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McKenzie Phillips family has shut her out because of her sexual relationship with her father

how provincial

by Gwynethreply 17012/15/2013

Family meals would be difficult: no fish, no chicken.

by Gwynethreply 102/23/2011

She says they all knew about it beforehand and are just mad that she went public. Michelle Phillips apparently also publicly responded with "After 35 years with a needle up her arm (including several months while she was pregnant) it's difficult to believe much of her story." Wow, stay classy, Michelle.

by Gwynethreply 202/23/2011

Hold on McKenzie! Hold On!

by Gwynethreply 402/23/2011

All of her siblings made public statements supporting her when the revelations first hit. Only Michelle Phillips trashed her.

What happened to change her siblings' minds?

by Gwynethreply 602/23/2011

There was absolutely no reason for this weirdo to come out and tell everyone about this. Talk about with her therapist but don't go on tv with a book!

by Gwynethreply 702/23/2011

I'm surprised Chynna has seemed to turn against her. She went on "Oprah" when Mackenzie was also on and supported her then.

by Gwynethreply 802/23/2011

I thought Chynna and Bijou were her half-sisters, not her step-sisters.

by Gwynethreply 902/23/2011

It wasn't consensual. She was deluded to think it was because she let it go on, but like most abuse survivors, she wasn't enjoying it. Oprah could have told her that if she wasn't so nasty towards her.%0D %0D The family knows it happened and that's why their distancing themselves from her. They can't handle the truth.

by Gwynethreply 1002/23/2011

Oprah tends to be very cold to victims of sexual abuse. I think it's cuz she hasn't dealt, truly, with her own issues around her own abuse.

I read Mackenzie's book and she never did 12 step. And clearly, she hadn't addressed the issue of the incest in therapy either. It's too bad, because she seems to have a really good heart, but she needs help.

by Gwynethreply 1102/23/2011

Why is this a big issue for people? I find it kind of romantic.

by Gwynethreply 1202/23/2011

[quote]There was absolutely no reason for this weirdo to come out and tell everyone about this. Talk about with her therapist but don't go on tv with a book!

As sweet little Reply 7 skipping down the street with animated Bluebirds circling his head. She is an abuse victim of horrific proportions. She had the ultimate betrayal. The person you are are supposed to love and trust the most shot her with heroin and raped her continuously and literally fucked her up for her entire life. Victims need to talk to let the demons go, or they self medicate until they die.

by Gwynethreply 1302/23/2011

[quote]Wow, stay classy, Michelle.

Michelle Phillips a person of dubious talent relies on royalties from The Mamas & the Papas and saw that going down the drain upon MaKenzie's book.

by Gwynethreply 1402/23/2011

They're all just pissed they didn't get a cut of the book proceeds.

by Gwynethreply 1502/23/2011

I just finished Keith Richards's book, in which he says he's the one who introduced John Phillips to drugs, and regrets it, as much as Keith can regret anything. He also says that John went WAY overboard with them, also something coming from Keith. He tells a story that at one point, John was picking at "bugs" coming through his skin, and calling his friends up and saying: "I got one."

by Gwynethreply 1602/23/2011

John Phillips was a fucked up genius. What a waste of talent.

by Gwynethreply 1702/23/2011

So true, r17.

by Gwynethreply 1802/23/2011

[quote]I'm surprised Chynna has seemed to turn against her. She went on "Oprah" when Mackenzie was also on and supported her then

Chynna still believes her she told Howard Stern that they are just taking a break from each other.

by Gwynethreply 1902/23/2011

This is very odd because I saw an exploration of the Black Dahlia on one of those "ID" shows a few weeks back. One of the suspected killers was profiled and he was a deeply corrupt man who allegedly molested his daughter. Michelle was interviewed as she was friends with the daughter and was completely backing her story. Her words were startling in light of how she's disavowed Mackenzie's story.

by Gwynethreply 2002/23/2011

[quote]Victims need to talk to let the demons go, or they self medicate until they die. Why, though, is it necessary to talk to the whole world? I mean, it's her story to tell, and too bad for her family if they don't like her telling it, but really--why the hell would you want to air that shit so publicly? And what about abuse victims who aren't famous, and aren't given a platform to tell the whole planet about their abuse? Are they doomed to "self medicate until they die" because telling family, friends, and/or a therapist just wasn't enough?

by Gwynethreply 2102/23/2011

He divorced McKenzie's mom to take-up with Michelle, so there must have been some bad blood through the years.

by Gwynethreply 2202/23/2011

It is fairly common in families that they tend to be in denial about abuse and 'protect' and back-up the abuser.

by Gwynethreply 2302/23/2011

[quote]Michelle Phillips a person of dubious talent relies on royalties from The Mamas & the Papas and saw that going down the drain upon MaKenzie's book.%0D %0D Well, remember Michelle was married to this monster and somehow has to rationalize, justify or deny having been in a romantic relationship with someone who was capable of fucking his own daughter.

by Gwynethreply 2402/23/2011

I thought I spied her for a split second in the original V miniseries.

by Gwynethreply 2502/23/2011

MacKenzie Phillips says she has sex with her father, and that it was consensual. And now she's says it wasn't. She can't keep her story straight. And that may well be all that it is: a story. Maybe she's lying; maybe she made up the incest angle to see more books. It's not inconceiveable that it's all bullshit. Roseanne Barr recently recanted HER incest accusations. I personally think that Phillips is a wacko who will say anything.

by Gwynethreply 2602/23/2011

[quote]MacKenzie Phillips says she has sex with her father, and that it was consensual. And now she's says it wasn't. She can't keep her story straight. And that may well be all that it is: a story.

You're not very bright, are you ? NO child of incest consents. She blamed herself because she is damaged from years of drug abuse. She learned in therapy it wasn't her fault. She didn't change her story, she learned the truth.

by Gwynethreply 2702/23/2011

%0D [quote]She can't keep her story straight. And that may well be all that it is: a story. Maybe she's lying; maybe she made up the incest angle to see more books. %0D %0D There is no way she is making it up for the book. Who would do that???? There were many people (family and friends) that knew about it years before the book came out.

by Gwynethreply 2802/23/2011

[quote]She is an abuse victim of horrific proportions. She had the ultimate betrayal.

And?

[quote]The person you are are supposed to love and trust the most shot her with heroin and raped her continuously and literally fucked her up for her entire life.

And?

[quote]Victims need to talk to let the demons go, or they self medicate until they die.

Yes, in therapy not on a talkshow with her book in hand. I bet the nauseating drama queen @r13 stumbles down the street trying to get the bats out of her belfry.

by Gwynethreply 2902/23/2011

We're not talking Beaver Cleaver's house with Ward and June and brother Wally in Mayfield.%0D %0D The Phillips' household was probably pretty screwed up. Some family members say they didn't know about Mackenzie. Well, that's how abuse goes--most other family members don't know...or they know something is wrong or weird--but they don't know what.%0D %0D Regarding consensual or nonconsensual, who the hell knows...including Mackenzie. Maybe it was a little of both. When something like that starts young, you might just go along with it. And then as time goes on, you're so screwed up, you just put up with it until it goes away. Is that consensual? Probably not. Instead, it's a big mess.%0D %0D I tend to believe that Mackenzie is not making this up--no matter how it happened, to what degree or whatever the dynamics were that lead up to it or allowed it to continue. And so what if Michelle Phillips didn't know. She's no example of virtue--not to say that she would have condoned something so horrible.%0D %0D But abusers don't tell what they're doing--and the abused don't tell and instead live in their own private hell via lonliness, drugs, messed up relationships, etc. Michelle Phillips didn't know because she didn't know--no matter what the abuse was. It's really as simple and as complicated as that.

by Gwynethreply 3002/23/2011

R9 They ARE her half-sisters. They all have John as their father. The article in R2's link got it wrong.

by Gwynethreply 3102/23/2011

All the more reason that I shall have richly deserved my Academy Award for Best Performance by an Actress in Leading Role.

by Gwynethreply 3202/23/2011

I think she's telling the truth. Her father was a dirty hippie, for God's sake!

by Gwynethreply 3302/23/2011

R13 is absolutely right. Victims must talk to let the demons go, so it makes sense that Ultra-Super-Abuse-Victims of Cosmic Proportions, such as Mackenzie, must talk to the entire world over and over again in order to gather the rough edges of her gaping wounds together. And write books. And complain that for some reason her confessions have not brought her family closer to her. It is just too bad that her heinous abuse occurred before videography technology became so easily accessible. I just know she would be helped even more if she had the opportunity to heal by being able to distribute recordings of her encounters with John over those 10 years. Boxed sets. Ka-Ching.

by Gwynethreply 3402/23/2011

r10, don't kid yourself. McKenzie enjoyed it.

by Gwynethreply 3502/23/2011

R27,there is a BIG difference between a child being coerced into a incestuous relationship with her father, and a grown woman having repetitive sex with her dad.%0D %0D Both McKenzie and her dad were sick if this really took place. Why didn't she confess all of this while her dad was alive? No, she pulled a Christina Crawford and spilled her guts to the world after the so-called alleged perpetrator was 6 feet under.%0D %0D No wonder her family is dissing her.

by Gwynethreply 3602/23/2011

If someone's having sex with you while you're out of your mind on drugs, that by definition is not consensual. It's called chemical rape, and when the man who's doing it to you also happens to be your father, and is doing it for the entertainment of another man who's watching it happen--which was how it happened the first time, according to the book--I would imagine this might have made her a little unbalanced. I mean, what do you do when you find your father on top of you grinding away while another guy watches? Slap his face and say, "Sir, how dare you?" It was her father. He was a pop star. It was the seventies. Maybe she thought the best way to deal with it was to pretend to herself that it was really okay and try not to make a big deal out of it. Look what happened to her when she did.

by Gwynethreply 3802/23/2011

I posted earlier on this thread that the age at which this all started was what puzzled me. According to her book, she first had sex with her father the night before her wedding. She was 19 at the time and said that she had blacked out and woke up to find that her father had had sex with her. I totally believe that this happened. But, why, when she was going off with another man would she come back to have sex with her father for 10 years? It doesn't seem the "typical" case of incest that starts when a kid is younger and powerless to get away from what is happening.%0D %0D Even if the relationship is seen on some level as consensual because she came back to her father when she didn't have to, I do think she was a very sick drug addict that was taken advantage of by a vile and evil man.

by Gwynethreply 3902/23/2011

r38, that makes no sense at all.

by Gwynethreply 4002/23/2011

Every 7 years, she hits the talk show circuit with salacious stories each more sordid than the last. I'd be pissed too. Junkies lie.

by Gwynethreply 4102/23/2011

R38 What if the man who's doing it to you is ALSO out of his mind on drugs at the time?

by Gwynethreply 4202/23/2011

19 is very young and your parents still hold some persuation over your mind, especially in a drug environment. And just because a rape victim might react physically to rape doesn't make it consensual. Young chidren might react to fondling but it is still rape. With drugs, the craziness, and her being a teenager, it must have all been very confusing. In some warped way she might have continued the sex to persuade herself she wasn't really raped by her father and there was something normal about it. Otherwise, she would have to confront the issue and decide how to deal with it. Call the police and report on an icon? Maybe in adulthood it was still easier for her not to deal with the fact that her father raped her even though she obviously wanted the validation from the public through the book that he was a really crappy father who went way out of bounds and he was not the person/father we would want to believe he was despite his drug use. Maybe writing about it was subconsciously her first step in forcing herself to deal with it. I just don't believe she would lie about this. And Michelle Phillips, who dated Beatty, Nicholson, and the likes, and thinks she is pretty hot stuff has to deal with the fact that when she was married to him he might have really harbored sexual feelings for his daughter who was far less attractive than her. I believe that is why she is so angry. I think it takes a big jab at her sexual self-worth.

by Gwynethreply 4302/23/2011

John Phillips left his wife and children to date Michelle - she was 17 at the time.

by Gwynethreply 4402/23/2011

Michelle screwed over everyone in that band. She screwed over John, Denny and Cass and they got sick of it and fired her. She then put her tail between her legs and begged John to take her back. She's very conscious of her legacy and she's made a cottage industry of talking about her life and the men she's been with. She had no problem trashing John publicly for many years, but this she's embarrassed by. Actually if she had been a better stepmom, maybe Mackenzie wouldn't have ended up with that needle in her arm.

by Gwynethreply 4502/23/2011

Wow. So that tells Michelle that he didn't leave his family not so much because she was unbelievably hot but because he had a thing for teenagers. Mackenzie was not a looker, so apparently any teenager, even his daughter, would do for him. Yeah, that would alter Michelle's opinion of her relationship with him.

by Gwynethreply 4602/23/2011

John Phillips made one album, two at the outside, produced by pop genius Lou Adler that had any artistic merit or impact. After that Lou Adler split and John was a waste case. In comparison with other productive sixties legends a complete nothing. He became very smarmy and unattractive -- always implicitly boasting of his addictions and compulsions in interviews and songs. "Young girls are coming to the canyon" "Snow queen of Texas" and others. It is silly to memorialize this relative nonentity -- his daughter is a creep to keep the story going.

by Gwynethreply 4702/23/2011

[quote]Maybe she's lying; maybe she made up the incest angle to see more books. It's not inconceiveable that it's all bullshit. Roseanne Barr recently recanted HER incest accusations.%0D %0D You may be right. We all know it helps sell books if you include some off-beat sex story.

by Gwynethreply 4802/24/2011

" And Michelle Phillips, who dated Beatty, Nicholson, and the likes, and thinks she is pretty hot stuff has to deal with the fact that when she was married to him he might have really harbored sexual feelings for his daughter who was far less attractive than her."

OK, Beatty I'll give you. He was/is handsome. But Nicholson was always fugly. Never understood why people thought he was attractive at all.

by Gwynethreply 5002/24/2011

[quote]Actually if she had been a better stepmom, maybe Mackenzie wouldn't have ended up with that needle in her arm.

I hate Michelle, who has always come across as a whiny spoiled brat, but to be fair she was only 18 when married to John. She was in her early 20s when Mackenzie visited John for his court-ordered visitation rights. So to an extent, it's not fair to hold her completely responsible... but on the other hand, Michelle WAS an adult in that situation and had the power to help Mackenzie but chose not to. I suspect she just didn't care about Mackenzie (or anyone else) and couldn't be bothered to help the girl, but since she DID help John keep Mackenzie from going back to her mother and allowed a 12-year-old girl to do drugs and have sex without a single attempt at intervention, she has some culpability.

And knowing all that plus how she fucked with every other member of The Mamas and the Papas, she has the gall to say Mackenzie is a drug-addled liar? It's really beyond bitchy.

In another note, I think Michelle edits her own Wikipedia page. "Phillips is renowned for her youthful appearance which she attributes, in part, to staying completely away from direct sunlight." Haha right, lady.

by Gwynethreply 5102/24/2011

Does the wiki note that Michelle is married to a plastic surgeon? I'm sure there's a family discount ;)

by Gwynethreply 5202/24/2011

"DAMMIT JULIE!"

by Gwynethreply 5302/24/2011

Wow. This thread has WAY too many Oprah watchers on it.

They were both seriously fucked up on drugs. She's changed her story. First she said it was consensual, then changed her story when that didn't get her the reaction she wanted. They had sex- supposedly- for TEN YEARS. That's not rape. She might be a victim of her own dysfunction, but she's not a rape victim.

Frankly, I don't believe her. She's a junkie trying to sell a book, and junkies will lie about anything.

Telling the story to a therapist is one thing. She's revealing it to the world so she can make a buck from her book. That's not healthy, it's dysfunctional.

by Gwynethreply 5402/24/2011

"You're not very bright, are you ? NO child of incest consents. She blamed herself because she is damaged from years of drug abuse. She learned in therapy it wasn't her fault. She didn't change her story, she learned the truth."%0D %0D Oh shut up, you fucking idiot. If you're a child or young teenager it can't be called consent. But if you are an ADULT and have sex with your father then it becomes a choice. I'm sick of hearing Phillips blame everything on drugs. She was an adult and she CHOSE to fuck her father. She didn't have to but she did. And one day she just told him she wouldn't do it anymore. It was HER decision, and she was never so whacked out on drugs that she didn't know what she was doing. %0D %0D "There is no way she is making it up for the book. Who would do that???? There were many people (family and friends) that knew about it years before the book came out."%0D %0D Who would do that? Well, Roseanne Barr, for one. She wrote of her father's abominable behavior and now she has recanted. There have been plenty of cases people have recanted their tales of sexual abuse. And if her family and friends knew about it, then why did not ONE of them do anything? Were they ALL desperate to protect the Mamas and the Papas "brand", as Phillips says Michelle Phillips is? I wouldn't think that the Mamas and Papas "brand" would be worth so much that nobody would want to report child molestion in order to preserve it. But then maybe Phillip's friends and relatives thought that she LIKED what was going on. And indeed she let it go on long after she was in a position to put a stop to it. %0D %0D There are women who have consenual sex with their fathers. A woman named Kathryn Harrison wrote a book called "The Kiss", which documented how she was "seduced" by her father when she was twenty and the four year affair with him that followed. Anais Nin had an affair with her father, and chronicled it in her book simply titled "Incest." %0D %0D In MacKenzie Phillip's case I think that she was crazy, her father was crazy, and that the two of them having sex didn't seem like that big of a deal. %0D %0D %0D %0D .%0D %0D

by Gwynethreply 5502/25/2011

R55 nails it. Absolutely right.

by Gwynethreply 5602/25/2011

Another vote for r55!

by Gwynethreply 5702/25/2011

I also agree with R55. This is a case of incest, not rape. She was an adult and could have stopped anytime she wanted. They didn't even live together and he never threatened to harm he if she stopped seeing him. It was a choice, a sick one but not less a choice.

by Gwynethreply 5802/25/2011

If Macenzie made it up for the book why would Chyna say she knoew about it for 10 years?%0D %0D Quotes from Chyna Phillips from Oprah:%0D %0D [quote]Mackenzie's half-sister, Chynna Phillips, appeared live with Oprah and said that her mother, Michelle, is angry. "It's not something that my mom wants plastered all over the papers," she said, backing up her sister's side of the story.%0D %0D [quote]But Chynna Phillips admitted she, too, shared some of her mother's sentiment: "Am I exceedingly joyful that my family secret that I told my therapist, my husband and my very best friend in the whole word [is now public]? No."%0D %0D [quote]Nevertheless, she said, she has known about the situation for 12 years and, while she wasn't certain that her sister could be entirely accurate about the details, definitely believed that the two were sexually involved for a decade.%0D %0D [quote]"I was completely stunned," she said when Mackenzie shared the secret. "I walked around in a comatose state for about 10 days."%0D %0D

by Gwynethreply 5902/25/2011

If If Macenzie made it up for the book, why would Bijou lie?%0D %0D [quote]Actress Bijou Phillips says she knew her half-sister Mackenzie Phillips had consensual sex with their father, Mamas and the Papas leader John Phillips.%0D %0D [quote]In a statement read by Oprah Winfrey on her talk show Friday, Bijou Phillips says she was 13 years old when Mackenzie Phillips told her about the sexual relationship.%0D %0D [quote]Bijou Phillips is now 29 and says the news was confusing and scary. She says it was "heartbreaking" to think her family would leave her alone with her father.%0D %0D

by Gwynethreply 6002/25/2011

Michelle Phillips was a complete whore.

by Gwynethreply 6102/25/2011

[quote]Actress Bijou Phillips

Snort. Apparently any idiot can call themselves an actress.

by Gwynethreply 6202/25/2011

They didn't have sex for regularly for 10 years. The first encounter she woke up with her father on top of her having sex with her. That is not exactly consensual is it?

Denny's daughter would have no reason to lie about what her father told her. Other then a brief email to Oprah she hasn't talked to the press.

by Gwynethreply 6302/25/2011

No, R63, it's not consensual. As others have pointed out before, it's "chemical rape" and she didn't consent to sex.

R55's claim that it didn't happen because family and friends would have so obviously tried to help is really, really ridiculous. Besides, Chynna and Bijou knew but couldn't have done anything because they were kids. Denny's daughter was probably not that old at the time, either.

And I don't understand how R55 could reference [italic]The Kiss[/italic] as an example of a consensual relationship. The author made it clear that it was not consensual, it was the result of continuous manipulation by a parent who, thanks to her problematic upbringing, had undue influence over her.

by Gwynethreply 6402/25/2011

To everyone who's convinced that it's true because family members & friends say that McKenzie told them about it at the time: that doesn't mean it happened, it just means she TOLD people that something was happening. If she's lying now, maybe she was lying then. Has anyone said "I saw them together"? If not, then the only evidence is that McKenzie talked to people years ago -- she's telling the same story now, which means that she's consistent, but it doesn't mean that she's truthful (then or now).

by Gwynethreply 6602/25/2011

And she might very well believe it; still doesn't make it true. She's a JUNKIE. They convince themselves of lots of things because they're so desperately fucked up.

She might well have told people that they slept together to get attention and sympathy. Doesn't make it true when it comes out of the mouth of a junkie.

by Gwynethreply 6702/25/2011

[quote]You're full of shit. They had an affair for ten years.

No dear you're full of shit and probably eat it too. If you read her book, you would know they weren't having sex for regularly for 10 years.

[quote]She woke up with him on top of her? Dear, HE was drugged out too. Two junkies using, and they did each other while high. It's sick, but it's not rape. Neither one was sober.

Dear fucking someone when they are blacked out or incapacitated isn't consensual regardless if both parties are drunk or high. I guess you must have experience fucking drunk or passed out people.

[quote]Go away, hon. You're pathetic. She's a junkie, and she'll do anything to stay in the public's eye. They were both disgusting. But for you to try to paint her as victim is truly disgusting, and offensive to all real rape survivors.

Off your meds again rage troll? Tell us why would Denny Doherty's daughter back Mackenzie's story? Was she in on it too? Dear resolve your own issues and stop projecting them on people you don't know.

by Gwynethreply 6802/25/2011

R68, rage troll? LOL!!

Sweets, who's off their meds here? You're defending a junkie who's lied multiple times about being sober, only to subsequently be arrested for holding. You seem pretty personally invested in this, which is very strange.

They were both very sick people who were incredibly fucked up. Get a real cause, hon.

by Gwynethreply 6902/25/2011

R68 = Glen Scarpelli

by Gwynethreply 7002/25/2011

Doherty's daughter said he told her about it at the time in the 80's when they were touring as the New Mama's & Papa's. I don't think he'd make something like that up.

by Gwynethreply 7102/25/2011

R71- you're really not getting it.

Junkies = liars.

by Gwynethreply 7202/25/2011

Why do you care so much R71?%0D

by Gwynethreply 7302/25/2011

I can't believe anyone would read such trash or defend the junkie's repugnant story. This thread is lousy with Oprah fraus.

by Gwynethreply 7402/25/2011

[quote]HE was drugged out too. Two junkies using, and they did each other while high. It's sick, but it's not rape.%0D %0D Being intoxicated is not a defense against charges of rape or sexual assault. If Phillips was drunk or high and he initiated sexual contact with his adult daughter while she was intoxicated and unable to consent to sexual activity, he could have been (and should have been) charged with a felony.%0D %0D Kathryn Harrison's memoir cited earlier in this thread is an instructive read in how an apparently unthinkable situation like this can develop and what sort of effect it has upon one's psyche. By her own account Harrison grew up neglected by a selfish mother who basically abandoned her as a small child and put Kathryn in the care of grandparents.%0D %0D After her parents' divorce, Harrison barely knew her father until she met him as a young adult. She already had shaky boundaries thanks a dysfunctional upbringing (mostly due to the emotionally abusive narcissistic mother). She also suffered from an eating disorder. Her father easily zeroes in on his daughter's desperate need for love and attention. He initiates a sexual relationship with her and she complies, albeit not without suffering significant emotional turmoil and disabling shame as a result.%0D %0D Yes, Kathryn was an adult at the time and both parties in the matter obviously had a hopelessly compromised sense of boundaries. But as the parent, Harrison's dad still bears responsibility for sexually exploiting a needy and emotionally fragile young woman.%0D %0D As for why Kathryn 'allowed' their sexual relationship to continue for so long: even a minimal acquaintance with the dynamics of sexual abuse will tell you about the toxic emotional bond between abuser and victim. When the abuser is one's own parent, the bond becomes even more powerful and harder to shake off.

by Gwynethreply 7502/25/2011

Trolldar yourself R54/57/65/67/69/71 then come back and see who is too vested in this story. You are absolutely unhinged. Oprah fraus? Try something more original and work on your woman hating issues.

Do you know Denny Doherty's daughter?

by Gwynethreply 7602/25/2011

Boring.

by Gwynethreply 7702/26/2011

Oh, yeah, Bijou Phillips is a real voice of sanity. %0D %0D Don't even get me started on Michelle going to the wifes house to proudly announce her plans on how she was going to steal John away from her and marry him. Another pillar of mental stability. Any woman that would marry Dennis Hopper has to be, right?%0D %0D -----------------------------------------------%0D Bijou Phillips' Scientology depression cure%0D %0D Scientologist model Bijou Phillips shared her opinion that people who take antidepressants are f**king pansies to Paper Magazine. %0D %0D %0D The model spoke of an earlier generation who in her opinion bucked up and just dealt with being depressed naturally.%0D %0D "My grandparents didn't take any pills, and they were fine," Phillips said in the February issue of Paper. "Just buck up and get over it. Stop being such a f---king pansy."%0D %0D Bijou's father John Phillips was a notorious addict who relapsed frequently. He died of heart failure in 2001 at age 65. Michael K of DListed.com noted that Bijou's entire family was a hornet's nest of "self-medicating" addicts. Michael K notes: "This is coming from a b**ch whose whole family has self-medicated with the street anti-depressant know as CRACK (and a bunch of other sh*t too). Why doesn't she tell her sister Mackenzie to just get over being a damn crackhead. You know, eat a barley cookie, shake off the shakes and move on."%0D %0D Phillips, according to the Paper interview, frequents "Scientology-sponsored events" speaking out "against psychiatry and prescribing patients with medication for such mental illnesses as depression or anxiety."%0D %0D A rehab veteran herself, Phillips, 28, is romantically linked to fellow Scientologist Danny Masterson.%0D

by Gwynethreply 7802/26/2011

She's got a point. My sister's on a lot of antidepressents and she's turning into a zombie.

by Gwynethreply 7902/26/2011

I always wonder if addicts actually need to be on meds badly and if that's why they find sobriety so hard: because they're starting a long way behind the eight ball when they're not on anything.

by Gwynethreply 8002/26/2011

Anyone who chooses to have sex with her dad while she's an adult, is crazy enough to broadcast it to the world when the dad is dead.

by Gwynethreply 8102/26/2011

R76- oh, and as for your "woman-hating" bullshit, please spare me snookums. I don't hate women at all. I do recognize a junkie when I see one, however, and junkies lie. you apparently think you're being some great feminist by defending the crazy junkie. But a real feminist would understand that this sort of publicity whoring by a pathetic junkie is exactly the kind of thing that hurts the cause of women who have actually been raped or molested. A ten year affair with your father, as an adult, is not rape. It's sick, but it's not rape. Get a clue.

by Gwynethreply 8302/26/2011

Wow, old people sure talk dirty these days.

by Gwynethreply 8402/26/2011

R84- you do know that I'm actually agreeing with your POV, right?

by Gwynethreply 8502/26/2011

Michelle Phillips wasn't 17--she was SIXTEEN at the time she started fucking a very-married John Phillips. Plus she was stoned through most of the 1960s-70s so she probably shouldn't be talking about someone else's drug use.

by Gwynethreply 8602/26/2011

r10 = also sleeping with her dad.

by Gwynethreply 8702/26/2011

She was an adult when he fucked her...not abuse. She's a fucking fame whore. Why would anyone want to make money from something like this? Oh. wait ...

by Gwynethreply 8802/26/2011

r85, oh, I know -thx!%0D %0D Ok, you're not talkin' dirty, just hip!

by Gwynethreply 8902/26/2011

[r86] um, she wasn't fucking her father

by Gwynethreply 9002/26/2011

I'd have sex with Glen Scarpelli. I'm just saying.....

by Gwynethreply 9202/26/2011

[quote]Phillips is some poor victim instead of a really fucked up junkie trying to score a fast buck off her family's misfortunes%0D %0D She could be both. It's not uncommon for "really fucked up junkies" to have a history of sexual abuse.

by Gwynethreply 9302/27/2011

Here's an excerpt from an interview with Kathryn Harrison in which she addresses some of the same topics people keep bringing up in relation to Phillips-- namely, accusations that she's lying, that she was only motivated to tell her story in order to make money, and that her incestuous relationship with her father was consensual and non-abusive.%0D %0D ---------%0D %0D BF: A lot of reviewers were merciless when [italic]The Kiss[/italic] came out. Most of the memoir-- and [italic]Thicker Than Water[/italic] for that matter-- evokes the experience of a child being deprived of something as primal as parental love. Some of the reviews bypassed this and made a beeline for the more "sensational" aspects, taking you to task for being twenty when your father seduced you, and questioning the veracity of your story and your motive for writing it. They judged you personally and invited readers to do the same.%0D %0D KH: It's the power of taboo. It's almost like an autoimmune response. As you know, certain critics were venomous, mean in a way that has nothing to do with book criticism. But the publication of [italic]The Kiss[/italic] was disillusioning in the best sense. It was painful at first, but ultimately useful in that it stripped away naive fantasies that I'd had. Going into publication, I imagined that some people would be angry with me for who I was and what I'd done, and I could accept that because I'd been angry with myself.%0D %0D BF: Did readers initially presume that someone had molested you as a child?%0D %0D KH: Maybe. But isn't it reductive, even silly, to limit the age at which it's possible to be abused by a parent? To say, if you're under eighteen you're a kid, and if you're over eighteen, you're not? In relation to your parents, you're always a child. And I was naive about the media. I genuinely believed all journalists were honorable. [laughs] It never occurred to me that I'd be quoted out of context in order to distort my meaning. I wasn't prepared for slander, for people to say, "She did it for the money. Random House paid this huge advance." Random House didn't. They accepted the memoir in lieu of a novel that had been under contract for years, without any extra advance. The one thing that infuriated me was being called a liar. How ironic to finally come clean only to be accused of dishonesty. In the [italic]Washington Post[/italic], Jonathan Yardley wrote, nastily, "If, by the way, anything herein actually happened as she claims it did..." He also called the book "slimy," "repellent," "meretricious." The fact that the review-- plus an Op-Ed piece!-- was so hysterical in its hostility turned out to be a saving grace. I mean, a critic has to have an agenda to take the people who blurbed the book to task: Tobias Wolff, Mary Karr, Robert Coles, and Mary Gordon were all sentenced by Yardley to "perdition eternal." In the end it was laughable. But at the time it wasn't very funny.

by Gwynethreply 9402/27/2011

Parents who have sex with their children are monsters. Period. They are criminals and sick pieces of shit. Stop blaming the victim.

by Gwynethreply 9502/27/2011

Good lord, R65 et al., do you really think you're so important that someone would bother "dumping cookies" just to trick you on this thread? Just cut it out.

by Gwynethreply 9602/27/2011

I was almost through with the first page before I realized people weren't talking about Joanie Laurer. I'd thought they must have become friends on some reality show or something.

by Gwynethreply 9702/27/2011

Wow, this story really has all of you in a snit. Must have touched a nerve.

by Gwynethreply 9802/27/2011

[quote]Parents who have sex with their children are monsters. Period. They are criminals and sick pieces of shit. Stop blaming the victim.

Sometimes the child is the seducer.

by Gwynethreply 9902/27/2011

Seriously, people. What would MP have to gain from publishing this story? Her story of sex and drugs alone would have been a best seller. She didn't need the incest story to sell books.%0D %0D I believe she's telling her story to help others and to heal herself. %0D %0D There are enough people backing her up that I believe her. She comes across as a nice person fighting a lot of demons.%0D %0D

by Gwynethreply 10002/27/2011

R100- you're kidding, right?

How on Earth does publishing this story "help others"? Because there are so many adults having ten year affairs with a parent?

She's a JUNKIE. Why is that so hard for you to grasp? She's got an incredibly serious addiction, and probably a rather serious mental illness. She's not some lucid, thoughtful person who wants to save the world from consensual adult incest. This is the same woman who said she was clean and sober and just wanted to help other addicts by going public with her addiction. Then she was arrested in an airport with stuff up her hootch.

Do you honestly think that stuff like this helps people with addictions? It doesn't. It just heaps more shame and public disgust on an already misunderstood problem.

by Gwynethreply 10102/27/2011

McKenzie Phillips was actually a very good actress. She brought a lot of soul to her parts, but she never learnt any discretion.%0D %0D I once saw her on TV yakking away, in great detail, about her sexual experience with Mick Jagger, which her father of course had a lot to do with, setting it up and running in to ask about it the next morning and I felt like I really shouldn't have been in the room.%0D %0D She had no business going public with this. It's a private matter and it's upset everyone in her family. Oprah, also had no business promoting this on her show.

by Gwynethreply 10202/27/2011

[quote]McKenzie Phillips was actually a very good actress. She brought a lot of soul to her parts, but she never learnt any discretion%0D %0D Really? What has she actually done besides that stupid show with Bonnie Franklin (which she was coked up on anyway), and various appearances on Montel, etc. to talk about her drug problem?

by Gwynethreply 10302/27/2011

I guess you never heard of a small movie called "American Graffiti" R103. She also played a lesbian in "Love Child".

by Gwynethreply 10402/27/2011

She seems lucid to me R101. She did a show called "So Weird" for several seasons, which I doubt they would have let her do if she was showing up with a needle in her arm like Phillips said.

by Gwynethreply 10502/27/2011

When she was on Oprah was a pissed-off bitch about the whole thing. It was obvious she felt nothing but contempt for Mackenzie.

by Gwynethreply 10602/27/2011

Notice that R82/83/85 is the same unhinged troll that is all over this thread. You are histrionic and batshit crazy. I guess we know why you don't have any plans on a Saturday night now don't we?

Did you molest a family member or something, is that why you are so defensive or angry about this? Are you eating Michelle Phillips pussy or are you Michelle herself?

You copy and paste the same things over and over again, so stop repeating yourself psycho. We know she was a junkie, we also know she was clean for many years before relapsing on drugs again. Doesn't make her story less true. Many drug addicts were physically and sexually abused. So what you are saying is don't believe anyone who said they were abused if they had addiction issues right? Boy that is helpful isn't it?

Other then screaming SHE'S A JUNKIE SHE'S A JUNKIE over and over again you haven't written a thing that disputes her story. Even funnier you won't address Jessica Brown's statements that backed Mackenzie's story. So was she or Denny Doherty (her father) lying as well?

by Gwynethreply 10702/27/2011

Oprah had contempt for Mackenzie Phillips because she admitted to having a consensual sexual relationship with her father for 10 yrs. Who does that and shares with the world - a shameless junkie looking for money to score more junk.

Sympathizers like R107, who insist she was a victim and demand proof from those who disagree on an anonymous message board, are magical thinkers. Reasonable people are repulsed by Mackenzie Phillips and understand that drug addicts would do anyone or anything to get more drugs and this book is just another junkie scam. Junkies lie, junkies fuck whoever for drugs.

by Gwynethreply 10802/27/2011

[quote]Oprah had contempt for Mackenzie Phillips because she admitted to having a consensual sexual relationship with her father for 10 yrs. Who does that and shares with the world - a shameless junkie looking for money to score more junk.

Um Oprah Winfrey did. Oprah actually changed her demeanor when she had Mackenzie and Chynna back on her show.

[quote]Sympathizers like [R107], who insist she was a victim and demand proof from those who disagree on an anonymous message board, are magical thinkers. Reasonable people are repulsed by Mackenzie Phillips and understand that drug addicts would do anyone or anything to get more drugs and this book is just another junkie scam. Junkies lie, junkies fuck whoever for drugs.

You are the one that is proclaiming that she is lying yet other then saying she's a junkie over and over again, have nothing to back up your statement with. Mackenzie said there are a number of people who can back up her story but she won't name them because she doesn't want to drag them into this story. I'm guessing if she did go public with them and they did confirm her story you would then trash her for putting other people on the spot.

I see you cleared your cookies Candy.

by Gwynethreply 10902/27/2011

I think we can all agree that trolldar was not a good idea.

by Gwynethreply 11002/27/2011

Yes, that's soooo true.

by Gwynethreply 11102/28/2011

[quote]She had no business going public with this. It's a private matter and it's upset everyone in her family. Oprah, also had no business promoting this on her show. by: Nobody's business

Listen Bitch, she's an American Citizen and has the right to tell her story whether you like it or not. Don't like it, don't listen. End of your problem.

by Gwynethreply 11202/28/2011

R51, Michelle was born in 1944 and Mackenzie was born in 1959. Michelle is 15 years older. If Mackenzie was 12 during those visits, Michelle was 27.

by Gwynethreply 11302/28/2011

[quote]Listen Bitch, she's an American Citizen and has the right to tell her story whether you like it or not. Don't like it, don't listen. End of your problem.%0D %0D I personally have no problem with it or anything she does, personally. You're clearly an extremely stupid person to misinterpret my post to such a degree.

by Gwynethreply 11402/28/2011

[r112] the problem is clearly hers and anybody who believes what she has contrived to make a buck. She has every right to sling shit. What is sad: people accept it as if it is exactly as she tells it. It is only abuse in a remote sense. She had every opportunity as an adult to walk away from it. No matter. She is exploiting the sensationalism -- pure and simple. She's sick. AND not because her junkie father fucked her, but because she somehow thinks she is special because of it and deserves your attention.

by Gwynethreply 11502/28/2011

I don't hate junkies, I just don't trust them.

by Gwynethreply 11602/28/2011

R115/116 fucks his father.

by Gwynethreply 11702/28/2011

R115, Mackenzie's relationship with her father sounds highly abusive to me, and just walking away from any abusive relationship is easier said than done.%0D %0D One of the more insidious tactics abusers use on their victims to bind them closer to them is to destroy the victims' self-esteem-- for example, after he had sex with her, Kathryn Harrison's father told her that she was a 'slut' and that no man would want her because no 'normal' man would want a woman who willingly had sex with her own father. (Never mind who instigated that fucked-up situation, dad...!)%0D %0D If Mackenzie's father used a similar mindfuck technique on her, I can see her not actually being able to take advantage of opportunities to leave the relationship despite being an ostensible adult. Being in an abusive relationship is similar to being held hostage-- victims do not always think and behave rationally, and do not take chances afforded to them to leave. A phenomenon known as traumatic bonding can make it much more challenging psychologically to exit what outsiders can readily perceive is a toxic, even life-threatening situation. When someone is stuck inside this abusive dynamic, it's much more difficult to see these things clearly, and if one were abusing drugs I imagine it would be even more difficult.

by Gwynethreply 11802/28/2011

Jeezus, my father fucked me for years and you don't hear me complaining about it. Let's keep it in the family.

by Gwynethreply 11902/28/2011

[quote]Michelle was born in 1944 and Mackenzie was born in 1959. Michelle is 15 years older. If Mackenzie was 12 during those visits, Michelle was 27.

You're right. Michelle married John in 1962; for some reason, I thought it was 1968. Mackenzie went to visit them before filming "American Graffiti," so I guess she must have been 10 and not 12 while Michelle was mid-20s.

Thanks for the correction. I heard this on an interview and can't find anything online about it, so I could STILL have my dates wrong.

by Gwynethreply 12003/01/2011

Some things are best kept in the family.

by Gwynethreply 12103/01/2011

bump

by Gwynethreply 12207/19/2011

My dad and I have sex, but we're always completely sober. We also didn't start until I was 27 years old.

by Gwynethreply 12307/20/2011

I shot heroin when I was young and I quit in 1973 - I'm now 62 but since you all are pouring on the hate here, I guess I'm still a lying junkie to you, yes? I also quit drinking decades ago but I guess I'll always be a junkie drunk to those of you who are so quick to throw stones. Where the fuck do you get off judging others like this? When I was in a mental hospital in '73 - in those days there were no rehab joints like today - someone actually told my parents "once a junkie, always a junkie" -- how insightful and helpful that comment was, don't you think?

by Gwynethreply 12407/20/2011

"I also quit drinking decades ago but I guess I'll always be a junkie drunk to those of you who are so quick to throw stones."%0D %0D Actually you WILL always be a "junkie drunk."%0D %0D I had a friend who was a recovering drug addict. I went with her to some of the AA and NA meetings. And I learned that it is stressed that an addict or alcoholic never STOPS being an addict or alcoholic. If you stop using or drinking you're a RECOVERING addict or alcoholic, but you never stop being one. No one can stay "I used to be an alcoholic/drug addict, but I'm not anymore." The addicts and alcoholics I talked to would always say "I've been sober for 2 years" or "I've been clean for 6 months." None of them said they were no longer addicts or alcoholics.

by Gwynethreply 12507/20/2011

bump

by Gwynethreply 12607/22/2011

i liked the book, i kind of skipped over the father fucking parts

by Gwynethreply 12710/12/2011

Ka-ching for Mama Michelle because they're using a John Phillips composition "Go Where You Wanna Go" in a new national t.v. ad campaign directed at seniors. Not using the original track, I forgot what the ad is for, probably a medication of some sort.

by Gwynethreply 12810/12/2011

Love the title "High On Arrival" - might have to buy it. Loved the Mamas & Papas. So much drama and fire and music!

by Gwynethreply 12910/12/2011

Kathryn Harrison's father told her that she was a 'slut' and that no man would want her because no 'normal' man would want a woman who willingly had sex with her own father. (Never mind who instigated that fucked-up situation, dad...!)

If Mackenzie's father used a similar mindfuck technique on her, I can see her not actually being able to take advantage of opportunities to leave the relationship despite being an ostensible adult.

She was married right? Didn't she start sleeping with her dad on her wedding night? If she has a husband then why would she still fuck her dad for over a decade.

Whats the threesome story about. someone upthread said someone watched her fuck her dad?

by Gwynethreply 13010/12/2011

Everyone is completely missing the context of the characters in this book. John Phillips was the definition of narcissism. John Phillips understood the narcissism in his daughter and encouraged it.

True or not, the father-rape story is essential to the book... you have to give the public something novel to have big sales. It's important to note that this tell-all book surfaced AFTER the death of John Phillips. Phillips would have approved. What does a narcissistic dead man care after he's no more?

As for father/daughter sex, they were simply narcissistic enough not to care... whatever feels good at the time will work. I've known people who had long term brother/sister sex and neither seemed to mind or be subsequently damaged. I'm pretty sure neither was all too damaged from this father/daughter sex, either.

by Gwynethreply 13110/25/2012

Fuck fatass Oprah for having contempt for MP--pot, meet kettle, because Oprah used to have a major coke habit and she was a prostitute in high school.

by Gwynethreply 13210/25/2012

Does anyone remember when Mackenzie played Eleanor Roosevelt in some TV miniseries? Yeah, that was funny.

by Gwynethreply 13310/25/2012

[quote]Does anyone remember when Mackenzie played Eleanor Roosevelt in some TV miniseries? Yeah, that was funny.

What was funny about it?

by Gwynethreply 13410/25/2012

[quote]What was funny about it?

Her attempt to portray Eleanor Roosevelt.

by Gwynethreply 13510/25/2012

Regardless of any talent she may or may not have, I always thought McKenzie Phillips was rather homely. Why would John Phillips want to long dick that?

by Gwynethreply 13610/25/2012

[quote]I always thought McKenzie Phillips was rather homely.

Which would make her a very good pick to play Eleanor Roosevelt. Since she was an okay actress, I still don't get why her work in that role was "funny."

by Gwynethreply 13710/25/2012

I guess you had to be there. It wasn't just about her appearance: Eleanor Roosevelt had a unique accent, vocal timbre and manner that Mackenzie failed spectacularly to reproduce.

by Gwynethreply 13810/25/2012

[quote]McKenzie Phillips family has shut her out because of her sexual relationship with her father

And here I thought it was because she looks like a bug.

by Gwynethreply 13910/25/2012

Here's whar really happened... Papa John just likes the young ones. He porked his first wife and dumped her for Michele (16). Later he went for his daughter at 16. But who want to throw the sausage to a 26-year-old? So, McKenzie is not pissed her father poked her in the whiskers, she' pissed 'caus he quit.

by Gwynethreply 14010/25/2012

It's a shocking and fun page turner. Just started it last night, bought the paperback with the new postscript ("I take it all back!") from Amazon. Wish they'd make it a feature, she really has some amazing tales, love her! And considering all the smack, she looks pretty damn good for her age.

by Gwynethreply 14111/20/2012

Who could play Mack? Don't like her but Emma Stone could!

by Gwynethreply 14211/20/2012

Finished it and the afterword last night. One of the best star bios ever. Bijou, her brother Jeff, and Michelle Phillips won't speak to her but she forgives them. To all the addicts and victims out there she says "forgiveness is for YOU, not them."

by Gwynethreply 14411/26/2012

[quote]Her brother Jeff, and Michelle Phillips won't speak to her but she forgives them.

Wow, I bet they're so grateful for that...

MacKenzie was a mediocre actress and an ugly girl. She hasn't changed much as an adult.

Here's a newsflash for you Mac...

NO ONE CARES ABOUT YOU. If you dropped off the face of the Earth, no one would care.

You could walk into a crowd and yell "I'm MacKenzie Phillips" and everyone would be like "WHO????"

No one cares about nobodies.

by Gwynethreply 14511/27/2012

She ain't ugly, she has range as an actress, has a distinctive rocker style and is deeper than any of the current stars.

by Gwynethreply 14611/27/2012

This would make a great film, y'all! She's brave, articulate and talented. Love Mack!

by Gwynethreply 14711/30/2012

Michelle said her sisters are more successful than her. If they are, it's not by much.

by Gwynethreply 14811/30/2012

Michelle Phillips? She doesn't have any sisters, what the fuck do you mean?

by Gwynethreply 14911/30/2012

I meant that she said that about McKenzie, implying that Bijou and Chynna were great success stories.

by Gwynethreply 15011/30/2012

I'm thankful to this thread for introducing the phrase "I see you cleared your cookies, Candy," if for nothing else.

by Gwynethreply 15111/30/2012

Oh thanks for clearing that up and I agree.

by Gwynethreply 15211/30/2012

I'm going to clear my cookies right after lick & suck, Candy.

by Gwynethreply 15311/30/2012

Interesting story. I think McKenzie Phillips said the truth. I don't think that there is a person who would lie for something like that. Seriously!

I got disappointed when i learned that Michelle Phillips trashed her stepdaughter for that. Now i think that Michelle is a unsympathetic bitch. If she was so satisfied with John Phillips why she broke up with him at first place? Don't forget that Michelle Phillips is also the person who got married to Dennis Hopper. Enough said! She didn't find it to her heart to support her stepdaughter and of course she didn't find it to her heart to have her own children. There are stars who are childless but unlike her, they are lovely and they have sensitivities. By the way, some of her quotes are:

[asked what word comes to mind when she looks into a mirror] Lucky.

I don't mind feeling naked. I'm fine with nothing.

I will say this about Dennis Hopper: We were married for eight days and truly . . . they were the happiest days of my life.

by Gwynethreply 15412/12/2013

*UN UNSYMPATHETIC BITCH

by Gwynethreply 15512/12/2013

*AN UNSYMPATHETIC BITCH

by Gwynethreply 15612/12/2013

Seems to me, father and daughter kinky...should have buried it.

by Gwynethreply 15712/12/2013

I watched the Oprah show with MP and felt that O seemed to get pissed when MacKenzie was relating the story about being left alone with Mick Jagger when Papa John went out on some errand.

Allegedly Mick locked the door after John left and told the 18 year old MacKenzie that he had waited for this chance to be with her since she was 14. As he was hooking up with MacKenzie, (in Jerry hall's bed) John came back and pounded on the locked door trying to get inside.

The thing is that MacKenzie thought it was funny and was laughing while telling the story. Neither Oprah nor the audience saw anything remotely amusing about the story and MacKenzie realized it only when it was too late. She seemed to lose both Oprah and the audience at that time.

FWIW, Papa John was allegedly hung huge.

by Gwynethreply 15812/14/2013

I don't believe that schizophrenic John Phillips, who left piles of shit all over his house, is the father of Chynna. I believe Dennis Hopper is her real father. And Michelle Phillips is a liar.

by Gwynethreply 15912/14/2013

My family is and always will be a decrepit bowl of dog urine compared to Nityananda of Ganeshpuri. That is how great Nityananda is.

by Gwynethreply 16012/14/2013

I just googled Mackenzie and John Phillips and in every picture of them when she's an adult, she is completely draped all over him.

by Gwynethreply 16112/14/2013

Filthy schizo in the hippie bonnet who shit in plies all over his house is NOT the father of Chyna Phillips. Hell, he may not even be Mackensie's real father.

None of his 'children' look like him, have his schizo illness, and are fece pigs.

John Phillip's was a lice pickin', bonnet wearin', pile shittin' pencil neck geek.

by Gwynethreply 16212/14/2013

Hey Mackenzie, want me to have his legs broken?

by Gwynethreply 16312/14/2013

I too believe Dennis Hopper is Chynna Phillips' real father.

by Gwynethreply 16412/14/2013

My argument against a Hopper paternity would be the Phillips mouth and long teeth that Mackenzie and Chynna share.

by Gwynethreply 16512/14/2013

Interesting theory except that of all his kids Chynna looks the most like John, esp in the facial features. Bijou imo looks nothing like him, she was on the tail end born years after the others.

by Gwynethreply 16612/14/2013

Team MacKenzie.

by Gwynethreply 16712/14/2013

She should go to that alternative school with Precious

by Gwynethreply 16812/14/2013

MacKenzie played teenage Eleanor, and wasn't in that much of the movie. Jane Alexander played the adult Eleanor.

by Gwynethreply 16912/15/2013

It wasn't rape rape..

by Gwynethreply 17012/15/2013
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