Baby Reindeer

Nice link OP

Where did you watch it, OP? Is it a movie or what?

Sorry , I watched it on Netflix. It is based on a true story of a stalker and a producer rapist. There’s also a trans woman to top it all off. The trans woman is the only sane character.

Thanks, OP. I just watched the first episode. The stalker woman is too much of a caricature, and the lead actor looks quite a bit older than 33.

Here he is, looking forty five at least

Giving "Super Hans" from Peep Show vibes. Very druggy-looking.

It was really good. The fourth episode was harrowing, but great tv.

I turned it off after #4. All of the characters are repulsive. The male lead looks covered in dirt and sweat.

I watched it and still can't figure out if I liked it.

I liked it. It was honest about abuse, loneliness, shame, pain, all that funny stuff.

I just watched the whole series and thought it was amazing!

When I saw the thread title I thought this would be a dollface thread.

A bit painful to watch at times, but yes, a relatable story about abuse, loneliness, shame, and the consequences of making bad decisions.

The ending wasn't what I expected, which is almost always a good thing. I couldn't help but yearn for someone to show Martha some real compassion, offer her some actual help. She is also a victim, never summoning the power to overcome her damage. The violent abuser is allowed to hold on to his power, and gets a pass. The world is unjust.

[quote]I couldn't help but yearn for someone to show Martha some real compassion, offer her some actual help. She is also a victim, never summoning the power to overcome her damage.

Which is how Richard Gadd really felt about his stalker. He said the police accused him of harassing them because he kept pushing on why his stalker wasn't getting the help she needed; why weren't there social services in place to address people like her.

r14 I understand he had good intentions, but that's not really the job of the police. He should have been pestering the social workers and the politicians instead. The police don't have the time to deal with people bitching about how the system is set up.

Fell into this by accident and was hooked. I was frustrated with his constant vacillating between sympathy and anger. He considers himself 'empathetic' but his actions seem cowardly. He's afraid of losing her attention while complaining about her attention all the while.

R12, me too. I was expecting some adorable baby reindeer pics!

I thought it was a train wreck. The trans actress was hideously bad. The stalker character was a caricature over the top. It felt like an Edinburgh solo show on Netflix for the final episode’s monologue. I didn’t care about the main character.

Oh ok I didn’t realize there was another episode. The scene with his parents was extremely touching actually and I sympathized with the main character at that point. Overall though I still wasn’t a fan.

It wasn’t perfect but I have to say I’ve never seen anything like this. It was a roller coaster ride.

Episode 4 was a tough watch as others have said. But then later he went back to the apartment and worked with him again? Mad.

I've got three episodes to go. I'm enjoying it even tho I kinda hate when people play themselves. I don't know...It just takes me out of it a little bit. I also feel like there's A LOT of embellishment, but it's so well done.

Now, I want to know what ACTUALLY happened here. Every FUCKING thing from when he received the first wacky text message to the end of it without the dramatization. The actual events. He handled this terribly.

Agreed r22

Also...I became increasingly intrigued by Martha's story instead of his story - despite my empathy for him. And yes he should not have played himself.

My hunch after watching the whole thing is that the real situation it was based on was deeper than a stalker/victim situation.

It was probably more like a weird friendship where he was fascinated with her weirdness and his ego darkly fed off her attention (which he does go into detail and admit throughout the series, a lot at the end actually).

It just feels like some of the bad situations (him peeping in her window, emailing her that he wanted anal, etc.) he re-frames and over-explains as himself not having no choice in the moment, or not really at fault. He protests too much. When the reality might have been messier and he may have been goading her on for the thrill of it.

I feel like the stalker/victim roles in the real case may have been slightly interchangeable at times, even though she was clearly the worst one and was nuts, and the one perusing him.

It took me two days to get through it and as soon as it was finished I immediately googled to find out what I could about the real case.

I was stunned to find out the actor was the actual guy! I had no idea.

Richard Gadd has major BDF

R26 I think he's cute. I like tall, geeky, awkward dudes...who like transwomen, apparently.

It lost me when he was peeping in her window. He’s a mess.

People seem to be trying to find the true identity of his female stalker from the story, but the real intrigue is the industry guy who drugged and assaulted him. Much more at stake revealing someone like that.

Gadd clearly had a hand-up at some point in the television industry.

What is the man’s identity?

Looking through Gadd’s old comedy YouTube posts and online presence is a rabbit hole.

Probably buried in the comments somewhere on one of these old posts is his real stalker.

I have no stake in this show which I haven’t watched

But this is the most autistic fucking face i have ever seen

That’s all

Dude is definitely hot, for those that are into tall, gangly, arty guys who are kind of a mess. Just my type! 😋

He’s definitely doing the gay press. This interview in Attitude just dropped…

I stumbled on this after waking at 2am on Saturday and watched the whole series. I enjoyed it and it was very roller coaster with the emotions. I fail to understand how his comedy got better and he developed an audience. I actually liked the trans character the most.

I thought the actress playing the trans character was terrible for most of their onscreen time.

The trans character was so idealized that it would be hard to play her without broad strokes. She was immaculately groomed, educated, successful, strong, principled and without any apparent flaws. What did she see in that stinky looking derpy mess? She with her manicured hands and martinis, sure Jan.

That makes sense r36. I couldn't believe the character and it may not have been the actress but the writing.

His comedy act was horrible.

I think that was the point r38. He wasn't very good.

A behind the scenes featurette.

The part of the story for me where all reality broke down was when he googled her name and found she had a well-documented past of criminal stalking just like she had begun doing to him… and he didn’t go to the police and make a strong request for them to do something.

R24 Nailed it.

FATAL ATTRACTION crossed with PEEP SHOW

You know… he’s being very keen in the press about not revealing the identity of the real stalker the story is based on.

There’s a chance that he may have created the entire ordeal, texts and all, as material for his show that got so big it eventually became a tv series.

Would you be surprised?

Is he related to Paul Gadd?

But, seriously, I'm surprised the tabloids haven't tracked down the stalker and the industry guy.

Maybe the stalker is a composite character of all the crazy chicks this guy dated.

I watched this over 3 nights and it was well made although I can't say I enjoyed it.

The relationship between Donny and Martha was two broken people who abused each other, although obviously Martha's behaviour went way further. Jessica Gunning was fantastic as always but she looked too similar in age to "Donny" when the real life age gap was 20 years.

And the relationship between Donny and Tom Goodman Hill was really well done and you can see Donny being groomed from the outset and he just kept getting deeper into an abusive relationship not just with TGH but all the other men who took advantage of a distressed man with low self esteem.

In a cast of British TV regulars the trans actor was by far the weakest link but I could totally understand why Donny would be attracted to Teri, and I appreciated that there wasn't any pretence that Teri looked and sounded obviously trans. And I can understand why a therapist would be attracted to a man like Donny or whatever his fake profile was.

I finally finished this and did enjoy it a lot. It wasn’t perfect but do agree it was quite unique. That held me.

I think the staking stuff was queer adjacent in a “fag hag” sense. Especially with Donny coming to terms with his queerness.

A lot of the extreme stuff from Martha loosely reminded me of experiences with clingy female friends (overweight, weren’t popular) in my adolescent years. I’m in my 50s, but remember those sharp experiences well. The friendship/crush/resentment cycle. Good times, but also some bad.

Yeah I agree with above posted that there’s probably more (or less) to his various stories than he’s letting on. But a good storyteller often lies the truth.

This show is now heavily being covered by media. The fact that Reddit users or the shameless UK tabloids haven’t unearthed the real female stalker or the industry sexual assaulter guy is… well, I’ll hold my doubts. But still it’s… interesting.

What if the original stalker was actually a man? Maybe that ending was a clue.

I really liked it…except does he imply that his rape was the first time he suspected he was gay?

This guy gets raped in this show???

R53 Yeah, it’s real laugh-a-minute!

[quote]really liked it…except does he imply that his rape was the first time he suspected he was gay?

Yes, in one of the monologues in that episode, I think it’s right after he's getting off on porn, he says he wonders if the rape triggered this attraction to men or just brought it to the fore or something to that effect.

Was it rape-rape/prison-rape or just surprise anal/just the tip rape?

I’ve watched four episodes and actually cracked up far more than I expected at his stand-up routines in 3 and 4: the “it’s Donny Dunn!” wacka wacka music after every punchline at the club and his fro/bodysuit costume and entrance at the Edinburgh Fringe shitty pub were exactly what I needed that evening while watching.

Richard Gadd is actually better looking in real life and the woman who plays Martha (Jessica Gunning) had a great, very funny role in a series called The Outlaws.

To add to my thoughts above, I really love shows like this: they are slightly transgressive, very honest, challenging, kind of terrifying, awkward, embarrassing, and everything else we often want to forget about our bad relationships. I like that he played himself.

And I think Gadd has also been honest IRL about his role in continuing/playing into the stalking at different points in the timeline, which is refreshing.

When I May Destroy You came out the media forced a load of unnecessary Fleabag comparisons on it - written and performed by a woman!

Baby Reindeer reminds me in some ways of I May Destroy You - eg the fallout of a drug induced sexual assault - but I haven’t seen anyone make a comparison.

[quote]And I think Gadd has also been honest IRL about his role in continuing/playing into the stalking at different points in the timeline, which is refreshing.

It really is. I think his taken accountability is admirable and brave, yet I see so many people on Twitter raging about it. They say they have no sympathy for him, he was weak, he should have said no, he participated in it to stroke his ego. No one would ever say that about a woman. But society rarely take male abuse seriously.

He dug the attention she gave him. What a needy fuck of a person.

[quote] No one would ever say that about a woman.

People say things like that to and about women who are stalking and/or rape victims literally every single day.

[quote]People say things like that to and about women who are stalking and/or rape victims literally every single day.

And it is socially unacceptable for people to say and women generally don't say it about other women, but people feel comfortable with openly declaring it when it come to men in that situation.

So when you said "no one would ever say that about a woman", you were just lying?

Many believe the stalker has been identified as a woman named Maria Marchese. See this Google search:

Stalkers are lunatics and complete losers. That story linked at R65 is wild.

R65, Gadd has implied in interviews that his stalker was not imprisoned (at least not over him). He wanted her stopped but not locked up. Marchese doesn’t sound like someone who could inspire pity.

Mmmm, I don’t know, this reads as Augusten Burroughs to me. Fiction and lies disguised as non fiction. Very much “everything but the bloodhounds snapping at her rear end.” It seems like that weird period fifteen years or so ago when all of those confessional non fiction books were exposed as fraud, lies, and half truths. The guy that had to go on Oprah and confess his harrowing book about drug abuse and self torture which she recommended as being a total lie from beginning to end. And that bizarre forty year old woman who entranced Hollywood by writing a book about how she was an abused prostitute teenage boy and then hired some freak of an actress to pretend she was her on a book tour. It was reported about in Vanity Fair for like a year and she was heralded as some sort of hero. I don’t recall the names, but that’s what this reminds me of.

I bet in a few months (with the internet everything is exposed much faster these days,) this guy will be exposed as a fraud. The whole thing just reads as fake to me. My alarm bells went off the moment I read the details, and I felt exactly the same way about the stories I mentioned above.

As a fan (and slight skeptic), I found this interesting:

[quote] What did she see in that stinky looking derpy mess?

I don't understand what any of the characters see in him. His ex gf, her mother, Martha, trans chick... He isn't that funny, talented, or charismatic, or if he is I'm not seeing it in this show.

Thanks for posting that article r69, it cleared up some lingering questions I had after watching the series. As harrowing as his experience may have been, it certainly wasn't the "everything-but-the-bloodhounds-nipping-at-his-rear-end" scenarios that the Netflix series would have you believe.

It seems they real stalker has been identified. She doesn't seem too far off from the character. Supposedly she's still harassing people.

[quote]Not to mention the legal restraining order they had to take out against Fiona Harvey, a former employee of Laura's who stalked her.

[quote]Harvey even called in social workers, claiming Frankie was being ill-treated.

That's Laura Wray, wife of former Labour MP Jimmy Wray.

Also known as Fiona Muir

Imagine being Maria Marchese or Helen Faure or whoever the real stalker is, and suddenly there’s this show about you and then a hit tv show popular all around you. But your real identity is erased.

How does that work from a legal standpoint? I would think that it would be hard to keep fans (of the tv show especially) from revealing the stalker, but even harder to keep the stalker from going to the press to tell their side of the story or enjoy the attention.

R75, the perfect ending would be her getting her own show out of this. The circle of exploitation would be complete.

"Darrien" has apparently been fingered

He was fingered? Did he bleed in the shower afterward?

R77 Wow, really? He even looks like him.

Hmm… the Sean Foley theory does hold water, but until there’s some sort of concrete confirmation it’s just coincidental speculation. Still… very interesting.

This hit the news around April 18th

Richard Gadd just posted this to his IG story

Reading between the lines of Richard Gadd's interview in Variety, I wonder if "Martha" is no longer with us.

[bold]Viewers are wondering what happened to the real Martha. Did part of you feel afraid she’d try to contact you because of the show?[/bold]

[italic]I can’t answer any of that, really. But yeah, due to where things ended in real life, it’s not a concern for me.[/italic]

A female friend of mine said she gave up after one episode because it was “fatphobic.” Where is the fatphobia? Presenting an obsess woman as a stalker character is not fatphobic, but I would be curious to know if I possibly missed something more overt.

A shitty show I turned off. Everyone is repugnant. It seems like everything was thrown in but the kitchen sink.

Warning: episode #4 is intense!

Reddit found this account.

R87 Hmm! This article lists some evidence as to why, based on some of her 2014 tweets:

More tweets and past Twitter bios for Fiona (get your thumb ready to pause it):

R88 Not sure I believe that. Neither of those tweets quoted in the article appear on her timeline. It's possible they've been removed, but as the account hasn't tweeted since 2018 it seems unlikely to still be active. Also if Gadd wanted to change lots of things he wouldn't have made repeated mentions of hanging curtains if that's what she also said in real life.

I liked the show but it was hard to feel a lot of empathy for Donny when he does things purposely to make his life as miserable as possible. He accepts Martha's friend request on FB even though he has just researched her thoroughly as a stalker. He goes to her apartment multiple times - peeps in her window, checks her out at the bus stop, confronts her and even has sex with her after the anal rape text that he claims his friend did. He goes back to the abuser's apartment. This man wants to feel as shitty as possible about himself which the character admits he loves more than he could love his girlfriend.

I don't know why but the show seemed fat-phobic to me at opposite ends of the spectrum: Martha was a large gal and the trans girlfriend Teri wasn't fat-fat but not slim herself. Meanwhile Donny is like a stick insect, he is almost a caricature of a loser from his clothes to his hairstyle to his comedy act. None of them are likeable - I even lost respect for Teri staying in for weeks with Donny and letting him control her. I think this show is SCREAMING for attention and that seems strange to me considering the past abuse. When the abuse and stalking was over, wouldn't you feel relieved? But he missed it so much he kept playing the recordings. That seems like a very sick person, to me.

R90, that's what is so strange about this. Gadd says he's changed a lot about the character and wants to reflect the emotional truth of the situation, not the literal events. Yet the draw for the show is that "this really happened." Every interview he has given emphasizes this, and gives specific facts about the stalking. In Gadd's stage show, he played phone messages from "Martha." I assume not the actual messages in her voice, but who knows? "Baby Reindeer" is set up to make people want to know who the rapist and the stalker are. He's letting the audience track both of them down while claiming that he has nothing but sympathy for "Martha," at least.

R92 Yeah I was wrong. The tweet about needing curtains hanged does exist after all. She seemed to have more than one Twitter account.

[QUOTE] her and even has sex with her after the anal rape text that he claims his friend did

I don’t think in that Donny had sex with Martha in the show. He was imagining fucking Martha which is how he finally got it up for Teri and took her to pound town.

Boy, he’s certainly wanted by everybody, isn’t he?

R94 Agreed. If that had really happened, she'd have told the Police about it.

According to the show he never had any sexual relations with Martha, but masturbated thinking of her at one point (shown with him jerking off with a photo of her).

I so wanted to like this show but the principal characters in it are just SO unappealing. The guy lead is too old and not hot enough and that fat girl is obnoxious af. Anyway- good premise, bad execution.

[quote]Reading between the lines of Richard Gadd's interview in Variety, I wonder if "Martha" is no longer with us.

That wouldn't surprise me.

The photo at R87 is exactly how I pictured a stalker of this dude to look like. Life is predictable.

He had to have known that people would turn into Jessica Fletcher after watching this.

Yes, it's bullshit to pretend that the "based on a true story" and incorporating real aspects into the show wouldn't spark any interest in finding out more.

Regarding the identical back story between "Martha" and Fiona Harvey/Fiona Muir I guess it's either a case that he didn't really make any effort to hide her true identity add then lied when the show became huge, or it was a double bluff and they expected people to say "oh it can't be Fiona Harvey/Fiona Muir as her story is identical to Martha and they said they changed it to hide her identity".

Maybe Gadd forgot that Fiona Harvey/Fiona Muir had tweeted his account about hanging her curtains and him not replying to her emails? It would be quite easy for Netflix to have had a dormant twitter account suspended and the tweets inaccessible.

R102

[quote]It would be quite easy for Netflix to have had a dormant twitter account suspended and the tweets inaccessible.

I'm not sure it would be. Elon is pro free speech after all, so if Netflix had contacted Twitter asking for an account to be suspended for the reasons you state, I wouldn't be surprised if they'd have rejected their request to make a point.

I mean, I've reported tweets with homophobic slurs and been told no rule breaks have occurred.

[quote]I'm not sure it would be. Elon is pro free speech after all, so if Netflix had contacted Twitter asking for an account to be suspended for the reasons you state, I wouldn't be surprised if they'd have rejected their request to make a point.

The production was announced in 2020 and started filming in 2022. They had plenty of time to make sure as many parts of the jigsaw were removed.

R104 Maybe they underestimated how determined internet sleuths are. Or maybe they/Gadd didn't really care about exposing the real person. After all, if you really cared about their anonymity the simplest solution would have been to not make the show.

As others have said, I wonder if the real Martha is dead now. That could explain the delay in airing it. After all, there's no special effects in Baby Reindeer - so they didn't need to wait all that time before releasing it.

Is it like I May Destroy You thematically?

Not really R106 - there are themes of sexual assault based on the writer’s real life experiences but that’s it.

IMDY had multiple stories acted out by the supporting cast around consent and sexuality and Baby Reindeer has none of that.

Thanks r107

Richard asked Twitter to leave Sean alone.

But he didn’t technically say it wasn’t Sean.

The backlash has begun

It reminds me of the backlash to the Shit town podcast from Serial. On one hand you’re telling your story, on the other it’s hard to argue you’re not exploiting others, fairly or not, when we can search social media and see a tweet from a disbarred lawyer asking Richard to hang her curtains.

I can't possibly watch this because I had a stalker once and I am currently stalking someone myself, but what does that title refer to – baby reindeer? I thought they were just called calves? Is that not the case?

R112 it refers to a nickname that "Donny's" stalker "Martha" gave him, based on what she says is his likeness to her childhood toy- the only thing that brought her comfort during her miserable childhood. It's Martha's "Rosebud"

R109 If it was Sean, I doubt he'd have included him in a list of people he loves and admires. He even refers to Sean by name, which pretty much exonerates him.

I think he'd have kept that statement generic otherwise.

R114, I disagree. The statement that expresses positive things about Sean very clearly doesn’t exonerate him as the molester. I read that as Richard having moved on with his life, perhaps even recognizing that the facts of the assault aren’t as clear as the show made out (perhaps Richard’s lack of consent wasn’t as black and white) and that he would rather just move forward without rehashing the exact facts (or even being charged with defamation by Sean because the facts aren’t clear enough to support a molestation charge). So he throws Sean a bone that he respects him without clearly saying he wasn’t the assailant.

Baby Reindeer was a superb series. Intelligent, dark, funny and raw. Richard Gadd definitely has “it”…from the first episode I wanted to take him apart and devour him. I understood what the screen writer saw in him: great artistic talent mixed with a sleeping tendency towards self destruction, and that tendency is still there in real life, from his interviews. Richard Gadd will be nominated for multiple Emmys for this series, but he will also get new stalkers. I’m considering buying a plane ticket to the UK, renting a house with a basement and seeing if I can lure Richard into a pit, where I could teach him the meaning of love.

Does anyone know where I can watch MONKEY SEE, MONKEY DO?

I would be interested to see it too r117

A cursory search only turns up the trailer for Monkey See Monkey Do

R117 R118 I would imagine it would “officially” be on Comedy Central’s archives, but they don’t seem to have any (do they still exist?)

I can’t find it anywhere online either. And a search for a BitTorrent on Pirate Bay turns up nothing (maybe someone will upload it now that BR is so popular).

Let us know if anyone finds it anywhere.

Try searching through Reddit

R115 I also wondered, if watching the series, if his lack of consent was really verbalized or made clear to the "abuser" - the drugs and alcohol and passive nature of his lying there looking up at the ceiling make me wonder if he really did want to be there and doing that. Maybe he was trying on his sexuality. I realize incapacitation does not equal consent but he knowingly kept taking the GHB cocktail, after what had happened the first time.

He does specially say “NO!” at one point during one of the assaults. Maybe you missed it.

Who hasn’t ignored a playful “no” when shoving a dry finger into a formerly straight guy’s dirty bunger r122?

[quote]I’m considering buying a plane ticket to the UK, renting a house with a basement and seeing if I can lure Richard into a pit, where I could teach him the meaning of love.

I remember when Luka Magnotta posted here and I worry about some of you bitches.

[quote] He does specially say “NO!” at one point during one of the assaults. Maybe you missed it.

The tv show isn’t a videotape of what happened in real life. He may be concerned now that he can’t prove that he clearly wasn’t consenting and doesn’t want to be hauled into court on a defamation claim that he called Sean a rapist. So he could be throwing Sean a little praise and deflection, even if the character was in fact based on Sean.

The reality could have been a really bad sexual experience, with or without being full on assault, and he dramatised it for optimum suspense for the show.

The rapist is Sam Bain who wrote Peep Show. The stalker is Fiona Harvey.

You are sure it’s not J.K. Rowling r127?

How did Darrien assault Donny? Sucked him off while he was unconscious?

Butt fucked while on an acid trip r129

Thanks, didn’t want to watch it but wanted to understand.

R127

Fiona Harvey (not the environmental journalist) is a Brexiteer. Feh.

I know everyone processes trauma and situations differently but he engaged with his stalker and his rapist a lot more than the average person would or should.

The fact that he had a one night stand with her and masturbated to her photo smack dab in the middle of the stalking ordeal and then returned to his rapist's apartment after having been violated by him multiple times and agreeing to work with him shows that like his stalker and rapist he too is severely stunted with poor impulse control and an even poorer sense of boundaries.

He also comes across as a bit of a sex addict who possibly has a rape fantasy since he became addicted to gay porn and starting fucking other guys left and right after being repeatedly assaulted by that creep.

[quote]The fact that he had a one night stand with her

He didn't have sex with her. That was a fantasy.

The very brief moment (as part of a montage of other events) where he’s seen holding a picture of Martha and appears to be jerking off seems like it was a sort of mistake. Or poorly edited. It’s given a lot of people the wrong idea.

In conversation I’ve had with lots of people about the show they’ve claimed he had sex with her based on that scene. I tell them (nerd here) that no, he’s just masturbating to a photo of her and he thinks it really weird, and that inspires him to finally have proper sex with Terri. They always say they’ll “have to go back and watch it again.”

I think that brief moment in the show is misleading if you aren’t paying attention.

R127 Go on…

There’s a lot of speculation and clue-connecting on the Sam Bain as the rapist theory here.

Just binged all of it last night. I was going to just watch E1. Thought he was a fool, then ended up watching it all the way through. It was really good, but felt one episode too long. What I love is that he's as cray-cray as her.

The show was the best representation of what and why so many stars fell for Weinstein, Spacey, Singer, etc.

Also, this felt like it took inspiration, in the adaptation to TV (It was a play) by I May Destroy You. Now that was one wild ride if you can stick it out. Full of unlikeable characters, but really pulling it all together in the end.

Baby Reindeer was an unusual bit of quality TV from Netflix.

r133 is an idiot. He didn't have a one-night stand with her. It was showing you the fantasy going through his head as he jerked off. he even made it crystal clear in the scene's narration.

More on Sam Bain here. I’m a fan of PEEP SHOW and noticed these details but didn’t piece it together:

Richard Gadd’s new protectors / newly minted stalkers are going to make any rapist / screen writer suspects into a living hell by doxxing him and ruining his life.

[quote] You probably haven’t had very much time to reflect on your experiences. Are you okay?

[quote] It’s definitely time for a holiday… I’ve been going hammer and tongs for almost a decade now and that does certainly take its toll. But at the same time, I’ve reached a phenomenal level of understanding through doing it this way. If I go back to Monkey See, Monkey Do, coming clean about the sexual abuse I went through was more helpful than any therapy.

[quote] There's a sense that fact-finding in true crime creates closure - a neat package of beginning, middle and end. But real-life trauma doesn't have closure, it has evolution. And for Gadd, creating Baby Reindeer (and its pre-cursor Monkey See, Monkey Do) was a way of processing his suffering into something close to healing. Having his story be the biggest show on Netflix right now will already inevitably stir up levels of guilt, shame and discomfort. The no-holds-barred amateur sleuthing from fans risks putting him in the position of having to apologise for sharing his story so sensitively in the first place.

THis response in the article in R142 makes me think the real stalker is dead:

[quote]Your stalker might watch Baby Reindeer. What do you think she’ll make of it?

[quote]I honestly couldn’t speak as to whether she would watch it. Her reactions to things varied so much that I almost couldn't predict how she’d react to anything. She was quite an idiosyncratic person. We’ve gone to such great lengths to disguise her to the point that I don’t think she would recognise herself. What’s been borrowed is an emotional truth, not a fact-by-fact profile of someone.

Notice how he never talks about her in the present tense? Even "I don't think she would recognise herself" would work as an answer to: "If your stalker were still alive, would she realise 'Martha' was based on her?"

It’s shitty then that he did used the same language for Martha as another fan did on Twitter who has a still functioning Facebook account.

Fiona Grant IS his stalker r145

R117 / r119

I’ve searched through the Comedy Central archives and it does not have MONKEY SEE MONKEY DO

This podcast, which dates to February 2020, is an in depth discussion about Richard Gadd’s psyche while he writing and performing MONKEY SEE and BABY REINDEER, and it is quite something. I’m a black hearted bastard and even found this emotionally difficult to listen to.

In this discussion, Richard Gadd talks about a well known technical profession named Matt Brooks that has the entire month long run of MONKEY SEE MONKEY DO on tape. With the worldwide success of Netflix’s BABY REINDEER, I’ll bet Netflix will pay a shitload for those tapes or buy the play from Comedy Central

It's too fat.

Real Martha is still crazy.

But the woman in question, who denied being a stalker when it was put to her by The Mail, said: 'Richard Gadd has got 'main character syndrome'.

'He always thinks he's at the centre of things. I'm not writing shows about him or promoting them in the media, am I? If he wanted me to be properly anonymous, he could have done so. Gadd should leave me alone.'

She said she is considering taking legal action against him.

R149 Expose him, queen!

She should make her own version of events. Netflix, are you listening?

According to wikipedia Richard Gadd is bisexual. Does that just mean that he's bi since he fucks trans girls?

The show explores that he fucked men as well. Fucking trans girls means, to me, pansexual. But yes, he says he's bi.

The trans actor would be a marvellous Jackie Kennedy. Same mannish features.

5 minutes from the play

I thought it was great. It really delved into the complexities of how sexual abuse and rape traumatize the brain. The show didn't try to fit all the pieces together nicely and it didn't give the viewers a resolution, which I appreciated.

As someone familiar with BPD, it struck me that Gadd may have it. The empty feeling he alludes to, the recklessness, the need for admiration - all traits of a borderline personality. Regardless, he's an excellent writer and performer. Personality disordered people get a bum rap. Many artists suffer from such ailments.

I wonder if other victims of the predatory writer will come forward.

I’m actually curious about the non-chronological order of the series in just the one episode where he was assaulted (episode 4). I almost forgot about Martha!

I wonder how it would have flowed if that was the first episode, then the girlfriend troubles, living with his ex’s mom, tries to be a comedian, eventually works in a pub, then we would see later in life why he was so malleable to Martha.

Episode 4 is a big pause, and temporary jump-back.

R156 That would have been a very heavy episode to open with.

I always like my stories to start off with anal rape!

There's gay anal rape? I'll add this to my must-see list now.

[quote]I’m actually curious about the non-chronological order of the series in just the one episode where he was assaulted (episode 4).

I liked the placement of that episode as it acts as a revelation on that event from years earlier informs how/why he engaged with Martha and why he drags his feet on going to the police. It's all jumbled together in my mind now so I don't know if this is from the series or one of Gadd's interviews, but his attitude was if he didn't go to the police on a man who was an actual predator, why would he go to the police about a woman who is doing things out of mental illness.

Episode 4 shows how it impacted his feelings about his sexuality and why he looks for validation, so it really served to paint a bigger picture of his actions/inactions.

Hmm.

In the r149 article, Gadd is saying not to try and figure out who the stalker is. But unless it’s a famous person, how can anyone except those close to him attempt to figure it out?

[quote]In the [R149] article, Gadd is saying not to try and figure out who the stalker is. But unless it’s a famous person, how can anyone except those close to him attempt to figure it out?

Viewers have been trying to figure it out using what was shown in the series. That's why he had to ask them to stop speculating on Sean Foley. People were looking at Gadd's work and looking at certain phrases the show lays out to try to discern who his rapist and stalker were.

R98 So you didn't finish the show because you found the cast unattractive? GOTCHA

This sums up the real life Martha situation as it stands now, and points out a few facts and photos I was unaware of:

She apparently is planning on suing.

Does anyone have a link to her actual FB account where she’s posting stuff about Richard Gadd? I see a lot of fake Fiona Harvey fb accounts and re-posts but can’t find the actual account.

Yes, or just her Facebook name. I also can’t find it.

I’m pretty sure this is it

Damn, that account at R160 sure sounds just like Martha on the show. The incessant posting every few minutes about inane details, the constant misspellings, the obsessions about various tiny things, the defensiveness.

Just skimming through the photos uploaded on the FB page at R169 it would be quite easy for someone in Camden(istan) to identify where she lives from the frequent photos of the park over the road.

25th March 2023: This pain in the ass mentally ill hairdresser London luxe Camden Amy avoid avoid told me green and blue don't go she's a ct nasty little Kosovan horrid spoilt plastic face she offended customers so much she had to close she aye wore black

I’m in the beginning of episode 4. It’s very compelling but I am having trouble because I agree with R41. I would have gotten professional help when I found out a seriously deranged person was stalking me. Maybe the rest of the series will help me understand Donny better.

Just you wait ^

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

I think this is the first official story clearly stating Fiona Harvey/Muir is Martha.

I linked to an old news report at R73. It’s the same victim with the disabled child.

There really was no effort to change the stalker’s back story.

Ugh, this is messed up. I know she's the bad guy here but for someone so mentally ill to be in the spotlight like this is too much.

Wow, this is just getting better and better.

Soon the rapist will unalive himself !

Real life Martha goes on a stabbing rampage!

Richard will immediately start writing Baby Reindeer 2: Martha Got Gunned Down On The Edinburgh Square And I’m Fully Gay

R36 Teri was not seemingly flawless. Did you see those eyebrows?

Fiona’s FB page is gone. It’s dangerous for her to get thrust into the spotlight like this but on the other hand she has a bottomless need for attention and this could shut her up.

R180 And Teri was built like a linebacker

Which he is

Because he’s a man

Undoubtedly Richard Gadd was always the bottom for the real life Teri

The FB page is still there.

I took All The music exams at school And have voice cello and piano

I had lessons through the school

He knows all This cos we discussed it

He knows I can Write

He knows I have a photographic memory

There is no excuse for his behaviour

I watched good dramas etc

He knows I'd never watch mad nonsense for twenty year olds

So just because I went to law school Does not mean I'm Without talent

He ribbed me about singing like susan boyle

I can but I can Also do classical Stuff

Just because I don't doesn't mean I can't

I went t

I want to see a JFK biopic with the actress who played Teri playing Jackie.

I has everything Datalounge hates: fat women. trans women and Eldergays.

Wasn’t the stalker convinced in a court of law? Surely hearing records are publicly available in the UK? How difficult would it be to search the author’s name and stalking?

Fiona Harvey 9m

Meanwhile I'd like to get on with very important things in my life. I'm not some glasgow uni dropout playwright. I'm Not a big fat actress playing. A stalker I'm Pretty damn busy in my own life thank you

R185 meet R176

The Sun have now officially confirmed the stalker is Fiona Harvey.

She is 58, a whopping 24 years older than Richard Gadd.

[quote] And in her latest update, she blasted: "Gadd is no Brad Pitt."

Okay, so you think you're a big Netflix star now? That don't impress me much!

The actor is sexy in an offbeat way. I watched the first episode but will not watch more. I don't want to spend time in this story with these characters.

This is all getting messy!

Yeah… and so much for Gadd’s assistance in multiple interviews claiming they altered her character so drastically she’s nearly unrecognizable from the real person.

She’ll practically a clone!

Also, wasn’t he saying in interviews that “the way things turned out” he was sure nothing would come of further danger from his stalker or repercussions from the show… alluding to some sort of closure hidden from the audience or plot line?

It appears to me she’s very much just out there and is still a loose cannon!

Richard had better a get a body guard, because Fiona WILL NOT BE IGNORED

Meant to watch one episode and the rest later, if I liked it...watched 4 episodes in a row and looking forward to the final 3 later. Its good entertainment..and makes you think. Well done to the actor and writer Gadd...glad for him that its provinga big hit.

[quote]“I have a photographic memory and can memorise huge files. I was top in my school at everything."

She sounds unwell. I mean her past actions show that obviously but still, it seems cruel to put her on blast all over Netflix when she's mental.

Sounds like Gadd had a very naive grasp of the Internet's detecting abilities.

If there is anything else I need to clarify be sure and tell me I've been wantin to set the record straight oh and by the way I knew gadd googled the article years ago because folk who hated hi m told me years ago. They drank in the hawley arms Nd he owed them money. I didn't know he'd written a play till

It was announced on

Bbc breaking new s five years ago hed done it at the fringe

I no longer went into the hawley arms After he had a manic attack

At me one day but week

After week he'd berate me in their that is been in the newspapers

I found this put from staff and customers so

Did friends of mine who all

Want the pub shut down asa

R185 Highly doubt it. Privacy laws are a lot stricter over there.

Why isn't she on Datalounge?

maybe she is r198. There be loonies here.

We’d “oh dear” Fiona into oblivion

R198 R199 R200 The bad spelling and grammar would be a dead giveaway. Plus she'd be posting new threads left and right all hours of the day and trying to flirt with everyone.

I'm pretty sure she's in the Heartstopper threads.

I hope Jessica Gunning wins the BAFTA and Emmy. She’s brilliant.

^ I have a purse she can carry on the red carpets.

Did he ever say why he liked Trans?

R205 I think he is an equal opportunist. He admitted in the show that he's into some pretty weird stuff. He was going to bath houses and getting fucked in bathroom stalls.

The Facebook page linked has been posting since mid 2023 so it’s highly unlikely that anyone created the profile in preparation for the show being a massive hit.

R206 I think he identifies as pan.

[quote]He admitted in the show that he's into some pretty weird stuff. He was going to bath houses and getting fucked in bathroom stalls.

I just took that as out of control behavior resulting from the guy who gave him drugs rather than a specific choice. But I’m only halfway through the show.

[quote]I think he identifies as pansexual.

No. Bisexual.

Interviewer: As your journey with your identity still something that you are working on?

I think the easiest thing is to say bisexual, but it’s a journey. I sometimes change with the tide. I feel very strongly for both. I think we’re just learning to see the world in different ways and not be so rigid about it. And I feel like I’m constantly in a state of flux with my sexuality. Some days I feel a certain way and other days I feel other ways. But every time I land on one, my brain flies off to the other. It’s almost like a restlessness. But maybe that’s what bisexuality is.

I realised quite early on that I used to say, ‘Oh, you have to be one or the other.’ And I believed it was going to be easier for me if I pick one. I tried to identify both ways in my time, and it never worked for me as much as bisexual, really.

The interview with the wife of the MP at R175, and her past experiences with this woman, is very concerning.

Fiona is a nut

I liked this a lot, it is indeed something completely different. A reason for this is because is based on a true story. Scripted tv wouldn’t allow for this two main themes and events of stalking and abuse merging this way, it tends to be more thematically uniform.

It was also a harrowing experience. It took me a while to see the first episodes because he does so many things wrong that you jusr want to scream at him. Episode 4 provides some clarity to this.

I also find him very hot (and can see people find him ugly as well). Stalking and abuse is not necessarily related to beauty or even physical attraction but one thing that is somewhat missing from the series is how clever he is and that is why he can attract so many people (most of the series is he wondering around looking shocked).

Also, very clever how he questions his role in both events and how he keeps repeating obsessive, unhealthy patterns. There is no happy ending.

Finally, i would agree that the sex scene with the stalker is a little bit confusing (it is a phantasy not immediately clear as so).

R213, I’ve read that abusers are drawn to people who’ve already been abused, that they can sense their vulnerability. That’s what made Gadd attractive to Fiona: he was a damaged, tormented person who she could manipulate. It was going to be hard for him to fight back.

I think this show sort of falls apart in the final act. I thought the parents were sort of stupid as characters. Their acceptance seemed contrived, especially the father. I have a feeling that towards the end, he just falls back on the work he did on his one man show rather than fleshing out the story for the screen.

Does nobody ever suggest that maybe he should get some mental counseling? Wouldn’t the NHS give him some counseling?

I honestly thought the bartender in the final scene was gay and Donny was going to stalk him.

[quote]He admitted in the show that he's into some pretty weird stuff. He was going to bathhouses and getting fucked in bathroom stalls.

What is so weird about that?

Sounds like typical behavior for any urban gay man r217

Spoiler: in real life did he go back to his abuser?

[QUOTE] I honestly thought the bartender in the final scene was gay and Donny was going to stalk him.

I thought that was the impression we were supposed to be getting from that final scene: the stalkee may now become the stalker. I don’t think it was accidental that the bartender was played by a very good-looking man.

To be fair, the bartender was very stalkable.

What bartender is going to give a patron a free "double rum & coke"? In the beginning, with Donny it was just a cup of tea.

Donny was much more sexy than fat Martha, hence he deserved that drink