I had to print my taxes and my printer is out of ink, so I went to my local public library. They have a computer lab that is open for a few hours on the weekends. %0D %0D Well, it was packed with bums and thugs. The whole classroom reeked of ashtrays and sweat and B.O. Disgusting...I wanted to call the police. If I were the librarian, each of them would have to pass the smell and good behavior test with me. %0D %0D Why do bums and thugs have free rein to pollute and disrupt public places? I live in a quaint Southern city and I don't see how you metropolitan dwellers stand it.
Body odor in the public library
|by Umpy||reply 164||09/09/2013|
[quote]Why do bums and thugs have free rein to pollute and disrupt public places?
A library system in New Jersey, IIRC, tried to ban people based on smell. The ACLU sued. The library lost.
I usually cheer on the ACLU but this one aggravated me. I no longer spend time at the public library because of the smell and harassment problem. I request stuff online, pick it up at my local branch and then get out.
|by Umpy||reply 1||06/12/2011|
In the summer sometimes the "bums and thugs" go to such places as the library because of how there is AC.
|by Umpy||reply 2||06/12/2011|
[quote]The whole classroom reeked of ashtrays
Where do you live that they allow smoking in the library?
|by Umpy||reply 3||06/12/2011|
Umpy, I find it highly suspicious that you made a trip to an odorous public library instead of a store to buy more ink. And it is my understanding that public libraries are teeming with homothug activity. You arent telling us something.
|by Umpy||reply 4||06/12/2011|
If your too fucking cheap to go to an office supply store and buy printer ink, you really shouldn't be complaining. And taxes? In June? You sound lazy too.
|by Umpy||reply 5||06/12/2011|
It's the same in San Francisco. The line of people at the library door before opening is the same as the crowd at the food lines and public assistance office.
|by Umpy||reply 6||06/12/2011|
I know what you mean. I loved the library when I was a kid because it was air-conditioned, they gave out free kool-aid in the front room, and it was a haven from my parents yelling at me. I even carried a gay bookbag and I didn't care. I remember my card with the metal plate in it.
|by Umpy||reply 7||06/12/2011|
Office Depot didn't have my cartidge. And no one was smoking -but that's how stinky they were. They didn't just smell like cigs, they smelled like ashtrays.
|by Umpy||reply 8||06/12/2011|
I work at a public library. We had this problem for a while but then incorporated into our rules of use that anyone sleeping in the library or not wearing footwear get warned once then asked to leave the premises if there's a second incident that day. There's also a provision that if a patron complains about another patron being intrusive or offensive the situation will be evaluated with the possibility of someone being asked to leave.
More disturbing recently was a couple of heroin ODs in the bathrooms so now bathroom checks are conducted every 30-60 minutes. The other day while waiting for a light to change on a corner near the library I overheard two scruffy looking street guys (users?) complaining about how the checks have interfered with their routines.
|by Umpy||reply 9||06/12/2011|
[quote]The other day while waiting for a light to change on a corner near the library I overheard two scruffy looking street guys (users?) complaining about how the checks have interfered with their routines.
|by Umpy||reply 10||06/12/2011|
One of my favorite childhood memories is of an announcement over the library PA system,
"There will be no smoking of marijuana in the library."
|by Umpy||reply 11||06/12/2011|
I used to love the quiet of the library and the smell of the books.
|by Umpy||reply 12||06/12/2011|
[quote] I remember my card with the metal plate in it.
I think you're confusing that with your head, Rumpy.
|by Umpy||reply 13||06/12/2011|
Where in the South are you, Umpy?
|by Umpy||reply 14||06/12/2011|
[quote]Where do you live that they allow smoking in the library?
No, it's the same on my city's bus system: the homeless men who smoke always reek of ashtray in the enclosed space.
|by Umpy||reply 15||06/12/2011|
Is OP Rumpy, or does someone here actually aspire to be like Rumpy? If so, he is fast gaining with the original Rumpy on the obnoxiousness scale.
|by Umpy||reply 16||06/12/2011|
OP = a real humanitarian. %0D %0D You sound like a real asshole, OP. Fuck off and don't leave your house again.
|by Umpy||reply 17||06/12/2011|
I used to be Grumpy, but I got banned and re-registered as Rumpy. But then I got banned as Rumpy and then I got a new computer and so I registered as Umpy. %0D %0D I live around Columbia, SC.
|by Umpy||reply 18||06/12/2011|
Does it bother you that you keep getting banned, Umpy? Do you think it's unfair?
|by Umpy||reply 19||06/12/2011|
Dear God, you can get banned from DL? What exactly is considered unpardonable around these parts? I've seen some awfully harsh stuff.
|by Umpy||reply 20||06/12/2011|
You should have chosen Dumpy, G/R/Umpy. I thought your mental health was on the mend, LOL.
|by Umpy||reply 21||06/12/2011|
We don't rub elbows with the unwashed masses.
|by Umpy||reply 22||06/12/2011|
[quote]I used to be Grumpy, but I got banned and re-registered as Rumpy. But then I got banned as Rumpy and then I got a new computer and so I registered as Umpy. %0D %0D %0D Reading this now makes me want to F & F you at every opportunity.
|by Umpy||reply 23||06/12/2011|
Fuck the 'bums and thugs', try a packed computer room in a university library full of Masters and PhD students in London. Jesus H Christ, it stinks.
|by Umpy||reply 24||06/12/2011|
Is that how you get banned? I thought the webmaster did it. You all who were around then have to admit that I'm much better. I'm taking Cymbata every day.
|by Umpy||reply 25||06/12/2011|
Why did you get banned?
|by Umpy||reply 26||06/12/2011|
[quote]Reading this now makes me want to F & F you at every opportunity. It's not a good idea to annoy the webmaster like that. And I think heavy F&F activity sends us into Primetime (I'm not certain since the webmaster's criteria are mysterious).
|by Umpy||reply 27||06/12/2011|
Well, thanks for answering my question, I guess. Now why don't you take the hint?
|by Umpy||reply 28||06/12/2011|
People have b.o. in England?
|by Umpy||reply 29||06/12/2011|
I hate going to the public library. I live in a fairly wealthy suburb of DC, but the homeless trash still manage to funk up the joint. If I could find a way to get online in a local university's law library (I'm not a student, but it's easily accessible), I'd stop going to the public library altogether.
|by Umpy||reply 30||06/12/2011|
I would have gone with "Lumpy."
|by Umpy||reply 31||06/12/2011|
The main branch of the Philadelphia Public Library was once a gorgeous place. I loved going after school, and well into my young adulthood, finding some books, and sequestering myself in a corner to read. At some point it all changed, and the homeless started taking over, washing their asses in the public lavatories and begging people for food and change in the library itself. I stopped going around ten years ago; it got to be too much. They have taken it over. I understand they need places to wash and crash and all, but trust me, it made the library a less pleasant place to be. So we just have to accept it because..............? I hope someone has a good answer.
|by Umpy||reply 32||06/12/2011|
Not quite Umpy, it's international students who study in England who have B.O.
|by Umpy||reply 33||06/12/2011|
[quote]People have b.o. in England?
Does a bear shit in the woods?
|by Umpy||reply 34||06/12/2011|
But to add, it's the fact they have a penchant for cheese and onion crisps (and other such stinky snack foods) that makes some of London's great libraries reek!
|by Umpy||reply 35||06/12/2011|
W&W for R13.%0D %0D I totally agree with you, R/D/L/Umpy. I grew up using the main branch of the Enoch Pratt Free Library in downtown Baltimore and there is no more beautiful temple to books than that location. Last time I was there it fit your description. So sad.
|by Umpy||reply 36||06/12/2011|
Just for the record, I don't go to libraries.
|by Umpy||reply 37||06/12/2011|
On my last visit to the public library I contracted conjunctivitis.
|by Umpy||reply 38||06/12/2011|
Did a bum lick your eyeballs?
|by Umpy||reply 39||06/12/2011|
Roust them all for loitering. For chrissake the public library is not a homeless shelter.
|by Umpy||reply 40||06/12/2011|
They need to ban the fucking homeless. They don't pay taxes so they don't get to use the facilities that taxpayers keep running.
|by Umpy||reply 41||06/12/2011|
Grumpy? This is you ON Cymbalta?? Lord have mercy.
|by Umpy||reply 42||06/12/2011|
What happens when you run out of vowels?
|by Umpy||reply 43||06/12/2011|
I went potty, after having washed my hands I touched the doo handle. Usually I use my towel to open the door but there was no waste receptacle near the door; I'm too anal to throw the towel on the floor, thus my plight. The worse part: I had to wear glasses for a week! No dick for me!
|by Umpy||reply 44||06/12/2011|
[quote]On my last visit to the public library I contracted conjunctivitis.
One lady I saw using the library computers carried hand sanitizer and wipes to clean the keyboard. I've noticed hand sanitizer dispenser near my branch's checkout counter. People have noticed there's a public health problem.
|by Umpy||reply 45||06/12/2011|
Lots of university libraries do let the local public use them. You have to register and sometimes give a fee. You just have to deal with the bum students.
|by Umpy||reply 46||06/12/2011|
Grumpy thinks that all he needs to do is drop a letter and we'll all be confused.
|by Umpy||reply 47||06/12/2011|
San Francisco has one of the most beautiful, new public libraries in the country. It is now so foul with the homeless. %0D %0D It's not a nice thing to say, but the smells and abuse from the homeless are revolting.
|by Umpy||reply 48||06/12/2011|
The Boston Public Library is like this. The main reading room in the original building is usually OK but if you spend any time in the attached Philip Johnson 1970s monstrosity you're bound to get a waft of the urine/feces/ashtray smell along with some offensive language. The 'problem' is that severely mentally ill people now have more civil rights than they did in the 70s. They will be asked to leave if you complain to a security guard. They do, and then they go right back in, until someone else complains. It is much harder now for family members to commit these people to a facility or home that will clean them up and feed them. A lot of them insist they're fine. I've seen some get abusive when confronted (ie told their stench is offensive to others). I honestly do not know what the solution is.
|by Umpy||reply 49||06/12/2011|
Umpy said: "I live in a quaint Southern city ..." Where you is?
|by Umpy||reply 50||06/12/2011|
Sadly, some people no longer wish to support public institutions because they feel they can no longer use them. That is some of what is behind the call to reduce taxes -- why pay for libraries when the homeless just turn them into clubhouses?
|by Umpy||reply 51||06/12/2011|
So, since you remove one letter from your name each time you're banned, does that mean after four more bans you'll finally disappear?
|by Umpy||reply 52||06/12/2011|
What part of the South are you from, Rumpy? Did you get banned for writing offensively racist posts?
|by Umpy||reply 53||06/12/2011|
[quote]One lady I saw using the library computers carried hand sanitizer and wipes to clean the keyboard. I've noticed hand sanitizer dispenser near my branch's checkout counter. People have noticed there's a public health problem.%0D %0D Little paranoid now....%0D %0D Should I spray my library books with lysol when I get them home?
|by Umpy||reply 54||06/12/2011|
I work at a state university library in a large city with a huge homeless population. Because we're public, we have to make the computer lab available to the general public. We do require some form of state-issued identification, the result of the Patriot Act's requirements that anyone accessing the Internet on public equipment be identified, but that has the effect of allowing us to turn away people with absolutely no I.D.
The campus is also adjacent to the county jail, so we're the first place newly-released inmates can go online. We accept the state inmate card they're issued as I.D.
We don't allow either groups to sit down ("Students pay for those seats" is my standard lie), and they get a maximum of 30 minutes. Then off they must go.
|by Umpy||reply 55||06/12/2011|
I worked in a public library for a while. In the office area reserved for employees, we had pictures of people who were banned from the library and detailed reasons why. It was completely frightening. If any one of the incidents detailed on those sheets happened near or to me, I would have quit on the spot.
|by Umpy||reply 56||06/12/2011|
[quote]Should I spray my library books with lysol when I get them home?
Sadly, I've stopped using the public library because the books are so unsanitary and the library doesn't care.
When I was a kid, if you damaged a book you might have to pay to replace it. Now, you open a library book and people have sneezed on its pages, left food smears on its pages, and the occasional booger is still found in the pages.
Thank god for Amazon and the Kindle - and my newfound joy in voting "no" on any increases in library funding levies.
|by Umpy||reply 57||06/12/2011|
I wonder if he has to pay $18 each time he gets banned.
|by Umpy||reply 58||06/12/2011|
Most homeless shelters do not allow their clients to stay inside the shelter during the day. Depending on the type of shelther, they are kicked out in the morning and not allowed back in until late at night. Part of the reason why there's so many in public libraries.
|by Umpy||reply 59||06/12/2011|
[quote]Fuck the 'bums and thugs', try a packed computer room in a university library full of Masters and PhD students in London. Jesus H Christ, it stinks.%0D %0D Curry or fish?
|by Umpy||reply 60||06/12/2011|
thanks r57.. you calmed my paranoia..not.%0D %0D off to spray my books....
|by Umpy||reply 61||06/12/2011|
I was in the quiet room of the local library and this homeless guy (who looked young) was in there sleeping. The guy was fucking snoring!!! Another guy started sniffling and this homeless asshole started ranting about it not being quiet and walked out.
|by Umpy||reply 62||06/12/2011|
Have you seen the spooge on most peoples Kindle, r57? No wonder the public library system needs an Epidemiologist.
A soft microfiber cloth slightly dampened with a bit of ammonia-free glass cleaner goes a long way.
|by Umpy||reply 63||06/12/2011|
r60, I've already said ... cheese and onion crisps, and other such smelly snacks.
|by Umpy||reply 64||06/12/2011|
[quote] I honestly do not know what the solution is. Sounds like it's time to bring back the workhouses.
|by Umpy||reply 65||06/12/2011|
The library where I work provides ample hand sanitizer for use. We also religiously wipe down keyboards, screens, phones, desk and table surfaces, etc. - even run the toys from the kid play area through the dishwasher for cleaning. We also visually check/flip through returned items in order to prevent nastiness from hitting the shelves. Our book processors have the authority to remove books they find damaged or unusable.
|by Umpy||reply 66||06/12/2011|
We need to bring back large-scale sanatoriums. A lot of homeless people can't hold down job or make logical decisions about their lives because they suffer from mental illness. They shouldn't be humiliated because of their psychological state, but they shouldn't be roaming the streets either.
|by Umpy||reply 67||06/12/2011|
I don't believe a word this guy says. I thought you were banned by your IP number, not your name. In the days of the DL red necklaces, that's how it went.
|by Umpy||reply 68||06/12/2011|
Worse than the smell is the lice and scabies they harbor.
|by Umpy||reply 69||06/12/2011|
People have always been sneezing, coughing etc.. on library books. %0D %0D Libraries will probably go all digital in the future, and you will have to pay a fee and own a computer to access books and other media. That'll show those poor people!
|by Umpy||reply 70||06/12/2011|
The middlebrow set now use places like Barnes and Noble as their libraries. The public joints are now the province of the elderly and the indigent.
|by Umpy||reply 71||06/12/2011|
The public library is an anachronism. It's time to shut these homeless shelters down.
|by Umpy||reply 72||06/12/2011|
Which is why I only browse in a B&N store, and then order the book on-line.
|by Umpy||reply 73||06/12/2011|
Middle-CLASS set, R71. See the link for a definition of "middlebrow."
|by Umpy||reply 74||06/12/2011|
Those bums reeked so bad I had to concentrate not to gag. Remember fart spray? They sold it in Spencer's at the mall. Well, if I went into the computer lab and sprayed fart spray, I bet I would get expelled from the library. These bums smelled just as nasty and they were left alone.
|by Umpy||reply 75||06/12/2011|
[quote]The main branch of the Philadelphia Public Library was once a gorgeous place. I loved going after school, and well into my young adulthood, finding some books, and sequestering myself in a corner to read. At some point it all changed, and the homeless started taking over, washing their asses in the public lavatories and begging people for food and change in the library itself. I stopped going around ten years ago; it got to be too much. They have taken it over. %0D %0D I remember a couple of years ago when a young girl was raped in the bathroom at the Free Library.%0D I moved to Philly about 5 years ago and was underwhelmed with the library. You folks on DL can bitch about flyover country all you want but when I lived in the midwest we had a beautiful modern large clean library that was populated by mostly regular working folks and retirees. I don't remember obnoxious behavior or odors.%0D %0D
|by Umpy||reply 76||06/12/2011|
[quote]Remember fart spray?
Oh man, that stuff was so foul. People's reactions to it were hilarious. It smelled 10x worse than most people's farts.
|by Umpy||reply 77||06/12/2011|
Did you ever think downloading personal info on a public computer is probably a stupid move? Especially tax info?
|by Umpy||reply 78||06/12/2011|
Don't forget the crazy guys exposing themselves and/or jerking off in the library!
|by Umpy||reply 79||06/12/2011|
"A lot of homeless people can't hold down job or make logical decisions about their lives because they suffer from mental illness."
Treatment usually requires their consent. But many of them refuse treatment and refuse to believe anything is wrong.
|by Umpy||reply 80||06/12/2011|
I hope you are proud of yourself, Dumpy.
|by Umpy||reply 81||06/12/2011|
The homeless shelter in my city is a few blocks from the downtown library. The homeless are locked out of the shelter all day. The winters here in southwestern Ontario are bitterly cold and the summers are extremely humid. The library offers warmth, air conditioning, relative safety and indoor plumbing as needed. They also have a security guard who patrols the numerous floors and checks the washrooms. The reference desks are strategically placed near the washrooms so they can keep an eye out. The vibe there is completely different from the libraries in other neighbourhoods in the city. I can't relax and kick back with a book. The moms bring their sons into the women's washroom. I've seen a few pissed off eightish year olds.
|by Umpy||reply 82||06/12/2011|
[quote]San Francisco has one of the most beautiful, new public libraries in the country. It is now so foul with the homeless. It's not a nice thing to say, but the smells and abuse from the homeless are revolting.
No kidding. Rumpy may be complaining about body odor, but there are days at the SFPL where you not only smell bo, but urine saturated pants.
The bums will grab a book and nurse it for hours pretending to be reading. They can't be caught napping. The nice cushioned chairs they sit on stink to high heaven.
I almost got robbed by one of these bums a few years ago. I put my belongings down so I could grab a book on the top shelf. The idiot swoops in and grabs my stuff. I run after him knowing that he's not going to get away with it because we're on the 3rd story. I chase him into the elevator and grab my bag back. He gives me a stupid and says, "oh, is this yours?" Fucker.
|by Umpy||reply 83||06/12/2011|
Try being homeless without no or little access to bathing and being out on freezing or broiling hot streets and see how well you do.%0D %0D So many of you must know you will always have enough money to live will for the rest of your lives no matter what because you sure don't seem to be able to conceive that someday you can be that stinky person looking for a little shelter. %0D %0D BTW, well to do people who smoke stink like hell to be next too as well. Money doesn't take away the stink from smoking. %0D
|by Umpy||reply 84||06/12/2011|
R84, from what public library are you posting from?
|by Umpy||reply 85||06/12/2011|
We're not saying the homeless are wrong -- we're saying their using the library as a clubhouse.
They should have 24 hour shelters
|by Umpy||reply 86||06/12/2011|
[quote]We need to bring back large-scale sanatoriums. A lot of homeless people can't hold down job or make logical decisions about their lives because they suffer from mental illness. They shouldn't be humiliated because of their psychological state, but they shouldn't be roaming the streets either. You can thank Ronald Reagan. Oh, wait, he's dead. You can thank the Republican Reagan Worshipers. [quote]The public library is an anachronism. It's time to shut these homeless shelters down. Thank you, Barbara Bush, for your advice.
|by Umpy||reply 87||06/12/2011|
R57, you are an asshole.
|by Umpy||reply 88||06/12/2011|
Questions to the Librarians here (and we have more than I expected):%0D %0D Do you look at the previous books I check out.. this year I have checked out books on compulsions, Dalai Lama, boks from Larson Steig (I think that's the name - The Girl with the Tatoo book - I am on the 2nd one now), Eckhart Tolle, meditation CDs, CD by Gordon Lightfoot (don't laugh it soothing), and Nora Roberts.%0D %0D Do you ever wonder what I am up too? I always look at the Librarian to see if she is thinking "Oh Lord".. ya know has that look.
|by Umpy||reply 89||06/12/2011|
Sorry, R89, we are too busy to be doing that.
|by Umpy||reply 90||06/12/2011|
R89 we only keep track of books currently checked out, not past check outs. There is an online feature patrons themselves can opt into if they want to keep a list for themselves but that's all.
thank the Patriot Act - we can't give the Feds what we don't have :)
|by Umpy||reply 91||06/12/2011|
R89, your post made me laugh. When I was a kid we had a nosy old librarian that oversaw a collection of probably around 1,000 books (I grew up in a town so small it was a suburb of Hooterville) who did make it her business to have an opinion on your reading material. Fortunately, I now live in a city where librarians have neither the time or concern about what you're reading.
Except - didn't the Bush administration try and pass something that required librarians to flag certain books and report on who checked them out? Seems like I remember something about that.
|by Umpy||reply 92||06/12/2011|
|by Umpy||reply 93||06/12/2011|
I live in a suburb of Denver and we have amazing, clean, quiet libraries. I get all of my CDs, DVDs, books, and even video games there. I save a fortune.
|by Umpy||reply 94||06/12/2011|
r94, I was the one wondering about the lysol, but I am out in the burbs and really think all my books look clean and fresh, even the cover on my Gordon Lightfoot CD was clean. lol%0D %0D I love the library. Librarians are always helpful and sweet. Books and CDs are free. I read too many books to pay for it plus you can test out a text/inspirational book before you buy it.
|by Umpy||reply 95||06/12/2011|
[quote]Except - didn't the Bush administration try and pass something that required librarians to flag certain books and report on who checked them out? Seems like I remember something about that.%0D %0D r92, see the second half of r91's post. It makes me giggle. Problem solved. it sounds like the Librarians revolted against doing it. Good for them.%0D %0D %0D
|by Umpy||reply 96||06/12/2011|
What's Umps going to do when he runs out of letters in his name?
|by Umpy||reply 97||06/12/2011|
Grumpy/Rumpy/Umpy has been trolling DataLounge for in excess of three years now. He's actually been banned more than the two bans to which he admits. What is it going to take to get this asshole permabanned?
|by Umpy||reply 98||06/12/2011|
sorry, op, but is is a PUBLIC library. i don't enjoy malodorous environs either, but the stinky are still human beings with the same rights as you or i. just endeavor to persevere while in the company of unwashed persons.
|by Umpy||reply 99||06/13/2011|
Not trying to add to the troll count r98, but why does this thread have 99 responses, some of which are actually interesting and on-topic?
I remember when his threads would be totally ignored here. They'd go without replies and whoosh off the main pages. People don't seem to let things go here anymore.
I also remember his excruciatingly painful cat posts. This is much better, and I can still skip it if it's too much.
|by Umpy||reply 100||06/13/2011|
[quote]BTW, well to do (sic) people who smoke stink like hell to be next too as well. Money doesn't take away the stink from smoking. Yes, cigarettes always stink, but there's a huge difference in smell between someone who lights a cig and finishes it off in a single session vs someone who butts out their cig when it's only half-finished in order to smoke the rest of it later. (Or, in the case of homeless and other losers, they pick up discarded butts off the street.) Cig smoke is yucky, but butted-out cigs are freaking FOUL!
|by Umpy||reply 101||06/13/2011|
Do any of the homeless actually read?
I don't understand why we don't just have all day homeless shelters if this is what libraries have become.
To those saying the smelly have rights...no they don't (or shouldn't). If someone is too loud they can be arrested for disturbing he peace. So, if someone stinks they should be arrested for being offensive to others as well.
|by Umpy||reply 102||06/13/2011|
The DL Republicans don't want tax money paying for homeless shelters. They don't want the homeless living on the streets or allowed in the libraries. Where is it that you want them to go?
|by Umpy||reply 103||06/13/2011|
I stopped going to the library mainly because of the stink. It's a sad state of affairs when librarians are forced to be homeless minders. Sooner or later they'll be shut down as regular people won't want to support them if they're too disgusting to visit. Then the cons will have won.
|by Umpy||reply 104||06/13/2011|
I worked in a large chain bookstore when I was younger. The homeless were the first in the place in the morning and the last to leave. The majority of them stank, and many *ruined* the bathrooms due to whatever horrible garbage food they were forced to eat. I ended up both disgusted by some of the experiences I had dealing with them daily, and compassionate. If I was homeless I'd spend my days in a library or bookstore too.
|by Umpy||reply 105||06/13/2011|
This would stop the moment you only gain access to a library through your library card and you have to apply for your card either only or have an appointment where a librarian is opening the door for you.
Treat libraries like dance clubs with a rope, a red carpet and limited access and people will consider it a hot spot.
|by Umpy||reply 106||06/13/2011|
sorry: ... for your card either ONLINE or have an ...
|by Umpy||reply 107||06/13/2011|
Librarian here--to answer R89's question: no, we do not do that. That falls under intellectual freedom, which means that what you read is your business. Every time a subpoena is issued under section 215 of the PATRIOT ACT to a library for patron records (and it happens more often then you would think), it is challenged. In fact, most libraries use software that a) deliberately purges patron check-out histories and interlibrary loan requests and b) automatically deletes browsing histories on public access computers.
Regarding the conversation about "bums and the homeless" using the public library--yes, it gets irritating, but the public library is for EVERYONE to use, regardless of smell.
|by Umpy||reply 108||06/13/2011|
[quote] The DL Republicans don't want tax money paying for homeless shelters. They don't want the homeless living on the streets or allowed in the libraries. Where is it that you want them to go? Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses?
|by Umpy||reply 109||06/13/2011|
[quote] Regarding the conversation about "bums and the homeless" using the public library--yes, it gets irritating, but the public library is for EVERYONE to use, regardless of smell. That part of the "public" doesn't pay taxes that support the library so they shouldn't have access to it.
|by Umpy||reply 110||06/13/2011|
That argument does not wash, R110--public libraries provide free exchange of information inside and outside of the immediate community. So what if a small segment of the population doesn't pay taxes? We cannot pick and choose who gets access to information that is provided by a public library--where do you think we're living, China?
|by Umpy||reply 111||06/13/2011|
Except the homeless are not "accessing information." They're sleeping and using the bathroom mostly.
|by Umpy||reply 112||06/13/2011|
r108, I'm in a smaller city in flyover country and the library does enforce a 'noxious odour' policy.
Their position is that the homeless are considered patrons, but they don't have the right to disturb others' use of the library.
The policy is posted at the front entrance and at the circ desk.
I've literally been unable to get to books near where one person sits because the smell is so bad; I'm not being a Mary! either. It was that gross.
The few people who were banned had case workers who intervened to make sure it wasn't a political issue. The next time I saw these people, they had cleaned up and were allowed back.
Of course, our city is small enough to do this.
|by Umpy||reply 113||06/13/2011|
R108 here again. I'm not saying the homeless are not a problem, but what are we supposed to do about it? A public library is more or less a public utility, and the last I checked smelling bad was not a reason to kick someone out. I don't know who's running the library in R113's town but mark my words, a lawsuit is brewing over that policy.
|by Umpy||reply 114||06/13/2011|
Any legal aid attorney worth their salt would kill to set a precedent over a smelly library patron. Makes me want to not bathe for a couple weeks and get involved. People are barbaric, this will never change.
|by Umpy||reply 115||06/13/2011|
I'm in Canada R114, if that makes any difference.
The tack they took was treating it the same way they would any other patron who was infringing on everyone else's ability to use the library.
It didn't address the homeless specifically.
It was vetted by lawyers before it went up. I remember having a discussion with one of the older librarians about it.
|by Umpy||reply 116||06/13/2011|
Grumpy gets a golden star for actually starting an interesting discussion.
|by Umpy||reply 117||06/13/2011|
Few things are worse than kicking someone when he/she is down.
|by Umpy||reply 118||06/13/2011|
r110 By your logic, no children should be able to use the libraries either. Idiot.
|by Umpy||reply 119||06/13/2011|
Few things are as annoying as sanctimonious twits who spew pieties without addressing the problem. Many people now no longer use public libraries or curtail their use because of the smell, sanitation and harassment problems caused by homeless people using public libraries as havens. It's not horrible to admit this is a nationwide problem and discuss it. If you have some suggestion about how to solve it, by all means, share it with us. Otherwise, take your sanctimony and shove it.
|by Umpy||reply 120||06/13/2011|
[quote] By your logic, no children should be able to use the libraries either. Idiot. Their parents pay taxes. Idiot. Smelly, insane homeless people should have no rights other than being locked up in the crazy house 24/7.
|by Umpy||reply 121||06/13/2011|
Get r120 . Yikes.
|by Umpy||reply 122||06/13/2011|
So, again, this is your logic, all homeless people exist in a smelly vacuum with no relatives who pay any sort of taxes. I'm sure you're absolutely right. And, quite the humanitarian as well. Fascist idiot.
|by Umpy||reply 123||06/13/2011|
[quote] So, again, this is your logic, all homeless people exist in a smelly vacuum with no relatives who pay any sort of taxes. I'm sure you're absolutely right. And, quite the humanitarian as well. Fascist idiot. Nope. Just sick of these lowlifes having more rights than I do. I long for the good old days when crazies and retards were locked up for life.
|by Umpy||reply 124||06/13/2011|
and if they have relatives somewhere then they should be required to do something with them: either commit them or take them in.
|by Umpy||reply 125||06/13/2011|
Some of you people sound incredibly sheltered.
|by Umpy||reply 126||06/13/2011|
Excuse r124. She has been living under a rock for the last five years if she thinks all homeless are crazy and retarded.
|by Umpy||reply 127||06/13/2011|
Hi,%0D %0D I am r82 and r118 aka Sanctimonious Twit. I did acknowledge and address this problem from both sides of view in my post at r82. What compelled me to comment further were the posts referring to the homeless as losers and questioning their right to even step foot in the library.%0D %0D Many homeless paid taxes before falling on hard times, before mental illness. They are not homeless because they are lazy. They are homeless because they lack opportunities. If a homeless person has never and will never pay taxes then I am ok with this. %0D %0D The homeless seek shelter inside the library because we, as a society have failed them. They do not have anywhere else to go to get away from the bad weather. We do not provide them with proper physical and mental health care. %0D %0D If I was homeless and spent my nights in a shelter surrounded by people with various degrees of mental stability I would force myself to stay awake and keep watch. Would you shower there if you felt unsafe? I would much prefer to nap in the library during the day where I am safer. %0D %0D I elaborated more of the other side @r82.%0D %0D %0D %0D
|by Umpy||reply 128||06/13/2011|
Many of them are mentally ill and have been denied getting benefits going back to Reagan.
|by Umpy||reply 129||06/13/2011|
Caring for someone with a serious mental illness is a full time job. We as a society do not recognise this and pay the caretaker a salary if they are related. %0D %0D Let me see if I am understanding this correctly. We refuse to provide proper mental health care to those who need it to help them become productive members of society but you are all for institutionalizing these people at quadruple the cost?
|by Umpy||reply 130||06/13/2011|
Many of the assholes on this thread would like to eat foie gras whilst looking out the window at starving, freezing, suffering people.
|by Umpy||reply 131||06/13/2011|
I support the bums in this one, OP.
|by Umpy||reply 132||06/13/2011|
I don't think people are saying stinky homeless people should be thrown out on the street. They're just saying they don't belong in the library. They need to go to a shelter that is designed to serve their needs.
|by Umpy||reply 133||06/13/2011|
Good you have it all figured out, r133, please share your solutions.
|by Umpy||reply 134||06/13/2011|
I'm not r133, but the solution is easy: more shelters and temporary housing. Homeless people use libraries to sleep, and then stay awake throughout the night (because it's unsafe). If a society can not make provision for the homeless to sleep somewhere - then it's a fucking shitty 'society'.
|by Umpy||reply 135||06/13/2011|
If you want unwashed masses stink, go to the midnight showing of the next/last Harry Potter movie.
|by Umpy||reply 136||06/13/2011|
[quote]If a society can not make provision for the homeless to sleep somewhere - then it's a fucking shitty 'society'.
You're right. The measure of a humane society's decency is not how well the upper classes live, but how the lower classes live and are treated.
|by Umpy||reply 137||06/13/2011|
[quote]Many of the assholes on this thread would like to eat foie gras whilst looking out the window at starving, freezing, suffering people. Oh shut up. I can almost bet you've done nothing to help the "starving, freezing, suffering people." People have the right to go into a public institution without having to be subjected to the foul odor of unwashed persons. What about the rights of library patrons? Many students and researchers go there to read and study for hours. Imagine having to smell the BO of someone who hasn't bathed in weeks as you quietly study for exams. The library is not a homeless shelter.
|by Umpy||reply 138||06/13/2011|
The downtown Las Vegas libraries literally look like homeless villages from the outside.%0D %0D Speaking of children, a few librarians have told me that parents still think the library is a place for their kids to be dropped off at. Forget it. The number of convicted pedophiles who lurk there is incredible. They are not banned by law from being there, unlike distances from schools and playgrounds.
|by Umpy||reply 139||06/13/2011|
Do a search on an article called "Tragedy of the Commons" by Garrett Hardin. It gives an accurate and concise explanation of what is happening.
|by Umpy||reply 140||06/13/2011|
Look, if the homeless want to use the library for what it's meant to be used for, fine. But it's not a day-shelter and there should be a way to run them off. We do need sanitoriums and 24-hour homeless shelters, but that requires either "faith-based" efforts (oh suure they will) or a tax-base, neither of which we have now. But the homeless should not be permitted to take over and make unusable the very institution that helped to create an educated middle class and helps to preserve what little is left of Democracy and an open information society. Isn't it a case of suppression of free speech, free speech being books and access to the same, for gangs of homeless people to make the libraries inaccessible to the non-homeless?
|by Umpy||reply 141||06/13/2011|
r138, you should place your bets more carefully. If you're that hasty with your money I might see you in line for a free meal. I wouldn't usually talk about my service work, but I will say the need out there is enormous. My heart goes out mostly to the children. By helping families one meal at a time, or with clothing, toys (provided they have a place to keep them), or just listening, you can make a difference in a persons life. I work with an organization that helps people in crisis. We give rides to the doctor, hook people up with services (I'm lucky to live where there are still some services available) such as temporary housing, chemical dependency treatment, meals, but mostly compassion and a willingness to help. I don't mean to sound Pollyanna, I understand it's annoying, but this problem is only getting worse. If your pissed off people are using the library, get out there and roll up your sleeves, help find a solution.
|by Umpy||reply 142||06/14/2011|
If you're pissed off. r142 editing.
|by Umpy||reply 143||06/14/2011|
r142 if ever I should reach the level of becoming a burden to myself, my family and society, I will exit this world with dignity. I will not dig in the trash, sit in the library with urine soaked pants, or make my living begging for food and money. That is not life.
|by Umpy||reply 144||06/14/2011|
R144, not everyone has the balls to commit suicide. The people sitting in their feces and urine are probably in need of medical/psychiatric care more than a home. I think your view is narrow, I get the idea you do not understand the scope of the problem; I also suspect you do not tolerate differences in others graciously.
|by Umpy||reply 145||06/14/2011|
You're a bunch of assholes. Lucky for you that you have shelter and food.
|by Umpy||reply 146||06/14/2011|
[quote]Speaking of children, a few librarians have told me that parents still think the library is a place for their kids to be dropped off at. Forget it. The number of convicted pedophiles who lurk there is incredible. They are not banned by law from being there, unlike distances from schools and playgrounds.%0D %0D I work for Barnes & Noble, and the same happens here. People drop off their kids to entertain themselves in the children's department (ie, to tear up all the merchandise and leave a huge mess) while they shop at the mall nearby. Little do they know that as soon as we perceive that a child has been left alone unsupervised, we call Child Protective Services. We do not fuck around.
|by Umpy||reply 147||06/14/2011|
R140, I think this thread deserves some explanation. The "Tragedy of the Commons" is the inevitable result of "public" ownership since no one can ever be held accountable. The oil spill in the Gulf should have resulted in a class action lawsuit brought about by all affected owners of land and water rights. It would have bankrupted BP, but the victims would be somewhat compensated, and the capital sales could be used by a more responsible owner to drill and refine oil. However, since the oversight for these rigs is in bed with BP/Exxon/etc they don't get in trouble until something goes wrong, and then it's a slap on the wrist. A privately funded library is the only viable alternative.
|by Umpy||reply 148||06/14/2011|
Sit your ass down r148 aka Rick Scott. Nobody here is that stupid.
|by Umpy||reply 149||06/14/2011|
the MOST annoying people in the library are the kids dumped off by their parents on saturday and sunday for free babysitting. they monopolize all the computers. when my desktop died, i would go in needing 15 min, but would have to wait 2-3 hours b/c of kids playing on the computers and fighting with each other over various "issues."
|by Umpy||reply 150||06/14/2011|
r142/r145 I don't think you really grasp the scope either. Your way of thinking has not worked for decades and decades. It has not benefited society nor the homeless mentally ill people. We a new solution. Your pollyannic world view has kept things in not only status quo, but has exasperated the problem.
I live in two cities that has been plagued by homelessness for decades: San Francisco and Los Angeles. So don't tell me that I don't grasp the scope of the problem.
The service that you work for is myopic and short-term. You feed people for one day. You make their lives less inconvenient for just that one day. You're not solving the real problems that plagues them.
|by Umpy||reply 151||06/14/2011|
|by Umpy||reply 152||06/17/2011|
R148, all it took was one crooked judge to toss most of the Exxon Valdez damages.
|by Umpy||reply 153||06/18/2011|
i see plenty of homeless sitiing in the library all day
i sadly have to go there to use the internet
damn cable companies for charging so much for internet
|by Umpy||reply 154||09/07/2013|
I work for a library system that serves about 150,000 people and we do have a few problems with homeless people, but not many. We serve very poor people and very wealthy people, and a lot of the rich ones are a bigger pain in the ass.
We do have some problems now and then, but we are pretty tough. Just yesterday I told some kid to pull his pants up or get out. I don't want to see anyone's ass hanging out.
You have to have a library card to use our computers, so that cuts down on some folks coming in. We do have idiots who still try to look at porn--we catch them, ban them the first time, second time--call the police.
We have an unattended child policy--no kids under 9 without a parent or older sibling. We are not your after school daycare. Any kids left at closing times--we call the police to come get them. There have been some pissed parents.
The public library is still, and will be, a viable public service. The libraries who DON'T change with the times and show the public how valuable they are will lose funding and die. I'm pretty lucky to work for a system that gets good funding, even with assholes like some of you in this thread who gleefully vote "no" to library support.
|by Umpy||reply 155||09/07/2013|
Libraries are an outdated notion these days. It's all online these days.
|by Umpy||reply 156||09/07/2013|
"Few things are worse than kicking someone who is down."
This is human nature, cochise. You will not get people to stop doing this.
|by Umpy||reply 157||09/07/2013|
[quote] Libraries are an outdated notion these days. It's all online these days.
Have you ever been to a public library?
I have to assume not - if you think their services are available online.
Let's start with an easy one. People who can't get online at home - can at the public library.
Let's try another one - check out the children's activities.
How about public meeting rooms?
Where online can I get a copy of book for no charge?
|by Umpy||reply 158||09/07/2013|
I recently stopped at a library in a nearby city and there must have been two dozen homeless men standing along a fence near the library entrance. It looked like a meat rack on Fire Island. I asked someone inside if that was unusual and was told that they hang out there most of the day.
|by Umpy||reply 159||09/07/2013|
I don't think it's fair to the librarians who spend time and money to get both a undergraduate degree and specialized advanced degrees in library science and then have to spend their time and energy mitigating the effects of bums (as described in R9 's post). These homeless people can be very disturbed and violent due to mental illness or substance abuse. I'm not judging them, but libraries tend to attract school age kids and meek readers who don't have the "street smarts" to deal with surly bums.
I know homeless people are people too. I totally get that. But the ones at my public library honestly just sleep on the couches and kind of made me very uncomfortable going there when I was younger. One shouted profanities at my friend and then chased her.
|by Umpy||reply 160||09/07/2013|
My mind is reeling from reading about the parents who just drop their kids off at the library. What kind of a parent in this day and age would leave their kid unsupervised in any public place? I don't even have kids but if I did that would be unthinkable. And even as a childless person I can sure as hell bet that a public library would be a stalking ground for pedophiles and other assorted sickos.
|by Umpy||reply 161||09/07/2013|
One morning I opened the library and 3 groups of young kids came in. They ranged in age from about 4 years up to around 9. They all had lunch boxes and drink bottles. I asked them what school they attended and rang the school to check if it was a pupil free day. It was, so the library manager got the kid's names from their library cards, rang the school and asked them to contact the parents to collect their children in the next hour, otherwise Children's Services would be called. The parents were all at work and had dropped the kids off at the library for the day rather than pay for childcare. They were pissed they had to collect the kids early as they wanted them to stay there until after 5pm. We opened at 0930.
|by Umpy||reply 162||09/07/2013|
Wow [R169], that's crazy. We've never had anything that extreme, as far as I know. I was talking to one of our managers at our smallest library the other day. She said some mom walked in, plopped down her toddler and said "I'll be back in an hour"... The tough old librarian broad told her she'd need to pick the kid up at the police station then because that's where he's going to be. You can imagine how pissed that shitty mom was.
Librarians have to be tougher these days--unfortunately, the job does attract a lot of meek and shy people who don't have the balls to stand up to people. I try to get it across to our staff that even though we work for the public, it doesn't mean we have to take abuse. I had one mousy staffer come get me out of a meeting because a lady was being too loud on her cellphone and her kid was running around the building. Jeez. Grow a pair and tell her to shut up and control her brat! Not in those words, of course.
It will happen at some point, but we are still years and years away from people not using printed materials, physical DVDs, audiobooks, CDs, etc. Sure, we spend less money on them now as we beef up our electronic collection, but the idea that "well, there's the Internet now, might as well close the library" is really a stupid person's rationale. Unfortunately, a lot of those people are in elected office and get to make decisions about library funding.
Just the other day, I photographed everything going on in one day, just to show officials. They were amazed.
|by Umpy||reply 163||09/08/2013|
there is this one old guy who watches port ALL day
he thinks the privacy screen covers what he's watching?
he is really creepy and gross
guess what? hasn't been kicked out yet
|by Umpy||reply 164||09/09/2013|