What do you think was actually going on between Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman?

It's actually an irrelevant question.

"I guess we’ll never know"

Or care. She was single and so was he 🤷‍♂️

Grow up, OP

What was going on was drug dealing. Waiter Michael Nigg, later murdered as well, and friend and coworker of Ron, was a dealer and Ron was a dealer or a delivery guy. This doesn't mean any of them deserved murder. Ron was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Police don't know who offed Nigg.

Interesting, so you think Ron was Nicole’s coke dealer?

It's been so many years, did they find coke at the house?

So what if they did?

Maybe dealer and new friend. Maybe they HAD fucked. Who knows really. I don't think a casual friend goes out of his way to deliver forgotten glasses. So maybe he went there to fuck. Or maybe to deliver or sell drugs. I'm not all that curious about it but I provided the answer that was in my head. Appalling, the stupid minutia I store in my brain.

I always thought Goldman was gay?

Originally it was reported he was simply a hapless waiter at a restaurant returning something she forgot. Wrong place, wrong time...

[quote]I provided the answer that was in my head.

How very generous of you.

Restaurants do not deliver items customers leave there. They will hold them for the customer to pick up.

Ron was either delivering drugs or dick. I think drugs and Nicole may have wanted dick too but was probably barking up the wrong tree.

I think they were either fucking or about to start. I have always felt terrible for both families and it just felt like Nicole’s murder got all the attention and Ron was just barely mentioned. “By the way…there was also some rando guy there murdered as well…”. He was only 25.

There were no drugs on Ron's body. Idiots.

I don't think he was delivering drugs. He came on to a murder in progress, he had to fight for his life and he was killed. After O.J. killed him, according to the Prosecutors, OJ went back to finish off Nicole. There was absolutely no evidence of cocaine or any drugs in Ron's car, or at the crime scene. And the cops and the media would have leaked that out because it was a huge media event with all kinds of people crawling over everything. There were beat cops who responded to the call and were inside the house, etc. with all the publicity the case generated if there were drugs in the house, or at the crime scene, or in the car they would have been found. And the cops went right over to Rockingham, and no drugs there either. I think O.J. always had a lot of rage in him and a contempt for women. Anyone who thinks his abuse of Nicole was a on off is delusional. He probably slapped his first wife around and there's evidence coming out that he had a couple girl friends during college too. He was a rotten fucker.

As for Ron, the people at Mezzaluna knew Nicole. They were friendly. Maybe she was a big tipper. Maybe Ron thought by bringing the glasses to her house, he'd get a tip from her. Which is very likely. I think Ron was Gay. I don't think he was looking to get laid. It was a small community and it would not have been unusual. Some customers were favorites and they were closer than others. Especially if they were celebrities or celebrity-adjacent.

Ron Goldman was not a drug user by any accounts. He was a clean-living guy who was really into fitness.

I always thought that something was probably going on or about to between them. But they were adults and we’d never have been the wiser had they not been killed. And we’ll never know.

Hot blonde leaves glasses at restaurant and they decide to deliver it in person? They were going to fuck.

Yeah, r13, murderers NEVER steal things from crime scenes. That would be criminal.

When people say they thought Ron Goldman was gay, based on what exactly? I'm not saying he wasn't, just that I've never seen or heard anything to indicate that was the case. To my knowledge, no one in his family has ever spoken about his sexuality. Did any ex-boyfriends ever come forward? Again, not saying he wasn't, just that it'd be interesting to know what that rumor/assumption is based on.

r18 further proving his idiocy.

Ron was hoping for some primo pussy. Nicole was enjoying being single and making up for lost time.

Who wouldn't want to sleep with Ron. Hot Jewish cock.

What did Ron Goldman say to Nicole Brown Simpson when he saw her in heaven?

Here's you damned sunglasses, bitch!

A bath? That hussy! I have a small business and I drop off stuff that customers have forgotten all the time. They're dazzled by the customer service

R18, no one suggested that murderers never steal from a crime scene, but based on what we know there was little opportunity for that, and O.J. was very focused on his mission. He was on a tight schedule, he went there to kill her, got surprised by Ron, had to scuffle and fight with him, then finished Nicole off. He was pumped up with adrenalin. He had to get back home and get ready to leave for the airport. He had to clean up the blood evidence. (Even tho he did a very poor job, no one ever found the murder weapon or the bloody clothes.) Just speculation on my part but I don't think he was f ocused enough to steal any cocaine. And you know very well that if there was a chance in hell of portraying the killings as a drug deal gone wrong, his lawyers would have been all over that.

I think it was dick and drugs. Doesn't mean they should have been murdered, but no one tips well enough for a waiter to deliver left behind sunglasses. Remember, this was the early 90s.

I thought they were prescription sunglasses that belonged to Nicole’s mother.

Yes, R27. And as I recall, Ron and others had been to the house before to deliver food orders

They had been flirting for a while, if I remember correctly they went to the same gym. Faye Resnick said in her book that they also flirted at a Starbucks. His apartment was walking distance to her condo.

They probably were going to fuck.

I agree, R29. Booty call.

[quote] She had a sultry bath drawn the night that she was killed,

What is "a sultry bath"?

YOu know, when I was talking to my older, divorced sister about this she said it's silly to attach significance to the fact she was going to have a bath and had lit candles. She said it was not unusual for women to do that just to relax and pamper themselves. It's not something they do just to entertain some man.

R32 Agree. Plus when women take baths, sip wine, and light candles it means they are planning a luxurious masterbation session. Relaxing in the sudsy water while working their little lady beans to a nub.

The Goldman family was certain there was nothing going on between them - they likely knew their son/brother was gay

[quote]She had a sultry bath drawn the night that she was killed

Maybe she wanted a bath. If I was a rich woman, I'd have expensive candlelit baths all the time.

[quote]I don't think a casual friend goes out of his way to deliver forgotten glasses.

How about a waiter at a nice restaurant taking care of a repeat customer and good tipper?

[quote]When people say they thought Ron Goldman was gay, based on what exactly?

Based on his having frosted tips.

The cocaine was hidden in the glasses, you iddy otts!!!

Sultry bath = getting that pussy correct for pound town.

O.J. would never get his hands dirty. Like Trump, he always has others do his dirty work.

I also don't think he would have his kids' mother murdered, or put them in harm's way. And his daughter Arnelle was staying in the guest house that night.

The most logical explanation is he hired a thug to rob Nicole of jewelry he had given her. He hated people taking things from him, or 'punking' him (see: the Vegas robbery where he tried to get back his stuff).

Of course it all went horribly wrong. Goldman approached the house as the dumb thug was either breaking-in or hiding. An altercation happened between the two. Nicole heard the commotion, came outside screamed and got her throat sliced.

Timeline

[quote]O.J. would never get his hands dirty. Like Trump, he always has others do his dirty work.

Both though have or had histories of hitting. Trump publicly hit a son, and evidently hit a wife when his hair transplant went wrong. Those are unlikely to be isolated incidents. Plus notoriously Trump boasted about shooting someone on Fifth Avenue. He's so far escaped punishment for dirty work, but it doesn't seem wrong for Trump's name often to come up in the topical OJ fallout talk. People strongly sense a sociopathic (or worse) link.

Has Katie acknowledged that OJ was a double murderer?

^ Kato

Read If I Did It-Simpson gives precise details on what happened. Oddly, Simpson’s ghostwriter was Pablo Fenjves, who was Nicole’s neighbor and testified at the preliminary hearing about hearing the “plaintive wail” of Nicole’s Akita around the time of the murders.

Nobody ever mentions that Al Cowlings also owned a white Bronco, identical to OJ’s, at the time of the murder. I always assumed he helped OJ with the murder or the cleanup.

I think it was exactly what it was - Ron was returning the glasses and nothing more. Nicole was a regular at Mezzaluna and they all liked her. She was also the ex-wife of a celebrity, and that has cachet. Ron lived within walking distance of Nicole's condo and was dropping by to return the glasses on his way out for the night.

Wasn’t there a story going around that Nicole let Ron drive her Ferrari (a gift from OJ), OJ found out and confronted Ron about it?

There were Starbucks back then? And did they find the sunglasses on Ron?

Starbucks was rapidly growing in West LA in 1994. There was one in Brentwood near the gym Ron and Nicole frequented; it was a meat market.

There were already Starbucks across the street from each other in the 90s. It was not a start up at this point.

Are you sure it wasn't Coffee Bean and not Starbucks?

I KNOW there’s SOMETHING going on!

Bathtub sex is not as good as it sounds.

Well I loves me a good slip-n-slide R51~!

Slip n slide with a slide of bump n grind. 🛝 🚿

So, R43, you're saying that book answers the OP's question? And you're telling us to read it rather than just say it because...?

The white Bronco's relevance became apparent when the Detectives saw it on Rockingham, ran the plate and saw it was OJ's. The detectives saw blood smeared inside, and on the outside near the door handle.Then they saw blood drops on the walkway and thought they had a second crime scene.

[quote]She was also the ex-wife of a celebrity, and that has cachet.

The current wife of a celebrity has cachet. An ex-wife, not so much.

Has anyone mentioned that Goldman was dealing drugs and also a police informant? This doesn't mean that he deserved to be murdered, of course, but it does raise questions about who the intended victim was that night and what the motive behind the killings may have been. There are two other unsolved murders involving Mezzaluna employees. One of them was a friend of Ron Goldman's, Michael Nigg, who was killed in 1995.

[quote]Has anyone mentioned that Goldman was dealing drugs and also a police informant?

You stupid fuck. If that had been true then the defense team and the media would've been all over it like flies on shit.

Ron Goldman was a young guy who was a waiter and was not involved in drugs, dealing or selling. He was looking to start a career in the fitness industry.

[quote]The most logical explanation is he hired a thug to rob Nicole of jewelry he had given her.

The most logical explanation is that a jealous batterer was enraged that he was losing control of his victim and murdered her. Happens all the time.

Fag and hag.

OJ's blood was at the crime scene. Ron and Nicole's blood was on OJ's socks in his bedroom and also in the Bronco. The glove found on OJ's property had OJ's blood, Ron's blood and Nicole's blood. Case closed.

This was a time when DNA technology was relatively new and the general public didn't quite understand it yet. In today's world even the biggest moron would understand the blood evidence that was found.

[quote]There were already Starbucks across the street from each other in the 90s.

"Are we in this Starbucks or the one down the street?"

I was once in a band called “Sultry Bath.”

[quote]Michael Nigg

Worst. Name. Ever.

[quote] What do you think was actually going on between Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman?

They were both being murdered by OJ?

[quote] Worst. Name. Ever.

I hope Nigg’e daughter doesn’t marry a man named Err and decide to hyphenate her name.

You know, sex in a tub -- that doesn't work!

Former restaurant worker here.

The workers at the Mezzaluna restaurant knew that Nicole was celebrity-adjacent, having been married to OJ. Also, she had allowed Ron or some other guy to drive her Ferrari.

Normally, if a customer forgets something in a restaurant, the customer comes back to retrieve it.

Nicole was getting special treatment, i.e., having her mom's glasses delivered.

I do think the scene was set for a sexual encounter with Ron.

[quote]O.J. would never get his hands dirty.

He did when he beat her, and when he beat his first wife. He'd always talked his way out of trouble before, why would he think he wouldn't be able to do it again?

Wasn’t a knife from her kitchen set missing or something? I don’t think he went over there intending to kill her. I think he saw something that enraged him.

[quote]I think he saw something that enraged him.

Yep. Zero impulse control. As we’ve seen a million times from these people.

There was one knife from a set of knives on Nicole's kitchen counter that was missing.

r69 I think he at least went over looking for a fight. He was upset that he'd been dumped earlier that night, right?

[quote]these people

Do you mean domestic abusers, you racist shit stain r70?

[quote]He was upset that he'd been dumped earlier that night, right?

Are you referring to Paula Barbieri? I don't think that she broke up with OJ until after the murders.

He tried to call Paula that night but she wasn't home (most people didn't have a cell phone back then) and that contributed to his state of mind.

If you wanna see an example of an obsessed, deranged individual, then troll-dar R70. You’ll see exactly what he’s obsessed with. Lol

What a sick loser.

That's it, r74. Thanks.

"OJ's blood was at the crime scene."

It was reported long ago that a Brentwood resident saw a vehicle like OJ's fly by with the lights out. He went over to Nicole's after the thug told him what went down, cut himself on something- then took off for Chicago.

I watched something years ago that the knife was a deluxe Swiss Army knife that was given to him as a wrap present for that Navy Frogmen show (I wonder if that will ever see the light of day?) There was a picture of the box in his bathroom taken during the search. No knife tho. They thought the weapon might be a big knife but explained the deeper stab wounds were in parts that contract when you inhale. He was taught the throat slitting technique in his training for the same show.

[quote]It was reported long ago that a Brentwood resident saw a vehicle like OJ's fly by with the lights out. He went over to Nicole's after the thug told him what went down, cut himself on something- then took off for Chicago.

Oh for fuck's sake.

I'm convinced that he went there with the intention of killing her. The knife used in the crime did not match whatever was in her kitchen. He didn't get into the house anyway. If he and Nicole had been in the house he'd have killed her in the house. My speculation is that she came outside to get rid of him, they argued, and he killed her. You can see from the wounds in both victims, that this was a rage killing. His timing such that I believe he was hoping that between the Kato/MacDonald's alibi and the flight to Chicago, he would never be a suspect. There were no mafia thugs or drug deals. This was rage. There was OJ who had a history of battering women. He was estranged from his ex-wife and he killed her. It happens all the damned time.

[quote] What do you think was actually going on between Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman?

Anal

Oh dear 😳

[quote]I'm convinced that he went there with the intention of killing her.

He was wearing a knit cap and leather gloves in June in LA so yes he probably was ready to kill her that night.

He was pissed that they rejected him at the recital and that his girlfriend didn't answer the phone. And he was on meth

I don't recall reading this anywhere but was was the divorce settlement? Had it been reached? How much $$$ was she costing O.J.?

[quote]And he was on meth

Source?

I wonder what happened to the murder weapon and the clothes he wore to do the murders?

Didn't he dump a duffle bag at LAX r87?

The duffle bag he dumped in a garbage can at LAX as he was leaving for Chicago had the murder clothes and the knife, in all probability. There were eyewitnesses who saw OJ toss the bag.

He came over to discuss the works of Ezra Pound and Marcel Proust with her that night. They were huge intellectuals.

Ron’s Way

#80, so he just slayed Ron on the way out?

Yes r92

r90 she was German. They were going to discuss Hegel and Mann.

[quote]Worst. Name. Ever.

He was hot, though.

[quote]He was wearing a knit cap and leather gloves in June in LA so yes he probably was ready to kill her that night.

He dindu nuffin.

It will shock NO ONE that r70 = r96

r97 is our very own Nancy Drew

R97 is too stupid to know what June weather is actually like in LA… June gloom brings brisk evenings as you get closer the the beach, i.e. the Westside.

R84, I don't think meth was a drug of choice in OJ's milieu during that period. Simpson, his ex-wife, and some of her friends (e.g., Faye Resnick) were known cocaine users.

[quote] The Goldman’s have

Oh dear, OP.

I always assumed he was gay looking at his pictures. But then he had this unfortunate mid 90s haircut. Which many gay boys I knew had.

They all lived close. OJ at Rockingham was 7 minutes away from Nicole's condo on Bundy.

The Mezzaluna restaurant Ron left from was 2 minutes away from Nicole's condo by car, or 13 minutes away by foot.

Before returning the glasses, Ron stopped by his Brentwood apartment, at 11663 Gorham Avenue (which was a few minutes away from the restaurant). He had made plans to go out with Mezzaluna's bartender Stewart Tanner later that evening. Goldman then walked the approximately 10 minutes to Brown’s condominium.

---

9:15 p.m. - One of Nicole Brown Simpson's sisters calls Mezzaluna to say that Nicole's mother had left her glasses at the restaurant. Ronald Goldman volunteers to return the glasses.

9 p.m.-9:30 p.m. - Brian Kaelin, a friend staying in a guest house at O.J. Simpson's home, and Simpson go to McDonald's for dinner.

9:45 p.m. - Kaelin and Simpson return home.

9:48 p.m. - 9:50 p.m. - Goldman leaves the restaurant with a white envelope containing the glasses.

10:15 p.m. - While watching television, Pablo Fenjves, a neighbor of Nicole Brown Simpson, hears the cries and constant barking of a dog. --DOG BARKS ESTABLISHED TIME OF DEATH --

10:25 p.m. - Limousine driver Allan Park arrives at Simpson's home.

10:40 p.m. - Kaelin hears three loud thumps on an outside wall of his room.

His son Justin was 5 at the time while his daughter Sydney was 8, and had it not been for the family dog drawing the attention of a nearby resident when he emerged from the property with dried blood on his paw, the two children would have been the ones to discover their mother's body.

---

There is some interview somewhere where some assistant loyal to him for years, featured in other interviews helping him and giving the camera the evil eye, breaks down and admits OJ confessed to him. Said he looked inside and saw she had rose petals and candles lit gearing up for a sexy night. I think he mentioned something about Ron walking in on the scene and being an easy opponent. The assistant parted ways because he realized OJ did it with his kids upstairs and left the scene, left his kids there to potentially discover their mom like that.

He was selling her cocaine tupperware.

He and Kato went to score meth at McDonald's before the murders and it was a garment bags that disappeared. Barry Shapiro was filmed carrying it out of the house. Christ am I in a Mandela effect?

Why was Kato a houseguest of OJ's?

R100 Rick folks don’t waste $ on meth. Edoecicslly in LA, in the 90s.

I had a fraternity brother who dated one of the younger sisters in h.s.—Dana Hills High. They met up with the Simpson after their prom, and the four of them did blow together. The family that snorts together….you know the rest. That’s my OJ story.

My own sex&drugs story involves another USC football player…who went on to win a Super Bowl with the Raiders…that’s been told on an old thread.

*especially ^

Oops

Kato was a combo celeb groupie/starfucker/gopher/driver/assistant/poolboy who OJ took a liking to and kept around, due to his easygoing nature, likeability to his kids and ability to probably take OJ's abuse. I seem to recall he'd been a friend or employee of Nicole's first, but OJ ended up keeping him in the divorce.

Drug mule

Kato was to OJ as Leon was to Larry David.

Kato was the drug mule. Lots of celebrities who are into drugs have one. It's not like they can go out and get the drugs themselves, so they send somebody else to do it.

[quote]and ability to probably take OJ's abuse.

I can imagine if you're being provided a nice little bungalow in Brentwood and getting to live there for free, there's a LOT you'd be willing to put up with.

Kato is gay and was secretly getting plugged by OJ, who was bi and hid it well.

[quote]it was a garment bags that disappeared. Barry Shapiro was filmed carrying it out of the house.

I thought Robert Kardashian took it?

Keep your sexual fantasies out of this, R114.

Nicole and Ron were definitely fucking. What waiter returns a pair of glasses to someone after they've left the restaurant? The more likely thing to do would have been her calling to say that she'd pick them up the next day or something like that. And she was a cokehead, so it wouldn't surprise me if there was a sour drug deal mixed up in all this.

r117 it's been said before that there were no drugs found at the scene and by all accounts Ron Goldman was not involved with drugs at all.

This was also in the days before cell phones when you communicated in odd ways.

R118, sure it's been said, but you don't have to do drugs in order to be a courier. Or maybe he wasn't involved in drugs, but maybe Nicole stiffed some dealer and the guy who dropped the goods off before Ron arrived had other, more nefarious things in mind (murder).

Ron Goldman was gay

I don't care if anything was going on. It doesn't matter.

[Quote] He had to get back home and get ready to leave for the airport. He had to clean up the blood evidence. (Even tho he did a very poor job, no one ever found the murder weapon or the bloody clothes.)

Alan Parker who drove Simpson to the airport said he was putting the window down (even though it wasn't hot) and was busy moving things around in a bag on the way to the airport. Simpson was seen throwing a bag into a trash container at the airport.

No it doesn't matter, but if it was a drug deal/buy gone sour, then it would explain a lot. They weren't just murdered, they were mutilated. I'm not even saying that OJ wasn't somehow involved, but it would take more than just a middle-aged man with arthritis to kill two able-bodied young adults with a knife, one of whom was a muscular supposed exercise nut.

He was certainly capable of beating the shit out of her, r124.

Nicole wasn't a member of freakin' MS-13. OJ MURDERED HER.

R124 There is the element of surprise and both had their throats slit and neither Ron nor Nicole had a weapon on them.

It has always tickled me that money grabbing Fred Goldman was never able to cash in on his son's death. They weren't even speaking when Ron was killed.

Anyone know if he still sells shoes?

Oh, no doubt OJ was an abusive prick, but beating a woman and slitting the throats of two grown people, one of whom was bigger than you and worked out, are two different things. And we won't even go into the bungling of the murder scene. It would be more believable that OJ enlisted the help of someone to assist him in the murders rather than OJ, an arthritic-ridden middle aged man, was able to overpower a big muscular younger dude and a younger woman all by himself. Whatever happened, OJ took all of it to the grave with him.

Are you familiar with Occam's razor, r128?

^Of course, but OR, while the simplest answer, is not always the correct one.

[quote]sure it's been said, but you don't have to do drugs in order to be a courier. Or maybe he wasn't involved in drugs, but maybe Nicole stiffed some dealer and the guy who dropped the goods off before Ron arrived had other, more nefarious things in mind (murder).

No that didn't happen because OJ DID IT YOU FUCKING IDIOT. His blood was at the crime scene, Ron and Nicole's blood was at his house, on the glove and in his Bronco. Case closed.

Ron Goldman was caught by surprise and didn't have a weapon on him.

R128 OJ took medication for his arthritis which was brought out in court.

He was one of the greatest athletes of all time. Of course he killed her. Anyone with doubts is either contrarian or differently abled

[quote]No that didn't happen because OJ DID IT YOU FUCKING IDIOT.

Calm down, hoss. None of us was there, and the only three people who could give a definitive answer to any of this are dead. As unjust as many believe it to have been, he was found NOT guilty in a court of law.

[quote]Said he looked inside and saw she had rose petals and candles lit gearing up for a sexy night.

If OJ never entered the house, how would he have known she had rose petals and candles in the bathroom? It was probably the sexy black nightie that provoked his rage.

r135 is truly an idiot.

Ah, the "OJ is innocent" troll has showed up.

He DIDN'T do it. How d'ya like THEM apples??

He sure as fuck did do it. Blood evidence and DNA don't lie.

Limo driver Allan Park was cute. I remember him saying that OJ was really hot when entering the limo. Rolling down the window, etc.

Episode 4 of the Ezra Edelman documentary on ESPN, one of the prosecutors describes the sequence of the murders. He said, Oj Had already stabbed Nicole but she was struggling and he hit her in the head. She fell to the ground unconscious. Ron came up the walk saw her, and OJ jumped him, overpowered him, choke hold, stab wounds. Ron struggles with OJ, tore off the glove in the struggle. The hat as well, Ron was stabbed in the torso, the leg and had his t hroat slit, stab wounds on his cheek. Ron slumped to the ground and fell over against the fence. OJ went back to Nicole and continued to stab her and slit her throat so deeply he almost decapitated her. Please Google or go on You Tube and find the details and stop this bullshit theorizing about what coulda happened. There always has to be some dumbass troll who wants to provoke an argument by pulling theories already disproved, out of his ass. You're not worth arguing with.

Ron was pleasant looking, but not all that handsome. His eyes were very close together and he had that big nose.

Here's the video from the OJ Made In America doc from ESPN where the detective explains how the murders happened.

WTF is a "sultry bath?"

[quote] Ron was pleasant looking, but not all that handsome. His eyes were very close together and he had that big nose.

Maybe Nicole was hopeful that the old saying "big nose, big toes, big pee pee hose" was accurate.

Thank you, R144!

In the early days I could float the idea of possibility that OJ didn't do it if he didn't have a crazy explanation for everything.

But methinks the lady doth protest too much.

I should've put a warning that the video I posted at r144 has pics of the bodies.

Wasn't there something mentioned that when Kato asked to join OJ for a burger, OJ stared at him for a while, then agreed.

Meaning OJ intended to go check out Nicole's place but didn't want Kato to suspect anything.

[quote]WTF is a "sultry bath?"

Finger banging is involved.

You 'tards, OJ was Innocent! It was some other thug wearing size 12 Bruno Magli shoes terrorizing Brentwood.

OJ's "hypothetical" version of events.

Racist piece of shit that he is, Fuhrman was totally hot.

The prosecutors wanted Vanity to testify to prove Fuhrman's alleged non-racism, hence he would not have hit on a black woman if he was racist. Bullshit. Vanity was beautiful, and any man would have hit on her. Besides, that "Mark Fuhrman is not a racist" fallacy melted the minute we heard the "N" word tapes.

Actually, Kato going to Mac Donald's was perfect. It established O.J.'s alibi. Then he has to go to the airport, so I bet he thought he was covered and home free. Maybe he didn't think Nicole and Ron would be found so quickly. If it had not been for the dog with the bloody paws wandering around it might have taken a few more hours. Part of me wants to believe that even a monster would not have wanted his two little kids to stumble onto the scene of such a grisly crime. So I conjectured that maybe O J thought that Nicolke let the kids go home to Grandma's house so she could have her date night. But then I Speculate on how it happened. In my imagination he goes to the house and rings the bell. There was ice cream melting on the counter in the kitchen. She goes to the door and sees it's him. Maybe she said, "What are you doing here?" He starts ranting and tries to come in and she pushes him back, saying something like "You have to leave. The kids are asleep and I'm expecting company," and that was it. He totally loses his shit and smacks her (she had bruises) then hits her in the head with the knife handle hard enough to knock her unconscious, and begins stabbing.

R156 vhere. Also wanted to add that the entire crime from start to finish would not have taken more than a few minutes.

OJ was dating Tawny Kitaen when she was making the movie "Witchboard." Coincidentally, her co-star in that film, Todd Allen, later worked on a TV pilot with OJ around the time of the murders. The other day, he mentioned on his social media that the show was scrapped when everything happened. "Witchboard" writer/director Kevin Tenney also confirmed that OJ often visited the set during filming.

[quote]Coincidentally, her co-star in that film, Todd Allen, later worked on a TV pilot with OJ around the time of the murders

It was called FROGMEN. Reportedly, the actors had it scrubbed from their resumes.

The murders were pretty fast but would have been nothing for a powerful star athlete. The bodies were out on the front porch entry way. How he hurried up and quickly showered and disposed of everything.

I bet he was seething with anger and didn't realize what he had done until afterwards.

Although I'm certain that OJ did it in a fit of rage, I can understand why the jury found him not guilty. The prosecution didn't prove their case, plus the jury wasn't privy to the wall to wall coverage and analysis that the folks viewing at home were.

I was on a jury once. They will tell you to disregard all sorts of things and sometimes we were even removed from the room. You're not allowed to make leaps, all you can consider is the information presented.

Don’t you thunk if Ron were gay, one of his gay lovers would’ve come forward during the trial? If only to achieve notoriety and then benefit from their own celebrity status? Everybody else did.

[quote]if Ron were gay, one of his gay lovers would’ve come forward during the trial?

In 1994? I don't know. And for the record I do not think Ron Goldman was gay.

[quote] This was also in the days before cell phones when you communicated in odd ways.

Shmoke shignalsh!

It would have been easier to have found him guilty had not several key witnesses sold their stories to the tabloids, like the woman who saw his driving away from the house in the Ford Bronco. But once they sold their stories they were inadmissible as evidence.

Ron's blood was found in the Bronco.

But the defense wanted to make everyone think the racist crooked LAPD planted it.

Kato said OJ told everyone they ate McDonald's in the kitchen and that wasn't true. Kato could feel OJ wanting to use him as an alibi.

Yeah, Kato said that that was the first (and only) time that OJ ever asked him to do something like that (go to McDonald's).

No, Kato asked to go with.

Yes, R166, and that's the biggest plot hole of all, because the LAPD had no idea of where O.J. was. And when his daughter Arnell told the cops he was in Chicago, that fact would have certainly discouraged t hem from the notion that they could plant evidence of his guilt. They only found out that O.J. had the opportunity after they found the gloves and hat .

The Los Angeles Times reported that Goldman "punched out at 9:33 pm and stayed another 15 minutes to have bottled water at the bar." Before returning the glasses, he stopped by his Brentwood apartment, at 11663 Gorham Avenue. He had made plans to go out with Mezzaluna's bartender Stewart Tanner later that evening. Goldman then walked the approximately 10 minutes to Brown’s condominium.

23:20 Kato asked to go with OJ. OJ paused, then said OK.

Kato's current hair looks weird. The cut is OK, but the color, ugh. Just like during the trial, his frosted tips were distracting.

R45 According to a June 15, 1994, Los Angeles Times article published three days after his death, Goldman met Brown only six weeks prior to the date they were murdered, when he borrowed her Ferrari. The two grew increasingly friendly, occasionally meeting for coffee and dinner in the weeks before their deaths. According to police and friends, however, the relationship between the two was platonic. One article noted that he had borrowed her car when he met his friend, Craig Clark, for lunch. According to Clark, he told him it was her car, but that he did not say she was his girlfriend. Instead, Goldman said they were friends

What does Kato Kaelin do for money now, thirty years later?

Who could know if it was platonic or not?

So Ron didn't drive over to the condo? I have a question. Does anyone recall what happened with the Nicole's kids? Because the bodies and all that blood was out front. I assume there was a back way out ? Did the cops take them or did someone like Arnell come to get them?

R176 Ron's butt buddies

I think Ron accepted the errand of taking back the glasses because he knew Nicole and they had a casual relationship.

It was reported Ron had plans to meet up with the bartender friend from work later, so if Nicole was planning to surprise him with a booty call, he probably wasn't expecting it.

Kato thinks he's guilty.

No lies or coverups in the case concerning the victims.

The guilt is that of an entitled lunatic lying about his actions, and even teasing about them. I hope his consciousness feels the incinerator,

Goldman was described hundreds of times during the trial by the press as "Nicole's friend." Maybe some of you weren't around, then, and don't remember that.

I seem to remember Kato met Nicole at a ski resort. I don't know why that sticks in my mind.

This timeline says Ron went home after work to change his clothes before going to Nicole's. That would make sense, since he was a waiter, in his work clothes.

The weather during the day was 60 degrees. I don't know what it was in the evening but I doubt it would occasion wearing a stocking cap and gloves.

Kato met Nicole in Aspen. (At 3:00.)

I don't think anyone in this story was a candidate for sainthood. I think it's very easy to assume that Ron and Nicole had a sexual relationship and that Ron may have been a dealer, doesn't mean they should have been murdered.

"Easy to assume?" You mean speculate, conjecture? YOu have no basis in fact to go there. None. Unless you're basing your assumptions on someone else's speculation? That's...real smart.

I think Nicole's parents raised Sydney & Justin (the children of OJ & Nicole).

[quote]YOu have no basis in fact to go there.

Of course I don't. Did I say that I did? The whole thread is speculation. That's kind of what the OP asked.

The craziest part of the story is anyone in LA walking anywhere for10 minutes - AND at night?!?

R159 trivia point number two is interesting and creepy.

I kind of want to see this movie. Dark haired dude in front looks cute.

I think Ron and Nicole were just friends.

Well, r38, your theory is great---if one ignores tons of evidence incriminating OJ, which didn't pass the Civil Trial.

To anyone thinking the police (Fuhrmann, Lange, Vannatter, etc.) "planted" evidence to "frame" OJ:

1. That "planting" would have left the detectives liable for a crime. Would they really have risked their own freedom to "close the case"?

2. While at the crime scene, Fuhrmann and Co. had NO IDEA WHERE OJ WAS! What would have been the defense of any cop who tried to "frame" OJ if it developed that OJ had an iron-clad ALIBI, with witnesses galore to his whereabouts all evening?? Again: Risking their own arrest.

3. There was not only no known enmity between the police and OJ; the former liked the latter.

OJ getting Kato wasn't another form of abuse to Nicole, was it? In a "Look how powerful I am, I can take your friends because I'm the star" sort of power play.

R190 are you kidding? A racist cop in Brentwood who had probably knew about the domestic abuse calls before about a black man beating a white blond woman? I don’t think OJ would have had any fans in the police department in that regard.

And no divorced woman lets a casual friend drive, use her Ferrari. Her money for huge expenses like that has been capped, and the expensive shit she owns becomes her calling card for her next man. You just don’t loan it out casually unless you’re getting something in exchange, like free drugs left in the glove compartment.

Nicole, Chris K and Faye were all coke head party girls who fucked each others’s men - at least Chris. They were gold digging, social climbing sluts who in NO way would be associating with or “Friends Of” the likes of waiters or houseboys UNLESS they were some kind of drug connection.

[quote]That "planting" would have left the detectives liable for a crime. Would they really have risked their own freedom to "close the case"?

R190, have you ever heard of the Rampart scandal? LAPD officers were found to have planted evidence, dealt narcotics, committed perjury, engaged in cover-ups, and other forms of criminal activity. The ensuing civil cases cost the city of Los Angeles in excess of $100 million.

[quote] OJ getting Kato wasn't another form of abuse to Nicole, was it? In a "Look how powerful I am, I can take your friends because I'm the star" sort of power play.

Kato got to live rent-free in his guest or pool house. I've been in that area of LA (Brentwood) before. It's a really nice neighborhood. Very low-key, actually. I was surprised that that was where OJ lived.

[quote]I was surprised that that was where OJ lived.

Why?

[quote]A racist cop in Brentwood who had probably knew about the domestic abuse calls before about a black man beating a white blond woman? I don’t think OJ would have had any fans in the police department in that regard.

Fuhrman was already acquainted with OJ and Nicole. He went to OJ's house in 1985 in response to a domestic violence call. Fuhrman discusses this in the 2016 documentary [italic]OJ: Made in America[/italic]. Simpson had a baseball bat and was menacing Nicole with it. Furhman told him to put the bat down and threatened Simpson with his police baton.

R195, just because, like I said above, it (Brentwood) was a pretty understated area. I would have thought he wanted to live in a more flashy area of LA.

[quote]I kind of want to see this movie. Dark haired dude in front looks cute.

That's Louis Mandylor, Costas's younger brother. Dan Gauthier from TEEN WITCH is standing on the left, and Todd Allen is squatting next to Louis.

[quote][R159] trivia point number two is interesting and creepy.

Agreed.

[italic]During a break in filming, Todd Allen accompanied O.J. Simpson to a cutlery store where Simpson purchased a knife. The Los Angeles Police Department believed that that knife was the murder weapon which was never discovered.[/italic]

R185, you’re a real idiot.

Yikes, she has been married 4X. Wikipedia shows her current husband as Sean Ellingson. Torres is listed as an ex-husband. Had children from 3 of the husbands. For 2 of the marriages, she got married the same year as the divorce from the previous guy.

She probably feels like she needs to be married in order to be fucking.

Him living in Brentwood was not surprising at all.

Fucking and loving every minute of it…

R196, the "white blonde woman" who was O.J.'s wife was treated with contempt by most of the cops who went on the domestic violence runs. As Fuhrman himself claimed in an interview, he asked her if she wanted to press charges and she said no. and he said, "well it's your life." and left her there, actually doing nothing to end the threat towards her, or protect or aid her in any way. Interestingly, I think by the 1990's the laws had changed. For years, Domestic violence was treated as a "private family matter."

Then, thanks to people like Uncle Joe Biden the Violence Against Women Act was passed. Laws changed at the state and local level. Domestic violence was historically held separately from regular assault charges. But that ended. From that point, if a crime had been committed, the perp was charged and arrested. And if it was domestic violence it was no longer treated differently. Unfortunately, the cops themselves did not always honor or respect those laws, and continued to treat it as the whole, "Do you want to press charges?"

In O.J.'s case I think only one cop went after him for assault, and he bargained it down to some bullshit community service sentence. Interestingly, Gay men in relationships with abusive guys also suffered from the indifference and contempt of law enforcement for domestic violence incidents. But in interracial relationships between Black men and white women, especially someone of the star caliber of O.J. the cops had no problem with psychologically separating their favorite NFL star from the white woman and expressing their contempt, call it their racism and sexism towards her, while holding him blameless. Their feeling was she probably deserved to have her ass whipped. And in general, men who have control issues, (lots of cops get busted for domestic violence.) are definitely going to want to control a flashy, mouthy, flirty, beautiful woman. Nicole was no mousy woman. She was not self effacing, quiet and dutiful. She had a personality.

In the 911 call background OJ's yelling about how she sucked someone's dick in the living room. The operator asks Nicole if she did something he didn't like.

Yikes, R204 - appalling

[quote]R38 And his daughter Arnelle was staying in the guest house that night.

No she wasn't. Kato lived there and was home the night of the murders. He was on the phone when OJ jumped over the wall into his backyard. He heard the loud thump and thought it might be an earthquake.

Arnelle let Fuhrman in. That's why the defense said he could have planted the glove.

At approximately 5:45 a.m., the four detectives walked up to the front door, rang the bell, and started knocking on its wooden panels. Getting no response, the men walked around the side of the property to a row of three bungalows. At the first one, after pounding on the door, a man appeared who identified himself as Kato Kaelin, a friend and house guest of Simpson. At the next bungalow they aroused an attractive young woman who identified herself as Arnelle Simpson, O.J.'s daughter. Leaving Fuhrman with Kaelin, the other three detectives accompanied Arnelle Simpson into the house to check on the security of the occupants. Finding the house empty they sat down and interviewed Kaelin.

It's got to be rough for his kids.

Hertz exec dies on same day as OJ

Oh, I didn't know he had more than one guest house. Sorry R38!

R193, I think the Ramparts Scandal primarily involved cops assigned to the Gang Squad. That's a long long way from Brentwood. If you are a detective in the Los Angeles Robbery/Homicide division, and your prime area involves the elites of Brentwood, you are in a different class from Gang Squad. You are part of an elite division in the pecking order, and it's one that a lot of cops would love to be part of. Those detectives had to know that since they were dealing with a very high profile celebrity -adjacent crime they were going to have a lot of attention from media. With the eyes of the media on them, the detectives and the prosecutors were going to want to get it right. (And yet even with all that, you had technicians fucking up the crime scene, you had two dumb ass detectives, Laing and Van Atter not following procedures. Putting a blanket over Nicole's body? Carrying blood samples TO the crime scene in your coat pocket? .) But even still I don't think they would want to risk getting busted for planting evidence.

^oops...meant to sign that R206.

I would like to know how wealthy he was and how did he hide his money.

Remember - OJ saw Ron Goldman driving around one of Nicole's cars - one that he had purchased for her.

They were definitely have a relationship.

What staff drops off keys to someone's house? Who leaves their keys at a restaurant / bar overnight? I guess she could have had spare keys somewhere, but that always sounded weird.

Besides - why would your keys be out? Don't woman keep them in their purse? The whole thing sounded made up - but it doesn't matter because dating someone and having sex is not a crime.

If Nicole's mom hadn't left her glasses at the restaurant that night... Ron Goldman's dad and sister must have thought about that moment so many times. That guy was very loved by his family.

R214 so Ron dropped her car off, but forgot the keys and had to return them? Or a member of the staff? I’ve never heard this keys thing before. Regardless, if they were fucking 10 times a day, or not at all, no one deserves to be butchered they way they were. The only thing that really matters is if OJ THOUGHT something was going on.

The first detective that talked to OJ could have wrapped up the case in less than a minute.

Detective: Mr. Simpson your wife has been killed.

OJ: Oh my God - Nicole!

Detective: I didn't say which wife, sir.

I don't agree with that theory R217.

Is r217 real?

That's okay - it's just a thought for Datalounge.

Produced and filmed in early 1994, this made-for-TV movie was never publicly released because it was intended as a pilot for an NBC series to air in the fall of 1994 and, following O.J. Simpson's arrest, any plans for producing the series were canceled. The completed film, the dailies, production reports, scripts and all other paperwork were confiscated by the Los Angeles District Attorney's Office and examined during the course of the murder investigation. It was argued, at one point, that O.J. Simpson's training for his character as a Navy S.E.A.L. in Frogmen, might have facilitated his ability to commit the murders. After Simpson's acquittal in 1995, the film remained (then and to this day) confiscated in the property of the Los Angeles Police Department.

During a break in filming, Todd Allen accompanied O.J. Simpson to a cutlery store where Simpson purchased a knife. The Los Angeles Police Department believed that that knife was the murder weapon which was never discovered.

R214 get the story straight. What was left at the restaurant were the glasses of Nicole's mom.

R221, did you miss R158/R159?

Robert Kardashian disposed of the murder weapon and bloody clothes.

Yeah, what's all this about keys?

You rang?

It’s lesbionic thing.

I don't think Robert Kardashian did that. If you told me AC did it I'd believe it, but Robert K loved O.J. and wanted to believe he was innocent, and O.J. needed him to keep thinking that.

Ron Goldman had a super cute girlfriend. I remember her being interviewed a couple of times on TV. There was a picture of Ron, her, and their dog. They were such a cute couple. Ron taught tennis at a facility for kids with disabilities. Everyone loved him.

OJ dying has (in a strange way) made me nostalgic for the 1990s.

Who was the female reporter who covered the trial every day on one of the cable networks (A & E? Not sure.) I was unemployed during the trial and watched it all the time. She had gray or salt-and-pepper hair.

Never mind, I think it was Kathleen Sullivan.

...On E! News Daily?

Pretty much every Crim Law professor at Ucla, USC or Loyola had a gig on local or national news during the proceedings.

Here is my first year Crim Law professor Stanley Goldman…literally nothing has changed since I was in his class (1986!).

When the detectives called OJ at his hotel in Chicago and told him his ex-wife had been killed, OJ never asked how she died. That alone shows his guilt.

OJ did it. You're a moron if you think otherwise.

[Quote] When the detectives called OJ at his hotel in Chicago and told him his ex-wife had been killed, OJ never asked how she died. That alone shows his guilt.

R234 if the detectives told OJ his ex-wife had been killed doesn't that answer how she died?

You would be wrong, r192. The cops were EXTREMELY reluctant to pursue DV charges against OJ.

R207, Can you read? I'll reiterate:

The police had no idea whether or not OJ had an IRON-CLAD ALIBI that would 100% expose their "evidence planting."

Do you think Furhmann & Co. ALSO brought with them Size 12 Bruno Maglis? Oh, please; do tell us that Arnelle went to get them, to help frame her father!

Do you think the limo driver saw someone ELSE skulking late into OJ's house?

Where do you suppose the cops got samples of OJ's blood to drip and drop on the car door, the discarded socks, and the crime scene?

Now, I'm sure the defenders of OJ, who OF COURSE paid attention to the Civil Trial and then read Daniel Petrocelli's book about it, can take every single bit of inculpatory evidence and "explain it away" as results of:

crooked cops and planted evidence;

inept technicians ("What about THAT, Mr. Fung?!");

institutionalized racism and the "N" word said by an LA cop (Say it isn't so!);

lapse in the evidentiary chain of possession (looking at Vannatter);

"there wasn't enough time" for both the murderering and the plane-boarding;

"one man couldn't have done it all."

All the above cited as "proof" of Simpson's innocence.

These defenders have never heard of Occam's Razor.

[quote]if the detectives told OJ his ex-wife had been killed doesn't that answer how she died?

It could have been a car accident, or some other kind of accident. He never asked what the circumstances were. Any innocent person would have a lot of questions.

r236 not really. (I am not r234 by the way.) If someone called me and said, "You brother has been killed," my first reaction would be "What happened?" Was it a car accident? A murder? An animal attack? Etc etc etc. In fact, this happened to me recently -- a family member called and said, "Family Member X died last night." He was young -- only 19 -- and my first words were, "Omg. What happened?"

[Quote] "there wasn't enough time" for both the murdering and the plane-boarding;

not so sure about that one

Marry me, r241

[quote]He had made plans to go out with Mezzaluna's bartender Stewart Tanner later that evening. Goldman then walked the approximately 10 minutes to Brown’s condominium.

Ron Goldman and the bartender were probably fucking.

This was a violent crime done in a fit of rage by someone who knew Nicole well, ie OJ. It doesn’t fit the pattern of a random drug dealer she owed money to or something like that as some have suggested. It was jealousy, anger, passion, and mostly rage.

How did Ron afford a Brentwood apartment on a waiter's salary?

Back then, in the good old days (early 1990s), one could rent a decent apartment in LA on a waiter's salary. I believe he had other income as well, from part-time fitness training or something similar.

[quote]I believe he had other income as well

🤔

[Quote] No it doesn't matter, but if it was a drug deal/buy gone sour, then it would explain a lot. They weren't just murdered, they were mutilated. I'm not even saying that OJ wasn't somehow involved, but it would take more than just a middle-aged man with arthritis to kill two able-bodied young adults with a knife, one of whom was a muscular supposed exercise nut.

R124 OJ was on good shape in 1994

The assistant

Kato might have lied by omission. Marcia Clark asked him on the stand if OJ was happy with his company to get dinner and he said "wouldn't you?" and everyone laughed. That really neglected getting into what he said years later, OJ not wanting him there. Maybe he only pieced it together later in his mind. I would think what they talked about in the car and the feeling of being unwanted would be important. Maybe that's why Kati was ridiculous for his facetiousness.

It's not fair to have such differing caliber of counsel. They should rate lawyers and only allow same grade lawyers oppose each other.

You need to calm down R238. Nobody actually believes O.J. was innocent of this crime. The only controversy here is whether the jury acted properly in nullifying his guilt and finding him not guilty. Perhaps that is what you are angry about. But stop arguing a point that no one is really making, it just makes you look crazy.

Maybe R238 IS nuts.

One of the few television series Ryan Murphy got right.

R229 I was thinking the exact same thing. As soon as I heard he died I curious to see how the media would cover the death of one of the most notorious murderers of a wistful bygone era - thirty years after the fact.

OJ had become mostly a joke, a punchline at this point, a cartoon villain, signing autographs in Vegas. He had become more notorious than hated in popular culture.

1994-95 was the last time I really felt like I fit in. Just before high school. The OJ case is weirdly nostalgic for me (sorry Nicole and Ron, RIP)

Goldman also worked as a tennis pro at a country club but was fired for dealing drugs on the premises.

That is not true r256. Goldman was not involved with drugs. As has been said, if he had been involved with drugs the media and the defense team would've been all over it.

People associate drugs with being a bad person. You can still do drugs and be a great guy, they aren’t always mutually exclusive. It could very well be Ron didn’t sell drugs, but knew a very good source and was able to get it for people who wanted it. I’ve done that before when I knew a great coke source in NYC. I didn’t sell it. And by all accounts I’m a great guy too.

Yes, so many posters are acting like cocaine use in LA in the '90s is some kind of scarlet letter. I was living in a small town in flyover county when the murders happened and even I was doing coke at the time.

Nothing wrong with partying, just saying that there was no evidence that Goldman was into drugs at all. He was a fitness fanatic and no one who was acquainted with him ever said anything about drug use.

As another poster said, it’s irrelevant.

So, I wonder if when he was beating her (and demanding to know who she was waiting for), Nicole said something like "It's Ron from Mezzalunas!" in her desperation. Then, when Ron showed up a few minutes later, OJ was lying in wait for him and ambushed him.

Why would police risk jumping a wall to get inside of an estate knowing full well that any evidence they come across could possibly be inadmissible? Two detectives, no less, who would know better.

R262 characterization of Nicole's possible last words made me chuckle. It's like a Ryan Murphy line right before the nazi vampires with aids suck the youthful essence out of their latest victim. "It's RON! Ron from Mezzalunas!" argghhh....

I imagine if you think (or know) you're going to die, you say just about anything.

It's really kind of horrific to think about. I wonder if she thought Ron would show up in time to save her.

Mezzaluna sounds like a planet in a 1950s sci-fi movie.

^ Ron could have gotten it first. Do we know for sure?

r267 I think (as did prosecutors) that Ron showed up after OJ had started attacking Nicole. I'm not sure he could have overpowered both of them. And if they were both present, then OJ could only attack one at a time. The other one could have run inside and called 911.

It makes much more sense that Nicole was already incapacitated when Ron arrived on the scene.

I didn’t realize that the kids were home at the time of the murders. Did they really not hear anything?

R266 to me it just sounds like the word for a half-moon.

But I’m just a dumb Eye-talian…which means you’re a random idiot SOB.

R269 maybe

They probably know and have repressed everything because no one's psyche can handle Dad killing Mom

Yeah, but like where were the kids found? Asleep in bed? Seems like they would have been downstairs or running outside, especially with the dog going crazy.

Ron was a good looking guy in LA in the 90s, lived in Brentwood on a waiter's salary and possibly something fitness related - but couldn't overpower OJ who was older.

I believe that OJ killed Ron and Nicole. But I also believe that Ron was probably a little shady. Everyone liked him, if he didn't deal, he had a good connect to those who did. And if he wasn't already fucking Nicole, he was about too.

I don't understand the need to turn victims into angels. Shady people get murdered all the time and don't deserve it.

So what if they were about to fuck? Nicole was separated from OJ and Ron was a single guy. The idea that they somehow brought it on themselves by possibly being involved is repugnant

Why would anyone be judging Ron if he used coke back then? Doing coke in 90s Brentwood/LA would be akin to breathing oxygen, it was so common.

[quote]So what if they were about to fuck? Nicole was separated from OJ and Ron was a single guy.

Which is my point.

[quote]The idea that they somehow brought it on themselves by possibly being involved is repugnant

I haven't seen anyone post anything like this.

You’re the one who brought the idea of them doing drugs and fucking into a “he was no angel” post dipshit

[quote]You’re the one who brought the idea of them doing drugs and fucking into a “he was no angel” post dipshit

Doesn't mean they should have been or deserved to be murdered. I'm not sure how you made that leap, fuckface.

Ironically, "she's no angel either" is one main way that society continues to turn a blind eye to victims of domestic violence. If victims are not perfect, then they must have done something to contribute to the abuse.

OJ claimed as much. He said that Nicole was the primary agressor and that he felt like a battered husband.

[quote]OJ claimed as much. He said that Nicole was the primary agressor and that he felt like a battered husband.

There are accounts of Nicole verbally abusing OJ over his alleged infidelities during their marriage. It certainly sounds like a toxic relationship but nothing justifies his documented physical abuse of Nicole, no matter how obnoxious her behavior may have been. Something to keep in mind is that Nicole was still a teenager when she first met Simpson. They met when she was 18, and Nicole dropped out of college to live with OJ at 19. This may have affected her emotional development.

They were in a Tuesday PM bowling league together.

No one has said anyone deserved to be murdered.

You should be able to say you think someone has a less than perfect character, without someone else accusing you of implying they deserved it.

[quote]There are accounts of Nicole verbally abusing OJ over his alleged infidelities during their marriage.

That really doesn't amount to "verbal abuse" in a domestic violence context, though -- especially considering he was BEATING THE SHIT OUT HER.

I had an abusive father. He would just explode, verbally and physically towards my mother. His constant theme, was " You just don't know when to shut up!" My mother wasn't "mouthy." She did argue back. She did try to explain or defend herself verbally. But it was about control for him. He was a fucking bully. She was afraid to leave him. But he died in a car accident for which I thank God every fucking day.

While those unfamiliar with the O.J. Simpson case could possibly assume that the relationship between Nicole Brown Simpson, who at the time had been divorced from her ex-husband for nearly two years, and Ron Goldman, who worked as a waiter, was romantic in nature, it turns out this was hardly the case. In a 1994 piece published by the Los Angeles Times only days after his death, multiple sources, including those within the police force, said they thought Goldman and Brown Simpson were just friends.

Goldman reportedly met Brown Simpson for the first time while he was out with his friends at a local Starbucks. The group ran into Brown Simpson there enough that she eventually formed a friendship with all of them, including Goldman.

Kim and Fred Goldman break their silence 25 years after the murders

Nicole Brown Simpson dialed 911 in October of 1993 and told the dispatcher that her ex-husband had broken into her home. He wouldn’t leave the property, she explained: “He’s ranting and raving outside in the front yard.” The dispatcher wanted to know whether the man had been drinking. Nicole said no, “but he’s crazy.”

and less than a year later . . .

That tape didn't convince the jury.

[quote]Kim and Fred Goldman break their silence 25 years after the murders

WHAT?!?

Those money grubbers haven't shut up once in 25 years.

r291 = OJ, posting from hell

[quote]That tape didn't convince the jury.

That jury was unconvinceable.

[quote]Why would police risk jumping a wall to get inside of an estate knowing full well that any evidence they come across could possibly be inadmissible? Two detectives, no less, who would know better.

Search warrants don't apply when the cops think a person's life is in immediate danger. Fuhrman and co. had no idea where OJ was and since his ex-wife had just been murdered and they found blood drops at OJ's house, they had due process to proceed without a search warrant. The bloody glove etc. were admissiable.

I had no idea Ron was such a shady figure. We were always fed that he was a virtual Boy Scout who returned lost things on his own time, and possibly fought with Nicole's killer.

No matter who killed her, I still think Ron walked up the sidewalk and a confrontation ensued. Nicole heard the commotion and came outside and started screaming, and the killer offed her, too- then escaped.

Ron was not a "shady figure." A lot of bullshit was slung out there to dirty up the victims and claim OJ didn't do it, that by inference or by openly saying it, suggest that the victims brought it on themselves by being shady. Or promiscuous, or WTF ever. Ron worked in a restaurant. He was 25, reasonably attractive, very social, very busy young guy who offered to stop by and drop off her mother's glasses. Maybe he was having a flirtation with Nicole, or he wanted to. So what? He was butchered. Guy was in the wrong place at the wrong time and he was slaughtered in a frenzied attack. Over kill. He was stabbed repeatedly POST MORTEM.

If Ron Goldman was a shady character it would have come out with all the many press leaks orchestrated during and before the trial, and certainly after the trial when the interest had not abated. You cannot keep those kinds of rumors quiet and the Defense attorneys would have made sure to smear mud of Ron, because their job, is to establish doubt. If Ron was "shady" and had associations with bad people, or other "shady " people the possibility that Ron's shady character was responsible for his murder and Nicole's. It is bullshit.

Some DL posters have active imaginations. There is no evidence whatsoever that Ron was shady or into drugs. As r297 said, the defense would've been all over it like flies on shit if there was even a shred of evidence. There was nothing.

As reminder this is the OP's thead title

[quote]What do you think was actually going on between Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman?

Which would lead most people to think that the OP wants the people interested in this thread to speculate and give their thoughts on the subject.

Some people are just speculating and nothing more.

What I find fascinating is this idea that being into drugs is some kind of character flaw. I would find it strange if Ron hadn't done coke. It was the 90s.

Nobody's saying it's a character flaw, just that nothing has ever been evidenced that Ron was into drugs. He was very into health and fitness and worked as a personal trainer, and everybody who knew him said he was a clean-living guy.

Christ, not everybody in LA in the 90s was tweaker WeHo party boy.

What all’s involved in a sultry bath?

[quote]What all’s involved in a sultry bath?

Calgon Bath Beads and Candles, maybe a splash of Jean Nate

It’s the bath that takes you away!

90s version of doing bath salts…

[quote]If Ron was "shady" and had associations with bad people, or other "shady " people the possibility that Ron's shady character was responsible for his murder and Nicole's.

Obviously the only person responsible was the murderer (or murderers). Goldman was young, though, and may not have had very good judgment. A private investigator hired by OJ's defense team said that both Nicole and Ron were in over their heads with drug dealers.

[quote]A private investigator hired by OJ's defense team said that both Nicole and Ron were in over their heads with drug dealers.

Which was complete bullshit.

Damn! These the same gloves?

Serial killer Glen Rogers documentary.

R304 and what did they find exactly, and is there any proof of this that doesn't need a colonoscope to see it

R304, The operative words are "OJ's defense team said...."

How gullible ARE you?!

O.J. was filled with rage. People were very gullible to be fooled by that plastic smile and facade of affability. O.J. thought by ingratiating himself to White people, rich white people, .and becoming wealthy too, they would accept him. After all they had no problem saying to him, "I don't think of you as Black, you're just O.J." and if they didn't say it outright, they certainly implied it. I'm sure many of them got up the nerve to ask him to explain why certain Black folks acted a certain ways. And his skinnin' and grinnin' for the White folks had to be exhausting. Because while he certainly had issues, O.J. was not stupid. He knew he wasn't accepted.

#310, you're projecting..

R310 Yes the racism was so bad and that's partly why Rodney King beatings happened. Oj married Nicole because he wanted to get out of a leg up in the racist society which whites are unaware of. OJ took out the racism on Nicole, who was white, and Cochran took it out on the Goldman's.

Are you serious? Did he really have to do that?

I don't think people today understand how much my grandfather and father's generation hated white people. OJ would have been my father's generation. A lot of successful black men of his generation got off fucking and marrying white women just to spite white men.

Not to completely derail this thread, but I recently learned about some of the controversies surrounding author Amiri Baraka.

In his 1984 autobiography, he wrote:

[quote]A woman asked me in all earnestness, couldn't any whites help? I said, you can help by dying. You are a cancer. You can help the world's people with your death.

The following is from a 1965 essay:

[quote]Most American white men are trained to be fags. For this reason it is no wonder their faces are weak and blank ... The average ofay [white person] thinks of the black man as potentially raping every white lady in sight. Which is true, in the sense that the black man should want to rob the white man of everything he has. But for most whites the guilt of the robbery is the guilt of rape. That is, they know in their deepest hearts that they should be robbed, and the white woman understands that only in the rape sequence is she likely to get cleanly, viciously popped.

Which had nothing to do with anything.

You just now know of Baraka?

r315 I was replying to the sentiment in r313

Still, nothing to do with it. Sorry

Your thread-monitoring propensities are noted, r317

To say all Black men hated white people is too pat. From my personal experience (I'm Black but with a White, half Latino mother ) I think it was more complicated. Most Black people only dealt with Whites when they had to. They dealt with them at work or in other roles, but when they were home, they were consumed with their own lives and their own issues. Their social lives, etc. were totally separate and apart. Now, there is resentment, the people I know can be wary and distrustful, with good reason, but few rose to the level of hate. And they do still joke about how some white people act. I've seen more laughter at Whites than hate.

South of San Vicente Boulevard, Brentwood is full of apartments for UCLA students and young professionals. Back then it wasn’t particularly pricey. Also-there’s little parking in Brentwood, and the bus system is about as good as it gets in LA -Ron didn’t need a car.

OJ lived north of Sunset, which is full of expensive homes. Nicole first lived on Gretna Green after her divorce, near Marilyn Monroe’s home—that’s where the 911 call was made. She moved shortly after to her condo on Bundy, which was a downgrade-she lived walking distance from Ron’s apartment, and Bundy is a major thoroughfare in West LA.

Did the coroner smell his fingers?

R319, I am not sure how old you are. But black people definitely were not laughing at silly white people. My grandparents generation came up out of the south -1920s/1930s south. They grew up fearing white people and their rage and their violence. The men and women were demeaned, assaulted. My grandparents were routinely called boy and girl, as grown adults just as a matter of fact. Lynching wasn't uncommon all through the south - at least once a month for decades across the south, someone would disappear, show up dead. I remember my grandma telling a story of being panicked because my uncle as a kid drank out of a white water fountain in Mississippi in the early 1960s. So.... Then fast forward to my parents generation in the North, midwest. My parents were ushered into school by the National Guard every year with students AND parents shouting "N go home." Every year started this way from middle school all the way up through high school. OJ Simpson, a young black athlete in the 60s and 70s, would have definitely gone through similar things before he was OJ and not black. I am 100% sure of it. This wasn't just stuff in movies, these were real lives, my family's lives.

And I grew up hearing the stories. And I grew up hearing the burning hatred, and distrust. Of course people had white friends, but just as in the reverse, that friend was the exception. But no, Black people of a certain generation did not like white people. Especially black people from the south. Funny enough, my entire family on my grandma's side grew up in their small town, went to school with Nina Simone. She was best friends with my great uncle Fred, in Tryon, North Carolina. Read up and see what she thinks of white people in general.

I on the other hand grew up in an entirely white world.

[quote]Calgon Bath Beads and Candles, maybe a splash of Jean Nate

And just a pinch of coke, natch.

R322, I appreciate you sharing all of that history. People need to hear it, so don’t ever stop sharing it.

Love,

A white person whose eyes are finally wide open to our actual history, and it’s so ugly and horrific, we were taught a myth and half-truths only.

R322

According to Tuskegee - lynching were rare after 1950. How old are you?

Didn’t they teach you anything in school? My god…what ok you so long. The history has been there all along …

“A white person whose eyes are finally wide open to our actual history, and it’s so ugly and horrific, we were taught a myth and half-truths only.” < sounds insipid, if not too sincere

You know what r326? If you live long enough, may you too also change and learn. Learning = good.

Woke, here...

To help answer the OP's question look up Nicole's close friend Cora Fischman. At the time of her friendship with Nicole, Cora was an unhappily married mother of young children. Cora and Nicole would regularly go running together, have play dates with their kids, and confide in one another about their relationships. The transcripts of Fischman's depositions from OJ's civil case are online; I have posted the transcript of her first deposition below.

Inter alia Fischman reveals that Nicole spoke with her about having a threesome with Ron Goldman and Faye Resnick even though Nicole admitted that she was not attracted to Ron. Cora says that Nicole and Faye Resnick were freebasing cocaine and 'soliciting' men in nightclubs which made Cora worried for her safety. Cora also reveals that Nicole's friends abandoned her (Cora) after the murders because Cora did not believe that OJ killed Nicole and Ron Goldman and refused to denounce him. Cora seems to have especially disliked Faye, and you get the impression from the deposition that Faye was a malign influence in the last months of Nicole's life.

R322 than OJ did well. He was cleared of murder charges and lived 30 years longer than his victims.

R325, I am talking about my great grands lived through. I am 48. My grandparents and their siblings were born between 1915 and 1930. So there were definitely around during the height of lynchings in the south. It's a world they would have grown up in and known about since it was going on since 1880/90. And the terror in the black community of it possibly happening lived well on past the 1950s. I remember the fear of it existing in the south when I would visit as a kid in the 70s/early 80s. And who are we kidding, black people were getting dragged behind pickup trucks, and run off the road and shot just a couple of years ago. So the fear was definitely strong after the 50s. So when you grow up knowing that you could be summarily killed by a mob of white people, and aware of the images below, you tend to grow up not liking them, not trusting them.

Interestingly enough - Guilty or not, as horrific as Nicole Brown and Ron Goldman's deaths were, this is the reason black people, amongst their white friends, quietly celebrated the Not Guilty verdict. It wasn't just because OJ was black. It wasn't just because OJ was found not guilty. It was mostly because it was the FIRST time in the history of the United States where a black man was found not guilty for killing a white woman after a hundred years of thousands of black men being killed for just looking at, talking to, talking back to, falsely accused of rape and other atrocities by white women. Even if he was dead guilty, it felt in a weird way - Fair.

All of those Vietnamse pussies getting smashed by Mark Furhmans big blonde dick. They must've thought it was heaven in that moment.

Hey r331 tl;dr.

Whatevs bro

Was Ron a stud?

R333 you see two well composed paragraphs as too long to read?

I pity you.

"quietly celebrated"?

What we’re coming up against is the same old igny— the Americans who refuse to believe our history with racism.

It’s hilarious to listen to posters here try to challenge that fucking lynchings happened. Look up the work of Brian Stephenson, you might be interested in exploring the National Memorial for Peace and Justice. Goddamn, you are the reason we can’t face our past as a nation. Accept it!!! Lunchings were prevalent and I would argue that the proto-lynchings began with runaway slaves before we even had a Declaration of Independence. Of course, most of those killings weren’t recorded formally, so we can never know the full death toll from beginning to end based solely on skin color. But we have posters here trying to parse which decades, how frequent, trying to troll a poster about their age because their story couldn’t possibly be true, no living black person has *any* knowledge through oral family history on lynchings.

Meanwhile, Bryan Stephenson continues to mark every known lynching site across our country through his mission. But yeah, the lynchings sound so exaggerated, said no one ever!!!!!!!! GTFOHMF!!!!

I posted the Tuskegee Institute statistics and it was NOT to "challenge that fucking lynchings happened." And I specifically posted research by a Historically Black College. I posted them because I was surprised by the dates. R337 you assume many people are adversaries but some are not. Probing statements about history made in a discussion or debate is not a complete refutation of a person or their argument. You probably could have gained rhetorical clarity with some debate training in high school or college.

OJ himself was racist against blacks. Would they have been cheering for his acquittal had they known that fact?

R274, why was he shady and what was wrong with them getting together romantically? She was separated from and divorcing OJ. He was a waiter with a business plan to open his own restaurant well loved by a large group of friends and family. “Shady people get murdered too” … moron!

Her pussy saw more dick than an airport urinal.

I love how R339 thinks he is informing the Black Community about one of their own. OF COURSE the black community knew OJ's feelings about being black. He left his black wife as soon as he became really successful and married a white woman. Obviously this didn't go unnoticed by black people and was talked about in the community for years. It was well know. And when the murders first happened, one of the first things the black community said was "Welcome back to being black in America OJ." Even with all of that, we still quietly celebrated. Because we know that white people don't differentiate between us. Black is black. It's like how the old racist joke goes, "What do you call a black man with three Ph.Ds? A ni***r." So his not guilty verdict was still seen as a vindication.

To think the whole mystery could have been solved with a ring camera.

That condo was pretty secluded. I wonder why Nicole didn't move into a residential building with a lobby and security.

What if his son was with him?

Just stop with this "quietly celebrated" bullshit.

Ron Goldman on MTV's Studs, 1992.

Ron on STUDS…

We were happy R346. But I did say “amongst white friends” we quietly celebrated. I was in class in college the day the verdict was read. We took a break to listen to the verdict. When it was read I jumped for joy inside. But I had to keep my cool as my white classmates held themselves and cried.

I think black people say he was not guilty because that’s easier to process than not caring if he was.

And after thirty years now we slyly look at each other and say, “You know he did it,” like we’re sharing some dark secret.

And when I say we didn’t care if he was guilty doesn’t mean we weren’t affected by the brutality of the murders, the loss of life. It just means the need for a Not Guilty verdict and what it would mean to us, the vindication, after the history of atrocities in America, was that much more important. That may not be just, given the circumstances, but it’s definitely human.

[quote]It just means the need for a Not Guilty verdict and what it would mean to us, the vindication, after the history of atrocities in America,

Did the verdict provide vindication to blacks for the history of atrocities in America? Then why are they still yammering on about reparations 29 years later?

^Racist.

[quote]Then why are they still yammering on about reparations 29 years later?

The same way you fags whine about cakes and bakeries, because in the end, you’re still considered a second class citizen.

Are you that dumb R352? There is a big difference between something and everything. We got something, but it was hardly everything.

The whole race retaliation thing is idiotic. The cycle needs to stop being perpetuated. Racist cops and murders, should be punished. Race should not increase or decrease a sentence. Everyone should get the same fair justice. Laws should be equitable and enforced fairly and targeting of classes of people should not happen. Fairness and equality should reign.

It ought to be that anyone, anywhere inside the US should get a fair, unbiased trial and the sentencing should not be any different based on your race.

That's the ideal, R356. Unfortunately, we don't live in that world.

If you want to know the truth about the trial, watch the Court TV docuseries OJ25.

Denise Pilnak was a neighbor of Nicole’s. Her telephone bill shows she was on the phone from 10:25 PM and 10:28 PM. Prior to making this phone call, she and her friend noted how quiet the neighborhood was. Several minutes later between 10:33 and 10:35 PM, she testified that’s when she began to hear the sound of a barking dog, which is likely when the murders began. Allan Park testified to seeing OJ near the front door of the Rockingham estate at 10:55 PM, and his telephone records also document that. That leaves less than 25 minutes to commit the murders, drive back home, get rid of the evidence, etc.

Both Nicole and Ron had defensive wounds. Ron in particular was in hand to hand combat with whoever killed him, yet OJ had no injuries. The cut on his finger wasn’t seen by anyone who interacted with him at the airport, on the airplane ride to Chicago, nor when he immediately landed in Chicago. This includes people who got autographs from him, shook hands with him, and observed his hands. A broken glass was also found in his hotel room and it was documented he asked for a bandage at the hotel.

The FBI searched all of OJ’s and Nicole's credit card records and there was never any receipt found belonging to either of them that showed a purchase of Bruno Magli shoes. Every store that sold the shoes in the country was also searched, and they couldn't find anyone who sold him the shoes. The only proof of him owning them are the National Enquirer photos, which show him wearing suede shoes on a very rainy day. It was also found that the shoe soles that were said to be OJ's footprint were actually more popular than the prosecution maintained, the manufacturer sold the pattern to numerous shoe lines.

1.5 millimeters of OJ’s blood went missing from its vial. Thanos Peratis, the nurse who withdrew his blood, initially testified that he withdrew 8 millimeters. He took that back when only 6.5 appeared and the prosecution suggested he was mistaken. About a decade later he admitted to William Dear that he was certain he withdrew 8 millimeters because it was the amount he had drawn from patients all of his career, but he was close to retirement and had health problems so he didn’t want to cause any trouble.

The glove found at Bundy contained none of OJ’s DNA. The other glove found at Rockingham only contained his DNA in the area where Collin Yamauchi testified to spilling OJ's reference blood sample while handling it.

An identical knit cap matching the knit cap found lying on the ground next to one of the gloves was found in Nicole’s house. Those caps likely belonged to Sydney and Justin Simpson.

Two different people, John Meraz and William Blasini, encountered the Bronco at the lot where it had been impounded days after the murders. They both looked inside it for blood and testified they saw none. There was also only 1/8th of one drop of blood ever found inside it.

New York Times best selling author and journalist Stephen Singular was connected by an anonymous source within the LAPD about the case a few weeks after the murders. He was told Mark Fuhrman made an undocumented trip to Rockingham in the early morning hours after the murders looking for evidence that would incriminate OJ. Rosa Lopez, a housekeeper for OJ’s next door neighbor, testified to hearing men’s voices coming from the yard of Rockingham in the early morning.

The source told Singular that Fuhrman used a broken piece of fence from Bundy to pick up one of the two gloves found and placed it in a blue plastic bag. Next, he was told Fuhrman removed the glove from the plastic bag and planted it at Rockingham. A broken piece of fence was eventually found at Bundy and a blue plastic bag was found at Rockingham, and both were introduced as evidence in the trial.

He was also told EDTA would be found in some of the blood evidence if tested, lab technicians had mishandled OJ’s blood samples, vials of OJ’s, Nicole’s, and Ron's blood were in possession of an LAPD detective for several hours before being booked into evidence, and that Fuhrman had been acquainted with Nicole in some way.

Singular relayed this information from the source to the defense team and was in communication with them for awhile. Pretty much all of it checked out, including an investigation conducted by the LAPD's Internal Affairs Division which revealed that Fuhrman was overheard by other LAPD officers bragging about being intimate with Nicole and seeing her boob job before she was murdered.

Brett Cantor ran a nightclub called The Dragonfly where Ron worked for him as a waiter/promoter. Nicole was also a regular at the club. He was murdered a year before them in almost exactly the same way, by being stabbed repeatedly in the upper body and being nearly decapitated. Judge Ito ruled the defense team could review his case. His murder remains unsolved.

Casimir Sucharski, a friend of OJ's, was murdered alongside two female companions in his house in Florida by people with machine guns two weeks after Ron and Nicole were murdered.

Michael Nigg was friends with Ron and also worked at the Mezzaluna restaurant. He was murdered a year later in 1995 by being shot in the head after refusing to give his money to two men outside an ATM. The men who shot him didn't end up taking his money. His murder remains unsolved.

Not saying these murders are necessarily related to each other but it does make you wonder since all of these people reportedly led similar lifestyles which involved the use of cocaine. Faye Resnick, a cocaine addict, was also living with Nicole just days before the murders.

Video footage of OJ after the dance recital shows him in a good mood. Christian Reichardt also spoke with him on the phone an hour before the murders and testified his demeanor was jovial and not indicative of a simmering murderous rage.

His telephone records also show he made phone calls trying to set up dates with a few models, one of which he told he was unattached to anyone. If he was in a jealous rage over Nicole, why was he trying to date other women?

Another thing is Sydney was supposed to have a sleepover that night with one of her friends who ate dinner at the Mezzaluna restaurant with her and the Brown’s. OJ had been aware of this. That he would choose this day of all days to commit a murder, especially considering he also had a flight to catch, doesn’t make sense.

**This info is rarely included in most of the popular documentaries, TV shows, podcasts, books, etc. but almost all of it came out during the trial and can be verified.

Donald Freed interview about the OJ Simpson murder case (1996)

Alternative theory of the Nicole Brown Simpson & Ron Goldman murders | Mezzaluna + Drugs

R359 A grown man the size of OJ and his young kids don't wear the same size cap.

R361 So what was the point of the Bronco chase?

Animated presentation of the killings from 4.20.

R359 wrong on shoes and blood.

Ron Goldman was not involved in drugs. OJ Simpson killed him and Nicole

I still don't think he did. I kinda never did. It just didn't make sense that he would kill the mother of his children at the home where his kids were staying, AND leave her body there for them to discover. And people seem to drift between pre-meditated and rage. You can't have both. You can have he planned to kill Nicole with the little time he had left before his flights AND he flew into rage. That makes no sense.

[quote] And people seem to drift between pre-meditated and rage. You can't have both. You can have he planned to kill Nicole with the little time he had left before his flights AND he flew into rage. That makes no sense.

He had a long history of rage toward Nicole. The prosecution thought his rage had built up a lot after she left him and the final blow was when she ignored him at their daughter's recital and then didn't invite him to dinner with her family, showing she was finally over him for good...leaving him very angry and indignant at the rejection. (Faye Resnick wrote in her book that Nicole was angry that OJ had threatened to report her to the IRS for something regarding taxes on a condo she owned up north which was her only security for future income, signaling that he was going to try to ruin her financially. She realized he didn't even care about their kids and she was very upset and that's why she ignored him at the recital). Later that night, he put on black clothes and a ski cap and took a knife to her house with the intention of killing her. The premeditation is obvious by the knife and dark clothes and the rage is pretty obvious by the brutality of the murders.

Read the telling of your own story r370. Do you realize the massive leap between wanting to ruin someone financially by reporting them to the IRS AND deciding to take a knife to slaughter them? Rage does not play into premeditation. A hot head does not map out his violence. It explodes. Now if OJ had gone over there to confront her and they got into a fight and he choked her to death, that is more plausible. But a man his size, who sadly was used to abusing his wife with his bare hands, is most likely not going to plan out a murder on using a knife against her when he knows full well his own strength can take her out. The ONLY plausible thing I have heard, if it was indeed him that killed her, was that he was going over there with a knife to slash her tires and then his rage exploded when caught / confronted by her.

[quote]A hot head does not map out his violence.

Oh, he/she most certainly does!

R371, He was enraged with her off and on for years during their marriage. He reached a breaking point when she ignored him and signaled that she was finally finished with him forever. He was an extremely controlling guy and an extremely angry husband/ex-husband and his anger finally escalated to a murderous level. You really believe OJ Simpson was simply going to slash her tires before he left on a business trip? The man who had beaten her many times throughout their marriage and threatened her many times after their divorce? No offense, but that sounds very naive.

Also R371:

[quote]The ONLY plausible thing I have heard, if it was indeed him that killed her, was that he was going over there with a knife to slash her tires and then his rage exploded when caught / confronted by her.

Doubt anyone goes from "I'm going to slash her tires to teach her a lesson" to brutally murdering her when she asks what he's doing.

^ Meant to sign that R370 / R373

What I am saying R373 is a man who routinely beats his wife with his bare hands their entire relationship is not all of a sudden going to switch it up and use weapons. It's a completely different mindset. Someone brings a weapon when they are thinking they will need help overpowering their victim. He knows he can dominate her with his bare hands, he would choke her to death WITH the gloves on that they found. The tire slashing was the only excuse I can see as to why he would bring a knife. Otherwise if he intended to kill her, needing a knife would not have crossed his mind. It's like someone choosing to bring a gun to kill a baby when you know you can just smother them or hold them down in water. That's an extremely violent comparison, but you get the idea.

And where would he be intending to butcher her? In her bedroom, inside the house where his kids were? He would have had no idea she would be out front. Why did she come out front? His intention would be to get inside somehow and kill her. Do you think he really planned to stab her in the stairs of the condo? And if your intention was to draw her out to the front of the condo and stab her, do you think he would really dress in a threatening way that might make her call the police when seeing him? He would have dressed normal.

Or IF he dressed in all black, to lay in wait for her to ambush her in the driveway as some would say, would he do it on a night where he had a flight? If an ambush was his plan, there is no telling how long he would have to wait. Mixed with everything r360 and on said, there ARE still a lot of questions that don't add up. You can't just say "he beat her, he was jealous of her, therefore he killed her."

[quote]Doubt anyone goes from "I'm going to slash her tires to teach her a lesson" to brutally murdering her when she asks what he's doing.

R373 if the person is a hot head like everyone is saying OJ was, that scenario makes a lot more sense, more plausible that a verbal confrontation with him standing there with a knife would escalate to murder. And it would make more sense for him to be dressed the way he was if slashing her ties (something he could do in his mind with the time he had) was the intention. He wouldn't want to be seen doing it. And maybe in his fucked up mind he could feel "innocent" of the murders because it was never his intent to kill anyone but she made him do it. That line of reasoning makes a lot more sense.

And if OJ was possessive as everyone says he ways, then the idea of Ron driving around in his wife's car that she bought with his money would drive him crazy too. So I could totally see his intention being going over there to slash the tires to put the car out of commission. And slashing the tires on a very expensive car is one step closer to financial ruin for someone - which you would know if you ever had to replace tires on a car like that.

Her car was parked in the back parking lot of her condo, and there's no testimony that she was anywhere near there. She was starting bathwater and waiting to get her mom's glasses from her waiter friend who would arrive at her front door.. So, if OJ was only there to slash her tires, why didn't he do it and then leave?

I am not sure how deep the walkway was, but if you were Ron Goldman and came across a man violently dispatching with his wife with a knife, one of the last things you would do is run up and try to save her, seeing already that she is probably gone. You'd be in shock, drop your shit and run. And if he arrived just before, that means OJ would have had to fight them both and there would be a loud violent altercation that people would have heard as well as the dog. There would be shouts and screams.

This leads me to believe that Ron was actually the target and was followed. The murderer might have thought Ron lived there and was on his way home and wanted to kill him before he got inside. He was probably killed first and the murderer probably saw Nicole arriving before she knew what was going on and surprised her from behind covering her mouth and slitting her throat and stabbing her repeatedly. Considering that another acquaintances of Ron's was killed in a very similar way, this isn't out of the question either - that something was going that no one knew about or followed up on because they had OJ, the obvious killer.

[quote]Her car was parked in the back parking lot of her condo, and there's no testimony that she was anywhere near there. She was starting bathwater and waiting to get her mom's glasses from her waiter friend who would arrive at her front door.. So, if OJ was only there to slash her tires, why didn't he do it and then leave?

Then he didn't do it. Because there is no reason he would bring a knife on the off chance he could kill his wife in her driveway in the time he had left before a flight. If you are setting out to murder someone, you don't do it unless you are 100% absolutely certain of their movements in the time that you have. There were too many unknowns on OJ's part going into it that he would actually even run into her. And OJ is egotistical enough to write a book, "IF I Did It" to describe to the world how he would commit a murder, probably in a better more efficient way in his mind than the way in which they were murdered.

[quote]I still don't think he did. I kinda never did. It just didn't make sense that he would kill the mother of his children at the home where his kids were staying, AND leave her body there for them to discover.

Some of you, I swear. This is EXACTLY the MO of domestic abusers. If he really, truly cared about his kids, he wouldn't have been beating the shit out of their mother for YEARS.

That's not true R380. Domestic violence is a very demented, perverted idea of love and power dynamic. There are actually some women who believe their man doesn't love them unless he hits her. Don't flame me, but that is very true, as twisted as it is. A domestic violent abuser is a bully of the entire house. He might even shoot his wife in front of their kids in a rage. But he is not going to leave a dead body for his kids to discover. And an abuser WANTS people to know they took a life, that they had the power to do it, and if the kids saw it, now they know too. It's all about them and the power they have over everyone else's lives. They aren't going to leave it for other people to discover and not get credit for it.

OJ beat his wife with his hands AND owned guns. Murder is murder, but killing someone with a knife is not something you plan on doing unless you've done it before and know you can do it. It is nothing something you just decide to do because it's extremely violent and can be extremely messy. Ron and Nicole were killed by someone who had killed people with a knife before. If I knew I could kill my wife with my hands or with any number of guns that I owned, why would I plan to kill her with a knife, something extremely violent and imprecise? If I had half an hour to kill someone, picking the most inefficient way to do it would not be my first choice. If I can buy a knife, I could buy a silencer and kill the person from a distance without them ever seeing me and not getting a single drop of DNA evidence on me - especially if the gun is unregistered.

[quote]I am not sure how deep the walkway was, but if you were Ron Goldman and came across a man violently dispatching with his wife with a knife, one of the last things you would do is run up and try to save her, seeing already that she is probably gone. You'd be in shock, drop your shit and run. And if he arrived just before, that means OJ would have had to fight them both and there would be a loud violent altercation that people would have heard as well as the dog. There would be shouts and screams.

I put this on the other thread, but I'll post it here so you can read the prosecution's theory, based on expert witnesses, of what Ron Goldman went through, and when and how OJ confronted him:

MARCIA CLARK: [to judge and jury] All right. You see the envelope [with the eyeglasses], and it's just inside the gate. Now, you remember because you were there how small that area is, that caged area in- at Bundy. Very, very, very tight. And that envelope is virtually- with one step in the gate, it dropped. And we have blood drippings on the envelope that indicate that it was dropped and then Ron bled, dripping onto that envelope. That indicates surprise.

Those keys were dropped, and they were dropped right inside the gate, and I'll show you the photograph of where they were found. See the keys right by the gate? Now, those are a little bit- If this is the gate right here, if you step inside, it's just a little bit down to my right as I'm gesturing. But again, they're right inside the gate. They're right inside, dropped. Ron is taken by surprise.

The fact that Ron struggled is clear, but what is also obvious is that someone who gets stabbed and is flailing about can get blood all over the place as he's struggling to back away from his attacker. And that happens very quickly.

You can imagine in your mind's eye - somebody just flailing, flailing about, trying to get away from their attacker, a big person with a knife in a very, very dark area, very confined space. He hasn't very far to go, ladies and gentlemen. He's got only a few feet to move. And he's backed into a corner - Where's he going to go?

He flails backwards, trying to avoid his attacker. The number of the contacts that you see, the bloody contacts on the fence, are made at once as he's flailing. And that's what you see on that fence. You see a young man bleeding, backing and falling, vainly trying to get away from the defendant who has him cornered in a cage and is coming at him with a very long knife.

Now I'm going to talk in a little more detail about how one person could do it - how. Dr. Lakshmanan spoke of the fact that Nicole suffered only two defensive wounds - one to the back of her left hand, and I think there was one to the right of her palm. She struggled very little. As Dr. Lakshmanan told you, she was `rapidly incapacitated.' She was disabled very quickly. There were stab wounds to the back of her head that indicated movement, perhaps as she tried to run, stabbing her in the back of the head. An abrasion to the right eyebrow indicates that she was pushed or fell into a hard surface, such as the wall or the stairs. She was stabbed in the left side of the neck four times. There was some movement shown on her part with respect to at least one of those stab wounds in the left side of her neck, which indicates there was still some effort at resistance.

(con't) Ron was attacked with the defendant behind him. That much is clear. The wounds inflicted to the neck, those control wounds - and I'll talk a little bit more about that and some of the other stab wounds. And Ron struggles. Unlike Nicole, he's not so easily put down. He struggles, and he grabs. The defendant, who's holding him from around the neck with his left hand and holding the knife in his right- Ron is struggling, and he's grabbing at anything he can, and he's grabbing at the hand that's holding him, and that's how the glove comes off. And, by the way, that's why the right glove doesn't come off because the right glove, the right hand is holding the knife, holding the glove in place. But from the point forward- From that point forward, after the defendant first attacked him, Ron's death was not a matter of `if.' It was just a matter of `when,' and Ron was totally on the defensive from the start, trying to ward off the knife and to back away, and in the process hitting the fence, the trees, and everything around him in a desperate effort to survive.

And all of this had to have happened very quickly. I say this as a matter of common sense. It didn't take Ron Goldman and Nicole Brown more than a few minutes to be overcome and slashed to death. And that's not really surprising. Think about it. A boxing match - each round is, what, three minutes. And this is with men that are both prepared, ready to do battle, in good condition, who are not taken by surprise, who are prepared to do battle. And we know knock-outs occur in the very first round. They certainly happen within a minute. And that's with trained professionals. Same thing with martial arts matches - very quick.

All right. Next question. Why did he leave the cap and glove? This one's probably very easy. It was late. He had to catch a flight. This took longer than expected. Ron Goldman was not expected at this scene. He was not supposed to be there, but it is only because of him, because of the struggle that he put up, that we have the cap, we have the glove, and we have all this evidence - Ron's shirt, the blood. Because of the struggle with Ron, we have all of this evidence.

[quote]OJ beat his wife with his hands AND owned guns. Murder is murder, but killing someone with a knife is not something you plan on doing unless you've done it before and know you can do it. It is nothing something you just decide to do because it's extremely violent and can be extremely messy.

Faye Resnick wrote in her book that Nicole had said her biggest fear was being stabbed to death. She mentioned it enough that OJ teased her about it on at least one occasion. Who knows how someone like him thinks, but maybe he sadistically chose this method because of that.

R385, what keys were dropped? Were they keys to Nicole's gate? If so, why would Ron have keys to her place? If they weren't keys to Nicole's gate, why would he have keys out?

The scenario described above could also describe Ron getting attacked first by someone who was following him and wanted to kill him before he got inside his house, waiting for the most opportune time to take him out, out of view of the street. And Nicole's wounds could be described as someone coming upon this scene and trying to run up into her house to get away but was overtaken.

The keys and the envelope would be the FIRST thing dropped, not the last things dropped. So if they were right inside the gate, that means Ron was attacked right at the entrance and NOT trying to get back outside of the gate. His wounds were from behind too. And for them to be from OJ from behind, he would have had to be headed towards the gate from the condo and NOT from the gate to the condo. Right?

They were Ron Goldman's keys.

R385 you mean the morally corrupt Faye Resnick who was looking to cash in on anything should could from the murders? How convenient that Nicole revealed this juicy tidbit that fits right into an already established narrative. Of all the ways you can die, do you think you would actually say my biggest fear is to be stabbed to death? Not drowning, falling, run over, burned alive? But now, I am terrified of being stabbed to death? Who says that? Faye might as well have added her biggest fear was being stabbed to death by a big black man.

Okay, I didn't realize I was talking to a conspiracy theorist.

That's a wrap.

To be a conspiracy theorist there has to be a conspiracy. There is no conspiracy here. I am just saying look at the "Cold Hard Facts" everyone is presenting and they don't add up. That's all. At least they don't add up to a slam dunk. And maybe that is why the prosecution had such trouble presenting their case. It wasn't a slam dunk. And my shots in the dark at a possible theory of something else happening are just as valid as your shots and the dark - only with the facts you have so far presented proving my theory more so than yours.

The only "shot in the dark" theory I offered was in trying to guess the answer to your question as to why OJ chose to use a knife. Everything else I've written is backed up with evidence from the trial.

I didn't even know about the series of events as described by the prosecution. BUT what they presented would described someone being attacked as soon as they entered the gate from behind - dropped keys, dropped envelope. If OJ was in the process of murdering his wife, Ron would have heard it in such tight quarters, even seen it before entering, and most likely would have not entered. Which leads me to believe he was attacked first, from behind, dropping the keys and the envelope fighting for his life with Nicole coming down to see it and trying to get away but being overcome and attacked from behind herself.

And according to you R391, why would OJ use a knife?

I don't think he meant to go that far. I wonder if he lost control and instantly regretted it. He seems bewildered in If I did it:

Nicole came at me, swinging. "Get the fuck out of here!" she said. "This is my house and I can do what I want!"

"Not in front of my kids, you can't!"

"Fuck you!"

"No, fuck you. I gave you everything you could ask for, and you fucked it all up."

She came at me like a banshee, all arms and legs, flailing, and I ducked and she lost her balance and fell against the stoop. She fell hard on her right side—I could hear the back of her head hitting the ground—and lay there for a moment, not moving. "Jesus Christ, O.J., let's get the fuck out of here!" Charlie said, his voice cracking. I looked over at Goldman, and I was fuming. I guess he thought I was going to hit him, because he got into his little karate stance. "What the fuck is that?" I said. "You think you can take me with your karate shit?" He started circling me, bobbing and weaving, and if I hadn't been so fucking angry I would have laughed in his face. "O.J., come on!" It was Charlie again, pleading.

Nicole moaned, regaining consciousness. She stirred on the ground and opened her eyes and looked at me, but it didn't seem like anything was registering. Charlie walked over and planted himself in front of me blocking my view. "We are fucking done here, man—let's go!" noticed the knife in Charlie's hand, and in one deft move I removed my right glove and snatched it up. "We're not going anywhere," I said, turning to face Goldman. Goldman was still circling me, bobbing and weaving, but I didn't feel like laughing anymore.

"You think you're tough, motherfucker?" I said.

I could hear Charlie just behind me, saying something, urging me to get the fuck out of there, and at one point he even reached for me and tried to drag me away, but I shook him off, hard, and moved toward Goldman. "Okay, motherfucker!" I said. "Show me how tough you are!"

Then something went horribly wrong, and I know what happened, but I can't tell you exactly how. I was still standing in Nicole's courtyard, of course, but for a few moments I couldn't remember how I'd gotten there, when I'd arrived, or even why I was there. Then it came back to me, very slowly: The recital—with little Sydney up on stage, dancing her little heart out; me, chipping balls into my neighbor's yard; Paula, angry, not answering her phone; Charlie, stopping by the house to tell me some more ugly shit about Nicole's behavior. Then what? The short, quick drive from Rockingham to the Bundy condo. And now? Now I was standing in Nicole's courtyard, in the dark, listening to the loud, rhythmic, accelerated beating of my own heart. I put my left hand to my heart and my shirt felt strangely wet. I looked down at myself. For several moments, I couldn't get my mind around what I was seeing. The whole front of me was covered in blood, but it didn't compute. Is this really blood?

I wondered. And whose blood is it? Is it mine? Am I hurt?

r389 the "OJ is innocent" troll is one of the most irksome posters on DL.

[quote]"OJ is innocent" troll is one of the most irksome posters on DL.

I don't agree. Even though I think he did it in a fit of rage, I think the OJ is innocent person points out some scenarios that could lead to reasonable doubt.

This is my first go at it R395. So you have me confused with someone else. But from the description of the events given by the prosecution, I am even more convinced of my theory that it was some ambush where Ron was attacked first, that he was the target. Of course the defence doesn't have to prove someone else did it, they just have to prove their client didn't do it.

I just know in a world of coke heads, which Nicole, Kris and Faye were definitely a part of, tons of horrible things can go wrong. Were Nicole and Kris both recently divorced too, living it up?

[quote]I just know in a world of coke heads, which Nicole, Kris and Faye were definitely a part of, tons of horrible things can go wrong.

In a world with a serial abuser, horrible things can (and did) happen.

And why are you calling a brutally murdered woman a coke head? There was no evidence that she abused drugs. (OJ did cocaine yet you aren't calling him names.)

R397 the defense didn’t need to prove anything—that’s not how it works.

So after all of these years, it would be a very different take on what actually happened - That Nicole was actually the innocent bystander, the unfortunate witness to a murder who became a victim. I can see the murder stalking Ron as his target waiting for him to get home. He attacks him from behind right inside the gate. As Ron looses his fight for his life just as Nicole comes down to see what is happening. The murder see's her saying shit, there is someone else here. He probably thought it was his girlfriend or something and attacks her from behind as she tries to run back up her steps and he kills her completely unaware that there are kids upstairs.

R398, they ALL did coke. OJ, Kris, Nicole, Faye, Bruce. And it's my belief that Ron was Nicole's plug. That doesn't necessarily mean he was a dealer, but he knew where to get good stuff.

Yeah, yeah. I didn't want to believe the funny guy from Naked Gun could do it, but all the evidence says otherwise.

Had the trial happened today I think more people would trust the blood evidence.

[quote]If OJ was in the process of murdering his wife, Ron would have heard it in such tight quarters, even seen it before entering, and most likely would have not entered.

A lot of men would try to help someone in distress, especially a friend.

R399, That is EXACTLY what I said. You are just reiterating exactly what I said. I know how it works, that's why I said it in the first place.

Dumbshit quote: “…they just have to prove their client didn't do it.”

That’s what you wrote—you’re an idiot.

R402 if that were indeed the case, there would have been shouting and screaming and the sounds of a physical altercation. But all people heard was a barking dog. Which leads me to believe both were killed by surprised, attacked before they could get out more than a gasp of shock. Someone would have at least heard a STOP, or a NO, or at least a scream of HELP ME. I lived in NYC and have heard terrifying screams of HELP ME having no idea where it's coming from. Neighbors hear things when someone is being murdered if their is a drawn out altercation.

All the defense needs to get to is reasonable doubt. Real court cases aren't like TV shows, no one makes a dramatic confession and the real killer is unmasked. All a defense team has to really do is poke holes in the prosecution's case by any means necessary.

You're right R404, my mistake. The burden of Proof is on the Prosecution, not the defense. The defense just has to defend their client against the evidence given. I guess that can be seen as proof in a way. But in this case, the defense doesn't have to prove that Ron might have been involved in something that might have lead to his and Nicoles demise. And the prosecution, pursuing OJ, certainly would not have brought it up. So the fact that there may have been another reason for the murders other than OJ's rage would not have been presented in court.

We all know that …except for the imbecile at R403

Nicole was quickly incapacitated. OJ was in back of Ron stabbing him to death in the dark. It all happened quickly. No time or wherewithal for screaming.

But think of it r409, If Ron is being stabbed from the back, that means he would have to be trying to exit the gate, correct, not entering it. The initial blow that would cause him to drop the envelope and keys immediately would come from the front IF he was walking up toward OJ. But the initial blow came from behind, at the entrance of the gate cause him to drop what he had in his. If OJ was waiting to attack him from behind because he heard him coming the keys and the envelope would be future inside of the little courtyard. It would seem.

The way the prosecution actually paints it, I looks like Ron was attacked right at the entrance of the gate from behind. That means the person would be coming from the street, from behind attacking him, not already inside the confines of the condos gate coming down towards him.

R405 that's not all they heard.

R412 I was thinking of him. Couldn't remember his name.

Yes, he was a witness for the Defense, initially, testifying to the time that he heard the slamming of a gate at a time that the defense used to prove it could not have been OJ, given the time frame. Then he went on to testify to something different in the Civil Case. But initially the time frame he gave in the criminal trial backed up evidence that it could not be OJ in that particular time frame. But he wasn't exactly a neighbor close by. He was someone who lived in the neighborhood walking his dogs a street over from when the actual murders were taking place. Anyway, I am not trying to retry this case that has been retried a million times in court of public opinion for thirty years now. I just found the resurgence of all of the information after OJ's death interesting in the fact that something that has been seen as a great miscarriage of justice might not have been exactly that after all. People are so convinced he did it, when it isn't exactly the slam dunk of information as we all thought in the beginning.

I don't think he established the right time. He walked the dog around 10. Did he have a watch? He was eyeballing it.

Well the fact that the only person who heard anything was a man walking his dog on a completely different street, one over, from where the murders took place is problematic in the first place. There are a handful of condos around Nicole's with more than an handful of residents. And on a quiet night THE ONLY person who heard anything was a man walking his dog who heard men arguing, a street over. If he could hear them from there, it would seem there would be plenty of others. I would imagine in this neighborhood, the voices of men arguing in the night would have caught the attention of residents right there.

My mother lived with a control freak batterer, after my father died. She is lucky she survived. She went to the hospital twice, once with life threatening injuries. When Nicole was hiding in the bushes and raced towards the cops screaming "He's going to kill me" and he had the baseball bat smashing in the windows of the car, what the fuck did you think he meant to do? That car was a surrogate for Nicole. And if he had been worked up enough he would have used it on her. O.J. fit the classic profile of the batterer/killer. Go do some reading on the subject. We learned that the most dangerous time in the relationship is when you separate and divorce. The beater has to have the last word. Figuratively speaking. One time he went to my mother's job with a gun, and her boss, who was familiar with the situation, had someone take her out the back way and put her on a bus to anywhere for a couple hours while the police came and picked him up. The worst time was when he hit her with a baseball bat and she fell down the stairs, and he set the house on fire. I was 13. This shit happened. He went to prison for attempted murder. He's out now, and lives in a rural are somewhere. My mother is old and she has a permanent disability caused by his assaults. So fuck the hell off telling me how it just doesn't seem possible that O.J. would do that. Of course he would! He was sending us messages every time he beat her. Every time she called the cops, every time she had to put photos in a safe deposit box to make sure people knew. He was a monster. We could spend a life time analyzing the "why would he do that" bullshit. But the fact remains he killed her and he killed the poor guy who was in t he wrong place/wrong time. His blood was present at the crime scene, the victims' blood was present at his house and in his car. He did it. Fuck alternative theories.

R417, here. It is possible to be filled with killing rage and be premeditated. He was certain he'd never get charged. He had a fucking alibi. He was "in Chicago." He went out for burgers with Kato before he went home to pack. He was all set. He never planned on Ron Goldman. Ron fought him, he lost the glove and the knit cap. He sliced his hand on the his knife that was slick with blood. He was pumped with adrenalin and possibly something else. He might have even believed the kids weren't there, they were with Juditha Brown. He was obsessed with Nicole, stalked her, watched her with other guys when he could. This was a sick motherfucker.

If this happened today, OJ's Bronco would be caught on multiple traffic light cameras, Ring cameras, etc. going to and from Nicole's condo. He wouldn't have a chance in hell of not getting convicted.

Wasn't there a witness who was testifying about the time period, as seen on her watch, then she was late to court and when asked why, it was because her watch had stopped?

Also wasn't there a witness - maybe Heidstra - who said he heard a black voice, and Marcia Clark challenged him on what a black voice sounds like?

OJ told us how the murders happened in his book.

He could be a psycho, revenge-obsessed, stalking batterer- and still not be at Nicole's condo that night. Whether he hired it done; it was an unrelated hit job; a frame job; or just a random crime- we will never know what went down that night. But I still can't imagine a blood-soaked OJ jumping back in his vehicle, rushing home, cleaning the car out, showering, dining with Kato and hopping on a plane.

🙄

Stop already. A ghostwriter had to draft his confession—that’s how delusional, and guilty, he was.

It's really sad that OJ died before his search for the true killers, which he'd announced on the day of his acquittal, was able to identify who actually did it.

[quote]He could be a psycho, revenge-obsessed, stalking batterer- and still not be at Nicole's condo that night.

But he WAS and he fucking killed her and Ron Goldman you stupid fucking idiot.

R421, it was Cochran who objected when Darden asked Robert Heidstra if one of the voices Heidstra said that he heard that night sounded like the voice of a black man; see the link below for a transcript.

You can also watch Heidstra's testimony at the link.

r417 is all that really needs to be said about this.

[quote]I just know in a world of coke heads, which Nicole, Kris and Faye were definitely a part of, tons of horrible things can go wrong.

The posters who think recreational cocaine users are basically hobnobbing with Pablo Escobar must be very young.

Rich people/celebrities never actually meet their drug dealers. They have an intermediary get the drugs for them. That's what Kato was for.

If Ron Goldman was black, he’d be called a thug or drug dealer by the media.

If Nicole was black, she’d be called a coke whore by the media.

R414 I recommend Brian Heiss’ YouTube channel about the OJ case. Not that it matters but he’s gay and he’s done a great job of really debunking the mainstream media lies and misrepresentations about the evidence.

Why won’t they release the phone records of Nicole Brown Simpson? Her mother initially said she last spoke to Nicole at 11:00 PM, naturally that time was pushed back to fit the prosecution’s timeline because OJ was on the way to Chicago by that time.

To think in today's world a little Ring camera would've proven OJ's guilt.

The coroner who performed the autopsies of Nicole and Ron also said there were two different kinds of stab wounds on the victims, meaning two knives. He wasn’t used in the trial.

Donald Freed, Stephen Singular, Steven Worth discuss the OJ Simpson murder case with Dave Emory 1996

Cora Fischman’s (a friend of Nicole) testimony about Ron and Nicole:

Q: And what she told you is around 9:30 p.m. that she, Faye Resnick, had a telephone call with Nicole on the evening of June 12th. Right? A: Right. Q: And that the two of them, Nicole and Faye, were giggling in this telephone conversation -- A: Yes. Q: -- right? And Nicole at the time was in Bundy and Faye was at the treatment center. Right? A: Right. Q: And then she told you that Nicole said Ron Goldman was coming over to her place? A: Faye told me. Q: Right. That -- A: Yes. Q: -- Nicole told her that Ron Goldman was on his way over to see her, Nicole? A: Right. Q: For what purpose? A: They were giggling that they were gonna do it. Q: That Nicole and Ron Goldman were going to have sex that evening? A: I don't know if it was sex, but they said they were going to do it. Q: What does "do it" mean? What is the "it"? A: Well, if you think sex -- I don't know. I wasn't there. Q: It's not what I think. What did you understand her to mean when she said that to you? A: Well, what Faye told me was exactly what I told you, that they were going to do it that evening. Q: What did you understand that to mean? A: Probably they were going to have a -- they were going to have sex. Q: Okay. And is that all that Faye told you? A: She told me that Nicole was going to see if he's good -- Q: Good at sex? A: Right, if he's good in bed. Then when she comes out of the rehab, that they were gonna do it. Q: Who was going to do it? A: The three of them. Q: And when Faye told you that, did she indicate whether Nicole and she were joking about this or whether they were serious about this? A: At that time I thought they were serious because they already have done it before with another guy, so... Q: Now, you knew, of course, based on what Nicole herself had told you, that she had no sexual interest in Ron Goldman. Right? A: Yes. Q: So I assume -- A: No, she was not attracted to Ron Goldman. Q: So I assume you didn't believe this story that you were being told. A: She told me she was not attracted to Ron Goldman, but, you know -- Q: But what? A: That "Ron keeps on verbally seducing me. I don't know what to do with him." Q: Nicole told you that Ron kept verbally seducing her? A: Right. Q: When did Nicole tell you that? A: Those weeks that Ron was calling him -- calling her. I'm sorry. Q: What did Nicole tell you that Ron was saying to her? A: I don't remember. I mean verbally seducing, you know, like she said, "I can't wait to be with you, both naked," and this and that, and Nicole was getting tickled by what Ron was telling her. Q: Did Nicole tell you that she was changing her attitude towards Ron and that she was considering having a relationship with him? A: No. Q: Okay. So the last you knew is that she had no interest -- she was not attracted to him, as you put it. Right? A: She was not attracted to Nicole -- to Ron, yes. Q: Did Faye tell you anything else about this conversation? A: Faye told me that -- that's pretty much what I told you, that Nicole just kept on wanting to do this, you know, this thing that they just did with Brett, and she wanted to try it out again, and they thought that Ron Goldman would be the next guy that they could try. Q: Faye -- Nicole never mentioned that to you, right, having a threesome with Ron Goldman? A: No, no, no. Q: That all comes from Faye Resnick? A: Faye told me, yes.

R439 I screwed up the copy and paste, but Cora basically testified Nicole was planning to try Ron out that night to see if he was good enough for a threesome. If he was good, Nicole and Faye were planning to have a threesome with Ron after Faye got out of drug rehab.

R414 I appreciate your comments in this thread. There’s a lot more to the case/trial than what the mainstream media says about it.

OJ was guilty AF. Anyone who believes otherwise is a fucking moron.

Not everyone felt the same as you.

I guess maybe black people cheering was less about O.J. and more about the politics of the LAPD at the time, police brutality. A lot of their catharsis was bigger than O.J. I can understand that. But at the end of the day, two people were murdered.

I think most people thought we based our decision on race. Race never came up in the topic of our deliberation, or even how the LAPD treated black people.

Like, regarding Fuhrman, none of his comments really …

The thing with Fuhrman was once his credibility was shot, you really could discount anything he said. He was definitely a liar — he lied on the stand — and when he came back to the court, he took the fifth on everything. Why would you trust anything he said? He was the detective that found all this evidence: the blood on the Bronco, on the back fence, on the glove … all of that created reasonable doubt.

Was there a moment in particular during the trial that really swayed your decision towards reasonable doubt?

Yeah, when they started talking about the blood evidence. There was, like, a milliliter of blood they couldn’t account for. And they found blood on the back fence of Nicole’s condo, and that particular blood also had the additive in there. That additive is only found in [a test tube of blood], so why would the blood sample on that back fence contain that additive unless somebody took the blood from the test tube and placed it there?

Do you think O.J. was framed?

I don’t know if he was necessarily framed. I think O.J. may know something about what happened, but I just don’t think he did it. I think it was more than one person, just because of the way she was killed. I don’t know how he could have just left that bloody scene — because it was bloody — and got back into his Bronco and not have it filled with blood. And then go back home and go in the front door, up the stairs to his bedroom … That carpet was snow white in his house. He should have blood all over him or bruises because Ron Goldman was definitely fighting for his life. He had defensive cuts on his shoes and on his hands.

O.J. only had that little cut on his finger. If [Goldman] was kicking to death, you would think that the killer would have gotten some bruises on his body. They showed us photos of O.J. with just his underwear just two days after, and he had no bruises or anything on his body.

People are too invested in the “black brute” angle in this case to look at it objectively. Ron Goldman fought for his life. He had all kinds of defensive wounds. OJ had no injuries except the cut on his finger. Everyone who interacted with him at the airport and on the flight to Chicago testified to seeing no cuts or bandages on his hands. A broken glass with blood on it was later found in his hotel room in Chicago.

Yeah that happens a lot. Everytime I had a threesome and partied with cokeheads I got stabbed to death on my porch along with one of the sex partners.

It's quite common. You hear about in the news a lot. When people have threesomes, shank shank shank stabbyville. When they buy coke too. Coke dealers love murdering their clients, especially the ones into threesomes.

Interesting doc. It argues the murders were over drugs and carried out by serial killer Glen Rogers.

OJ took Ron from the back and slit his fucking throat you fucking idiot.

White people are still triggered and upset about this case like it’s 1994. They never had the same outrage for Robert Blake who was similarly acquitted of murdering his wife and then found liable for her death in a civil trial.

Inspired by this thread, I started watching "O.J. and Nicole: An American Tragedy" on Max. For some reason (well, because I didn't watch the trial), I never heard that one bloody glove was found at Bundy and its mate was found at Rockingham. Is that not a slam-dunk piece of evidence?

Who the f is Robert Blake?

Stephen Singular: What you don’t know about Mark Fuhrman and the OJ Simpson trial

Nicole Brown Simpson 911 Calls. Complete, Uncensored, Never Before Heard.

The full 911 argument was about drugs and hookers being at the Bundy condo. An ex girlfriend of Keith’s (who was a Heidi Fleiss girl) approached OJ on the set of a movie and told him about all the shit that was going on during their parties.

People really need to check out Brian Heiss’ YouTube channel.

I remember when I was a kid and this trial happened I thought the Goldman's were so harsh on OJ, prejudging him before the facts were out in the trial. I thought they were unfairly laser focused on OJ and the world was still debating his guilt or innocence.

After seeing all the facts as an adult, they were correct.

And watch OJ25 if you want to know the truth about the trial, not OJ: Made in America or The People v. OJ Simpson which both are full of lies and misrepresentations.

What's a "sultry bath?"

The Goldman’s are trash. They denied Trayvon Martin’s murder was racially motivated and supported George Zimmerman’s acquittal, and they went after Sydney and Justin Simpson for money several years ago.

[quote]They never had the same outrage for Robert Blake who was similarly acquitted of murdering his wife and then found liable for her death in a civil trial.

Robert Blake was never on the same level of fame as OJ Simpson.

[quote]not OJ: Made in America or

It is one of the greatest docs ever made. It won the Oscar for Best Documentary.

[quote]OJ told us how the murders happened in his book.

And, from the excerpts posted on another thread, he trashed the victims while describing them, and sees himself as righteous.

Why do the OJ apologists who don't think he did it often degrade Nicole in their posts? I get that certain kinds of people are interested in looking closer at high-profile cases and reading contrarian-type opinions, but why the demeaning attitude toward Nicole, Ron, and Ron's family, i.e., the victims? That indicates something deeper than idle curiosity about facts of a case. It seems like misogyny.

R457 George Zimmerman was a POS. But I don't want to discuss that case. It's too sad and I get disheartened when people can't see the obvious.

OJ is more fun to speculate about.

OJ25 is better. OJ: Made in America just reinforces the black brute narrative, insults the jury’s intelligence, gives genocidal racist Mark Fuhrman a pass, and misrepresents and lies about the trial evidence.

If I Did It was ghostwritten by Pablo Fenjves, a neighbor of Nicole’s. It was Arnelle Simpson’s idea in the first place. She convinced OJ to agree to the book deal so they both, along with his other kids, could make money from it. OJ was broke and needed the money after his trials.

R462 It explained the history of the LAPD and the black community in LA. Interviews with the jurors were eye-opening.

Who did Mark Fuhrman kill?

a neighbor of Nicole’s who testified for the prosecution*

Mark Fuhrman bragged about being intimate with Nicole and seeing her breast job to other officers in the LAPD before she was murdered.

[quote]Attorney Malcolm LaVergne, who represented Simpson from 2009 until the former running back’s death on April 10 after a battle with prostate cancer, said that he wants to walk back statements made last week while speaking by phone with The Hollywood Reporter on Monday afternoon. LaVergne had previously told the Las Vegas Review-Journal that he’d fight to prevent a payout of the $33.5 million judgment awarded to the families of Simpson’s ex-wife, Nicole Brown Simpson, and her friend Ron Goldman; he said he specifically wanted Fred Goldman to receive “zero — nothing” of Simpson’s estate.

[quote]I can tell you in advance, Fred Goldman’s claim will be accepted. And his claim will be handled in accordance with Nevada law,” LaVergne told THR, admitting that his earlier remarks were not in response to Fred Goldman, who has been relentless in his pursuit of justice for his son since the 1997 civil trial verdict, but toward his attorneys.

The thing that mesmerizes me today in the 2020s is that all the LA-based 50-something reality TV mavens of today were one or two degrees of separation from Nicole. She was BFFs with Kris Jenner, all the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills were friends with her. It’s quite eerie how she’s this unspoken common thread between all these fame hungry doyennes of LA “society”. Had she not been murdered, Nicole would certainly have been a member of Andy Cohen’s harem.

As for Ron, he seemed like a douchey juicehead. He and Nicole were almost certainly fucking or about to.

I have not seen one serious OJ apologist on this thread, just some people offering alternate theories. I have also not seen anyone trashing Nicole. Some people have not painted her out to be a saint, but that's not trashing her nor is it saying that she deserved to be abused or murdered. Some of you clearly cannot have adult conversations with opposing viewpoints or someone playing devil's advocate.

You sound like a misogynist who's angry that people sympathize with a murdered woman and an innocent bystander.

R469 If Nicole and Ron were black, people wouldn’t still care about their murders 30 years later and they wouldn’t be treated as saints by the media. It’s just the truth.

OJ didn’t have any money to spend on a search for the real killers because of the judgment in the wrongful death suit.

Two friends/coworkers of Ron Goldman were murdered around the same time and their murders are still unsolved.

Two coworkers/friends of Ron Goldman were murdered around the same time and their murders are still unsolved.

[quote]If Nicole and Ron were black, people wouldn’t still care about their murders 30 years later and they wouldn’t be treated as saints by the media. It’s just the truth.

Why do you care, though? Why does it bother you so much that people cared about two innocent people being brutally murdered? Why are you obsessed?

Why do you guys act like you knew Nicole and Ron personally and were related to them like they were your own family? I find that creepier.

Comment from LSA:

“Let's not be naive. It will also always be a part of pop culture because we live in a racist, white supremacist society. White America thinks that it is fine that they murder black people all day every day and get away with it. But this is the first high profile case we ever really saw where a black person (allegedly) murdered a white person and got away with it.

Make no mistake. They don't give a flying fµck about Nicole Brown and neither do I. White women like her get abused and murdered every day by their own people. Nobody would still be talking about this case with such fervour if the racial element didn't exist. Maybe when they care this much about black people getting murdered, I will have some fucks to give.”

Comment from LSA:

“I don’t want to hear about all the mistakes the prosecution made. I want to know how he killed two people without a bruise, scratch or cut on his body.

How did he managed to rush home in his bronco and only have two drops of blood in/on the car?

How did he manage to have a cut on his hand but not on the glove?

Lastly, how did he managed to do all that stabbing and not manage any cuts to the glove?

Oh and manage to pull all of this off, and catch a flight. How?

This would better help me understand the “miscarriage of justice” everyone purports to have occurred.”

It really has nothing to do with being murdered but personally returning a pair of sunglasses is not something any waiter really feels the need to do unless he wanted to for whatever reason. Ive never heard of anyone doing that and I worked fine dining through college.

[quote]. OJ: Made in America just reinforces the black brute narrative, insults the jury’s intelligence, gives genocidal racist Mark Fuhrman a pass, and misrepresents and lies about the trial evidence.

Because OJ WAS a black brute, the jury were a bunch of FUCKING IDOIOTS and yes Mark Fuhrman was a racist but he didn't alter evidence.

OJ's blood was all over that crime scene, Nicole and Ron's blood were at OJ's house. At the time the blood evidence was found, the cops had no idea where OJ was. You can't plant evidence if you don't know where the person you're trying to frame was at the time the crime occured. Case closed.

R443 I remember the Jodi Arias case, I think there was a small blood in her car rental and she did a number on Travis Alexander.

[quote] If Nicole and Ron were black,

But they weren't black,

[quote] people wouldn’t still care about their murders 30 years later

But they do.

[quote] and they wouldn’t be treated as saints by the media. It’s just the truth.

They are. And it is.

[quote]Two friends/coworkers of Ron Goldman were murdered around the same time and their murders are still unsolved.

But those murders had nothing to do with the fact that OJ murdered Ron Goldman.

r479 everybody at Mezzaluna knew Nicole, she was a regular customer. Her condo was only a five minute walk away.

Everybody in Brentwood did coke in the 90s. How many of them were murdered by drug dealers?

[quote]returning a pair of sunglasses is not something any waiter really feels the need

They were prescription glasses of an elderly woman. Does that make you feel better?

Robert Kardashian's face said it all when the jury read their verdict: "I'm going straight to hell."

And he DID. Eight years later.

Can you even imagine what the riots would've been if the jury had found OJ not guilty? It would've been n-----rpalooza all over the US. Martial law and shit.

You know that's true.

"Nicole and Ron were murdered by drug dealers" was never a part of the defense in the trial. If there had been even one inkling of evidence that that was what happened, those scumbags Cochran and Bailey would've been all over it like flies on shit.

Case closed.

[quote]Why do you care, though? Why does it bother you so much that people cared about two innocent people being brutally murdered? Why are you obsessed?

This quote is definitely a millennial speak. My little sister speaks like this all the time when we argue and it drives me crazy - the twisting of the words to create some unrelated argument. Why do you care? Why do you care? What the fuck is it to you what I care about. And they love the word obsessed... Jesus Christ.

Why did some of the blood evidence "found" have traces of test-tube additive in it?

[quote] when they started talking about the blood evidence. There was, like, a milliliter of blood they couldn’t account for. And they found blood on the back fence of Nicole’s condo, and that particular blood also had the additive in there. That additive is only found in [a test tube of blood], so why would the blood sample on that back fence contain that additive unless somebody took the blood from the test tube and placed it there?

I was the original poster who was playing Devil's advocate yesterday on here through several posts. I had nothing better to do on a Sunday. But it does make me smile to see I am not the only one who doubts that OJ did it. It's like because of all of my posts, people feel freer now to express their doubts and are tired of being bullied into just accepting as fact something that may not be true JUST because some people scream that they are.

The timeline of events just doesn't add up. And the testimony they no one pays attention to because it doesn't suit their narrative. There is A LOT of evidence that leads to reasonable doubt. And again, the Timeline doesn't add up.

[quote]R492 being bullied into just accepting as fact something that may not be true JUST because some people scream that they are.

The mountain of evidence "scream[s]" that it's true.

[quote]I was the original poster who was playing [bold]Devil's[/bold] advocate

That's one thing you've got right...you're definitely OJ's advocate.

[quote]OJ's blood was all over that crime scene, Nicole and Ron's blood were at OJ's house. At the time the blood evidence was found, the cops had no idea where OJ was. You can't plant evidence if you don't know where the person you're trying to frame was at the time the crime occured. Case closed.

People are failing to remember that with the LAPD at the time planting evidence was di rigour. They had done it so much and gotten away with it, a lot of convictions from it, that there was an entire infrastructure to facilitate it. They were corrupt as hell. And with that comes hubris. They didn't need to know where OJ was. They just knew he beat his wife and in their minds, most likely he did it. And the detective who "found" all of the evidence in the case was proven to be a big part of this corruption - so much so that he had to plead the fifth in order to not self-incriminate. He was a liar.

I think it was all just a big misunderstanding. If Nicole had been a proper hostess and invited Ron, OJ, and Charlie in for some coffee cake, scones, and cappuccino, things would have turned out much better. Instead, Nicole made a bloody mess of things by simply not having enough baked goods on hand to take a good stab at being a good hostess.

Of course the time-line "adds up."

OJ hid in wait, as he frequently did, to stalk, to spy. But this night he arrived in a rage, from the earlier snub at his daughter's dance recital.

But you know, people defending OJ for whatever they think they know about the sequence of events (OJ was late for his limo because he hadn't expected Ron. An eyewitness saw his white Bronco speeding in the vicinity, but Clark disallowed her testimony because she had sold it to the National Enquirer); or about the blood; or about so many other inculpatory bits of evidence that they somehow "have read about somewhere" are actually exculpatory, or corrupted, or planted, or fake, or impossible, none of which makes sense except to a person who believes that amateur sleuths on crime-websites somehow have more knowledge, more access, more testing facilities, more witnesses, more truths than the entire prosecution.

As Alexander Pope wrote, "A little learning is a dangerous thing."

Funny thing, though. The "real killer(s)" haven't been found, haven't tripped up once in all these years. I personally believe they live in some gated community with the "real killer" of Jon Benet and the "real kidnapper" of Madeleine McCann, but that's just me.

[quote]People are failing to remember that with the LAPD at the time planting evidence was di rigour. They had done it so much and gotten away with it, a lot of convictions from it, that there was an entire infrastructure to facilitate it. They were corrupt as hell. And with that comes hubris. They didn't need to know where OJ was. They just knew he beat his wife and in their minds, most likely he did it.

^ Don't tell me what the fuck to do R497.

The tainted blood information came from a actual juror R496.

[quote]OJ hid in wait, as he frequently did, to stalk, to spy. But this night he arrived in a rage, from the earlier snub at his daughter's dance recital.

So this night he decided to dress in all black and take a knife and kill her? He planned to wait, WAIT, and stalk her on the off chance she might come out of her condo in the 30 minutes he had to kill before rushing home.

That is the part I don't get - the mix or premeditation involved with developing an intricate alibi - yet not even knowing for sure if you will be able to pull it off because you have to WAIT, stalk someone to do it which might take hours. You don't plan on stalking and killing someone when you have limited time to do it. AND all of this was done in a rage.

Premeditated, but in a rage. Elaborately planned rage that had to happen in a a short window of time.

But what would lead to OJ being so enraged that he killed two people in such a ferocious way? He was divorced from Nicole. They had tried reconciling but OJ was in a relationship with Paula Barbieri at the time of the murders and didn't seem interested in getting back together with Nicole. What does OJ stand to gain if he kills his ex-wife?

Yeah, it's not like he was obsessed with her, stalking her, or anything

Brentwood always up to no good!

[quote]R469 I have also not seen anyone trashing Nicole.

You did:

[quote]R192 Nicole, Chris K and Faye were all coke head party girls who fucked each others’s men

[quote]R192 They were gold digging, social climbing sluts who in NO way would be associating with or “Friends Of” the likes of waiters or houseboys UNLESS they were some kind of drug connection.

[quote]R397 just know in a world of coke heads, which Nicole, Kris and Faye were definitely a part of

But yeah, you're just interested in the facts of the case and hold no hostility toward the murdered woman at all.

The government doesn't need to prove WHY a person committed a crime, r500, if it can prove THAT a person committed a crime. So just because you have questions about the murders (because you don't think like a killer---one hopes) does not mean the murderer didn't do it.

Moreover, doesn't every human being know that ending a relationship doesn't necessarily mean ending emotional ties? OJ WAS JEALOUS. And a new GF doesn't automatically change things.

R499, You've never heard of controlled rage? And no living witness knows why Nicole stepped out of her condo. Perhaps OJ made a noise; perhaps he called to her; perhaps she stepped out to wait for Ron (who, BTW, had arranged to meet up with friends, not to have a fling with Nicole).

Plus, ummm, OJ was arrested, you'll recall. So maybe, verdict aside, he hadn't really thought through how long a knife-slaying might take? Because he wasn't a genius?

Plus, he had no idea a strapping young man would confront him and furiously fight for HIS life.

For r500:

A JUROR, R499?

Yeah. Okay. The jurors understood so much.

I don't understand why some of you are so invested in "proving" OJ's "innocence."

For r499:

I didn't realize that 2 of Goldman's close friends, "boys", "running buddies", or whatever also died under mysterious circumstances and their murders are still unresolved. That's new information to me. And all around the same general time frame. Hmm...

OJ Made in America, was a terrific documentary. As for "intricate alibis" He was already scheduled to go to Chicago. It was not an invention, it was not something he did on purpose. O.J. frequently traveled to golf outings and other promotional events for the companies he was under contract with. And going out for burgers with Kato apparently wasn't that unusual. He could have sent Kato to pick up some food, knowing he had to pack, but they went out together instead. He had a time frame in which to do what he wanted to do. And as he himself said to friends, "Sometimes I've had fantasies of killing Nicole." It was not difficult for him to create that window of opportunity to go over to her house kill her and then come home. From the moment he left Kato, until the moment the limo driver saw a dark figure walking in to the house, he had time. I doubt it took more that 15 minutes t o kill both victims, if that. Ron didn't struggle long. He was already injured and bleeding out even as he fought for his life. Nicole was unconscious when her throat was sliced open.

I meant to add that O.J. had made trial runs to Nicole's house in the past, to stalk and spy on her, probably working himself up to actually following through and killing her. He wasn't going to barge in on her when she had company.

Kato said the only time OJ asked him to go for burgers was the night of the murders. What a weird coincidence

No. R512 that's not what happened.

OJ went to Kato's room, asked kato for a $20 and Kato asked where he was going , OJ said to get some, Kato I said he was hungry and asked if he could go. He invited himself.

During the trial, I don't recall any discussion of what they talked about on the way over there or what OJ's reaction was to being asked to go. When Marsha Clark asked if OJ seemed happy about him coming in or something Kato made a joke instead "wouldn't you?" Which brought laughter in the courtroom.

Later on in interviews, Kato said that he said OJ paused and looked at him for a while and Kato could feel OJ did not want him to go there.

Kato said years later in interviews after the murders, that when they had people over such as the Jacksons and family OJ was saying "yeah it couldn't have been me because me and Kato were in the kitchen eating burgers."

Which isn't what happened. Kato testified OJ ate it hurriedly in the car, and Kato took his food back to his room to eat. And Cato felt he was going to be used and he moved out of the place a few days later because he was so uncomfortable

When limo driver testified he saw a shadowy figure enter the house, come on, that was OJ. He was returning home after being out.

R514, did you listen do the video you posted? It says there was NO "Shadowy Figure" testimony from the limo driver. Seeing a shadowy figure run across the driveway and lawn was NEVER part of anyone's testimony.

So this is what I mean when people talk about this case and ALL of the evidence, and testimony. It's not a matter of it was true or not - it didin't even exist in the actual trial. People want OJ to be guilty SO badly.

People need to pick a lane. O.J. enacting a meticulously laid plan to murder his ex-wife in cold blood and O.J. the out-of-control throat slasher who was so sloppy that he left incriminating evidence both at the scene of the crime and at his residence are two entirely different scenarios. Combining them doesn’t make sense,

Will we ever find out the results from OJ's search for the real killer(s)?

O.J. had a window of approximately 45 minutes to commit the murders. And yes, you can meticulously plan and still get careless. O.J. was going to kill Nicole. He had no idea Ron would walk in on him doing that. In the tussle, he lost his glove and his knit cap. He cut his finger and bled onto the walk way leading to the alley where he had parked his Bronco. Bloody Footprints led in that direction.There was blood on the back gate where he exited.

[quote] did you listen do the video you posted? It says there was NO "Shadowy Figure" testimony from the limo driver. Seeing a shadowy figure run across the driveway and lawn was NEVER part of anyone's testimony.

The limo driver did inded say he saw a figure run into the house:

[quote]He testified that he drove by Simpson’s entrance twice and did not see the Simpson Bronco parked there either time. He said he rang the entrance buzzer several times and saw a shadowy figure dressed in black enter the house at 10:55 p.m. A man he believed to be Simpson answered the intercom and said he overslept.

[quote]People want OJ to be guilty SO badly.

Because he WAS guilty you stupid fuckwit. There was a mountain of evidence against him.

Even one of his closest friends, Robert Kardashian knew he was guilty. He knew where Nicole lived. He knew Simpson, he was in court every day. He knew. He didn't want to believe it, and he kept trying to deny it in his own mind, but every t ime he followed the evidence it all came back to Simpson.

One thing I don't get was his motive to do this on this particular night. It doesn't add up for me. Why did he try to fit this crime into a short window just before he was supposed to go to the airport? Or was the idea that he was using his trip to Chicago as his alibi, even if it would be provable that he had time to do it before leaving? It seems so iffy to me.

Also, why was she outside?

Kardashian's facial expression when the not guilty verdict was read said it all. He was visibly shocked.

Chicago was his alibi. We'll never know why Nicole was outside. She perhaps saw OJ and went outside to confront him or he pounded on the door and she opened it. She also could've been waiting for Ron.

If only Ring cameras had been around back then.

My guess is that he had been fantasizing about it for a very long time, r522. The actual killing, though, was spur-of-the-moment, fueled by multiple rejections from Nicole and her family, as well as his current girlfriend, in the same day.

Thanks for your answers. It makes a little more sense to me know. And I watched a little more of the Max documentary, a part about the glasses, and it's now clear to me that Nicole knew Ron was coming with the glasses. (I wasn't sure about that.) So she was probably having some ice cream and waiting for him, and when OJ showed up, she maybe thought it was Ron and came outside.

^^And also, Nicole was finally done with him and he knew it. They had reconciled once or twice in the past, but Nicole was finally done and was moving on from him.

"to me now," not "know"

And now that I think more about it, I think the fact that she came outside indicates that there was nothing that personal between her and Ron. He was just a friend doing a favor, and she was saving him the trouble of coming all the way in with her mother's glasses by being ready for him. She didn't intend for him to come in.

R515 yes I think that's why OJ was so upset because he knows that he was seen by the limo driver. A 200 plus pound man 6 ft tall. Who the hell else is that?? There was nobody else in the home but Kato and him and Arnelle wasn't that big.

Two of Ron's best friends were killed on year before him and one year after him. The murder of the one before him was identical to Ron and Nicole's murder - stabbed multiple times and nearly decapitated. Both of them looked like assassinations. Ron, Nicole, Bret Canton and Michael Nigg were all friends through Mezzaluna and the club the Dragonfly. Besides these two known deaths associated with two of his friends and waiters at Mezzaluna, two other waiters from the same restaurant were kidnapped and one had his car set ablaze.

To all of you saying that the drug angle was not brought up in court, it was:

[quote]Although the murders of two people known to Ron Goldman may just be a coincidence, at the trial of O.J. Simpson, his attorney alleged that Brett, Ron, Micheal, and even Nicole, had been involved in the drug trade through, the Mezzaluna Trattoria restaurant which was alleged to be a cocaine distribution hub in Los Angeles. And that was what had gotten all four killed. Though it’s merely an allegation, on the part of the defense, there are a few facts:

Read the article for the rest. Both of Ron's best friends were being investigate by the FBI for dealing drugs.

"But what would lead to OJ being so enraged that he killed two people in such a ferocious way? He was divorced from Nicole. They had tried reconciling but OJ was in a relationship with Paula Barbieri at the time of the murders and didn't seem interested in getting back together with Nicole. What does OJ stand to gain if he kills his ex-wife?"

My father tried to murder my mother when she was divorcing him. This was in the 80's. They have both been divorced and remarried for 41 years and I often had to listen to my father's fantasies about killing my mom and my step father...for YEARS. I no longer speak to my father but he's still obsessed with my mom even though my mom now has dementia and likely wouldn't recognize him. Just a few months ago, my father asked one of my brothers if he could "drive him to your mom's house. I have something I want to say to her before I die." My brother laughed at him and told him my mother wouldn't even know him and my dad fell into yet another of his deep depressions that he would have often. My dad was OBSESSED with my mother his entire life and never accepted that she could not want to be with him.

People are nuts.

And I should add that my father behaves a lot like OJ did. I recognized my father in OJ. He absolutely killed her.

How many restaurants have three waiters murdered, assissinated within two years of each other with two more being kidnapped?

OJ was probably snooping around Nicoles previously to see what the fuck she was doing around his kids in her home. If he knew his ex-wife was friends of owners of a club that was a known drug spot AND one of those people involved was driving her car, I would be a bit anxious too about what might be happening around my kids.

20:00 mark

there's OJ going into the house, The lights are coming on in the bedroom after that.

But I'm sure that's all circumstantial

Oops! 20:00 Mark of here

[quote]OJ was probably snooping around Nicoles previously to see what the fuck she was doing around his kids in her home. If he knew his ex-wife was friends of owners of a club that was a known drug spot AND one of those people involved was driving her car, I would be a bit anxious too about what might be happening around my kids.

You sound like every abusive man in a custody battle ever.

It's just not adding up. Nicole was involved with some very shady people. She was having threesomes with Faye Resnick. And out of Faye Resnick's own mouth, Nicole was suppose to try out Ron to see if he would be good for a threesome. That is what Faye Resnick said herself. Faye said Ron was going over there to "do it." When presses, she said, "to have sex." You can go for a quick hookup afterwork AND still have plans to meet up with friends later. Fay herself said that Nicole mentioned Ron was seducing her with his words. There was more than just a friendship going on. A friendship with someone probably dealing drugs with his friends out of Mezzaluna.

R516 I 100% agree with you. People can't hear the extreme contradictions in what they are proposing.

[quote]It's just not adding up.

Speak for yourself.

I am very curious to hear about OJ's search for the real killer(s)!

Regarding Alan Park - in the too weird it could be in LA connetion, his mom attorney Wendy Park was Patricia Krehnwinkel's attorney, trying to get her parole for the Manson Murders. There was a televised hearing in January of 1994 on CourtTV and I remembered her plea to the parole board on behalf of her, citing all the 'good work' she'd done while incarcerated.

R538, And what would an affair with Ron Goldman have do with their being slain, pray tell, by anybody other than a jealous man?

R516 (and r538), Are you new to the human race? How about to poetry and plans? I'm "picking this lane" (it's the penultimate stanza ye'll be wantin'):

[quote]And what would an affair with Ron Goldman have do with their being slain, pray tell, by anybody other than a jealous man?

Are you late to the story R542. Two of Ron's best friends were known to be dealing drugs and were likely assissnated for it. Ron worked in a restaurant that was known for dealing drugs. Most likely Ron was dealing drugs and Nicole got caught up in it. That is what got them killed in the exact same way as his friend a year earlier.

You can prevaricate all you want. Blood at the murder sight was all 3, bloody tracks to the Bronco were his, blood of all three in the Bronco and blood of all 3 back at Simpson home. Beaten to a pulp multiple times. Nicole was the classic abused wife with the worst ending. Ron was simply unlucky to be there at the time. He died fending off OJ with his back to a fence. She was dead when he nearly decapitated her for the coup de gras.

Decades of police brutality etc in LA got him off- payback. Some of the hirers even said as much later- I remember the verdict announce on TV’s of a hospital cafeteria where I worked. The black nurse I worked with said she knew he was guilty but it was time a black man got out of it like a white man. Pay back.

What’s so awful about it all is the same police shit is going on in 2024 and the same wealthy bloke using legal loopholes with big money to thwart justice. See Trump. And the same anger of a block of Americans although black Americans have a helluva lot more to gripe about than white American males.

PS, that is utter conspiracy bullshit R543.

Nothing in that article put that guy close to Goldman other than they worked on the same restaurant.

Suggest you watch the 2016 docu, currently on Netflix. How old are you R543?

It's not a conspiracy that the two men killed were being investigated by the FBI for dealing drugs. For it to reach that level, that is not some small amount. And it is a fact that they were both killed - one in the exact same way Ron and Nicole were. That is a fact too. And it's a fact that it all happened within a two year span. That's a hard fact as well.

R546, it's a REALLY short article. How could you not have read it...?

[quote]Dragonfly proved to be very popular with clubgoers one of the frequent attendees was Nicole Brown Simpson her friend Ron Goldman for a time, was a waiter at the club. He and Brett were well-acquainted. Another attendee was actress Rose McGowan who became romantically involved with Brett, whom she referred to as her soulmate.

Brett and Ron worked together at the Dragonfly club. All four Nicole, Ron, Brett and Michael knew each other through the club AND the Mezzaluna restaurant. They were not just coworkers, they hung out.

you say, "Ron had friends who were assassinated..." But you infer that they were close and I don't think you have any way to know the nature of those relationships. He was young. He worked in a restaurant. He may have been friendly with the people he worked with. He may have even stopped by a club or a party at the casual invitation of someone he knew. But to say they were friends when in point of fact they were very likely just friendly in that casual way younger people have, is a stretch. To all reports, Ron was ambitious and he had plans. He was a persona ltrainer, he worked at the restaurant, he was developing plans to open his own place, and he may have had a flirtation with Nicole. Put it another way.A woman I work with is murdered by her neighbor. This is a woman I used to see in the elevator. We always said hello and had brief conversations about the weather. I'd see her in the break room sometimes and we'd joke about a TV show we both watched. Were we friends? No. I knew her. we were friendly. But we were not friends. And because she was murdered did not mean I was in any way connected to her demise.

There is no evidence that they were well acquainted. There was also no evidence of drug use in Nicole or Ron’s homes or at the murder site.

Guilt of bad vibe by association.

R549 if you and your neighbor were slaughtered in the exact same way within a year of each other, it would definitely look like a pattern. And they did more than just work together. They hung out at the club and the restaurant together. Faye Resnick herself said Ron and Nicole were going to fuck. She knew this because Nicole told her as much. Faye and Nicole had had threesomes with guys before. There is absolutely nothing wrong in all of this. But it definitely DOES point to the fact that they were more possibly more than just acquaintances. Their entertwined lives and very similar deaths.

The blood evidence doesn't lie. OJ did it.

The blood evidence found at OJ's with residue from a lab test tube in it R552?

The blood evidence was found before OJ's blood was taken at the police station you idiot. And as has been said, the cops had no idea where OJ was when the gloves were found. You don't plant evidence if you don't know where the person you're trying to frame is.

And why would the cops want to frame OJ anyway and risk going to jail for the rest of their lives?

Did the ghost of Johnnie Cochran find DL?

Someone posted a link to Ron Goldman's episode of Studs. He was just like every other good looking, coke sniffing, LA douchebag in the 90s. It's a shame this guy was murdered, he shouldn't have been murdered, but those of you wanting him to be some boy scout is bordering on the ridiculous.

OJ did it, but if someone said that two of Ron's friends were murdered, one in an eerily similar way, I'd want to know more if I were on a jury in 1994, before DNA became what it is now.

If anything, knowing that two guys got killed would give O.J. the incentive to do a copy cat crime. And honestly, when you a re at the point where you are citing Faye Resnick as a credible witness, I have to leave the table, hon.

Oh c'mon in this whole convoluted OJ saga, Faye is just as credible as anyone else.

[quote] And why would the cops want to frame OJ anyway and risk going to jail for the rest of their lives?

That is the most naive thing I’ve heard on this thread. You must have been too young to know about the notorious LAPD in the 80s and 90s. They have been shown to have been framing people left and right and getting away with it for years. OJ would be no different. They knew he beat his wife. They probably thought he did it. They’d want to close the case as quickly as possible.

From everything I have read about the events before and after Ron and Nicole’s murders in subsequent years - the FBI drug raids, the kidnappings, disappearances and murders - ALL associated with the Mezzaluna restaurant, I am really starting to believe that Nicole was the person at the wrong place at the wrong time.

R557 the man from Mezzaluna slaughtered in a similar fashion, stabbed multiple times and almost decapitated was killed in 1995, after Ron and Nicole.

Okay, to the person who keeps bringing up that two other people from Mezzaluna were killed "in the exact same way" as Ron Goldman and Nicole Brown: And then what? The FBI who were supposedly investigating the drug dealing just dropped it when yet another waiter got stabbed to death? And were any of the other victims killed at *someone else's house* like Ron?

I'm not buying the drug angle. There's only one thing they all had in common: they were stabbed and slashed to death. That doesn't mean the same person or faction killed them all.

On the night of the murders the LAPD received a phone call at 10:30 PM. An unidentified female asked the desk officer who answered the call if the police knew about a double homicide in Brentwood. The timing of this phone call coincides with the time the murders were believed to have taken place, or very close to it. Who made that call-- and why-- remains unknown.

[quote]That is the most naive thing I’ve heard on this thread. You must have been too young to know about the notorious LAPD in the 80s and 90s. They have been shown to have been framing people left and right and getting away with it for years. OJ would be no different. They knew he beat his wife. They probably thought he did it. They’d want to close the case as quickly as possible.

I was in college at the time and remember everything vividly. THE BLOOD EVIDENCE DOES NOT LIE. Idiot. The cops were not framing people "all the time" and they certainly wouldn't frame a high-profile celebrity.

Furthermore, the cops had no idea where OJ was at the time the gloves were found and all the blood was found at Nicole's condo, OJ's house and the Bronco. You don't frame someone if you don't know where he is. Also, OJ's blood sample was not taken until later. They did not have a vial of OJ's blood at the time.

God, you're a moron.

DNA doesn't lie. OJ did it.

What about OJ’s search for the real killers?

R561 Ron and Nicole were in the middle. All four victims were killed assassination style. The first was shot in the head the year before. The victim who was killed similarly to Ron and Nicole was the last in 1995. It’s naive to think that three people who were known as coworkers AND friends (not just casually) all get assassinated in a two year span and think it’s not connected. Since then two waiters were kidnapped. And others associated with this restaurant have disappeared. And no, the FBI didn’t just give up on it, but the murderers were never found. However the last victim had his jaw slashed and his tongue pulled out, which is related to Colombian drug land killings.

And somehow those drug dealers had OJ's blood and sprinkled it all over the crime scene, the Bronco and OJ's house!

Again, you're a fucking idiot.

R565 if the FBI can’t find them with all their resources why even try?

[quote] And somehow those drug dealers had OJ's blood and sprinkled it all over the crime scene, the Bronco and OJ's house!

So a man butchers two people in a hurry yet has time in the dark to clean up every speck of the blood except traces, most of which was discovered by Mark Furman who bragged about seeing Nicole’s tits and was a lying LAPD racist who had to plead the fifth for the remainder of his testimony?

OJ in a rage doesn’t strike me as someone on the level of Dexter meticulous. Blood everywhere pouring down the sidewalk. An actual fight to the death. OJ would be soaked in blood, especially with a bare hand. But yet no fingerprints. Ok… Use your brains people. It doesn’t make sense. It just doesn’t.

Nicole's family seems severely off in a lot of the interviews - almost as if they were defending him!!

A chaotic, brutal stabbing spree is not an "assassination-style" killing.

I always truly wondered if OJ came upon the murdered bodies after the real killers had fled, and went into temporary shock and then developed amnesia.

r559, I worked Loss Prevention at Bullocks Department store in Westwood village when the killings happened. The day after, I arrested a shoplifter and waited for the police to arrive to escort them to jail. When they arrived, one of my partners asked them about the murders and they BOTH said, "It doesn't look good for OJ" and they were upset about it. The LAPD admired OJ and looked the other way when Nicole called about her abuse. They did not frame him, although my sister dated Mark Furhman's partner and said Mark was a racist asshole. I still don't think he would have risked his career by planting evidence. The cops liked OJ which is also why they let him run like he did.

[quote]OJ in a rage doesn’t strike me as someone on the level of Dexter meticulous. Blood everywhere pouring down the sidewalk. An actual fight to the death. OJ would be soaked in blood, especially with a bare hand. But yet no fingerprints. Ok… Use your brains people. It doesn’t make sense. It just doesn’t.

OJ changed clothes before he got in the Bronco. That was what was in the duffel bag he threw away at the airport. Men who are savage domestic abusers often kill their wives, it happens all the time.

"An actual fight to the death."

This was not the type of fight that happened. Yes, Ron fought but he had already been hit by OJ and was likely not in fighting form. OJ skewered him from behind, then moved on to Nicole who also had been hit and was lying on the ground. OJ picked her up from behind with the knife and then slashed her throat from behind. The blood spurted out, away from OJ. He would have had the blood on his gloves and shoes, but likely had very little on his body. Ron Goldman was 6'1, weighed 171 lbs and OJ was 6'1 and well over 200 lbs when he killed him. He was in an adrenaline fuelled rage which can make someone very powerful.

There were no fingerprints because he was wearing gloves.

O.J. had parties at his house for the cops. He palled around with them, probably got them free hams and free car rentals. Probably got them on to golf courses and into country clubs f or lunch and a round of golf they could never afford. Free tickets to tournaments and sporting events. He was OJ. And as many times as Nicole called the cops they did nothing. Only one cop ever even tried to help her. One. When it came to OJ, they did nothing. He was their idol. A celebrity they admired. If anything, the cops would have been doing their damnedest to get him off. The idea that the cops set him up and framed him for a murder he didn't commit is absurd on its face! Black jurors may have bought that coming out of Johnny Cochran's mouth, but the reality was f ar different.

Something I noticed in the 911 calls. When they are calm, Nicole sort of talks to OJ like he's a big dumb dog. It reminded me of how Taylor treated Travis Kelce.

It's awful to think that if Ron Goldman had arrived at Nicole's condo literally two minutes before he actually did he would still be alive today, all these years later.

R538 Ok let's go with your premise. An angry drug dealer or drug something killed her. They followed Ron and he just happened to show up at her house so angry drug duo killed them both...

So drug dealers motive? Don't they want money? If they know Nicole is rich OJs ex/wife, why wouldn't they kidnap her and blackmail OJ and demand ransom money. What kind of drug dealer kills their way of making money?

What could Ron and Nicole possibly have done? If they owed money, wouldn't they have been robbed? You'd have to be pretty psycho to kill your supply chain.

Women coming out of divorce find sexual liberation in various forms. They killed her for that? Wtf.

R566 Glad that Bermuda triangle of restaurants has been shut down.

Drug dealers typically don't murder their clients, even when their clients owe them money.

Around 10:00, OJ prophesied his future.

Did they ever check OJ's shower for blood traces? I think he told the limo driver he took a shower before running out to meet him.

What matters is that the blood on OJ’s socks was Nicole’s blood. The blood inside the Bronco and the blood on the gloves belonged to OJ and both of the victims. Goldman had never been a passenger in the Bronco, let alone while bleeding. OJ had never even met Goldman before, so how did Goldman’s blood get on OJ’s gloves and in OJ’s Bronco???

I think OJ accidentally did it.

[quote]I think OJ accidentally did it.

🙄

[quote] my sister dated Mark Furhman's partner and said Mark was a racist asshole. I still don't think he would have risked his career by planting evidence

R573 At the trial Fuhrman was asked point blank if he ever planted evidence or falsified a police report and he plead the fifth. What more proof do you need? A lot of white Americans are delusional about the police. They never believe or want to believe that a cop would "risk it" even though corruption is exposed all the time, in particular within police departments. And the LAPD is one of if not the most corrupt in the nation.

If you plead the fifth for one question you have to plead for others. It was in the ESPN doc.

[quote] If you plead the fifth for one question you have to plead for others.

I don't think so. You can answer some questions and not others.

FFS it's in the ESPN doc just watch it.

Fuhrman pleaded the 5th because he committed perjury when he said he didn't use the N word. Had he not pleaded the 5th, he could've gone on trial for perjury. Since he already committed perjury, his other statements could've been called into question so he was advised to plead the 5th for everything. It was dumb advice from the prosecution.

[quote] FFS it's in the ESPN doc just watch it.

What a crybaby. ESPN is the final word on the law?

You CAN answer some questions and plead the 5th to others. For example: What's your name?

Marcia Clark explained it in the doc.

Here's the clip from the ESPN doc explaining why Fuhrman took the 5th. Starts at 1:16:49.

No. Legally...if you plead the 5th, you have to plead it for everything they ask you, you can't pick and choose. Which is why when OJ's defense team, I think it was Bailey, asked him if he planted the glove, he pled the 5th.

The "OJ was innocent" troll is an utter moron.

All of the defense team were scumbags, but Bailey was in a class of his own. He was later disbarred because he was stealing from a client, I believe.

And that was all she wrote. They lost the jury with two things: Furman and the lack of bruises and very little blood on OJ. It was 94, DNA evidence wasn't really that well understood. But Furman sunk the whole thing.

You can call the defence team scumbags, but that's the kind of defense team you want.

[quote] Unlike defendants, witnesses who assert this right [5th amendment] may do so selectively. They do not waive their rights the moment they begin answering questions.

Now, if they did not introduce the glove into evidence, they could have avoided putting Fuhrman on the stand. But he was the guy who saw the blood inside the Bronco and called the other detectives over to look at it. He was the guy who hopped over the gate, and he was the guy who found the glove. I don't know if it would have been correct procedurally, but maybe the prosecution could have designated one of the other detectives to speak for all three, as a team, sort of and say "We found blood inside the Bronco, we were concerned that we had a second crime scene and we needed to go to the house to see if O J was OK. We questioned Kato, who heard noise out back, so we went out back and found the glove. " I don't even know if they could've done that. But if there had been a way to keep Fuhrman off the witness stand they should have taken it. And they should have left Darden back in the office.

[quote]It was 94, DNA evidence wasn't really that well understood.

Very true. DNA was still relatively new tech and remember this was before CSI, SVU, and the millions of true crime shows that came later on and really familiarized the public with DNA. The general public has a very good grasp of DNA and what it means now, but things were different back then.

Hell, this was back during a time when everyone still thought Ellen D. was straight.

Hopefully this may clarify this whole pleading the 5th thing. Once a person answers questions the court may compel him to testify, having given up his 5th amendment privilege.