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The Sterile Cukoo

What do we think of this modest,early Liza gem (besides the horrific soudtrack).%0D %0D I find it oddly affecting.%0D %0D She was actually nominated for an Oscar. But parts of it seem extremely dated.

by Anonymousreply 11906/26/2013

The movie, compared to the book, was very unfair to Pookie.

by Anonymousreply 103/18/2011

I was in love with Wendell Burton for a long time.

He's a Christian Minister now.

by Anonymousreply 203/18/2011

Couldn't stand it. When the beach girls abduct the gay guy in their dune buggy supposedly to straighten him out I felt I'd been had. Every other quirk gets justified in some way while the homosexual, well, he just has to change. I literally booed my tv set.

by Anonymousreply 303/18/2011

What movie did R3 see?

by Anonymousreply 403/18/2011

The line "just I and my friend" makes me want to punch the Sandpipers.

by Anonymousreply 503/18/2011

Funny, r5. I was just thinking about that today.

I liked Pookie's prep school fashions--they stand out more than anything else in the movie to me.

So, was Pookie borderline?

by Anonymousreply 603/18/2011

Liza'a up high bangs certainly left that impression, r6.

by Anonymousreply 703/18/2011

Liza's performance in this was heartbreaking and is a breathtaking appetizer for her brilliance in CABARET just a few short years later.

by Anonymousreply 803/18/2011

Whatever. It's a shame her career crapped out before she was thirty.

by Anonymousreply 903/18/2011

I think R3's talking abut Junie Moon.

by Anonymousreply 1003/18/2011

Pookie Adams!

by Anonymousreply 1103/19/2011

I know I've read the book (in High School, 25 years ago) but I can't remember a single thing about it.

by Anonymousreply 1203/19/2011

Liza's performance couldn't compare to Maggi Smith's in Jean Brodie" that same year.

by Anonymousreply 1303/19/2011

Couldn't be made today.

by Anonymousreply 1403/19/2011

Come Saturday morning%0D I'm goin' away with my friend%0D We'll Saturday-spend till the end of the day-ay%0D Just I and my friend%0D We'll travel for miles in our Saturday smiles%0D And then we'll move on%0D But we will remember long after Saturday's gone%0D (Come Saturday morning, come Saturday mo-o-rning)%0D %0D Come Saturday morning%0D I'm goin' away with my friend%0D We'll Saturday-laugh more than half of the day (ay-ay-ay)%0D Just I and my friend (my friend)%0D Dressed up in our rings and our Saturday things%0D And then we'll move on%0D But we will remember long after Saturday's gone%0D (Come Saturday morning, come Saturday morning)%0D %0D Come Saturday mo (Saturday) rning%0D %0D Just I and my friend (my friend)%0D We'll travel for miles in our Saturday smiles%0D And then we'll move on%0D But we will remember long after Saturday's gone%0D %0D Come Saturday morning, come Saturday mo-o-rning%0D Come Saturday morning, come Saturday mo-o-rning%0D %0D

by Anonymousreply 1503/19/2011

I don't get the title.

by Anonymousreply 1603/19/2011

[quote]But parts of it seem extremely dated.

Is "1776" dated? There's no such thing as "dated". It's just a recorded history, or a snapshot of the times.

by Anonymousreply 1703/19/2011

"I don't get the title."%0D %0D It had something to do with Pookie thinking she might be pregant, but it turns out she's not. In the book she wrote a poem inspired by her lack of fertility that she called "The Sterile Cuckoo." It's about a cuckoo bird and it's very weird. %0D %0D I thought Liza Minnelli was perfect for the role of the wacky, nutty Pookie. She WAS Pookie.%0D %0D I tried reading the book a long time ago. It was hard to read, primarily because the character of Pookie is so unbearable. I kept wondering how Jerry could stay in the same room with her, much less have a relationship with with her.%0D %0D The book ends on a sadder, more cryptic note. A year after Pookie goes back home she writes Jerry a letter saying she's got a bottle of sleeping pills and intends to take them all, and that by the time he reads the letter she'll be a "crumbled cookie." She says that he expect him to do anything about it, she just wants someone to say goodbye to. "You'll think of me sometimes, won't you?" is how the letter ends. Jerry considers trying to find out if she's actually dead, but in the end decides it's best to leave the matter unresolved and that maybe that's the way Pookie would have wanted it. He still entertains the idea that she might still be alive "forever telling her stories to stangers."%0D %0D I always liked "Come Saturday Morning." It just seems like an unbearably sad song to me.%0D

by Anonymousreply 1803/19/2011

LUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUV THE FILM!!!!!!!!!!!

by Anonymousreply 1903/19/2011

Pookie's a textbook example of borderline personality disorder. So is the title character in "Betty Blue."%0D

by Anonymousreply 2003/19/2011

Pookie is a gay icon.

by Anonymousreply 2103/19/2011

[quote] Want some lunch?

by Anonymousreply 2203/19/2011

I tried watching the film recently and while the story itself isn't dated, the 60's filmmaking style certainly is. A lot of films from that era don't age well for that reason. Minnelli makes Pookie slightly less annoying than the novel's Pookie. However, this type of character was more unusual when this film was made as opposed to now, when we have an overflow of dysfunctional types all over the so-called "reality shows", so nowadays one might not feel the need to spend a couple of hours with Pookie. Wendell Burton made only one other film I can think of - FORTUNE IN MENS' EYES where he plays a kid jailed for pot possession and finds himself in a hotbed of [gasp!] homosexual behavior. It's another film that uses gay sex as a shock tactic.

by Anonymousreply 2303/19/2011

Pookie was such a sad character. Never able to connect with anyone (male or female) and desperate to. Jerry Payne did have some feelings for her because he felt guilty about having told her that they should take a break from each other, but ultimately he realized that he was different from her and wanted to have a "normal" life with friends and school. She couldn't do it.%0D %0D BTW, I love the soundtrack, not only the Come Sunday Morning theme, but all the music in the film.

by Anonymousreply 2403/19/2011

In addition to the two movies he made, Wendall Burton played Charlie Brown in a TV adaptation of the musical YOU'RE A GOOD MAN CHARLIE BROWN.%0D %0D I loved CUCKOO and I fell in love with Liza after seeing the film. I had a few of her Capitol albums but seeing her play Pookie really won me over.%0D

by Anonymousreply 2503/19/2011

I think she looks eerily like her mother in the concert scene at the Starlight Terrace at the end of the movie.

by Anonymousreply 2603/19/2011

You do all know that Patty Duke was offered the role first but thru negotiations it fell thru....

by Anonymousreply 2703/19/2011

The Shterile Cuckoo ish one of my besht and favorite performancshes. Mama almosht got to shee it but she pashed away jusht before it was releashed.

by Anonymousreply 2803/19/2011

"Come Saturday Morning" was on Liza's Four Sider album that I bought in HS back in '71 or so. I always liked the bohemian feel and could not wait to get away from home and meet someone to spend Saturdays with.%0D %0D But I could only find jobs in retail so I always worked Saturdays anyway. %0D %0D So I went to college.%0D %0D Point of the story? There isn't one.

by Anonymousreply 2903/19/2011

I love the film so much. I agree, the use of the dreadful song was a little bit heavy handed. Oherwise I find it hard to fault it.%0D %0D I love her little car. I love the place they go to to have sex. It's funny and sweet.%0D %0D I always loved the way she kept telling people their parents had just died on Rhode Island.

by Anonymousreply 3003/19/2011

Didn't Wendell Burton die in a car accident?

by Anonymousreply 3103/19/2011

R31- Don't think so. Are you thinking of Brandon deWilde?

by Anonymousreply 3203/19/2011

I recently read the book (or tried to) - it is such a pile of crap. This is one of the rare cases in which the movie turned out better. The book's characters were truly unlikeable and there really seemed to be no point to the narrative at all.

by Anonymousreply 3303/19/2011

[quote]You do all know that Patty Duke was offered the role first but thru negotiations it fell thru....

Thank god.

by Anonymousreply 3403/19/2011

I'm sure I once saw a website where someone had gone back to some of the locations to do then and now pics. Now I can't find it.

by Anonymousreply 3503/19/2011

How the hell are you watching this if it's not on DVD?

by Anonymousreply 3603/19/2011

I taped it years ago off of Encore or Cinemax.

by Anonymousreply 3703/19/2011

What about "Tell Me That You Love Me, Junie Moon."

I'd like to see that!

by Anonymousreply 3803/19/2011

It's on YouTube.

by Anonymousreply 3903/19/2011

It was Helen Lawson who was offered the role first, THEN Patty Duke, THEN Liza.

by Anonymousreply 4003/19/2011

more than 40 years ago...

by Anonymousreply 4103/19/2011

This movie inspired Liza to work with retarded children.

by Anonymousreply 4203/19/2011

And marry one of them, too, R42

by Anonymousreply 4303/19/2011

I used to hear Come Saturday Morning a lot and it surprised me when I watched the movie and it was a big part of it. I don't think I'd ever heard anyone talk about the song in connection with a movie.

by Anonymousreply 4403/20/2011

Both THE STERILE CUCKOO and TELL ME THAT YOU LOVE ME, JUNIE MOON have both been on rotation on one of the Encores Retroplex channels. I know JUNIE MOON has been on Flix.%0D

by Anonymousreply 4503/20/2011

It was filmed near where I grew up in Upstate, NY:

Hamilton College in Clinton, NY Sylvan Beach, NY

it actually made it look pretty

by Anonymousreply 4603/20/2011

[quote]You do all know that Patty Duke was offered the role first but thru negotiations it fell thru.... Thank god.

Yes, because "The Sterile Cuckoo" is such a monumental cinema classic it would be horrifying to think it can exist without the immortal performance of Miss Liza Minnelli. God forbid it should have been made by a real actress, something Liza has never been accused of being.

by Anonymousreply 4703/20/2011

Pooooooooooooooookie

by Anonymousreply 4803/20/2011

funny how it takes place over an Upstate New York winter bit it never snows.

by Anonymousreply 4903/20/2011

Liza at here best.

by Anonymousreply 5003/20/2011

[quote]Yes, because "The Sterile Cuckoo" is such a monumental cinema classic%0D %0D It's a delightful film, not worthy of your sarcasm & she was very, very good in it.%0D %0D It was quite sublte the inference that Jerry's roomie was gay, I thought.

by Anonymousreply 5103/20/2011

I found Tim McIntyre (the roommate) kinda hot. He died very young too.

by Anonymousreply 5203/20/2011

[quote]It was quite sublte the inference that Jerry's roomie was gay, I thought%0D %0D Pookie was pretty blunt about it when Jerry told her that his roommate asked him to go on a skiing trip and when she went nuts as she was piggy backing the roommate on the stairs of the dorm.

by Anonymousreply 5303/20/2011

The ambiguity was piled on so thickly when the movie dealt with the skiing trip Jerry took with his roommate that I don%E2%80%99t know [italic]what[/italic] to make of it. Can anyone who has read the book tell me if it gave any details that would make that part of the story clearer?

by Anonymousreply 5403/20/2011

I read that Judy did not want Liza to take the part because she considered Pookie psychotic and didn't think it would do Liza any good to get into the skin of such a girl.%0D %0D I think Liza should have won an Oscar for Pookie. I think it was the best role of her life. She was still a real actress back then, before she became "LIZA!"%0D %0D As a young teen I saw that film with a friend who was also obsessed with it 17 times. We both used to cry when we heard Come Saturday Morning anywhere. It became the theme song of our young friendship. I still tear up a little and wonder whatever became of my best friend ever. We parted ways in 1971 when he moved (actually ran away) to CA. While here NY was our playground. I heard he became very involved in drugs and went to live in a commune. He would call collect a few times and then I never heard from him again. I wonder if he's still alive and how he is. I tried Facebook, nothing. His family was from Jersey. I tired to find them too, also nothing. Oh well%E2%80%A6%0D

by Anonymousreply 5503/20/2011

[quote]Liza at here best.%0D %0D %0D %0D Oh, dear!

by Anonymousreply 5603/20/2011

r34 barbara parkins.

by Anonymousreply 5703/20/2011

"The ambiguity was piled on so thickly when the movie dealt with the skiing trip Jerry took with his roommate that I don't know what to make of it. Can anyone who has read the book tell me if it gave any details that would make that part of the story clearer?"%0D %0D In the book Jerry had TWO roommates but they were not portrayed as anything other than a couple of straight guys who were loutish drunks and sexual pigs (with women). No hints of latent homosexuality.

by Anonymousreply 5803/20/2011

Why did Pookie hate Nancy Putnam so much. She didn't seem all that terrible when she was playing guitar and talking to Jerry.

by Anonymousreply 5903/21/2011

Probably because she was so 'normal' & popular, R59. She was jealous of her.

by Anonymousreply 6003/21/2011

robbed of the Oscar

by Anonymousreply 6103/21/2011

Pookie was one jealous bitch. Anything that would burst the private bubble she wanted to keep Jerry enslaved in with her.

by Anonymousreply 6203/21/2011

In the book, it showed he was just as weird and just as anti-social. It also showed how he instigated the reunion after he saw her photo in a frosh book from a local girl's school and he went to see her.

She had dropped him earlier because he'd answered her letter.

by Anonymousreply 6303/21/2011

[quote]I think Liza should have won an Oscar for Pookie.

Sorry, the award should have gone to Jane Fonda in "They Shoot Horses Don't They?".

by Anonymousreply 6403/21/2011

I think Liza won the Golden Globe.

by Anonymousreply 6503/21/2011

No, she was nominated but Genevi%C3%A8ve Bujold won for "Anne of the Thousand Days".

by Anonymousreply 6603/21/2011

1969. Movies were really heating up for the magnificent 70s.

by Anonymousreply 6703/21/2011

Was Judy alive when Liza was Oscar nominated for CUCKOO? You never really hear that much about Judy and Vincent Minnelli being proud of their daughter for that fim and her industry recognition. Did Liza even attend the Academy Awards that year? It's as if her Oscar journey only began with CABARET. Odd.

by Anonymousreply 6803/22/2011

In the book, Pookie was the sole survivor of a horrific car crash that killed all her high school friends.

by Anonymousreply 6903/22/2011

No, she was dead by then, R68, just.

by Anonymousreply 7003/22/2011

Just to let you know...the DVD is finally coming out.

by Anonymousreply 7107/21/2012

Also, very interesting article on the making of the film on the TCM website.

by Anonymousreply 7207/21/2012

Jeez Louise! Was Liza EVER attractive? EVER?

by Anonymousreply 7307/21/2012

I agree with R6: the clothes (for both leads) are outstanding, and look both fresh and classic today.

by Anonymousreply 7407/21/2012

Liza is the spitting image of her dad.

by Anonymousreply 7507/21/2012

I think she looked her best in Stepping Out.

by Anonymousreply 7607/21/2012

[quote]the clothes (for both leads) are outstanding, and look both fresh and classic today.

Don't be ridiculous. They were dressed like the nerds they were supposed to be.

by Anonymousreply 7707/21/2012

My favorite moment was when Liza and Wendell get under the covers ( presumably naked.) she then lifts up the sheet and looks at his endowment, then smiles.

by Anonymousreply 7807/21/2012

The problem was, Liza wasn't acting.

by Anonymousreply 7907/21/2012

Was Judy alive when Liza was Oscar nominated for CUCKOO? You never really hear that much about Judy and Vincent Minnelli being proud of their daughter for that fim and her industry recognition. Did Liza even attend the Academy Awards that year? It's as if her Oscar journey only began with CABARET. Odd.

R68, Judy died the same year "Sterile Cuckoo" came out (1969). It was released 4 months after her death. Liza did attend the 1970 Oscars. Maggie Smith won (for "The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie"), but was not in attendance. Her Oscar was accepted by Alice Ghostley, of all people.

Incidentally, Judy was very much alive when Liza won the 1965 Tony for Best Actress in a Musical for "Flora, the Red Menace," but I haven't read much on Judy so I don't know how she felt about that. Vincente was at the 1973 ceremony when Liza won for "Cabaret." He was at her side and when she won he was visibly excited and proud of her.

by Anonymousreply 8007/21/2012

[quote]Vincente was at the 1973 ceremony when Liza won for "Cabaret."

He was also there to see her not get the Oscar for Cuckoo...see clip.

by Anonymousreply 8107/21/2012

I agree that Pookie is supposed to be a study in borderline personality disorder. A couple of the reviewers on IMDB mention that they were shown the film in psychology class.

"Tell Me That You Love Me, Junie Moon" is just grotesque. It's like an unfunny John Waters film.

by Anonymousreply 8207/21/2012

I was waiting for Bernice to sing "Black Man! Black Man!"

by Anonymousreply 8307/21/2012

A classic moment is when she's on the phone begging Jerry to come and be with her. He tells her very reasonably that he needs to concentrate on his schoolwork, but she starts babbling like a crazy person and appears to on the verge of a total mental breakdown until Jerry relents and tells her ok, he'll come and stay with her.

Liza Minnelli had two good roles in her brief film career: Pookie and "The Sterile Cuckoo" and Sally in "Cabaret." She WAS both of those nutty, unstable characters.

by Anonymousreply 8407/21/2012

Today is Wendell Burton's 65th birthday.

He was also the lead in FORTUNE AND MEN'S EYES.

by Anonymousreply 8507/21/2012

"Couldn't be made today." R14

Liza's too old

by Anonymousreply 8607/21/2012

Has Liza got one good film role left in her?

by Anonymousreply 8707/21/2012

He still looks good for his age.

by Anonymousreply 8807/21/2012

"God forbid it should have been made by a real actress, something Liza has never been accused of being"

The Oscar for CABARET notwithstanding, fool.

by Anonymousreply 8907/21/2012

Alice Ghostley accepted the Oscar for Smith because they had been friends since they both appeared in one of the "New Faces" reviews on Broadway back in the day. Ghostley also won a Best Featured Actress Tony for the Lorraine Hansberry play "The Sign in Sidney Brustein's Window"--she was a more varied and gifted actress than her (always enjoyable to me, anyway) stints on sitcoms might make you believe.

I always thought of Alice Ghostley as a more masculine version of Paul Lynde--but with more range.

by Anonymousreply 9007/21/2012

I saw the movie when I was 8-years-old with True Grit as part of the double feature.

It bothered me as a kid, and it still does to this day when I think about it. Her character was just too creepy for me.

I dislike all movies that have similar, nutty women characters in them.

The whole movie was just dark and depressing. Ick.

by Anonymousreply 9107/21/2012

In the book, he was just as creepy as she was, but either he grew out of it or learned to hide it.

by Anonymousreply 9207/21/2012

I thought her problem was just that she was insecure and couldn't connect with anyone and was trying too hard. I never thought she was creepy, she was just lonely and out of step with everyone else.

by Anonymousreply 9307/21/2012

[quote]I thought her problem was just that she was insecure and couldn't connect with anyone and was trying too hard. I never thought she was creepy, she was just lonely and out of step with everyone else.

That describes me to a T in college. I'm the one who posted about my crush on my roommate on the "Have you ever reduced another person to tears" thread? I didn't have friends and he was the first person I connected with on a human level and became obsessive and possessive of him. When he tried to include me with his friends, I retreated into my proverbial shell and became jealous when he'd interact with others. I was content just being the two of us (I preferred just staying in our dorms talking, playing on the computer, watching TV, playing board games), but he was a social butterfly and kind and friendly with everyone.

by Anonymousreply 9407/21/2012

So what happened to him R94, did he let you go gently the way Jerry did Pookie or did you remain friends?

by Anonymousreply 9507/21/2012

[quote] I never thought she was creepy, she was just lonely and out of step with everyone else.

I didn't think she was creepy either. Her cute little VW and she was so funny, so quirky. I wouldn't want her as a girlfriend though, if a girlfriend was what I actually wanted.

I loved her turn of phrase. What were all those references to ham on rye?

& the way she kept telling people their mother had just died in Rhode Island.

& the fact she was carrying one of those little '60s portable record players when she first met Jer' on the bus and the way she called him Jer'. It was such an inspired performance.

by Anonymousreply 9607/21/2012

It's a long, involved story, but I'll try to be succinct. Basically, we had a near-perfect freshman year (1998-1999). He befriended me and I slowly opened up to him, as I had never done with anyone before. I eventually came out to him when I kissed his cheek spontaneously, and after he calmed me down (I'd burst into tears 'cause I was embarrassed and thought it was the end of the friendship), we had a heart-to-heart. He was flattered, but he let it be known that he was straight, though he said hugging was fine. And from then on, I was very touchy-feely with him. When we were alone, I always had my arms around him somehow. We also started sleeping in the same bed 'cause I was afraid of the dark.

Over the summer, I was invited to stay over his house, met his family (parents, 2 older sisters), and his childhood friends, including his best friend. They'd known each other since they were toddlers and were like brothers. They'd played football, baseball, hockey in high school, and enjoyed basketball as recreation. Also snowboarding. And he was just as social. I remember feeling jealous that they had so much in common. We didn't really. I had no interest in sports and I'd get him to watch old movies and musicals, but I think he was humoring me even though he'd say he enjoyed them afterward.

Anyway, it was cool getting to see a slice of his life. He hosted a pool party (which apparently was an annual tradition) where lots of his friends came (even some he'd made in college, like me), but I was too shy and overwhelmed by all the people, loud music, various conversations going on at the same time. I endured it, but I didn't have fun. It wasn't until everyone left the next day and it was just the two of us (his parents were away for the week, his eldest sister no longer lived at home, and his next older sister was with her boyfriend) that I began to relax again.

I'm getting too verbose here, so I'll get on with it. Sophomore year was not as fun. I began to experience separation anxiety and withdrawals when he was not nearby. He started to like some girl and I became very jealous and threatened, to the point that I decked him in the nose with my elbow during an argument. This reduced him to tears and is the story I shared on that thread. We made up, and then that summer (2000)I was hospitalized after an attempted suicide. I was so in love with him, I couldn't conceive of a life without him, especially a life without him as my boyfriend. I'd also suffered from depression as a teen and been diagnosed with PTSD and Borderline Personality Disorder (and at one point Aspergers, but they later said it was a misdiagnosis), so it was a combination of many things.

Needless to say, he was upset about the suicide attempt and gave me a what-for when I was released after a week. But he remained supportive nonetheless, even after his friends tried to talk him into dropping me. He told me this, which made me hate them even more.

Junior year (2000-2001) was just a disaster! If things were bad the previous year, they were worse this time around. I became verbally abusive to him (in private) and even slapped him during an argument where I became hysterical, which he didn't take lying down this time. He smacked me back (for which he later apologized) and pinned me down on the floor until I cooled down. I also started missing classes, and eventually had a breakdown in January. It was before classes resumed and I never went back. I still kept in touch with him, sometimes on the phone, but mainly via e-mail.

Then in March I got a long e-mail from him, saying that after a lot of consideration, it would be best that we part ways. He mentioned my refusal to accept help. (After high school, I'd stopped medication in an effort to be more normal, and even after my suicide attempt, I refused to consider it, which he didn't approve of.) He reiterated that I had a problem and until I sought help for it, we couldn't be friends 'cause I'd become a sort of "poison" in his life, and he didn't need the stress and negativity.

by Anonymousreply 9707/21/2012

Well, the Message Box wouldn't let me write more, so I have to continue here:

He concluded his e-mail by saying that he'd tried his very best to be a good friend to me, especially considering my upbringing, but no matter what he did, I didn't seem to appreciate nor care, and that it was like fighting a losing battle. There was nothing more he could do for me; the rest was up to me.

That's the last I heard from him. I sent him a card for his birthday that August, but never received a reply. I wish things had been so different. Or at least, that I'd been different. Maybe then we'd still be friends. I've been thinking about him a lot lately and as a result have been nostalgic about our 2 1/2 year friendship, especially freshman year. He was the closest I came to having a best friend, or any sort of friend. My friends now consist mainly of my sibling's friends. I don't have any of my own.

by Anonymousreply 9807/21/2012

Wow R97/98, what a story! It's pretty close to Pookie's in many ways - your relationship with this guy could be made into a movie too.

by Anonymousreply 9907/22/2012

He sounds like a nice guy R98. No wonder you liked him so much, but remember you can feel the same way about someone else when you're ready. We often think there'll never be another, but it's just a trick of the mind.

Sounds like you need to sort things out in your head first. No time like the present.

by Anonymousreply 10007/22/2012

He was a great guy. Truly exceptional. I just wish I'd been fully aware of it then. I think that is what he meant when he wrote that no matter what he did, it didn't seem to matter (to me) in the end. I was too self-absorbed.

Not that I didn't notice his kindness. Upon our first meeting I could tell he was nice -- and gorgeous! (haha) He had a sweet face, smiling eyes, infectious smile, and immediately introduced himself to me, hand extended. But during our first month as roommates, I kept him at a distance, as I had most people in my life. For example, he'd try to make small talk, but I gave one-syllable answers and the conversation soon died, or he'd invite me to the rec room or go out with his newly-formed college friends, but I always declined. Instead, I stayed in my room, read, listened to music, or just fantasized. (As a child, I'd learned to escape into my mind as a coping mechanism.)

Then one day in September he caught me bawling my eyes out. I was alone in the room and became overwhelmed by my new surroundings, strange people, not to mention I'd gone off my meds in an attempt to be normal, and all I wanted was to go back to the residential home, which is where I spent the latter part of my teens. He walked in and saw me crying. Naturally, he asked what was wrong. At first I waved him off and said, "Nothing," but he came forward and sat on the edge of my bed. He became very gentle and soft-spoken and told me it was okay, that I could tell him. After much coaxing, I finally admitted that I was homesick, but I didn't elaborate that it was not for my (adoptive) family's home, but he assumed that's what I'd meant 'cause he said something like, "That's normal. I miss my family, too," This got the ball rolling and we had a nice discussion about family and the importance of friends. Mainly, I let him talk about his. I wasn't prepared to discuss mine.

After that, we became more social with each other, but mainly in our room. I still declined to go out with his buds. When Halloween came, I helped him with his costume, specifically with the makeup. He'd bought an Edward Scissorhands costume, and all he had to do was apply the makeup. I'd always been artistic and offered to do it for him when he was having trouble getting it just right. He was very pleased with the end result and invited me one last time to go to the party with him, but I said no.

As our friendship blossomed, I began to share more with him. Personal stuff about my biological/adoptive families. I even told him how cruel kids were to me in high school. I had no friends, was very shy and timid, which I guess made me an easy target. He was appalled and said his school wasn't like that, that if he had seen anyone bullied he'd done something about it. Of course, this endeared him more to me.

One of my cherished memories is when I introduced him to "The Wizard of Oz." It had been one of my favorite films as a kid and I was surprised that he had never seen it. It came up 'cause there was a re-issue that fall and though he said he'd known of it, he'd never been exposed to it or really had had a desire to see it. This was unacceptable and I told him we simply had to watch it together. I was excited, too, 'cause it was my first time seeing it on the big screen. Afterward, he said he enjoyed it, and I was pleased.

Just writing all that gave me a bittersweet feeling. He was so good to me and for me, but I was not good for him. Maybe now I'd be a better friend, but back then I didn't know how to be. The friendship was too centered on me and my needs. I wonder if he ever thinks of me fondly, or maybe I'm just a negative experience in his life. Well, the latter doesn't ring true. He was too much of an optimist and always saw the good in people. Maybe he saw some good in me -- or perhaps he just pitied me.

by Anonymousreply 10107/22/2012

Come Saturday morning, I'm goin' away with my friend We'll Saturday-spend till the end of the day, just I and my friend We'll travel for miles in our Saturday smiles and then we'll move on But we will remember long after Saturday's gone

Come Saturday morning, come Saturday morning

Come Saturday morning, I'm goin' away with my friend We'll Saturday-laugh more than half of the day, just I and my friend (My friend) Dressed up in our rings and our Saturday things and then we'll move on But we will remember long after Saturday's gone

Come Saturday morning, come Saturday morning

Come Saturday morning, just I and my friend (Saturday, my friend) We'll travel for miles in our Saturday smiles and then we'll move on But we will remember long after Saturday's gone

Come Saturday morning, come Saturday morning Come Saturday morning, come Saturday morning

Come Saturday morning, come Saturday morning Come Saturday morning, come Saturday morning

Come Saturday morning, come Saturday morning Come Saturday morning, come

by Anonymousreply 10207/22/2012

I love that song R102.

by Anonymousreply 10307/22/2012

I think I saw Sterile Cuckoo sometime in the mid seventies as a late Saturday night movie on TV. I was about twelve or thirteen I guess.

Don't remember much about the film at all - except an impression that Liza was kind of both fabulous and disturbing - and I think I ended up with some fag hags who were just a little bit similar in my later teen years...

The other thing was Wendell Burton. I thought he was the bomb - and I think he was an early jerk-off fantasy for a very long time after (along with young Beau Bridges - I think I saw him in Gaily, Gaily around the same time - lol!)

by Anonymousreply 10407/23/2012

Also - R101, etc -

I gotta wonder if you're not being a bit too hard on yourself?

I mean - you had some issues - and froendships and socializing were not easy for you - so of course when you did make a friend, you kind of fell pretty hard & became a bit dependent and obsessive. Hardly a surprise.

But he did sound like a great guy - and from his responses, he seems to have really valued you as well and got a lot out of it. You're a unique being as well - and probably offered a lot of insight and stimulation he didn't get from other people.

Anyway - any chance that you're a fantasy & sf reader at all? If so - then maybe you should start attending cons and mixing in that millieu - because really - I don't think you'd be that out-of-the-ordinary there - and might just meet some great people you van relate to.

Just a thought. I had some of the issues you did about socializing - tho less severe - and I found a lot of kindred spirits and made some fantastic friends in sf fandom...

by Anonymousreply 10507/23/2012

Was this the film Kay Thompson was also in?

Or was that JUNIE MOON?

I know Liza got her godmother a small part in one of these early films....

by Anonymousreply 10607/23/2012

If you slept together in the same bed, you were more than friends, dearie.

by Anonymousreply 10707/23/2012

Patty Duke was originally thought of by the producers, but the part went to Liza, not sure why?

by Anonymousreply 10807/24/2012

R107, nothing sexual happened between us. He made it clear that he was straight, but he would allow me to cuddle with him. I guess he could see that I was starved for affection. I didn't have a conventional upbringing, and I had a case of arrested development. (That's my own self-diagnosis in retrospect.)

But he was quite affectionate himself. Very loving and demonstrative with his parents, sisters, relatives. He always hugged them, and he always told them "I love you" in person or on the phone. He was the same way with all his friends, too. Well, maybe not as tender with his male buds, but they did do the bro hug a lot, and he said he loved his childhood best friend 'cause he was more like a brother, since he had no brothers of his own.

But I was not like his other male friends, and I think that's why he treated me differently. With kid gloves, if you will. Especially when I told him more about my childhood, how I'd been pretty much neglected until I was 8. The guy had a genuine heart of gold and I can't express enough how much it meant to me.

by Anonymousreply 10907/24/2012

EST R109, doesn't happen in the real world.

by Anonymousreply 11007/25/2012

Tim McIntyre was Orson Welles son.

by Anonymousreply 11107/25/2012

Orson Welles son ? He was John McIntire & Jeanette Nolan's son. Unless you know something I don't ?

by Anonymousreply 11207/25/2012

Supposedly Nolan was doing a play with Welles and got pregnant with their son. Her husband John McIntire raised Tim as his son and he took his name. Look at the picture at the link and draw your own conclusion.

by Anonymousreply 11307/25/2012

That Orson got around.

He's also the father of Michael Lindsay-Hogg, who directed LET IT BE and the TV BRIDESHEAD REVISITED. His mother, Geraldine Fitzgerald, was doing a play with Orson in NY when she got pregnant, and her husband at the time was said to be the father. Michael wrote a book about the search for his "real" father that's very good, and in his older age he looks amazingly like Orson as well...

by Anonymousreply 11407/25/2012

R110, I know I can be verbose, but I'm no troll. I've just been thinking a lot about him lately, but I've had nobody to talk to. A couple people commented and I've just elaborated on their questions. But I've hijacked the thread, so I apologize to the OP.

by Anonymousreply 11507/25/2012

Oh I enjoyed reading it R38. I have often been like your friend, being drawn to wounded birds, and usually they end like yours did. I think people who have been mistreated often have to vent that behavior back... maybe it was a test to see if I would stay or run away, maybe it is because they are still living in the painful place in their head and have not moved past the mistreatment/abuse, but I have had probably 4 relationships similar to the one you describe over the years and eventually have had to extract myself slowly.

I don't want to hurt you R38, but in my case I wish each of these people well, but have avoided reconnecting with any of them, the relationships were exhausting. And once you move away from them, and no longer have an obligation to be there for them, you don't really miss them. Now I view allowing myself to get drawn into each of those relationships as poor judgements on my part, although I obviously got something from it at the time, even if it was just confirmation to myself that I was a kind person.

Really, don't spend much time mooning over your relationship. He was kind to you, but it was of the moment. If it would help with closure and moving on, let me suggest you write a letter telling him how much you appreciate the friendship he gave you and many of the things you wrote here. But make sure and put in the line "Please don't write me back, that is not the purpose of the this letter. I just wanted you to know it meant more to me than you could know and far more than I conveyed to you at that time." Letters asking for nothing are more meaningful, and my guess is, if he is anything like me, he won't want to re-establish any contact, but if you indicated you were hoping for that, he would feel guilty for not doing so, so any good feelings you would send him for being your friend would be canceled out by the guilt over not contacting you.

by Anonymousreply 11607/26/2012

R116, thanks for your kind and insightful post. It helped put things a bit in perspective. I have thought about contacting him but never seriously. I don't have his e-mail/home address, anyway. It's been over 10 years since we last communicated, and in that time I impetuously went on a rampage where I deleted/got rid of everything about everyone who did me wrong.

In retrospect, I can't fault him, but at the time I felt that he left me high and dry. I'd had a breakdown, dropped out of college, and was majorly depressed. The last thing I needed was for my best and only friend to abandon me, which is what I felt he'd done. I especially felt betrayed 'cause he'd sworn he'd never do that after I'd confessed that I had a fear of abandonment.

I remember when I first received his "farewell e-mail," I felt so gutted, but I also had expected it. I'd always known it would end like this. (Call it a self-fulfilling prophecy, if you must.) But then it turned to anger when it hit me that he was a fraud. After all, he'd presented himself as someone different, but he was just like everyone else. Then I started to question everything about our friendship and felt duped. But even so, I still felt something for him, and 5 months later I sent him a birthday card as a peace offering of sorts. I didn't write anything inside, just signed my name, but he never responded, and that was that.

For the longest time, I was so mad at him. It wasn't until the past couple years that I began to look back at that time nostalgically and taking responsibility for my part. Therapy helped a lot. But it's mostly time and maturity. Granted, I have more self-awareness today and can make small-talk with people when need be, but I'm still an introvert and homebody.

Anyway, on a whim I've also checked out Facebook, but I found so many listings with his name. I did look at several, but I gave up. It was a half-hearted attempt, really. To tell the truth, I'm not too keen on making contact. My life has never improved, and I spent the past decade in and out of psychiatric hospitals. Thus, I've never been able to hold down a job and am currently unemployed. I'm 32 and have nothing to show for it -- no job, no degree, no significant other, no friends, no life really. He probably has some upscale job, gorgeous wife, beautiful children, many friends. He had a lot of potential. I remember in his HS yearbook he was voted "Most Likely to Succeed," and I have no doubt that he did -- in career and romance... and friendships, which he was already rich in, anyway. It would be a downgrade for him (and an embarrassment for me) if we were to reunite.

Thanks again for your contribution. It does help to give me an idea of what it was like for him then and what he may think now. At the time, I was self-absorbed and too concerned about my wants and needs, I never really thought about his. Also, allow me to thank you on your former friends' behalf. Even though we came off selfish and ungrateful, your kindness and acceptance meant a lot, if not everything.

by Anonymousreply 11707/26/2012

You write beautifully, you have a talent for that and are obviously intelligent. Perhaps explore some attainable job/career options that would use that talent. If nothing else (and this might just be a start, as it is not the best option since you won't be mixing with people) you might consider being a customer service rep for online ordering. I do quite a bit of shopping on-line and the C.S. rep pops up in the little chat box to answer questions. I can certainly tell the difference when it is someone here in this country and when it at an overseas operation. clarity of writing, and ability to hit the right tone makes the experience much nicer. I think most of them work from home at their computer and just need a fast connection and a newer computer that allows them to pull up technical manuels for the product while conducting the chat. One of those friends I was talking about worked from home as a medical transcriptionist. She had a 162 IQ but also a lot of problems, but her intelligence allowed her to quickly learn all the medical terms, anatomy, etc. She could hold her own in conversations with my physician friends. Anyway, if you could get some employment, it might give you a foothold to building your life. 32 is not too old to do so. I am sure it all seems overwhelming but chop it up into attainable little chunks. Best of luck to you, and I hope you make another friend or two as well. When you do, don't get too intense nor test them to see that they will leave you. Just enjoy the present moment with your future friend and don't allow yourself to play either victim or hero. You need a true friendship where you have a bit more equality than your friendship with your former roommate, you would always feel "less than" around such a gifted person. One thing I do know. The world is full of lonely people, and it would be good for you to be kind to some of them. It flows back to you. Take care.

by Anonymousreply 11807/28/2012

Interesting clip of Pookie/Liza from the same year, 1969.

by Anonymousreply 11906/26/2013
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