Join the Bitchfest >>

Theatre Gossip #283: Who Lives In A Pineapple Over the Great White Way? edition

Since they actually went through with a SpongeBob stage musical, even though it looks like the sort of thing that belongs at Universal Studios in Orlando, how long before we actually see the Simpsons/[ita - lic]Family Guy rivalry extend to actual musical theater and not just pastiche?

And how do we stop Broadway from becoming just another subsidiary of the junk food industry? I'm just wondering how long before we see a Ronald McDonald musical.

--Anonymous
replies 603Dec 7, 2017 10:42 AM +00:00

More like the Who Comes Up With the Worst Titles Ever? edition.

--Anonymous
replies 1Dec 7, 2017 11:52 AM +00:00

You won the contest for the worst comeback ever, R1.

--Anonymous
replies 2Dec 7, 2017 11:54 AM +00:00

This OP needs to retire. His titles are AWFUL.

--Anonymous
replies 3Dec 7, 2017 12:02 PM +00:00

Ok I can sum up the last 3 threads

NY times article that’s possibly not coming out

Spongebob

Follies

Robbie Fairchild and Ashley Day breaking up

Follies

Angela Lansbury saying women share blame

Bob Fosse

Over Here and Over There

Follies

Audra eating Chipotle

Follies

--Anonymous
replies 4Dec 7, 2017 12:09 PM +00:00
You won the contest for the worst comeback ever, [R1].

And yet there you are, snatching my title away already.

--Anonymous
replies 5Dec 7, 2017 12:10 PM +00:00

R4 - you left out Follies.

--oh, follies.
replies 6Dec 7, 2017 12:56 PM +00:00

The Sun Comes Up...

--Anonymous
replies 7Dec 7, 2017 1:00 PM +00:00

The Sun'll Come Out Tomorrow...

--Anonymous
replies 8Dec 7, 2017 1:03 PM +00:00

I can't let that last thread disappear without commenting on my disappointment with the Donna Murphy version of L/J.

First of all, it was just so......careful. It felt like every breath was over-rehearsed. When you watch that clip of Alexis Smith you know you're seeing LIVE theater. She was so in the moment and all the more thrilling to see someone we 'd always thought was a Hollywood has-been holding a Broadway audience in the palm of her hand. True glamour and excitement!

Secondly, it sounded like Donna kept fucking up the lyrics.

--Anonymous
replies 9Dec 7, 2017 1:05 PM +00:00

Does Armie Hammer have any previous stage experience or are the Straight White Men producers just casting a movie star for name value? (Similarly, has anyone seen Uma Thurman in The Parisian Woman?)

--Anonymous
replies 10Dec 7, 2017 1:06 PM +00:00

Apropos of nothing, a comment on Follies.

One of my favourite versions of Losing My Mind is Cleo Laine's, in part because of her approach to the ending. She places the climax on "You said you loved me," not on "Or were you just being kind?" If you think about it, it makes perfect sense.

Not the definitive version by any means (she shuns the "ka-ha-hind," which to me is rich with interpretive possibility) but a good one to come back to again and again.

r9 I'm not a big fan of Donna's Losing My Mind either (on Wall-to-Wall Sondheim).

--Anonymous
replies 11Dec 7, 2017 1:09 PM +00:00

r9, no reason to be overly wordy. The following was sufficient.

I can't let that last thread disappear without commenting on my disappointment with the Donna Murphy
--Anonymous
replies 12Dec 7, 2017 1:09 PM +00:00

The "Cleo Laine Sings Sondheim" album is the best damn album ever! Every track on that thing is divine!

--Anonymous
replies 13Dec 7, 2017 1:11 PM +00:00

r12 As opposed to the other Donna Murphys, jk, very funny, I agree.

--Anonymous
replies 14Dec 7, 2017 1:11 PM +00:00

In case anyone missed it, here was the suggested track listing for a Judy Sings Sondheim! album on the last thread:

1. Broadway Baby

2. Send In the Clowns

3. Not a Day Goes By

4. Everything’s Coming Up Roses

5. Losing My Mind

6. Children Will Listen

7. No One Is Alone

8. The Ladies Who Lunch

9. I’m Still Here

10. Rose’s Turn

11. Bonus Track: Anyone Can Whistle

--Anonymous
replies 15Dec 7, 2017 1:13 PM +00:00

The Mean Girls musical looks terrible

--Anonymous
replies 16Dec 7, 2017 1:14 PM +00:00

For Volume 2, I'd love to see "Not While I'm Around," "A Parade in Town" and for the potential who would have imagined that working, "The Miller's Son." Who else has suggestions?

--Anonymous
replies 17Dec 7, 2017 1:15 PM +00:00
In case anyone missed it, here was the suggested track listing for a Judy Sings Sondheim! album on the last thread:

Replace 6 with "Everybody Says Don't" Judy was great with those fast, soaring songs.

--Anonymous
replies 18Dec 7, 2017 1:16 PM +00:00
Replace 6 with "Everybody Says Don't" Judy was great with those fast, soaring songs.

She was also good with pills. Look where that got her.

--Anonymous
replies 19Dec 7, 2017 1:17 PM +00:00

r13 If you ever get a chance, check out Cleo's Send in the Clowns in the Live at Carnegie Hall album. Different, just as lovely.

r15 Not a Day Goes By and Losing My Mind in particular make me regret what could have been.

r17 OMG, A Parade in Town. That's genius.

Just wanted to add to my comments in the last thread on the NT Follies. The ending of Imelda's Losing My Mind was a stroke of genius. She flipped a switch and made the last note sound completely hollow, as if she had now, finally, gone over the edge. If any of you have the DVD, do check it out.

--Anonymous
replies 20Dec 7, 2017 1:21 PM +00:00

Judy's cover of Sweet Danger is wonderful!

--Anonymous
replies 21Dec 7, 2017 1:44 PM +00:00

OH COME ON GUYS, YOU FORGOT THE PERFECT BOOKEND TO A WOMAN WHO SANG OF RAINBOWS......

Provided to YouTube by Warner Music Group Evening Primrose: I Remember · Stephen Sondheim The Frogs / Evening Primrose ? 2001 Nonesuch Records Vocals: Theres...
YouTube
--IMAGINE THOSE EXTENDED TONES AND THE FINAL SWELL!!!! DO IT JUDY!!
replies 22Dec 7, 2017 1:47 PM +00:00

"Similarly, has anyone seen Uma Thurman in The Parisian Woman?"

I did, and nothing in this play — not one line or ginned-up plot turn — feels real.

--J. Green, NYT
replies 23Dec 7, 2017 1:49 PM +00:00
The Mean Girls musical looks terrible

I've wondered about why so many of these screen-to-stage transfers are so literal and musically indifferent. It's like they think fans of these films will watch anything.

--Anonymous
replies 24Dec 7, 2017 2:39 PM +00:00

The sun'll come out tomorrow -

I think about you

--Annie Durant Plummer
replies 25Dec 7, 2017 2:58 PM +00:00
Maybe if Judy had been cast in "Anyone Can Whistle" as Cora Hoover Hooper, it would have played longer than a week.

Yes. Two weeks.

--Angie
replies 26Dec 7, 2017 2:59 PM +00:00
Secondly, it sounded like Donna kept fucking up the lyrics.

If you want to hear fucked up lyrics, watch the clip of Caroline O'Connor singing "Lucy and Jessie" in the Chicago production a few years back. I don't know if it was an early preview or not, but girlfriend has no clue what she's singing until she gets to the "poor sad souls" bridge.

--Anonymous
replies 27Dec 7, 2017 3:01 PM +00:00
If you want to hear fucked up lyrics, watch the clip of Caroline O'Connor singing "Lucy and Jessie" in the Chicago production a few years back. I don't know if it was an early preview or not, but girlfriend has no clue what she's singing until she gets to the "poor sad souls" bridge.

But it's Caroline O'Connor! The only actor to ever put across a Pasek/Paul song without making you roll your eyes.

--Anonymous
replies 28Dec 7, 2017 3:03 PM +00:00
The sun'll come out tomorrow -I think about you—Annie Durant Plummer

and with the sun in the morning and the moon in the evening, I'm all right!

--Annie Durant Plummer Oakley
replies 29Dec 7, 2017 3:09 PM +00:00

R21, do you mean Sweet Danger from Kean?

Or is this another song?

--Anonymous
replies 30Dec 7, 2017 3:18 PM +00:00

Compare the melody of "Tomorrow! Tomorrow! I love ya, tomorrow" with that of "Is that just disgusting, you to concede it."

Sondheim admitted years later he did it on purpose as a joke. At the time, people were still saying Sondheim couldn't write a hummable melody. So he wrote the most popular show tune of the past 25 years into Sweeney's score to see if anybody would notice. Almost nobody did.

--Anonymous
replies 31Dec 7, 2017 3:24 PM +00:00

Miss Caroline O'Connor.........and her two (count 'em) two boys!

Caroline O on fire in "The Story of Lucy & Jessie" - funny and sexy as hell! Enjoy!
YouTube
--Anonymous
replies 32Dec 7, 2017 3:34 PM +00:00
Annie Durant Plummer

The sun'll come ou tomorrow...IT IS TOMORROW!!!!!!

--Anonymous
replies 33Dec 7, 2017 3:36 PM +00:00

The Sweet Danger of Fran Gumm

--Anonymous
replies 34Dec 7, 2017 3:39 PM +00:00
You won the contest for the worst comeback ever, [[R1]].
And yet there you are, snatching my title away already.

Nope, R5, you're still the reigning champion. I humbly concede.

--Anonymous
replies 35Dec 7, 2017 3:41 PM +00:00
The sun'll come ou tomorrow...IT IS TOMORROW!!!!!!

Like hell it is!

Light the candles, get the ice out, roll the rug up, IT'S TODAY!!!!!!!!

--Dame Angie — get a freakin' calendar, why don't you?
replies 36Dec 7, 2017 3:41 PM +00:00

The Producers and Hairspray had strong creative teams and old fashioned star power fueling the translation, most of these other adaptations lack both, hence, zzzzzzzzz and blorp.

--Anonymous
replies 37Dec 7, 2017 4:05 PM +00:00

Did Jerry Herman ever say why he sold Mame rights to Lucille Ball? Did he actually lose them to her in a poker game?

--Anonymous
replies 38Dec 7, 2017 4:06 PM +00:00

Lucy offered to put up a substantial amount of Warner's production expenses to get cast.

--Anonymous
replies 39Dec 7, 2017 4:10 PM +00:00

Transferring from movie to Broadway musical has been successful in some instances.

Little Shop of Horrors was a great example of this. The original 1960s movie is a scream!!

Can the Sound of Music be included as there was a documentary about the von Trapp family.

A Light Night Music turned out well.

Sunset Boulevard turned out better than I expected.

--Anonymous
replies 40Dec 7, 2017 4:10 PM +00:00

The Sound of Music was nominally based on Maria von Trapp's book. But almost all the substantial changes made to the plot (vs. the real story) were first made in The Trapp Family, a highly successful German from the mid-1950s.

--Anonymous
replies 41Dec 7, 2017 4:15 PM +00:00

Forgot to add that the German film was a regular commercial film, not a documentary.

--Anonymous
replies 42Dec 7, 2017 4:16 PM +00:00
Forgot to add that the German film was a regular commercial film, not a documentary.

Did it have a black Mother Superior?

--Audra "Make Mine A Barbacoa" McDonald
replies 43Dec 7, 2017 4:19 PM +00:00

Little Shop was an off-Broadway musical r40.

--Anonymous
replies 44Dec 7, 2017 4:26 PM +00:00
Little Shop was an off-Broadway musical

Yes, at first it was. But they've since done a Broadway production.

--Anonymous
replies 45Dec 7, 2017 4:28 PM +00:00

Little Shop has played Broadway

--Anonymous
replies 46Dec 7, 2017 4:51 PM +00:00

And even that was a nondescript song, r28.

--Anonymous
replies 47Dec 7, 2017 5:22 PM +00:00

Judy would also be wonderful on So Many People and In Buddy's Eyes.

--Anonymous
replies 48Dec 7, 2017 5:24 PM +00:00

The canard that Lucy put her own money into Mame to be cast needs to be put to rest. The simple truth is that Warners was reluctant to finance an old fashioned musical at that point in time as most had been flops. The only reason they did is because the biggest, most popular, most beloved female star in the world agreed to do it. They thought that was their insurance against a box office dud. Unfiortunately, no one looked at this decision creatively realizing that Lucy was not right for the role. Everyone lost in the end. Although one must admit that the title number filmed on location is simply magnificent.

--Anonymous
replies 49Dec 7, 2017 5:44 PM +00:00

Yes, but Little Shop on Broadway has never been a B.O. success.

--so there
replies 50Dec 7, 2017 5:45 PM +00:00

I think r40 was talking about artistically successful

--Anonymous
replies 51Dec 7, 2017 5:49 PM +00:00

I don't think it was considered artistically successful on Broadway either.

--Anonymous
replies 52Dec 7, 2017 5:51 PM +00:00

Ooh, don't forget "Finishing the Hat." "Children and Art" would be an interesting one for Judy, but it's probably best with Liza.

--Anonymous
replies 53Dec 7, 2017 5:55 PM +00:00

r53 Liza would sing all those "Mama"-s like she was singing Rose's Turn. It would be so bizarre I would definitely listen to it.

--Anonymous
replies 54Dec 7, 2017 6:06 PM +00:00

There were a lot more people on stage in that Follies number with Caroline O'Connor. They were upstage and behind a scrim. To be honest, I never got the emotional release of the number as strongly as I did in that production. It really felt like a cold, icy woman finally letting go. It was quite thrilling.

--Anonymous
replies 55Dec 7, 2017 6:21 PM +00:00

I would kill to be able to hear Judy and Liza duet on “There’s Always a Woman.”

--Anonymous
replies 56Dec 7, 2017 6:22 PM +00:00
really felt like a cold, icy woman finally letting go. It was quite thrilling.

One of the first things she let go of was the lyrics.

--Anonymous
replies 57Dec 7, 2017 6:23 PM +00:00

Did she keep screaming out "Line!" in the middle of the song?

--Anonymous
replies 58Dec 7, 2017 6:30 PM +00:00

No, but she did scream "Get a feathered hat for the baby!" Wait ... that was Lanie.

--Anonymous
replies 59Dec 7, 2017 6:32 PM +00:00

I saw Caroline O'Connor in GYPSY. There were muscle men in the Garden of Eden sequence. Well, chorus boys doing their best "muscle man".

--Anonymous
replies 60Dec 7, 2017 6:36 PM +00:00

R37 here, I was talking about the recent/current screen to stage adaptations, the last five years have been full of shite.

--Anonymous
replies 61Dec 7, 2017 6:45 PM +00:00

Consider how few movie musicals we got out of Hollywood at all during the last two decades of the 20th century.

--Anonymous
replies 62Dec 7, 2017 7:15 PM +00:00

You're terrible, Mean Girls

--The fat sister in Porpoise Spit
replies 63Dec 7, 2017 7:23 PM +00:00

It's been confirmed. The Times is coming after the choreographers early next week. Say goodbye to "Pretty Woman" and the horrid dancing in "Frozen".

--Anonymous
replies 64Dec 7, 2017 7:55 PM +00:00

OMG, that Caroline O'Connor L/J is so ghastly -- she has to sing the number in a SLIP ??? Plus it's damnably self-regarding as is her performing style always -- has there ever been someone less suited to that role? She'd be a good Solange, though! Mais oui!

--Anonymous
replies 65Dec 7, 2017 7:58 PM +00:00
here, I was talking about the recent/current screen to stage adaptations, the last five years have been full of shite.

So ... Big Fish, Catch Me If You Can, The Sweet Smell of Success, Waitress?

--Anonymous
replies 66Dec 7, 2017 8:06 PM +00:00
The Sun'll Come Out Tomorrow...

Every new tomorrow makes me afraid of not that something's going to come out, but when and about whom.

--Anonymous
replies 67Dec 7, 2017 9:09 PM +00:00

Sorry, r49, but the rumor Lucy put up a substantial amount of the production costs because she wanted to do the part as a major film comeback was around from the very beginning because it was true. WB, like all the other major studios, wouldn't even have gotten involved without such a commitment. IBDM denies it, Wikipedia doesn't mention it, but I was around back then and knew a lot of people who all knew it was true.

It was just all so misguided that I don't think George Cukor's withdrawing after production delays because he had other commitments made any difference at all. It was just all so wrong from both artistic and commercial aspects from the git-go.

--Ethel Mertz
replies 68Dec 7, 2017 9:29 PM +00:00

ABC put up the other half of the money. They also made Song of Norway, which goes to show what kind of artistic judgement they had then.

--Anonymous
replies 69Dec 7, 2017 9:33 PM +00:00

Anybody want to go near the old rumors that Lisa Kirk recorded alternate vocal tracks for Ball but that Ball forbid being used? Highly popular LA gossip columnist Radie Harris first published the story back before the film came out, but both Ball and WB flatly denied it and Ball even filed suit. Harris immediately retracted.

Yet the story persists. I don't think it's true because people with access have searched both the Warner document files and sound archives for decades looking for any sign of the alleged tracks and no one has ever found a thing. Something, something should have been found if the story were true.

--Anonymous
replies 70Dec 7, 2017 10:09 PM +00:00

What I heard was that Warner’s - at the request of Jerry Herman - wanted to hire Lisa Kirk after hearing Lucy’s first vocal tracks, which had to be pieced together from multiple takes.

Lucy felt her own voice was too recognizable and that it would be too obvious. She nixed it.

--Anonymous
replies 71Dec 7, 2017 10:18 PM +00:00
Warners was reluctant to finance an old fashioned musical at that point in time as most had been flops. The only reason they did is because the biggest, most popular, most beloved female star in the world agreed to do it.

I wasn't aware that Barbra, either Hepburn, or Doris Day had expressed any interest in the film. Are you trying to tell me Warners was willing to make that kind of investment in a non-musical has-been without some sort of sweetening?

--Anonymous
replies 72Dec 7, 2017 11:45 PM +00:00
a highly successful German from the mid-1950s.

You rang?

--Hildegarde Knef
replies 73Dec 8, 2017 12:21 AM +00:00
but I was around back then and knew a lot of people who all knew it was true.

Talk about an unimpeachable source!

--Anonymous
replies 74Dec 8, 2017 12:25 AM +00:00

R66, exactly, those are all horrible, either outright dud or medium “meh.”

--Anonymous
replies 75Dec 8, 2017 1:24 AM +00:00
Follies didn't use the original book, but is it as close to it as we will get? Where were Vincent and Vanessa?

Vincent and Vanessa have been gone from Follies since at least 2001. In "Sondheim and Company," Bennett says that Sondheim hates Vincent and Vanessa, but that he (Bennett) feels they are necessary to separate "all the purple numbers." I guess once the show moved on from the original production, Goldman and Sondheim felt free to cut V&V.

--Anonymous
replies 76Dec 8, 2017 1:59 AM +00:00
It's been confirmed.

Confirmed by whom?

--Anonymous
replies 77Dec 8, 2017 2:02 AM +00:00

Somebody needs to create a show around Vincent and Vanessa. Something like Rosencrantz and Guilderstern are Dead.

--Anonymous
replies 78Dec 8, 2017 3:05 AM +00:00

With the Mame movie, maybe they should have had Julie Andrews do it. She may not have been as big a box office draw, her career was waning in the mid 1970s, but at least it would have been a better movie.

--Anonymous
replies 79Dec 8, 2017 3:08 AM +00:00

Has Julie ever done an American accent?

--Anonymous
replies 80Dec 8, 2017 3:34 AM +00:00

It's about time everyone realized that MAME is not a great show and hasn't worked in any form or revival since the original Broadway production. Times have changed so much since 1966, and nothing about MAME is shocking or amusing any more and that includes the adventures and predicaments of Mame, Vera, Gooch and even Gloria Upson, not to mention the vile Mother Burnside.

It all comes off now as either very quaint, or even worse, repellent and ponderous. It's about as much fun as an old sketch from The Carol Burnett Show stretched out to 2 and 1/2 hours.

I'd wager that anyone disagreeing with me hasn't seen a production in the last 50 years.

--Go ahead, flame me!
replies 81Dec 8, 2017 3:40 AM +00:00

Who's seen ONCE ON THIS ISLAND? Is this revival really all that?

Uma Thurman is okay in PARISIAN WOMAN, mainly because she's given fabulous clothes to wear. Otherwise she doesn't much register, but that's okay, cause the ones who do register do so badly. The men in this show are giving some of the worst performances in many a year on the Great White Way. And P. Soo does little with a not-great part. The one exception: Blair Brown, who shows them all how it's done. She's exceptional.

I feel lucky to have seen FOLLIES at the National in previews. It was in intense experience, pretty damn amazing till we got to the Loveland sequence.

SPONGEBOB is excrement.

--Anonymous
replies 82Dec 8, 2017 4:23 AM +00:00

Did they at least ask Doris Day? She was one of WB's biggest stars for years, and that could have been her cinematic swan song. She could have brought some genuine charm to songs like "Open a New Window" and "My Best Girl."

--Anonymous
replies 83Dec 8, 2017 4:32 AM +00:00

Julie did a movie for Blake Edwards that year with Omar Sharif: The Tamarind Seed. It made as much of an impact as one.

--Anonymous
replies 84Dec 8, 2017 4:32 AM +00:00

R81: Considering the only revival it ever got was by all accounts a glorified bus and truck tour which nevertheless has been rumored to exist as a complete record of Angie's performance, and considering the movie's monumental shortcomings have tainted the show by association, that's not really a fair assessment. The show is aware of the vileness of the system that keeps them alive, and it has Beauregard's death in a skiing accident as a symbolic death of that retrograde mindset, and Mame goes on without a man in her life.

--Anonymous
replies 85Dec 8, 2017 4:37 AM +00:00

R85, there was a big(ish) production at Paper Mill with Christine Ebersole. She was pretty lacking in charisma, so it was hard to tell if it was her or the show itself that made the evening kind of lackluster. I do think MAME has a great score, and I'd love to see if with a dynamic performer in a first-rate production. Maybe Scott Rudin is eyeing it for his DOLLY follow-up.

--Anonymous
replies 86Dec 8, 2017 4:46 AM +00:00

We need a gay Mame!

Thomas Roberts *IS* Mame

Don Lemon *IS* Vera

Anderson Cooper *IS* Gooch

Andy Cohen *IS* ITO

Robbie Fairchild *IS* Beauregard Jackson Burnside

Ashley Day *IS* Sally Cato

--Anonymous
replies 87Dec 8, 2017 4:55 AM +00:00

Love Doris Day, but did she EVER play sophisticated? Can't envision her with a long cigarette holder downing a martini. Nor doing the physical comedy of the fox hunt.

--Anonymous
replies 88Dec 8, 2017 5:22 AM +00:00

That was part of Jerry Herman's argument against casting Lucy: she wasn't sophisticated enough. She was actually good in Yours, Mine and Ours which was a hit despite taking liberties with the truth, and that was probably what helped her get cast.

--Anonymous
replies 89Dec 8, 2017 5:30 AM +00:00

I miss Vincent and Vanessa

--Anonymous
replies 90Dec 8, 2017 5:43 AM +00:00

R77-My lawyers

--Jerry Mitchell
replies 91Dec 8, 2017 5:58 AM +00:00

Goddamn but you showtune queens are tiresome.

--Anonymous
replies 92Dec 8, 2017 6:07 AM +00:00
Love Doris Day, but did she EVER play sophisticated? Can't envision her with a long cigarette holder downing a martini. Nor doing the physical comedy of the fox hunt.

But here is where a new production could break ground if an excellent director thought it out.

Mame is not sophisticated. She worked in the legitimate theater, probably in the chorus. Mame's entire existence is put-on. She's hanging around beatnik intellectuals because it makes her look sophisticated. Mame is a forerunner of the Kardashians. If the show is approached from that angle it might be more interesting. Mame is Mama Rose, a conniver, a woman who stops at nothing to get what she wants. She loses her fortune and then gets by until she meets another rich man.

But I guess we'll have to leave it to the British to mine a show that we've not seen before. Imelda Stauton *is* Mame in National Theatre's "MAME!"

--Anonymous
replies 93Dec 8, 2017 6:08 AM +00:00
Confirmed by whom?

Lea Salonga again?

--Anonymous
replies 94Dec 8, 2017 6:11 AM +00:00

We all went to Starbucks after spilling the beans...tee hee.

--Casts of RHS, NGD, OYF
replies 95Dec 8, 2017 6:24 AM +00:00

I have it on good authority that DL fave Paula Abdul will read the NYT article to the press on the steps of her Bel Air mansion on Monday morning at 7AM

--Anonymous
replies 96Dec 8, 2017 6:27 AM +00:00

I'm a bit unclear. Vincent and Vanessa = Bolero d'Amour? Are Theodore/Emily now a conflation of Vincent/Vanessa and previous Theodore/Emily? Thanks.

--Anonymous
replies 97Dec 8, 2017 7:08 AM +00:00
Vincent and Vanessa have been gone from Follies since at least 2001.

Grover Dale played Vincent in the 2002 Reprise production in L.A. (With Bob Gunton, Patty Duke, Harry Groener and Vikki Carr.)

--Anonymous
replies 98Dec 8, 2017 7:18 AM +00:00

Ann-Margret should have been "Mame". Pauline Kael said "Mame must be played by a young smashing actress that gays find a turn-on. Constantly changing her wigs and her gowns and her decor, basking in jewels and bitchy repartee." That was right after AM's broken face and this could have been her comeback vehicle. Well, at least it would have been a better movie with her in it. Put Madeline Kahn in as Vera, not Gooch and you're set.

--Anonymous
replies 99Dec 8, 2017 7:24 AM +00:00

R99 It begs the question: why is MAME not assigned to a drag queen? (Or a guy in drag, doesn't have to be a drag performer per se)

--Anonymous
replies 100Dec 8, 2017 7:38 AM +00:00
It begs the question: why is MAME not assigned to a drag queen?

Charles Busch did the non-musical version.

www.charlesbusch.com
--Anonymous
replies 101Dec 8, 2017 7:47 AM +00:00

I think Bernadette would have made a good Mame and even though she’d NEVER take second lead under Bernadette, Patti would have been a fun Vera.

--Anonymous
replies 102Dec 8, 2017 7:50 AM +00:00

There was a pretty famous drag version of the musical done in San Francisco in the late '60s.

--Anonymous
replies 103Dec 8, 2017 7:54 AM +00:00

R30, yes from Kean. Where else!?

--Anonymous
replies 104Dec 8, 2017 7:56 AM +00:00

I read that the National Follies had Bolero in for a few performances but cut it for time. Who danced it?

--Anonymous
replies 105Dec 8, 2017 8:54 AM +00:00

They should have done an all black MAME with Diana Ross.

It's strange that they didn't do it with Liza. She was hot in the immediate wake of Cabaret.

--Anonymous
replies 106Dec 8, 2017 8:55 AM +00:00

Shoshana Bean is not a star. I repeat Shoshana Bean is NOT a star.

--Anonymous
replies 107Dec 8, 2017 9:01 AM +00:00

If MAME isn't naturally sophisticated, where did her $$ from? She isn't a widow. She had big bucks until she lost it all in the crash. Probably did acting as a kind of slumming pastime. She had no skills to make money, hence her disastrous attempts at retail and working as a telephone operator. But even if that's not the case, she had to have a faux-sophistication. Doris couldn't have pulled that off either.

--Anonymous
replies 108Dec 8, 2017 9:59 AM +00:00

I saw "Mame" when it was was produced at the Kennedy Center in 2006, with Christine Baranski as Mame and Harriet Harris as Vera. There were hopes it would move to Broadway. I knew immediately that wasn't going to happen. It wasn't terrible, but there was no magic on that stage. It was pretty much as R81 described it. Quaint. And extremely dated. Baranski's performance was adequate but had no real spark; Harris was miscast.

--Anonymous
replies 109Dec 8, 2017 10:05 AM +00:00
Put Madeline Kahn in as Vera, not Gooch and you're set.

You also risk the possibility of her not being available for Blazing Saddles. That wouldn't have been nearly as good without her.

--Anonymous
replies 110Dec 8, 2017 10:07 AM +00:00

In the awful Roundabout production, Marge Champion and Donald Saddler played Theodore and Emily Whitman and did both "Rain on the Roof" and (what it was called in that production) "Danse d'Amour".

--Anonymous
replies 111Dec 8, 2017 10:13 AM +00:00
[R99] It begs the question: why is MAME not assigned to a drag queen? (Or a guy in drag, doesn't have to be a drag performer per se)

I think different people license the theatrical rights to Auntie Mame and Mame and whoever handles the latter doesn't allow sex-reversals of the roles.

--Anonymous
replies 112Dec 8, 2017 10:14 AM +00:00

I agree completely R109. After seeing that production I concluded that MAME was pretty much unrevivable . Too bad, it's got a great score and one of the best overtures on any OCR, thanks to Philip J. Lang.

--Anonymous
replies 113Dec 8, 2017 10:18 AM +00:00

The g-word that rhymed with blender is barely speakable, never mind singable, and trying to rhyme it with "offend her" was not one of Jerry Herman's finest moments. And how many women have voices like Bea Arthur's?

--Anonymous
replies 114Dec 8, 2017 10:21 AM +00:00

Baranski is the definition of a second banana.

--A. Laurents
replies 115Dec 8, 2017 10:22 AM +00:00

I thought I said that about Catherine Zeta Jones? Someone find my quotes.

--A Laurent’s
replies 116Dec 8, 2017 10:27 AM +00:00

At least with Baranaski, you know that Mame probably lost her fortune trying to repair that awful nose job she got in her youth.

--Anonymous
replies 117Dec 8, 2017 10:27 AM +00:00

R117 = Cybill Shepherd, still bitter after 20 years

--Anonymous
replies 118Dec 8, 2017 10:28 AM +00:00

What IS Roundabout's reputation regarding musicals and do you think The Unsinkable Molly Brown coming next year will be good? The scores a dud. And the freshly dug up old trunk songs are worse.

Learn more and buy tickets: https://muny.org Like us on Facebook http://www.facebook.com/munytheatre Follow us on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/themuny Fol...
YouTube
--Anonymous
replies 119Dec 8, 2017 11:04 AM +00:00

Christine Baranski is more a Vera than a Mame. Same with Christine Ebersole in Papermill or wherever she did it. Both women are metallic and have zero warmth. Mame needs to be played by an actress who can project warmth.

--Anonymous
replies 120Dec 8, 2017 11:16 AM +00:00

I project warmth! I should be MAME!

--Betty Lynn Buckley
replies 121Dec 8, 2017 11:19 AM +00:00

Several years ago, I stage managed a summer stock production of Unsinkable Molly Brown. It's just not revivable. There's nothing there. The book is terrible, the music is less than average. It's a bore unless you have some firecracker of an actress. And since these days, all musical actresses are from the Vanilla Music Theater Academy, you aren't going to get a Molly with any spark. So the best they should hope for is a concert version because it's not a good show.

--Anonymous
replies 122Dec 8, 2017 11:19 AM +00:00

But what about the Molly "revisal" from Denver last year?

Anyone there to see it?

--Anonymous
replies 123Dec 8, 2017 11:24 AM +00:00

I have to agree with r122. The Unsinkable Molly Brown is a stinker, and I don't understand why they're trying to dig it up and make it work. It can't, not with that score.It has three or four 'B' level songs (Are You Sure?, I Ain't Down Yet, I'll Never Say No, Chick-a-Pen), and the rest are garbage.

--Anonymous
replies 124Dec 8, 2017 11:29 AM +00:00

The best scene in Molly Brown is at the end of Act 1. Molly Brown is trying to get into high society and she's being snubbed by everyone. But she takes it as a challenge and yells something like "You'll see Mrs. (rich lady who is snubbing her) I'll get all of you to like me." Then they end with a reprise of I Ain't Down Yet. Bleehhhhhhhhhh!

Provided to YouTube by Universal Music Group I Ain't Down Yet (Reprise) · Original Broadway Cast of 'The Unsinkable Molly Brown' The Unsinkable Molly Brown ?...
YouTube
--Anonymous
replies 125Dec 8, 2017 11:30 AM +00:00

The production in St. Louis got strong reviews. My husband saw it and said its very different than the original. He thought Malone was amazing.

Hannibal Missouri's own brash and beguiling Molly Brown shines in this exhilarating adaptation of Meredith Willson's 1960 musical. Her rags-to-riches story sparkles with a new book by Dick Scanlan (Thoroughly Modern Millie), and new songs from the Meredith Willson songbook.
BroadwayWorld.com
--Anonymous
replies 126Dec 8, 2017 11:36 AM +00:00

And this...

The surprise of The Muny season — a rip-roaring, rollicking “The Unsinkable Molly Brown” — is a Rocky Mountain high full of wonder.
bnd
--Anonymous
replies 127Dec 8, 2017 11:37 AM +00:00
OMG, that Caroline O'Connor L/J is so ghastly -- she has to sing the number in a SLIP ??? Plus it's damnably self-regarding as is her performing style always -- has there ever been someone less suited to that role?

Wouldn't you say there's supposed to be large element of self regard in the character Phyllis as written?

What I heard was that Warner’s - at the request of Jerry Herman - wanted to hire Lisa Kirk after hearing Lucy’s first vocal tracks, which had to be pieced together from multiple takes. Lucy felt her own voice was too recognizable and that it would be too obvious. She nixed it.

I don't know how close Kirk came to post-dubbing the songs, or whether Lucy herself had enough power to nix it, but I do remember Lucy saying in some TV interview (maybe with Merv Griffin?) something along the lines of how there had been discussion of bringing "someone" else in to sing for her. I don't remember for sure if Kirk ever addressed the rumor.

Several years ago, I stage managed a summer stock production of Unsinkable Molly Brown. It's just not revivable. There's nothing there. The book is terrible, the music is less than average.

I think there are a few really good songs in it. I've never seen a stage production. Is the original book that much different from the script for the movie, because I don't think that script is terrible.

I have to agree with [R122]. The Unsinkable Molly Brown is a stinker, and I don't understand why they're trying to dig it up and make it work. It can't, not with that score.It has three or four 'B' level songs (Are You Sure?, I Ain't Down Yet, I'll Never Say No, Chick-a-Pen), and the rest are garbage.

"Belly Up to the Bar Boys" and "Colorado, My Home" are also good songs.

--Anonymous
replies 128Dec 8, 2017 11:40 AM +00:00

R122, I've got a tape of the Molly Brown revisal. It's still not good, because the underlying material is not good. They did that version at St. Louis Muny this summer, and the promo video is probably still on YouTube - check it out. It's ridiculously bad.

--Anonymous
replies 129Dec 8, 2017 11:42 AM +00:00

Favorite moment in the revised Molly Brown - the opening, Molly's on the lifeboat from the Titanic. Then she gets out of the boat and walks (on water!) forward to tell us her story.

--Anonymous
replies 130Dec 8, 2017 11:46 AM +00:00

and how about a reviewer we KNOW-not the Belleville News-Democrat.

Dick Scanlan is an uninspired writer with a penchant for rewriting other peoples work.

Not one original thought in his body.

--Anonymous
replies 131Dec 8, 2017 11:47 AM +00:00

but Beth is PERFECTION!

--Anonymous
replies 132Dec 8, 2017 11:48 AM +00:00
I do remember Lucy saying in some TV interview (maybe with Merv Griffin?) something along the lines of how there had been discussion of bringing "someone" else in to sing for her.

That episode is kind of sad now, because the whole thing was to celebrate the opening of "Mame," which was going to be a couple of days later - the horrible reviews hadn't come out yet, and Lucy (and Lucie, who's also a guest) still thinks it's going to be a great big hit. She actually mentions Lisa Kirk's name, though - when she talks about how it would be impossible to dub her because of her well known voice - and she mentions that Kirk is so talented and has her own wonderful career (ie, so she doesn't need to be a voice ghost for Lucy).

--Anonymous
replies 133Dec 8, 2017 11:48 AM +00:00

If Molly Brown has only a handful of good songs, could it work as a movie (remake)? Gentlemen Prefer Blondes only has a handful of songs in its movie adaptation. And it seems that screenwriters more often improve on stage books than stage revisal writers do.

--Anonymous
replies 134Dec 8, 2017 11:51 AM +00:00

She told Phil Donahue they couldn't find a close enough match. That didn't seem to matter on Here's Lucy where Carole Cook sounded nothing like her.

--Anonymous
replies 135Dec 8, 2017 11:51 AM +00:00

Can someone tell me what is the driving force between revivals of terrible shows? Is it a producer wanting a tax write-off? How are there teams of people wanting to put up such dreck?

--Anonymous
replies 136Dec 8, 2017 11:53 AM +00:00

Can someone tell me what is the driving force between new shows that are just as bad or worse, R136?

--Anonymous
replies 137Dec 8, 2017 11:58 AM +00:00

Thanks, R133. I guess I didn't remember it clearly. Or maybe it was another TV interview where Lucy mentioned the idea of dubbing her singing but didn't mention Kirk by name. I do remember how, on Merv Griffin, Lucie Arnaz and Gary Morton and everyone else seemed to think MAME was going to be a huge hit. Isn't it true that it WAS a hit at Radio City, and only started to flop in general release?

Can someone tell me what is the driving force between revivals of terrible shows? Is it a producer wanting a tax write-off? How are there teams of people wanting to put up such dreck?

I think title recognition is the answer. Whether you love or hate MOLLY BROWN, the title is pretty well known among older theatergoers.

--Anonymous
replies 138Dec 8, 2017 11:58 AM +00:00

Broadway Chatter is that DL fave Kristin Chenoweth is in talks for Molly Brown

--Anonymous
replies 139Dec 8, 2017 12:00 PM +00:00
I think title recognition is the answer. Whether you love or hate MOLLY BROWN, the title is pretty well known among older theatergoers.

But how many theatergoers under 40 are seeing them? I'd like to go to things like this since I wasn't alive when they were new, but I live on the other side of the country.

--Anonymous
replies 140Dec 8, 2017 12:02 PM +00:00

It sounds like the Muny gutted most of the score and replaced the gutted songs with crap just as bad.

I had read at one point that when Lucille Ball was looking to return to Broadway, she was offered "Wildcat" and "Molly Brown." So Tammy Grimes owes her career to Lucy Ball.

Learn more and buy tickets: https://muny.org Like us on Facebook http://www.facebook.com/munytheatre Follow us on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/themuny Fol...
YouTube
--Anonymous
replies 141Dec 8, 2017 12:15 PM +00:00

Wildcat wasn't Ball's return, R141. It was her debut.

I saw the original Molly Brown. It played very well, because Grimes was such a firecracker, and then you had the added fun of the big cast, tons of scenery, and great choreography that musicals so often had in those days.

It's not a great show, no. But when done full out with a leading lady with spark, it's very entertaining.

As a footnote, I revisited the work at Westbury Music Fair much later, with Grimes in her old role. She was just walking through it, and the whole thing was very soggy. I didn't think she was all that interesting in Private Lives or 42nd Street, either. Capable, but no longer looking to be special.

--Anonymous
replies 142Dec 8, 2017 12:21 PM +00:00

Account of Dustin Hoffman, Broadway Groper.

Kathryn Rossetter performed eight times a week with the star in 'Death of a Salesman' — but, she writes, a dream job soon became "a horrific, demoralizing and abusive experience at the hands (literally) of one of my acting idols."
The Hollywood Reporter
--Anonymous
replies 143Dec 8, 2017 12:25 PM +00:00

Chick in the article above said she didn't notice he was cupping her breast. What, did she shoot them up with novocaine? How do you not feel a hand pressed that tightly on your tit? I call bullshit.

--Anonymous
replies 144Dec 8, 2017 12:28 PM +00:00

Warners first thought "Mame" would be a hit so they scheduled a Christmas release in time for Oscars. When they saw it, they knew how insane the notion was and pushed the release back to Spring. They still spent money on the promotion as the Cinerama Dome in LA was decked out as a giant Easter Bonnet.

2.bp.blogspot.com
--Anonymous
replies 145Dec 8, 2017 12:33 PM +00:00

Over on All That Chat, someone just posted a video of John Cullum talking about On the Twentieth Century. Unfortunately, his wife is there, too, constantly interrupting with insipid doodads just when he's saying something interesting.

Apparently, it's his wife, and she's singularly uncharming.

--Anonymous
replies 146Dec 8, 2017 2:08 PM +00:00

Yes r146, she is.

Em confesses she was jealous of Madeline, when John was rehearsing with Madeline for he musical, "On the Twentieth Century," in which they both starred. John...
YouTube
--Shuddup already, I'm talking bitch!
replies 147Dec 8, 2017 2:11 PM +00:00

Blowing Cameron can only take you so far I guess.

Willy Falk, best known for his Tony nominated performance as Chris in the original Broadway production of Miss Saigon will play Professor Callahan in Dream Theater's production of Legally Blonde which begins performances January 26, 2018.
BroadwayWorld.com
--Anonymous
replies 148Dec 8, 2017 2:17 PM +00:00

Falk didn’t blow Mackintosh. Hytner blew Falk.

--Anonymous
replies 149Dec 8, 2017 2:47 PM +00:00
Hytner blew Falk.

Well, if Lincoln Center "Carousel" is any indication he also blew Michael Hayden, because Hayden sure didn't have the chops for Billy Bigelow.

--Audra "Make Mine A Barbacoa" McDonald
replies 150Dec 8, 2017 3:06 PM +00:00

I think a MAME revival is possible, but it needs a slight revamp to the book. It was never as good as the play. It's impossible to think of a huge star who could even come close to filling the role's requirements these days. Toni Collette and Jane Krakowski come to mind, but I don't think they're equally marquee names.

--Anonymous
replies 151Dec 8, 2017 3:16 PM +00:00
It's impossible to think of a huge star who could even come close to filling the role's requirements these days.

Ahem!

--Catherine Zeta-Jones
replies 152Dec 8, 2017 3:18 PM +00:00

R152- CZJ, dear, you are far too young for the part. Mame needs to be over 40.

--Anonymous
replies 153Dec 8, 2017 5:47 PM +00:00

Saw "School Girls" tonight at the Lortel. Great play with a great young cast. And it's short, too -- 75 minutes, no intermission, and you're outta there. I highly recommend this one.

Andy Mientus was sitting a few rows behind us. He's very cute in person.

--Anonymous
replies 154Dec 8, 2017 6:06 PM +00:00

The only hope for Molly Brown on Broadway is if Reba finally agrees to do it. End of story.

--Anonymous
replies 155Dec 8, 2017 6:25 PM +00:00

The revisal craze combines the feeling of:

a) minimizing risk - revisals are done on shows that probably worked, or at least partially worked, before. This is one of the reasons people are so hot for good catalog shows too. If you loved Coca-Cola before, wait until you taste New Coke!

THE UNSINKABLE MOLLY BROWN recouped on Broadway and had a healthy tour, stock and amateur life before becoming one of those "shows no one does anymore" like BELLS ARE RINGING or WONDERFUL TOWN. The film was a massive hit, the 12th highest grossing film of the year even as musicals were falling out of favor. It's the last real MGM musical.in a lot of ways. The property has a not insubstantial amount of success in its past; revising a MOLLY BROWN or PAJAMA GAME is NOT the same as revising WHAT MAKES SAMMY RUN? or MACK AND MABEL or something that's always been a commercial flop.

b) looking down your nose at the past - it's so much easier to congratulate yourself on how enlightened you are, and say "that hoary old book, it'll never do now, oh, it's so un-PC and simpleminded" than to write your own show and score from scratch about the same historical character, or using the same storyline. Rewriting a dead writer's work meets no resistance, and if you flop with your new version your out clause is to say "well the problems with the original book went deeper than we thought."

c) putting your own stamp on the work of the revered deceased - the rewriter-as-rescuer, as the person who knows better than those people back in the day ever did. Let's throw out all that old stuff and put in some of MY stuff, not only is it as good as what those dead guys wrote, it's even BETTER, but I'm still going to help myself to whatever lines and songs of theirs I like so I can co-opt the show's original success for myself and my career.

The Debbie Reynolds-Harve Presnell 1990s tour (there's a good bootleg of it) did a good job of cutting the score and streamlining the book. It also put in a flashback to accommodate an older actress playing Molly. Interestingly, some of the songs that weren't sung in the film made their way back into the Reynolds/Presnell stage version, and they put in "He's My Friend" from the movie. Meredith Willson lived till 1984, and there was nothing stopping him from revising his score for 24 years if he'd wanted to.

The original TUMB gets off to a rousing start, and the Act I score is not bad. It's in Act II when the plot slows down and there are some real dog songs that the show starts sinking under its own weight and you start looking at your watch. Even in the 1960s critics were pointing out the flaws in the story, and the score isn't written in a style so that it will match a book that has had a modern sensibility grafted onto it in a rewrite, no matter how many interesting actual historical facts get namechecked. It's always been an awards bait show for the actress playing Molly, another role for your actress who played Annie Oakley, Nellie Forbush, Sally Adams, or any number of roles like that. The person who mentioned Reba is right; MOLLY BROWN is nothing if not a celebrity appearance show. So it burns hot with charisma and choreography (when you have Peter Gennaro) and the rags-to-riches spectacle of it all. You keep it loud and big and as sincere as you can, and by all means, keep it moving.

This MOLLY BROWN revisal, which I haven't seen and know nothing about, has been in development since 2009. Review of 1990 Debbie road show version at link.

Offsite Link
--Gus Trikonis
replies 156Dec 8, 2017 6:35 PM +00:00

Oh, r156, all that effort to try to convince people that Molly Brown is a worthy property for revival, when it has always been a third rate show. It’s heyday of “tour, community theatre, college, and stock” lasted only through the 1960s. It was solidly forgotten until 1989 when Dame Debbie, having had stage success in 1977 with Annie Get Your Gun, decided to take the turd that was close to her heart out for another spin.

Interestingly, some of the songs that weren't sung in the film made their way back into the Reynolds/Presnell stage version, and they put in "He's My Friend" from the movie.

Those songs didn’t “make their way back” into the show, they never left. They were doing the STAGE version with all songs Davis with one unfortunate exception. “He’s My Friebd” was interpolated from the film to replace “Are You Sure?,” just as if has in the movie, which is a pity since “Are You Sure?” Is a much better song.

The only thing you be said for the rewrite is that it recognizes that and uses both songs.

It’s not a good show. And it’s not a title that many people know anymore. The film is not a beloved classic, it’s not all that good, either. No one, but no one, is waiting with baited breath to see The Unsinkable Molly Brown again.

--Anonymous
replies 157Dec 8, 2017 7:27 PM +00:00

He's My Friend is one of the all time greatest dance numbers ever put on film.

It truly blows me away every time I see it.

Nobody but nobody today has the chops and charisma performers did then.

Who the fuck trains today's dancers?

They demand nothing from them except busywork.

And who had the brilliant(really) idea of having Grover wear red socks?

--Anonymous
replies 158Dec 8, 2017 7:34 PM +00:00

I don't think R156 was necessarily going to bat for a Molly Brown revisal, more explaining how it would check off the familiar revisal boxes.

If we didn't already know what her singing voice sounds like, I'd suggest someone out of the box like Cameron Diaz for Mame. Remember, Angela was "that woman who plays everybody's mother" by the mid-'60s.

--Anonymous
replies 159Dec 8, 2017 7:43 PM +00:00
I think a MAME revival is possible, but it needs a slight revamp to the book. It was never as good as the play

It’s better than the play, actually. Combining Gooch and Norah Muldoon was a master stroke, among other things. Getting rid of Brian O’Bannion was also a wise decision.

--Anonymous
replies 160Dec 8, 2017 8:07 PM +00:00
Falk didn’t blow Mackintosh. Hytner blew Falk.

Isn’t it possible that Falk blew Mackintosh while Hytner was blowing him?

--Le
replies 161Dec 8, 2017 8:11 PM +00:00

Willy's agent is a friend of mine. I can check with her.

--Anonymous
replies 162Dec 8, 2017 8:53 PM +00:00

I'm guessing he had a particularly nice dick because the face... shades of Joel Grey.

--Anonymous
replies 163Dec 8, 2017 9:20 PM +00:00

There is just NO FUCKING WAY Beth Malone will sell that shit show, none, it will close before it opens. She is a talented lady, but a star she ain’t.

--Anonymous
replies 164Dec 8, 2017 9:40 PM +00:00

The problem with “Mame” is.....Mame.. Who can really play her? Roz and Angela are tough acts to follow.

--. Anon
replies 165Dec 8, 2017 9:43 PM +00:00
There is just NO FUCKING WAY Beth Malone will sell that shit show, none, it will close before it opens. She is a talented lady, but a star she ain’t.

Malone isn't a huge star but I'm betting she would be after critics rave about her must see performance. Now if they can find backers to take a gamble.

--Anonymous
replies 166Dec 8, 2017 11:14 PM +00:00

Critics raved about Malone's must-see performance in Fun Home, and she still isn't a star.

--Anonymous
replies 167Dec 9, 2017 1:19 AM +00:00

What it looks like when a lesbian kisses a fat old man with thinning hair.

www.denvercenter.org
--Anonymous
replies 168Dec 9, 2017 1:23 AM +00:00

Yikes! R168! Now THAT is an image that will sell a show...right into oblivion.

--Anonymous
replies 169Dec 9, 2017 2:21 AM +00:00

Harris seems like a natural for Vera, r109 - in what way(s) did she seem miscast (I didn't see it and am genuinely asking)

--Anonymous
replies 170Dec 9, 2017 2:44 AM +00:00

With Vera, I think that Bea Arthur's performance is so etched in our minds, that we think Vera should always be played with that dry, sarcastic, withering style that Bea perfected.

Does anyone know if Jerry Herman wrote Vera's music with Bea Arthur in mind?

--Anonymous
replies 171Dec 9, 2017 3:43 AM +00:00

I don't think Arthur supplanted Coral Browne.

--Anonymous
replies 172Dec 9, 2017 3:46 AM +00:00

Bea Arthur is a drag queen.

Coral Browne is an elegant, sophisticated acerbic lesbian.

I prefer the second.

--Anonymous
replies 173Dec 9, 2017 3:50 AM +00:00
I think a MAME revival is possible, but it needs a slight revamp to the book. It was never as good as the play. It's impossible to think of a huge star who could even come close to filling the role's requirements these days. Toni Collette and Jane Krakowski come to mind, but I don't think they're equally marquee names.

The biggest structural differences between Mame and Auntie Mame are the combining of Norah Muldoon and Agnes Gooch and changing the ending; Auntie Mame has the house next to the Upsons' turning into a refuge for Jewish war orphans, tying into their none-too-subtle antisemitism (that was still common in the 1950s and even my grandparents faced housing discrimination because of it), but in the musical it becomes the unwed mothers' home, tying into Gooch's being knocked up and single. Can't it be both? Why not maximize the Upsons' outrage? People seem to remember the flamboyant gestures and declarations of hedonism but forget things like that: she challenges the bigotry of the bourgeoisie by going into the belly of the beast that is American racism and anti-semitism. Today she would be smoking weed with the poor and unfortunate and playing matchmaker to gay men held hostage in ex-gay camps!

--Anonymous
replies 174Dec 9, 2017 3:53 AM +00:00

The biggest problem with Molly Brown, both the original and the revival, is there's no real conflict.

Molly and her man quickly marry and get rich before Act I is over. Then there's no where to go. Their break up seems totally unrealistic and unreasonable and it's hard to be sympathetic to Molly's yearnings for high society when those in it are so reprehensible. And then Molly's reunion with her husband at the end comes out of nowhere and no real motivation.

It's odd that the one truly big event in her life, being a survivor of the Titanic, is so minimized. But then, how do you stage that in a musical??

--Anonymous
replies 175Dec 9, 2017 4:53 AM +00:00

I agree r175. There really isn't any interesting story in Molly Brown. I find it interesting that Annie Get Your Gun is still being done and they are essentially the same story. But with AGYG, she has the framework of show business and being the sharpshooter. So when Annie sings about high society and wanting a big, fashionable wedding, we enjoy it with her. With Molly, it just seems like she's grasping for a high society life.

--Anonymous
replies 176Dec 9, 2017 5:06 AM +00:00

R149 is wrong. Willy was Cameron’s boy toy. Lea did NOT like him as Chris and went to Hynter who had Willy replaced.

--Anonymous
replies 177Dec 9, 2017 5:12 AM +00:00

And... I Want an Old-Fashioned Wedding wasn't even in the original r176.

--I hear singing and there's no one there.....except you Ethel
replies 178Dec 9, 2017 5:24 AM +00:00

Well, out of the Annie movie songs I think "Sign" would work better in the context of the actual play than "We Got Annie" which was actually a trunk song to begin with. But it ain't gonna happen.

--Anonymous
replies 179Dec 9, 2017 5:25 AM +00:00

That's easy for you to say, R179.

--Anonymous
replies 180Dec 9, 2017 5:28 AM +00:00

I can see Lea doing that actually - with her perfect pitch, she probably couldn’t stand Willy’s flat notes, which seen many and regular if his YouTube page is anything to go by.

Imagine what she’d do if she had to do a show with the ever sharp Ramin...

--Anonymous
replies 181Dec 9, 2017 5:41 AM +00:00

We've known why Willy was cast as Chris for years. It's because he was fucking Cameron, and vice versa.

--Everybody in the original cast
replies 182Dec 9, 2017 5:41 AM +00:00

Not to mention one other little thing R176: Annie Get Your Gun has a GREAT score and Molly DOESNT.

Even though the new "writer" Scanlan thinks it's AMAZING.

Dick Scanlan is the ONLY reason this is getting traction. And R156's brilliant post can all apply to him as well- he is stuck in the past with great disdain and jealousy towards other more talented and modern creators. The same disdain he feels for Sherie Rene Scott, his current repeat "collaborator." Yet she's JUST as viciously jealous. But the only returning collaborator able to tolerate his poor taste and extreme mental issues being mental herself.

And also, what R156 said relates to the thieving nature of Scanlan himself- " putting your own stamp on the work of the revered deceased - the rewriter-as-rescuer, as the person who knows better than those people back in the day ever did. Let's throw out all that old stuff and put in some of MY stuff, not only is it as good as what those dead guys wrote, it's even BETTER, but I'm still going to help myself to whatever lines and songs of theirs I like so I can co-opt the show's original success for myself and my career. "--

-well that's Scanlan to a T !

Reba was as bored during the reading as we were. She OBVIOUSLY was there wanting to recreate her Annie success, but Molly SUCKS and she knew it! And Dick Scanlan's habitual manipulations and clever words failed to enlist her for he couldnt back it up with as clever a script.

And now that his buddy is no longer reviewing for the NYTimes, lets see what his chances of a good review are.

--Anonymous
replies 183Dec 9, 2017 5:48 AM +00:00

Agree that MOLLY is unrevisable, but the score is far more attractive and tuneful than such dogs as NEXT TO NORMAL, CHRISTMAS STORY, COME FROM AWAY, and dozens of other recent scores.

That being said, Annaleigh Ashford could make a fun Molly.

--Anonymous
replies 184Dec 9, 2017 6:02 AM +00:00

agreed about the "dogs" R184

--Anonymous
replies 185Dec 9, 2017 6:07 AM +00:00

Brandon Uranoitz Max Von Essen and DL fave Robbie Fairchild posted pics of the 3 of them hanging. I know Max is partnered but surely the 3 of them had some hanky panky that afternoon?

--Anonymous
replies 186Dec 9, 2017 6:23 AM +00:00

They did a show together for almost a year, dumbass.

--Anonymous
replies 187Dec 9, 2017 7:01 AM +00:00

Is Kristin Chenoweth considering starring as Molly? Or did I just read this here?

And isn't this revisal just something Roundabout is workshopping? I don't think there are commercial producers attached unless you consider the director and her husband.

--Anonymous
replies 188Dec 9, 2017 7:14 AM +00:00

If it's going to be Roundabout, you can count on the whole crapfest stinking to high heaven.

--Anonymous
replies 189Dec 9, 2017 7:28 AM +00:00

R170, Harriet Harris had nothing of the grand dame about her. It was hard to imagine her as a star of the stage whom someone might confuse with Tallulah Bankhead. Her Vera seemed like a ditzy frau who drinks too much. And no, I wasn't expecting her to be Bea Arthur. But I certainly expected her to be better than she was.

--Anonymous
replies 190Dec 9, 2017 7:54 AM +00:00

Or, in "Auntie Mame," confuse with Helen Hayes.

--Helen Highwater
replies 191Dec 9, 2017 8:42 AM +00:00
Today she would be smoking weed with the poor and unfortunate and playing matchmaker to gay men held hostage in ex-gay camps!

Been there, done that.

--Stephanie Blake
replies 192Dec 9, 2017 9:05 AM +00:00
And it's short, too -- 75 minutes, no intermission, and you're outta there. I highly recommend this one.

Frank DeCaro used to tout this as a virtue when he had a radio show and I never understood it. What's the point of paying substantial money and going out for the evening if you're not even going to get at least an hour and a half of entertainment? I do not think 2 hours is unreasonable, and for me, a full two act musical that ends just before 11:00 is heaven.

Of course, that means that the creative team has to come up with good material that keeps the audience engaged for the entire time, but Kaufman and Hart, Rodgers and Hammerstein, Arthur Miller, Edward Albee, and countless others had no trouble doing it.

Or is the smart-phone generation incapable of being off their phones for more than 75 minutes?

--old coot
replies 193Dec 9, 2017 9:06 AM +00:00

You could always expect ME to be Bea Arthur r190!

78.media.tumblr.com
--Miss Anne Francine
replies 194Dec 9, 2017 11:04 AM +00:00

agree (r193)

when i heard "meteor shower" was 80 mins. i said wtf! movies are longer than that

--Anonymous
replies 195Dec 9, 2017 11:16 AM +00:00

Mame should be updated. At the end, she can open a refugee camp in Darien for unwed gay Muslims who would have been executed in their homeland.

--Anonymous
replies 196Dec 9, 2017 11:51 AM +00:00
"We Got Annie" which was actually a trunk song to begin with.

“We Got Annie” wasn’t a trunk song. It was written for the show, and was in the Goodspeed production. It was sung, more or less, in the place where “We’d Like to Thank You, Herbert Hoover” is now. It’s actually a great song, but you can’t tell from the movie, where it’s completely rewritten - even to the point where the title phrase is in a different musical place than it is in the original song.

--Anonymous
replies 197Dec 9, 2017 12:00 PM +00:00
know Max is partnered but surely the 3 of them had some hanky panky that afternoon?

Yes, because it’s impossible for three men to get together without wanting to have sex with each other, right? God, you’re an asshole. Go watch Poppins.

--Anonymous
replies 198Dec 9, 2017 12:02 PM +00:00

Small themes require small canvases.

--Anonymous
replies 199Dec 9, 2017 12:31 PM +00:00

Should I see M Butterfly?!

--Anonymous
replies 200Dec 9, 2017 12:36 PM +00:00

It IS impossible for 3 men to get together and not have sex.

Just ask Next Door Studios

--Anonymous
replies 201Dec 9, 2017 1:10 PM +00:00

no

--Anonymous
replies 202Dec 9, 2017 1:17 PM +00:00

Spongebob also doesn't seem to be selling well, oddly, despite the rave review from NYT. Miss Saigon, on its last legs, outsold it last week. What's to happen of Spongie? Is Viacom backing this show?

--Anonymous
replies 203Dec 9, 2017 1:33 PM +00:00

You can't judge SpongeBob's earnings from last week. Half of the week went to press seats and comps for opening.

--Anonymous
replies 204Dec 9, 2017 1:39 PM +00:00

[R204] you're right, forgot it opened last week. seems like it's already been running a while! but still, it's on TDF ALL the time.

--Anonymous
replies 205Dec 9, 2017 1:41 PM +00:00

Who the fuck says HANKY PANKY???

--Anonymous
replies 206Dec 9, 2017 1:52 PM +00:00

Jeff Barry?

--Anonymous
replies 207Dec 9, 2017 2:40 PM +00:00

So based on the reviews, I guess we can expect SpongeBob to get a Best Musical Tony nom?

--Anonymous
replies 208Dec 9, 2017 3:13 PM +00:00

Ben Brantley must have Nickelodeon stock. Talk about tailoring a review to the benefit of the doubt. Spongebob, the musical has all the charms and taste of Olive Garden, the dinner. Tourists will take comfort its familiarity and dumb-downed kitsch. Everyone is working exceedingly hard and well. The newbie playing Spongebob is game, energetic and cute. Gavin Lee is a delight in his brilliant costume and leading the one musical moment in the show that has any charm and excitement. The last ten minutes are sweetly sentimental, so you feel like a heel admitting you were overwhelmed with blazing, loud and amped-up sensory tricks, but still bored, passing the acts looking at every aspect of the set, admiring the clever costumes and choreography but never really engaged and certainly not moved. What music? But it hardly matters. The millennials love knowing the jokes, kids are distracted enough to sit still with their parents and the streamers and beach balls at the end convince everyone else that a good time was had by....someone. ADHD, the musical. Good news for all concerned! Long my it gurgle.

--Anonymous
replies 209Dec 9, 2017 3:16 PM +00:00

Saw an interview with Billy Crudup tonight and was kinda surprised -- I'd never seen him interviewed before and just expected he would be one of these brooding, very serious type of actors with little to no personality. Instead he came off as very pleasant, jovial and like someone who's very happy to just be a working actor. Who here has met or worked with him? What were your impressions of him?

I hasten to add he's also still very hot with a little bit of a weathered look that really works for him.

--Anonymous
replies 210Dec 9, 2017 3:18 PM +00:00

Billy Crudup is a swine. He left his pregnant girlfriend (Mary Louise Parker) to be with Claire Danes.

--Anonymous
replies 211Dec 9, 2017 3:23 PM +00:00

Is Spongebob even remotely coherent? The whole "every song is by a different composer" thing made the cast recording sound all over the place. Does it somehow work within the context of the show?

--Anonymous
replies 212Dec 9, 2017 3:41 PM +00:00

Oh Geez, I didn't know Tina Landau directed SpongeBob. She's the one that bored everyone to tears with the Bells Are Ringing revival. She took a fun, silly musical and turned it into a boring, dull slog.

--Anonymous
replies 213Dec 9, 2017 3:54 PM +00:00

Was scanning through the stations and found ABC is broadcasting Mary Poppins. It's just as oversweet, saccherine and WONDERFUL as I remembered it.

--Anonymous
replies 214Dec 9, 2017 4:10 PM +00:00
Billy Crudup is a swine. He left his pregnant girlfriend (Mary Louise Parker) to be with Claire Danes.

Not to excuse what Crudup did, but MLP is fucking insane. Can you imagine what she’d be like pregnant? With a hormonal imbalance? On some level, I don’t doubt he was electing for self preservation. Not an excuse, but a reason...

--Anonymous
replies 215Dec 9, 2017 4:16 PM +00:00
Not to excuse what Crudup did, but MLP is fucking insane. Can you imagine what she’d be like pregnant? With a hormonal imbalance? On some level, I don’t doubt he was electing for self preservation. Not an excuse, but a reason...

If he couldn't figure that out two seconds after he met her, then he was thinking with his dick and not his brain. Dude should have worn a condom. Or maybe he liked her because she got into freaky shit?

--Anonymous
replies 216Dec 9, 2017 4:18 PM +00:00

Do we even know if the kid is Crudup's? Is it not just as likely that he left a cheating girlfriend and like a stand-up guy did not announce to the world that the child came from a one-night stand?

I mean if you met Parker....

--Anonymous
replies 217Dec 9, 2017 5:15 PM +00:00

Anyone know anything about this show "Encores" on ABC tomorrow (after "Frozen?") Kristen Bell hosts -- it's about a group of people (students?) who did "Into the Woods" 20 years ago and are now reuniting or something. Sounds very weird.

--Anonymous
replies 218Dec 9, 2017 5:59 PM +00:00

In the "Encore" commercial, the guys are comparing notes about who kissed the most girls. They are probably the only boys in history who did theater in high school who ever had that conversation.

Although these particular guys are very schlubby and unattractive for guys in their late 30s, so they probably wandered into the rehearsal room by mistake or got blackmailed into joining drama club.

--Anonymous
replies 219Dec 9, 2017 6:07 PM +00:00

Well, MP is over, but the second act could have improved the film with some judicial cutting. But I can understand why Disney was reluctant to do that because some of the scenes that make the film run too long are wonderful in their own right.

--R214
replies 220Dec 9, 2017 6:25 PM +00:00

How many times has MACK & MABEL been tinkered with? Its score is far superior too Molly Brown, and the dark original ending (which shocked audiences then) might work today.

--Anonymous
replies 221Dec 9, 2017 6:46 PM +00:00

I am now watching the film version of The Rainmaker, the source material for 110 Ten in the Shade. Lancaster and Hepburn are both wonderful, despite each being10 to 20 years too old for their roles.

--R214
replies 222Dec 9, 2017 6:48 PM +00:00

Mack and Mabel has a glorious score but the book is so dishonest. Mabel and Sennett had a brief fling, not a long affair, and Mabel died years later from tuberculous and pneumonia; she didn't OD.

--Anonymous
replies 223Dec 9, 2017 6:55 PM +00:00

^ tuberculosis, not tuberculous. Sorry.

--Anonymous
replies 224Dec 9, 2017 6:59 PM +00:00

Speaking of Jill Haworth, I'm watching her right now on an old "Outer Limits" episode on MeTV. She was a lovely young woman.

--Anonymous
replies 225Dec 9, 2017 8:14 PM +00:00
and Mabel died years later from tuberculous and pneumonia; she didn't OD.

Mack & Mabel isn’t dishonest as much as it is heavily fictionalized - which the authors were always upfront about.. It doesn’t say anything about Mabel overdosing. It shows her suffering the effects of her drug addiction, and then goes on to relate than Mack and Mabel made one more film, and that Mabel died in1930. It doesn’t mention a cause, but it’s true that her drug addiction left her in a physical state that made her particularly susceptible to the tb that killed her. (The new, revised version doesn’t mention her death at all).

The musical’s biggest lie is its portrayal of William Desmond Taylor as a hardcore drug abuser who led Mabel down that path. In reality, Taylor was the one who tried to get Mabel off drugs. He was also gay, hinted at with the character of “Serge,” his assistant.

--Anonymous
replies 226Dec 9, 2017 9:10 PM +00:00

Mary Louise Parker isn’t just crazy, she’s a royal bitch. I’m not surprised Crudup left her.

--Anonymous
replies 227Dec 9, 2017 9:13 PM +00:00

Jerry Herman's farts have more memorable melodies than 99% of modern Broadway.

--Anonymous
replies 228Dec 9, 2017 9:37 PM +00:00
R34 The Sweet Danger of Fran Gumm

Is that a specialty song written for the show? Wow....it's a LOSER. Even she can't make it interesting.

--Anonymous
replies 229Dec 9, 2017 9:42 PM +00:00

"Sweet Danger" is by Robert Wright and Chet Forrest from the flop musical "Kean" - it's actually a good song, but it needs to be SUNG - by a legit theatre voice - not by the haggard shell of a voice Judy had left by the time she did it. The "pop" arrangement didn't do the song any favors, either.

--Hello, Blueturd
replies 230Dec 9, 2017 9:47 PM +00:00
R58 Did she keep screaming out "Line!" in the middle of the song?

HEY, bitch...!!!....that was MY signature attention getter!!!

www.thewrap.com
--Anonymous
replies 231Dec 9, 2017 9:47 PM +00:00

Thank you, r213. Landau even had the divine Faith Prince as a memorable Ella and she still screwed the whole thing up.

--Anonymous
replies 232Dec 9, 2017 9:55 PM +00:00
R93 But here is where a new production could break ground if an excellent director thought it out.

Oh god...please NO. The only number I really like is Gooch's "What Do I Do Now."

I even find the original movie really loooooooong. (Though the clothes are fabulous.)

2.bp.blogspot.com
--Anonymous
replies 233Dec 9, 2017 9:59 PM +00:00
R99 Ann-Margret should have been "Mame".

Except it's ostensibly a comedy. Has A-M been in any good ones??

And I don't inherently see Mame as being young. In the book her hair's going gray, I think, when Patrick's in college, so you'd think she'd have to be pushing 40 when he arrives (?) Maybe (?)

--Anonymous
replies 234Dec 9, 2017 10:03 PM +00:00

Re: Movie MAME

This person's video reviews are cracking me up!

Original Air Date: December 3, 2012 We need a little Christmas, right this very minute...unfortunately, what we've got is Lucille Ball in a performance that ...
YouTube
--Anonymous
replies 235Dec 9, 2017 10:35 PM +00:00

Just reposting here something I posted in another thread where it was semi-appropriately on topic that Daryl Hickman was Robert Morse's first replacement in the original Broadway production of How to Succeed.

--Anonymous
replies 236Dec 10, 2017 1:13 AM +00:00

Okay, while that reviewer is snarking on Mame delightfully, she's also mispronouncing a lot of words. "Look ASK-ence"? "Speak-uh-zees"?

--Anonymous
replies 237Dec 10, 2017 1:55 AM +00:00

It's weird though that the whole scandal seems to have killed Crudup's career but not MLP or Danes

--Anonymous
replies 238Dec 10, 2017 2:20 AM +00:00

Mame’s title number was filmed “on location,” R49? It was filmed in California, not Georgia.

--Anonymous
replies 239Dec 10, 2017 2:43 AM +00:00
It's weird though that the whole scandal seems to have killed Crudup's career but not MLP or Danes

It's always the penised person's fault.

--Nan Michiganwomyn
replies 240Dec 10, 2017 3:22 AM +00:00

Killed Crudup's career? He's acted consistently over the years with great casts, directors and projects with literally no break. He's not a "star" and some of his choices are offbeat/indie stuff but he's a very successful character actor. He won a Tony in Stoppard at Lincoln Center, was fantastic in Harry Clarke off Bway earlier this year, co-starred with Annette Bening in 20th Century Women and with Natalie Portman in Jackie 2 years ago, Naomi Watts in Gypsy on Netflix this year (a flop, I know) and co stars with Julia Roberts in the upcoming movie adaptation of Where'd You Go, Bernadette (which is a great read) and sounds like a hit movie to me. He's also in an upcoming superhero movie with Gal Gadot.

He got a better career going for the long term than either ML Parker or Claire Danes.

--Anonymous
replies 241Dec 10, 2017 3:38 AM +00:00

I agree with R241. I don’t see how anyone could say Crudup doesn’t have a successful career.

--Anonymous
replies 242Dec 10, 2017 3:57 AM +00:00

MLP was awful in SNOW GEESE and HEDDA GABLER

--Anonymous
replies 243Dec 10, 2017 4:15 AM +00:00

I have two questions on Crudup: (a) can he sing (someone said he was in Gypsy) and (b) has he ever played gay?

--Anonymous
replies 244Dec 10, 2017 4:17 AM +00:00

Here asswipe R239, Mame’s title number was filmed on location meaning a plantation was not recreated on a soundstage. They actually went outside - on location. You’re obviously not in the biz since you know nothing of this. And I never said it was Georgia. And it’s the glorious highpoint of the picture,

--Anonymous
replies 245Dec 10, 2017 4:18 AM +00:00

MLP in the Roundabouts Hedda Gabler was the worst piece of shit I've ever seen presented on a stage. I saw an early preview and Parker looked manic at the curtain call. I'm sure she went ape shit on somebody after the curtain came down.

--Anonymous
replies 246Dec 10, 2017 4:25 AM +00:00
MLP in the Roundabouts Hedda Gabler was the worst piece of shit I've ever seen presented on a stage.

We just assume that if it's Roundabout that it's going to be the worst piece of shit. If I were a major star, I would avoid that place. They take talented stars and make them look like community theater actors. I don't think I've ever seen one enjoyable production come from Roundabout.

--Anonymous
replies 247Dec 10, 2017 4:27 AM +00:00

R247, not even the "Cabaret" revival?

--Anonymous
replies 248Dec 10, 2017 4:29 AM +00:00

But MLP was truly brilliant in How I Learned to Drive and Proof. She was also surprisingly funny in an Alan Ayckborn comedy off-Broadway in the late 1990s called Communicating Doors about time traveling. But all of her theater work since then has certainly been questionable.

Billy Crudup has never been concerned with being a star. He's only wanted to avoid type-casting and play varied roles in interesting projects. He's had many chances at big commercial success but not allowed them to guide his career.

I knew them both a little bit. He was always easy going and steady. She was quite the opposite, but far more loon than bitch.

--Anonymous
replies 249Dec 10, 2017 4:37 AM +00:00

Gypsy was a Netflix drama series with Naomi Watts and Billy Crudup, not the musical. It doesn't mean he can't sing but he certainly wasn't playing Tulsa.

--Anonymous
replies 250Dec 10, 2017 4:37 AM +00:00

I was at Shetler Studios yesterday and crazy Lori Petty came bursting out of one of the audition rooms apologizing to everyone for screaming. First off, no one heard her scream and, secondly, no one gave a shit. She seemed desperate to be recognized and it was sad.

--Anonymous
replies 251Dec 10, 2017 4:38 AM +00:00
[R247], not even the "Cabaret" revival?

The Cabaret was not a Roundabout original. It was based on the production done in London.

And I'm one of those that didn't like the reworked Cabaret. Berlin was not dark when Isherwood first went there. It was fun and gay. The Roundabout revival makes it sleazy and dark from the beginning. The Emcee should be mysterious not sleazy.

--Anonymous
replies 252Dec 10, 2017 4:41 AM +00:00

AGREED! Smart man R252!

--Anonymous
replies 253Dec 10, 2017 4:47 AM +00:00

R252. you need to learn some history. Berlin in the 20s was indeed sleazy and dark. The Donmar production of cabaret was based on the artwork of several German artists who recorded the decadent side of Weimar cabaret, I believe Otto Dix in particular. Hyper inflation destroyed social conventions and drove people to desperate measures in order to survive.

--Anonymous
replies 254Dec 10, 2017 5:11 AM +00:00

I liked the SutFo Anything Goes - wasn't that the Roundabout?

--Anonymous
replies 255Dec 10, 2017 5:18 AM +00:00
Berlin in the 20s was indeed sleazy and dark.

People tend to create environments different than their actual circumstances. For example, in the 1970s, New York City was a shithole. So fabulous clubs like Studio 54 were created so that people had a place to escape the ugliness. And there were several other clubs where people flocked to.

I'm sure that Isherwood went to gay clubs that were in basements and a bit seedy because that was the gay scene. But a club like the Kit Kat Club would have been a place to escape what was going on outside. I believe that if you go with the idea that Berlin was sleazy and dark, then the interior of the Kit Kat should be fabulous. Not a bunch of untalented whores with holes in their stockings.

--Anonymous
replies 256Dec 10, 2017 5:20 AM +00:00

Lori Petty is a good actress she claims to be str8, yet ALL points point elsewhere

--Anonymous
replies 257Dec 10, 2017 5:22 AM +00:00

The Roundabout version of "Cabaret" has only gotten worse in subsequent incarnations. I saw the national tour at the Kennedy Center recently, and it was so "dark" and "edgy," they should have handed out razor blades to the audience at the beginning. It came off like a parody of the original Roundabout production. I never appreciated Liza more than when this production's Sally had a hilarious nervous breakdown while singing "Cabaret." I think I exaggerate my memories sometimes, but I swear she ended the number by shrieking and running offstage, like Jeanette Nolan as Lady Macbeth in Orson Welles' movie.

--Anonymous
replies 258Dec 10, 2017 5:33 AM +00:00

Mame had money before the crash; don't forget her brother was wealthy too, and she must have inherited his estate.

--Mr Babcock
replies 259Dec 10, 2017 5:48 AM +00:00

R234, I think A-M has always shown a wonderful lightness in scenes, even going back to BBB. She certainly did well with Bob Hope in the numerous specials. She could also be one who suffered from the idea that beautiful, sexy women aren't allowed to be funny. She was in her 30s when the movie was done so she's closer to the mark than Lucy. And her husband could have been Beau.

I also think that a younger Mame could have brought something different to the project.

--Anonymous
replies 260Dec 10, 2017 5:52 AM +00:00
The Roundabout version of "Cabaret" has only gotten worse in subsequent incarnations. I saw the national tour at the Kennedy Center recently, and it was so "dark" and "edgy," they should have handed out razor blades to the audience at the beginning. It came off like a parody of the original Roundabout production. I never appreciated Liza more than when this production's Sally had a hilarious nervous breakdown while singing "Cabaret." I think I exaggerate my memories sometimes, but I swear she ended the number by shrieking and running offstage, like Jeanette Nolan as Lady Macbeth in Orson Welles' movie.

Yikes. I get that they want something for Sally other than a second-rate Liza impersonator, or even a first-rate one, but goddammit at least try and put a little bit of fun into it. Not in the cutesy-sugary forced happiness sense that makes the worst kids' movies and TV shows so difficult to watch, but something that makes it look like they actually understand the lyrics they are singing. The Kit Kat Klub (was that intentional to make their acronym KKK?) is trying to distract you from creeping Nazism while subtly enabling it. By taking any kind of joie de vie out of it altogether, this is what you get. It sounds like they're play every song as if it were "Tomorrow Belongs to Me."

--In here, life is beautiful
replies 261Dec 10, 2017 5:57 AM +00:00

Ladies please note r251 which is actual gossip not blathering theater queen opinions about long forgotten and-or misbegotten musicals

--Anonymous
replies 262Dec 10, 2017 5:57 AM +00:00

You call that gossip, R251? Both you and R262 can take misogyny, mis-sexing, ableism and condescension and shove it up your flahooley.

--Gay men are MEN
replies 263Dec 10, 2017 6:01 AM +00:00
Ladies please note [R251] which is actual gossip not blathering theater queen opinions about long forgotten and-or misbegotten musicals

It's only gossip if you actually know who the person is that is being gossiped about.

--Who The Hell Is Lori Petty?
replies 264Dec 10, 2017 6:05 AM +00:00

By taking any kind of joie de vie out of it altogether, this is what you get. It sounds like they're play every song as if it were "Tomorrow Belongs to Me."

That's exactly what it was like, R261. Utterly grim from the start, so this version had absolutely nowhere to go.

--Anonymous
replies 265Dec 10, 2017 6:06 AM +00:00

Hey, R245/douchebag, I’ve been in “the biz” for over 30 years. Do you actually think the title number from Mame was actually shot at a plantation? That’s hilarious. I don’t believe the outskirts of LA had plantations at any time in history. You so funny!

--R239
replies 266Dec 10, 2017 6:09 AM +00:00

No, r259, she did not inherit her brother's estate. That's kind of the whole point. Patrick inherited his father's estate, and was held in trust for him, with Babcock as the trustee in total control of every penny. The last thing Mame's brother would ever do is leave her money. I defer to somebody more familiar with the show, but didn't he say something in his will like the only reason she got custody of Patrick is because she's all the family he has left, and god help him? Or some sentiment like that? (Or am I imagining that?)

--Anonymous
replies 267Dec 10, 2017 6:09 AM +00:00

Mame and Bye Bye Birdie were both choreographed by Onna White and you can see the difference between Lucy and A-M. Lucy blends into the scenery where A-M commands the screen. Lucy's nicest moment in Mame comes at the end of the number when she sees Beau and rushes to him. If A-M had done Mame, it might not have seemed so old fashioned. Ironically, that has allowed Mame to become somewhat better with age because it seems like something from a bygone era. A-M's turn in Tommy now looks more dated than Mame.

--Anonymous
replies 268Dec 10, 2017 6:15 AM +00:00

ABC needs to show the infinitely superior Bedknobs and Broomsticks instead and show it uncut with limited commercial interruption. I'm tired of that film being vilified by the fat, self-loathing, pathetic losers who can't recognize what a poorly written, maudlin, white hetero-gentile supremacist piece of shit film that cunt with the umbrella is and what a shit ally the Widow Edwards is. Instead they go after Lansbury, a superior actress, singer, and gay ally, and project the flaws of the umbrella bitch film onto every other musical and hybrid of the era, while suppressing the far superior Song of the South and enabling sex offenders at the same time.

At least TCM is showing Pete's Dragon as part as this season's Disney block for those who want a Disney musical they can actually stomach. And if you don't want a stomach like Elliott's, then ditching sugar altogether is a step in the right direction.

Those three movies = L, G, and B

That bitch = The T that must be dropped

--They're all as underrated as that smarmy sappy bitch is overrated
replies 269Dec 10, 2017 6:19 AM +00:00
And her husband could have been Beau.

Because her husband was the original adult Patrick, right?

--Anonymous
replies 270Dec 10, 2017 6:28 AM +00:00

I believe s,o r270.

--Miss Pippa
replies 271Dec 10, 2017 6:32 AM +00:00

Looks like Disney's going to have a different kind of Br'er named Fox.

Seriously, even LEVI! was better than that fucking shit, and it makes me angry that the Sherman Brothers' worst work is their most popular; It's A Small World is to them as Leave Me Alone (Ruby Red Dress) is to Helen Reddy (except that the former made the latter that much more tolerable) and I never cried for that horrible birds song (unlike Baby Mine which is genuinely heartbreaking either in Dumbo or when sung by Bette Midler in Beaches around the time she actually became a mother, this is just saying "eat eat eat" and the constant refrain of "tuppence" sounds like "Trump/Pence"; happy now, deplorables?) but I cried for two of the songs at that show. It's their "oh my god what have we done show" and it's something they never would have gotten the opportunity to do if they had stayed at Disney studios after B&B (outside of a couple theme park songs). I hope it gets produced more and gets some kind of a recording.

And speaking of Bette Midler, with all the millennial veneration of Hocus Pocus for the drag queen-esque costumes, Bedknobs does more to depict witchcraft in a positive light, and Eglantine Price is the creation of an actual Englishwoman named Mary, not a self-hating Australian named Helen who hated the color red. And I take back what I said about that narcissistic Goff woman being almost as bad a mother as Joan Crawford. She was worse. Joan Crawford didn't break up a set of twins like she did. Joan Crawford was at Pepsi when that horrid piece of globalization propaganda was put up at the World's Fair before they moved it to Disneyland.

Taken from Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious, formely I love To Laugh. Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made f...
YouTube
--Anonymous
replies 272Dec 10, 2017 6:35 AM +00:00

Auntie Mame and Bedknobs and Broomsticks are hints of the movie LucyMAME could have been with a more competent lead. Even though it's shorter than either of them it feels longer.

--Anonymous
replies 273Dec 10, 2017 6:36 AM +00:00

What do you get when you guzzle down sweets,

Eating as much as an elephant eats?

--At least Willy Wonka was honest about it
replies 274Dec 10, 2017 6:43 AM +00:00

The darker and more outrageous the Kit Kat Klub becomes in each incarnation of Cabaret, the further I think the show gets from the authors' intention. Cabaret is set in Berlin in 1929-1930, three years before Hilter's chancellorship. It's about the climate as National Socialism was going from a lunatic fringe to mainstream, while the climate was starting to shift around German-born Jews like Herr Schultz. In the Prince production, there was a sort of tacky slickness to "Wilkommen," and the growing horror and dread begins to seep in, as you got to things like the "Tomorrow Belongs to Me" reprise at the party at the end of Act One, the kick line that turns into a goosestep at the top of Act Two, and the ironic ending of "If You Could See Her." You can see a civilized society going to seed in that original version of Cabaret, and I think, given what's happening in the US at this time, the lessons of the show as originally written remain timeless.

It had its virtues, but I always felt the Roundabout version starts dark and decadent from the outset, with its bruised and track marked Emcee and ensemble, and just keeps wallowing further, to the point like it just feels like another time, place and world entirely. If the mood is more sex club than nightclub, I don't know that the show's themes of ignorance, apathy, nationalism of ordinary German citizenry, etc., leading to the rise of National Socialism quite play off. And I saw more than one audience laugh at the Holocaust coda of the Roundabout production, which made me question if any of the production's innovations had truly served the material at all. It's a great and audacious show, no matter what, but I don't think the Mendes/Marshall version is presenting quite the same vision that is present in both the Prince original and in Fosse's radically different but still thematically similar film.

--Anonymous
replies 275Dec 10, 2017 6:45 AM +00:00

I LOVE THIS MAN^ R275

DONT GO NOWHERE

--Anonymous
replies 276Dec 10, 2017 6:50 AM +00:00

Even I was happier than the Roundabout production!

--Elsie's corpse
replies 277Dec 10, 2017 6:51 AM +00:00

R262 Okay, gossip wise: Maybe everyone knows this, but in the days of PRELUDE TO A KISS (and I would imagine right up to the present) Mary Louise Parker was extremely anorexic. I mean, to the point where the staff and producers were terrified she was going to miss shows. (I don't know if she actually did.) I have so little patience for that self-indulgent disease...just eat a f-ing sandwich and get over your selfcentered, self-invented problem. Then open your eyes and take in the world around you. Loser.

--Anonymous
replies 278Dec 10, 2017 7:10 AM +00:00

Then just WAIT for Molly Brown to sail in to the Roundabout next year

--JESUS CHRIST!
replies 279Dec 10, 2017 7:11 AM +00:00

It doesn't matter, r254. What matters is the dramatic arc...and the Mendes production started where it should have ended and had no place to go. You're supposed to get sucked into vortex imperceptibly, not have it thrust in your face from the get-go.

Nothing will ever supersede the original Prince production, not even the movie, masterful as it is.

--Anonymous
replies 280Dec 10, 2017 7:24 AM +00:00
You can see a civilized society going to seed in that original version of Cabaret, and I think, given what's happening in the US at this time, the lessons of the show as originally written remain timeless.

That's a very depressing thought, to be honest.

And the same people are being targeted as before.

--Anonymous
replies 281Dec 10, 2017 7:27 AM +00:00

The original conception of Cabaret is very much a post-war American view of things--and completely wrong historically. America viewed non-conformism as a threat to societal order. It makes it appear that the same impulse that gave rise to the cabarets gave rise to the Nazis. The artists in the Cabarets were fighting against the Nazi ideology and to present them as somehow part of the same movement is to blame the victim.

Mendes version is a bit heavy handed, but it is more historically accurate and does not slander the people who resisted the Nazi by presenting them as complicit.

--Anonymous
replies 282Dec 10, 2017 7:38 AM +00:00

You guys miss the point of the Kit Kat Klub. First , your arguements are historically inaccurate. A great deal has been written about Weimar Germany and, as I wrote earlier, familiarize yourself with the artists of the time who used the cabaret scene as inspiration.

Second, the journey is taken by Cliff and Sally, the innocent outsiders, not the club. The club is sleazy. The MC makes it clear with the "every one a virgin" line. Nearly every girl there is a cheap whore (and a few of the men as well). This wasn't the sort of cabaret where Marlene Dietrich performed, or the political satire of Mischa Spoliansky was sung. Decadence such as the Kit Kat Klub was one of the reasons the Nazis came to power.

--Anonymous
replies 283Dec 10, 2017 7:41 AM +00:00

The very best Sally Bowles--- Jill Haworth in the original.

--Gay theatre Queend elder
replies 284Dec 10, 2017 7:45 AM +00:00

I agree with the people posting here who think the Mendes-Marshall CABARET is too dark, too heavy-handed, and too hyper sexual from the beginning, but that version has become so successful that in a way it seems pointless to argue against it. Obviously a lot of audiences respond to that kind of sensationalism, and I guess they buy into that interpretation of the Kit Kat Klub.

--Anonymous
replies 285Dec 10, 2017 8:17 AM +00:00

Is it really Sally's journey? Cliff I could see. He's a witness and a way in for the audience, at least an American audience. I always see her line about "It's politics, and what does that have to do with us?" (not sure if I have that right) as her key statement, as well as Cliff's final lines about "it was the end of the world..." etc. I get swept up more by what is happening in the Schneider/Schultz relationship, and Schultz's line about "I understand them. For I am German" line, since it's the sentiment of so many German Jews who ignored all of the warning signs. I think part of what makes the Prince approach more interesting to me is that at a certain point, the Kit Kat Klub numbers just started to appear in a type of limbo, instead of the literalness of everything being the Kit Kat Klub in the Mendes/Marshall version.

I come from German/Austrian parents and grandparents, so I can talk about this shit all day. And Cabaret just holds endless fascination for me. That it was first produced 20 years after WWII is incredible enough. That Kander & Ebb wrote the show that they did after the general floppiness of Flora the Red Menace is also astounding to me. And good as his work is on She Loves Me, Masteroff's book for Cabaret is on another level. I know Cabaret is recognized as one of the greats, but to me, it's as critical a show in the development of musical theatre as other milestones like Show Boat, Oklahoma! and the rest.

Now, back to Follies...

--Anonymous
replies 286Dec 10, 2017 8:46 AM +00:00
Now, back to Follies...

Follies where the girls were nude dancers. Hmmm, Sally's "Losing My Mind" could be sung while she is stripping for the male patrons. And Phyllis' "Lucy and Jessie" takes on a whole new meaning if nobody knows that Phyllis is actually working in a strip club.

And oh, what I could do with In Buddy's Eyes!!

--Sam Mendes
replies 287Dec 10, 2017 8:51 AM +00:00

I actually think Arthur Laurents was probably right to stifle Mendes during his GYPSY. Who even knows what we would have gotten if he'd had full creative control. I'm sure we would have had actual nude strippers (maybe not so bad.) I certainly remember something about how he wanted "Rose's Turn" to be uglier and have Bernadette with mascara running down her face by the end of it. Actually, that might have worked. What we ended up getting was...well, I still don't know what it was, but it managed to make the show fairly boring.

--Anonymous
replies 288Dec 10, 2017 9:15 AM +00:00

I'm guessing Laurents wasn't so much against Mendes making GYPSY darker and grittier as he was against anyone other than himself directing the show. There sure were plenty of dark and gritty (and stupid) ideas in Laurents' last revival of WEST SIDE STORY.

--Anonymous
replies 289Dec 10, 2017 9:26 AM +00:00

R286, the musical is about Sally' journey, as well as Cliff's . The problem is that the movie muddles it quite a bit. Casting Liza Minnelli didn't help. In the musical, Sally sings "Don't Tell Momma" which is a naughty, but still rather naif song. Sally starts as a rebellious school girl who gets in over her head. (And, yes, the song was originally intended as Sally singing about Sally. I asked Kander about that.) With Mein Herr, Sally starts as a worldly and experienced narcissist. It throws the story arc off. I hated the oversized chair and lollypop in the Donmar production, but they at least were an attempt to restore some of Sally's naivety. (Note: I have only seen the Donmar production. I friend was screwed our of doing the costumes for the Roundabout transfer and I refuse to see it in any form.) Both Sally and Cliff are foreigners who get in over their heads. Cliff manages to escape, Sally...?

R286, my grandparents were German as well. My material grandfather died in Dachau. One of the protestants who tried to something about the Nazis and have been written out of history.

--Anonymous
replies 290Dec 10, 2017 9:45 AM +00:00
The club is sleazy.

Not to Christopher Isherwood it wasn’t. It was based on his stories, after all, he was the real “Cliff,” and he’s the one who lived it.

--Anonymous
replies 291Dec 10, 2017 11:35 AM +00:00
R288 have Bernadette with mascara running down her face by the end of it.

Wouldn't that be a given in any BP performance, tho. That dame CANNOT stop crying!!

It's annoying, self indulgent, and too nakedly manipulative.

--Had Enough
replies 292Dec 10, 2017 11:35 AM +00:00

If the Mendes version was such an abomination compaed to the original, why didn't K&E put a stop to it?

--Anonymous
replies 293Dec 10, 2017 11:56 AM +00:00

R291, the musical is quite different from both Isherwood's book and the play, I am a Camera. The Kit Kat Klub (named after an English political club, for the person who asked) is an amalgamation of several Berlin clubs including Lady Windemere's (where the historic "Sally" Jean Ross sang) and the Eldorado, a transvestite bar, among others. Isherwood describes them more completely in his bio.

--Anonymous
replies 294Dec 10, 2017 12:09 PM +00:00

The very best [FILL IN ROLE] was [WHOEVER HAPPENED TO PLAY IT FIRST] ... there, have we summed up the internet?

--Anonymous
replies 295Dec 10, 2017 12:18 PM +00:00

Do you believe that a great classic musical can withstand directorial concepts or do you think that if these revisals are successful, future generations will forget and lose sight of the creators original intentions?

Sondheim seems to be ok with any sort of directorial tinkering with his own work (and I think he honestly is ok, it's not just about receiving royalties), but he was mightily pissed by Diane Paulus' abridged revision of Porgy and Bess.

--Anonymous
replies 296Dec 10, 2017 12:25 PM +00:00

R290, so you managed to miss all 2,377 performances of the first transfer and 388 of its revival...?

--Anonymous
replies 297Dec 10, 2017 12:45 PM +00:00

People can hate on the Mendes-Marshall CABARET all they want, but it is iconic and rightly so for the dark depths it plumbed. And, it went deep in its darkness...

Plus, it ran three times longer than every other revival combined, so a lot of people saw it. It may be as legendary as the film, actually.

At least for anyone under 70.

Few who saw the finale of the revival cannot say it was a powerful coup de theatre on the level of the Golden Age. A true masterstroke of direction/concept.

--Ernst
replies 298Dec 10, 2017 3:44 PM +00:00

I hated that electrocution ending of the Mendes version. The whole thing was awful. Now, I saw it with Matt McGrath and Gina Gershwin, neither of whom was very good.

A few months later I saw the tour in LA with Norbert Leo Butz and Joeley Fisher, both of whom were outstanding. That production almost made a case for itself.

--Anonymous
replies 299Dec 10, 2017 4:40 PM +00:00

Betty Lynn is moving back to NYC!!!! Let's hope she does some theatre.

Page Six has just shared that stage legend Betty Buckley is leaving her Texas home in favor of a return to New York City. The actress currently lives on a 35-acre ranch with a slew of dogs, cats, horses, and one parrot.
BroadwayWorld.com
--Anonymous
replies 300Dec 10, 2017 4:54 PM +00:00
Betty Lynn is moving back to NYC!!!!

We don't want her.

--Citizens of NYC!!!!
replies 301Dec 10, 2017 5:04 PM +00:00

R299 ? It was a gas chamber.

Get it?

(Maybe not.)

--Ernst
replies 302Dec 10, 2017 5:07 PM +00:00
Few who saw the finale of the revival cannot say it was a powerful coup de theatre on the level of the Golden Age. A true masterstroke of direction/concept.

I am one of the "few." That image was appalling, and not in a good way. Theater porn.

--Anonymous
replies 303Dec 10, 2017 6:25 PM +00:00

Spoiler wanted. Never saw this.

What happened at the end that made it a master stroke?

It turns out the whole thing is the emcee's dream as he's being electrocuted in a gas chamber?

--Anonymous
replies 304Dec 10, 2017 6:49 PM +00:00
What happened at the end that made it a master stroke?

Spoiler alert. The final image of the Emcee is him in a concentration camp prisoner uniform.

--Anonymous
replies 305Dec 10, 2017 7:02 PM +00:00

I thought it was the Emcee against one of thos electrified fences (as in Bent) that killed them if they touched it. I thought him putting his arms up in the crucifixion pose was stupid.

--Anonymous
replies 306Dec 10, 2017 7:37 PM +00:00

So the Emcee was a self-loathing Jew who kissed up to the Nazis and still ended up in the camps? Was that basically the takeaway from his character? Or perhaps we never really know because he was so mysterious?

--Anonymous
replies 307Dec 10, 2017 7:55 PM +00:00

He would have wound up in the camps for being homosexual, too. At the end he has a pink triangle on his uniform, although I think he may also have had a Star of David. In any event, it was totally unnecessary. The original ending, with the Emcee going on with the show, was scarier. The Mendes one hits you over the head.

--Anonymous
replies 308Dec 10, 2017 8:05 PM +00:00

For those that didn't see it... apart from the 100,000+ people who did, apparently...

The Emcee appears in Holocaust garb, with pink heart and star of David, all of the sets fly out (having been there behind the action all the show) and it becomes a blinding white room, filling with smoke. He sings the last lines of "Wilkommen" reprise, makes Hitler salute and breathes in as the stage fills with smoke and stobes.

There was no electrocution. I feel like most people commenting didn't even see it (you only had 25 years). It ran forever. I saw it four times in 10 years. Jeez.

--Ernst
replies 309Dec 10, 2017 9:20 PM +00:00

....pink heart, R309?

--Anonymous
replies 310Dec 10, 2017 9:25 PM +00:00

To add to R306 , the crucifixion imagery was dependent on the performer, I believe. Could be wrong.

I remember Raul Esparza, Norbert Leo Butz and Matt McGrath doing it, but I do not think Cumming did that staging. I don't think NPH did it either.

Could be wrong.

Oh, and, pardon me: pink triangle (which is also a heart shape if we're being technical), R309 (mary!)

--Ernst
replies 311Dec 10, 2017 9:28 PM +00:00

R309, didn't they have any orange stars, yellow moons, or green clovers...?

--Anonymous
replies 312Dec 10, 2017 9:31 PM +00:00

That's for the 2020 revival.

Starring Ariana Grande and Garrett Clayton.

--Erns... eh, I mean, Sam Mendes
replies 313Dec 10, 2017 9:33 PM +00:00

BTW here is the original Mendes (without Marshall) ending they did in the UK before Broadway... at Studio 54 the set flew out and it was all white, with smoke, but here Cumming does the same thing, in Holocaust garb, with crucifixion pose. It was always between a bow and the full crucifixion pose from my memory. Whatever you want. It is chilling, either way.

--Ernst
replies 314Dec 10, 2017 9:40 PM +00:00

PS Here is Cumming with Emma Stone in the 2014 revival.

Clicky playlist soon! Note - this was blocked in some countries, so I had to remove Tomorrow Belongs To Me.
YouTube
--Ernst
replies 315Dec 10, 2017 9:47 PM +00:00
pink triangle (which is also a heart shape if we're being technical)

In what world is a pink triangle the same as a heart shape?

flagspot.net
--Anonymous
replies 316Dec 11, 2017 12:56 AM +00:00

Emma Stone's pretty good as Sally Bowles.

--Anonymous
replies 317Dec 11, 2017 1:21 AM +00:00

I saw the original production of Cabaret, twice, the first night with understudies Signe Hasso and Penny Fuller, and the second night with Lotte Lenya and Jill Haworth.

I preferred Haworth’s Sally; she had a fascinating edge to her, as if she knew she was an otherwise conventional person at heart, but yet was always fighting it, trying to be a daring Bohemian, but knowing it was all a sham. And, unlike most all the other actresses in the role, she actually performed it as a fourth rate performer, which is what Sally Bowles is supposed to be.

Minnelli in the movie always struck me as just too much a star for the role, which made her numbers unreal. Either we accept that the songs she does are set in some surreal ether, or we assume everyone watching her is an idiot, because a performer that good would have risen to better things long ago.

And, though I found the subplot with Jewish grocer Schultz sort of gratuitous, Prince was able to twist the character’s Jewish humor into a knot with “If You Could See Her” in Act II. In the movie, Fosse reverted to the original play, I Am a Camera, to substitute the Natalie Landauer subplot, which I actually found more gratuitous, because it wasn’t musical at all. Fosse’s movie seems more a documentary of cultural episodes, interspersed with musical commentary.

The original show was much more insidious, with the Nazi miasma only gradually leaking out. I’ve seen only videos of the Mendes production, but it strikes me as more melodramatic. In the original, Emcee Grey took a deep bow, then quickly left, leaving that distorted mirror to reflect our smug selves.

--Anonymous
replies 318Dec 11, 2017 3:17 AM +00:00

I saw the original when I was 15. The ending blew me away and I left shaking. It has stayed with me all these years. All the vignettes of the various people heading into a future that the audience knows about, but the character are blithely unaware of, was chilling. The revival's ending, I thought, was overkill. If the MC ends up in a camp, he was a Nazi anyway, so who cares?

--Lenya, irreplaceable...
replies 319Dec 11, 2017 4:08 AM +00:00

Wasn't there a non-Mendes London production where the Emcee and the Kit Kat Klub boys and girls were naked, hovering around a gas pipe at the end? I think Anna Maxwell Martin was Sally.

--Anonymous
replies 320Dec 11, 2017 4:13 AM +00:00

. "Decadence such as the Kit Kat Klub was one of the reasons the Nazis came to power. "

R283 or anyone, could you explain this?

I'm a teenager. But seriously I'm very curious why!

--Anonymous
replies 321Dec 11, 2017 4:17 AM +00:00

So the emcee is gay and a jew and in a final crucifixion pose? That makes no sense and is amateurish as well.

Cats ran for decades and I never had the slightest desire to see it.

--Anonymous
replies 322Dec 11, 2017 4:20 AM +00:00
. "Decadence such as the Kit Kat Klub was one of the reasons the Nazis came to power. "

I've heard some religious Jews talk about this and they put a Sodom & Gomorrah spin on it. They say the morals and fabric of society had degenerated so much that people were powerless over the rise of Hitler. But that is a common theme in the Hebrew canon, so I don't know whether that's the real reason or not.

--Anonymous
replies 323Dec 11, 2017 4:22 AM +00:00

I'm one who thought the Mendes ending was manipulative. You're hitting me over the head with the fact that the rise of Hitler and the Holocaust were horrible and affected everyone? No shit, Sherlock.

--Anonymous
replies 324Dec 11, 2017 4:26 AM +00:00

I didn't like the film of Cabaret at all. Minnelli is annoying, working too hard to be a powerhouse and charmless to me and Fosse in the 70s became god awful and mannered. Can't stand his stuff but in the 50s and 60s he was quite wonderful.

I like the obc very much and wish I could have seen the original production. I love the opening with Ron Field's staging from the Tony's('67?) Also I like Haworth a lot.

--Anonymous
replies 325Dec 11, 2017 4:29 AM +00:00

How do you get that the MC is a Nazi?

The ending of Mendes production reminds us that the people who performed in the Cabaret were the Nazi's targets and were on borrowed time. I never got that in the original production and film where you could believe that the Nazi's might like the cabaret.

--Anonymous
replies 326Dec 11, 2017 4:31 AM +00:00
Minnelli in the movie always struck me as just too much a star for the role, which made her numbers unreal. Either we accept that the songs she does are set in some surreal ether, or we assume everyone watching her is an idiot, because a performer that good would have risen to better things long ago.

That's not necessarily true in every case. Lots of talented people toil in obscurity for whatever reason while people less talented than they get ahead. Heterosexual men feel uncomfortable with women like Sally who speak off the cuff (even in a nice way) so they try to keep them down any way they can. One of Liza's best non-singing scenes in the movie is the dinner scene where Sally uses the word "screwing," then tries to explain what that means to Natalia.

--Anonymous
replies 327Dec 11, 2017 4:31 AM +00:00
How do you get that the MC is a Nazi?

We don't. When he ends "If You Could See Her" by comparing the gorilla to a Jew, that shows that all their supposed sexual liberation is just a façade for their antisemitism. But they treat it as a joke. Contrast it to the Nazis who make it a way of life. They're honest about who they hate and what they want to do to the people they hate. The MC, and by proxy the Klub, are enablers, even though Jews as a whole are more tolerant of this than Nazis.

--That's why it's cathartic when the Nazis get beat up in BEDKNOBS & BROOMSTICKS
replies 328Dec 11, 2017 4:34 AM +00:00
That's why it's cathartic when the Nazis get beat up in BEDKNOBS & BROOMSTICKS

Yeah, but Mary Poppins doesn't even have Nazis

--One of the reasons it is a vastly superior film.
replies 329Dec 11, 2017 4:35 AM +00:00

"They say the morals and fabric of society had degenerated so much that people were powerless over the rise of Hitler."

Do you mean "morals" or sexuality? And can someone say exactly what it was morally or sexually that occurred to leave Germany open to this besides what we already have heard?

--Anonymous
replies 330Dec 11, 2017 4:54 AM +00:00

R328, I think you miss the point entirely. The absurdity of saying an ape looks like a jew is a dig at the absurdity of antisemitism.

An actual antisemite would not create a number that makes antisemitism look ridiculous.

And historically, I doubt any pro-Nazi could have had a career in the cabarets. It would be like a Trump supporter trying to get a job on SNL.

--Anonymous
replies 331Dec 11, 2017 4:56 AM +00:00

but wasnt the point that they were infiltrating and so were being played to? At least that was the end of the movie.

--Anonymous
replies 332Dec 11, 2017 5:00 AM +00:00

DL right now.

i.imgur.com
--Anonymous
replies 333Dec 11, 2017 5:09 AM +00:00
It would be like a Trump supporter trying to get a job on SNL.

They didn't need to; they enabled another sex offender before anyone outside of NYC ever heard of Trump, whom another NBC show has already enabled.

--Anonymous
replies 334Dec 11, 2017 5:09 AM +00:00

R333: Honestly I think Kander & Ebb's output is more creatively satisfying. It makes you actually want to watch it. Sondheim is too eat-your-vegetablesy, something you feel obligated to like because all your other peers do. I watched both Into the Woods with Bernadette Peters and Company with Raul Esparza and found them both a bit of a letdown.

--Anonymous
replies 335Dec 11, 2017 5:12 AM +00:00

Yes R320. Mr. Kander flew to Londonto see it. He hated it.And there was that nude scene finale as you described

--Anonymous
replies 336Dec 11, 2017 5:33 AM +00:00

r335 I don't think the John Doyle production with Esparza is a great way to get to know Company. You miss the Tunick orchestrations (the backup singers!), for one thing, and every actor plays it the same way, like they're throwing out one-liners in a bad sitcom. As for Into the Woods, well, I hope at least you enjoyed Act 1.

--Anonymous
replies 337Dec 11, 2017 5:36 AM +00:00

I was awake for act one so obviously I enjoyed that more.

--Anonymous
replies 338Dec 11, 2017 5:37 AM +00:00

Sondheim never channeled enough of his sexuality into his works and much suffers because of that. But whats great is GREAT! Into the woods wasnt THAT! And most of his shows were on an adolescent level of human emotion. As,with his 30 year old lover,it turns out so is he. But I LOVES me some Sondeim.

--I just forget sometimes how to spell his name.
replies 339Dec 11, 2017 5:45 AM +00:00

I agree that Sally can be a powerhouse performer, but too fucking neurotic to take her career beyond the KKC.

--Anonymous
replies 340Dec 11, 2017 5:50 AM +00:00
When he ends "If You Could See Her" by comparing the gorilla to a Jew, that shows that all their supposed sexual liberation is just a façade for their antisemitism.

I think that moment can be interpreted in different ways. It could be meant to indicate that the MC himself is not Jewish, but not necessarily. However you interpret it, I think it's just supposed to represent the kind of political "humor" that would be done in a cabaret at that time.

--Anonymous
replies 341Dec 11, 2017 5:55 AM +00:00

r339 Yeah, Company could have been more interesting if it involved a Bobby who contemplated issues not only of marriage and commitment but also of sexuality. What we got in terms of the latter was that awkward conversation with Peter (?) that came out of nowhere and went nowhere. And wasn't that just tacked on in some revival or other, I could be wrong.

Or, having first come across Company in the early 90's, maybe I'm just looking for too much from a show written in the 70's. Different times, different possibilities.

An actual antisemite would not create a number that makes antisemitism look ridiculous.

Wouldn't this be more characteristic of the current brand of anti-Semitism? I'm thinking the Richard Spencer type of well-dressed white supremacism. (Yeah, I know, well-dressed is relative. That vest is hideous.) I imagine anti-Semitism in the 30's was far more overt, and a number that portrays a Jew as a gorilla might not have been thought ridiculous.

--Anonymous
replies 342Dec 11, 2017 6:02 AM +00:00
Yeah, Company could have been more interesting if it involved a Bobby who contemplated issues not only of marriage and commitment but also of sexuality. What we got in terms of the latter was that awkward conversation with Peter (?) that came out of nowhere and went nowhere. And wasn't that just tacked on in some revival or other, I could be wrong.

The whole "Poor Baby' /"Tick Tock" sequence, including the long scene with April, is about sexuality. Heterosexuality. Bobby is not supposed to be gay or even "questioning." That's not the point of the show.

--Anonymous
replies 343Dec 11, 2017 6:26 AM +00:00

EXACTLY R342--and what we got was Barcelona where he's finally being sexual-or had been. And no real romance in Into the Woods. And dont tell me it was a fairytale for kids: A bakers wife and a prince coming out of a roll in the hay. Woods are about sex. Not here! And just nudity in the first minutes of Passion as if its all he could muster? And Kiss Me from Sweeney is a joke. Where did he ever let it rip?

--Anonymous
replies 344Dec 11, 2017 6:26 AM +00:00

WRONG R343-

Poor Baby/fuckin Tick Tock sequence wasnt about "sexuality" It was about HAVING SEX Where the fuck were the leveLs in THAT?

--STUNTED
replies 345Dec 11, 2017 6:29 AM +00:00

What does the word "sexuality" mean to you, R345?

--Anonymous
replies 346Dec 11, 2017 6:31 AM +00:00

r343 I realize that it isn't the point of the show. I'm just addressing r339's point that there isn't enough of Sondheim's sexuality in his shows. Just a case of woulda been, coulda been: if he had been out his whole adult life, how different would his shows have been? There is, of course, no sure answer but one could always wonder.

r344 Some would say Passion sounded like one long fart, interrupted by an intermission. (I'm not one of them!)

--Anonymous
replies 347Dec 11, 2017 6:34 AM +00:00

Most antisemites aren't smart enough for that kind of nuance despite the protests to the contrary, R342.

--Anonymous
replies 348Dec 11, 2017 6:35 AM +00:00

Nazis routinely compared Jews to apes. If You Could See Her isn't a spoof of Nazism. It's Nazism itself.

Also, the Emcee is on stage during the first singing of the show's Nazi anthem, Tomorrow Belongs To Me. He's quite happy to listen to it, and after it he's smiling at the audience. "Leering" is the word in the script.

--Anonymous
replies 349Dec 11, 2017 6:48 AM +00:00

I was there first preview and to me it was R347 albeit with some of Sondheim best music unfortunately.

And as for sexuality R346- sexuality to me is about 2 separate forces coming together to create a 3rd force - Now that can be a baby or just an orgasm- or a work of art that energizes and invigorates from your core. Its the electricity behind everything. And although invigoration takes many forms,this is one form he does not seem able to take. Although I do loves me some Merrily overture to get me goin!

"Electricity" in Billy Elliot The Musical Live.
YouTube
--LIGHT THE LITES!
replies 350Dec 11, 2017 6:52 AM +00:00

It's a pastiche, not a spoof. Mel Brooks does spoofs.

--Anonymous
replies 351Dec 11, 2017 6:53 AM +00:00

by the way, this kid is amazing in this---

"Electricity" in Billy Elliot The Musical Live.
YouTube
--Anonymous
replies 352Dec 11, 2017 6:54 AM +00:00
I realize that it isn't the point of the show. I'm just addressing [R339]'s point that there isn't enough of Sondheim's sexuality in his shows.

Thanks. I don't agree that Sondheim's shows are in any way lacking because "there isn't enough of his sexuality in them." I'm not even sure what that means.

Nazis routinely compared Jews to apes. If You Could See Her isn't a spoof of Nazism. It's Nazism itself. Also, the Emcee is on stage during the first singing of the show's Nazi anthem, Tomorrow Belongs To Me. He's quite happy to listen to it, and after it he's smiling at the audience. "Leering" is the word in the script.

Right, and if you follow that interpretation, the Emcee could end up in a concentration camp anyway -- not because he's Jewish, but because he's gay. I just don't think we need to SEE him end up in concentration camp and be electrocuted on stage.

--Anonymous
replies 353Dec 11, 2017 6:56 AM +00:00
Thanks. I don't agree that Sondheim's shows are in any way lacking because "there isn't enough of his sexuality in them." I'm not even sure what that means.

It means they're not gay enough despite Sondheim actually being gay.

--Anonymous
replies 354Dec 11, 2017 6:58 AM +00:00

Exactly how much of "Sondheim's sexuality" do you really want to see?! I’m pretty sure the NYFD fire safety laws prohibit snuffing out cigarettes on a chorus boy's bare ass onstage.

--Anonymous
replies 355Dec 11, 2017 7:17 AM +00:00

" I don't agree that Sondheim's shows are in any way lacking because "there isn't enough of his sexuality in them." I'm not even sure what that means."

If youre not sure what that means,as you said, then how can you agree or NOT?

And R354 I am not gay. I am a human sexual being who misses that in the works of one of my favorite composers though I understand the times in which he wrote.

What I said was much suffers because of that in that much more of an inner nature could have been written as he did while in love writing "Loving You" -and No One's Ever Loved You from Passion.

As much as I love him, I feel much more could have been expressed and more deeply/sensuously had he lived that way himself.

But then maybe he would have been distracted.

I guess his German side won out ;)

And for us, that might have been to our benefit.

--Anonymous
replies 356Dec 11, 2017 7:18 AM +00:00

r356 You beat me to it on No One Has Ever Loved Me. I might have mentioned it on these threads before. To my ears, that short passage is one of the richest, most beautiful, most heartfelt in Sondheim's entire body of work.

--Anonymous
replies 357Dec 11, 2017 7:23 AM +00:00

right?

And this, his anthem to being Gay

"Loving You" from Sondheim's "Passion." Donna Murphy. I do NOT own the copyright on this work.
YouTube
--And Sondy, dont tell me it isnt
replies 358Dec 11, 2017 7:29 AM +00:00

and notice his lyrics to those 2 songs arent his best, but you can tell he's writing from an experience deep and dear to him.

As deep as sex goes.

--Anonymous
replies 359Dec 11, 2017 7:31 AM +00:00

Sondheim on love & sex in Bounce

Provided to YouTube by Warner Music Group ACT I: The Best Thing That Ever Has Happened · Stephen Sondheim Bounce ? 2004 Nonesuch Records Orchestra: The Kenne...
YouTube
--Anonymous
replies 360Dec 11, 2017 7:36 AM +00:00

Sondheim on sexual preference......

From the 1992 special 'Lavishly Mounted'. Julia McKenzie sings Stephen Sondheim's 'The Boy From...', a parody of The Girl From Ipanema. Kit and The Widow hav...
YouTube
--and denial
replies 361Dec 11, 2017 7:46 AM +00:00

Boy, that Cliff in the Donmar Cabaret clip is one terrible actor.

--Anonymous
replies 362Dec 11, 2017 8:34 AM +00:00
That's not necessarily true in every case. Lots of talented people toil in obscurity for whatever reason while people less talented than they get ahead.

How do you think I won 6 Tonys?

--Audra, waiting in line for extra guac.
replies 363Dec 11, 2017 9:18 AM +00:00

Or ME?

--P&PAUL
replies 364Dec 11, 2017 9:40 AM +00:00

Company is about neither marriage nor relationships, but, like the film Network from the same era, the difficulty and need to "connect" in a depersonalized, dehumanized society. That is Sondheim's great theme, expressed in songs like Being Alive, Anyone Can Whistle, Take Me To The World, With So Little To Be Sure Of, etc., etc.

--Anonymous
replies 365Dec 11, 2017 10:39 AM +00:00

Is BDSM inherently depersonalized and dehumanized?

--Anonymous
replies 366Dec 11, 2017 10:46 AM +00:00
Some would say Passion sounded like one long fart, interrupted by an intermission.

There wasn't an intermission.

--sigh
replies 367Dec 11, 2017 10:51 AM +00:00

[R347] Some would say Passion sounded like one long fart, interrupted by an intermission. (I'm not one of them!)

You're completely off base here. Passion had no intermission!

--Anonymous
replies 368Dec 11, 2017 11:05 AM +00:00

It had one during some of the previews because I left during it.

--Anonymous
replies 369Dec 11, 2017 11:14 AM +00:00

I believe R369 is correct. I seem to remember them cutting the intermission during previews.

--Anonymous
replies 370Dec 11, 2017 11:18 AM +00:00

r368 I stand corrected. I just assumed no one could fart for an hour and a half straight.

--Anonymous
replies 371Dec 11, 2017 11:22 AM +00:00

Clearly you are under 40.

--Anonymous
replies 372Dec 11, 2017 11:24 AM +00:00

Passion was one of the worst pieces of dreck ever put on a stage. The only thing worse is "Bounce."

--Anonymous
replies 373Dec 11, 2017 11:38 AM +00:00

Anna Maxwell Martin as Sally Bowles. It was in 2006.

i.telegraph.co.uk
--Anonymous
replies 374Dec 11, 2017 11:38 AM +00:00

You said R365---

"Company is about neither marriage nor relationships, but, like the film Network from the same era, the difficulty and need to "connect" in a depersonalized, dehumanized society."

well , yes and no

because at the core-like where SEX happens-depersonalization ends and true connection begins- if but for a second.

Prolonging that second or making a song about it or god willing a show is not something Sondheim can do. Nor his writers.

And unfortunately for me,his shows grow old and somewhat weary because of it.

www.broadwayworld.com
--As I fear he himself has as well.
replies 375Dec 11, 2017 11:39 AM +00:00

and I agree R373-with the exception of those 2 great songs.

And Passion showed you where he lived emotionally to think that would play to an audience as anything but her shallow yet dangerous stalking and obsession.

Would SHE have loved HIM like that if he hadnt LOOKED like that?

So she sings "we hear music-they hear drums-youre like me"... we both like books.

YUP!

And then his great moment: "No ones ever loved me as deeply as you. No ones ever loved me like you have" ARE WE SUPPOSED TO CARE about how much someone now loves HIM so deeply?? And that Sondheim did NOT see how shallow this was and WOULD be to an audience ????

Did our maestro write this in a mirror?

And then turn to US calling us "afraid of such emotion"

Sondheim is a genius with a teenagers eros that never grew up.

Maybe his husband will change that for his next piece for the public AT The Public.

--not expecting much--but would love to be surprised!-
replies 376Dec 11, 2017 12:00 PM +00:00

r372 I spat out my soup, you cruel man.

r373 So I guess you liked Road Show better than Passion.

r376 Given the source material? I dunno.

--R371
replies 377Dec 11, 2017 12:27 PM +00:00

Road Show/Bounce/Wise Guys - whatever its incarnation, it was a piece of shit.

--Anonymous
replies 378Dec 11, 2017 1:02 PM +00:00

When I saw "Passion", people made their own intermission by walking out during the show. I do recall a big laugh Donna Murphy got when she said something like "I'm a bit hard for some people to take". Maybe some pastiche numbers would have helped, too?

--Anonymous
replies 379Dec 11, 2017 1:11 PM +00:00

The very talented and DL fave Linda Mugleston landed the featured role of Mrs. Pearce in the MFL revival! But will they make her understudy Diana Rigg?????

The Bartlett Sher production at Lincoln Center finds three more principal players.
Playbill
--Anonymous
replies 380Dec 11, 2017 1:12 PM +00:00

r379 Maybe Sondheim has been fucking with us all this time. Maybe Passion is really a comedy.

--Anonymous
replies 381Dec 11, 2017 1:41 PM +00:00

I'm not surprised John Kander hated that Anna Maxwell Martin "Cabaret." Judging from the clips on YouTube, it was not just misguided but incredibly ugly as well.

Having her do the entire "Don't Tell Mama" in a nun's habit was a jaw-droppingly bad idea.

--Anonymous
replies 382Dec 11, 2017 1:54 PM +00:00

You miss the point, r375--it has nothing to do with sex, it's purely existential.

--Anonymous
replies 383Dec 11, 2017 2:08 PM +00:00

R381, the preview audiences certainly thought so. All books about it detail how the audiences laughed at all the wrong places.

--Anonymous
replies 384Dec 11, 2017 2:15 PM +00:00

r379, that would mean they CAME BACK!

--Anonymous
replies 385Dec 11, 2017 2:32 PM +00:00

I've seen the Rufus Norris CABARET twice. Ihe first was in the West End with something like the third replacement cast. I really liked the Kost. There was a chorus boy/sailor with a Stretch Armstrong penis, who came running out of Kost's room, interrupting Kost and Schneider mid-bicker. When I saw the tour in the regions a few years later, they'd removed the cock flopping. Schneider was played by the Shake n Vac Lady on the tour.

I think pop star Will Young took the same production back into the West End. He's been touring it again in the past year. So that production is basically celebrating 10 years in the UK.

--Anonymous
replies 386Dec 11, 2017 3:16 PM +00:00

Just to add to the comments on No One Has Ever Loved Me: I find the London revision bizarre. First, Giorgio sings most of it not to Fosca but the doctor (?). ("No one has ever loved me as THAT WOMAN HAS." Good heavens.) And then Sondheim extends it and makes it swell like a bad Andrew Lloyd Webber ballad. Too much of a good thing, or what was a really truly moving good thing. And then he gives the added music some awful lyrics, something like "I was wrong, blah blah blah, love can be SURRENDER, not TENDER, blah blah blah, I love Fosca not like she loves me." Yikes. What Giorgio sings to Fosca is only what was the second verse pre-revision. Too bad. For one thing, Michael Ball was in very fine voice here.

--Anonymous
replies 387Dec 11, 2017 3:22 PM +00:00

The creatives still deny it but they had to take out the intermission at Passion because they lost three quarters of the audience every night.

Follies had the same problem. During the New York previews, the cabbies knew to be waiting outside the Winter Garden at the end of Act One. That was fine with them because it gave them time to do that fare and then get back to the other theaters at the end of their shows' second acts.

Passion is about a deranged stalker and her unstable willing victim.

--Anonymous
replies 388Dec 11, 2017 3:28 PM +00:00

Rufus Norris directed that production of Cabaret? That explains a lot. His Threepenny Opera at the NT last year was unwatchable.

--Anonymous
replies 389Dec 11, 2017 3:31 PM +00:00

Still, because of the book's structure, there isn't really a good place for an intermission. Too Many Mornings is a great song, but not to end an act with. And ending Act 1 with it means you open Act 2 with The Right Girl. Not a great act opener either. Aren't there productions that close Act 1 with Who's That Woman? Not bad. Breaking it up here means opening Act 2 with I'm Still Here. Not bad either.

--Anonymous
replies 390Dec 11, 2017 3:34 PM +00:00

And I know Lapine and Sondheim claim Passion is about obsession and compulsion but it's still just a soggy melodrama with a second rate score about a deranged stalker. I've posted this before but the night I saw it late in previews, at one point in the second act Fosca threw herself on her knees, grabbed Giorgio tight around his legs and exclaimed "What can I do to proved to you how much I love you!" or words to that effect.

"Let go of his legs!" came the reply from the audience and the house exploded in laughter.

Later the doctor came out and announced her death. A big wave of applause swept the theater.

--R388
replies 391Dec 11, 2017 3:43 PM +00:00

Never saw Passion.

So it should have been called A Very Scary Stalker Who is More Shallow than the Beautiful Man She is Stalking?

--Anonymous
replies 392Dec 11, 2017 4:14 PM +00:00
So it should have been called A Very Scary Stalker Who is More Shallow than the Beautiful Man She is Stalking?

No, it should have been called The Most Boring Musical About The Most Uninteresting People With Not One Redeeming Song And If I Had Knoqn It Was This Shitty I Would Have Stayed Home And Cleaned My Oven Because At Least The Fumes From The Cleaner Would Have Given Me A Bit Of A Lift

--Anonymous
replies 393Dec 11, 2017 4:20 PM +00:00

Were there reports of walkouts at the NT Follies?

--Anonymous
replies 394Dec 11, 2017 4:24 PM +00:00

Naw, some people who stayed laughed, just about only that once. Others still left and didn't look back.

--Anonymous
replies 395Dec 11, 2017 4:51 PM +00:00
Emma Stone's pretty good as Sally Bowles.

I thought she was excellent and have said before that I think they should've done a new film of the Mendes CABARET with her and Cumming. I believe it would make quite an interesting companion piece to the original Fosse film.

--Anonymous
replies 396Dec 11, 2017 4:51 PM +00:00

that was about "Passion"

--R395
replies 397Dec 11, 2017 4:53 PM +00:00

I saw the Emma Stone/Alan Cumming version, and I also thought Emma Stone was excellent. She can sing in tune, but she doesn't have a recording voice, so it made sense that her Sally would be in a second-rate dive in Berlin. And Stone really is a good actress. Supposedly she was offered the choice to open the run but thought it was too much pressure and turned it down, so Michelle Williams opened the show. If Stone had been the first Sally in this run, she would have been nominated for the Tony for sure and might well have won. Jessie Mueller won that year for Beautiful

I also saw the Norbert Leo Butz/Joely Fisher version on tour in SF. They were both very good, although Fisher didn't seem completely comfortable with the accent.

--Anonymous
replies 398Dec 11, 2017 5:06 PM +00:00

I remember reading that PBS was going to film Cabaret during Stone's run. Not sure what happened or why it fell through but it's a shame. Stone was going to open the show but accepted a film role instead. AnnE Hathaway was also in talks. Poor Michelle Williams got negative reviews but I thought she was actually quite good as was Sienna Miller who came in for the last 2 months of the run.

--Anonymous
replies 399Dec 11, 2017 5:10 PM +00:00

As much as Ive spoken of my issues with Sondheim and his lack of fire in his work, I was there at Passion and even with all the laughing (and there was) in all the wrong places (and it was) I couldnt IMAGINE having left a new Sondheim musical EVER!!!!!!!

((Unless it was Bounce))

--THEN I would have taken the directive!
replies 400Dec 11, 2017 5:11 PM +00:00

and by the way, Merrily was another mess I didnt leave. But that was because the songs were just so good. I remember hearing "Charlie why cant it be like it was"

And it WAS!

--Anonymous
replies 401Dec 11, 2017 5:14 PM +00:00

Emma Stone really was an excellent Sally. I was surprised by how great of a stage actor she was. Some film stars can't do it. I thought that was one of the problems with Michelle Williams when she did it. Her Sally was honestly kind of boring. I didn't think it was possible to make Sally Bowles boring. She also seemed to insist on wearing less sexy clothes. Sienna Miller was possibly even worse. She barely even registered. They just made Emma look even better.

I don't see why some network or even Netflix couldn't do a new Cabaret with Emma as Sally. I think a lot of people would tune in.

--Anonymous
replies 402Dec 11, 2017 5:37 PM +00:00

I think Cumming should do it with her, R402, while he's still young enough to pull it off. They were both great in the "revival revival" a couple years ago.

If Cumming couldn't do it, I do have sort of an offbeat suggestion as a replacement: the adorable Robin Lord Taylor, who plays Penguin in "Gotham." If he can sing, I think he would make a mesmerizing Emcee.

www4.pictures.zimbio.com
--Anonymous
replies 403Dec 11, 2017 5:47 PM +00:00

For those familiar with their music, are Pasek & Paul really the best young composers working right now? They just got another Globe nomination this morning for their song in the new Hugh Jackman movie. There just doesn't appear to be anything these guys can't do.

--Anonymous
replies 404Dec 11, 2017 5:50 PM +00:00

Is that a joke question?

--you devil you
replies 405Dec 11, 2017 5:56 PM +00:00

Passion is dreck. There is a lot of passion elsewhere in the canon.

--Anonymous
replies 406Dec 11, 2017 6:05 PM +00:00

DL makes me question my gayness and taste in musical theater. I absolutely love the score to Passion-it’s gorgeous. Miss Saigon is probably my favorite musical ever, and I adored War Paint. I loathe and despise Cabaret. What’s wrong with me??

--Hanging head in shame
replies 407Dec 11, 2017 6:27 PM +00:00

You have no taste? I could forgive the Passion and War Paint stuff but Miss Saigon is dreck through-and-through while Cabaret is rightly regarded as a masterpiece.

--Anonymous
replies 408Dec 11, 2017 7:22 PM +00:00
ABC needs to show the infinitely superior Bedknobs and Broomsticks instead and show it uncut with limited commercial interruption. I'm tired of that film being vilified by the fat, self-loathing, pathetic losers who can't recognize what a poorly written, maudlin, white hetero-gentile supremacist piece of shit film that cunt with the umbrella is and what a shit ally the Widow Edwards is. Instead they go after Lansbury, a superior actress, singer, and gay ally, and project the flaws of the umbrella bitch film onto every other musical and hybrid of the era, while suppressing the far superior Song of the South and enabling sex offenders at the same time.

We've all seen your photos & videos, Matt. A person with goat titties should be the last one to be calling anyone else fat.

--Anonymous
replies 409Dec 11, 2017 7:25 PM +00:00
And [R354] I am not gay. I am a human sexual being who misses that in the works of one of my favorite composers though I understand the times in which he wrote.

*eyeroll*

--Anonymous
replies 410Dec 11, 2017 7:26 PM +00:00
There was a chorus boy/sailor with a Stretch Armstrong penis, who came running out of Kost's room, interrupting Kost and Schneider mid-bicker.

Oh my GOD. You just made me remember I saw that production on a family trip to London when I was in 9th or 10th grade. My mom was mortified at that moment & her expression/reaction is family lore. It really was a humongous, flopping penis. Just freakishly long.

I remember not liking the production, and I was at the stage of my life where I loved anything and everything theater, so it must have been truly bad if I was lukewarm on it.

--Anonymous
replies 411Dec 11, 2017 7:28 PM +00:00
His Threepenny Opera at the NT last year was unwatchable.

I thought it was the best Brecht I've ever seen. Really got the acid humor and moral ambiguity of Brecht. It was also fun that Rory Kinnear was fucking everybody onstage. The new translation was crude but effective.

--Anonymous
replies 412Dec 11, 2017 7:42 PM +00:00

Both men and women?

--Binary system devotee
replies 413Dec 11, 2017 7:49 PM +00:00

There can be a passionate undercurrent in Sondheim's work, but really I think that's despite his best efforts to tamp that down. Joanna Gleason brought so much to the role of Mrs. Baker, especially opposite Robert Whatshisface, you could really feel the human longing that's often elided over in fairy tales. It's just unfortunate that Boyd Gaines was such a non-entity as Mr. Baker.

Sondheim is too focused on being clever to be passionate. The spontaneity has to be in the performance because it sure as hell isn't in the writing.

--Anonymous
replies 414Dec 11, 2017 9:30 PM +00:00

Wasn't that Chip Zien?

--Anonymous
replies 415Dec 11, 2017 9:44 PM +00:00
DL makes me question my gayness and taste in musical theater. I absolutely love the score to Passion-it’s gorgeous.

I like listening to it a lot, too.

I've seen clips of it on youtube, and like it better just imaginging the action.

The "masterpiece" that leaves me cold is....FOLLIES. I don't care about Lucy, Jessie, or anyone else in there.

www.quotemaster.org
--Anonymous
replies 416Dec 11, 2017 9:46 PM +00:00

Who are Mr. and Mrs. Baker, r414? Do you mean The Baker and The Baker's Wife? If so, that was Joanna Gleason and Chip Zien, not Boyd Gaines.

--Anonymous
replies 417Dec 12, 2017 1:08 AM +00:00

So I guess it's true that the idea of a Times exposé of Broadway was just a big fiction, right?

--Anonymous
replies 418Dec 12, 2017 1:16 AM +00:00

The Times was so overwhelmed with new contacts after that weekend when the rumor of the story leaked out that the story has been continually revised since. It's coming, probably as a series.

--Anonymous
replies 419Dec 12, 2017 1:23 AM +00:00

I saw Passion, which the critics at the time bent over backwards to like, but I was stunned at how deathly intense it all was, like a bad Universal horror movie from the 40’s. In fact, when Murphy appeared in Shea’s railway compartment, covered in deepest black, I actually said out loud, “Look, it's Dracula's daughter!”

This prompted laughs from people around me. In fact, as we were all exiting later, a man said to me that my comment about Dracula’s daughter was the highlight of the show!

I just couldn’t understand how such a moribund piece could have garnered those reviews.

--Anonymous
replies 420Dec 12, 2017 2:14 AM +00:00

Sam Mendes stopped the cabaret taping. He doesn't want Rob Marshall to get any more acclaim

--Anonymous
replies 421Dec 12, 2017 2:29 AM +00:00

The NT Follies reaffirms that the show works best (or only) without an intermission.

--Anonymous
replies 422Dec 12, 2017 3:34 AM +00:00

As the one who started this talk of Sondheim's lack of fire and passion, I like what you said R414 :

"There can be a passionate undercurrent in Sondheim's work, but really I think that's despite his best efforts to tamp that down.

Sondheim is too focused on being clever to be passionate. The spontaneity has to be in the performance because it sure as hell isn't in the writing."

Case in point: Jason Alexander saying Sondheim once stalked him down and shouted at the top of his lungs " Dont you EVER mess around WITH MY SCORE!!!!" when Jason added just a slide of the note to 'HUM' in Merrily's " Its not a tune you can huuuuuum."

Heil Sondheim!

--You KNOW theres a release happening SOMEWHERE------(down there)
replies 423Dec 12, 2017 3:40 AM +00:00

First of all, the line is “there’s not a tune you can hum”

Second, that story is probably 85-95% bullshit. What’s your reference?

--Anonymous
replies 424Dec 12, 2017 3:52 AM +00:00

I saw the NT Follies twice. I wish I could have seen it more times. Not a fan of "Follies" (but I have seen the original London production, the KC, the Roundabout, and the concert with Murphy) but this was a great production. Perfect staging and an incredible ensemble. Not too crazy about crazy Imelda but that was one for the ages for me.

--Anonymous
replies 425Dec 12, 2017 4:09 AM +00:00
Sam Mendes stopped the cabaret taping. He doesn't want Rob Marshall to get any more acclaim

I don't think he has anything to worry about.

--Nine Memoirs of a Geisha on the Caribbean
replies 426Dec 12, 2017 4:14 AM +00:00

Oh I love a challenge when I got the goods

HERE YOU GO R424

(Its even better when HE tells it,no?)

The Tony winner shares the story from his Merrily We Roll Along days.
Playbill
--Talk to ya later alligator!
replies 427Dec 12, 2017 4:26 AM +00:00

r424 This was actually already mentioned here before, citing the same article as r427.

--Anonymous
replies 428Dec 12, 2017 4:42 AM +00:00
Miss Saigon is probably my favorite musical ever

I think a lot of people like Miss Saigon because of its power ballads. It's a highly emotional show and if you like emotion over substance, then you like that show. I'm actually surprised that no pop singer has recorded "Last Night Of The World." Maybe pop singers don't record Broadway anymore?

The problem I have with Miss Saigon is that it blows its wad in Act 1. I find Act 2 is extremely boring music-wise. I think with a bit of tinkering and rewriting, they could end the musical at the end of Act 1 and have a sufficient musical.

--Anonymous
replies 429Dec 12, 2017 5:04 AM +00:00
So I guess it's true that the idea of a Times exposé of Broadway was just a big fiction, right?

Are you calling Lea Salogna a liar?

--Willy Falk
replies 430Dec 12, 2017 5:10 AM +00:00
There can be a passionate undercurrent in Sondheim's work, but really I think that's despite his best efforts to tamp that down. Joanna Gleason brought so much to the role
Sondheim is too focused on being clever to be passionate. The spontaneity has to be in the performance because it sure as hell isn't in the writing.

This is so true. I think that's why nobody has been able to touch Dorothy Collins' "Losing My Mind." And I think that's why we all with Judy Garland had been around to sing more of Sondheim's songs because she could bring a more heart-felt rendering of the song than many of today's artists.

People are so longing for Sondheim to be performed well that they praise mediocre or wrong performances. I love Judi Dench but her angry "Send In The Clowns" is wrong. And several people have said Bernadette Peters is the chief interpreter of Sondheim. Well that's just as wrong as Elaine Stritch screaming her way through "I'm Still Here." Bernadette weeps her way through the songs and always sings them in that choked voice of hers.

IMO, Cleo Laine came very close to being a chief Sondheim interpreter with her Sondheim album. But I think musical fans really wish there were better Sondheim interpreters. And the poster above nailed it. It's not about singing the song in a clever way. It's about bringing a personalization to the song.

--Anonymous
replies 431Dec 12, 2017 5:20 AM +00:00

Times piece will reach the public, it escalated and added some very prominent names in the victim stable, expect it before year’s end.

--Anonymous
replies 432Dec 12, 2017 5:34 AM +00:00

r407 Try reading the libretto, no music. It will make you cringe.

r429 Structurally, Miss Saigon follows Madama Butterfly closely, and most people don't have a problem with the latter. I think what makes Miss Saigon a slog, especially Act 2, is the Engineer. We do not need three Act 2 solos from him. The librettists tried to make something out of him, an I'm-a-survivor stand-in for all the Vietnamese left behind, but it doesn't really work. All of it is jammed into Act 2. That's why it's so boring. We want to see what happens next to Kim, but we get him instead. We already know he'll be fine, and even if we don't, who cares, he's a scumbag. For the most part, the Engineer is just a one-man Greek chorus, commenting on the action. So is Che in Evita, but he also serves as an effective foil for the (anti)-heroine.

r431 Is Bernadette's voice choked, or is it just hoarse and phlegmy? Ditto on Cleo Laine.

--Anonymous
replies 433Dec 12, 2017 5:49 AM +00:00

^ My response to r407 refers to Miss Saigon.

--R433
replies 434Dec 12, 2017 5:51 AM +00:00

^ Oh, and when I said ditto on Cleo Laine, I meant I agree that she "came very close to being a chief Sondheim interpreter with her Sondheim album," not that she's choked, or hoarse, or phlegmy. Sorry for the add-ons.

--R433
replies 435Dec 12, 2017 5:54 AM +00:00
Is Bernadette's voice choked, or is it just hoarse and phlegmy?

Yes, she can be hoarse and phlegmy. But she uses the choked voice to convey emotion. You can hear it as far back as the Song & Dance cast recording (I'll have to go back and see if I heard it before that). The choked voice may serve an actress effectively once, but she does it all the time to convey sadness, to convey anger and to convey anything where she's trying to "touch" the audience.

--Anonymous
replies 436Dec 12, 2017 6:13 AM +00:00

I see no need for Bernadette Peters to "touch" me with her phlegm.

--No need at all.
replies 437Dec 12, 2017 6:22 AM +00:00

the problem with writers like Sondheim and with Lin Manuel Miranda is that they're not content to let their work speak for itself.....they HAVE to be smartest, pithiest, astute, percipient, and savy person in the room at all times. The need to show off their own intellect trumps every artistic impulse.

--Anonymous
replies 438Dec 12, 2017 7:26 AM +00:00

I’ve said it before & will say it again:

It makes absolutely no sense that the NYT would expose multiple harassers in one article. Each harasser in any industry is a separate story. They would not lump them in together. Why would they get one headline when they can get multiple headlines?

Thus, no “Broadway expose” is coming. There are likely to be other individual stories that come out one at a time, though.

--Anonymous
replies 439Dec 12, 2017 7:38 AM +00:00

because R438 they cannot offer TRUE sensual beauty. Look at Lin's ballads. And Sondheim's body. Theyre both not in their bodies really. They both live in their minds and their creations yet NEITHER can really sing! the songs they write. And even LIN cant dance. Mind and creation/color and light/ have taken over. But Lin will mellow as has S.

Drivers outside the CBS Television City in the Fairfax District got more than they bargained for at the light. Jeff Michael and Sharon Tay report.
YouTube
--Anonymous
replies 440Dec 12, 2017 7:53 AM +00:00

Whoever said that M. Butterfly would never make it to its announced closing date was correct. It's out of here at the end of the week.

UPDATE December 12: Poor ticket sales have continued to plague the Broadway revival of M. Butterfly, which has moved its closing date up a month to December 17, the producers announced today. EARLI…
Deadline
--Anonymous
replies 441Dec 12, 2017 8:16 AM +00:00

Good riddance to that lousy production of M. Butterfly. It sullied my memories of the original, which at the time I thought had brilliant staging and performances by the two leads.

--Anonymous
replies 442Dec 12, 2017 8:54 AM +00:00
Sam Mendes stopped the cabaret taping. He doesn't want Rob Marshall to get any more acclaim

That that mediocre nonentity who happens to share a sexual orientation with me can get work directing movies and John Waters can't, regardless of what you think of his most recent film work, makes me cry.

--Anonymous
replies 443Dec 12, 2017 8:58 AM +00:00

Only people who ain't that smart think the "problem" with Sondheim is that he is too "intellectual." "Johanna?" "Being Alive?" "With So Little To Be Sure Of?" It is possible to do two things at the same time, at least for some, i.e. emotionally rich AND intellectually provocative....

--Anonymous
replies 444Dec 12, 2017 9:03 AM +00:00

Too bad Sondheim never wrote a show about zombies and wrote a song called "Being Dead" for a zombie to sing. That would be awesomesauce and amazeballs.

--Typical millennial dudebro who fucks dudes but won't admit he's gay
replies 445Dec 12, 2017 9:08 AM +00:00

you think Being Alive is emotionally rich and intellectually "provocative?" or Johanna the same?

then lets agree to disagree on both emotions and intellect

--Anonymous
replies 446Dec 12, 2017 9:17 AM +00:00

Just a note that most people probably know, but the Mendes/Donmar production was filmed. I can see why Mendes would not want the Roundabout/Marshall taped as there is already a record of *his* production.

--Anonymous
replies 447Dec 12, 2017 9:33 AM +00:00

A very white and silver spoon family from Mountain Brook Alabama still owns their family Cotton plantation in Pineapple Alabama from 1840. Its near Evergreen in South Alabama. Carmichael is the last name. They are graduates of the University of Alabama.

--Anonymous
replies 448Dec 12, 2017 9:34 AM +00:00

The Sondheim song that has always had the most feeling to me is the Johanna Quartet, and Sweeney is slitting throats throughout it. Make of that what you will.

Original Broadway Cast Recording
YouTube
--Anonymous
replies 449Dec 12, 2017 9:36 AM +00:00

R448, unless its Mount'n Brooks Ashmanskas, nobody on this thread cares.

--Anonymous
replies 450Dec 12, 2017 9:37 AM +00:00

"Make of that what you will. "

What I make of it R449 is youre one sick puppy!

No, but seriously, I love it too.

--ALONG WITH THIS
replies 451Dec 12, 2017 10:08 AM +00:00
A very white and silver spoon family from Mountain Brook Alabama still owns their family Cotton plantation in Pineapple Alabama from 1840.

That would have been more relevant to the previous thread, banana head!

--John Houseman's ghost
replies 452Dec 12, 2017 10:15 AM +00:00

Hey,Mountain Brook Alabama---

www.google.com
--HERE'S SOMEONE FOR YOU
replies 453Dec 12, 2017 10:19 AM +00:00
Too Many Mornings is a great song, but not to end an act with. And ending Act 1 with it means you open Act 2 with The Right Girl. Not a great act opener either.

I half-agree with you. "The Right Girl" isn't a good Act II opener, but I think "Too Many Mornings" works very well as the Act I closer -- especially if the staging has Buddy see Sally and Ben kiss right before the fadeout.

Structurally, Miss Saigon follows Madama Butterfly closely, and most people don't have a problem with the latter. I think what makes Miss Saigon a slog, especially Act 2, is the Engineer. We do not need three Act 2 solos from him. The librettists tried to make something out of him, an I'm-a-survivor stand-in for all the Vietnamese left behind, but it doesn't really work. All of it is jammed into Act 2. That's why it's so boring. We want to see what happens next to Kim, but we get him instead. We already know he'll be fine, and even if we don't, who cares, he's a scumbag.

Good point. A lot of people seem to find the Engineer entertaining, but I agree there's too much of him in SAIGON, especially in the second act.

--Anonymous
replies 454Dec 12, 2017 10:26 AM +00:00

R439 exactly, it will be a comprehensive series, which their investigative arm is especially known for..

--Anonymous
replies 455Dec 12, 2017 10:56 AM +00:00

Yeah, that arm they've kept so strategically tied behind their backs

--Anonymous
replies 456Dec 12, 2017 11:04 AM +00:00

The role of The Engineer is so built-up because it was created by a Tony and Olivier-winning star. That's also one of the reasons it can seem underwhelming when it's being performed by the second cover.

--Kate Fahy
replies 457Dec 12, 2017 11:43 AM +00:00
I can see why Mendes would not want the Roundabout/Marshall taped as there is already a record of *his* production.

And it's God-awful. Jane Horrocks is terrible as Sally - easily the worst version of "Cabaret" ever - at least Rob Marshall was able to improve it a little in NY.

--Anonymous
replies 458Dec 12, 2017 1:12 PM +00:00

Jane's awful "Cabaret."

with speach by alan cumming. I do not own this. just thinks she does an amazing job with the song, much better than liza
YouTube
--Anonymous
replies 459Dec 12, 2017 1:16 PM +00:00

We need a reprint of Michael Feingold's Village Voice review of the original Broadway production of Miss Saigon.

One of the great critical eviscerations of all time.

To say he loathed and despised it is putting it kindly.

--Anonymous
replies 460Dec 12, 2017 1:31 PM +00:00

Simply good theatre R449, the more horrid and macabre the killing got the prettier the music. Excellent Theatre!

--A.P.
replies 461Dec 12, 2017 2:07 PM +00:00

Who asked for a Gwenyth Paltrow-produced musical? ugh.

--Anonymous
replies 462Dec 12, 2017 3:03 PM +00:00

Lady Bird has lots of Sondheim, especially in the first half or so. There's a high school production of Merrily. (With t-shirts!) Laurie Metcalf is really good, but I don't think this is the kind of role that wins Oscars (no big moments), so she probably will stay an E--T for now.

--Anonymous
replies 463Dec 12, 2017 3:05 PM +00:00

Metcalfe has won nearly every critic's award so far. I think she has an excellent chance of winning.

--Anonymous
replies 464Dec 12, 2017 3:19 PM +00:00

r464 Oh, don't get me wrong. I do hope she wins. But what's up with NYFCC giving picture and actress to Lady Bird and Ronan, and then supporting actress to Tiffany Haddish? Was this a Cameron Diaz year?

--Anonymous
replies 465Dec 12, 2017 3:24 PM +00:00

Did you know theres now a site with high end graphics called ROTTEN APPLES that tell you if the movie or tv you type in contains a sexual abuser??!!

Just UNREAL where we've landed.

See if the film or TV show you’re interested in has connections to someone with allegations of sexual misconduct. #RottenApples
Rotten Apples
--Anonymous
replies 466Dec 12, 2017 4:35 PM +00:00

i didn't know that Tiffany Haddish won, or that she would have even been recognized in such a role. She was absolutely peerless in Girls Trip. I had not heard of her before seeing the movie, but I will now see any movie she is in. I hope she doesn't keep repeating the same shtick over and over, but she was fearless and hysterical in that movie.

--Anonymous
replies 467Dec 12, 2017 4:41 PM +00:00

"they HAVE to be smartest, pithiest, astute, percipient, and savy person in the room at all times" Oh, please, there's zero comparison between "they." Only Sondheim has the talent to pull it off...AND his music is passionate. Absolutely. Intellectual on many levels, sure, but so is Stravinsky's. Not everything appeals, but so what? He has nothing to prove to anybody. But nothing will ever beat his glorious 70's run from COMPANY to SWEENEY TODD.

--Anonymous
replies 468Dec 12, 2017 5:13 PM +00:00

Dont tell that to Manuella

--Anonymous
replies 469Dec 12, 2017 5:17 PM +00:00
R466 Did you know theres now a site with high end graphics called ROTTEN APPLES that tell you if the movie or tv you type in contains a sexual abuser??!!

So what's wrong with that?

Some people don't like financially supporting scum like that. Would you send a financial contribution to a political party you violently disagreed with?

--Anonymous
replies 470Dec 12, 2017 5:23 PM +00:00

are you a girl^?

--Anonymous
replies 471Dec 12, 2017 5:25 PM +00:00

Saw "Parisian Woman" tonight. Why the fuck did this ever get produced? It's a piece of ridiculous shit. Uma has no right to be up there, since she has no chemistry with anyone else on that stage, and Josh Lucas is mincing around up there like he's auditioning for Emory. I honestly thought his character was a homosexual. Blair Brown is fine in her first scene, but loses the thread completely in her second. And lots of drunken Trumpers in the audience, swilling champagne, applauding every time Blair's character praises our cheetoh-in-chief. That was really creepy, but not as creepy as Uma's attempt at a performance.

The only one who escapes with her dignity intact is Phillipa Soo.

--Anonymous
replies 472Dec 12, 2017 6:20 PM +00:00
R471 Are you a girl?

Why...are you?

--Anonymous
replies 473Dec 12, 2017 6:37 PM +00:00

Fuck off, r470. No one is hiring accused sexual predators now, but people can’t be responsible for a movie coming out now that has someone in it that wasn’t known as a predator when it was filmed.

--Anonymous
replies 474Dec 12, 2017 8:13 PM +00:00

r467 She kept repeating the same shtick over and over in that one movie.

--Anonymous
replies 475Dec 12, 2017 8:37 PM +00:00

To even mention Manuela and Sondheim in the same sentence is a sacrilege. Gurl, pls, that Camelltoe shite won't age well...

--Anonymous
replies 476Dec 12, 2017 8:47 PM +00:00

Years ago we were at an event in the VIP area with darling Lin, he was twee and insufferable, non-sexual energy and glad handing like a two-bit local councilman, and then he did the musical about the history starring the blacks, nevermind...

--Anonymous
replies 477Dec 12, 2017 9:29 PM +00:00

Anyone else attend the Broadway Dreams event last night at the Plaza honoring Heather Headley? Now that was a great Broadway evening. So much fun and such amazing talent - Jessie Mueller, Denee Benton, Katrina Lenk . . .

--Anonymous
replies 478Dec 13, 2017 2:51 AM +00:00

Honoring Heather Headley? What has she done in the last 16 years worth honoring? Not making a joke, just curious.

--Anonymous
replies 479Dec 13, 2017 3:09 AM +00:00

Bernadette has been doing the tear rolling down the cheek and catch in the throat schtick since TV appearances in the mid-1970s singing What'll I Do? and My Buddy.

--Anonymous
replies 480Dec 13, 2017 3:50 AM +00:00

Maybe Ms. Peters is just perpetually sad.

--Or possibly a one trick pony, I'll give you that.
replies 481Dec 13, 2017 4:01 AM +00:00

She didn't cry when she sang "Time Heals Everything" in Mack and Mabel.

--Anonymous
replies 482Dec 13, 2017 4:38 AM +00:00

No, the investors did though.

--Anonymous
replies 483Dec 13, 2017 5:09 AM +00:00

That's the best you've got, r483? That was pretty weak.

--Anonymous
replies 484Dec 13, 2017 5:18 AM +00:00

New rule. Only widows can play Dolly for this production.

--Anonymous
replies 485Dec 13, 2017 5:33 AM +00:00

Someone upthread mentioned that the role of the Engineer was beefed-up because of the skills of the actor cast to play him. I've also read about how songwriters of the previous generation wrote the musical scores to suit the actors hired; one example I recall is Sondheim saying that M Armfeld (sp?) songs had a small range, because Hermione Gingold's vocal range was small at that point in her life. Which brings me to my question: is that even done anymore? Do writers write to suit the cast? Or do they hire the cast to suit the score? If the latter, I wonder if that is part of the decline of musicals, because we lose the alchemy of the actor and the author working together to create something memorable and once in a lifetime, and why much of what is produced is so generic. Does anyone know?

--Anonymous
replies 486Dec 13, 2017 5:39 AM +00:00

If/Then was written for Idina, though that doesn't contradict your point that much of what is produced today is sounds generic.

--Anonymous
replies 487Dec 13, 2017 5:45 AM +00:00

G(a)linda in Wicked was written and beefed up for Kristin Chenoweth.

--Anonymous
replies 488Dec 13, 2017 6:21 AM +00:00

r483, that was funny!!!

--Anonymous
replies 489Dec 13, 2017 6:22 AM +00:00

M. Butterfly and The Parisian Woman are awful, especially the former.

I loved The Children at MTC. Thank goodness there's at least one really good play on Broadway.

--Anonymous
replies 490Dec 13, 2017 6:23 AM +00:00

Sondheim never had a complete score done when his rehearsals began for anything. "Send in the Clowns" was written because of the way Glynis Johns played the scene one day in rehearsal. "In Praise of Women" was written to better showcase Laurence Guittard's huge voice. "Liaisons" as mentioned was tailored to Hermione Gingold.

With Sweeney Todd, he knew from the start that Lansbury would be doing it, although she didn't have the kinds of restrictions on her voice that Gingold and Johns did.

--Anonymous
replies 491Dec 13, 2017 6:28 AM +00:00
With Sweeney Todd, he knew from the start that Lansbury would be doing it

After it was offered and turned down by Patricia Routledge.

--Anonymous
replies 492Dec 13, 2017 6:43 AM +00:00

Showtunes lost their way when they lost all connection to jazz and classical music. Rock opera is for people too stupid to appreciate real opera or even good musical comedy. I still prefer the Oklahoma/My Fair Lady/Hello Dolly template of an even mix of singing and book scenes; the latter's successful revival proves audiences still haven't lost their taste for that sort of thing.

--Anonymous
replies 493Dec 13, 2017 6:45 AM +00:00

I dont know, R493, I loved some of Superstar and Tommy as well. But I agree they've lost their way, but I think on the way to finding it again. Though I see NO ONE with a unified vision yet.

AGREED R476--Lin is young yet has probably already peaked for he is unfortunately not that interesting a creator IMO.

And thank you R474 in response to R473-

I asked your sex because men usually have a greater compassion for the complexities of the dark side of sexuality and need use it now when they are rightly paying the price for its misuse.

When people are as aggressive as you R473 I assume that compassion is absent because there's another dog in the race.

Or in this case, a CAT.

--Anonymous
replies 494Dec 13, 2017 6:53 AM +00:00

and to clarify, R473 is R470 I imagine?

--Anonymous
replies 495Dec 13, 2017 6:55 AM +00:00
R492 After it was offered and turned down by Patricia Routledge.

I didn't know that! Did she ever voice any regrets?

--Anonymous
replies 496Dec 13, 2017 7:01 AM +00:00
"Send in the Clowns" was written because of the way Glynis Johns played the scene one day in rehearsal.

Hasn't Len Cariou said that the song was originally intended for his character to sing but was switched to Desiree for some reason? In the final version of the show, he only sings a few lines of the song as a reprise duet with Desiree.

--Anonymous
replies 497Dec 13, 2017 7:07 AM +00:00

Unlikely bc it was written specifically for her very narrow vocal range

--Anonymous
replies 498Dec 13, 2017 7:09 AM +00:00
I didn't know that! Did she ever voice any regrets?

She only said that she turned it down because she thought it was too gorey. Of course, I'm sure it wasn't fully formed when it was presented to her so she probably didn't get the full scope of what the musical was. If you think, "A musical about a woman who bakes people into pies after a barber slits their throats" doesn't sound like it would run more than a week.

But I think her role in The Beggar's Opera gives a slight hint of what she could have done with the role.

patricia routledge sings in the beggar's opera
YouTube
--Anonymous
replies 499Dec 13, 2017 7:12 AM +00:00

I think that Sondheim intended to write a song, specifics unknown, for Cariou to sing in that spot. Once he realized that Johns should have a song, he wrote Send in the Clowns, tailored for her voice.

--Anonymous
replies 500Dec 13, 2017 7:13 AM +00:00
R494 I asked your sex because men usually have a greater compassion for the complexities of the dark side of sexuality and need use it now when they are rightly paying the price for its misuse. When people are as aggressive as you [R473] I assume that compassion is absent because there's another dog in the race. Or in this case, a CAT.

I just don't think it's crazy at all that some people wouldn't want to support sexual abusers, financially or otherwise. I wouldn't use an app like that regularly, but would understand someone else wanting to.

I feel differently about awards, myself. Artists do benefit financialy from receiving awards, in a roundabout way, but I think it's wrong not to recognize their artistic contributions. There was a big outcry when Leni Riefestahl was given some award in the 90s (?) and I thought that was so strange. She DID make remarkable contribution to film. And Roman Polanski winning an Oscar for a particular work is fine with me, too.

But if a customer doesn't want to buy tickets to see the work of a sexual abuser....I think it's strange to be amazed by, or critical of, that.

--Gay-As-The-Day-Is-Long Male
replies 501Dec 13, 2017 7:16 AM +00:00

Routledge also may not have been thrilled to try yet another musical in the states. Her track record before that, hadn't been great: Love Match, Darling of the Day, etc.

--Anonymous
replies 502Dec 13, 2017 7:17 AM +00:00

Wasn't Hal Prince somehow involved in having a song in that spot, and having Desirée sing it? I'm pretty sure this was covered in Finishing the Hat.

r493 I agree, generally, but rock can be an effective vehicle too. I love Jesus Christ Superstar. It's right up there with the best of them. The overture is one of the most exciting in all of Broadway. Lloyd Webber went downhill from there.

r499 I do think Mrs. Lovett's range needs to sit lower, to make it jibe better with the spoken parts. Patricia Routledge's voice is too much of a legit soprano.

r502 Don't forget 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, her last stateside musical before Sondheim wrote Sweeney Todd. (Take Care of This House is a gorgeous song.)

The great Patricia Routledge sings one of the Leonard Bernstein-Alan Jay Lerner songs she introduced in the 1976 Broadway musical "1600 Pennsylvania Avenue."...
YouTube
--Anonymous
replies 503Dec 13, 2017 7:28 AM +00:00

Actually, Routledge returned to the US a little more than a year after Sweeney Todd opened to perform in the Shakespeare in the Park "Pirates of Penzance."

--Anonymous
replies 504Dec 13, 2017 7:39 AM +00:00

Clip @ R503

Oh...her name is pronounced ROUT-ledge (as spelled). I always heard it in my head as RUT-ledge.

--Anonymous
replies 505Dec 13, 2017 7:40 AM +00:00

I thought Sondheim said he wrote "...Clowns" specifically for Johns' limited breath, which is why the lines end with closed sounds, so no one would notice that she couldn't really hold a note for long.

Also, I thought Routledge was considered for London, but saw Sweeney on Bway and hated it.

--Anonymous
replies 506Dec 13, 2017 7:49 AM +00:00

Yes, r505. Also, it's not Bucket, it's Boo-KAY.

--Anonymous
replies 507Dec 13, 2017 7:50 AM +00:00

Here is an article talking about Routledge in Sweeney Todd. This article states that Lansbury was Sondheim's choice but Routledge was Hal Prince's choice.

www.theatreaficionado.com
--Anonymous
replies 508Dec 13, 2017 7:57 AM +00:00

R507 I think I heard it in my head as RUT-ledge because there's a character in Hitchcock's MARNIE with that name. It's actually the only time I've heard it. We don't find the name Routledge in America much. I guess none of them emigrated. Or they became Rutledges.

ROUT-ledge sounds like a collection of tubers to us.

Now I hate her, and her root-like filth.

--Breaking Her Records
replies 509Dec 13, 2017 7:57 AM +00:00
Yes, [R505]. Also, it's not Bucket, it's Boo-KAY.

Not when I pronounce it.

--Charlie Bucket
replies 510Dec 13, 2017 8:11 AM +00:00
After it was offered and turned down by Patricia Routledge.

Which happened before he'd written Lovett's music.

--Anonymous
replies 511Dec 13, 2017 8:43 AM +00:00

Isn't Dame Patsy Routledge a big ol' dyke?

--Anonymous
replies 512Dec 13, 2017 8:55 AM +00:00

R512 Since I found this on the internet, it must be true.

BEHOLD!

PATRICIA ROUTLEDGE - Lesbians can be posh too. Rumoured to be part of an older ladygay love triangle with 1) Pam St Clement and 2) Moira Stewart. Former Speaker of the House of Commons Betty Boothroyd has also been implicated as part of the over 50s ladygay lovegate. No confirmation of this, however, exists, but we’re ever so happy to join in with the gayway speculation.
--Anonymous
replies 513Dec 13, 2017 9:18 AM +00:00
Yeah, but [narcissistic umbrella cunt] doesn't even have Nazis

Yes it does. The title character, for instance, whose name means "beat up gay men," is a Nazi herself. And every other character in that wretched piece of shit that ought to be burned and forgotten about forever while Bedknobs and Broomsticks in its complete form has earned the right to call itself the greatest movie ever made now and forever.

--Anonymous
replies 514Dec 13, 2017 9:23 AM +00:00

I read that as adverse as Routledge was to doing ST Prince convinced her to come to NY to see the show. Even after seeing it she said no way.

Also Pirates played like gangbusters in the Delacorte and with that cast Routledge would certainly finally have had her Broadway hit. I think somebody said she simply did not want to spend her time doing Broadway at that point in her life and I don't believe she has done anything in NY since then.

Parsons was very badly cast but she always wanted to do a musical and Papp probably felt he owed her though I don't know why. Also the Uris was far too big for it. Something the size of the Broadhurst or Imperial would have been perfect. But he felt with that cast it was going to be a cash cow and wanted as many seats as possible. I was able to see that original Broadway cast twice through tkts. Had it played in a suitable theater that would have been impossible.

--Anonymous
replies 515Dec 13, 2017 9:48 AM +00:00

That article at R508 says that Mary Martin appeared in Kiss Me, Kate. I don't think she ever did a production of that show.

--Anonymous
replies 516Dec 13, 2017 9:51 AM +00:00

I was a Nazi. The keyword is "was."

--Mitzi from OVER HERE!
replies 517Dec 13, 2017 9:57 AM +00:00

Sounds like Martin turned down more legendary hit shows than she even appeared in.

--Anonymous
replies 518Dec 13, 2017 10:01 AM +00:00

I'm sure Gary Morton told her to.

--Anonymous
replies 519Dec 13, 2017 10:02 AM +00:00

Mary Martin would have been wrong for "Kiss Me Kate." Then again, she also would have been wrong for "Funny Girl," and she also turned that down.

--Anonymous
replies 520Dec 13, 2017 10:07 AM +00:00

Mary Martin also turned down Joshua Logan's MISS MOFFAT, the musical version of THE CORN IS GREEN that Bette Davis accepted and then bailed on out-of-town.

And shockingly, in Irene Mayor Selznick's autobiography, she says Elia Kazan wanted Mary Martin to play Blanche in A STREETCAR NAMED DESIRE (!) Can't imagine all her usual matinee lady fans swallowing THAT very well! (The others early considerees were Pamela Brown and Margaret Sullavan.)

i.pinimg.com
--Anonymous
replies 521Dec 13, 2017 10:19 AM +00:00

R520 Didn't Martin also turn down "Mame" and, initially, "Dolly" (which she did in London and on tours)? She would have seemed to me to have had the perfect voice for Jerry Herman's music and lyrics. And, while we think of her as hoydenish, I suspect she could have carried off the Beekman Place part of "Mame"--she did "One Touch of Venus," after all. And Janet could have played Vera. (With Heller as Gooch, no doubt.)

--Anonymous
replies 522Dec 13, 2017 10:19 AM +00:00

Was Marty Martin the only game in town back then? She was a matronly dwarf with all the sex appeal of a wet fart.

--Anonymous
replies 523Dec 13, 2017 10:21 AM +00:00

R501-I never said I didnt "understand" why someone would want to use such a website.

It is all too obvious WHY they would want to use it and esp. now!

But as I said , its "unreal where we've landed "that WE NOW HAVE A SEX REGISTRY FOR MOVIES.

And I'm not so much "critical" as pointed in my feelings about how we as a culture have dealt with the dark side once it rears its ugly head.

And I know I'll be slammed for this, but the predatory male heterosexual drive is different than the female or homosexual drive in that dealing with the greatest polarities, it requires the greatest compassion or rather, understanding..

I'm not gay so I know.

YOU guys are much easier to love.

--Anonymous
replies 524Dec 13, 2017 10:21 AM +00:00

r524 - Stop talking.

--Anonymous
replies 525Dec 13, 2017 10:22 AM +00:00

contribute or move on

--Anonymous
replies 526Dec 13, 2017 10:24 AM +00:00

Yes, "Audition Mary," as she was known in Hollywood, also turned down "Dolly."

--Anonymous
replies 527Dec 13, 2017 10:27 AM +00:00
Was Marty Martin the only game in town back then? She was a matronly dwarf with all the sex appeal of a wet fart.

She wasn't the only game in Hollywood, that's for darn sure.

--Mitzi G.
replies 528Dec 13, 2017 10:43 AM +00:00

Is it true Mary Martin and Janet Gaynor were longtime lovers?

Incidentally, for some reason Martin was one of the VERY few stars Edith Head found tiresom and didn't really like dressing. The other was Hedy Lamarr. (I think there was a third, but can't remember who it was.)

--Anonymous
replies 529Dec 13, 2017 10:59 AM +00:00

I though Routledge didn't do Pirates because Equity would not allow it. Her contract specifically forbade her to transfer with the show.

--Anonymous
replies 530Dec 13, 2017 11:00 AM +00:00

Mary wasn't pretty but she sure as hell could be cute and impish even when young as you can see from the photos from Leave It to Me. Gene Kelly said that she was fine during rehearsals but on opening night no one was expecting her to bring down the house with My Heart Belongs To Daddy.

And boy did she produce a helluva good looking son.

--Anonymous
replies 531Dec 13, 2017 11:03 AM +00:00

R530 That's the first I've heard of that but it makes sense. How unfortunate and silly. Whoever insisted on that is the kind of person who makes unions look bad.

--Anonymous
replies 532Dec 13, 2017 11:06 AM +00:00
I think that Sondheim intended to write a song, specifics unknown, for Cariou to sing in that spot. Once he realized that Johns should have a song, he wrote Send in the Clowns, tailored for her voice.50

r500 has it right. Sondheim and Prince had expected that scene to be Cariou's big moment in the show and were considering a song for him there. But after watching rehearsals and early previews, and the way Johns and Cariou were playing it, Sondheim realized that it was actually Desiree's moment and wrote the song for her.

--Anonymous
replies 533Dec 13, 2017 11:06 AM +00:00

Reading about Sondheim's reprimand to Jason Alexander in Merrily reminded me of a story Glynis Johns told in an interview I read many years ago (so no link). One night in previews she decided to muster all the vocal resources she had sing the the song full out.

After the show she was in her dressing room when Sondheim stuck just his head in the door, startling her because it looked like a disembodied head.

"Don't EVER do that again!" said the head and disappeared.

--R533
replies 534Dec 13, 2017 11:29 AM +00:00
Sondheim and Prince had expected that scene to be Cariou's big moment in the show and were considering a song for him there. But after watching rehearsals and early previews, and the way Johns and Cariou were playing it, Sondheim realized that it was actually Desiree's moment and wrote the song for her.

If this is true, were they planning for Sondheim to write some other song for Desiree? Because, other than "Send in the Clowns," she only sings a little bit in "The Glamorous Life" and "You Must Meet My Wife," and both of those are in Act I.

--Anonymous
replies 535Dec 13, 2017 11:29 AM +00:00

Routledge is indeed a lesbian. A late gay friend of mine was in the chorus of DARLING OF THE DAY and formed a very close relationship with her. They contemplated marriage, but decided they didn't want one of those fake couplings like Carol Channing and Mary Martin and their respective situations.

--Anonymous
replies 536Dec 13, 2017 11:47 AM +00:00

Someone just posted on All That Chat a link to the cast recording of The Band's Visit--for free, you just start it and it plays.

I'm listening to it now (on a separate tab). I thought it was going to be another Bandstand, but it's actually about a village in Israel. The songs are like nothing I've heard before. Wild and strange, very intriguing.

Recommended.

--Anonymous
replies 537Dec 13, 2017 11:51 AM +00:00

Unions are an anachronism and a relic of the Italian mafia and Russian-backed saboteurs.

--Anonymous
replies 538Dec 13, 2017 11:52 AM +00:00

I’m loving all this Routledge stuff. I wish she didn’t turn down the role of the Queen Mother in The Queen. She would have been great and we would have been spared that old fishwife Sylvia Syms as the QM.

--Anonymous
replies 539Dec 13, 2017 12:21 PM +00:00
But after watching rehearsals and early previews

No. The song was in at the first preview in Boston (there’s a tape). Prince himself says in his book that it was given to Johns two days before Boston. She loved it so much, she offered to sing it that night at the gypsy run through as long as she could hold a cheat sheet. She worked on it a couple of hours with Sondheim.

That night she was letter-perfect when she sang the song,and didn’t look at her cheat sheet once.

--Anonymous
replies 540Dec 13, 2017 12:32 PM +00:00

I really liked the score of THE BAND'S VISIT, R537. Has an OCR been released already? I will happily pay to download one.

I was really impressed by David Yazbeck. This sounds nothing like CITY OF ANGELS or DIRTY ROTTEN SCOUNDRELS or anything he's done previously.

--Anonymous
replies 541Dec 13, 2017 12:35 PM +00:00

Another person Williams was interested in for Blanche was Lillian Gish. THAT would have been interesting--who knows?

--Anonymous
replies 542Dec 13, 2017 12:39 PM +00:00

Yazbek didn't write City of Angels. But, yeah, Yazbek's scores sound nothing alike.

--Anonymous
replies 543Dec 13, 2017 12:39 PM +00:00

R542, not quite. Lillian Gish was the inspiration for the play Portrait of a Madonna. The play is dedicated to her. The two plays are very different. The character in Portrait is an older woman with what we would now call Alzheimers . In the end, they are both taken away due to mental illness, but the characters are very different.

--Anonymous
replies 544Dec 13, 2017 12:46 PM +00:00

You're confusing him with David Zippel who wrote the lyrics to City of Angels.

--Anonymous
replies 545Dec 13, 2017 12:53 PM +00:00

You mean like this, R480?

Big Jim McBob (Flaherty) and Billy Sol Hurok (Candy) host another special edition of Farm Film Report with celebrity guest, Bernadette Peters (Martin) SCTV, ...
YouTube
--in a deliberate sorta way!
replies 546Dec 13, 2017 12:58 PM +00:00

It will be digitally available on Dec. 15, R541. Or so the post on All That Chat says.

I hope there will be a CD, though.

Incidentally, while it's true that Yazbek changes his style from show to show, I find some of the Band's Visit score reminds me of Women On the Verge.

--Anonymous
replies 547Dec 13, 2017 1:02 PM +00:00

R530, why would Equity put such a restriction on a contract?

That does not pass the smell test.

--Anonymous
replies 548Dec 13, 2017 2:52 PM +00:00

R548, Actors' Equity has strict rules about members of British Equity appearing in American productions, and British Equity also restricts appearances by American actors on British stages. Deals have to be worked out, and often an exchange of U.S. and British performers is involved. It does seem to me that these restrictions have been loosened up somewhat in recent years, but "Pirates" happened many years ago.

--Anonymous
replies 549Dec 13, 2017 3:00 PM +00:00

Remember all the kerfuffle about Jonathan Pryce in "Miss Saigon?"

--Anonymous
replies 550Dec 13, 2017 3:13 PM +00:00

Wasn't ALW alledged to have finally told Equity that if Price wasn't allowed over for for Saigon he'd cancel the Broadway production, resulting in the loss of jobs for so many actors, crew, musicians, etc., so Equity caved?

I've heard the same story about Brightman and Phantom but don't know whether either story is true.

--Anonymous
replies 551Dec 13, 2017 3:31 PM +00:00
Wasn't ALW alledged to have finally told Equity that if Price wasn't allowed over for for Saigon he'd cancel the Broadway production, resulting in the loss of jobs for so many actors, crew, musicians, etc., so Equity caved?

That was Mackintosh.

--Anonymous
replies 552Dec 13, 2017 3:34 PM +00:00

Mary Martin turned down "Dolly" because she was already committed to "Jennie." Which turned out to be a major disaster. When Mary saw "Dolly" during her copious free time in early 1964, she rushed to call David Merrick to secure London for herself. She actually got to do a little bit of a US tour in it first, then went to London, then that turned into the international tour that played Vietnam.

Mary is actually my favorite recorded Dolly (on the London CD).

--Anonymous
replies 553Dec 13, 2017 3:47 PM +00:00

Routledge was a Tony winner. . Equity in the 70s and 80s always allowed star performers to play Broadway. It just had to be proven that they had a reputation that justified their hiring. A Tony is a pretty good justification.

The issue with Pryce was not that he was British, but rather that he was Caucasian.

Brightman's casting was fought by Equity because she was unknown.

But Routledge was a Tony

--Anonymous
replies 554Dec 13, 2017 3:53 PM +00:00

Ok so it was Routledge's decision not to do it?

--Anonymous
replies 555Dec 13, 2017 3:55 PM +00:00

The issue wasn’t just about Pryce not being Asian, it was also about Salonga not being American.

--Anonymous
replies 556Dec 13, 2017 4:08 PM +00:00

At the time it was discussed and yes, Routledge wanted to return to Britain.

--Anonymous
replies 557Dec 13, 2017 4:08 PM +00:00

I was involved in a lot of casting issues back in the day. I cannot remember there being any problem with Solonga being cast.

--Anonymous
replies 558Dec 13, 2017 4:11 PM +00:00

I cannot find any material that suggests Solonga's casting was controversial.

--Anonymous
replies 559Dec 13, 2017 4:13 PM +00:00

Salongs was not the problem; a white British actor playing Asian was more than enough.

And ALW did threaten to stop the Broadway production without Brightman.

--Anonymous
replies 560Dec 13, 2017 4:34 PM +00:00

Martin first led the short original US tour of Dolly. It opened in Dallas, near her hometown, and only played 3 or 4 more cities in the US. It then became billed as "The International Tour," going first to Tokyo. It was then scheduled to go to the USSR but Cold War politics intervened so Merrick re-directed the tour to Vietnam to play for the troops, often without the sets and within the sound of gunfire. London was the last stop, where Martin had done several shows, including South Pacific, over the years and was an audience favorite. The London original cast recording with Martin is excellent, although Carleton Carpenter, the tour's first Cornelius, had dropped out by that the point.

Here's a wonderful NBC documentary about Martin's tour. The video quality is only fair but some sequences are on youtube with better quality.

--Anonymous
replies 561Dec 13, 2017 4:43 PM +00:00

Anna Leonowens was half-Indian but they always cast white actresses as her.

--Anonymous
replies 562Dec 13, 2017 4:44 PM +00:00

It is true that Gish was the inspiration for and dedicatee of Portrait of a Madonna, but, according to Follies of God, Williams was interested, albeit briefly, in Gish as a possible Blanche. I think she had no sexual power as an actress and certainly not by the late 40s, but I can see how her sense of mystical femininity might have interested him for that part of Blanche. Similarly, Martin's flirtiness might have been right for that side of Blanche and perhaps her first-hand knowledge of how much "acting" it takes to perform heterosexual femininity outside the closet could also have been intriguing, but that would have required Martin to bring a kind of openness and self-examination to the role that I don't think she could have done. I adored Martin--I grew up imprinted on her Peter Pan and her Maria on the OBC--but I gather ruthless introspection was far from her strong suit.

--Anonymous
replies 563Dec 13, 2017 4:53 PM +00:00
And ALW did threaten to stop the Broadway production without Brightman.

Weren't they still married at the time?

--Anonymous
replies 564Dec 13, 2017 4:54 PM +00:00

Indeed -- the marriage lasted from 1984-90.

--Anonymous
replies 565Dec 13, 2017 4:57 PM +00:00

Putting out the Broadway welcome mat in song:

These days, once you take your seat, the performers thank you for being there and let you know what to expect. In rhyme!
www.nytimes.com
--Anonymous
replies 566Dec 13, 2017 5:42 PM +00:00

As for the Entertainment Weekly free preview of The Bands Visit all I can say is I imagine its better on stage.

One great song-Omar Sharif

The rest? Not so much.

Must be better to see than hear.

Anyone seen it?

--Anonymous
replies 567Dec 13, 2017 5:56 PM +00:00

Just saw it tonight and loved it. I'd forgotten how hot Tony Shalhoub is.

--Anonymous
replies 568Dec 13, 2017 6:18 PM +00:00
I'm just wondering how long before we see a Ronald McDonald musical.

The Hamburglar Dream Ballet number will be the highlight, I am sure.

--Anonymous
replies 569Dec 13, 2017 6:18 PM +00:00
Anna Leonowens was half-Indian but they always cast white actresses as her.

R562, that's because in her memoirs, and the book based on it (the source material for the show, along the plot changes made for the Fox film with Irene Dunne and Rex Harrison), she presented herself as white. It wasn't until years later that, gradually, the truth of her ancestry came out.

--"One drop of n***** blood in these parts makes you a n*****.
replies 570Dec 13, 2017 7:39 PM +00:00

...which, in the end, is completely irrelevant, since casting a non-white actress wouldn't fulfill the dramatic premise, r562, which takes precedence over the historical record. It would be as ridiculous as casting a black Emile De Becque. It's called dramatic license and every writer has the privilege and prerogative to exercise it to achieve their thematic ends.

--Anonymous
replies 571Dec 13, 2017 7:42 PM +00:00

True.

www.mpb.auction
--Anonymous
replies 572Dec 13, 2017 7:48 PM +00:00

...and Ava Gardner passed for black by wearing Light Egyptian.

Why wasn't Salonga's casting controversial? She had one line on her résumé, the London Miss Saigon. Or was she already considered a star for having won an Olivier for it?

And weren't most of the bit players (Gigi, etc.) brought in from London as well? That cast consisted mostly of Filipino unknowns who were hired along with Salonga during the Manila round of casting.

--Anonymous
replies 573Dec 13, 2017 8:38 PM +00:00

I just checked IBDB. What I said about the bit players can't be right. Sorry about that.

WHET Monique Wilson, the OTHER original Miss Saigon? All the attention was on Salonga but IIRC, they actually shared the role evenly, at least at first. She was on the documentary.

--Anonymous
replies 574Dec 13, 2017 8:44 PM +00:00

Speaking of Chip Zien not Boyd Gaines, why is there a 20th anniversary recording of Late Night Comic? That has to be one of the most dreadful shows that ever made it past 1 performance. The show was worse than Amour, and the music might have been the worst score I have ever had the displeasure of hearing not as part of a joke.

--Anonymous
replies 575Dec 13, 2017 8:52 PM +00:00

"and the music might have been the worst score I have ever had the displeasure of hearing not as part of a joke. "

---the night is young

--THE GREATEST SHOWMAN
replies 576Dec 13, 2017 11:13 PM +00:00

How soon can we finish this tiresome thread off?

Mary Freakin' Martin, blah blah blah.

Maybe in the next thread we can talk about people who aren't dead.

Just saying.

static01.nyt.com
--DL Fave Jan Maxwell, near her spacious yet affordable co-op apt
replies 577Dec 13, 2017 11:30 PM +00:00

Here I am with some value-priced snacks for one of my many "theatre people" cocktail parties!

Oh, the stories I've heard!

If only you all were invited.

pixel.nymag.com
--Jan Maxwell, Manhattan Plaza resident
replies 578Dec 13, 2017 11:33 PM +00:00

Did I mention there's a terrace? Of course!

La dolce vita! Best wishes with that whole L train drama, darlings.

thenypost.files.wordpress.com
--Jan Maxwell, windswept and yes, rent-stabilized
replies 579Dec 13, 2017 11:37 PM +00:00

Equity is weird. A Tony award that nobody remembers would not be enough. One would really need to be a star. They would not allow Jane Horrocks to do Little Voice in the USA even though the play was written as a vehicle for her.

The engineer is Eurasian, not Asian. He is half European.

Mary Martin was committed to Jenny because it was the project of her fuck-buddy Cheryl Crawford.

--Anonymous
replies 580Dec 14, 2017 2:17 AM +00:00

R580, and yet Pryce wore prosthetics to make his eyes look Asian. Or rather he did until the casting was criticized and they trotted out the "eurasian" defense.

--Anonymous
replies 581Dec 14, 2017 2:29 AM +00:00

Oh, did Cheryl Crawford lap at the Martin muff? I hadn't heard that one. Actually, aside from Janet Gaynor, I don't think we've heard much about Mary's lesbian lovers at all.

--Anonymous
replies 582Dec 14, 2017 2:40 AM +00:00

R581, the character has always been French/Vietnamese. That never changed.

Cheryl Crawford, Mary Martin, Janet Gaynor, Jean Arthur, and a writer whose name I cannot remember were the Lesbian Mafia.

--Anonymous
replies 583Dec 14, 2017 3:00 AM +00:00

The writer was Janet Flanner. The brain finally kicked in.

--Anonymous
replies 584Dec 14, 2017 3:20 AM +00:00

"Eurasian" is just another excuse to deprive actors of color of roles of color. At least they didn't give it to some goddamn Italian.

--Anonymous
replies 585Dec 14, 2017 3:26 AM +00:00

Crawford munched the Martin muff, Martin crushed the Crawford cunt.

--Anonymous
replies 586Dec 14, 2017 4:03 AM +00:00

So I was on a subway last night, and saw a Shen Yun ad that trumpeted a rave from "renowned" Broadway critic.... Richard Connema.

WTF?

--Anonymous
replies 587Dec 14, 2017 9:03 AM +00:00

Who are people talking about here? How old is eveyone?Ahoo

--Anonymous
replies 588Dec 14, 2017 9:13 AM +00:00

Regarding Patricia Routledge not doing "Penzance" on Broadway, she wanted to return to London. The play "Noises Off" was getting ready to premiere in London and she was in the running for the role of Dotty Otley. She probably could have done 6 months on Broadway in "Penzance" and then returned to London because "Noises Off" didn't open until 1982, but I'm sure she wanted her presence in London to audition, maybe to do backers auditions or readings of the play. Anyway, she was the first actress to create the role of Dotty and that was probably more fulfilling than going to Broadway in a role she had already done the previous Summer. I always wondered if they ever considered her for the movie version of Pirates or was Angela more of a box office name?

--Anonymous
replies 589Dec 14, 2017 9:35 AM +00:00

Re: The Band's Visit--the charm is completely lost on me. Can imagine it being better in a smaller space. But not by much.

--Anonymous
replies 590Dec 14, 2017 9:52 AM +00:00

I'm with ya brother

--UGH!
replies 591Dec 14, 2017 9:58 AM +00:00

How much film work had Patricia done stateside, R589?

--Anonymous
replies 592Dec 14, 2017 10:32 AM +00:00
How much film work had Patricia done stateside

Maybe not stateside, but she's been in "To Sir With Love" "Don't Raise The Bridge Lower The River" and "If It's Tuesday This Must Be Belgium" all movies that were played regularly on tv during the 1970s. So people would have recognized her as the "fruity" British actress.

--Anonymous
replies 593Dec 14, 2017 10:51 AM +00:00

Don't forget "To Sir, With Love."

--Lulu
replies 594Dec 14, 2017 11:17 AM +00:00

You didn't learn much reading in school, did you, Lulu?

--IT'S RIGHT THERE
replies 595Dec 14, 2017 11:22 AM +00:00

The new thread, for those who care.

Offsite Link
--Anonymous
replies 596Dec 14, 2017 11:36 AM +00:00

Why wasn't Estelle Parsons asked to do the movie? She's an Oscar winner. And she always wanted to do a musical! Actually, that's true about her. Back in the '70s, I saw her at the Berkshire Theater Festival in Massachusetts doing a new musical based on the life of Colette. The score was by Tom Jones and Harvey Schmidt, and Mildred Dunnock, the original Linda Loman in "Death of a Salesman," played Estelle's mother. I never miss a Mildred Dunnock musical.

--Anonymous
replies 597Dec 14, 2017 12:28 PM +00:00

Let's

--Anonymous
replies 598Dec 14, 2017 12:31 PM +00:00

Close

--Anonymous
replies 599Dec 14, 2017 12:31 PM +00:00

This puppy up!

--Anonymous
replies 600Dec 14, 2017 12:31 PM +00:00

R583, The nationality may not have changed, but the use of prosthetic did. Originally the Eurasian character was Asian enough to make rubber slant eyes part of the makeup.

Then they got rid of them -- so the Eurasian characters was now more European and less Asian.

It still was a crock of shit.

--Anonymous
replies 601Dec 14, 2017 12:32 PM +00:00

OK??

--Anonymous
replies 602Dec 14, 2017 12:32 PM +00:00

🐐 titties

--Anonymous
replies 603Dec 14, 2017 3:05 PM +00:00