Laurence Luckinbill new autobiography

[quote]Now nearly 90, he’s fully aware his time is limited.

Seems very self-aware.

Didn’t know about the men. Why didn’t he get along with Lucy?

I’d love to read this. Thanks for the heads up, OP!

Just purchased with 1 click for my Kindle.

The joys of technology. No need to get off the couch to spend money.

r2, I think you just answered your own question.

Achieved television immortality as a Columbo murder victim in one of my more favored episodes

Why would he NOT have had problems with Ball. She was an embittered person in her later years and possibly a drunk. Lucie already has suggested she wasn't a walk in the park EVER. Lucy fans are such deluded idiots.

[quote]Didn’t know about the men. Why didn’t he get along with Lucy?

He married Lucie but he had eyes for Desi Jr.

Just Googled him a couple of months ago when I saw him on my MTM show rewatch. His face was familiar but I didn’t know his name.

He’s uncle to the Wachowskis (of Matrix fame).

Has Strasser commented? She posts on Twitter every time a speck of dust flies by.......

Does he talk about his time on The Secret Storm?

R2, He was 17 years older than Lucie, divorced with two young sons and Lucie had already endured a bad first marriage.

Plus, Lucie was pregnant, which hastened the wedding to Larry.

R11, Yes.

R2, Larry’s introduction to Lucy and Gary was to be a dinner he cooked at his apartment.

He foolishly ran out to purchase wine and left food cooking on the stove. It caused a fire in the apartment and the smoke was so bad, Larry, Lucie, Lucy and Gary went to “21” and had dinner there instead.

When the film version of The Boys in the Band was about to be made in 1970, Ray Stark wanted the cast to be name stars, but Mart Crowley and Dominick Dunne insisted that the original off-Broadway cast repeat their roles in the movie, which they did.

Things were not always harmonious among the original cast of The Boys in the Band.

By the time they took the show to London from off-Broadway, three cast members were no longer speaking, but Luckinbill does not reveal which three.

[quote]Things were not always harmonious among the original cast of The Boys in the Band. By the time they took the show to London from off-Broadway, three cast members were no longer speaking

Cliff Gorman had the showiest role. I bet other cast members were jealous that he was getting the attention.

An excerpt from the book.

"When I knew they were safe, I ran for the phone. Grandma Lucy had to know! I found one of the last pay phones in the universe one hundred steps down the hall. I grabbed change from my pocket and dialed the number. Gary answered. I was very excited. I told him the news. He said, in a flat voice, “Uh-huh. Okay.” I asked if I might speak to Lucille. A pause, then he said to Lucille, “Lucy, Lucie’s had her baby.” This he said in a voice devoid of joy or even a frisson of excitement. Lucille came on the line. I told her the news and how proud she could be of her daughter and her courage. She now had a beautiful grandson. In her deep growly voice, Lucy said something like, “Fine, glad to hear it. Finally.” She, too, was flat. No excitement. I thought it was because that’s the way she took such news. That was her. I babbled on, inviting them to come and see for themselves. “Well, we’ll see,” was the response. I had no idea that this moment would become a rift between me and Lucille that would last until she knew she was dying almost ten years later."

Another excerpt.

"We were still living in Hollywood when, on April 26, 1989, Lucille Ball died at seventy-seven years of age. Lucie was shattered. This was a life-changing event in multiple ways—sorrow, regret, the final abandonment, the who am I now? Their relationship had been in crisis when Lucy passed. Truncated. Her mother had been unhappy before it happened. She said that she didn’t want to live five more years. And so, she didn’t. We were just about to return then to New York to try to restore our family to more stable values, to get away from Hollywood’s narcissism and transactional caste-system culture. But Lucie was suddenly saddled with disposing of her mother’s entire estate. "

[quote]But Lucie was suddenly saddled with disposing of her mother’s entire estate.

I condole her.

The end of his 12 year marriage to Robin Strasser.

"I sat next to Robin on the small Victorian love seat, which faced the garden of our townhouse on the Upper East Side. My wife was angry and scared. She had heard from friends that I had French-kissed an actress in the play we had produced together and that I was acting in. And she asked if I had had an affair with a woman I had worked with on commercials a few years back. The time had come. I knew I had to tell her the truth. I confessed all my sins, but not in specifics. I told her that I did not understand myself. I had been unfaithful with a number of women and even with two men—one I had touched and one I had let touch me. She said, “You are a homosexual.” I said, “No.” I didn’t mention the person who had groomed me (in today’s unenlightened words) when I was sixteen and seventeen—the man who had stamped something on my soul, which had not gone away. But now I wanted her to know how sorry I was for all of it. It was over, and I wanted to fix it. To rebuild our marriage. I would go to a psychiatrist to sort this out. And if she would go to counseling with me, maybe she could begin to see that none of this had anything to do with her. She was not the cause of it. I believed, I hoped, we were good parents, good partners. Despite my disastrous behavior, we could fix this. It was an impossible plea for such crimes. It was horrible for her. I hadn’t understood the depth of her need to trust me. I was her hero, and I had betrayed every belief she had. And now, I needed her to trust me. Again. "

Oh brother. Based on R21, a maudlin navel gazer typing out HIS story.

[quote] Now nearly 90, he’s fully aware his time is limited.

I'm pretty sure when I saw Lucie interviewed (during lockdown, I think?) she said Larry's been ill for years.

[quote]This was a life-changing event in multiple ways—sorrow, regret, the final abandonment, the who am I now? Their relationship had been in crisis when Lucy passed.

I've said this for a long time on DL (Lucue and her mom were not getting along at the time Lucy died) and people always argue with me about it.

*Lucie

I'm surprised there's an audience for this

It took Lucy a long time to get pregnant allegedly because of an untreated STD she contracted from her early starlet/escort days or something she got from Desi’s busy ass dick. You’d have thought that she would have indulged her children because of the years she spent trying to conceive but she was so cold at times.

R18 Why do you think they were so non-responsive?

It's hard to tell from the excerpt, but were they being kept up on the progress of the pregnancy and the birth? It sounds like Lucy and Gary were not in the loop.

Untreated STD or multiple abortions?

Obviously this was the first time Larry was calling his MIL from the hospital, if he had to try to locate a pay phone and didn't know where the phone was.

[quote] I'm surprised there's an audience for this

I don;t think there is outside of the five people on Datalounge thrilled about it.

Um, I think there are a lot more people who are interested in Lucille Ball and her family.

(But it's not as if it's going to be a best seller...)

So who were the men he fucked?

[QUOTE]! I found one of the last pay phones in the universe

What? He had trouble finding find a pay phone in 1979? I can't believe the editors let that one slip through. The must be right out of college or dense.

Not that the thread is about Lucie, but I always wondered why, after her good reviews for Broadway, and a movie (The Jazz Singer), and a failed sitcom, her career went down the shitter. She basically does small venue appearances in Palm Springs, where she lives.

(Or, in this case, Irvine...)

(I guess she actually answers it in this interview.)

Lucie is delightful and generous.

I’ve met her several times.

Vivian Vance

She seems cool.

(Lucie)

I actually wonder if Lucie was more popular with critics than with the public in general.

I remember in school all the guys seemed to have crushes on her from Here's Lucy. I couldn't stand how she screamed her dialogue, but apparently that's what Mom wanted.

Lucie put her career on hold to be a mom. No, really, she did. I saw Larry and Robin in Chapter Two on Broadway and, I think, they had already divorced. They were both great but a play about two lost souls, a widower and a divorcee, jumping into a new relationship seemed like an odd choice for a divorced couple. Later in the run they stopped performing together with him going on opposite her standby and her opposite his. Then Robin left the play. It was around that time he met Lucie.

She hasn't been ambitious as a performer, but Lucieand Desi Jr. were certainly able to cash in with their Desilu Too stuff and other endeavors based on their parents' fame.

[quote]Untreated STD or multiple abortions?

Leave me out of this.

The memoirs of the divorced and fairly undistinguished son-in-law of a famous comedienne who has been dead for thirty-five years? Copies will simply fly off the shelves!

He and Lucie aren't divorced.

I have to admit that I love these little out of the way autobiographies. Because the person isn't A list there are usually more revelations and interesting tidbits about the things that orbited around them. I don't care about the Broadway stuff, but I am interested in what he has to say about Lucie, Lucy, Gary, and the soap queen in me wants to know what he said about The Secret Storm and Love is a Many Splendored Thing and Robin Strasser

One of the many things I love about DL: It's the last place on earth where anyone is still discussing "The Secret Storm."

He was dubbed by showbiz folk as “Lucky Larrenbill.”

He had sex with men- fascinating 🤨

Basically in the movie he was playing himself- closeted bisexual.

He was the only character in the movie whom I found sexually attractive.

Who will play him in the Lifetime movie?

Yes, yes, but does he discuss his late in life triumph as Sybok?

R46, The book is only available in paperback or Kindle, no hardcover, but Lucie has been promoting it on her Facebook page and says there’s an audio version in the works.

Larry fathered four sons and a daughter between both wives, but none of his offspring are attractive.

How is it Lucie has not a trace of resemblance to either of her parents?

As a huge BITB fan, I would love to read this. LB is the last living survivor related to the first run of the play.(including playwright and director)

R48, He claims in the book that the original title for the soap was “The Storm Within”, but their sponsor was a laxative and they weren’t happy with that title.

[quote]How is it Lucie has not a trace of resemblance to either of her parents?

She does.

Lucie admitted to Larry that she had a brief affair with an unnamed fellow cast member from “The Jazz Singer” around the time she became pregnant with their first child, which caused Larry to question if he was the baby’s father.

R18 Cliff Gorman and his wife cared for Boys in the Band co-star Robert La Tourneaux during the last months of his life. He died from AIDS.

I’m a big fan of Gorman

R51 except he wasnt closeted in the play/film

Interesting that he was married to RS, considering RS's main pairing on OLTL was Tuc Watkins, another bisexual actor who played Hank in the last run of BITB

R59 She does? Which one(s)?

Larry, Lucie and the five children, two via Robin Strasser.

I can certainly see a combined resemblance, r63, I guess you can't.

Jesus, I had no idea he was that old.

Larry and Lucie’s first born son, Simon, is an artist and gay.

Rare dramatic scene with Lucie and Lucy.

Lucie is better on stage. She doesn't translate well to film.

R60, I doubt it was Neil Diamond or Laurence Olivier.

R65 Okay, no problem.

In some ways Lucille was hardhearted to the point of pure evil. I've always attributed it to the fact that when she took over Desilu after she and Desi divorced she saw she would have to become the bitch of all bitches to make the powerful men she had to deal with respect her. After she sold the studio and the pressures of running a studio were past her I think the cold demeanor had become part of her very being.

[quote]I've always attributed it to the fact that when she took over Desilu after she and Desi divorced

I think she came up the hard way and that made her hard and bitter. She rented out her pussy. Studio execs pimped her out. Then she met Desi and he treated her like shit.

Lucie looks like many of the Cuban ladies in Miami. Taller though.

Some reflections on co-stars.

"I got to work with Charles Bronson in one of his series of hard man detective movies. It was a potboiler, as everyone involved in it knew. But it was great working with Bronson. I was the villain. In his trailer, Charley told me a very sad story. His wife, Jill Ireland, was fighting the cancer that eventually took her away. He loved her deeply, and he loved his brother, an alcoholic living on Skid Row in Los Angeles. I had enormous respect for Charles Bronson.

* * * Buddy Ebsen was a marvelous character-lead kind of actor. He treated me to shots of vodka in his trailer between scenes—every scene. I was, of course, the bad guy. * * * I was a good guy who turned crazy and tried to kill my wife

—Cloris Leachman—in a TV movie. I didn’t get away with it. But she tried to screw up my close-up by reaching into the shot and removing my glasses. She didn’t get away with it, either.

* * * I was Mary Tyler Moore’s TV boyfriend very briefly. My TV son didn’t like her pizza. Neither did I.

* * * With Shirley Jones, I was a perfect, long-suffering husband who endured her gambling habit. Who couldn’t like Shirley?

* * * I had the good karma to be invited to appear on Angela Lansbury’s long running show, Murder She Wrote, four times. I was a bad guy twice and a police detective twice. I could have arrested myself. Angela was a class act. She had proven herself in every medium of theater, movies, and television. She was a charming and genuine actress with a great comic sense, a singer, a dancer, and a serious artist. I always tried to give depth, intelligence, and sincerity to an outing made so thoroughly pleasurable because of Angela. She loved actors and acting. Working with her was an acting lesson. To maintain a character and deepen it, playing a formula detective show over many years, is challenging. To deepen the work, you need good writers. To hold on to your character, you can’t let down. You must keep asking questions of motivation and factual sense. Angela did that. She required hip replacement surgery toward the end of the show’s run, but she returned to her show and to Broadway. Some performers never let you down. "

As a young gay who grew up in the 60s I had a crush on Luckinbill from Boys in the Band because, of all the cast, he was the only hot daddy type with some warmth and kindness and straight-acting (well, maybe he and Peter White). I'm sure there are others of my generation who can relate to that crushing.

R58, I think that story is true — it’s been making the rounds for decades.

How is he related to Thad Luckinbill?

R77 Cousin

was Mary Tyler Moore’s TV boyfriend very briefly. My TV son didn’t like her pizza. Neither did I.

How to call someone a cunt without calling them a cunt.

[QUOTE]I had no idea that this moment would become a rift between me and Lucille that would last until she knew she was dying almost ten years later."

I don't understand how/why calling your mother-in-law to let her know about the birth of her grandson could lead to a decade long rift.

R48 I'm with you on the out of the way autobiographies. To think there are three books whose content more or less turns on playing backgammon with an elderly Lucille Ball: Lucy in the Afternoon by Jim Brochu, I Loved Lucy by Lee Tannen, and Paula Stewart's Lucy Loved Me (which is admittedly about more than backgammon, they were friends for a long time and co-stars).

[quote]But it's not as if it's going to be a best seller...

How do YOU know?

[quote]As a huge BITB fan, I would love to read this. LB is the last living survivor related to the first run of the play.(including playwright and director)

Reuben Greene (Bernard) is still alive, although he apparently dropped off the face of the Earth, unless you have evidence to the contrary.

R80 Because she acted like she didn't give a shit?

There's a lot more than he's telling. It sounds like the Mortons were not happy with him before the phone call.

[quote]How is it Lucie has not a trace of resemblance to either of her parents?

She had more of a resemblance to Daddy before getting her nose thinned. Later Desi Jr clipped his Arnaz nose too.

R12, Odd that Desi, Jr. and then wife Linda Purl are standing between the bride and groom in that wedding photo.

Let’s get back to me.

Their daughter, Kate, is a big girl.

R86 I still don't really see it. I would never say, looking at her, that I could tell she was related to either of them if I didn't know it.

A true beauty in his youth.

Larry looks like Jack Weston now.

Lucie is still close with Linda Purl who is now getting what's left of Bobby Ewing dick.

An Arkansas hillbilly who made good.

The photo at R91 is giving me definite young James Best vibes.

Says it all.

Why haven't Lucie and Desi Jr. written a "Lucy Dearest" book?

Because, r97, Lucille wasn't Joan. Although (technically) Joan was Lucille.

Because, R97, despite the challenges of having Lucille Ball as their mother, they both seem ultimately to have loved and respected her.

Back in the day, Desi Jr looked like a potato next to Dino Jr.

Lucie told a story that the day Lucy died, the first person at their house of Robin offering to take the kids so Lucie and Larry could take care of things

I recall Lucy mocking Desi, Jr.’s marriage to Linda Purl on the Tonight Show, telling Johnny “He was married for ten minutes”.

Would *you* want Lucille as a mother-in-law?

R103 - Liza

R103, Patty Duke

[quote]Why haven't Lucie and Desi Jr. written a "Lucy Dearest" book?

Because they were smarter than that ungrateful hag Christina.

Linda Purl is now partnered with Patrick Duffy aka "Bobby Ewing."

I love Lucie Arnaz. I worked with her a couple of times. She's gorgeous and extraordinarily talented.

I wish she had worked more.

R108, maybe in theater she's talented, but I recall a guest spot she did on Murder She Wrote where she was supposed to be a New York policewoman in the vein of Cagney and Lacey, with former child star Patty McCormack as the Sharon Gless partner, and Arnaz was embarrasingly awful with her faux NEW YAWK accent, which sounded like she spent all of 5 minutes preparing. I could only imagine what Angela Lansbury thought being in scenes with her. It was awful.

[quote]Why haven't Lucie and Desi Jr. written a "Lucy Dearest" book?

Because they know not to tarnish the image of a universally loved actress like Lucille Ball. The character "Lucy" is loved, and the public combines the two. Lucie hasn't told the HALF of what growing up and working with Lucy was like.

R109. Not as awful as her mother was in Mame

How did I not know he was married to Dorian Lord?

Thank goodness he didn't get his paws on me!

I know Larry and Lucie live in Palm Springs. I remember seeing Lucie complain about the price of pizza at a restaurant on NextDoor so she seems to be of relatively frugal means....I don't think Lucy left her an endless wellspring of money.

Lucille was the frugal one, r114. When Mame started filming she invited Jane Connell over for dinner. Jane got there and they walked past past Gary who was already eating his dinner...lobster. Lucille told Jane - "You and I are having leftovers".

Desi Jr was 16 when he had his first child with a 21 yr old model. He has another child with his second wife who passed away about 10 yrs ago. He almost had a third but Patty Duke changed her story.

What does god need with a starship?

Lucy and Gary sound like they forged the perfect misery loves company marriage.

R101, what happened to Gary? Wasn’t he supposed to take of things?

Gary remarried a few years after Lucy died. He passed away in 1999 at 74.

R119. I wondered the same thing.

Maybe at the end she was smart enough to recognize his scheming ways..

Remember when Lucy did a Mame crossover on her tv show?

Lucy Carter goes to Lucille Ball’s dressing room and Lucille Ball turns out to have black hair. But Gary Morton mistakes Lucy Carter (redhead) for Lucille Ball (black head).

Carole was in that episode as well.

Desi isn't Sean Astin's father. His father was Patty's second husband Michael Tell. They were married for about a week.

So happy

I'll have what she's having.

Will his book sell better than Barbra's ? Jason Gould wants to know...

Did Barbra's book "sell"?

Lucie has always had such a matronly, un-glamorous style, both clothes and hair. I mean, look at R96... My God, woman, you are the daughter of two Hollywood legends. Throw the Chico's catalog away.

Interesting.

It's true that Lucy was frugal, she never updated her house that she lived in for a million years. People said it was like walking into a time capsule. Here's a pic of Lucy in her living room in '85. Check out the rotary phone. Can't you just smell the years and years of Pall Mall smoke?

What is name of book? Can't find it at Amazon?

Totally disagree about Lucie and her look. She looks like a healthy normal woman, not some Hollywoodized over-inflated and stretched and bleached bimbo. She;s in her early 50s and looks at least 15 years younger. Hard to imagine her married to a 90 year old.

Early 50s? Lucie is 72.

Sorry, IM meant to say early 70s!

R120, Gary was a Jew not a Catholic, and DIED twelve years after Lucy, not a “few years” after. There’s no excuse why he left all of the Lucy after death shit to her daughter, if that’s what he did.

Maybe that's the way Lucy set it up in her will?

Clearly, Lucy named Lucie the executor of her will.

There were 3 options, Lucie makes the most sense. Would you have left Desi Jr. or Gary in charge of the fortune?

Gale Gordon was the obvious choice.

What the fuck did Lucy ever see in Gary? Did he even do any actual work for a living?

Gary was the stepfather. I think it was more proper for Lucie and Desi Jr. to deal with the details.

Gary's 1974 movie was nominated for Best Picture... unlike Lucy's.

[quote]What the fuck did Lucy ever see in Gary?

Somebody she didn’t have to have sex with and who she could boss around.

Gary Morton (real name Morton Goldaper) was a comedian on the Borscht belt circuit back in the day. After he married Lucille he became a producer at her studio.

[quote]Gary was the stepfather. I think it was more proper for Lucie and Desi Jr. to deal with the details.

Deaths in the family can be quite a lot, but sit back with popcorn and watch the drama when the second or third wife/husband takes over the arrangements/estate. Ooooh boy!

[quote]What the fuck did Lucy ever see in Gary?

Someone who needed her more than she needed him and she needed an escort for events.

I find that room comfy, r131...and familiar.

My grandmother on Lucie Arnaz, when watching an episode of "Here's Lucy" with me:

"She's not really what you would call a petite girl, is she?"

[quote]Deaths in the family can be quite a lot, but sit back with popcorn and watch the drama when the second or third wife/husband takes over the arrangements/estate. Ooooh boy!

This has happened to friends of mine and also in my extended family. DRAMA CENTRAL. It's all out war most of the time.

Lucy was introduced to Gary by actress Paula Stewart when both were appearing together on Broadway in WILDCAT, fresh from Lucy's divorce. Stewart was married to comedian Jack Carter and both felt that Gary was exactly the kind of simple reliable no-fuss man Lucy needed after the heartbreak and frustration of Desi.

FWIW the marriage by all accounts seemed to work and made Lucy happy. She wasn't looking for romance and great sex, simply companionship and someone who wouldn't challenge her and could deal in the mundane everyday details in which she wasn't interested. While Gary did indeed become a grotesque bewigged and leathery troll in his later years, he was respectably good-looking when he married Lucy. I think I sort of remember him appearing as a stand-up comic pre-Lucy on TV when I was a child.

Of course, my view may be completely challenged by Luckinbill in his memoir. So I'm eager to read it.

[quote]"She's not really what you would call a petite girl, is she?"

Lucille was tall. Lucie lost the baby fat after she got older...and she inherited Mom's gams.

Desi Jr was chubby when he was younger, but at some point he lost his baby fat and started fucking everything.

[quote]While Gary did indeed become a grotesque bewigged and leathery troll in his later years,

A DLer in a long-ago Lucy thread described Gary as "the kind of 70s guy in polyester pants who just finished stinking up the bathroom something fierce."

I always think of that.

Lucy never moved after her divorce, did she? So Gary was stuck sitting on the toilet Desi sat on and sleeping in the bed Desi slept in.

Gary Morton when Lucy married him.

[quote]Gary Morton when Lucy married him.

Just by looking at Lucy, you can tell that photo has been heavily touched up.

[Quote] Lucie hasn't told the HALF of what growing up and working with Lucy was like.

what's the other half?

[quote]So Gary was stuck sitting on the toilet Desi sat on and sleeping in the bed Desi slept in.

That bed was good as new, except for a few cigarette burns, and, in any case, I didn't marry him to SLEEP in it.

Per Lucie in her intro to her mother's autobiography, she and Desi Jr. were her father's only heirs (Desi's second wife predeceased him) and though Gary "had been carefully and lovingly provided for," Lucie and Desi Jr. were in charge of the estate.

My understanding is that Gary offerecd incredibly detailed and astute career guidance to Lucy which is often overlooked when examing her career. Much is made over Desi's role in the devolpment of the tv show and production company, but few mention the incredible management brought to Lucy's career from the 1960s onward. I'm surprised he didn't get more offers to manage other celebrities careers (or perhaps he did and Lucy advised against it).

[quote]My understanding is that Gary offerecd incredibly detailed and astute career guidance to Lucy

Which she promptly ignored. That last sitcom was a dud and “Stone Pillow” was a huge mistake.

Maybe “Stone Pillow” could have been better if she had a director who could force her to stop being “Lucy”. There’s a scene at the beginning where the bag lady is washing off with a hose. And Lucy is sitting there mugging for the camera and doing physical shtick like she’s Lucy Ricardo.

Lucie wouldn't have been on her mom's TV show that long (or at all) if Lucy was as bad as Crawford. Desi did it for two seasons until his own career started taking off. Lucy gave them the choice to do the show or not.

R154 They just might have bought a new bed...

[quote] She wasn't looking for romance and great sex, simply companionship and someone who wouldn't challenge her and could deal in the mundane everyday details in which she wasn't interested.

How would you know she wasn't looking for romance or great sex? How do you know they didn't have great sex?

[Quote] That last sitcom was a dud and “Stone Pillow” was a huge mistake.

Actually, Stone Pillow was a success and received a lot of attention at the time and Lucy appeared on talk shows to promote it.

The movie was broadcast on CBS in November 1985. The film received mixed reviews but was a ratings success. The telecast ranked 9th out of 68 programs airing that week and brought in a 23.3 rating and a 33 share.

The success of the film led Ball to make one last attempt to return to her comedy roots with Life with Lucy the next year.

Stone Pillow promo

The sitcom may have been a hit if Lucy would have allowed herself to not fall back on her old tricks. No one wanted to see an 80 year old doing the same old gags. She should have looked to what the Golden Girls were doing, but she may have been too much of a prude for that. She would have been great in the Eileen Heckart role on The 5 Mrs Buchanans.

[quote]Actually, Stone Pillow was a success and received a lot of attention at the time and Lucy appeared on talk shows to promote it.

It was the 80s version of Riding the Bus with My Sister. It may have received a lot of attention and everybody watched it, but it’s still a piece of crap.

Linda Lavin wants to reboot "Stone Pillow" as a musical, "There's a New Girl in Shanty Town!"

Interesting interview from 1971 by host Dick Cavett (who was handsome then). Lucy, Lucie and Carol Burnett...

There’s a review on Amazon by a “Lucie Luckinbill”, saying “I was not prepared for how much emotion this book brought out in me. This is a big book.”

Well, Lucie L. would know.

I can guarantee you "My Name is Barbra" was bigger!

It even says verified purchase on the Lucie Luckinbill review. He didn't even give her a free copy.

[quote] what's the other half?

It was nothing but cream and strawberries, Rose.

R170 I love that interview, Lucille is in one of her rare good moods, and she looks gorgeous. When the 3 women gang up on Dick and try to get him to open up about his personal life it's even funnier. One of my favorite DC interviews.

See, you all say I'm the coldhearted bitch but I'm love personified next to that ole fake henna haired cunt.....

"My mother, the actress! I feel like Lucie Arnaz Luckinbill!"

--Lisa Simpson, "A Streetcar Named Marge"

R176 This is when celebrity interviews on talk shows were actually interesting and entertaining. These days, the hosts (Kimmel, Fallon, Meyers, etc) keep the spotlight on themselves and don't give it to the guest. Nor do they ever ask the guest interesting questions like Cavett did with Burnett and Ball. I miss those old talk shows.

If anyone has seen the recent interview with Lucie Arnaz and her daughter, you will notice her daughter takes right after her in interviews - and she's chubby like Lucie was back in her early 20s.

I'm astonished that Lucille wouldn't have provided for Desi in her will, they built an empire together and he was the father of her children...that's just ruthless and cold.

R171, You can post a review on Amazon using any name you choose.

R132, You can’t see the image at OP?

Bless your heart, r181.

[Quote] It was nothing but cream and strawberries, Rose.

R175 How would you know?

[QUOTE]Just by looking at Lucy, you can tell that photo has been heavily touched up.

Goodness, you're not wrong, r156. When I saw that photo, I thought "Wow, when FaceTune (or whatever the app is) wasn't available, the studio pros were King."

I shared an office with a photo retoucher in the 80s - her airbrush skills were fascinating.

[quote]I'm astonished that Lucille wouldn't have provided for Desi in her will, they built an empire together and he was the father of her children...that's just ruthless and cold.

Desi died three years before Ball did.

Also, people almost [italic]never[/italic] make provisions in their wills for their divorced spouses.

Desi received a substantial amount when Lucy bought out his share of Desilu in 1962, but he blew it on gambling and his lifestyle.

Wasn't Desi back at Desilu producing The Mothers-in-Law after Lucy became the CEO of Desilu?

Desi Arnaz Productions

United Artists Television

Carole Cook in the Dean Martin Roast of Lucille Ball said:

Gary Morton brought something to Lucy's life that she never had with Desi: Boredom.

R191: It was filmed at Desilu. Lot's of old ILL hands involved including one of the Producers, Script Consultants, Sound person, etc. The Producer also worked on The Lucy Show. All of that may have been the problem--all that predictable schlock.

R160 is that a joke? All I ever see on DL is a joke about how Gary told her to turn this or that project down, or accept some turkey. Was her career any good when she was married to him?

R183 The link is broken. The book is called "Affective Memories". Whatever that means.

[quote]Lucie has always had such a matronly, un-glamorous style, both clothes and hair. I mean, look at [R96]... My God, woman, you are the daughter of two Hollywood legends. Throw the Chico's catalog away.

Don't you get the feeling that Lucy was the type of person to punish her daughter for the crimes of her father?

Also, I can easily imagine that Lucy chipped away at her self-esteem so that she would never be outshined by her daughter. I get the feeling Lucy was a very controlling mother.

Anyone wondering why Lucie didn't write a Mommie Dearest there were 2 reasons.

The first, as someone pointed out, you don't attack a beloved figure on the level of Ball. Lucie found out the hard way though. Shortly after Lucy died, lil Lucie made several passive aggressive remarks about her mother's massive ego and boot camp parenting. The outcry was so loud Lucie apologized by making another 'joke' that wire hangers were in fact allowed.

Second reason: Lucie and Desi Jr. were in charge of the estate.

Carole Cook also said about Gary (not in a roast): You pay the price.

R196 Lucy was no doubt controlling but as for the rest of it, I don't think so.

Carole rarely said a negative thing about anyone save Gary and Mickey Rooney.

At around 2:00 you get an idea of how cold and controlling Lucy could be.

As Lucy is handing off the Emmy, Valerie Harper gushes "Remember I was in the chorus of Wildcat!"

Lucy just barks back: "Talk into the microphone, not the Emmy."

R195, The link is not broken.

R201 Lucy didn't "bark back" , she stepped over Harper and made a joke - so did the other host. They both knew Harper was nervous on the stage and they tried to put her at ease by joking about the microphones. This was Harper's first TV job, and her first Emmy win which took her by surprise and turned her into a nervous wreck. Lucy sensed that, and helped her out. The whole audience was laughing.

R202 It's broken for me or I wouldn't have said anything. 404 Page not found.

Doesn't work for me either, r204.

I believe Desi also produced the first couple of seasons of The Lucy Show. It seems like there divorce was functional in ways their marriage wasn't.

The picture showed up for me yesterday but not today OP

Op's picture.

The page you’re looking for couldn’t be found.

Check the web address and try again, or go to the home page.

Desi sold his Rancho Mirage home to Kaye Ballard in 1968 and she lived there until she died.

It sold in February for $1million.

Kaye Ballard bought a house on Kaye Ballard Lane? What are the odds?

[quote]Kaye Ballard bought a house on Kaye Ballard Lane? What are the odds?

Tell me about it.

I'm pretty sure they named the street after Kaye lived there.

She used to live on Eve Arden Avenue.

Nothing gets past you, r212!

She was up Eve Arden, but she didn't live there.

As an 11 yr old gayling I loved watching Mothers-In-Law reruns during summer break.

I crushed hard on Jerry. Didn't know what he saw in that trollop Suzie.

Did Kaye ever come out?

Danny?

Stevens?

Only in death, R217 and it's still not in her Wikipedia even though she's dead nearly 5 years. Though the Desert Sun does mention that her partner was Myfanwy Jenn, that fact wasn't even mentioned in most of Kaye's obits, or if she was it's as a "friend." Jenn is gone now too and some of her obits credit her as Kaye's partner.

Dino (Martin jr), Desi and Billy (Hinsche)'s RC Cola ad - circa 1967

BTW, I know this is about Desi, but how beautiful was Dean Martin Jr.?

Not to be picky but was he actually Dean Martin Jr.? People used to say no. (I mean his name.) His name was Dean Paul Martin but I don't know if that was Dean's name.

"Desi Jr." was actually Desi IV, I think.

Lucie is very blunt and has no filter. She alienated Robert Klein during the run of DL fave TPOS by saying in an interview that she plays to the other actor and Robert plays to the audience. Ouch. They made up but it was a very unkind thing to say about another actor. She also made remarks about Kaye Ballard after she died even though they were friends.

What did she say about Kaye?

I thought Kaye lived at 4215 Pussy Way.

I remember shortly after Ballard died, Rosie O'Donnell said she was an 'inspiration' to her as lesbian comedienne. She had met her in person a few times when she was 'getting started' in her career. She wanted to produce a biopic on Ballard, and she would star as her. So far - nothing.

R222:

R221 here - Dean was indeed a jr as both his and his father's real name was 'Dino Paul Crocetti'

Dean Paul was the first born of Dean and his 2nd wife, Jeanne, who was a beauty pageant queen.

I'll be interested to read his book, particularly info on Robin Strasser.....a great actress but said to be personally a few fries short of a Happy Meal. (Sadly I'm not sure if either of her sons w/Larry are still speaking to her)

I remember when Strasser joined 'Knots Landing' in the 80s. I believe she played a TV producer. She was awful.

My dream of dreams was to become Mrs. Desi Arnaz, Jr.

Lucie said when they were growing up if they didn't do what their mother wanted she would yell: "That's it! You're out of the will"

And go upstairs and slam the door to her bedroom.

R230. Fuck you, Marcia

Maureen McCormick just knew Desi had access to the good drugs.

I've always wanted to know how to pronounce the name Myfanwy. I'm guessing it's not MY-FAN-WEE (or WHY).

Any Celts out there who can help me?

Mah-von-way per this article, R234 - at least for Ms. Jenn.

R223, Lucie kept pestering Robert Klein to “rehearse” and try to improve the show long after it had opened, which pissed him off.

He finally said to her, “We’re sold out, honey”.

Lucie is still on good terms with first husband Phil Vandervort.

She has hired him to assist her on various projects since their divorce.

[quote]Rosie wanted to produce a biopic on Ballard, and she would star as her. So far - nothing.

It might work better, and be much easier to finance, as a one-woman show in a strictly limited two-week run at Dinner Theatricals in Rancho Mirage, with the closing night performance live streamed on DL.

Like many other projects Rosie promoted and said was happening ("I'm playing Fanny Brice's mother in the 'Funny Girl' revival next year...") this Ballard project was just dreaming in color for her.

Nobody wants to work with Rosie O'Donnell because she's a fucking lunatic with rage issues.

Lucy once threw a drink in his face and growled, "This champagne is burnt".

R165, Lucy's "Stone Pillow" was at Bleecker and 11th, then a pet store specializing in birds. Today it's Magnolia Bakery, made famous by "Sex and the City."

Stone Pillow would have been so much better with a story appropriate big musical number.

Can anyone recommend the best biography about Lucille Ball? I see several on Amazon. Lately I've become curious about her for a couple of reasons. One is, I've become a backgammon player in my eldergay years, and I'm tickled to come across pictures like this of her playing at Pips in Hollywood back in the day. The other reason I'm curious is I see people here saying kind of surprising things about her (like she turned tricks or was banned from certain airlines) and yet when I see interviews, like the Dick Cavett one linked above, she seemed like a very together, professional, gracious lady. I'd kind of like to get a little closer to learn the essence of who she really was.

R244, Kathleen Brady's "Lucille" will give a good overview. For the bulk of her tv career, you can't beat Geoffrey Mark's "The Lucy Book" and Coyne Steven Sanders' "Desilu."

Also, her voice really comes through in her own book, "Love, Lucy." Someone here will recommend "Ball of Fire" but it won't be me.

And the old, very first Lucy books: "The I Love Lucy Book" and "Loving Lucy" are long superseded by books that are more complete and better put together.

Man did I hate MOTHERS IN LAW. Other than Eve Arden I could not stand the rest of the cast. And it was so unfunny that it made my teeth hurt.

r244 that's a great picture. Backgammon, booze and unfiltered cigs was basically Lucy in her later years.

R241. We all have our moments.

For a Lucy bio I'd recommend Ball of Fire. I'm curious why you don't not like it, r245?

Thanks R245 and R249 I appreciate the recs.

R247 I agree. Here's another one.

I've read that in Lucy's later years, she insisted that any guest she had in her home play Backgammon with her.

Just imagine sitting at a little table playing Backgammon with Lucy as she cackled and blew smoke in your face.

I can only imagine how badly Lucy and Desi smelled

[qote]Why didn’t he get along with Lucy?

Gary talked her out of it.

Bette Midler said the scrabble table was cemented into the living room floor.

R252 - is that Berry Gordy?

Mother of the bride Lucy is wearing short sleeves in that photo at R237.

I really liked I LOVED LUICY by Gary's nephew......a very personal look at her life toward the end.

A couple of things:

A person would leave the table or a gathering.....and when that person came back Lucy would say to someone else at the table: "Well there she is, why don't you tell her to her face?"

And she loved cooking up pork and beans and Vienna sausages and on other days, frying SPAM for dinner.

Did Desi Jr ever partake of the cock sucking?

The book, Desilu, is full of good stuff, but it's also not very well put together and just has random timelines.

Still, it's my favorite Lucy book, though - along with The Lucy Book.

Lucie played Elizabeth Short in the 1975 telefilm Who Is the Black Dahlia?

In Los Angeles in 1947, a police detective tries to solve the shocking and grisly murder of 22-year-old aspiring actress Elizabeth Short, whose nude body was dumped in a lot after being bisected with surgical precision. The detective interviews people who knew Short, who was called "The Black Dahlia" because of the black outfits she wore.

R262 Wow, she looks like her brother in drag, there.

Lucie's 1975 Black Dahlia made-for-TV movie was shot on a zero budget and is still the most moving Black Dahlia movie ever made.

I can just picture Lucy watching the Black Dahlia TV movie, with a cig in one hand and a gin and tonic in the other: "Jesus Christ he cut her in half!"

and...

For anyone interested in Lucy (and Desi!), I highly recommend season three of the podcast The Plot Thickens, which is all about her life and career. It was produced by TCM and is hosted by Ben Mankiewicz. It's well-researched and it's quite compelling about both Lucy the woman and Lucy the icon and what she meant in American culture.. I found it to be fascinating, entertaining, and surprisingly moving.

Lucie is interviewed in one of the episodes and she's insightful about both her parents. She's more open and candid than I would have expected.

There's a great interview that Lucy did near the end of her life for a TV documentary about RKO in which she looks great and has a softness and vulnerability unseen in her later years. Wish I could find it. She talks about making Stage Door with Katharine Hepburn and Ginger Rogers among other things. Quite charming and the entire documentary is quite good.

Here, r268...

Lucy had to have been a heavy duty mother-in-law.

I remember her as a guest with Joan Rivers after the birth of Lucie’s third child and she boasted “I told him he had to . . . and then she made a scissors motion . . . or he was going to kill her”.

Lake recalls Ball

Lucy and Bob Hope introduce the has-beens of the future. Corey Feldman does Michael Jackson

Well, it does help explain why he was right for his role in The Boys In The Band!

Promoting "Social Security"

Lucy and Gary at the Kennedy Center honors

In the meantime, Ricki Lake is forgotten and Lucy persists. I was disappointed. I thought the clip would be of Veronica Lake chatting about an early encounter with Lucille Ball.

[quote]A person would leave the table or a gathering.....and when that person came back Lucy would say to someone else at the table: "Well there she is, why don't you tell her to her face?"

I love this ! I'm going to have to do this when I'm out with my friends ! Too funny.

R267 thank you for mentioning The Plot Thickens. It gets highest recommendation, and I'm not a podcast fan at all. They've really done their homework and it's very thorough, and they don't ignore her later series or the chapters of her life after her weekly series career.

I don't know why I typed Luicy.....

Gary's nephew also told the story about when they were in some ski resort.....and a marine in uniform walked up to Lucy and talked to her for a bit. He told his mother was a big fan and that she was very sick and telephone call from Lucy would mean the world to her.

Lucy called her later that night and they talked for three hours - mostly about their kids and husbands.

The next morning as they were checking out - the marine ran into them and told them his mother had died earlier that morning.

The nephew said Lucy spent the entire flight back to LA with her arms crossed just looking out the window and crying.

When Hedda Hopper died, Lucy purchased Hedda’s Rolls Royce from her estate for a memento since they surprisingly were close friends.

Elizabeth throws shade at Lucy.

So besides Desi and Gary, who all else did Lucille ball???

[quote]I don't know why I typed Luicy.....

It's a FOLLIES thing.

Liz and Dick regretted their appearance, for sure. Burton loathed her.

By this point Burton loathed anybody who interfered with his drunkenness.

[quote]Just imagine sitting at a little table playing Backgammon with Lucy as she cackled and blew smoke in your face.

You must be thinking of Marion Strong. She's the one who cackled.

[quote]Anyone wondering why Lucie didn't write a Mommie Dearest there were 2 reasons. The first, as someone pointed out, you don't attack a beloved figure on the level of Ball.

Who the FUCK do you think you are, implying that I wasn't as beloved as that red-headed CUNT!

[quote]Can't you just smell the years and years of Pall Mall smoke?

Sorry, doll -- for me it's Chesterfields or nothing! Even when Philip Morris was our sponsor!

[quote]Liz and Dick regretted their appearance, for sure. Burton loathed her.

There were two points made about their appearance:

They showed up expecting to be treated like movie stars. Lucy was tight with money and this was tv and she wasn’t going to throw a lot of money at them.

Lucy was a stickler for rehearsal. She worked very hard at getting the comedy perfect. The Burtons were looking for easy money, just wanted to show up, toss off a few lines and collect a paycheck. They didn’t want to spend all day rehearsing.

[quote]So besides Desi and Gary, who all else did Lucille ball???

A bunch of movie studio execs and people wanting to do business with the studios. Probably some random guys for a meal and a place to stay when she was coming up.

Pandro Berman

The entirety of the adult male population of Jamestown, NY

What r289 said was correct. Liz and Dick thought they would just breeze in and breeze out, say their lines and get their asses kissed the whole time. Lucy was a pro and demanded rehearsals from everyone. She was right, of course.

At the time, wasn't 'Here's Lucy' falling in the ratings ? I remember reading she was losing out to new comedies like 'All In The Family' (which she hated, and said so in interviews) and 'Mary Tyler Moore Show' in the ratings, so enlisted the help of 'celebrities' to make guest appearances each week to boost her ratings. That's how she got Liz and Dick.

R294, There were guest stars each week throughout the “Here’s Lucy” series.

[quote]There were guest stars each week throughout the “Here’s Lucy” series.

Including Lucille Ball.

[quote]I don't know why I typed Luicy.....

Because Luicy is juicy?

But terribly sad

How many of those young actors (19 in all) from 'The Stars of Tomorrow' actually won an Oscar in the past 35 years ?

I'd rather Lucie Arnaz would write a memoir, and spill the tea - she saw old Hollywood up close.

Gee, has anyone yet made the joke that the misspelling "Luicy" makes them think of the rhyming of 'Lucy" and "juicy" in FOLLIES? Because that would be so hilarious SOMEONE needs to make it!

Thank you, r301.

Thanks so much to the poster who recommended The Plot Thickens podcast. It’s so good.

Has anyone made a joke yet about Lucy smoking a cigarette and having an alcoholic beverage? Such outrageous behavior.

At 5:50, Charles Nelson Reilly gives an idea of what it's like to work with Lucy.

Let's do that right.

One of the extras on one of the HERE'S LUCY seasons shows Gary doing the warm-up before the filming started.

It was awful, the audience didn't pay any attention to anything he said and kept talking to each other. They didn't get interested until he introduced the actors.

One of the producers said: "Gary doesn't do a warm up - he does a cool down."

R299 - I think the highest accolade given to any of the 'Stars of Tomorrow' is Patrick Dempsey winning People Magazine's 'Sexiest Man Alive' last year.

Does that count?

R308 Sure, but it's no Oscar. Corey Feldman looked like he was trying to imitate Michael Jackson, poor thing.

To R309 -

That's been Corey Feldman's schtick for over 30 years.

He recently did a concert with his band in Chicago and (sadly) he was still doing the MJ steps.

What else is Corey Feldman going to do? No one is going to what to see him because he's sexually attractive or because he can sing well, because neither thing is true. Basically, doing the Moonwalk is all he CAN do.

It was Riot Fest and he and his 'band' went on at noon. CF is rapping now.

Richard Burton on working with Lucy...

" I loathed her the first day. I loathed her the second day and the third. I loathe her today but now I also pity her. After tonight I shall make a point of never seeing her again. We work, or have worked until today which is the last thank God, from 10am to somewhere around 5pm, and Milady Balls can thank her lucky stars that I am not drinking. There is a chance that I might have killed her"

The Burton Diaries are a great read he is quite the gossip

Working poor Richard from 10a to 5p -- God, it's practically Dickensian!

R313, Lucy was made later aware of how Burton felt and she was deeply hurt.

[quote]Lucy was made later aware of how Burton felt and she was deeply hurt.

I'm kind of surprised that Lucy wasn't more self aware.

More on working with Lucy...

" Only once did Burton become irascible, and then he did it privately, advising director Jerry Paris to warn Lucy that if she tried to pull any rank on Elizabeth “she would see, in person, what a Thousand Megaton Hydrogen Bomb does when the warhead is attached and exploded.”

Apparently Lucy wanted to "coach" Elizabeth Taylor with her line readings 🙄

Lucy was far from the only person who knew a set. Donna Reed was described as knowing a set better than anyone and she wasn't a jerk about it. I would imagine that a lot of those B-players were similarly perceptive. They weren't stars and they had to follow the rules, know their marks, etc. if they wanted to be stay employed.

It's useful to know that Lucy was so limited in how she would play and how she dealt with people because there continues to be these adoring queens who think she walks on water when basically she was a B-player who did well with the amount of schtick as Eve Arden(wom I always enjoy, but face i, she was usually stuck doing the same line readings) and less range (and voice) than Ann Sothern.

Say what you will but Lucy, Eve and Ann ruled that new medium TV in the 1950s. America adored them.

And Gracie Allen, Joan Davis and Gale Storm. Those B-picture ladies found their niche in early sit-com television.

“Say what you will but Lucy, Eve and Ann ruled that new medium TV in the 1950s. America adored them.“

Excuse me?

[quote]there continues to be these adoring queens who think she walks on water

I'm a Lucy fan, but even I know that she was quite flawed. Just the way she treated Patty Duke and others. The way she covered up Desi Jr's bastard kid and Desi Jr's whoring, but the way she treated Joan Crawford was beyond the pale.

Any gossip on Gale Gordon working with Lucy ? He costarred on three of her shows, so I'll guess they were fine together.

R318 Lucy was only in B movies at the beginning of her career. Co-starring with Bob Hope and Red Skelton, William Holden and Van Johnson in movies isn't a "B player." A B player would be someone like Frances Rafferty. Same with Donna Reed. Maybe in some Bs at the beginning. She won a fucking Academy Award, for God's sake.

Don’t forget THE BIG STREET with Henry Fonda…she was pretty good in that.

Lucy was on movie magazine covers in the '40s.

We need a big splashy Broadway revival of Wildcat. Is Beanie Feldstein available?

Poor Laurence. The thread about his memoir has been high jacked by his bitch of a mother-in-law.

.....

Is it true Lucie will be working full time at the new Chick Fil A in Palm Springs ?

Lucie aged gracefully and she really looks great.

Is Lucie the first nepo baby ?

In spite of her big name costars, including Holden and Fonda, MOST of Lucy's studio output as a leading lady was in B pictures. Yes, she certainly appeared in A pictures as a supporting player at both RKO and MGM.

But when MGM signed her and attempted to develop her as a true leading lady, she never really clicked (have you ever tried to watch Dubarry Was a Lady?) and her contract was terminated after just a few years. Hence her decampment to touring with Desi in the last gasp of vaudeville and eventually radio, which lead to My Favorite Wife which lead to ILL.

[quote] They showed up expecting to be treated like movie stars. Lucy was tight with money and this was tv and she wasn’t going to throw a lot of money at them.

[quote] Lucy was a stickler for rehearsal. She worked very hard at getting the comedy perfect. The Burtons were looking for easy money, just wanted to show up, toss off a few lines and collect a paycheck. They didn’t want to spend all day rehearsing.

You're just making flimsy and unconvincing excuses for her.

She absolutely could have had good results from the Burtons while still being polite to them 9as her guests on the show). And since we've heard REPEATEDLY how awful she was to other guests on the show and to almost everyone else who knew her in the late 60s, 70s, and 80s, there's just no denying that in her later years Lucy was a nasty cunt.

Lucy was like Peter Lawford at MGM. An attractive performer who couldn't sing or dance but was repeatedly and unsuitably put into musicals.

R331 that was Douglas Fairbanks, Jr.

[quote]there's just no denying that in her later years Lucy was a nasty cunt.

No question, but Taylor and Burton were no walk in the park either. Why were they slumming on tv? Because there was a period in their careers where nobody wanted to work with them. After “Who’s Afraid of Virginia Wolf” they were more famous for being famous than creating box office movies. That’s why they said yes to Lucy.

Despite all the kerfuffle, the episode was very funny.

And it made the cover of TV Guide.

[quote]the episode was very funny.

It should be because it was warmed over material already done on I Love Lucy. Remember the handcuffs episode?

[Quote] No question, but Taylor and Burton were no walk in the park either. Why were they slumming on tv? Because there was a period in their careers where nobody wanted to work with them. After “Who’s Afraid of Virginia Wolf” they were more famous for being famous than creating box office movies. That’s why they said yes to Lucy.

R336 After Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf the Burtons made many films together and individually, they hardly needed The Lucy Show. Burton was nominated for an Oscar in 1970 and 1978 for Anne of the Thousand Days and Equus and appeared in such films as Bluebeard, Where Eagles Dare, Candy, Staircase, Villain, The Assassination of Trotsky, The Klansman, The Medusa Touch and the notorious Exorcist II The Heretic. After WAOVW? he and Liz appeared together in the Comedians, Boom, The Taming of the Shrew, Under Milk Wood and Hammersmith is Out! Taylor also had a lot of pay gigs as well: Secret Ceremony. The Only Game in Town, X,Y & Z, Night Watch, Ash Wednesday, The Blue Bird, A Little Night Music and The Mirror Crack'd. It was mostly crap, but it paid well, I'm sure. They also appeared in TV films as well. Lucy needed them more than they needed Lucy.

Speaking of Lucy's film career, Stage Door is a very entertaining movie. I recommend it.

[quote]Speaking of Lucy's film career, Stage Door is a very entertaining movie.

This movie’s interesting because you can see Lucille Ball trying to find herself as an actress.

She so badly wants to do physical comedy but hasn’t been given the outlet to do it.

[quote]Is Lucie the first nepo baby ?

Don't be an idiot.

[Quote] Is Lucie the first nepo baby ?

Long before Lucie there was Jane and Peter Fonda, Beau Bridges, Sydney and Geraldine Chaplin, Micky's son Tim Rooney, Nancy Sinatra and Jim Hutton lookalike Robert Walker Jr. whose mother was Jennifer Jones.

For fuck's sake, John Wilkes Booth was a nepo baby. His father was the famous actor Junius Booth.

If anybody here at DL is reading this book, does Larry provide more details re: what happened between Lucy and Lucie in those last ten years? If he doesn't do much but hint, I'm not interested in buying it, but if he does spill some hot tea I may fork out a few sheckels.

John Quincy Adams.

Jesus

LOL r348

Apollo!

Well, r349, am I right?

I am more interested in TBITB tea...what was it like kissing cutey pie Keith Prentice? Who was fucking who on set? What was it line meeting all the celebs who went to see it in the theater?

You don't want to know what it's like kissing Lucy ?

[quote] You don't want to know what it's like kissing Lucy ?

"...like kissing some divine ashtray..."

--Sideshow Bob

I checked out his IMDB page. After The Secret Storm and Where the Heart Is, he did Boys in the Band and then went to have a fairly decent career. Doing a couple of guest spots a year in various series and movies of the weeks. He has the kind of career that I'm not sure an actor can have these days.

Does he dish about why Reuben Green refused to discuss the movie or have contact with any other cast members?

R352, Among the numerous celebrities who attended the original production was Jackie O.

[quote] But when MGM signed her and attempted to develop her as a true leading lady, she never really clicked (have you ever tried to watch Dubarry Was a Lady?)

R332 I think the film version of “Du Barry Was A Lady” was a splashy mess, but that wasn’t Lucille’s fault. I thought she was gorgeous with her new Technicolor red hair, particularly in the scene with Gene Kelly at the piano. Granted, her voice was dubbed for her song numbers except for “Friendship,” and while she could dance, she was no Ginger Rogers. When Lucille did the comedy number with Red Skelton, trying to avoid his advances while they were both jumping on the bed (which did not look easy), I think it was a sign that her special talent was physical comedy rather than the usual talents of a leading lady of film at that time.

This thread is so cynical. The Burtons didn’t do Here’s Lucy for the money or the publicity. They did it because it was a story that had to be told. Single mothers who got famous rings stuck on their hands while working at their brother-in-law’s employment agency rejoiced to finally see themselves represented in the media. Especially the ones w smoker’s cough.

The way the episode came about was the Burtons and Lucy and Gary were attending the same party in Los Angeles and at one point in the evening they said to Lucy “We love your show”, and that’s all Lucy needed to hear.

R341: Her "Lucy" schtick was evident as early as "Stage Door". She was briefly at Columbia on short-term contracts and went out of her way to put down having appeared with "The Three Stooges"--but frankly, she probably used more of what she would have learned working with them---slapstick done on a budget than anything she might have learned from Henry Fonda.

I think there was one interview were she tried to deny that she even appeared with the Three Stooges.

R362: Not difficult to find her. She appeared in at least two early ones--back when they were actually clever and manic, with a lot of wordplay and true irreverence. I think "Three Little Pigskins" was one of them.

R357 Marlene Dietrich went to see it and then treated the entire cast to dinner at Sardi's

R323: Reed won an Oscar but wound up with the "Best Supporting Actress" curse--she didn't get better roles and eventually went into television. If you look at the list of winners--lost of people from Fay Bainter to Dorothy Malone to Linda Hunt never got a big movie career boost from "Best Supporting". Fay Bainter later appeared on Reed's show as one of a number old MGM cronies she had cast as guest stars (Lansbury was not the first to do this; I'm sure Reed was not the only one, either). The "names" who received supporting awards mostly were established stars or received it for what was really a leading role (Streep in Kramer v. Kramer).

Joan Blondell or Carole Cock, some lovable broad, told a story about being on a Here’s Lucy episode soon after the Burtons. Lucy basically acknowledged that the script & production value would be horrible because they blew the budget on Richard & Liz.

R366, Wasn’t it Jayne Meadows?

R357, Luckinbill drilled a small hole in a piece of scenery that allowed one to view the audience unnoticed.

At each performance, he would look out to see which celebrities were sitting in the Orchestra sixth row house seats.

Lucy was excellent in Dalton Trumbo's communist propaganda film "Five Came Back". Very good movie.

R367, you’re right! Thank you.

R370 . . .

I like how Katharine H and Ginger R say about Lucy's character at the end of STAGE DOOR:

"She'll end up married with a couple of kids and what will we have?"

"Our scrapbooks."

Watching her in Here's Lucy and even on a couple of episodes of The Lucy Show - it seemed to me that Lucie's confidence far outweighed her talent.

I have the DVD set of Life With Lucy. I need to finally watch it this weekend.

R374, A boxed set for just 13 episodes? Some of them never even aired.

R374 Why punish yourself this weekend ?

Yes, she certainly appeared in A pictures as a supporting player at both RKO and MGM.

But when MGM signed her and attempted to develop her as a true leading lady, she never really clicked (have you ever tried to watch Dubarry Was a Lady?) and her contract was terminated after just a few years. Hence her decampment to touring with Desi in the last gasp of vaudeville and eventually radio, which lead to My Favorite Wife which lead to ILL.

None of this is wrong but you leave out her two Paramount movies where she got costar billing opposite Bob Hope (huge star), Sorrowful Jones and Fancy Pants. Never mind the exact quality of the movies, that's really not relevant - she also got second billing to Victor Mature in the football drama Easy Living (above Lizabeth Scott), and starred in the comedies Miss Grant Takes Richmond, and The Fuller Brush Girl. MGM's attempt to make her into a star (including Meet The People and Two Smart People (w/John Hodiak) was not successful but she wasn't a "B player." any more. That was my point.

And the fact is when she did I Love Lucy it was remarked that she was the first "movie star" to do a network sitcom. She was a movie star, if not the biggest or best. She wasn't Jane Frazee, Adele Jergens, Leslie Brooks or on that level, which was the B list.

[quote] Yes, she certainly appeared in A pictures as a supporting player at both RKO and MGM. But when MGM signed her and attempted to develop her as a true leading lady, she never really clicked (have you ever tried to watch Dubarry Was a Lady?) and her contract was terminated after just a few years. Hence her decampment to touring with Desi in the last gasp of vaudeville and eventually radio, which lead to My Favorite Wife which lead to ILL.

None of this is wrong but you leave out her two Paramount movies where she got costar billing opposite Bob Hope (huge star), Sorrowful Jones and Fancy Pants. Never mind the exact quality of the movies, that's really not relevant - she also got second billing to Victor Mature in the football drama Easy Living (above Lizabeth Scott), and starred in the comedies Miss Grant Takes Richmond, and The Fuller Brush Girl. MGM's attempt to make her into a star (including Meet The People and Two Smart People (w/John Hodiak) was not successful but she wasn't a "B player." any more. That was my point.

And the fact is when she did I Love Lucy it was remarked that she was the first "movie star" to do a network sitcom. She was a movie star, if not the biggest or best. She wasn't Jane Frazee, Adele Jergens, Leslie Brooks or on that level, which was the B list.

[quote] Hence her decampment to touring with Desi in the last gasp of vaudeville and eventually radio, which lead to My Favorite Wife

Led.

[quote] which lead to ILL

Led.

Thank Heavens she revived her movie career in 1974 by starring in 'Mame'.

[quote]Hence her decampment to touring with Desi in the last gasp of vaudeville and eventually radio

r337, The road act was to raise Desi's profile so that he'd be cast as the husband when the radio show went to television.

Yeah, for some reason the TV execs thought that lily white Desi and lily white Lucy would be seen as an interracial couple by the American public and not accepted.

r377, you conveniently omitted my opening statement, MOST of Lucy's output as a leading lady was in B pictures. I stressed most.

If you think Fancy Pants, Sorrowful Jones, Miss Grant Takes Richmond, The Fuller Brush Girl, Meet the People and Two Smart People were A pictures, Lana Turner, Greer Garson, Margaret Sullavan, Hedy Lamarr, Katharine Hepburn, all her contemporaries at MGM.....and Paulette Goddard, Veronica Lake, Betty Hutton, even Dorothy Lamour over at Paramount, might disagree. And, as I stated, Lucy co-starred in many A pictures as a supporting player.

Lucy was certainly a cut above the B actresses you mention but at MGM and Paramount, despite the studios' efforts, she was never more than the level of Ann Sothern (and I adore them both). They were decidedly B+.

Alot of people consider them interracial but Desi was white. Latino but white. If Desi spoke a perfect midwestern english and was called Steven Brady no one would have bated an eye or considered him latino.

I very much enjoyed both The Fuller Brush Girl and Miss Grant Takes Richmond.

[quote]If Desi spoke a perfect midwestern english and was called Steven Brady no one would have bated an eye or considered him latino.

Or Steve BAUER?

[quote] If Desi spoke a perfect midwestern english and was called Steven Brady no one would have bated an eye or considered him latino.

But he didn't and he wasn't. That's the point.

Things were different in the 1940s and 1950s.

R387 So how you speak determines your race? Interesting...

I was in the running to play Scarlet O’Hara, bitches! B actress my ass!

Miss Cunt!

I told Elizabeth to call her "Miss Cunt"

R378 Lucy was never on a par with Crawford, Davis, de Haviland, Bergman, Fontaine, Stanwyck, Hepburn, Dietrich, Ginger Rogers, Lana Turner, Doris Day, Ava Gardner or even Shelly Winters, Maureen O'Hara, Judy Holiday and Veronica Lake which is why she went into television in the early 50s.

Crawford, Davis, de Haviland, etc never became major Hollywood studio bosses so I guess it worked out ok for Lucy.

Lucy has a hilarious drunk scene in Yours, Mine and Ours. I remember seeing it in the theatre as a kid and the sold out audience laughed their asses off. She was actually very good in that and had great chemistry with Henry Fonda.

R393 It certainly did

She wasn't much of a boss. Desilu stagnated under her and became a rental lot. That changed with hiring Herbert Solow who was responsible for Star Trek, Mannix, & Mission Impossible, which probably was an attempt to make the studio more attractive for sale.

Lucy looked great in "Five Came Back"; Nick Musuraca, the veteran cinematographer who worked with her on that picture and a few earlier RKO movies, was later hired by Desilu to film many of their TV productions.

[quote]If you look at the list of winners--lost of people from Fay Bainter to Dorothy Malone to Linda Hunt never got a big movie career boost from "Best Supporting".

Dorothy Malone wasn't even included in the Academy Awards' "in memoriam" segment. Pretty shabby way to treat an Oscar winner, but no doubt there were some lawyers or publicists the Academy wanted to include instead.

[quote]Yeah, for some reason the TV execs thought that lily white Desi and lily white Lucy would be seen as an interracial couple by the American public and not accepted.

Which is how they would still be viewed by a certain segment of DL

Who is the flaming nellie speaking at R390?

^ All those Youtube channels involving old sitcoms are Gayer than a picnic

[quote]She was actually very good in that and had great chemistry with Henry Fonda.

Can we please get back to me while I’m still alive?

Dean Paul Martin was a true Golden Boy. Was there anything he didn’t do? Actor, pop star, pilot, tennis pro, good looking…. I think he accomplished everything he went after. I can just imagine him as most popular in HS and all the girls crushing on him from grade school on.

R394 wasn't the real life father from that movie molesting the kids?

R399, that's a figment of the DL's imagination, and I'm pretty sure most people who say it mean it as a joke. No one thought that way in the postwar era. That doesn't mean all was sweetness and light. You can dislike an ethnic group and still acknowledge them as white.

R387, the bigger point is that, once the show was on the air, no one considered Lucy and Desi “interracial”. There was plenty of joking about Ricky’s accent and Latin temperament, but he was just exotic – like a Frenchman or Italian with a strong accent would be - not non-white.

Yes, things were different in the ‘40s and ‘50s in that, if you were Hispanic, you were white if you looked white. If your ancestors all came from Europe, you were as white anyone else. It’s a simple as that. 100% Spanish Desi Arnaz was considered white because he was white. By any sensible standard, he’d be considered white today, too.

Also - if Desi had been considered non-white, Lucille Ball's career would have been over the moment she married him.

Don't bother with LIFE WITH LUCY.....it is very bad..... And Lucy looked bad - but seeing Gale Gordon was even worse.....he looked like a walking corpse.

Years and years ago - I bought a bootleg VHS (yes I am that old) of the series including that ones that didn't air.

The seller included a home video of a party the tres gay actor who played her son-in-law through for the cast/crew at his house after the show went off the air.

Lucy and Gary were fawned over and it was interesting to see. You could tell that Lucy was astonished at how small the house was. Gale Gordon & his wife were there and they were most obsequious to Mr. and Mrs. Morton.....they were not super friendly at all.....just business acquaintances.

Through = threw

R344, and before all of those, there were the Crosby Boys.

[quote]Don't bother with LIFE WITH LUCY.....it is very bad..... And Lucy looked bad - but seeing Gale Gordon was even worse.....he looked like a walking corpse.

This exactly why I want to watch it now.

Wow, didn't realize it has been sitting on my bookcase for over 3 years....

I think it is time.

Enjoy? I really thought I wanted to see it, too.

And yes I bought the DVD set when it came out.

I went to look for it and it wasn't with all the other LUCY discs......I finally found it by the tv at the bottom of the "to be watched" stack - where it's been since I bought it.....about five years ago.

At the time they were considered interracial...

"I Love Lucy's biggest contribution goes beyond ratings and television. Ball's co-star and then-husband Desi Arnaz was Cuban-American in an era when racial segregation was codified law in many parts of the country. The studio didn't want to depict a biracial couple on television, but the show fought for it and won. Considering how big I Love Lucy became, it took a bite out of widely accepted racist dogma and help pave the way for needed social change. "

Wow, such bullshit

That's a modern source, R412, with 21st-century sensibilities with a vengeance. "Latine" - seriously?

Is there a source from the 1940s or '50s that identified them as "interracial" or referred to Desi as non-white? At the time, Lucille Ball said (quoting from the article):

"The people there said the public wouldn't believe I was married to Desi. He talked with a Cuban accent, and, after all, what typical American girl is married to a Latin?"

That is hardly the same as implying that Desi was non-white. It points up an ethnic difference, which was a common source of both humor and hostility at the time, but is not the same as race.

There is an episode of I Love Lucy where the family flies to Cuba!

Lucy... meddling again.

Hey... remember me?

The real life father on YM&O was abusive to the sons that weren’t his. The kids seem divided on how their family life really was. Like Joan’s twins vs Christina and Chris or one or two Crosby sons agains Gary.

Lucy looked so old and unwell on Life With Lucy. It was uncomfortable to watch a frail elderly woman do pratfalls. Her character was also supposed to be a "health nut" but everybody and their brother knew that she was actually a lifelong chain-smoking boozehound. It was such a disaster of a show.

I can't bring myself to watch any of it.

R419, She was only 75 years old.

She seemed older than that. She looked like a modern 90.

Laurence recalls his parents coming to see Boys in the Band

Lucie and Larry performing on The Mike Douglas Show

Ricardo Montalban, Fernando Lamas and Cesar Romero were all white.

@r414, That's just your opinion of what you think a modern interpretation of what interracial meant in 1950. If you were really interested you could find many articles, some that even quote Lucy and Desi as to the racial issue of their show, but you're just "that guy" on DL that always has to be right even when it's obvious you're wrong

less to do with Desi not being white than not being American born

He definitely wasn't Richard Denning.

Life with Lucie Episode 1

@r428, Richard Denning was quite handsome, but he was no Desi

[quote]Don't bother with LIFE WITH LUCY.....it is very bad..... And Lucy looked bad - but seeing Gale Gordon was even worse.....he looked like a walking corpse.

It's more like DEATH WITH LUCY, but that title was deemed too depressing by a focus group.

You can look white but if you are ethnically from Latin America or even just of Latin American descent, even today you can successfully claim legally you are a minority (and non-white).

My roommate in graduate school looked like any other white guy, but his dad was originally from the Dominican Republic and his last name was Gonzalez. As a result, he ultimately qualified as a minority hire when he went out on the academic job market even though he had sandy colored hair (inherited from his mother) and looked very WASPy.

Okay so anyway...

Lucy was a stronger actress, but Lucie is more of a natural entertainer.

Here's Lucie and Jim Bailey

Laurence was in Otto Preminger's Such Good Friends (1971)

The Delphi Bureau

he Delphi Bureau is a top-secret spy cadre answerable only to the U.S. president.

(Laurence Luckinbill). He gets his orders from an in-the-know Washington, D.C. socialite (Celeste Holm)

R432 that's just a dumb because the standards with which some judge by race in the U.S make no sense. Your friend might have even checked the "latino" checkbox when it came to race because obviously it would benefit him. I am white and latina and I do that too on ocassion.

Also, he can still be white (not just "look") but be considered legible for help because his father is from an impoverished country.

You're mixing up race with ethnicity.

Jim Bailey was a brilliant female impersonator, perhaps the best of all time. He could do so many different female celebrities.

Fag.

I saw Lucie in Lost in Yonkers and I preferred her to Mercedes Ruehl. She did a fantastic job.

R441 Hi Lucie! Welcome to Datalounge. We hate that you weren’t nominated in 1979 for the Tony!

[quote] You're mixing up race with ethnicity.

I'm not mixing up anything. I'm just reporting what happened.

Stand down, Tetchy.

Race was definitely an issue with the original I Love Lucy, to say different is to deny what kind of country this was in 1950

How old RU R444?

^ Old enough to read a history book and you? Judging by your spelling I'd say no

The thing about Life with Lucy was that it was broadcast on ABC. All of Lucy’s other sitcoms were on CBS. When your home network gives your show a thumbs down, maybe you should stop listening to Gary.

Life With Lucy was produced by Aaron Spelling who had a LOT of hits on ABC at the time including DYNASTY.

It was sold to ABC without a pilot.

Lucy had also moved to NBC for at least one special in 1980.

So, you didn't experience it first-hand R444. Though judging by your retort you sound like a bitter old crank who hasn't been laid sing Regan was President

So, you didn't experience it first-hand R446. Though judging by your response you sound like a bitter old crank who hasn't been laid since Regan was President

[quote]Life With Lucy was produced by Aaron Spelling who had a LOT of hits on ABC at the time including DYNASTY.

And who, of course, appeared in an episode of the original "I Love Lucy" as an unknown bit player.

[quote] He was on the short list for “Get Smart”, but lost the role of Maxwell Smart to Don Adams.

He was on the short list, but Gary talked him out of it.

[quote] Though judging by your response you sound like a bitter old crank who hasn't been laid since Regan was President

A short name, and yet you still couldn't quite land it.....

[quote] Though judging by your response you sound like a bitter old crank who hasn't been laid since Regan was President

A short name, and yet you still couldn't quite land it.....

@r449/ r450. I know about the Civil War and I wasn't there either

I see you're still up on your spelling, dumbass "Reagan"

[Quote] to say different is to deny what kind of country this was in 1950

R444 Was it a country that didn't know the correct usage of adjectives and adverbs?

[Quote] That's just your opinion of what you think a modern interpretation of what interracial meant in 1950

R426 Ever hear of redundancy and clarity?

Lucie paying tribute to her Latin roots.

Lucie paying tribute to Lucy in 1984.

[Quote]Lucy looked so old and unwell on Life With Lucy. It was uncomfortable to watch a frail elderly woman do pratfalls.

R419 looking at the clip @ R429 she doesn't seem frail. In fact, she seems spry for a person in their 70s.

The “old lady doing pratfalls” was something a critic mentioned at the time.

Hello it's me...

- - -

[Quote] Apparently Lucy wanted to "coach" Elizabeth Taylor with her line readings

[Quote] Old enough to read a history book and you?

R445 Using punctuation and prepositions correctly helps reduce ambiguity and improves clarity and would make you seem less of a dumbass and hypocrite.

[quote]Hello it's me...—Laurence Luckinbill

Tell us what men you slept with and we’ll talk more about you.

My money is on Joel Grey. He was doing George M at the time of Boys and, even though he was married to a woman, I bet he was checking out this astonishing new gay play.

[Quote] Apparently Lucy wanted to "coach" Elizabeth Taylor with her line readings

[Quote] Old enough to read a history book and you?

R446 Using punctuation and prepositions correctly helps reduce ambiguity and improves clarity and would make you seem less of a dumbass and hypocrite.

You’re dead wrong, R444. It’s you who are projecting 2024 onto 1950.

Hispanic is not a race; it’s an ethnicity. Nobody’s questioning that some executives may have thought some Americans would be bothered by Lucy marrying someone of Latin ethnicity. Studio executives were allergic to controversy.

But it is just not true that Desi was perceived as being of a different race from Lucy. That would have been a whole different matter and quite taboo, beyond the ability of Lucy and Desi to smooth over.

It’s only in this century that we have whittled down the definition of “white” to a ridiculously narrow range. In the mid- and late 20th century, Hispanic people who were of European ancestry, like Desi Arnaz, were white. No one questioned that, and, if they had be rude enough to express doubt about it, they've have had a fight on their hands. That's the way things were, R444, and if you really are old enough to remember the late 20th century, then your memory has been clouded by modern politics.

Larry and Keith Prentice were so hot together.

The spelling and grammar troll is having a meltdown

Desi listed his color as white on his marriage license application.

Audiences (and LB Mayer) were never offended by watching Lana Turner, Cyd Charisse and Esther Williams paired with Ricardo Montalban or Fernando Lamas.

[quote]My money is on Joel Grey.

Oh, honey -- I never CHARGED for it!

[quote]Desi listed his color as white on his marriage license application.

What did Lucy list as her hair color?

[quote]Audiences (and LB Mayer) were never offended by watching Lana Turner, Cyd Charisse and Esther Williams paired with Ricardo Montalban or Fernando Lamas.

I certainly was!

Well Cyd Charisse danced and Esther Williams swam pretty well.

What was Lana's specialty?

r464 Is so drunk and so in love with me

I'm not going to fuck you no matter how much you beg 😂

[quote]What was Lana's specialty?

Getting tons of hot cock.

Also, drinking and smoking.

R473, she listed her age as a few years younger and Desi listed his as a few years older.

[quote] What was Lana's specialty?

There were two of them, and they were encased behind her tight sweater.

R477 In other words you have not sensible reply

^^^ no sensible reply.

[Quote] What did Lucy list as her hair color?

Pink

Hugh O'Brian looking good for 80 remembers Lucy

Can we get back to Laurence Suckindick???

Laurence with a U is just pretentious.

Especially since his birth name is Lawrence with a W not Laurence with a U.

[quote]Laurence with a U is just pretentious.

So sue me.

I dare ya.

Fuck you.

Lawrenceville would be there forever........