike -- there was no magic involved!
|by Anonymous||reply 133||02/02/2013|
I've always wondered about The Wizard of Oz, if the tornado was real does that mean the evil neighbor lady was really sucked up and presumably killed by it?
|by Anonymous||reply 134||02/02/2013|
I know it's a dumb 80s fantasy but in Xanadu why does an omnipotent and ancient goddess seem to be completely naive about human beings even though she was created to inspire them thousands of years before?
|by Anonymous||reply 135||02/02/2013|
R130, yeah, that never made much sense to me, either. The first sentence makes sense, implying that everything she could ever want is right at home. But the second part always confused me. If "what" isn't there?
|by Anonymous||reply 136||02/02/2013|
R64, you're confused, honey. Juliet was the one in the deep sleep that made her look almost corpselike. Romeo arrived before she was expected to awaken, plus he never got Friar Lawrence's message about the plan he and Juliet cooked up, so he mistook her for dead. Actually, he'd heard from his servant Balthazar that Juliet was dead and he went back to Verona, with poison in hand, so that he could die by her side. But after he takes the poison and dies, Juliet wakes up. She tries to rouse him, to no avail, and then attempts to drink the rest of the poison, but here's none left. That's when she takes his dagger and stabs herself. Not really a plot hole.
|by Anonymous||reply 137||02/02/2013|
[quote]At the end of The Wizard of Oz, Glinda reveals she knew the secret of the ruby slippers all the time, but says Dorothy wouldn't have believed her.
Mad TV did a skit on this.
|by Anonymous||reply 138||02/02/2013|
As much as I enjoyed Skyfall (saw it twice) it was full of holes:
Why didn't Moneypenny take a shot at the bad guy while she was driving next to the train?
Why did M and the caretaker use flashlights which merely alerted Silva to their whereabouts?
Where was the caretaker when Silva has M in a tight embrace? The gun wasn't on him anymore, and he could have shot Silva right then and there.
Why didn't Silva take a second or third shot at M when he burst into the hearings? She was right there, on the floor. He could have easily killed her and Ralph Fiennes with no trouble.
|by Anonymous||reply 139||02/02/2013|
[quote]I have never understood (and wondered how others forgave) Michelle Williams' big freakout in the kitchen in "Brokeback Mountain". Regarding the note in the fishing gear and how she has "caught" Ennis and his fuck buddy. "There were no fish!" or whatever.
[quote]Not only did I hate this scene on its own terms -- but did the whole world, including Michelle, forget she saw her husband in a deep kiss/embrace with said buddy just a reel or two before? Wasn't the jig up then? Why the charade with the fishing gear?
I know this post was from 16 months ago, and there's little point in replying to it, but in case the poster is still reading this... The note in the fishing tackle box was meant to confirm that he was lying about going fishing, something concrete she could use to establish a pattern of lying about what he was up to. Bu† I see your point: why couldn't she have dropped the bomb on him that she saw them kissing?
|by Anonymous||reply 140||02/02/2013|
I have no idea how I did that.
|by Anonymous||reply 141||02/02/2013|
"Vertigo" strains belief in the opening scene. We see a well into middle age Jimmy Stewart hanging from a rooftop ledge--right after a partner falls to his death--as the screen fades to black. There's no way he could have climbed back up or hung there until help arrived. Please watch the scene for a clear understanding of the predicament he was in if you have any doubt.
|by Anonymous||reply 142||02/02/2013|
DL has discussed Rope quite a bit. Maybe someone could take the DeLorean back to 1923 and tell Leopold & Loeb to knock it off because their behavior is really going to embarrass the gay community in 2013.
|by Anonymous||reply 144||02/02/2013|
Its much easier to confront someone with the nore evidence as opposed to saying, "I just saw ya frenchin' that dude!" Maybe Alma didn't like confrontation.
|by Anonymous||reply 145||02/02/2013|
The second version of IMITATION OF LIFE. I can't believe that Lana Turner's character becomes a Broadway star simply by suggesting that the playwright/director "give the lines to Amy". Total BS.
|by Anonymous||reply 146||02/02/2013|
R136, the "it" means her heart's desire. But that's just it. I agree with you that the first part means that your dreams/desires are really "no further than your own backyard" or something along those lines.
But, then, if your heart's desire is NOT in the backyard yet you "never really lost it," then WHERE THE HELL IS IT? It's like a double negative or something that hurts my brain! Like "if it's not there, it's not really gone." Huh?
|by Anonymous||reply 147||02/02/2013|