'Star Trek: Discovery' season 5

This makes me sad. I like this show.

R1 Me too

Five seasons is a decent run for a modern Trek show. I don't think we're ever going back to those seven seasons, 20+ episodes per season days.

I'm much more sad for Strange New Worlds because there are dark clouds gathering over that one, and the future of live-action Trek shows in general.

Canadian actor Kenneth Mitchell has died. He played a couple of Klingon characters on Discovery early on, then got diagnosed with ALS, appeared in human form in a wheelchair in a later season, and now the disease has claimed him.

Really happy to see T'Rina in the preview. She and Saru are adorable together.

Wilson Cruz in his white uniform is a thing of hotness.

How many times will Michael cry or whisper her lines?

[quote] there are dark clouds gathering over that one, and the future of live-action Trek shows in general.

Do you mean in regard to Paramount+'s future? I'm kinda optimistic. I firmly believe that the Star Trek franchise has a future even without P+, maybe even a better future. In theory they could sell Star Trek shows to each and every streamer. Some streamer may opt to buy multiple shows. At this point Paramount designed Star Trek shows per parameters fitting for P+ desired customer base. P+ doesn't have enough young subscriber? Let's design a Star Trek show just for them. Other streamers may ask for other/more flavors.

Trek has been declared dead many times before.

I love Discovery.

Just watched the premiere and fucking hell, the visuals are just INSANE. I've never seen anything like it in a Trek show before, totally get now why post-production on Discovery takes so long. Camerawork was outstanding as well, felt like I was right there in with the action. How awesome was Michael hurtling towards the bridge from space, the beaming straight onto it? Don't tell me you've never wanted to see that before.

Tilly's love interest, played by Gregory Calderone, is beautiful, but seems highly homosexual. I hope she doesn't get burned. Her new poodle hairstyle is atrocious.

Most exciting season mystery so far for me. A Data-like android! Picard! The Progenitors! Anyone else clock L'ak's face changing after he took off his helmet in the Romulan ship? What was that all about?

They gave my boy Linus brand new lizard ears, I love it. Hope he features more this season.

[quote]Wilson Cruz in his white uniform is a thing of hotness.

He lives in my neighborhood and I see him on Scruff from time to time.

One of these days, I’ll be drunk enough to hit him up.

The guys look decidedly less hot in the new uniforms this season. That huge slit in the front that keeps flapping all over the place as they walk is so unflattering. Why do they have to mess with the uniforms literally every single season, it's not cute anymore. Gersha Phillips left after the fourth season and it shows, the uniforms looks so busy all of a sudden.

Rhys of course remains hot regardless, his toosh looked so good in action mode.

It appears that they've decided to lean into what they perceive as the Picard S3 formula. Whether they hit it right or not - who knows.

The premise of the season is basically an expanded version of TNG The Chase (which was a good episode).

I'm really, really, really hoping that Salome Jens gets a cameo in a Progenitor hologram or something. THAT would be so very cool. If they don't do it, it's an opportunity missed, just like Picard missed out on having a cameo from her as the female changeling.

I wasn't as captivated by the second episode, it's basically a MacGuffin chase from the second season all over again. The CG landscape on the planet looked pretty iffy as well. Still, at least we'll get to see the Progenitors by the end, so that's exciting.

R14, I share your hope. Salome Jens has recent IMDB voice acting credits. Great to see she's still working!

I hate that it started with what has become my least favorite trope: The open on exciting scene then record scratch with a "4 hours ago" caption to a boring scene that eventually leads to us seeing the opening seen again. Bleh. So tired. So unimaginative. So over-done.

[quote]I'm really, really, really hoping that Salome Jens gets a cameo in a Progenitor hologram or something. THAT would be so very cool. If they don't do it, it's an opportunity missed, just like Picard missed out on having a cameo from her as the female changeling.

I should clarify that I mean NEW scenes with Jens vs. the clips from The Chase that they've already shown.

What species is Discovery's Number One? His ears are so peculiar.

r17 Yeah, I hate that as well. At this point, how does no one groan in the writers' room whenever that is suggested?

*Discovery's NEW Number One, obviously I wasn't asking about Saru.

[quote]What species is Discovery's Number One? His ears are so peculiar.

If you mean Captain Rayner - he's Kellerun who were introduced in DS9: Armageddon Game.

If you mean Saru (Doug Jones) - he's Kelpian.

I really like David Ajala - Book is sexy in an Idris Elba sort of way. He's one of the better new characters.

The other bridge officers never quite came together into interesting characters. Why they love Tilly is a mystery. And the Adira character was a waste of story time. They should have combined Tilly, Detmer, Rhys, and Owosekun into two characters and given them much more screen time.

The only time I can really stand Michael is in her scenes with Book. I love the two of the together, and I hate the whole "we're not together anymore" thing this season.

I loathe Tilly, so yeah the love she gets is a mystery to me.

The fact that I don't know any of the other Bridge character's names is a huge failing of this show. I mean I like the show, and have seen every episode, but I couldn't name the other characters on that Bridge (beyond Saru) if you promised me wads of cash for each one I got right. I'd end up with zero dollars.

Seriously, it's not like the characters are bad or don't have potential. They've just been so pushed to the fringes and most of them (except Saru) not really explored much at all.

All I've got is "Dark haired lesbian" and "Red head lesbian with tech in her head" and ... okay, after that I'm lost.

Hell, I can't even remember the names of the gay doctors very well (if I think really hard, I can come up with one or the other). And I hate them as a couple solely because I just can't stand that red-head dude from "Rent". HE CANNOT ACT. I hate his acting style and choices. He rubs me the wrong way (the actor, not the character).

All that said, I still like the show well enough, but I wish it were more memorable, with better, richer, deeper characters, and that it wasn't so damn serious & self-important.

I really tried to give DIS a chance but in the end I couldn't get past the truth that the writing is pure liquid shit. There's an opening episode in one of the seasons where Michael and her friend massacre dozens of mooks in a chase scene playing it up for comedy. That's not Star Trek. It's someone's mediocre sci-fi concept universe that cannibalised the Star Trek name because it had no soul to begin with.

r21 Thanks. Interesting, his ears seem closer to the Vorta than to the Kelleruns, hence my confusion.

Ranking Disco seasons: 2, 4, 3, 1

I'm hoping Season 5 becomes the new top season.

Also, I think I know why they love Tilly - apparently, the new Starfleet Academy show is set in the 32nd century which means she's probably one of the leads of that show if not the main character. They've been talking about that show for several years, so they've probably been pushing Tilly on Disco to set that up.

Yes, I just assumed all that cadet talk by Tilly is just a plug for the Starfleet Academy show. Which I'm lowkey looking forward to.

Star Trek 90210 sounds more like an attempt to get a younger audience into the franchise.

However, they won't do the one thing they'd need to do - hire exceptionally hot actors for the key roles. We won't see hot guys like Luke Perry or Jason Priestly or even DL favs Trevor Donovan and Matt Lanter. But, what they really need are some hot women to draw younger guys - there won't be any Seven of Nine catsuits.

The first two episodes were pretty good and filled with a lot of great action scenes. However, I found my attention waning a bit in the second. The premiere also didn't even attempt to not make Michael the center of attention. She goes on the away team mission, isn't impaired, lands on the two couriers' ship AND knocks it out of warp? Come on... (Is it even possible for someone to be outside a ship traveling faster than the speed of light in just a spacesuit and not get turned into Swiss cheese from the gravitational forces?)

Resurrecting the Progenitor story is a good move. "Next Gen" dropping that story so quickly despite it having great potential is one of the problems with non-serialized storytelling in the '90s. I get the feeling the season will end with Michael and the crew finding the Progenitor's technology, which is capable of doing amazing things that could benefit the galaxy, and deciding to destroy it for "moral" reasons.

The real headline to the season is Raynor. He's a great addition to the show and commanded every scene that featured him. His cynical, pragmatic approach is exactly the right counterpoint to Michael's constant crying and whispering that the show needs.

Can somebody help me out here please? They are looking for a McGuffin that leads them to the ancient technology that creates life? Did I get that right? And why is that such a big deal? I feel like I missed a crucial piece of the story.

[quote]Can somebody help me out here please? They are looking for a McGuffin that leads them to the ancient technology that creates life? Did I get that right? And why is that such a big deal? I feel like I missed a crucial piece of the story.

Have you seen the TNG episode The Chase?

The short version is that Picard and the Enterprise needed to chase down DNA fragments from multiple worlds which when combined produced a holographic message from the very first race EVER - the Progenitors. They evolved on their home planet millions of years before any other life in the galaxy. The became a space faring race and sought to find other life, but never found anyone else. They seeded life across the galaxy which explains why so many races have a vaguely humanoid body plan.

In order to complete the task, the Romulans teamed with Picard. The Romulan scientist whose book they were looking for before they downloaded the memory file of the synth android was among the Romulans who witnessed the final message from the Progrenitor.

Apparently, after that, the scientist continued searching for more about the Progenitors until he found a technology or a device that they used to seed life across the galaxy. He realized he needed to hide it, so created the various macguffins - map pieces - that they're now hunting. Once all the pieces are assembled, they think that it will lead them to the progenitor technology.

Thanks for getting me up to speed, r31.

[quote] Once all the pieces are assembled, they think that it will lead them to the progenitor technology.

Would that be so catastrophic? Let 'em have it. I mean the most impact the technology can have is creating more life, right?

I'd rather they took on the Iconians, but I can live with Progenitors as well.

[quote]Would that be so catastrophic? Let 'em have it. I mean the most impact the technology can have is creating more life, right?

As Spock noted when answering McCoy's question regarding what would happen if the Genesis device were introduced where life already existed, it would very likely destroy such life in favor of its new matrix...

Without knowing more, the Progenitor technology could be a galactic scale version of the Genesis device, given the number of planets with a vaguely humanoid body plan (based on the recording in The Chase, it could be inferred that they are responsible for all of that type of life).

^^^oh, another thing - who is to say that that is the only Progenitor tech he found or hid, not to mention that, setting aside the actual "life" tech, the ancillary technology such as delivery, targeting, and such could be analyzed and provide massive leaps in capabilities after studying it to anyone acquiring it.

Why didn't he just bury the Progenitor tech somewhere where it would stay hidden forever? Why leave out all these clues as to where to find it, if it's so dangerous?

[quote]Why didn't he just bury the Progenitor tech somewhere where it would stay hidden forever? Why leave out all these clues as to where to find it, if it's so dangerous?

The ending of the TNG episode has the Romulan hopeful that one day they would come together.

Also, as a scientist, destroying such valuable tech would be an anathema. He likely hoped that by the time his puzzle was solved, the galaxy would be a vastly different place where the various races would have come together as the Progenitors wanted. Remember, it appears he died suddenly before all his preparations had been completed.

If the Progenitors were so advanced... where are they now? Why did they all die out long ago?

[quote]If the Progenitors were so advanced... where are they now? Why did they all die out long ago?

Nothing lasts forever.

I've always thought that at some point some hack writer would eventually imply that the Progrenitors became the Q.

What's also possible is that they ascended in the same manner as the Organians or various other non-corporeal races like the Zetarians or TNG: The Survivors being Kevin.

^^^oh, another possibility is that they did something similar to what the Asgard did in Stargate and essentially brought about their own extinction.

Well, while you are at it connecting dots: Why did the TNG progenitor look like the female Founder from DS9? Coincident? I think not.

[quote]Well, while you are at it connecting dots: Why did the TNG progenitor look like the female Founder from DS9? Coincident? I think not.

For the exact same reason that Shran, Weyoun, and Brunt, FCA look the same, I'd guess.

^ Yes, let's weave a story around that, too.

r42 I looked up this question right after the episode and found a possible answer on the Daystrom Institute subreddit.

[quote]The Progenitor aliens in “The Chase” seeded many worlds, resulting in the common phenotype of aliens seen in Trek. One of those planets was the Changeling home world. The Changelings developed their ability to mimic, but retained an instinctual memory of their progenitor species. This is why various Changelings default to a similar bipedal form and facial structure.

[quote]The Female Changeling goes a step further, cultivating an appearance as close to the instinctual memory as possible. This would be psychologically helpful for a leader to appear more like a figure from the shared consciousness.

[quote]Alternatively, the Changelings are an ancient enough species that they encountered The Progenitors while they were still alive, and that contact became the template their collective memory uses for "generic solid".

All speculation of course, but still better than nothing.

[quote]Alternatively, the Changelings are an ancient enough species that they encountered The Progenitors while they were still alive, and that contact became the template their collective memory uses for "generic solid".

The recording from The Chase specifically states that the Progenitors did not encounter any other life, so they did not encounter the Changelings - although I suppose you could make an argument that the encounter occurred when the Changelings were in such a primordial state that the Progenitors did not classify them as sentient lifeforms, but the Changelings somehow "remembered" them.

Yes, that was one of the arguments put forth in that same discussion.

Episode 3 was a complete filler episode.

I guess they had to save money from all the effects in the first two episodes.

Yeah, the chase for the missing puzzle pieces is boring, I preferred Saru's Federation business.

It made me laugh when the new Number One (name?) gave everyone only twenty seconds to speak and Rhys still spoke more than in any other episode to date. Problem with this show in a nutshell, i.e. non-Michael POC characters are used mainly for set decoration.

I can already see them destroying the Progenitor tech in the end, was telegraphed when Stamets said that it can destroy life as much as create it. They should bring back the Xindi-Avians from extinction before they destroy it, though.

[quote]I can already see them destroying the Progenitor tech in the end, was telegraphed when Stamets said that it can destroy life as much as create it.

Stamets also specifically noted that it could bring back someone who died.

How he'd know that from scans of the tech is questionable. Such advanced technology would take years if not decades of study from teams of scientists and specialists to figure out. I mean, they spent years studying the "artifact" borg cube and hadn't even begun to unlock all its tech.

Side bar - I am hoping that they don't decide that the Progenitors created the Doomsday Machine and that its original purpose was something wholly different than a weapon.

[quote] Stamets also specifically noted that it could bring back someone who died.

That is probably the most trite plot device in Star Trek I can think of. They pretty much did that in every show at least once. Now do it one more time for Jadzia Dax and then never again. Just to annoy Rick Berman. Thank you!

Ha, I loved Jadzia. One of my favourite characters in the franchise. She had such a joie de vivre.

I haven’t seen episode 3 but I really enjoyed the first two. I’ve always enjoyed Discovery more than most. Maybe because I tend to sympathise with the underdog. It’s certainly not perfect but I did enjoy the first couple of seasons when everyone seemed to hate it.

I love Rayner. The show lost something when Michelle Yeoh’s character left. This ensemble really needs an absolute bastard, which we got with Lorca, then the Empress and now with Rayner. I’m here for it.

Yes, Rayner provides great contrast (juxtaposition, even) to the constant lovefest on that ship.

I also was a bigger fan than most of the first couple of seasons. But then came the third one and I noticed the writers doubling down on not giving any of the bridge crew any kind of character development whatsoever, and something snapped inside me. It's Michael's world, we're all just living in it. Whatever, we have SNW (for now) as a course-correction to that kind of approach. As for Discovery, I'm just enjoying the visuals and the ship porn and the action aspect of it.

Five seasons too many.

I think there was a conceptual error right from the start. They wanted less screen time for the captain and more for Michael (not planned as becoming captain) and other ranks. So while more main characters were spread throughout the entire ship, the action was still on the bridge where they had only one or two main characters. Inevitably there was a lot of extras on the bridge with hardly any purpose. In hindsight they could have created some sort of decentralized ship design where the bridge only requires two officers and no-one else. But that's 20/20.

Rayner is okay. Not as interesting as Lorca.

The actor reminds me of the actor they cast as Trip and T'Pol's son on Enterpise - who really looked like what an older version of their son might have looked.

Boring third episode. The Adira/Gray story is so dull; thankfully, it seems to be over (for now). Tilly is annoying as hell, too.

I don't really understand the "filler episode" and "boring" comments to be honest. There was nothing "filler" about it, it was directly connected to the main plot and furthered it. And it certainly wasn't dull.

Sigh.

Lower Decks is ending after its next season.

SNW did get an S4 confirmed.

Mixed bag.

[quote]Lower Decks is ending after its next season.

Well, that sucks. I wish Netflix would pick it up like they did Prodigy.

Also, no word on Legacy, yet. I've been putting all my eggs into the one basket that they haven't announced Legacy because they want all the focus on Discovery's final season. I'm hope that they'll make the Legacy announcement right after the Disco series finale.

I'm just hoping the Section 31 movie does well, because that might give them an opening to make more TV movies, which I'd be fine with. I think I remember reading that it came in under budget, so that's encouraging.

The reason it still happened was apparently that Michelle Yeoh, even with her post-EEAAO career boost, really wanted it to still get made.

I’m one of the few people that don’t want “Legacy” as it was pitched. I like Seven but don’t like Raffi, find Picard’s nepo son annoying and the LaForge daughters dull as dishwasher. The ship is ugly and barely visible it’s so dim. They’d have to overhaul the characters at the very least to interest me. Really not sure why fans salivate over the producer of that show.

[quote] Michelle Yeoh, even with her post-EEAAO career boost, really wanted it to still get made.

I was surprised about that. After that project being up in the air for so long, I would have understood if she had just showed Paramount the finger and moved on. (I wonder if The Brothers Sun was axed partially because she wanted to move on from that.)

[quote]I was surprised about that. After that project being up in the air for so long, I would have understood if she had just showed Paramount the finger and moved on. (I wonder if The Brothers Sun was axed partially because she wanted to move on from that.)

I think she really likes playing Philippa. If the movie really did come in under budget, it means she probably didn't make the kind of pay increase the Oscar might have entitled her to.

I was very disheartened when Section 31 changed from a series to a movie, actually. But maybe there's just not enough story to fill a series? I would think it would make a great basis for an episodic series, actually, but what do I know?

Yeesh. Episode four was pointless. Only six episodes left, and the season feels like it just started. An episode like this would be fine for "Next Gen" or "Voyager" since there would still be 20+ more episodes in the season, but with only 10 episodes to work with, Discovery needs to stop spinning its wheels.

I thought the latest ep was thoroughly enjoyable and quintessentially Trek right down to the copious technobabble.

[quote]Yeesh. Episode four was pointless. Only six episodes left, and the season feels like it just started. An episode like this would be fine for "Next Gen" or "Voyager" since there would still be 20+ more episodes in the season, but with only 10 episodes to work with, Discovery needs to stop spinning its wheels.

I moderately enjoyed it and liked seeing Airiam again - I wish they had done more with her. Her death in S2 was one of the better done story arcs. However, we've seen this already - the episode was essentially VOY S7E11: Shattered and S5E07: Relativity.

The shoutout to the Krenim was underwhelming and forced.

I liked the shoutout to the Kremin, personally. The episode was okay, but I also wished they had done more with Airiam. They basically fridged her back then because they needed a noble death and didn't want to sacrifice an actual human character.

Got angry when I saw animated Bryce – so NOW you give him some personality, two seasons after he's left the show? Oh, what could have been if they hadn't focused on Michael Sue and her endless speeches so much.

R26, thanks so much for your ranking of the seasons. I started watching season 1 but it didn’t really hook me. If I were to start watching the seasons out of order, would they still make sense? Or do I need to slog through season 1 to get to the better seasons?

Just watch them in order and have it on in the background in case you tune out. The first two are so much fun and then it gets all serious and earnest starting with the third one.

Making a prediction on the story arc. Mal and Book will try to use Progenitor’s tech to bring back their lost homeworld

[quote]Making a prediction on the story arc. Mal and Book will try to use Progenitor’s tech to bring back their lost homeworld

Redemption arc: Mal intends to do it, but it's Book who stops her. Listen to all the dialog from Book about making amends and doing the right thing.

ICYMI, the physique of Dr. Culber (Wilson Cruz). There was a joke about that in Episode 3 when the Trill took over Dr. Culber's body.

Cruz looks reasonably bulgy.

One day, I'll take leave of my senses and hit Wilson Cruz up on Scruff.

So now Rayner has Michael’s override code after she punched it in to his wrist tech during one of the time jumps. His comment earlier in the episode about his way of doing things being better makes me think he won’t use this info for good later on.

I've loved this series from the start and I am sorry to see it go, but I have to say how much I adore Saru and the President together. I'm glad they are giving them this storyline as Doug Jones has been remarkable in his psychical acting. The way he moves his hands while walking is just so graceful. I'm glad they are letting Saru find happiness.

Eve Harlow's character Moll is too similar to her character from "The Night Agent." In the latest episode, even the story beats involving Moll seemed similar to that other show.

I hate that they showed the Breen under the masks, and they turned out to be just another alien of the week. That Moll can live easily without the suit seems wrong. Sort of wrecks the mystique of the Breen.

Also, the Breen make Andorians look like denizens of tropical resorts. The suits are supposed to be more than for atmosphere, but also climate control due to their need for cold.

Looks like "Discovery" got to borrow the sets from "Strange New Worlds" for an episode.

I didn't like the Breen reveal, either. The Moll and Lak backstory was kind of dull and cliché.

The Breen weren’t just another alien of the week though. They are partly liquid, or unformed. Unless they force themselves to adopt a solid form as Lak did. This maybe helps explain why they allied themselves with the Founders and why the Founders favoured them over their other allies. Both non-solid but can assume solid form. This episode actually fleshed out the Breen whereas DS9, which I otherwise loved, kept pushing the mystery angle with no intention of ever revealing it. They actually just annoyed me on DS9 but here I was quite interested by them.