American food is basically poison, right?

I am European and was shocked that your fruit loops were blue!!!

Yes. Europe is perfect. They don't even shit.

These are generalities, OP. So in general and in comparison to European food, American food is overly processesed. It's overly industrialised. There are a lot of junky ingredients and uncessary ingredients in American food - and the people like it and buy it. It's mushy and sweet and bland, in general and in comparison. Whole foods left the American diet, generally. American food is CHEAP and plentiful, and portion control also disappeared sometime in the 1980s. American food science started at the large land grant universities, which were tasked to aid the industries of agriculture and food animal businesses of the state. It was the most advanced in the world but diverged from the nutrition departments. The nutrition department knew for example that hydrogenated vegetable fats were a disaster but the food science departments fell in love with it. Similar with corn syrup and processed sugars, replacing cane sugar. Food science departments trained the chemists who went to work for the food industry and they created incredibly "tasty" and addicting crap foods. It's very hard for most people to resist, and the American diet changed over a few decades, degrading in quality and healthiness.

I could go on.

This isn't to say that brilliant whole foods can't be bought in USA. They can. But the masses do not buy it and many do not have a taste for it.

Yes. The lawsuits are coming

At my groccery store, you can for instance buy Heinz Ketchup without High Fructose Corn Syrup but it costs more. In Canada, however, they only sell Heinz ketchup without HFC.

Acid reflux is also a common complaint among those after they first move to the U.S.--people who'd never suffered from it before.

OP, what are you talking about?

There is NO nutritional benefit to "organic" food! Period. None.

People eat too much crap high in calories. That's the culprit. Grow up.

Round Up.

Also, to expound on what R1 said- there is a key political component here, even if these frankenfoods were developed in a lab. Once they were engineered (for profits), they were protected and promoted on the Hill. Then, very aggresive lobby groups were allowed. This doesn't happen in other countries, especially not Europe. But here there is- for example- a corn lobby and they'll pay under the table to suppress the most damaging studies and make sure some law is put in place to ensure that a little bit of corn syrup is a required ingredient in almost every processed food, etc.

They're so powerful that Michelle Obama had to back off her original campaign of 'East Less Crap and Move More' to just 'Move More'. It done very quietly but it happened because she was pressured to shut up by the corporations.

I was travelling a lot to the US for work until relatively recently. I noticed that I was doing better when I was staying at Residence Inns and cooked for myself with food from Whole Foods and Trader Joe's. Restaurant food and convenience foods gave me a lot more bathroom time, especially when I had non-organic dairy food. Dairy is just nasty in America.

The discussion and problem has very little to do with organic versus non organic.

Meat and dairy in USA has been way way too industrialized. Many Americans lack two things required to even consider buying a less industrialized product: 1) the cash and 2) the knowledge.

Also important - a choice.

Let's take butter. In Switzerland I have at least 6 choices of milk all clearly labelled. But even the most "industrial" one is better than standard american butter.

Or chickens. Do I want a Swiss chicken or European one? If I want a Swiss chicken, do I want a free range one that literally, really, walked around outside in the sun? Do I want an organic one or not? Should it be from my state (Canton), or anywhere in the country? I can get a plump more industrial imported chicken for 6-8 USD equivalent, and start paying 10-18 dollars for Swiss chickens, or I can get French AOC gourmet chickens (traditional birds) for 20-28 bucks. A chicken.

European food has industrialized a lot since the creation of the Euro, however. Different countries took over the production of a good percentage of certain products to be exported all over Europe.

20 years ago you went to the grocery to buy a peach in beach season and it came from your country. Now there is a choice. Your country, or Spain and Italy. etc etc.

French supermarkets catering to working class and the ignorant in nutrition, and bargain hunters, now sell a surprising amount of industrialized food.

Obesity is rising everywhere in Western Europe.

Most people do not want to pay for the pork raised outside on a local farm.

As high as food prices seem, I just read last week that the price per calorie cost of production is the lowest it’s ever been. This is largely due to the industrialization of the meat industry, near universal use of chemical fertilizers, pumping massive amounts of water out of rivers and aquifers, and the Round-Up revolution, which doubled or tripled crop yeilds.

You would think that this would lower food prices drastically, but because the whole world if eating more prices continue to rise.

that is for pork from a PIG raised outside....

Here's a free range Swiss chicken. It's not even organic. That's 20 USD.

It's all about money. Americans are not going to pay 20 dollars for a chicken when they can get one or 6 dollars on sale. I am talking about the average American family with two kids to feed on a average salary, not some high highfalutin homo who makes six figures and only supports himself.

The organic chickens at my local grocery run $20 or just under. I don’t know what they would be from the local farmer’s market but I’m constantly surprised how comparable the prices are.

If you can, shop the farmer’s market. The fewer middle men between you and the farmer, the more likely the food is going to be fresh, sustainable, and nutritious. When shopping in the grocery a good rule of thumb is shop around the outside aisles: vegetables, meats, cheese, dairy. 90% percent of the foods in the middle isles are highly processed. If it comes in a box, be wary. The fewer ingredients, the better, particularly if some of those ingredients are things you don’t recognize of can’t pronounce.

Here's 1 pork chop from a pig raised at least partially outside. 6.60 USD for the 1 chop. This is a middle class supermarket, not a fine supermarket. Many people can't afford this or don't think it's worth it. So they buy an industrial pork chop. But the industrial ones are not as gross as American industrial ones, that's for sure.

A country needs regulations about the quality and safety of the low priced food options. So it can't get too bad.

Ireland is very lucky to have good foodways and a relatively smaller population, so access to good meat and veg is better than some other places in Europe, especially if you're willing to pay. Fruit is a bit of a different story, with most citrus imported from Spain or elsewhere. There is one gourmet grocery here that has produce imported directly from Italy, and boy is that a treat. San Marzanos picked the same week.

People care a lot about food here, which was a total surprise given Irish cuisine's well-deserved reputation. While there may not be an emerging genre of fine Irish food, the culture here is ingredient-focused almost like Italy is, especially with meats and cheeses. We have a wealth of smaller artisanal producers who care a great deal about the quality of what they produce, not just the money they make from it.

I noticed that the "free range" meat and dairy are usually noticeably better in quality. It doesn't need to be organic, in opinion, because the chemicals allowed in my country are low.

I think we are accustomed to eating meat every day, many people every meal. This is a relatively new phenomenon. Before WWII, many people only had meat two or three times a week, if that. People ate much more fish back then too.

Nobody is saying otherwise, R14. Yes it's all about money. But the government should take a public health interest in regulating the "bottom line" food products so they aren't abominable. The industrial chicken doesn't need to be quite so horrifying for the chicken and the human eating it.

When I was young and often traveled, I enjoyed both European and North American fresh fruit. 😏

A few decades ago “something” happened. American produce (with skin) began to cause an upset stomach, even if thoroughly washed. I first noticed it with peaches, then with apples and shortly after, pears.

No problem with the European equivalents. Don’t know why, but I can only eat the U.S. produce if it’s been peeled and/or cooked.

Lord knows what has been done to U.S. agriculture.

Bayer purchased Monsanto (maker of Roundup) so now the same company that causes your cancer then turns around and sells you the chemotherapy.

OFFS, if Europe is so much better in every aspect, then why not just move over there instead of staying here and bitching about everything?

There is nothing wrong with American food if you eat in moderation and read labels.

l did, r24. And my grocery bill halved because I don't have to follow your cunty suggestion anymore.

if you are poor, yes

What I don't get is Europeans' love of room temp ultra pasteurized milk in a box. They have an entire aisle dedicated to it. Fresh milk is available too but box milk is more popular apparently.

Europeans don't drink glasses of milk, generally, as adults, and are more ok with long-life nasty tasting milk to use in cooking and baking, r27. They waste less product and money asa a result. I go with fresh, though.

UHT milk isn't a perfect product, true. But it's convenient and often cheaper. It's convenient for people who don't drink much milk, as unopened it keeps for weeks at room temperature. And forever, opened, in the fridge, it seems to me. I

t's convenient for families with growing children because many do not have huge American refrigerators so they can keep replacing the empty cartons with fresh ones until they go to the shop again. There is no such thing as a gallon of milk and some people wouldn't know where to put a gallon of milk.

OFFS R24. Read the caveat at R3

"This isn't to say that brilliant whole foods can't be bought in USA. They can. But the masses do not buy it and many do not have a taste for it."

Nobody except OP is arguing that all American food is toxic.

It's pay to play for less toxic food in the US, though, and it's a lot easier to find fault in the prices than look at the systemic issues. American foodways are mid-century infrastructure, designed by the food industry equivalents of Don Draper.

Hyper-processed foods are the primary reason, along with the bad fats/oils and chemicals. The US has a much lower regulatory standard for what they consider food. At least half of what you find packaged in the middle aisles of your grocery would be frown upon in Europe. This plays into different health issues over time, along with not getting sufficient nutrients.

The junk ingredients are banned and illegal in other countries.

Reading about potassium bromate, commonly found in bread, is more than a little scary.

The EU imports a significant amount of Brazilian corn and other products, Brazil is also the second largest consumer of GMO seed, look it up yourselves, so there you have it, Europeans eat GMO corn and feed it to their animals. Europeans sound just like a bitchy queen running their mouths.

R34 bromide was added to bread in place of iodine around the late 70s. Bromide suppresses thyroid function, unlike iodine which does the opposite. Notice how everyone got fat.

Bromide is highly toxic and purges your body of iodine. It’s highly linked to breast cancer. Iodine is essential for a healthy immune system and body. They’re killing us and treating us like science experiments.

Link

Wait. Are bromide and bromate the same thing?

Let's ask Countess de Lave!

R39 basically

Bromate is what gives NY pizza its chew. I bought a bag of bromated flour and it indeed makes great pizza. Without bromate the dough has to be kneaded for longer times. I read a study saying it's not cancerous if it's cooked beyond 500 degrees, which most pizza is.

What everyone is ignoring here is the preponderance of fast food, which has everything bad for you- yes there is fast food in Europe, but it's not as prevalent as the U.S. You can buy a huge prepared meal for less than buying and making it it for yourself and your family.

In Europe you can cut up a chicken and not have to throw away the cutting board, the knife, the gloves you wore to do it, and a without needing to do a deep bleach clean of all kitchen surfaces.

Living in Europe there's something off about U.S.D.A. meats. My cast iron stomach oblivious to indigestion makes itself known. There's a feeling as though you ate way too much when the off taste caused you to eat only a little.

In Europe strawberries taste like strawberries, eggs like eggs, leeks like leeks, figs have s flavor not just a texture. Wallk into a room with a bowl of lemons and you can smell the lemons before you see them. You can tell the ingredients in a dish by taste, because there are few and the tastes come though. In the U.S. every recipe is a challenge to see how many ingredients can be folded in and yet no flavor comes through, it's just the base sense of acid, sweet, salt... In Europe all butter tastes like butter; no need to pay three times the price for an Irish import as in the U.S. -- the cost of buying butter that tastes like butter.

You can tell the Americans who've never eaten in Europe - they're the ones who think standard American fare is perfectly fine and have no idea that food can taste different.

R35, the Brazilian GMO garbage that's imported into the EU is not for human consumption but for animal feed. I'd prefer no GMO animal feed and personally buy as much organic food as possible. And, yes, organic is better for you.

I'm visiting NYC soon and was very apprehensive about the food, but did a big online search and found a bunch of reasonably priced farm-to-table, organic places. goop.com was also very helpful.

Shake Shack is ok, apparently.

Most Americans have clogged sinuses from all the shit in the air and can barely taste anything anyways.

But hey, we're #1! 🇺🇸

We're fine! We send our love!

R45 If you want healthier eating options in NYC there is La Botanist, an organic eatery that originated from Belgium. They now have 5 locations in Manhattan.

MSG is another toxin added to just about all processed foods in America now -- greatly proliferating since the 1990s but almost unknown in our food from the 1970s back. It's even in some ice cream brands now, ffs! It's not the naturally occurring MSG that's dangerous but the lab-created nerve agents with its many names designed to obfuscate..

MSG artificially stimulates your brain receptors, and it disrupts the microbiome in your gut.

It's very hard to find low sodium whatever....I wish there was more effort placed and reducing that as well as sugar.

I'll buy into the unhealthier we are, the more that pharma profits from us.

Thanks r49, we will try them out!

R17: would that be 'Taste of Italy' in Dublin, or some other place? I'm curious. I live in Ireland too.

Or Fallon & Byrne, maybe?

Under capitalism, people care more about corporations succeeding than whether or not people have healthful food. Things aren't going to get better.

R17, R55, how is gay life in Ireland? I'm 50% Irish and want to visit (live in Los Angeles). Also, if you have Irish heritage, can you live their in retirement?

Congrats R24 - I thought that the first “if you don’t like it here move over there” post from some parochial oaf would be in the first ten replies.

Some of you never fail to deliver.

[quote] In Europe you can cut up a chicken and not have to throw away the cutting board, the knife, the gloves you wore to do it, and a without needing to do a deep bleach clean of all kitchen surfaces.

I’ve noticed that! I watch cookery videos on Youtube and the American chefs dress up like Dexter whenever they go within 20 feet of chicken or pork! What’s that all about?

Stupid European shit stirring, the EU allows MSG, there's a limit, and it's so high it's only lip service, so MSG is added to food in Europe. How about the Ukrainian and Russian wheat, you really think it's not GMO?!!! Stupid stupid EuroTrash, trash as in garbage.

You sound angry and hyperactive, r61. You should cut down on additives.

R61 just pounded a Mountain Dew and some Skittles

Makes think of trashy mothers who will act tired because they had to run the kids through the drive thru

[quote]Stupid European shit stirring, the EU allows MSG, there's a limit, and it's so high it's only lip service, so MSG is added to food in Europe. How about the Ukrainian and Russian wheat, you really think it's not GMO?!!! Stupid stupid EuroTrash, trash as in garbage.

GMO is nothing. The problem with US bread production is the addition of potassium bromate, benzoyl peroxide and chemical vitamins added to flour.

I don't get why you wouldn't have to wash surfaces after cutting up chicken in Europe. There's no bacteria?

Isn't/wasn't benzoyl peroxide was the big ingredient in Clearasil?

LA Botanists charges,10 dollars for an appetizer, consisting of 1/2 an 🥑 served w/ seeds and 20 dollars for a pasta entree.

Being ripped off makes me mad.

[quote]I don't get why you wouldn't have to wash surfaces after cutting up chicken in Europe. There's no bacteria?

The funny thing is in the US all chickens are bleached with chlorine. AND the practice is not required to be labeled!

It is a way for big food like Tyson and Perdue to mask the poor quality and freshness.

Chicken in the US is horrible compared to what I was used to in Italy. I do buy so-called "organic" chicken here....but it still sucks.

[quote]I don't get why you wouldn't have to wash surfaces after cutting up chicken in Europe. There's no bacteria?

You might want to read this from the BBC. It explains why in the EU, chicken is not loaded with bacteria, while in the US it is.

"Official figures also show that around 420 deaths a year in the US are linked to salmonella, while in the UK we had no reported deaths from salmonella from 2007 to 2016.

You’re not very bright, are you, R61?

R70 Okay, but you might want to read this:

The UK government allowed food companies behind a major salmonella outbreak to continue supplying supermarkets even after contaminated meat had been linked to the deaths of four people and poisoned hundreds more.

In April 2021, a year into a major nationwide salmonella outbreak, food safety chiefs and George Eustice, then the environment minister, decided not to impose restrictions on the suppliers responsible after noting “a significant improvement” in the situation.

But earlier this year, the Bureau of Investigative Journalism (TBIJ) found that one of the companies continued to produce diseased chicken for months after the decision, exposing consumers to grave risk.

TBIJ also revealed that the meat was infected with dangerous antibiotic resistant “superbugs”. Meat produced by the Polish poultry giant SuperDrob – which supplies frozen chicken products to Asda, Lidl and Iceland – tested positive for salmonella more than a dozen times after the outbreak was first traced to one of its plants in September 2020. Infected products were then detected throughout the following year.

Brexit fallout?

R72 The UK is not Europe.

R74. No. It's governments trying to keep the budget consumers happy so as to avoid a revolution. Just like USA forced meat plant workers to work through covid. You could have bought a quality chicken in UK during the salmonella outbreak but the budget consumer has to buy the cheapest product, in this case cheap industrial chicken from Poland. Plus ca change....

Budget consumers don't need to eat frozen meat products, r76. That particular factory produced frozen chicken products and used farms that were abusing antibiotics. Hence why the EU then tightened the use of antibiotics in animals even further, unlike in the US where they're routinely and legally used to cover up disease. That particular plant had been skirting the rules anyway. Also, it wasn't that widespread a scandal and probably the only incident r73 was able to find.

People don't need to eat shit to eat well and cheaply.

R66: Of course in Europe you would wash a cutting board after its use with chicken, or any food other than say a dry bread where you could simply brush it clean in many cases. The point is that you don't have to irradiate the cutting board and all that may have touched or come near it.

[quote]Also, if you have Irish heritage, can you live their in retirement?

R58: You are entitled to Irish citizenship if you have a parent/s or grandparents who were Irish citizens. Beyond that, no. That entitled you to reside in Ireland as a citizen, however you should investigate issues of healthcare, pensions, and taxation.

That entitles

Yep, Fallon &, Byrne r55. That produce section of theirs is something else.

Soybean oil and corn syrup.

OP is right. One thing I have learned living in Italy is that Americans are not just fat, they are sick. Their bodies reflect it by bloating.

It's not like the Italians are super healthy people. They eat donuts and pastries for breakfast. Most of the population doesn't step foot in a gym. Yet you'd be hard pressed to find a fat kid or any obese adults. The food just isn't poisoned with chemicals - hyper fats and hyper sugars, that the body reacts to through inflammation. You can always spot an American because their bodies are just bloated in ways that we would call fat - big ankles, wrists, faces, necks, bloated bellies. It's a shame really.

Another important factor is well is that when your food actually TASTES like something, has flavor, you don't need a hubcap sized plate of it to be satisfied. You just naturally eat small portions but the taste is rich with flavor. Any restaurants that are giving huge portions are using the cheapest, most tainted ingredients. And 2 pounds of pasta on your plate has zero taste other than salty. The simplest things here, celery, potatoes from the grocery store are fragrant. And unlike any other European city Italians are OBSESSED with the quality and production of their food. Everything comes down to the "allevamento," how something is raised. And you see DOP - Protected Designation of Origin everywhere. BTW, when you are buying cheap Italian wine there, at least always look for DOP somewhere on the bottle, usually up by the neck of the bottle.

The picture below is just some inexpensive ravioli I bought here. But look at the ingredients, not a single chemical - just flour, eggs, butter, DOP gorgonzola, eggs raised on the terra "free range.'

^ Esselunga, Conad, Coop....just regular normal Italian supermarket chains are better than super expensive WholeFoods in the US.

The pasta does contain “aroma naturale” but still, r83, delizioso.

Conad is like the Giant Eagle and Esselunga maybe the Publix. But regular chain grocery stores here and Italy and they products are equal to Eataly but like a half the price if not more. Obviously not everyone can be here. I just wish Americans would wake up and take a look at the food they are eating. That is one of the biggest problems that is making people sick. When I use my VPN to watchin American TV, all I see are terrible process foods and then the drug commercials to cure you from the problems caused by the foods being eaten. It's an endless loop.

I worked in Romania back in 2017, and while people smoked like fiends and ate sweets for days (my crew was puzzled why I never ate dessert), no one was obese. The supermarkets were all Franprix or Carrefour and all had local produce, but 4 aisles of sweet things.

I had to get corn syrup to make some edible black goo, and no supermarket had it available. We had to order it from a specialty industrial baking supplier, and it was bright yellow it literally tasted like corn, and it was disgusting, but it seemed more "pure" than the Amercian corn syrup. So the fact that nobody in Romania baked with corn syrup was interesting.

There was one McDonalds outside of Bucharest, and the Pizza Hut in town was a dine-in, reservation only type place. No other fast food chains were there, and surprisingly some really great restaurants.

The only food I can see the need to put corn syrup in is fudge, otherwise the texture is wrong, not smooth and creamy, but crunchy because the sugar crystallizes. Otherwise, it's disgusting how many foods it finds its way into that have absolutely no business being sweet: Jarred pasta sauce, ketchup, salad dressings.

Thanks Archer Daniels Midland, ConAgra, and government subsidies for corporate farms.

Interestingly enough, r87, there are McDonalds everywhere almost in Italy. Not like America, but they aren't hard to find. There are two in city center Florence, one being 24 hours - which is so unItalian. BUt dammit, if when you have a hankering for some McDs, it's so good. The food is different here because they don't use the same exact ingredients that they can get away with in the states. I know the potatoes they use in the states are some Frankenstein genetically modified ones that are grown for length and eveness of the fries, but no real taste. Because genetically. modified produce is banned here, the fries taste like you're eating a potato. And it's not like America can't be like this. If any place could be the best at it, it would be America. But that shipped sailed a long time ago, when it comes to doing what's best for the consumer and not the bottom line. And you have generations now of people, mine included (Gen X) who have no real idea of what something should really taste like.

[quote] regenerativemc.com

Oh yes of course, the great scientific journal regenerativemc.com. All the brilliant scientists read it and write for it! It’s where they all get their neogen plasma and laser facials. Bring back that youthful self! Emsculpt yourself!! I’m sure everyone in Europe does it!

While under communism or socialism, R57, there is no food.

I don't even see highly processed food as food, yet there are aisles and aisles of it in every supermarket.

Your socialism comment is bullshit, given most of the quality food locality discussed here have more collected the societies and more socialist policies. Unregulated capitalism is the problem.

Actually I just looked up the additives that people mentioned and it's allowed, so fuck off.

R93, are you kidding? They'd allow rat poison if they could get away with it.

[quote]I don't even see highly processed food as food

Speaking of which I saw a commercial for Twizzlers here. I used to eat twizzlers non-stop when I was a kid. What is a twizzler? Is it even food? Is there anything that grows in a twizzler? That is a perfect example. What exactly are you eating when you eat that?

r94 What are you going on about? It's candy! Sugar and flour cooked down into thick glop.

R75 The chicken was from Poland.

There *are* actually Americans who don't eat processed food. You'd think there were none, from the way people talk here.

But is it sugar, r95.? I don;t think so. It comes from genetically modified corn that has been cooked down to High Fructose Corny Syrup in some lab vat. It's not cane sugar. And I am sure any natural part of the corn left it's body very early on in the process as more chemical additives are added.

R97 of course there are Americans who don't eat processed foods. But very few Americans who have access to unmodified foods, genetically processed fruits and vegetables, meats that haven't been injected with hormones or hasn't been feed with genetically modified grain. It's almost impossible to 100% escape it in America at any level, no matter how hard you try, unless you live by some farm that grows its own vegetables and butchers it's own meat.

[quote]MSG is another toxin added to just about all processed foods in America now

Oh for fuck sake, MSG is made from seaweed. It's basically salt. There have been NO PROVEN studies that it's bad for you. You old queens with your old knowledge of nutrition from 70's really need to update your knowledge of what healthy food is.

Every silly queen who says MSG gives them headaches and stomach problems is living in a delusion of outdated scare tactics. Every time they do a double blind study with MSG with people who say they are sensitive to it always fail the double blind test. Placebo effect.

[quote] I know the potatoes they use in the states are some Frankenstein genetically modified ones that are grown for length and eveness of the fries, but no real taste. Because genetically. modified

Now you are just making shit up.

There is nothing wrong with the potatoes, it's how they are cooked that's the issue. But it's FRIED food, what do you expect exactly from fried food?

Our food culture is bad.

We don't have a food culture. We don't give people time to savor and prepare good foods. It's hustle hustle through life and no time to cook.

WE NEED A GOOD FOOD REVOLUTION. BUT WE DON'T KNOW WHAT GOOD LOOKS LIKE. AND THE PEOPLE THAT COME BACK FROM EUROPE TELLING ABOUT IT ARE SO ANNOYING. LIKE THE FUCK AM I GOING TO DO TO TAKE ON AN EVIL CORPORATION ADVERTISING FAT AND SUG TO ME FOR PROFIT!!

SAFER WAY! WHOLE FOODS! BOUGHT BY AMAZON. CORPORATE TAKEOVER EVERYWHERE!

You know what else they do in Europe? The smoke like chimneys. Funny how no one seems to mention that in the over all critique of health. America for the most part have banned smoking in restaurants, bars, commercial buildings, etc. Europe is way behind on this. What good is eating healthy produce and meats if you inhale a pack of cancer sticks 365 days a year?

Indoor public smoking was banned in EU countries between 2005--2010, and countries like Spain (!) have passed laws to ban it in outdoor public spaces like restaurant patios and beaches. They were slower to lock it down then the US, but they're definitely caught up.

Wow, there are some crazy posters here. Many many Americans eat from around the edges of the supermarket. (Fresh fruits and vegetables, fresh meats and seafood, fresh potatoes and sweet potatoes, fresh dairy products}. Why would a person make the assumption that every American eats out for every meal, doesn't know how to cook, or can only eat at home by microwaving a frozen dinner? There are Americans from every single dining culture on the planet, and many of those cultures are not represented by any sort of restaurant. Fast food covers a very limited variety of foods (burgers, hot dogs, Mexican food, and the ubiquitous french fry). Some people on here keep claiming that no one in Europe is obese. Obesity is a first world problem, and it exists on every continent and in every country that has easy access to food. Yes, Americans are well up there, but we live in a country that has lots of arable land and a good climate for growing a wide variety of foods, so we have a surplus and it is thrust upon us at every turn.

The US is far below Micronesia and the Middle East countries by rate of obesity , but higher than Europe. About 1/3 of US citizens are obese. However, the UK is very close to us in obesity rates. In the rest of Europe, about 1/4 of citizens are obese, which is not a vast difference. A few European countries are lower, at about 1/5 of the population being obese, but that's still a large percentage.

True, I know you can’t smoke inside Parisian restaurants either.

People smoke and vape outside; as do tons of Americans. Although American city streets increasingly smell overwhelmingly of weed.

The smoking rate in France is 40% higher than in the U.S.

It's a little under double. France is at 22% and the US is at about 12%. Nordics and Luxembourg smoke less than the US, elsewhere more.

Wtf are you talking about, r103?

The problem with a lot of average fresh meat from the average US supermarket, r105, is that it's pumped full of hormones and antibiotics and then washed down with chlorine to hopefully get rid of any diseases it might be riddled with.

The fresh vegetables are full of pesticides and other chemicals, grown in soil devoid of the essential nutrients and minerals.

You cant read R103? Let me break it down for you. The OP is talking about POISON in American food. The argument of tiny amounts of difference is moot if the population the OP is so enamored with is killing themselves ingesting something that is 100 times worse and known to cause cancer. On top of that, smoking has nutritional value at all. You can live off American bread, you cant live off of cigarettes.

Japan is REALLY bad with the smoking issue. They are worse than Europe. But then, they got that from European culture so it kind of makes sense. Years ago when I was designing a retail space in Japan, the one odd quirk was that cigarettes always had to be right next to candy. Like it was a luxury item, liquor, candy, cigarettes.

My Italian friends were horrified to see cigarettes sold in an American pharmacy (Walgreens Philadelphia). To them, pharmacy + cigarettes made no sense.

And yet Italians smoke quite a bit don't they?

[quote]You know what else they do in Europe? The smoke like chimneys. Funny how no one seems to mention that in the over all critique of health. America for the most part have banned smoking in restaurants, bars, commercial buildings, etc.

Banned in Europe as well.

We have Aldi and we have Erewhon. You can find whatever you want in America. The issue is the average person either wants the junky stuff or doesn’t know better or really healthier stuff costs more in general. I’m no world traveler but from what I’ve heard and seen online vegetables are cheaper and of better quality in places like Europe.

Italy's at about 17% in that link above, which you a less than the EU average and 5% lower than France.

I'm surprised Greg hasn't commented.

Cancer is exacerbated by nutritional deficiencies, so Europeans get less cancer and smoke more cigarettes because their food is better. I have a feeling the anti-smoking loon is lurking.

NEVER hold Italy to anything that is not crooked, ask the Agromafia about that. Stupid European trash.

R120 doesn't even own a passport.

I'll be staying home you cunt, no need to leave the US, we have everything we need here, how about the European British trash stay out of America, but you can't, you love it, and can't wait to visit again. I hear the Brits love their cheap low class Disneyworld vacays.

Thanks R122 for providing humour for the day with your “let’s post like a clueless, parochial, untraveled American oaf” post.

You do know that “European” and “British” aren’t the same thing, don’t you? Of course you don’t, you Neanderthal.

And all from a harmless post about American food which devolved into another DL Euro bashing thread. What is it about “Europe” - which I’m sure that you couldn’t identify on a map - that triggers people like you?

[quote]Cancer is exacerbated by nutritional deficiencies, so Europeans get less cancer and smoke more cigarettes because their food is better.

What a ridiculous statement. More people die of lung cancer than cancer they can directly attribute to their diet.

[quote]You know what else they do in Europe? The smoke like chimneys. Funny how no one seems to mention that in the over all critique of health.

Okay, let's mention it:

The smoking rate in Spain is 27.7% vs 23% in the U.S.

Life expectancy in Spain is 84.5 (8th worldwide) and rising vs. the U.S. at 79.74 (47th worldwide) and falling.

Thread begins and ends with r26, but man, what information here.

DL, I wish I could quit you!

But every time I've flounced out the door (to nobody's notice) promising myself to never return, at thread like this comes along.

R124 please respond to R125

OP here. I'll NEVER stop posting crap premises and then watching fools get all excited by them!!!!!

Please everyone pay attention to R128, and check out the amazing content they’re bringing to this site:

Analyze Nicholas Galitzine's Ass:

“Like an empty hot water bottle cracked up the middle.”

What a laugh riot. HAHAHAHA. Wow, so witty!

For the dude at R101, of course there is nothing wrong with potatoes. But there is A LOT wrong with the potatoes McDonald's uses in the United States for their fries. They can't even uses these potatoes in the rest of the world because they are banned. But they are A OK for the States where there is no regulation against the process of how they are grown.

What people aren't grasping is that the OP's comment is not just about Junk Food, or just about Processed Foods. The overall food supply, the stuff you shop around the periphery in the supermarket in the United States, is poisoned, toxic. It is very hard for the average American to escape toxic meat, hormone filled milk, pesticide ridden vegetables genetically modified to look perfect with have zero taste. Americans have no idea where their meat is coming from or how it's been process. And why do you think there is a contamination outbreak, people dying from stuff like arugula or mixed greens every other month? People dying from eating packaged hamburgers? The food supply in the United States of the most basic ingredients is bad compared to other first world nations, and even to some second and third world places.

But as the poster above complaining about all the people going on and on about how good it is in Europe is right - unfortunately there is nothing you can do about it at this point. Your food is making you sick - IBS, acid reflux, colitis, hormone imbalances, cancer.

MSG - which is added to almost everything now - disguises the FACT that our processed foods would taste like the GARBAGE it is otherwise. Plus it's a fucking nerve agent. Photos of Americans from the early 80s back show how much healthier we looked (and were) before this poisonous additive became ubiquitous.

Can’t wait to hear the fallout from Bill Gate’s Apeel over the next few decades. The media is desperate to tell you it’s safe which is the first red flag.

It's interesting watching the vegan fad here in the States, all the fake milks, cheeses, meats, etc. All that is super processed as well.

R133 In the EU, Bill Gate's Apeel shit is only allowed on fruit with peels that are not eaten.

In the US, it is approved for ALL fresh fruit and vegetables without exception.

BTW: it can't be washed off.

Yes OP it’s poison. Dont eat it. Problem solved.

R135 so basically forget digesting any of the beneficial elements or nutrients from any fruit or vegetables anymore.

DO NOT EAT APEEL PRODUCTS! It is slow poisoning.

This pretty much sums up the US as far as health is concerned...

It doesn't wash off? Don't tell me. It didn't go through FDA approval.

Psycho cunt Bill Gates wasn’t satisfied to just poison the people who eat Lucky Charms and Happy Meals, he had to find a way to get the people who choose to be healthy too.

I just opened a package of chicken (Bell & Evans) that said it was not washed with chlorinated water (in the US).

The MGS lecturer: As a kid, I did get headaches from foods with MSG. No, it was not in my mind, because the headaches preceded discovering that the food that gave me headaches had MSG in it (the doctor had me look for it). Once I eliminated the things that had MSG, I had no more headaches.

R50 Madison Square Garden?

There are individuals with sensitivities to MSG. The aggregate in research doesn't capture these outliers.

The British and Europeans are one and the same, you rotten toothed cunts are not any better and are even worse, slavers and colonists alike. Go suck Putin's slimy old dick, doesn't he own half of London? You're still fucking over the world.

[quote] Oh for fuck sake, MSG is made from seaweed.

Wikipedia says:

As of 2016, most MSG worldwide is produced by bacterial fermentation in a process similar to making vinegar or yogurt. Sodium is added later, for neutralization. During fermentation, Corynebacterium species, cultured with ammonia and carbohydrates from sugar beets, sugarcane, tapioca or molasses, excrete amino acids into a culture broth from which L-glutamate is isolated. Kyowa Hakko Kogyo (currently Kyowa Kirin) developed industrial fermentation to produce L-glutamate.[38]

The conversion yield and production rate (from sugars to glutamate) continues to improve in the industrial production of MSG, keeping up with demand.[36] The product, after filtration, concentration, acidification, and crystallization, is glutamate, sodium, and water.

A little bit off topic but can someone explain to me why it's nutritious to eat the chicken's meat but not its white-green feces that fall out of its cloaca? 🐔

With the smoking debate: is it possible that U.S. cigarettes & vapes are worse shit in it than the European counterparts? Hence the smoking Euros living longer than the Americans?

Well Italy has one of the oldest populations on earth, up there with Japan. And I am sure more of those older folks smoked than not.

Italy has also banned lab grown meat.

"Novel foods such as laboratory-produced “meats” risk undermining Italian culture, identity and civilization, Italy’s minister for food sovereignty and agriculture, Francesco Lollobrigida, warned on Thursday."

"Speaking to POLITICO as the Italian parliament passed Europe’s first legislation banning lab-cultured meat, Lollobrigida said the measures were about “defending work, environment, culture and identity — which are rooted in food quality,” and that they were intended to “defend our civilization against a model driven by delocalization and long supply chains.”"

I eat sunflower seeds. Simple roasted sunflower seed. Seeds and salt.

But the supermarket was out of the usual brand I buy.

So I bought "Planters Dry Roasted Sunflower Kernels". That's what it says on the front label.

I should have known better. On the back in fine print: : Sunflower Seed Kernels, Gelatin, Sea Salt, Sugar, Cornstarch, Maltodextrin, Corn Syrup Solids...

I should have known better.

Put the pipe down R145 - you’re making a fool of yourself.

As always.

I think that's why so many people have switched to a gluten-free diet: regular flour is now full of crap that people can't digest.

I notice GI trouble when I eat certain ultra-processed foods. The last Big Mac I ate was years ago because it caused a GI disaster.

I think all the points about American food are well-taken. I started reading up on nutrition 50 years ago and haunted health food stores in high school.

--I have always shopped the perimeter of the grocery store, gone to farmers markets and avoided processed foods.

-- I make my own bread with my bread machine and my hummus from dried garbanzos. For cereal, I steam steel-cut oats. I make several vegetable-dense soups each week. I try to never have an empty pantry or fridge. I can easily do dinner with grilled or sauteed vegetables, a whole grain or pasta or some sort of egg dish.

--I rarely eat out and never eat fast food. I try hard to eliminate food waste by sharing food with neighbors or composting or juicing or dehydrating produce. I grow herbs but don't garden unfortunately.

--I don't know how much i spend each week on food but it's not a burden or hugely expensive..

I've been doing this so long it feels like second nature. I can't move to Europe but we can all exert some control over what we eat.

Pesticides are not allowed to be used on US foods within a certain amount of time before harvest. There are a lot of strict regulations regarding the use of pesticides and crops are routinely monitored for them. Pesticides were embraced by ALL farmers world-wide starting in the 1950s. Only after Silent Spring and some other books of a similar ilk came out in the 1960s did farmers and national regulatory bodies in various nations begin to question their indiscriminate use. However, like PFOAs, many pesticides are practically permanent in the environment, they degrade so slowly. There are still DDT residues in the bodies and bloodstreams of every human being on the planet and it was banned in 1972. Europe currently has more stringent regulations regarding allowable pesticide residues than the US, but trust me that they are still being used there. Most pesticides are hormone disruptors, so the real risk is not so much cancers as fertility, which has been declining worldwide for quite some time (both male testosterone production and female hormones that stimulate ovulation).

We no use MSG 🤡

[QUOTE]There are still DDT residues in the bodies and bloodstreams of every human being on the planet and it was banned in 1972. Europe currently has more stringent regulations regarding allowable pesticide residues than the US, but trust me that they are still being used there.

Tell us why we should "trust" you.

r157 You absolutely should NOT trust me. You should inform yourself by reading the original documents outlining pesticide use and regulations in the EU - and I'm providing a link for that below.

MMMMMMM McDonald's fires. If you want to get rid of those, you will have to do so from my cold dead hands.

So basically, Americans should just live off tap water. Oh wait, that's bad too.

R158 - ABW (anything but Wikipedia)

NYC tap water is very good. Or at least it was when I lived there.

Basically basically basically!

r161 You're welcome.

Marie Callender's Razzleberry Pie.

This was available at one of the major Australian supermarkets for a while years ago. It was so fucking good, but doesn't modified corn starch mean high fructose corn syrup?

The 2009 directive is under constant revision and tightening, r164, and there are various other safeguards in place for food and agriculture. Even your Department of Agriculture is aware of that and is always trying to find ways around EU legislation and directives to export products with lower levels of protection to the EU.

[quote]A key commitment of the European Commission’s F2F and Biodiversity Strategies is a 50 percent reduction of the use and risk of pesticides by 2030. The Strategies aim to protect and restore biodiversity and make the European agrifood sector more sustainable through pesticide reduction targets and wider adoption of integrated pest management (IPM) practices. As part of the F2F Strategy, the Commission proposed several initiatives that link to EU pesticide regulations supported by recommendations from the completed regulatory fitness and performance check of the EU legislation on plant protection products and pesticide residues, known as REFIT, including a revision of the Sustainable Use of Pesticides Directive (SUD). Please find here a link to the GAIN report on the Pesticide Initiatives in the Farm to Fork Strategy.

[quote]SUR

[quote]The European Commission’s proposal, released on June 22, 2022, for a new Regulation on the sustainable use of Plant Protection Products (SUR) introduces rules encouraging the reduction of pesticides through integrated pest management and alternatives to chemical pesticides. The European Commission considers the SUR to be a crucial tool to achieving the targets outlined in the European Green Deal and the Farm to Fork Strategy as it puts forward legally binding pesticide reduction targets to reduce the use and risk of chemical pesticides by 50% by 2030. The proposal is part of the Commission’s nature restoration package, which also includes a proposal to restore damaged ecosystems and bring nature back across Europe.

[quote]The proposal aims to reduce the risks from – and impacts of – pesticide use on human health and the environment by setting pesticide reduction targets and to promote the use of Integrated Pest Management (IPM) and alternatives to chemical pesticides. It sets out requirements for the National Action Plans (NAPs), IPM, sales of plant protection products, training and certification of professional users, pesticide application equipment etc.

[quote]Maximum Residue Limits (MRLs): Regulation 396/2005

[quote]European Parliament and Council Regulation 396/2005 harmonizes all MRLs in the EU on food or feed of plant and animal origin. Pesticide MRLs for processed or composite products are based on the MRLs of the raw agricultural ingredients. A general default MRL of 0.01 mg/kg applies where a pesticide is not specifically mentioned.

India is far more advanced when it comes to food regulation. America can take a leaf out of their book.

Is American food poison? I dont know, we dont eat Horse Meat like they do in Europe. They dont see the difference between a cow and a horse. Even though cows were bread for meat and horse were not.

You’re not very bright, are you, R168?

[QUOTE]doesn't modified corn starch mean high fructose corn syrup?

No, r165. Modified corn starch has no flavor and is used as a thickening agent in all sorts of different foods, including savory stuff like soups and gravies. It's a standard pie ingredient for home cooks. The thickened mixture is clear. Regular sugar is the sweetener in the pie (which sounds quite good).

R168 A different animal doesn't make meat poisonous. And there are horses bread for food. It's not like they are taking old races horses out to eat. In Verona Italy, there is cavallo and asino (donkey) in the super market. I have had it in restaurants before and it tastes like beef the way they braise it for hours. And the portions are so small they must kill four horses a year to supply the demand.

Thanks, r170. We only bought the pie twice, but each time devoured it quite quickly - which is unusual. As good as it was, I was kind of relieved when it disappeared as it was so addictive.

In my county the only ones who eat horse me are DOGS!

I'm on another continent and I love how bonded we are in so many ways.

[quote]A different animal doesn't make meat poisonous.

Who said anything about being poisonous? Horses have been bread for labor and are assorted companionship because they are loyal and often bond with their owners such as riding them racing them, and long treks in the desert and mountains. Cows are not. They are bread for milk and slaughter.

^ I never use my registered name before, but it happened

People stop, JUST STOP using "bread" to describe their feed and how they're utilitarian donkeys. Bread us horror unbalanced food for many.

English, please.

Which part, r178?

It’s “bred”, not “bread”, in this context, unless one is illiterate.

R175, R168 begins his post with saying:

[quote]Is American food poison? I dont know, we dont eat Horse Meat like they do in Europe.

It would seem HE is the one who is equating horses with being poisonous, if you follow the logic of his reasoning - to answer your question. Horses are beast of burden, they have always been. They are not bred for companionship, even IF we had made them our companions. But they are wild and still need to be broken. They aren't natural born companions that attach to their human owners.

Cultures have different views when it comes to animals, the ones they eat and the ones they chose as pets. Certain cultures would be appalled that we eat cows. Pigs are some of the most intelligent and sensitive animals, yet our meat departments of full of their flesh. You have people with pigs, rabbits, fish even ducks as pets. But we eat them without hesitation. So I would take this into consideration when passing judgement on cultures that eat horse, cultures which raise them as solely work animals and food.

Yes, OP. And if the price is right, scientists can be bought to downplay the true harms of the garbage that is being sold in American grocery stores.

I was astounded when the NY Times reported on what r182 posts and it was no big deal to anybody.

True scandals, which is what that is, have lost their power to shock.

The quality of food in the United States has been degraded dramatically in the last 45 years yet food prices in the United States are far higher than they are in the United Kingdom – I wish someone would explain to me how and why?

R184 Monopolization of the big corporations and gouging the consumers.

I think everyone should eat horse instead of pig.

List of hormones given to beef cattle in non organic production might just be a factor

So much bullshit on here about the Europeans and they're food processing, except it's all fake and corrupt, the EU is a corrupt organization, and only gives lip service and let's the graft happen, look it up.

I remember looking in a Life magazine from the 60s and there was an ad for the sugar industry with a picture of a teen doing the frug and it said something like "Sugar, it's what gives her energy" Were they really that hard up that they needed to advertise?

Found it. Notice how it's not for a specific brand of sugar, just sugar in general. I guess sweet n low had just come out.

[quote]In Europe you can cut up a chicken and not have to throw away the cutting board, the knife, the gloves you wore to do it, and a without needing to do a deep bleach clean of all kitchen surfaces.

So can Americans. Where are you seeing this? I cut up chicken all the time and simply rinse my utensils and don't wear gloves.

R191, I how for yoursake you are doing more than just rinsing your hands with water after handling uncooked chicken. I hope for your sake, some soap is involved.

I wash like normal. I'm not soaking in bleach like Ms. Melodrama says they see.

Ah ok r93, I see you're just square and can't suss out hyperbole when written.

R194 what I see is shit-stirring.

[quote]So much bullshit on here about the Europeans and they're food processing, except it's all fake and corrupt, the EU is a corrupt organization, and only gives lip service and let's the graft happen, look it up.

Not Italy r188. One thing I have learned living outside of the States is that not everyone is in it for themselves. I am not a Pollyanna in thinking there is no corruption anywhere. But one of the biggest reliefs living in Italy is knowing that whether or not it works all the time, there are agencies actually involved in the welfare and health of its citizens. It is very serious business. Food is taken very seriously, and it's not all about profit. The labelling of origination alone tells you exactly what area of the country, of the world all of your food is coming from. There are nationally protected and highly regulated types of food or dishes that can only come from a certain region. Like it's illegal to put Reggiano Parmagiano on a cheese if it's not made in Parma, Reggio Emilia, Modena or Bologna by milk from a specific type of cow. It's very hard for us Americans to grasp because we are suspect of everyone and everything. We are VERY jaded, and rightfully so, with the overwhelming sense that no one with power to do anything gives a fuck about us.

They might be lax on a lot of things, but Italians do not fuck around with food. There would be riots in the streets.

R196 - "does not compute" - Amurcan Fuck Yeah!

How does R196 not compute? It's an article on Italian food safety.

[quote]I am not a Pollyanna in thinking there is no corruption anywhere.

The thing about the US is that corruption is legalized. That's what lobbies are in the US: legalized corruption.

The enforcement mechanisms around Reggiano Parmigiano are trade protectionism to guarantee exclusivity of a product with worldwide demand. It has nothing to do with health. They don't want to dilute the brand so they can charge a premium price abroad.

The Italian mob controls the entire olive oil industry, and they purposefully doctor their oil with garbage oils mixed in to maximize profits. Perhaps this applies only to exported olive oil, that part I’m not sure about, but if not, then the Italian food industry has some issues too, though maybe not on the scale of America. I do think their produce is perhaps the finest quality on earth, so there’s that.

Most farm animals in the US are mass produced without exposure to roam or go outside for light, fresh air, or to graze. They are basically captured inside in confined space with little to no place to move, and receive hormones to get bigger faster. They tend to eat feces and eat GMO grain products and that is why they have high rates of diseases and require antibiotics. Even after they are killed and cut up, their meat is very susceptible to bacteria and other toxins, so it has become standard practice to wash the meat in bleach. Even after the bleaching there is a likelihood bacteria such as salmonella has survived, which is why they recommend you wash your preparation surfaces, and cook the meat well done.

[quote]The Italian mob controls the entire olive oil industry

No it does not.

There was a scandal years ago with some manufactures. You think Italy let it go?

There are tight controls today.

But what if the meat is labeled organic? Am I overpaying for antibiotic-filled meats? I can’t keep up.

[quote]I think everyone should eat horse instead of pig.

Horse Bacon? No thanks. I like the B in my BLT not Trigger meat.

Can they even make bacon from any other meat? I know there is turkey bacon, but it's not the same.

[quote] There was a scandal years ago with some manufactures. You think Italy let it go? There are tight controls today.

NOPE! It's still a problem.

"A probe into counterfeit oils has led to 11 arrests and the seizure of more than 260,000 liters of olive oil."

Turkey Bacon SUCKS!

Don't even bother with that. I would rather go without. It does not taste good, sorry. It's like trying to tell me a vegan burger made from mushrooms is just like beef. No it's not, you are not fooling anyone. Not saying you cant eat them, but be honest, it's a vegetable patty.

I think there's a beef bacon, r206, but I've never tried it.

The Australian government makes sure iodine is added to most types of bread - not that we eat bread more than a handful of times a year - and we have iodised salt.

MSG is rife and can be bought by the container in some Asian supermarkets. It's kept in the spice section and is called all kinds of weird names on the front label - you have to look at the back label to see what it actually is.

[quote] So many Americans go to Europe and other places then get over their digestive issues and lose weight.

Said no one ever.

American chicken and beef are banned in many European countries. I can't say I blame them.

Niman Ranch for pork. Pine Manor for chicken. I don't do beef that often. but I like Linz Heritage. All this goes on sale.

Yes, it would be great if I could grab anything at the grocery but I don't. I watch sales carefully and freeze.

R207NOPE! It's still a problem. "A probe into counterfeit oils has led to 11 arrests and the seizure of more than 260,000 liters of olive oil."

Are you able to read? I posted about an article the same issue at the link at R203. The point is controls are ver strict now. And countries are working together.

Here's a test by Epicurious of 100 Olive Oils:

^sorry for the typos....was rushing

White middle class people, especially women reject the definitive science that has proven "organic" produce is no more nutritious than any other non-organic produce. They KNOW what they believe and they believe the the organic hype!

They also believe everything else is full of pesticides, oblivious to the fact that organic produce can be grown with pesticides- they just need to be on the approved list, which any lobbyist worth his salt can likely accomplish for you!

In this way they are exactly like die hard Trumptards, convinced that Donald is a successful businessman and expert President!

R215 I have been cooking...nearly every day.... for the last 50 years. I know produce.

I always buy the organic onions and carrots and my local supermarket. They're nicer.

I prefer locally grown seasonal fruit and vegetables. If it's organic all the better.

There are certain agricultural products I know are much safer and healthier to eat organic to avoid the known exposure to toxins and pesticides of the conventional versions.

I was at our local Coop in line behind a guy who had the sorriest looking assortment of organic vegetables. They looked limp and dried out. I marveled at the prices as the clerk checked them. He actually paid more for the veggies than the little chateaubriand that followed them down the belt. I was amused.

[quote]In this way they are exactly like die hard Trumptards, convinced that Donald is a successful businessman and expert President!

Bud, when you have to mention Trump even in a post about organic produce, you've got problems.

Yes you asshead euro garbage, you think the people that caused the problem actually solved it? Fox/henhouse, Americans aren't that Stupid cunt, and you write like a cunt, you have been busted.

If it is in Italy, it is all over the crooked EU too, it runs deep

R220 is so stupid that he thinks that anybody who disagrees with him on any subject is a European garbage cunt, or something.

You’re still insulting people when you have nothing lucid to say, aren’t you, R220?

Put the pipe down, R220, and pour yourself something delightful from your box of wine. You are beyond pitiful.

R220 That article is absurd. The response from one of the readers is right on:

"I am sorry but I find this article quite insulting for the whole Italian food industry, written like this it looks like just an attempt to discredit a very strong global player. You throw some numbers here and there and few examples and you imply that it is the norm in the whole country. You read the article and looks like every business is a fraud, run by mafia with counterfeit products. Really? How could be Italy a top food producer and always recognized as the top in terms of quality across the globe?"

"Having said that, where there is excellency there is money to be made, and where there is money there will be always crime, scams, malpractices, this is valid in Italy and in any other country across the globe. It is valid for food, for fashion cars and many other products. Governments eventually fix it.

"An example: Germany had one of the biggest scandals in the car industry (emission frauds). Government discovered it and fixed it. German cars are great! Just google any country and you will find tons of scams and frauds in any sector of the economy."

"A final suggestion to the author: go and visit a few of the thousands food companies in Italy and you will see the passion, hard work, honesty of the people behind it. This is the reason why Italy is always at the top in this sector."

God the Europeans, and that includes the Russian abetted Brits, are the most smarmy cunts that ever has walked the earth. And the EU gets corn from Spain which grows GMO corn, two faced liars. And also Brazil which also grows GMO corn. How does that work? Special GMO corn I guess? Never believe dirty Europeans.

R223 The world's healthiest countries:

British beef was banned in the US for years and only recently lifted the ban. Why I don't know, our beef is superior and there is still the fear of mad cow from dirty British cattle. I think it was under trump of course, a white country got special treatment.

And if you think the dirty EU isn't importing GMO corn, you are stupid, see the link, and the EU gets corn and god knows what else from Ukraine Russia and Brazil, all completely GMO free haha and probably pissed on by the Pope!

You’re really triggered by “Europeans”, aren’t you, R223?

Of course you’re the sort of American who believes that there are three countries in the world : USA (#1 and don’t you forget it), Europe (anywhere not America and a bunch of cunts) with what ever is left over classified as the Third World.

Are you a typical product of the American public school system, R223? Of course I assume that you never graduated.

European here. My girlfriend has an autoimmune condition (thyroid) which means she has to be very careful about the kinds of wheat and breads she consumes. When reading about the subject, every book or article she has read written by Americans - including doctors and scientists - made the point that American wheat is so much more processed than European wheat and that's why when Americans with autoimmune/gut/thyroid issues come to Europe and eat bread or pasta here their gut responds so much better. We're going to the US for a holiday this month and have made a big effort to search out places up eat that use sourdough or good wheat and products with good farming practices.

During covid when there was less decent flour available, there was a big debate in Italy whether to use Canadian flour to make pasta or not because it would degrade the pasta. I think they decided against.

The point, by the way, isn't that Europe is "better", but that American farming and food processing practices are complete shit.

R168 R171 Bred. Past tense of breed.

Look out for BHT. It’s in a lot more foods than the ones mentioned.

Many of the additives they use in USA are banned in Europe. We basically don't have GMOs as they're banned here.

Americans are shocked when they come to Europe and eat fruits and veggies here, they say they taste better than American fruits and veggies.

“Fruit and vegetables”, you mean, R231?

R232 Yes. Sorry, English in my second language.

I'm a European visiting NYC right now and the food in even the so-called foodie places is of very poor standard. I did have an amazing milk shake in Creamline in Chelsea Market, which works with small local dairy farmers, although the burger (beef supposedly from small farms that don't use hormones, etc.) was less great. The hot dog at Dickson's Farmstand Meats (also hormone free, etc.) in Chelsea Market was great but the accompanying bread, coleslaw, etc. quite poor. I had a very expensive meal at a vegan restaurant that farms most of its own vegetables and they were good but the design of the dishes was a bit too elaborate. Unfortunately they also used those plastic oishee strawberries which are meant to be amazing but look and taste like plastic.

It's also very expensive, even in the supposedly less expensive places, partly because of the dumb tips. A basic ramen meal for two in an out of the way place ended up at 70 dollars, whereas I can get ramen for two off Oxford Street in London, with a much better quality and tastier ramen, wide range of teas (there was only one in NYC), cleaner environment, more pleasant atmosphere and better service for under 50 pounds including 12% service charge.

Weird American Oishii strawberries. Even the supposedly non-crap stuff has a weird texture and piss-poor flavour. Because they still approach farming as a factory production belt.

R234 I know you must have paid out of your ass at Chelsea market. How much was that milkshake, $10? How much was the hotdog?

R233 if English is indeed your second language, don't pay R232 any mind. Everybody and their mother in America says "fruitS and vegetables" even if it's incorrect. If he is indeed right, I have been saying it wrong for years. But no one even cares and actually might question Fruit and Vegetables.

Honestly I've never noticed any great difference in the produce while visiting Europe even from farmers markets.

R236, burger, chips and milkshake for 2 came to 60 dollars at Creamline, which didn't request me to give a tip when I paid with my card. This was less than the ramen place, which requested a tip.

Dig Inn (or just Dig, I'm not sure which) was pretty good for a fast food place (aside from the mac and cheese side that was in my gf's bowl).

see Fairy Bread thread OP.

R229 I still remember my high school chemistry teacher warning us about the dangers of BHA and BHT and the known links to colon and other cancers. And this was back in the 1970s.

[quote] burger, chips and milkshake for 2 came to 60 dollars at Creamline

OMG. When I lived in NYC it was a ripoff towards the end (1995-2021). But that is just beyond the pale, honestly. I know that is the going rate. But I could get an entire three course meal and bottle of wine for two for 60 bucks in Italy - at a restaurant where your food is brought to you.

I remember when I first started going to the Chelsea Market in like 1996, it was literally a market where you bought food and the Food Network studios were there - Fat Witch, AMies, Buon'Italian, Manhattan Fruit Exchange, Sarabeths. Fun fact - I was an intern on the pilot episode of Sex and the City and their office were in the Chelsea Market. I think that might have even been before the FoodNetwork, or around the same time.

[quote] always buy the organic onions and carrots and my local supermarket. They're nicer.

"They're nicer". Wow. Like I said, white people are swayed by how they feel about "organic" produce, and reject ALL science that informs us that an onion is an onion.

I dunno. Maybe there's something in this Frankenstein food that has the American Empire at everyone else's throat.

[quote]"They're nicer". Wow. Like I said, white people are swayed by how they feel about "organic" produce, and reject ALL science that informs us that an onion is an onion.

As I said: "I always buy the organic onions and carrots and my local supermarket. They're nicer." Juicier. Crisper. More aromatic. I cook. I know. This is the case with what is available at my local supermarket, compared to the non-organic.

And no, you're wrong. An onion is an onion? Go to Italy and try a "cipolle di tropea".

Also, please explain the comment: "white people are swayed by how they feel about "organic" produce,"

Where does that leave Michelle Obama?

Is the argument about fast food and prepared foods being poison or that raw foodstuffs are of inferior quality and overpriced? Or that organic produce, dairy, meat, grains and carefully sourced fish are a waste of money? Or that Europeans pay less for better quality food?

If I prepare my own food from fresh and organic sources, am I still being poisoned?

The argument is R245, in America is that it is hard to find food - fast food, prepared food, store bought whole foods - that aren't poisoned in some way with chemicals, additives, hormones, genetically modified. And with the shifting of FDA goal posts for what can be sold as Organic, All Natural, it's hard to know exactly what you are getting. If ALL of your sources are farm stand quality, small local producers for your meat and vegetables, you should be OK. But that is a far cry from what anyone can reasonably do who is either on a budget, has time constraints, or doesn't have access to such places. I mean even in America store bought lettuce has been known to kill people. Actually it seems to be the main culprit. Or people going brain dead after eating prepackaged hamburger patties. It's a minefield.

To be fair, lettuce is not what is killing people. It is contamination from salmonella, which is found in the water used to wash bagged lettuce which is usually the culprit. The main supplier of greens are large farm consortiums in the Salinas valley of California, a semi-arid area, and there are large cattle farms and feed lots near enough the produce farms to lead to possible cross-contamination of water sources. The US has a very active surveillance program for tracing food poisoning and food-borne illnesses. In places where human waste is commonly used as fertilizer and soil conditioner (such as in China), there is no such system, so things like hepatitis which can easily be transmitted this way is not surveilled. Long story short, thorough washing of vegetables is always warranted, no matter where in the world someone lives, unless a person plans on cooking the vegetables thoroughly. Cooking partly exists to kill pathogens in food and has always filled that function for the past 10,000 years.

Consumer Report magazine cover story right now is on our POISONOUS food. I think we have solid answer.

R236 The objection was to the word “veggies,” which is cloying infant-speak. R233 adults say vegetables. Or, if you want to put Brit-spin on it, “veg.”

R249, the TMJ poster boy.

We're doing fine here in America, y'all! Someone pass me the apple pie.

Lithe American teens, 60 years ago. Something has gone off the rails.

I don't know how many times I have to say it and show it before it sinks in . Obesity is a WORLD-WIDE problem right now. Common first-world rates of obesity range from 25-35% across Europe, the Americas, and even higher in the Middle East. No one should be proud of a 25% obesity rate and pointing fingers at how much worse things are in the US - because obesity at these rates is abysmal. Even in relatively poor countries, obesity rates of 10-15% are common. Much worse than a simple problem of pesticide contamination, most of the world has access to too many calories, and exercises far too little.

You keep saying that R253, but if you actually travel around Europe, you don't see fat people who look like the Average Americans. I live in Europe now and you can always spot an American. It isn't just necessarily fat, but they definitely look swollen, bloated. When I travel back home to Ohio, everyone I see would be considered obese everywhere else.

I think Americans have come to think of someone obese as 400lbs when in fact, the definition of obese is much lower than that. So when a country says they have a problem with obesity, their obese population would just be seen as a little overweight, if not normal in the States. Fat Italian teens are rare.

BMI is a terrible, oversimplified measure that discourages overweight people from taking on weight loss, but body-bullying DL just won't have it.

TL;DR: It's complicated...

I stayed three months in Dallas away from France for a job assignment in the early noughties and in three months I put on 20 pounds. I'm used to gain up to ten pounds around winter time but twenty pounds was a first for me. At the time I chalked it up to the oh so tasty food we were given by the client. There was also the size of the portions wherever I went eating in the evening, which were about 50 to 100% larger than what you would be given in a French restaurant and since I had been taught as a child to never leave any food in my plate (while some poor people are starving around the world!!!), I had to eat it all like a good boy even though I already had sufficient as the saying goes around here.

And then there was the horrendous fact that there wasn't any place where I could walk: not in Las Colinas where I was staying, not in Irving where I was working, and only a tiny bit along Cedar Springs when toggling between the few venues they had there. There was a restaurant across the street from my hotel but I just couldn't walk to it as the street between us was a six lane wide highway with no crossover and I was not suicidal. So I had to jump into my car to cover the minuscule distance. On the other hand, in Paris I walk all the time. So I think it's not just the poisonous food, the hormones, the antibiotics, the pink slime, the GMOs, but it's very much multi-factorial.

And by the way, it took me three months to shed the 20 pounds after I resumed my regular Parisian life. Meanwhile my partner kept taking jabs at my "Universal Studios Silhouette", a reference to the fact that we never saw such a concentration of morbidly obese people than in Universal Studios in Hollywood, and the fatter the Fraus were, the more likely they wore shocking pink leggings, which obviously is a huge fashion faux pas in Paris, where the only color fat people are allowed to wear is black.

R241, on the flight back from NYC I thought I'd watch Sex and the City on the in-flight entertainment, seeing as I know the city a little now. I had to give up after about 3 minutes of the first episode as I was laughing so much. Thought it would be best to watch in private at home.

Yeah, 60 dollars for a basic meal for two is a lot for a fast-food place. As tourists who'd given ourselves a fairly generous budget and wanted to try different things, we weren't so bothered, but it's crazy expensive for the locals.

We did visit Perry St, to see Carrie's stoop, and then traipsed up to the Stonewall Inn. The wealth disparity in just a few metres of road is pretty striking.

R256, food deserts in the US are a big part of the problem. New York has lots of restaurants of all kinds, but the only supermarkets I saw were Wholefoods, a Trader Joes and a couple of Gristedes. In NYC a lot of people are very slim (i.e. normal human), but, aside from having to walk a lot in the city, they are obviously mostly middle-class high achievers who work out a lot. There's a clear class and race difference.

[quote]We did visit Perry St, to see Carrie's stoop, and then traipsed up to the Stonewall Inn. The wealth disparity in just a few metres of road is pretty striking.

Having lived in that area, the funny thing is that Sarah Jessica Parker's real brownstone is literally around the corner from that stoop, but none of the tourist know. It's like 10 Charles St. or something like that.

There are two things at play when it comes to gigantic Americans. The lack of exercise and huge portions makes them fat. The poisonous food the OP mentions makes them bloat, inflame, swell up and get sick. Americans aren't just fat, they are swollen from all of that shit passing through their digestive track that isn't food and causing allergic reactions.

^if you take out all the chemicals that average Americans habitually eat, at no great fault of their own - it's just the food supply is completely tainted - you would see a great deflation. Yes there would still be fat people, just not gigantic. And people wouldn't be as addicted to the hyper sugars and hyper fats that are designed to make. people crave more.

I see a lot of fat Hispanic children. I live near a very large barrio area. I'm curious if they are as fat in their native countries.

r259 r260 You made some very strong assertions there with a great deal of authoritative heft. But where's your evidence?

What do you want me to say R262? You want a link? What do you want?

here is one r262.

[quote]The standard American diet is pro-inflammatory because it’s rich in ultra-processed foods and red meat, and low in fruits and vegetables.

[quote]All processed foods can cause inflammation. They can alter the bacteria that live in our gut, and that alteration has the ability to interact with our immune system and eventually trigger it in a way that leads to chronic inflammation.

R262

Popular American Foods Making Your Inflammation Worse

[quote]Our modern food supply in this country is laden with packaged processed foods that are typically high in added sugar and devoid of nutrients. Pair a junky diet with a sedentary lifestyle and an abundance of stress and it's no wonder that, over time, our bodies progress into a state of chronic inflammation that can cause a metabolic storm and make us sick.

R262: Does Inflammation Cause Weight Gain?

[quote]inflammation can contribute to temporary weight gain. This is often due to water retention and swelling rather than fat accumulation.

R262 Americans aren't as big as houses JUST because they can't put their forks down or push away from the table. Yes the portions are too big, but as the OP says, the food supply is poisoned.

Yet when I, an American, went to France I didn't lose an ounce despite walking miles every day. I saw plenty of plump old people and women there, but no fat young men. They were all either muscular or wiry. It seemed like that in Manhattan too. In my small town I see a lot of mooby, pot-bellied guys. Even here in the country I don't see many morbidly obese people. I think most of them are shut-ins.

It is extremely difficult for the average American to avoid eating food contaminated in some way. Not only do you have to be super vigilant, it is also very cost prohibitive. And I am not just talking about the people who eat pop-tarts for breakfast, or dominos pizza for dinner. Even very popular, expensive dining establishments you see in every town in America - the popular steak house, Mexican restaurants, even very fancy places - you have no idea where they are sourcing their meats, their foods. Unless you are growing it yourself, or live next to the farm that is, you really have no idea where your food is coming from, where it's been processed, who has been handling it. And when I say contaminated, I am not just talking about getting sick. I am talking about routinely eating things that your body will react to and keep it in a constant state of inflammation.

Oatmeal and a berry smoothie for breakfast. Vegetable soup or salad with some protein and a fruit for lunch. Fish or chicken and a starch and a vegetable for dinner. Boring but healthy and affordable. Not a global solution but you will be well-nourished and avoid inflammatory food.

When you eat out, make sure it's a celebration of health, not gluttony.

[quote} I see a lot of fat Hispanic children. I live near a very large barrio area. I'm curious if they are as fat in their native countries.

This is their native country.

None of the links above regarding inflammation say that American foods are poisoned. What they all say is that the typical American DIET of ultra refined and processed foods causes inflammation - which is a point I don't disagree with. But ALL of the articles above basically say that if a person stops eating ultra-refined and processed foods, and instead eats whole grains and a lot of fresh fruits and vegetables, inflammation will be drastically reduced. No argument there either. It's common sense. But that's not what many of the posters who are posting such articles are saying.

There are plenty of slim and healthy Americans - people who are careful about what they eat. Otherwise 100% of Americans would be obese. I'm in my 60s and my BMI is about 24. I don't have go to Europe to eat to maintain a stable weight. I'm able to find plenty of nutritious low-inflammation and moderate calorie food right here in the US. There are also lots of obese people walking around. It is what they CHOOSE to eat, or are FORCED to eat because of their economic circumstances or the lack of availability of fresh foods where they live. Food scientists are hard at work on processed foods all the time to make them highly flavored with chemical additives. This is a deliberate strategy to get people to repeatedly choose foods that their bodies would otherwise limit. That's why a person can't just eat one potato chip. But where are the required courses in schools to teach children how to eat right? They don't exist.

[quote]None of the links above regarding inflammation say that American foods are poisoned. What they all say is that the typical American DIET of ultra refined and processed foods causes inflammation.

R272, you do know when OP says "Poison" he is not talking about actual hemlock or cyanide, right? People are not dropping dead as soon as they eat. But they are dropping dead from a life long diet of foods that poison their systems and lead to things like cancer, high blood pressure, diabetes. Foods poisoned with the same ingredients at that are pretty much banned in the rest of the world.

and R272 you do know we are talking about more than JUST junk food. You could have the best intentions and have grilled chicken breasts with steamed broccoli. But if that very chicken has been pumped with hormones and is raised in an unhealthy way and if vegetables are treated with pesticides and genetically modified for their appearance - at the best you are eating something with less nutritional value and at worst, digesting all of the sickness and disease of the foods you are eating.

That is what I mean when I say that it is very hard for the average American to avoid food that hasn't been treated in ways that are banned in most of the world - ESPECIALLY the meat supply. You have to be vigilant and financially capable. Food is not grown, raised, with the health of the person eating it in mind - it's raised to maximize profit. And at this point the industrial food complex feeds the industrial drug complex - probiotics, semiglutide injections, high blood pressure medication, anti-depressants. So it's pretty much fixed and unchangeable, unfortunately.

r273, I know you feel you're well-informed, but you've bought into a lot of propaganda:

"Some people think that all commercially raised animals – cattle, hogs, sheep, and poultry – are fed hormones as growth promoters. In fact, the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) does not permit the use of hormones in raising hogs or chickens, turkeys and other fowl. That is why the USDA does not allow the use of the term "no hormones added" on labels of pork or poultry products unless it is followed by a statement explaining that "Federal regulations prohibit the use of hormones." I'm providing a source, but you'll find the same information everywhere you look - if you BOTHER to look.

Cattle are another story 60% of cattle are fed or injected with hormones at some point in their fattening process - just another reason to avoid beef whenever possible.

I'm not quite sure what menluvinguy's point actually is.

My point is that someone keeps coming on here and saying that every single bite of food that one can find in a store in the US is poisoned - that every fruit and vegetable is laced with disease-causing levels of pesticide and every mouthful of every kind of meat is full of hormones. No matter how much evidence to the contrary is provided, that person keeps coming back with the same statements, without evidence.

I wouldn't argue with someone who said that the typical American diet is shitty. I wouldn't argue with someone who said that the US government should be investigating food additives more rigorously. But that's NOT what is being said. I'm just in favor of accuracy.

R257 the disparity’d individuals you saw on your walk were not local residents but rather homeless and out of towners that came in on the trains. Everything within a mile radius is $1M plus.

I think you've created a straw man, r276.

high fructose corn syrup

For R274 - Menluvinguy

[quote]The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimates that every year about 1 million people get sick from eating poultry products contaminated with harmful germs. A 2017 study found that poultry accounted for the highest number of foodborne outbreaks, illnesses, and hospitalizations, and the second highest number of deaths. CDC research shows that foodborne illnesses from bacteria found in chicken are on the rise. In 2018, Campylobacter infections increased 12%, compared to 2015-2017, and Salmonella infections increased 9%. Since 2013, Campylobacter—which causes diarrhea, sometimes bloody, and hospitalizations for 18% of people—has caused the most foodborne infections. Salmonella is the second most common cause of foodborne illness, which can cause diarrhea, fever, and abdominal cramps. In December 2018, the USDA Food Safety and Inspection Service reported that 22% of establishments that produce chicken parts failed to meet the salmonella performance standard.

[quote]In a Physicians Committee study compiled from independent laboratory tests, 100% of 100 grilled chicken samples from top restaurant chains in California contained PhIP, a federally recognized carcinogen that has been linked to breast, prostate, and other cancers. PhIP forms naturally from substances found in tissue when the tissue is exposed to direct high heat.

R274 Chickens may not receive hormones but they do receive a constant diet of antibiotics because they are raised in very unhealthy conditions which cause them to get sick and die. Even Tyson has had to go back on their statement of "No Antibiotics" to "No Antibiotics dangerous to humans." It's not the antibiotics that make people sick necessarily. It is the bacteria in the chicken that becomes resistant to said antibiotics and grow in the chickens that is passed on to the consumer and can make them sick.

[quote]It's not the antibiotics that are harmful; it's the resistant bacteria created by their use in poultry. People who ingest these bacteria can develop infections that are resistant — that is, they won't respond — to the antibiotics doctors commonly use to treat them. Such infections can be particularly dangerous to people with compromised immune systems, such as the frail elderly, people with HIV/AIDS, or those being treated for cancer or chronic inflammatory conditions.

Europe has banned ANY antibiotic use when it comes to raising animals, poultry.

[quote]On the 28th of January 2022, the European Union’s new laws come into force, banning farmed animals from being routinely fed a diet of antibiotics – a move that World Animal Protection considers to be the most progressive in the world.

Again, you have to be ever vigilant when even smart people like Menluvinguy can be easily mislead by the intricate web in which the food industries attempt to maximize profits over the health of the consumer.

Basically, it’s not impossible to avoid all of these things BUT it is extremely difficult and requires you to pay attention to every last detail. And in a country like America where the govt isn’t looking out after its citizens the way other countries are when it comes to the food supply, most Americans who don’t have that kind of time or money pay the price. And you can see how much that costs when you look at the bodies of the average American OR look at their medicine cabinets.

Basically basically basically!

It's the same thing as the extension of credit in America : they put the responsibility on the individual first, then regulate second. The problem with putting the responsibility on the individual is that they oftentimes learn the hard way and in ways that are bad for society in general. Solidarity is it a thing in America unless there's an emergency, so here we are.

Full disclosure, I am the one posting all of the links about the quality of food in America vs. the rest of the world, countries often times much poorer than the United States. I now live in Italy - and no I didn’t move for this reason.

A perfect example of how hard it is to avoid these issues no matter the economic level: My dad had his 75th birthday at Carbone in NYC, one of the “best” restaurants in the country. Of course now it’s a chain of sorts. This was a private dinner that was upwards of $650 a person. The food was served family style. The tomatoes tasted sour, the pasta bland, the meat was tasteless. This all comes down to the ingredients used, how they were grown, what they are grown for. It was edible and fine enough BUT for a dinner that cost $10k - Damn!

I was never a big foodie when I lived in the States. I ate well and was diligent with the types of things I bought. I didn’t eat out a lot, made my own food. I was fine. But after three years of living here, when I go back I can taste the difference. It is pronounced. I realized maybe there IS something to what people say about the quality of ingredients and how your food is raised. The .79 cent tomato sauce here at the grocery store tastes better than Carbone’s.

When I take flights back and forth, the food on the plane leaving Europe (ITA, Air France, Swiss Air, British Airways) can be ridiculously good in comparison to what you get flying back from the States when the planes stock up there.

So maybe instead of protesting in the streets about far flung wars that have very little relevance to your actually day to day life, Americans should be protesting in the streets against the war being waged on them everyday with the food they ingest. But unfortunately I think that shipped sailed a long time ago.

What I meant to say above is that it’s not like I have some refined gourmet palate. I can honestly enjoy McDonalds French Fries just as much as the finest foods. And it’s not like these European countries are trying to grow the best of the best - they are just maintaining what they have always done. It’s only now when I go back that I taste the difference between the food I was happy to eat all along and what I am eating now. And it makes you sad in a way to see how manipulated people are in the States - when the food is the cause of illness and the various drugs being peddled are the cure. And Americans pay out of those nose for the privilege of being trapped in this cycle.

I guess that’s just it - it’s sad. Because I don’t feel there is anything that can be done about it at this point.

And last thing for now… It’s not like the food here is some huge revelation, an explosion of flavors in your mouth on the first bite. People who go on and on like that about the food here are usually tourist faking it. You’ll order something and enjoy it, say it’s good. It’s only after having consistently eaten the food here that you return to the States and order them same thing and go, “oh wow, this is what everyone mentioned…” The difference.

Italian cuisine focuses on the best ingredients, as opposed to French cuisine's focus on technique to make a bad thing better. I think this is why people think that Italian cuisine delivers more successfully on French cuisine's promise in an era where access to better ingredients is more accessible.

Processed food! Surplus agriculture product as fodder for processed food with mostly added sugar, salt and mouth feel fillers. Fast food is high fat. Salt, sugar and fat are irresistible to humans. Add artificial flavors and advertising gimmicks and you have a very toxic food system where the bottom line carries the day (sale$).

Isn't it bizarre that Americans would rather poison themselves with their surplus food rather than feed the hungry?

All the posts from this particular sock puppet; nice work, OP:

American food is basically poison, right? So many Americans go to Europe and other places then get over their digestive issues and lose weight. Foreigners come here and get fat and develop IBS. What the fuck are they putting in our food?

Summer House: Martha's Vineyard - Season 2 As these housemates band together to escape their worries and discover the beauty of this exclusive enclave, it becomes clear that some of their friendships are fractured while others are in full bloom.

Unpopular Opinions About Film The Evening Star is better than Terms of Endearment. There I said it!

Let’s be Outdated Sayings I’m “read for filth”.

R292 no one cares about your pathetic librarian moves. I’m keeping the place popping and moving, what are you doing other trying to act like an online dam? Is your life that sad?

R291, its govt policy to subsidize agriculture leading to over production. Huge issue that rarely gets attention.

R292. Was your post supposed to be a gotcha moment? If so , it failed spectacularly.

I’m on datalounge a lot. Sometimes I feel like I am wasting my days here. But never have I ever felt the need to waste my time tracking down someone else’s moves. That’s next level lonely r292. Where do you even find the time?

R292 has problems.

While this may be a case of right idea, wrong execution. There is self-interest on the part of asshole trolls to marginalize people who use the features that Muriel has given us.

Another hall monitor at R298

I rest my case.

R286 I’ve tried Mutti Passata in the jar. It was bland. Ain’t got nothing on my home grown sauce or even on Muir Glen canned tomatoes.

We all know how superior school lunches are in certain European countries and Japan. How does their hospital food compare to ours. I'm visiting a friend who had colon surgery five days ago and we trying to figure out what to make of his cheeseburger, which doesn't seem like the essence of wellness.. No fries, just green beans.

R298. R292 is using it against someone whose posts are not trolling. R292 deserves to be treated as a jerk.

[quote]We all know how superior school lunches are in certain European countries and Japan. How does their hospital food compare to ours.

I was in the hospital in Italy (Tuscany) for surgery about 10 years ago. A 2 week stay. Food was good.

Thank you, R304. A cheeseburger didn't strike me as the most healthful choice for someone recovering from colon cancer.

I would agree that the food in Italy is delicious, and notably so when, in my twenties, I took the overnight train from northern/central Europe to Italy. The first meal there was a revelation. But I don't agree that it's 100% about the ingredients. It's all about understanding seasoning, layering the components of the meal. The food of central Europe is bland and flavorless. The contrast with Italian cooking couldn't have been clearer. The father of one of my students is from Italy. I made him some homemade bolognese-style sauce from American ingredients - tomatoes from my garden, plus canned tomato paste, garlic, onions, browned meat, Italian seasonings (basil, thyme, rosemary, oregano, parsley, a little bit of red pepper flakes) some salt and some fresh ground pepper. He proclaimed it the equal of anything he had eaten in Italy. I knew the flavor I wanted and I fussed over the dish until I got it, which is more or less also the Italian way.

Yes, the EU banned antibiotics in meat - IN TWENTY TWENTY TWO (two years ago). I think the US will get to that point eventually. Perdue, which is nearly the same size as Tyson, has a no- antibiotic policy. So do several other brands. However, organically raised chickens and other meats are your best bet and a person should look for the organic seal on the package, which means that the certifications have been met and inspected. The organic seal means that the producers have certified that they don't use antibiotics in the raising of their meats.

Not menluvinguy defending corporate America again

R306, I hate to be nit-picky. But Italian cooking is not about the layering of components. That is more French with their sauces and time consuming preparations. Italian cooking surprisingly is like Japanese cooking in that it is ALL about the simplicity and purity of the ingredients. You will be hard pressed to find an Italian recipe that has more than five ingredients, including salt. Meats and fish are prepared very simply - salt, pepper, or some spice. It's in America where Italian food becomes complicated and over layered. So YES, Italian cooking is all about the ingredients being used, so you can taste them. That's one of the reasons it is verboten to put cheese on any fish dish because it overpowers it. Tomatoes, mozzarella, basil, oil and salt is a meal.

Why does American bottled water have so much shit added to it? In Europe the mineral water naturally has minerals in it but in the US it seems that a lot of the time they add the minerals to it. It also tastes just like tap water.

Clothing manufacturers and even bloody Simplicity Patterns are normalising obesity. For bigger people, it's not just caftans and baggy garments now.

After years of buying up their competitors and closing some of them down, Simplicity has a new brand called KNOW ME.

This particular bustier pattern is not available in my youngest niece's size because she's size 10 in Australia/UK, size 6 in the US. Lucky for her, the Vogue range later came up with something similar.

It's funny. To show you how serious they take their food, one of the big morning news stories today was the overpopulation of wild boars flooding the streets in the Emilia-Romagna and the possible cross contamination with cultivated pigs and it's affect on prosciutto di Parma. Of course I like to tune in to see my Massimiliano Ossini every morning.

[quote]But I don't agree that it's 100% about the ingredients. It's all about understanding seasoning, layering the components of the meal.

You're wrong about that.

R308 is correct. It is 100% about the ingredients.

Seasoning plays a very minor role in Italian cooking. And that holds true from North to South. In Tuscany where I sent most of my adult life, "seasoning" is mostly salt and pepper. Red pepper. Herbs are pretty much limited to rosemary and sage. Garlic is used very judiciously. Meals are as simple as can be: a roast loin of pork, steak, a slice of beef, a fish, sausage (no fennel). White beans dressed with oil, black cabbage sautéed in oil and garlic, roasted potatoes with rosemary. A simple pasta dish. A risotto. Polenta. That sort of thing. Dishes are actually rather austere...it is the quality of the ingredients that carry a meal.

[quote]Tomatoes, mozzarella, basil, oil and salt is a meal.

One of the most memorable meals of my life was a lunch of salumi, cheese, bread and wine and a pear. All the absolute best quality from artisan purveyors.

R312, austere and served on separate plates. There are so many rules to Italian eating, they can be quite the little fascist about it. I made osso buco and plated it on top of a risotto Milanese and my friend from Liguria almost had a conniption. I was like bitch - this is how they serve it in Milan. She insisted it must be just for the tourist. Of course you can do what you want but - don't eat the bread before the meal, salad is eaten after the meal, dessert comes before caffè (never, ever order them together). You eat your dessert, THEN if you want one, you order your caffè. I moved from Rome to Florence, but still "fare la scarpetta" with the left over sauce and bread, although I think in the north it is looked upon as a bit country-bumpkiny.

And you don't mix sweet with salty - an all time American favorite thing to do. I remember my Italian friends where insisting on having an American style Brunch at my place with pancakes, waffles, bagels, etc. It was cute, they first ate the savory things, bacon, bagels THEN moved onto anything sweet, like pancakses, afterwards. Having it on the same plate, eating at the same time, is literally so foreign to them. I'd never tell them how I love dipping French fries into Frosties or mixing M&Ms with my movie popcorn.

Oh, the further south you go, I think, you don't see salt or pepper on the tables in the restaurants. And they will not come by and offer you cheese in most places. I guess it's perfect the way it comes out of the kitchen to them and that should be good enough for you. It was finally in Florence did we start seeing grated cheese being offered for pastas, thank god.

[quote]This is their native country.

So the fat ones have been here for generations and the thin ones are new to the country?

Everything on separate plates. You just do not pile things onto a plate. The Italian way of eating is closer to Japanese , Chinese, than the rest of Europe.

I like coffee with dessert...but I had to get over that real fast.

r317, I'm Chinese, and we've always piled different foods on one plate.

R317 has never heard of meze, tapas, hors d'oeuvres or even a smörgåsbord.

I think you missed the point R319. We are referencing meals, not tiny bites. And people pile all kinds of different tapas on the same plate. Anyway in Italy say if you order a steak, potatoes and chicory, all three will arrive in separate dishes. Neither the chicory nor the potatoes will be on the plate with the steak. That's why spaghetti and meatballs that exists the States isn't a thing, because your meatballs will arrive in a separate dish than your pasta.

The potatoes and chicory come separately because they are side dishes for people to share. The same happens in other European countries too.

Lol at the idea that the US is the true heir to the Italian culinary tradition. I've also never had a pasta dish served separately from a meat-based topping in Italy.

R314 I don’t under how Italians can drink coffee so late at night. I’d be wired.

R309 - "mineral water" in Europe means water that comes from a natural source - a spring. It's spring water. In most European countries, mineral water cannot be altered very much after the source. Some carbonation, that's it.

It is not the same thing as "bottled water" which means - WATER PUT IN A BOTTLE. Whatever water you want. In the USA, some bottled water is indeed TAP WATER.

Desani is tap water.

When I was in the US just now pretty much all the bottled water was basically tap water. But Poland Spring water is supposedly from springs in Maine, but it tasted just like tap water.

Why is anyone drinking bottled water, whether it comes from a spring or a tap?

I drink San Pellegrino and Evian. Sometimes Poland Spring. Never tap.

Here are some of the free recipe guides for people receiving food assistance. How many people have the time, equipment and know-how to cook from scratch? What if there are no near-by grocery stores? Food banks and community kitchens are an important adjunct for these folks. So are free lunches and breakfasts for school kids.

How are things for this population different in the EU?

R328 I just know the quality of food served is better. A couple of things to take into account. Even though italy has about 60 million people, it’s just a little bit bigger than Florida. The United States is a MASSIVE country with no firm centralized culture. Italy is also socialist pretty much, as are most European countries, so the welfare of the population, whether health insurance, food protections, social protections are looked after more and not driven by money. Families look after their own, and when they can’t there are services. Just a side note, home ownership in Italy is close to 75%!

This is a description of the public school lunch system in Italy (which as we know is a source of huge money making contracts in the United States)

[quote]School nutrition policies approved in the year 2010 ruled that all Italian school meals be sourced locally and certified organic. Thanks to a program stemming from 2006 agreements between the EU and the World Health Organization, Italy is also leading the way in Europe in the overall improvement of school cafeteria standards, far beyond the menus. In Rome, for example, 70% of all food served at school cafeterias is organic, by law. Ingredients hail from hundreds of Italian organic farms, many of which are located in the Lazio region. Tables are set with silverware and come complete with bread baskets, ceramic plates, cloth napkins and clear glasses. Water – the only beverage allowed – is poured from water pitchers.

There are no "kiddie menus" in Italy. In some cases a restaurant will accommodate by making pasta with butter for a child on request, but that's about it. Kids are expected to eat what their parents eat.

r239 I saw a documentary on childhood obesity in Italy. At 34:48 they showed one town, it was probably in the South, where they didn't have school lunches so the kids went home for lunch. Those who couldn't only had access to a vending machine of junk food. r330 in Naples kids love pizza with french fries on top. And they accuse us of corrupting pizza with pineapples.

There are fat kids with an unhealthy diet in every country of the world, r331. I don't think a UK TV show that deliberately set out to find fat kids in Italy is representative of Italy though.

By the way, r331, that isn't a documentary on childhood obesity in Italy. It's an episode from a BBC food series featuring two UK-based Italians who haven't lived in Italy for over 40 years. That particular episode is about them trying to rediscover the Italian food of their childhood. One of them even tries to reconstruct the village pig slaughters of his childhood. The other one started a very subpar chain of faux Italian food in the UK.