New York City wants to let 800,000 non-citizens vote in city elections

Quelle surprise!

Green card holders pay taxes. Why shouldn’t they have a say in government?

No taxation without representation. An old American motto.

R2 - Tourists and visa holders pay sales tax while here. Why not let the whole world vote in our elections while we're at it.

[quote] This case is just one more example of how Republicans are using the courts to disenfranchise Black and Brown voters across the country."

The constitution disenfranchising them. Not Republicans.

These are deeply unserious people.

[quote]New York City wants to let 800,000 non-citizens vote in city elections

Mass immigration = more voters for who exactly? C'mon, this has been the plan all along.

800,000 ...a LOT of people, enough to sway an election and guarantee a hold on power.

It’s simple a citizen has a right to vote and those who are not citizens do not.

Everyone pays taxes regardless of citizenship and that does not give you the right to vote in a country where you are not a citizen.

What a ridiculous idea. This is the primary fear Republicans have on their voters, that foreigners will control and takeover our country. Sure, try and rewrite the constitution.

Vote here/Vote aquí

Oy vey.

R2 is an idiot. You see this is the type of fringe left politics I will never rock with. Next thing you know they will mandate that all voting places be in English, Spanish, AND Arabic.

Teacake needs a hijab.

Progressives are traitors. They want Sharia law now. That’s what will happen.

I’ll take evangelical Christian rule over Muslim rule any day. The psycho left has caused me to pivot politically in the last 4 years.

Thanks, NY. We had nothing to run on. Now we do - the great replacement theory.

NYC politicians are desperate to make it a 3rd world city

The City Council is a real mess. Please NYC stop voting for “progressives” next time.

R16 they’ll vote in even more progressive liberals next time

Have they considered that the Maggats would surely figure out a way to game this?

Don't look now but you've been replaced.

Wanting non-citizens to vote is advocating voter fraud.

and again will see leftists shake their head and be shocked, shocked I tell you, at what the policies they voted for cause.

When will these dangerous republicans let us just run the cities we control? When, oh, when will they let us? We hold nearly 80% or more of the seats on everything from councils to governor, but these damn republicans keep stopping us from creating a utopian paradise!!!

LoL, r22...nobody will play with you. Well, you just keep trying, young lady.

R23 there is no rebuttal.

R22 Sad but true.

I think a lot of people are starting to see through the cracks of progressive and liberal ideology

That's nice, r26.

How can any politician, at this moment, imagine this idea is worth any time at all? Only the loopiest of progressives could get behind this one.

[quote][R2] - Tourists and visa holders pay sales tax while here. Why not let the whole world vote in our elections while we're at it.

Typical stupid rightwing analogy. Sales taxes paid by tourists are chicken scratch by comparison.

Maybe you should move out of your decaying corpse of a flyover city, Defacto at r28. I live and work in nyc and have many colleagues who have green cards, and they have as much of a stake as I do. Why they can’t vote, but YOU, a weird bitter troll, can, makes zero sense. They’re worth ten of you.

LOL, you're not much of detective, R30. Hello from Toronto. But you've got that shoot of your mouth first and runaway fast holier than thou thing down. Well done you!

Is that the extent of your comeback, Defacto? We’ll consider that your concession speech.

[quote] Only the loopiest of progressives could get behind this one.

But speaking broadly aren't they in control of most large American cities?

A federal judge on Wednesday tossed out a lawsuit challenging a D.C. statute letting noncitizens vote in local elections, concluding that the plaintiffs failed to prove the law has harmed them.

𝐉𝐮𝐝𝐠𝐞 𝐀𝐦𝐲 𝐁𝐞𝐫𝐦𝐚𝐧 𝐉𝐚𝐜𝐤𝐬𝐨𝐧 in D.C. rejected an argument from seven D.C. voters that letting residents without citizenship cast ballots in local — but not federal — races dilutes the votes of citizens. She said the plaintiffs did not show that they’ve been treated inequitably or denied opportunities because of the D.C. Noncitizen Voting Act, which the D.C. Council passed in 2022.

The D.C.-based Immigration Reform Law Institute, which represents the plaintiffs, said it would appeal the decision. The nonprofit advocates for limiting immigration.

“At stake is the sovereignty of the American people over this country,” litigation director Christopher Hajec wrote in an email. “The courts’ consideration of this vitally-important case has just begun.”

This makes total sense. Why wouldn’t a resident that pays state tax be able to vote on local elections? This isn’t like allowing non citizens to vote on federal elections, it’s to allow them say on their local councilmembers. This site seems to be only dickheads and trolls left at this point what a shame.

American citizens come in last.

[quote]I live and work in nyc and have many colleagues who have green cards, and they have as much of a stake as I do.

Green card holders can apply for US citizenship after five years, unless they are married to an American citizen, in which case they can apply after only three years. That's not very long. If they have so much invested, have such a stake, in their local government, then they can apply for citizenship and, after it is granted they can vote.

If they haven't been here for enough time yet, then let them wait; their time will come. Consider it citizenship training, as they observe politics first-hand and develop their opinions. That's more than most native-born Americans do.

If they have been here long enough to become a citizen but choose not to do so, then that's that. They've made their choice. Being an American is not just some convenient bit of paper. It's a commitment to our country. If you're not ready to made that lifelong commitment, then you don't get to vote at any level.

R29 has trouble thinking things through, and immediately hurls insults because he/she has nothing else to give.

R29 is mentally ill. Paranoia.

R17, I doubt it, Most black voters are against this and other “progressive” reforms. ditto for Asians and Latino citizens. Trump showing up at the cop’s wake was brilliant theatre (sadly) and shows he knows what’s up even in NYC.

The great replacement theory!

The seething resentment against migrants by black New Yorkers is a not covered enough. You don’t have to be Dee Plorable to feel that way.

R16- The same people who are quite happy to legalize theft in the city.

R37 = R38 = this thing 👇

[quote] Green card holders can apply for US citizenship after five years, unless they are married to an American citizen, in which case they can apply after only three years.

You’re just begging the question with this, running back to momma. “If they want to vote so much why don’t they just become citizens?” 🤡

[quote] If they have been here long enough to become a citizen but choose not to do so, then that's that. They've made their choice. Being an American is not just some convenient bit of paper. It's a commitment to our country. If you're not ready to made that lifelong commitment, then you don't get to vote at any level.

Girl shut the fuck up. You don’t get to decide first of all, NYC is making this available so you will get to vote at some level as a resident.

Americans are afforded this benefit in almost every single other western country as residents, of course you think you’re so special you need your own rules. Typical “USA USA USA” bullshit. There’s many reasons residents might not become citizens. Maybe they don’t want to. Maybe their home country doesn’t allow dual citizenship. Maybe they don’t meet some parameters. Maybe they don’t wanna be part of your onerous taxation of non resident citizens in their later life if they plan to move 10 years down the line. It doesn’t matter.

[quote]Americans are afforded this benefit in almost every single other western country as residents

That is not true. You're full of shit.

I'm fine with letting green card holders vote in local elections. If they have a permanent resident visa it means they most likely have jobs and intend to stay here for a while. It's not like they're handing out ballots to everyone who gets off a plane at JFK.

Insanity.

Non-citizens should not be able to vote. Period.

The council should be replaced. They are a terrible group of people who don't deserve their position

[quote]Green card holders pay taxes. Why shouldn’t they have a say in government?

[quote]No taxation without representation. An old American motto.

Exhausting. Another moron like the idiots who scream about "free speech" but have no idea what it actually mean. Fine. If you've got a green card and don't want to pay taxes, don't work in the US and go back to your country of citizenship.

Voting is a right and perk of being a citizen. If you're not a citizen, you don't get to vote. It's like going to someone's house (uninvited) and demanding that they change the rules to suit you. No, you don't get to demand that they spend more money on food or turn the thermostat up. You don't get to decide ANYTHING in someone else's house.

Fuck you magat

[quote]It’s simple a citizen has a right to vote

Tell that to the hundreds of thousands incarcerated citizens in our prisons. They will be happy to know they have a right to vote form their prison cell.

Gloria, you're always on the run now.

[quote]Tell that to the hundreds of thousands incarcerated citizens in our prisons.

LOL - one of the punishments for committing felonies is losing your right to vote. Suggesting they be allowed to vote is like arguing that we're infringing on their right to freedom by putting them in jail.

Also, this is DL, so you know deep down that you don't want people who are stupid enough to get caught actually voting.

Is it a felony to come here illegally?

[quote]Is it a felony to come here illegally?

No one said anything about it being a felony to come here illegally.

Can you read - the comment was "incarcerated CITIZENS in our prison" - I don't know too many citizens who are here illegally, as the two are mutually exclusive by the conventional definitions of "citizen" and "here illegally."

Although feel free to lecture me on some bizarre situation where a US citizen is somehow in the country illegally.

As a practical matter -

[quote]No. The act of being present in the United States in violation of the immigration laws is not, standing alone, a crime. While federal immigration law does criminalize some actions that may be related to undocumented presence in the United States, undocumented presence alone is not a violation of federal criminal law.

[quote] Voting is a right and perk of being a citizen. If you're not a citizen, you don't get to vote.

Not in most western countries, and not for much longer in your one ;)

Another NYC resident here who considers this a non-issue. There’s historic precedent for allowing legal citizens to vote, and the NYC law only covers local elections. You don’t need to be wildly progressive (I’m not) to understand that it makes sense to let legal residents vote for, say, the council person who represents their neighborhood.

If anything, many foreign-born residents skew toward conservative, so it’s not like this is a direct win for any single politician or political group. However, the wants of various neighborhoods can be better reflected when permanent residents are enfranchised and have a say in their representation.

We've gotten so polarized that people are defending granting voting rights to non-citizens because Republicans oppose it.

R61, plenty of people have rationally explained why this is a good thing. You're just choosing not to listen.

They're practically handing out tinfoil to the QAnon nutjobs by doing that.

Everytime I block that hoodrat Teacake she creates a new account. I fear she's that she's a lesbian and that she's trying to convert me! Hold me, Gregg!

Disenfranchise black and brown people!?! The majority of black Americans are US citizens with the oldest lineage in the US with Wasps.

They’re talking about illegal brown people and always have to put black people in to look for the community’s support. And they won’t get any.

Fuck out of here.

This is done in Europe all the time. You all just aren't used to the idea, and may be a little bit too caught up in this "we're number one" shit.

R64.

Good for Europe but being an American citizen has some perks. One of which is voting. This will be wildly unpopular and hopefully get rid of some of the more toxic progressives. The problem is all the action is in the Dem primaries which get a pretty low turnout. So hard core “progressives” win even though they don’t have majority support. Turnout in NYC local elections is terrible..

I love how Americans do all this 'good for Europe' shit, seeming to forget that the entire country was founded because there was taxation without representation. Enjoy enjoy your guns, brutal instant layoffs, legislation via court cases, and two week vacations.

[quote]This is done in Europe all the time.

No it is not.

Yes, it is. Definitely for MEP elections and EU citizens, depends on the country for local elections. UK has made it clear they're not part of Europe, so I don't want to hear it.

Ireland, for example, does allow non-EU citizens to vote in local elections.

[quote]Yes, it is. Definitely for MEP elections and EU citizens

For people who are citizens of countries outside of the EU it's a big NO.

I was resident in Italy for years. I could not vote.

Allowing non-citizens to vote in the US is absurd.

See r71. Also, in the Netherlands, you can vote in municipal elections after 5 years of residence.

"Adult residents from countries with voting agreements with Spain can also vote in municipal elections.

These countries are Bolivia, Cape Verde, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, Iceland, Norway, Paraguay, Peru, South Korea, Trinidad and Tobago, New Zealand, and the United Kingdom."

¡Me gusta votar!

[quote] This is done in Europe all the time.

Show your work, dear.

[quote] You all just aren't used to the idea, and may be a little bit too caught up in this "we're number one" shit.

You can't possibly be so stupid as to think that other countries aren't nationalistic.

R43 - Wrong again. Don't you ever get tired of being wrong all the time?

Irish domiciled in the UK get to vote there.

You can't be so stupid as to miss me giving you three links to show my work and to assume I was saying that America is the only nationalistic country in the world, are you r76?

And here's a comprehensive map of non-citizen suffrage and an accompanying Wikipedia article.

[quote] Countries according right to vote to every resident non-EU foreigner without limit of time of residence

There are NONE within the EU.

[quote]Countries from the European Union which do not give the right to vote to non-EU foreigners

That is the majority of EU countries.

The remaining grant the right but with restrictions i.e. only to certain countries, length of residency.

You're an asshole, r81, and live in a world of confirmation bias. I may be a cunt, but I'm an honest cunt.

R82 The info is from the link at R80.

You're wrong read the Ireland link and look at the deep red countries on the map.

[quote] Tell that to the hundreds of thousands incarcerated citizens in our prisons. They will be happy to know they have a right to vote form their prison cell.

lol.

Pinko liberals are determined to destroy what’s left of the country.

[quote] Tell that to the hundreds of thousands incarcerated citizens in our prisons. They will be happy to know they have a right to vote form their prison cell.

Liberals: criminals first.

Liberals are no better than MAGA cultists.

R81 - You're right. I didn't read the entire thread before posting. I realized it after but there's no edit button on this site. Nevertheless, I doubt the information you imparted is the whole story but rather cherry-picked from like-minded sources.

[quote] You all just aren't used to the idea, and may be a little bit too caught up in this "we're number one" shit.

[quote] You can't be so stupid as to miss me giving you three links to show my work and to assume I was saying that America is the only nationalistic country in the world, are you [R76]?

Now you're just being disingenuous after being called out. I have zero doubt that's EXACTLY how you feel about Americans.

I find it disappointing when people automatically label you right wing when you disagree on some topics which is precisely why we have become so divided as a country where we can’t come to the middle to discuss things without having meltdowns and resort to name calling.

I don’t care what other countries do, I care about our country and only citizens should have a right to vote, and those who wish to vote can choose to become citizens following the law. This is not a right or left wing view it’s common sense.

R89 - Right. You have to LOL at that list of countries that allow non-citizen voting. Guatemala? Ecuador? Bolivia? Yeah, there's millions and millions of people traversing the continent to get into those countries. Scandinavia has a HUGE problem now with radical Islamic migration so unless you want to see that Sharia Law here too, then kindly STFU.

Okay, but do any of you “alas our country is falling” trolls apprehend that legal residents affected by NYC law can vote only in local elections that affect them directly? If someone has legal status as an NYC resident, they are likely paying high local taxes and are entitled to say how that money is spent because they are legally allowed to work and required to be taxpayers. There is no call to give non-citizens the vote in state or federal elections, so it’s not granting them key rights of citizenship. It is a local thing, and if you live somewhere other than NYC it doesn’t affect you in the slightest.

Personally, I think it’s not a bad tactic to offer privileges to people who are in the country legally, especially in a city that depends so much on immigrants. An approach being taken in New York does not make it mandatory in other areas, despite the arguments of fearmongering talking heads.

I fail to see how this is any more of a problem than the illegals, aliases, and dead people who've been voting in presidential elections for decades.

We already give them driver licenses.

Before we have our newcomers vote, it would be nice to verify their general feelings toward gay rights, trans rights, women's rights, and the other progressive tenets.

There's a general belief (clearly shared by the NYC City Council) that all immigrants are highly progressive in their politics, but in my limited experience, that hasn't been the case.

They think all POC share one progressive hive mind. Boy are they in for a surprise.

[quote] They think all POC share one progressive hive mind

The progressive hive mind misses the good ol days

R96 is a typical brain dead liberal. Clinton was referring to Obama’s age and lack of experience. Continue on with your “that’s racist” bullshit.

R94, you want to vet people’s opinions and then offer them the right to vote if their answers align with yours?

R94 does not understand Democracy.

Sharia Law and Catholic Latinx are quite a mix to run the gay ghettos.

FUCK these people. The government is more concerned about taking care of foreigners who just arrived here five minutes ago instead of actual US citizens.

R101 fuck them and the politicians.

[quote]They think all POC share one progressive hive mind. Boy are they in for a surprise.4

They come from extremely religious and conservative cultures/societies. Not a good mix with progressive first world Western values.

[quote]Okay, but do any of you “alas our country is falling” trolls apprehend that legal residents affected by NYC law can vote only in local elections that affect them directly? If someone has legal status as an NYC resident, they are likely paying high local taxes and are entitled to say how that money is spent because they are legally allowed to work and required to be taxpayers. There is no call to give non-citizens the vote in state or federal elections, so it’s not granting them key rights of citizenship. It is a local thing, and if you live somewhere other than NYC it doesn’t affect you in the slightest.

I'm an American who lived in London for several years and I never, ever would have expected to be allowed to vote in elections. I wasn't a native or naturalized citizen of the UK. For me to expect to be allowed to vote in their elections would've been ridiculous.

[quote]Scandinavia has a HUGE problem now with radical Islamic migration so unless you want to see that Sharia Law here too, then kindly STFU.

Their politicians really fucked up their countries by allowing that.

As stated in the post you quoted, R104, there is not a single standard regarding voting rights that is applicable across all locations. If you were a legal citizen of an EU country, you would have had voting rights for non-national elections within the UK. If you were a foreign national of any background with legal residency in Scotland or Wales, you would have been entitled to vote in all non-national elections.

Different voting districts have different rules regarding who is allowed to vote in elections that affect those districts. That a foreign national with legal residence in NYC might vote for their neighborhood council person has nothing to do with your personal experience in London.

r106 it's not right for foreign nationals to vote in elections.

R106 The overwhelming majority are:

"Countries from the European Union which do not give the right to vote to non-EU foreigners"

Others have an important restriction:

"Countries according right to vote to every resident non-EU foreigner which resides in the country for a certain time"

Wait until Muslims start voting in other Muslims who want to bring their fucked up culture into the rest of society, as is already happening in Michigan.

Progressives have their hearts in the right place, but they are totally blind and ignorant to the real world.

This article is hilarious:

Foreign nationals who have legal residence in a particular locality may be granted the right to vote certain elections specific to the area in which they live R107. The standards required to be a legal resident qualifying for voting rights vary between locations. It’s not like you step off a plane with a tourist visa and hop into a voting booth.

If you can’t understand that giving a legal resident of a particular city the right to vote in an election that affects their city and their neighborhood is not the same thing as allowing them to vote in state or national elections, perhaps a civics class would be in order. We don’t make laws based on your feelings about what is right and what is not.

[quote]If you can’t understand that giving a legal resident of a particular city the right to vote in an election that affects their city and their neighborhood is not the same thing as allowing them to vote in state or national elections, perhaps a civics class would be in order. We don’t make laws based on your feelings about what is right and what is not.

Most of Europe sensibly does not allow such a stupid practice.

Canada: "As it stands in Canada, no non-citizen is permitted to vote at any level of government, be it municipal, provincial, or fedral."

This is a scam by the 99% Democrat City Council for more votes. Like Joe Biden pushing for kids not to pay college debt, which got the kabbosh.

Every US citizen should have a Photo ID to vote. The same people who claim they can't get a photo ID, had no problem going to the Welfare Office to suck at the public's teat.

NYC’s non-citizen voting law ruled unconstitutional on appeal

If more non citizens were allowed to vote int eh 80s & 90s then LGBT rights would never have been a thing.

Hell we'd still have sodomy laws & no gay marriages to speak of.

About 4 dozen nations still have the death penalty for LGBT folks does the DL want these folks coming here & putting those laws ion our books?

Wow R117 you’re not the smartest.

r118 third worlders are very backwards and conservative. They're basically aligned with our own white trash rednecks as far as social/cultural issues.

Of course they do. How sudden and unanticipated!

[quote] Wait until Muslims start voting in other Muslims who want to bring their fucked up culture into the rest of society, as is already happening in Michigan.

Step by step, inch by inch.

Diversity in action!

This today is the city council of Hamtramck Michigan.

Click on the link. It says it all.

Yes because when Americans were given the chance to vote on gay marriage they were suuuuuuuuuuper supportive 😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫

Meh, when states and their courts are shitcanning women’s rights, this ain’t on my radar.

Also, fellow homos, when they finish with abortion rights, our asses will be next in line.

I don't think this is what Thomas Jefferson and John Adams had in mind.

Because of Biden's pro-Israel position, Muslims will vote for Trump and historically, they are Conservative.