Shirley MacLaine

"Cher was right. You are an asshole."

Shitely MacLaine

She IS Shirley MacLaine!

Loves it when you fart in her face.

Her birthday is NEXT month, not this month.

She's always been one of my favorites.

I think her performance in "The Children's Hour" has been overlooked over the years. She has the toughest part being the love-starved closeted lesbian in love with straight girl Audrey Hepburn. Shirl is a bit over the top but love it when she tells off Miriam Hopkins for being too cowardly to show up in court to defend them.

[quote] By the mid-2020's, she is still at the top of the Hollywood A-List.

She hasn't been A list since the mid-90's, at best. And she hasn't worked much at all recently.

"What a Way to Go" is one of my favorites of her movies. Her dance with Gene Kelly is particularly impressive, her leaps were very high and her legs light and great lines. I love "Can Can" too. She is a versatile artist but first a dancer. Her acting did smooth out over time.

Her Larry King interview is funny

Always had a soft spot for her. She reminds me of my paternal grandma, who had a great sense of humor

She never took herself too seriously, which I admire. She's so unpretentious

She turns 90 in April

Not a fan.

R9, It was originally intended for Marilyn Monroe.

Is she still waiting on her creme brulee?

I ADORE her for her performance in Terms of Endearment alone. I have to admit, I was taken aback by some of what her daughter said. Something about her first husband being a double and the real one was orbiting the earth in a Japanese space shuttle? I mean, the woman is a KOOK.

BUT, I love her work, and I suppose she's flawed like the rest of us. We are richer for having had her talent in Hollywood all these years.

Her brief scene with Dean Martin in the OG "Ocean's 11" is perfect!

Shirley MacLaine...one of the last of the good ol' broads.

Don Rickles at the AFI award to Shirley

Shitty MacLaine is more like it…….

''

I subscribe to her Shirleygrams, which she sends monthly. They're full of things like yes, UFOs, but also pet care tips and healthy living ideas, supplements, little good news stories and what Shirley is up to. You sign up on her website. I want to see her recent movie she did with (Handful of) Peter Dinklage.

I always felt she was playing herself in Steel Magnolias

I loved when she followed up her Oscar turn in Terms of Endearment by playing a nun on the run with TV's Marilu Henner in Cannonball Run II.

Deb Reynolds hated Shirley. Her performance in “Postcards from the Edge” merely sealed the deal.

R26 Really?

Shirley and Debbie Reynolds were in These Old Broads together with Joan Collins and Elizabeth Taylor.

She didn't get nominated for her third film. But it DID win best picture that year. Loved her in so many movies over the years. Shes great in one of her underrated ones, called All in a Night's Work.

CUNT!!!!

She has the imperturbable Roy Plomley in stiches in this interview.

[quote]Deb Reynolds hated Shirley.

Based on what, r26? Shirl let Debbie have Molly Brown.

Her having a kid was a mistake.

R27 a friend was a background artist in These Old Broads. He was thrilled to report that Joan Collins was a botch and Shirley was nice.!

[quote]a background artist

Where exactly is the...artistry?

R33, It could have been worse. Joan Collins’ role was originally intended for Lauren Bacall.

For the umpteenth time, OP, Do you think we don't know about Shirley MacLaine?

I think she's overrated to the 100 power.

I love this little Maggie Smith story, and how Shirl tells it.

I think Shirley MacLaine is a very good actress, one of the best. She has a list of memorable, even seminal, roles.

That said by many accounts he real life persona is very different from the majority of her roles as a plucky, good natured , sometime naive, gal. Again, this only commends her as an actress,

One of the best compare to WHAT, R38?

“Compared”, R39.

Fuck HER!

Not a good actress at all just a bitch

Is she still into all that New Age metaphysical crap? My mother loved her and bought all her books.

I liked her in "Postcards from the Edge", although she occasionally veered into the territory that made her so tiresome in her other roles from that general era like "terms" and "Steel Magnolias".

I've never gotten the love for "Terms of Endearment" or her part in it---basically she was a brittle version of her old madcap self. Nicholson did a phoned-in version of his usual performance and Jeff Daniels was not believable as a college professor, plus you had the whole predictable, emotionally manipulative, cliche-ridden ending. You can get away with that in a play, but it's difficult to carry that off in a movie.

The New Age stuff, packing her kid off to live with money sucking useless husband--she just seems like someone who never should have had kids.

R39, compared to the best movie actresses. I can tell you my favourites (Bette Davis, Deborah Kerr, Katherine Hepburn, Cate Blantchett, Michelle Pfeiifer, Sigorney Weaver to name of few) and i confess she does not ocurr to me when asked avout the greatest actresses, but when asked i think she has an impressive body of work and some truly seminal roles).

I learned to appreciate her work as I got older - in my 40s. She always reminded me of a former boss of mine, whom I didn't like. Looked and acted very much like her.

Whatever happened to her friendship with Streisand ? They seemed so close over the years, up until maybe 20 years ago. (I don't think Streisand shared much about her in her book). They both share the same birthday - 8 years apart.

"It twiiiiiiirled up!!"

[quote] I ADORE her for her performance in Terms of Endearment alone.

+1.

I adore MacLaine. And I don't know why she gets shit-on for giving up her child to her father. Isn't that better than keeping her and then neglecting her?

[quote] Her first film was with Hitchcock, her second with Dean Martin

Dean Martin and Jerry Lewis.

An obscure movie of hers is Career (1958). It revolves more around the character played by Tony Franciosa - an aspiring actor. Shirley and Dean Martin (top-billed) were under contract to Hal Wallis at the time. It's a complicated story about the things an actor has to do and give up in order to make it - set during the Depression, WWII, and the era of the Blacklist.

Another obscure one is Hot Spell (1958), with Shirley Booth, Anthony Quinn, and Earl Holliman. Kind of a ersatz Tennessee Williams drama.

*an...

[quote]Isn't that better than keeping her and then neglecting her?

In this case, r48...no.

The kid was given to her father where she was ignored and neglected. Of course the father had wandering hands!

R46, they were NEVER close. Shirley and Barbra are friendly but Shirl is not in the inner circle.

Leslie Caron, who had a long affair with Warren, said in her autobiography that Shirley and Warren should have been in charge of Hollywood with their savvy and talent (I paraphrase). She also said he went for women who reminded him of his sister and idolized her. His daughter Ella turned out very Shirleyesque, but built like an athlete, not a wispy dancer like aunt Shirley, and with Annette's grounding.

Leaving this here

Miss MacLaine's arrival has been delayed. Her ship from Jupiter was delayed and had to make an unscheduled landing on Mars due to unruly Venusians on board. Those Venusians are always so trashy.

What kind of mother places their two-year-old child alone on a plane flying from Los Angeles to Tokyo?

Satchie was safely transported with Mr Spock

She disavowed all the new age bullshit years ago.

R55, like most of his co-stars that Warren had affairs with, Leslie Caron was a two-mouthed, not a long affair.

^ two - monther. Two months.

Shirley MacLaine acted as a wannabe campaign manager for George McGovern in 1972, sitting in on strategy meetings and advising the senator almost daily. She was meant to rally celebrity support and then fuck off back to La-La-Wood, but she hung around like a bad cheese fart. She was full of oddball ideas for McGovern, and he was too nice or starstruck to ignore her.

He lost 49/50 states that year.

She is at least self aware

R63, Shirley was living with Pete Hamill in the 1970s, until Jackie O stole him from her.

A friend of mine was the nanny to Rebecca DeMorney's kids. Shirley and Rebecca were in Canada to shoot a movie. Everyone was in a compartment on a train, and Shirley was complaining. "I can't STAND Canadians. They're so passive/agressive." A porter peaked his head in the compartment and said "Hi folks! Just wanted to make sure everyone was ok." As soon as he was gone, Shirley looked up at everyone and said with a wise tone "You see?"

My friend LOVED her. Said she was a real hoot.

Pete Hamill was such a fat big mouth, I would be happy to let Jackie have him.

I recently saw "Bernie" for the first time.

Based on a true story of a DLer (Bernie, assistant funeral director) who befriended a rich widow (Shirley) in Carthage, TX, small eastern TX town.

Jack Black plays Bernie and was surprisingly good. Shirley was the best part, IMO.

Bernie ends up shooting Shirley 4X in the back, putting her body in a chest freezer for 9 months.

Matthew McConaughey played the D.A. who got a change of trial venue because he felt he could not get a conviction in Carthage. (Due to Bernie's popularity in Carthage.)

MM was too young for the role, IMO.

Movie reminded me of "Waiting for Guffman."

Bernie was into community theater, etc. He and Shirley went on multiple lavish trips, traveling 1st class.

R68 Bernie is a good one!

She was sort of like Ginger Rogers for another age: Not a glamour gal, but reasonably pretty, could sing and dance, and very good at comic or ordinary woman roles. Not as good at serious drama.

She is a terrible narcissist, and has been pretty bitchy over the course of her career, but often amusingly so.

I bet she thinks she’s more like Bette Davis or Katharine Hepburn. Headstrong, brassy, and the definitive Actress.

All the cunts think they’re Davis or Hepburn.

Shirley dumped her only daughter, having her fly by herself as a small child, to another continent in an alien culture to a father who neglected that child except when he was sexually abusing her.

Having Joan or Shirley as a mother is a Hobson's choice. Let's just say as wonderful a personality and actor she is she is also as a human being a monster. I mean we are not talking about Hitler or Stalin but it's still selfishness and narcissism on a stomach churning level.

Shirley's a self absorbed nutcase. I wasn't surprised that she treated her only child like SHIT.

with Gene...

Love her. Always have from the first moment at the elevator in The Apartment

She's fine in an ensemble or in a supporting role, but tends to be insufferable as the star.

I don’t think most stars have great mental health, but I thought this story from her daughter’s book was very revealing.

When she was 6 or 7 she met the director (or producer?) of the upcoming TO KILL A MOCKINGBIRD while strolling on the beach with her mom, and he was looking at child actresses for the role of Scout. He asked Shirl if Sachi would read for it. The child had zero interest and even found the prospect scary - but her mom browbeat her into it, saying one had to do things that scared you, meet challenges, etc.

Well, wasn’t Miss Shirley MacLaine horrified when this reading progressed to a screen test and the offer of the role! Realizing she’d have to share attention with her daughter, Shirley declined the offer. Sadly, by that point the little girl had got caught up in the process and wanted to do it.

Hard to imagine someone else in the role of Scout. But who knows, she might have been good.

She'd have been better as Regan.

I was Cleopatra in a previous thread.

R18 My fav scene in the movie.

‘It just so happens I’m very much in demand’.

Shirley says in her book "Sage-ing While Aging" that Satchi was the model for the photo on the cover of "The Exorcist" and she, Shirley, was the inspiration for Regan's mother and was the original actress intended for the role. That would have been a completely different experience than Ellen Burstyn.

Well if that Mockingbird story is true Shirley did not want competition with her own child! At least Ryan allowed his kid to do Paper Moon. But her success in that role really fucked up their relationship to a horrifying degree. Some people having children are damning them to hell.

Ryan didn't "allow" Tatum to be in paper Moon, he recruited her.

R84, Every line reading was fed to her by Bogdanovich.

great gams!

R56 Shirley is 45 there. Incredible shape and line. I'm not an expert in dance however I think Shirley's dancing was a great combination of precision and the look of effortlessness.

OP, perfect timing. I just watched The Apartment for the first time yesterday and I loved it. Shirley is great in it and there is 0 clue that she was completely batshit insane IRL.

R7, 💯--her performance in TCH blew me away. She really walked away with the movie and de-glammed herself to great benefit (but not in that silly faux-plain style of Grace Kelly in The Country Girl). She is one of those rare actresses who seems always to put the performance ahead of vanity.

As A 55-y/o woman, what strikes me especially about the Letterman clip is how extraordinary she looked--she was mid-50s in 1988 and looked young and dancer-thin and altogether stunning. And that quick wit! I love her.

I didn't like her in The Children's Hour. I know I'm in the minority. She had a terrible speaking and singing voice, in my opinion. but sometimes it didn't matter, and even contributed to her effectiveness. (like in Some Came Running, one of my favorite performances of hers). Miriam Hopkins played the same part in the 1936 version (also directed by William Wyler), These Three. I feel that's the superior film, even though it didn't include any homosexuality. Lillian Hellmann felt it didn't matter, saying the play wasn't about homosexuality, it's about a lie. The lie told (by Bonita Granville) in the 1936 film was that the two female teachers were both involved with their male doctor friend, under one roof. It worked just as well, the way it was done.

(Hellmann wrote the screenplay of the 1936 version.)

Talented actress- good dancer, lousy singer and a bit nutty. Her reincarnation ideas are silly. Otherwise I might say she’s smart.

Just saw Being There (1979) again last night. It's a great movie, and Shirley keeps her usual mugging and aren't-I-so-wonderful shit out of the role. Very Good, Shirl.

I think she's fantastic. A triple threat in her day, unique presence, A list for DECADES on end. A grade a kook, but one of my personal DIVAS.

R93 It sounds like you'd be happy if she only gave this kind of performance in every movie. Wouldn't that be kind of...boring? (As boring as Being There is, in general.)

My favourite story about Ms MacLaine was dropped into conversation by The Hon Margaret Rhodes, Lady of the Bedchamber to Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother in Desert Island Discs. Mrs Rhodes remarks, almost in passing, that she ended up in the company of Ms MacLaine in 1964 when attending a wedding in Bhutan, which was interrupted by a military coup.

For the benefit of those who have no time or inclination to listen to the Mrs Rhodes, I am happy to reveal that she found Ms MacLaine to be “awfully nice”.

Lady of the Bedpan.

Does MacClain have a Kennedy Center Honor?

Her brother has one.

Her brother Warren Beetie?

She does, R98.

Shirley almost certainly has the greatest above-the-title longevity for female film stars who are still working. Is there any other actress from the 50s who comes close?

Sophia Loren hasn't made a movie for 4 years, so I guess it's Shirley for the win.

Eva Marie Saint

Eva Marie Saint hasn't starred above the title in over 50 years and hasn't been in any film for a decade.

R94, A list for decades? Um, no, not quite. She was A list in movies for one decade.

She wasn't quite A-list until the late '50s. She was nominated for an Academy Award in 1957. Then I would say she was A-list Until the early '70s. Made a comeback in the early '80s with Terme Of Endearment, and was still pretty big by the time of Steel Magnolias and Postcards From he Edge (1990).

Not exactly a classic but I love her in Saving Tess with Nicholas Cage.

R106, the failure of Sweet Charity in 1969 cemented any claim Shirley had to A or B lists as a film actress.

R108 I don't think you mean cemented.

The Turning Point and Being There were A-list projects whatever you might think of them.

I loved her in the nun and mule movie with Clint Eastwood. They had great chemistry. I normally don't like westerns but I watched this last year or so just to see what Shirley fucking MacLaine could do in a western. It was a great drama/comedy. I loved it. Surprisingly.

I like Shirley in Desperate Characters. She is funny playing a somewhat wealthy woman who gets scratched by a stray cat and molested by her husband. And DL fave Sada Thompson gets a scene with Shirley as a friend who has a strange domestic relationship, living with her ex-husband who insults her.

Shirley also plays wealthy in The Possession of Joel Delaney. In real life Shirley IS wealthy but her screen persona seems more proletariat.

R110, Being There was supporting. Turning Point was a co-lead. Would your 30 year old ass call Anne Bancroft A LIST too?

YOU SOBER UP YOU DIRTY BASTARD OR I'LL KILL YOU! Sister Sarah and her mules. Free. Youtube. enjoy.

What was the reason Audrey Hepburn turned down The Turning Point? We could have had an Audrey/Shirley reunion after The Kids Hour. Plus Audrey WAS a dancer so she would have been more believable than Bancroft.

Sister Sara has a good twist when she turns out to be a hooker in disguise.

Audrey couldn't stand Shirley. At that point though Audrey could stand very few Hollywood people.

I like her in The Trouble with Harry.

I'm Still Here, Postcards from the Edge. (Someone mentioned she couldn't sing, but I think she did a good job, here.)

[quote]Audrey couldn't stand Shirley.

Source, r118?

Maggie Smith has been around since the 1950's and is still a "Big get"

Are any of her glitzy song and dance specials from HBO available on the YouTube?

The R56 sequence is notable for her NOT doing any Fosse moves. Plus she is wearing heels and dancing like that? Her feet must have hurt afterward.

I’m watching her Shirley MacLaine Live from the Roxbury from 1984 right now. It still holds up!

Does she do any Fosse in it?

At 50...

Wow Shirley was doing great in that historical panorama until she got to "black style" and she tanked, hard.

That wavy hairstyle does her no favors.

There was a TV show maybe Dick Cavett? with Gwen Verdon demonstrating the history of dance. Wonder if it is on YouTube.

Fosse dumped Shirley for the more trendy Liza

R130 not on YT. I saw it as well but it wasn't his ABC show. Gwen did a ton of dancing with the American Dance Machine. A little bit of it was in the Gwen Vernon docu.

I remember when all the stars gathered on stage for the premiere of That's Entertainment and Shirley climbed up from the audience. Very undignified but kooky.

Here's Shirley climbing up to the stage for this MGM reunion. From this group only Shirley, Liza, Margaret O'Brien, Russ Tamblyn and George Hamilton are still among us.

Shirley climbs up at 9.30.

Saucy...

Speaking of climbing up, Shirley had an affair with the very much married Robert Mitchum for several years.

R114 The Turning Point was one of the big movies of its year, Bancroft and MacLaine were both nominated for Best Actress. Everybody saw it. ( I remember going to it, twice.) Bancroft and MacLaine were big stars. What do you think they were? B or C list? You're making no sense.

By the way, the '70s were almost totally dominated by male stars. Streisand, and maybe Jane Fonda were exceptions. It was all about Redford, Newman, McQueen, Hoffman, Pacino, Connery, etc.

Starring in one hit movie does not make someone A list. R139 is right, though I’d take Connery off and put in Burt Reynolds (hated him). Streisand was a huge A list film star in the 1970s. MacLaine, no. Marsha Mason, no. Diane Keaton was teetering near the top. Fonda, yes, in the second half of the decade.

Oops, I meant R138.

No, go back to R139 being right.

Shirley MacLaine was an A List star in the 1960s.

She evidently hit it off with pre-Oscar Nicolas Cage when they made that awful but enduring “Guarding Tess” together.

"The Turning Point" was a huge hit, but not so much for Bancroft and Maclaine, but for the story and Baryshnikov. That was when dance was peaking as a popular art form. Ballet and dance companies were sprouting up everywhere. Baryshnikov was a big sex symbol (and the main reason that a lot of people went to see it). Bancroft was not an A-lister in the sense of being able to carry an A-picture on her own, she was more an ensemble player and she's perfectly cast apart from her limited ability to dance. Maclaine has the least interesting role other than Tom Skerritt and this wasn't much of a showcase for her. Bancroft is better at doing hurt and anger despite her scenery chewing and Maclaine clearly was not her equal. She got better at drama as she aged although it often came off as a brittle version of her kooky younger persona ("Steel Magnolias" is the best example).

Who here knows more about her affair with Robert Mitchum? He was so smoking hot when he was young!!

“Although both were married, MacLaine began a passionate three-year affair with Mitchum, almost two decades her senior, seeing him as an “exquisite challenge.” For his part, Mitchum said her face was “treacherously beautiful,” like “some enchanted goblin's.””

R145, Lauren Bacall campaigned hard for the Anne Bancroft role and was disappointed when she was not cast.

R145 ailed it. No one went to The Turning Point to see Shirley MacLaine. On the other hand, people went to a piece of crap like For Pete’s Sake to see Streisand. That’s what a star is.

r149, The Turning Point did three times the box office of For Pete's Sake.

Bacall was too old for the role. No one went to The Turning Point to see Shirl---they wanted Baryshnikov and the dancing.

R150, read R145 because you fail to understand this conversation.

R50, I liked Hot Spell

Another obscure one she did is Two Loves, with Laurence Harvey. It's hard to find

Can't we have ONE conversation about an ancient/dead actress without you bitches going full CUNT on each other?

Or is this just the grubby charm of DL? You can't visit Waffle House without getting sticky shoes, and you can't visit Datalounge without some elderly homosexual raging at you over a film that's as old as dirt.

Hot Spell

She isn't dead.

R154 = upset at losing argument

I don't know what to make of the idiocy here. "no one went to see The Turning Point for Bancroft and MacLaine." I suggest you look up what "B-list stars" are. You will see people listed such as Barbara Eden, Sue Ane Langdon, etc. No one would have gone to see a movie like The Turning Point if it starred Barbara Harris and Karen Black. They DID go because of MacLaine and Bancroft. MacLaine was one of my mom's favorite actresses and I know she went to it for that reason alone. Not to see ballet dancers.

Also idiotic: That an A-list star has to carry a film on their name alone. You're talking about superstars. Many A-list actors aren't superstars.

An example from the golden age of Hollywood is Myrna Loy. In her prime she was an A-list MGM star - who almost never carried a film on her own name alone. Janet Leigh almost never carried a film on her own name. Walter Pidgeon. There are numerous examples.

Lauren Bacall was another one. There was no such thing as a "Lauren Bacall film". But she was A-list, for years.

R158 - 160 = doesn’t understand the return button, instead makes three separate posts

R162 understands ad hominem attacks when all else fails, though.

R157 I'm neither party in the slapfight from above. I'm just the bystander who finds both sides of your entire argument ridiculous.

"Reta Shaw MADE The Pajama Game on Broadway!"

"How DARE you?!?! It was Janis Paige and Eddie Foy who made that show a hit! I should throw my B-52 in your hair!!!"

R164 Fuck off, Sylvia.

R164, no one believes you

Horrible cunt, I hope she is decapitated and then dies in a grease fire.

R167 = Jayne Mansfield and Linda Darnell

I think it's how one interprets the term A-list, as in they are bankable stars alone, or as in they are highly respected by the public and the industry and add a level of prestige to a projects name. I think the argument can be made for the latter with MacLaine and perhaps Bancroft even more so. Bancroft was cast in quite a few prestige projects in the 1980s, such as Agnes of God, 'Night, Mother, Garbo Talks (directed by Lumet), 84 Charing Cross Road (produced by her husband), Torch Song Trilogy. Obviously not all of these were critically or commercially successful but they were some of the most high profile roles being offered in the 1980s for actresses over 50 and she snagged more than her fair share. Which says something about the respect she had as an actress.

R166 So do that thingy trolls do on here to see who’s been posting what content. Block me. Unblock me. Whatever.

Or you can get on with your life, and quit proving me right about this site’s toxic need to pick constant arguments.

It keeps trying to continue the fight. Are you new to Datalounge? You’re over.

Bancroft was a star long before MacLaine. Also she earned her dues by toiling in TV and film supporting roles before going to Broadway to do Two for the Seesaw and The Miracle Worker.

[quote]Bancroft was a star long before MacLaine

I would disagree with that, r172. Shirley had an Oscar nomination in '58. I'd argue that her film resume was as good as Bancroft's starting with working with Hitchcock in '55. In '57, Anne was doing...The Girl in Black Stockings. She really needed the serious Broadway cred of Seesaw and Miracle Worker (and that Oscar) to push her to true star level.

Actually, no. Bancroft started in films earlier, around the time Shirley was starting on Broadway. But Shirley hit it big in movies about the same time that Anne hit it big on Broadway. And Anne wasn't really a movie star until a few years after Shirley.

Sorry, r173 beat me to it.

Bancroft broke through later than MacLaine, although she probably worked longer and certainly had a stage career (and Tonys) unlike MacLaine. While MacLaine got bigger parts after the Turning Point, Bancroft was in arguably more prestigious vehicles and played very different characters. Neither of them, though got really plum roles---US actresses a generation younger than them have been much luckier in terms of their career longevity; the Brits of their generation have been much luckier. MacLaine's best later parts were in ensembles or supporting roles. Her one star vehicle, "Guarding Tess" is pretty awful and predictable with her playing the same character she had played in most of her later films.

Anne Bancroft in 3D!

Ok I checked the years and The Trouble with Harry was 1955 where Hitchcock cast MacLaine in the leading role. Bancroft opened in Two for the Seesaw in 1958 and won her first Tony as the featured actress. But then Tony awards don't mean much to Hollywood. Bancroft said that despite her Oscar win for The Miracle Worker she only became an international film star with The Graduate.

Didn't Anne take some time off to raise her son?

"Gorilla at Large" looks like it was more fun than "the Trouble with Harry" (which was supposed to be a comedy).

R179 - that was in the 1970s. She wanted to do The Exorcist but Friedkin wouldn't wait for her to have her baby first.

Marilyn getting the main acting honors over Anne in '52...

'56 was a bad year for both Bancroft and MacLaine.

Bad year for Shirley? She played the female lead (albeit a supporting role) in the Best Picture of the Year.

R181 Her pregnancy had nothing to do with it. Burstyn has said it was down to her and Bancroft being cast in the film. Friedkin had decided to meet Bancroft one last time in some deli and let Burstyn know what he decided. He came back to Burstyn because he thought Anne looked bad when he met her. Burstyn told him well I look bad going to the deli too when I haven’t been made up. Friedkin told her these are the breaks, and the part was Ellen’s.

Bancroft was considered the more serious actress after The Miracle Worker - play and film.

Bancroft was in fact a star before MacLaine. Albeit a minor star. MacLaine was discovered in The Pajama Game as the understudy who went on for Carol Haney at the last minute, and was seen by producer Hal Wallis. Her whole career rests on that. Bancroft was already in the movies at that time. She played the female lead opposite David Wayne in Tonight We Sing (1953) (biography of Sol Hurok). She got star billing with Dan Dailey in The Kid From Left Field (1953). Though not always in B movies, she was a B level star. Shirley then made her movie debut in The Trouble With Harry (1955) and got an Oscar nomination for Some Came Running (1958). Bancroft raised her profile on Broadway and ended up winning an Oscar for The Miracle Worker. But anyway her career as a star pre-dates Shirley's by 2 or 3 years.

She's an amazing talent and a lousy mother. Her daughter's book was a revelation, the kind of juicy backstage story that's almost hard to believe. Sachi claims her mother gave her a hard time over an $800 loan ("What about interest?") for a used car so she could escape an abusive boyfriend, while sending $60K a month to the "government" to support her husband who was supposedly living in the Pleiades constellation working on top-secret missions. "The father you know is a clone." The book is filled with anecdotes that leave you shaking your head.

I have enjoyed a few of her films, but her daughter’s memoir left a bad taste in my mouth. Her theories on reincarnation are also stupid.

I read that memoir a long time ago. There was something about diamonds. Diamond earrings, maybe? Anyone know what I'm talking about? That's all I can remember. Shirley comes off as stingy and selfish.

In an uncharacteristic burst of generosity, Shirley gave Sachi a "spectacular" diamond necklace and told her daughter that if she were ever desperately short of money, she could sell it. Sachi was always stranded somewhere without money. One time, broke in Honolulu, she decided to visit her father who kept a suite at the Royal Hawaiian (courtesy of that $60K a month Shirley was sending). When she walked in on a gay orgy she was confused. ("Daddy pull that dick out of your mouth and give me a hug!")

[quote] though I’d take Connery off and put in Burt Reynolds (hated him).

R140 I wrote "etc." I guess I was including Burt in the etc..

Why would you take Connery off? He was in Diamonds Are Forever, Murder On The Orient Express, The Wind and the Lion, and The Man Who Would Be King, and Robin and Marian in the '70s. My point was just that the '70s was a male-dominated movie decade.

Yes, R184--she was terribly miscast and alludes to it wryly when looking back at her career.

Maybe I can clarify the MacLaine-Burstyn-Bancroft issue.

MacLaine is a movie star for wide appeal. Plain and simple. You go and see a "Shirley MacLaine movie" because you like her personality and the feisty characters she plays. She's been that way since The Trouble with Harry.

Bancroft was truly a fantastic actress. She appeared in more serious prestige films, such as The Miracle Worker and The Pumpkin Eater. But, Mel Brooks was the love of her life and she took time off to support him emotionally and raise a family after The Graduate (1967). Brooks credits Bancroft behind a lot of The Producers, Blazing Saddles, and Young Frankenstein. Ten years later, she returned in The Turning Point.

Between 1967 and 1977, Burstyn kind of "replaced" Bancroft after she got her break in The Last Picture Show. The Exorcist, Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore, Harry & Tonto, and Providence were all made while Bancroft was raising a family.

Burstyn's career was lackluster in the 1980's while Bancroft was back in prestige films like The Elephant Man, 84 Charring Cross Road, and Agnes of God. However, Bancroft got cancer and passed away too young in 2005. Burstyn got a career resurgence in 2000 in Requiem for a Dream and has been the Matriarchal tragic actress ever since.

R194, Burstyn’s performance in “Resurrection”(1980) was outstanding.

R195 Yes, but you get what I am saying.

Satchi is just homely, unfortunately. Bow wow.

My parents subscribed to LIFE Magazine and I can remember when this issue arrived in the mail when I was six years old.

Unlike Bancroft and Burstyn, Shirley was more of a personality than an actress. There's nothing wrong with that, it's just different. It doesn't means MacLaine wasn't a good actress with the right material. Truth is, her box office personality days were behind her by the 1970s.

Am I the only one who thought Shirley’s masturbation/orgasm scene in “Being There” was embarrassing?

her daughter’s memoir left a bad taste in my mouth.

You aint supposed to eat it, R189.

Wasn't she in two movies back to back that had the same plot? A Change of Seasons and Loving Couples?

Has anyone actually seen “Irma La Douce”?

Edie goes mad...

Sachi doesn't sound like she was a walk in the park and she got around to exotic places. Still, I believe the fundamentals. It figures that her self-involved parents found each other. It's too bad that she chose to reproduce and didn't understand what came with it.

[quote]and she got around to exotic places.

It's not like she had a choice, r205.

I can't believe Steve Parker took his young daughter into a gay bar where the waiters mixed drinks with their dicks. WTF was he thinking? I also can't for the life of me understand how STUPID Shirley was, sending him tons of money like she did so he could be a dirtbag and a whoremonger. And sleeping naked with Sachi. And Shirley pressuring her to lose her virginity?

If she is messed up, it's totally easy to understand why. To her credit, she comes across as sane and somewhat serene.

R203 - I tried Irma and as much as I like Shirley and Jack I gave up pretty quickly.

As a young gay I fell in love with "What A Way To Go." The clothes were amazing, she modeled them so well, and then there was Paul Newman. I was transported to heaven.

R203 I've seen Irma La Douce several times. I think it's the first movie I will think about when Shirley ascends to a passing comet. It's flawed Billy Wilder, not least where are the damned songs? - but it's charming and its comfort food.

It really does seem like Shirl and Steve teamed up to cripple the little girl they hawked to the media. Some of the revelations in her book were truly astounding.

From an old interview on heartbreak and motherhood:

'Maybe I wasn't involved enough to have my heart broken. My husband really was the love of my life. He died some time ago.' But didn't he run off with a lot of your money? 'Yes, but that was a good lesson. He put it into projects that he thought were worthwhile [headslap], but without asking.' Was that why you broke up? 'No. He was involved with another woman and I was all over the place with different men.'

In the past, MacLaine has said she regretted not spending enough time with her daughter. She's not feeling regretful about that today. She's feeling that she and Sachi 'went through a couple of lifetimes together and our relationship is more like friends anyway'. They went to live in Japan when Sachi was six. She didn't want her to grow up in Hollywood. There was a weird incident with a drunk nanny and kidnap threats, so she was sent to the International School in Tokyo. 'We lived in Shibuya, we all went there together. We were together every summer and a month at Christmas and a month at Easter. And in the early years in Japan I was a hands-on mother.'

It must have been hard to have Shirley MacLaine as your mother. She's just not particularly maternal, perhaps because her mother wasn't. She believes both she and her mother were male warriors in another life. She is curiously distant and curiously full on. She drinks you in and then seems to float off. She wants to know about my lovers. Have I felt that I've met them before in another life? Hasn't everyone? I imagine that she was always the person who was doted on rather than the person who doted.

Bitch is just fucking nuts

Irma la Douce is awful. It was the beginning of Wilder's decline. Shirl's true starring roles, which came soon after, like "John Goldfarb, Please Come Home" and "What a Way to Go" were critical and box office failures.

Don't forget...Bliss.

What a Way To Go = BOMBO

I thought What A Way To Go was horrible, but I do have a fondness for Woman Times 7, particularly the last episode.

Didn't Mel Brooks say he wanted to make Gorilla at Large 2?

He supposedly told Cameron Mitchell that it was his favorite film. He probably found it hilarious.

How did Annie not get nominated for this?

[quote] Between 1967 and 1977, Burstyn kind of "replaced" Bancroft after she got her break in The Last Picture Show. The Exorcist, Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore, Harry & Tonto, and Providence were all made while Bancroft was raising a family.

I don't remember that. In 1975 Bancroft was in The Prisoner Of Second Avenue with Jack Lemmon (which I saw at the time) and The Hindenburg (a bomb, but no one knew it was going to be a bomb). Not saying she was in a lot of movies, but she was in some.

Maybe I misunderstand you but how did Ellen Burstyn replace Bancroft? Yes, I guess Bancroft was wanted for The Exorcist, but she could never have played the parts Burstyn played in TLPS (the former town beauty?), Alice (which was offered to Shirley MacLaine, who turned it down and later said she regretted it), Harry & Tonto (Anne Bancroft as Art Carney's daughter??)...

Anne was the best thing in THE HINDENBURG.

R222, Love her billing . . .

Also Starring

Anne Bancroft as the Countess

She’s just not my type of actress. I can’t think of a single movie of hers I’d want to see twice. (Except for Terms of Endearment, and that’s for Debra Winger’s remarkable performance.) I never did see Being There, which is one of her more lauded movies.

I mean, Shirley MacLaine’s a professional, she’s dedicated. She’s just not my cup of tea. She was more striking when she got more bitter and vinegary as she aged.

Tell ‘em, R224! Btw, Being There belongs to Peter Sellers and Melvyn Douglas. You can dislike Shirley and still enjoy the movie.

Sachi said she would do a revival of night, mother with Shirley if her character decided killing her mother was a better option than suicide.

Shitley

Shirley was great in The Trouble With Harry, Some Came Running, The Apartment. Many of her early films. And Terms of Endearment. Didn't always play the same type. I haven't seen a lot of her more recent movies - can't stand looking at her now.

I also enjoy her in My Geisha and Gambit.

Her ex-husband lived in a flying saucer above Earth's orbit. He was from an alien world but preferred to live in Japan with his mistress which Shirl was happy to pay for.

Frank Langella said Anne Bancroft was an insufferable cunt, not in those words but yes.

Frank Langella is a well known insufferable cunt, R231.

R232, Any man who stuck it in Whoopi . . .

She was great in Mean Girls!

You don’t know the half of it, R233

One of the local stations showed Can-Can (1960) every once in a while when I was growing up.

Gigi it wasn't.

Gigi is CREEPY.

Shirley is so stupid. She squandered millions of dollars on her loser husband while he bullied and fondled their daughter. Dumb cunt.

Shirley's very good in most of her movies and really terrible in Can-Can but I still think the movie's a treat because of the beautiful Cole Porter songs and Louis Jourdan.

R238 I agree with your opinion of the songs and Jourdan.

I think she stayed on the A list in the way that Kate Hepburn did, but Bette Davis did NOT.

R237, how?

Hepburn finished up her career doing tv and low budget films. Not much different from Davis' last years. MacLaine has never done much television but seems to be ending up as less of a "star" than Hepburn or Davis.

Pedo-like, 242

Davis' last full film appearance was in The Whales of August. Hepburn's was yelling "fuck a duck" in a supporting role in the clunker Love Affair.

R245 Yelling? No.

Her birthday is Tuesday! 90! She's out on a limb.

[quote]MacLaine has never done much television

She's done her share, r243.

^ Shirley’s late in life nose job didn’t help her looks.

The Whales of August was a one-off in what was essentially two decade dip into tv movies (albeit high quality tv movies) and the occasional Disney film.

Hepburn's last two decades (after Rooster Cogburn) were much the same other than the one-off On Golden Pond: some (not all) high quality films for television but dreck like Olly Olly Oxen Free and Grace Quigley in the theaters.

[quote]and Grace Quigley

I don't know how drecky it was, r251, but it wasn't like Bette was starring opposite Nick Nolte at the time.

And yet, for all their mannered qualities Hepburn and Davis weren't simply delivering the same schtick in their later years as Maclaine.

She seemed to have a motherly relationship with Julia Roberts during Steel Magnolias and still loves her to this day. Strange she connects with another actor more than her blood daughter.

R145 I went to see "for Pete's Sake" for Michael Sarrazin.Barbra was an added bonus.

I love IRMA LE DUCE

I'm shocked by the recent candid photos of Shirley in which she actually looks every bit of 90 years on earth (and elsewhere). Seriously, it's nice to see a female movie star relax and just look her age.

Diismal, R252.

How the hell did Shirley get cast as the Indian Princess in one of the most expensive films ever made (in its time) Around the World in 80 Days? Seriously, why did Mike Todd cast her, and mind you, this was before she'd even been seen by the public onscreen. There were so many brunette exotic actresses to choose from, how/why was Shirley cast?

Rita Moreno was ROBBED!

R254, that’s because Shirley had no relationship with her OWN daughter. Movie/TV daughters are so much easier.

Good for Sachi for being able to forgive her parents for their mistreatment and neglect of her. I’m still resenting my dead father for things that he said and did to me when I was ten.

I think Shirl is about to move on to her next life.

Today is her birthday age 90. Happy birthday old girl!

These Old Broads is all you need to know about Shirleys' later career.

To be fair, it's as bad as Trog but better than Wicked Stepmother.

And for the record, Shirley has abandoned her new age/crystal/aliens dog and pony show. It seems it was all nonsense after all.

Shocking I know.

So, a really lousy and still unrepentant mother whos' career flamed out as most do.

Flip side, few actresses have been in the industry for 70 years and are still working. That's more longevity than Davis, Hepburn and all but a few of the greats. Shirley deserves kudos for that alone.

Several of her efforts after These Old Broads were a good deal better.

I don’t like her musicals - Sweet Charity needed a good hard slap - but I like pretty much everything else she does.

The only thing I liked about SWEET CHARITY was when her character got thrown into the water by her boyfriend.

I think the young Shirley of the 1950s was a true original, culminating in her role as Fran Kubelik in The Apartment. There hadn't really been a leading lady like her before, and about how many actresses can you say that?

Someone with a working class aura, cute but not terribly pretty, funny yet poignant, quirky and very empathetic. Perhaps Jean Arthur comes closest as a predecessor?

But for me, that unique aura didn't last long and maybe the hardening was inevitable as she aged and needed to toughen up for the more sophisticated cinema of the late 1960s. And when she tried to return to that earlier vulnerability as in Sweet Charity she could be quite tiresome and seem very out of step with the times (though, of course, that could be blamed on the character and the movie).

She seemed to go from ingenue to frump in record time.