How much money would you need to retire right now and live the rest of your life comfortably?

$2 million, although my target is 2.5. The earnings from that plus Social Security should allow for a basic existence until death.

$2 Million. That was my target and where I've stayed for the past 5 years of retirement, withdrawing 4%.

Note, I paid off my mortgage and try to keep my expenses from being too crazy.

I'm also investing in an LTC to ensure I'll have some form of care and keep my assets for a little bit.

A mud hut and some gubbermint cheese.

I am 50, I would need $3 million for a comfortable retire today. Housing and healthcare are my main concerns.

LTC is a huge waste of $

I’m mid-forties and exceptionally fat. I doubt I’ll live to 70. If I had $500,000, I’d happily retire now.

honestly, if you can just own your house outright, you can actually be fine with that $500,000 I expect. Maybe you can't live in some idiotically expensive city, but why should you?

My target is $1.5 million, and I'm at $1.3 now. My house and car are paid off, and I live fairly modestly. I should make it by the time I'm 67 (65 now).

A million in my 401K, $400,000 in the hub's Thrift Savings Plan account, and $800,000 in equity on the house we live in plus two rental properties which so far are pretty much a wash - the income covers the expenses but not much more. The payoff will come with appreciation when they're sold. Apart from my RMDs which will start later this year and most of which will go directly to charity, we take in a bit more than half of what we made while working. I'm 72, he's 74, and we have lots of medical issues, but also have great docs and insurance and that takes the sting out of the cost of medical care. (Good thing, too, because otherwise we'd have been broke or dead years ago. Still, the Boston area has the second or third-highest cost of living in the US, so everything costs more in general.

Since I retired I'm way more cautious about spending money than when I was working. Then I thought that barring some unforeseen situation (laid off, disabled, etc.) you're making money and can keep making more. When you retire, it feels like it's all spending because there's not nearly as much coming in each month. When one of us dies, presumably there'll be plenty left so I feel like I've done my part - we were such financial fuckups when we met that I'm amazed every time I open a financial statement. It's like "Where did all this money come from?" but I still think a lot more about what we spend money on these days than what we buy.

It's not all gloom and doom, though. I just booked a cruise on the Queen Mary.

When I hit $3.2 million (in addition to my house being paid off), I plan to retire. Will probably take on some menial job just to get out of the house and generate a little bit of pocket money), but won't feel obliged to work.

$2 million and I quit now.

For those yet to retire: You will spend less in retirement than you think you will, especially as the years pass. Unless, of course, you are going to live well past your means.

30,000,000-40,000,000

R12 I used to think so and sure, there's a lot you don't have to spend money on post-retirement - clothes, commuting, lunch, etc. BUT: the taxes go up every year, the cost of everything else has gone up a lot over the last year or two (food and insurance among others - stuff you can't skip paying for) and the economy could all tank in a moment with another crisis. Those of us old enough to remember the 70's saw what runaway inflation did to the best-laid retirement plans back then. It could happen again.

I'm 49 and I would guess $1.5-$2M.

I am retiring in a year or two:

Pension: $100K per year

401K: currently $200K, but dividends pay $30K year cash

Roth: $65K

Social Security: waiting until 67, another $40K a year

Cash: $60K, building to $100K by retirement

No debt or mortgage.

401K: currently $200K, but dividends pay $30K year cash

That is meaningless dribble—not how 401(k)s work, much less the ridiculous “return.”

R5, why do you say LTC is a waste of $? I am curious. I was able to obtain an LTC policy thru employer. I am now retired and still pay the premiums. It seems like a decent plan with inflation protection. What do you not like about it?

About a million (on top of what I have saved already, which isn't nearly enough)... I imagine I'll live for about ten or twelve more years, unless something goes really wrong at some point (always possible). I own my home outright, so I just need to pay the property taxes (which are outrageous and always going up), I'd have to pay for my medical (probably have to find some variation of ObamaCare until Medicare kicks in). SOcial Security will kick in towards the end of that providing a little buffer. But yeah. A million AFTER TAX would be enough to sorta coast until I die. I don't plan on living to be a ripe old age though. I will check out in my early 70s I'm sure... if not naturally, then assisted.

3 million but I expect I’ll always have some kind of job. Everyone in my family falls off after they stop working. Either dementia sets in or they go batshit. I need to stay occupied.

I hate these threads.

You’ll never get value for the premiums paid —you could invest $ better on your own to cover costs not include in Medicare etc.

Premiums go up as the coverage goes down. Nope

And that's if the insuror stays in the LTC business, R22. A lot of them have stopped selling LTC insurance because (they say) they lost so much money. I trust, too, your policy covers help at home. Most of the earlier policies do not.

From the NYT: "The private insurance market has proved wildly inadequate in providing financial security for most of the millions of older Americans who might need home health aides, assisted living or other types of assistance with daily living. For decades, the industry severely underestimated how many policyholders would use their coverage, how long they would live and how much their care would cost.

Only 3 to 4 percent of Americans 50 and older pay for a long-term care policy, according to LIMRA, an insurance marketing and research association. That stands in stark contrast to federal estimates that 70 percent of people 65 and older will need critical services before they die.

Repeated government efforts to create a functioning market for long-term care insurance — or to provide public alternatives — have never taken hold. Today, most insurers have stopped selling stand-alone long-term care policies: The ones that still exist are too expensive for most people. And they have become less affordable each year, with insurers raising premiums higher and higher. Many policyholders face painful choices to pay more, pare benefits or drop coverage altogether.

“It’s a giant bait and switch,” said Laura Lunceford, 69, of Sandy, Utah, whose annual premium with her husband leaped to more than $5,700 in 2019 from less than $3,800. Her stomach knots up a couple of months before the next premium is due, as she fears another spike. “They had a business model that just wasn’t sustainable from the get-go,” she said. “Why they didn’t know that is beyond me, but now we’re getting punished for their lack of foresight.”

I’m retired with a bit over a million. I live on $60,000.00 a year and I earn back through investments more than I take out.

I’m trying to figure this out. I’m 57 and owe $58,000 on my house that is worth about $900k today. I have about $450k in IRAs, depending on the day and market conditions.

This should make me feel pretty good but I anticipate being aged out of my job within 18 months. I have the cash to pay off my house but at 3% interest on my mortgage, which I refinanced about 10 years ago to. 15 year fixed, I lthink it is smarter to invest and keep a cash cushion.

I really want to stay where I am but my property taxes are $20k and going up every year. I may have to move somewhere cheaper.

I figure I need $100,000 a year to live comfortably if I stay here with a paid off house but may to move somewhere less expensive. I also like the idea of a reverse mortgage. I have no heirs.

Is saving $200k by 35 good bad or indifferent?

“I figure I need $100,000 a year to live comfortably”

And at 57 your investments add up to $460,000 right now? You are fucked big time—you won’t be able to afford $50K much less $100k per annum.

Ok I ran the numbers and the figure is $40 million. Fortunately I'm almost there at $25 million, age 51. Just a few good years for the market. I expect to grow it to $70 million by my 70s. I'm sure that will be enough.

That which Lizzo’s monthly food bills amount to. I mean her weekly ones, on second thought actually.

R26, that is excellent.

R27, did you miss the part where my almost paid off house is worth almost $1 million? I am a bit nervous about having enough but I can retire tomorrow.

Any kind of calculation is a shot in the dark at the end of the day. A market crashes and hyper-inflation could wipe out every last commenter on this thread.

Fucking keyboard. Market crash.

R30 you’ll need to sell that house to meet your target income…,way off $100k per annum.

R31 hyperinflation—where are you ?—Berlin in 1927?

A vais portfolio that tracks the stock market may go down at various times, but long-term it goes in one direction: up.

*basic

At this point, all I'd need is $1,000, 000. I could live very comfortably but not ostentatiously.

Yes, r30 I realize I will need to sell my house and move somewhere cheaper unless I take out a reverse mortgage to finance my existence in the house.

2 million and I'm done working.

So I just need 1.99 million more to go!

Cue the usual DLers: "how can we save for anything because of our life choices and planning, or lack of thought into them.. but I'm sure some know-it-all will talk about their NY/CA home they bought in 1982 and is now worth $3 million and the 401ks of $4.8 million!"

I thought I could be a cute shop bottom forever! No one told me it wouldn't cover retirement! It's Reagan's fault! And Trumps!!!

R39 we bought in 2000 and still made it to that level…but I take your point

R34 , I'm R31. In my best year, I made $12,000,000.

Wow I wish I had the kind of money some of you have.

R41 no one dumb enough to type that post at R31 would be smart enough to earn $12mm.

Your postings are internally inconsistent —but you be you ☮️

These threads are tough on the stomach. I am probably in the middle of the pack among my peer group. I will be ok and have a small advantage of property and retirement funds that accrued early in my career, when an employer contributed substantially to my 403(b). These were years when I worked for an international nonprofit under the terms of a collective bargaining agreement that has since been revised but is still competitive.

I know many people my age and older have less to draw from. I also suspect our parents may outlive their assets. So I try to stay relatively fit and develop good habits like learning to cook good but healthy foods for myself, how to maintain homes and cars to keep them safe and hold their values, things like these. I will also try to stay technologically fluent in order to be able to book travel and manage my affairs for myself as long as I can. Also manage risk, like not drink or eat too much of the wrong things. And stop driving when it becomes unsafe. And also stay tidy in my appearance and smell nice, so neighbors don’t cringe when I get on elevators or appear in a a neighborhood shop (I will continue living in NYC and part time in New England, maybe Europe if I can swing it financially).

…will also try to stay technologically fluent in order to be able to book travel….

As in booking on the Delta app?

Aim higher, friend.

[quote] I will continue living in NYC and part time in New England, maybe Europe if I can swing it financially

Yeah, this. Some of this seems to be from overpaid people especially in the financial sector who assume the only way to live is in ridiculously overpriced housing in ridiculously overpriced cities spending ridiculous amounts of money on basic necessities. Yes, that may not be feasible for the rest of your life.

See also:

[quote] In my best year, I made $12,000,000.

Great, you should be set for life, unless you blew it all on trivia and nonsense.

“manage my affairs for myself as long as I can…”

GOALS! Dude!

Some signs point to longer lifespans. If you live another 7 years, you may be able to live past 100 through the action of longevity science. This could mean advanced therapies developed through AI, like rapid drug discovery, new forms of structural biology and biotechnology, targeted and precise cancer treatments, gene editing, nutriceuticals that support cellular functions like energy production and also slow the breakdown of cellular components with age, and other advances.

But the quality of these longer lives might be uncertain. We will have to find places to live with good air and light, types of enrichment, some form of community, and have friends. We could end up very isolated if we’re not careful. I don’t want to end up in a human warehouse in some desolate shitty place. I’d like to have options, and maybe nice but simple things, and be near libraries and cultural infrastructure if that’s still viable. Maybe drones will deliver things commonly, and autonomous vehicles will take us places. I hope it all goes ok . Who knows?

^ or you get old, and then you die.

I’ll take my version over yours.

R26, it’s good. Most people don’t have $1,000 saved.

And to the person who was a cunt about dividends in a 401K, those funds can be sold at a higher value once interest rates go down.

That’s not how a 401k works. You don’t sell your investments. ¿Comprende?

A 401k does not pay dividends.

R45 and R47 I mean the next generations of technology that are not yet in common use or even developed. I notice that many elderly people who didn’t adapt with technology can’t use Uber or mobile applications today. So I want to track and adapt after I’m no longer in a work environment that requires me to handle tech and navigate complex environments.

Unless it’s only holding company stock. But, who would manage their 401k with only company stock? —a sucker.

What are you expecting on the next 20 years R53? An inner-ear app? A chip in your armpit. I joke, but what the hell are you expecting to change in that regard before you croak?

Maybe the poster means mandatory distributions? Not the same thing of course but ….??

I own my house with a paid in full mortgage, so if push came to shove I could actually manage on just my social security if I had to.

A 401k pays dividends if it holds stock that pays dividends. And you have to sell your 401k holdings at some point if you want to take cash out of it.

R5 R18 From that I've read, LTCs are best for people with net worths between $1 and $3 million; over $3 million, you self insure, under $1 million, the cost of the LTC is not worth it.

R22 LTC worked for a span of time, but insurers lost money and discontinued offering many of the better coverages. My friend’s parents benefited from the first generation of coverage, and one of them is still drawing benefits at 94 to stay in his home. The coverage paid for retrofitting the home and now pays for caregivers who cook, clean, assist. I think the limit is $400 per day for qualified home care.

I negotiated a high value disability policy when I took the job I have now. At the time, I asked about LTC, and learned that fewer plans exist now because insurers simply can’t underwrite them profitably. That ship has sailed. So my peers and friends are putting money into Health Savings Accounts and financial instruments that they plan to draw on to “gross up” health care spending on things like concierge practices and supplemental policies for certain medications that are sometimes only partially covered by Medicare.

The great unknown is something like trauma, becoming unable to live independently. I think managing risk AND having resources to draw from to cover extra, unanticipated expenses is the best way to age. Managing risk is basically free, but failing to do that can cost you everything.

R58 unless your company requires you to hold their stock, it makes no sense to hold individual stocks in a 401k. Who does that?

Wealthy people

Not in a 401k…they would buy directly, outside of a 401k. Duh.

R57 property owned outright is a huge force multiplier. Removing rent from the equation enables even a modest income like Social Security to go a lot farther.

In some settings, people own a dwelling, but pay lot rent for the land beneath it. My parents’ friends live like that in Florida. Rent and other variable expenses like it have the potential to creep up and strip other options from your budget. So owning a home is a big deal, a “leg up”.

R60 writes: Managing risk is basically free

…which directly contradicts the rest of his post 🤷🏻‍♂️

R64 outside of Hawaii, or mobile home park communities, or certain apt buildings in NYC, a leasehold interest is not common for residential real estate. Definitely the exception to the rule.

Compare vis-a-vis the UK or elsewhere.

If you own your home be sure to pay it off first. It makes a huge difference. Same goes for a vehicle if you have one.

Why, R67? If you have the income to support the payment (and a 3% rate), the mortgage interest deduction saves a lot of money, as do deductible taxes. Renting something like our place would be four times what I pay on the mortgage each month and double what I pay if I included every homeowner's expense a renter needn't pay - HOA fees, repairs, the water bill, insurance, etc.

The renter leaves with nothing. I can sell the house and either buy something else, rent an apartment, or move into an assisted living facility. Likewise a vehicle. Are you going to be driving the car you had in your 60's when you're 80? Unless you have $25-50k (at today's prices) to spend on a new one, you'll be making payments.

R43 - You remind me of the highly successful carpet-layer in Indiana telling an acquaintance of mine Rod McLeod what kind of a financial idiot he is, and that he would never amount to anything, in the comments section of Politico.

If you have to ask, .....

The same civilization that invented dice invented money.statistically 73 is the perfect age to go.The amount of money you need is 73 billion dollars keep slaving till you drop.

R12 is hopefully right. My parents retired well in 1998. They traveled for the first few decades of their retirement. Yet now they spend relatively small amounts. Their home is very nice, but they don’t travel lavishly and they rarely dine out.

If I stay where I am now I could live comfortably on $40K/yr. I would be fine in a 1bed/1bath apartment. If I move where I want to end up, it would probably be $150K/yr.

[quote]401K: currently $200K, but dividends pay $30K year cash

R17 $200K earns $30K annually? What kind of portfolio provides that kind of income?

[quote] A 401k does not pay dividends.

Why do you say that? I’m looking right now at my 401k activity on the investment company website and for each of the stock funds I am invested in (a large cap, a mid cap, and a growth fund) I regularly receive “Dividends on Equity Investments”, which are reinvested every time I receive them.

well i was up near 2 million a few weeks ago until the stock market went down a bit. i keep thinking i could do it on 2 million and once social security kicks in be ok....but I'm still working and making decent money so, i think i'll wait about 4 more years.

R74, it’s an REIT that pays 15% a year.

You think so small, not money heads of cattle, pools of water and fields of corn. 12 houses 13 children a warehouse full of non perishables to trade. A well armed militia to protect your capital and property. A personal ground to air, air defense system. A pile of silver equal to the height of a tall hose and a horse or 10.. A soldier breeding farm to keep your militia young. A well trained medical staff to tend to your every need medical or otherwise.

R61 [quote] ...it makes no sense to hold individual stocks in a 401k. Who does that?

People who eventually lose all their money.

I even diversified ISO and RSU stocks as soon as I could, using them as collateral for a loan and then walking away from that loan when the company went bankrupt.

I think I was one of the few people to make money from Derivium Capital with their 90/10 loans back in the 90s in SF.

I am knee deep in getting my 83 year old mother and her husband in a nursing home. After decades of poor financial decisions and money management they have no assets. We are now faced with finding a (non shitty) facility that accepts Medicaid. Not pretty. Younger people here, please take this issue seriously. Now is the time to start your retirement planning. It sucks to get old but getting old with no money is terrible. You no longer have options and are at the mercy of others.

[quote]How much money would you need to retire right now and live the rest of your life comfortably?

Twenty dollars, if the rest of my life lasted until noon the next day.

[quote]honestly, if you can just own your house outright, you can actually be fine with that $500,000 I expect. Maybe you can't live in some idiotically expensive city, but why should you?

R7's scenario if not far off my retirement. I own a great house (with annual property taxes so low you would think I misunderstood the question as the weekly rate). I live in a one of the most beautiful cities in the world, but 200 or 300 positions down on the most expensive list. By train or plane I can be in the places I like to travel for little money and time. I have excellent free healthcare. Food choices are excellent and affordable. You can treat a table full of friends to a drink and come home with change from a 20. I have a few spending vices but they're focused and easily controlled. I live well with a half-million, a tiny pension of about 2000 month, and a house in the bank, so to speak.

It depends on where you live, your expenses and spending, the controllability and prediction of future costs, health care costs...

R80 I'm going through the same for my widower father.

Thankfully there are several catholic based charities that will help him live in place, food delivery, home cleaning, basic living assistance. I figure they've given thousands of dollars to the church, time to get money back from the catholics, while they catholics can still afford it.

I can also live in his home a few days a week and get money for helping him out, via some state programs in MA, since I own his home and can claim its my primary residence.

My parents planned for retirement, together, but didn't plan for one spouse to outlive the other.

I’m 51. Own 2 fully paid properties, one in a very high cost city, London, one in a low cost city, Bangkok. I have $1.7m in various financial instruments. I met my financial advisor yesterday and he confirmed I’m on track for retiring at 55 with an income of c. $6k per month until 99. The plan is to share my time between Europe and Thailand. Of course a big unknown is how investments will fare; we live in an increasingly fucked up world with an ever increasing threat of a major armed conflict. Not to mention a high risk of another pandemic as we continue fucking with Mother Nature. The future is bleak but I’m also conscious financially I’m better off than most.

The line to marry R84 begins behind me.

R2 looks like we are a perfect match indeed ❤️

I believe the only people posting here are those who are secure and/or have retirement plans. Most Americans have nothing saved for retirement and will work into their elder years and rely on social security and family.

That said, I‘m aiming for 5M in my early 60s. If I had 3M free and clear I’d be tempted.

I'm in my early 60s. Way back when I was in my 30s my company offered LTC, so I signed up for it as I'm one of those permanently single people who have no children, thus nobody to take care of me as I age. Figured I'll need all the help I can get. I just received notice that the premium is increasing 20%. I'm still working (hoping to retire somewhat soon) and I can afford it, but crap.

R87 Yes, this thread is mostly self congratulatory financial onanism or wishful thinking, but why the fuck not?

It's not like I can talk to old friends or family about this kinda shit, unless R84 slides into my DMs (and isn't too into Thai ladybois.)

Many of my friends dropped out of the workforce very early, and get by in a makeshift gig economy and subsidized housing. They report/declare only part of their income and claim a lot of expenses like research material for those who give talks, equipment for musicians, and sometimes transportation. They do things like lecture, tutor, sometimes perform. I admire them all.

They all have complex tax scenarios, and a few indicate that their social security benefits in retirement will be a set minimum level, similar to a disabled person today. In some cases, those who stayed in a job they may not have always enjoyed accrued more retirement credits and IRA (or 401k, 403b type) funds. Some teachers have both pension and Social Security, and sometimes healthcare “grandfathered” in from earlier union benefits, but that’s becoming rare.

My own situation is a combination of most of the posts on this thread. It’s sobering reading, but makes me think about the choices I had earlier in life. I will land near the right place if I’m careful, but I also know that anything can take me off course. Systems are fragile, including human systems.

I have few regrets in life, but one major regret is not buying a house earlier. Because I waited so late, I will be well past retirement age and still paying for this thing - which will greatly impact my retirement plans.

I am about to turn 62. I have $2.3 million in retirement accounts and assets worth about another $750k. I plan on retiring in three years and should have somewhere about $3.5 million net worth. The only reason I don't retire sooner is I want to pay off the mortgage first and health insurance pre-Medicare eligibility.

R91 I think that has been a major key to retirement in the US and to potential financial independence.

But that's over. We're becoming a renter nation, like the UK. Unless something drastic happens.

Come on younger peeps, fight for the ability to own your own home!

R89 “It's not like I can talk to old friends or family about this kinda shit”

Exactly. It’s really delicate discussing finances even with siblings and close friends. We have a quiet understanding that each of us has a different picture unfolding over the next few decades. I have some really cool and close friends who are so vulnerable financially. Most are pretty fatalistic about it (“hey, I did what I wanted to do! I never needed to impress anyone”, etc.)

R24, I'm glad to hear it because I have a net worth at 60 of $2M and I am freaking out on this thread!

R88, we are in similar situation. We purchased LTC insurance thru employer. Employer quickly dropped that option but we are grandfathered in. I know some here have poor opinion of LTC. We talked to our CPA about it, he says it has kept many from from impoverishment (and crappy nursing homes). I posted above about my elderly parents with no assets. Lat week, I spoke to 2 different nursing home directors about LTC. Both told me it has kept many residents in a comfortable place vs. going to a Medicaid MANDATED roommate 'sharing' scenario (which we be a horror to me). Good luck to you.

I agree about how delicate it can be to discuss finances. My best friend has had a number of really good years financially recently, and he's been able to put away enough that he has paid-for homes in Canada and Palm Springs, a nice pension and lot of investments, and he will be able to retire this year at 60. He talks to me a lot about his finances, to the point of telling me how much he makes each year. I don't make as much (but am still very comfortable and will have a nice retirement), so sometimes it stings a little, but then I remember that he's my best friend, and he doesn't have a lot of other people to talk to about that. So I'm happy to be that sounding board and delighted for his success. It reminds me not to talk about my own financial details in front of those who may have less than I do.

R91 I remember that decision, when and what to buy. My friends who lived in bigger, nicer subsidized rental units in NYC urged me not to buy my place (“what do you want with that?!”). They had big rental units in Mitchell-Lama complexes on the Upper West Side and places like Yorkville on the Upper East Side of NYC, also Stuyvesant Town and places like that.

But I landed in the City later than most, and my place was unregulated, and I was looking at a steep rent increase because there was a tight housing shortage, so I negotiated to buy the unit based on a comparable one in the same building. That property will save me rental expenses in the future and I will probably sell it to fund some form of better quality assisted living in a few decades, if the planet is still habitable and all of that. In years when I lived abroad I rented it out, but didn’t make much from it because of co-op subtenant fees and lost rent abatements because it wasn’t my primary residence. But still, it’s been worth it.

R97 Definitely. My friends are all over the place financially and I try to stay quiet about my own financial picture, to be sensitive. They can research some things like the value of properties on Zillow and even salary because it’s public, but mercifully they don’t define me by those numbers. Among my friends I was always in the middle of the pack financially, but a few big things (opportunities) turned me into an outlier. Some were due to luck, some were not. I tried really hard to set myself right. I still do.

Is everyone here lying? No way so many millionaires are on DL

If someone were to hand me $500-600K so that I could outright purchase a house someplace where I'd like to live out my remaining decades, I think I could exist happily and modestly on my existing savings, plus SS and proceeds from the sale of my current home.

Would anyone like my Venmo info?

R93 that idea of a “renter nation” really is taking shape. I can see why so many prefer renting to buying and maintaining homes, cars, even technology in the short term, for now. The economy has gone in that direction. But I think people are catching on and looking over the longer term. Wealth is pretty concentrated among fewer people now and our periods of “peak earning” are getting shorter. Things are pretty uncertain.

R96 That idea of having less freedom, fewer choices and less privacy near the end of our lives is behind a lot of our insecurities on this thread. LTC and asset management come into play so fast. I hope we learn the right lessons form the generation ahead of us.

In the UK, a series of films based on “kitchen sink realism” made me think about domestic finances early in life. One film, The Entertainer, made me wonder about uncertainty and aging. I have always been afraid of being “constricted” financially, being too dependent on others, being too vulnerable. Many of here seem to share that fear. Many of us having only ourselves to count on.

[quote]Is everyone here lying? No way so many millionaires are on DL

I probably will not word this properly, but I think there's a difference between being a millionaire with a million dollars in disposable income at your fingertips and a million dollars tied up in savings, retirement accounts, and real estate that will be used for your retirement.

It sounds like some people posting on this thread have talked to financial people and started planning for their retirement early and are now in a decent position. They're saving now so they can be comfortable later. If that makes sense.

R88 That LTC premium increase sounds daunting. I wonder if they raise the premiums both to fund claims but also to force clients to surrender that coverage.

[quote] I probably will not word this properly, but I think there's a difference between being a millionaire with a million dollars in disposable income at your fingertips and a million dollars tied up in savings, retirement accounts, and real estate that will be used for your retirement.

Exactly. It kind of boggles my mind that I have 2 million saved for retirement, but I only earn around 140k a year. A lot of it is growth, but also the right mind set. When I get an annual bonus, I don’t think about ways I can go blow it. I think about how I will invest it. I max my 401k, Roth IRA, and HSA contributions every year to take advantage of either tax deferred or tax free growth.

I see on DL there are some fellow ants, as well as a lot of grasshoppers.

I wish I had invested better. There are days I scratch my head that some people argue $2M isn't enough. R105, I am a paper millionaire. Everything is tied up in investments and real estate. I'm going back to work part time anyway. Retirement is boring. And if I don't like it, I can fuck off and find something else. I definitely don't [italic]feel[/italic] like a millionaire. The other thing that surprises me about retirement is how instantly comfortable I've gotten about being cheap (or cost conscious, whatever you call it.) I'm much more mindful of what I'm willing to pay.

R108, I can understand being "cost conscious" in retirement, but too many people take it too far. Old people will sit in a restaurant for hours (since they don't have to be elsewhere) and then leave a 10% tip for the server. If they can't afford to tip properly, they shouldn't be eating out.

Interesting economics, deciding the server is better off with nothing.

Looks like so many here is not even adding SS into the equation.

A million isn’t what a million was.

[quote]Interesting economics, deciding the server is better off with nothing. r110

If the server were left 3-cents, you'd say the same thing, wouldn't you, cheap cunt?

R113, your mother may have told you that you could be anything you wanted, but a douchebag wasn’t what she meant.

[quote] Interesting economics, deciding the server is better off with nothing.

The server doesn't necessarily get "nothing" if the old people don't sit at the table for three hours and leave a 10% tip. The cheapskates may be displacing other people who would leave a decent tip. Or even if they aren't, the server could at least go home early and enjoy his/her life, rather than sitting around for hours waiting for the sub-minimum-wage tip left by the cheapos. (My 85 year old mother tips well, but she has lunch with a friend who will sit there for hours and leave a dollar dip on her lunch. )

Bird in the hand, but let's follow the DL sociopathy - rather, orthodoxy - and just kill all the old people. You people are MAGA in your weird views about the people you don't like.

I don't think your 85 year old mother tips well, R115. So, sorry, she goes too. This is no time for hope.

The cheapskates may be on a fixed income or tight budget. But I guess if you can't tip 20% you have to stay home and, ideally, die.

No need to kill the old. Just encourage them to tip better.

But if they can't, it's then OK to isolate them at home until they die? Yes?

One million would be enough.

Sorry, forgot, exclude, shame and marginalize them too.

Renter nation = feudal state. Just how the super wealthy and powerful want it to be.

I’m pleased to see that there are some penitents who confess to not saving for retirement as they should have. Although they have already hosed themselves, it’s good that they admit fault, and perhaps their story can influence others not to make the same mistake.

I live in West Hollywood and will retire here. I have a condo mortgage and monthly HOA charge and will bring that into retirement. I'm planning $2.25M,.

I'm currently 62 and will work another 4 to 5 years. Then, I will cut back to part time, as much as I want, to be active. Today, I spoke with my CEO about my plan and he was happy I was staying around. The reason why I will continue to work is based on wanting to be active and keeping my mind engaged (I have alzheimer's on both side of my family).

I'm single and have been most of my life - I've focused on my career.

Here’s info on catch up contributions for your retirement accounts if you’re 50 and over.

I max the catch-up contributions on 401k, Roth IRA, and HSA.

Fidelity states that you should have ten times your salary saved by age 67.

Most answered coming in between 1-2 million, maybe a bit more. Where you live makes a very big difference. Half a million and SS can work in much of the nation. I have enough to live in NYC and Palm Springs retired, but if I had to pick one based on expense- Palm Springs (condo townhouse) is about a third as expensive as the NYC (coop apt), which is less than half as large!

R100 it's the SAME shtick for every quadrimestral Retirement $$ thread on DL. See R21.

R55 A blood test that’s 97% accurate detecting pancreatic cancer, one of the deadliest cancers, was announced this week.

It is one of the thousands of advances medicine will make in the next twenty years.

I'm in West Hollywood with a paid for condo and no debt. I have enough money to last the rest of my life but my place is small and sometimes it kind of bothers me when I realize, I'll probably die in this apartment. I don't have enough money to move elsewhere even though I really would like to try a different place. Being an old gay in WeHo means being basically invisible.

Did somebody say something?

R132. But still, count your blessings. Why don't you create a social club with other old invisible gays in WeHo?

R132, I'm in West Hollywood too - on Kings Rd. (intersection with Willoughby).

I have $500,000, 69 and own my house outright. The worst of the winter it cost no more that $120 to heat and cook, electric is $40. Property taxes $589.00

^ UGH....my property taxes are $10,000

Where do you live r136 and can we start a gay retirement community?

Also not sure how interest rates going down affects 401k value...

R131 Any news on when such a blood test for pancreatic cancer will become available? Up to now the only reliable test for pancreatic cancer is a CAT scan with contrast , which is pricey. A very early detection (stage one) is the best hope anyone has for surviving that type of cancer.

R140 PR or hopeful or hype? It just crossed my screen before I wrote. Not everything pans out but if this does, it's a significant advance.

Your last salary R128? I cannot believe this.

I inherited my home 40 years ago right out of high school. I've never traded up, just socked my dough away in ICICI Prudential and in the last 20 years added global funds such as PGIM India and precious metals on the London Metal Exchange. Have about 25 million. Not bad for an ex shop bottom.

What’s not to believe R142? That seems reasonable to me; at 4% you’d get a little less than half of your income from savings, plus whatever social security provides.

R141 Thanks for the link to the article. It is encouraging if the data turns out to be accurate. Hope fully it can be rolled out as a test to the general public and perhaps become part of an annual health check routine. I know three people who have died from it, so I know how fast and merciless that type of cancer can be.

R132 Ouch but touche!

I lived in Weho in my 20s and hooked up with many gays in their condos. One in particular, on Kings Rd between Santa Monica and Melrose, I met when crystal meth was VERY much in vogue. He was a nice guy that I met at the gym but clearly spent almost every weekend PnPing in his decent, but cramped condo. I swore in a session with him that I wouldn't be a 40+ gay living in Weho like that.

Can you rent the condo out for a little while and live somewhere like Palm Springs or Puerto Vallarta? Even if temporary, you'd break the monotony up and maybe even appreciate what WeHo has to offer after some perspective.

[quote]property owned outright is a huge force multiplier. Removing rent from the equation enables even a modest income like Social Security to go a lot farther.

[quote]In some settings, people own a dwelling, but pay lot rent for the land beneath it. My parents’ friends live like that in Florida. Rent and other variable expenses like it have the potential to creep up and strip other options from your budget. So owning a home is a big deal, a “leg up”.

r64, that's a big cornerstone in my case. Where I live annual property tax is complexity inconsequential; instead one-time taxes when the property changes hands are steep. Outside of maintenance, there's no real cost to the house except utilities and even there, there's a significant element of control in consumption. Food, other basic expenses can rise but the cost of the living but owning a house where the ongoing costs are minimal, having a great health care system without costs: two of the big worries for many are not worries for me which makes a very big difference in having some confidence about money holding out when rent and ongoing housing costs and healthcare are off the table.

R82 “big worries” calls to mind what I’d consider ambient stressors. If you engineer your financial situation (housing, food, healthcare) carefully, you have more bandwidth and stamina to manage other things. And there will be a lot of other things coming at us in the decades ahead. I know that much.

Retirement planning advice includes planning for drawing down your principal over your lifetime. However, I want to delay that as much as possible. I’m hoping with $2.5 million to just live off the earnings from it, plus Social Security. I’ll have all the principal at the end to pay for my nursing home care and strippers.

R149, to economize, you should find strippers who do nursing care, or nurses who strip. You can call them "candy strippers"!

R137 My dad left us a place on Long Island....neither of us wanted it because of the PT . I was dumb, never worried about the future...now I still sweating whether or not I’ll have enough...our people live a long time..too long really

R136 I did a complete 180 going from being born in NYC, living on Long Island until 20yrs ago when I moved to Fl..

I moved to West Virginia a yr and a half ago. I love it here. I’m Jewish and wear a Star of Savid always, never been hassled...look at towns like Ripley or Ravenswood (western WV) or even Point Pleasant home of Mothman.

Anyplace where Parkersburg (Patsy Ramsey birthplace) or the capital Charleston or even Morgantown is no more than an hour away.

To the people who get angry at these types of threads, I don't think a single person who has posted is bragging or lying. Why would you lie about having 2 million saved for retirement? I applaud everyone who was smart enough to plan ahead. I even applaud those who just lucked out and fell into a nice retirement setup. Whether you like it or not, it's coming and there are not many places where you can have these types of frank and open discussions about these topics, especially as gay men.

I'm single, an only child, and when my dad dies, I won't have anyone. I haven't even thought about things like long term care or a nursing home.

R153 I’m the youngest of five siblings, three married and technically very well off, one single and financially unsteady (small nest egg and meager pension from only 8 years employment before leaving to full time workforce, lives at home).

I'm single but have worked 40 years, these last 15 “C-Suite”. But I have no partner and will likely age mostly on my own, too. Our parents are past 80, but still independent and holding steady, yet I know their time is finite. I think as more of us age independently, self-reliant, more choices may emerge.

Parts of threads like these can be rough and snarky, but entries like yours (honest, nonjudgmental) keep me reading.

^^”before leaving the full-time workforce”, that is.

Honestly, and switching horses here a bit, I think by the time I am really old I may do assisted suicide whatever you call it. The father of someone I know did it last weekend. He was 95 and frail. There was lots wrong with him, but nothing killing him. He was just done. He was tired and he refused to go long term care and have his ass wiped for him. So somehow he qualified. (This is Canada, apparently we'll kill anybody.) And as I write this as not 60 I find it hard to imagine summoning that kind of courage but I can see being able to when living is a chore. So I don't think I will run out of money, but I do think I will run out of runway, if something doesn't get me first. I can't imagine the end being a shared bathroom and cement block walls painted a pastel, told when to have a meal, listening to the local choir of not quite as oldies singing at me. I don't know, but I find it hard to imagine wanting that. I find it hard to imagine navigating the politics of the ward, which I imagine to be a lot like high school, with less sphincter control. A friend of mine, who's a doctor, was talking with me about aging and she said, bluntly: Do you really want to live to be 95? It made me think. Probably not. I find it hard to imagine carrying off the great old age, not thinking every day and every night: is this it? I dunno. Aging. Fuck I've squandered some time.

R140, there is actually a blood test for many cancers right now, but you have to pay out of pocket. The medical establishment has a lot of caution about things like this, partly because it could result in unnecessary testing and anxiety and partly because they are super comfortable letting people die while waiting for conclusive research that will then be contradicted in later studies.

Also, the median American at 65 to 74 is $426k with a median at $164k. These numbers usually don’t specify how it is balanced in a household.

50 bucks would get me out of a couple of jams.

$25 Million

R156: I feel like none of your time has been wasted if it all led up to you giving us this thought on nursing home life: ‘I find it hard to imagine navigating the politics of the ward, which I imagine to be a lot like high school, with less sphincter control.’ Really made me laugh so thank you. On a serious note, as you say, you’re not quite 60 so there’s time to ‘not waste' a good number of decent years ahead.

I agree with you too on being that old. There must come a point if you make it to old age (I probably mean 90+ when I say that) that you’re just waiting to die.

The grandmother who lived to 105 was very bored at the end. All her friends were dead and she was a generation older than most of the people in her assisted living facility. But she had good quality of life while she lived independently, which was 101.

A friend's Mom died Monday. She was like Jimmy Carter - in hospice care since last summer, on nothing but pain meds since February. Aged 101. The last few years were a living hell for her. Gradually losing her hearing, her sight, control of her bowels and at the end, her mind, hallucinating. She was a brilliant woman, so what a shitty way to go. Twenty years ago she was great fun, even ten years ago she was sharp if not as active. But a long, dragged-out finale can't be much fun.

I think $5 million and I’d never have to worry. I’m in my 30s right now and I have no idea what inflation is going to look like in the future.

Hopefully I won’t live that long.

Hey R135 I'm on Kinds Road between Melrose and Waring!

Kings. Goddamn spelling ^

[quote] A friend of mine, who's a doctor, was talking with me about aging and she said, bluntly: Do you really want to live to be 95?

How would we know until we get there r156? Maybe some 95 year olds are still enjoying themselves. Maybe one's ideas of satisfaction change. It really would be nice, though, to have the freedom to get off the carousel if the ride becomes too painful.

I really enjoy these retirement/financial threads, I’ve read loads of them over the years and actually screen saved some of the replies. But I’m always shocked by how many people have say $3 million or more and are worried if it will be enough.

What do you guys spend your money on?

OH boy, OP just opened up the door for all the DL millionaires who are humble braggers. They just love these threads to tell the poors how they worked hard, saved their money and have millions but still not enough.

[quote]I have few regrets in life, but one major regret is not buying a house earlier. Because I waited so late, I will be well past retirement age and still paying for this thing - which will greatly impact my retirement plans.

REALTY CHECK, more than 50% of Americans will never even one a home in their lifetime. All these posters on this thread are millionaires talking to millionaires. 99% of American do not and will not have 1 million when they retire even if you include the value of their house if they own one.

The average American household has a net worth of a million dollars.

The home ownership rate in the U.S. is 65.9%

The U.S. rates 54th in home ownership rates among other countries.

[quote]The average American household has a net worth of a million dollars

HOUSEHOLD, that can be 1 or more people, usually 2 ore more incomes you nitwit.

The problem with saying the average Income as a stat is that it's very misleading.

If you have 10 people in a group making 20,000 a year, the average is 20,000. But if just 1 of those is a millionaire, the "average income" now looks like everyone is making 118,000 a year. Which is misleading because 9 out of the 10 are still only making 20,000. About 5 times less than the average of all American incomes combined.

There are over 756 Billionaires in the US, imaging how that factors into the "average" income stats.

On the idea of ending one’s life electively, I remember there is a nonprofit called Dignitas. A friend of mine (a very prosperous individual with a ton of professional recognition and prestige) plans to end her life in Switzerland by climbing into a sphere filled with carbon monoxide when she feels that she is unable to manage age-related issues in 20 or 30 years. But again we don’t yet understand what interventions might improve the quality of life for the very elderly, 90+.

Sometimes I think people speak fatalistically because they don’t want to think or talk about aging and independence. I can understand that. I’m generally lucky and will be ok financially, but still wring my hands over decisions I have made and even more about the ones I will need to make at each transition point ahead. I probably will consolidate things and map it all out really carefully, and then just drop dead before enjoying any of it. That happens a lot.

there are many “have nots” so there are many on DL. It is difficult to digest that so many “ordinary folks” have retirements with net worths in the many millions. we grew up in eras when these figures = “rich people” and “millionaires” in the old sense

R173 that’s a very fair point and, in fact the median net worth is about $200,000.

About 7% of the US population are millionaires. But an important point to consider also is all of these numbers include people of all ages. DataLounge skews old and there are very few 20 somethings with significant retirement savings or paid-down/off mortgages.

OP- I have a more important question –

How much money would I need to have hot young guys be very interested in me?

Not enough money in the world…not for all the tea in China.

Considerably more, R178, than anyone’s mentioned thus far.

Perhaps Mr Geffen will chime in with a number?

I'm a geriatrician and have been involved in aging policy, aging health care, and the general lives of the aged for decades. First off, the current aged generation over 85 is an outlier. They were young during the depression/world war II and as they were somewhat calorie restricted, their life spans have been extended (see the semi-starved rat theory). Those of us in our late fifties and early sixties now contemplating retirement aren't going to get that physiologic bump and are unlikely to live as long. Second, the current structure of long term care, after having been bought up by hedge funds and corporate interests, is rapidly deteriorating and the models now in vogue are likely to collapse as the early boomers are forced to turn to them over the next decade. The facilities aren't being kept up and the staffing no longer exists. Third, the health care system has turned so anti-primary care and geriatric care that there isn't going to be any easy way for people to maintain in the community as chronically ill. Fourth, the conversion of Medicare from the traditional model to Medicare Advantage which is all about making it a for profit program benefiting private insurers is going to make it harder and harder to use. Add to this the boomers, lead edge now 78, who feel that they are entitled to eternal youth and immortality, starting to run into biologic reality and who will not go quietly into that good night and we have a real shit show coming.

yikes 😳

- but thanks for the heads up

r180 What you are saying is you need 10 million to reitre now, the blood of the young to drink will be expensive!

R168 Thanks for proving my point about having no one to talk to about this kinda stuff.

I never worked hard and It isn't unusual to have these amounts of money saved, especially in major cities in most countries.

Nor have I done anything worth bragging about, (neither humbly nor proudly), unless saving and being lucky are bragging worthy.

My luck has been exceptional though; early .com employee, real estate flips in BOS & SFO, managed stock holdings and investments since my thirties. Now, I'm squandering all that to live a nerdy Big Lewbowski life on the beach with my dogs in my fifties and maybe beyond.

Hey, I guess you can brag about this kinda bullshit on DL. Thanks for showing me the light, R168!

r183 the only thing I did right was start at age 21 when I got my first real job. Been maxing out my contributions for 31 years. No brain savings. Now at 52 I have 1.5 million in my 401k. All I did was pick index funds that followed the S&P, set and forget.

Depends on where you plan to retire. There are many countries where 2K per month you live well. Good healthcare, good roads, good housing.

Panama R185 We met an English guy there who worked training Panamanians to work in hospitality. He was gay, in his 40’s, and said it was perfect for him and cost less than $2k a month to live well. He was saving a lot of money. Good infrastructure, really good health care, tax breaks, low rents, lots of expats, nice beaches, even some highland towns where it’s cooler because the heat is what drives most people out. About 90 or 100 degrees F all the time with 90 to 100% humidity all the time, or so it feels. If you can handle that, it’s great. They make it easy to retire there. This was pre-pandemic. I have no idea how much prices have risen since 2019, but it seemed a lot calmer and safer than anywhere else in Central America.

And if it all goes to shit down there, it’s only three hours to Miami. It’s just that I think it might go to shit here first, in which case it’s only three hours to Panama City.

R180 is a troll, as he actually runs the daily IV drip for Peter Thiel….

R183 does raise a good point. I’m a le boomer who just retired. I had no real plan or goal in life except graduate from a top university. I did that (but I did not actually do well there). As a backup I went to a regional law school and did marginally better. I fell into a decent law firm, was randomly assigned to a productive area of practice…and enjoyed smooth sailing for 30+ years. Call it luck, call it male privilege or even white privilege. FWIW. I’m def for a cushy life, not that I think I earned it. But, I did learn this, from my livable by ne’er fo well father: go along to get along is not a path to be tossed aside. I made it 🤷🏻‍♂️

^ minor typos—but you’ll get the drift. ☮️

I guess all our trailer and even transient motel dwelling Datalounge brothers on disability or minimal social security just keep their traps shut in these threads.

Op you better get two jobs now so you can support me later.

How much money will you need to lick my asshole?

R174 Dignitas may be non profit, but it will still cost you $12.000 to end your life there. We had a really good thread about aging a few years ago and I took a screenshot of the post below. If it comes to it it’s what I will choose.

Phenobarbital will not kill you, but the similarly-named pentobarbital will. People confuse the two, but the later is what is known as the "peaceful pill." The brand name is Nembutal. It is what doctors use for assisted suicide, because it has a perfect success rate, is painless, and it is quick. It is not possible to get it in the US without going to one of the 9 states where assisted suicide is legal, but you can usually buy it OTC in Mexico at vet pharmacies, since it is the same medication that is used to put animals to sleep. I have fatal cancer, and have done a lot of research about how to exit, and that is the way I will go. It is the ideal method.

R193 Helpful, but how do you figure out the dosage so that your efforts are successful?

Good news: according to Andrew G. Biggs, average Americans with no or little savings are all doing just fine. (this is the WSJ, and Biggs is a senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, with a vested, ideological interest in screwing the little people, but still!) There is hope for us all.

According to Biggs, “Among seniors with $50,000 to $99,999 in savings, 86% were doing OK or living comfortably.”

R195, interesting article. I agree with you re: AEI. I'm sure they will use the data to help take away social security and Medicare from the poor on the basis that they are too rich and too happy.

Yes r197. All part of the infowars. AEI vs Bernie Sanders.

[quote] You’ll never get value for the premiums paid —you could invest $ better on your own to cover costs not include in Medicare etc. Premiums go up as the coverage goes down. Nope

??? The TOTAL premium for my LTC is $75,000 paid over 15 years. The monthly payout should I need the coverage is $3,400 a month. If I need it for 10 years that is $400k+. What is the likelihood I could turn $5000 per year for 15 years into more than $400k over 25 years???

"What is the likelihood I could turn $5000 per year for 15 years into more than $400k over 25 years???"

That assumes you need it. If you don't need it, you've spent $75,000 (and whatever you could have gained) for nothing because you're left with nothing, not even the $75k.

My LTC premium is $157 per year, because I bought in in my 20s the one year it was offered at work.

Insurers have figured out that LTC insurance is actuarily unsound. Any versions still on the market have exceedingly high premiums. It was very briefly a work benefit through my employer about twenty years ago and I bought it then (I work in elder care and I know what happens to those who develop dementia and other long course debilitating diseases if they don't have it). I'm one of the lucky few in my generation that's going to have it.

Honestly, I’d rather just cash in my chips and get medical assistance in dying (or do it myself) rather than go into a nursing home for an extended period, so I don’t think long term care would be a good investment in my case.

My policy covers in home assistance as well. But as R202 it’s hard to get a reasonable policy now.

What R203 said.

Most long term care places charging 10,000 a month are still dumps with shitty care were the elderly die of bedsores.

I went with an elderly friend to look at the ultra premium ones in Beverly Hills and my friend was still mortified. It was the nicest one I have seen, like a medium priced hotel, with amenities such as a patio with live music and cocktails every Friday. Had It's own restaurant that looked more like a cafeteria but offering filet Mignon, chicken of fish every night. Light nursing staff only there for minor things, one or two per floor.

The downside though was it was still very depressing. Everyone was really, really old, like in their 80's or 90's, the "young staff" were in their 60's. The rooms were still very small and boring, people walking around all on some kind of drugs like zombies in their own world. No pets allowed. Half of them probably suffering from dementia. Not a lot of social action going on. There was one room where a rabbi was given a lecture on the torah. I assume each day a different religion. The front reception was set up more like a fancy yet scammy time share office. Sell, Sell, Sell "can we get you some water". Their renters keep dying on them.

At the end of the day, it's just another big business, it's not "care" like you think.

I’ll die in my own bed, looking out over Chelsea, the ESB and Hudson Yards….thank you very much.

With your legs in the air, just like God intended.

I have to live long enough to get rid of all my possessions and wrap up my affairs. I'd rather throw it all away myself than have it remain and be shoveled away by complete strangers. Lord knows I might even have some money left over so someone should benefit from that.

132,134, & 165, I’m right around the corner from you on Sweetzer between Willoughby and Waring. I turned 60 this year and retired with a 100k per year state pension. I started a new full time job a week later with somewhat less responsibility and with a somewhat lower salary. I’ll probably work 5-7 more years. I’ve been in a two bedroom rent controlled apartment for decades. I really don’t want to stay here until I die and have been trying to figure out if there is anywhere better that’s affordable. I get the invisible thing!

Those respondents are probably living barebones lifestyles mostly at home with blinders of no rainy days in the forecast.

Who the hell things $50k in savings = living comortably. People who have to because that's them.

You don't need a lot of STUFF when you are old r210. Most people at retirement age start thinking about downsizing, getting rid of things, living simply. Lots of typical heteros sell their big family home and move into small 1 bedroom condos because it's easy to maintain. Expensive clothes, cars and vacation no longer interest them, been there, done that. Most just stay home and dont go out after 6pm. They like that.

Rich Boomes on the other hand buy in fancy retirement communities convincing themselves they are 30 something successful individuals and want to party like it's still 1999. Until they throw their back out, heartburn from spicy food, or stroke out all of a sudden like it's a surprise at that age. Still competing with the Jones over who has the nicest generic looking house in the community.

R211 Who's talking about stuff? In 2024, $50k covers just a few rainy days. Those folks are living in fear and denial. Mostly the latter, because well, like I said they have no choice but to accept their fate.

I am 63 my net worth is 2.5 Million. I don't plan on retiring until at least 67.

I am 62 my net worth is 5.75 million. I retired last year. FIFY

[quote] That assumes you need it. If you don't need it, you've spent $75,000 (and whatever you could have gained) for nothing because you're left with nothing, not even the $75k.

Yes, well my need may be strictly psychological but dealing with two aging relatives who both needed long-term care in their latter years has convinced me it is worth it. Today, a decent -- just decent -- memory care unit in a major city starts at $8,000. In 10 years, it will be $12,000 or more. Even higher on the coasts. Every little bit helps when you are looking at 4 or more years in assisting living or memory care.

God willing, I will never have to use it but that $75,000 will have bought me some peace of mind. Also, there is a life insurance component to the LTC so I may get nothing but my siblings, nieces and nephews will have some scraps to fight over.

[quote] Here’s info on catch up contributions for your retirement accounts if you’re 50 and over.

This made me laugh. When I was 49 I would have immediately hit "block" on this thread.

[quote] Is saving $200k by 35 good bad or indifferent?

Good! Much better than most. Make sure it is in a retirement account (IRA or 401k) so you are not taxed on gains. Keep saving and you'll have well over $2 million in 20 years -- and 20 years is the blink of an eye. I remember 35 as if it were last Tuesday.

[quote] Any kind of calculation is a shot in the dark at the end of the day. A market crashes and hyper-inflation could wipe out every last commenter on this thread.

Well, my backup savings plan involves a trip to the beach, thirty (30) Xanax and a bottle of tequila.

[quote] Sometimes I think people speak fatalistically because they don’t want to think or talk about aging and independence.

I have observed up-close aged people who have lost all quality of life and will to live but are kept alive by family or sense of obligation. I hope not to be one of those aged people.

[quote] [R57] property owned outright is a huge force multiplier. Removing rent from the equation enables even a modest income like Social Security to go a lot farther.

Property taxes and insurance are still big ticket items and costs are going up, as are HOA dues. The monthly payment on my 2.25% mortgage is less than the monthly combo of taxes, insurance and HOA dues.

Owning property in retirement is still better than renting. Especially if paid in full.

In California, your property taxes are tied to your purchase price. The law was to protect seniors from being unable to keep their homes due to exponentially rising property values and taxes here.

This was posted on a similar thread a few years ago, I took a screenshot…

At 50, and seeing so many people die before or right after retirement, l've decided that I'm more likely to regret having worked a soul sucking job for the majority of my life than not working long enough to save enough to live until 95.

[quote] people walking around all on some kind of drugs like zombies in their own world

Tell me more, tell me more…

[quote] But I’m always shocked by how many people have say $3 million or more and are worried if it will be enough. What do you guys spend your money on?

Broadway cast albums and Maalox.

{r100} believe it or not I do i have close to 2mil. I can't even believe i'm basically a millionaire. If you told me at 34 i would be i would have laughed in your face. i bought a house at 38 and it doubled in value in 10 years. . Sold id for 1.55 during the pandemic because i thought the world was going to fall apart. I owned the house for 14 years and was very good about paying it down as much as i could. I still went on vacays and nice dinners, but i did a lot of the work on the house (painting, landscaping) myself, which saved me a lot of money. Also maxed out my 40`k every year even though it's tempting not to. To early to retire but if i had to, i guess i could.

[quote]Property taxes and insurance are still big ticket items and costs are going up, as are HOA dues. The monthly payment on my 2.25% mortgage is less than the monthly combo of taxes, insurance and HOA dues.

For some, yes, and in the U.S., yes. And if not yet, there is the prospect of HOA fees becoming something of a wildcard. In the U.S., HOA fees of some sort affect 35% of homeowners.

I'm not in the U.S. and annual property taxes are practically nothing. If they do change at a glacial pace and by small increments many years apart, all to shield members from large and unforseen expenses. The equivalent of monthly HOA fees are very low and largely amount to division of any shared utility fees plus a modest admin fee; €100/mo. is considered unusually high. Large reserves for emergencies are not favored. A monthly HOA fee in the €100s or €200s is is rare and usually indicates a recently converted luxury building with desk or door staff.

Home sales and rents rise dramatically, but those owners are renters already in place have a good measure of protection from the concerns of their U.S. equivalents.

[quote]Who's talking about stuff? In 2024, $50k covers just a few rainy days. Those folks are living in fear and denial.

R212, You are projecting. Do you know those people? Maybe it's you who is living in fear and denial. You know, 99% of the worlds population do not retire with a million dollars in the bank and they do just fine.

I know I’ve posted a few times of screenshots I’ve taken from other threads over the years. Some of those threads have vanished now and beneath the snark etc there were some really good replies and I didn't want to forget them as I found them really useful. This is one below that I loved and I think it does fit in on a retirement/financial thread. I wonder if the person who originally posted this is reading this thread?

On a personal level, I am dumbfounded at how much less "stuff" most of the rest of the world needs. Americans are obsessed with bigger and better. There is a whole television network geared at buying a bigger home to represent success in the American mindset. 2,000 square feet? My goodness, how will I ever be able to raise my family and "entertain" in such a small space!!! On every other continent, people live in much less space and make do just fine. They don't need hundreds or thousands of cheap Chinese made trinkets to fill up their homes and lives. People sit in cafes or restaurants on the sidewalk to socialize with friends and family. People don't need gigantron freezers to store 30 pounds of frozen breaded chicken or that 4 pack of Digiorni frozen pieza or 6 Ib bag of Doritos. They stop at the corner store for two minutes, chat with the owner, pick up their essentials for the day, and bid adieu until the next day. I've learned to be mindful of just how much stuff I don't really need and whether acquiring it will make me happier. I've found it doesn't. Life is simpler. FWIW, I get grass on the other side is greener syndrome. My admin who is from Eastern Europe is fascinated with the McMansion dream. Hated the small apartments back home. Even bought a brand new McMansion herself out in suburbia with all the cookie cutter features everyone else in the neighborhood has. Just like my parents when the immigrated. Hell, my father bought 2 houses of the same mold - one just sits as a weekend home twice a month. The thing is, they aren't fulfilled.

r156 My dad lived to 101. he hated it. All his friends and war buddies were gone..he too refused any help . He fell in his co-opand ended up dying in the hospital during the Covid crisis up in NY.. They wouldn’t let me in to see my dying dad as I was from Fl...my brother got to comfort him for 20 minutes

Im still heartbroken and a long long life as his scares me to death

[quote] stop at the corner store for two minutes, chat with the owner, pick up their essentials for the day, and bid adieu until the next day

Implicit in this European ideal are three things: the existence of well-stocked corner grocery shops, free time after work, walkable neighborhoods.

Guess what three things don't exist in much of the US?

Interesting points R228. The American obsession with bigger and better is curious in how deep-rooted it is. Here on DL, any Tasteful Friends post for a vast quiet as a tomb pre-war apartment of a townhouse for sale, nevermind that it may the luxury of trees in front and a private terrace or rear garden, it's guaranteed that some posters will dismiss the property out of hand because it has adjoining apartments on the floors above and below, or houses on either side. The vision of 5-acres with no neighbors in sight is imprinted in many Americans, if not in the stamp of the latests in suburban McMansions than in some other expansive view. Maybe as some have observed it dates back to Westward Expansionism where settlers in wooded areas first felled all the trees at chest height and let the stumps rot over the ensuing decades -- just to show that the land was their domain.

At the core of that American taste for bigger and better is a sense of insulation, and beyond that a fear, I believe, of loneliness. Americans like having all those extra bedrooms to hold the bags of shit that they bought on sale at one of the umpteen strip malls that form their communities; when they have to chuck the new bags in from outside the room they have a garage sale and start anew. They busy themselves with work and not using vacation days and avoiding friendships because they don't know what to expect of friends, because they don't want the responsibility of maintaining more relationships outside their immediate families. They would rather feign delight at seeing a neighbor or acquaintance and promise that they have to get together than they would take any action to make such a meeting happen. They distrust and avoid friendships. The bigger house, the new bags of shit from TJMaxx, the new bus-sized car to drive the kids to practice after school, telling themselves that they are too central to the functioning of their Fortune 500 company to possibly take a day off - the place would simply fall apart in their absence.

So of course the idea of popping into a store a few doors away and buying the ingredients for the nightś dinner makes no sense. Just as they don't understand stopping to have a coffee or a beer with a friend or acquaintance they've run into, because where would they run into anyone they know outside TJMaxx or work? They don't want to sacrifice lawns too big to manage and garages for small fleets of cars and the distances between houses to live in a tighter grid where they might run into someone they know. FFS, they might actually have to talk to them or something. Americans are a bit creeped out by Europeans with their many circles of friends and their social lives that don't stop dead the moment they have a kid. They don't want to know the woman at the fruit stand, or the guy who runs the corner grocery store, or the baker, or the neighborhood barber, or 'walkability.' They have cars for that shit.

Some Americans like to admire the 'European lifestyle' and sense of community, but in fact it's lip service, something they don't really want at all.

Great--another bullshit thread in which liars lie about the millions they have at their disposal.

You sussed me out! What took you so long R232?

This is a good book. It is a roadmap for some of the elder high-rollers and a cautionary tale for those under 50 who still have a chance to turn the tide.

[quote]You know, 99% of the worlds population do not retire with a million dollars in the bank and they do just fine.

It's true that we could adopt the Darfur Orphan lifestyle upon retirement and "do just fine", but people who have lived a comfortable lifestyle for most of their life can and do worry about becoming so impoverished that they have only enough to sustain them and not enough to retain their accustomed lifestyle.

R227 Thank you for the try at reverse-car salesman psychology. You know people are worried about their futures. It's all over DL threads, just for starters. Yeah, it's easy to hate people who have discipline and forethought, I get it.

Spare me the rest of the world is doing just fine. Next you're going to say you'd be perfectly fine in Gaza or Uganda, living in abject poverty and turmoil but happy "because the material things never mattered much. Seeing another sunrise is enough!"

R231 Wow, you could be me! Complete with Eastern European admin with McMansion dreams and Dad with TWO late model Benzes. Both are defeated in life and NEVER talk about their homes and cars with joy.

You also have the same observations about cultures abroad. People don't need stuff abroad, they need experiences and relationships. Yes, they think America is the land of milk and honey full with money, big homes, and consumer goods. They're fascinated by it, experiment with it, but don't need to live the American dream.

We will retire in Thailand (Northern). We have land and cost of building is around 100K USD (house will be paid in full) Sale of house will pay for new house (and a nice size home!)

Retirement income will be;

Annuity, 6,570.00/Mo Social Security: 6,700.00/Mo Investments: 2,560.00/Mo Total: $15, 830 USD Thai Baht is 580,000. Living well on 65K baht. This will fluctuate with the U.S./Baht rate

Seventy billion zillion dollars

That's the only plus to having a partner or a husband: pooling your resources.

r238 how are you handling citizenship? Can you stay full time or do you have to leave for a certain amount of time every year?

There are many plusses to having a partner or a husband.

Hardly the only one, R240. But you do you and we’ll manage us.

[quote] That's the only plus to having a partner or a husband: pooling your resources.

Well, with a wife you also get a cook and a live-in maid.

The only one, imo, R243--but yes, you do you.

That's certainly your opinion, R242.

R241, I simply apply for either retirement visa or marriage visa. As of right now, there is no marriage equality but that will change this year. I simply become an expat.

Retirement visa? Does that mean I could apply for residency in the EU if I showed financial means to sustain and insure myself?

For the people feeling depressed reading this type of DL thread: inherited money.

My parents died relatively young and my siblings (4, total) inherited money from our mom. (Dad died first.)

No, it wasn't enough to retire on, but it gave each of us a cushion.

This is the "secret" that hardly anybody talks about.

Anyway, I still do not own real estate.

Point is: don't feel like you failed in life because you don't have $__X__ saved up by now. A lot of us have inherited money.

[quote] Point is: don't feel like you failed in life because you don't have $__X__ saved up by now.

So your advice is that people should lie to themselves about their failure. They’ll still be poor, but they can blame fate instead of their life choices.

[quote]Retirement visa? Does that mean I could apply for residency in the EU if I showed financial means to sustain and insure myself?

Maybe R248, each country has its own rules and these are in a state of change: Italy, Portugal, Spain, France, Slovenia, and Greece are all options offhand, but there are others. Many countries don't have a retirement visa as such; instead they allow people of any age who are financially self-sufficient (standards and rules vary considerably by country) to obtain residency, which status can sometimes be a path to citizenship. Until very recently, Portugal and Spain 'golden visa" programs that awarded residency and sometimes citizenship for substantial investment in real estate or a business in the country, but the EU looks poorly on these buy residency/citizenship programs. Instead, 'non-lucrative visas' and similar programs in which the applicant demonstrates financial self-sufficiency and agrees to pay for private health insurance are now the standard option -- the rules vary considerably one country to another, and the rules are subject to change.

Most EU nations grant considerable rights with residency status and these sometimes include permanent resident an/or citizenship status paths.

The article below has a quick overview, but there is vast info online.

R235 = Donald J Trump

R250 thinks money is the only way to describe success. I have news for you, success is being happy in life. Many people who are dirt poor have found happiness over many people who are rich, bitter, scared and angry.

Not r250, but while I agree that money is not a necessary element of happiness, nor a measure of success outside of money counting.

The idea that rich people tend to be bitter, scared, and angry applies to a minority. Not having to worry about paying for a place to live, not having to save money to buy furniture or art to fill it; not having to worry about being able to afford the best health care or a private hospital room or the cost of medications or treatment; not having to worry about holding onto a job for X more years until you can afford to retire; freedom of movement and ablity to travel where you want when you want; not having to weigh the expense of a marriage you want out of; not having to keep an eye on routine expenses...yes, one can become accustomed to these luxuries, but not having to worry about commonplace things (for more people) creates a baseline of comfort and ease that's foreign to those who do have to take much care with their money. Real money washes away a million little what-ifs and just-in-case worries. Most of the people with money enough not to have to worry about "small" concerns simply don't. They have the luxury not to do.

Life choices, the specific societal value of one’s abilities and random chance all contribute to wealth/poverty.

R229 sorry about your losing your 101-yr old father during Covid. Being kept away from saying goodbye while terminally sick parents/loved ones died alone in hospitals or other facilities was the cruelest consequence of the Covid pandemic, imo.

Dignitas doesn’t provide a fancy carbon-monoxide sphere r174. They do provide rigorous gatekeeping, and a prescription to be taken under supervision in a modest flat near Zurich. Oh, and the client has to be compos mentis on the day of.

R257 That carbon monoxide egg option might be a variant of the mechanism featured in a film called Soylent Green, where a character played by Edward G. Robinson is euthanized in a podlike structure as Carlton Heston observes and says goodbye. Maybe that mechanism of euthanasia has been mythologized since that time.

Dying is not that complicated, they do it every day of the year for pets in a matter of minutes. It just takes a shot and boom, gone. If it's ok for them, then why not you?

R257 to be injected in that modest flat will still cost you $12.000.

Who cares if it costs $12,000? It's not like you'll be doing any spending after that.

Really. Twelve thousand (plus airfare!) seems like a very small price to pay for the peace of mind of not dying a long, agonizing death.

[quote]Twelve thousand (plus airfare!) seems like a very small price to pay for the peace of mind of not dying a long, agonizing death.

And remember to price the often cheaper round-trip option as well, regardless of the intent not to use it!