Brexit was a huge mistake and it's ruined the UK

Stating the obvious. i know firsthand that shipping goods to Europe is a nightmare now. I curse the utter idiots that voted for Brexit, fooled as they were by pompous buffoons like Johnson, fascists like Nigel Garbage and Putin, who clearly had a hand in swaying the vote through his online machinations.

[QUOTE]Brexit was a huge mistake

I could have told you that before it happened. As could the vast majority of people with common sense.

I voted Remain and live in a city that voted 50/50.

Patronising attitudes like R1 is why people rejected the status quo. Your poor, poor postal costs.

Yes, a truly bad idea that I hoped (against all evidence to the contrary) wouldn't go through. And yet it did.

It's turned out worse than I had expected for the UK, and without any sense of upturn in the future. Contrary to predictions that the UK's divorce would leave the EU would damaged and imperilled, it's weathered the change rather easily. The loss to the EU budget was about 5% (I think the UK was contributing an annual net €19 Billion to the EU - of which they received back €7B).

One report estimates the average Briton was £2000 worse off in 2023, the average Londoner down nearly £3400, and with 2 Million fewer jobs in the UK.

All because 51.8% of voters succumbed to populist fears of Polish tradesmen ruining an image Traditional Britain that was already decades gone?

I'll never forget how many American DLers cheered them on when the vote happened, projecting their own misguided sense of independence onto the cause, which was CLEARLY cooked up by right-wingers and Russia to weaken both the Union and Britain.

I'm in the EU and I hope they return soon as full members. We're stronger together.

[quote]i know firsthand that shipping goods to Europe is a nightmare now.

Of course. I won't buy anything from the UK because the cost and nuisance to receive it in the EU is too much. What had been very easy is now complicated and expensive. But Brexiters were keen to stand up and show that they didn't have any use for the Continent.

[quote] I'm in the EU and I hope they return soon as full members. We're stronger together.

Nah, they can fucking stay out. It’s great now that travel is more difficult but their tourists still fuck up everywhere they go. If they do come back they can adopt the euro, no special exceptions or privileges anymore, and they all have to learn another language.

[quote]Nah, they can fucking stay out. It’s great now that travel is more difficult but their tourists still fuck up everywhere they go. If they do come back they can adopt the euro, no special exceptions or privileges anymore, and they all have to learn another language.

I've travelled to the EU twice this year. It's not more difficult in the slightest.

I voted to remain. It gives me no pleasure to see the disastrous outcome and lost opportunities as a result of ignorance of what people were really voting for.

When it happened there was all that noise and excitement about other countries following suit but you never hear a word about that now after Britain showed us all what a pointless and self-defeating exercise it was.

Sorry R1 and R5, but that argument is ridiculous. Before the sanctions levied against Russia in 2022, Russia's main trading partner was the EU and it would have been counterproductive for them to weaken the Union. In fact, when the first round of sanctions were imposed, everyone assumed that the Russian economy would crumble to dust because they had lost their main trading partner. Had it not been for the rest of the BRICS block rallying around Russia and strengthening their commercial ties, the Russian economy would have unravelled.

Brexit was promoted by the US, because the EU's many regulations prevent American companies from easily accessing the European market, and the UK is America's closest and most subservient subject in Europe - even more so than Poland and Spain, in fact. As Pence correctly said, we're a new market for America with 72 million consumers. Weakening Europe and turning it into a US vassal doesn't benefit Russia, but the neocons - which is why Trump imposed sanctions on Nordstream and Biden has sabotaged it. Now, we don't have anywhere else to turn to. Our fates are ties to America's and if the US collapses, it will irremissibly drag us down.

Yes, Brexit was a huge mistake, but seeing how the EU is committing economic suicide, I would say that the UK might yet find a way to stay afloat when the Union flounders.

Would love to hear from our UK members. Share your anecdotes how Brexit has influenced your day-to-day lives. This is a serious request.

I really don't know much about the entire plan, and I fell a lot of people simply regurgitate what they read in the newspaper, online or see on social media (not doubting the varacity of those channels). Ultimately, how has it impacted the general public?

Please and TIA.

Brexit was popular among Trumpers rather than Americans per se. Very clear it was an anti-immigrant, xenophobic movement promoted by scum such as Nigel Farage with no discernible benefit.

Of course a fucking disaster for the UK, and also a real loss for the EU. We are stronger together, and an EU without one of the “big 3” (Germany, France, UK), is a somewhat diminished EU.

However, Brexit was so acrimonious, the UK being so malevolent and untrustworthy in their negotiations with the EU, that there is absolutely no chance for the EU to open rejoining negotiations for probably a generation, even if a Starmer government wanted it., which they don’t. It would take general consensus across both political parties in the UK for the EU to even consider a new membership application, like in 1974. At the moment, there is no such consensus. The Tories will never admit for a generation they royally fucked up. And Labour who are on the cusp of power, are too scared to alienate the remaining 30% or so of the electorate who still believe Brexit was a good idea. What will happen is the UK will become an associate country, like Switzerland, taking orders from the EU. with zero say in the decisions.

[quote] All because 51.8% of voters succumbed to populist fears of Polish tradesmen ruining an image Traditional Britain

Not just Poles.

And?

Left the UK after COVID for an EU country. It's become a very difficult, unkind society post-Brexit, more like the tensions in America.

I hate what has happened here since Brexit. People only listen to what they want to have reinforced. There are few people courageous enough to challenge it because the atmosphere has become so fraught. There has been a massive increase in hate crimes because all that pent up dislike is spilling over into public arenas.

R2

Not everyone agreed with you. Trump said leave was a great idea. Obama said the opposite. Who to believe?

Trump and Biden both told the UK that they aren't getting a trade deal from the US.

R17 which? the UK?

Texan here (but pretty big UK- o-phile; have visited many times before and after and my son lived there for six months last year) and the day Brexit passed, I turned to my son and husband and said, “this is going to be so much worse than people think” and being appalled at the exit polls showing that many voters had no idea what Brexit truly meant. I think some thought it just meant that the UK would keep their double-deckers or something else superficial.

And I don’t know a single American who supported Brexit as a foreigner - it was such a transparently bad idea pushed by transparently bad actors.

[quote]Not everyone agreed with you. Trump said leave was a great idea. Obama said the opposite. Who to believe?

Obama didn’t just say the opposite. He threatened the UK by saying if they voted for Brexit, they would go to the back of the line in US trade deals.

Trump really doesn’t figure into this. At the time of the Brexit vote, he was on the campaign trail but nobody really thought he was going to win.

[quote]Trump and Biden both told the UK that they aren't getting a trade deal from the US.

Where do you get that idea? Trump was for Brexit. He kept saying, “We’re gonna make some huge trade deals.” He wanted Brexit because he liked the wheeler-dealer aspect of it.

[quote]Not everyone agreed with you. Trump said leave was a great idea. Obama said the opposite. Who to believe?

How about the guy who's not a blithering idiot?

[quote] Patronising attitudes like [R 1] is why people rejected the status quo.

Amen to that. That should be the big lesson of the early 21st century. Instead of listening to people with different opinions, they are being called idiots. Not exactly a practical way to sway them over and reach consensus. Insults and shouting instead of talking and compromising.

So Brexit is suddenly … America’s fault? The infantilization of Europeans continues apace.

Obama was president when that nonsense was being discussed and he did everything but jump up on his desk and say “DONT DO IT!” I felt a sense of dread as the vote approached and disbelief when Leave won. But if it makes you feel better to drag in the universal scapegoat, be my guest.

I might be wrong, but I don't believe that it was all that relevant to UK voters what Americans (presidents or others) thought about Brexit.

Historically, the UK has always had issues with Europe. In the 1970s, when they tried to join the EU’s predecessor, they were rejected twice.

‘Britain is broken.’ Dire poverty could usher in Victorian-era inequality

Next up, Texas secedes from the Union.

Oh, wait, I forgot, Boris and the Russian Troll farm want Californian to secede. They float that idea every years for the last 2 decade or so. Imaging the state with the fifth largest economy in the world suddenly left America. Putin would be popping cork bottles, yet another divide and conquer strategy accomplished.

Who’s this Californian you’re referring to?

Why is there so much deflection to the USA in the replies? The British and the Europeans were the involved parties.

OP- I don’t know if I ruined the entire United Kingdom but it certainly ruined London. London was probably the most important city on the planet until Brexit. Many European citizens have fled London since Brexit.

And yet London is more expensive ever. Why is that?

Oh, that’s right, because Brexit’s goal was to make London more attractive to money from Asia and the Middle East.

Trump:US::Brexit:UK

Indeed but groveling is a great comfort.

UK is not ruined, Boris. I try to visit a couple times a year and love it.

I’ve posted in these threads before so will rehash what I’ve said previously.

Membership of the EU, specifically free movement of people worked for a lot of people including myself. European staff in the NHS etc, as well as a plentiful supply of lower paid staff in the service industry including caring, shop work and cleaning.

A lot of employers were able to pay lower wages because EU staff were prepared to work for them. For a lot of people it wasn’t great.

And then there is public services - housing, transport, health, education, all under pressure and in short supply and wealthy elites telling those missing out we’re lucky to have immigration. The government and local councils are always playing catch up with service provision.

Seeing media personalities complain about having to join a queue at an Italian airport isn’t going to change people’s minds.

An economic union rather than a political union is preferable. Ukraine has shown that the UK outside the EU works fine.

R26 what? This isn’t about differing opinions. People were lied to, deceived and manipulated. That’s an objective fact. I still don’t know how people couldn’t see through the lie they were being sold. The Brexiteers deliberately stirred up a racist, xenophobic and toxic nationalistic frenzy. They also tried to target people’s greed too, promising we’d be much better off. In actuality, that couldn’t be further from the truth.

R31

That will NEVER happen. We get far too much money from the federal government. Secession idiots just like to spout jingoistic bullshit without thinking of the ramifications. No NASA, no military bases, no federal border protection/support.

Just like when Trump won in 2016 in the US and will likely win again this year.

Despite all the wealth and advancement in the US, there is a reason there is a 1% here. Most Americans were just born lucky by virtue of having parents who lived here when their eggs and sperm fused and produced them 9 months later. They did nothing. Most Americans are inherently stupid and lazy and self-centered.

Our backwater, boorish ways have come out since 2016 and we're actually regressing as a society now that it's all out there.

Many cities are lovable when you blow in for a few weeks to a nice hotel or apartment, up for adventure, with a pocket full of credit cards, R37.

London, like NYC, has an inescapable hardness, where everything requires a lot of effort, and that's after the insulation. It's a city where no matter how much one has, how much one has achieved, there's always someone at the ready to grind your face in what you don't have, to remind you of what you lack and your shortcomings generally. In boom times (for some) that's easier to live with than when health systems and other structures narrow services and become more complicated, when the sense of any mobility has been removed, when the economic growth forecast is that it might rise as much as 1% by the end of 2026.

Living in, working in, availing yourself of the local services in a city is much different for tourists than for residents.

Perhaps short term, but I think in few years EU will be over.

R43 So true.

San Francisco here and people think it's an *AMAZING* city because they saw a row of pretty Victorians they saw on Full House, ate clam chowder at Fisherman's Wharf, and got to experience how *walkable* of a city it is because they walked everywhere from their hotel/Airbnb (i.e. a few blocks max).

In reality, locals are highly insular too (especially the gays), competitive, and stressed. Everything is literally a competition with someone else as is the reality when you cram millions of people from all over the world into a place with limited capacity for them all. The tech industry further pushes this as bouncing around is expected (move on to move up) so people are always competing with themselves too.

Everything is expensive just because there is demand and local politics capitalizes on the wealth of locals and their *desire* to be *liberal.* People end up never leaving their little bubble of the Bay Area surrounded by people they're "like" but still compete with.

Even people from LA who have similar issues think its heaven. I just have to laugh. Try living here.

All of this was an inevitable outcome.

I don't understand why anyone is surprised.

It was ALWAYS going to turn out this way, yet people are SHOCKED, I tell you, SHOCKED?

r37, you don't live there.

[quote]All because 51.8% of voters succumbed to populist fears of Polish tradesmen ruining an image Traditional Britain that was already decades gone?

Meanwhile over in the EU:

The Brits, of which I once was one, are some of the most beaten down humans on the planet. They then voted to be beaten a little harder. I attribute it to a form of Stockholm syndrome. My relatives who live there can't step an inch of their lines or it all comes crashing down. It's painful to visit them.

I remember the shocked looks on all the faces of Brits living in Spain when they found out they had to leave that country immediately after voting 'Yes' to Brexit. Sorry, R26, but you can't fix stupid.

I am from EU and it is a failed project, everyone seems to hate it. It only serves big corporations and corrupted politicians. Brits might have a hard time now, but in few years from now they will say: I told you so.

I remember reading an article how British dairy farmers were mad because the UK had to buy cheese from France. So I can understand, with a threat to your livelihood, how you would vote Leave.

This end of this video (well, the whole song, really) parodies when Britain first entered the EU. Good for a laugh.

[quote] I remember the shocked looks on all the faces of Brits living in Spain when they found out they had to leave that country immediately after voting 'Yes' to Brexit. Sorry, [R26], but you can't fix stupid.

No one had to ‘leave immediately’ FFS. The referendum was in 2016 and Britain didn’t leave until 2019.

Why lie about things?

And there are plenty of British people still living in Spain.

It's a symptom of American egomania that they seem to think than anything that happens around the globe must have been caused or hastened by America.

Ukraine War? Cause of NATO and America

Brexit? Cause Obama was not as nice and Trump something something

Israel? America gives them some money for military equipment so it's all Biden's doing

It's childish and boring and bespeaks an ignorance of the world.

[quote] I remember the shocked looks on all the faces of Brits living in Spain when they found out they had to leave that country immediately after voting 'Yes' to Brexit. Sorry, [[R26]], but you can't fix stupid.

No one had to ‘leave immediately’ FFS. The referendum was in 2016 and Britain didn’t leave until 2019.

R53 - They had to leave immediately after Brexit, for which they voted in 2016, went into effect in 2019. They had 3 years to figure out the impact of their actions and they were STILL shocked, SHOCKED when the clock ran out.

FFS - Stop being an apologist for ignorant people, but thanks for proving my point that YOU CAN'T FIX STUPID.

[quote] [R26] what? This isn’t about differing opinions. People were lied to, deceived and manipulated. That’s an objective fact.

R39, my post was indeed not about differing opinions. My post referring to R3 was about patronizing and vitriolic styles of debates. Sure there was lie and deception. But if I keep telling you over and over that you are completely gullible and an idiot for believing these deceptions would you actually listen to me? You would call me a name too, maybe punch me in the face and do the exact opposite of what I want you to do. It's just not the right way to conduct a debate. So, no, it's not about opinion. But it's not about lies and deceptions alone either.

Honestly, what a bunch of hysterical loons on this thread! I voted to remain in the EU, spent quite a while after it enraged by the decision to leave, but more and more the hostility seems absurd. I still think Brexit was a mistake, but the anger that that decision was reached is even more ridiculous. Britain held a democratic vote and honoured the result. Fini.

And life has gone on. Neither the Eu or the UK are going anywhere and both need each other. If anything, Russia has brought both sides closer together than for decades, because Britain remains a major military and diplomatic power, which frequently acts faster to bolster the defence needs of Eastern Europe (and Scandinavia) than other powers such as the current hesitant German government seems able to manage.

Brexit was a mistake, but both sides have moved on and are finding new ways to cooperate. That will only accelerate this year when Britain gets rid of the Conservatives and usher in Labour. There will be no return to the EU any time soon, but expect bilateral agreements on many fronts, starting with all the easy agreements like Erasmus.

Like all divorces, Brexit was painful and highly emotive and provoked the most chaotic period of UK politics in my lifetime, but it’s done now, and both parties are finding a way to live together. It remains to be seen how much economic damage it does to the Uk. Divorces are expensive things, but they also give people the freedom to be who they really are.

Love you, r57! Just for bringing sanity back to the table.

For those on this thread who love to be cuckolded by Brussels, let me suggest that you pack up and hop the Channel on a one-way passage.

No shit Sherlock

Funny how the British lefties still long to be a part of the EU as it lurches to the far right.

[quote][R53] - They had to leave immediately after Brexit, for which they voted in 2016, went into effect in 2019. They had 3 years to figure out the impact of their actions and they were STILL shocked, SHOCKED when the clock ran out.

Why lie? No one had to leave immediately. There were a tiny minority who didn't complete the paperwork required but even in those case they were not deported.

Like Trump, Brexit was a bill of goods sold on a false premise. Both countries have (mostly) regret how their reactionary votes took their country down a very bad path.

[quote]It's a symptom of American egomania that they seem to think than anything that happens around the globe must have been caused or hastened by America.

Is this in reply to to R11? I don't know if they are American, but the idea that Brexit was the fault of the U.S. is ridiculous.

Mass migration and the ongoing islamization of the UK and Europe are the biggest mistakes and will lead to their demise as liberal, secular democracies. I hope they are enjoying their dhimmitude.

[quote]I remember the shocked looks on all the faces of Brits living in Spain when they found out they had to leave that country immediately after voting 'Yes' to Brexit. R49

[quote]No one had to ‘leave immediately’ FFS. The referendum was in 2016 and Britain didn’t leave until 2019. R53

R53 is right, if underselling the generous.amount of time Brits were given to get their paperwork in order

UK citizens living in Spain were granted a long period to reconcile their rather simple requirements for residence and work permits, to 31 July 2021. Of course many delayed doing anything to the last moment or opted against Spanish residency because they didn't want tax liability if they lived more than 183 days in Spain in any rolling year.

Thanks R66.

I don’t know if the ‘leave immediately’ poster is just lying or has a false memory.

You've made your bed, now feel the pain...

R26/R53/R56/R62/R66/R67 are completely FULL OF $h!t and/or are the ones with faulty memories or who are outright LYING:

No R69, look at the fucking date on your article posted as evidence of your mistaken argument: 31 march, 2021

That's [bold]5 years after the referendum vote. And 14 months after Brexit was scheduled to go into effect[/bold]. If Spain had a financially interest in dealing with dizzy, busy Brits who couldn't get a simple residence permit application or work permit application in some state of process in more than 5 years, whose fault is that? They didn't even need the papers in hand, only to have applied for them.

You can't claim claim anyone was swept up in the suddenness of a decision that was a certainty for 5+ years, and it's deadline extended and conditions relaxed more than once.

No was was tossed out of Spain the day after the Brexit vote. Your own article states that almost 2000 days later, the deadline was still was still being extended for applications for Spanish residency or work permits 5 years and 2 months later without any violation of Schengen rules being filed.

5 year and 2 months and counting is not being thrown out if the country overnight. It's not a sudden surprise. At that point it's down to dizzy, lazy bitches who can't be bothered to find an hour to spend filing their applications in a local Spanish police station. It's not a tricky thing to do.

OP is delusional.

Here's a video of R70, who cannot face reality and is living in denial:

R41 " Most Americans were just born lucky by virtue of having parents who lived here when their eggs and sperm fused and produced them 9 months later. They do nothing"

You can always count on Brits to have zero self awareness. Hilariously thick dolts .😂

[quote]Who’s this Californian you’re referring to? Why is there so much deflection to the USA in the replies? The British and the Europeans were the involved parties.

Connect the dots Sherlock. Putin wins by divide and conquer. The smaller each country is, the more powerful he becomes. If California were to leave the US, it would be a major blow to the US economy as well as power structure. The same goes for Brexit. Only that seems to have worked. Get the people to fight amongst themself, they do the work for you. All you need is to plant a few seeds on social media.

A majority of British voters now believe the split was a mistake.

As an objective observer from the US I didn't expect UK voters to actually believe the Brexit arguments because they were mostly bogus and the ramifications of leaving the EU appeared to all be negative.

A cautionary tale for all the nationalist/populists here in the U.S. The republican candidate for president wants to tariff us into a Brexit of our very own making…

[quote] both sides have moved on and are finding new ways to cooperate

The EU and UK had irreconcilable differences that made both unhappy. The EU tried to save the marriage because those countries were afraid of relationship change. When the marriage couldn’t be saved, the EU became extremely vindictive, even though they were better off without the UK hindering them from fully choosing their desired path. Now with the moment of separation firmly in the past, they can be friends and find new ways to cooperate. The UK being worse off economically doesn’t negate these things.

What a shitty, qualitative assessment r78.

It's not as if the EU is doing that splendidly either.

The UK was always an ambivalent member with one foot out. It’s all or nothing, bitches!

(But I do somewhat miss you lot..)

R78 Dumbest argument I heard in a very long time. Take a bow.

[quote]The UK was always an ambivalent member with one foot out. It’s all or nothing, bitches!

In fact. They kept their currency rather than switching to the Euro.

O actual reveal—we knew it from the mid-50s TBH.

Corrected:

Op, no actual reveal—we knew it from the mid-50s TBH.

I think it was the gay Luxembourg Prime Minister who said "The UK wanted to be inside the EU with lots of opt outs, now it wants to be outside the EU with lots of opt ins".

Of course had Tory moderates and Labour been willing to vote for Theresa May's deal which was the best possible option - effectively single market access without freedom of movement - then we'd all be better off, but no. Lifelong anti EU campaigner Jeremy Corbyn got to deliver a hard Brexit and an 80 seat Tory majority.

They'll be back in the customs union/EEA as soon as the Brexit cultists are out of power.

[quote] I think it was the gay Luxembourg Prime Minister who said "The UK wanted to be inside the EU with lots of opt outs, now it wants to be outside the EU with lots of opt ins".

It’s rational to want to want to find the optimal point to maximize benefits while minimizing the strings attached, with weighting for which is more important.

Yet they acted most irrationally, didn’t they?

[quote]The UK wanted to be inside the EU

Pics please.

[quote]The UK wanted to be inside the EU. Pics please.

Bossy bottoms. Big Bush supporters.

Well I’m just glad the UK didn’t adopt the generic and boring euro. Pounds Sterling sounds so lovely and regal. Did you know bids at racehorse auctions are denominated in guineas even today?

Americans raised on Downton Abbey think most Brits sit around sipping tea with Lady Mary. The realty of 21st century UK ,the people who voted for Brexit, is quite different.

R92: Bigot!

“Americans raised on Downton Abbey think most Brits sit around sipping tea with Lady Mary”

[quote]The realty of 21st century UK ,the people who voted for Brexit, is quite different.

That photo. Would you describe all the Europeans wanting stricter immigration laws bigots as well?

Hey r74, want to try again, this time actually responding to the text you quoted?

Britain isn't like many other European countries in terms of immigration and integration.

A lot of British Asians and Africans voted to leave the EU - they didn't see the benefits of free movement for white Europeans when their own family members didn't get the same freedoms.

[quote]Bashir says he and his followers want a fair immigration system that does not discriminate against “auntie from Pakistan”. He does not want an influx of low-skilled workers from the EU into a jobs market already overflowing with low-skilled Asian workers. “Look, I’m not saying close the doors, but we need to manage this migration,” he says.

I know everyone wants to live in a polarised world these days but it's easy to admit people voted to leave the EU for a number of different reasons, that they weren't all stupid and racist.

Is it time for the spotted dick jokes yet?

Pudit in your (Yorkshire) puddin’

I watched a couple of documentaries on this recently and the overall impress I got was that the people were much worse off and many were regretful of voting to leave and they believe they were sold lies - but the oligarchs got what they wanted.

I'm curious what the oligarchs got r101. I got the impression the rich mainly wanted to "remain" and the poor, or poorer, wanted to leave. But maybe that's wrong.

I believe it was business regulatory changes and relaxations R102. I watched the documentaries about 6 months ago so I'm not 100% sure. The oligarchs/business barons behind all of the push to leave the EU sold the British people lies. I'm just reporting what I learned - I have no side in this. I'm not British.

That wouldn’t explain why the Tory right was so pro-Brexit, r102. The ultra-rich who were for Brexit (and still are) had one aim: free themselves of the shackles of EU regulations, most of which limited their ability to do as they wished, setting up monopolies to further guarantee stellar profits while selling cheap goods and services at the higher prices. They were smart enough to strategize communication so that the main point in all this for the poor was that leaving the EU would put paid to freedom of movement, opening up the job market and thus guaranteeing higher wages, plus the enormous porkie that the NHS would benefit from all the money that would no longer be going to the unelected EU fat cat bureaucrats.

It was mainly the middle-ground entrepreneurs, the mid-size and small-size concerns that were mainly against Brexit.

There are 2 different things here.

The concept of the UK being outside of the European Union and sovereignty, impact on trade, dual nationality, Northern Ireland, immigration levels etc

Then there's the quality of the government delivering that. Theresa May did her best and had she won a big majority in 2017 then we would have had her deal which was the best deal possible, Unfortunately we had 2 dreadful oppositions - the Tories who didn't think any deal was acceptable and the Labour Party, a pro European party led by a pro Brexit anti NATO anti West nutjob.

I voted Remain but as a democrat the idea that we could just disregard the poll result and have another vote was ridiculous. And then there was Corbyn's 2019 election offer that as PM he would renegotiate Theresa May's deal, put it to a referendum to leave on those terms or remain in the EU and then be neutral during the campaign, despite countless Labour MPs saying they would campaign against the new leave deal.

I suspect a Starmer government will start moving towards closer working with the EU and maybe go into a second term election with a pledge to join the customs union and maybe revisit May's deal which was the benefits of the single market without free movement of people.

[quote]In fact. They kept their currency rather than switching to the Euro.

They were hardly the only ones.

[quote] Unfortunately we had 2 dreadful oppositions - the Tories who didn't think any deal was acceptable and the Labour Party, a pro European party led by a pro Brexit anti NATO anti West nutjob.

Yes, r105, it was the worst possible nightmare. I could understand where the recalcitrant Tories were coming from (they’ve always been exceptionalist and sovereignist cunts), but Corbyn was truly unfathomable. So utterly unreconstructed in his mid-20th-century Marxist view of the working class that he didn’t realize that leaving the EU would leave these same workers exposed to a ruthlessly Tory-leaning, anti-working class system. The best we can say about Corbyn is that he’s not the brightest spark, and his mouldy old fossilized ideology was making his decisions for him.

Interesting that Americans are seen in this thread as pro-Brexit or gullible enough to believe Downton Abbey shows a true slice of life.

[quote] Interesting that Americans are seen in this thread as pro-Brexit

That’s completely understandable that Americans would be. What’s a mystery is why any Americans would be upset that it happened.

Once Great Britain is a decrepit theme park managed by cosplay cartoon characters. You should charge admission.

Did I say I was upset? I think it's inteeresting how wrong you folks can get it, see Brexit.

Speaking of Northern Ireland. Does the compromise they settled on work?

Yes, but it's given the Republic of Ireland a load of problems it didn't ask for.

In what way, r113?

Girles, girles, EU is a shitshow now, UK lost nothing by leaving it, it is old news.

R115 = Ahnold

[quote] Not everyone agreed with you. Trump said leave was a great idea. Obama said the opposite. Who to believe?

Uhh, Obama? Are you for real?

It's not the only huge mistake that's ruined the UK...

A lot of people were like the Bernie bros - they wanted their protest vote and relied on responsible voters to vote Remain. It was so entitled wanting and expecting it both wayss.

Oh, now they’ve figured it out…

Protest votes have real life ramifications. A protest vote works only if you are part of a small minority and will not affect the election results.

I'm going to hope and pray that nobody, absolutely nobody, in Britain voted for any reason so stupid as "Trump said it was a good idea." Seriously, if anybody voted for that reason, please punch yourself in the dick a thousand times and then throw yourself off a building.

[quote]"Trump said it was a good idea."

Reminds me that bonkers grinning competition-winning ex-PM Liz Truss is now doing the rounds to sell her new 'book.' Interviewed, she said she wants Trump to win the election because when he had power 'the world was safer.' OK then Liz. Controversy sells, and here I am referencing you, but not close to in a good way.

Truss was opposed to Brexit. She campaigned to remain. She used to be a traditional centre right liberal - conservative on economic issues, liberal on social issues. Truss voted to legalise abortion and gay marriage in Northern Ireland and defended those votes when she campaigned to become Tory leader.

She's become radicalised by her failure as PM and is bearing a grudge against those she saw responsible for her downfall, including Biden. Being pro Trump also guarantees a future income from that wing of the Republican Party when she stops being Liz Truss MP

Her support for Trump is also completely at odds with her stance on Ukraine. Totally batshit.

No R122, nobody voted in favour of Brexit because of that. Most people supported Brexit for three equally stupid reasons that are much older: "foreigners are to blame for everything that is wrong in our lives", "Britain is still an empire and Europe is holding us back" and "Centrist and so-called Leftist millionaires claim to support the EU, so we're going to listen to the Conservative neoliberal billionaires and vote to leave it!".

As you can see, arrogance, ignorance, imbecility and puerile self-delusion do not make a good combination.

R125 - have you ever met any Brexit votes in real life and talked to them?

Leaving the EU would cause more economic damage to the UK than if it never joined the union to begin with. Many economic and trade agreements and methods of business that were advantageous while in the EU now have to be completely reconsidered.

Border checks on goods arriving from the EU come into effect today. So far it will affect meat, plants and flowers. Businesses are already saying that it is massively bureaucratic and will be expensive to implement. The costs will inevitably be passed on to the consumer. Thanks, Nigel!

Freedom isn't free.

There haven’t been border checks until now?

Have you heard of Google R130?

They're about to get hit with ESTA-like electronic visas in the EU later this year, which require biometric registration at their first border entry. The lines will be terrible. They're waiting until the Americans go home after the summer to do it.

Huge act of self-harm that's costing this man's business £200-225 a year. 20 year mistake.

UK is a cesspool

England prevails!

R83- That and continuing to drive on the wrong side of the road.

[Quote] voted Remain but as a democrat the idea that we could just disregard the poll result and have another vote was ridiculous.

Being democratic doesn’t mean everything has to be decided by a majority of a popular vote. Two reasons.

One is, there’s simply too much to decide, of course.

But another is, some issues are just too important to leave to a referendum, too complex and liable to be got wrong by the majority of voters, many of whom will not understand the issue or be subject to manipulation.

One of the first time white people had to face the consequences of their racism. Sucks to suck.

In the meantime, in the real world, EU-UK relations are fine, and the EU is extremely keen on building links with the next generation of Brits (and the Labour Party, which will be in power in a few months).

Sunak rejected the offer, r140. They also are dumping refugees on Ireland as a means to get their inhumane Rwanda transports off the ground l.

R141, I know the offer was rejected. It was rejected by Starmer too. However, given that so many on this thread seem to think that EU-UK relations are abysmal, it’s an interesting sign that the EU is thinking differently. Starmer and Sunak both rejected the offer because they favour making agreements with individual countries, since EU immigration into the UK has always been disproportionate to the numbers of Brits emigrating to Europe.

Regarding Ireland, Britain has no power to dump refugees/immigrants into Ireland. However, it also cannot stop anyone crossing the internal border between Norther aireland and the Republic, since both the Republic of Ireland and the EU insisted, as part of the Brexit Agreement, that the border should remain open inder all circumstances.

This is why people are finished with you.

[quote] This is why people are finished with you.

Link?

[quote] But another is, some issues are just too important to leave to a referendum, too complex and liable to be got wrong by the majority of voters, many of whom will not understand the issue or be subject to manipulation.

Which is certainly an argument not to have the referendum in the first place. But it was obvious that once the idiotic referendum was done for silly grandstanding reasons, and went the "wrong" way, the government was doing everything in its power to simply pretend the result hadn't happened. And that is actually a very different situation, and in the end just unsustainable.

Oh Gawd, we'd much rather deal with the EU than the U.S., that will never change.

LONDON ― It should be a dream Brexit scenario for the City of London: a chance to break away from the EU and move closer to the U.S.

The square mile has been offered the opportunity to modernize with New York and immediately reap the benefits of a faster-moving financial system, rather than wait around for the slow-churning bureaucracy of the EU.

But, as has proved the case several times in the recent past, the City seems reluctant to take advantage of this particular potential Brexit dividend. Its denizens would rather stick with the EU, even if the whole point of leaving the bloc was to be able to go it alone on financial rules.

It fears potential for disruption without the EU on board, given the amount of business that still function across borders.

This time, the qualms center around the technical issue of securities settlement — or how quickly shares are exchanged for cash.

The U.S. will move from a two-day to a one-day cycle by May, in a bid to make markets safer by freeing up cash and reducing the risk that the other side of the trade goes bust.

But the American plan has created a Brexit flashpoint between the U.K. and EU, where a two-day window is still the norm, because Britain has the means to move faster without 27 other countries in tow.

And a government-backed report, published Thursday, said the U.K. should be willing to go ahead on its own if the EU is not ready by the end of 2027.

[quote]One of the first time white people had to face the consequences of their racism. Sucks to suck.

Fortunately the EU is getting tough on immigration too.

R139 you are stupid. White elites still rule the world. Not only WASP are white. Ashkenazi Jews are white too. So are Russians. It is just white serfs that are losers along with colored people.

The UK is fucked for good. It’s the armpit of Europe overrun with Muslims.

Here's your link, you smug asshole. The world is tired of your supercilious schtick and it's working less and less.

R150, the Rwanda bill gives the UK government the right to deport migrants. That’s the UK’s decision. The UK government has no ability to dump migrants on Ireland, but under the Brexit agreement neither the UK nor Ireland can close the Irish border.

The decision on how to handle migration to Ireland is a decision which only the Irish government can make. Given the reaction of Irish voters to the arrival of migrants in the kind of numbers the UK has been used to for decades, I’d bet on the Taoiseach reaching a decision on that fairly quickly.

What you're leaving out is that these migrants crossing the border from Northern Ireland into Ireland cause tension about the open border, which is a hallmark feature of the good Friday agreement. Sunak is loving this. Unionists are loving this.

Bertie Ahern sticks it to r151 better than I can.

Prime minister of Poland says ‘it’s better to be in the EU’ as he argues GDP per capita will be higher in his country than the UK by 2030.

[quote] What you're leaving out is that these migrants crossing the border from Northern Ireland into Ireland cause tension about the open border, which is a hallmark feature of the good Friday agreement. Sunak is loving this. Unionists are loving this.

I’m happy to discuss that if you like. The UK (under the lamentable Boris) wanted to have the ability for both the UK and the Republic to decide to monitor the border as much as they wished (which would have stopped the necessity to treat Northern Ireland differently from the rest of the UK), but Dublin and the EU insisted that the border remains open. And they got their way, which is why Northern Ireland has a closer relationship with the Eu than the rest of the UK does. A consequence of that is that the Irish now find they themselves cannot close the border. So of course the Unionists are loving this - they have been proven right, and the Irish public can see that too!

The UK receives a flow of migrants across the Channel from France. Regardless of the reasons which have led these migrants to cross the Channel, once they hit the shores of the UK, the UK has responsibility for them. Why should it be any different when migrants pass from the UK to Ireland?

Fuck off.

Ah well, if your credible sources are Rees-Mogg (who is about as representative of the UK as Lauren Boebert is representative of the US) and Bertie Ahern(!), then sensible discussion probably isn’t your strong point, so I’ll desist.

Thoughts and prayers - have a nice day.

The Conservative/Tories are English Capitalists who have run the country forever. More interested in low taxes, profits and land ownershi.

They are the ones who took the UK out of the EU to increase their own profits at the expense of everyone else.

Time for them to be a minority party for a while.

Rees-Mogg was a minister. Nice try. Why do British people have such a hard time taking responsibility for themselves and their government?

R1 UK is still in Europe

r160, technically, but not in the EU. They were specific in their propaganda that they would not toe the Continental line.

Pity they had to drag Scotland with them.

You the US please ship dental equipment to the UK tariff free ASAP

I’m an American. - Please send Ozempic and ammo!

There are local elections in the UK today. It will be interesting to see how badly the Tories lose.

The Tories are trying to distance themselves from their toxic brand.

Why are migrants so determined to reach the UK? Why not stay in Ireland or France or wherever they land on the continent?

R166, the English language is a big draw, plus the fact that the UK does not have a policy of compulsory identity cards, which are mandatory in much of mainland Europe. It makes it easier for migrants to get work even before they get leave to remain in the country. This is much harder when you have an ID card system.

Also, despite the usual D/L denunciations of Britain as a racist hell-hole, most migrants integrate into society quickly, and feel at home here.

Yeah the Brexit vote was fucking stupid. The depressing thing is that, if a vote were held today, remain would easily win. Not that we'll get a chance to rejoin.

[quote]most migrants integrate into society quickly, and feel at home here.

They integrate quickly into their own ethnic enclaves...and feel at home there.

They do this everywhere.

Not a mistake. It was to show you everything that was wrong with the UK just like we got stuck with Trump to see everything that was wrong with the US. When this is all over we will have fixed most of the problems and end up being better countries.

R161 EU and Europe are two totally different things

Once again, European whites and that includes of course, the trashy inbred Brits, have shown how well they can maintain their little quaint countries so well, while we ignorant Americans lurch from crisis to crisis

[quote] Also, despite the usual D/L denunciations of Britain as a racist hell-hole, most migrants integrate into society quickly, and feel at home here.

The victims of the Rochdale child sex ring would like a word if you don’t mind.