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"The Trump Effect" and Celebrity Suicides

I think that people have truly lost all hope.

People are starting to see that the bad guys are winning, and the good guys are losing. Trump can lie, cheat, and steal... and get away with it.

You can't tell me that Bourdain, having seen everything that he has seen in this world, would still end his life, if he thought that humanity still had some hope left in it. He has traveled all over the world, and met multitudes of people. Strangely, one of the most recent stories he did was on the Armenian genocide. He also did an interesting story on "Brexit," and the dark mood surrounding it. Now, that would depress anyone.

I have to admit I've often felt the same way. And it doesn't help, being an introvert with a tendency towards depression. Spade and Bourdain were both described as introverts.

Usually, we feel it first, because we're deep thinkers, and we internalize all of the bad stuff happening around us. Knowing that there's no solution to these problems, we start going to a darker and darker place.

What it comes down to, is that our situation isn't getting any better. Just look at the rise of Trump, and right-wing governments all around the world. The rich are getting richer, and the poor are getting poorer. Technology and social media are alienating people who aren't young, perfect, and have a milion friends and "likes." Depression rates are skyrocketing. And hate groups are flourishing.

There's no sense of community anymore, and for most people, a good home and a good paying job to support yourself, are out of reach. And even if you went to college, the debt you will carry for the next 30 years, is crushing.

So-called "experts" keep saying that "it gets better," but I think the reality is that most people just don't feel it.

I don't think this problem is going away, either.

by Anonymousreply 40June 8, 2018 8:12 PM

... You think Bourdain ... was one of the good guys?

by Anonymousreply 1June 8, 2018 4:09 PM

[quote] Trump can lie, cheat, and steal... and get away with it.

Correction: WE let him get away with it.

by Anonymousreply 2June 8, 2018 4:23 PM

Celebrities are the least impacted by Trump. They're rich and hold the kind of social power us nobodies will never achieve.

And let's not forget Bourdain scolded us evil libs for being too snobby to appreciate Trumpsters the way we're supposed to.

So let's dial back the melodrama here. Rich celebs aren't upset about Trump because he doesn't really upset their world.

by Anonymousreply 3June 8, 2018 4:39 PM

When Virginia Woolf committed suicide in 1941, newspapers speculated that it was induced by the stress of war. Her husband rejected this and responded that it was caused by mental illness.

On the other hand, journalists would do well to be circumspect about how they report self-harm, as there is a well-known phenomenon of copycat suicides.

by Anonymousreply 4June 8, 2018 4:41 PM

Get a Blog

by Anonymousreply 5June 8, 2018 4:44 PM

True, r4, but the incessant "talk to someone, call a hotline" stuff in the media isn't helpful, either. People don't want to admit that the troubled get abandoned (as it appears Kate Spade may have been) because people don't know how to care, or maybe just don't. And suicide hotlines are a joke sometimes, with volunteers who are untrained and only doing it for court ordered public service.

I'm not sure there's a real solution beyond increasing availability of legitimate help, but society doesn't seem interested in that, so.

by Anonymousreply 6June 8, 2018 4:46 PM

I’m a little younger than Kate or Anthony but suicide is never far from my thoughts in a “some day” kind of way. I completely understand the urge to leave here.

by Anonymousreply 7June 8, 2018 4:52 PM

Project much?

by Anonymousreply 8June 8, 2018 4:53 PM

CDC reports that the suicide rate is up 30% from 1999.

Obviously, this is an upward trend.

So what's the cause?

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 9June 8, 2018 4:57 PM

CDC: U.S. Suicide Rates Have Climbed Dramatically

Suicide rates have increased in nearly every state over the past two decades, and half of the states have seen suicide rates go up more than 30 percent.

Suicide is a major public health issue, accounting for nearly 45,000 deaths in 2016 alone. That is why the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta decided to take a comprehensive look at suicides from 1999 to 2016.

"Suicide in this country really is a problem that is impacted by so many factors. It's not just a mental health concern," says Deborah Stone, a behavioral scientist at the CDC and the lead author of the new study. "There are many different circumstances and factors that contribute to suicide. And so that's one of the things that this study really shows us. It points to the need for a comprehensive approach to prevention."

She and her colleagues collected data on suicides from every state. In addition, to better understand the circumstances surrounding suicide, they turned to more detailed information collected by 27 states on suicides that occurred in 2015.

The rise in suicide rates was highest in the central, northern region of the U.S., with North Dakota, for example, seeing a 57.6 percent increase since 1999. Nevada was the only state that saw no increase, and Delaware saw the smallest increase which was 5.9 percent.

Guns were the most common method used for suicide, accounting for almost half of the people who died.

Often, the suicide seemed to happen without warning: 54 percent of the people who killed themselves didn't have a previously known mental health issue. "Instead, these folks were suffering from other issues, such as relationship problems, substance misuse, physical health problems, job or financial problems, and recent crises or things that were coming up in their lives that they were anticipating," says Stone.

Researchers and advocacy groups who work to prevent suicide say the report shows that much more needs to be done to tackle this growing problem.

"None of this is surprising information, which is not to trivialize its importance. I think it captures a lot of trends that we've been becoming more and more aware of over recent years," says psychologist Michael Anestis at the University of Southern Mississippi, who researches suicide and is the author of Guns and Suicide: An American Epidemic.

He thinks the general public commonly pictures someone who had been getting treatment for a long period before killing themselves, like fashion designer Kate Spade, who died this week, but that's often not the case.

That means any public health effort to reduce suicides can't solely focus on those who have reached out for help. It has to be paired with measures that would make suicidal people less likely to die even if they never went to see a doctor.

The CDC report cites several different approaches, such as working to stabilize housing and teaching coping and problem-solving skills early in life.

The report also cites the need to reduce "access to lethal means" but without explicitly discussing firearms or controversial issues such as gun control legislation. Asked whether that was a deliberate omission, because of the political climate surrounding gun control, Stone said that suicide rates have been increasing across all methods.

"So it's not just about firearms, it's also about other methods of suicide such as hanging, suffocation, poisoning and the like," she said. "We are concerned with all aspects of suicide prevention, including access to lethal means, and so we do include that in a comprehensive approach to suicide prevention."

But Anestis believes that it's important to not beat around the bush when it comes to guns and to talk about the importance of things like setting waiting periods for purchase, and storing guns locked and unloaded.

by Anonymousreply 10June 8, 2018 5:00 PM

"American suicide is predominantly a firearm issue. Anytime we want to resolve something that involves firearms, we've need to talk about firearms explicitly," he says. "The conversation about firearms and suicide doesn't have to be a debate about the Second Amendment. It could be a debate about where can we find some common ground that doesn't simply involve only talking about people with mental illnesses, because as this paper shows, that's not going to get the job done."

Research shows that the decision to attempt suicide is often made quickly, in an impulsive way, says Robert Gebbia, the head of the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention.

"You may be thinking about it over time, but that moment when you actually make an attempt is a very short window," he explains. "If you could make it harder to make that attempt by not having access to the means, often what happens is the feelings will pass, it gives people time for someone to intervene and get them help, so that is a really important preventative step that can be done. And there's good research to support that."

Suicide researchers already know a lot of the information in this new report, says Gebbia, "but the public doesn't. And so a report like this really draws attention to the fact that we need to do a whole lot more to prevent suicide, to save lives."

He points out, for example, that the nation currently has no federally funded suicide prevention program for adults. "There are some for youth, but they're very, very tiny," says Gebbia. "We can't expect a major public health problem like this to be addressed unless we see the investment."

by Anonymousreply 11June 8, 2018 5:00 PM

Over-determined claptrap.

by Anonymousreply 12June 8, 2018 5:04 PM

Bourdain was a Trumpster.

People kill themselves everyday. Stop creating an epidemic because two celebs offed themselves.

by Anonymousreply 13June 8, 2018 5:13 PM

Social media is largely behind this.

People are constantly barraged with the message that their lives are inadequate compared to others.

by Anonymousreply 14June 8, 2018 5:20 PM

Alcohol Kate Spade and junkie Anthony Bourdain “deep thinkers?” At this rate, kindly, generous “health advocates” Gwyneth Paltrow and Trudy Styler will be next...

by Anonymousreply 15June 8, 2018 5:26 PM

R6 - you are, at best, only partially informed.

[quote]with volunteers who are untrained and only doing it for court ordered public service.

completely inaccurate. No certified suicide hotline uses people doing it for court-ordered reasons. I will agree with you, however that many people who are impulsive about finally making the choice to commit suicide have already made up their mind, and no amount of counseling will change their mind.

Lastly, in the large city where I am, there is a giant bridge, quite famous for suicides. There are numerous phones along that bridge, and rarely does someone who call that phone, end up committing suicide. They are talked out of it.

Again - problem is - many people just won't call or reach out, sadly.

by Anonymousreply 16June 8, 2018 5:43 PM

I do believe that if you take the long view, things are getting better. Take a look.....

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 17June 8, 2018 5:48 PM

R17, I just got the audiobook of Enlightenment Now. Great discussion with him here.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 18June 8, 2018 5:51 PM

For those truly interested, read Thomas Joiner's Why People Die By Suicide.

His basic thesis is that death by suicide is difficult, and that people have to acquire the ability to kill themselves. Most people who die by suicide have been exposed to prolonged physical pain in one form or another: physical abuse, combat, tattoos/body modification, self-mutilation, drug addiction. Another variable is called "thwarted belongingness" -- the feeling of profound isolation, not belonging to any group, etc. People who don't feel like they belong feel like a burden on their friends, family, society, and feeling like a burden is a powerful precursor to suicide. ( By the way, at times of national tragedy, suicide rates drop because there is a national "feeling of togetherness.")

The number of people who die by suicide is relatively small because the desire for suicide must coincide with the ability to commit suicide before someone can actually kill themselves, and this happens in a small number of the population.

by Anonymousreply 19June 8, 2018 5:52 PM

Depression can be so severe that it causes physical pain.

I've experienced it. If you haven't, it's hard to conceive of.

It's unrelenting and can get to be unbearable. Some people kill themselves to end that suffering.

by Anonymousreply 20June 8, 2018 6:03 PM

[quote] Bourdain was a Trumpster.

Bourdain was anything BUT a "Trumpster."

by Anonymousreply 21June 8, 2018 6:33 PM

[quote] The number of people who die by suicide is relatively small because the desire for suicide must coincide with the ability to commit suicide before someone can actually kill themselves

This is the most confounding part.

He honestly didn't seem the type, despite what everybody says about him.

The guy self-admittedly had a perfect life. He said it many times on his show, most notably sitting in the French countryside with Eric Ripert, sipping wine and eating cheese and fruits.

by Anonymousreply 22June 8, 2018 6:35 PM

[quote] Bourdain was anything BUT a "Trumpster."

You may want to read what he said about Democrats After Trump's win.

by Anonymousreply 23June 8, 2018 6:37 PM

OP = white Western privilege. The last "book" he read was In Touch magazine.

by Anonymousreply 24June 8, 2018 6:38 PM

What the hell is someone on a suicide hotline going to say that will end my misery? At best they'll delay the end by a day. Maybe a week.

by Anonymousreply 25June 8, 2018 6:47 PM

This administration is definitely adding to the depression and misery of a lot of good people. Not to mention finding out that so many friends, neighbours and relatives are racist, homophobic Trump loving twats. What's not depressing about that?

by Anonymousreply 26June 8, 2018 6:50 PM

According to Joiner and others, r25, most acute suicidal crises are something like 48-72 hours. During that window, people are most likely to carry out the act. If they can make it through, they usually live.

I've read that the suicidal mind becomes extraordinary focused on a single method of suicide, and if that single method isn't available, they won't try another way. Maybe people have crossed the Bay State Bridge on the way to jump off the Golden Gate Bridge,. This is one argument for the net that's being constructed at the GGB. People jump from the bridge and land on the net, which is painful. But it kinda snaps them back to reality. As Joiner says, suicidal thinking is similar to the magical thinking of schizophrenics and children.

by Anonymousreply 27June 8, 2018 6:52 PM

*Oakland Bay Bridge

by Anonymousreply 28June 8, 2018 6:53 PM

*extraordinarily

by Anonymousreply 29June 8, 2018 6:54 PM

*Many people

(Damn my lack of pre-post proofreading abilities)

by Anonymousreply 30June 8, 2018 6:55 PM

Just because Bourdain criticized Democrats after the election doesn't make him a Trumpster. Michael Moore said similar things and is far from a Trumpster. I think Bourdain felt some level of rich, white man guilt. In his social life he was probably surrounded by the wealthy, hypocritical liberals who are not the best representatives of the Democratic party. I think he probably abhorred Trump, but had some level of misguided sympathy for the poor white Deplorables.

by Anonymousreply 31June 8, 2018 7:04 PM

Methinks Bourdain was the victim of a #metoo blackmail.

by Anonymousreply 32June 8, 2018 7:10 PM

[quote]Correction: WE let him get away with it.

[quote]—Democratic Party

I'm pissed off at Democrats about the 2016 election, so I vow never to vote for them, and Trump is all their fault.

by Anonymousreply 33June 8, 2018 7:14 PM

[quote] Bourdain felt some level of rich, white man guilt

He absolutely did. Watch his "Parts Unknown: Las Vegas." He comes right out and says it.

Caesar's Palace gave him a luxury suite, where he had a private butler and the most exquisite menu.

He was sharing it with a friend, and he kept going on and on about how he should feel guilty. The friend kept asking why, and he said, "I don't know." Then the friend said, "I think you're feeling guilty about NOT feeling guilty," and Bourdain replied, "that's exactly right."

It was interesting to watch.

I guess, given all of the extreme hardship and poverty around the world, and Bourdain being able to witness it all first hand, it must have fucked with his head.

You KNOW that people are suffering and dying all around the world, that they barely have enough to eat, and have no money to live and survive, and yet here he is, living this extravagant lifestyle, being jetted all around the world, being put up in luxury hotels, and given the first class treatment every where you go.

It's a very extreme and weird contrast, that surely must fuck with a person's head. Especially a depressed, former addict.

by Anonymousreply 34June 8, 2018 7:15 PM

magical thinking of schizophrenics and children and many, many so-called "adults" *

by Anonymousreply 35June 8, 2018 7:23 PM

R13, I saw you on the other Bourdain thread your "He was a Trumpster" bullshit. The hell he was. WTF is wrong with you?

by Anonymousreply 36June 8, 2018 7:35 PM

There’s a lot of negativity as a rule right now and it’s seeping into everything. It’s affecting people. Mental illness and depression get affected easier. Trump’s evil, hatred and lies are going unchecked and increasing - things are going to get worse.

by Anonymousreply 37June 8, 2018 7:46 PM

Absolutely, R37.

Just look at what's happening on this board.

Some of the vile racist, misogynist, and even homophobic hatred being spewed here, is depressing enough.

It's like Trump's election unleashed this waterfall of evil and negativity.

I have never seen anything like this in my entire life. And the ones doing it, really seem to enjoy it. They actually get off on it.

by Anonymousreply 38June 8, 2018 7:50 PM

Well, I am comforted by the relative ease of hanging by doorknob. The world is going backwards in civilization.

by Anonymousreply 39June 8, 2018 7:55 PM

Suicide is primarily caused by hopelessness.

And there are a lot of major, fundamental things in our society that make life seem hopeless right now.

by Anonymousreply 40June 8, 2018 8:12 PM
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