Speaker Johnson’s flip-flop on Ukraine

I’m wearing flip flops as we speak

another dumb chump like all the other GOP reps in congress

Supposedly they were given a secret briefing that connected China, Russia and Iran. A holy roller like Johnson might not be looking forward to being ruled by communists or Muslims.

Yes, R3, PLUS his son is now in the military and MJ is a-skerred fer him. Cain't have MAH boy put in harm's way, naw!

The Republican Party is in the midst of turning from a globalist party into a nativist party. Johnson I assume grew up under Reagan and GHWB. Those ideas, and the Bush doctrine “axis of evil”, are dying in the Republican Party.

I thought part of the reason was due to MTG motion to vacate. She will need democrat votes to succeed.

It may be the Magaloons pushed him too far and he’s decided the run the House with a coalition of less nutty Republicans and Democrats. About time.

[quote] Supposedly they were given a secret briefing that connected China, Russia and Iran. A holy roller like Johnson might not be looking forward to being ruled by communists or Muslims.

His statement supports that.

You’d think he and other Republicans would do the math and realize which side Trump is on.

Sorry r8

That is not the divide anymore

No us vs foreign boogeyman

The left and the right are both splintering over the same cause - globalism

The far left wants to stop aid to Israel

The far right wants to stop aid to Ukraine

The far left, seeing that the logic for stopping aid to Israel would also apply to Ukraine, are beginning to support divestment. And the same is true of the far right with Israel.

This is going to be the major schism of our era

They are coming into agreement over the same issue

When that happens

PAY ATTENTION

It is a major sea change

[quote] The Republican Party is in the midst of turning from a globalist party into a nativist party.

In a two party system, especially a greatly polarized one like ours, it’s expected that one party will be the war party and the other party will be one hesitant to get involved in every war that the war party wants to fight. We are an ongoing realignment, with the Democratic Party now being the war party and the Republican Party becoming the anti-warmongering party.

Your little dream must be very comforting to you, but Johnson is shifting in favor of aid to Ukraine which means it will pass. Only the Magaloons are isolationists on the right, because Putin owns them, not because of any fantasy that “globalism” is an evil . Aid to Israel will also pass with bipartisan support, notwithstanding the open antisemitism of some progressives.

The alliance between Putin, Xi and the Ayatollahs is real and all be the lunatics with their own agenda are seeing it.

^all but the lunatics

R10, just stop. The Republican Party might be the “anti-war” party to you, but they’re certainly at war with their own fellow citizens. Have you even gotten out of your troll cave to see what they’re doing to their fellow Americans?

Btw, we are not at war. WE ARE NOT AT WAR. And Dems are not in favor of war you loon.

I hate these fucking trolls.

[quote]the Republican Party becoming the anti-warmongering party.

I guess John Bolton, Lindsey Graham and Mike Pompeo didn't get the memo.

Perhaps Trump found out that Johnson was going to shift on Ukraine and summoned him to Mar-A-Lago to make one last desperate attempt to prevent the change.

[quote] We are an ongoing realignment, with the Democratic Party now being the war party and the Republican Party becoming the anti-warmongering party.

Yes and no.

Both parties were traditionally hawkish (Vietnam was Johnson’s war) but the Democrats had prominent antiwar flank - doves. Remember the dove flank is what provided for the rise of Obama.

The American right has not had a significant antiwar flank since America Firsters during WWII. Even Goldwater supported Vietnam.

But I would make a major distinction

The far righters are antiwar because of they want isolationism. The far lefters are isolationist because of they are antiwar. But they are finding that many of their values align.

[quote] Democratic Party now being the war party

Biden, famously, ended the war in Afghanistan and took the political hit for it.

Besides, there's a huge difference between supporting an ally who was invaded versus actually invading and an occupying a country like the Bush administration did.

I don't care why he did it -- I'm just glad he did.

Something tells me Johnson had a rude awakening. I feel like he feels this is just way too much for him to handle and will not be sad if he is ousted. Also Trump is losing it so God only knows what he said or spilled to johnson.

"Oh, yeah, well you're fat!"

Trump has done wonders for the level of Republicans' discourse, hasn't he?

(Derrick Van Orden is a GOP rep from Wisconsin.)

I say Dems should work with Johnson to pass all of budget items, and then wait until the election to see if Dems can get the house back.

There is no”isolationist” wing in the Republican Party. There is a small group of Putin boot-lickers masquerading as isolationists, but this nauseating display is too much for all but the most dedicated magaloons. Trump’s influence over the GOP is at its lowest when it comes to dealing with Putin because they know he’s in Putin’s pocket.

[quote] MCCONNELL: "Here's the political reality: if you think the fall of Afghanistan was bad, the fall of a European capital like Kyiv to Russian troops will be unimaginably worse, and if stalled American assistance makes that outcome possible, there's no question...where the blame will land: on us."

Note that the Putin boot-lickers masquerading as isolationists are not isolationists when it comes to the Middle East. Their isolationism ends at there’s a limit to how much of their loyalty Putin can buy.

[quote] Note that the Putin boot-lickers masquerading as isolationists are not isolationists when it comes to the Middle East.

You really don’t see the difference between giving money to help out your best friend (Israel) versus being asked to provide enormous long-term financial support to a stranger?

R24, who is the stranger? I don’t see us supporting any strangers. And I can’t believe I’m on the same page as Mitch McConnell, but what he says is true. Putin would love to mow down Kiev and keep going. He’s a huge threat to us and the world.

I’d argue that there hasn’t been a serious isolationist movement in the US since the 1920s History has shown that the America First isolationists before WWII were mostly Nazi sympathizers and paid agents, not genuine isolationists.

No European democracy is a stranger to America. Democracies strengthen and protect each other against tyranny.

The argument that we should treat all “democracies” in need equally is really ludicrous though, right?

Now they're complaining that there's no money in the bill for the border. He should just bring back the Senate bill that they rejected.

[quote] The argument that we should treat all “democracies” in need equally is really ludicrous though, right?

What argument? Who has ever said that?

Obviously, each case is complex and unique and must be looked at in light of its own facts.

R28, who said anything like that? Geez pick up a history book and look at the alliances the U.S. has made. Maybe you’ll get a clue re strategy. Probably not though.

r28 = troll

[quote] What argument? Who has ever said that?

I don’t blame you for trying to backtrack away from it. We can agree then that it’s not inconsistent to support our close friend Israel while not also supporting giving away money to other countries.

Not here we can't.

R33… huh?

Double negatives are not a good choice. How about: it’s consistent that we support Israel as well as other countries that align with our international policy and strategy.

Which son is in the military now? The bland white one or the horse hung black adopted one?

Who cares? I'm sharing my porn with both my sons and then we compare notes. And these Nick Skoufatos' videos... Oh my, oh my!

[quote] it’s consistent that we support Israel as well as other countries that align with our international policy and strategy.

You’re back to your argument that countries should be treated the same. It’s not inconsistent to treat our close friend Israel differently than countries with which we don’t have that relationship. Nevertheless, Ukraine can make whatever case it wants to justify giving it money. Congress will determine what additional support to give, if any.

R38, that’s not what I said. In fact it’s the opposite. Is it upside down day today?

[quote] I don’t blame you for trying to backtrack away from it.

Backtrack from what? I never said it.

Go back to English class. Here’s a beet. No potato!

Someone’s very confused, r40. (Pst…. It’s r33.)

Perhaps r33 should wait until 5pm to start drinking.

🥔 🧌 in this thread. She must be entry level to be assigned DL from one of Pootie’s 4th tier operatives.

[quote]You’d think he and other Republicans would do the math and realize which side Trump is on.

They have done the math, and a lot of them choose the same side as Putin-licking Trump.

Mikey wanted that impeachment...

Johnson has so far pleasantly surprised me with his bi-partisanship.

A moderate R from New York called out Large Marge and said he was tired of her show. Seems to me sane Rs in the House know there's no appearing or working with the Dump lunatic fringe, and they're backing away, slowly.

erm, appearing = appeasing

Nobody should have to be scared shitless to do the right thing.

It’s like the supposed TikTok intel that only Congress can see that shows how dangerous it is. If the Ukraine intel is so important and so scary, then the American public should be informed of it so that they can make the proper political decisions based on it. Right now, it’s just some people in Congress saying, “trust us.”

You don't have to go far back in history to understand the wrath of Russia and its leaders. Stalin starved the Ukrainians while he took all of their wheat. Millions died. He purged and killed more millions who opposed him all across the Soviet Union. Putin admires Stalin.

If Ukraine falls, then Russia will aim at Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia. We are contractually bound to come to their defense. That could mean millions of American soldiers heading to Europe. Armenia, Azerbaijan and Georgia could be next on Putin's list. Armenia and Azerbaijan have a border with Iran. We could be engulfed in a world war before we know it.

People who don't understand the need to help Ukraine aren't seeing beyond their own noses. Just wait until their young men and women are beckoned to serve.

He did it to save his speakership this time.

Which one R46?

^^ actually two -- Lawler and Molinaro