When do they leave?
When do they leave?
March 29 2019. Not gone yet. Tearing themselves apart as the lies they were told be the Brexiteers are coming true, and as companies leave the UK and racist attacks on foreigners continue. The UK govt . is a minority one, and needs the support of a protestant party in Northern Ireland to stay in power. The border between the Republic of Ireland and the North has all but disappeared, but risks being imposed if the UK cannot agree to a common customs area with the Republic. A hard border will definitely kick off the war in N Ireland again, but 10 vicious, racist, poe-faced Presbyterians, who are as bigoted as Oral Roberts and Pat Robertson, refuse to have anything to do with such an idea, and are willing to plunge Ireland into war just to prove their Britishness. Strange thing is that over 60% of the Northern Irish voted to stay in the EU. Hilariously, many of these Irish hating Presbyterians have availed of an Irish passport(born on the island of Ireland) to facilitate their travel in a post Brexit EU. You couldn't make this shit up.
A hard border will definitely kick off the war in N Ireland again, but 10 vicious, racist, poe-faced Presbyterians, who are as bigoted as Oral Roberts and Pat Robertson, refuse to have anything to do with such an idea, and are willing to plunge Ireland into war just to prove their Britishness
Arlene Foster is strangely fascinating.
All we need is someone to stand up and say let's leave the EU but stay in the single market for now and maybe repeat the referendum in 5 years. Unfortunately, the Brexiteers have taken the very slim majority they won as permission to leave the single and common market, even though that was not on the ballot. It doesn't help that the Brexiteers really are the most loathsome bunch, Boris, Davis, IDS, Farage and the hideous Foster. The polls about staying in or leaving the EU haven't budged much but the last one I saw suggest the majority do want to stay in the single market; the Norway option, so to speak.
Ceded to the EU on the divorce bill, ceded to the EU on the Irish border... basically, it's just one defeat after another. So just like everyone but the Brexiteers said it would be.
R4 Everyone wants the Norway option because they think that model is what made them so filthy rich when in fact it was all the oil. Staying in the single market without being a member of the EU is even worse sovereignty-wise as you have no say in the rules making up the single market.
The UK's last remaining trump (no pun) card is a 'no deal Brexit' which would be disastrous for all sides.
OP, dear, I think you mean "po-faced". "Poe-faced" is something altogether different.
R7 Well, the EU would just tighten its future budget without the €50 billion in divorce settlements but it would ravage Britain economically for a decade or more. So it would only really be disastrous for Britain and the Irish border. Probably the main reason why they don't want to release the unredacted risk assessment of a hard Brexit.
So less of a trump card and more of a cutting off your nose to spite the face self-nuking option.
R8 Yep was unsure about that-couldn't decise between the river or the writer. Apologies to Edgar Allan!
There must be a country music song about this breaking up and not being able to leave.
Agreed, R6, which is why we should just stay in the EU where at least we have a seat at the table.
Would there be a war about this if this happened a century ago?
No government for almost a year at least in NI because the DUP refuses to countenance gay marriage, and will not allow Irish to be given the same official status as English even though 48% of the population is Nationalist. Viciously anti-anything or anyone that is not Protestant and white. ANd engulfed in the same sex scandals as conservative US politicians.
It doesn't help that the Brexiteers really are the most loathsome bunch
Yes this seems to be the case in both the UK and America. Glad that Canada dodged the bullet.
Then again, when you complain that you are surrounded by idiots, you have to ask yourself how they managed to surround you.
Should have been a bit clearer — I was referring generally to the people in charge currently.
Not specifically brexiteers!
Thank you, Ulster Dataloungers—Iris Robinson is truly DL-worthy!
Speaking of smart Canadians, I love this comment under the article in The Guardian talking about the discrepancy between the promised fairytales and the harsh reality of current negotiations. Nothing like hearing the cold truth from an outsider. Apologies for the preview image.
I am a Canadian. I understand Eu law, subsidiarity, the Treaty of Rome, the four freedoms, etc....The entire Brexit vote was based on delusions, especially British delusions of grandeur and now that Brexit is turning out as expected, the blame by Brexiteers is on "unreasonable European demands". This was not going to involve bringing back the Empire or reasserting the Commonwealth (no offense, but Canada and OZ don't want to be asserted against). It was going to involve destroying the UK's relationship with France which is how, along with its delusional special relationship (puppy dog status to the USA), it punched above its weight.
The facts: the options from day 1 were Norway/Iceland/Switzerland (some exemptions such as the CAP or CFP) but with no say, Canada-Eu which involves reduced tariffs for goods but no free trade in services where the UK has a massive surplus, or WTO like Peru. No amount of histrionic sound bites in The Express or Mail will change that...
There is also the reality that all of the things done at the EU level like atomic safety, aviation safety, food safety etc now will either have to be done by the UK at great expense or with the UK continuing as "associate members" of these agencies which means paying with no say.
Do they still have fish and chips in England, wrapped in newspaper?
Pretty soon it's going to be all they have, r22.
That, and curry.
But at least the DM makes a perfect fish wrapper.
Where are the ranters? This topic usually brings out the UK version of Trumptardery, Brexit must have really shit the bed.
R25 I was just thinking the same thing. There was this one obnoxious DL poster who would always come into every single Brexit thread to inform us that we are all uninformed and that he will now enlighten us with the correct, bias-free facts. And yes, it certainly says a lot that there isn't any ranting here right now.
I stumbled on a quote today that perfectly captures Brexit:
The undefined being negotiated by the unprepared in order to get the unspecified for the uninformed.
So dumb they cannot distinguish the flag of the Irish Republic from the flag of the Ivory Coast
R6 people who want the Norway option don't know that Norway had to agree to most EU regulations in order to have that option. Will the UK be willing to do that?
Lots of medical personnel leaving UK. It now has a huge provider shortage on its hands
100k UK companies now registered in Ireland after Brexit so as to have access to the Single Market. Others leaving or have left the UK
We are not leaving. The government simply has to find a way to convincingly pretend that we actually are.
I fully expect that we will have a Bexit day: some sort of treaty signing, possibly a Festival of Smugness starring Nigel Farage, some soldiers in 19th century uniform and a brass band. However, given the irreconcilable nature of the Brexiteers promises, I expect a massive government crisis, probably next summer following another six months of governemnt infighting. The public will be sick of Brexit by then and just want everthing to settle down.
There are already whispers of Russian influence, electoral irregularities and Cambridge Analytica. They are only going to get louder as the impossibility of a deal hits home.
I’m a lifelong liberal, but I feel truly sorry for Teresa May: she has become PM at the worst time in recent UK history and she is faced with expectations which simply cannot be reconciled. Her own party is split down the middle, and a large proportion of it seems to want a reenactment of the Battle of Britain. See the “Conservative Home”website for evidence of this!
R35 As someone watching this from the continent, I sincerely hope this is what happens in the end. I would hate to see Putin getting exactly what he wants.
R35 I always felt that it was a ploy by Boris and Gove to take control of the Conservative Party and to become top dogs. Boris even affected Churchill's mannerisms. I also blame the EU for not taking on board legitimate anger about overreach, excessive bureaucracy and a democratic deficit, and for not actually tackling these head-on. Somehoe, the UK will be in the single market, else it will become a third world state. Sad.
R36, I hope I am right too! I believe whatI have written is the most likely outcome, but this is a dangerous time for the UK. I feel a great deAl of embarrassment at the Brexit vote: not just the vote result, but the campaign which was based on lies and hyperbole on both sides. And I find it hard to accept that we voted to shred 40 years of painstaking diplomacy which had given the UK an almost tailor-made position within the EU.
It’s also an irrefutable fact that youger generations in the UK feel themselves to have a EUropean identity, which has been fostered by our place in the EU.
May I ask where in the continent you are based? My experience of other countries has led me to believe that they contain their own large Eurosceptic contingents - they just aren’t mad enough to roll over and unleash chaos by having a referendum!!
I also blame the EU for not taking on board legitimate anger about overreach, excessive bureaucracy and a democratic deficit, and for not actually tackling these head-on.
R37 Oh, please. As if we didn't literally adopt the Lisbon Treaty to address exactly those concerns. The "excessive bureaucracy" is your personal subjective opinion and not unlike the Trump regime systematically dismantling US institutions by not staffing critical positions. The EU is not just an office you get candy from, it's a serious international player so of course needs sufficient cadre that can manage its many roles.
But sure, let's squabble amongst ourselves until China comes and eats us alive. We'll see who'll be parroting about "democratic deficit" then.
R37,did you see the “victory” speeches given by Johnson and Gove on the morning after the vote? They were shocked. By their win, and I really believe they never expected to win. Leading the Brexit campaign was just their best route to success in a Tory leadership contest after Cameron left office. I also think that May is only in power because none of the Brexiteers had the least idea how to implement the random mendacious policies they had promised during the referendum campaign. Instead of facing up to their lies, they simply let May take the fall.
I think the UK would survive Brexit, but it would become a different place. For example, the UK would have to reach a trade agreement asap with the US, especially if we don’t have an agreement with the EU. Would the UK, for a very weak position, be able to refuse US demands for US companies to have greater acces to the UK healthcare market? I think not: bye bye NHS!
R38 Central Europe; Melania's cradle, to be precise. The acceptance of the EU is pretty big here because we do cherish the €uro and we're used to living in (con)federations anyway, but the nationalists love Russia and see Putin as a saviour from the "decadent" (read: gay-accepting) West. They're still in the minority, though. The insane GDP growth helps a lot as it's a great distraction. Nationalism is for tough times.
I just read in The Guardian that the anti-EU sentiment is going down all over Europe after their politicians witnessed what's happening to Britain. No one wants that and even France's nationalists abandoned this particular position.
It doesn't matter who or what you vote for now. It's all mass poverty and lower standard of living.
I just read in The Guardian that the anti-EU sentiment is going down all over Europe after their politicians witnessed what's happening to Britain.
Of course, they are being made an example. The truth is, they lose either way. It is austerity and too much immigration either way. Forever.
For example, the UK would have to reach a trade agreement asap with the US, especially if we don’t have an agreement with the EU. Would the UK, for a very weak position, be able to refuse US demands for US companies to have greater acces to the UK healthcare market?
It's a double whammy: the worst possible administration to be negotiating trade deals with and they'll know you don't have much time left before the WTO rules kick into effect so the negotiating position is almost non-existing from the get-go. The special relationship won't matter one bit once money is in play. It's a terrible position to be in yet here you are.
We are not leaving. The government simply has to find a way to convincingly pretend that we actually are.
R35, I'm American so I don't understand the formalities, but didn't the UK already inform the EU that it's leaving? Are you saying that the UK can just rebrand its admission to the EU and the EU will go along with it?
and a bowl of M&Ms with all the homosexual ones taken out!
Cliff Notes on the DUP
We aren’t there yet r44, and the optimist in me says we won’t actually get there. No party will want to be held responsible for the consequences.
The Conservatives have a big problem because their membership believes in Brexit. However, most of their MPs do not want a no-deal Brexit. The party is at rsk of a serious split.
Ultimately, Britain can decide to stay in the EU at any point up until the last moment before we leave. I fully expect that there will be some sort of parliamentary revolt before we leave, especially given the situation in Ireland.
The Brexiteers suggested prereferendum that the Irish border will be no problem, but it is the issue which could overturn everything. No-one wants a hard border in Ireland. However, no hard border between North and south would mean a border between the North and the rest of the UK, and the Unionists won’t stand for that. And even if a special arrangement is created for Northern Ireland, the nationalist Scottish government will ultimatly demand the same agreement for Scotland which voted overwhelmingly to Remain.
At the very least, I think there is a better chance than not that we will remain in the Customs Union and Single Market, but there will be a lot of fighting before that result.
I feel a great deAl of embarrassment at the Brexit vote: not just the vote result, but the campaign which was based on lies and hyperbole on both sides. And I find it hard to accept that we voted to shred 40 years of painstaking diplomacy which had given the UK an almost tailor-made position within the EU.
We're feeling the same sort of thing in the US at the moment, but for us it's even worse as it doesn't just affect international relations but every aspect of the federal government. And it's worse here I think because the people who drank the Kool-Aid still don't realize they've poisoned themselves.
R46, i am not an expert, but everything I read suggests that the UK has not left until the final minute of the two-year notice period (ending in March 2019). The government has enacted Article 50, but that can be revoked. The architect of that Article (a British diplomat) has suggested that that is the case, and there was a case at the UKsupreme court which implied that this was the case too, by declarig that parliament is able to undo Brexit up until the last minute.
This Brit thinks its a complete clusterfuck.
R49, I thought that last year was a sign of a really Special Relationship: Britain got into the shit withBrexit, and the US jumped in beside us by voting for Trump!
It’s a real mess, and I’m not sure which of us is worse off. At least a post-Trump president will be able to try to undo his evildoings, but Britain will take decades to recover from Brexit, financially, politically and diplomatically.
We both have our deplorables. Uk deplorables are quieter about not wanting foreigners, but they are ill-informed by our rightwing press, just as yours are ill-informed by Fox News. .
That might be true, but many of the things Trump is doing now will be very hard to undo. One thing he's doing is appointing judges and they will be in their positions for decades, enforcing their Neanderthal view of the world on cases before them.
We may be able to jump back into the Paris Agreement, but TPP will be gone for good. Many griped about the TPP and some of the criticisms were valid, but the fact remains that it was a triumph of US economic diplomacy and would have meant that the US set the tone for economic development in Asia for decades to come. Now there is a void and let's have three guesses as to whom jumps in to fill it?
Encouraging to read that the British can back out of BREXIT. Let's hope they do so.
I think they should back out of Brexit, but they should be able to control immigration. They are a small island and have had more immigration and have for decades than a lot of European countries.
but they should be able to control immigration.
That's exactly the sort of "have your cake and eat it too" attitude that the EU has no patience for.
Then you do not have nations. What is the point of calling them the "United Kingdom" or "France" - just call it EU or Globalism Mush or Banks
They still have nations. There's still very much a Germany and a Netherlands.
R55, it’s fair enough to say that the Eu has no patience with the UK wanting to restrict immigration, but there also need to be a discussion about Merkel’s actions in encouraging so many immigrants to come to Germany, and then expecting the other countries of the EU to take some of them in. She is expecting Eastern European countries,many of which have zero experience of immigration from outside Europe, to accept thousands of refugees who they never encouraged!
In many ways, her actions were remarkably humane, but she is trying to pass on a burden to others who didn’t ask for it, and i have no doubt that the pictures of a million refugees heading into the heart of Europe in a seemingly uncontrollably rush was a big boost for the Brexiteers too.
They keep saying there are millions more coming, too.
R39 I didn't elect Jean Claude Junker, a Luxemburger responsible as Finance minister for enabling multinationals to avoid paying tax. I also have a goddamned problem about having to pay an "expert" to fit a CCTV system to my home, because it is illegal under EU regulations to have one installed by non-registered technicians. It's a couple of cameras with wires, not some outpost on Mars. Nor do I want my country to be ordered by Merkel to accept tens of thousands of migrants, undocumented and not vetted for security purposes, because she feels guilt over what her countrymen did 70 years back. Europe is great, but no tax integration, nor mass standardisation across the board. I did NOT vote for this.
Here come the old ranters R26 ... See R61
R61 - does your arsehole have a lisp or is just when you're talking shite, dear?
R59, that has nothing to do with Brexit. The UK has been importing Muslims from Pakistan and India for decades, long before Merkel became the German Chancellor. Immigration from Eastern Europe was the problem for Leave voters and the sentiment predates any refugees arriving from Syria or wherever else. And how rich it is for EE dumps to welcome EU money but shirk their responsibilities.
Why is R61 pretending Merkel sent out handwritten invitations to "tens of thousands of migrants"? Just vote for your local right-wing party and kick them out after you've taken your share. How hard can that be?
Exactly, R61. On top of it all, it is anti-democracy. Unelected people from another country making decisions.
[R16] The UK is not in the schengen zone and cannot be and wasn't ordered to take in refugees.
Isn't the Gove/ Johnson plan to turn the UK into a Singapore style tax haven? Does that boil your blood in the same Daily Mail fashion you display in your rant R61?
I think you can be against EU control AND against the untrustworthy Gove/Johnson
So what is your answer to the EU conundrum R698?
R69 was meant for R68 ! tho I imagine this mess could easily drag on til R698 with no satisfactory conclusion.
The answer is tough because the assorted "leaders" cannot be trusted and are not concerned about what is best for the nation
It's supposedly so simple though R71 . Aren't we supposed to just walk away as they need us more? We sail off joyously to unfettered and lucrative trade deals while they choke on their bureaucratic rules and drown in immigrants. The problem with EU haters is they are full of piss and vinegar about the situation but have nothing to replace it with, even after 40 years of seething about how terrible the EU is they have nothing.
R26 's quote is perfect.... The undefined being negotiated by the unprepared in order to get the unspecified for the uninformed.
Well, there is no genuine political organization for the population. It is corrupt politics for the .01% - all of it. Of course they do not have any answers - they never wanted to.
May is in big trouble with her own party. She has hold her position rather long but every day must be a big battle against her own ministers and mps.
All I know is we were doing much better in 2015 pre Brexit vote than now, this is a shitshow of Trumpian proportions, and the Brexit fans ( again like Trump fans ) will not hear that the many dips in living standards and loss of revenue since the vote have anything to do with their beloved Brexit. It's very depressing.
And now it turns out the Impact Assessment Reports don't actually exist. Wasn't there a parliamentary vote on actually releasing them? If Davis knew they didn't exist why did he try to block them being released? It just gets worse, day by day.
Yes I just saw that R76, even the Daily Mail, arch Brexit propagandist, has had to report on the doom ridden forecast from Davis, tho' they downplay the lies of there being an Impact Assessment Report , so much for 'project fear', this is project farce, all to appease bunch of reactionary pensioners.
R61 Fuck off Corbynista. Go live in a socialist workers paradise. Maggie put you bastards in your place.
... and 'Maggie' was unceremoniously booted out on her arse and died demented R79, Tories always eat their own as we are seeing with the present bunch of grotesques.
Yes I left about two years ago. We don't recommend the country anymore.
What is really infuriating about some brexiters especially the ones who are politicians is that they speak as if they are a spokesperson for all who voted brexit. Apparently they can uniquely read the minds of over 17 million voters and declare exactly what all their reasons were for voting brexit and what type of brexit they want. Amazingly their mind reading abilities tell them that every brexit voter holds the exact same opinion and reasons as they do! I voted remain but I know of a number of brexit voters who did not vote because of immigration and would happily sign up for the collective trade negotiation clout of the customs Union. But the more hardline brexiters in parliament insist their interpretation is the only one and have the prime minister in a tight grip. Something will have to give and I can see another general election next year and the fall of the Conservative government.
But has she ever run anyone over?
R83Hard to say but definitely bordering on bull dyke in appearance and manner. Thy type of woman who when you meet her your balls ascend into your chest cavity for protection.
Polls I've seen suggest most English, Scottish and Welsh people want to stay in the single market as well, R85. The single market is not the same as the EU. It's only the die hard UKIP supporters and a few Tories who are determined to drag us out of the single and common market.
Can the leave the EU and stay in the single market?
There must be a country music song about this breaking
how about for the lying Brexiters, Miss Cline's "I Fall To Pieces"
" I would hate to see Putin getting exactly what he wants."
Vlad is getting exactly was he wanted, the dismemberment of the EU and the diminishment of the USA. All thanks to an easily manipulated, moronic electorate on both sides of the Atlantic.
Right. That said, Democracy is definitely better. With a country with only a fraction of the population and land mass of Russia, the UK has an economy over twice the size of Russia's.
Vlad can tug at the weaknesses but his own country is circling the drain as he does so.
[R87] Norway is in the single market but not the EU as I think possibly is Switzerland. Switzerland has freedom of movement anyway. Freedom of movement became a problem in the UK imo because the government had a Liberal interpretation of freedom of movement when they could have implemented the rule of if you haven't got a job after three months you have to leave. It suited uk governments to blame EU rules rather than take some responsibility.
R91 Yep Tony Blair said earlier in the year that they should have limited migration, that with hindsight he got that wrong.
So an agreement not to have a hard border has been agreed between the Irish and British governments. I've referenced the press conference of the Irish govt earlier in the week when things were going south, just to show the difference between the NI politicians and a young, educated broadminded leadership in the Republic. By all accounts the DUP are in paroxysms of rage that the Irish government had the cheek and determination to protect the Republic and the interests of those in NI who consider themselves Irish citizens and EU citizens. Well done Leo, Simon and Helen. Long video, but decent and reasonable people,