Can Parents and Childless People Be Friends?

My best friend since seventh grade has two kids and we’re still just as close. I don’t have any and don’t really like doing kid centered things so we hang out when she needs grown up time. The key is having both friends actively nurturing the friendship and having a spouse that helps (and enjoys) taking the kids for a day. As the kids get older and more independent it’s easier. I think parents and childfree can get along just fine, provided you care about each other and stay committed to making it work.

As long as those who are parents never mention their children to me or bring them into my presence, sure. Also, showing me pictures of them would obviously be verboten.

Find out when Billy Crystal and Meg Ryan reunite in the madcap romcom ‘When Fertile met Sterile’.

As a late 30s childless homo with college friends who all have children, I've found friendships start to die once the kids get into early elementary school. School functions and extracurriculars take up a lot of time and they become closer to the other parents that their kids have play dates with. I like kids, like hanging out with my nieces and nephews and doing kid friendly stuff (and have said this to my friends) but found myself more and more shut out from my friends who would hang out as a group with their kids at the zoo or whatever.

I've always been pretty vocal that I'd love to do these things but am too afraid to ask why I never get invited. The husband of one of my best friends once told me that I would "never understand how life changing it is to have a kid" in another context and maybe that has something to do with it, idk. It kinda stung at the time. I’ve found myself getting closer with my childless gay friends and drifting apart from my college friends.

When my sister got pregnant I stopped talking to her. When my best friend got her child, I didn't vist her anymore. I found new friends.

The answer is no.

You sound pleasant R5.

R4 The irony of the husband’s statement is that many/most child free people DO understand how life changing having kids is, and that is precisely why they choose not to have them.

R4, I think sometimes parents don’t invite non-parents to kid-related things because they truly can’t believe someone would enjoy a kid-focused outing, be interested in sitting through a children’s concert, etc., if they don’t have a child in tow. It’s a shame that your friends don’t include you when you’ve told them you would like to join.

[quote] The key is having both friends actively nurturing the friendship and having a spouse that helps (and enjoys) taking the kids for a day.

R1, I'm assuming you're saying that you're friends with a woman who is part of a heterosexual couple. A spouse that "helps" and takes the kids for a whole day (wow) while your friend spends time with you? So, your friend is primarily responsible for child care and the husband just chips in, once in a while.

When my mother was widowed young, it was her single hood status that excluded her.

The parents of children have a lot of reasons why like the ones you're citing above R4, but the real reason is these couples fear an interloper "stealing" their spouse. They won't admit to it, but there's no other reason to exclude a single person who does understand what it's like to raise kids, like my mother, other than they find her a threat to their own relationship. Years later when one of those couples went through divorce, it became clear that she saw my mother dating again and had a "grass is greener" on the other side issue, and wanted to compete with my mother. Even though my mother was heartbroken and not competing with anyone.

Anyway, just my 2c on the issue. I think a lot of people don't dare admit it's about sex because it makes them and their relationship look bad ... but it's about sex. I’ve also had plenty of female friends not trust me (a gay male) around their supposedly straight husbands.

My high-school bestie is having a child soon and I certainly worry about losing them. Like R4, I'm open to doing child friendly activities but it would be nice to also do adult stuff sometimes?

I’m the one with kids and two of my long time friends are childless. For me the secret sauce has been not constantly mentioning my kids and still planning outings/activities with my friends that dont involve my kids

My best friend had a baby three years ago. We still are so close and I'm her kid’s fav guncle (gay uncle) :D We still do adult things when we plan for it!

I’m a dad. Sadly, it just sort of happens for all the reasons mentioned on this thread. The first couple of years, you’re just working so hard to keep the kid alive and safe, you don’t get much air yourself. Then suddenly your days (and especially your weekends) are bogged down with activities and play dates and extracurriculars. You keep picking up other parent friends along the way and it’s just more convenient to do things with them since the kids are also occupied. And then, as someone mentioned above, most of the time you assume your childless friends are often doing much more exciting things and wouldn’t ever want to join anyway.

R12 well you could have told her to tie her tubes. That would have solved your worries.

I’ve started seeing baby showers as friendship funerals.

This happened to me and it was honestly enraging, because those same friends were SUPER sensitive and demanding/insecure that I would drop them when they had their babies.

But no, after I brought them home-cooked meals and helped out while they were post partum, did most of the legwork finding baby (and then toddler) friendly brunch spots, the nicest parks, kid friendly activities etc...the kids get to grade school and then I get dropped in favor of the moms of the kid's friends. And I do mean DROPPED. Basically ghosted, and they all got really defensive when I called them on it and said some flavor of "what do you want me to say? Time is finite and this is easier and I'm not going to apologize for prioritizing my family". Zero compassion or understanding for me or the work I put in on my relationship. No willingness to get together even once a month. Just dropped.

One came crawling back after she divorced her husband and her mommy friends all cut her out for divorcing (which was weird because some of them were single moms, so I wonder if there's more to the story), but I told her to fuck off because friendships that are only important when SHE wants them are obviously not friendships.

another pedo thread OP?

I think childless men can remain friends with dads but it’s not the same for women. Motherhood swallows a woman whole. My sister has been swept away into a land of play dates, carpool, extracurriculars and Bluey/Trolls.

As a mother, some nights if I want to feel childless it's mind over matter. And the next thing you know, the party's started.

Having children is another kind of baggage. I don't want anyone with baggage. I have enough of my own.

R19 Please don’t assume that just because your psyche is compromised, everyone else is the same.

R8 This! There are so many people, especially straight people, who don’t realize how life altering having children can be.

They just think “BABY”. It’s like it’s only in their heads that they have to take care of a baby for a few years. They don’t think about chaotic 8 year olds and angry teenagers or even worse, clueless 20 year-olds

My old boss’ mother once said something similar to me. That children can bring things out that you never knew you had in you. And she didn’t really say it in a good way.

I made a whole slew of new straight friends in my 30s, people whose longtime friends had dumped them after the baby came. They wanted someone who could go out, catch a movie, hang out in a pub, etc.

It was similar to a time when a straight friend of mine asked me to join his pub trivia night because they needed "an English major," which was a nice way of saying they were all straight guys with sports and superhero knowledge.

Some parents become childless people.

Having kids makes some people act weird, but I think they were probably weird to begin with.

I had car trouble and I work with a woman who agreed to take me home after work (some of us were working until 9:00). At about 8:30 she started hinting that another person we work with (who I don't know as well) might not mind giving me a ride. "You told me you'd give me a ride." "I know but my kids go to bed a little after 9 and if I give you a ride it'll mean I'm going to be 10 minutes late and miss saying good night to them." Her kids (boys) are 15 and 13. Not little kids. I couldn't believe it. I got a little annoyed that I had to go find the other person and ask them if they'd give me a ride home, at the last minute. Another woman (who also has kids) had been listening and said to me: "You don't have kids. You don't know what it's like." Well I know that I usually do what I promised. Also I couldn't even imagine my mother when I was as old as that woman's kids, thinking she couldn't stay out after 9:15 when my dad was home with me.

These people make it hard to be friends with them.

Another friend, who ended up having three kids, was someone I used to visit on some Friday nights. His husband worked on those nights, and it was a chance for us to still hang out and talk. Then, she had her first kid. And the boy got to a certain age and she'd put him to bed upstairs and he'd scream for her. She said, "The doctor told me I can't go to him, I have to let him scream ." It was unbearable! Ha. I thought "I can't do this." I mean I think once every two or three weeks when I was visiting, she could have done something like put the kid to sleep on the sofa, until I went home. But no, she expected me to sit there and listen to her son scream for two or three hours. To me, this is why I can't be friends with married people.

*HER husband worked on those nights

Other people's kids can become a money pit, as well. I unexpectedly received a high school graduation announcement from the son of a long-distance friend. I ended up sending $. My friend said: "You didn't have to send that much." Yet, my friend was the one who put him (son) up to that, in the first place. It felt like a money grab and that's exactly what it was.

R29 Oh, yeah, definitely. To save money I started sending kids like that "a nice gift" rather than money. Of course they want money. But I was going broke.

Fag Hags disappear and drop homos when the party is over.

More at 11

The best is when they come crawling back when they’re aging, bloated alcoholics who are trapped in sexless marriages and their children hate them.

They use the children to project ego that they wouldn't dare to project for their own benefit, but which they think is "selfless" putting the family first. ARROGANCE of the baby makers is the main problem, and the fact that they all view it as an "accomplishment" that makes them better than you despite the fact their children's personalities are mostly beyond their ability to influence in a positive direction, makes it especially galling.

I don't think they're all alike. My folks never would have expected a guest to listen to their kid screaming. My mom couldn't stand people who did nothing but talk about their kids. She expected people to make conversation and talk about interesting things. She tried to do that. Just common courtesy.

I agree R34, a lot of the people mentioned in this thread sound like the very worst possible examples.

For some reason every other child is now on the spectrum and neuro-divergent. Maybe the baby making trend will end soon.

R35 Yes, but I do think they're getting worse. They just spend so much more time trying to live the kids' lives for them, and overparenting because they're wracked with guilt about not being stay-at-home parents.

I also had a friend who couldn't discipline her kid because she over-psychoanalyzed everything. Essentially making elaborate excuses for the behavior, that sounded like psychobabble. The kid is so fucked up as a result. I think I mentioned once or twice back then what she needed to do, but she always gave me the "You're not a parent, you don't get it" stuff. I had to distance myself.

That's child-free, not childless...

He's being honest mommy r7. Kids are like hemorrhoids, pain in the ass.

The problem is I’m at a point in my life where I just don’t want to acknowledge my friends’ kids. I have little to no desire to interact with them.

That doesn’t mean I don’t want to be friends with their parents anymore. But just that I’m quite firmly a friend they can only hang out with if they have a sitter. I prefer being the adult lifeline friend, the no kids allowed friend, the you dumped your kids on grandma for one weekend a year and now you want to party like a sixteen year old with their first stolen bottle of vodka friend.

I don’t want to sit at your house and listen to your crotchfruit scream and try to get a word in while your attention is otherwise occupied. I’ll be down at the bar with my single friends making dirty jokes, talking about who’s fucking who. When you want a night off from the drudgery of parenthood, come find me.

I’m sure your friends love it when you refer to their children as “crotchfruit,” R41.

They're not crotchfruit! They're crotchlings.

That’s right, R24. Which is the other thing about parenting: it’s hard to fathom how unending it is until you do it. Every other major project you take on before that sort of has an end date, but having a baby is just the beginning of a ceaseless roller coaster. It changes you.

I always figure that friends I knew as single will be different friends if/when the have kids. The more difficult thing to imagine is how could they not be. Even if they remain very much the same people (which isn't a given), the circumstances of their lives are changed in a big way - forever. Their priorities change and are largely shifted to new concerns of parenthood. It's presumed that they are simply not going to have the time for you they once had.

In some countries the change is less radical. In Southern Europe and you often start to meet the families and other circles of friends very soon. It's more acceptable to incorporate young children in adult activities. At 2 in the morning you can see parents pushing a stroller home from a bar where they spent the night with friends eating and drinking. They probably took along a family member who kept an eye on the kids, and the kids probably played with some strangers' kids from another table at the same place. If your friend has a kid, you can suggest a bar next to a children's play area. It's quite safe, above all, and everyone keeps an eye on the kid and the other parents keep tab of whose kid is whose. Or there's a family of grandparents and cousins and aunts and friends and neighbors or whoever who will watch your kid for an evening out -- they will know the parent/s need the break. It's a better place for raising kids in that it's easier to incorporate them in adult events and there is a bigger circle of family and friends on whom to draw than in the U.S. where social life and family life are more sharply segregated.

When the kids are teenagers and older maybe. I haven’t hit that point yet - my friends have little kids. I find we just don’t have a ton in common anymore - which is fine. You move on and seek out other connections. My best friend has a kid but we don’t really talk about him. We stay in touch daily but live in different states and text about news/celebrities/dumb funny stuff that happens during the day. There is no pressure to hang out in person, which might be an issue if we lived in the same city, and lead to resentment.

So maybe it’s more possible if the friend is long distance already and your connection tends to be regular texting and some calls.

Plenty of people don’t have children or have grown children and want to make friends. Just like the parents find new friends, it’s on the childfree people to find new friends as well. At least we can look for people we actually like to spend time with and not get stuck hanging out with the parents of the friends of our kids.

Breeders are convinced that queers want to kidnap their children and groom them into the LGBTQ+I+ cult. It's how we recruit new members.

A woman at work was showing someone a snapshot of her newborn grandson. I tried to get a look to be polite, but I realized she kept slyly tilting the photo away from me so I couldn't see.

I work with a woman who regularly rushes out of work and drives 2.5 to 3 hours to see her kids (one female, one male) play sports at two different universities (one in one direction, one in the opposite direction). Sometimes she can only catch the end of a game but will drive the 5 - 6 hours round trip just for that. Recently one of the kids has been taking a semester in Europe. She has been over there twice, to visit her. The kid is 20. To me, this is insane.

Back in the day, when people had 4 or 5 kids and the wife stayed at home while the dad worked, it was all sort of taken for granted that while your kids were important to you, and you made all the usual sacrifices, you still weren't going to be in their lives 24/7. And vice-versa. You weren't attached to each other by cell phones and there was some separateness. Now it starts at a very young age that there's very little separation.

And I have to add, everyone lauds this behavior and finds it very loving an committed. But sometimes to have to let go.

Not only are many parents now full-time parent forever, R48, but they serve double duty as BFFs, right up in each other's business all the day, every fucking day.

It's not the closeness that's so odd, it's the lack of any distance at all - the distance to make mistakes, to try new things, to have some distance from time to time.

It seems that many of the stories followed on DL of young people who simply disappear (go off-grid into hiding) are the same ones who talk to both of their parents umpteen times every day while away years at college.

Once at work a woman (in her 60s) got a call from, I think, Egypt or North Africa, from her son, who was mid-20s, because there was a big bug in his room. What the hell was she supposed to do about it?! She also told me one time that she continued to occasionally breast feed him until he was 5 years old.

The woman doesn't want the mans boys club around. She keeps them at arms length from him too.He eventually returns after many years of slavery and servitude.

[quote]For some reason every other child is now on the spectrum and neuro-divergent.

While simultaneously "very intelligent and loving."

R47 That’s disgusting and she must be a horrible person.

Yes, of course they can.

I treasure my friendships with friends and relatives who have children.

R47 That's what you get from dressing up as a drag queen for work.

If they persist in having crotch fruit, like animals, just drop them, they will only be trouble, you are out of the bubble now, just face it, you are thought of as lesser now.

Ultimately, I think it's nearly impossible to remain friends (parents and non-parents). The parent people do need to make an effort to maintain that friendship.

I don't have children and I have stopped trying to make the effort to spend time with friends who are parents. Lots of times, the kids are "along for the ride." I can't swear (not that I want to sear all the time). It's boring, a lot of the time.

In the last few years I've kept good friendships post-children. I knew both couples but knew the men better. In one case I knew the man a couple of years before he started seeing the now mother of their children. In the other I became friends with a couple well into the woman's pregnancy; she was enormous and more easily tired and cautious, her partner was enjoying the last of his time before the responsibilities of parenthood.

In both instances I see my friends infrequently now, and if we spend any length of time together, the children are almost always part of that. Both couples moved to the country so distance is a factor, too. But they make an effort both to come into the city and to invite friends out to their places. The aspect of planning time together instead of stumbling onto friends and letting things unfold more organically is new. Their priorities and availability are if course changed,vas well as the perspective of daily experience. But for all the change they are the same people just in different settings with different focus. They love seeing their friends and it's obvious they miss seeing them as often and as spontaneously as they used to do. It's also evident they are happy and love bring parents. They didn't ditch their old friends for circles of parents with kids of the same age, or mutually convenient friends in the same situation; they rely more on family and neighbors.

It's possible to keep good friendships active post-children, I think you just have to accept that the frequency and circumstances will be different.

One of my best friends is a single parent (divorced). Lives far away but I spent time with him and his kid several years ago. The kid was okay, not really a bad kid, but started to get more and more rude to me (he was 12). My friend, his dad, never said anything to him about it. Just let me try to deal with it. The appe of his eye. I couldn’t get away fast enough when the day was over.

Maybe 6 months later the friend asked it I wanted to go on a trip with him and his kid to California (Central Coast, where I'd never been, and wanted to go). I couldn’t do it. I would have gone with him alone but not with that kid. That would not have been a vacation.

If people would teach their kids some manners, or reprimand them when they’e behaving badly, I wouldn’t mind hanging out with them. But they ask a lot of you when they expect you to put up with their kids’ shit.

*apple of his eye

Yeah, my nephew has become rude, but it's too late. He's an adult, now. The parents never taught him good manners.

Did Danny Thomas take that picture?

I’m gobsmacked by the number of grown children living with their parents in my extended family. 2 in their mid thirties have never ever moved out. They work, the parents like it, but my God. Another pair have kids in mid twenties living with them, in and out if they get married then divorced. Another fundie pair have their 50+ year old recovering sons on and off, nobody thinks it’s weird.

R64 I can explain this. When you are a millennial, you grow up with great n64 and Playstation 2 adventures. You want to experience them for the rest of your life and you need money for that. Having your own apartment or a dumb child takes away your money and time you need for anime and video games. That's why they stay home. The boomer parents love it because as kids, they had boring lives and only feel happiness when their own children stay with them until they die.

R64, how do you think we get good murder stories? It can’t be the Prime or Fedex guy every time.

We need ugly family members crammed together for a good whodunit.

When I was growing up, in the house next door a mother and grown daughter lived together. The daughter was a teacher. My single uncle lived with my aunt and her husband and kids. Down the street, a single guy who was a truck driver lived with his widowed mom. This was years ago.

Do you have any idea how time consuming and exhausting it is trying to keep these things from killing themselves for a minimum of 18 years? Do you??

I can see the people with kids thinking that being a parent requires all of their time & $$ and they don't really have the bandwidth for much else, but I also think there is a...I don't know...sense of superiority that they feel you're not truly an adult unless you have kids, therefore, they don't have time for people who want to talk about movies & travel (or anything else besides what's on the Disney Channel) . I'm guessing those people are generally dull & lack imagination anyway and they just hide it behind parenthood.

For my part, I generally like kids so as long as the kid isn't a terror, I don't mind. I remember as a kid, my mom's friends never wanted us around (because they wanted to talk shit about us & our dads) & I remember being kind of hurt by that, so I think most kids want to feel that adults (who aren't their parents & legally required to care about them) are interested in talking to them & having them around

Sometimes parents can *become* childless people.

R68 I think most of us do. Which is why we don’t want them.

[quote] but I also think there is a...I don't know...sense of superiority that they feel you're not truly an adult unless you have kids, therefore, they don't have time for people who want to talk about movies & travel (or anything else besides what's on the Disney Channel) . I'm guessing those people are generally dull & lack imagination anyway and they just hide it behind parenthood.

20 years ago I worked with several women who had kids and they hardly ever mentioned them, unless it was something relevant to whatever was being talked about. Now, there are three or four who hardly talk about anything else.

I went through this with my friends about 20-25 years ago with my friends. Some friends are there for a season and some for a reason as the saying goes. I had one friend who went through two wives and two kids . Asked me to be the godfather of the 2nd one because I was the only one who didn't know his baby momma enough to hate her . That came in time .

Then when he finally woke up to her nonsense and they broke up , he told them he was going to marry me because the only thing we would fight about is the remote. The oldest one got mad , even though it was just a joke , and the father dropped me as a friend after almost 30 years ( since first week of high school!) . Was kinda devastating at first because he was like a brother to me but in time I moved on and my life only got infinitely better. Having the door slammed I your face only makes it easier to find a better place.

For me personally, no.

I don't enjoy children and rarely is the parent able to separate conversation and activities from their child/ren.

I’ve been struggling with this with my niece and her husband. Their son is now two and a half.

I’ve had a good relationship with my niece her whole life; I’ve known (and liked) her husband since they were college classmates twenty years ago.

But since their son was born, there is zero possibility of an adults-only get together. I adore the kid but when we’re all together it’s all about him and chasing him around the room and picking up the food and other stuff he drops or throws on the floor.

This generation of parents seems not to believe in babysitters. My niece and her husband do nothing I mean nothing without their child.

I feel like we’ve always had a nice relationship. I mean, they even asked me to officiate their wedding. But now whenever we get together it’s because I am the one to initiate. They don’t keep in touch. I try to accept things are different. My parents left me home all the time to go out and do adult stuff. Times change. I feel a bit sad.

R75 it seems a little different if the kid is related to you. It’s not some annoying frau friend with bratty offspring, it’s your family.

I would reframe your thinking if it’s a relative. It’s very annoying now while the kid is young and you’re chasing him around, but that is temporary and you don’t want to lose the connection with your niece because she can sense you don’t want to be around her kid. If you have to be the one to maintain the connection, so be it.

[quote] I’ve had a good relationship with my niece her whole life

Didn't you do all the same boring shit with your niece (when she was a small child) that you're now bored with (with your niece's child)?

If your niece's parents had used babysitters all the time, you wouldn't have gotten to know your niece.

Like R76 said, the child of your niece is also your relative.

That said, it all sounds boring.

Asked and answered in the seminal tv hit show Thirtysomething.

Mel Harris had a newborn and Polly Draper had a meltdown because they could no longer be friends. It’s all there on video for eternity.

No they are natural enemies and tend to tear each other apart! Everyone knows that.

Yes, of course.

I think they can be friends but it's extremely rare.

My newest best friend has two daughters but her youngest is college age. She has found a new "I don't have children!" life in me, the child free gay.

I share sentiments most with R41 in this thread, but I don't mind kids. It just can't be always with the kids, all of the time. I like to be that reprieve if you wanna go do those adult things.

I remind mothers all the time: "You were somebody before you were a mother. I don't think you should lose that person, it may help you later."

Not that I know it all but seriously, you're still some elements of the same woman you were before you became "Brindley's Mom."

Elder alert!

All of these "friends" who are now pre-occupied with their crotchfruit ... They will not come back 'round. They become ... grandparents!

I've seen this happen with my own eyes. It's a pathology.

Hey, R76 and R77. I appreciate your thoughtful comments. It’s true that it’s different because my niece and her child are my family. And more important because I don’t have much family left.

I’m not bored with the child. He’s sweet. He can be fun. But I wish we (me, my niece, her husband-who I sort of see as a nephew) could at least on rare occasion have adult time.

I think my not clearly expressed thought is that maybe I no longer mean much to them.

I’m actually happy to spend time with them - even in current circumstances - and when I (arrange to) visit they are warm and gracious. But if I don’t take charge of making that happen, it will not happen.

Crap, is that The Giant Baby That Destroyed Los Angeles?!

r83 Well, cherish the relationship even in its reduced time state, anyway. Because once you're feeble and in diapers, because you don't have your own children, your niece and grand-nephew are likely the ones who you will have to rely on for your care. Just be sure to be understanding that her and her husband's lack of time doesn't equate to a lack of love and care for you.

I have an aunt who never had children. And had she not fostered an almost "second mom" relationship with me, I probably wouldn't consider being her caregiver when she gets to that age later in life.

My own mother, however, is going straight to a nursing home. Don't ask. -_-

[quote] Because once you're feeble and in diapers, because you don't have your own children, your niece and grand-nephew are likely the ones who you will have to rely on for your care.

You really think that R75's niece is going to be changing his / her diapers? You have got to be kidding. Niece doesn't even have time, now. Dream on.

Either way, that's not a reason to "cherish a relationship."

There's something called LTCI or long-term care insurance.

[quote] I think my not clearly expressed thought is that maybe I no longer mean much to them.

R83, thanks for the honesty. Seriously.

This may not be what you want to hear, right now, but I think your niece and her husband will never "wake up" and realize what a great uncle you've been.

Sadly, they will probably reach out to you only on gift-giving occasions (for their child and future children to come).

I never wanted kids. I had a terrible childhood. In my culture children are to be seen and not heard. Spoken to and not to speak unless directed to do so. We grew up with parents who ruled with an iron fist. We didn’t get much affection or quarter in any respect. My brother and I were expected to perform and achieve without complaining. We were expected to do everything for ourselves we possibly could do. I live in the USA now and the way children are raised here they are treated like little kings and queens.The parents take orders from the children and are their servants.

[quote]Niece doesn't even have time, now.

Because she has a toddler r86. Toddlers don't stay toddlers forever, they become adults. Usually just in time for when the adults that cared for them when they were toddlers to return to a "toddler-like" helpless state and require their help.

And LTCI has plenty of limitations that render it almost useless. This country is horrible to seniors when they require that kind of care. My grandmother is in such a state right now. All of her children are dead. If it weren't for them leaving her as beneficiary to their life insurance policies, my cousins and I wouldn't be able to afford the LTC she's currently receiving because Medicare limits home-health coverage.

[quote] Because she has a toddler [R86]. Toddlers don't stay toddlers forever, they become adults.

And then the adult starts having children and your friend becomes a grandparent.

Having children doesn’t guarantee support in old age.

Especially if you’re white. Kids take off to the other side of the country to get away from you.

I know a lot of old ladies and all their kids live in different states lol.

I don’t hate children but I find them extremely dull.. There is not one single thing that involves childhood that I find interesting. My favorite uncle is childless and I help in his caregiving. I doubt I could do much for him if I had screaming smelly kids hanging off me.

[quote]Having children doesn’t guarantee support in old age.

Absolutely not. I'm always appalled and amazed at those who think a good reason to have children is that they can support you in old age. I wonder if they are all poor and/or those families where everyone is up the ass of everyone else, unable to do the simplest things without being in constant communication about everything. -- the ones who, if their arm were sliced off in an accident, would have to call their parent or their child before calling an ambulance.

[quote] Having children doesn’t guarantee support in old age.

[quote]Especially if you’re white.

r91 Hm. Maybe it's cultural, then. I'm Black and not only do we tend to take care of our seniors, we also prefer to keep them at home as long as possible. If someone puts their loved one in a nursing home, they tend to get talked down about in the community. It happened to both of my grandmothers with my great-grandmothers. Everyone had something to say when they caved and put them in nursing homes because they physically couldn't care for them, anymore and it was all they could afford. Those same people running their mouth never offered to help, though.

I guess every culture does things differently, but tongue-wagging, finger-pointing, and minding everyone else's business but yours is universal.

I can’t be anywhere near a binkie.